02:20:59 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:59 02:20:59 -!- names: ccl-logbot normanrichards gadmyth brutal_lobster Sean-Der nydel mtd ZombieChicken frkout_ vkrest davazp WarWeasle oleo atgreen dmiles wilfredh gabot scharan_ mksan tomaw fnordbert Munksgaard z0d kbc_ cmbntr_ 8OWAAACR7 joga clop eMBee setheus aerique ``Erik flip214 fmu quasisane pok abbe jsnell akersof Yamazaki-kun Neptu_ tkd epsylon [SLB] acieroid White_Flame eagleflo luis guaqua Foxboron arbscht daimrod quackv4 ft Khisanth sjl kanru schoppenhauer antoszka 02:20:59 -!- names: galdor_ ec yano felideon optikalmouse emma BlastHardcheese housel cods K1rk_ oGMo Subfusc sytse Petit_Dejeuner__ specbot anunnaki_ aftershave_ felipe iwilcox naryl karswell ered AntiSpamMeta bocaneri ski nightfly pjb jackdaniel rk[lies]_ net4all igorw andares asedeno MightyJoe jiacobucci1 djinni` j0ni peccu2 PuercoPop theBlackDragon EvW dRbiG cjwelborn_ mal__ WeirdEnthusiast froggey justinmcp_ rtoym tali713 karupanerura cibs nightshade427 mood Tristam 02:20:59 -!- names: marsam aeth Xach ezakimak saarin ramus phadthai ozzloy johs Codynyx Natch Praise ianmcorvidae rdd kbtr mindCrime__ sauerkrause p_l|backup _schulte_ dim __main__ clog jdoles SHODAN kirin` tvaalen brucem zarul hpd smull aoh __class__ musicalchair farhaven cory786 enn jasom JPeterson yeltzooo zmyrgel1 _5kg Kabaka_ Odin- vert2 spacefrogg freiksenet wormphlegm rvncerr sigjuice redline6561_ j_king_ tensorpudding mathrick tessier H4ns cyphase zbigniew yroeht2 02:20:59 -!- names: dfox loke ineiros ThePhoeron joast milosn andyo sfa zxq9 nuba nicdev jaimef Nshag eak TristamWrk cdidd Vivitron tychoish faheem finnrobi Ober seangrove Phreak Fade Anarch minion kpreid ivan robot-be` ivan\ fikusz_ foom vhost- gluegadget BaconOverflow___ drdo scoofy davorb fe[nl]ix Blkt zymurgy adsisco nisstyre @p_l bjorkintosh hzp lupine Adeon TDog__ rvchangue AeroNotix gensym cmpitg bobbysmith007 ggherdov Kruppe hypno_ oconnore Zag clop2 RiskyBlit 02:20:59 -!- names: eigenlicht prxq Guest21262 killmaster Vutral copec spacebat bicyclette cross |3b| billstclair Zhivago Adlai DrCode dlowe bjz Poenikatu xristos jonh kliph QwertyDragon bgs100 loke_erc easye Fullma KCL fridim_ otwieracz ecraven InvalidCo sbryant ConstantineXVI sshirokov ktx m00n dan64 gko sellout- MrWoohoo araujo Sgeo xan_ nug700 Patzy q3k peterhil Borbus_ DrForr_ ircbrowse joshe gigetoo heddwch Krystof axion Bike pchrist yrk Oddity segmond alexherbo2 02:20:59 -!- names: pillton jayne cpt_nemo DataLinkDroid urandom__ r0b2 GuilOooo jack_rabbit BlackWabi woodboy4_ zRecursive genericus ASau cheryllium slyrus hwaldstein1997_ Mandus cpc26 Kromitvs wgreenhouse ikki Guest79758 juanlas hiyosi mogglebam Ethan- KaiQ zacharias drewc drmeister theos victor_lowther_ alezost antonv nitro_idiot_ _death Tordek Posterdati qsun 02:24:02 a random girl? 02:24:16 with girl name + number nick 02:24:24 ^ 02:24:38 like ... bjork :-/ 02:24:49 1nt0sh? :D 02:24:52 bjork18 02:26:13 On #bitcoin we'd probably just ban the range and +e any false positives. 02:26:42 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 02:27:01 they're not occurring in a range 02:27:02 Three large Serbian ISPs are banned owing to one persistent Serbian scammer, although we've not had a single complaint. 02:27:35 it's likely a botnet is being used, with hosts all over the internet 02:27:39 Really? "Rachel21 95.141.20.196" was in the 95.141.*.* again, is all. 02:27:54 iwilcox: as I said, it's fun to think about banning the tank city. I am not going to, not when it won't really stop a bot that at least once talked to us from NOC of a completely different ISP 02:28:17 I'll first switch to +r 02:28:24 I think hitting name+number is pretty good for now 02:29:00 dlowe: I have the code for checking the name+two digits, will have it updated for further checking mode and hostmask, just need to write all the boilerplate of handling IRC etc. 02:29:08 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A0095.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:29:15 p_l: look at writing an orcabot module 02:29:36 p_l: http://github.com/dlowe-net/orcabot 02:29:43 dlowe: haven't seen that one 02:30:03 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:30:08 p_l: orcabot can handle a lot of the irc details 02:30:21 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:34 p_l: I wrote it at my job and subsequently open-sourced 02:31:38 it's probably one of the most full-featured irc bots out there 02:31:43 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-xllyhgvvhbsoltti] has joined #lisp 02:32:08 niko, a staffer on #freenode, has been really good with his supybot-based channel helper called piqure. It can do among other things "onmsg action" so could already do what you want. If you can cope with a bot in Python in a Lisp channel ;) 02:33:21 iwilcox: for public messages I already have an autokicker 02:33:33 huh. is there no irc library in CL? 02:33:41 presumably it could do onjoin too 02:33:47 as part of a net or something library? 02:33:50 bjorkintosh: sure there is. cl-irc 02:33:54 bjorkintosh: there is. It's just that there's a significant difference between "protocol library" and "irc bot" 02:34:00 guardianx [guardian@dsl-58-7-43-186.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:34:28 -!- cory786 [~cory@75.22.101.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:40:12 Hmm. Turns out your Rachel21 is one of our #bitcoin idiots. 02:40:49 http://otcdb.us.to/otc/?*95.141.20.196*&tz=0 02:42:09 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@AAubervilliers-551-1-215-112.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 02:43:24 iwilcox: read: "someone paid (by bitcoin) for the same botnet" 02:43:48 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6664b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:44:01 Maybe, but habadabadsuba has been around on the channel for a little while. 02:44:17 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9FBE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:20 there's always the possibility of facing a NAT 02:46:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6bc39.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:57 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 02:47:20 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 02:49:47 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:50:45 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 02:51:09 The question is -- can it pre-empt? :) 02:51:18 -!- Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 02:51:18 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 02:52:55 -!- antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:55:50 Zhivago: pre-empt as in kicking immediately on join? 02:56:31 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:05 Ideally prior to that. :) 02:57:22 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 02:59:19 -!- gadmyth [~user@117.144.166.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:09 Zhivago: unfortunately, no Space Navigator Guild crew were available for the job 03:01:36 I feel this is going to be brain dead simple, but I can't figure out cl-who's transformation rules in regards to variables 03:01:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 03:01:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 03:01:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:01:44 -!- sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:38b4:cc18:1ecc:fdcb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:55 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:02:20 (let ((foo '(:a "testing")) (with-html-output (*stdout*) foo)) 03:02:52 If you could identify them when they join irc ... 03:02:58 therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has joined #lisp 03:03:06 I guess I don't really understand how #'htm works 03:03:57 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:04:06 Zhivago: that's doable for sysops, not us. And at that point we could have just requested a filter that auto kicks everyone with certain message, before said message is passed to others 03:04:26 the ~T bans someone mentioned from another network 03:06:30 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:41 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:55 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:10 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:08:17 sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:38b4:cc18:1ecc:fdcb] has joined #lisp 03:08:33 is there an infestation of in #lisp? 03:10:39 *WarWeasle* is tempted to change his nick to bambi-669 03:11:15 bjorkintosh: and not only on #lisp. Apparently #erlang as well 03:11:31 weird. 03:11:33 http://codepad.org/tbBXCcso 03:13:33 bleh, it's 3 o'clock now. Thanks to writing an ircbot :> 03:13:53 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:14:04 which is ircbot ? 03:14:05 p_l: Nonsense, it's only 10:30 03:14:15 ish. 03:14:20 habadabadsuba first joined #bitcoin 2014-01-29; my_videos69 started 2014-01-27. 03:14:21 WarWeasle: I'm in UTC, the one true timezone 03:14:22 15 03:14:40 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 03:14:41 everything else is just an offset 03:14:41 p_l: That's one mean time zone. 03:14:53 utc. sounds ... not english. 03:14:55 -!- guardianx is now known as guardianQQ 03:15:09 Freenode runs on Freenode Standard Time anyway. It's morning when you join and evening when you leave :) 03:15:17 shouldn't it be CUT? to match GMT? 03:15:38 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 03:15:42 with that, my urge to be productive is gone. Goodnight. 03:15:47 lol 03:15:56 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 03:16:02 Yeah, I think UTC is a compromise halfway between French and English. 03:16:28 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 bjorkintosh: english words with french order 03:16:43 Universal Time, Coordinated 03:16:55 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 03:16:56 haha neat 03:17:44 genial! 03:17:45 (the french version probably sounds neater) 03:17:58 there was a lispbot madfe by tetron 03:18:12 (re he irc bot) 03:18:21 ASau` [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:18:27 SI can be read as "System, International" as well, afaik (But of course, it's Systemé Internationalé, if I got my accents right) 03:20:46 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:20:49 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 03:20:58 i just asked him if he still has the src.. it I belive was alllisp and not an eggdrop that called eval 03:21:05 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.189] has joined #lisp 03:21:19 syste'm international d'unite's. 03:21:25 or somefink. 03:22:19 No worse than "surgeon general". :) 03:23:44 SI is nice, though 03:23:51 *p_l* got "lack of metric units" as one of the stated reasons why he doesn't want to live in USA ;) 03:24:14 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:47 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 03:24:47 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:28 it's really not that bad at all. 03:26:31 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:47 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV (core dumped)] 03:27:08 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:10 you just have to think "no metric, lands on moon anyway" 03:27:13 bjorkintosh: it's the minor reason. there's a bunch of bigger ones. And I think the only thing I can put in "positive" part is "flying is cheaper" 03:27:20 "metric? ariane 5. nuff said". 03:27:53 bjorkintosh: that's very... myopic view. Everyone had "fun" cases. 03:27:59 :D 03:28:00 Going to the moon in imperial isn't impossible, but then I imagine it wasn't much fun to code for either. 03:28:28 iwilcox: easier to code something like that with imperial units than use them on everyday basis, actually 03:28:34 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:48 because you just pick one unit, not any of its multiplies etc. and calculate in that unit/scale 03:28:59 We still use plenty of imperial here in the UK; s'not like avoiding the US is gonna let you stay clear of it :) 03:29:18 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:22 iwilcox: But at least outside of roads there's dual signage (imperial/metric) 03:29:34 helped me stay sane last 6 years 03:29:47 Makes me grind my teeth every time a ruler is imperial on the edge I want metric for, BOTH ways up. 03:29:47 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:31:12 In Singapore, everything it metric with some _very_ annoying exceptions. The main one being house sizes being measured in goddamn square feets 03:31:55 And recipies are often imported from the US, which means they talk about cups and ounces and I always have to go to google to get the amountss right 03:32:27 hahah. that's kinda funny. sq ft? 03:32:31 interesting. 03:32:59 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 03:33:03 loke: best thing to do is to buy a set of measuring cups 03:33:13 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 03:33:22 though ounces will still be annoying 03:33:24 Yep. Look at this: http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/15731919/for-sale-below-valuation-horizon-tower 03:33:28 (typical apartment) 03:33:46 Oh wait a second. This site has sqm as an alternative now!? 03:33:53 Wtf. That must be new. Never saw that before. 03:34:06 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 03:34:13 at least it has the size. Last time I checked rent.ie, there was none :> 03:34:18 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 03:34:26 nice. with air con? 03:35:22 Well, the sizes here can be a bit fuzzy. They include everything, including balconys inaxccessible areas. Back in Sweden it was much more controlled (for example, you can only count floor space where the headroom is at least a certain height 03:35:37 bjorkintosh: All apartments have aircons 03:35:56 Houses may be sold without them, but that would be the first thing you install. 03:36:01 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 03:37:09 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:42 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 03:40:48 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:04 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 03:45:12 -!- joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has quit [] 03:45:36 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:47:31 joshe [~joshe@onyx.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 03:48:03 btw, what is the current place to send cl-irc patches to? 03:48:09 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:49:18 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:52:06 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:58:59 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 04:04:35 Daniella23 [~Daniella2@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 04:04:38 You can find funny videos here. http://bit.do/my_videos69 04:04:38 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Daniella2@95.141.20.* 04:04:38 -!- Daniella23 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Peddling pr0n is... prohibited) 04:07:12 the autokicker works ;) 04:07:29 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:08:25 -!- p_l has set mode -b *!*Daniella2@95.141.20.* 04:08:38 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*@95.141.20.* 04:08:52 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:09 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 04:11:01 -!- guardianQQ [guardian@dsl-58-7-43-186.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:03 ... I think our banlist needs some spring cleaning 04:11:04 p_l: nice :) 04:12:22 DataLinkDroid: now, if only my earlier try at automating irssi to check for joins worked... 04:13:05 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 04:13:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:14:22 p_l: would be nice if IRC supported filter plugins, so we could kick and ban before the channel even sees anything... 04:14:51 i think some ircds do 04:15:20 i was surprised to find out charybdis lets you ban people who are in a given channel 04:15:32 yeah, i guess it's an implementation thing 04:16:49 Well, if 'works' means 'doesn't stop the spam message'. :) 04:17:07 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:20 Zhivago: the part that works wasn't supposed to stop it. The part that was supposed to stop it still doesn't work. 04:19:14 mxl_ [mxl_@s83-179-40-30.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 04:19:21 Is it possible to ask a question about the macro/function difference here? 04:19:30 yes 04:19:31 mxl_ yes 04:19:41 -!- cmpitg [~184467440@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:19:48 A macro takes its arguments without evaluating them and inserts them into a code template which it returns. Is it possible to achieve the same effect with a function, if we prevent the arguments from evaluating by quoting them: 04:19:52 (myfunction 'arg1 'arg2) 04:19:57 And then picking them apart inside myfunction and using eval when necessary? 04:20:17 so who's behind the bots? 04:20:40 I suggest thinking of a macro as being a little compiler. 04:20:45 mxl_: no, because macroexpansion happens at read-time, and functions happen at execution-time 04:21:00 It takes some source in the language of LISP + that macro, and produces source in the language of LISP - that macro. 04:21:14 A function actually does something. 04:21:15 mxl_: but there is nothing stopping a macro from calling a function which returns a form 04:21:29 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:33 macro expansion happens at macro expansion time, no? 04:21:38 er 04:21:42 DataLinkDroid: yeah 04:21:42 You can write a function call that is equivalent to the source in the language of LISP - that macro. (Which is what that macro should probably produce) 04:21:51 In that regard, all macros are unnecessary. 04:22:08 But macros and function calls do fundamentally different tasks. 04:22:16 Hm 04:22:37 I wrote this function (this is Clojure, sorry, but I think very similar to lisp) 04:22:41 (defn reverse [codeform1 codeform2] (do (eval codeform1) (eval codeform2))) 04:22:58 cem__ [3a443433@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.68.52.51] has joined #lisp 04:23:12 Instead of (eval codeform) you should probably have (funcall function), or whatever is equivalent. 04:23:19 And pass in a compiled function for it to call. 04:23:28 e.g., (lambda () ...) 04:24:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 04:24:05 bjorkintosh: My $0.02 is on it being a German guy from #bitcoin. 04:24:14 It reverses the codeforms as I'd like 04:24:55 Then I went on to try and make a function that takes a binding 04:25:03 cmpitg [~184467440@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 04:25:36 And call it like (myfunction '(...binding...) '(...commands...)) 04:26:20 -!- therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:26:37 And then inside myfunction use let on the raw bindingform to create the binding 04:27:25 If your point is that you can write a function that compiles from LISP + to LISP -, then that's also true. 04:27:49 But compiler didn't like it 04:27:50 "Unsupported binding form" 04:27:52 But you need something to invoke that function. 04:28:06 Probably your technical questions about clojure can't be answered here. 04:28:27 Uh no, I'm fairly new to all this, sorry if I'm not making any sense 04:28:37 Clojure channel had no activity 04:28:45 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 04:29:59 lisp++ 04:30:52 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-14-172.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:31:05 Good morning everyone! 04:31:29 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.188.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:46 mxl_: Right. But if you have a C++ question and the C++ channel has no activity, would you jump into the Ruby channel? 04:35:04 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.193.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:35:43 Well, I wasn't certain my question was that language specific 04:35:57 Clojure is a Lisp 04:36:08 Well, until you started talking about clojure specific stuff, it wasn't. :) 04:36:19 Ok :) 04:37:30 mxl_: Give #clojure another try. It's active enough. 04:39:26 Ok. 04:39:37 One question though - Any book on macros, in general or Lisp-specific? I haven't been able to find a comprehensive tutorial in Clojure books. 04:39:48 *good book 04:39:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:02 mxl_: On Lisp is almost exclusively about macros. 04:40:20 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.197.185] has joined #lisp 04:40:43 "On Lisp" by Paul Graham? 04:40:46 mxl_: It used to be available online as a PDF file. Don't know if that is still the case. 04:40:50 mxl_: Yes. 04:41:10 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17031815/cl-who-using-a-variable-in-with-html-output-to-string 04:41:19 can anyone else confirm if the accepted answer works? 04:41:32 beach: I see, I'll have a look. 04:42:09 I am just getting the sexps back as a string "(HTML (HEAD (TITLE hello)) (BODY (DIV world)))" 04:43:03 -!- mxl_ [mxl_@s83-179-40-30.cust.tele2.se] has left #lisp 04:49:03 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:49:10 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 04:49:40 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:52:21 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.212.71] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 04:53:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:55:32 ok, email to google recruiter sent, time to go to sleep... or rather try -_- 04:55:50 'night p_l 04:57:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:57:52 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:18 oh, and autokickban is on for the bit.do link 04:58:29 afk 05:00:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:01:20 therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has joined #lisp 05:01:27 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:04:02 spintronic [jovan@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:35 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 05:06:15 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-206-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:33 alezost [~user@128-70-206-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:08:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09:47 p_l: you reply to those? heh 05:10:07 ggole [~ggole@124-148-89-226.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:10:27 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ConstantineXVI sshirokov ktx m00n dan64 gko xan_ Patzy q3k peterhil Borbus_ DrForr ircbrowse axion Oddity pillton cpt_nemo hwaldstein1997_ Mandus cpc26 wgreenhouse mksan scharan_ gabot wilfredh dmiles ZombieChicken nydel alexherbo2 sellout- kanru 15:48:47 -!- names: joshe Mon_Ouie cmpitg angavrilov ggole _5kg_ ``Erik_ benny mcsontos mishoo newcup nand1 xificurC impulse Codynyx_ prxq aluuu nitro_idiot 15:48:47 -sendak.freenode.net:#lisp- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 15:48:59 -!- woodboy456 [~woodboy45@host26-53-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 15:51:44 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:50 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:54:01 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-obfacohewncdtchk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:22 -!- jordonbiondo [~user@70.88.108.205] has 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[~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:33:37 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:52 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:38:03 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:00 -!- zymurgy [~zymurgy@li607-220.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 16:39:21 zymurgy [~zymurgy@li607-220.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:44:45 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ulvrqnthaznbtguj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:50 Hello. 16:46:22 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:07 -!- joga [OI72Ymdg@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 16:48:07 joga [OI72Ymdg@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 16:50:29 What's the current state of babel? When trying to load github/master, I get errors http://paste.lisp.org/display/141349 16:56:06 -!- jordonbiondo [~user@50-77-199-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 16:56:06 -!- hugod [~user@69.157.171.126] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 16:56:06 -!- easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 16:56:40 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 16:56:51 jamesf__ [~jamesf@jef.me.uk] has joined #lisp 16:56:59 easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has joined #lisp 16:58:52 Bike__ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:58:58 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:52 Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:04 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:00:04 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:00:04 -!- jamesf [~jamesf@jef.me.uk] 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It even use a vfs IIRC, to give access to CL stuff. 18:22:30 Adlai` [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:22:44 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:22:45 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 18:23:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.106.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:27 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:29 -!- Bike__ is now known as Bike 18:24:36 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:24:37 v0|d [~user@static-40-37-68-212.sadecehosting.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:07 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:22 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 18:30:37 eee-blt [~nb0yjxtr@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 18:31:08 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 18:38:25 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@166-208.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:25 -!- jamesf__ [~jamesf@jef.me.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:18 InvalidC1 [~invalidco@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-54f824-20.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:40:51 gmcastil [~user@71-212-235-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:51 m1ngus_ [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 18:41:23 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:41:23 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-165-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:41:23 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:42:02 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@2a01:4f8:150:80a1::aaaa] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:42:13 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:42:19 khisanth_ [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:43:02 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:43:02 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:43:09 -!- saarin [~saarin@effic.me] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:43:10 -!- therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:43:14 tajjada [~tajjada@197.179.4.17] has joined #lisp 18:43:39 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:59 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 Guys, if I have a utility which I would like to see in Alexandria, is this the right place to discuss that? 18:44:11 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:22 jdz_ [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 18:44:26 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 18:44:30 therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has joined #lisp 18:44:31 I would expect the discussion to take place on Alexandria's mailing list 18:44:39 percopal [~percopal@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:44 -!- easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:44:44 -!- InvalidCo [~invalidco@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-54f824-20.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:44:45 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:57 I saw this on Alexandria's site: 18:44:59 Discussions on Alexandria take place on alexandria-devel mailing list -- and also #lisp on irc.freenode.net 18:45:13 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:45:28 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 So I came here, as it is more convenient for me, but if the mailing list is more appropriate, I will go there. 18:45:43 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.118.199] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:45:51 saarin [~saarin@effic.me] has joined #lisp 18:45:52 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-165-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:15 You can certainly discuss it here, but I would expect if you actually wanted to submit it, it would need to be emailed anyway 18:46:17 tajjada: I am up for discussing it. What does your utility do? 18:46:24 Blkt [~Blkt@2a01:4f8:150:80a1::aaaa] has joined #lisp 18:46:31 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:35 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:46:52 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 18:46:56 It is a very basic mapcar-like function. 18:47:11 Tell me more! 18:47:21 I wrote it after an APROPOS on alexandria and a few other packages didn't find what I wanted. 18:47:37 the suspense is killing me. 18:47:38 It is extremely basic -- let me post it on some pastebin and give you a link. 18:47:39 scnr 18:47:43 Give me a sec. 18:47:47 tajjada: use paste.lisp.org, please 18:48:00 OK 18:49:00 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 Here: http://paste.lisp.org/+312F 18:49:39 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:49:47 It is basically mapcar which traverses a whole tree, and the function gets called on every car AND cdr which is an atom. 18:50:29 I find it very useful for find-and-replace type of tasks in large trees with a lot of nested lists. 18:51:16 It works on dotted lists too -- a cdr which is an atom will also get the function called on it. 18:51:43 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 18:52:10 tajjada: like (mapcar func (flatten tree))? 18:52:20 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bshrdqmnrwuipesg] has joined #lisp 18:52:25 fmap for conses 18:53:00 It preserves the structure of the tree, like mapcar would with a list. 18:53:11 <|3b|> tajjada: does it call the function on NIL? you say atom which implies yes, but code looks like it doesn't 18:53:24 tajjada: it seems like a reasonable utility: note that subst already exists for some tree replacement tasks, though 18:53:28 Yes, my description here was faulty, sorry. 18:53:37 It does not call on nil 18:53:56 This is a generalization of a lot of more specific functions out there. 18:54:14 The way MAPCAR would build a new list out of the return values, 18:54:17 this does the same, with a tree. 18:54:26 It builds a new tree which has the same structure as the original one. 18:54:35 ... but with the return values of the function. 18:55:00 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:56:45 I don't think the treatment of NIL is consistent with a function called MAP-TREE. 18:57:21 I would expect something like that to work on conses, not conses as lists. 18:57:28 fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has joined #lisp 18:57:43 So you would say that the name of the function is not appropriate for what it does? 18:58:11 Yes. I'm not sure what I'd call what your function does, though. 18:58:43 It works if you view NIL as a leaf: but it seems nicer to view anything that isn't a cons as a leaf. 18:59:38 Well, I wrote it this way because I want it to do exactly what it does -- call the function on every element in a tree / nested lists, and return a new tree with the same structure. 18:59:47 I can't call the function on NIL 18:59:53 because it would end up recursing forever 18:59:58 on proper lists. 19:00:08 will it? 19:00:20 tajjada: I annotated with what I think of when I read MAP-TREE 19:00:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141351#1 is it. 19:00:36 OK let me have a look. 19:00:55 tajjada: if you're talking about proper lists, maybe it should be map-nested-lists. but I can't say i'm fond of that name either. 19:01:44 <|3b|> map-nested-list sounds like it would still call the function on NIL in cars 19:02:14 This may be a stupid idea, but what if 19:02:34 it accepts a keyword argument which determines if it should call the function on NIL elements? 19:02:52 And essentially ends up having the functionality of both your map-tree in the annotation and mine. 19:03:04 The advantage of treating NIL as a non-element leaf is that you can encode one-element trees 19:03:23 You can always give it a lambda that checks for nil elements, but a keyword seems more elegant IMO. 19:03:44 I actually really like your annotation -- it generalizes my function further. 19:04:19 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 19:04:56 vyv [~vyv@bas1-northbay04-1177802783.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:05:40 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:c45b:566a:52ee:eeaa] has quit [Quit: EvW] 19:09:12 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:56 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:10:29 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:cd34:8a07:def5:860f] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:12:05 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-yevfkrbiqflncvoq] has joined #lisp 19:15:01 francogrex [~user@136.108-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 -!- m1ngus_ [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:18 pjb: any idea what terms to look for? 19:17:13 msg? 19:19:09 ASau [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:59 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:39 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@198.199.115.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:22:14 ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.163] has joined #lisp 19:24:27 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:09 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 19:25:47 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: ()] 19:25:52 OK, guys, how about this? http://paste.lisp.org/+312F/3 Comments? 19:26:15 nested ifs! no 19:27:54 Well, I could rewrite it with cond... but wouldn't it expand to the same thing? 19:28:00 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 19:28:08 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:17 tajjada: that depends on the implementation 19:28:26 tajjada: it is not about what it expands to, but about how readable it is 19:28:30 tajjada: and cond is a lot more readable anyway, so why do you care for what it expands to? 19:28:41 i read code as it is written, not as it is expanded 19:29:01 Well, then I would have an if inside a cond. 19:29:45 Actually, wait. 19:29:56 -!- aftershave_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:29:59 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 19:30:01 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:12 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:57 aftershave_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:31:28 jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:36 http://paste.lisp.org/+312F/4 19:32:08 tajjada: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141351#5 19:32:25 except for (not ignore-nils) 19:32:50 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:27 I have a feeling that if I start hanging out on this channel more regularly, my coding style will end up improving a lot... so maybe I should ;) 19:33:47 tajjada: reading code helps too. 19:34:14 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:34:17 .oO(cl-ppcre is awesome bedtime reading) 19:34:29 Vivitron [~Vivitron@198.199.115.157] has joined #lisp 19:35:37 pnpuff [~Nd2Fe14B@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:36:06 stassats`: So your paste, with (not ignore-nils) inside the OR should be fine? BTW, I'm really loving how a little bit of discussion on IRC channel taught me so much in so little time... 19:36:16 yes 19:36:31 except that it can be made faster still 19:37:03 do you care about improper lists? 19:37:08 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:37:16 Well, preferably it should handle them. 19:37:44 It should work with any tree structure, regardless of what values are in any car or cdr in it. 19:37:56 -!- InvalidC1 is now known as InvalidCo 19:38:56 -!- pnpuff [~Nd2Fe14B@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:41:03 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:41:07 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:41:24 -!- francogrex [~user@136.108-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:31 -!- yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:43 So, should I submit this to the Alexandria mailing list? 19:46:29 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:46:55 By this I mean stassats` paste with (not ignore-nils). 19:47:32 no, it doesn't handle long lists 19:48:25 ?? 19:48:30 yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 19:48:40 have long lists => no luck 19:49:27 Do you mean that because it is recursive, it will exhaust the stack if the lists are too long/nested? 19:49:47 yes, nestedness can't be fixed, but logness can 19:49:53 longness 19:50:07 -!- yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:50 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-89-226.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:51:57 My brain is having a tough time coming up with an elegant way to accomplish that... recursion seems most natural and elegant. 19:53:30 Actually, wait, I have an idea, brb let me try it. 19:53:44 what's a "long list", an actual, really long list that might blow the stack if you use recursion, or is it some other term of art? 19:53:50 tajjada: you basically make your own stack 19:54:26 whartung: I think he meant the former -- long enough to exhaust the call stack. 19:54:39 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:02 ok 19:55:04 And I was thinking of a do loop which conses onto a variable and then returns it when it reaches the end of the list. 19:55:13 Let me try it -- will share code in a moment. 19:55:24 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rluuybarljjlyrfz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:56:39 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:57:07 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:33 wheelsucker [~user@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:16 Alfr [~Unknown@f053066065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:04 tajjada: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141351#6 20:01:59 yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 20:03:19 stassats`: am I not evil? Not mentionning com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:maptree :-) 20:03:25 -!- r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:03:43 why are you say this to me? 20:04:00 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:07 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:29 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 20:05:21 r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 20:05:50 stassats`: because it seems you worked hard to produce this #6. 20:06:31 i'm ready to work twice as hard just to avoid GPL 20:07:23 I see. 20:07:35 I am working hard to produce something shorter, using DO. 20:07:48 tajjada: please spare us 20:07:57 I have a related question: suppose instead of checking (or tree (not ignore-nils)) every time throught the recursion, I wanted to resolve it once to either t or tree. Is there a nice way to do that? 20:08:15 H4ns: ?? 20:08:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:53 Vivitron: two functions 20:08:59 tajjada: don't use do. 20:09:30 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:40 Why? I really dislike loop. 20:10:09 tajjada: do is not a suitable alternative 20:10:26 DO is only useful for code golfing 20:10:38 tajjada: if i get to review code that contains do, i ask the submitter to replace it by something readable before i even start to look closer. 20:10:49 or to write macros. 20:11:01 why do people dislike LOOP? 20:11:11 LOOP is awesome, I wish other languages have something like LOOP 20:11:13 Denommus: IT IS NOT LISPY! 20:11:22 nug700 [~nug700@71-35-55-244.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:25 no, DO is bad for macros, it establish BLOCK NIL 20:11:31 H4ns: Yes. 20:11:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-225.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:48 tajjada: you know that is meaningless, right? 20:11:53 Or, more like, it feels, I don't know how to explain... 20:12:00 tajjada: i just shrugged so hard you should have been hearing my bones make noises 20:12:10 tajjada: I'll explain to you: it's prejudice 20:12:11 Holly18 [~Holly18@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 20:12:13 stassats`: thanks, that's about the nicest way I see as well. 20:12:13 Here some videos. I hope you like them! http://bit.do/my_videos69 20:12:13 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Holly18@37.221.173.* 20:12:13 -!- Holly18 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Peddling pr0n is... prohibited) 20:12:36 p_l: you're not the fastest sheriff in town 20:13:03 I do admit that I wanted more flexibility for creating new stuff for LOOP. But then, there's ITERATE 20:13:15 stassats`: I am not. It's an evil hack job in Perl that does the kick 20:13:57 I don't know, but I personally find DO a lot more *logical* than loop. 20:14:02 in any case: DO/DO* => "no" 20:14:10 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:14:15 tajjada: it is a lot less readable 20:14:48 tajjada: and it is harder to reason on. QUICK! IMPLEMENT A PALINDROME CHECKER USING DO! 20:15:00 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:15:24 But it makes a lot more sense, to me at least, maybe I should go read more on (and more code using) LOOP, and practice using LOOP more. I always avoided LOOP. 20:15:41 Denommus: (do () (t (equalp seq (reverse seq)))) 20:15:43 tajjada: you may not like it, but avoiding loop is something that beginners do. most cl hackers get over it after a few years :) 20:15:51 pjb: *puke* 20:16:01 there's always some collective hysteria against using LOOP 20:16:36 I don't mind DO as much as the others in the channel, but alternate forms have the benefit of being explicit about what is happening, e.g. with dolist or loop it's very plainly stated when you are iterating over a list 20:16:48 pjb: https://gist.github.com/Denommus/8530515 20:17:21 -!- p_l has set mode -b *!*Holly18@37.221.173.* 20:17:43 Denommus: that's no good 20:18:10 And for a palindrome checker, can't you just: (let ((str (format nil "~A" x))) (string-equal str (reverse str))) ? 20:18:20 I am doing the string business, so it even detects numbers, like 20:18:25 12.3 3.21 20:18:33 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:49 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA32D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:59 Sorry, I meant: 12.21 20:21:17 -!- jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:21:18 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 20:21:38 zfx [~zfx@host31-48-119-213.range31-48.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:16 ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.89] has joined #lisp 20:24:01 what are you talking about? string-equal doesn't handle any numbers 20:24:24 stassats`: that's why he called format. 20:24:59 well, using reverse is already pretty bad 20:25:25 what does being a palindrome even mean for floating point 20:25:33 (loop for i below (floor (length string) 2) always (char= (char string i) (char string (- (length string) i 1)))) 20:25:48 Bike: by this definition 123.456<->654.321 20:25:50 xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has joined #lisp 20:28:37 what about 4000.0005? 20:28:58 (read-from-string (reverse (princ-to-string 4000.0005))) => 5000.0005 20:30:08 that's a bug in your algorithm. 20:30:17 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:38 i have no algorithm 20:34:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:22 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:35:10 gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has joined #lisp 20:36:25 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:21 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 Floating point imprecision. 20:38:57 Yes. 20:39:34 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 20:39:35 What I did was, calling format so that anything that prints the same in reverse, regardless of type, passes. 20:40:54 tajjada: which is a correct algorithm, contrarily to stassats`'s because he uses read-from-string. 20:41:25 And, as for using reverse, you write code differently depending on whether you care more about performance or short code or readable code. 20:41:34 my algorithm doesn't use read-from-string 20:41:43 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:41:52 Using format and reverse is terrible for performance, I agree, but it makes short code. 20:42:06 Which works, and fits on 1 or 2 lines. 20:42:09 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 20:42:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:43 the code i pasted fits two lines 20:43:05 /exit 20:43:12 ...oops 20:43:33 now, maybe if you were using DO it would have been ten lines 20:43:41 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:44:04 That's why I don't use DO for something like this. 20:44:10 Don't understand me wrong, guys 20:44:14 what I meant 20:44:15 do you use TAGBODY? 20:44:33 when I argued for DO, was that in certain cases it can make code shorter. 20:44:35 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*@37.221.173.* 20:45:08 is shorter code a good thing? 20:45:39 If I need to use a bunch of variables and iterate until something happens to those variables, and each variable changes in its own way -- that type of thing just fits naturally into DO, IMO. 20:46:33 There are cases where I think DO makes a lot of sense, but I don't use it when there is something more readable which doesn't also make code longer. 20:47:02 I am not gonna use DO when I can use LET and DOLIST, for example. 20:47:27 you are welcome to make your code ugly 20:47:34 i just use loop most of the time heh 20:51:01 if i were to make my own version of CL, it would be everything the same, except without DOLIST, DOTIMES an DO 20:51:03 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51:09 heh 20:51:34 What is the problem with DOTIMES and DOLIST? How are they not readable? 20:51:49 there's just no reason to use them 20:51:56 i don't think they're any worse than anything else, loop is just concise for a lot of things 20:52:13 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:23 So you would say, simply always use LOOP for any sort of iteration, and never use anything else? 20:52:24 CL has its fair share of overlapping functionality 20:52:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:52:54 dotimes, dolist are nice. I'd add dovector. 20:53:12 tajjada: sounds about right 20:53:27 except maybe for MAP* on existing functions 20:53:31 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:41 phao [~phao@177-44-156-148.link10.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:53:44 if it requires wrapping in a lambda => there goes LOOP 20:54:01 Hi. As a curiosity, are there people doing shader based OpenGL programming in common lisp? 20:54:01 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:54:09 Yes, me. 20:54:18 ^ to phao. 20:54:18 phao: yes, some of us are on #lispgames 20:54:21 tajjada, heya =) Can I get to see some code? =D 20:54:37 https://github.com/lispgames/cl-sdl2/blob/master/examples/cairo-gl.lisp 20:54:42 as a very trivial example 20:54:46 Thanks. 20:54:51 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:55:02 -!- aftershave_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:55:12 older style shaders, but if you know the difference, you already know how to change it :P 20:55:54 phao: I am working on a project for building a 2D game library in common lisp. My design principles for the library is that it should be modelled after the language itself -- provide basic constructs that everything else builds on. 20:56:11 I haven't gotten very far though, since I started working on other projects recently, but I will get back to it. 20:56:16 Let me give you a link. 20:56:20 ok. 20:57:16 Actually, I was hosting it on my own server which I recently reinstalled -- the repository is there but there is no web UI... 20:57:24 yet. 20:57:35 When I come up with something, I will /query you, OK? 20:57:45 Ok, but don't worry about it. 21:02:45 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 21:04:53 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 21:05:45 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:46 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.189] has joined #lisp 21:07:21 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:32 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 21:12:34 -!- phao [~phao@177-44-156-148.link10.com.br] has left #lisp 21:13:26 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:36 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:35 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-165-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:40 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:e8e7:4f0e:4491:c8f2] has joined #lisp 21:15:51 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:57 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 21:16:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:55 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:17:11 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:26 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-129-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:17:56 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.118.206] has joined #lisp 21:20:34 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21:22 -!- tajjada [~tajjada@197.179.4.17] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:01 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 21:23:31 brown` [user@nat/google/x-udidawapatghlvaf] has joined #lisp 21:24:35 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 21:25:49 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:06 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 21:29:01 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 21:29:45 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@84-127-15.connect.netcom.no] has left #lisp 21:31:02 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 21:32:35 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 21:32:38 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:17 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35:41 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38:09 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:41:03 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44:51 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.118.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:46:13 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 21:46:20 lisp is in the 8th rank for the number of hacker news submissions about programming languages, but in the 1st rank for the most well-liked programming languages! Yay for lisp! http://minimaxir.com/2014/02/hacking-hacker-news/ 21:46:55 we're #8! we're #8! 21:46:58 *Xach* lights chair on fire 21:47:16 ... in an echo chamber with lot of idiocy. We can do better. 21:47:55 now to port arc over to cl 21:49:27 ASau [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:51:53 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:53:41 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:cd34:8a07:def5:860f] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:14 Xach: we're 1st most liked language! 21:55:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:12 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:04:44 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:57 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:54 jaimef: drewc did that a long time ago 22:11:45 Xach: nice. 22:12:25 So long ago that I think I was crazy to do so :) 22:13:44 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:cd34:8a07:def5:860f] has joined #lisp 22:14:06 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-83.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:17:52 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@84.Red-88-18-77.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:18:45 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:43 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.254] has joined #lisp 22:24:01 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:12 -!- net4all [2024@faust.lysator.liu.se] has left #lisp 22:31:29 normanrichards [~textual@adsl-67-64-66-5.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:21 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:33:34 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:34:36 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:27 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 22:37:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:34 -!- TMP|at_Uni is now known as The-Mad-Pirate 22:40:39 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-yevfkrbiqflncvoq] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:44:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:45:07 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.254] has joined #lisp 22:45:17 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 22:51:38 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 22:52:20 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 22:52:21 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.147.74] has joined #lisp 22:52:55 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZZ] 22:53:43 -!- jlg [~jl@41.141.231.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:58 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:59:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:35 -!- pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 23:00:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:02:21 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:e8e7:4f0e:4491:c8f2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:46 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-3.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:28 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:08:15 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D75A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:09:04 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-3.thefacebook.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:11:12 -!- kami [~user@p57A28EFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:34 bcoburn [bcoburn@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:58 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:16 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 23:19:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:22:59 cory786 [~cory@68.sub-70-194-195.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:40 urandom__ [~user@p5DC6F695.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:31 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:57 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 -!- rk[lies]_ is now known as rk[lies] 23:32:57 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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