2014-10-30T00:00:56Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T00:01:05Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:03:34Z discophoros quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2014-10-30T00:04:02Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:05:26Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:06:08Z TDog joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:07:23Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:08:47Z kirin` joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:11:08Z bb010g joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:14:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:18:24Z justinmburrous quit
2014-10-30T00:21:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:23:56Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:26:42Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T00:27:00Z zRecursive joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:31:29Z slyrus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T00:31:50Z slyrus joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:35:56Z nha_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:38:40Z nha quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:39:56Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:41:17Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:41:29Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:44:00Z TDog joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:45:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:49:36Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:50:16Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:52:38Z nha_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T00:52:59Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T00:57:48Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:00:10Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T01:01:16Z resttime quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T01:01:36Z resttime joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:02:17Z frkout quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T01:02:44Z frkout joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:06:47Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:06:57Z pavelpenev quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T01:06:58Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:07:21Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:08:39Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:08:39Z sivoais quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:09:36Z Riviera quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:09:40Z slyrus__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:10:03Z resttime: is there any library for OpenCL?
2014-10-30T01:10:50Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:12:07Z gko quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:12:54Z zRecursive: I just got "warning: implicit declaration of function 'strcasestr' is invalid in C99", then what is the standard candidate for strcasestr ?
2014-10-30T01:14:14Z gko joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:15:11Z stassats: wrong channel
2014-10-30T01:16:35Z zRecursive: stassats: no, many lisper knows C very well :)
2014-10-30T01:17:09Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:17:36Z stassats: even if that were true, that doesn't make it any more appropriate
2014-10-30T01:18:44Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:18:51Z linux_dream: hello programmers
2014-10-30T01:19:22Z linux_dream: I am not a programmer, but just interested somehow in lisp.  I have seen a code in wikipedia that solves the birthday's paradox but I don't understand what the code is doing
2014-10-30T01:20:03Z linux_dream: here's the code: http://pastebin.com/sb3RvDzA   (only 8 lines of code)
2014-10-30T01:20:21Z linux_dream: can someone please help me to understand it?
2014-10-30T01:20:44Z stassats: sure, first, learn lisp
2014-10-30T01:20:45Z linux_dream: I understand the 1st line
2014-10-30T01:20:55Z Bike: do you understand the arithmetic?
2014-10-30T01:20:59Z linux_dream: yes
2014-10-30T01:21:09Z Bike: do you understand recursion?
2014-10-30T01:21:16Z stassats: what's the point of understanding that code without learning lisp?
2014-10-30T01:21:33Z linux_dream: the point is to learn lisp this way
2014-10-30T01:21:40Z rszeno: understanding the algo, :)
2014-10-30T01:21:44Z linux_dream: I do not know what recursion is
2014-10-30T01:22:11Z Riviera joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:22:30Z stassats: linux_dream: that's not how you learn, though
2014-10-30T01:22:48Z linux_dream: it seems like it's redifining the new probability at each step until it reaches 0.5 or so
2014-10-30T01:22:49Z stassats: getting random snippets of code isn't going to lead anywhere
2014-10-30T01:23:14Z rszeno: linux_dream, yes you are right
2014-10-30T01:23:29Z stassats: minion: please linux_dream about gentle
2014-10-30T01:23:30Z minion: does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you?
2014-10-30T01:23:35Z stassats: minion: please tell linux_dream about gentle
2014-10-30T01:23:35Z minion: linux_dream: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2014-10-30T01:26:02Z kushal joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:26:12Z nyef: minion: advice on strategy?
2014-10-30T01:26:12Z minion: #11952: In my experience that is a bad strategy, because the people who ask such questions are the ones who paste the answer into their program without understanding it and then complain that it `does not work'.
2014-10-30T01:26:36Z xyjprc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:26:56Z linux_dream: thank you guys
2014-10-30T01:27:48Z gabriel_laddel quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:30:41Z zbigniew_ is now known as zbigniew
2014-10-30T01:31:00Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:31:06Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:31:11Z swflint_away joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:31:35Z swflint_away is now known as swflint
2014-10-30T01:31:39Z sivoais joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:34:24Z InvalidCo: hrm
2014-10-30T01:34:33Z InvalidCo: I think I've just found another bug in xft
2014-10-30T01:35:12Z InvalidCo: if you resize a x window after drawing text with xft in it, all further text-drawing is not effective
2014-10-30T01:35:30Z InvalidCo: s/xft/clx-truetype/
2014-10-30T01:35:40Z InvalidCo: guess I'll have to reproduce this in clean conditions
2014-10-30T01:36:27Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:36:37Z InvalidCo: or maybe clx-truetype caches the images it uses to render
2014-10-30T01:36:48Z nyef: Heh. I'm reminded of when using the CLX GLX would cause the entire input system to lock up or crash after doing any rendering at all.
2014-10-30T01:37:05Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:37:24Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T01:37:40Z nyef: Well, not the entire input system. Other apps work fine, but no events get through to CLX.
2014-10-30T01:37:44Z InvalidCo: christ
2014-10-30T01:37:51Z InvalidCo: that's not an issue anymore, is it?
2014-10-30T01:37:57Z nyef: No, it's not.
2014-10-30T01:38:13Z InvalidCo: that's great
2014-10-30T01:38:15Z nyef: On the other hand, nobody to almost nobody uses the CLX GLX.
2014-10-30T01:38:19Z jleija joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:38:30Z InvalidCo: I like feeling *special*
2014-10-30T01:42:00Z InvalidCo: yyup
2014-10-30T01:42:15Z InvalidCo: get-drawable-picture seems a good suspect
2014-10-30T01:42:21Z InvalidCo: ;;; Caching X11 objects
2014-10-30T01:43:12Z huza joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:44:03Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:44:34Z linux_dream: I've started reading the book on lisp, seems a good one!
2014-10-30T01:44:34Z nyef: ... But why would a ConfigureNotify cause text rendering to stop working?
2014-10-30T01:45:07Z nyef: Unless it's actually the exact same cause, screwing up the request sequence counter by sending a raw request over the low-level buffer functions?
2014-10-30T01:45:09Z InvalidCo: nyef: if I am guessing correctly, xft uses xrender to create some kind of an intermediary picture
2014-10-30T01:45:21Z InvalidCo: and that intermediary picture is not resized
2014-10-30T01:45:26Z InvalidCo: and then some magic exception happens
2014-10-30T01:45:41Z nyef: Ah, okay, xrender is involved. I don't know anything about xrender except that it's poorly documented or undocumented magic.
2014-10-30T01:45:42Z InvalidCo: and I think xft does the php things
2014-10-30T01:45:56Z nyef: ... "the php things"?
2014-10-30T01:46:05Z InvalidCo: because it didn't report errors when I accidentally supplied it with non-integer x/y values
2014-10-30T01:46:11Z InvalidCo: just silently did not render anything
2014-10-30T01:46:12Z linux_dream: hmm I cannot reproduce what the book states...
2014-10-30T01:46:19Z InvalidCo: nyef: error_reporting(0)
2014-10-30T01:46:57Z nyef: Not getting the reference, but okay.
2014-10-30T01:47:03Z InvalidCo: basically turns off all the warnings and errors and such
2014-10-30T01:47:21Z InvalidCo: used because otherwise the user sees all the ugly errors when your databases don't work
2014-10-30T01:47:23Z linux_dream: if I enter 2 NUMBERP    , I should get "T"
2014-10-30T01:47:26Z InvalidCo: then they often get a blank page
2014-10-30T01:47:59Z InvalidCo: then they know that they shouldn't have tried to order pizza with their address of ' union drop tables where 1=1 --
2014-10-30T01:48:25Z rszeno: linux_dream, correct syntax is: (numberp 2)
2014-10-30T01:48:27Z linux_dream: here's my output... : http://pastebin.com/zupiKXb7
2014-10-30T01:48:28Z nyef: ... bobby tables?
2014-10-30T01:48:36Z InvalidCo: nyef: yes
2014-10-30T01:48:41Z linux_dream: ah ok thanks rszena
2014-10-30T01:51:11Z Hache_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T01:51:36Z InvalidCo: whoops
2014-10-30T01:51:51Z InvalidCo: I accidentally confused alexandria:removef with the getf mess
2014-10-30T01:52:42Z InvalidCo: yep
2014-10-30T01:52:44Z InvalidCo: it's working now
2014-10-30T01:52:50Z Zag joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:53:06Z InvalidCo: in the resize event handler (basically configurenotify)
2014-10-30T01:53:23Z zRecursive: "alexandria" is indeed an error prone package name :)
2014-10-30T01:53:33Z InvalidCo: (setf (getf (xlib:drawable-plist drawable) :ttf-surface) nil)
2014-10-30T01:53:39Z InvalidCo: same for :ttf-pen and you're set
2014-10-30T01:54:02Z InvalidCo: guess I should raise another issue for this
2014-10-30T01:54:19Z InvalidCo: there's probably some cool way of resizing/reassigning these xlib-render-pictures
2014-10-30T01:58:15Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T01:59:06Z InvalidCo: well
2014-10-30T01:59:10Z InvalidCo: I submitted the issue
2014-10-30T01:59:10Z nyef: zRecursive: Clearly it should just be burned to the ground.
2014-10-30T01:59:20Z InvalidCo: then again, the author has not responded to the other issue I posted
2014-10-30T01:59:45Z InvalidCo: at least if someone else actually uses this library, there's a small chance they'll find my fix-around
2014-10-30T02:00:53Z zRecursive: nyef: "burned to the ground" means what ?
2014-10-30T02:00:53Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:01:21Z nyef: zRecursive: Do you remember what happened to the ORIGINAL library of Alexandria?
2014-10-30T02:01:38Z zRecursive: no
2014-10-30T02:01:55Z InvalidCo: I admit, I wouldn't have gotten that reference either if I hadn't read Don Rosa's comics
2014-10-30T02:02:03Z InvalidCo: :)
2014-10-30T02:02:34Z nyef: The two of you are scaring me.
2014-10-30T02:02:50Z InvalidCo: what
2014-10-30T02:02:58Z zRecursive: nyef: In fact, i use alexandria little
2014-10-30T02:03:22Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:03:29Z nyef: Not knowing such a critical piece of library history.
2014-10-30T02:03:31Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:03:37Z nyef: Or only knowing it through the most tenuous of links.
2014-10-30T02:04:15Z InvalidCo: I'm not really that big on libraries
2014-10-30T02:04:18Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-10-30T02:04:25Z nyef: ... or history, it sounds like.
2014-10-30T02:04:31Z InvalidCo: well yeah, that too
2014-10-30T02:05:02Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:05:24Z InvalidCo: I am really bad with remembering years and dates
2014-10-30T02:06:35Z InvalidCo: but, relevance of knowledge is both fleeting and relative
2014-10-30T02:10:07Z Zhivago: nyef: It became highly optimized for certain kinds of task.
2014-10-30T02:11:04Z nyef: ... the production of heat?
2014-10-30T02:11:43Z InvalidCo: ... are you referencing ... fire? ...
2014-10-30T02:11:45Z Zhivago: I was thinking of soap.
2014-10-30T02:12:23Z harish joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:12:33Z TDog joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:13:39Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T02:14:20Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-10-30T02:17:23Z GlassOctober joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:17:44Z GlassOctober is now known as cy
2014-10-30T02:20:52Z InvalidCo: hrm
2014-10-30T02:21:12Z InvalidCo: I still wonder if clx's xrender implementation is to blame
2014-10-30T02:21:29Z InvalidCo: at least the doublebuffer extension actually automagically resizes buffers
2014-10-30T02:21:39Z InvalidCo: it might also be that it is hiding all those errors
2014-10-30T02:25:25Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:29:03Z cy quit (Quit: :q!)
2014-10-30T02:29:23Z cy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:29:59Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:30:55Z frkout_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:31:41Z ELLIOTTCABLE quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-10-30T02:34:02Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:34:40Z InvalidCo: hmm
2014-10-30T02:35:31Z InvalidCo: it seems like sheeple won't update the object precedence list of objects made with make when the defproto is recompiled
2014-10-30T02:35:39Z InvalidCo: only the object itself
2014-10-30T02:35:40Z InvalidCo: curious
2014-10-30T02:41:46Z Ryan_Burnside joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:42:02Z f-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:42:20Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:42:40Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:42:57Z xyjprc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T02:45:16Z nalssee joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:46:56Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:47:01Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:49:13Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T02:50:08Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T02:50:42Z Ryan_Burnside quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T02:51:33Z Guest36984 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T02:51:50Z Guest36984 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:52:35Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:52:49Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2014-10-30T02:53:15Z huza joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:55:49Z wedgeV quit (Quit: wedgeV)
2014-10-30T02:56:51Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T02:57:18Z frkout joined #lisp
2014-10-30T02:57:40Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:01:12Z henesy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:07:47Z huza quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:10:29Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-10-30T03:12:09Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:13:36Z huza joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:14:31Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:16:26Z ofosos joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:19:46Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:19:58Z Guest36984 is now known as pjb
2014-10-30T03:20:27Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2014-10-30T03:20:39Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:24:01Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:24:56Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:26:01Z pjb: nyef: we're spread so thin, nobody use any CL library!
2014-10-30T03:27:04Z InvalidCo: :)
2014-10-30T03:28:05Z pjb: nyef: Cesarum was built on the ashes of Alexandria :-)
2014-10-30T03:28:51Z znode joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:29:52Z Rptx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T03:30:20Z pjb: InvalidCo: knowledge is very relevant: http://www.tele-task.de/archive/video/flash/14029/
2014-10-30T03:30:29Z f-a left #lisp
2014-10-30T03:32:23Z Panicky quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:33:08Z InvalidCo: pjb: all knowledge?
2014-10-30T03:33:30Z pjb: Arguably, yes.
2014-10-30T03:33:43Z InvalidCo: I was talking about different parts of data being made irrelevant by deprecation or other factors
2014-10-30T03:33:47Z InvalidCo: perfection is a bitch
2014-10-30T03:33:58Z pjb: Information is different.
2014-10-30T03:34:09Z InvalidCo: how so?
2014-10-30T03:34:46Z pjb: You may want to update information (data), but still know the historical values.
2014-10-30T03:35:45Z InvalidCo: you may, but you probably don't care about every little sidestep made during progress
2014-10-30T03:36:41Z pjb: cf. http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/elephant/elephant.html
2014-10-30T03:39:34Z InvalidCo: I think you are proving yourself wrong by linking lots of material which leads to your conclusion
2014-10-30T03:39:50Z InvalidCo: *+presumably
2014-10-30T03:40:08Z pjb: Some people like references.
2014-10-30T03:41:00Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-10-30T03:43:14Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:46:44Z nalssee joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:46:58Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T03:47:49Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:51:29Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:52:05Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T03:57:45Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:08:23Z znode quit (Quit: (null))
2014-10-30T04:11:18Z beach joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:11:29Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2014-10-30T04:13:49Z InvalidCo: morning beach!
2014-10-30T04:14:11Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:15:54Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:16:51Z xyjprc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:18:30Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:19:18Z nyef: Good morning beach.
2014-10-30T04:19:20Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:23:58Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:24:40Z cy quit (Quit: :q!)
2014-10-30T04:26:49Z cy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:26:56Z cy quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T04:30:01Z pillton: Good morning beach.
2014-10-30T04:32:21Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-10-30T04:32:47Z xyjprc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T04:36:23Z slyrus_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:37:21Z haz__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:38:09Z zRecursive: kmofbjkl lsd vgutg79ctdfig7l68r6''
2014-10-30T04:39:40Z Jubb quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:41:20Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:41:47Z TDog joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:46:41Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:47:21Z nalssee joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:48:53Z haz_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:51:29Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T04:51:48Z gabriel_laddel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T04:53:01Z pjb: zRecursive: exactly.
2014-10-30T04:53:10Z pjb: zRecursive: notably the "lsd" part.
2014-10-30T04:55:44Z nyef: Load String Double?
2014-10-30T04:56:06Z pjb: it was a literal quote.
2014-10-30T04:56:48Z kreoso__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:58:27Z kreoso__ quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T04:59:00Z nyef: I'd best get some sleep before my sense of humor gets even more out of control. It's coming up with syntax like '#.(car ''0)) for "literal quote".
2014-10-30T04:59:26Z nyef: ... Sleep might also fix my paren-balancer.
2014-10-30T04:59:27Z ___osoerk joined #lisp
2014-10-30T04:59:45Z zRecursive: pjb: sorry! keyboard problem
2014-10-30T04:59:48Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.)
2014-10-30T05:03:06Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:04:46Z haz_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T05:08:29Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:11:08Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:13:26Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T05:16:48Z brucem quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2014-10-30T05:17:01Z ___osoerk quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-10-30T05:17:17Z brucem joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:18:05Z brucem quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T05:18:05Z brucem joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:18:26Z haz__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:20:38Z Niac joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:23:09Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T05:23:44Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:24:16Z mwsb joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:26:58Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime)
2014-10-30T05:28:41Z yuikov quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T05:33:05Z mwsb quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-10-30T05:34:40Z protist joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:35:41Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:36:40Z zeitue joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:40:50Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T05:41:27Z tesuji joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:45:44Z psy_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:46:40Z theotherstupidgu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T05:46:58Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:48:03Z nalssee joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:52:41Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T05:54:33Z ofosos quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T05:58:16Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T05:58:16Z pranavrc quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T05:58:16Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:00:11Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-10-30T06:00:31Z baetheus quit
2014-10-30T06:02:53Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:04:20Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: mental process finished by computer burnout)
2014-10-30T06:05:08Z henesy quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2014-10-30T06:05:16Z Ryan_Burnside joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:08:17Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T06:13:42Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:14:02Z beach` joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:15:39Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T06:16:33Z khisanth_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:17:50Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T06:19:10Z zxq9 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:23:16Z prxq joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:23:31Z phao quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T06:24:19Z Nizumzen joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:24:23Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:29:20Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:30:04Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:33:47Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2014-10-30T06:34:52Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T06:39:51Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T06:40:24Z alexey joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:40:24Z hitecnologys quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T06:41:23Z Ryan_Burnside quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T06:43:01Z loz joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:43:21Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:43:55Z wizzo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:44:07Z chu joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:44:12Z wizzo quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T06:44:12Z wizzo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:45:22Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:49:55Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:50:27Z beach` left #lisp
2014-10-30T06:51:09Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T06:52:59Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-10-30T06:54:06Z loz quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-10-30T06:54:48Z frkout_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:55:15Z pranavrc_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:57:19Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T06:58:01Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2014-10-30T06:58:50Z pranavrc quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T06:58:56Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T06:59:00Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:01:00Z baetheus joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:02:17Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:02:22Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:04:10Z nalssee joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:05:34Z vlnx quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T07:07:32Z vlnx joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:08:53Z nalssee quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:09:43Z yeticry quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-10-30T07:11:29Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:13:32Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:14:23Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:16:01Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:16:21Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:16:23Z effy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T07:16:39Z effy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:17:05Z keen________ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T07:18:29Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T07:18:56Z frkout joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:19:22Z keen________ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:21:53Z stepnem joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:23:55Z pjb joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:24:14Z pjb is now known as Guest27448
2014-10-30T07:27:24Z yeticry joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:28:01Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:28:01Z pranavrc quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T07:28:01Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:29:27Z pranavrc_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:33:03Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-10-30T07:33:44Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:34:30Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:34:49Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:36:42Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:38:36Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T07:39:04Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:42:03Z Guest27448 is now known as pjb`
2014-10-30T07:42:16Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2014-10-30T07:42:32Z xificurC joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:43:36Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T07:43:51Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:44:05Z nug700 quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-10-30T07:46:23Z whartung quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:47:04Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T07:47:26Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T07:48:12Z whartung joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:49:54Z Beetny joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:51:08Z c74d joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:51:27Z nha_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T07:55:53Z MoALTz_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T07:56:11Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!)
2014-10-30T08:04:14Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:06:07Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:06:16Z corni joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:06:16Z corni quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T08:06:16Z corni joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:08:25Z zickzackv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:14:21Z theos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T08:14:40Z matko joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:14:58Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:17:33Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:20:54Z Nizumzen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:21:21Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:21:53Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:23:18Z alexey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T08:23:27Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:23:50Z baetheus quit
2014-10-30T08:24:03Z yuikov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:38:19Z yati joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:38:48Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:39:09Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:41:09Z troydm joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:42:48Z nha_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:43:25Z yeticry quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-10-30T08:48:02Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:52:47Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:52:53Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-10-30T08:57:39Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T08:58:50Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T08:58:51Z hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys
2014-10-30T09:00:09Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T09:01:07Z mband_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:03:59Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T09:04:38Z rjmacready_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:06:06Z mband joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:07:45Z mband_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T09:08:22Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:10:38Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:11:23Z otwieracz is now known as chotwieracz
2014-10-30T09:11:38Z chotwieracz is now known as otwieracz
2014-10-30T09:11:52Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:15:17Z pt1_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:15:22Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T09:17:38Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:18:31Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T09:22:01Z pavelpenev joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:23:13Z alexey joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:27:02Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:29:49Z ellis-a quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2014-10-30T09:30:11Z malice joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:32:04Z Niac quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T09:32:25Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:32:57Z ellis-a quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T09:40:32Z Harag joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:40:51Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-10-30T09:51:27Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T09:51:35Z LoicLisp joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:51:55Z Ranis joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:52:11Z resttime joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:52:16Z Ranis quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T09:53:05Z Ranis joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:54:10Z Ranis quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T09:54:25Z Ranis joined #lisp
2014-10-30T09:59:35Z malice quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T10:03:17Z arenz joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:12:51Z theos joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:12:56Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T10:17:50Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:18:02Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T10:21:20Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-10-30T10:22:24Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T10:24:26Z przl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:27:51Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:28:12Z davidc_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:29:06Z davidc_: Question about cl-typesetting, paste is http://paste.lisp.org/+33A2
2014-10-30T10:30:39Z H4ns: did you have a question, too?
2014-10-30T10:31:12Z davidc_: Yes, In the code I've got in the paste, I can't seem to get the stroke method to fire.
2014-10-30T10:32:02Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:32:13Z davidc_: I'm trying to draw a custom shape (will be a QR code) inside a cl-typesetting region. Can't seem to get it to work.
2014-10-30T10:32:32Z H4ns: davidc_: are you sure that "stroke" is the right name of the function?
2014-10-30T10:32:40Z davidc_: I have a bit of a dummy method in my paste. It simply calls print. But it doesn't fire.
2014-10-30T10:32:41Z H4ns: davidc_: it might really be "pdf:stroke"
2014-10-30T10:32:58Z H4ns: davidc_: "fire" is not a useful word when talking about common lisp code.
2014-10-30T10:33:07Z davidc_: I thought it was a method..
2014-10-30T10:33:20Z H4ns: davidc_: a method does not "fire", it is applicable according to method selection rules.
2014-10-30T10:33:20Z davidc_: Hmm yes, fire might not be the right word...
2014-10-30T10:33:32Z davidc_: okay, thanks.
2014-10-30T10:33:38Z H4ns: davidc_: type (apropos "stroke")
2014-10-30T10:34:05Z H4ns: davidc_: maybe you see two symbols named "STROKE", one in the cl-user package and the other in the pdf package?
2014-10-30T10:34:27Z davidc_: In the example code for cl-typesetting (test.lisp), it shows a stroke method as an example.
2014-10-30T10:34:44Z H4ns: davidc_: please read my suggestion.
2014-10-30T10:34:44Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:34:45Z davidc_: hmm, okay.
2014-10-30T10:35:03Z davidc_: How would I find which one I'm calling?
2014-10-30T10:35:36Z H4ns: davidc_: did you find two "STROKE" symbols in your apropos output?
2014-10-30T10:35:58Z davidc_: And do I need to do something to the defmethod so it knows it should be being applied for graphics in cl-typeset?
2014-10-30T10:36:09Z davidc_: I'll have a look
2014-10-30T10:36:16Z H4ns: you need to name the function correctly
2014-10-30T10:36:28Z H4ns: stroke and pdf:stroke may be completely separate names.
2014-10-30T10:36:48Z H4ns: so maybe (defmethod pdf:stroke ...) would be better.
2014-10-30T10:36:59Z davidc_: There are different strokes :)
2014-10-30T10:37:03Z H4ns: see?
2014-10-30T10:37:26Z davidc_: They are for pdf and typeset...
2014-10-30T10:38:01Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:38:38Z davidc_: Ah, so I can prefix the name of the method in defmethod?
2014-10-30T10:38:54Z H4ns: davidc_: you can prefix any symbol with its package
2014-10-30T10:39:00Z H4ns: davidc_: functions are named by symbols
2014-10-30T10:39:16Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T10:39:22Z H4ns: davidc_: methods are defined for functions, and you refer to the function that you define a method on by its name
2014-10-30T10:40:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:40:01Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T10:40:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:40:55Z munksgaard quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-10-30T10:41:12Z davidc_: Ah, let me just think about that for a sec.
2014-10-30T10:41:44Z H4ns: davidc_: if your code contains unqualified symbols (i.e. that have no package prefix), the package referred to by the *package* dynamic variable is implied, at read time
2014-10-30T10:42:03Z H4ns: davidc_: it sounds rather complicated, but it is not once you get it :)
2014-10-30T10:42:27Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T10:43:02Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:43:03Z davidc_: I didn't get the first bit about methods for functions. However, putting a tt:: in front of stroke, got it being called. So I'm much further along now.
2014-10-30T10:43:33Z MouldyOldBones quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T10:43:57Z H4ns: davidc_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_function has a good and short intro on what generic functions and methods are.
2014-10-30T10:44:42Z davidc_: Can I think of it as ... if I want to specialise (if that's the right word ?) stroke, I need to say which one I'm specialising.
2014-10-30T10:44:58Z H4ns: not which one, but for what arguments
2014-10-30T10:45:11Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:45:20Z davidc_: Yes, sorry arguments
2014-10-30T10:45:35Z H4ns: there is only one tt::stroke generic function which consists of a number of methods.  when the tt::stroke generic function is invoked, the applicable methods are determined and invoked.
2014-10-30T10:46:37Z davidc_: So, my stroke was a generic then is that right?
2014-10-30T10:46:52Z H4ns: there is no such thing as "a generic"
2014-10-30T10:47:08Z H4ns: your stroke was a new generic function, independent of tt::generic
2014-10-30T10:47:26Z H4ns: if you write (defmethod foo ...), a generic function foo is automatically created if it had not existed before.
2014-10-30T10:47:40Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T10:47:45Z davidc_: Yes, that makes sense
2014-10-30T10:47:53Z H4ns: most compilers generate a notice when a generic function is implictly created.
2014-10-30T10:48:25Z H4ns: but as it is common to not use defgeneric and just rely on defmethod to create generic functions implicitly, that compiler notice is easy to overlook.
2014-10-30T10:48:41Z davidc_: Ah, I see. Yes I was getting that.
2014-10-30T10:49:27Z davidc_: H4ns: That was very helpful. Thanks.
2014-10-30T10:50:28Z davidc_: I'll have a look at the link too.
2014-10-30T10:51:19Z huza joined #lisp
2014-10-30T10:51:24Z davidc_: H4ns: I have to head off, thanks again for your help.
2014-10-30T10:51:29Z H4ns: enjoy!
2014-10-30T10:52:46Z davidc_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T10:54:28Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:00:29Z ellis-a quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:01:56Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:02:08Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:06:54Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:09:31Z alexey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T11:12:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:15:30Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:19:21Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:19:48Z resttime: is there a way to add behavior to a CLOS object when it is garbage collected?
2014-10-30T11:20:55Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:21:00Z resttime: for example I have a CLOS object that has a CFFI allocated structure in it
2014-10-30T11:21:20Z resttime: i'd like the class to automatically free the CFFI memory when it gets garbage collected
2014-10-30T11:21:35Z H4ns: resttime: look at trivial-garbage
2014-10-30T11:21:43Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T11:22:16Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T11:23:25Z ggole joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:26:20Z resttime: H4ns, interesting thanks
2014-10-30T11:26:27Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:29:06Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:34:02Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:35:30Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-10-30T11:38:18Z alexey joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:40:29Z cosiner joined #lisp
2014-10-30T11:43:39Z cosiner left #lisp
2014-10-30T11:47:20Z resttime: sorry this seems to be beyond what I can understand
2014-10-30T11:47:41Z resttime: i thought that making a waek pointer to a (cffi:foreign-alloc :int) would work
2014-10-30T11:47:44Z resttime: *weak
2014-10-30T11:48:28Z resttime: so when I run (trivial-garbage:gc :full t) it would automatically free the CFFI memory up as well
2014-10-30T11:48:41Z resttime: but that doesn't seem to be the case
2014-10-30T11:50:27Z resttime: oh wait
2014-10-30T11:50:30Z resttime: finalizers
2014-10-30T11:54:01Z resttime: learned something new today whoo hoo
2014-10-30T11:55:07Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:55:38Z resttime: Weak pointer to CFFI object and finalizer can determine that behavior
2014-10-30T11:55:41Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T11:56:00Z resttime: customize class reader to use weak-pointer-value
2014-10-30T11:56:11Z resttime: class slot reader*
2014-10-30T11:56:48Z thawes joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:00:14Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:03:14Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:10:22Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:20:33Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:22:15Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:23:28Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:24:52Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:26:49Z Longlius quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:27:11Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T12:28:17Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:32:21Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T12:33:36Z pjb joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:34:04Z pjb is now known as Guest28559
2014-10-30T12:34:05Z Jubb joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:34:45Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:35:43Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:36:11Z c74d joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:39:52Z yati quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T12:42:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:43:41Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:45:35Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
2014-10-30T12:48:45Z stassats quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T12:50:20Z H4ns: resttime: a downside of using finalizers to manage external resources is that there is no guarantee that your object will ever be garbage collected.
2014-10-30T12:50:41Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:50:42Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:51:03Z Guest28559 is now known as pjb`
2014-10-30T12:51:12Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2014-10-30T12:51:33Z H4ns: resttime: this means that your program could hold on to external resources much longer than what you anticipate.  if these resources are scarce, you could end up with, say, heap or file descriptor exhaustion in a long-running program.
2014-10-30T12:52:03Z resttime: I thought that was the case to be without weak pointers as well
2014-10-30T12:52:07Z H4ns: resttime: therefore, it is generally advisable to explicitly free external resources rather than rely on finalizers.
2014-10-30T12:53:02Z H4ns: resttime: weak pointers do not have any problems in itself, as long as they only point to memory controller by the garbage collector.  the problem is really related to non-garbage-collected resources.
2014-10-30T12:53:35Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:54:29Z yeticry joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:55:28Z resttime: could you describe a small example of such a case?
2014-10-30T12:55:32Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:56:01Z abbe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:56:12Z resttime: i think i'm understanding it, but just to be sure
2014-10-30T12:56:31Z H4ns: resttime: suppose you have some clos object that holds a pointer to some memory allocated on the c heap, guarded by a finalizer to make sure that the c memory is freed when the clos object is collected
2014-10-30T12:56:42Z resttime: k
2014-10-30T12:56:51Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T12:56:56Z yorick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T12:56:56Z H4ns: resttime: now, suppose the object lives for quite a while and ends up in a long-lived pool by the garbage collector
2014-10-30T12:57:03Z _death quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:57:10Z _death joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:57:28Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:57:40Z H4ns: resttime: now, further suppose that most of the objects in the program are short lived, and the gc only collects in the short-lived pools, never seeing any need to collect garbage in the long-lived pool.
2014-10-30T12:57:58Z abbe joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:58:00Z przl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:58:02Z cmatei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:58:03Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:58:18Z H4ns: resttime: in such a situation, if no references to the object first mentioned (holding on the the c memory) remain, it might never be collected.
2014-10-30T12:58:22Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:58:30Z yorick joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:59:10Z H4ns: resttime: i'm not saying that this will be a problem, but you have little control over this because the garbage collector does not see whether the external, non-managed resources are scarce or not.
2014-10-30T12:59:18Z protist joined #lisp
2014-10-30T12:59:26Z MouldyOldBones quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-30T12:59:39Z c74d joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:00:14Z protist quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T13:00:30Z protist joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:00:38Z protist quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T13:00:51Z protist joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:01:10Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:01:28Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:02:02Z resttime: so the weak pointer stays for so long that the GC doesn't try to collect it anymore
2014-10-30T13:02:08Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2014-10-30T13:02:15Z resttime: is basically what I'm getting
2014-10-30T13:02:30Z resttime: and that's what blowsthe stack
2014-10-30T13:02:40Z H4ns: the stack?
2014-10-30T13:02:58Z resttime: errr i mean memory leaking
2014-10-30T13:03:08Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:03:12Z mband_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:03:30Z H4ns: i would not call it leak, because the object _could_ be collected if the garbage collector ever felt like it.
2014-10-30T13:03:55Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:04:08Z yeticry joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:05:26Z resttime: hmmm, I guess what I'm having trouble understanding is why the GC doesn't see external non-managed resources
2014-10-30T13:05:44Z resttime: i thought the way GC works is that if memory goes above this amount then it wants to start collecting things
2014-10-30T13:06:16Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:06:23Z H4ns: resttime: correct.  but it does so using various strategies.  first off, it needs to decide when to collected
2014-10-30T13:06:44Z H4ns: resttime: it might do that based on the amount memory used, for example.
2014-10-30T13:07:10Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:07:20Z H4ns: resttime: but as the external memory referenced by your pointers is not included in the numbers that the garbage collector uses, it does not know that there might be a shortage.
2014-10-30T13:07:30Z H4ns: resttime: secondly, it needs to decide what to collect
2014-10-30T13:07:37Z resttime: ahhhhhh
2014-10-30T13:07:54Z H4ns: resttime: and usually, it would not do a full scan of the whole heap to find unreferenced objects
2014-10-30T13:08:02Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:08:24Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:08:25Z H4ns: resttime: rather, it would assume that most memory has been consumed by short-lived objects and thus only scan that part of memory that has been recently allocated.
2014-10-30T13:08:54Z H4ns: resttime: if it can free up "enough" memory by freeing recently allocated object, it might never do a full scan.  or very rarely.
2014-10-30T13:12:12Z resttime: thanks, very interesting and learned a fair amount
2014-10-30T13:12:50Z H4ns: enjoy
2014-10-30T13:13:05Z theos joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:13:35Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:14:26Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2014-10-30T13:15:15Z resttime: BitPuffin, are you there?
2014-10-30T13:17:39Z eudoxia quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T13:17:51Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:17:53Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:18:12Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:19:10Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:19:24Z karswell` joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:19:47Z nyef joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:20:11Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:20:24Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T13:20:42Z ynniv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:21:11Z ynniv: what’s CL’s idiomatic way to remove an entry from an alist?
2014-10-30T13:21:31Z H4ns: (remove 'foo alist :key #'car)
2014-10-30T13:21:42Z heddwch quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:22:06Z alexey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T13:22:27Z heddwch joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:23:01Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:23:37Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:23:41Z H4ns: alexandria has removef as destructive variant.
2014-10-30T13:24:09Z nyef: G'morning all.
2014-10-30T13:26:50Z mband joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:29:44Z ggole: Isn't delete the destructive variant? I imagine that deletef would be a setf thing.
2014-10-30T13:29:46Z mband_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:29:54Z ggole: Er, removef
2014-10-30T13:29:55Z H4ns: ggole: you are right
2014-10-30T13:30:14Z H4ns: ggole: removef is not destructive, but modifies the argument.
2014-10-30T13:30:18Z ggole: Oh, you meant destructive as in changes the *variable* in place
2014-10-30T13:30:20Z ggole: Right.
2014-10-30T13:31:23Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:31:51Z mband joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:32:05Z william3 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:34:45Z tesuji joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:36:11Z phao joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:36:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: lifeform experiment abandoned by redundant something)
2014-10-30T13:38:23Z jusss` joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:38:48Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T13:39:33Z pjb joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:39:41Z jusss quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T13:39:54Z pjb is now known as Guest54035
2014-10-30T13:40:49Z Guest54035 left #lisp
2014-10-30T13:41:01Z pjb joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:41:06Z pranavrc quit
2014-10-30T13:41:31Z j_king joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:41:36Z lambda joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:45:03Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:47:19Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:47:47Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:48:04Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:48:10Z thawes joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:50:17Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:52:28Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T13:52:29Z BitPuffin: resttime: yes
2014-10-30T13:52:51Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:53:34Z resttime: what did you think of the Allegro5 bindings?
2014-10-30T13:53:54Z harish_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:53:59Z resttime: you're probably the first to give me a pull request
2014-10-30T13:55:22Z resttime: that is if you have any impressions or thoughts on stuff you'd like to see
2014-10-30T13:56:45Z dlowe: So, I ran a MUD for many years. During that time, I was doing a rewrite of the large C codebase in Common Lisp. I never finished it, and I quit running the MUD months ago, but I just put the code on github.
2014-10-30T13:56:56Z dlowe: https://github.com/TempusMUD/cl-tempus
2014-10-30T13:57:20Z dlowe: It's probably one of the larger Common Lisp game codebases made public
2014-10-30T13:58:24Z InvalidCo: dlowe: did you have an active userbase?
2014-10-30T13:58:27Z dlowe: Development also spans years, so some parts of it are written with a lot less experience than other parts
2014-10-30T13:58:34Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:58:46Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2014-10-30T13:58:48Z pjb: Will it only run on sbcl?
2014-10-30T13:59:13Z dlowe: InvalidCo: I failed to sufficiently prune the trolls, and eventually they were the entire playerbase. I had a choice between throwing everyone out, shutting down, or quitting. I chose quitting.
2014-10-30T13:59:20Z rjmacready_: it says at the readme that it was written for sbcl
2014-10-30T13:59:23Z dlowe: pjb: beats me
2014-10-30T13:59:40Z rjmacready_: pjb, dlowe: ^
2014-10-30T13:59:41Z dlowe: I don't even remember what-all is in there.
2014-10-30T13:59:42Z ahungry_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T13:59:50Z InvalidCo: dlowe: that's a ashame
2014-10-30T13:59:54Z InvalidCo: *-a
2014-10-30T13:59:58Z rjmacready_: (if it runs, now thats a different story :P)
2014-10-30T14:01:13Z dlowe: I suspect it's portable as long as its dependencies are.
2014-10-30T14:01:46Z dlowe: It's been two years since I worked on it, so it may take some tinkering to get running.
2014-10-30T14:02:15Z pjb: there are some references to sb-* packages spread over  a few files.
2014-10-30T14:02:34Z pjb: So it could probably be made portable easily.
2014-10-30T14:02:48Z pjb: Uses a postgres database.
2014-10-30T14:04:03Z dlowe: It's extremely bare-bones, but it's a functioning game
2014-10-30T14:04:23Z BitPuffin: resttime: ah yes
2014-10-30T14:04:25Z pjb: you should announce it in #lispgames
2014-10-30T14:04:35Z BitPuffin: I think I had some more issues so I haven't used them much
2014-10-30T14:04:47Z BitPuffin: but umm
2014-10-30T14:04:56Z BitPuffin: I think the clear function was broken
2014-10-30T14:04:59Z BitPuffin: and I didn't know how to fix it
2014-10-30T14:05:26Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:05:34Z BitPuffin: resttime: I think it was that the al color routines weren't exported or something
2014-10-30T14:05:51Z resttime: BitPuffin, ah yes
2014-10-30T14:06:04Z resttime: they return a ALLEGRO_COLOR structure by value
2014-10-30T14:06:23Z BitPuffin: yeah
2014-10-30T14:06:30Z BitPuffin: is that a problem?
2014-10-30T14:06:39Z dlowe: pjb: I would expect the #lispgames population to be a subset of #lisp
2014-10-30T14:06:41Z dlowe: but okay
2014-10-30T14:06:45Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T14:06:45Z resttime: CFFI doesn't support without libffi which i wanted to avoid
2014-10-30T14:06:54Z BitPuffin: aha
2014-10-30T14:06:55Z BitPuffin: hmm
2014-10-30T14:06:59Z resttime: though i'll make a new branch that will support it
2014-10-30T14:07:08Z BitPuffin: well the passing colors as a parameter caused a segfault iirc
2014-10-30T14:07:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:07:35Z resttime: well the way clear should work is just giving it floats
2014-10-30T14:08:23Z resttime: good thing about a function that takes in a structure by value, you can just give it a parameter for every value in the structure
2014-10-30T14:08:42Z BitPuffin: right
2014-10-30T14:08:43Z resttime: so (al:clear-to-color 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0)
2014-10-30T14:09:02Z BitPuffin: but when I pass 3 parameters it doesn't compile
2014-10-30T14:09:09Z BitPuffin: and if I pass 4 it segfaults
2014-10-30T14:09:14Z BitPuffin: or the other way around can't remember which
2014-10-30T14:09:29Z BitPuffin: map-rgb only takes three args
2014-10-30T14:09:37Z BitPuffin: but I don't know the size of allegro_color
2014-10-30T14:09:41Z BitPuffin: maybe it's 4 floats
2014-10-30T14:09:46Z resttime: yeah it's 4 floats
2014-10-30T14:09:50Z BitPuffin: ah
2014-10-30T14:09:57Z BitPuffin: well then I don't know why it segfaults
2014-10-30T14:10:02Z BitPuffin: could you test it with ccl? :)
2014-10-30T14:10:03Z resttime: all functions that take in ALLEGRO_COLOR has 4 extra parameters
2014-10-30T14:10:05Z BitPuffin: I can't do it now
2014-10-30T14:10:15Z redeemed joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:10:35Z resttime: alright sure, I can't see why it would seg fault either
2014-10-30T14:10:51Z resttime: which version of CCL did you use?
2014-10-30T14:10:56Z ellis-a quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T14:11:02Z resttime: also I'm on a windows machine hahaha...
2014-10-30T14:12:14Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:12:42Z resttime: well i'll just test with 1.10
2014-10-30T14:12:45Z BitPuffin: yeah I was also testing on windows
2014-10-30T14:12:52Z BitPuffin: that is actually why I was using ccl :P
2014-10-30T14:13:06Z BitPuffin: since sbcl is apparently very experimental on windows
2014-10-30T14:13:10Z BitPuffin: but ccl is well supported
2014-10-30T14:13:11Z BitPuffin: so
2014-10-30T14:13:11Z BitPuffin: :P
2014-10-30T14:14:11Z eschulte joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:16:04Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-10-30T14:16:44Z effy quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2014-10-30T14:16:51Z haz__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T14:17:00Z effy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:17:13Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T14:18:20Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T14:19:18Z thawes quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2014-10-30T14:19:33Z bullone joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:20:10Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:20:34Z thawes joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:21:46Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:27:19Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T14:30:45Z resttime: BitPuffin, works perfectly
2014-10-30T14:32:24Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:33:12Z oleo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:33:32Z resttime: though oddly it is only 3 parameters, should be 4 to include the alpha channel
2014-10-30T14:34:16Z alexey joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:34:55Z haz__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:35:11Z nalkri joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:35:13Z BitPuffin: hmm
2014-10-30T14:35:20Z BitPuffin: well something was wrong for me at least
2014-10-30T14:35:26Z BitPuffin: maybe it's if you are using 64 bit and stuff
2014-10-30T14:35:33Z BitPuffin: (like I was)
2014-10-30T14:35:40Z BitPuffin: resttime: did the struct change in 5.1?
2014-10-30T14:35:53Z resttime: the allegro DLL comes with is x86 only
2014-10-30T14:36:01Z BitPuffin: I built my own
2014-10-30T14:36:20Z resttime: 5.1 i don't think so
2014-10-30T14:36:28Z varjagg joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:37:01Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T14:37:18Z varjagg quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T14:38:18Z resttime: if you pass me your win64 binary allegro i could trywith that
2014-10-30T14:38:25Z BitPuffin: sure hang on
2014-10-30T14:39:25Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:40:45Z BitPuffin: resttime: uploading
2014-10-30T14:40:54Z BitPuffin: it's called 5.0.10 or whatever just because that's what the binding wanted
2014-10-30T14:40:56Z BitPuffin: but it should be 5.1
2014-10-30T14:42:44Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T14:42:47Z H4ns: i often use the pattern (dolist (entry list-of-lists) (destructuring-bind (foo bar) entry ...)) - is there a common macro that combines dolist and destructuring-bind which does that and not much else?  i'm not looking for a LOOP replacement, really.
2014-10-30T14:43:14Z resttime: it's also has to be the monolith  version to include everything
2014-10-30T14:43:25Z BitPuffin: it is
2014-10-30T14:43:32Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-10-30T14:44:03Z pjb: H4ns: loop
2014-10-30T14:44:15Z pjb: (loop for (foo bar) in list-of-list do …)
2014-10-30T14:44:22Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T14:44:34Z BitPuffin: right hope that this has been fully synced
2014-10-30T14:44:36Z BitPuffin: http://bitpuffin.com/imgpaste/allegro-5.0.10-monolith-mt.dll
2014-10-30T14:44:40Z BitPuffin: resttime: ^
2014-10-30T14:47:17Z BitPuffin: c688759f7c51aebeaa85237416e73c68 *allegro-5.0.10-monolith-mt.dll
2014-10-30T14:47:27Z BitPuffin: md5sum ^
2014-10-30T14:48:18Z Grue`: loop's destructuring isn't exactly like destructuring-bind's though
2014-10-30T14:48:23Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T14:48:29Z jusss` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T14:49:08Z pjb: Indeed. And writing a macro to combine dolist and destructing bind would take less character than this message.
2014-10-30T14:52:53Z resttime: BitPuffin, doesn't seem to be letting me load to lib on CCLx64
2014-10-30T14:54:54Z resttime: CCLx32 and 32bit DLL work fine
2014-10-30T14:55:00Z BitPuffin: resttime: did you check the checksum
2014-10-30T14:55:40Z resttime: exact same md5
2014-10-30T14:55:45Z Grue`: IME dlls are total crapshoot as to whether cffi loads them or not
2014-10-30T14:56:17Z BitPuffin: alright hmm
2014-10-30T14:56:28Z BitPuffin: well maybe that's an old dll I dunno, let me check
2014-10-30T14:56:31Z Grue`: maybe it depends on other dlls
2014-10-30T14:56:53Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T14:56:57Z BitPuffin: nah that should be the 64 bit one
2014-10-30T14:57:08Z BitPuffin: no it's the monolith build
2014-10-30T14:58:16Z BitPuffin: resttime: well I did sort of temporarily drop that project. Focusing on working on my own lang currently. However I do want to be involved in helping the binding be better :) I just sort of forgot which problems I had haha
2014-10-30T14:59:01Z BitPuffin: eventually I tried switching to opengl for clearing
2014-10-30T14:59:07Z BitPuffin: but I guess that didn't work out either somehom
2014-10-30T14:59:49Z resttime: well I guess I'll try to build my own DLL then
2014-10-30T14:59:58Z BitPuffin: yeah maybe
2014-10-30T15:00:02Z BitPuffin: I was doing it with msys
2014-10-30T15:00:09Z resttime: oh wait i don't have an x64 compiler ha
2014-10-30T15:00:22Z BitPuffin: install msys2
2014-10-30T15:00:27Z BitPuffin: there is a pretty great guide on the wiki :)
2014-10-30T15:00:31Z BitPuffin: the allegro wiki that is
2014-10-30T15:00:35Z BitPuffin: let me find it for you
2014-10-30T15:00:58Z BitPuffin: https://wiki.allegro.cc/index.php?title=Building_with_msys2
2014-10-30T15:03:16Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:03:43Z ellis-a quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:04:52Z TDog joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:06:28Z TDog_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:06:37Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:08:02Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:08:24Z resttime: wait it was some path problem i think
2014-10-30T15:08:42Z thawes joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:09:50Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:09:54Z TDog_ is now known as TDog
2014-10-30T15:11:00Z drdanmaku joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:11:20Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:13:14Z alpha- joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:13:38Z alpha-: how do you iterate over a list taking 3 elements at a time
2014-10-30T15:13:44Z alpha-: or N elements at a time
2014-10-30T15:13:50Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:16:09Z resttime: and yet the DLL is still problematic
2014-10-30T15:16:11Z ggole: (loop for (a b c) on list by #'cdddr ...)
2014-10-30T15:16:16Z BitPuffin: resttime: hrm :/
2014-10-30T15:16:21Z alpha-: ah, loop
2014-10-30T15:16:23Z BitPuffin: yeah I remember battling with paths and shit
2014-10-30T15:16:25Z BitPuffin: hehe
2014-10-30T15:16:26Z BitPuffin: :P
2014-10-30T15:16:33Z alpha-: ok, thanks
2014-10-30T15:16:38Z BitPuffin: though I remember that my issue was the same with the 32 bit one as well I believe
2014-10-30T15:16:41Z BitPuffin: could be mistaken though
2014-10-30T15:16:48Z alpha- left #lisp
2014-10-30T15:16:48Z ggole: That's "on", not "in" - easy to miss
2014-10-30T15:16:50Z BitPuffin: sorry I'm not much of help, I sort of forgot stuff :D
2014-10-30T15:17:04Z nha_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:17:11Z resttime: nah that's alright
2014-10-30T15:17:21Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:17:35Z resttime: i'm going to raise an issue on github to remind myself to look into this later
2014-10-30T15:19:21Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:22:31Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:23:08Z wedgeV joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:25:16Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T15:28:48Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T15:30:09Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:31:02Z c74d joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:33:04Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:33:14Z flip214 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T15:33:18Z Nizumzen joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:33:48Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:35:10Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:36:32Z flip214 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:36:40Z wedgeV quit (Quit: wedgeV)
2014-10-30T15:38:04Z ioanna joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:38:56Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:39:26Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T15:39:32Z ioanna left #lisp
2014-10-30T15:39:34Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:42:12Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:42:26Z malice joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:42:38Z loke_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T15:45:14Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:49:10Z psy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:49:24Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:49:34Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2014-10-30T15:50:39Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:50:58Z rtra joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:51:57Z nisstyre joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:53:49Z alexey quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2014-10-30T15:53:58Z alpha- joined #lisp
2014-10-30T15:55:02Z alpha-: how does one generate a list of number? basically I want the analog of perl do { $_ ...} for 20 .. 50 where $_ will take values from 20, 21, 22 to 49.. 50
2014-10-30T15:55:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: alpha-, (loop for i to 10 collect i)
2014-10-30T15:55:58Z Petit_Dejeuner: That's how I would do it.
2014-10-30T15:56:04Z alpha-: so loop again.. I see
2014-10-30T15:56:08Z alpha-: thank you Petit_Dejeuner
2014-10-30T15:56:16Z Petit_Dejeuner: A lot of people seem to prefer iterate instead of loop.
2014-10-30T15:56:17Z alpha-: looks like to every question I ask the answer is loop
2014-10-30T15:56:22Z alpha-: lol
2014-10-30T15:56:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: alpha-, Do you use any languages with list comprehensions?
2014-10-30T15:57:04Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T15:57:11Z alpha-: Petit_Dejeuner probably not.
2014-10-30T15:57:29Z Petit_Dejeuner: [x for i in range(10)] #Python?
2014-10-30T16:00:03Z ellis-a quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2014-10-30T16:00:51Z alpha-: Petit_Dejeuner is it possible to have loop calculate the "to" part at runtime? as in (loop for i from 0 to (- 100 50) )
2014-10-30T16:00:58Z alpha-: or so
2014-10-30T16:01:03Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:01:16Z DGASAU: Wouldn't it be stupid not to do that?
2014-10-30T16:01:32Z alpha-: ok
2014-10-30T16:05:22Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:05:49Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:06:05Z Grue`: and (- 100 50) wouldn't be calculated at runtime anyway by a sufficiently smart compiler
2014-10-30T16:07:39Z BitPuffin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:08:10Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:10:53Z nisstyre quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T16:10:53Z nisstyre joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:12:22Z pt1_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T16:12:49Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:13:17Z redeemed quit (Quit: q)
2014-10-30T16:15:55Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:18:47Z theos joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:18:47Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:19:03Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:19:38Z baetheus joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:24:00Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:24:29Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2014-10-30T16:24:58Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:25:16Z ltbarcly_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T16:25:17Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:25:52Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:26:04Z MouldyOldBones quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:26:04Z DrCode quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:26:04Z McMAGIC--Copy quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:26:04Z codeburg quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:26:05Z adlai quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:26:36Z _5kg joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:26:53Z pt1_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:27:16Z cy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:27:20Z Ryan_Burnside joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:27:48Z DrCode joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:28:09Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:28:10Z adlai joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:28:19Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:28:21Z mvilleneuve quit (Read error: No route to host)
2014-10-30T16:28:34Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:29:14Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:30:03Z codeburg joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:30:28Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:31:25Z pt1_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:31:57Z xificurC quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0)
2014-10-30T16:33:01Z przl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:33:20Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:34:30Z Shinmera joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:34:50Z Colleen quit (Quit: See you, space cowboy...)
2014-10-30T16:38:07Z Colleen joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:38:23Z ndrei quit (Read error: No route to host)
2014-10-30T16:38:40Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:40:17Z Petit_Dejeuner: alpha-, I think there's different syntax depending on whether you want to go up or down.
2014-10-30T16:40:18Z ellis-a quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2014-10-30T16:40:29Z ofosos joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:40:37Z sol__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:42:23Z McMAGIC--Copy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:44:00Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:44:35Z lambda quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-10-30T16:46:09Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:48:45Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:53:08Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-10-30T16:55:09Z theos quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T16:55:20Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:55:45Z k-stz joined #lisp
2014-10-30T16:58:10Z ndrei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T16:59:36Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:00:20Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:02:31Z ynniv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:04:02Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:05:15Z psy quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-10-30T17:05:56Z psy_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:08:34Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:12:18Z Longlius joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:18:49Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T17:21:30Z c74d joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:21:54Z justinmburrous joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:22:37Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:26:41Z Panicky joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:27:22Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:28:51Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-10-30T17:30:07Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:34:37Z baetheus quit
2014-10-30T17:35:08Z Houl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:36:35Z Pullphinger joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:36:36Z Pullphinger quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2014-10-30T17:36:50Z Pullphinger joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:36:51Z Pullphinger quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2014-10-30T17:37:29Z Pullphinger joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:37:30Z Pullphinger quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2014-10-30T17:38:13Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:38:14Z Pullphinger joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:40:00Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2014-10-30T17:42:37Z baetheus joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:47:32Z mhd joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:49:47Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:50:20Z xificurC joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:51:02Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:51:43Z slyrus_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:53:03Z william3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T17:53:26Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:53:35Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2014-10-30T17:54:49Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:56:59Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T17:57:07Z TDog_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:57:32Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T17:59:07Z TDog_ quit (Excess Flood)
2014-10-30T17:59:23Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-30T17:59:55Z TDog_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:00:02Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:00:05Z MouldyOldBones quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:00:05Z McMAGIC--Copy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:00:05Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:00:23Z TDog_ is now known as TDog
2014-10-30T18:00:26Z codeburg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:02:01Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:15:14Z Hache_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:15:31Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T18:15:36Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:15:40Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-10-30T18:15:46Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:16:55Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:17:15Z loz joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:19:58Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:21:31Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:21:54Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:27:44Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:29:19Z BitPuffin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T18:33:43Z rjmacready_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2014-10-30T18:36:04Z ejbs joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:36:12Z ovenpasta1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:36:12Z ovenpasta quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-10-30T18:39:20Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:44:05Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:47:53Z wasamasa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:49:20Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:49:49Z Blaguvest joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:52:49Z ellis-a joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:53:54Z ellis-a quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T18:54:42Z ejbs` joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:56:27Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T18:58:58Z DrCode joined #lisp
2014-10-30T18:59:47Z ejbs`:  gg
2014-10-30T19:01:00Z wasamasa joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:01:12Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:01:22Z ejbs`: Won't (tail queue) always be new, regardless of the path taken in the if-form or am I missing something? http://paste.lisp.org/display/144221
2014-10-30T19:02:02Z DrCode quit (Excess Flood)
2014-10-30T19:03:05Z DrCode joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:03:14Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:10:26Z HOS_nerv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:11:17Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:12:04Z justinmburrous quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T19:12:48Z nand1` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T19:14:10Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T19:14:36Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:15:07Z pjb: ejbs`: how could we say? You don't define head, tail or queue!
2014-10-30T19:15:07Z nand1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:15:08Z Grue`: ejbs`: looks like it
2014-10-30T19:15:38Z Grue`: well, provided (tail queue) is a setfable place
2014-10-30T19:16:41Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:17:18Z resttime: why would a floating point operation not work when using x64 instead of x32?
2014-10-30T19:17:21Z ejbs`: pjb: Just structure objects and its 'slots' :), I felt like being a bit lazy (sorry!). Grue` Yeah, I've kinda wrapped my head around it now. It's basically pointer manipulation
2014-10-30T19:17:28Z pjb: While it would be a question of style,  You can write a setf-expander such as: (progn (setf (times x 2) 3)  (assert (= 3/2 x))).
2014-10-30T19:17:57Z resttime: something involving floating operations seems to break when I run the code on a 64bit lisp implementation
2014-10-30T19:18:12Z resttime: things work fine on 32bit
2014-10-30T19:18:14Z pjb: may happen.
2014-10-30T19:18:25Z pjb: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html   and   What Every Programmer Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://floating-point-gui.de/
2014-10-30T19:18:37Z resttime: but should it actually crash?
2014-10-30T19:18:45Z pjb: Preferably not.
2014-10-30T19:18:50Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:18:51Z pjb: Complain to your implementation vendor!
2014-10-30T19:19:06Z resttime: it's a problem across implemntations D:
2014-10-30T19:19:18Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:19:20Z Grue`: there are processor bugs sometimes ;)
2014-10-30T19:19:26Z pjb: I doubt all implementation will crash on the same sexp.
2014-10-30T19:19:30Z stassats: minion: advice on compiler?
2014-10-30T19:19:31Z minion: #12000: Looking for a compiler bug is the second-to-last resort. The last resort is blaming bad RAM. It's never the correct hypothesis.
2014-10-30T19:20:03Z resttime: i tested both SBCL and CCL x64
2014-10-30T19:20:12Z resttime: both crash when including the same thing
2014-10-30T19:20:15Z stassats: i don't see your code anywhere
2014-10-30T19:20:26Z Grue`: actually I had bad RAM happen to me, it caused some pretty weird shit
2014-10-30T19:20:44Z stassats: just mulling around the description of what happens wouldn't lead anywhere
2014-10-30T19:20:46Z pjb: wooow whooww wohoow I see the big is in your second subexpressions whoow wooow.
2014-10-30T19:21:02Z pjb: s/big/bug/
2014-10-30T19:21:35Z resttime: it's CFFI related
2014-10-30T19:21:38Z resttime: https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro/blob/master/allegro/types.lisp
2014-10-30T19:21:48Z resttime: type is the c-float
2014-10-30T19:21:52Z stassats: how does it crash?
2014-10-30T19:21:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: I'm trying to use lisp-unit with a function that returns multiple values. I was going to put all the values into a list, but that seems like a bad hack.
2014-10-30T19:22:03Z stassats: as i'm not going to run this code
2014-10-30T19:22:16Z przl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:22:18Z Petit_Dejeuner: Is there a trick I'm missing?
2014-10-30T19:22:36Z resttime: debugger invoked on "FLOATING-POINT-INVALID-OPERATION"
2014-10-30T19:22:46Z resttime: SBCL is that descriptive
2014-10-30T19:22:51Z stassats: so, there you go, it doesn't actually crash
2014-10-30T19:23:07Z stassats: you are performing an invalid operation
2014-10-30T19:24:11Z Grue`: Petit_Dejeuner: I think multiple-value-list with assert-equal is reasonable
2014-10-30T19:24:22Z resttime: hmmm, I guess what I don't understand is what is invalid
2014-10-30T19:24:27Z stassats: and by the way, (eq value 0) is not a great thing to do
2014-10-30T19:25:19Z stassats: dividing 0 by 0, e.g.
2014-10-30T19:25:47Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T19:25:59Z resttime: what would you suggest then?
2014-10-30T19:26:22Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:26:27Z resttime: adding 1 and then #'eq?
2014-10-30T19:26:43Z stassats: to what?
2014-10-30T19:26:54Z resttime: the value and then comparing with 1 instead
2014-10-30T19:27:16Z ejbs`` joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:27:26Z stassats: i don't get that, why?
2014-10-30T19:27:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: Grue`, Alright. It seems fine. Thanks
2014-10-30T19:27:54Z resttime: ah sorry i don't understand what you mean by "dividing by 0"
2014-10-30T19:28:15Z stassats: i said "dividing 0 by 0"
2014-10-30T19:28:29Z stassats: that gonna cause an invalid fp exception
2014-10-30T19:29:04Z jsnell: use = or eql instead of eq when dealing with numbers (and zerop when checking specifically for 0)
2014-10-30T19:29:17Z ejbs` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:29:19Z stassats: oh, yes, and (eq value 0) is unrelated to your problem
2014-10-30T19:29:29Z stassats: just a bad thing to do when writing portable code
2014-10-30T19:29:39Z resttime: alright thanks
2014-10-30T19:30:16Z stassats: but if you are using EQ, then EQL is probably what you want, not = or zerop
2014-10-30T19:30:42Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:30:49Z resttime: well back to original problem (float some-value 0f0) is a valid operation so I'm kinda stumped on this
2014-10-30T19:31:17Z stassats: it can overflow
2014-10-30T19:32:15Z stassats: is the error coming from (float some-value 0f0), though?
2014-10-30T19:32:24Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-10-30T19:32:37Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:32:47Z resttime: just running it normally doesn't break so I don't think so
2014-10-30T19:33:02Z stassats: you have a backtrace, don't you?
2014-10-30T19:36:33Z resttime: yeah CCL backtrace says it breaks on the function which uses those c-floats as parameters
2014-10-30T19:37:07Z resttime: also sorry, I'm not too familiar with using the backtrace
2014-10-30T19:37:25Z stassats: you can always paste them somewhere
2014-10-30T19:37:25Z resttime: not sure how to use this information to find the problem
2014-10-30T19:38:14Z sheilong joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:38:27Z Panicky quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T19:38:28Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:38:34Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144223
2014-10-30T19:39:40Z cy quit (Quit: :q!)
2014-10-30T19:41:39Z stassats: https://www.allegro.cc/manual/5/al_clear_to_color doesn't seem to match https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro/blob/ae091c7ae47d34ae0214a0ec14fbce69b539a4dd/allegro/ffi-functions/graphics.lisp#L59
2014-10-30T19:41:50Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:41:53Z ofosos quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:42:14Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T19:42:46Z resttime: it's properly matched locally
2014-10-30T19:42:59Z resttime: haven't commited it yet
2014-10-30T19:43:13Z stassats: not properly, apparently
2014-10-30T19:43:41Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:44:43Z ltbarcly quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T19:45:05Z resttime: the ALLEGRO_COLOR structure is something with 4 floats and splitting the parameter into 4 floats works on 32bit, but i guess that breaks on 64bit systems hmmm
2014-10-30T19:45:24Z resttime: would that be the reason?
2014-10-30T19:45:33Z fragamus joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:45:36Z stassats: don't you just call al_map_rgb_f?
2014-10-30T19:45:50Z resttime: that returns a structure by value
2014-10-30T19:46:24Z stassats: that's what you need, don't you?
2014-10-30T19:46:59Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:47:16Z resttime: i was hoping to be able to avoid that by reimplementing anything that uses ALLEGRO_COLOR into some native lisp code
2014-10-30T19:47:38Z stassats: you can allocate the structure by hand
2014-10-30T19:48:34Z resttime: i mean to avoid relying on CFFI-libffi
2014-10-30T19:49:09Z stassats: then you are out of luck
2014-10-30T19:49:18Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T19:49:35Z resttime: yeah i figured once you said that D:
2014-10-30T19:49:56Z Patzy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T19:50:54Z stassats: that ABI of passing four floats on x86-32 coincides with the structure layout is just dumb luck
2014-10-30T19:51:08Z stassats: *on some OS
2014-10-30T19:51:10Z stassats: and it will break everywhere else
2014-10-30T19:51:16Z resttime: hahaha
2014-10-30T19:51:41Z resttime: alright thanks for helping
2014-10-30T19:51:53Z resttime: time to bring in the cffi-libffi dependencies
2014-10-30T19:54:03Z stassats: and you can even say "on some OS with some set of libraries"
2014-10-30T19:54:25Z stassats: because, say, on ARM, there is two ways of passing floats
2014-10-30T19:55:08Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T19:55:29Z resttime: interesting
2014-10-30T19:56:25Z stassats: that's why there are two columns in http://sbcl.org/platform-table.html
2014-10-30T19:56:26Z resttime: well i still can remember the day when I came across this problem with 32bit and my CS teacher told me to try replacing with 4 floats
2014-10-30T19:56:49Z resttime: i was really surprised when it worked
2014-10-30T19:57:13Z stassats: it works until it doesn't
2014-10-30T19:59:56Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:02:03Z ynniv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:05:06Z nyef: ... armel and armhf? Which one of those is for big-endian systems and which for little-endian?
2014-10-30T20:05:33Z stassats: both... latter
2014-10-30T20:05:38Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:06:20Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:07:57Z cy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:10:42Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:12:44Z justinmburrous joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:16:37Z Ven joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:17:46Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T20:17:53Z justinmburrous quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:17:56Z ovenpasta1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:20:37Z justinmburrous joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:22:33Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T20:23:13Z ggole quit
2014-10-30T20:23:19Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:23:42Z justinmburrous quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T20:27:43Z haz__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:29:28Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:29:30Z Hache_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T20:32:02Z sismondi_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:32:49Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:33:15Z sismondi quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:33:15Z sismondi_ is now known as sismondi
2014-10-30T20:33:31Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T20:33:55Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-10-30T20:34:14Z cy quit (Quit: kernel update)
2014-10-30T20:34:25Z sheilong joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:34:28Z fragamus quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-10-30T20:35:36Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:36:11Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:37:39Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:39:30Z gf3 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:45:11Z leo2007 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T20:50:08Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:50:10Z Pullphinger quit
2014-10-30T20:51:24Z cy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:51:41Z malice joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:54:03Z slyrus__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T20:55:29Z slyrus_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T20:56:05Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:00:52Z Oberon4278 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:03:25Z ahungry_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-10-30T21:08:35Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T21:08:42Z cy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:10:35Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:10:43Z vlnx quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T21:12:18Z vlnx joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:14:01Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:18:44Z Rptx joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:18:54Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:19:05Z wooden quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:22:40Z ltbarcly quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T21:23:12Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:24:34Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:25:25Z sauerkrause joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:25:41Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2014-10-30T21:27:51Z haz__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:29:15Z nug700 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:29:22Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:29:49Z cy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:30:04Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:30:16Z slyrus__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:30:38Z slyrus__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:31:28Z wooden joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:31:28Z wooden quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T21:31:28Z wooden joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:31:56Z proq joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:34:20Z clapautius joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:43:34Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:44:17Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T21:46:55Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:49:20Z Ethan- joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:49:41Z Vutral is now known as bambi
2014-10-30T21:49:54Z bambi is now known as Vutral
2014-10-30T21:50:24Z Vutral is now known as bambi^
2014-10-30T21:51:03Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2014-10-30T21:51:43Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:52:33Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2014-10-30T21:53:39Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-10-30T21:54:01Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-10-30T21:54:51Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:55:09Z HOS_nerv quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T21:56:30Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T21:56:52Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T21:57:13Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T21:57:28Z cracauer: Is there some usable Common Lisp for Android?
2014-10-30T21:57:36Z stassats: define usable
2014-10-30T21:57:44Z cracauer: I would like to run generic CL code, with an editor the input expressions
2014-10-30T21:57:57Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T21:58:01Z cracauer: and the output should be presented in an object-grab-able form like Symbolics Genera
2014-10-30T21:58:02Z stassats: then, not really
2014-10-30T21:58:02Z cracauer: haha
2014-10-30T21:58:16Z Houl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T21:58:35Z cracauer: I also thought it would be cool if there was a gui that would know about keyword arguments and creates a dialog box
2014-10-30T21:58:46Z nyef: So... CLIM?
2014-10-30T21:59:03Z cracauer: CLIM does the latter>
2014-10-30T21:59:05Z cracauer: ?
2014-10-30T21:59:36Z nyef: Probably not by default, but it's the kind of thing that shouldn't be too hard to add.
2014-10-30T21:59:37Z cracauer: Would have come in handy in recent car negotiations instead of dragging a laptop around.
2014-10-30T21:59:47Z cracauer: Well on Android :-)
2014-10-30T22:00:06Z antoszka: cracauer: There's LispWorks for Android in the pipeline, you can probably ask for a private preview/beta, and there's MoCL from Wukix.com.
2014-10-30T22:00:33Z cracauer: is mocl that $500 thing?
2014-10-30T22:00:36Z antoszka: cracauer: You can find LispWorks Othello demo app in the play store, it's actually got a REPL you can play with.
2014-10-30T22:00:43Z stassats: $199 thing
2014-10-30T22:00:54Z antoszka: yeah, more like that
2014-10-30T22:00:56Z kyl_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:01:13Z Shinmera: MOCL won't give you a usable REPL on android though.
2014-10-30T22:01:14Z cy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T22:01:16Z akkad: http://linbsd.org/clhs.org complete?
2014-10-30T22:01:18Z antoszka: but there are some levels (differing in availability of sauce code and support)
2014-10-30T22:01:28Z akkad: mocl was sort of underwhelming
2014-10-30T22:01:31Z LoicLisp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T22:01:34Z akkad: for $200
2014-10-30T22:02:49Z nyef: Do CCL or SBCL run on Android with some level of UI these days?
2014-10-30T22:03:02Z cracauer: It has always been touch to right-price Common Lisp implementations :-)
2014-10-30T22:03:06Z cracauer: tough
2014-10-30T22:03:13Z stassats: nyef: hunchentoot + browser
2014-10-30T22:03:25Z stassats: nyef: and clim, of course
2014-10-30T22:03:38Z stassats: but, you can guess how that works out
2014-10-30T22:03:56Z cracauer: does CLIM work through hünchentod?
2014-10-30T22:05:35Z wws-ubuntu_ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:05:47Z cracauer gets a smaller thinkpad
2014-10-30T22:06:25Z ynniv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:07:14Z billstclair quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T22:08:28Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:08:58Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:12:02Z corni joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:12:02Z corni quit (Changing host)
2014-10-30T22:12:02Z corni joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:12:10Z Ryan_Burnside: I assumed Armed Bear Common Lisp might work because it can run in the JVM. But I'm not sure.
2014-10-30T22:12:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:12:41Z zickzackv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:12:47Z Levenshtein_ left #lisp
2014-10-30T22:13:53Z Ryan_Burnside: My gripe with Android is that it favors Java to the point of pushing more traditional languages out.
2014-10-30T22:16:00Z akkad: jni...
2014-10-30T22:16:04Z akkad: + ecl
2014-10-30T22:16:24Z rme joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:16:35Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2014-10-30T22:16:41Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:16:45Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:16:54Z linux_dream: hello lisp coders, I have a question
2014-10-30T22:17:03Z nyef: Ryan_Burnside: It's worse than that, it's not even a Java VM, it's some other bytecode.
2014-10-30T22:17:10Z linux_dream: I am trying to learn some lisp (1st programming language) since a few minutes/hours
2014-10-30T22:17:27Z linux_dream: I do not understand why (length "(A B C)")    returns 7
2014-10-30T22:17:28Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T22:17:36Z linux_dream: can someone please explain ?
2014-10-30T22:17:47Z ynniv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:17:57Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:18:02Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:18:04Z linux_dream: I tried:   (length "(A (nil) B C)")   and it returns 13.   I do not understand the logic
2014-10-30T22:18:15Z GlassOctober joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:18:21Z nyef: It's a string of characters, not a list.
2014-10-30T22:18:30Z linux_dream: I see
2014-10-30T22:18:36Z linux_dream: so I'd have to remove the "'s signs?
2014-10-30T22:18:43Z linux_dream: if I do so, I get an error...
2014-10-30T22:18:48Z H4ns: linux_dream: try (length '(a b c))
2014-10-30T22:18:53Z GlassOctober is now known as cy
2014-10-30T22:19:05Z nyef: Right, clearly you should be reading a tutorial at this point.
2014-10-30T22:19:11Z linux_dream: thank you H4ns ... that worked
2014-10-30T22:19:21Z linux_dream: I am following a book but it doesn't teach the syntax
2014-10-30T22:19:22Z jkaye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-10-30T22:19:25Z linux_dream: only the ideas
2014-10-30T22:19:34Z nyef: Then said book is at the wrong level for you right now.
2014-10-30T22:19:43Z H4ns: minion: gentle
2014-10-30T22:19:44Z minion: gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2014-10-30T22:19:45Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:19:46Z linux_dream: I am not sure, I could do the exercises
2014-10-30T22:20:03Z linux_dream: they are logical ones, no coding at all.  I am using clisp to try the stuff out even though the book does not ask for it
2014-10-30T22:20:06Z nyef: Or you're not yet at the part of the book that introduces the syntax.
2014-10-30T22:20:09Z ynniv: When they said “quote (A (nil) B C)”, they didn’t mean in quotation marks
2014-10-30T22:20:29Z linux_dream: they did not used quotes ynniv
2014-10-30T22:20:52Z Shinmera: Ryan_Burnside: Android uses the Dalvik VM, not the JVM.
2014-10-30T22:20:53Z linux_dream: they use drawings
2014-10-30T22:21:03Z Shinmera: Ryan_Burnside: I have no idea how far compatible the two are, if at all.
2014-10-30T22:21:14Z linux_dream: ( ) (insert picture of box with LENGTH  here)   0
2014-10-30T22:21:28Z linux_dream: that's how the book teaches so far.  so no syntax at all
2014-10-30T22:21:34Z ynniv: linux_dream: I was guessing that someone said to quote the expression, so you added quotation marks
2014-10-30T22:21:47Z linux_dream: yes I added the quotation mark because I found them in google
2014-10-30T22:22:04Z ynniv: but they meant to prepend an apostrophy, or use (quote ….)
2014-10-30T22:22:04Z linux_dream: but anyway, I didn't know the correct syntax was given by H4ns
2014-10-30T22:22:17Z linux_dream: I would never have guessed it
2014-10-30T22:22:39Z linux_dream: (length '(a b c))   :)
2014-10-30T22:23:33Z linux_dream: so thx.. I'm back to the book now
2014-10-30T22:24:18Z cracauer: (type-of "(A (nil) B C)")
2014-10-30T22:24:24Z cracauer: would also have helped you
2014-10-30T22:24:25Z kyl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:24:34Z cracauer: of some object doesn't behave the way you want
2014-10-30T22:25:04Z PuercoPop: linux_dream: The first part is pen and pencil.
2014-10-30T22:25:33Z linux_dream: yes PuercoPop .  I still wanted to check if I could do the examples with the terminal also
2014-10-30T22:27:02Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:27:21Z ynniv: I just ran into (getf '(x 2 y 4 z 3) 'y) in the PCL book. Being somewhat more familiar with scheme and association lists, this is strange to me. Are plists a common CL idiom?
2014-10-30T22:27:25Z loz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:29:29Z Shinmera: Both are used.
2014-10-30T22:30:19Z ynniv: Is there a place for each, or are they personal choice?
2014-10-30T22:30:33Z Shinmera: Well, keyword arguments are essentially a plist.
2014-10-30T22:30:37Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T22:30:45Z Shinmera: Other than that, as a data structure, it's just preference / what looks better.
2014-10-30T22:31:03Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:33:18Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2014-10-30T22:33:36Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:36:01Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:37:10Z Kanae quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:39:00Z ack006 joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:39:07Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T22:39:37Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:40:20Z pavelpenev quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:40:32Z ejbs`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:40:41Z pavelpenev joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:42:49Z alpert joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:43:13Z alpert is now known as Guest2515
2014-10-30T22:43:51Z Guest2515 quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T22:46:10Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:49:11Z przl joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:51:44Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:52:14Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:53:08Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-10-30T22:54:01Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T22:59:37Z cy quit (Quit: brb)
2014-10-30T23:00:20Z oleo is now known as Guest56778
2014-10-30T23:01:14Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T23:01:36Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:01:38Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:02:01Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:02:09Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:03:38Z Guest56778 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:04:36Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:06:19Z resttime: can i get a check on this code? http://paste.lisp.org/display/144226
2014-10-30T23:06:23Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:06:40Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:06:41Z resttime: it compiles fine for SBCL
2014-10-30T23:06:49Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T23:06:54Z stassats: that's one ugly code
2014-10-30T23:06:59Z resttime: yeah
2014-10-30T23:07:26Z resttime: it's rewritten of that one you (and few others?) helped me long time ago with to deal with all cases
2014-10-30T23:07:39Z resttime: i'm going to try and resubmit pull request
2014-10-30T23:07:42Z stassats: don't do that, just write N versions of different functions
2014-10-30T23:08:21Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-30T23:09:24Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:11:43Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-10-30T23:12:43Z resttime: it might have been rejected on the grounds that it didn't check for redirection
2014-10-30T23:13:19Z stassats: i reject it because i want to sleep at night, and that code would give me nightmares
2014-10-30T23:13:23Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:14:02Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv)
2014-10-30T23:16:34Z resttime: alright, i'll split SBCL from the bunch then
2014-10-30T23:17:22Z stassats: no, split them all, they are not similar enough to share anything
2014-10-30T23:18:03Z stassats: basically each line is different
2014-10-30T23:18:23Z resttime: hmmmm okay then
2014-10-30T23:18:49Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:20:54Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:22:13Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T23:24:52Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:27:09Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:29:51Z lberk left #lisp
2014-10-30T23:30:00Z Qudit2 left #lisp
2014-10-30T23:30:13Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:31:43Z adlai joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:33:33Z theotherstupidgu quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-10-30T23:34:58Z bambi^ is now known as Vutral
2014-10-30T23:35:36Z AeroNotix quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:37:09Z resttime: this should be it i think http://paste.lisp.org/display/144228
2014-10-30T23:37:43Z AeroNotix joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:38:14Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:38:15Z McMAGIC--Copy joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:38:24Z stassats: did you know: (not (string= "")) == (string/= "")
2014-10-30T23:38:40Z resttime: now i do lol :D
2014-10-30T23:38:54Z stassats: and running (can-redirect-output-p) each time is not a good idea
2014-10-30T23:39:04Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:39:04Z stassats: and there may be no "echo" command
2014-10-30T23:40:51Z resttime: can-redirect-output-p only ones once i think
2014-10-30T23:41:02Z resttime: when CFFI-libffi compiles things with gcc
2014-10-30T23:41:07Z stassats: that doesn't appear to be the case
2014-10-30T23:41:37Z resttime: oh, i thought %invoke was only called once ever
2014-10-30T23:42:45Z resttime: i guess i can set a flag constant with an eval-when
2014-10-30T23:42:59Z resttime: not sure what to do about echo though
2014-10-30T23:43:20Z zxq9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-10-30T23:43:33Z resttime: because one has to test a stream output of something, unless there's something i'm missing there too
2014-10-30T23:44:04Z stassats: maybe just don't?
2014-10-30T23:44:38Z stassats: and you can abstract away the (loop for char = (read-char process-stream nil) while char do (write-char char s)) bit
2014-10-30T23:45:02Z stassats: and (close stream) just like that doesn't inspire any confidence
2014-10-30T23:45:33Z resttime: i couldn't find any equivalents of process-close in those implementations while i was looking at documentation
2014-10-30T23:46:05Z stassats: nor process-close
2014-10-30T23:46:13Z stassats: i mean, will it always be called?
2014-10-30T23:46:54Z stassats: and is calling process-close before process-wait really working?
2014-10-30T23:48:02Z dagnachew joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:51:37Z resttime: so a process-kill would be a better choice?
2014-10-30T23:52:30Z stassats: what happens when there is an error before you get chance to call CLOSE?
2014-10-30T23:52:31Z resttime: i don't really see any other way to close streams
2014-10-30T23:53:10Z resttime: oh so you mean unwind protect it
2014-10-30T23:53:52Z ynniv joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:54:25Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-10-30T23:54:28Z resttime: hmmm so good practices when dealing with streams is to always have it closed in the end if it goes wrong
2014-10-30T23:56:20Z ynniv quit (Client Quit)
2014-10-30T23:56:35Z miql joined #lisp
2014-10-30T23:57:34Z joneshf-laptop quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-30T23:59:16Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)