2014-10-03T00:00:54Z karswell` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:01:11Z SrPx_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:01:15Z SrPx_: I lost my connection, my bad... 2014-10-03T00:01:18Z |3b|: also, for best results you don't want 'reliable' networking for most things in fast games, you want "most recent available data", which also doesn't combine well with automatic transfer 2014-10-03T00:01:22Z SrPx_: [20:59] I was under the impression that you were sending deltas and maintaining shared game state already 2014-10-03T00:01:25Z |3b|: minion: tell SrPx about logs 2014-10-03T00:01:25Z minion: SrPx: please look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 2014-10-03T00:01:32Z SrPx_: . /\ that is what I am doing currently, yes. that was an idea 2014-10-03T00:02:12Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-10-03T00:02:46Z SrPx quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:03:12Z SrPx_: |3b|: hmm fair enough 2014-10-03T00:03:57Z SrPx_: I have tried too many things already... this last project was actually pretty acceptable if you think about it, 300x slower than GHC isn't thaaaat bad is it? lol 2014-10-03T00:04:01Z |3b|: pillton: cool, i had planned to make some more videos by now, but got pulled into a recursive yak-shaving loop :/ 2014-10-03T00:04:22Z |3b|: SrPx_: question is whether it is fast enough or not :p 2014-10-03T00:04:53Z SrPx_: no, but if I could make it 300x slower than GHC, I'm sure a proper team of engineers with enough investment and manpower could do something usable 2014-10-03T00:04:58Z |3b|: lots of games were written on slow BASICs on 8Mhz CPUs, i suspect you are faster than that :) 2014-10-03T00:05:00Z SrPx_: that is, the idea isn't that bad, is it. 2014-10-03T00:05:10Z SrPx_: |3b|: =) 2014-10-03T00:05:12Z |3b|: that's harder to answer 2014-10-03T00:05:30Z White_Flame: It all depends on how well this specific idea serves your specific game 2014-10-03T00:05:40Z pillton: |3b|: It is a great problem too. The last time I worked with OpenGL I wanted to do exactly that. The amount of time I wasted on all the shader crap was tremendous. 2014-10-03T00:05:46Z SrPx_: also, the fact that it is highly parallel is something. there are 3 or so synchronization points, if I had a processor with 512 cores right now I guess it would run faster than single core GHC 2014-10-03T00:06:00Z pillton: |3b|: I've never seen an industry have such contempt for its users. 2014-10-03T00:06:08Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:06:46Z |3b|: pillton: the shader compiler part you mean? 2014-10-03T00:07:28Z SrPx_: anyway, any suggestion on state of art garbage collection I can learn about? 2014-10-03T00:07:35Z pillton: |3b|: Yeah. I like the problem of hiding all of the OpenGL non-sense with something sensible. 2014-10-03T00:10:41Z CatMtKing joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:10:59Z White_Flame: SrPx_: google. There's tons of options 2014-10-03T00:11:40Z pillton: White_Flame: Having tons of options isn't necessarily a good thing. 2014-10-03T00:12:20Z White_Flame: I know. But the field of GC is fairly broad, with tons of variations 2014-10-03T00:12:46Z |3b|: not really something you can avoid though, lots of potentially conflicting considerations for GC design, so lots of 'state of the art' GCs 2014-10-03T00:13:25Z pillton: Another tick for computer science. 2014-10-03T00:14:18Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:14:47Z paddymahoney quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:15:11Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T00:16:49Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-10-03T00:18:08Z cneira joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:22:35Z Skrylar quit 2014-10-03T00:22:55Z pillton: |3b|: Ever thought of putting your mind to targetting NVIDIAs Paralllel Thread Execution ISA? 2014-10-03T00:27:12Z zz_karupa is now known as karupa 2014-10-03T00:27:37Z |3b|: pillton: i'd rather compile to something portable like glsl or opencl/spir 2014-10-03T00:29:40Z Jubb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:32:56Z pillton: Fair enough. 2014-10-03T00:34:25Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:35:09Z Jubb joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:39:27Z normanrichards quit 2014-10-03T00:40:22Z dfox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:43:42Z dfox joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:44:44Z leo2007 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T00:45:03Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:47:04Z nell joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:47:38Z |3b| finds another layer of yaks to shave or papers to read or whatever you call it :/ 2014-10-03T00:50:00Z [1]cneira joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:50:25Z |3b| just wanted something to test compute shaders with -> cellular automata -> smoothlife -> fft convolution -> reading a book about DSP -> computer tomography sounds like volume rendering -> fft volume rendering papers -> papers on frequency domain lighting/attenuation 2014-10-03T00:50:37Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:50:38Z Lycurgus quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T00:50:39Z pillton: Fortune produced this gem today: Some don't prefer the pursuit of happiness to the happiness of pursuit. 2014-10-03T00:51:21Z pillton: How did the FFT go? 2014-10-03T00:51:41Z |3b| is still reading about stuff, not actually implementing it :p 2014-10-03T00:52:01Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:52:41Z pillton: I'm using CUDA to perform mine at the moment as I needed to perform a lot in a short amount of time. CUDA certainly leaves FFTW behind. 2014-10-03T00:52:41Z CatMtKing quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T00:52:49Z tadni` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:52:51Z |3b|: cool 2014-10-03T00:53:01Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:53:02Z |3b|: what sort of performance are you getting? 2014-10-03T00:53:39Z cneira quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:53:40Z [1]cneira is now known as cneira 2014-10-03T00:53:55Z pillton: I can't remember the performance of the FFT, but my algorithm ended up being 15-20 times faster using CUDA. 2014-10-03T00:53:55Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-10-03T00:53:57Z tadni quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:56:21Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:57:13Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T00:59:20Z rme joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:02:00Z bege quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:05:31Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:07:16Z |3b|: cufft claims to do 512^3 FFT in 80-120ms, wonder how close i can get in glsl 2014-10-03T01:08:09Z bege_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:13:11Z defaultxr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T01:14:09Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:14:11Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:23:01Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:23:41Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-10-03T01:24:00Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:24:55Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-10-03T01:25:12Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:25:22Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:30:50Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:32:48Z rk[1] is now known as rk[pizza] 2014-10-03T01:33:55Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:34:31Z resttime_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:35:20Z huza joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:36:05Z huza quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T01:36:15Z huza joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:36:24Z fraytack` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:37:22Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:39:09Z resttime_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:43:17Z fraytack` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:43:49Z tadni` quit (Quit: Bedtime.) 2014-10-03T01:44:50Z zn quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:45:35Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:46:47Z White_Flame: it's so nice seeing map* based functions absolutely collapse in disassembly size when declared inline 2014-10-03T01:51:36Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:52:00Z cmack``` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:52:36Z zn joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:52:36Z zn quit (Changing host) 2014-10-03T01:52:36Z zn joined #lisp 2014-10-03T01:53:40Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T01:55:10Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:01:56Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2014-10-03T02:03:52Z huza quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T02:06:56Z huza joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:08:05Z harish joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:09:03Z ovidnis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:15:40Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2014-10-03T02:17:06Z huza joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:33:16Z Bike quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T02:33:22Z Bike_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:33:41Z Bike_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T02:33:52Z nonamae joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:33:54Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2014-10-03T02:34:23Z huza joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:36:13Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:44:21Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:46:58Z drmeister: I'm writing demos for Clasp Common Lisp/C++ interoperation. 2014-10-03T02:47:02Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-10-03T02:47:18Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/w1Rc1NEN 2014-10-03T02:47:47Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xDQy25oX 2014-10-03T02:48:23Z drmeister: The first paste is an C++ file with two functions, a helloWorld function and another that takes three doubles and adds them and returns the result. 2014-10-03T02:48:32Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:48:55Z drmeister: The second paste is a Common Lisp file that loads the C++ dynamic library and evaluates the C++ functions. 2014-10-03T02:49:49Z drmeister: It's a small, concise illustration of what I've been working on in Clasp. I'm curious to hear what people think of it. 2014-10-03T02:50:29Z drmeister: It's not an FFI like you are used to, the binding is done on the C++ side. 2014-10-03T02:50:35Z normanrichards quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T02:50:48Z White_Flame: I'm just thinking that there's no good way in Lisp in general to unload something, as "load" means "side effects go into my environment" 2014-10-03T02:50:51Z |3b|: drmeister: is ".bundle" a max thing or a clasp thing? 2014-10-03T02:51:13Z |3b|: *mac 2014-10-03T02:51:14Z drmeister: .bundle is an OS X thing. 2014-10-03T02:51:18Z drmeister: Yes. 2014-10-03T02:52:00Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-10-03T02:52:28Z drmeister: On OS X they distinguish between a .dylib file (like a .so file on linux) and a .bundle file. I never found a compelling explanation of the difference other than .bundle files are loaded with dlopen. 2014-10-03T02:53:05Z White_Flame: duplicated interfaces seems to be OSX's thing :-P 2014-10-03T02:53:57Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T02:59:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T03:00:20Z ThomasH quit (Quit: None) 2014-10-03T03:00:25Z vlnx quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T03:00:26Z drmeister: I'm writing a series of these and putting them on github 2014-10-03T03:01:22Z ovidnis quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-10-03T03:01:58Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:03:06Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:03:20Z vlnx joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:03:30Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T03:04:16Z MutSbeta quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-10-03T03:04:43Z pjb: White_Flame: you can just remove all references, and wait for the garbage collector to work. 2014-10-03T03:05:26Z pjb: drmeister: bundles are not files. 2014-10-03T03:05:30Z pjb: they are directories. 2014-10-03T03:06:29Z beach joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:06:43Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-10-03T03:08:10Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:08:45Z White_Flame: pjb: yeah, it's hard to know what references or callback hooks have been established by the code. If it does destructive updates to anything, you can't undo the "load" 2014-10-03T03:09:01Z White_Flame: hi 2014-10-03T03:10:16Z drmeister: pjb: There are two meanings of "bundle" in OS X. The meaning I'm using is less common than the one you are using. 2014-10-03T03:10:55Z drmeister: pbj: It's a type of shared library. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24519863/what-are-the-g-flags-to-build-a-true-so-mh-bundle-shared-library-on-mac-osx 2014-10-03T03:11:02Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T03:11:08Z drmeister: Hi beach. 2014-10-03T03:13:15Z pjb: drmeister: thanks for the info. Indeed, I didn't know that. 2014-10-03T03:14:51Z ovidnis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:16:54Z drmeister: pjb: No problem. Indeed, the more common usage of bundle makes it difficult to find information on the shared library kind of bundle. 2014-10-03T03:19:23Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-10-03T03:20:52Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2014-10-03T03:21:19Z zRecursive left #lisp 2014-10-03T03:25:17Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T03:35:43Z nerdbeard joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:36:24Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-10-03T03:36:53Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T03:36:56Z nerdbeard: Is this the right place for stupid noobs to ask stupid questions about stupid ("bogus stack frame") messages from sbcl? 2014-10-03T03:37:25Z nerdbeard: I ask for no reason at all. 2014-10-03T03:37:59Z beach: nerdbeard: You can try. There are some people here who know SBCL fairly well. 2014-10-03T03:39:13Z nerdbeard: I wrote my first program (renders freetype via opengl) and it works but it loads slow so I think maybe a core is the way to go, but loading the core always results in bus errors and segfaults and other scary things. I imagine it has something to do with using c libraries? 2014-10-03T03:39:20Z Bike: pasted code would help 2014-10-03T03:39:21Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T03:39:23Z Bike: yeah, probably 2014-10-03T03:42:01Z nerdbeard: Fair enough, here is the whole thing: http://pastebin.com/tf36VEik 2014-10-03T03:42:49Z jleija joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:42:53Z nerdbeard: All criticism welcome, it's the only lisp that wasn't an init.el I've written so far 2014-10-03T03:43:20Z nerdbeard: But like I have no idea why there would be anything dangerous in the core when I dump it immediately after loading that into a fresh image 2014-10-03T03:43:40Z ovidnis quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T03:44:10Z Bike: might be some c pointers or something, but that's basically a guess 2014-10-03T03:44:22Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T03:44:29Z Bike: you cl:require three different libraries, might be a good idea to use asdf so you do dependencies right 2014-10-03T03:45:07Z White_Flame: also, the GL libs might be doing some behind-the-scenes magic that isn't surviving a core dump & reload 2014-10-03T03:45:10Z nerdbeard: I've heard of those letters before. I'll look into it. 2014-10-03T03:45:30Z Bike: nothing strikes me as terrible here, though 2014-10-03T03:45:32Z nerdbeard: So maybe if I move the requires into the function body? Is that possible? 2014-10-03T03:45:49Z Bike: It is, but don't do that 2014-10-03T03:45:57Z nerdbeard: I didn't want to, I swear 2014-10-03T03:46:22Z Bike: do you know, like, C? putting require calls in your code is a bit like dlopening everything yourself, not much point 2014-10-03T03:47:22Z Bike: it probably just takes a while to load because of cl-opengl loading and such. have you tried dumping a core just after loading those three libraries? 2014-10-03T03:47:45Z nerdbeard: No and that'll be informational for sure 2014-10-03T03:49:32Z kristof joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:54:02Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:54:07Z nerdbeard: No good, same result 2014-10-03T03:55:10Z Bike: are you kidding, that's great! it means it's not your fault, and isn't that what's really important 2014-10-03T03:55:12Z nerdbeard: ./testcore --load play.lisp --eval '(mkp-play-gl-ft:main)' gives me a ("bogus stack frame") and no debug information. Oh well. 2014-10-03T03:55:20Z Bike: in other words, what white_flame said 2014-10-03T03:56:00Z dmiles_afk: will need to load a GL whatnot (example0 you should work once 2014-10-03T03:56:51Z dmiles_afk: will need to load a GL whatnot (example) you should work .. then try to do a hello world (one of the GL expanples again) that you compiled 2014-10-03T03:56:54Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T03:57:39Z nerdbeard: Hmm, yeah. 2014-10-03T03:58:13Z dmiles_afk: not that i am saying it's not a sbcl's bug, but you know these things are 2014-10-03T03:59:13Z nerdbeard: I've run into a few problems due to my platform having neither 'linux nor 'darwin bound and I wouldn't be surprised if there were compiler issues 2014-10-03T03:59:22Z nerdbeard: doesn't seem like it gets a lot of exercise on my platform 2014-10-03T03:59:22Z cneira quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T03:59:32Z Bike: bsd? 2014-10-03T03:59:34Z nerdbeard: yeah 2014-10-03T03:59:45Z Bike: well, in any case there's an #sbcl channel, they'd know more specifics. 2014-10-03T03:59:52Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T04:00:22Z nerdbeard: beauty. I'll try that in the morning and idle around for any other suggestions. Thanks for the tip about asdf, I'll look into it. 2014-10-03T04:00:27Z Bike: "save-lisp-and-die interacts with sb-alien:load-shared-object" oh, here we go 2014-10-03T04:00:37Z nerdbeard: Ahh 2014-10-03T04:00:57Z nerdbeard: Yeah, I saw that, it says that if there are no warnings (there weren't) you're fine 2014-10-03T04:01:06Z nerdbeard: At least I think that's what it's saying 2014-10-03T04:01:15Z Bike: yes, i see. probably good to ask the devs though. 2014-10-03T04:01:37Z |3b|: cl-opengl is supposed to survive saving a core, no idea about the other 2 libs though 2014-10-03T04:01:45Z |3b| hasn't tested it in ages though 2014-10-03T04:03:37Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-10-03T04:04:05Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T04:05:14Z protist joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:05:54Z lemoinem joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:06:05Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:08:28Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:10:01Z phao left #lisp 2014-10-03T04:10:50Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:11:51Z |3b|: nerdbeard: looks like cl-freetype2 always initializes the library 2014-10-03T04:12:32Z |3b|: nerdbeard: might try (setf freetype2:*library* nil) then (sb-ext:gc :full t) a few times before saving image 2014-10-03T04:12:56Z gingerale joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:14:48Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-03T04:14:59Z DTSCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:15:35Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T04:15:58Z nonamae quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T04:16:08Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-10-03T04:16:35Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-10-03T04:17:15Z DTSCode quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T04:17:59Z |3b|: nerdbeard: also, alexandria:read-file-into-string might simplify your load-shader 2014-10-03T04:20:21Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-03T04:27:38Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T04:31:31Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 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It depends on how your packages are set up 2014-10-03T10:26:18Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T10:26:20Z White_Flame: and note packages don't nest. Those are 2 separate packages; that they share a prefix in their name doesn't associate them 2014-10-03T10:27:28Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T10:27:51Z haom: White_Flame: well, thats what i asked. i have a symbol from package a.b.c visible in package a.b, and I dont know whether this is a bug or a feature. 2014-10-03T10:28:01Z haom: previously i also thought that package names dont nest. 2014-10-03T10:28:09Z H4ns: haom: what implementation do you use? 2014-10-03T10:28:16Z haom: sbcl 2014-10-03T10:28:30Z H4ns: haom: what do you mean by "visible"? 2014-10-03T10:28:31Z haom: (1.1.10) 2014-10-03T10:28:36Z White_Flame: I doubt it's a package bug, given the maturity there 2014-10-03T10:28:54Z White_Flame: also, your sbcl version is getting outdated 2014-10-03T10:29:04Z haom: H4ns, i can access symbols from package a.b.c while i'm in package a.b. 2014-10-03T10:29:15Z White_Flame: via a.b.c:name? 2014-10-03T10:29:25Z H4ns: haom: what do you mean by "can access symbols" precisely? use paste.lisp.org to illustrate 2014-10-03T10:29:31Z haom: no, via a.b:name 2014-10-03T10:29:45Z White_Flame: does one package :use the other? 2014-10-03T10:29:52Z haom: no. 2014-10-03T10:30:00Z White_Flame: going to need to see an example 2014-10-03T10:30:28Z White_Flame: including your defpackage statements 2014-10-03T10:30:38Z sz0 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T10:30:58Z H4ns: haom: if you export a symbol x from a package p, that symbol is visible as p:x from everywhere. 2014-10-03T10:31:17Z H4ns: haom: there is no relationship between packages, only between symbols. 2014-10-03T10:32:28Z |3b| can't get sbcl to behave that way, unless a.b.c and a.b both get NAME from some common package (like if both :use some package that exported symbols you didn't know about) 2014-10-03T10:32:39Z haom: H4ns, my problem was that, as I said, symbol a.b.c.symbol is accessible as a.b.symbol, although it is neither defined nor exported in a.b's package definition. 2014-10-03T10:32:54Z H4ns: haom: you're going to have to paste an example 2014-10-03T10:33:11Z H4ns: haom: because what you said is not true unless you've made a mistake in your package definitions. 2014-10-03T10:33:40Z H4ns: haom: but you can certainly continue to try describing your problem in imprecise terms and have us speculate about what you did wrong. 2014-10-03T10:33:47Z |3b|: (and if it is true, we would like enough information to file a bug report to get it fixed) 2014-10-03T10:34:06Z H4ns: |3b|: you like keeping up the hope, right? :) 2014-10-03T10:34:15Z H4ns: it _must_ be a compiler bug 2014-10-03T10:34:22Z |3b|: :) 2014-10-03T10:34:42Z White_Flame: if it's a bug, it'd likely be a reader bug ;) 2014-10-03T10:34:49Z haom: sorry, it was not my intention to be imprecise, I tried to avoid pasting everything. 2014-10-03T10:35:06Z H4ns: haom: paste.lisp.org - it has buttloads of disk space 2014-10-03T10:35:25Z White_Flame: and it doesn't spam the channel and get you booted for flooding via paste :-P 2014-10-03T10:35:57Z White_Flame: H4ns: are those metric or imperial buttloads? 2014-10-03T10:36:20Z H4ns: White_Flame: metric. the server is located in the netherlands. 2014-10-03T10:37:25Z splittist: badoom, tish! 2014-10-03T10:41:01Z haom: okokok, you were (all) right, I had :use-d a.b in a.b.c. 2014-10-03T10:41:31Z Shinmera: Crisis averted \o/ 2014-10-03T10:42:00Z White_Flame: reducing SBCL bug team defcon to level 1 2014-10-03T10:47:49Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T10:48:54Z PuercoPop: if I want to compare for symbols in different packages (a keyword against a symbol in current package) is there a better way than using string= after applying #'symbol-name? 2014-10-03T10:49:37Z oleo is now known as Guest82020 2014-10-03T10:49:50Z Shinmera: directly using string= 2014-10-03T10:49:57Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T10:50:13Z Shinmera: (string= :foo 'foo) => T 2014-10-03T10:50:18Z H4ns: PuercoPop: you don't need the #'symbol-name, symbols are string designators 2014-10-03T10:50:47Z PuercoPop: didn't know that, thanks y'all! 2014-10-03T10:51:21Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T10:52:43Z Guest82020 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T10:53:47Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-10-03T10:56:30Z haom left #lisp 2014-10-03T10:57:18Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:00:49Z harish joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:02:28Z bitonic joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:02:29Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T11:03:03Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:03:17Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:03:32Z bitonic left #lisp 2014-10-03T11:07:22Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T11:08:37Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T11:13:20Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-10-03T11:16:32Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:16:42Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:18:43Z splittist: I wonder if I would use l1sp.org more naturally if it used clhs as well as cl as a redirect? 2014-10-03T11:20:17Z kbtr_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:20:17Z kbtr_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T11:21:02Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T11:22:44Z Xach joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:24:47Z pierre1_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T11:24:56Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T11:34:42Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:36:18Z Blaguvest joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:39:25Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T11:43:29Z pranavrc quit 2014-10-03T11:46:41Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:47:44Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T11:50:18Z ehu: H4ns: coming through loud and clear on drakma-devel@ 2014-10-03T11:55:49Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-10-03T11:56:22Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T11:59:44Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:00:38Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:01:36Z ehu: Xach: was cliki2 ever in quicklisp? 2014-10-03T12:02:26Z ehu thinks he's misunderstanding Vladimir's directions. 2014-10-03T12:04:07Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:09:25Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T12:09:57Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:10:57Z Hache_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:13:07Z katco quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T12:14:02Z oslvbo quit 2014-10-03T12:17:24Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:19:03Z Xach: ehu: i don't think so 2014-10-03T12:20:20Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:21:57Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-03T12:22:05Z ehu: Xach: thanks then I definitely misunderstood his instructions. 2014-10-03T12:22:15Z BitPuffin` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:22:32Z BitPuffin quit (Quit: See you on the dark side of the moon!) 2014-10-03T12:23:42Z Xach: which instructions? 2014-10-03T12:23:42Z BitPuffin` is now known as BitPuffin 2014-10-03T12:24:02Z ehu: instructions to get cliki running on common-lisp.net 2014-10-03T12:24:46Z ehu: he said to install quicklisp install cliki2 2014-10-03T12:25:02Z ehu: (hmm. scratch the first install) 2014-10-03T12:25:43Z ehu: but if there's no cliki2 in quicklisp, then I must have misunderstood his instruction; because my interpretation is to run (ql:quickload "cliki2") 2014-10-03T12:26:30Z Grue`: well if you put it into local-projects, it might just work 2014-10-03T12:26:36Z Xach: ehu: maybe he skipped the step of putting it in the asdf path somewhere 2014-10-03T12:27:05Z Xach: quicklisp as dependency-satisfier only 2014-10-03T12:27:37Z ehu: ah. ok. 2014-10-03T12:27:50Z ehu: there is a local-projects directory indeed. 2014-10-03T12:27:58Z ehu: I've never used quicklisp like that. 2014-10-03T12:28:01Z ehu: I'll check it out. 2014-10-03T12:31:44Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:33:32Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T12:35:53Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T12:36:10Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T12:36:23Z mishoo_ quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)) 2014-10-03T12:38:10Z ehu: ok. that worked! 2014-10-03T12:38:32Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:41:57Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:43:32Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:45:51Z fe[nl]ix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T12:45:51Z Blkt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T12:45:59Z Blkt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:46:01Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:46:32Z Xach prepares an alpha for sunday's update! 2014-10-03T12:49:24Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:51:48Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-10-03T12:51:57Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T12:52:32Z dim has ql-to-deb ready to grab next QL release ;-) 2014-10-03T12:54:58Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:56:32Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T12:57:39Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-10-03T12:58:10Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T12:59:51Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T13:00:08Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:04:47Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:05:01Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T13:06:35Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T13:06:42Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:07:35Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-10-03T13:07:59Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:09:34Z boogie quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T13:10:13Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:11:39Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:11:56Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:12:46Z eli joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:15:01Z svetlyak40wt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T13:15:32Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:15:33Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:18:12Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:22:09Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:22:16Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:22:34Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:23:11Z dlowe: I usually just do ln -sft ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ *.asd 2014-10-03T13:25:19Z zeitue quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T13:27:21Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:27:23Z rme joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:29:35Z eudoxia: can somebody try this library and tell me if it loads fine? https://bitbucket.org/alxchk/cl-libssh2 2014-10-03T13:29:45Z eudoxia: i'm trying to get it added to QL but Xach's build fails 2014-10-03T13:29:59Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-10-03T13:33:56Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T13:34:14Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:34:38Z Xach: I'm using sbcl 1.2.3.62+ 2014-10-03T13:34:54Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:36:41Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T13:37:23Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:38:17Z lduros quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T13:40:04Z c107 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:43:15Z phao joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:44:24Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T13:44:32Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:44:32Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:49:26Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T13:49:33Z paroneay` is now known as paroneayea 2014-10-03T13:49:50Z paroneayea quit (Changing host) 2014-10-03T13:49:50Z paroneayea joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:52:28Z yuv- joined #lisp 2014-10-03T13:58:57Z Blaguvest quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T13:59:06Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:11:02Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T14:12:09Z chitofan joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:12:22Z chitofan: hi everybody 2014-10-03T14:12:39Z chitofan: i have a non-lisp question that might involve lisp in some way 2014-10-03T14:12:49Z chitofan: my boss wants to do a rewrite for our industrial machine 2014-10-03T14:13:11Z chitofan: first get it operational, then do a rewrite because the current software is so difficult to maintain 2014-10-03T14:13:22Z chitofan: it's currently written in vb.net 2014-10-03T14:13:30Z chitofan: an automated dispensing system somewhat similar to this 2014-10-03T14:13:54Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:13:57Z chitofan: http://www.gpd-global.com/co_website/features-needlecalibration.php 2014-10-03T14:14:05Z chitofan: it looks something like this, wait it is ACTUALLY is like this 2014-10-03T14:14:17Z chitofan: and my boss has presented to me two options 2014-10-03T14:14:23Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-10-03T14:14:38Z chitofan: one, if im confident to take on the challenge, he will give me support to take the year or so to develop the software 2014-10-03T14:14:54Z chitofan: second, is to bring in software consultants (which is what we did last time, and did not end up so well) 2014-10-03T14:14:58Z chitofan: any opinions? 2014-10-03T14:15:21Z wasamasa: I dunno man, considering you're still blindly copying idioms from SICP to CL and wonder why they work out not that well 2014-10-03T14:15:30Z wasamasa: I suggest you to /join ##lisp 2014-10-03T14:16:25Z chitofan: huh? 2014-10-03T14:16:28Z wasamasa: since it's exactly for such questions that aren't tied to a specific dialect of lisp we all love 2014-10-03T14:18:48Z Cymew: There's a ##lisp as well? We have a zoo of them 2014-10-03T14:19:27Z wasamasa: yes, it's a channel that's not dedicated to CL specifically 2014-10-03T14:19:41Z moore33: Or do it in Common Lisp and stay here. 2014-10-03T14:19:42Z dlowe: There's ##lisp, #clnoobs, #lisp, and #lispcafe 2014-10-03T14:19:49Z wasamasa: so every time someone comes in here expecting such a thing, we can redirect that person to ##lisp 2014-10-03T14:19:59Z wasamasa: dlowe: and a web development one? 2014-10-03T14:20:02Z dlowe: did I forget any? 2014-10-03T14:20:04Z dlowe: is there? 2014-10-03T14:20:04Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:20:06Z Cymew: Good news. I'll do that then. 2014-10-03T14:20:07Z wasamasa: I think so 2014-10-03T14:20:17Z moore33: #clnoobs? That sounds promising. 2014-10-03T14:20:18Z Cymew: oh, the secret web channel 2014-10-03T14:20:33Z wasamasa: "#lispweb - Conversation about writing web applications in Common Lisp." 2014-10-03T14:20:35Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T14:20:43Z Cymew: look at that 2014-10-03T14:20:57Z splittist: "No to Object Oriented BS"? 2014-10-03T14:20:59Z wasamasa: see http://cliki.net/Getting+Started 2014-10-03T14:21:52Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-10-03T14:22:07Z Shinmera: Is there some generally-accepted way to rename a file across devices? Trying to use RENAME-FILE fails, at least on SBCL. 2014-10-03T14:22:07Z moore33: splittist: Who's saying that? 2014-10-03T14:22:32Z dlowe: Shinmera: you can't reasonable rename a file across devices. You can copy and delete the original if you want 2014-10-03T14:22:39Z dlowe: *reasonably 2014-10-03T14:22:43Z Shinmera: Welp, alright. 2014-10-03T14:23:04Z Shinmera: I was just wondering if there was some lib that already provided a function to do it. UIOP doesn't seem to. 2014-10-03T14:23:37Z Hache_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T14:23:55Z wasamasa: Shinmera: across filesystems you mean? 2014-10-03T14:24:19Z Shinmera: wasamasa: well yes. The error message mentions devices, so I used the terminology accordingly. 2014-10-03T14:24:50Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T14:25:05Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:25:16Z Shinmera: I'll just use copy-file for now, it's no biggie. 2014-10-03T14:25:26Z splittist: moore: I was trying to think of another meaning for noobs. Must have been some 1980's research project, too... 2014-10-03T14:26:05Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:26:25Z splittist: +33 2014-10-03T14:27:20Z wasamasa: Shinmera: I think operating systems copy the file if it can't just be moved 2014-10-03T14:28:12Z wasamasa: Shinmera: then delete the original after successful completion 2014-10-03T14:28:27Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:28:48Z Xach: "operating systems" don't do that, /bin/mv does that. 2014-10-03T14:29:29Z Xach: the rename system call will give you EXDEV or similar 2014-10-03T14:30:55Z moore33: splittist: Got it. Thought it might have been the chanmsg for yet another lisp channel. 2014-10-03T14:31:05Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:31:20Z moore33: Seriously, do noobs actually go to #clnoobs? 2014-10-03T14:31:35Z eudoxia: maybe if it were advertised more 2014-10-03T14:32:11Z nerdbeard: |3b|: Thanks for the note on alexandria. So you think it's cl-freetype2 doing some silent initialization even though I have to explicitly call an init function. Yuck! I'll try your suggestions. 2014-10-03T14:32:20Z dlowe: they did for a bit. 2014-10-03T14:32:24Z moore33: If I were a noob (or when I was a noob), I think I'd rather sit at the feet of masters rather than go off to the noob zone. 2014-10-03T14:32:53Z dlowe: the idea was more of a snark-free zone for asking basic questions 2014-10-03T14:33:07Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:34:15Z Cymew: I think the idea is a good one, but I must admit I didn't know it existed until a few weeks ago and I've known about this place for ages 2014-10-03T14:34:35Z Cymew: ...but maybe this veers very close to off topic meta discussion 2014-10-03T14:34:58Z raymondillo joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:35:10Z Grue`: yeah and how would anyone even know it exists 2014-10-03T14:35:38Z Grue`: its not like you just say to the person: hey dude, you're a noob, go into that one channel 2014-10-03T14:35:47Z dlowe: well, it's on that cliki link 2014-10-03T14:36:19Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T14:36:20Z dlowe: and it turns up if you search for "common lisp" in a channel list 2014-10-03T14:36:51Z simulacrum joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:36:59Z MutSbeta joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:37:12Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T14:39:31Z reb`` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T14:41:05Z nerdbeard: I found my way here without consulting anything and I'm sure a lot of people arrive through the same instinctual homing sense. 2014-10-03T14:42:22Z raymondillo: I Looked In Special Places and lo' here I am. :) 2014-10-03T14:42:33Z lambda joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:42:38Z Svetlana joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:45:24Z oleo__ is now known as oleo 2014-10-03T14:47:07Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:49:01Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T14:49:11Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:50:20Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:50:59Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T14:54:13Z chitofan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-03T14:54:24Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T14:57:55Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T15:00:36Z paddymahoney joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:01:24Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T15:02:24Z simulacrum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T15:02:33Z Blaguvest joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:04:52Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T15:05:45Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-03T15:05:46Z harish joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:06:14Z tkhoa2711 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T15:12:08Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:13:06Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T15:15:28Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:15:29Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T15:15:59Z reb` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:17:14Z nell joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:17:30Z gingerale joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:21:13Z reb`: cd 2014-10-03T15:21:13Z reb`: j 2014-10-03T15:21:36Z reb`: oops, wrong window. 2014-10-03T15:22:19Z fortitude joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:23:42Z paul0`` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T15:26:09Z c107 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T15:28:13Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:30:09Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-03T15:30:47Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-10-03T15:32:42Z TDog quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T15:32:47Z juniorroy joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:33:08Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:33:11Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:34:46Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-10-03T15:36:55Z leo2007 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 25.0.50.4) 2014-10-03T15:39:41Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T15:41:28Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:42:43Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T15:44:27Z paddymahoney quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T15:46:12Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:49:19Z fortitude quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T15:49:46Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:55:51Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T15:57:43Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:00:31Z paddymahoney joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:05:37Z neurokraft joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:06:39Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:07:07Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:10:11Z theseb: i read a mind bending Steve Yegge blue sky blog rant......HE said if all apps had log files, config files and other text files that were sexpressions the world would be a nicer place.....CL would simply write DSLs to do text processing? 2014-10-03T16:10:11Z minion: theseb, memo from pjb: if you were a mathematical guy, you'd realize that it's much easier to build conses from lambda than to build vectors. 2014-10-03T16:10:11Z minion: theseb, memo from pjb: or lists. 2014-10-03T16:10:22Z theseb: is that cool? 2014-10-03T16:12:08Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-10-03T16:12:20Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T16:12:30Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T16:13:15Z Shinmera: Why do you have such a boner for the word DSL 2014-10-03T16:14:47Z eudoxia quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T16:15:24Z nyef: Because it's faster than dial-up? 2014-10-03T16:16:16Z Shinmera snickers 2014-10-03T16:20:08Z DTSCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:20:31Z raymondillo left #lisp 2014-10-03T16:21:17Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T16:21:43Z neurokraft quit (Quit: neurokraft) 2014-10-03T16:21:43Z moore33 imagines all the unprintable objects in log messages :P 2014-10-03T16:23:35Z beach joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:23:47Z beach: Good evening everyone! 2014-10-03T16:24:16Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T16:25:10Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:27:35Z nyef: Hello beach. 2014-10-03T16:28:12Z moore33: Hi beach. 2014-10-03T16:29:31Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:30:49Z njsg: good news everyone! 2014-10-03T16:32:08Z beach: For SICL, I decided I didn't need an AST for PROGV or any AST for some binding a special variable known at compile time, because it can be done with a function. But for Cleavir, I decided to put them in just in case some implementation doesn't want to implement them via function calls. 2014-10-03T16:32:53Z beach: So I think Cleavir will have a PROGV-AST and a BIND-AST. 2014-10-03T16:32:57Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T16:38:14Z nyef: moore33: Unprintable objects such as # ? 2014-10-03T16:38:39Z moore33: nyef: heh. 2014-10-03T16:39:24Z nand1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T16:41:33Z bege_ is now known as bege 2014-10-03T16:41:44Z moore33 quit 2014-10-03T16:42:11Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:42:43Z beach: njsg: Are you waiting for someone to ask "What's the good news njsg?". I really hate it when people do that. 2014-10-03T16:43:02Z njsg: nah, I was really just imitating farnsworth 2014-10-03T16:43:18Z njsg: no news at all 2014-10-03T16:43:23Z njsg: well, I mean, I can start slrn... 2014-10-03T16:43:29Z njsg: ... and check c.l.lisp. actually 2014-10-03T16:43:53Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:44:32Z dlowe: I actually bought into s-exp log files and haven't regretted it 2014-10-03T16:45:39Z Xach: dlowe: what kind of symbols do you emit? 2014-10-03T16:45:51Z Xach: dlowe: (if any) 2014-10-03T16:46:06Z njsg: first time reading c.l.lisp after a long time: 2014-10-03T16:46:13Z njsg: "why is my killfile gone?" 2014-10-03T16:46:18Z njsg: (re: posters from google groups) 2014-10-03T16:46:46Z dlowe: Just the usual stuff. Time in local-time format, Log file levels LOL,FYI, WTF, and OMG, process ID, thread ID, message 2014-10-03T16:47:24Z dlowe: if you do one sexp per line, you can even use normal log software with it 2014-10-03T16:47:29Z dlowe: I don't see a downside 2014-10-03T16:47:44Z denisrum joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:47:57Z Fade: do you expect ever to read the output with the reader? 2014-10-03T16:48:21Z dlowe: I've done so for homegrown analysis. 2014-10-03T16:48:59Z dlowe: When something gets really easy, new things become practical 2014-10-03T16:49:03Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:49:35Z Fade: I can see outputting sexp's that could be read into a graph db without any munging being quite useful. 2014-10-03T16:50:10Z Fade: I've spent too much time over the years tearing apart log data for analysis. 2014-10-03T16:50:21Z Beluki joined #lisp 2014-10-03T16:50:27Z Fade: hell, splunk turned that into a pretty lucrative business. 2014-10-03T16:55:02Z Xach: dlowe: oh, i meant do you ever emit non-keyword symbols with a package prefix. 2014-10-03T16:55:38Z Xach: Whenever I think about using s-expressions it seems like that could be a necessary restriction. But then it doesn't go beyond thinking. 2014-10-03T16:55:48Z Xach: S-expressions as a serialization format, that is. 2014-10-03T16:56:16Z dlowe: Xach: Hm. No. That sounds problematic. I was using the s-exps as a container format for a log message. 2014-10-03T16:56:51Z dlowe: You could strip the package prefixes off, I suppose. 2014-10-03T16:57:37Z Xach: yeah, with a pprint dispatch or something. 2014-10-03T16:58:28Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-10-03T16:58:54Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:00:29Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T17:00:59Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:01:04Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T17:04:33Z alesguzik quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T17:04:57Z k-stz joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:05:36Z Beluki quit (Quit: Beluki) 2014-10-03T17:05:59Z nell is now known as nell|away 2014-10-03T17:07:40Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-10-03T17:08:20Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T17:10:06Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:10:19Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:16:24Z hlavaty` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T17:16:31Z loke_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T17:16:59Z InfusoElAmbulant joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:17:08Z ahungry: Twittering-mode is failing to decrypt (or encrypt a brand new) ~/.twittering-mode.gpg file for saving password, any idea how I could debug? 2014-10-03T17:17:42Z ahungry: only thing that changed recently was that I added gpg-agent to run on a socket and source the gpg agent file when using the shell 2014-10-03T17:17:49Z Xach: ahungry: sounds pretty emacsy? 2014-10-03T17:17:54Z Xach: Is twittering-mode a CL thing? 2014-10-03T17:17:55Z ahungry: Oh crap, sorry guys 2014-10-03T17:18:00Z ahungry: I thought i was i #emacs 2014-10-03T17:18:05Z Xach has used Chirp a little for CL tweeting 2014-10-03T17:18:06Z ahungry: derp 2014-10-03T17:18:42Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:18:46Z ahungry: I'll have to check that out sometime, was thinking it would be fun to do some twittering from slime 2014-10-03T17:22:15Z theseb: if all apps had text files that were sexps the world would be a nicer place.....CL would simply write DSLs to do text processing right? 2014-10-03T17:22:25Z theseb: e.g. for config files and log files? 2014-10-03T17:22:50Z Hache_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:22:56Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:24:36Z Xach: theseb: it would be nicer in some ways and less nice in others. 2014-10-03T17:25:14Z DTSCode quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T17:27:21Z oGMo: deja vu? 2014-10-03T17:27:56Z boogie quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-10-03T17:28:52Z theseb: Xach: ever read Steve Yegge's blogs?....he is always reliable for some blue sky idea like that 2014-10-03T17:30:15Z alesguzik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T17:30:15Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:32:08Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T17:32:11Z dlowe: theseb: if you have an operations team, they will hate you and your DSL. 2014-10-03T17:33:03Z zacharias quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T17:33:19Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:33:34Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-10-03T17:34:19Z oGMo: naive and arguably wrong anyway .. it's easy to say "if everything was perfect, it'd be perfect", and there are tons of things that read other data and spit out sexp.. which you could still write your DSL for and eval the form 2014-10-03T17:34:26Z oGMo: json, xml 2014-10-03T17:34:41Z Xach: theseb: i have read it 2014-10-03T17:34:50Z theseb: i love his blogs 2014-10-03T17:35:49Z Xach: ok 2014-10-03T17:35:53Z nerdbeard: xml kind of undermines your point tho as it's made of sexps 2014-10-03T17:38:27Z nyef: Except that sexps are easy to parse, and XML is a bleeding nightmare. 2014-10-03T17:38:53Z nyef: (To the point where, given simple XML-parsing cases, I use regexps rather than a full parser.) 2014-10-03T17:38:58Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:39:23Z oGMo: it doesn't really matter .. there are things that read xml to a list, and it's not a magical solution everyone's using, so just having them easier to read isn't going to change that 2014-10-03T17:40:06Z dlowe: nyef: isn't that exactly the wrong approach? Most of the problems with XML come from people rolling their own. 2014-10-03T17:40:12Z oGMo: json is easier than CL's standard readtable, and could be used the same way, yet it still isn't a magical unicorn 2014-10-03T17:40:22Z Hache_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T17:41:09Z jasom: oGMo: there are a lot of gotchas in json 2014-10-03T17:41:13Z jasom: e.g. surrogate pairs 2014-10-03T17:41:52Z jasom: okay not a lot, but still a few. 2014-10-03T17:42:09Z Hache_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:42:29Z theseb: nerdbeard: i think of XML as "unreadable sexps" yes 2014-10-03T17:42:36Z oGMo: jasom: still irrelevant to the point at hand 2014-10-03T17:42:55Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:43:30Z nyef: dlowe: It is exactly the wrong approach, but at the same time the documentation is so poor and the structure so simple that just looking for the contents of the one tag that I need works well. 2014-10-03T17:43:31Z oGMo: there are "gotchas" with sexp, starting with what standard are you going to use and are you going to require eval'ing them, because that's going to make it rather tough for every other language and flavor of lisp not your own 2014-10-03T17:43:44Z nyef: Maybe we could just use JSON for our log files? 2014-10-03T17:43:56Z nyef: Ah, already suggested, I see. 2014-10-03T17:44:00Z oGMo: json is easy to write dumbly yet correctly 2014-10-03T17:44:42Z nyef: The hard part is parsing JSON and not conflating any two distinct JSON structures in the parsed result. 2014-10-03T17:44:47Z oGMo: otoh fixed width or trivially-delimited lines are probably nicer since you don't have to parse them to search them 2014-10-03T17:44:57Z nyef: Consider the false/empty-list/null cluster. 2014-10-03T17:45:14Z oGMo: nyef: generally, but is that really an issue with log files? :P 2014-10-03T17:45:14Z nyef: As well as the object-field-simply-not-present case. 2014-10-03T17:45:22Z nyef: It could be. 2014-10-03T17:45:37Z oGMo: if you don't have a concrete case this is a stupid discussion 2014-10-03T17:45:42Z nyef: Especially if you're logging parts of your input data or responses. 2014-10-03T17:45:44Z rpg joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:46:16Z oGMo: solve the problem at hand, don't reinvent an rdbms 2014-10-03T17:46:23Z Adlai wonders if he's the first person to try using CL+SSL on RHEL? 2014-10-03T17:46:32Z beach left #lisp 2014-10-03T17:47:24Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:47:33Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T17:47:36Z rpg: Puzzled by SBCL style warnings: I'm getting 2 STYLE-WARNINGs instead of 1 for lambda list with both &OPTIONAL and &KEY. Known issue? am I misunderstanding? 2014-10-03T17:47:39Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:47:40Z susuadb joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:47:44Z susuadb: ahh it's a wonderful day 2014-10-03T17:47:57Z Adlai: i guess the Right Way would be to have CFFI able to load a library >= a certain version 2014-10-03T17:48:19Z nyef: rpg: In COMPILE-FILE, or elsewise? 2014-10-03T17:48:31Z rpg: nyef: In COMPILE-FILE invoked by ASDF. 2014-10-03T17:48:34Z susuadb quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T17:48:59Z Grue`: if you're getting style warnigns at all, you're probably doing something wrong 2014-10-03T17:49:01Z nyef: So, you get one for the issue and one at the end summarizing all of the style-warnings in the file. 2014-10-03T17:49:45Z rpg: nyef: No, I should have been more clear: I'm getting one printed immediately below the other. And I get a count of four (there are 2 places with this badness) instead of 2. 2014-10-03T17:49:49Z rme: Grue`: that is so false 2014-10-03T17:50:19Z rpg: Grue`: Yes, I am doing something wrong. But breaking all the code that calls this would be doing something WRONGER. 2014-10-03T17:50:41Z nyef: rpg: Hrm. Okay, that does seem odd. 2014-10-03T17:51:03Z rpg: nyef: Hang on: I'll give you a snippet from pastebin. 2014-10-03T17:51:22Z Grue`: (defun testx (x &optional y &key z) (and x y z)) produces 2 warnings 2014-10-03T17:51:23Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-10-03T17:52:15Z rpg: Grue`: thanks for the minimal case! 2014-10-03T17:53:05Z rme: s/that is so false/I do not agree/ 2014-10-03T17:53:21Z sz0 quit 2014-10-03T17:53:29Z nyef: Hrm. Okay, I see it at the REPL. 2014-10-03T17:53:54Z Grue`: actually i'm surprised this is a warning, even some CL library functions have such lambda lists 2014-10-03T17:54:12Z Grue`: though its still poor interface design 2014-10-03T17:54:22Z nyef: In 1.1.5.23 and in 1.2.4.8. 2014-10-03T17:54:33Z nyef: It's poor interface design, hence the warning. 2014-10-03T17:54:56Z nyef: The one or two cases in the standard cause perennial confusion, too. 2014-10-03T17:55:14Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T17:56:08Z nyef: Ah! But not in 1.0.23, so we have a regression at some point. 2014-10-03T17:57:29Z rpg: I stumbled across this because in *some* ASDF configurations, STYLE-WARNINGS get mysteriously turned into WARNINGs, and thus cause the build to fail. 2014-10-03T17:58:21Z reb`: Bug exists in 1.0.58 2014-10-03T17:58:47Z nyef: So, down to a range of 35 releases. That should be straightforward to bisect. 2014-10-03T17:59:50Z nyef: And I have to get some work done, so I'm going to have to bow out for now. 2014-10-03T18:00:09Z alesguzik quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:00:12Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:03:12Z chase_gray joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:04:15Z chase_gray: if i'm going to be using (car x) often, is it more efficient to store it as something i.e. (let ((a (car x))) func a) or is it still efficient to just call (func (car x)) 2014-10-03T18:04:55Z Xach: chase_gray: it might be equally efficient either way, but it can be more readable to give it a good name via let. 2014-10-03T18:05:21Z chase_gray: that makes sense - thank you! 2014-10-03T18:05:36Z Xach: If you give it a good accessor (instead of using car directly) that can be readable too. 2014-10-03T18:06:41Z chase_gray: What's an accessor? 2014-10-03T18:06:59Z reb`: chase_gray: And another thing ... I prefer FIRST to CAR if you are treating X as a list instead of as a pair. 2014-10-03T18:07:02Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:07:19Z c107 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:09:04Z Xach: chase_gray: like if your cons is representing something more abstract than just a pair, having something like (defun score (object) (car object)) and then using (score user-data) instead of (car user-data). 2014-10-03T18:09:05Z reb`: An accessor is a function that gives you access to a bit of data in some collective entity. See "slot accessor" for CLOS objects. 2014-10-03T18:09:07Z Hache_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T18:09:41Z chase_gray: oh that makes sense - i've used them before but i didn't know their name 2014-10-03T18:10:16Z chase_gray: thanks to both of you - i'm actually using it for pairs (which is why i'm using car), but you've both been super helpful 2014-10-03T18:11:46Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)) 2014-10-03T18:12:51Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:15:55Z theseb: nerdbeard: huh? 2014-10-03T18:16:03Z PuercoPop: where can I find the section of the clhs that deals with (defun (setf ...)? Just want to make sure that I can't add an optional parameter to the lambda list 2014-10-03T18:16:37Z Grue`: pretty sure you can, because gethash exists 2014-10-03T18:16:48Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T18:16:53Z PuercoPop: thx 2014-10-03T18:17:34Z Bike: clhs 5.1.2.9 2014-10-03T18:17:34Z specbot: Other Compound Forms as Places: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_abi.htm 2014-10-03T18:17:37Z Bike: think that's it 2014-10-03T18:18:12Z PuercoPop: thanks Bike 2014-10-03T18:19:10Z Bike: "any other compound form" meaning that excludes a few cl functions (aref and so on), values, the, apply, anything with a defined setf expansion, and macros, if that's relevant which it probably isn't 2014-10-03T18:19:33Z nell|away quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-10-03T18:19:49Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:20:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:21:06Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:22:32Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-10-03T18:23:11Z puchacz joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:23:30Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:24:30Z juniorroy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T18:26:30Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:27:18Z nell joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:33:37Z hiroakip quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T18:34:15Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:35:59Z theseb: oGMo: so your point if i understood correctly was that storing text info in sexprs, XML, JSON is nice but isn't a panacea? 2014-10-03T18:36:22Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:36:34Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:36:41Z jewel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T18:37:07Z hiroakip quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T18:37:34Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:38:54Z hiroakip quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T18:39:22Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:39:34Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:40:08Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:41:17Z nerdbeard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T18:42:31Z theseb: am i the only one that noticed you can convert sexprs to XML to JSON so everyone gets to use whatever text structure they want? 2014-10-03T18:44:10Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:46:46Z nerdbeard joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:47:03Z MouldyOldBones quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:47:14Z Bike: please, there are solutions for all of us: http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/wsdatap/v6r0m0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.dp.xm.doc%2Fjson_jsonx.html 2014-10-03T18:47:51Z iqool joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:48:02Z rme just shakes his head 2014-10-03T18:48:47Z nell is now known as nell|away 2014-10-03T18:48:56Z denisrum quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:50:34Z jkaye quit 2014-10-03T18:52:26Z rpg: Does anyone have a macro like COMPILE-WITH-MUFFLED-WARNINGS that one could wrap around a DEFUN? 2014-10-03T18:52:46Z theseb: Bike: um..your beloved JSONx does the JSON->XML move but we still need the XML->sexp move 2014-10-03T18:53:25Z Bike: http://www.cliki.net/xml 2014-10-03T18:53:39Z Bike: that wasn't meant to be positive though, lol 2014-10-03T18:53:43Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp 2014-10-03T18:53:43Z theseb: Bike: ah 2014-10-03T18:54:08Z theseb: Bike: sorry if i get too excited but lisp is just sooo cool and i can't help myself..it is too fun...i'm on the verge of enlightenment..i can feel it 2014-10-03T18:55:35Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T18:56:15Z Shinmera groans 2014-10-03T18:56:44Z theseb: Shinmera: you're a lisper...life is good..get over it 2014-10-03T18:56:45Z theseb: :) 2014-10-03T18:57:03Z Shinmera: No, no and no. 2014-10-03T18:57:37Z theseb: Shinmera: anyone who is on #lisp is a lisper...that's the deal 2014-10-03T18:57:44Z Shinmera: No. 2014-10-03T18:58:28Z takako joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:01:25Z theseb: Shinmera: having a bad day in lisp land? 2014-10-03T19:01:55Z Shinmera: I don't need to have a bad day for you to be wrong. 2014-10-03T19:02:17Z simulacrum joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:02:36Z theseb: Shinmera: lisp isn't cool? 2014-10-03T19:03:14Z nyef: Some of the people here aren't lispers. 2014-10-03T19:03:31Z nyef: minion, for example, likes lisp, but can't program worth a damn. 2014-10-03T19:03:31Z minion: lisp is the glue that binds the variables together 2014-10-03T19:03:38Z nyef: Heh. 2014-10-03T19:04:07Z theseb: minion is dumb 2014-10-03T19:04:19Z rpg: nyef: I was wondering: is there any way to *locally* muffle warnings in a file -- as a sort of declaration, instead of having to wrap muffle warnings around an entire call to compile-file? 2014-10-03T19:04:38Z nyef: rpg: I have no idea. 2014-10-03T19:04:51Z theseb: can someone tell why in the flip XML ever was invented? 2014-10-03T19:05:03Z nyef: I've occasionally wanted a way to muffle *notes*, but never really warnings. 2014-10-03T19:05:04Z rpg: nyef: I fear not, since we don't have access to the individual calls to compile functions, only the top level COMPILE-FILE call. :-( 2014-10-03T19:05:04Z theseb: why didn't folks just use sexps? or invent JSON instead FFS 2014-10-03T19:05:55Z nyef: (A specific use-case? For a function that is only ever used inlined, I don't really CARE that it might have to box the return value, but I do care that it's otherwise fast.) 2014-10-03T19:06:58Z Shinmera: Xach: I hope I'm not too late to submit a library for the release tomorrow. 2014-10-03T19:07:27Z bjorkintosh: theseb, don't you know anything about this ... 'industry'? it suffers constantly from amnesia. 2014-10-03T19:07:41Z bjorkintosh: invent a solution to solve a long standing problem. 2014-10-03T19:07:48Z theseb: bjorkintosh: everything must be "new" and "hip"? 2014-10-03T19:08:00Z bjorkintosh: wait 5 years. everyone forgets it. wait another 5, and someone gets paid to re-invent it. poorly. 2014-10-03T19:08:16Z bjorkintosh: we need better historians. 2014-10-03T19:08:39Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:08:58Z bjorkintosh: there's this sickening belief that 'old' means obsolete and discarded in this ... 'industry'. 2014-10-03T19:09:00Z bjorkintosh: it's quite stupid. 2014-10-03T19:09:22Z rpg: nyef: Aha: found it -- LOCALLY declaration in http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2535478/how-do-i-disable-warnings-in-lisp-sbcl 2014-10-03T19:09:24Z Krystof: rpg: sbcl has a declaration called muffled-conditions 2014-10-03T19:09:25Z nyef: It's not that we need better historians, we need for people to actually study history. 2014-10-03T19:09:45Z nyef: "We're going to keep repeating history until we get a passing grade." 2014-10-03T19:09:46Z rpg: Krystof: Thanks! I just found it (crossed with your answer) 2014-10-03T19:09:55Z bjorkintosh: hahhaha 2014-10-03T19:10:22Z Adlai: look how well that worked out for the dinosaurs 2014-10-03T19:10:23Z rpg: It's for a case where I have a single function that does something that SBCL (correctly) thinks is unstylish, but that can't be fixed. 2014-10-03T19:11:13Z nyef: Adlai: Quite well: http://xkcd.com/1211/ 2014-10-03T19:12:26Z mak08 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:12:32Z bjorkintosh: so who wants dinosaur for dinner tonight? 2014-10-03T19:13:02Z Adlai: hmm. this is true. 2014-10-03T19:14:25Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 185 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:14:31Z rme_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:14:47Z paddymahoney quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:14:48Z rpg_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:14:53Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:14:53Z rme_ is now known as rme 2014-10-03T19:18:52Z rpg quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:21:20Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:21:20Z pjb: PuercoPop: perhaps you want to use: (com.informatimago.tools.symbol:check-duplicate-symbols) 2014-10-03T19:22:25Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T19:26:22Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:27:09Z simulacrum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T19:27:37Z iqool quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:29:25Z chase_gr` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:29:47Z chase_gray quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T19:30:53Z chase_gr`: how is alexandria:map-combinations supposed to work - the following code isn't working for me (alexandria:map-combinations #'list '(1 2 3) :length 2) in the sense that it returns (1 2 3) while i want it to return ((1 2) (1 3) (2 3)) 2014-10-03T19:31:28Z Bicyclidine: chase_gr`: iirc it calls for effect 2014-10-03T19:31:29Z simulacrum joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:32:23Z Bicyclidine: so something like (let (res) (alexandria:map-combinations (lambda (a b) (push (list a b) res)) '(1 2 3) :length 2)), maybe 2014-10-03T19:32:37Z chase_gr`: what does calling for effect mean? 2014-10-03T19:32:50Z Bicyclidine: as in, the result of the function call is discarded 2014-10-03T19:32:57Z chase_gr`: oh, ok 2014-10-03T19:33:04Z chase_gr`: oh, that would make sense because printing it works 2014-10-03T19:33:07Z chase_gr`: but listing it doesn't 2014-10-03T19:33:24Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:33:27Z Bicyclidine: right 2014-10-03T19:33:52Z chase_gr`: why would i call lambda with two arguments? 2014-10-03T19:34:16Z Bicyclidine: one for each element of the combination? 2014-10-03T19:34:20Z chase_gr`: oh, it probably depends on if its stored as a list 2014-10-03T19:34:48Z chase_gr`: yeah, i thought that map-combinations might return '(1 2) as opposed to (1 2) 2014-10-03T19:34:57Z chase_gr`: thanks for your help 2014-10-03T19:39:13Z madrik quit (Quit: sleep) 2014-10-03T19:39:19Z White_Flame: the function is passed a single parameter, which is a list. It doesn't break up the combination into multiple parameters 2014-10-03T19:40:07Z White_Flame: so (map-combinations #'foo '(1 2 3) :length 2), calls (foo '(1 2)) (foo '(1 3)) (foo '(2 3)) 2014-10-03T19:40:23Z White_Flame: but destructively modifying the parameter list, unless you tell it to cons each one fresh 2014-10-03T19:41:00Z Bicyclidine: my mistake 2014-10-03T19:41:01Z Grue`: it seems like this function is based on MAPC, not MAPCAR as you assumed 2014-10-03T19:41:22Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:41:23Z chase_gr` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:42:19Z Krystof: who's in charge of common-lisp.net? 2014-10-03T19:44:14Z Xach: Krystof: http://common-lisp.net/about/ says easye ehu prxq H4ns and Cheryl Yang (sorry, don't know Cheryl's nick) 2014-10-03T19:44:51Z Krystof: has there been any statement about the change of ssh host key? 2014-10-03T19:45:30Z fmu quit (Quit: End of line) 2014-10-03T19:46:00Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:46:15Z fmu joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:46:27Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:47:35Z fmu quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T19:48:35Z fmu joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:48:45Z takako quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-10-03T19:48:49Z fmu quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T19:49:48Z fmu joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:49:53Z mak08 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:51:10Z Xach: I recall a discussion on IRC but not the details. 2014-10-03T19:51:54Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:52:56Z normanrichards quit 2014-10-03T19:53:15Z nell|away is now known as nell 2014-10-03T19:55:46Z aia joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:55:53Z aia left #lisp 2014-10-03T19:56:05Z pjb: nyef: CL sexp are not so easy to read, in non CL languages. And even in CL, if you want to validate your inputs too. 2014-10-03T19:57:07Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:57:49Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:58:04Z tadni` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T19:59:07Z nyef: pjb: True enough. 2014-10-03T19:59:13Z pjb: nyef: other sexps (eg. Rivest sexps) require libraries everywhere. 2014-10-03T19:59:45Z tadni quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T19:59:56Z pjb: and the problem is "just" a serialization/deserialization problem. 2014-10-03T20:00:37Z nonamae quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-03T20:01:07Z pnpuff_ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:02:16Z mak08 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:02:19Z pnpuff quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T20:02:19Z pnpuff_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T20:02:46Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-03T20:03:00Z H4ns: Krystof: i'm not in charge, regardless what the web page says. 2014-10-03T20:03:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T20:04:13Z mak08 quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T20:04:56Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T20:05:34Z Krystof: H4ns: fair enough. But maybe you could confirm the new ssh host key? 2014-10-03T20:05:39Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:05:51Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T20:06:22Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T20:07:10Z H4ns: Krystof: no, sorry. i've completely pulled myself out of the process. prxq would be the person to talk to. 2014-10-03T20:07:12Z InfusoElAmbulant quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-03T20:07:17Z Krystof: ok, thank you 2014-10-03T20:13:32Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:20:25Z Shinmera quit (Quit: ZzzZ) 2014-10-03T20:29:58Z knob quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T20:31:48Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:32:11Z thawes quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-03T20:33:42Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:33:47Z sheilong joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:35:14Z thierrygar quit (Quit: thierrygar) 2014-10-03T20:35:15Z cneira joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:38:48Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:40:05Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:44:48Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:46:32Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-10-03T20:46:52Z Fare: who's to be contacted when cliki is down? 2014-10-03T20:48:39Z H4ns: vsedach 2014-10-03T20:52:07Z rpg_: Q: Is there any sbcl code that winnows out warnings to be printed? I have wrapped a handler around compilation that is collecting up redefinition warnings that are never printed to the screen. Any chance SBCL is handling these? 2014-10-03T20:52:58Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-10-03T20:53:47Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-10-03T20:55:02Z ehu: again? 2014-10-03T20:55:05Z ehu: ok. hold on. 2014-10-03T20:57:33Z normanrichards quit 2014-10-03T21:00:43Z ehu: Fare: fixed. 2014-10-03T21:01:36Z Krystof: rpg_: there is code to detect whether a redefinition is uninteresting, yes 2014-10-03T21:02:53Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T21:03:23Z Krystof: that muffling might be done by a handler outside your handler; to see whether a given condition is handled by something outside, you can resignal it 2014-10-03T21:03:25Z rpg_: Krystof: Is this top-level? So if I have a HANDLER-BIND that grabs up warnings, it would see uninteresting warnings that are never echoed to the screen? 2014-10-03T21:03:50Z rpg_: Krystof: The problem is that my code is in a jenkins job and it looks for warnings, and if it sees them, it rejects the build as failed. 2014-10-03T21:04:23Z rpg_: So it seems like I have to look *down* the stack to tell if a warning is interesting... 2014-10-03T21:04:33Z Krystof: (let (things) (handler-bind ((warning (lambda (c) (signal c) (push c things) (muffle-warning c)))) ...) (when things (error "there were warnings")) 2014-10-03T21:04:58Z Krystof: rpg_: depends which way you think a stack grows :) 2014-10-03T21:05:20Z rpg_: I mean, I have to think outside my own code's scope to it's caller (the repl?) 2014-10-03T21:05:21Z nell is now known as nell|afk 2014-10-03T21:05:26Z Krystof: yes 2014-10-03T21:05:27Z rpg_: s/it's/its/ 2014-10-03T21:05:29Z rpg_: ouch. 2014-10-03T21:05:50Z Krystof: well, not exactly. You have to see if there's an outer handler which will take responsibility for the condition 2014-10-03T21:06:15Z Krystof: the restart that is taken is (presumably) more inner 2014-10-03T21:06:35Z Krystof: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/09_adaa.htm 2014-10-03T21:07:45Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:08:58Z Krystof: if you don't want to rely on that to see if a default handler exists or not, you could test the condition for being typep SB-KERNEL:UNINTERESTING-REDEFINITION 2014-10-03T21:09:05Z Krystof: but, sb-kernel, you get to keep both parts, etc 2014-10-03T21:10:17Z rpg_: Krystof: Oh, thanks! I think I understand now. 2014-10-03T21:10:26Z rpg_ is testing.... 2014-10-03T21:11:28Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:12:36Z rpg_: Krystof: Got it! Whew! Thanks for the help and for teaching me about resignaling! 2014-10-03T21:13:30Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T21:14:30Z rk[pizza] is now known as rk[1] 2014-10-03T21:15:05Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:15:14Z Fare: rpg: that's what the *uninteresting-loader-conditions* and *uninteresting-compiler-conditions* are for. 2014-10-03T21:15:49Z Fare: rpg: at work, I believe we had SB-KERNEL:UNINTERESTING-REDEFINITION in *uninteresting-loader-conditions*, but NOT in *uninteresting-compiler-conditions*. 2014-10-03T21:17:09Z fridim__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:19:05Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-10-03T21:19:19Z theseb: can someone please remind me what stuff can be expressed in terms of lambdas? 2014-10-03T21:19:29Z theseb: iirc someone said conses can be done in terms of lambdas? 2014-10-03T21:19:29Z Fare: everything 2014-10-03T21:19:41Z theseb: i think there was one more clever trick like that but i forgot what it was 2014-10-03T21:20:16Z theseb: oh wait 2014-10-03T21:20:19Z theseb: i think it was if 2014-10-03T21:20:24Z theseb: can if be done with lambdas? 2014-10-03T21:20:25Z nyef: Some variant on peano arithmetic, maybe? 2014-10-03T21:20:38Z theseb: conses and if as lambdas? how? 2014-10-03T21:20:43Z theseb: sounds freaky 2014-10-03T21:21:07Z Fare: statically typed variants: CONS = \x y -> \z -> z x y CAR = \c -> \x y -> x CDR = \c -> \x y -> y 2014-10-03T21:21:38Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-10-03T21:21:45Z Fare: dynamically typed, you'd need to add another argument to represent the runtime type tag 2014-10-03T21:22:02Z Bicyclidine: (defun if (cond then else) (funcall (nth (funcall cond) (list then else)))), where truth is zero and falsehood is one 2014-10-03T21:22:02Z Fare: which could be a church numeral 2014-10-03T21:23:48Z Fare: see you introductory course to lambda-calculus 2014-10-03T21:28:13Z bjorkintosh: heh. not that many take intro lambda courses. 2014-10-03T21:28:40Z ggole: Typed church-encoded conses can be slightly tricky though 2014-10-03T21:28:56Z ggole: You end up needing universal quantification 2014-10-03T21:33:15Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-03T21:33:47Z InvalidCo: is there a straightforward way to declare an instance-specific method? 2014-10-03T21:34:49Z H4ns: specialize with eql on the instance? 2014-10-03T21:35:03Z H4ns: but it smells kind of fishy, in particular as it'd be a runtime thing. 2014-10-03T21:35:09Z H4ns has a deja vu 2014-10-03T21:35:15Z InvalidCo: cools 2014-10-03T21:35:25Z InvalidCo: I was just looking up the doc on that 2014-10-03T21:35:26Z InvalidCo: but 2014-10-03T21:36:08Z InvalidCo: should I avoid using top-level forms for runtime things? 2014-10-03T21:36:41Z H4ns: not generally, but to me, it sounds like a pretty heavy handed approach to define methods specialized on run-time instances. 2014-10-03T21:36:50Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T21:36:53Z InvalidCo: heavy-handed? 2014-10-03T21:36:54Z InvalidCo: basically I just want to implement javascript-like easy and queasy ui programming 2014-10-03T21:36:55Z H4ns: nobody forces you to use generic function dispatch for everything. 2014-10-03T21:37:10Z H4ns: easy and queasy ui programming, i am not familiar with that term. 2014-10-03T21:37:26Z InvalidCo: I just made it up 2014-10-03T21:37:52Z H4ns: defining a method at run time is heavy handed. putting the instance into some hash is much leaner. 2014-10-03T21:38:03Z InvalidCo: hrm 2014-10-03T21:38:15Z H4ns: when you define a method, a lot of stuff might be going on underneath. for example, caches might be flushed. 2014-10-03T21:38:18Z InvalidCo: but then I'd have to implement all those around and stuff 2014-10-03T21:38:21Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-10-03T21:38:25Z InvalidCo: and basically 2014-10-03T21:38:45Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-10-03T21:38:49Z InvalidCo: I've already got the instances carrying their own event-methods in the objects in lists 2014-10-03T21:39:04Z InvalidCo: s/around/:around/ 2014-10-03T21:39:49Z H4ns: still, nobody forces you to define your handlers using defmethod 2014-10-03T21:39:56Z InvalidCo: mm 2014-10-03T21:40:08Z H4ns: why don't you write a define-handler macro that does the appropriate thing underneath? 2014-10-03T21:40:25Z InvalidCo: that's exactly what I do 2014-10-03T21:40:36Z InvalidCo: except it's named "on" 2014-10-03T21:40:53Z H4ns: so why do you need to define a method that dispatches on a particular instance? 2014-10-03T21:40:56Z InvalidCo: I fear this project may slide towards the vices of javascript 2014-10-03T21:41:08Z InvalidCo: H4ns: because I want the CLOS superfeatures 2014-10-03T21:41:11Z InvalidCo: for example, :around 2014-10-03T21:42:21Z H4ns: if you don't care about how hard you make your clos runtime's life, you could create a class for each instance 2014-10-03T21:42:45Z InvalidCo: mm 2014-10-03T21:43:00Z InvalidCo: kind of messy to have classes named textbox-g4486 2014-10-03T21:43:44Z InvalidCo: of course, I don't know if sbcl realizes it should delete the specialized methods once the instance itself reaches the end of the line 2014-10-03T21:43:59Z H4ns: well, clos is a class-based system. you can create a prototype based system and there are several examples available how to do that. 2014-10-03T21:44:31Z H4ns: (a prototype based system based on the mop, that is) 2014-10-03T21:44:50Z InvalidCo: could you redirect me to a relevant example? 2014-10-03T21:44:57Z H4ns: i kind of tend to think that rethinking the approach may be more sensible. 2014-10-03T21:45:12Z H4ns: InvalidCo: i'd google, and i don't have time for that right now. 2014-10-03T21:45:27Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T21:45:46Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:45:53Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-10-03T21:46:57Z InvalidCo: H4ns: right 2014-10-03T21:46:59Z InvalidCo: I wish this channel had people who actually were here for the lisp and not for the sex and the money 2014-10-03T21:47:23Z H4ns: what 2014-10-03T21:47:32Z wasamasa: wat 2014-10-03T21:47:43Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T21:48:07Z H4ns: InvalidCo: did you come here to insult people who very patiently talked to you about your misguided attempt in programming a gui system? rest assure, i can pay the insult back. 2014-10-03T21:48:29Z ehu: p_l: please kick InvalidCo 2014-10-03T21:49:42Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:51:24Z nell|afk is now known as nell 2014-10-03T21:51:45Z InvalidCo: H4ns: I did not come here to insult anyone. 2014-10-03T21:51:46Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-03T21:52:03Z H4ns: InvalidCo: then don't do it. 2014-10-03T21:52:36Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0) 2014-10-03T21:52:39Z RenRenJuan joined #lisp 2014-10-03T21:52:48Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-10-03T21:52:55Z askatasuna quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T21:53:50Z InvalidCo: well, I hope you didn't take that joke personally 2014-10-03T21:54:35Z H4ns: InvalidCo: of course i did take it personally. 2014-10-03T21:54:42Z oGMo: i'm not sure how that could be construed as an insult heh 2014-10-03T21:55:30Z ehu: oGMo: I can't see how it can*not* be. 2014-10-03T21:56:03Z oGMo: well, first you'd have to take it as other than utterly ridiculous, which would be utterly ridiculous 2014-10-03T21:56:34Z ehu: oh. I find it utterly ridiculous alright. 2014-10-03T21:56:35Z oGMo: InvalidCo: but, topically, you can only bend the system so much before you probably want to use something else 2014-10-03T21:57:05Z oGMo: (and prototype OO kinda sucks) 2014-10-03T21:59:06Z InvalidCo: mm 2014-10-03T22:00:27Z oGMo: and if you want links to CL things, check cliki first 2014-10-03T22:00:32Z ovidnis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:03:37Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:04:08Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T22:04:39Z PuercoPop: InvalidCo: Not that I agree that JS/HTML5 is an easy way to make UI's but you may be interested in https://github.com/mmontone/cl-xul 2014-10-03T22:06:37Z ggole quit 2014-10-03T22:06:53Z InvalidCo: PuercoPop: cool, thanks 2014-10-03T22:07:38Z InvalidCo: I'm not really looking into the HTML side of things, but rather the rapid prototyping style of modifying everything by selectors 2014-10-03T22:07:41Z InvalidCo: ...eventually 2014-10-03T22:08:30Z ovidnis quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-10-03T22:08:32Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-03T22:09:53Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T22:09:57Z InvalidCo: cl-xul seems to have the event callbacks in a special var hashmap 2014-10-03T22:13:58Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-10-03T22:14:09Z nerdbeard quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T22:14:18Z nell joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:22:10Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:27:47Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:27:48Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-10-03T22:28:20Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:28:46Z SvenGek joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:30:05Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-03T22:31:57Z schjetne quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-10-03T22:34:52Z rk[1] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-03T22:36:50Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T22:39:40Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:41:08Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-10-03T22:42:01Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:44:20Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-10-03T22:45:16Z kuzy000_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T22:54:22Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:58:50Z tadni`` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T22:59:37Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2014-10-03T22:59:47Z tadni``` joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:00:17Z tadni` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:00:23Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T23:03:28Z tadni`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:04:03Z tadni``` is now known as tadni_ 2014-10-03T23:04:30Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:05:17Z rme joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:07:29Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:08:27Z lambda quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-10-03T23:09:32Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:10:37Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:10:57Z schjetne joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:14:12Z oleo is now known as Guest56953 2014-10-03T23:15:57Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:17:59Z Guest56953 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:22:41Z normanrichards quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:30:07Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-03T23:31:33Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:41:32Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:43:33Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:44:04Z zeitue joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:44:05Z boogie joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:45:38Z Fare: InvalidCo: if you want a js-like prototype object system, there exist CL implementations for them 2014-10-03T23:45:54Z Fare: e.g. sheeple 2014-10-03T23:46:36Z EvW quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-03T23:46:49Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-10-03T23:46:53Z jasom: oGMo: I find lots of offensive behavior utterly ridiculous 2014-10-03T23:47:12Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-10-03T23:48:28Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-03T23:50:57Z InvalidCo: Fare: excellent, I have to look into this one 2014-10-03T23:51:58Z Fare: see also the programming language Slate 2014-10-03T23:52:17Z Fare: it's got more of a smalltalk syntax, but it has macros 2014-10-03T23:53:01Z Fare: and it has its own gui, too 2014-10-03T23:57:30Z matko quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-03T23:57:54Z sz0 joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:58:40Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-10-03T23:59:40Z InvalidCo: heh