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2014-10-27T03:57:23Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2014-10-27T03:58:52Z pillton: Good morning beach.
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2014-10-27T04:22:38Z mikaelj: good morning, beach.
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2014-10-27T05:22:02Z beach: Now I am thinking that the sandboxing problem has an easy solution with first-class environments.
2014-10-27T05:22:22Z beach: Sorry, first-class GLOBAL environments.
2014-10-27T05:23:28Z beach: So, I see more and more advantages with first-class global environments.
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2014-10-27T05:32:25Z jusss: how to define a variable in sbcl ?
2014-10-27T05:32:40Z jusss: defun or setq or what ?
2014-10-27T05:32:55Z jusss: not in top-level
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2014-10-27T05:35:43Z beach: jusss: LET
2014-10-27T05:35:48Z beach: clhs let
2014-10-27T05:35:49Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm
2014-10-27T05:37:58Z jusss: beach: not others except let?
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2014-10-27T05:39:55Z beach: clhs let*
2014-10-27T05:39:55Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm
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2014-10-27T05:40:47Z beach: There are many others that define variables implicitly.
2014-10-27T05:41:17Z beach: clhs with-open-file
2014-10-27T05:41:17Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_open.htm
2014-10-27T05:42:37Z beach: And these are not specific to SBCL.  They are Common Lisp operators.
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2014-10-27T05:45:02Z pjb: jusss: you can define global special variables with defvar or defparameter.
2014-10-27T05:45:24Z pjb: jusss: there are libraries to define global lexical variables too, deflex or defglobal.
2014-10-27T05:46:15Z pjb: but if you don't want to do it on toplevel, then it's let, let*, progv, prog, prog* or lambda.
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2014-10-27T05:59:34Z beach: jusss: Maybe you should tell us what problem you are trying to solve.  That way it might be easier to give you the right advice.
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2014-10-27T06:06:02Z jusss: beach: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8699342/
2014-10-27T06:09:23Z jusss: pjb: (defvar c (+ a b)) why echo error?
2014-10-27T06:10:01Z jusss: just define a variable, not eval
2014-10-27T06:12:06Z pjb: defun, defvar and defparameter (all the def* forms actually) are designed to be used as toplevel forms.
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2014-10-27T06:12:24Z pjb: If you use them inside a defun, you most certainly won't get what you think you will get.
2014-10-27T06:13:00Z pjb: You can use (defvar *c*) to define the variable *c*, without evaluating an initial value.
2014-10-27T06:13:49Z pjb: jusss: you can use labels or flet to define local functions.
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2014-10-27T06:32:01Z beach: jusss: What pjb says.  Use LET to define local variables.  Use LABELS or FLET to define local functions.
2014-10-27T06:32:25Z beach: minion: Please tell jusss about PCL.
2014-10-27T06:32:25Z minion: jusss: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2014-10-27T06:36:08Z beach: So if we allow type proclamations of undefined functions, it is fair to say that that is exactly what the compiler does in the compilation environment when it sees a DEFUN form?
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2014-10-27T06:37:22Z beach: I am saying that because according to the Common Lisp HyperSpec, declarations of function types determine how the function is intended to be called, and that seems to be exactly the information that is required to check that a call to it has the right shape.
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2014-10-27T06:45:59Z Zhivago: Well, whitespace is significant in most languages, as a separator, at least.
2014-10-27T06:46:58Z beach: Zhivago: ?
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2014-10-27T06:47:30Z Zhivago: Oops, wrong channel.
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2014-10-27T07:14:37Z beach: Time to get to work.  I'll read the logs in case anyone has remarks about FTYPE.
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2014-10-27T07:39:32Z majere: What should I go with for a compiler/environment on OSX for Lisp?
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2014-10-27T07:40:48Z dizco: SBCL/Quicklisp I'd reckon.
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2014-10-27T08:13:24Z pjb: minion memo for majere: on MacOSX, ccl has a lot of advantages over sbcl.
2014-10-27T08:13:39Z pjb: minion memo for majere: You can get it (ClosureCL) from the appstore.
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2014-10-27T08:31:43Z chitofan: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144174
2014-10-27T08:31:47Z chitofan: did i make a mistake somewhere?
2014-10-27T08:32:00Z chitofan: move-grid-left changes the grid value for good
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2014-10-27T08:33:16Z pjb: chitofan: yes you did.  You didn't write a docstring with the specifications of your function.
2014-10-27T08:33:54Z pjb: (otherwise, temp is useless).
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2014-10-27T08:34:14Z chitofan: why!!
2014-10-27T08:34:22Z chitofan: sorry forgot to write my docstring
2014-10-27T08:34:31Z mal_: and using NTH isn't going to do wonders for your efficiency. you've just turned O(n) into O(n^2)
2014-10-27T08:34:34Z chitofan: though, i thought you do that after you confirm that the function works the way you want
2014-10-27T08:34:36Z pjb: variables are names.  A rose by another name would still smell as good.
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2014-10-27T08:35:13Z pjb: A function without a docstring containing the specification of the function ALWAYS works the way it works!
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2014-10-27T08:37:08Z mal_: you might want something like (mapcar #'move-row-left grid)
2014-10-27T08:38:24Z chitofan: i just figured that out
2014-10-27T08:38:25Z chitofan: lol
2014-10-27T08:38:33Z chitofan: thanks though :)
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2014-10-27T08:46:46Z schjetne: I'm implementing JSON Web Tokens if anyone is interested in that kind of thing: https://github.com/gschjetne/cljwt
2014-10-27T08:47:09Z schjetne: Will probably be integrated as a Clack middleware at some point too
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2014-10-27T11:37:53Z flip214: what's the variable that holds the value I'm currently inspecting via swank?
2014-10-27T11:38:06Z flip214: I'd like to run a few functions, like (print *) ...
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2014-10-27T11:54:37Z pjb: flip214: you'd have to have a look at the sources of swank.
2014-10-27T11:55:38Z flip214: yeah, right. I'd thought someone would just know the answer.
2014-10-27T11:56:25Z pjb: flip214: Having looked at the sources of swank right now, it seems that it's stored in (swank:istate-object swank:*istate*)
2014-10-27T11:57:14Z pjb: That is, (swank::istate.object swank::*istate*)
2014-10-27T11:57:31Z flip214: undefined function: SWANK::ISTATE-OBJECT
2014-10-27T11:57:35Z flip214: ah, "."
2014-10-27T11:57:39Z pjb: Yes, they put a conc-name.
2014-10-27T11:57:59Z flip214: sorry, wrong thread.... "The value NIL is not of type SWANK::ISTATE."
2014-10-27T11:58:05Z flip214: is bound in a different thread.
2014-10-27T11:58:14Z pjb: I tried e in the *slime-inspector*.
2014-10-27T11:58:15Z flip214: same problem with swank::*inspector-history*
2014-10-27T11:58:56Z flip214: perhaps some per-connection entry should hold that.
2014-10-27T11:59:14Z pjb: But it also works from the REPL.
2014-10-27T11:59:56Z pjb: You can do in the REPL: (swank::inspect-object 33) (swank::istate.object swank::*istate*)
2014-10-27T12:00:18Z pjb: If you go back to the *slime-inspector*, type g to update the view.
2014-10-27T12:02:27Z flip214: pjb: I'd like to use the thing I'm viewing in the inspector in the REPL.
2014-10-27T12:02:43Z pjb: It works for me in ccl.
2014-10-27T12:02:53Z pjb: read the code of swank::inspect-object.
2014-10-27T12:03:26Z flip214: hmmm, currently updating quicklisp dists.
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2014-10-27T12:08:38Z PuercoPop: flip214: doesn't M-Ret places the object in the REPL?
2014-10-27T12:09:03Z flip214: PuercoPop: at least not with vim and slimv ;)
2014-10-27T12:10:18Z flip214: pjb: (swank::istate.object swank::*istate*) seems to work (now), thanks a lot.
2014-10-27T12:10:22Z PuercoPop: idk about slimv, isn't there a way to list the keybindings that apply to the window in vim?
2014-10-27T12:10:41Z flip214: PuercoPop: ":nmap" is one way.
2014-10-27T12:10:45Z flip214: never mind.
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2014-10-27T13:30:02Z hitecnologys: Xach: I remember you were doing some kind of wrapper or server for Minecraft. Still working on that?
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2014-10-27T13:43:34Z Xach: hitecnologys: the idea is still in my head, but i have not been working on it.
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2014-10-27T13:49:01Z hitecnologys: Xach: I am planning on returning to active development of JAMS soon. I was thinking about joining our efforts since we practically want the same thing, if I correctly interpreted your idea.
2014-10-27T13:49:26Z Xach: I wish I had some effort to contribute!
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2014-10-27T13:54:22Z hitecnologys: I've almost got all low-level code covered (which is networking, players management and stuff) and it works quite reliably and it is almost completely documented in docstrings. You can start writing something like map handling or whatever you like since there's not much of high-level code to handle gameplay.
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2014-10-27T13:55:46Z hitecnologys: I'm going to start working on adding support for 1.8 protocol (which is 47 version of it) and then I'll switch to improving API for gameplay handling code. In case you decide to work on it, feel free to contribute.
2014-10-27T13:56:13Z Xach: ok! thanks!
2014-10-27T13:56:27Z dlowe: IIRC, there was some messiness with third-party servers not handling water pushing items.
2014-10-27T13:56:41Z dlowe: Is that still an issue?
2014-10-27T13:56:52Z hitecnologys: No, not an issue anymore.
2014-10-27T13:57:56Z hitecnologys: That was long ago and only with some servers. Bukkit (or CraftBukkit at that time, or hey0 admin mod before these times) always handled it properly, if memory serves.
2014-10-27T13:58:40Z hitecnologys: There were always lighting and chuck loading issues though. Some of them are still here due to bugs in client.
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2014-10-27T14:02:13Z dlowe: Interesting.
2014-10-27T14:02:28Z dlowe: Isn't Bukkit a mod of the stock server, though?
2014-10-27T14:03:38Z hitecnologys: It's not anymore. It's predecessor used to be mod for original server.
2014-10-27T14:04:04Z hitecnologys: Then codebase was rewritten and everything became a mess.
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2014-10-27T14:06:09Z hitecnologys: Though, I might be wrong. I do not remember exactly what happened.
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2014-10-27T14:55:44Z jusss: (defmacro test2 (a b c) `(,a ,b ,c))
2014-10-27T14:55:54Z jusss: (test2 + 1 1)
2014-10-27T14:56:00Z jusss: 2
2014-10-27T14:56:09Z jusss: why ?
2014-10-27T14:56:29Z mal_: what did you expect as result?
2014-10-27T14:56:41Z jusss: expect (+ 1 1)
2014-10-27T14:56:44Z oGMo: then you wanted defun
2014-10-27T14:57:01Z Hache: or `(list ,a ,b ,c)
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2014-10-27T14:57:22Z oGMo: macros expand and the result is then evaluated
2014-10-27T14:57:36Z jusss: (defmacro test-macro (a)
2014-10-27T14:57:36Z jusss:   `(,@a))
2014-10-27T14:57:47Z jusss: (test-macro '(+ 2 2))
2014-10-27T14:57:47Z jusss: (+ 2 2)
2014-10-27T14:57:56Z jusss: and why it's not 4?
2014-10-27T14:58:02Z oGMo: jusss: you quoted (+ 2 2)
2014-10-27T14:58:05Z oGMo: try without the quote
2014-10-27T14:58:37Z oGMo: at this point you should be reading an intro book or looking into exactly how reading and evaluation works
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2014-10-27T14:59:19Z oGMo: er. wait. you quoted that. that should not produce that result
2014-10-27T14:59:51Z oGMo: apparently i need more coffee
2014-10-27T14:59:58Z jusss: if the parameter for test-macro without quote, it eq (test-macro 4)?
2014-10-27T15:02:39Z oleo: (defmacro test3 (a b c) `(list ',a ',b ',c))
2014-10-27T15:03:08Z Hache: (macroexpand '(test-macro (+ 2 2))) => (+ 2 2) => 4
2014-10-27T15:03:10Z Hache: (macroexpand '(test-macro '(+ 2 2))) => '(+ 2 2) => (+ 2 2)
2014-10-27T15:03:37Z oleo: (test3 + 1 1)
2014-10-27T15:05:18Z oleo: or (defmacro test2 (a b c) `(list ,a ,b ,c)) and (test2 '+ '1 '1) or (test2 '+ 1 1)
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2014-10-27T17:45:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: When I use SLIME I'm loading code into an image, and when I make a binary it's just an image with an entrance function?
2014-10-27T17:46:45Z dlowe: pretty much
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2014-10-27T18:00:16Z Grue`: not sure what SLIME has to do with any of it though
2014-10-27T18:01:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: Grue`, In any REPL it would be the same, right? SLIME is just one of them.
2014-10-27T18:01:48Z Petit_Dejeuner: er, well, an easy way of using the repl
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2014-10-27T18:03:27Z Grue`: that's how Lisp works in general
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2014-10-27T18:13:22Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: there are implementations that don't work that way (ecl, abcl come to mind) but that's how traditional lisps work
2014-10-27T18:16:25Z moore33: How is ecl different? Do you mean in terms of building an "image?"
2014-10-27T18:16:28Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: also note that compiling and loading are separate steps
2014-10-27T18:16:45Z jasom: moore33: yes; ecl doesn't let you just dump the current image; instead you build an image from the fasls
2014-10-27T18:17:07Z jasom: moore33: there is an asdf operation that does all that automatically for you.
2014-10-27T18:17:21Z Petit_Dejeuner: Eh, I never got an IRC bouncer, so I'll be back to talk soon.
2014-10-27T18:17:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: Thanks for the help.
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2014-10-27T18:18:05Z moore33: jasom: Interesting to know.
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2014-10-27T18:25:12Z jasom: moore33: also it generates images that are about 10x smaller (including libecl.so) and 1000x slower to startup compared to sbcl
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2014-10-27T18:27:08Z moore33: jasom: Is that because the load-time forms are re-run when the image is started?
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2014-10-27T18:27:54Z jasom: moore33: I don't know the details, but I would guess that; it works by compiling each lisp file down to a C style .o file, and I think the entire runtime still needs to be initialized from saved executables with it.
2014-10-27T18:28:00Z BitPuffin: jasom: isn't ecl sort of a pain to work with?
2014-10-27T18:28:39Z jasom: BitPuffin: it was a long time ago, but their ASDF integration is great now.  You can literally use a single asdf command to save an executable
2014-10-27T18:28:59Z jasom: "create an executable with this system and that entry point" type thing
2014-10-27T18:29:24Z BitPuffin: hm
2014-10-27T18:29:25Z BitPuffin: cool
2014-10-27T18:29:41Z jasom: their slime debugging isn't as great as sbcl or ccl though
2014-10-27T18:29:42Z moore33: jasom: Ok. My sole experience with ecl is using maxima on Android, and there the startup time doesn't seem especially painful. That might all be linked into one executable.
2014-10-27T18:30:03Z BitPuffin: jasom: how is the image size in ccl compared to sbcl
2014-10-27T18:30:29Z jasom: BitPuffin: ccl is smaller than sbcl
2014-10-27T18:30:42Z BitPuffin: jasom: %?
2014-10-27T18:30:47Z BitPuffin: roughly
2014-10-27T18:30:50Z jasom: and startup time is similar.  For a while ccl won by a factor of 2 or 3 on startup time and now it's basically tied
2014-10-27T18:30:57Z jasom: BitPuffin: 1 sec
2014-10-27T18:31:04Z BitPuffin: oki
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2014-10-27T18:31:48Z jasom: 29M, 42M for a minimal, significant image on CCL
2014-10-27T18:31:57Z jasom: 50M 69M for sbcl
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2014-10-27T18:32:09Z BitPuffin: that's quite good
2014-10-27T18:32:12Z BitPuffin: I like ccl
2014-10-27T18:32:18Z BitPuffin: it works better on windows too I think
2014-10-27T18:32:20Z jasom: if you enable image compression, then sbcl gets about a 2x reduction in size, but at the cost of increased startup time
2014-10-27T18:32:30Z BitPuffin: ah
2014-10-27T18:32:35Z BitPuffin: yeah that you don't want
2014-10-27T18:32:36Z BitPuffin: :P
2014-10-27T18:32:41Z BitPuffin: well I guess it depends
2014-10-27T18:32:44Z jasom: and image compression doesn't work on windows
2014-10-27T18:32:57Z BitPuffin: right
2014-10-27T18:33:06Z BitPuffin: by the way
2014-10-27T18:33:07Z jasom: I got it to compile, but then it segfaulted
2014-10-27T18:33:17Z BitPuffin: is image based development the only way to implement lisp style restarts
2014-10-27T18:33:44Z jasom: obviously no, since ecl supports lisp style restarts
2014-10-27T18:33:48Z BitPuffin: ah
2014-10-27T18:33:55Z BitPuffin: and that doesn't do images
2014-10-27T18:34:00Z jasom: sort-of
2014-10-27T18:34:07Z BitPuffin: hmm, then how does it do it
2014-10-27T18:34:09Z jasom: it doesn't save images; it's still a dynamic image
2014-10-27T18:34:16Z BitPuffin: ah
2014-10-27T18:34:19Z BitPuffin: well that's what I mean
2014-10-27T18:34:20Z BitPuffin: like
2014-10-27T18:34:22Z BitPuffin: having an image in ram
2014-10-27T18:34:23Z jasom: you load code into your image, you just can't persist it.
2014-10-27T18:34:32Z BitPuffin: right
2014-10-27T18:34:35Z BitPuffin: that's what I was wondering
2014-10-27T18:34:39Z BitPuffin: not so much the persistence thing
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2014-10-27T18:34:58Z BitPuffin: I'm making my own lang and sort of wanted what lisp has in terms of restarts
2014-10-27T18:35:00Z jasom: I think that lisp style restarts would be fine in a more traditionally compiled language, but they would likely not be available at compile time.
2014-10-27T18:35:20Z BitPuffin: oh okay good
2014-10-27T18:35:45Z BitPuffin: The point of my language is that you can prototype in a lisp style and then can compile an even more optimized build
2014-10-27T18:35:55Z jasom: "The whole language is always available" could even be implemented without an image-based system, but it could be more confusing.
2014-10-27T18:36:04Z BitPuffin: well it's not the one point
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2014-10-27T18:36:08Z BitPuffin: it's just a thing I really want
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2014-10-27T18:36:29Z BitPuffin: also something I intend to have
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2014-10-27T18:36:46Z jasom: the CL standard already makes some provision for this, with the compile-time environment being restricted
2014-10-27T18:36:51Z BitPuffin: however be very aggressive with dead code elimination so that you don't have a compiler statically linked in all the time :P
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2014-10-27T18:37:26Z jasom: BitPuffin: lookup lisp and "tree-shaker" to see that idea applied to lisp
2014-10-27T18:38:04Z BitPuffin: lookup lisp? :P
2014-10-27T18:38:08Z jasom: You need to statically determine the set of possible functions passed to every FUNCALL and APPLY to do it right
2014-10-27T18:38:26Z jasom: BitPuffin: the two terms together; if you just search for "tree-shaker" you'll get ways of getting fruit off of trees
2014-10-27T18:39:03Z jasom:  (let* ((input (get-some-user-input)) (function-name (read-a-fn-name input))) (funcall function-name))
2014-10-27T18:39:20Z BitPuffin: right yeah I found it
2014-10-27T18:39:20Z jasom: if you have that code, then you can't safely eliminate any function from your image
2014-10-27T18:39:21Z BitPuffin: sure
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2014-10-27T18:39:34Z BitPuffin: though I don't think calling a function by string is all that  great
2014-10-27T18:40:00Z jasom: Well less evily, you may have a function that is passed in a function as an argument.  You need to now statically determine the set of all possible values for it.
2014-10-27T18:40:22Z BitPuffin: well
2014-10-27T18:40:32Z BitPuffin: you can pretty easily if it's the final release build
2014-10-27T18:40:56Z BitPuffin: you wouldn't do tree shaking when doing slime style development
2014-10-27T18:41:02Z jasom: also note it's by symbol, not by string in the earlier case...
2014-10-27T18:41:11Z BitPuffin: ah I see
2014-10-27T18:41:14Z BitPuffin: sorry
2014-10-27T18:41:29Z jasom: "pretty easily" is actually "possible, but hard in many cases; in other cases impossible"
2014-10-27T18:41:54Z BitPuffin: got an example?
2014-10-27T18:42:19Z francogrex: a program that loads a dll (like any lisp implementation through ffi) and uses the exported functions. Is there a way to have the lisp implementation do the same (dynamically export functions to be used by other software/processes. could be another lisp implementation for example...)?
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2014-10-27T18:43:34Z jasom: BitPuffin: you have a mapping from some sort of operations to the function implementation; you may modify this mapping at runtime; when the operation is invoked you lookup the corresponding function.
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2014-10-27T18:44:08Z BitPuffin: jasom: well now you are talking about at runtime
2014-10-27T18:44:11Z BitPuffin: I mean at compile time
2014-10-27T18:44:14Z jasom: All of those things I listed I've seen done in C.
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2014-10-27T18:44:24Z jasom: which is as static a language as you can get.
2014-10-27T18:44:55Z Shinmera: BitPuffin: so what the problem is you can't eliminate anything at compile time because you don't know what the run time might want to call.
2014-10-27T18:45:20Z jasom: If you disallow converting from symbols to functions, then you can at least eliminate functions that are not referred to by any call tree from the program entry-point
2014-10-27T18:45:28Z BitPuffin: Shinmera: not with funcall no, but with "regular" code
2014-10-27T18:45:34Z BitPuffin: then you can determine that well
2014-10-27T18:45:38Z BitPuffin: it's simply not possible
2014-10-27T18:45:43Z BitPuffin: and tree shake all you want
2014-10-27T18:45:56Z jasom: you can't not have FUNCALL
2014-10-27T18:45:57Z Shinmera: Funcall is very much part of regular code.
2014-10-27T18:46:14Z ggole: funcall isn't the problem
2014-10-27T18:46:18Z BitPuffin: that way the programmer just needs to be careful that if they don't want the compiler in the runtime then they don't write code that would require it
2014-10-27T18:46:26Z BitPuffin: well alright what I mean is arbitrary funcall
2014-10-27T18:46:46Z BitPuffin: like if you can see all the times funcall is called and it's never based on like parsing input then you can know
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2014-10-27T18:47:06Z ggole: You can still treeshake with funcall, it's just a function call
2014-10-27T18:47:18Z BitPuffin: yeah
2014-10-27T18:47:19Z BitPuffin: sorry
2014-10-27T18:47:21Z ggole: You have to do large analyses though
2014-10-27T18:47:24Z BitPuffin: right
2014-10-27T18:47:27Z ggole: (In the general case)
2014-10-27T18:47:36Z BitPuffin: well
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2014-10-27T18:47:45Z BitPuffin: you could also track that while you are compiling everything else
2014-10-27T18:48:10Z BitPuffin: just stupid pseudo code but like, setting a variable like can-tree-shake t
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2014-10-27T18:48:25Z BitPuffin: and then if you come across something when you are compiling that would change this you set it to nil
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2014-10-27T18:49:44Z BitPuffin: granted a rather naive approach
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2014-10-27T18:50:34Z jasom: hmm; I wonder if there would be interest in implementing a statically included image (de)compressor to sbcl instead of using zlib.
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2014-10-27T18:51:19Z BitPuffin: jasom: yeah why not
2014-10-27T18:51:41Z jasom: I'm thinking just pull in lz4 which is implemented in C and BSD licensed
2014-10-27T18:51:52Z BitPuffin: that's what I would do
2014-10-27T18:51:58Z BitPuffin: that is also great because it would speed up load time
2014-10-27T18:52:21Z BitPuffin: because it's so fast to decompress the bottleneck would still be the harddrive
2014-10-27T18:52:31Z BitPuffin: rather than clockcycles spent decompressing
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2014-10-27T18:52:58Z jasom: BitPuffin: well for startup times under 100ms you mainly care about repeated executables which means you hit the disk cache
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2014-10-27T18:55:48Z jasom: but IIRC decompression of the non HC version is around RAM speeds
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2014-10-27T19:01:22Z francogrex: something like a defcallback ?
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2014-10-27T20:05:54Z jasom: anyone have an order-of-magnitude estimate for time to build sbcl with --fancy?
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2014-10-27T20:06:58Z nyef: On SPARC? An hour.  On PPC? Half an hour for a G5, an hour for a G4. On x86? Fifteen minutes or less. And these are off-the-cuff figures, and may bear little relation to reality.
2014-10-27T20:06:58Z Grue`: should be like 10 minutes
2014-10-27T20:07:08Z jasom: nyef: thanks
2014-10-27T20:07:22Z jasom was just wondering "much less than an hour vs much more than an hour"
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2014-10-27T20:07:43Z Petit_Dejeuner: Only two speeds, decent and too slow.
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2014-10-27T20:07:55Z jasom: 4.5 minutes
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2014-10-27T20:18:38Z Xach: 3.25 minutes here
2014-10-27T20:19:20Z Shinmera: Benchmark your machine with the SBCL build.
2014-10-27T20:19:46Z jasom: the linux kernel used to be popular for that
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2014-10-27T20:20:49Z nyef: The linux kernel used to be popular as a system and RAM test.
2014-10-27T20:21:37Z nyef: Runs up the CPU load on as many cores as you have, uses up as much RAM as it can get, and does so for quite a while.
2014-10-27T20:21:57Z Ryan_Burnside: Protip: If anyone here starts making a Gimp plugin using scheme be sure not to call the REPL the REPL. You are supposed to call it a Script-Fu console.
2014-10-27T20:21:57Z minion: Ryan_Burnside, memo from pjb: and anyways, you can't beat Smalltalk on the meta-programming by adding/modifying methods on the classes (only perhaps the CLOS can claim to beat Smalltalk, but not historically, only technically now).
2014-10-27T20:22:44Z Grue`: Ryan_Burnside: well, it is a REPL
2014-10-27T20:22:48Z Ryan_Burnside: Apparently using the proper term is to be tossed aside for language abstraction.
2014-10-27T20:22:55Z jasom: lz4 compression is working with sbcl
2014-10-27T20:23:09Z jasom: that took me almost an entire hour
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2014-10-27T20:23:22Z Xach: Ryan_Burnside: In my experience, most of the script-fu hacking was done by people with little to no experience with scheme or lisp. The code was written like BASIC with parentheses.
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2014-10-27T20:23:36Z Xach: not script-fu itself, but the actual scripts distributed with gimp.
2014-10-27T20:23:52Z Xach wonders if xach-effect is still distributed with gimp these days
2014-10-27T20:24:05Z Grue`: my masterpiece https://github.com/tshatrov/scriptfu/blob/master/animstack.scm
2014-10-27T20:24:19Z Shinmera: Speaking of graphics tools, now that my Qtools lib is almost done I'm eager to get back to work on Parasol :)
2014-10-27T20:25:28Z Xach: Grue`: cool
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2014-10-27T20:26:46Z Petit_Dejeuner: Grue`, What does it do?
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2014-10-27T20:28:50Z Grue`: Petit_Dejeuner: everything!
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2014-10-27T20:31:37Z Ryan_Burnside: Xach, many of the people don't even realize that Script-Fu is a real time live environment.
2014-10-27T20:31:43Z Ryan_Burnside: All the scripts are run statically.
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2014-10-27T20:32:04Z Ryan_Burnside: However, I have a window into the repl which can act on the current layer and draw in real time for my LOGO like library.
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2014-10-27T21:19:01Z jasom: sbcl built with --fancy using lz4hc generates a minimal image at 19MB (vs 16MB for a --fancy using zlib) and loads in 60ms vs 200ms all while needing no external .dlls
2014-10-27T21:19:05Z jasom: that seems like a win to me.
2014-10-27T21:21:30Z jasom: with drakma loaded, the image grows to 23MB and loads in 75ms
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2014-10-27T21:31:18Z jasom: versus 18MB and 260ms
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2014-10-27T21:45:36Z Shinmera: Nice
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2014-10-27T22:02:07Z akkad: http://linbsd.org/clhs.org haha
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2014-10-27T23:22:34Z devon: Is there a prevailing filesystem API?
2014-10-27T23:22:48Z nyef: As in the sense of "prevailing wind"?
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2014-10-27T23:24:23Z jasom: devon: uiop
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2014-10-27T23:26:44Z devon: I see UIOP/FILESYSTEM:DELETE-DIRECTORY-TREE but no CREATE-DIRECTORY
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2014-10-27T23:29:17Z Xach: I think ensure-directories-exist is often used for that. I don't know if it has a uiop analogue.
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2014-10-27T23:33:21Z devon: So it does
2014-10-27T23:34:34Z nyef: ensure-directories-exist is an idempotent mkdir.
2014-10-27T23:34:42Z nyef: recursive mkdir, at that.
2014-10-27T23:36:14Z devon: (list (uiop/filesystem:ensure-all-directories-exist '("/tmp/new/")) (directory "/tmp/new"))
2014-10-27T23:36:14Z devon:       (NIL (#P"/tmp/new/"))
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