00:01:37 -!- rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:24 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:05:43 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:49 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:49 any suggestions for a setup to send an email from a lisp program? i have postfix/dovecot running on the same machine as my sbcl instance 00:07:08 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 00:08:42 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:56 rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:20 robot-beethoven: I use SBCL and I've done that by opening a pipe to sendmail -t and printing the headers and content to the pipe. 00:10:22 robot-beethoven: I use sb-ext:run-program "/usr/bin/mailx" 00:10:39 /usr/sendmail is often provided even by non-sendmail mtas 00:10:54 yep, most will have a sendmail-compatible sendmail invocation. 00:11:03 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:19 though I found mailx more useful as it constructs a whole mime-compatible message for me, I don't have to do it manually. 00:11:52 there are also a few mail-related projects in quicklisp, i think there's something like cl-sendmail and/or cl-smtp 00:13:28 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:13:45 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 00:16:12 davazp` [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:38 -!- davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:43 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 00:17:15 Xach, antoszka: thanks for the suggestions 00:18:04 -!- 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has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:35 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f65638.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:49 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:47:26 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:21 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:49 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 02:52:55 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 02:52:57 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:57 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:24 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 02:54:47 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 02:55:37 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-50-115.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:49 would anybody like to provide me with feedback on my list sample function? https://gist.github.com/wktr/9521161 02:56:34 why set the random state? 02:56:48 oh, i suppose that's just a test, though 02:57:11 you wrote this in a scheme way, kind of unnecessary 02:57:22 oh, a scheme way? 02:58:08 tail recursion etc 02:58:27 (nconc res (list elem)) is pointless, why not (cons elem res)? 02:59:03 oh, good idea 02:59:20 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:59:41 (loop with len = (length list) repeat amt collect (nth (random len) list)) 03:00:02 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:00:13 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 03:00:34 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:56 actually, make that elt and it works on sequences instead of just lists. 03:03:04 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:04:13 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:40 Bike: that seems to be shorter and cooler but it reuses the elements. 03:04:47 for example: 03:04:49 CL-USER> (bike '(2 2 2 1) 4) 03:04:50 (2 1 2 1) 03:04:58 oh, i wasn't sure if you wanted that. 03:05:13 yeah, i see. 03:05:34 -!- davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:09 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:42 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 03:06:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:45 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:06 (loop for list = list then (remove elt list :count 1) for len = (length list) then (1- len) for elt = (nth (random len) list) repeat amt collect elt) 03:09:08 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:09:36 anyway, you don't have to use loop, but relying on tail recursion like you did isn't usual in CL. there's no guarantee the stack won't grow. 03:11:39 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.194.237] has left #lisp 03:12:02 i see, thanks Bike 03:12:09 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12:35 i know in that example nconc wasn't necessary, but if i need to modify a variable should i use setf and cons or nconc? 03:12:56 cons doesn't modify anything 03:13:19 -!- harish [~harish@n182z3l132.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:21 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:13:48 setf changes a variable's value. nconc modifies a list. 03:14:29 (not counting setf accessors here) 03:17:17 huangjs [ca4cf70b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.76.247.11] has joined #lisp 03:17:52 -!- yzzyx [~yzzyx@host86-173-68-125.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:36 oh ok, thanks 03:19:09 -!- lisper29 [~vibs29@182.64.180.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:20:04 w|t: bike mentioned the distinction between modifying the object and modifying the variable; with lists you often have to modify the variable: there is only one unique empty list, and you can't modify it 03:22:14 is this related to how some people use setf on functions that are already destructive? 03:24:05 lisper29 [~vibs29@182.64.180.126] has joined #lisp 03:24:28 -!- lisper29 is now known as Guest10926 03:24:44 -!- ketamin [~octave@187-162-190-220.static.axtel.net] has left #lisp 03:24:47 w|t: They use setf with them because most of the destructive list functions are allowed to "break" the list, or even just carry out their behavior in a nondestructive way 03:24:57 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:25:13 ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 03:25:13 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 03:25:13 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 03:25:35 w|t: I've always guessed that the unique nil was a factor in choosing that design but I've never seen the original discussions on it 03:25:46 so it is not guaranteed that nconc will actually modify a list, right? 03:27:02 w|t: IIRC nconc's destructive behavior is actually specified, but if your list was empty you may be out of luck anyway 03:27:05 it is, if the list isn't nil. 03:27:18 for your paste nconc's destructiveness is irrelevant, of course. 03:27:49 in another function i rely on nconc's destructiveness. 03:28:04 well then, yes, it's specified to modify a list in a certain way. 03:28:10 i just removed the setf call and it doesn't actually modify. the list was originally nil, so yeah. 03:28:52 i'll just use setf from now on then 03:30:05 when you use setf in combination with nconc, the result is that the object _and_ variable are modified, right? 03:30:16 harish [~harish@n182z3l132.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:57 (setf variable (nconc ...)) modifies variable to point to the result of nconc, and nconc modifies some object 03:33:59 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:01 w|t: I should said that the sort of destruction specified for destructive list functions varies by the function, so if you are going to rely on it, make sure the behavior is required 03:35:45 ok, thanks for clarifying guys! 03:36:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:37:12 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:29 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:38:55 -!- uzo_ [~uzo@99.102.150.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:09 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:11 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 03:40:25 -!- jangle 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[~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:27 Tiffany27 [~Tiffany27@93.114.45.59] has joined #lisp 04:04:04 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:54 -!- Tiffany27 [~Tiffany27@93.114.45.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:06:50 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-224-104-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:48 -!- huangjs [ca4cf70b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.76.247.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:17 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 04:12:31 Sean-Der [~sean@c-71-201-20-233.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:20 Does CLOS have a predicate to check if type-specifier A inherited from B ? 04:13:55 if they're classes, subtypep 04:14:25 Bike: ah perfect, thank you! 04:20:01 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:26 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-142-79.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:21:36 Good morning everyone! 04:24:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:00 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-252-240-84.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:41 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:32:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:33:29 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.116.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:35:42 -!- Guest10926 [~vibs29@182.64.180.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:11 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:42:50 Guest10926 [~vibs29@182.64.35.51] has joined #lisp 04:44:58 nisstyre_ [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:45:23 -!- nisstyre 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joined #lisp 05:51:20 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:39 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:54:53 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:14 dannybit10 [~dannybit@ool-45793438.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:25 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:58:37 Hi i have to recursively create a list of negative numbers given a list of numbers, here is what i have http://pastebin.com/YSRX1GvE 05:59:04 for some reason this works only when the first element of the list is negative otherwise it gives me a nil 06:00:04 dannybit10: That's because you don't have an "else" clause in your inner IF. 06:00:25 So if hte first element is not negative, you get NIL. 06:00:28 *the 06:00:48 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 06:00:54 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-137-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:01:01 it gives nil because there is no negative numbers? 06:01:21 actually it stops everytime there is a positive number 06:01:36 yes 06:01:37 like (-1 -2 3 -4) will give me (-1 -2) instead of (-1 -2 -4) 06:01:38 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:59 dannybit10: So you want to just remove all non-negative numbers? 06:02:04 [you didn't say that] 06:02:32 yes (-1 -2 5 6 7 -1) ---> (-1 -2 -1) 06:02:41 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.252.162] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 06:02:41 dannybit10: If so, in your "else" clause of the inner IF, you need to say (cdr l) 06:02:47 JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has joined #lisp 06:02:53 dannybit10: It is better to give a specification than examples. 06:03:15 dannybit10: So is it the case that you want to remove any non-negative number and just keep the negative ones? 06:03:27 yes 06:03:39 putting the else works 06:03:47 actually, not quite. 06:03:59 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:13 it should read x 06:04:28 (if (minusp (car l)) (cons (car l) x) x) 06:04:54 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.152.57] has joined #lisp 06:04:57 why not just sort them? 06:05:25 theos: Or just (remove-if-not #'minusp list) 06:05:32 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:05:48 yup 06:05:52 Probably because "i have to recursively create a list". 06:05:54 didn't think about that 06:06:03 but yeah its for an assignment 06:06:27 beach can you explain what do you mean by "it should read x"? 06:06:37 ASau [~user@46.115.116.19] has joined #lisp 06:06:53 dannybit10: `cond' is your friend and you'll need three branches. 06:06:54 dannybit10: (if (< (car l) 0) (cons (car l) x) x) 06:07:00 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 06:07:06 didi: I don't think so. 06:07:31 dannybit10: I mean the last `x' above, in the "else" clause. 06:07:47 oh ok yes you are right 06:08:13 dannybit10: It's easy to forget the default case. 06:08:25 yes now it works :) 06:08:32 Of course! :) 06:08:38 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:57 dannybit10: You should tell your teacher that this is not a good assignment, though. Very lazy teacher! 06:09:04 yeah still getting used to lisp's syntax 06:09:20 Yeah he's pretty lazy 06:09:33 dannybit10: Sure. You seem to be doing OK with the syntax. 06:09:51 milosn [~milosn@97e5e80f.skybroadband.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:56 dannybit10: (< mumble 0) is better expressed as (minusp mumble). 06:11:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:14 oh nice thanks 06:12:17 dannybit10: There is a general rule in programming to choose the most specific construct that does the job. 06:12:41 yeah i see 06:13:27 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:14:02 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:50 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 06:14:59 -!- uzo_ [~uzo@adsl-108-73-166-54.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:47 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:16:42 didi: If you use COND here, you must repeat the recursive call to negative nums. 06:17:01 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:11 beach: No good? 06:17:30 I find it cute. 06:18:00 didi: Sure, it works, but, as I said, you now have a repeated recursive call. 06:18:12 Cute little blocky of pares. 06:18:20 Parens, even. 06:18:22 Not a problem of performance, but a maintenance problem. 06:23:11 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 06:24:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:25:22 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 06:26:04 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-50-115.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has left #lisp 06:26:44 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:16 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:29:16 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-39.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:29 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 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09:03:32 man ascii 09:03:33 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man7/ascii.7.html 09:03:44 thanks Adlai|work i'll try that wonderful idea, of course we live in a world where charts exist in json way before cl 09:03:55 digit-char-p? 09:04:32 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:36 nydel: you want a "chart" of ascii values of digit characters? 09:04:51 (or digit-char, for the other direction) 09:05:55 what i'm doing involves datagram coming in and i just wanna convert it to something readable as mundanely as possible 09:06:19 i didn't see any obvious ways to do it so i thought to make an assoc table and a simple function 09:06:31 MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:07:08 nydel: (loop for code from (char-code #\0) upto (char-code #\9) collect (const code (code-char code))) is one way to generate such a table 09:07:16 but if there's a good way built in to turn #(104 101 108 108 111) into "hello" 09:07:52 look at that loop, you should be able to figure that out. 09:08:28 H4ns those two functions i couldn't find. do you think it's a good idea to make some kind of table instead of call those functions a lot 09:08:38 nydel: no. 09:08:46 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:09:00 nydel: in particular not if you think about alists 09:09:23 might as well just (mapcar #'code-char list-of-ascii-char-codes) right 09:09:48 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:01 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:52 nydel: try (map 'string #'code-char #(51 54 45)) 09:10:58 maybe a lambda in the middle that concatenates the chars into a string 09:11:26 don't underestimate how awesome cl really is 09:11:27 oh that's interesting, is that better than a lambda calling #'concatenate too 09:11:36 the way you just wrote it is so elegant 09:20:08 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:20:18 -!- RazLaptop [~Intertric@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20:30 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:39 eni [~eni@APuteaux-651-1-69-229.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:20:55 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:22:03 gosh thanks H4ns i was able to quickly do exactly what i needed in a simple readable manner with that. cl really is awesome. 09:22:04 -!- abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:12 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-191-156.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:22:20 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:01 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:41 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Ayey_] 09:25:02 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:30 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:28:41 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 09:32:01 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:04 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:32:39 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-19.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:37:32 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:04 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:05 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505a:6120:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:43:07 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:46:02 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:44 Joreji [~thomas@155-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:48:24 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:51:09 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:02 nydel: I must say, JSON is pretty neat... same expressibility as XML, but nearly as concise as S-expressions 09:55:41 Adlai: Almost... There are some things XML does better 09:55:54 COmplex matching with Xpath, specifically. 09:56:02 yeah there's totally different 09:56:12 same role but different cultures 09:56:18 json also has abysmal support for data types and schema 09:56:31 malkomalko [~malkomalk@23-25-20-209-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:35 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 09:56:38 json is the js culture, XML apropos the java culture 09:56:52 java and c++ 09:56:54 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@23-25-20-209-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:57:28 you adjust to both as per usual after using for a while 09:57:54 i recently did an EPP client leveraging off an existing c++ client 09:58:08 all the XML is IETF schema driven 09:58:17 can't do anything like that with json 09:58:26 but I used json to drive the ops 10:01:02 *they're 10:01:39 amadsen [~Alpheus@67.214.225.82] has joined #lisp 10:03:22 Renee28 [~Renee28@93.114.45.59] has joined #lisp 10:03:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:04:49 -!- Renee28 [~Renee28@93.114.45.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:12 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:41 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:06:04 hugoduncan [~user@69.157.171.126] has joined #lisp 10:07:43 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 10:10:24 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:56 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:12:08 loke: isn't that a property of XML support libraries, not of the underlying data representation format? 10:12:35 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:13:09 you can translate JSON to XML with a few simple decisions (which field is the "content", how to represent arrays, etc) and then use XML libraries 10:14:11 vaporatorius [~vaporator@126.Red-83-42-198.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:44 Adlai|work: did you actually try that? in my experience, the primary advantage of json is convenience, and that is what xml does not have. xml is not convenient, but it is very powerful. much more powerful than anything json can ever be. 10:15:13 Adlai|work: by mixing json and xml, you get the worst of both worlds, lack of power and inconvenience :) 10:18:33 mixing? sounds like a monster. But using appropriately: a wiener. 10:18:42 different horses for diff courses 10:19:03 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 10:19:42 in this culture though, I'd expect the std thing is just use the reader 10:20:15 -!- amadsen [~Alpheus@67.214.225.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:51 *splittist* has visions of horsemeat sausages... 10:21:21 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 10:21:39 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 10:23:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:17 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has joined #lisp 10:24:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:18 deepak [~chatzilla@115.244.78.38] has joined #lisp 10:25:19 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:26:44 -!- slarti [~anonymous@50-202-45-106-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: slarti] 10:26:55 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:27:33 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:06 add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-33.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:32:35 H4ns: nah, never done this, just suggesting that if the advantages of XML are tools (and not some inherent property of the syntax), you can fool the tools 10:32:35 Yesterday I put question regarding how clisp using ffcall libraries but I think my question missed. I saw file called foreign.d (src/foreign.d) it contains and . Can anyone please explain me why CLISP using ffcall libraries? 10:32:46 *Adlai|work* doesn't care, he stays away from XML whenever possible... 10:33:53 -!- eni [~eni@APuteaux-651-1-69-229.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:28 deepak: Yes. CLISP requires to be compiled with libffi for ffi to work 10:35:48 RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:01 loke: Instead of compiling, is there any other function performed by these libraries in CLISP? 10:38:44 deepak: What is it that you want to do? 10:40:30 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Ayey_] 10:41:35 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:28 loke: Actually I'm working on one of the bug posted on savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?22035. I want to test whether that bug is valid or not, for that I think I have to go deep inside what actually going on in it (like what is purpose of using these libraries , what work they do and so on) :). 10:43:47 loke: not, it uses libffcall instead of libffi 10:43:58 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:44:15 deepak: clisp has its own mailing list 10:44:45 I don't think anybody here knows the clisp internals, so better ask on their list 10:45:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:46:00 fe[nl]ix : Thanks, I'll put this question on mailing list. 10:47:42 kdas_ [~kdas@dynamic-135.121.142.202.sitibroadband.in] has joined #lisp 10:48:30 Can you provide me link for devel mailing list please. 10:49:34 google it 10:50:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53:05 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 10:55:59 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:55:59 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:25 -!- m00n [~m00n_sl47@2604:9a00:2010:a005:10::] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57:47 -!- harish [~harish@n182z3l132.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:57:48 http://bit.ly/1cAWPbr 10:59:17 -!- deepak [~chatzilla@115.244.78.38] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 11:01:54 m00n [~m00n_sl47@2604:9a00:2010:a005:10::] has joined #lisp 11:04:11 I wonder how many lisp projects in the wild have more than 100 files. 11:04:12 minion: memo for deepak: don't leave before we answer your question, if you're interested in an answer at all! 11:04:12 Remembered. I'll tell deepak when he/she/it next speaks. 11:04:39 minion: memo for deepak: clisp uses ffcall to implement foreign function calls, because of the principles of code reuse. DUH! 11:04:39 Remembered. I'll tell deepak when he/she/it next speaks. 11:05:32 ha! 11:05:38 iolib is at 98 11:06:13 but more than 100, if you count the tests 11:06:59 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@109.120.14.244] has joined #lisp 11:08:49 vap1 [~vaporator@126.Red-83-42-198.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:02 -!- vap1 [~vaporator@126.Red-83-42-198.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:59 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.223.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13:09 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:48 splittist: upwards of 2000 in one repository here at work. :) 11:14:58 MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:16:12 fe[nl]ix, luis: thanks 11:18:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:18:25 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:31 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:19:52 splittist: now you have a lower bound! 11:22:17 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:23:29 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:39 harish [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:52 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 11:24:25 indeed. It is entirely unfair of me, but I can't shake the feeling that asdf 3.x is solving problems I don't have at the expense of making the problems I do have harder to solve. But while the universe does revolve around me, I can understand if others don't act as if it does, so I was wondering how many people do have the problems it seems to want to solve. 11:25:09 splittist: how does it make life harder for you? 11:25:58 it's a lisp community thing ain't it? 11:26:15 -!- Ayey_ is now known as rune1 11:26:29 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-90.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:27:01 -!- rune1 [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: rune1] 11:27:11 JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has joined #lisp 11:27:14 alpha- [~silver@unaffiliated/alpha--] has joined #lisp 11:27:38 prxq: quite. Hence my talk of 'feeling' and 'unfair'. The most I can put my finger on is that I don't follow the documentation, because I don't follow the motivation. But I'm trying to read everything Fare and others have written to try to wrap my head around it. 11:29:34 that's a bit vague :-) 11:29:44 Hello. Noob question: why is (rest (assoc "c" '(("c" . "d")) :test #'string=)) different from (rest (assoc "c" '('("c" "d")) :test #'string=)) ? 11:30:30 alpha-: ' is QUOTE. Juts look at the lists without the function calls 11:30:49 splittist: any other dependency systems you compare it to? 11:31:01 prxq is quote different from the dot in the middle ? 11:31:07 i.e. the haskell or python variety? 11:31:33 alpha-: yes. You need urgently to read an intro text. Like "gentle introduction to symbolic computation" 11:31:48 prxq ok thanks 11:32:02 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:33:45 ferada: not really. I think asdf is wonderful, I personally use a tiny subset of its capability, and I am extremely grateful to all involved. Any time I have the misfortune to use one of the java things I despair, but that could just be unfamiliarity. Make has its own charm, of course (: 11:36:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:00 alpha-: while you are a noob, you should avoid 'x and always write instead (quote x). 11:38:54 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:39:10 (rest (assoc "c" (quote (("c" . "d"))) :test (function string=))) vs. (rest (assoc "c" (quote ((quote ("c" "d")))) :test (function string=))) vs. (rest (assoc "QUOTE" (quote ((quote ("c" "d")))) :test (function string=))) should make it clear. 11:39:47 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:40:19 how does one rewrite ("c" . "d") as (cons ... ) ? 11:40:49 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:35 (cons "c" "d")? 11:41:38 alpha-: again, youre are confusing things. 11:41:58 (not (equal '(cons "c" "d") '("c" . "d"))) 11:42:40 (cons "c" "d") evaluates to ("c" . "d") but ("c" . "d") doesn't evaluate to ("c" . "d"). 11:42:55 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:42:58 so confused 11:43:13 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:19 Why do you want a form that evaluates to ("c" . "d") ? 11:43:31 because I don't like the dot notation 11:43:46 and I want to get rid of it 11:44:25 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.130] has joined #lisp 11:44:28 alpha-: use plists 11:44:36 (second (assoc "c" (quote (("c" "d"))) :test (function string=))) 11:44:56 or keep using a-lists, but only put lists in them, and therefore use second instead of cdr. 11:45:03 pjb oh thats nice 11:45:12 thats exactky what I wanted to reach 11:46:48 still, plists would simplify things as H4ns says. 11:47:03 splittist: much of what asdf does now stems from the needs of a single large organization (ita/google) 11:47:10 and a single individual (fare) 11:47:35 a-lists have the advantage of having independent conses for entries. 11:47:46 I haven't reached the point in my book with plists yet 11:47:50 getting there 11:47:51 p-list have the advantage of being passable as &key arguments. 11:50:19 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:50:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:50:22 splittist: i think few people other than fare are in the position to ask "How can I change ASDF to fix the problems I have at work?" most people write code around asdf, not in it. 11:55:32 git status 11:55:45 ... wrong window >_< 11:56:01 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:57:45 rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:04:17 MoALTz__ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:04:29 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:37 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:31 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:08:01 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:40 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 12:14:23 So we just have to pray that if we eventually have a problem with a project configuration, it will already have been solved by Faré in asdf3 (or xcvb). :-) 12:19:14 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:22:24 -!- yacks [~py@122.172.187.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:35 Karl_Dscc [~localhost@p578FC5AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:44 levy [~levy@catv-89-135-132-203.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:26:34 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:27:51 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:29:20 -!- ruzu [~quassel@unaffiliated/ruzu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:47 patrick85 [~patrick85@wlan234-175.wlan.uni-ulm.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 12:31:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:33:17 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:34:42 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 12:36:14 davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:04 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:07 -!- harish [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:43:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:46:20 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-58-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 Joreji [~thomas@174-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:41 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: rune1] 12:56:12 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.0] has joined #lisp 12:57:31 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [] 12:57:44 rune1 [~anonymous@3004ds8-ar.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:59:26 -!- kdas_ is now known as kushal 12:59:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@dynamic-135.121.142.202.sitibroadband.in] has quit [Changing host] 12:59:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:03:20 harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:27 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:09:12 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:55 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:31 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:10:32 sandbender1512 [~none@CPEc8fb26470b29-CMc8fb26470b26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 -!- RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:28 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 13:14:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:16 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@3004ds8-ar.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: rune1] 13:14:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:24 beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.66.39.9] has joined #lisp 13:15:25 -!- beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.66.39.9] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:54 rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 13:18:21 beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.66.39.9] has joined #lisp 13:23:29 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:29:19 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:29:27 segv- [~mb@95-91-211-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:32:01 -!- harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:47 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:56 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 13:35:38 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:35:54 bmuk [~user@64.56.89.43] has joined #lisp 13:36:31 -!- effy [~x@114.253.37.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:36:46 Does anyone have any experience with xelf? 13:39:19 bmuk: I don't, but I'd like to. When I start playing with it, I'll try hanging out on #lispgames, where I hear all the cool kids are. 13:39:36 bmuk: dto, join #lispgames 13:39:52 <- slow 13:40:20 thank you :) 13:40:47 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:41:20 effy [~x@114.253.37.127] has joined #lisp 13:42:08 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:42:24 -!- mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 13:42:37 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 13:45:34 -!- mindCrime_ is now known as mindCrime 13:46:12 -!- Sean-Der [~sean@c-71-201-20-233.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 13:47:07 -!- Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:35 harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:27 what's good free, solid CL implementation that's good to start and play with? I tried clisp, it seems friendly, but fails on big numbers, sbcl seems more industrial, kinda crude 13:52:45 therik: how can it fail on big numbers? 13:52:56 therik: SBCL is a good bet. 13:53:12 I'd like to make some fun web apps, so some easy-to-install compatible frameworks would be appreciated 13:53:18 SBCL or CCL are both solid and easy to build 13:53:37 therik: cliki.net 13:53:42 Try that: #+clisp(setf (ext:long-float-digits) 2000) pi 13:53:45 pjb: I tried to calculate factorials, clisp overflows from about 80000! + 13:53:53 therik: and quicklisp.org immediately 13:54:14 therik: and quickdocs.org 13:54:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:01 thanks, thanks a lot! 13:55:25 therik: most people use slime as an IDE for sbcl. Makes it A LOT friendlier 13:55:37 -!- beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.66.39.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:40 (time (defvar *x* (alexandria.0.dev:factorial 90000))) -> Real time: 0.395537 sec. ; no problem here with clisp. 13:55:41 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:55:46 prxq: got that already 13:56:59 and clisp (integer-length *x*) --> 1351355 immediately, while ccl is still computing it 13:57:39 sbcl takes 0.553 seconds of real time to compute that factorial. 13:57:54 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:58:09 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-58-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:19 So, clisp wins on both counts over both ccl and sbcl here 13:58:31 beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@223.196.165.121] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 at last, something that the abandoned clisp is really really good at 13:59:21 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:59:23 :D 13:59:26 H4ns: clisp is good at everything. 13:59:27 so, if you're going to calculate a lot of factorials, clisp will be the weapon of choice 13:59:44 pjb: right. that is why it is the dominant implementation. 13:59:54 but foremost, it doesn't need a monthly patch to remove bugs 14:00:17 bug free, good at everything, calculates factorials very fast. 14:00:19 it needs only for them to be documented in the manual as intentional anti-ANSI design choices. 14:00:31 hahaha 14:00:32 presto, no more bugs 14:00:33 Everybody uses clisp -ansi always. 14:00:50 pjb: right. everybody, that is you 14:00:53 :D 14:01:05 me and Paul Graham :-) 14:01:28 uhh, the weapon of choice of the true masters it is 14:01:45 RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:52 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: rune1] 14:04:49 rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:04:49 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:04:53 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:05:42 does minion have a quotes module? for "pjb | H4ns: clisp is good at everything." ... 14:06:05 no 14:06:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:06:11 :( 14:06:27 -!- Zag [~Zag@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:43 Zag [~Zag@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:08:31 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:08:37 rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:09:28 (defun fac (n r) (if (= n 1) r (fac (1- n) (* r n)))) (compile 'fac) (fac 150000 1) 14:09:36 *** - overflow during multiplication of large numbers 14:09:36 The following restarts are available: 14:09:45 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 14:10:28 CLISP 2.49 (2010-07-07) 14:10:42 haha 14:10:47 maybe it's old, but it's in debian repos 14:10:51 i mean, seriously? 14:11:13 "it's in debian repos" does mean "avoid it" in the context of common lisp 14:11:22 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:52 just get rid of all of that, install binaries from www.sbcl.org (or clisp.org if you really insist on that), be happy 14:12:08 alright, I get the point :) 14:12:58 therik: unfortunately, most distros do a crappy job with lisp. No idea why. 14:13:06 therik: on the up side, you now know that lisp is not dead. there has been quite some progress in the last few years, even in the abandoned clisp 14:13:18 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:13:20 prxq: because there is so little interest in common lisp, that is why :) 14:14:04 cause the entry barrier is freaking crazy 14:14:11 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:25 you can't use lisp if you don't use emacs.. and you can't really use emacs if you don't use lisp 14:14:45 H4ns: meh, no, I think it is because it is different. There are some fairly low popularity languages that get better packaging 14:15:08 therik: none of both is true. Also: emacs lisp is a different lisp than common lisp 14:15:37 therik: you can also use vim, although the juicy slime is in emacs... 14:16:03 therik: many happy vim (even nvi) lisp users. Slimv with vim works for those folks. 14:16:32 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:17:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:17:58 Compare the difficulty of installing several lisp implementations, quicklisp and a bunch of interdependent libraries and finally lisp support for your favorite editor with the same thing for, say, more than one TeX distribution. 14:18:47 I had a lot of trouble getting one tex distribution working, but I was not super-highly motivated. 14:18:49 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 14:21:31 *Adlai|work* mutters something about quicklisp being the best thing since sliced bread and pizza deliveries... thank you Xach :) 14:21:59 -!- sellout- [~Adium@71-218-6-206.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:23:26 prxq: from the outside it seems like that 14:24:56 Adlai|work: glad it helps 14:25:34 -!- beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@223.196.165.121] has quit [Quit: beingAwesome] 14:26:23 when I said I'm gonna learn emacs, people asked me if I'm masochist, when I told them the point is to learn and use lisp, they thought I went insane 14:26:36 heh 14:27:03 there doesn't seem to be editor that can handle lisp well, apart from emacs and vim 14:27:14 therik: emacs really is best 14:27:47 H4ns: I think the same thing, I started couple weeks ago and I love it, but it's not visible from outside 14:27:49 therik: lisp on vim is acceptable because some vim-lovers really can't get over it, but the amount of work that goes into emacs is much larger. 14:28:23 I don't care now, I'm already past that entry point, and I don't think there's really any desire to fix it, and perhaps that's right 14:28:36 Are we discussing entry barriers to lisp? 14:28:45 just saying, if someone wonders why lisp isn't more popular, that might be one of reasons 14:28:49 -!- ketamin [~octave@187-162-190-220.static.axtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:00 I'll throw out something I used the other day, that I think would make it a lot easier for beginners: 14:29:29 Vagrant makes it easy to get Linux running on your local machine. 14:29:29 wildermuthn: go ahead 14:29:40 Docker makes it easy to get SBCL installed correctly with all the right packages. 14:29:46 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 14:29:56 quicklisp is quite nice, I had a couple of computers I wanted to install lisp tools on but I remembered there's was quite a bit to configure and install etc, but it made it a lot faster 14:30:36 haven't heard of those 14:30:47 or..hmm 14:30:51 wildermuthn: so ? 14:31:13 ah ok so that's vagrant...someone was talking about it the other day 14:31:16 It takes maybe three to four lines in terminal... 14:31:30 Someone even has a docker image that works fine for me: https://index.docker.io/u/nlamirault/commonlisp/ 14:32:01 Vagrant gets the Linux VM up. Docker installs everything properly. Basically. 14:32:25 wildermuthn: I already use Linux and I'm not interested in Docker 14:32:51 I was thinking for people on Mac or Windows who don't know much about lisp or linux. 14:32:54 fe[nl]ix: wait, suddenly you're a newbie that needs a han to get going again? 14:33:31 wildermuthn: but what do you code it in? 14:34:23 H4ns: yes, but it's the experienced people that would have to build the tool and maintain it 14:34:35 Docker is cool. You don't have to code, really. There's shell commands to create an image and even share it. 14:34:37 and I wouldn't build/maintain something I don't use 14:35:01 for instance, once you download the Docker CommonLisp repo, you just run "docker run -i -t nlamirault/commonlisp /usr/bin/sbcl" 14:35:07 and suddenly you are in sbcl. 14:35:08 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 14:35:37 i run "sbcl" and am suddenly in sbcl :-) 14:35:43 wildermuthn: cool. 14:35:44 haha 14:35:50 True. But with Docker, you don't have to install sbcl yourself. 14:35:50 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-58-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:35:59 Or quicklisp. 14:36:06 The install experience for SBCL has degraded for me, because of glibc issues. 14:36:31 The great part about combining docker with vagrant, is that Vagrant assures that you know exactly what environment sbcl is going to run in. 14:37:03 So even though I'm on a Mac, I can get a very precise linux installation going that will run sbcl without any trouble. 14:37:06 Xach: move to windows and you get a nice installer that automates everything. Admittedly, it seems that the installer for each new version does something different... 14:37:20 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:37:57 Xach: on which distro? 14:38:04 prxq: debian 14:38:10 Has anyone been in touch with Eric Marsden? I'd like to see about moving pg from cvs to something else. 14:38:36 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has joined #lisp 14:38:45 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has quit [Changing host] 14:38:46 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p548312A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:39:04 -!- levy [~levy@catv-89-135-132-203.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:16 splittist: for me, that would solve one problem but introduce more. 14:39:26 wildermuthn: but you still have to do the programming then, this just makes it easy with libs, right? 14:40:04 Xach: swings and omelettes. 14:40:16 Yeah. It's just getting everything setup so that you can start programming (or in my case, learning) lisp./ 14:40:32 splittist: I don't know what that means :( 14:41:01 wildermuthn: that's the point, it's hard to start programming lisp without emacs 14:41:15 swings and roundabouts/you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs/insert old saw about tradeoffs here. 14:41:21 there's no setup.exe -> start typing, that would do indentation correctly, match parens, etc 14:41:24 therik: no way around that one, I guess. I use vim. 14:42:06 therik: I've been hoping for lighttable to support common lisp, but haven't seen anything. 14:42:17 that'd be awesome 14:42:32 that's the exact kind of hipster editor that'd bring popularity and make it easy entry 14:42:38 yep. 14:43:12 anyone interested into opposing python and lisp of "apps integration", by someone who doesn't seem to grok open source very much, is welcome to chime in at https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/46 14:43:21 -!- RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:43:24 what I've heard, it looks like lot of hype and vapor 14:43:43 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:44:37 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-58-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 14:44:49 therik: it works rather well and is pretty slick 14:45:17 is it released already? 14:45:26 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:45:32 therik: yes 14:46:57 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:47:02 dim: forgive him, for he is a Cuban communist 14:47:10 effy_ [~x@114.253.37.127] has joined #lisp 14:47:20 mmm. why should I care? 14:47:31 dim: fair question. why do you care? 14:48:42 I care about his rant looking like a serious argument to other users of pgloader, because it's not the first time I'm getting pushback from choosing to implement a product in Common Lisp 14:49:10 I care because I would like to understand what is the problem with me doing Common Lisp for people who will not contribute anyways... 14:50:01 _zxq9_ [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 14:50:50 wow, what a jerk 14:51:01 you're better off without him 14:51:30 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505a:6120:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:30 -!- wildermuthn [~wildermut@97.87.155.102] has left #lisp 14:51:31 my opinion too, thanks 14:51:45 dim: some people's idea of a "community" is that a large group of people get to vote on design & goals and the developers, obediently, implement 14:51:46 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-101-19.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:51:46 gigetoo_ [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:51:51 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:52:05 Ethan-_ [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:07 Joreji_ [~thomas@174-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:22 wildermuthn [~wildermut@97.87.155.102] has joined #lisp 14:52:26 impulse- [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:52:53 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@77.109.122.2] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 yzzyx` [~yzzyx@host86-173-68-125.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:47 dim: you're right in telling him that he can implement whatever he chooses to implement. he can't tell you what to do, though. on the other hand, it will be up to you to get the packaging and distribution issues under control :) 14:53:54 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:54:05 -!- hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@109.120.14.244] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys_] 14:54:18 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:20 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.14.244] has joined #lisp 14:54:31 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:55:03 edgar-rfx [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:09 yes I still have some work to do, that's why pgloader is 3.0.x, not the stable 3.1 that will be there soon 14:55:28 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:29 btw it's already available as a debian and centos package 14:55:36 http://pgloader.tapoueh.org/download.html 14:55:46 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:55:55 dim: right. so screw that idiot. he's nothing to you. 14:55:58 I still have to better control the loading of openssl libs at start time 14:56:23 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:56:46 thanks guys for your support, I was getting angry enough at his ranting that I was thinking "maybe it's me", you know 14:57:02 -!- marsbot is now known as marsam 14:57:10 __future__ [~future@24-107-206-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:25 dim: the best way is not to specify the soname yourself, but get it from the linker 14:57:42 I'm grateful to anyone who will take time to share something useful, especially in CL 14:58:08 asedeno_ [~asedeno@66.102.14.25] has joined #lisp 14:58:08 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-137-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 fe[nl]ix: my understanding is that I should hack this wisdom into Postmodern (and Qmynd maybe), which is (are) the piece using openssl 14:58:49 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:20 I've intended to write such an ASDF extension for a while 14:59:31 dim: arent they using cl+ssl? then maybe better there? 14:59:38 maybe I'll do it soon since somebody else needs it 15:00:12 the idea is that instead of loading libssl directly, you compile a .so shim that links to the desired library, and load that 15:00:12 oh mayne cl+ssl is the one to fix yeah 15:00:14 rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:01:35 btw fe[nl]ix I will probably need your help/advice about shipping a self contained binary out of that new project where I use iolib (the project is named pginstall), in particular about the libfixposix situation 15:01:51 ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.224] has joined #lisp 15:02:01 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p548312A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:26 -!- marsam is now known as marsbot 15:02:29 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:02:31 ok 15:02:32 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:02:35 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:45 I guess I could embed libfixposix into any .deb or .rpm package I'm going to be providing 15:02:53 essentially, you need this: touch shim.c && gcc shim.c $(pkg-config libssl --cflags --libs) -Wl,--no-as-needed -shared -fPIC -o libssl-loader.so 15:02:56 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-179-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:01 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:04 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:11 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 15:03:17 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:25 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:31 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:33 -!- yzzyx [~yzzyx@host86-173-68-125.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:34 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:45 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 15:03:49 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:56 now you have an empty library that's just an alias for the same libssl 15:03:58 funnel_ [~funnel@23.226.237.192] has joined #lisp 15:03:59 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:04:07 JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:30 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:05:43 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p548312A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:47 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:05:47 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:05:48 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:05:48 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:05:48 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:05:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-19.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:48 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@174-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:48 -!- effy [~x@114.253.37.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 754 seconds] 15:05:51 -!- gigetoo_ is now known as gigetoo 15:06:22 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.122.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:23 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 15:06:25 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:06:35 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:07:11 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 771 seconds] 15:07:14 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:07:18 ggole [~ggole@106.68.179.47] has joined #lisp 15:07:18 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:07:40 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 15:09:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:09:29 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:10:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:30 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:12:11 -!- bmuk [~user@64.56.89.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:07 -!- funnel_ [~funnel@23.226.237.192] has quit [Changing host] 15:15:07 funnel_ [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 15:15:17 -!- funnel_ is now known as funnel 15:16:26 -!- Blkt_ is now known as Blkt 15:16:37 zero_coder [~zero_code@117.253.171.249] has joined #lisp 15:16:53 hey what is the difference between setf and defparameter? 15:17:16 zero_coder: several. defparameter won't set a value if one is already bound. 15:17:17 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:17:31 Adlai: that is defvar i suppose 15:17:33 also, defparameter declares the variable as having dynamic scope, whereas setf doesn't change the variable's scope 15:17:36 ... you are correct :) 15:17:42 defparamater can change the value 15:17:54 right. the second thing I said though is a difference between them. 15:17:55 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 15:18:08 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:18:10 Adlai|work: just starting with lisp :D 15:18:27 zero_coder: do you know what dynamic and lexical scopes are? 15:18:40 zero_coder: setf sets the value of a place. defparameter can work only on a symbol. 15:18:43 Adlai|work: global and local right 15:18:44 ? 15:19:02 zero_coder: that's the general idea, although the full picture is... fuller 15:19:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.14.244] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:19:34 just started lisp a couple of minutes back , reading land of lisp 15:19:49 zero_coder: this chapter (and the book it's from) should help you: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 15:20:02 Adlai|work: thanks :) 15:20:13 Adlai|work: what do you use lisp for? 15:20:25 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p548312A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:09 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:21:09 -!- Ethan-_ [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:22:46 Also, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DynamicScoping is a piece of good read too 15:23:16 RazLaptop [~Intertric@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:19 Dynamic/lexical doesn't refer to global/local 15:23:40 -!- _paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.189] has left #lisp 15:23:44 Dynamic scope can be used in place of global scope though 15:24:18 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:24:43 -!- kbtr_ [~kbtr@zncb.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:25:36 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p548312A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 zero_coder: condescending at my coworkers 15:25:51 and occasionally, fooling around with new ideas that I have no clue how to implement 15:25:56 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:03 sadly my |work is java right now ;_; 15:26:08 kbtr [~kbtr@zncb.io] has joined #lisp 15:26:11 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:27:01 Adlai|work: here too :( 15:28:03 Blkt: ah, but I've got a "my other job is a lisp job" sticker too 15:28:16 we can't even use stuff like ABCL or Clojure, as the "financial" management around here is afraid of not being able to "reuse your code", in order to amortize their investment 15:28:24 lol 15:29:13 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@174-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:44 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:51 every job I've gotten though has been thanks to open source work I've done in lisp, so you could say that I've used it in every one of my jobs so far... just not after the interview :) 15:30:28 Joreji [~thomas@174-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:35 what do you mean? 15:31:55 employers are impressed by CL work, but they don't want to use CL 15:32:12 and open source work is doubly impressive, since they can read it themselves 15:32:22 so I point people to http://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple 15:32:24 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:32:34 then their eyes glaze over, and either they never call me back, or they do. 15:32:50 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-246-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:09 as impractical as sheeple may be, it's great for discussing during job interviews 15:34:42 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:35:11 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:34 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:38:01 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:39:49 aftersha_ [~textual@h-243-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:43:04 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:18 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 15:43:35 alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:44:55 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@174-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:48:03 In any case, someday there'll be a lisp revolution, everybody will switch to lisp and be happy. I know because you can see sometimes unsuspected lispers coming out. 15:48:54 RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:14 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 15:49:23 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 15:50:53 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:51:56 if/when i start my next software business I'll definitely be using CL as my goto unless there's a clear reason not to 15:52:07 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p548312A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:07 Adlai|work: nice work 15:53:36 w|t: on Sheeple? thanks :) 15:53:44 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:20 atgreen [~green@207.112.112.168] has joined #lisp 15:54:37 casually skimming some of your other projects too, you got a lot of neat stuff there! :) 15:55:32 w|t: which ones? 15:55:56 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:55:59 also, don't use Eos even if it seems neat, it's deprecated 15:57:28 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-243-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:58:16 Adlai|work: "until-it-dies" seems pretty interesting 15:58:21 i'll try it sometime. 15:58:25 ketamin [~octave@131.178.200.1] has joined #lisp 15:58:29 i'm still a new lisp coder, so yeah. :P 15:58:29 that is some OLD code 15:58:35 alref looks good! it's not in Quicklisp? 15:58:52 dim: not that I know of. would it be useful to you? 15:59:26 well I hate using (cdr (assoc ...)) everywhere 15:59:42 maybe there's something like alref in alexandria or another lib? 16:00:25 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:34 (defun aget (alist key) (cdr (assoc key alist))) 16:00:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:00:49 dim: there wasn't when I wrote it, which is why I did. 16:00:52 (setf aget) is funnier. 16:01:01 pjb: the bulk of alref is the setf expander 16:01:06 dim: access is the library I use to avoid (cdr (assoc ...)) and all the associated list fumbling (especially as regards setf) 16:01:25 dim: I wrote it half out of a vaguely felt need for something I didn't find anywhere else, but more just to figure out how setf expanders worked. 16:01:42 *Adlai|work* never used it in the end 16:01:42 Adlai|work: ok, fair enough 16:01:46 bobbysmith007: link? 16:01:59 https://github.com/AccelerationNet/access/ 16:02:22 thanks just found it at the same time 16:02:59 this is probably the most relevant section to the set/alist discussion: https://github.com/AccelerationNet/access/#what-happens-when-setting-through-nil 16:03:58 https://github.com/adlai/ALREF/blob/master/alref.lisp#L35-L41 :D 16:04:18 (alref lets you delete keys by setting them to nil) 16:06:16 Adlai|work: wait, i am confused. are you not sykopomp? 16:06:30 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:06:47 w|t: no, but we work together sometimes 16:06:55 oh 16:07:14 sykopomp is sykopomp :) 16:07:41 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-61-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 16:11:39 -!- davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:12:59 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@0133901354.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: rune1] 16:13:47 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 16:17:09 -!- wildermuthn [~wildermut@97.87.155.102] has quit [Quit: wildermuthn] 16:17:28 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:18:37 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 16:18:59 ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:23 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 16:21:50 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-246-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:41 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:50 -!- __future__ [~future@24-107-206-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 16:25:33 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:27:33 -!- edgar-rfx is now known as edgar-rft 16:30:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:02 Adlai|work: I love the first paragraph in the sheeple readme 16:33:00 Blkt: I wrote a utility for internal use only in lisp here, and my boss said "rewrite it in a language other people know" so I ported it to python. 16:33:07 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-tspfrvshycldvned] has joined #lisp 16:33:53 that's sad, isn't it? 16:33:53 I hate that boss. Wanna send a drone up his/her butt. 16:34:18 Let's kill all the bosses. 16:34:20 To be fair, he prototypes his stuff in haskell and then ports to python 16:34:32 than he's a good boss 16:34:34 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:44 our boss used to code in VB 16:34:47 at least he doesn't ask you to do something he doesn't do himself 16:34:50 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:53 kind of old style (he's in his fifties) 16:34:59 and at least he, you know... writes code himself :) 16:35:00 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:35:00 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 *RenJuan* tries to 'member was it pythong i put the permanent kibosh on 16:35:25 MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:35:34 *zero_coder* thinks something is amiss 16:35:49 zero_coder: something is rotten on the internets? 16:36:19 Adlai|work: nope :{ 16:36:21 :P 16:36:24 i was just kiddin 16:37:16 Adlai|work: yeah, well he had to take over some ops related stuff that was written in about 12 different languages so has been pushing for a smaller number of lingua francas 16:37:58 *RenJuan* .oO(lingua skanka morelike) 16:39:19 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:21 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:11 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-012-154.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:48 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:41:50 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:50 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 16:41:50 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-012-154.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:41:50 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 16:50:19 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52:01 -!- impulse- [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:52:18 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:53:38 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hgtiwnnuapabqaru] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:54:29 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-nnfdnzsipiunqziq] has joined #lisp 16:55:06 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:57:31 how can i extract the address and port number out of the string "http://www.example.com:80", so that (let ((address "http://www.example.com") (port "80"))) ? 16:57:56 axion: I would use the puri lib 16:58:29 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:58:53 would that help? im dealing with non standard addresses...that was just an example. sometimes they are formatted as "preface+tcp://example.com:80" 16:59:05 (let ((uri (puri:parse-uri "http://www.example.com:80/"))) (list (puri:uri-host uri) (puri:uri-port uri))) 16:59:09 looks like a valid URL to me 16:59:18 I don't think + is an illegal character in a scheme 16:59:25 nisstyre_ [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 axion: in any case, if your strings are not urls, you can use a regular expression. 16:59:42 axion: use cl-ppcre for that. 16:59:50 "now you have 2 problems" 16:59:52 Or a generic parsing library like esrap 16:59:58 whartung: "yawn" 17:00:03 :) 17:00:05 ok thanks. i am very bad with regex. hopefully doesnt come down to that 17:00:11 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:17 I just tested "preface+tcp://example.com:80" with puri, it's all ok 17:00:33 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 (puri:uri-scheme (puri:parse-uri "preface+tcp://www.example.com:8042")) :PREFACE+TCP 17:01:26 great 17:01:37 dim: you're aware that your test does not mean anything, right? 17:01:46 aftersha_ [~textual@h-243-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:01:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:01 well I don't know what axion really wants to do 17:02:25 -!- harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:37 i want to store the port in a variable, and everything before it in a variable 17:04:11 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:04:25 -!- jaimef [jaimef@166.84.6.60] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:04:28 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:05:36 lkmtrade [~lkmtrade@91.217.162.110] has joined #lisp 17:06:01 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@126.Red-83-42-198.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:06:46 dim: of course it's ok, since it's an URI. 17:07:43 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.65.5] has joined #lisp 17:07:57 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:08 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:56 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:25 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:59 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-lclzlptjmplqtoup] has quit [Ping timeout: 267 seconds] 17:13:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-61-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:59 (loop for d in (directory (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "/") :name :wild)) do (pathname-name d ));; shouldn't that print the filename of all files found under / recursively? 17:14:06 -!- atgreen [~green@207.112.112.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:14:10 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 17:15:30 jaimef: read that form again! 17:15:50 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 clhs directory 17:15:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dir.htm 17:16:02 jaimef: and read this ^ again. 17:16:11 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:12 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 17:18:09 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-7-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:20 jaimef: that won't print anything or recurse 17:18:45 harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:37 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-62-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:55 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [Client Quit] 17:20:43 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:20:54 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:21:24 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 17:21:48 pjb: do you have #! clisp examples online? (I can't seem to find them again) 17:22:03 nothing like thumping a spec that is soo featureless 17:22:43 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 17:24:37 pjb: found http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Deployment which might be all I wanted, that's for a friend starting with clisp for unix scripting 17:24:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:25:24 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:28:05 dim: how can i have puri:uri-scheme return the string like the other functions? 17:28:45 princ fixed it. thanks 17:29:37 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:49 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:21 wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 17:32:55 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:34 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:33:47 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has left #lisp 17:35:43 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-98-253-57-51.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:26 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Quit: jangle] 17:36:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:57 -!- ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38:49 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:16 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:44 JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has joined #lisp 17:39:44 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:40:10 macin [~macin@59.91.10.94] has joined #lisp 17:40:12 -!- lkmtrade [~lkmtrade@91.217.162.110] has quit [K-Lined] 17:41:55 dim: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=public/bin&h=48ee6f9de26471537b785e0a2585adee0b382eb1&hb=72c39f7c0a0f0c075214ea0f5b1faaa9d5a9973a 17:42:16 thanks! 17:43:07 jaimef: compare :wild with :wild-inferior, and notice where you can use them. Also type in your shell: df -i and ponder on the meaning of it. 17:43:09 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:41 I can't execute any more commands once after i executed (read-line) inside lispbox. 17:46:13 -!- xrq [~user@unaffiliated/xrq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:32 macin: you should enter a line. 17:46:32 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:46:42 macin: typing RET in the right window. 17:47:45 vaporatorius [~vaporator@60.Red-88-5-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:08 -!- marsbot is now known as marsam 17:52:56 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:34 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 17:53:36 -!- macin [~macin@59.91.10.94] has left #lisp 17:54:02 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-243-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:54:15 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit 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[~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 18:27:59 -!- nisstyre_ [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 18:28:29 pjb pondering away at what filesystem code does with inodes... :P 18:28:49 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 18:29:03 pjb this is ment to run on a very small system with less than a few thousand inodes 18:31:27 *|3b|* suspects the point is that a full recursive directory listing would be large/slow on a large drive 18:32:09 remindes me of the time a NAS ran out of inodes with the disks only 60% full and it ran ext4 so we couldn't increase the indoes without reformatting 18:32:35 heh 18:36:28 better than running out of system vnodes 18:38:07 -!- sword [~sword@2601:7:1900:f4:e2cb:4eff:fef7:a13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:58 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 18:41:15 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uqsmhlzitrhkqlnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:22 jasom: that shows a certain... aspect of ext4s age :> 18:50:10 ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.128] has joined #lisp 18:50:52 jasom: anyway, inode is these day just a lingo for FS metadata describing a piece of data on disk. Some filesystems made in 80s have limited amount of them :P 18:51:59 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:54:03 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@wlan234-175.wlan.uni-ulm.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 18:58:01 patrick85 [~patrick85@wlan234-175.wlan.uni-ulm.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:07 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:01:28 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:15 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:04:07 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:05:13 __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:36 -!- __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has left #lisp 19:05:59 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 19:08:27 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:41 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-nnfdnzsipiunqziq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:56 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-puqiczvsxhjavwza] has joined #lisp 19:09:12 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:27 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:29 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.65.5] has joined #lisp 19:09:46 waa [~waa@187-5-44-193.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:11:02 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:25 -!- mindCrime_ is now known as mindCrime 19:12:45 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@wlan234-175.wlan.uni-ulm.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:00 __prefect [~prefect@koln-5d817f67.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:12 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:16 jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 jaimef: less than a few thousand inode is quite an exceptional file system nowadays 19:18:59 My file systems have 244195328 52436992 15269888 238480 i-nodes each. 19:19:25 p_l: yeah, I couldn't believe a company shipped a 12-bay NAS with ext4 as the filesystem 19:19:45 jasom: or at the very least badly formatted ext4 19:21:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:59 pjb: think mobile device 19:24:12 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:24:14 pjb this is for mocl 19:24:26 so unable to use iolib or the other options in QL 19:24:48 Beware, mobile can have big sdcards or other devices connected or mounted. 19:25:15 let the BC handle that :P 19:25:19 p_l: What file system with dynamic i-nodes do you use? IIRC, reiserfs did. 19:25:46 -!- scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:26:02 yeah left a lot of dangling inodes for AFS client cache 19:26:03 AFAIK all b+tree file-systems have that property 19:26:10 reiserfs, xfs, btrfs 19:26:19 pjb: dynamic i-node allocation happens on NTFS, ZFS doesn't have inodes in classical sense, XFS had them organized so that I never ever had to look it up 19:26:53 ODS-2/5 has its inode equivalent done similarly to NTFS 19:27:09 HPFS? 19:27:33 jaimef: you mean OS/2 HPFS? 19:27:38 Perhaps I should try xfs, then; but I like the stability of ext3. I'm not even using ext4 yet (I had a problem with it once). 19:27:43 *jaimef* misparsed ODS-2/5 as OS/2 19:28:06 jaimef: no, ODS-2/5 is Files-11 On Disk Structure v2 and v5 19:28:31 -!- ggole [~ggole@106.68.179.47] has quit [] 19:28:35 from the old times when filesystem might be called "on disk structure" :P 19:28:50 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 19:29:38 pjb: if you use subversion at all, skip xfs. One of its metadata operations that svn up and svn co does a lot is painfully slow 19:30:04 I would call reiserfs pretty stable; I've been using it for about a decade at this point 19:30:36 jasom: SVN is from my experience always painfully slow. OTOH, XFS had always slow file creation/deletion and kinda prioritized fast read/write to files instead 19:31:05 I stopped recommending or using reiserfs after I managed to somehow corrupt inodes that were not written to at all by random shutdown 19:31:07 jfs is also dynamic inodes 19:31:48 jasom: with the exception of ODS-2/5 and ext, all the filesystems mentioned were designed in 90s or later 19:31:51 Not that random shutdowns occur often, but they occur more often than emacs crashes, so 19:32:27 jasom: as such, they were not optimized for slow 8" spindles containing at best 2G of data :) 19:33:27 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:ad44:f655:8e34:ad95] has joined #lisp 19:39:13 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 19:41:36 pjb: xfs is nice 19:41:40 -!- Adlai|work [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 19:42:07 see, I'm too young. First hard-drive I saw was 5.25" and first networking cabling I wired was 10BASE2 19:42:19 I never had an acoustically coupled modem either. 19:43:05 jasom: well, same for me, but I ended up spelunking with old software and hardware because there were lessons to learn from it 19:43:06 zfs is nicer imho :P 19:47:09 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 19:47:53 I built my own accoustically coupled modem! 19:50:19 -!- arenz [~arenz@82.197.162.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:50:41 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Quit: jangle] 19:50:44 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:14 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 19:51:26 francogrex [~user@109.128.79.250] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 19:54:44 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 19:56:21 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:57:37 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:08 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-191-156.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:23 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:03:18 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:04 Sophie19 [~Sophie19@95.141.29.54] has joined #lisp 20:05:19 -!- Sophie19 [~Sophie19@95.141.29.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:50 -!- marsbot is now known as marsam 20:11:55 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:12:17 patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:13 -!- marsam is now known as marsbot 20:17:28 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:37 -!- ck`` [~user@aftr-37-24-147-55.unity-media.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:42 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-208.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 20:23:01 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD32AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:23:28 pnpuff [~f@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:24:02 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:28:44 Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has joined #lisp 20:31:14 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:31:26 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-qodlgwwnptxqbrjq] has joined #lisp 20:35:08 ASau [~user@46.114.20.243] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:20 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:28 gXen [~davidbiel@cs78187062.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:40:50 -!- gXen [~davidbiel@cs78187062.pp.htv.fi] has left #lisp 20:41:26 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:ad44:f655:8e34:ad95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:01 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:56 wow pjb. how ... retro? 20:47:19 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:47:57 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:50:59 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:07 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:51:53 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 20:53:09 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:15 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-101-19.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:53:33 is it possible to grab the lambda list of a function at run-time? 20:53:55 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:54:07 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 20:54:08 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:52 describe gives the argument list.... 20:56:42 <|3b|> not reliably/portably 20:56:56 <|3b|> clhs f-l-e 20:56:57 function-lambda-expression: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 20:57:00 -!- pnpuff [~f@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:57:19 <|3b|> ^ is the closest portable option 20:57:19 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:57:34 <|3b|> but it isn't required to return anything useful 20:58:03 dim: you can peek into the guts of slime to see how it provides hints on each system. 20:58:06 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime disappeared by communication failure] 20:58:07 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:42 mmm 20:58:57 the whole idea here is just to be lazy you know 20:59:21 yeah. 20:59:54 I want to avoid maintaining meta information, the idea is to generate a CLI command list from a structure, and I would like to get the number of arguments directly from the lambda list of the function 21:00:41 right. you might have to wrap it in (def-cli-function ...) and do some bookkeeping yourself. 21:00:50 hm, I have a weird doubt 21:01:11 tell me more, or don't! 21:01:17 when I generate an executable binary in SBCL, I'm actually producing an image of my current environment, right? 21:01:21 Jesin [~Jesin@pool-96-255-140-87.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:55 so, how does SBCL manages to compile itself without the environment of compiler that compiled it? 21:02:13 Denommus: xof wrote a paper on the topic, iirc 21:02:26 http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/s32008/sbcl.pdf is it 21:02:38 bjorkintosh: it wasn't retro, I did that in the 70s! 21:02:55 Denommus: an executable binary in sbcl is a snapshot of the running environment's memory with the C runtime tacked on. 21:03:11 normally it is two pieces, a C runtime and a memory image file. 21:03:29 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:19 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:07 hm 21:05:18 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.254.238] has joined #lisp 21:05:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.254.238] has quit [Changing host] 21:05:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:06:21 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 21:06:25 -!- __prefect [~prefect@koln-5d817f67.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:39 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 21:07:10 Xach: the define-command macro is a good idea thanks 21:07:50 -!- wilfredh [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-baqukvsvyswtukkj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:08:18 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:43 chris11 [~chris11@173-22-32-37.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:04 pjb, coolness. 21:11:57 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:13:30 b 21:14:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-19.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:14:54 JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has joined #lisp 21:15:45 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:16:24 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:38 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:33 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.79.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:32 -!- cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-jvpbuwetpqasdind] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:33 -!- rune1 [~anonymous@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: rune1] 21:23:08 -!- mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:27 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:32 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-33.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:35:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 21:36:24 JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.25] has joined #lisp 21:37:00 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:37:54 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:37 does anyone have repl in slime syntax highlighted? Or is it just missing feature? 21:41:46 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 21:43:49 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:03 configure emacs ? 21:44:06 cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-hgztdlmpjmunpeqm] has joined #lisp 21:44:35 comint-mode 21:44:56 danderse` [~user@242.214.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 devon [~devon@2001:470:8b2d:7fc:a800:ff:febf:caf9] has joined #lisp 21:45:18 therik: slime-fancy? 21:47:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:55 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48:59 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:47 -!- izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has quit [Quit: If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.] 21:50:24 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:49 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has left #lisp 21:54:52 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD32AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:55:15 -!- sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:56:08 -!- Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:56:39 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 21:56:55 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-qodlgwwnptxqbrjq] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:00 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 21:58:14 is a macro that returns nil a sign of a bad form? 21:58:27 the macro compiles stuff and fills in a data structure 21:58:41 and I want to use &body, basically 22:00:35 <|3b|> if it returns NIL because it could tell it should evaluate to NIL, that is OK 22:00:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-19.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:58 <|3b|> if you are doing side effects during macroexpansion instead of returning code, that is not as OK 22:01:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:30 side effects is what I do 22:01:45 <|3b|> expand to an eval-when that does the side effects instead 22:01:49 I'm not sure how to code them in a defun when I want the &body 22:02:17 the macro should expand to an eval-when form, interesting 22:02:21 <|3b|> consider how annoyed people (including future-you) trying to figure out the code would be when they tried to macroexpand the form to see what it does 22:02:42 so the macro generates code and CL will run that code at load or compile time if I tell it too, it's not too late?! 22:02:52 <|3b|> or consider what happens when an editor or code walker or whatever expands the macro multiple times 22:03:02 yeah I feel it's wrong already ;-) 22:03:11 (hence talking about it here) 22:03:59 Amy26 [~Amy26@95.141.29.54] has joined #lisp 22:04:15 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 22:04:29 <|3b|> the macro is expanded during evaluation or compilation, so if it expands to eval-when specifying those times, the result would happen at pretty much the same time 22:04:46 wildermuthn [~wildermut@97.87.155.102] has joined #lisp 22:05:13 *|3b|* isn't sure what you mean about the &body stuff though, so you might want something else 22:05:13 -!- Amy26 [~Amy26@95.141.29.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:24 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:24 I'm going to try in a minute 22:06:33 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:09 When a macro changes, is there a way to automatically redefine the functions that use that macro? 22:07:37 <|3b|> not built in 22:08:05 <|3b|> slime might be able to do it in a few keys on some implementations though if i remember right 22:08:19 wildermuthn: but otherwise, there's a well known algorithm that does it. You just have to implement it. 22:08:29 I have a macro that basically returns a top-level symbol in order to evaluate it. 22:08:47 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@60.Red-88-5-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:09:06 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 22:09:17 *|3b|* usually just recompiles the whole project for that sort of thing though, or tries to rewrite the macro to be more easily modifiable without modifyin callers if it happens a lot 22:09:30 dim: macros should not have side effects, or at least, they should be idempotent. There's telling how many times they'll be expanded, and in what environments (compilers, editors, documentation extraction tools, etc). 22:10:21 s/telling/no telling/ 22:10:31 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:10:32 yeah, I didn't know that you could expand to an (eval-when :compile) form 22:10:34 -!- danderse` is now known as dandersen 22:10:40 -!- dandersen [~user@242.214.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 22:10:41 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 22:11:10 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:11:13 <|3b|> dim: usually you want all 3 in eval-when 22:11:54 well macroexpansion happens at compile time, so I didn't know you could expand to a form that is to be executed at the same compile time, I meant 22:11:56 or something 22:12:05 Basically, I have a list that I want to eval from within a function. Eval evaluates its arguments in a "null lexical environment"... is there a way around that? 22:12:08 <|3b|> it could happen during evaluation too 22:12:58 <|3b|> which doesn't imply compilation on all implementations 22:13:38 There's no way around that. 22:14:22 wildermuthn: what kind of list is that? You don't evaluate lists usually, you evalute forms. About only 0.00000001% of the lists won't produce an error when evaluating them. 22:14:26 https://gist.github.com/wildermuthn/9538180 - I'm trying to evaluate a *operations* list... macro works fine, unless *operations* changes, which is will. 22:14:27 <|3b|> and unless you are purely using the results for later compilation of that file, you probably want it when you load too, since you might want to use the results when recompiling later files even if that one is unchanged so just reloaded from a fasl 22:14:35 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.190.1] has joined #lisp 22:15:04 pbj, thanks, it is list of forms I should say? 22:15:51 It's not obvious from the paste what kind of list you want to evaluate. Can you give an example (eval '()) ? 22:16:20 <|3b|> possibly you want to store a closure in *operations* instead? 22:16:30 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.0] has joined #lisp 22:16:44 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has joined #lisp 22:17:18 <|3b|> then you can call it directly, and pass whatever environment you want as arguments 22:17:30 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:34 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-36.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:17:45 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-36.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:56 *operations* is (or (equal noun "mail") "mail")) 22:18:01 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 22:18:11 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-36.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:18:17 oops 22:18:28 (or (if (equal noun "mail") "mail")) 22:18:50 (insert-op (create-op "mail" "mail")) --> (insert-op (insert-op '((if (equal noun "mail") "mail")))) ; what does this mean??? 22:18:59 so I'm just trying to add a condition to post-request. 22:19:00 this is crazy code. 22:19:10 beginner noob here, yep... 22:19:13 ;) 22:19:23 You should forget macros for a while. 22:19:26 And forget about eval. 22:20:49 bad EVAL-WHEN situation list: (:COMPILE :EXECUTE) 22:20:57 That's old fashioned. 22:21:01 I don't know what's next 22:21:11 The modern keywords are (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) 22:21:24 right. 22:21:33 ok is SBCL non-conforming then? 22:21:43 No, the old keywords are still valid. 22:21:50 But the new ones are more meaningful. 22:22:00 <|3b|> aren't the old ones not keywords? 22:22:03 I mean it rejects the old ones apparently? 22:22:16 -!- xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:28 <|3b|> (compile execute) not (:compile :execute) 22:22:42 then I prefer the new ones ;-) 22:23:00 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 22:23:38 <|3b|> ah, (compile eval) not execute also 22:23:46 Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:24:55 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:37 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:43 Is there no way to use eval without losing your local context? 22:25:58 No, there is no way. 22:26:04 Forget EVAL! 22:26:17 hah 22:26:24 alrighty. 22:28:43 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32:38 -!- wildermuthn [~wildermut@97.87.155.102] has left #lisp 22:32:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:41 -!- _zxq9_ [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:34:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:35:48 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 22:35:55 -!- AdmiralBumbleBee [~derpderp@pool-173-65-191-69.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: AdmiralBumbleBee] 22:36:26 -!- chris11 [~chris11@173-22-32-37.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 22:39:23 cheryllium [~cheryl@128.237.118.109] has joined #lisp 22:39:28 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Changing host] 22:39:28 killmaster [~killmaste@unaffiliated/killmaster/x-109233] has joined #lisp 22:39:39 arrsim [~user@128.250.116.182] has joined #lisp 22:41:29 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.65.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:37 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:53:06 KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 22:53:22 Xach: the manage-it-with-a-macro idea was actually brillant, sir 22:55:12 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:55:53 tusen tack 22:55:59 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 22:56:27 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:55 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:17 (that confuses google translate, and me) ;-) 22:59:39 i seem to remember years ago that hyperspec.el would pop up definitions inside an emacs buffer rather than force me to leave emacs, where I feel alone and scared. Is there still a way to do that? 23:00:38 yzzyx`: you can set your web browser to the emacs browser (w3 or w3c or something) 23:01:07 ah, right, okay, i'll have a poke around the source, thanks. 23:01:39 -!- sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:01:48 yzzyx`: it's something like setting browse-url-browser-function 23:02:07 C-h v on that might help 23:02:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:03:37 -!- eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:06 yep, that was it, browse-url's customization group is enormous, that would have taken me a while to find, thanks :) 23:09:22 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 23:10:01 -!- adsisco [sid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fpdebgxhfbqmqdsm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:22 atgreen [~green@207.112.112.168] has joined #lisp 23:11:36 adsisco [sid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-utsxtnfgdkbyveta] has joined #lisp 23:12:18 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:27 -!- ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:11 dandersen [~user@242.214.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 23:17:12 -!- dandersen [~user@242.214.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 23:17:13 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 23:18:56 ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has joined #lisp 23:18:57 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 23:19:47 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:19 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 23:23:06 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 23:23:22 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 23:23:25 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 23:24:37 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 23:24:49 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:56 say i changed the class of som instance, at what point can i give it init args to initialize some of the new slots, say is this wrong: (chang-class record 'delete-record :length (lenght objects)) when record is initially an instance of another class ? 23:26:47 should i change that to (change-class record 'delete-record) (setf (slot-value record :lenght) blah) rather ? 23:26:55 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-36.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:49 lenght is a slot of class delete-record 23:28:02 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 23:28:17 oleo: change-class can take the initargs. 23:28:24 ah 23:28:30 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:30 ok thank you 23:29:05 ok then it seems that maybe the protocol classes are forwared referenced classes rather... 23:29:16 else i can't explain why some things fail .... 23:29:23 undo-record in mcclim is not working..... 23:30:28 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZZ] 23:31:43 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:46 typing asdfgh in the listener, then pressing C-x u for undo gives me error:i the slot length is missing from the object 23:32:24 Xach: if you're bored or curious, here's what I ended up with: http://git.tapoueh.org/?p=pginstall.git;a=blob;f=src/main/cli.lisp;h=54254954fd70cd53b1b78e71fd0eb685ec11f524;hb=HEAD 23:32:30 -!- alpha- [~silver@unaffiliated/alpha--] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:34:01 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:20 (oh, *old-command* is not supposed to have made it through the commit) 23:35:37 -!- Jesin [~Jesin@pool-96-255-140-87.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:41 dim: I think I might have used a hash table instead of a list. Did you consider that? 23:35:50 I did 23:36:07 it wasn't clean how much that would have helped matching "verbs" in there 23:36:21 Well, it would have been a gethash instead of a loop, for one. 23:36:31 patrick8_ [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:36:34 so I went with a list, and the first time I defined again a command, switched to a vector to have (setf (aref ...)) 23:36:45 a loop of gethash 23:36:57 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 23:36:58 I guess I can't figure out the structure based on the code, then. 23:37:03 then how do you keep the inner one to setf it? 23:37:22 here are 2 lines of usage: 23:37:25 config set NAME VALUE set config variable NAME to VALUE 23:37:26 config get NAME get config value for variable NAME 23:37:42 the hash would have had "config" then "set" and "get" somehow 23:37:43 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 23:38:01 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:14 so that you could match ./pginstall config set dburi postgresql:///pginstall, or another command, ./pginstall config get name 23:38:19 -!- nand1 [~user@se4x.mullvad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:38:23 A list is a fine hash key. 23:38:43 the trick is that I don't know how long the list is going to be from the command 23:38:48 bgs101 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:38:55 I have to discover that *depending on the command* 23:38:57 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:13 I wanted to have that option to have 1, 2 3 or more verbs per command 23:39:24 OK 23:39:32 hence the question at the beginning about how to extract the lambda list from a defun at run-time 23:39:39 nug700_ [~nug700@71-223-191-156.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:42 RazLaptop2 [~Intertric@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:12 Well, the nice thing about doing it as a macro is you can change your mind about the backend without updating the syntax 23:40:14 I have: animal list pgconfig; also: animal add pgconfig PATH; that are using 3 verbs 23:40:20 exactly 23:40:36 and I could even keep track of the "docstring" and use it to generate the usage text 23:40:44 stepnem_ [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 23:40:48 it was the idea that I needed ;-) 23:40:58 nand1 [~user@se4x.mullvad.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:01 nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-kfxoxqhcvuhsumcv] has joined #lisp 23:41:02 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:41:23 (then I don't claim my implementation or specs to be a particulary beautiful work of art, but at least I could achieve doing them as I pictured them) 23:41:56 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:56 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 23:42:03 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:22 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:45:25 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:25 joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has joined #lisp 23:45:25 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:25 quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-247-1.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:45:38 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:41 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-puqiczvsxhjavwza] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:43 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 23:45:43 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:45:44 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 321 seconds] 23:45:44 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 321 seconds] 23:45:44 -!- RazLaptop [~Intertric@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 321 seconds] 23:45:44 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-211-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 321 seconds] 23:45:45 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 321 seconds] 23:45:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:45:46 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 23:46:03 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:12 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-191-156.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 23:46:25 -!- harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:43 harish_ [~harish@n182z3l133.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:10 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 23:47:13 -!- ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:17 dannybit10 [~dannybit@bsc3.qc.cuny.edu] has joined #lisp 23:47:37 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:45 ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has joined #lisp 23:49:36 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:50:39 hi i have to make a function called insert that recursively given N (any real number) and L (any list of real numbes in ascending order) then the function will insert the number in the right position 23:50:45 this is what i have http://paste.lisp.org/display/141632 23:51:12 so (insert 4 '(0 0 1 2 4)) --> (0 0 1 2 4 4) 23:51:52 the problem is that the function doesn't work when l is nil, it should do (insert 8 '()) --> (8) instead it prints out nil 23:52:03 sounds much like an assingment to me, and the solution is merge, right? 23:52:25 it is an assignment i got it to work 23:52:34 but it doens't work when l is nil 23:52:36 scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 23:53:01 (merge 'list '(4) '(0 0 1 2 4) #'<) 23:53:01 merge? 23:53:42 so (defun insert (n l &optional (op #'<)) (merge 'list (list n) l op)) 23:53:47 I thing you're done 23:54:09 btw, that's why a teacher I know insists on teaching programming with scheme, so that you actually have to write code ;-) 23:54:51 mmm this works thanks but i insert has to be a recursive function 23:55:07 now you have work to do, see? smart teacher 23:55:16 yeah :) 23:55:20 anyway I'm off, should be sleeping now 23:55:22 good luck 23:55:26 thanks 23:56:25 is there a way to check if you are calling a recursive function for the first time? 23:56:45 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:57:27 <|3b|> one easy way is to have a separate function for the first call, or put the recursive part in a local function with LABELS 23:59:37 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp