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(sigh) 2014-09-16T01:55:39Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-09-16T01:55:51Z Zhivago: You don't need to, but it might be useful -- why GC aware? 2014-09-16T01:55:54Z vanila: what does it mean for a rb tree to be gc aware? 2014-09-16T01:55:56Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-09-16T01:59:25Z drmeister: It means the red/black tree will work when the nodes are moved around in memory by a compacting garbage collector. 2014-09-16T02:00:04Z vanila: how would that affect the way you implement it in lisp? 2014-09-16T02:02:26Z drmeister: If I implement it in Lisp (not preferred but acceptable) I'll have to use data structures that are already managed by the GC. If I write it in C++ (preferred) I would have to do it very carefully. 2014-09-16T02:02:42Z vanila: oh 2014-09-16T02:02:52Z vanila: so implement in C++ and use it from lisp? 2014-09-16T02:03:52Z drmeister: vanila: Right 2014-09-16T02:04:30Z vanila: ahh sorry, I didnt realize that 2014-09-16T02:06:32Z jlongste` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:06:36Z vydd_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:06:54Z arpunk quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:09:22Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:10:56Z drmeister: I think the reason hash-tables are built in data structures in Common Lisp and b/red-black/avl-trees are not is because hash tables are easy to implement so that they work with compacting garbage collectors. 2014-09-16T02:11:43Z vydd_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:13:13Z nicdev` is now known as nicdev 2014-09-16T02:13:30Z loke: I have a need to do efficient serialisation of CLOS instances to binary (for caching in memcached, to be precise). Any suggestion on what serialisation library I should be using? 2014-09-16T02:18:29Z phao quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-16T02:22:16Z TDog quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446]) 2014-09-16T02:23:17Z arpunk joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:26:56Z arademaker joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:27:45Z arademaker quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T02:27:46Z juzdan joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:27:49Z cheryllium quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:28:47Z mhd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:29:17Z drmeister: loke: I tried cl-store and cl-conspack. cl-store had problems with circular references. I'm going with cl-conspack. 2014-09-16T02:29:44Z loke: I was playing around with userial, and there seems to be a ridiculous amount of manual work with it 2014-09-16T02:32:37Z juzdan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:33:18Z drmeister: I didn't try that one. 2014-09-16T02:33:36Z drmeister: oGMo wrote cl-conspack and he hangs out here. 2014-09-16T02:35:23Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:35:59Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-09-16T02:36:16Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:36:53Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-09-16T02:37:10Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:37:10Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:37:16Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:37:46Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-09-16T02:42:22Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:43:04Z loke: Are you sue conspack can do CLOS instances? 2014-09-16T02:46:25Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:51:02Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T02:52:38Z Vivitron: drmeister: CLTL claims hash tables "are provided as primitives of Common Lisp because some implementations may need to use internal storage management strategies that would make it very difficult for the user to implement hash tables in a portable fashion." 2014-09-16T02:56:24Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:57:22Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-16T02:58:15Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-09-16T02:59:05Z Oddity quit (Quit: rip) 2014-09-16T03:02:49Z loke: Vivitron: that was probably much more true in the 80's when the spec was written though 2014-09-16T03:03:22Z loke: The core problem is sxhash, which is define dto return a fixnum, right? 2014-09-16T03:04:10Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-09-16T03:04:33Z Vivitron: like: yes, a nonnegative fixnum 2014-09-16T03:04:40Z Oddity joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:04:57Z Vivitron: loke: sorry, autocorrect 2014-09-16T03:05:16Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:07:25Z Vivitron: I'm glad they are included because they have a great ratio of usefulness to bulk of necessary documentation 2014-09-16T03:08:24Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:10:13Z theethicalegoist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:11:26Z andschwa joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:16:00Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-16T03:17:33Z badkins quit 2014-09-16T03:17:55Z H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language logs:|contact op if muted| New: Drakma-1.3.10 SBCL 1.2.3, cl-launch 4.1 2014-09-16T03:18:00Z H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language logs:|contact op if muted| New: Drakma-1.3.10, SBCL 1.2.3, cl-launch 4.1 2014-09-16T03:19:08Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:19:36Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-16T03:21:06Z phax quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T03:22:03Z juzdan joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:24:37Z jlongste` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T03:25:07Z jlongste` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:27:05Z juzdan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:38:02Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:38:21Z Grazy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:40:50Z jlongste` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T03:43:10Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:45:19Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-16T03:45:43Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:46:53Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-16T03:48:40Z leo2007 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1) 2014-09-16T03:50:32Z beach joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:50:37Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:50:42Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-09-16T03:51:14Z loke: drmeister: OK, I just wrote a MOP-thingy for conspack 2014-09-16T03:51:19Z loke: now it does my objects too 2014-09-16T03:52:08Z vanila: good morning :) 2014-09-16T03:54:39Z karswell` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:55:21Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T03:55:55Z vanila: I think I have to do analysis to determine whether or not its possible to stack allocate a closure 2014-09-16T03:57:16Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:58:33Z jlongste` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T03:59:35Z beach: vanila: Did you revise the phases of your compiler so that it uses the lexical environment? 2014-09-16T04:00:27Z vanila: beach, I don't think so - I'm not sure what that means exactly 2014-09-16T04:04:00Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T04:05:52Z beach: vanila: I don't know where to start, or whether I should start at all. It depends on your objectives. 2014-09-16T04:06:44Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T04:07:11Z beach: vanila: So if you can tell me in a phrase or two why you are doing this, it might help me make a decision. 2014-09-16T04:08:43Z vanila: It's to gain experience in writing a compiler so i have the confidence and knowledge to implement more advanced languages 2014-09-16T04:08:55Z beach: OK, then you need to know about environments. 2014-09-16T04:10:01Z vanila: Is the lexical environment used for the macro system like lexical closures? or am I mixing up 2014-09-16T04:10:14Z beach: The "compilation environment" (in Common Lisp HyperSpec terminology) is a mapping from symbols to what they stand for. So for instance if you have (let ((x 10)) (+ x 20)), the compiler knows that the inner x is a local variable. 2014-09-16T04:10:53Z beach: But if you do (let ((x 10)) (x 20)), the environment will tell the compiler that x is not a function (I am using CL as an example). 2014-09-16T04:11:24Z beach: In CL, you could also say (let ((let 10)) (+ let 20)). 2014-09-16T04:11:37Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-09-16T04:11:53Z beach: The environment is "augmented" when the LET binding is seen so that the inner LET is known to be a local variable. 2014-09-16T04:12:43Z vanila: so as I traverse the program I can build the environment by adding to it every time we walk under a binder 2014-09-16T04:12:52Z beach: Exactly. 2014-09-16T04:12:55Z vanila: ok! 2014-09-16T04:13:48Z beach: So you can't really turn LET into LAMBDA without having an environment. 2014-09-16T04:14:00Z beach: ... in your stage 2. 2014-09-16T04:15:33Z beach: For a language like CL, you also need for the environment to contain local macros and symbol macros. For a statically-typed language, you need the association between symbols and types. 2014-09-16T04:16:23Z juzdan joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:16:26Z beach: I am fairly sure that LiSP talks about this. Have you read it? 2014-09-16T04:16:40Z vanila: I've skimmed through a good bit of it but i haven't read it in detail 2014-09-16T04:17:16Z vanila: i haved looked at some write ups from other compilers too 2014-09-16T04:17:21Z beach: I don't want to spoil your fun. I just want to warn you that you might have to ditch what you are doing later. 2014-09-16T04:17:46Z vanila: well, ive had two failed attempts 2014-09-16T04:17:55Z vanila: but each time I learned a new thing] 2014-09-16T04:18:05Z beach: Fair enough. 2014-09-16T04:19:39Z vanila: which parts will i have to ditch? 2014-09-16T04:19:45Z beach: I won't say anything else then. And you will learn when you turn the inner LET of (let ((let (f y))) ...) into a lambda. :) 2014-09-16T04:20:39Z codeburg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-09-16T04:20:54Z juzdan quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T04:21:06Z vanila: ill think about it som more :) and thanks for discussing with me 2014-09-16T04:21:17Z beach: Sure. 2014-09-16T04:21:25Z drmeister: loke: Great! 2014-09-16T04:21:46Z zlrth joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:21:52Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-09-16T04:21:52Z MouldyOldBones quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-09-16T04:23:53Z billstclair quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T04:24:22Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T04:25:13Z mhd quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-16T04:25:17Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:26:44Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-09-16T04:30:24Z loke: Here's the implementation if anyone is interested: http://paste.lisp.org/display/143737 2014-09-16T04:31:33Z Amaan quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-09-16T04:32:00Z vanila: I'll add lexical environments an d that will help with closure analysis 2014-09-16T04:32:18Z vanila: good night 2014-09-16T04:32:25Z beach: 'night vanila. 2014-09-16T04:37:23Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:37:52Z codeburg joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:38:17Z pjb: drmeister: what have you against com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.llrbtree? 2014-09-16T04:38:33Z vanila quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-16T04:40:52Z mr-foobar quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-09-16T04:41:20Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:43:52Z BlueRavenGT quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T04:44:23Z patbarron joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:45:54Z madrik joined #lisp 2014-09-16T04:46:30Z 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2014-09-16T09:52:36Z splittist_: lazy#lisp: Should I be seeing problems with fare-quasiquote with sbcl 1.2.1 and up-to-date quicklisp? 2014-09-16T09:52:53Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-16T09:52:56Z splittist_: specifically, when trying to ql serapeum 2014-09-16T09:53:37Z akkad: why does general use so many Alpha assembly .as files? 2014-09-16T09:53:50Z akkad: genera 2014-09-16T09:54:09Z akkad: sorry wrong chan 2014-09-16T09:55:12Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:00:01Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:00:09Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T10:01:01Z karupa is now known as zz_karupa 2014-09-16T10:02:47Z Elench quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T10:03:05Z Elench joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:05:36Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:07:27Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:14:36Z ysz joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:15:18Z MouldyOldBones quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T10:15:36Z ysz: anybody used alc.? 2014-09-16T10:15:37Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:16:40Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:16:44Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:18:01Z Xach: splittist_: c'mon. what problems? 2014-09-16T10:19:29Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T10:19:57Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:20:09Z madrik quit (Quit: away) 2014-09-16T10:23:17Z Xach: Ok, I see the issue. 2014-09-16T10:23:24Z Xach: the issue created on github, that is 2014-09-16T10:24:32Z stanislav joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:25:37Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:31:02Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:32:01Z `JRG: nice load of utilities, by the way 2014-09-16T10:32:30Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:32:31Z `JRG: love serapeum:op 2014-09-16T10:33:06Z wasamasa: can't remember its name 2014-09-16T10:33:37Z wasamasa: fortunately, alexandria is simple to remember 2014-09-16T10:33:56Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:36:06Z splittist_: I look through these libraries and think ' wow, what an elegant way to do X'! And then when I actually come to do X don't notice, and don't remember to use the utility... 2014-09-16T10:36:27Z `JRG: if you know about alexandria you should know about serapea 2014-09-16T10:37:02Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:37:07Z Xach: My education has clearly fallen short. 2014-09-16T10:37:11Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T10:37:32Z stassats: did they burn serapeum too? 2014-09-16T10:37:36Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:38:36Z wasamasa reads the wikipedia article 2014-09-16T10:38:43Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:38:49Z stassats: it says it was just destroyed 2014-09-16T10:38:55Z wasamasa: I guess the name is a stab at the fact it utilizes lisp idioms from the entire family 2014-09-16T10:39:33Z ysz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-16T10:39:42Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:42:44Z drmeister: pjb: what have I against com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.llrbtree? Well, I think it's a very long name for some software that I didn't know existed. 2014-09-16T10:45:48Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-09-16T10:46:31Z mishoo__ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:46:48Z Tordek quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:46:50Z abbe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:46:55Z Tordek joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:47:12Z abbe_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:47:18Z shka: sounds like java 2014-09-16T10:48:08Z bend3r quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:48:42Z bend3r joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:51:03Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:51:23Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:52:51Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:53:45Z lonjil quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:53:55Z lonjil joined #lisp 2014-09-16T10:54:12Z jegaxd26 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:56:06Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T10:59:22Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:00:15Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:00:55Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé) 2014-09-16T11:03:20Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:04:04Z XimoVLC joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:07:59Z XimoVLC quit 2014-09-16T11:09:43Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:10:00Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T11:10:20Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:10:29Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:11:57Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:13:36Z TomRS``` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:15:08Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:16:29Z knob joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:20:59Z Xach left #lisp 2014-09-16T11:21:42Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:23:24Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:27:34Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:31:42Z jegaxd26` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:31:50Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:38:06Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:41:13Z alchemis7 left #lisp 2014-09-16T11:41:13Z alchemis7 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:42:08Z TomRS```: is the name: variable a reserved name in CL? I get this error: Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when proclaiming VARIABLE 2014-09-16T11:42:35Z stassats: it is 2014-09-16T11:42:39Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T11:42:40Z TomRS```: damn 2014-09-16T11:42:42Z TomRS```: :) 2014-09-16T11:42:44Z stassats: clhs documentation 2014-09-16T11:42:44Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 2014-09-16T11:42:50Z easye joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:42:50Z TomRS```: stassats: thanks! 2014-09-16T11:43:17Z stassats: they should have used keywords instead 2014-09-16T11:44:04Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:45:16Z TomRS```: stassats: they? 2014-09-16T11:45:23Z stassats: They 2014-09-16T11:45:36Z TomRS```: stassats: they who? 2014-09-16T11:45:38Z TomRS```: :) 2014-09-16T11:45:46Z stassats: just They 2014-09-16T11:45:50Z TomRS```: :D 2014-09-16T11:46:14Z TomRS```: ok.. will have to use ugly name then :) thanks again! 2014-09-16T11:48:20Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:49:10Z kcj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T11:50:12Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-09-16T11:54:06Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T11:54:58Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:55:02Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T11:55:30Z mingvs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T11:55:37Z mingvs joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:55:40Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:56:43Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:57:33Z przl joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:58:05Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-09-16T11:58:40Z optikalmouser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T12:00:13Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:02:46Z `JRG: regular expressions on streams anyone? 2014-09-16T12:03:39Z `JRG: like, let's say, a stateful cl-ppcre which can be fed with individual characters 2014-09-16T12:04:55Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T12:05:05Z stassats: what about backtracking? 2014-09-16T12:05:24Z wasamasa: who needs backtracking anyways 2014-09-16T12:05:28Z wasamasa: NFAs ftw 2014-09-16T12:05:33Z lyanchih_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:08:15Z splittist_: `JRG: there was some stuff in Climacs, I think, where the buffers are treated as a stream. 2014-09-16T12:08:37Z `JRG: ok, my question was more on the lines: "does anything exist yet?"... and last time I checked, "regular" regular expressions could be implemented with simple FSMs 2014-09-16T12:09:10Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:09:32Z `JRG: splittist_: thanks, will check that out 2014-09-16T12:11:26Z Blkt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T12:11:32Z Blkt joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:11:40Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-09-16T12:11:44Z kuzy000_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:11:48Z fe[nl]ix quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T12:11:56Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:12:06Z theos joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:13:43Z splittist_: I may be misremembering... 2014-09-16T12:14:12Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:16:38Z Elench quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-09-16T12:19:06Z Elench joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:20:53Z rme joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:31:07Z k-stz joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:31:34Z wasamasa: `JRG: yeah, these are a way to not have regular expressions with extraordinarily high complexity 2014-09-16T12:31:46Z wasamasa: `JRG: I imagine you could use them to work on streams, too 2014-09-16T12:35:03Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-16T12:35:05Z lyanchih_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T12:35:32Z H4ns: does slime have a built in slot-addition template (i.e. i want to add a slot and have slime add :initarg and :reader/:accessor) 2014-09-16T12:36:09Z stassats: no built-in 2014-09-16T12:36:49Z H4ns: stassats: is there a contrib for that? or something else that i could use? 2014-09-16T12:36:57Z stassats: i just use https://github.com/stassats/emacs-config/blob/master/init_lisp.el#L326 2014-09-16T12:37:39Z madrik joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:38:42Z H4ns: stassats: thanks! 2014-09-16T12:39:09Z stassats: you need to it start from (defclass () (.. [])) 2014-09-16T12:39:31Z stassats: and just press Enter for the last one 2014-09-16T12:40:09Z benny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T12:40:10Z H4ns: works great, thanks agaiN! 2014-09-16T12:40:35Z benny joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:41:33Z ircbrowse quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T12:41:33Z lpaste_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T12:41:46Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:42:24Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-09-16T12:42:42Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:43:31Z cpt_nemo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T12:46:07Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:46:52Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T12:47:27Z ircbrowse joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:48:55Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-16T12:48:57Z lpaste joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:50:46Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp 2014-09-16T12:56:05Z sjl- is now known as sjl 2014-09-16T12:58:30Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:00:09Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T13:01:08Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:04:04Z jegaxd26` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T13:08:42Z TomRS```: is there a simple way to link objects bidirectionally? e.g. the owner of a car is saved in car object and the car is saved in the owner (person) object? I mean I can create both and link them afterwards, but can it be done more elegantly? (make-car :model 'bmw :owner (make-person :car x?x?x)) 2014-09-16T13:11:13Z H4ns: TomRS```: i'd do it explicitly 2014-09-16T13:12:01Z TomRS```: H4ns: ok thanks 2014-09-16T13:12:01Z H4ns: TomRS```: but you _could_ use an initialize-instance method on your car class which updates the owner when the car is created. 2014-09-16T13:12:37Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:12:38Z H4ns: (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((car car) &key owner) (pushnew car (cars owner))) 2014-09-16T13:12:43Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T13:12:57Z harish_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T13:13:23Z TomRS```: H4ns: thanks for the idea! 2014-09-16T13:13:24Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:14:13Z H4ns: pushnew is not needed, really. the function is only called for new cars anyway, so go for push if you do it like this. 2014-09-16T13:15:01Z TomRS```: ok.. have to think about it.. maybe I'll change the structure of everything again so I can build it cleaner somehow :) 2014-09-16T13:15:04Z backupthrick quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T13:15:29Z jegaxd26` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:15:56Z jegaxd26` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T13:15:57Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:20:53Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-16T13:23:13Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:24:44Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:26:42Z pjb: TomRS```: you might be interested by my define-association macro, you can see it in: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/clext/association.lisp ; examples of usage in https://gitorious.org/abnotation/abnotation/source/src/core/model.lisp 2014-09-16T13:26:44Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:27:13Z pjb: TomRS```: it creates automatically the needed slots, and methods to establish bidirectional links when that's specified. 2014-09-16T13:27:36Z jkaye_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:27:40Z TomRS```: pjb: thanks! I'll look into it!! 2014-09-16T13:28:18Z pjb: define-association is a little hairy, and not complete yet. Eventually, I'd want it to deal with all the possible cases offered by UML associations. 2014-09-16T13:28:22Z zlrth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:30:01Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:32:53Z jkaye_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:33:01Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-16T13:33:12Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:33:26Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:33:44Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:33:51Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:37:28Z snits joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:38:47Z jkaye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T13:39:52Z _snits_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:45:41Z TomRS```: H4ns: thanks to your help I have bidirectional linked objects :) http://paste.lisp.org/display/143740 2014-09-16T13:45:53Z rme joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:45:56Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:48:14Z H4ns: ieh, define-class 2014-09-16T13:48:28Z stassats: is that scheme? 2014-09-16T13:48:52Z H4ns: no, that is "defclass is so verbose, so let me come up with this better version of it" 2014-09-16T13:49:50Z dlowe: isn't that usually pronounced defclass*? 2014-09-16T13:50:48Z TomRS```: yeah.. soryy.. using a macro there 2014-09-16T13:51:18Z TomRS```: it falls back to defclass or to structures depending on settings 2014-09-16T13:51:21Z H4ns: TomRS```: give up on it. 2014-09-16T13:51:31Z H4ns: TomRS```: just a word of advice 2014-09-16T13:52:54Z stassats: who follows advice nowadays? 2014-09-16T13:54:23Z eudoxia: ah, yes, the old "defclass macro that writes initargs and accessors for me" 2014-09-16T13:54:43Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T13:55:28Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:55:36Z nell left #lisp 2014-09-16T13:55:39Z TomRS```: what's bad with having a waprrer macro for defclass that allows me to switch between defclass and structures? 2014-09-16T13:55:53Z TomRS```: *wrapper 2014-09-16T13:56:12Z stassats: it's bad because when somebody else reads your code he would have no idea what's going on 2014-09-16T13:56:21Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:56:32Z stassats: and the fact that everybody is writing their own different defclass macros doesn't help 2014-09-16T13:56:34Z H4ns: TomRS```: also, you'll rarely want to "switch to structures" anyway 2014-09-16T13:56:49Z dlowe: I pretty much ignore structures entirely these days. 2014-09-16T13:57:04Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T13:57:10Z dlowe: Every time I tried to use one, I eventually got to the point where I wanted a class. 2014-09-16T13:57:10Z TomRS```: ok, was the idea of my mentor.. I wouldn't be able to write this macro anyways 2014-09-16T13:57:27Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T13:57:48Z TomRS```: dlowe: I understand 2014-09-16T13:58:37Z TomRS```: well.. I'm trying to assis my mentor and he wants this macro, which encapsulates both :) but good to see your points :) 2014-09-16T13:58:42Z splittist_: As practice for writing a more tailored macro so some domain-specific thingy it might be useful for learning about destructuring etc. 2014-09-16T13:58:47Z TomRS```: I mean: you make a good point 2014-09-16T13:59:12Z eudoxia: dlowe: same 2014-09-16T14:00:23Z Paul_McFreely joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:00:26Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:02:55Z dlowe: I've been working with eliminating accessors from my code as much as possible, leaning on with-slots and providing meaningful generic functions to operate on the objects. 2014-09-16T14:05:26Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:05:33Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T14:05:34Z mr-foobar quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-09-16T14:07:46Z bambams_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:08:46Z ahungry_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T14:09:41Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T14:10:33Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T14:11:47Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:13:31Z janmuffino joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:14:02Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:16:17Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T14:17:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:18:44Z DGASAU quit (Quit: restart) 2014-09-16T14:21:52Z Amaan joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:22:39Z cy joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:24:24Z ahungry_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T14:25:12Z cz3141 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:25:27Z peterhil quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T14:25:46Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:27:56Z peterhil joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:28:29Z J_Arcane left #lisp 2014-09-16T14:28:49Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:29:00Z oGMo: loke: conspack does clos instances, but you still have to do _some_ work. it could be automated slightly more for standard-object instances, with MOP, but it also allows for the general case 2014-09-16T14:29:06Z hugod joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:29:25Z stassats: trick of the day: to do something if the new value is different (unless (eql (value x) (shiftf (value x) (process-new-value new-value))) ...) 2014-09-16T14:29:30Z stassats: without saving it into a variable 2014-09-16T14:30:56Z oGMo: loke: and i just realized that's another thing i didn't document heh 2014-09-16T14:33:45Z harish joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:33:55Z chadhs joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:34:51Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:35:13Z oGMo: stassats: cute, though then you should make it into a macro with a clear name, like (when-changed (x (process...)) ...) 2014-09-16T14:36:37Z stassats: no thanks 2014-09-16T14:37:14Z billstclair joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:37:14Z billstclair quit (Changing host) 2014-09-16T14:37:14Z billstclair joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:39:36Z beach joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:39:50Z beach: Good afternoon everyone! 2014-09-16T14:41:32Z jlongste` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:42:10Z splittist_: beeeaaaachhhh! 2014-09-16T14:42:24Z splittist_ isn't quite sure that came out right 2014-09-16T14:42:29Z beach: What did I do? 2014-09-16T14:42:42Z Shinmera 's afternoon is not as good as he'd like so far 2014-09-16T14:42:46Z Shinmera is looking at Eiffel 2014-09-16T14:42:53Z splittist_: It was meant to be enthusiastic (: 2014-09-16T14:43:00Z beach: Whew! 2014-09-16T14:43:27Z TomRS```: :) 2014-09-16T14:43:36Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:43:56Z eudoxia: Shinmera: why 2014-09-16T14:44:04Z Shinmera: eudoxia: University class :( 2014-09-16T14:44:26Z reb` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:45:06Z eudoxia: Shinmera: it's ok shin-shin, i'm a terrible student too 2014-09-16T14:45:14Z eudoxia: i blame my lisp addiction also 2014-09-16T14:45:18Z Shinmera sobs 2014-09-16T14:45:35Z stassats: you don't like bondage and discipline? 2014-09-16T14:45:44Z eudoxia has transcended sobbing, and reached a state of Zen-like acceptance 2014-09-16T14:46:06Z harish quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T14:46:09Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T14:46:39Z harish joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:46:39Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:47:20Z TomRS``` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T14:47:38Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:48:24Z reb` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T14:48:29Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T14:49:05Z splittist_: I seem to remember that when Eiffel was a thing there lots of Design by Contract macros folks played with. For, I imagine, about 15 minutes. 2014-09-16T14:49:28Z splittist_: there BEING lots. Grr. Sleep deprivation. 2014-09-16T14:49:32Z stassats: http://www.gauss.muc.de/tools/dbc/dbc.lisp ? 2014-09-16T14:50:12Z stanislav quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-09-16T14:50:56Z splittist_: stassats: quite possibly (: 2014-09-16T14:51:00Z Elench quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T14:51:44Z H4ns: splittist_: in ita's qres, there were several such macros all over the place. 2014-09-16T14:52:01Z reb joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:52:07Z H4ns: splittist_: one of the more unloveable things about qres, really :) 2014-09-16T14:52:13Z H4ns: define-strict-function, iirc 2014-09-16T14:52:47Z H4ns: so it resonated much longer, and even over the pond... 2014-09-16T14:52:50Z peterhil` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:52:58Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2014-09-16T14:53:56Z pgomes quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2014-09-16T14:56:09Z peterhil quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T15:02:49Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-09-16T15:05:23Z fnord joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:06:09Z fortitude joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:07:02Z xificurC quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T15:10:16Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T15:10:53Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:13:38Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:14:44Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:15:20Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:17:14Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:19:35Z jlongste` is now known as jlongster 2014-09-16T15:20:48Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T15:20:50Z Elench joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:23:08Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:24:53Z TomRS` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:26:09Z TomRS` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:26:30Z TomRS` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:28:22Z TomRS quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T15:31:34Z TomRS` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:31:51Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:37:07Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-16T15:37:45Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:38:04Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:39:28Z Cymew quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:39:52Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T15:41:17Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:41:47Z mr-foobar joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:43:50Z chocolait joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:44:23Z chocolait 2014-09-16T15:45:36Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:48:07Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T15:50:56Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:52:26Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:54:25Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:55:16Z pjb: TomRS: I've written several such macros. Notably, a define-entity can be useful when you're describing an entity-relation or a UML model (with generation of lisp code along with SQL and stuff). 2014-09-16T15:55:20Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-16T15:56:36Z pjb: TomRS: but defclass is much better: you don't have to reload your program when you change fields, and you can add fields dynamically as with define-association, and do easily other introspections on classes. 2014-09-16T15:57:23Z TomRS: pjb: thanks for the intel 2014-09-16T16:00:47Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T16:01:06Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:05:14Z daedalus316 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:05:48Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T16:07:36Z daedalus316 quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T16:09:14Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T16:10:15Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:14:16Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:20:36Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:33:52Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:34:16Z chocolait quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-09-16T16:35:09Z chocolait joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:35:27Z stanislav joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:36:33Z vanila joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:36:33Z chocolait quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T16:37:17Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:38:12Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:39:24Z zlrth joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:42:00Z iqool joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:42:14Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T16:42:27Z sigjuice quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-09-16T16:42:47Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:43:19Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T16:43:39Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:44:06Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-09-16T16:46:10Z chocolait joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:49:02Z chocolait left #lisp 2014-09-16T16:49:56Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:50:45Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T16:51:04Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-09-16T16:51:04Z bambams_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:52:33Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-16T16:53:33Z jegaxd26 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T16:54:22Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:55:23Z telebyte joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:56:06Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:56:17Z telebyte quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T16:56:39Z peterhil joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:56:51Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:57:30Z abbe_ is now known as abbe 2014-09-16T16:57:47Z peterhil` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T16:58:56Z xyjprc joined #lisp 2014-09-16T16:59:26Z Elench quit (Killed (sendak.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))) 2014-09-16T17:02:33Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:04:14Z peterhil quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-09-16T17:04:37Z foom2 is now known as foom 2014-09-16T17:05:42Z peterhil joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:05:52Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:12:47Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:15:49Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-09-16T17:17:51Z phao joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:21:37Z TomRS` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:22:13Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:22:42Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:25:14Z TomRS quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:26:25Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T17:26:27Z wchun quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:26:52Z cy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:27:46Z peccu2 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:28:10Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:28:14Z splittist_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T17:28:26Z cy joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:28:34Z splittist_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:29:09Z peccu2 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:30:29Z peterhil` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:30:48Z peterhil quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:31:04Z blakbunnie27 quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!) 2014-09-16T17:31:22Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:34:18Z blakbunnie27 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:34:59Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-16T17:35:27Z iqool quit (Quit: iqool) 2014-09-16T17:36:00Z peterhil` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:36:02Z TomRS` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T17:36:14Z TomRS` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:36:33Z TomRS`: after code refactoring I seem to have a paranthesis error in some 2014-09-16T17:36:33Z TomRS`: buffer. emacs won't tell me where the problem is. how are you 2014-09-16T17:36:33Z TomRS`: handling such issues? I found an interesting solution here: 2014-09-16T17:36:33Z TomRS`: http://www.dotemacs.de/dotfiles/StephenTse.emacs.html don't know how 2014-09-16T17:36:35Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:36:36Z TomRS`: to install that though (I mean the first defun sounds promising) 2014-09-16T17:36:47Z dlowe: M-x check-parens 2014-09-16T17:36:52Z TomRS`: :) 2014-09-16T17:36:54Z stanislav quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-09-16T17:36:58Z TomRS`: sounds good 2014-09-16T17:47:23Z peterhil joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:47:36Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:49:47Z peterhil` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:50:38Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T17:53:06Z peterhil quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:53:58Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T17:54:29Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-09-16T17:57:52Z peterhil` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T17:59:42Z cheryllium quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:00:09Z puchacz joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:03:03Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:06:38Z Oberon4278 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:07:10Z beach left #lisp 2014-09-16T18:07:27Z sz0 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:08:30Z Oberon4278: So this may be the wrong channel, but... if I write a program to analyze reports, at what point does it stop being simply an analyzer and start getting into the realm of AI? 2014-09-16T18:09:13Z dlowe: when it starts talking to you 2014-09-16T18:09:15Z Bike: there's no meaningful boundary 2014-09-16T18:09:22Z Oberon4278: ok 2014-09-16T18:09:54Z Oberon4278: mostly the reason I ask is because I'm approaching such a task and I'm curious whether picking up PAIP would be useful 2014-09-16T18:10:16Z Bike: PAIP is mostly historical. it's good for lisp and for history but not for like, general AI. norvig has a newer book on that. 2014-09-16T18:10:21Z Oberon4278: oh, ok 2014-09-16T18:10:46Z Oberon4278: AI: A Modern Approach? 2014-09-16T18:11:05Z Bike: yeah 2014-09-16T18:11:38Z joneshf_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:12:29Z TomRS`: I managed to screw my lisp :) getting now: Control stack guard page temporarily disabled: proceed with caution (this is a stackoverflow, right?) 2014-09-16T18:12:44Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:13:02Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-16T18:14:20Z dlowe: TomRS`: yes. 2014-09-16T18:14:26Z TomRS`: darn 2014-09-16T18:14:34Z TomRS`: :) 2014-09-16T18:14:45Z joneshf quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:15:05Z TomRS`: again I have no clue of its origin :( have to dig... 2014-09-16T18:15:22Z dlowe: TomRS`: usually recursion without a terminating clause 2014-09-16T18:16:30Z TomRS`: dlowe: I am unaware of using recursion :) at least not on purpose.. could have something to do with the bidirectional links between objects.. maybe I am looping there :) 2014-09-16T18:17:25Z TomRS`: dlowe: thanks1 2014-09-16T18:18:04Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-09-16T18:18:22Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:22:04Z joneshf joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:22:08Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:22:45Z cheryllium quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:23:34Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:24:47Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:25:24Z joneshf_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:25:39Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:26:19Z sz0 quit 2014-09-16T18:26:39Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-09-16T18:28:21Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:29:42Z cheryllium quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:31:30Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:31:37Z Elench joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:31:48Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:32:07Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:32:12Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:32:13Z TomRS` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T18:32:48Z mhd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:32:49Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:32:58Z oGMo: there, documented conspack instance encoding, and added (defencoding class-name slot-1...) for the easy cases 2014-09-16T18:33:33Z oGMo: i'd use MOP to look up slots, but i'm not sure how portable or error-prone that would end up 2014-09-16T18:33:39Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:35:01Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T18:35:28Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:38:21Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:42:50Z Shinmera quit (Quit: bbl) 2014-09-16T18:44:18Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:48:43Z `JRG joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:48:51Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T18:49:41Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:52:10Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:52:13Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:53:10Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T18:53:14Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:53:52Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T18:55:47Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:57:02Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:58:48Z puchacz: hi, has anybody used hunchentoot with blueimp uploader from jquery pls? 2014-09-16T18:59:25Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T18:59:50Z Aranshada|W joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:01:49Z tadni quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T19:02:26Z tadni joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:04:19Z madrik quit (Quit: sleep) 2014-09-16T19:04:23Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:05:31Z gryyy joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:05:42Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:08:22Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:11:11Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T19:11:18Z alexherbo2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0) 2014-09-16T19:13:01Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T19:13:23Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:14:27Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:18:40Z shka joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:19:11Z shka: ave tux 2014-09-16T19:20:33Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-16T19:20:39Z john_minetest joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:21:55Z Paul_McFreely quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-16T19:21:57Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:22:14Z john_minetest: Hey, I just found (common) LISP and it looks pretty intuitive. I tried clisp and sbcl, but it doesn't seem to be possible to compile x86(_64) bytecode with clisp, and compiling with sbcl seems pretty complicated. 2014-09-16T19:22:22Z Aranshada|W quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:22:31Z Paul_McFreely joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:22:39Z knob quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-16T19:23:12Z john_minetest: Is there a way to easily compile lisp to x86(_64) executable codes, without using sbmc and do strange things like "(sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die "hello.exe" :toplevel #'main :executable t)" ? 2014-09-16T19:24:24Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:24:24Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:25:22Z dlowe: john_minetest: nope. that's as straightforward as it gets. 2014-09-16T19:25:57Z foom: there are libraries that package that up for you. 2014-09-16T19:26:18Z dlowe: though sbcl does compile to the machine architecture. 2014-09-16T19:26:18Z foom: there's cl-launch, buildapp, at least. 2014-09-16T19:26:46Z dlowe: even without having a more conventional executable 2014-09-16T19:26:51Z john_minetest: Hmm, okay. 2014-09-16T19:27:37Z Ven: Oh wow. I just found pharen. 2014-09-16T19:28:47Z john_minetest: Is it possible to compile lisp to object code and link it together afterwards? 2014-09-16T19:29:07Z dlowe: Not really. It doesn't quite work like that. 2014-09-16T19:29:21Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:29:25Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:29:32Z dlowe: I take that back, you might be able to with ecl 2014-09-16T19:30:12Z dlowe: Most lispers don't develop with an edit/compile/run/kill cycle 2014-09-16T19:30:13Z foom: that's what a fasl is 2014-09-16T19:30:19Z dlowe: ... sort of 2014-09-16T19:30:23Z foom: yea, sort of 2014-09-16T19:30:29Z foom: but it has machine code in it 2014-09-16T19:32:10Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:32:29Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:32:54Z cheryllium quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T19:33:40Z foom: I'm currently pondering the idea that image-saving is a bad concept; there should be a binary output of the compiler that does get linked together (not via "load"), and eval-when :load-toplevel should be run at startup time. 2014-09-16T19:33:50Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-16T19:34:10Z Aranshada|W joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:34:46Z dlowe: heh. good luck using macros with normal functions, then. 2014-09-16T19:34:48Z foom: I haven't really thought it through, but it seems potentially reasonable. :) 2014-09-16T19:34:55Z foom: "using macros with normal functions"? 2014-09-16T19:35:28Z dlowe: yeah. Like, I define a macro that uses a function I have previously defined, perhaps in another file. 2014-09-16T19:35:33Z foom: That's at compile-time 2014-09-16T19:35:46Z foom: After compiling, you have a bunch of fasls sitting on disk 2014-09-16T19:35:53Z dlowe: How does the macro access the function if the function is locked up in the binary output of a compiler? 2014-09-16T19:36:04Z dlowe: You can concatenate sbcl fasls together 2014-09-16T19:36:10Z foom: Yes. 2014-09-16T19:36:43Z foom: So, the standard binary distribution should in effect be like loading a concatenated fasl. 2014-09-16T19:36:58Z foom: Rather than the usual method being to pre-load everything and dump an image 2014-09-16T19:37:08Z dlowe: Sounds a lot slower than just mmapping an image 2014-09-16T19:37:25Z dlowe: I mean, you think startup times are slow now 2014-09-16T19:37:27Z foom: Yes, it sucks right now. But I think the semantics are better. 2014-09-16T19:37:55Z foom: The question is then, to keep the semantics without the slow. 2014-09-16T19:38:17Z foom: (Which seems probably doable). So the real question is whether the semantics are better enough to care. 2014-09-16T19:38:38Z john_minetest: I want to do some stuff that is only possible with assembly. And I want to link that together with already existing lisp stuff. 2014-09-16T19:39:00Z foom: sorry, I derailed the conversation from your question. :) 2014-09-16T19:39:24Z puchacz: john_minetest: I heard ECL can do it 2014-09-16T19:39:28Z foom: Just put your asm stuff in a C library 2014-09-16T19:39:38Z foom: then you can use most any lisp's FFI support to call it 2014-09-16T19:39:41Z dlowe: doesn't sbcl have an assembler built in? 2014-09-16T19:39:54Z prxq: dlowe: yes 2014-09-16T19:40:01Z foom: sure. You can also write an SBCL vop to do whatever it is 2014-09-16T19:40:06Z prxq: but it is not easy to use 2014-09-16T19:40:16Z prxq: there is a tutorial somewhere 2014-09-16T19:40:21Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:40:36Z dlowe: ah, I thought it might just be (sb-asm:assemble pushd %eax ...) 2014-09-16T19:41:57Z prxq: dlowe: that would be funny indeed 2014-09-16T19:41:58Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:42:49Z pnpuff quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T19:45:17Z TomRS quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:45:56Z john_minetest left #lisp 2014-09-16T19:51:18Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:51:25Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:52:00Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T19:56:38Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:57:40Z francogrex: if you know the machine instructions already it's very easy to poke them into emory from any lisp 2014-09-16T19:58:32Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-16T19:59:06Z francogrex: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Machine_code#Common_Lisp 2014-09-16T20:00:30Z pecg joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:01:36Z clapautius joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:02:23Z xyjprc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T20:03:23Z shka quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0) 2014-09-16T20:04:47Z Neet_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:06:05Z francogrex: for sbcl vops: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15350409/is-there-a-way-to-get-sbcl-to-print-out-the-value-of-a-cpu-register 2014-09-16T20:07:43Z Neet__ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:11:19Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:11:27Z pspace quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:11:39Z theseb: is it ALWAYS easy to rewrite macros with intermediate functions to avoid EVER having to deal with multiple levels of nested quasiquotes and commas? (i can handle *one* level but not deep nesting) 2014-09-16T20:11:52Z theseb: (full disclosure: posted to #scheme but no one there answered fwiw) 2014-09-16T20:13:18Z Grue`: nested quasiquotes can always be rewritten without nested quasiquotes, or, indeed, any quasiquotes at all 2014-09-16T20:13:32Z newcup quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:14:29Z Grue`: e.g. `(a ,b) = (list 'a b) 2014-09-16T20:14:45Z Petit_Dejeuner: theseb, I like having helper functions for my macros. 2014-09-16T20:15:00Z theseb: Grue`: ah..thank god 2014-09-16T20:15:21Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:15:30Z theseb: Grue`: not only does that help my brain to not explode but I *seriously* didn't want to implement nested quasiquotes in my half baked lisp implementation 2014-09-16T20:16:02Z pecg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:16:17Z Grue`: if you implement one level, recursion should take care of any nesting, it's not like the rules are different 2014-09-16T20:17:11Z ARM9 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:17:52Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-09-16T20:18:46Z pspace joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:19:05Z ARM9 quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T20:19:05Z newcup joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:19:10Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:20:09Z wchun joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:20:33Z wchun quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T20:20:52Z wchun joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:25:11Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:26:03Z mutley89 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:26:16Z cibs joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:30:10Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:31:49Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:33:31Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:35:46Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:37:02Z danielbraun joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:38:10Z zlrth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:39:16Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:39:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:44:12Z pecg joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:47:57Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:48:32Z ehu_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:48:59Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:49:00Z normanrichards quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T20:49:41Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:49:51Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:50:03Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:50:09Z pecg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T20:50:11Z Paul_McFreely quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-16T20:50:45Z Paul_McFreely joined #lisp 2014-09-16T20:50:56Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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2014-09-16T23:07:18Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:07:43Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-16T23:08:20Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:10:57Z Paul_McFreely quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T23:10:57Z robot-beethoven quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-16T23:10:57Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-16T23:10:57Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:10:57Z fraytack` joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:10:57Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:11:10Z Paul_McFreely joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:13:10Z Bazzie quit (Quit: mmmmm, benis) 2014-09-16T23:13:52Z resttime_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:14:02Z fraytack` is now known as resttime 2014-09-16T23:14:32Z resttime: in +(or :win64 :win32) 2014-09-16T23:14:38Z resttime: :win64 is valid right? 2014-09-16T23:15:21Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-09-16T23:15:36Z resttime: and i have just successfully built ecl on win64 whoo hoo 2014-09-16T23:15:51Z resttime: i mean as a 64bit binary 2014-09-16T23:16:39Z csziacobus joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:17:48Z csziacobus quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z emma_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z BitPuffin: what's the difference between doing :foo and #:foo, #:foo treats it as a variable rather than a symbol, but I'm not sure why it's sometimes doing one over another 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z BitPuffin: ie 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z BitPuffin: (:use #:cl #:restas) 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z BitPuffin: how come it's not :use :cl :restas 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z emma_ quit (Changing host) 2014-09-16T23:18:01Z emma_ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:18:03Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:20:33Z resttime: BitPuffin, it basically has to do with dealing with namespaces 2014-09-16T23:20:43Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:21:16Z BitPuffin: resttime: yeah but generally # is the "function" namespace isn't it? 2014-09-16T23:21:43Z TomRS joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:21:58Z BitPuffin: or is there a good hyperspec page about this 2014-09-16T23:21:59Z resttime: not necessarily 2014-09-16T23:22:13Z resttime: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html 2014-09-16T23:23:23Z resttime: also answer to my previous question, that's a yes :win64 works 2014-09-16T23:23:26Z BitPuffin: aha! so it's just to make a unique symbol that isn't bound to anything 2014-09-16T23:23:31Z BitPuffin: brilliant thanks 2014-09-16T23:23:34Z resttime: np 2014-09-16T23:23:45Z resttime: good eval of *features* shows which things are available 2014-09-16T23:23:52Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:25:14Z resttime: i might be one of the few people in the world with a working ECLx64 under windows :D 2014-09-16T23:25:30Z resttime: or at least successfully compiled that is 2014-09-16T23:25:56Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-09-16T23:26:01Z BitPuffin: I know a guy who recently started playing with ECL on windows 2014-09-16T23:26:17Z BitPuffin: the main derp was that the autotools can't take the unix line endings iirc 2014-09-16T23:26:40Z resttime: hmmm 2014-09-16T23:26:53Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-16T23:26:53Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-16T23:26:54Z resttime: the problem with me was code pages 2014-09-16T23:27:06Z resttime: conflicting goto LABELS 2014-09-16T23:27:30Z resttime: and a sockets.lisp thing 2014-09-16T23:28:45Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:28:46Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-16T23:28:58Z rp__ joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:29:38Z phao: Hi. It is possible for me to make my own sequence type that can be made to work with map, length and so forth? 2014-09-16T23:30:04Z Bicyclidine: with the nonstandard SEQUENCES extension, yes. it's supported by sbcl, abcl, and a few others i forget 2014-09-16T23:30:12Z phao: Bicyclidine, I see. 2014-09-16T23:30:48Z ft joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:30:55Z phao: Bicyclidine, really... any other standard way? 2014-09-16T23:31:11Z Bicyclidine: there's no standard way to subclass a built in class. 2014-09-16T23:31:24Z phao: =( 2014-09-16T23:33:07Z lisper29 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:33:13Z zort left #lisp 2014-09-16T23:38:12Z White_Flame: BitPuffin: :foo is treated as a variable, too. It's just defined that keywords evaluate to their own symbol 2014-09-16T23:38:21Z White_Flame: so #:foo -> undefined, :foo -> :foo 2014-09-16T23:38:46Z White_Flame: or, :foo -> ':foo, to avoid recursive definition 2014-09-16T23:38:53Z Bazzie joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:39:13Z Bicyclidine: just :foo. it's not like it's evaluated again. 2014-09-16T23:39:43Z White_Flame: but yeah, compilers will optimize that transformation away. But it's still considered an evaluation 2014-09-16T23:40:07Z White_Flame: just like 1 evaluates to itself 2014-09-16T23:41:40Z clop2 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:42:03Z pecg quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:45:12Z lisper29 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-16T23:46:14Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:46:21Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:47:05Z BitPuffin: White_Flame: hmm, undefined? 2014-09-16T23:47:36Z BitPuffin: ugh, made me think of javascript höhö 2014-09-16T23:47:48Z White_Flame: yeah, unbound is more correct :) 2014-09-16T23:48:35Z Bicyclidine: cl doesn't have a value meaning "undefined value" like some systems. you'll just be getting an unboundedness error. 2014-09-16T23:49:04Z BitPuffin: butI could still store it in a variable and copy it to others and *then* it would be the same symbol if you campared them 2014-09-16T23:49:38Z Bicyclidine: (let ((a :foo) (b :foo)) (eq a b)) => T, yeah 2014-09-16T23:50:00Z White_Flame: every symbol in a package (ie, not #:-prefixed ones) will be interned, and always eq between their instances 2014-09-16T23:50:17Z BitPuffin: Bicyclidine: well there you aren't doing '#:foo 2014-09-16T23:50:52Z Bicyclidine: guess i'm not paying enough attention, sorry. 2014-09-16T23:51:10Z White_Flame: the only real way to reuse a '#:foo variable is to store that symbol somewhere and splat that instance out in macroexpansions, or symbol-value style operations 2014-09-16T23:51:30Z nydel quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2) 2014-09-16T23:51:38Z Bicyclidine: there's the ## #= macros too. 2014-09-16T23:52:18Z White_Flame: yep. all tricks to keep that particular symbol being instanced exactly once by the reader and reused 2014-09-16T23:52:37Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-16T23:52:53Z nydel joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:53:55Z lisper29 joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:53:57Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:54:54Z rme joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:56:32Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-09-16T23:58:37Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)