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2014-09-24T15:10:52Z eschulte: I found a thread on this from 2006, but no resolution, and the error is in a sequence-input, not a file so I can't easily just change the source 2014-09-24T15:11:38Z zeebrah joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:11:52Z |3b|: sounds like you are trying to READ something you shouldn't, or not setting up macro characters properly 2014-09-24T15:12:56Z eschulte: being thrown while loading a package that works fine w/sbcl and ccl 2014-09-24T15:13:20Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-24T15:14:00Z eschulte: looks similar to http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.ecl.general/1898 2014-09-24T15:16:20Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-24T15:17:43Z keen__ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:18:52Z keen_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T15:25:03Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:27:58Z nyef: eschulte: For what it's worth, sellout is still in the channel here, though I don't know if he's actually around or not. 2014-09-24T15:31:05Z schjetne quit (Changing host) 2014-09-24T15:31:05Z schjetne joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:31:49Z nyef: Ah, lovely. That special realization that the reason the laptop you're trying to work with doesn't boot isn't because the CD drive is busted and the hard drive is blank, it's because the drive controller is dead. /-: 2014-09-24T15:32:45Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T15:34:47Z zeebrah quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-24T15:36:10Z drewc: nyef: USB still works! 2014-09-24T15:37:05Z drewc has a number of thinkpads where "the CD drive is busted and the hard drive is [FUBAR]", and boots them from USB sticks/HDDs 2014-09-24T15:37:37Z nyef: It didn't spin up the USB DVD drive that I have, either. 2014-09-24T15:37:42Z drewc: that said, realizing that reason is never quite as fun as one would think. 2014-09-24T15:38:05Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T15:39:15Z drewc: well, it could be the BIOS! but I am not a hardware hacker as much as I could be .... so you are most likely way more knowledgeable about such stuff. 2014-09-24T15:40:13Z nyef: Not likely to be an OpenFirmware issue. My next angle with this thing, if I decide to continue, is trying to netboot. (-: 2014-09-24T15:44:06Z jdz joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:46:22Z sellout: eschulte/nyef: Sorry, I’m no help. I don’t remember anything about that. 2014-09-24T15:46:57Z |3b|: eschulte: is the code you are trying to load publicly visible somewhere? 2014-09-24T15:47:36Z |3b|: eschulte: or can you at least paste the exact error somewhere (other than here)? 2014-09-24T15:50:03Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T15:51:53Z tajjada joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:51:55Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:52:37Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T15:54:28Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:54:46Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T15:56:52Z sz0 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T15:57:16Z eschulte: here's the bad line of code https://github.com/eschulte/software-evolution/blob/master/utility/utility.lisp#L49 2014-09-24T15:57:34Z eschulte: it is choking on the "#_" 2014-09-24T15:58:37Z eschulte: I've got everything compiling now, with some hard commenting 2014-09-24T15:58:43Z gryAway quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-09-24T15:58:53Z gryAway joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:00:31Z eschulte: error message is http://sprunge.us/ZPSP 2014-09-24T16:00:35Z stassats: ecl is indeed broken there 2014-09-24T16:02:06Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:02:21Z eschulte: good to know its not just me 2014-09-24T16:02:50Z |3b|: stassats: is that specified? 2014-09-24T16:03:21Z rme: eschulte: If the lisp you're using is choking on the #_, you could work around that by using (ccl:external-call "tempnam" :address base :address prefix :address) instead. 2014-09-24T16:03:53Z bambams_ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:04:17Z stassats: |3b|: my reading says it should be ignored 2014-09-24T16:04:40Z |3b|: "Variable *READ-SUPPRESS* 2014-09-24T16:04:40Z |3b|: Value Type: 2014-09-24T16:04:40Z |3b|: a generalized boolean. 2014-09-24T16:04:40Z |3b|: Initial Value: 2014-09-24T16:04:43Z |3b|: false. 2014-09-24T16:04:46Z |3b|: Description: 2014-09-24T16:04:50Z |3b|: This variable is intended primarily to support the operation of the read-time conditional notations #+ and #-. It is important for the reader macros which implement these notations to be able to skip over the printed representation of an expression despite the possibility that the syntax of the skipped expression may not be entirely valid for the current implementation, since #+ and #- exist in order to allow the same program to be 2014-09-24T16:04:52Z |3b|: shared among several Lisp implementations (including dialects other than Common Lisp) despite small incompatibilities of syntax. 2014-09-24T16:04:55Z |3b|: If it is false, the Lisp reader operates normally. 2014-09-24T16:05:01Z |3b|: If the value of *read-suppress* is true, read, read-preserving-whitespace, read-delimited-list, and read-from-string all return a primary value of nil when they complete successfully; however, they continue to parse the representation of an object in the normal way, in order to skip over the object, and continue to indicate end of file in the normal way. Except as noted below, any standardized reader macro[2] that is defined to read[2] 2014-09-24T16:05:04Z |3b|: a following object or token will do so, but not signal an error if the object read is not of an appropriate type or syntax. The standard syntax and its associated reader macros will not construct any new objects (e.g., when reading the representation of a symbol, no symbol will be constructed or interned). 2014-09-24T16:05:06Z |3b|: Extended tokens 2014-09-24T16:05:09Z |3b|: All extended tokens are completely uninterpreted. Errors such as those that might otherwise be signaled due to detection of invalid potential numbers, invalid patterns of package markers, and invalid uses of the dot character are suppressed. 2014-09-24T16:05:13Z |3b|: oops 2014-09-24T16:05:19Z |3b| thought i has flood protection off :/ 2014-09-24T16:05:42Z stassats: i see about "Such situations as '), #<, #), and # continue to signal errors." 2014-09-24T16:05:51Z eschulte: rme: thanks, I'll do that 2014-09-24T16:06:01Z |3b| was trying to paste the line after that, "continue to ... invoke the dispatch function" 2014-09-24T16:06:14Z |3b|: which suggests it is reasonable to fail when there is no dispatch function 2014-09-24T16:06:33Z stassats: |3b|: there's no reason in interpreting it conservatively and signalling errors 2014-09-24T16:07:13Z chitofan quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-09-24T16:07:19Z Grue`: this makes #+ stuff really useless if it can't even prevent a lisp from choking on wrong code 2014-09-24T16:07:25Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:08:48Z oGMo: Grue`: it can, but there's a limit to how wrong you can be 2014-09-24T16:08:57Z |3b|: stassats: right, other behavior is probably nicer, but i don't see anything saying ecl's interpretation is non-conformant either 2014-09-24T16:09:02Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:09:30Z |3b|: the opposite behavior could just as easily choke on some 'wrong code' as well 2014-09-24T16:09:35Z stassats: although indeed, a dispatching macro charecter can make #_adbc) a valid form, while *read-suppress* will not chew it even if #_ is ignored 2014-09-24T16:09:57Z stassats: but the same thing can happen with a single macro character, !adbc) 2014-09-24T16:10:45Z drmeister_: Great - some dork is running 32 copies of MATLAB for 5 hours now just when I'm startup up 16 copies of clasp (static analyzer time) on a 64 core Linux machine. 2014-09-24T16:11:28Z stassats: so, i don't see what is gained by signalling errors on missing dispatch characters 2014-09-24T16:12:00Z drmeister_: Somewhere on campus there is an airconditioner working it's little electronic heart out to keep everything cool. 2014-09-24T16:12:56Z stassats: 64 cores is not cool anymore 2014-09-24T16:12:56Z drmeister_: Ah-ha! Their job just terminated. Clasp wins the core-war! 2014-09-24T16:13:05Z kjeldahl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:13:26Z drmeister_: This is one shared memory machine. What are we up to these days with multi-core shared memory machines? 2014-09-24T16:15:23Z drmeister_: Multithreading is greasy kids stuff anyway. My research version of Clasp has OpenMPI built into it and I'm going for 100,000+ cores. 2014-09-24T16:17:04Z drmeister_: This 64core machine is what I use to test my Linux build system and to run the static analyzer because my laptop can't handle it. 2014-09-24T16:17:28Z stassats: i guess you can get 8 x 15 cores nowadays 2014-09-24T16:18:15Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-24T16:18:56Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2014-09-24T16:18:58Z drmeister_: Well, the static analyzer is _finally_ running so I'm off for a swim. Toodles. 2014-09-24T16:19:04Z zlrth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:19:33Z nyef: If #+(or)#_whatever breaks on some systems, why not #+(or)#.(read-from-string "#_whatever") ? 2014-09-24T16:19:56Z stassats: too ugly 2014-09-24T16:20:04Z kjeldahl joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:20:14Z stassats: if it were breaking to much, i'd put it into a file and #+ccl it in .asd 2014-09-24T16:20:36Z nyef: Well, yes, that'd be another good option. 2014-09-24T16:24:17Z stassats: c) write a #i reader macro 2014-09-24T16:24:27Z stassats: #ifdef ccl #_tmpnam #endif 2014-09-24T16:24:29Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:24:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-24T16:24:45Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-09-24T16:27:21Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:27:50Z diginet quit (Quit: diginet has quit!) 2014-09-24T16:30:26Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:30:38Z DKordic joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:31:19Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T16:31:40Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-24T16:32:02Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:32:07Z diginet joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:32:45Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:33:15Z w37 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T16:34:59Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:37:30Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:41:52Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:43:21Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-09-24T16:47:27Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:47:50Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:49:23Z yeltzooo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:50:02Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:50:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:51:24Z phao joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:53:19Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:54:58Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:55:33Z przl_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T16:55:33Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-24T16:55:43Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-09-24T16:58:53Z jlarocco joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:01:48Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:04:24Z Fare: uiop does have a #.(or #+mcl (read-from-string "...")) for precisely the reason of surviving #_ syntax. 2014-09-24T17:05:21Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:05:44Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:07:13Z yeltzooo joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:07:16Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-09-24T17:07:36Z dlowe: local-time just uses (ccl:external-call "gettimeofday" :address tv :address (ccl:%null-ptr) :int) 2014-09-24T17:09:10Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:09:28Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:10:50Z jasom joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:11:12Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:12:27Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:18:24Z Fare: would ccl:external-call work on mcl? 2014-09-24T17:18:33Z Fare: has anyone used mcl in years? 2014-09-24T17:18:56Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T17:19:09Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:19:45Z Fare: To run MCL, one needs a Mac with a virtual machine to run an old os x to run a virtual machine to run os9 code to run an emulator to un 68000 code... 2014-09-24T17:21:11Z stassats: can't you do it with rmcl? 2014-09-24T17:21:13Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-09-24T17:21:57Z Fare: last reported user was p-cos, trying to make closer-mop run on it, and bitching about the brokenness of his horrible logical-pathname setup. 2014-09-24T17:22:13Z Fare: stassats: rmcl does the last two steps for you 2014-09-24T17:22:47Z Fare: you still need an old version of osx to run the os9 emulator. 2014-09-24T17:23:59Z rme: It's not exactly true that rmcl needs a Mac OS 9 emulator; it's a Carbon application. But you do need Mac OS X 10.6, since subsequent versions ditched Rosetta (the PowerPC translator). 2014-09-24T17:24:26Z jasom: rme: would it run on my g4? 2014-09-24T17:24:33Z jasom: maybe I should install it 2014-09-24T17:24:51Z drmeister_: Fare: As per our discussion several weeks ago - these are the command line options for Clasp - any thoughts?: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/20429790ce78a3e46aef 2014-09-24T17:24:52Z Fare: isn't carbon essentially an os9 emulator? 2014-09-24T17:24:59Z rme: jasom: it should work. 2014-09-24T17:25:17Z Paul_McFreely quit (Quit: Lingo - http://lingoirc.com) 2014-09-24T17:25:26Z PuffTheMagic_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-09-24T17:25:44Z jasom: Fare: it was more of a porting API 2014-09-24T17:26:26Z stassats: what does chained mean? 2014-09-24T17:26:40Z stassats: and how many repls are there? 2014-09-24T17:26:41Z Fare: drmeister: looks fine to me 2014-09-24T17:27:04Z jasom: stassats: I assume he means "evaluated in sequence with" by that? 2014-09-24T17:27:15Z drmeister_: stassats: I couldn't think of a better way to say that --load {file} and --eval {form} can appear any number of times in the command line and they will be invoked in the order they are found on the command line. 2014-09-24T17:27:18Z segv-: gnus 2014-09-24T17:27:29Z drmeister_: You can chain them together? 2014-09-24T17:27:33Z Fare: was rmcl "native" powerpc, or emulated 68k? 2014-09-24T17:27:34Z stassats: drmeister_: i would find that self-evident 2014-09-24T17:27:39Z stassats: you can expand more in the manual 2014-09-24T17:27:47Z stassats: and what exactly does "Don't load the boot image/start with init.lsp" 2014-09-24T17:27:57Z drmeister_: manual? We don't need no stinkin' manuals. 2014-09-24T17:28:15Z drmeister_: The CLHS is my manual and god is my co-pilot. 2014-09-24T17:28:36Z drmeister_ means that in a non-denominational sense 2014-09-24T17:29:07Z eugenee quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T17:29:12Z drmeister_: But yes, you are correct. Most would find that self-evident. I'll take it out. 2014-09-24T17:29:58Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:30:04Z Grue`: shouldnt there be a .clasprc and a switch to disable it? 2014-09-24T17:30:28Z drmeister_: And the --load {form} is a typo - it should be --load {file} 2014-09-24T17:30:37Z drmeister_: Grue`: Good point. I'll add that. 2014-09-24T17:30:47Z faheem__1: drmeister_: you should get God to help out with your CL development. 2014-09-24T17:30:55Z drmeister_: There is a .clasprc but I don't have a switch to disable it. 2014-09-24T17:31:28Z stassats: why is there init.lisp then? 2014-09-24T17:31:36Z drmeister_: Notice I used a small "g". 2014-09-24T17:32:01Z stassats: faheem__1: we already have one implementation with a religious symbol 2014-09-24T17:32:17Z Grue`: there's also TempleOS 2014-09-24T17:32:55Z faheem__1: stassats: we do? 2014-09-24T17:33:02Z Bike: clisp has a menorah, i think? 2014-09-24T17:33:18Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:34:12Z drmeister_: stassats: init.lsp is used when bootstrapping from just the Clang C++ compiler. Since I've spent the last couple of years bootstrapping over and over and over again I thought it was important and put that in as a command line option. 2014-09-24T17:34:23Z faheem__1: drmeister_: Common Lisp converts things to upper case. 2014-09-24T17:35:33Z drmeister_: Would you use --norc to suppress the $HOME/.clasprc file? 2014-09-24T17:35:34Z dlowe: GOD Over Djinn, then 2014-09-24T17:35:51Z drmeister_: I'm thinking -r/--norc 2014-09-24T17:36:08Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:36:15Z rme: Fare: MCL was a native PowerPC application/compiler. rmcl is a hack to get around Rosetta brokenness (context information in exception/signal handlers is not correct). It's still PowerPC native. 2014-09-24T17:37:10Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:37:29Z faheem__1: rme: trivia question. what is the relationship between mcl and openmcl exactly? is there considerable code reuse, or is it a from-stratch reimplementation? 2014-09-24T17:37:51Z rme: http://ccl.clozure.com/history.html 2014-09-24T17:37:53Z faheem__1: *from-scratch* 2014-09-24T17:38:17Z Hydan` quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-09-24T17:38:39Z faheem__1: rme: i know, i've read that. but it's not very explicit. i've also read rons essay 2014-09-24T17:38:58Z Hydan joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:39:11Z faheem__1: the one about lisp at jpl, the mars rover etc. 2014-09-24T17:39:15Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:39:32Z faheem__1: imagine once upon a time lisp ran inside a spacecraft to mars 2014-09-24T17:39:35Z rme: Oh. Well, by now a lot has changed, but there's still large amounts of MCL-derived code. 2014-09-24T17:40:10Z faheem__1: rme: ok. 2014-09-24T17:40:20Z rme: Basic CL stuff like cl:find, lots of basic source organization and structure, etc. 2014-09-24T17:41:01Z faheem__1: rme: are there licensing issues using MCL code? 2014-09-24T17:41:10Z rme: But of course, MCL never ran on x86 or ARM, so all that stuff is new. 2014-09-24T17:41:11Z faheem__1: or, i should say, were there? 2014-09-24T17:41:54Z rme: Clozure Associates now owns the copyright to all the Clozure CL source files, including the ones originally from MCL. So, no licenseing problems. 2014-09-24T17:42:12Z faheem__1: rme: dumb question, but it doesn't look like CCL uses C code for portability. at least, i don't see any C code being compiled. 2014-09-24T17:42:15Z faheem__1: rme: i see 2014-09-24T17:42:19Z drmeister_: faheem__1: Soon (or now?) Java will be running inside a spacecraft to mars. http://jaxenter.com/developing-nasa-s-mission-software-with-java-51169.html 2014-09-24T17:42:29Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:42:36Z faheem__1: drmeister_: java? yuck. 2014-09-24T17:43:21Z rme: faheem__1: the runtime (threads, gc, exception handling) is in C and assembly. That stuff is in the ccl:lisp-kernel; directory. 2014-09-24T17:44:01Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:44:04Z faheem__1: rme: huh, i don't remember seeing it compiled. must have forgotten. sorry. 2014-09-24T17:44:35Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:44:42Z drmeister_: The problem with putting Lisp on a space craft is garbage collection pauses. 2014-09-24T17:44:43Z rme: (rebuild-ccl :full t) does it behind the scenes. 2014-09-24T17:44:52Z faheem__1: rme: ok 2014-09-24T17:45:21Z faheem__1: drmeister_: you mean real time stuff. 2014-09-24T17:45:34Z drmeister_: In other words - yes. 2014-09-24T17:46:12Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:48:17Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:48:40Z przl joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:48:47Z jasom: I'm working on an incremental GC. That makes a huge difference. 2014-09-24T17:49:20Z jasom: It becomes possible (but still not fun) to write real time with a bounded-work incremental gc. 2014-09-24T17:49:52Z liangchao quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-24T17:50:50Z jasom: A lot of real-time stuff can be written in lower level languages without doing any heap allocation, which makes the gc more of a burden then an aid. 2014-09-24T17:52:53Z jasom: The CL specification contains very little requirements for what will and what won't cons, so it's not practical to avoid consing globally (hand tuning inner loops to avoid CONSing is quite doable obviously). 2014-09-24T17:56:59Z nyef: There are various games you can play in terms of arranging to not cons and/or messing about with the GC in your implementation if necessary. 2014-09-24T17:57:38Z dlowe: we have lots of memory now. Let's just turn the GC off. 2014-09-24T17:57:54Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T17:57:59Z nyef: It's not the RAM, it's the address space. 2014-09-24T17:59:21Z stassats: yesterday i wanted to make (car (last x)) not to cons 2014-09-24T17:59:54Z nyef: ... Why would that cons? 2014-09-24T18:00:01Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T18:00:22Z stassats: right, it was something else then 2014-09-24T18:00:40Z jasom: nyef: obviously; IIRC there was a scheme in which the garbage-collector was written in itself by carefully avoiding consing 2014-09-24T18:00:44Z clop is now known as leeeroy 2014-09-24T18:00:48Z nyef: stassats: Was it the "find the previous element" thing? 2014-09-24T18:00:57Z stassats: nyef: right 2014-09-24T18:00:58Z nyef: jasom: Famously, the T implementation of scheme, yes. 2014-09-24T18:01:01Z leeeroy is now known as clop 2014-09-24T18:01:10Z stassats: so, (last (ldiff ...)) not to cons 2014-09-24T18:01:10Z jasom: nyef: that's the one! 2014-09-24T18:01:22Z stassats: or rather, (car (last (ldiff ...))) 2014-09-24T18:01:27Z clop is now known as acl2git 2014-09-24T18:01:36Z stassats: but that doesn't appear like a common pattern to be worth an optimization 2014-09-24T18:02:09Z nyef: stassats: IIRC, one of my solutions shouldn't cons if the value-cell for the NLX is stack-allocated. I don't know if SBCL does that or not, though. 2014-09-24T18:02:10Z acl2git is now known as clop 2014-09-24T18:02:39Z stassats: nyef: the straightforward loop doesn't cons, but last-ldiff-member is shorter! 2014-09-24T18:03:24Z Bike: it looks like ldiff is defined to cons? 2014-09-24T18:03:42Z Bike: wait, nevermind, that was stupid to say 2014-09-24T18:04:45Z nyef: Okay, as interesting as this is, I'm about to crash. I'll check the backlog once I wake up. 2014-09-24T18:06:02Z bbyler_tho joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:06:45Z knob quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-24T18:06:51Z drmeister_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:06:57Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:08:54Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:09:20Z madmalik joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:12:30Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:13:56Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:14:01Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-09-24T18:14:35Z lyanchih quit (Quit: lyanchih) 2014-09-24T18:14:39Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-24T18:15:17Z KCL_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:15:39Z vanila: When is nested quasiquote used? 2014-09-24T18:16:08Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:16:40Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:16:51Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:16:52Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:18:46Z cwandrews quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-09-24T18:18:52Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:19:19Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:19:20Z cwandrews joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:19:26Z kobain quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-24T18:19:31Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:21:06Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:23:07Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:23:34Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:24:04Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:27:56Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-24T18:28:11Z oleo is now known as Guest54691 2014-09-24T18:29:55Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:30:01Z xach quit (Input/output error) 2014-09-24T18:30:06Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-24T18:30:22Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:30:31Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:30:56Z drewc: vanila: #scheme is thataway ----> 2014-09-24T18:31:07Z Guest54691 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:31:29Z vanila: drewc, hi 2014-09-24T18:31:45Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:33:33Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T18:33:40Z vanila: drewc, what's up 2014-09-24T18:34:43Z Xach: vanila: maybe a reference to terminology differences. in CL it's a backquote, not quasiquote 2014-09-24T18:35:26Z drewc: vanila: yes, "hi" is "adj. Informal spelling of high, often hyphenated.", and 'high' does refer to up a lot of the time ... so what's hi? :) 2014-09-24T18:35:54Z vanila: drewc, Thanks for the chat 2014-09-24T18:36:40Z kuzy000 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:36:53Z kuzy000_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:37:46Z drewc: vanila: Not a problem. "Hayden - In September" is a good song that I have not heard for years, and your responses somehow reminded me of it, so thank you. 2014-09-24T18:38:43Z Bike: vanila: i'm not sure i could describe how it's used exactly. macros that expand into defmacro invocations would be one. 2014-09-24T18:42:28Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:43:02Z fortitude joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:45:18Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T18:46:10Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:46:24Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-24T18:46:27Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T18:47:11Z pgomes joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:50:03Z bbyler_tho quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T18:50:06Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:50:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:50:46Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:51:19Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-24T18:55:54Z bbyler_tho joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:03:14Z inaimathi joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:03:58Z inaimathi: Relaying question: After hitting an error in SLIME, is it possible to reload a file and continue from that point? 2014-09-24T19:04:14Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:07:22Z Fare: yes 2014-09-24T19:09:27Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:10:25Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:10:59Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:11:55Z common-lisper joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:13:01Z inaimathi: How? Just (load ) and take the continue restart? 2014-09-24T19:15:09Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:15:19Z Grue`: isn't it one of the restarts already? 2014-09-24T19:16:07Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:16:14Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-09-24T19:16:15Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-09-24T19:16:19Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:16:20Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:16:47Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:20:25Z Adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:20:46Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:21:37Z innertracks1 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:22:01Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:22:11Z inaimathi: Yes 2014-09-24T19:22:13Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:22:19Z common-lisper quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:22:28Z inaimathi: Ok then. 2014-09-24T19:23:50Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:24:33Z common-lisper joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:24:52Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:25:37Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:25:56Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-24T19:26:17Z innertracks1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:26:34Z common-lisper quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:26:49Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:26:55Z zadock quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:26:56Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:26:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-09-24T19:26:56Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:27:09Z White_Flame: vanila: Because I do a lot of messaging and fact shapes and such, I tend to use backquote a lot inside regular functions. If there's ever a macro that does the same, instant nested backquotes. 2014-09-24T19:28:21Z Fare: drewc: Filinski's 1994 paper "Representing Monads" suggests that all monads can be implemented in terms of control+state. 2014-09-24T19:28:22Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:29:00Z Fare: if I read it correctly 2014-09-24T19:29:33Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:29:39Z drewc: Fare: ohhhh ... ISTR reading that ... but will read again now... but just glancing at what you say .... yes. BIND and RESULT == state and control 2014-09-24T19:30:16Z Fare: the way he puts it is that continuations + a single storage cell can express any monad. 2014-09-24T19:30:54Z Fare: so that scheme or smlnj can express all monadic computations in direct style 2014-09-24T19:31:20Z Fare: http://www.diku.dk/~andrzej/papers/RM-abstract.html 2014-09-24T19:31:44Z Fare: (via LtU) 2014-09-24T19:33:25Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:33:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:34:26Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-24T19:34:42Z bbyler_tho quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:35:18Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:35:24Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:36:38Z drewc: yeah, reading the intro to that paper, it seems to state almost what I do in https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/doc/tutorial.org .... that if we go beyond the type system itself, it is a 'style' of programming which can be implemented in many ways 2014-09-24T19:37:08Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:37:22Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:38:57Z Fare: drewc: if you use a . prefix, why use .result instead of .return (which would match standard terminology)? 2014-09-24T19:39:06Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:39:19Z Fare: (in clojure, I use &bind and &return) 2014-09-24T19:40:18Z drewc: Fare: what does return do vs what does result do? in other words, RETURN does something different than RESULT, and I wanted to "match standard terminology" ... 2014-09-24T19:40:23Z Fare: also, spell check: primative => primitive 2014-09-24T19:40:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:40:51Z drewc: it could be called .identity to match CL terms... 2014-09-24T19:40:57Z drewc: make sense? 2014-09-24T19:41:03Z Fare: effeciency => efficiency, etc. 2014-09-24T19:41:15Z drewc: yeah, that is a WIP .... don't care about it at all. 2014-09-24T19:41:16Z Fare: (use ispell, aspell, etc.) 2014-09-24T19:41:26Z drewc: yes, I do, when it is done. 2014-09-24T19:41:34Z Fare: ok 2014-09-24T19:41:44Z drewc: Sorry, will not link to WIPs in the future! :P 2014-09-24T19:42:46Z zacts quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-24T19:42:47Z drewc: and primates do exists and are more primitive than others .... or something 2014-09-24T19:43:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:43:24Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-09-24T19:43:55Z Fare: :) 2014-09-24T19:44:11Z drewc: (if you use the continuation monad, then RETURN could actually be implemented and DTRT according to the spec itself .... sorta) 2014-09-24T19:44:19Z nyef is trying to figure out how to make a "monkey" or "ape" joke here. 2014-09-24T19:44:35Z drewc: nyef: something to do with giga ... 2014-09-24T19:45:00Z nyef: ... which leads to a "robbing peter to pay paul" joke, surely? 2014-09-24T19:45:06Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:45:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:45:52Z drewc: badom, chshhhhh! <--- trying to make a snare/cymbal crash punchline thingie there 2014-09-24T19:48:27Z drewc: Fare: but yeah, what is the parser monad but a state + list monad ... and what is a state monad if implemented using functions? and if those functions are passed to continue? ... PS: many many PSs it seems .. IPS, CPS, GPS! 2014-09-24T19:48:46Z inaimathi left #lisp 2014-09-24T19:49:00Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit) 2014-09-24T19:50:16Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T19:50:23Z drewc: once we get away from the type thing, which lazy functional languages need in order to work at all, monads are basically LET* + IDENTITY on the surface, and whatever computation has to take place below decks. 2014-09-24T19:51:20Z drewc: what is nice is being able to use the exact same code but change the monads underneath ... so parsing becomes shift/reset etc 2014-09-24T19:53:12Z zlrth joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:53:14Z drewc: and of course, the entire dynamic type thing makes for the entire "But, what /is/ a monad exactly" a lot of fun. especially for us gnostics. 2014-09-24T19:53:22Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:53:40Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-09-24T19:55:40Z ruste quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T19:56:11Z drewc: dynamic scope also makes for an interesting turn of events .... then we need to define what STATE and CONTINUATION are according to scope and monads ... Ok I am done thinking now, sorry for the chatter-thought 2014-09-24T19:58:30Z vanila: drewc, http://lpaste.net/111570 2014-09-24T19:58:59Z Fare: dynamic scope for the monad object? or adding continuation markers to the continuation monad? 2014-09-24T19:59:20Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-24T20:01:22Z MightyJoe quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T20:02:20Z jegaxd26 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T20:02:47Z drewc: dynamic scope + continuations ... or : does the scope continue as well? meaning that a closure also has to capture the dynamic environment... or something ... with a STATE monad we do not need dynamic scope per se, .... and all that sort of fun. 2014-09-24T20:02:52Z ruste joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:04:24Z drewc: vanila: <----- #scheme is thataway now. This is a channel about common lisp. 2014-09-24T20:04:50Z vanila: man you seem really stuck up 2014-09-24T20:05:14Z vanila: sure, i wont try talk to your highness again 2014-09-24T20:05:41Z vanila: lowly filth like me doesn't deserve your audience 2014-09-24T20:05:56Z drewc: If you say so. Your opinion matters. 2014-09-24T20:06:09Z MightyJoe joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:06:18Z nyef: "Your opinion matters. Scheme doesn't." 2014-09-24T20:07:23Z nyef: Maybe we can transition to a discussion of SVO vs. SOV natural language patterns as compared with prefix, infix, and reverse-polish programming-language syntax? 2014-09-24T20:08:00Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:08:11Z drewc just /join'd #scheme and started his racket REPL ... 2014-09-24T20:09:22Z drewc is now going to start his TI-83 emulator just for nyef 2014-09-24T20:09:45Z nyef: With a sideline on how SVO (infix operation) patterning and declared (or inferred) object types help provide auto-complete and appropriate arglist hinting in modern IDEs and how we can get something similar going for a Lisp system, maybe... 2014-09-24T20:10:44Z jasom: other than forms that bind or set values (e.g. lambda lists, let, setf) are there any forms which discard multiple values? 2014-09-24T20:11:03Z jasom: well and values itself of course 2014-09-24T20:11:14Z nyef: Sure. 2014-09-24T20:11:16Z jasom: though that's a function now that I think of it 2014-09-24T20:11:18Z nyef: IDENTITY comes to mind. 2014-09-24T20:11:30Z jasom: nyef: all functions discard it since they bind values 2014-09-24T20:11:33Z nyef: NTH-VALUE ? 2014-09-24T20:11:42Z isoraqathedh: Those are weird. 2014-09-24T20:11:45Z _tca: why did you act like that, anyway, drewc? the paste was directly relevant to your conversation... why are you talking about continuations in a common lisp channel? 2014-09-24T20:12:00Z isoraqathedh: If you use the REPL and refer to it using *, that's a binding and the extra value is discarded. 2014-09-24T20:12:08Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-24T20:12:40Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:12:52Z nyef: isoraqathedh: And is what you get for not using /, isn't it? 2014-09-24T20:12:52Z jasom: maybe a better way of putting it is: are there any special forms which return a value, discarding multiple values 2014-09-24T20:13:18Z nyef: Special forms specifically, rather than macros? 2014-09-24T20:13:24Z jasom: nyef: yes. 2014-09-24T20:14:10Z Fare: _tca: because we implement and use continuations in Lisp? 2014-09-24T20:14:13Z drewc: _tca: https://github.com/fare/lisp-interface-library/blob/master/interface/monad/continuation.lisp <--- my code in CL doing monadic continuations in CL. That is why I was talking about it. 2014-09-24T20:14:18Z jasom: I guess there's only 25 of them so I can go one by one 2014-09-24T20:14:23Z MightyJoe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-24T20:14:32Z Fare: drewc: is lisp-interface-library up to date? 2014-09-24T20:14:52Z MightyJoe joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:15:22Z drewc: Fare: hrm .... kinda sorta ... in other words... non. 2014-09-24T20:15:25Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T20:15:34Z Bicyclidine: jasom: if, i guess? 2014-09-24T20:15:58Z jasom: Bicyclidine: it doesn't, does it? (if t (values 1 2)) => 1; 2 2014-09-24T20:15:59Z jasom: right? 2014-09-24T20:16:13Z Bicyclidine: i was thinking (if (values t nil) ...) 2014-09-24T20:16:41Z jasom: right 2014-09-24T20:17:02Z Bicyclidine: which would also cover multiple-value-call's function, throw's catch tags, stuff 2014-09-24T20:17:24Z isoraqathedh: Hm. 2014-09-24T20:17:36Z isoraqathedh: The variable / is a list, not a multiple-value. 2014-09-24T20:17:38Z Bicyclidine: dunno if that's what you're thinking of, of course 2014-09-24T20:17:56Z jasom: Bicyclidine: well I'm about to add multiple values to my implementation 2014-09-24T20:18:05Z Grue`: wow this is the first time I learn about / 2014-09-24T20:18:18Z Xach: Grue`: Have you heard of +? 2014-09-24T20:18:22Z Grue`: I was just thinking the other day how * returns only one value 2014-09-24T20:18:33Z Xach: ok 2014-09-24T20:18:34Z vanila: hey Xach, pm? 2014-09-24T20:18:48Z Xach: Ok? 2014-09-24T20:18:59Z Grue`: Xach: probably heard, but it's less useful since SLIME has history 2014-09-24T20:19:11Z isoraqathedh: There's even - and +. 2014-09-24T20:19:32Z jasom: Bicyclidine: I can't think of a sane way to deal with multiple values other than having them as distinct objects from single values which means my choice is 1: everything is a multiple-value, and sometimes there's just one of them or 2: normally things aren't multiple-values but then I need to handle it specially when they are. 2014-09-24T20:19:36Z isoraqathedh: - seems a little bit hard to sue. 2014-09-24T20:19:38Z isoraqathedh: *use 2014-09-24T20:20:17Z jasom: isoraqathedh: really useful in macros intended to only be used interactively 2014-09-24T20:20:18Z Bicyclidine: jasom: in a compiled-to-usual-machine implementation i think the usual idea is having values in multiple registers 2014-09-24T20:20:29Z jasom: Bicyclidine: yeah, I'm not compiled-to-usual-machine 2014-09-24T20:20:30Z Bicyclidine: i guess that doesn't help if you're doing an interpreter etc though 2014-09-24T20:20:33Z Bicyclidine: right 2014-09-24T20:20:42Z jasom: javascript is my host language 2014-09-24T20:21:01Z jasom: parenscript solves the problem by making a really buggy implementation of multiple values 2014-09-24T20:21:09Z Bicyclidine: ha. 2014-09-24T20:21:35Z Fare: drewc: well, if you can merge and push to my or your github repo once in a while... 2014-09-24T20:21:36Z Bicyclidine: let me think, i think meister has a global array of returned values, so i guess that's (1) 2014-09-24T20:21:40Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:22:03Z Bicyclidine: kind of an emulation of registers, i spose 2014-09-24T20:22:30Z Bicyclidine: but that way you won't be consing up a structure or anything 2014-09-24T20:23:22Z Fare: there hasn't been much work since last year, and even then, not much feature work since 2012 2014-09-24T20:23:24Z drewc: Fare: yeah, I apologize actually, for I should be documenting, improving, and for that matter /using/ those interfaces. 2014-09-24T20:23:44Z Fare: no need to apologize. I haven't done much, either 2014-09-24T20:23:48Z madrik quit (Quit: lizards) 2014-09-24T20:24:16Z Fare: recent discussions at StrangeLoop and LtU reminded me of LIL's unification of programming styles. 2014-09-24T20:25:06Z Fare: maybe some day I'll try the next Hard Thing that LIL could do but currently doesn't: allow the user to write a single implementation for both mutable and immutable variants of the data structures. 2014-09-24T20:25:16Z Fare: using linear logic + region annotations. 2014-09-24T20:25:49Z Fare: that might be a better starting point for a linear lisp than my previous experiments, actually 2014-09-24T20:25:58Z Fare: since it would have direct applicability 2014-09-24T20:26:05Z drewc: Well, FWIW, I do plan on using them for (a version of) SMUG as soon as I finish with the tutorial version .... and for all the other stuff where I used my own 'hacked' IPS. 2014-09-24T20:27:26Z Fare: what kind of hacks do you have? 2014-09-24T20:27:41Z drewc: and hopefully in a production software server that I run. There are needs for the datastructures themselves ... and since I like LIL quite a bit ... 2014-09-24T20:28:29Z ndrei_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T20:28:41Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:29:09Z drewc: well, imagine LIL only all the troubles that are/were solved are not.... and there are some 5-7 year old interfaces that work and only need the hacking at compilation time .... 2014-09-24T20:29:18Z Fare: the other Hard Thing about LIL would have been optimizing it so it can compete with lack of LIL, but oh well 2014-09-24T20:29:33Z przl joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:30:41Z Fare: should lift be .call or .funcall ? 2014-09-24T20:31:01Z drewc: Now I just go ahead and 'fake' LIL's define-interface macro , which means a simple (:import-from ...) to use it in the end. 2014-09-24T20:31:29Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-09-24T20:32:31Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:32:34Z drewc: well, depends on what 'lift' we are talking about. 2014-09-24T20:33:01Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T20:33:46Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T20:34:32Z Fare: I like Filinski's "Monadic Reflection". 2014-09-24T20:34:37Z drewc: for example, lift-function ? or : there are many ways to 'lift' many things, Lift vs LiftM vs what args where vs what language etc .... 2014-09-24T20:34:49Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:35:07Z wasamasa: Fare: pardon my question, but do you have any "real-life" examples that use the monads implemented in LIL? 2014-09-24T20:35:47Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:36:23Z wasamasa: Fare: I've seen a different package that implemented monadic parser combinators which looks like a good trade-off to me to use different functions than usual to achieve short and concise code 2014-09-24T20:36:35Z wasamasa: Fare: but nothing else for the other monads 2014-09-24T20:36:42Z drewc: wasamasa: http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html <--- I did kind of document them there 2014-09-24T20:36:54Z wasamasa: drewc: thanks 2014-09-24T20:37:45Z drewc: wasamasa: and for that matter : https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/doc/tutorial.org ... "monadic parser combinators" 2014-09-24T20:37:53Z wasamasa: drewc: this looks like what I was asking for since one of the first thing it does is mentioning smug, the library I had in mind 2014-09-24T20:38:09Z drewc: and who is the author of smug? 2014-09-24T20:38:19Z wasamasa: apparently you 2014-09-24T20:38:24Z drewc: yay! 2014-09-24T20:38:39Z wasamasa: though, I've also seen mpc which looks like it's a fork of smug :P 2014-09-24T20:38:46Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T20:39:20Z drewc: so yeah, feel free to drill me on it and I can try to explain the rationality .... or I will try to not BS anyway :P 2014-09-24T20:40:00Z Fare: wasamasa: I haven't used the other monads in LIL, but I've used the data structures. 2014-09-24T20:41:09Z drewc: wasamasa: well, smug is based on the "https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/doc/monparsing.org" paper, so everything is a fork of that! 2014-09-24T20:41:21Z Fare also wonders if there can be a programming style where you declare symmetries and don't have to fill in the blank. Kind of like Bach sometimes wrote his music as puzzles whereby the reader would have to complete using symmetries 2014-09-24T20:41:45Z Bicyclidine: constraint? 2014-09-24T20:41:48Z drewc: (That is also a WIP link, so please avoid spellchecking it and do not judge me ... ah wait go ahead 2014-09-24T20:41:52Z drewc: ) 2014-09-24T20:42:22Z zlrth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-24T20:43:17Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:44:48Z Fare: Which reminds me of the miniKanren demo at StrangeLoop: webyrd implemented an interpreter for some simple programming language in Prolog style, then we could search for a Quine. 2014-09-24T20:44:50Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T20:45:46Z Fare: I suppose the very same general technique could be used to extract algorithms in Lisp. 2014-09-24T20:46:27Z drewc: Fare: oh, and right there is a "hack my own DEFINE-INTERFACE that syntax matches LIL's" : https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/doc/monparsing.org#the-parser-monad 2014-09-24T20:47:16Z vanila: miniKanren is written in scheme 2014-09-24T20:47:52Z drewc: only so the same code works (compiles/evals) with and without LIL 2014-09-24T20:47:57Z vanila: but no one is telling you to shut up/get lost like drewc did to me, because you're part of the club 2014-09-24T20:48:12Z Fare: vanila: but could be rewritten in Lisp 2014-09-24T20:49:01Z Fare: drewc: looks like the standard define-interface to me. 2014-09-24T20:49:35Z wasamasa: drewc: "3.2 The runable monad, STEP 1" 2014-09-24T20:49:36Z Fare: vanila: we're discussing things to be done in CL. Did you have a question? 2014-09-24T20:50:09Z vanila: yeah why are you defending him being so gross and rude 2014-09-24T20:50:22Z Bicyclidine: vanila asked about nested quasiquote earlier and drewc was really rude in response and i'm not sure why. 2014-09-24T20:50:35Z moyamo joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:50:45Z _tca: ^ 2014-09-24T20:50:45Z Fare: vanila: sorry you felt abused 2014-09-24T20:50:53Z vanila: because drewc considers himself better than me and wants to push me out because im not part of the clique 2014-09-24T20:51:03Z drewc: Fare: https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/pure/interface.lisp <---- it could easily be. When I first wrote that, you were not doing the one-package-per-file IIRC 2014-09-24T20:52:29Z Fare: vanila: I don't think that was what happened. 2014-09-24T20:52:46Z drewc: I am sorry that I though vanila wanted scheme and pointed him to the channel ... if that is considered rude, then I will not do such things. Sorry. And if they want to continue to focus on me, can we change the /topic pls? 2014-09-24T20:53:11Z Fare: drewc: yeah, you inspired me to do it, but I only bit the bullet after implementing asdf's package-inferred-system (as it's now called). 2014-09-24T20:54:10Z Fare: vanila: I saw you mention quasiquote, but I didn't get a question if any 2014-09-24T20:54:29Z drewc: Fare: thank nyef, as he inspired me, and before you did package-system, I was using his code. I am just a middle man 2014-09-24T20:54:34Z Bicyclidine: "when would you use nested quasiquote", i think? 2014-09-24T20:55:19Z Fare: oh, in defining macros, or macros that manipulate lists 2014-09-24T20:55:37Z Fare: also, I suppose, in match patterns for the above. 2014-09-24T20:55:47Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:55:57Z Fare: see also http://www.cliki.net/Three%20Comma%20Programmer 2014-09-24T20:56:01Z nyef: Or in functions that are called from macroexpanders... 2014-09-24T20:56:22Z Xach: "quasiquote" is not part of CL. 2014-09-24T20:56:41Z moyamo quit (Quit: moyamo) 2014-09-24T20:56:51Z C6248 joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:57:11Z Fare: Xach: unless you use fare-quasiquote, I suppoes 2014-09-24T20:57:20Z nyef: I've been a four-star C programmer, but I've only rarely gone as far as two commas. 2014-09-24T20:57:46Z Bicyclidine: when i was learning lisp i opened a stumpwm source that used three commas and gave up for a while. 2014-09-24T20:57:47Z Fare: I've seen and tried to understand three-comma programmer code. 2014-09-24T20:58:30Z rme: vanila: There's a macro named "with-x86-local-vinsn-macros" that we use in the x86 backend for ccl. It basically wraps a macrolet around the body of the macro. So, there's a backquote at the beginning of the `(macrolet ...), plus additional nested backquotes for each of the local macros that are being defined. 2014-09-24T20:58:30Z White_Flame: I think I've used more than 3 commas, but for list structure, not code generation 2014-09-24T20:58:31Z sz0_ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T20:58:32Z sz0_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-24T20:58:35Z Fare: proper use of call-with style usually limits commas to two-deep, in defining macros only. 2014-09-24T20:59:33Z nyef: Why would the with- macro for a call-with- function require more than one comma? 2014-09-24T20:59:43Z Fare: nyef: exactly 2014-09-24T20:59:51Z vanila quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-24T21:00:03Z Fare: nyef: most everything can be thus expressed in just one comma 2014-09-24T21:00:19Z nyef: So where does the second comma come in? 2014-09-24T21:00:27Z Fare: in defining macros 2014-09-24T21:00:34Z rme: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/browser/trunk/source/compiler/X86/x862.lisp#L98 if you want to look at it. 2014-09-24T21:00:51Z rme: Oh, vanila left. 2014-09-24T21:00:58Z drewc: am I allowed to mention how the lack of quasiquote or even CL:BACKQUOTE has made me use PRINT at macro-expand time? Because beyond that I try to avoid nesting, because two commas always FUBARs me. 2014-09-24T21:01:06Z C6248: I'm just reading the wiki entry for "three comma programmer" :-) 2014-09-24T21:01:27Z Fare: call-with style doesn't apply for the definition itself, though it might for its body 2014-09-24T21:02:44Z malbertife_ joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:03:38Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:04:50Z Shinmera: Thanks, CL (and SBCL) for having super sweet introspection features. Now my error pages are pretty neat. http://i.imgur.com/XUGEG2O.png 2014-09-24T21:04:55Z bbyler_tho joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:05:01Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-24T21:05:03Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:05:06Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-24T21:05:09Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-24T21:05:23Z jordonbiondo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:05:46Z zlrth joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:06:47Z Fare: Shinmera: beware to not leak sensitive data through such pages, especially on the public net. 2014-09-24T21:07:00Z Shinmera: Fare: Of course, this is just for development. 2014-09-24T21:07:12Z ilhami joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:07:23Z Shinmera: Fare: On a publicly facing server (I'd hope) the module that provides this fancy thing wouldn't be active. 2014-09-24T21:07:47Z wasamasa: Shinmera: do you just log them in production? 2014-09-24T21:07:56Z Fare: ITA's QRes had a layer of Cc information obfuscation in its error reporting, so that no such information would leak into logs. 2014-09-24T21:07:59Z drewc: Shinmera: Looks wonderful indeed. I used to have something similar using UCW, only it was nowhere near as nice as that :) 2014-09-24T21:08:11Z Shinmera: wasamasa: Depends on what you want, but usually it just prints a warning note to the logger, yes. 2014-09-24T21:08:16Z wasamasa: Shinmera: and why does the bottom part look like github's scheme lexing used on common lisp? 2014-09-24T21:08:43Z Shinmera: wasamasa: I used https://github.com/orthecreedence/highlight-lisp 2014-09-24T21:09:00Z Shinmera: wasamasa: Haven't custom-themed it yet, but I like it right now, so I might not do that at all. 2014-09-24T21:09:15Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:09:46Z Fare: Shinmera: logs are also a place where to censor sensitive information. Though hopefully your system doesn't touch credit card numbers at all, and delegates handling to e.g. Stripe. 2014-09-24T21:09:59Z wasamasa: Shinmera: I wonder whether that library stole its color theme from github because I reported a bug on that topic: https://github.com/tmm1/pygments.rb/issues/134 2014-09-24T21:10:03Z stacksmith joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:10:24Z Shinmera: Fare: It's a general purpose web-framework, but I hope that people who do intend to use it for that (I don't expect anyone to) will know to secure it. 2014-09-24T21:10:49Z Shinmera: wasamasa: the css file for that is indeed called 'github' so I'd expect it to be modelled after that 2014-09-24T21:11:24Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:11:37Z wasamasa: Shinmera: how very fun 2014-09-24T21:11:39Z Fare: there are too many general purpose web-frameworks :-/ 2014-09-24T21:11:49Z wasamasa: Shinmera: as long as it doesn't highlight " chars the wrong way 2014-09-24T21:12:15Z Shinmera: Fare: Idunno 'bout that. 2014-09-24T21:12:17Z C6248 quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-09-24T21:12:33Z Shinmera: Fare: In other languages, maybe, but I haven't found one in CL that I really liked. 2014-09-24T21:12:41Z Fare: interesting 2014-09-24T21:12:57Z stacksmith: G'day. Is there a clean way to get to bind the _second_ returned value of a function such as (truncate ...)? I am using multiple-value-bind, throwing away the first value, and getting a warning (adding insult to injury so to speak...) 2014-09-24T21:13:03Z Fare: have you tried, e.g. CLACK or UCW or ... 2014-09-24T21:13:20Z Shinmera: I've taken a look at clack and weblocks and some others that I don't recall 2014-09-24T21:13:23Z Fare doesn't dare recommend QUUX. 2014-09-24T21:13:32Z rme: stacksmith: you probably want nth-value 2014-09-24T21:13:43Z diginet quit (Quit: diginet has quit!) 2014-09-24T21:13:58Z stacksmith: rme: thank you. 2014-09-24T21:14:07Z Shinmera: But anyway, it's been a good learning experience to build a framework and it has lead to a lot of offspring libraries that I hope others will find useful as well. 2014-09-24T21:14:31Z Fare: stacksmith: if only one value, nth-value. If many, you could use (nest ... (multiple-value-bind ...) (declare ignore ...)) ...) 2014-09-24T21:14:39Z drewc: Fare: my own had IPS continuations! :) 2014-09-24T21:15:24Z Fare: a document reviewing what was wrong with other frameworks would be great 2014-09-24T21:16:00Z Shinmera: Fare: I never took an in-depth look, so my reasons are mostly based on quick snooping about. 2014-09-24T21:16:04Z stacksmith: Fare: thank you, nth-value is exactly what I needed. 2014-09-24T21:16:11Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:16:32Z diginet joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:16:35Z Shinmera: Fare: I was already deep into building mine when I did look around, which might be unfortunate, or maybe not. Will see. 2014-09-24T21:16:35Z Fare: stacksmith, thank rme 2014-09-24T21:16:48Z drewc: Well, here is the thing about frameworks. Deciding in advance the frame (lattice?) of your structure means you are bound to a certain, ahem ... foundation. 2014-09-24T21:17:55Z drewc: So I don't even use my own version of a framework, because I always seem to mess up what foundation I want to build on vs what foundation is available. 2014-09-24T21:18:33Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:18:39Z Shinmera: I've built a couple of sites with it already (that are even running publicly now) and intend on rebuilding more of my older services as soon as I get more of the edges smoothened out. 2014-09-24T21:19:22Z Shinmera: I wrote two blogs that take a quick looksie at some of the mechanisms, in case you're interested. http://blog.tymoon.eu/article/291 http://blog.tymoon.eu/article/292 2014-09-24T21:19:48Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-09-24T21:20:04Z drewc: but as Shinmera said, mine as well "has lead to a lot of offspring libraries", so I do tend to have a different framework for every webapp type thingie I write, based on the offspring. Clan of the Common Code. 2014-09-24T21:20:06Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:20:55Z Shinmera: I've spent over a year on this now, so I'm not gonna give up. Eventually I'll announce a public release and hope at least someone besides me will find it useful. 2014-09-24T21:21:17Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:21:51Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:21:54Z White_Flame: drewc: The interesting thing about taking a mindset to stick exactly to a framework is that you might discover interesting new programming styles due to those constraints 2014-09-24T21:22:23Z White_Flame: so there's exploration both ways 2014-09-24T21:22:26Z drewc: White_Flame: that is quite true, quite true indeed. 2014-09-24T21:22:53Z drewc: But, that becomes a major issue when you are developing a framework. 2014-09-24T21:22:57Z Shinmera: I've been trying to get used to other mindsets by exposing myself to code here and by jumping around to other libs like crazy. 2014-09-24T21:23:04Z White_Flame: the same thing in learning a new programming language, do try doing it "their way" and see what transpires 2014-09-24T21:23:25Z White_Flame: s/do/to/ 2014-09-24T21:24:00Z White_Flame: imo, mindsets are formed by spending time with 1 thing, moreso than quick exposures 2014-09-24T21:24:02Z drewc: What exactly are you "sticking to" if you are using your own framework... know what I mean? 2014-09-24T21:24:23Z nyef: "your guns"? 2014-09-24T21:24:43Z drewc nods 2014-09-24T21:24:44Z White_Flame: right, I thought you meant reusing one of your own frameworks you had built for something else 2014-09-24T21:24:55Z White_Flame: not in the midst of framework development 2014-09-24T21:24:58Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:25:08Z nyef: My thought is that you don't HAVE a framework until it's been re-used a couple of times. 2014-09-24T21:25:21Z White_Flame: also true 2014-09-24T21:25:26Z drewc: nyef: speaking of .... glad you popped up! 2014-09-24T21:25:37Z nyef: Oh? 2014-09-24T21:25:51Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-24T21:26:00Z pgomes quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-24T21:26:03Z wasamasa: drewc: the testimonials, roadmap and tips links on your website don't work BTW 2014-09-24T21:26:15Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-24T21:26:23Z drewc: nyef: the regexp to endpoint hander with the foo/get foo/post thing ... I really like it. 2014-09-24T21:26:47Z nyef: Do you like the way the SBCL-specific bits broke a while ago? 2014-09-24T21:26:55Z drewc: and I hate regexps, so me actually wanting to use that for other things means something about it is really nice .... 2014-09-24T21:27:20Z drewc: and I know how to compile SBCL from an old version and use the thing I have! 2014-09-24T21:27:34Z proq joined #lisp 2014-09-24T21:28:08Z nyef: What's probably nice about it is either the automatic binding of parameters to register groups or the way that the function names are automatically mapped... Or both. 2014-09-24T21:29:23Z nyef: And fixing it to work with a newer SBCL is fairly straightforward, the FDEFN stuff is still the same, but the interface for finding/making the FDEFNs changed. 2014-09-24T21:29:43Z drewc: so, yeah, precisely. Can I/we/you release it is such a way that such a thing might get fixed (for me ... trying not to beg here), or other neato things? :) 2014-09-24T21:30:10Z wasamasa: Shinmera: I just noticed the code snippets in your blog posts don't look well on 1440x900 2014-09-24T21:30:26Z wasamasa: Shinmera: since they spill over with such a narrow column 2014-09-24T21:30:44Z Shinmera: wasamasa: The width is fixed, I know it spills over. 2014-09-24T21:30:54Z Shinmera: wasamasa: But CSS is really uncooperative with
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2014-09-24T21:31:05Z White_Flame: as somebody with multiple 4k monitors,  eughhh
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2014-09-24T21:31:35Z nyef: The issue is that FDEFNs are an SBCL private interface. But that said, it's actually a speed-hack.
2014-09-24T21:31:45Z drewc: wasamasa: yeah, have not actually looked at that in about... 2 years or so ... it is on my TODO list, but thank you for reminding me.
2014-09-24T21:31:51Z nyef: Consider what happens if you just take the function name as a symbol and pass it to funcall?
2014-09-24T21:32:38Z drewc: nyef: yeah, IIRC there is either a comment about such a thing, or I simply knew why.
2014-09-24T21:32:47Z nyef: You still catch redefinitions (which is one of the main benefits of not embedding the function object directly), but now you pay a full hash lookup for each request.
2014-09-24T21:33:21Z nyef: On the other hand, given that you're walking a linked list of regexps to find a match, the hash lookup probably isn't particularly painful.
2014-09-24T21:33:23Z Shinmera: wasamasa: Idk what to really do about it, scrolling would be awful too.
2014-09-24T21:33:34Z nyef: And would let the entire scheme be portable as opposed to SBCL-specific.
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2014-09-24T21:34:08Z drewc: I always try to pass a symbol where I am not concerned about speed at all, but then again, I do not care about speed as much as we did for those sorts of things, and #+sbcl #-sbcl
2014-09-24T21:35:07Z nyef: Mmm. Premature optimization, in a way.
2014-09-24T21:37:04Z nyef: Looks like the magic is to use SB-KERNEL:FIND-OR-CREATE-FDEFN if it exists rather than SB-KERNEL:FDEFINITION-OBJECT. And there are a couple of point revisions in the 1.1.18 cycle where even that breaks because the entire interface was in flux.
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2014-09-24T21:39:17Z Vivitron`: Shinmera: I don't think the spillover is so bad, but if it bugs you I think the easy fix is more linebreaks in the code samples
2014-09-24T21:39:52Z Shinmera: Vivitron`: That's not a solution in all cases and would increase the downwards pad a lot in some.
2014-09-24T21:40:17Z Shinmera: Vivitron`: I'd love it if I could just get a background box working that'll spill over with it, but CSS won't comply with me no matter what.
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2014-09-24T21:52:36Z proq: can anyone recommend a small lisp intended for scripting C programs with decent documentation on the process involved of hooking it in?  I would like to have a REPL in my program and bang out some code rapidly
2014-09-24T21:52:56Z proq: actually, it doesn't have to be *too* small  XD
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2014-09-24T21:53:46Z resttime: proq, ECL is pretty much it regarding Common Lisp
2014-09-24T21:54:19Z nyef: I don't know about documentation, but lisp500 (lisp5000?) might work...
2014-09-24T21:54:27Z nyef: ... if it's still around.
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2014-09-24T21:55:43Z drewc: picolisp works, if we do not care about CL....
2014-09-24T21:56:20Z joshe: also tinyscheme
2014-09-24T21:56:27Z jasom: If we don't care about CL there's a bunch of schemes and schemelikes
2014-09-24T21:56:31Z drewc wonders if he can <----- himself to a #picolisp channel.... and if there is a quasiquote in picolisp! 
2014-09-24T21:56:55Z jasom: and elisp
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2014-09-24T21:57:24Z nyef: ... Clearly we need a CL implementation to compete with guile. Maybe called "CunningLisp"?
2014-09-24T21:58:45Z proq: well I asked here and not in #scheme because I like CL a bit better... but maybe I'll see which of the above can be hooked in more easily before making a final decision
2014-09-24T21:58:46Z joshe: CannyLisp
2014-09-24T21:59:02Z jasom: craftylisp
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2014-09-24T21:59:58Z drewc: proq: the issue is that 'small lisp', 'CL', and 'C' are very hard to put in the same room.
2014-09-24T22:00:02Z jasom: proq: ECL is not terrible to embed, just search for a tutorial rather than trying to use their docs
2014-09-24T22:00:02Z nyef: On the other hand, CL really is a large enough language that embedding it doesn't make all that much sense. It'd be like embedding a JVM plus a good chunk of the class library.
2014-09-24T22:00:48Z jasom: I'm actually surprised guile doesn't have a CL frontend yet; It has an elisp one though, and there is a CL in elisp implementation, right?
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2014-09-24T22:01:36Z White_Flame: nyef: Common Lies
2014-09-24T22:02:14Z jasom: ING lisp (ING's not Guile)
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2014-09-24T22:04:03Z White_Flame: jasom: should be UNG, to play off of GNU
2014-09-24T22:04:19Z resttime: would anyone have any advice to creating a triplestore and keeping it persistent?
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2014-09-24T22:04:52Z resttime: kinda reading on the subject and checking out implementations/specs
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2014-09-24T22:05:04Z nyef: resttime: Serialize everything as JSON and stick it in postgresql?
2014-09-24T22:05:48Z resttime: i'm thinking of doing native triplestore to learn how it works
2014-09-24T22:05:51Z drewc: resttime: IIRC, PAIP for triplestore and persistence is somewhat trivial depending on the requirements.
2014-09-24T22:05:51Z nyef: (Not that I should talk, I'm still rather upset at what someone with an "a SQL database is a key-value store with indexes" attitude did to my schema.)
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2014-09-24T22:07:13Z drewc: AllergoGraph does not count here does it?
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2014-09-24T22:07:30Z jasom: White_Flame: and release under 4-clause BSD :)
2014-09-24T22:07:33Z resttime: no because $$$ hahaha
2014-09-24T22:07:55Z drewc: well, it does have PAIP Prolog in it!
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2014-09-24T22:08:32Z resttime: can you explain more on PAIP, i don't think i understand the acronym
2014-09-24T22:08:42Z drewc: minion: PAIP?
2014-09-24T22:08:42Z minion: PAIP: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/PAIP
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2014-09-24T22:09:31Z resttime: oh i have a copy of the book, left it elsewhere though :/
2014-09-24T22:09:32Z jasom: PAIP is short for "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp".
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2014-09-24T22:09:51Z jasom strikes minion
2014-09-24T22:10:26Z resttime: So it talks about triple store and persistence in the book?
2014-09-24T22:10:27Z drewc: minion actually has code in it from PAIP damnit
2014-09-24T22:10:32Z resttime: I'm surprised
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2014-09-24T22:17:32Z drewc: resttime: persistence can be as trivial as (print *store* out) , and triplestore as easy as (push '(foo isa bar) *store*) ... so I am likely clueless as to your requirements and will be silent now.
2014-09-24T22:18:08Z resttime: oh a database that can store user information to the disk
2014-09-24T22:18:32Z resttime: i'm trying to learn about having users and storing data securely and such
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2014-09-24T22:19:06Z resttime: i think i've got the cryptography theory down okay with libraries
2014-09-24T22:19:15Z resttime: for encrypting passwords etc.
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2014-09-24T22:19:43Z drewc: and what is wrong with postgresql for your task?
2014-09-24T22:20:21Z resttime: nothing, i thought it'd be interesting to learn how triplestores work
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2014-09-24T22:20:54Z resttime: since i was told they were great and i can always learn sql later sine there's so much info on it
2014-09-24T22:22:06Z drewc: Ah. I thought that Lisp was somehow involved. My bad, but I hope that I can read your conclusions somewhere.
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2014-09-24T22:22:47Z resttime: thanks and technically lisp is involved since I'm doing everything in it
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2014-09-24T22:28:39Z jasom: minion's cliki lookup has been broken for a long time.
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2014-09-24T22:42:22Z faheem__1: is https://github.com/sionescu/bordeaux-threads the best available for concurrency?
2014-09-24T22:42:50Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-09-24T22:42:50Z oGMo: it's the best available for making threads
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2014-09-24T22:43:16Z oGMo: there are many things available for managing concurrency, most of them probably based on it in some way
2014-09-24T22:43:49Z drewc: epoll! async i/o! :)
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2014-09-24T22:47:35Z |3b|: jasom: you mean cliki's source view has been broken for a long time :/
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2014-09-24T22:49:56Z faheem__1: oGMo: ok, thanks. i guess i was thinking multiprocessing mostly
2014-09-24T22:50:32Z oGMo: faheem__1: it's all about what you're after, i think various MP packages have been wrapped as well
2014-09-24T22:52:38Z faheem__1: oGMo: ok
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2014-09-24T23:01:57Z stacksmith: Hey everyone.  I made a giant html file containing prettified logs of this channel (minus the noise), from April till now.  Having a single file makes it pretty easy to search for things missed and forgotten.  The file is at apple2.x10.mx/irclog/ - it's 3.6MB compressed and decompresses to a 20MB html file.  Please download it to your machine before opening...
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2014-09-24T23:02:25Z nyef: stacksmith: What, not recreating meme.b9.com?
2014-09-24T23:02:32Z nyef: (-:
2014-09-24T23:03:38Z stacksmith: nyef: what's dat?
2014-09-24T23:04:08Z drewc feels somewhat old now :)
2014-09-24T23:04:15Z jasom: |3b|: I don't even see a link for source view on it.
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2014-09-24T23:06:01Z stacksmith: nyef: just a way to see a massive log, locally...
2014-09-24T23:06:57Z |3b|: jasom: right, which is why minion fails to get the source so it can get a summary from it, the way it did before cliki was rewritten
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2014-09-24T23:07:03Z stacksmith hates slow, clumsy web apps...
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2014-09-24T23:07:26Z jasom: my #lisp.log is over 100MB now; I should probably rotate it
2014-09-24T23:08:03Z |3b|: stacksmith: see also ircbrowse.net with online searchable logs back to 2000
2014-09-24T23:08:35Z jasom: --- Day changed Sat Aug 27 2011
2014-09-24T23:08:50Z jasom: ^^^ first day change notice in my local log
2014-09-24T23:09:20Z drewc: http://ircbrowse.net/day/lisp/today/recent <--- "2014-09-25 01:08:03 +0200	 <|3b|>	stacksmith: see also ircbrowse.net with online searchable logs back to 2000"
2014-09-24T23:09:32Z stacksmith: |3b|: thanks, I know about that one.  I really prefer to have it locally thought.  Plus I am messing around with fancier searches, and more readable ways to display data...
2014-09-24T23:10:14Z |3b| would want a machine readable full log if anything, but too lazy to parse the existing logs
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2014-09-24T23:11:14Z jasom: |3b|: just convert each line to an e-mail and import it into a gmail account
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2014-09-24T23:22:01Z stacksmith: I've been playing with "heat-coded" separators between posts - they get bluer with longer time gaps...
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