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[~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:00:56 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:35 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:21 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:57 nipra [~nipra@122.177.181.10] has joined #lisp 18:03:07 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 18:03:56 Carmen28 [~Carmen28@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 18:03:58 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Carmen28@37.221.173.* 18:03:58 -!- Carmen28 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Peddling pr0n is... prohibited) 18:04:20 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 18:05:24 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:09:03 -!- p_l has set mode -b *!*Carmen28@37.221.173.* 18:09:12 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:52 crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 18:10:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:11:47 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:03 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:12:07 rk[lies]_ [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 18:12:26 slyrus: agree 100% with you on keyword args. I've heard that many times before too. (I seem to recall it mentioned in a discussion of viaweb's implementation, for example). 18:13:23 approximately: "i thought keyword args were stupid and unlispy until i had a problem they solved" 18:13:59 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:14 I need to start a collection of "Things I don't want to do, but my future self wants me to do" 18:14:44 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 -!- rk[lies] [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:15:32 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:16:16 save more money, quit drinking? 18:16:29 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:05 *drewc* was disconnected from 9AM PST 'til 10, and has no idea what slyrus said about keywords, but probably agrees. 18:17:08 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:09 Take up BASE jumping! Im not sure if my future self has a death wish, or just wants to be a good BASE jumper. 18:17:23 I do agree with Xach though! 18:17:40 Xach: I was thinking more about specific advice related to programming, but yeah. 18:17:57 Though I don't think my future self would have a problem with my drinking 18:18:11 < slyrus> I have to remind myself when tempted to have functions with optional args -- don't do it! use keywords instead. your future self will thank you later. 18:18:15 < slyrus> I have to remind myself when tempted to have functions with optional args -- don't do it! use keywords instead. your future self will thank you later. 18:18:31 wait ... does coffee count as a drink? it is expensive after all, and I am drinking it now ! 18:18:41 jasom: ah, makes sense. 18:18:49 *jasom* needs a new trackball that has better debouncing on the mouse-wheel click 18:19:00 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:08 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:19:52 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 I often now use keywords as a LET type form ... and for that matter, started using &AUX as well... again to save on LET'ing. 18:20:31 *jasom* goes back and forth on &aux 18:20:44 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 18:20:51 I never liked optional args, and always liked keywords, so that was never a choice in my head 18:21:52 note keyword args can be killer for call overhead 18:22:28 jasom: I have just started to use it more ... but basically (mapcar (lambda (a &aux (b (c a)) (c foo)) ...) ...) makes &aux make sense to me. 18:23:16 I like using &aux for function-level constants 18:23:20 oGMo: really? I thought only when using APPLY 18:23:44 oGMo: if profiling gives you "keywords are taking all your time", that is a good and easy thing to fix :) 18:24:04 drewc: right 18:25:01 drewc: otoh, if you're doing a lot of keyword calls, and you're overall slow, it can add up 18:25:01 *drewc* notes that MAKE-INSTANCE and the MAKE-(struct name) uses keywords by default, yet has never been a performance concern for him 18:25:06 and you won't see that profiling 18:25:15 but, obviously, no reason to prematurely optimize 18:25:56 drewc: this is something that would be over tens of thousands of calls and cutting your FPS down, or something, not "I made some objects and it was pretty fast" 18:26:21 oGMo: do you have any numbers on the overhead? 18:26:21 if you're making objects fast enough to notice, you've probably got other issues 18:26:28 oGMo: It might  its not uncommon for gf dispatchers to show up in my profiles, but Im not sure off the top of my head how keywords are handled. 18:26:34 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 18:26:34 jasom: not on hand, it's easy enough to benchmark, go do it if you care :p 18:26:37 ggole_ [~ggole@58-7-109-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 18:26:58 i did at one point when i was testing the impact of GFs and keyword arguments and fixed arguments 18:26:59 *jasom* is very surprised it has any effect at all 18:27:05 I'd think object allocation and initialization takes much more time than parsing kargs. 18:27:07 sellout-: sure 18:27:17 sellout-: also just for regular functions iirc 18:27:27 LiamH [~healy@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 18:27:43 oGMo: thank g-d that 0.0000000000000000000000001 FPS is a good rate for my servers .. better than the -infinity FPS they have now. 18:28:02 there are other oddities (or not really), like specializing on the _last_ of a 7-argument function is a lot slower than specializing on the first 18:28:18 drewc: it's a lot more impactful than that :p 18:28:20 *drewc* puts more keywords args in the base package functions to see it it helps increase the FPS :P 18:28:37 s/it it/if it/ 18:28:38 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-218-77.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:43 obviously if you're not actually writing something high performance you don't care 18:29:01 and no your server anything isn't high performance 18:29:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:29:57 modern servers have CPU to burn, for sure. 18:30:22 well, my '1,000,000 hits/second' profile is about 999,998 more then it gets practically, so beyond that, high performance is not needed. It turns out that network speed is the killer. 18:30:39 yeah CPU (and server count) is wasted at the expense of cranking out code quickly, and that's not a bad thing 18:30:43 imagine 18:30:49 -!- ggole_ is now known as ggole 18:31:44 What? No, my code totally needs to run in the kernel for speed. 18:31:48 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:51 *ggole* unrolls some loops 18:33:02 in the good ol days of obj-c, for tight loops, you'd do the dispatch once and get the inevitable function pointer, then call it directly within the loop. 18:33:02 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:58 the keywords issue is more a binding problem than a dispatch problem, typically 18:34:16 Duane Rettig wrote a bit about how franz makes it fast 18:34:38 Seems like it would be tricky to implement anything aggressive 18:35:07 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:35:19 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:35:25 of course, in obj-c, it doesn't dispatch based on the types of the arguments. 18:35:28 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 18:35:35 -!- Borbus_ is now known as Borbus 18:35:38 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:38 but it would be interesting if some of that mechanism was exposed 18:36:51 whartung: it's not dispatch, you can't specialize on keyword arguments, and you're not otherwise picking a function based on what arguments are there 18:37:13 binding and checking, i guess 18:37:29 sure 18:37:37 but again, not an issue unless it's an issue, then you can fix it 18:38:34 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:14 Xach: where was that? I poked around a bit and didn't see anything. 18:39:50 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39:52 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:41:06 ggole: it's on comp.lang.lisp somewhere. i can't find it either :( 18:41:13 i should make a duane rettig archive 18:41:37 -!- milosn_ is now known as milosn 18:42:14 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 18:42:24 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:28 -!- alezost [~user@128.70.206.28] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:44:01 -!- Fare [rMiF2Yy@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:23 Xach: was it this? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/wTJ1i77ORHI/TgRoMEYq05YJ 18:45:34 (Apologies for using groups -_-) 18:46:09 Anyway it seems like if it's not declared (notinline) and it's in the same source-file there should be no overhead 18:46:20 alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:46:54 since you can safely statically resolve the function call bindings in that case 18:49:42 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has joined #lisp 18:49:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@227.220-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:49:57 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@227.220-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 18:49:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:53:20 izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has joined #lisp 18:54:24 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:16 ggole: no, though that is pretty interesting, thanks for the link! 18:56:40 ggole: actually, maybe it is. 18:57:05 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:56 I like the single instruction car trick. 18:58:02 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:59:03 vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9E9F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:57 Fare [soZa@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:05 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 19:03:50 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 19:04:29 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C182.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:51 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:05:29 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:10:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:33 Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:51 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fblgdgfwvszfwubp] has joined #lisp 19:14:02 rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has joined #lisp 19:14:17 -!- rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has left #lisp 19:14:55 rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has joined #lisp 19:15:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-16-86.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:51 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 19:17:50 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 19:18:32 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:19 jmolinaso [~smuxi@d54C39A61.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:20:33 hi lisp hackers 19:20:52 I'm learning lisp, more exactly elisp and sbcl 19:21:12 my idea to get to know better is to develop a web framework 19:21:42 I've check some webservers, the one I tested is hunchentoot 19:21:57 problem is I don't get to install it properly 19:22:08 in my freebsd complains about chunga 19:22:27 any ideas/advices/directions would be very welcome 19:22:30 jmolinaso: I highly recommend installing via quicklisp http://quicklisp.org/beta 19:23:06 jasom: ok 19:23:49 jmolinaso: it is a library manager for lisp; once it's installed you can just do (ql:quickload :hunchentoot) and it will download hunchentoot plus all dependencies 19:24:08 yes, I made some investigation in that one too 19:24:08 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:24:12 I was using asdf 19:24:27 so does quicklisp 19:24:28 jmolinaso: asdf and quicklisp solve different problems 19:24:38 just to get closer to the metal, my idea is then move forward to quicklisp 19:24:40 jmolinaso: asdf manages compilation and loading of libraries you already have installed 19:24:47 -!- flip214_ is now known as flip214 19:24:48 a ok 19:24:54 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 19:24:54 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:25:12 quicklisp downloads the libraries and then uses asdf to compile and load them 19:25:31 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-134-175-102.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:37 ok 19:25:54 so is not like using quicklisp i miss things from asdf 19:25:56 jmolinaso: can I suggest _not_ learning by using a framework you are going to develop sans know-how, but rather develop an 'application' to see what frame it might need? 19:26:03 jmolinaso: correct 19:26:36 drewc: what do you mean? 19:26:38 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:27:02 I've being learning django 19:27:12 and I found it quite powerful 19:27:22 jmolinaso: if your frames are no good, what you build on top of it is likely not going to improve the framework 19:27:30 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:31 then via investigation and reading some essays from Paul Graham 19:27:35 I end up in this world 19:27:38 django .. I love gypsy jazz! 19:28:02 *drewc* even has the acoustic guitar for it! :) 19:28:18 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:28:32 I know, the idea is to get to know the language, not to build a tool 19:28:48 and I see web frameworks quite a nice environment 19:29:07 if I get something nice that I can release as open source, believe me I will 19:29:13 but now is just for fun 19:29:45 and you want to ruin your fun by developing a framework before you know _how_? ;) 19:30:37 drewc: well I'm not planning to start coding now! 19:30:55 I target something, and start finding things around that may help me 19:31:01 and then start developing 19:31:02 OR: I have been a professional CL web developer for over 10 years at this point, and my framework is CL ... so take what I say with a grain of salt. 19:31:15 I have no boss, no time frame, no economical pressure, etc 19:31:22 for the record, I disagree with drewc 19:31:44 writing something that you've written before is a good way to learn a new language 19:32:02 I'd work through the basics first though (e.g. read PCL) 19:32:27 jasom: true, true. 19:32:30 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:38 jasom: that's the idea, i know something about django, I know something about spring 19:32:45 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:32:52 cabaire [~nobody@p54A74088.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:00 so why not get something in clisp or sbcl 19:33:11 not yet 100% which one 19:33:18 but sbcl find it quite nice 19:33:27 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:2dcd:dc0b:3a89:752] has joined #lisp 19:33:31 I recommend sbcl+emacs+slime for developing with lisp 19:33:51 (slime is a lisp IDE written for emacs) 19:34:03 jasom: the problem I see is that taking stuff that you know for other languages and trying to make lisp behave that way is a recipe for disaster ... but I used python and C before a found Lisp, so that was likely the disaster brewing :D 19:34:34 drewc: I don't know a way to prevent people from doing that, so I just let them learn the hard way :) 19:34:49 jasom: thanks, funny story, I end up in Lisp because at work I need Perl for development and I found the debug on Emacs pretty powerful 19:34:55 from there to elisp 19:34:59 and now I'm here 19:35:06 with that bold target :) 19:35:07 "take what I say with a grain of salt" :) 19:35:29 everyone will write FORTRAN/C/Python/Whatever in lisp before they write lisp in lisp, unless they learn lisp first. I find writing X in lisp to be a good shortcut to getting familiar with the lisp environment. 19:35:49 Yea, I disagree drewc. Best to write Fortran in Lisp first, so you can learn how basically awful it is, and at the same time pick up small idioms that are a better launchpad in to writing Better Lisp() 19:35:57 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:36:09 drewc: nice advice, what I tend to do the empty brain beginning 19:36:18 see, I found the exact opposite ... but meh, I am different in a lot of ways. 19:36:39 empty brain takes too long. *I* find it hard to learn things with no context. 19:36:50 and my programming history is my context 19:37:25 whartung: true it takes long, that's why I do it on my spare time 19:37:43 I don't see how one can know how to write in the proper style of something before having written a lot in it. So you're going to have to end up writing in some other style at first. 19:37:44 I couldn't make the leap to lisp until I found a scheme book that didn't use the standard vocabulary (notably lambda, which befuddled me to no end in the beginning cognitively) 19:37:56 avoiding the pressure helps me to get to know more things 19:38:12 *drewc* still programs in machine code for a non-existent machine ... TAOCP after all 19:38:29 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:38:33 Shinmera: there's always the learn X the hard way mentality (if you're not familiar, basically type in a whole bunch of existing idiomatic code, then make changes to it) 19:38:48 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 19:38:58 jasom: I don't feel like that actually teaches you the style of anything at all. It teaches you patterns, but not the style. 19:39:58 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:38 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslc-082-083-022-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:40:49 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:02 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:41:11 well what I know about programming is kind of learning languages 19:41:24 Shinmera: I am a musician as well ... and if you do not know the patterns, I do not care what style you play in ... patterns are formed into 'songs' or 'programs' ... and knowing both pattern and style is quite important. 19:41:32 first you need one language to know your way 19:41:53 then you start learning other languages with comparisons, then you grow and control the idioms 19:42:01 then you enter the path of mastering it 19:42:22 first time I heard about lambda I got "scared" I didn't understand that 19:42:38 but turns out I've being using it in my perl coding 19:43:05 drewc: Of course. But while using sheet music teaches you well how to listen to the proper sounds and how to form melodies and play stuff that sounds good, it only does a very bad job at helping you write your own music or doing freestyle playing. 19:43:53 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:44:07 drewc: I'm not declining the use of reading code and going by examples at first, don't get me wrong! I'm just saying there's nothing wrong at all with just writing code and not worrying about getting it to the style of something at first. It'll resolve itself well enough over time and you'll also get to understand why it should look that way than going by example and just hoping it's right. 19:44:36 jmolinaso: I'm not familiar with perl much. Do anonymous functions in perl close over the lexical environment? 19:45:14 wauw jasom I just understood half of it 19:46:17 jmolinaso: answered my own question 19:46:31 Shinmera: sheet music is not how I learned patterns at all. I used my ear... I am a songwriter and a 'freestyle' player of instruments yet do not use or write sheet music 'til the pattern is 'done'. Same thing with code ... I read code, then read the documentation and the books about the language. Again, I am likely different than most, so grain of salt, yadda yadda yadda. 19:46:40 what I understood is that lambdas are similar to sub {} in perl 19:46:41 jmolinaso: sub foo { my ($n) = @_; sub {$n += shift} } 19:47:37 jmolinaso: see now the inner sub can access variables from the outer? That's what I was asking if perl could do. 19:47:47 then you can also do something like sub {my ($one) = @_; print $one;}; when you work with events 19:48:06 a ok 19:48:06 hm, I'm having a problem with swank-js 19:48:11 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 19:48:33 that's actually a nice exercise 19:48:40 zfx [~zfx@host86-134-175-102.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:47 oh, wrong channel 19:48:49 jasom: I'll search on that 19:49:36 jmolinaso: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_programming) and I stole that perl example from http://paulgraham.com/accgen.html (That's how I answered my question, I remembered that someone had already written that in a whole bunch of languages) 19:50:39 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:27 jasom: I see a long path ahead of me before enlightment 19:51:31 :) 19:51:50 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:51 jasom: do you have github account? 19:53:03 jmolinaso: I do, but I would say my lisp is very non-idiomatic 19:53:09 *jasom* comes from a C background 19:53:21 no problem 19:53:22 jmolinaso: jasom is my account though, FWIW 19:53:31 mine is jmolinaso 19:53:33 easy 19:54:04 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:07 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 19:54:50 actually the only open-source project I do significant dev on that anybody uses is in C 19:55:28 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:55:29 -!- dan64 [~dan64@107.170.238.198] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:55:34 well, that's more than me 19:55:53 I try to get to help on some open source projects 19:56:05 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:06 but I find difficult to engage for a long run 19:56:11 easiest way is to just fix bugs you run into 19:56:17 yep 19:56:23 that's what I'm focusing now 19:56:32 I got into el-get 19:56:44 and just spend some time in the sources 19:56:57 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:57:10 and know I've being learning elasticsearch for the server I have home 19:57:23 the idea I have is to run lisp on freenas 19:57:36 and eventually make a nice plugin 19:57:40 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients] 19:57:46 or even just report bugs at first / do code review and ask about what you can find 19:58:05 gah, I need to push out my changes to plush. The one on github doesn't even have alias expansion 19:58:06 found it very powerful environment for open source projects 19:58:52 being sysadmin as long experience (just 4 years as a developer, and I'm afraid not a very good place) 19:58:59 now 19:59:08 that's why I'm starting that on my own 19:59:11 drewc: you still running common-lisp.net? 19:59:49 jasom: apparently so 19:59:49 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:59 you don't know? 20:00:38 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:15 whartung: well, the one server I have is not going to be all of cl-net ... and I have given the domain names to another organisation, so what is meant by "common-lisp.net" exactly? 20:01:35 yea, dunno 20:01:35 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@e179047206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:39 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:01:44 anyone using mocl? 20:02:07 jasom drewc whartung and the rest, nice chat, I'm sure come back often, now I need to get some sleep! thanks for the info! 20:02:17 nn jmolinaso 20:02:18 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.181.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:02:22 whartung: yeah, I do not know 20:02:34 jmolinaso: cheers! 20:03:06 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:07 drewc: any chance you could find out if peter herth is actually on the ltk-user mailing list? When I e-mail him directly about LTK he responded promptly, but when I moved the conversation over to the mailing-list (per his request) he stopped responding 20:04:07 I was wondering if he got dropped in the migration to the new mail system 20:04:25 sirdancealo2 [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 20:04:35 jasom: yup ... I can do that. 20:04:41 (hold) 20:04:58 nipra [~nipra@122.177.181.10] has joined #lisp 20:06:15 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has joined #lisp 20:06:42 *jaimef* wanders off to drop $200 on mocl 20:06:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:06:51 -!- splittist [uid17737@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nuekxvkaebmbjhfp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:08:21 -!- rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has quit [] 20:08:24 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:41 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 20:10:55 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:10:55 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:45 akbiggs [~akbiggs@user3-205-6.wireless.utoronto.ca] has joined #lisp 20:12:50 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:13:53 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 20:14:15 jaimef: there was this discussion about it on comp.lang.lisp last year. Sorry for using groups and URL shortenning http://goo.gl/BVVMdO 20:15:24 nicdev: thanks 20:15:48 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:24 mocl is clicc based? 20:16:47 jasom: I think that's what rainer joswig has said 20:16:52 I don't know if that's official info 20:16:54 mhd [~mhd@234.sub-70-192-0.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:30 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:40 Alfr [~Unknown@e179047206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:58 Can anyone confirm for me that executing/compiling the following in CCL crashes it: (defmethod print-object (a b)) 20:18:40 jasom: yup, subscribed. 20:18:40 Shinmera: not entirely unlikely to cause problems. 20:18:41 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:2dcd:dc0b:3a89:752] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:53 H4ns: Yeah, but I wouldn't expect a complete crash 20:19:13 Shinmera: error in process filter: net-read error: (cl-assertion-failed (plusp length)) 20:19:13 20:19:14 Shinmera: it does not crash for me. 20:19:26 Shinmera: (in the bare repl) 20:19:30 H4ns: when compiling, it throws me into the kernel debugger with an unrecoverable stack. On the REPL it just closes the connection. 20:19:43 Why wouldn't you expect a complete crash? 20:20:11 SBCL seems to handle it gracefully 20:20:19 Or at least continues to run just fine 20:20:36 That's an interesting bit of information, but I'm still wondering about your expectations. 20:20:42 Is it "because SBCL doesn't crash"? 20:20:54 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@static-71-251-230-114.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:21:12 I wasn't expecting anything really. I stumbled upon it today while trying to compile my program on CCL that had this faulty bit in it and I was a bit baffled to be greeted with a kernel debugger. 20:21:37 is the premise that this crashes because you just yanked the rug from underneath the REPL by murdering print-object? 20:21:37 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.181.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:25 I could imagine that because it's used so heavily, print-object might do all sorts of tricks that rely on the constraints of 11.1.2.1.2 20:22:56 whartung: Well the kernel debugger just says it crashed due to an unrecoverable stack overflow, so I'm guessing it goes into an infinite recursion somewhere. 20:23:09 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:23:22 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:25 right, but that's because print-object is so intrinsic, that's what I'm getting at, right? 20:23:43 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:24:04 Probably. 20:24:22 "the results are undefined" 20:24:30 not because it's expected that compiling an empty method would be hazardous. 20:24:40 print-object is not "intrinsic", but used by the lisp runtime in a lot of places 20:25:03 while the runtime could be trying to cope with all sorts of nonsensical methods, it can as well crash 20:25:11 si 20:25:55 oslvbo [~oslvbo@125.76.76.120] has joined #lisp 20:28:26 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:35 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 20:33:34 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-134-175-102.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:33:34 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 20:34:22 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:34:59 drewc: thanks 20:36:47 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:38:27 -!- bicyclette [~deglingo@ALille-257-1-139-181.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:37 well it's paid for now :P 20:39:42 wish lispworks was affordable 20:40:13 I don't recall LW being particularly expensive 20:40:25 $1600 is not cheap imho :P 20:41:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:18 You get a lot for $1600 20:42:15 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:31 it's a lot better than Allegro's deal 20:42:40 though Allegro has excellent libraries and support 20:42:51 -!- ggole [~ggole@58-7-109-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:43:03 Q: How much does Allegro cost? A: How much ya got? 20:43:03 anyway, if you're looking at a business, $1600 is chump change 20:43:13 excellent support. 20:43:22 clearly not business 20:43:25 i've been saying that again and again. i have stopped. 20:43:40 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:54 hm. well, by reputation. once. 20:43:58 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:15 compiler+ide+1 year maintenance for $1700 is a great deal IMO 20:44:25 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:44:48 yeah. franz fanboys say that. but in the world of open source, excellent support is always inferior to being able to look up what's wrong. 20:46:45 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 20:47:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:09 Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:22 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 20:50:24 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:05 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-127.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:35 -!- oslvbo [~oslvbo@125.76.76.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:03 oslvbo [~oslvbo@50.93.204.205] has joined #lisp 20:54:06 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:09 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 20:55:27 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:55:31 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:58:23 *jaimef* immediately regrets paying for mocl 21:01:18 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:486e:a8a9:a033:ec4f] has joined #lisp 21:01:21 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:50 their support number is someone's cell 21:03:04 somewhat better than no support number 21:03:31 jaimef: what's bad about a cellphone number? 21:03:51 as long as the person answering is competent, where is the problem? 21:03:52 jaimef: it seemed clear to me that they are a single-digit person shop 21:04:01 because the answer is "Hello, who is this?" 21:04:13 "umm... you got paid for a product" 21:04:18 "oh, yeah right, " 21:04:20 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:04:24 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:34 21:04:40 will blog my mocl fun 21:04:44 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:05:01 jaimef: offtopic, but interesting. did you get help by that person at all? 21:05:18 yes 21:05:18 zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has joined #lisp 21:05:23 but horrible reception 21:05:33 so most of it was "no we do not have a repl on android" 21:05:36 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:44 but I want to promote it 21:05:49 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@static-71-251-230-114.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:58 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@AAubervilliers-551-1-214-49.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:48 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:25 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:11:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:11:30 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.253] has joined #lisp 21:12:41 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:32 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 21:17:23 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 21:19:13 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:19 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@AAubervilliers-551-1-213-159.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:22:01 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:22:14 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 21:24:07 telstar [~telstar@fsf/member/telstar] has joined #lisp 21:25:22 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:25:36 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:27:03 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 21:27:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:16 francogrex [~user@240.123-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:30:31 zfx [~zfx@host86-134-175-102.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:06 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2.106.141.211] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 21:32:52 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:33:24 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:05 Shinmera: r. your wild and crazy redefining of print-object. no it doesn't kill ccl. http://paste.lisp.org/display/141407 but the result is only amusing to a few, and it certainly causes slime/swank to become so confused that misery follows. 21:35:46 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:47 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has left #lisp 21:36:09 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 21:36:12 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:14 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has left #lisp 21:36:25 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 oslvbo_ [~oslvbo@125.76.76.120] has joined #lisp 21:37:37 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:38:00 -!- oslvbo [~oslvbo@50.93.204.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:12 bhyde: interesting. It must be some slime/swank interaction that causes the subsequent crash then 21:39:47 Shinmera: it doesn't crash in my emacs. the repl buffers are useless, but the *inferior-lisp* limps along 21:40:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:08 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-134-175-102.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:42:00 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:04 (defmethod print-object :before (...) (collect-outputted-junk )) can actually be useful 21:43:10 bhyde: http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/screenshot-2014.02.27-224147.png this happens on my end and then nothing budges anymore. 21:43:21 let's just say to be careful with print-object, you may be meddling with dark forces... 21:43:26 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-7-197-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:13 -!- rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:44:14 -!- aeth_ is now known as aeth 21:45:11 -!- mhd [~mhd@234.sub-70-192-0.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 21:45:39 Shinmera: only line 18 is due to this, lines 15..17 are a long standing itch in slime/swank 21:46:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:29 -!- effy [~x@114.246.80.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:38 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.60.225] has joined #lisp 21:47:03 Shinmera: presumably if i tried to do more in my repl or else were i'd also lose the swank connection. but can what happens if you interact with the *inferior-lisp* buffer? 21:47:38 whartung speaks the truth, by the way :) 21:48:19 bhyde: I can't interact with the inferior-lisp at all, only kill it 21:48:30 effy [~x@114.246.80.215] has joined #lisp 21:48:44 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:03 bhyde: and yes, it was an ugly buggy line that tripped me up on this and I only didn't notice it because SBCL was being too nice. 21:49:05 Shinmera: shrug  i guess i'm blessed then 21:49:53 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:01 I was trying to distill the kernel debugger crash scenario again, but it doesn't seem as simple as I would've liked. 21:50:20 Ah well. 21:50:24 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:50:24 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p54A74088.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:31 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:51:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:25 -!- oslvbo_ [~oslvbo@125.76.76.120] has quit [] 21:52:37 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:54:12 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:07 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:12 oslvbo [~oslvbo@125.76.76.120] has joined #lisp 21:57:33 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 21:57:44 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:59 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:57 milosn_ [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 21:59:02 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:01:00 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:02:01 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:03:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:53 Agatha25 [~Agatha25@37.221.175.38] has joined #lisp 22:03:55 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Agatha25@37.221.175.* 22:03:55 -!- Agatha25 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Peddling pr0n is... prohibited) 22:03:59 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:04:54 and here I thought the idiots ran out of money 22:05:06 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:49 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.116.117] has joined #lisp 22:05:54 -!- seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-bspouirhgartxmse] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:06:49 -!- waa [~waa@189.11.95.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:32 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:38 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:56 -!- p_l has set mode -b *!*Agatha25@37.221.175.* 22:09:47 askatasu1 [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 22:10:44 -!- francogrex [~user@240.123-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:57 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:11:27 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@user3-205-6.wireless.utoronto.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:12:05 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:12:09 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 22:14:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@118.70-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:28 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:16:29 -!- effy [~x@114.246.80.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:17:27 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 22:17:46 Oh my gosh, what's happened to slashdot? 22:18:19 Corporate redesign 22:18:19 effy [~x@114.246.80.215] has joined #lisp 22:18:25 were chosen for the "beta"? 22:18:35 *you 22:18:55 whartung: not sure, it just redirects me to beta. subdomain. 22:18:56 Did you miss the announcement a couple weeks ago? and the following uproar... 22:19:07 yea, you got "A/B tested" on to the beta 22:19:19 Crap. 22:19:34 there's a way to gets rid of it, forget the details 22:19:35 But I don't even have account, how's that possible? 22:19:42 cookies yo 22:20:00 I don't store them. 22:20:01 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:11 And I don't store cache. 22:20:14 Nothing. 22:20:29 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 22:20:36 then you may not have the "fuck beta" cookie 22:21:02 Weird. 22:21:10 Well, it looks horrible. 22:21:11 yea, that whole time was hilarious 22:21:44 when they pulled this, pretty much all of the rated comments were "fuck beta" on every story, complete non-sequitors to the story itself -- it was pretty funny 22:22:07 there is a "revolt" site called http://soylentnews.com 22:22:17 for those looking for "the same thing only different" 22:22:26 and "participating in the slashcott" 22:22:39 Huh. 22:23:02 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:23:51 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:07 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:26:52 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 22:27:41 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:00 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:31:53 -!- uzo [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:01 -!- oslvbo [~oslvbo@125.76.76.120] has quit [] 22:34:54 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:34:58 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:24 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:40:24 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:54 -!- zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:59 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:04 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:00 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@static-71-251-230-114.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:43:21 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 22:44:10 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:44:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:01 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:47 Isabella18 [~Isabella1@37.221.175.38] has joined #lisp 22:47:49 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Isabella1@37.221.175.* 22:47:49 -!- Isabella18 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Peddling pr0n is... prohibited) 22:48:02 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:49 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:50:06 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:50:07 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:51:22 normanrichards [~textual@107.107.186.27] has joined #lisp 22:52:56 -!- p_l has set mode -b *!*Isabella1@37.221.175.* 22:54:00 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:56:31 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:57:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:44 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:50 waa [~waa@189-11-95-111.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:00:39 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-184-9-184.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:29 -!- crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:05 -!- normanrichards [~textual@107.107.186.27] has quit [] 23:03:36 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 23:03:52 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@217.9.101.140] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 23:03:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:58 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:57 -!- WeirdEnthusiast [Elite6963@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-pkqarcebrdaiiuvx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:43 killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:15:15 akbiggs [~akbiggs@user3-205-6.wireless.utoronto.ca] has joined #lisp 23:15:23 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:15:31 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.31] has joined #lisp 23:16:55 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:18:43 Grrr. Any abcl expert around? 23:19:02 abcl insists in verbosely displaying redefinition warnings, even when I'm trying to hush it. 23:19:48 rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has joined #lisp 23:20:19 -!- rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:44 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Changing host] 23:24:45 killmaster [~killmaste@unaffiliated/killmaster/x-109233] has joined #lisp 23:28:19 Fade: #abcl ? 23:28:46 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:04 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:29:21 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 23:33:12 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:30 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds]