00:01:34 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE745.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:01:55 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 00:03:38 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 00:07:13 Abby27 [~Abby27@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 00:07:15 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos69 00:08:00 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:15 -!- Abby27 [~Abby27@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:26 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:37 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:08:56 -!- WarWeasle is now known as _WarWeasle 00:10:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:19 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 00:10:22 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 00:10:32 -!- _WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 00:11:47 frx [frx@93-138-30-173.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:11:58 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:18:05 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 00:18:36 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21:41 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:51 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:23:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:15 ckoch786 [~ckoch786@ne102611l.eng.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 00:24:19 ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:24:58 mwnaylor [~user@altoona-69-72-75-3.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:5026:af6a:78f7:3106] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:30 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:21 rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has joined #lisp 00:31:03 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:10 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:41 normanrichards [~textual@107.107.189.169] has joined #lisp 00:35:53 mgodshall [~mgodshall@c-68-83-250-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:57 ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:37:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:40:05 Cromulent [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:29 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:42:16 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 00:42:55 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:21 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 00:44:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.188.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:26 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:47:24 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:48:14 -!- iwilcox is now known as iqilcox 00:48:30 -!- iqilcox is now known as iwilcox 00:48:41 leo2007 [~leo@123.115.255.183] has joined #lisp 00:50:51 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:35 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:38 fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has joined #lisp 00:51:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 00:52:21 -!- seangrove [~user@c-50-161-76-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:52:28 hullo 00:52:51 I have a little existential question 00:53:04 -!- Cromulent [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:53:13 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:54:03 Say I have, for example, two classes game-map and territory, game-map having a collection of territory instances 00:54:26 said collection being implemented as a hash-table 00:54:54 It's not in my best interests to expose that as a hash-table to observers of game-map 00:55:18 -!- Kiryx [~Kiryx@85-202-48-130.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:55:30 but I should provide some way to observe them, for example, to print said map 00:56:27 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.95.184] has joined #lisp 00:56:43 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:58:09 What is "canon" to do? Should I provide a (mapterritories function game-map) à la maphash? Should I provide for example an iterate extension like (defmacro-clause (for-territory spec on-game-map game) ... )? 00:58:19 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 00:58:32 Or both? Or some other option? 00:59:33 -!- clintm [~clintm@174-24-213-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 00:59:53 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:00:03 there's no "right way" 01:00:16 but passing in a visitor function seems reasonable 01:00:36 also, consider that you might want to give a range to your iteration, not just call it for the entire world 01:01:31 -!- bcoburn [~nialo@66.87.117.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:43 if i use iterate, to use a range (say, the territories owned by a given player) i could use a when clause 01:04:55 seeing as this is game-centric, I'd not consider that a good performance decision 01:05:15 unless the number of elements is known bounded small 01:06:23 it is a turn-based game with bounded amounts of territories, similar to risk 01:06:35 with one territory per country or so 01:06:59 ok. I don't think it matters what you choose then 01:07:23 since it's so arbitrary in this context, performance would be the only real constraint I'd see 01:07:32 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:46 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:00 -!- vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 01:08:03 performance could matter tho, if a web server is running the backend for several instances of the game for example 01:08:08 <_death> fchurca: a map-territories is a good start 01:08:22 -!- normanrichards [~textual@107.107.189.169] has quit [] 01:08:28 ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:08:40 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:38 cashew [~user@71-81-75-38.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:52 just curious; in what could further steps consist, if that's a start? 01:11:37 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:17 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.245.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:32 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 01:16:00 <_death> it depends on your needs and style.. e.g., that iterate clause, with-territories-iterator, do-territories, list-territories.. and of course all kinds of mapping options may come handy 01:16:47 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:10 -!- segv_ [~mb@95-91-242-31-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:20:49 interesting 01:21:16 <_death> fchurca: here's one such operator I defined: https://github.com/death/consix/blob/master/gob.lisp#L493 01:22:04 -!- therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:08 <_death> so options like filtering by type, enumeration order, support for collecting.. 01:22:51 stopbyte [~stopbit@198.178.121.206] has joined #lisp 01:22:59 indeed 01:23:18 that seems to be a game, from the variable and function names 01:23:28 <_death> sometimes you'd prefer these concerns to be separated.. but sometimes a mega-operator is convenient :) 01:23:36 sohail_ [~sohail@75.119.248.79] has joined #lisp 01:23:53 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:53 (and from the "consix is a ... game" in the description XD) 01:23:54 <_death> yes.. but not much concern for efficiency there.. to make an understatement 01:24:20 is that cli-based? graphical? web? 01:24:35 <_death> fchurca: opengl.. you can install it using quicklisp: (ql:quickload "consix") 01:25:06 <_death> the generic "game object" code comes from an earlier game: (ql:quickload "towers") 01:25:17 would you mind giving a quick opinion on how comfy was it to use opengl? 01:25:42 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.128] has joined #lisp 01:25:42 and on other options you considered/experimented with? 01:25:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:26:23 <_death> well, these games are 2D and have basic graphics (no textures, for instance) 01:26:36 <_death> I just wanted to keep them light and portable 01:27:12 <_death> consix was made in 7 days, towers is just evolved from mindless hacking as well :) 01:27:16 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:28:33 <_death> fchurca: https://github.com/death/consix/wiki for a bit of text.. there's also a postmortem link there 01:28:52 let's see 01:28:54 Is performance a big problem for CL game ? 01:28:54 <_death> gtg to sleep now 01:30:07 arright, thanks for the insight _death! (and White_Flame too) 01:30:55 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:32:54 zRecursive: it depends on which implementation you're using, but in my opinion, half a century of research on compilers is bound to produce efficient binaries 01:33:18 CL is fast. THere's no reason it should be slow for games 01:33:31 but you shouldn't let GC delays get out of hand. Watch the consing 01:35:21 -!- frx [frx@93-138-30-173.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:35:59 frx [frx@78.1.182.1] has joined #lisp 01:42:08 -!- mwnaylor [~user@altoona-69-72-75-3.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has left #lisp 01:43:28 atgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-211.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 01:44:49 develope_ [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:32 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 -!- G67693 [~user@189.62.105.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:54 -!- develope_ [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 01:51:08 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:30 harish [~harish@49.245.17.7] has joined #lisp 01:55:02 well, i'm leaving too 01:55:09 thanks again White_Flame ! 01:55:12 fchurca: i am using CCL 01:56:57 Both maxima and stumpwm are produced by CCL, which works great ! 01:57:18 -!- jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:29 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.53.224] has joined #lisp 01:57:54 nihils [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03db86.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:43 CCL boasts "Fast execution speed, competitive with other Common Lisp implementations " according to its own webpage. I haven't used it myself beyond toying with maxima so you'll have to take their word rather than mine :P 01:59:15 I personally use SBCL, but haven't run benchmarks there. 01:59:16 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 02:00:41 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03fdc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:01:46 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:03:22 well, I am leaving now 02:03:28 see you around 02:03:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:35 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:02 -!- harish [~harish@49.245.17.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:55 -!- cashew [~user@71-81-75-38.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:09:05 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9C245.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:57 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 02:11:07 sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:f925:ccf3:2f05:7e2b] has joined #lisp 02:11:54 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 02:12:34 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:20 bye 02:19:50 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:46 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 02:24:55 What does it mean that Common Lisps parentheses help with refactoring? I've read comments like that in several places. Does this mean anything to anyone? 02:26:03 sexps can be sliced and diced more easily using a smart editor. this is harder to do in languages with more variable syntax 02:26:27 arigoins [~ari@97-123-21-237.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:29 sounds like nonsense. the hard part of refactoring is not the surface syntax 02:26:57 slyrus [~chatzilla@137.164.119.50] has joined #lisp 02:26:57 and whatever you gain there, you lose in the complexity of dealing with macros 02:27:28 drmeister: The usual argument is that you can cut and paste them more easily using a stupid editor. 02:27:45 Sufficiently smart editors have no problems with anything. :) 02:28:17 drmeister: think paredit. people use "refactor" a lot when all they are talking about is moving code snippets around 02:28:37 DataLinkDroid: Ok - I guess that's referring to using emacs sexp transpose and sexp delete. It's easy for the editor to recognize chunks of code. I'll buy that but I personally don't find it those editor capabilities very useful. 02:29:22 Zhivago: Like those "sufficiently smart compilers" I keep hearing about. 02:30:24 i do... :) although i don't use the whole paredit armory 02:30:43 drmeister: yeah. bring on strong AI ... 02:31:21 I was curious because I'm hooking clang's C++ refactoring capabilities into Common Lisp and using it to do serious refactoring of C++ code. I'm thinking about how I can change my Common Lisp compiler to endow it with the same modularity of clang to enable that kind of refactoring and semantically aware tools for Common Lisp. 02:33:39 drmeister: i might be able to help out after a couple hundred years of studying compiler design... ;-) 02:35:34 -!- gmcastil [~user@97-122-163-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:43 drmeister: matlab's ide has this 'grouping' feature where code that's 'together', like a for loop for instance, can be selected and moved as one thing, and these nest etc. that falls pretty basically out of kill-sexp-forward and all, mostly 02:36:23 DataLinkDroid: It's not so hard - here's an awesome tutorial about getting started writing a compiler - http://llvm.org/docs/tutorial/ 02:37:26 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75.119.248.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:53 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:14 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-obnhwqqwpuktbslj] has joined #lisp 02:38:31 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:40:23 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 02:41:25 drmeister: ha! :) thanks. i bookmarked it for those lonely seconds just before falling asleep! actually, i did bookmark it. thanks for that. 02:41:56 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6a4d3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:02 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-243-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:57 -!- zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:44:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@137.164.119.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:44:53 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6902a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:44:58 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-243-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:45:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@137.164.119.50] has joined #lisp 02:46:12 zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #lisp 02:47:00 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.53.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:49:09 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.53.224] has joined #lisp 02:49:09 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:17 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:51:25 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-5FC6C61C.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:51:44 mhd_ [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:44 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:35 -!- Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:29 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:56:10 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:56:16 What on earth do you do when you're given a "csv" file which includes some fields that are encoded as UTF-8, some that are encoded as 8859-1 (latin-1, and not the parts that are readable as utf-8), and some fields which can contain an odd "&#" escape to indicate a decimal unicode character code? 02:56:39 ask for more money? 02:57:00 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:09 Oh, wouldn't THAT be nice. Unfortunately, I have an equity stake already. /-: 02:58:12 For part of the whole process I was having trouble getting actual COMMA separated value files. 02:58:38 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:59:01 Oh, and fare-csv likes to discard empty fields at the end of an input line. Just one more fun thing to deal with. 03:01:43 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 03:02:49 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.28.47] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:03:57 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 03:04:42 fare-csv - great stuff. 03:04:42 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 03:05:32 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 03:05:35 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:01 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:07:19 Yeah, it's great, except when it breaks down. Completely stupid input data is one place where it breaks down, but that trailing empty field is another. 03:07:43 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:49 dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #lisp 03:08:29 If you can't distinguish between two cases but someone else can, that someone else has an advantage over you. 03:09:33 In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king. 03:09:41 Exactly. 03:10:40 *drmeister* thinks or queen - he doesn't really care how people swing. 03:10:54 If your JSON parser can't tell the difference between an object field that wasn't supplied and NULL, you have a problem. Or if it can't tell the difference between an object field that wasn't supplied and an emtpy array. Or between an empty array or NULL. 03:11:27 lisper29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:03 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:12:20 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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12:43:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:39 therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has joined #lisp 12:46:29 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:48:36 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:42 iR0bin [~iR0bin@pw126253205049.6.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:50:18 Hello. Can someone explain "symbolic programming" I only recently understood OOP 12:54:10 ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:26 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:56:26 Consider one third of pi -- how can you represent that precisely? 12:56:29 iR0bin: That term can refer to different things 12:56:47 Hmmm 12:57:10 iR0bin: in the context of Lisp it usually refers to symbols being first-class citizens 12:57:42 Well the definition i read said its a style of language that can learn because it doesnt assign value to variables the variable becomes that value. 12:57:58 That sounds like gibberish. 12:58:00 iR0bin: I guess you can say that 12:58:03 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.77.127] has joined #lisp 12:58:07 But it's irrelevant 12:58:21 I'd think about how to represent one third of pi precisely, instead. 12:58:39 iR0bin: I think you should simply stup thinking about it, because it will probably prevent you from actually understanding how to develop using Lisp 12:58:56 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59:10 There's always the Gentle Introduction http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 12:59:17 It depends on if he wants to understand symbolic computation or not. 12:59:18 I'm not sure if that's the same "symbolic computation", though 12:59:21 ggole: Way too gentle 12:59:42 Haha ok. Well i am studying python and was wondering what makes lisp so different 12:59:49 ggole: Zhivagos definition is more relating to that of symbolic mathematic systems. Very little to do with Lisp 13:00:11 Lisp isnt oop? 13:00:13 Too gentle, ok, but I don't have a copy of Symbolic Computation In A Murderous Rage handy. 13:00:17 But everything to do with symbolic computation. 13:00:26 It's more that symbolic computation has little to do with lisp. 13:00:29 iR0bin: it has the most powerful object orientation system of all languages 13:00:41 0.o 13:00:45 iR0bin: But the language "isn't OOP" in the sense that it doesn't force you to use it 13:00:51 Depending on how you measure the power of OOP. 13:00:52 Ok 13:00:52 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:54 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:01:06 For example, you can't define a new kind of sequence. :) 13:01:16 sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 13:01:19 Zhivago: Well... Most CL's have extensions that allow it 13:01:28 Zhivago: But yeah, the standard unfortunately omits that 13:01:30 Well, the language itself doesn't have OOP. It's extension to language written by users. 13:01:42 hitecnologys: Umm... CLOS is most definitely part of the standard 13:01:43 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:01:44 The key of oop is that objects with given attributes but is namespaces a part of what makes oop oop 13:02:07 Ima newb:P 13:02:14 iR0bin: Namespaces ("packages" in CL) is orthogonal to the object orientation 13:02:17 loke_erc: it is now. 13:02:24 hitecnologys: It's been since the 80's 13:02:25 The key of oop is actually procedural abstraction with a distinction between fundamental and accidental properties. 13:02:29 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:02:35 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:41 Nobody agrees what the key of OOP is. 13:02:47 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-96-199.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:50 Oh great^ 13:02:54 (What's that saying about standards?) 13:03:20 However, if you want to understand OOP in CL, then start with (class-of 10). 13:03:31 Any books on oop and programming theory u guys recommend? 13:03:44 Not language specific books? 13:03:44 I'd recommend one that helps you to spell "you" first. 13:04:07 Programmers really hate short hand haha. 13:04:25 I think you misspelt 'subliterate gibberish'. 13:04:26 iR0bin: Correct. If it's so hard to type, you can write an Emacs macro that types it for you. 13:04:49 Baby steps^ 13:05:05 iR0bin: If you want to learn Common Lisp, I'd recommend http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 13:05:11 Excuse my short hand I didnt mean to offend. 13:05:53 loke_erc: hmm, so CLOS was part of Lisp when there was even no CL? Nice. 13:05:55 iR0bin: It has a chapter on the object orientation, but you really should read the chapters before, first. 13:06:02 Ok 13:06:12 hitecnologys: That makes no sense. 13:06:37 I appreciate the input. Im going to read up now and make my "you" macro;) 13:06:42 The precursor to CLOS was around well before CL was standardised. 13:06:43 hitech: Consider what the CL in CLOS stand for. 13:06:53 hitecnologys: What you are saying is akin to arguing that C++ doesn't "really" have classes because the first implementation was a preprocessor on top of C. 13:06:55 Zhivago: that's the point. 13:07:03 (I should properly say "precursor_s_".) 13:07:16 hitech: Which point? 13:07:19 Oh, crap. 13:07:34 I forgot that CLOS wansn't first implementation of OOP. 13:07:36 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:47 Never mind, I'd better get back to coding. 13:07:52 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:07:52 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 13:08:43 That would have been back in algol, I guess, as it developed simula. 13:09:25 I should probably think before typing messages. =P 13:11:04 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:12:59 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:13:30 -!- iR0bin [~iR0bin@pw126253205049.6.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:14:25 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:48 Choo3 [~other@188.162.65.21] has joined #lisp 13:14:55 > Namespaces ("packages" in CL) is orthogonal to the object orientation 13:14:57 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:15:05 what does "orthogonal" means in that context? 13:15:18 Independent. 13:15:28 Packages partition symbol spaces. 13:15:44 Zhivago: unrelated is fine too? 13:15:52 Sure. 13:16:03 thanks 13:16:05 -!- Choo3 [~other@188.162.65.21] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:56 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:02 ehu` [~ehu@62.140.132.216] has joined #lisp 13:24:13 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-96-199.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 13:32:01 If client sent TCP packet with FIN flag, can I safely assume that socket was closed and remove references to it? 13:32:44 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.45.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:32:51 hitecnologys: how do you know that FIN was sent? did you read until EOF? 13:33:06 flip214: aha. 13:34:07 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 13:34:41 flip214: does EOF mean FIN flag was received or I'm wrong? 13:35:54 -!- r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:09 well, "which" EOF do you mean? there's a kind-of-EOF for "no more data available" (non-blocking IO), and one for "FIN or RST received" (or shutdown()).... 13:38:06 EOF for "no more data". 13:39:19 asc [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has joined #lisp 13:41:48 atgreen [~green@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:45:35 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:49:33 Which is preferred? (lambda () foo) or #'(lambda () foo) 13:50:11 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:53:31 aeth: LAMBDA is a macro, #'(lambda ...) is a special form, IIRC. 13:53:33 -!- atgreen [~green@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:55:29 aeth: so (lambda ...) expands to #'(lambda ...) which expands to (function (lambda ...)) anyway. 13:57:21 aeth: use whichever you want, there are no restrictions or specific conventions about it. However, you may consider using #' because it shows that form after it is a function. 13:57:26 doomlord_ [~servitor@host109-151-65-32.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:46 You can already tell that from the 'lambda', though. 13:59:05 Yeah, but I prefer #' anyway. 14:00:09 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:00:29 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 14:00:38 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:31 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:46 OK, good to know that it doesn't matter. 14:08:56 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 14:09:36 ASau` [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:07 Is #' more common? 14:10:44 I think so. 14:10:54 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:16 I don't think so. 14:11:16 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:22 Why? 14:11:32 I was going to ask the same question. 14:12:00 I wonder how big all the packages in Quicklisp are combined. It would be interesting to data mine it to see which conventions and styles are common. 14:12:02 Well, I saw more lambdas with #' than without. 14:12:14 aeth: it would be interesting. 14:12:15 Or perhaps there's a way to do this with Github, excluding duplicates. Might be harder. 14:12:25 hitecnologys: including the ones you typed yourself? 14:12:51 Quicklisp at least excludes duplicates, uses the source repo (although Github usually has mirrors), and is for projects that are used. 14:12:54 Mind you, I doubt there's an overwhelming majority either way. 14:13:01 aeth: it would be but that's so much work. One will need months to do something like this. 14:13:08 ggole: aha. 14:13:30 ggole: however, I didn't include them in "I think so". 14:13:57 hitecnologys: I'm actually wondering how much the code I write myself contributes to my feeling that no #' is more common 14:14:17 It is all to easy to be biased. 14:14:43 ggole: anyway, there's only one way to find out which is more common: count. 14:14:59 hitecnologys: Isn't the hardest part gathering the data set? If you already have tons of Lisp packages in one spot (like Quicklisp), you could do this: grep -r "(lambda" . | wc -l; grep -r "(lambda" . | grep -v "#'(lambda" | wc -l 14:15:12 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:15:13 Methinks it's somewhat like big-endian v. little-endian. 14:15:13 Well, that's naively... on a large data set more than 2 seconds thought to save some execution time would help 14:15:41 Other conventions and styles would be harder, but this should be purely line-based 14:15:46 Not enough of a difference for there to be an actual majority either way... 14:15:51 It will only mess up if you have more than one lambda in the same line. 14:16:35 aeth: I thought you said "conventions and styles". Counting lambdas is one thing, analysing conventions and styles is another thing. 14:16:39 aeth: Those are either incidental or the product of a sick, sick mind. 14:17:20 Odin-: Well, we're talking about data mining as many Lisp files as possible... Corner cases like these will probably come up. The question is if it is enough to matter or not. 14:17:23 Probably not. 14:17:50 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:58 hitecnologys: A lot of conventions could be similarly easy to test, e.g. whether anyone actually uses that emacs default to mix tabs and spaces. 14:18:29 And a lot would be harder. 14:18:30 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:35 Three lambdas on the same line isn't normal. But on CPS it is. CPS: not even once. 14:19:08 aeth: sure thing. 14:19:49 aeth: that's no easy work anyway. 14:20:25 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-60-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 Oh wow, apparently "(lambda" wins out over "#'(lambda" by far on the packages I have, with 7386/8975 unless I wrote my one-liner incorrectly. Not scientific because Quicklisp leaves duplicate directories. 14:20:42 I did not expect this. 14:21:03 Huh. 14:21:28 OK then, I was probably wrong. 14:23:24 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 14:24:01 And already my mind is filled with just-so stories about why this might be the case, like it being shorter and easier to type, and it looks more like Scheme. 14:24:07 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.76] has joined #lisp 14:24:36 But, really, I shouldn't speak for all the people who wrote the packages I just happened to grep. 14:24:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:31 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.178.98] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:25:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:25:35 aeth: 7178/6148 here 14:25:53 Shinmera: Right, the 1st number should be larger because that's all uses of lambda, and the 2nd filters #'(lambda 14:26:12 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:12 I probably should reverse the order so it's a fraction 14:26:30 (Never code sh in real time on IRC without testing it!) 14:33:27 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:35:36 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:33 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:39:39 aeth: It doesn't matter 14:39:51 aeth: #'(lambda is still better :-) 14:40:49 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:483c:8db:114d:fef1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:33 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:45:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:46:30 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:25 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dilalcdxjgixngeh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:14 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:49 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-100.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:01 -!- oleo is now known as wbooze 14:51:40 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 -!- wbooze is now known as oleo 14:52:43 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:58 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-srliotwrglvlpjnh] has joined #lisp 14:55:48 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:56:13 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:56:57 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:57:20 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:57:46 -!- Mandus_ [aasmundo@128.39.36.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:59:00 loke_erc: Right, if popularity was the only thing that matters I'd be coding C++ in Visual Studio for Windows XP. 14:59:30 Or is it C# now? 14:59:49 Mandus_ [aasmundo@128.39.36.51] has joined #lisp 15:01:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:56 aeth: no, it's Java. 15:02:04 Or Objective C in Xcode for the iPhone? 15:02:35 Not like it matters. 15 years ago you could've been coding Common Lisp in GNU Emacs and you can still do it 15 years from now. Coding fads change, but Lisp is always there. :P 15:03:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:03:39 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:03:59 15 years ago it was pretty hairy using Common Lisp. 15:04:04 It's way better now. 15:04:20 Yes. 15:04:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicklisp 15:04:30 Xach: It exists! 15:04:44 slime is no small feat either 15:04:56 Not just that, but basic compliance was shaky too. 15:05:21 Your implementation might be all right, but it might not be, and what you could share varied by what bugs existed in the target of sharing. 15:05:35 Imagine if it was all GCLs and CLISPs. 15:06:14 quicklisp certainly couldn't have existed without much more effort to work around major bugs 15:06:38 now i can just ignore buggy or antique implementations because there are so few, and they are niche 15:07:06 o happy day, 2014! 15:09:01 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:22 Xach: does new quicklisp client changed dist update, so that new libs are not downloaded during update time 15:09:30 but only when (ql:quickloaded) 15:10:27 xificurC [~xificurC@chello089173065166.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 15:10:32 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: danlentz] 15:10:45 antonv: Updates to existing installed libraries should happen during update. 15:10:53 No intentional change in that regard was made. 15:11:33 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0839.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:12:00 Did you observe otherwise? 15:12:10 I think so 15:12:15 But not sure 15:12:27 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:13:39 Might be mistaken 15:13:41 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xflrckhyyrpqnzek] has joined #lisp 15:13:42 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xflrckhyyrpqnzek] has quit [Changing host] 15:13:42 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:14:08 to test it I need to know some library changed between two dist versions, install one dist, then preform an update 15:14:09 I didn't notice anything unusual during my last update, but I didn't check rigorously 15:14:20 iolib changed 15:14:27 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:14:35 oh? we're all up to date on iolib now? 15:14:55 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 15:14:56 yes. 15:15:02 grats 15:15:04 it is pulling from git 15:15:18 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:29 Xach: are you going to release quicklisp 2014-02-11? 15:15:42 Let's get dangerous! 15:16:14 antonv: I have done it already but not announced it 15:16:26 cl-sdl2 in Quicklisp now :o 15:16:35 it is? does it work? 15:16:45 *Xach* hopes so 15:16:48 I'm about to test it. 15:17:13 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-27-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:14 g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:22 percopal [~percopal@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:29 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:17 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:41 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:19:43 Works for me. 15:19:51 cool 15:20:05 Xach: I've tested, iolib is fetched when I update dist 15:20:44 antonv: ok, that is good, thanks for checking. 15:20:48 Probably I was confused previously because I have all libs installed, so there were nothing to download when I switch dist versions 15:21:51 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:21:57 quicklisp's lack of cleanup with a silver lining 15:24:22 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0904.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:24:27 -!- percopal [~percopal@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: percopal] 15:25:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:32 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:57 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 15:31:44 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:33:40 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-219-15.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:18 trebor_dki [~user@153.96.244.11] has joined #lisp 15:35:43 -!- g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:50 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:36:15 jdz [~jdz@mail.prosperitycapital.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:15 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:38:38 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:38:45 How do I check if some function exists? 15:39:16 (symbol-function 'foo) throws error if function FOO doesn't exist. I need to prevent this from happening. 15:42:14 fboundp 15:43:04 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.76] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 Oh, I forgot about that. 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connection] 16:48:11 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:48:20 -!- lisper29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:46 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:47 Should IRC log files be separated by date or should they be all in one big file per channel? 16:49:03 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:49:40 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:49:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:50:09 separated 16:50:12 aeth: however you set it up 16:50:28 Xach: Yes, I think that makes the most sense because the Freenode files can get quite large. 16:50:36 It might eventually break some filesystems. 16:51:05 I split them up only per month 16:51:17 but having one big one, that might be too much after some years 16:51:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:23 therik: Yes, splitting per month is what I think I am going to go for. 16:52:37 clintm [~clintm@75-165-12-168.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 aeth: server or client? 16:53:04 therik: An IRC client server. 16:53:16 uh 16:53:30 -!- therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has left #lisp 16:53:34 therik: I'm tired of having to run an IRC client persisting in tmux. Generally, when a program runs in tmux or screen, it's because it really should be written as a daemon. 16:53:39 therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has joined #lisp 16:53:44 therik: I'm tired of having to run an IRC client persisting in tmux. Generally, when a program runs in tmux or screen, it's because it really should be written as a daemon. 16:54:03 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:11 I see 16:54:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:52 Iirc, cl-irc is very feature complete, so all I would need to do is write logging, and a daemon. Then the headless would serve as a bot, and you could connect to it with a client. 16:54:59 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 There probably is already some sort of logging library that would work. 16:55:28 aeth: I was thinking about doing something similar 16:55:36 is there a more succinct way to write this: (cons (car x) (cons (car x) (...))) 16:56:00 hmm, there's a cl-ncurses. 16:57:22 joneshf: (list* (car x) (car x) ...) perhaps. 16:57:23 (list (car x) (car x) (...)) I guess 16:57:24 hereandthere [47c7a212@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.199.162.18] has joined #lisp 16:57:31 cl-irc <-> very thin headless wrapper that logs to text files <-> very basic ncurses client 16:58:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:40 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:23 ah, I didn't know that list* makes dotted 16:59:24 there's already znc 17:00:33 therik: sortof, it's more useful for prepending 17:01:38 Xach, wonderful, didn't know about list*, but that's precisely what i wanted 17:01:47 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:29 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 Comcast, the paradigm of reliability. 17:02:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 17:02:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 17:02:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:03:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05:44 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-131-135.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:53 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:01 -!- ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:06:12 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 17:06:14 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:51 cory` [~ckoch786@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 17:08:56 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:09:18 ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has joined #lisp 17:10:24 -!- Subfusc_ is now known as Subfusc 17:11:02 dim: ping 17:12:04 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 17:13:57 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 17:15:14 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:18 Comcast, a paragon of reliability. 17:19:27 Comcast, the Zeus of reliability. 17:20:02 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:20:17 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:20:53 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:20:53 -!- cory` [~ckoch786@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:21:22 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:22:27 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:11 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 17:24:28 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:01 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.76] has joined #lisp 17:26:15 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 17:28:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:25 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:55 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:15 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-qouyfiuyeauubkss] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:32:21 When using emacs, what would you recommend to use to highlight "restricted" functions. E.g.: functions you would get dinged on in a school assignment, or functions your work has deemed not to use. 17:32:35 i was thinking something with fly{check,make} but wondering about other tools 17:32:52 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:24 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 17:34:36 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:35:38 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@213.155.126.9] has joined #lisp 17:39:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:18 I don't know, exactly, but I think I would start looking at font lock regular expressions. 17:40:29 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:40:36 joneshf-laptop: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AddKeywords yeah, font lock looks like it could help 17:42:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:08 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:41 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:47:54 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:58 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:21 -!- zenyfish_ is now known as zenyfish 17:53:34 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 17:53:53 lisper29 [~lisper@31.55.46.238] has joined #lisp 17:56:53 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:32 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:30 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 18:00:09 -!- ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:02:08 -!- rk[aarons] is now known as rk[] 18:02:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:27 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 18:04:43 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:27 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@unaffiliated/rvncerr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:05:53 -!- zymurgy [~zymurgy@li607-220.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:05:54 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:11 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.106.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:06:24 ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has joined #lisp 18:06:26 rvncerr [~rvncerr@unaffiliated/rvncerr] has joined #lisp 18:06:30 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:28 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:15 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:42 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:26 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 18:10:40 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:40 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 18:11:53 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@213.155.126.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:06 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:22 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@213.155.126.9] has joined #lisp 18:14:08 przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:18 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 18:15:52 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:16:22 -!- trebor_dki [~user@153.96.244.11] has quit [Quit: "[xo]=~"] 18:16:51 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:56 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@213.155.126.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:26 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 18:17:43 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:20:20 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:27 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.178.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:25:07 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 18:25:17 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:43 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:44 -!- rk[] is now known as rk[wrk] 18:37:37 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:41:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:43:27 if I want to repeat the same character many times (25), is there a format specifier for that? 18:43:30 mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.213] has joined #lisp 18:43:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.213] has quit [Changing host] 18:43:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:44:26 antonv: no, but you can (format nil "~v{~a~:p~}" 25 #\x) 18:45:27 dlowe: ~v, what it does (looking in CLHS, but haven't found yet) 18:45:31 ? 18:45:50 Using v as a format specifier prefix causes it to consume an argument for that prefix 18:46:23 oh wow, Slime/emacs is smart. It turns all the #+ stuff (e.g. #+lispworks) into comments except #+sb-thread 18:46:26 That's pretty cool 18:49:33 dlowe: unfortunately doesn't work, ~{~} works only for lists 18:49:44 sorry. ~v:{ 18:50:26 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.222] has joined #lisp 18:50:42 dlowe: unfortunately doesn't work anyway 18:51:43 (format nil "~v@{~a~:*~}" 25 #\x) 18:51:47 that works. 18:52:34 dlowe: yes, thanks 18:52:45 it is uneasy to understand that from CLHS 18:52:45 (format nil "~{~A~}" (make-list 25 :initial-element #\x)) is how I would do it. 18:53:12 More readable to me. 18:53:28 I have a macro (defmacro notmymacro (&rest args) ...). args are supposed to be some symbols. I have a list of symbols and want to use that list as the arguments for that macro. Is there a way? 18:54:00 aeth: I don't like the consing 18:54:07 aeth: I also consider an alternative to (format nil "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx~A" other-arg) 18:54:38 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.175.210.57] has joined #lisp 18:54:39 I've used it with more complicated things, too 18:56:07 dlowe: I have to do (time (dotimes (i 100000) (make-list 25 :initial-element (random 10)))) in order to get it to register a time at all. 18:56:08 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:56:10 i.e. 100,000 times. 18:56:29 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C245.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:47 We're coding for i5s and i7s, not for Lisp Machines. Consing is OK in moderation. 18:57:27 It actually says "0 bytes consed". 18:57:57 ah, the consing is in FORMAT. 18:58:11 I see, it's 100x slower when combined with FORMAT. 18:59:01 But the FORMAT line runs even more slowly for me, with more consing. 18:59:12 Very close though. 19:00:33 dlowe: Hmm, on my computer with sbcl my code runs faster. 19:00:36 WIth less consing. 19:01:55 As far as performance goes, in my (limited) experience I've found the more I do list operations, the smoother things tend to go, e.g. MAKE-LIST, MAKE-ARRAY, MAP, etc. 19:02:48 At least in sbcl. 19:03:02 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:04:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:04:49 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@chello089173065166.chello.sk] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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20:10:59 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:10 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-169-120-144.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:11:31 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:56 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:57 -!- patrickwonders_ is now known as patrickwonders 20:12:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:28 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:13:56 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 20:14:52 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03db86.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 jaimef: define "still" and define "use" after that, for yes and no are both answers that have an equal weight :) 20:15:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:59 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:16:23 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:18:16 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.106.173] has joined #lisp 20:19:53 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 20:20:05 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:21:01 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@194.47.218.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22:45 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:07 BlackWabi [~wabi@194.47.218.35] has joined #lisp 20:24:59 jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:23 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:36 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:31:05 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:23 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03db86.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:33:41 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03db86.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:20 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 20:38:07 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:39:53 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:23 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc03-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:41 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:40 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 20:47:23 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:47:59 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:35 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:49:53 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 20:53:55 -!- rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:25 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9E2EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:56:28 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:58:18 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:59:58 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-tsarqqbqzgwwktzh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:49 -!- rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:01:31 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.106.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:22 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:05:28 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.128] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:11 gmcastil [~user@97-122-163-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:33 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:08 chadhs [~textual@66.195.151.70] has joined #lisp 21:18:58 Adib [~Adib@5ED4BB74.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:19:02 -!- Adib [~Adib@5ED4BB74.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 21:27:48 Maybe I just need to step away for a bit. I hate that 'I know I did this about 6 months ago...' http://paste.lisp.org/display/141220 21:27:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:28:50 That said, if anyone has any insights, I'd love to hear them. 21:30:19 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 21:34:25 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:36 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:12 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:41:09 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:43:44 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 21:44:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:44:20 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 21:46:31 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:19 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 21:48:08 clintm: insights on what? 21:48:43 prxq: I think I got it, but http://paste.lisp.org/display/141220 . Still testing. :) 21:49:49 congratulations! but what did you get? :-) 21:52:22 baggers [~yaaic@181.21.157.120] has joined #lisp 21:53:55 prxq: Knowledge! 21:55:00 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:31 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@117.36.49.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:17 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:57:35 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 21:57:48 mihirrege [~mihirrege@gateway/tor-sasl/geremih] has joined #lisp 21:58:10 ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:58:27 -!- ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:30 -!- mihirrege [~mihirrege@gateway/tor-sasl/geremih] has left #lisp 21:59:05 ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:59:10 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-131-135.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:59:26 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@unaffiliated/rvncerr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:00:50 -!- zymurgy [~zymurgy@li607-220.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:53 -!- brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:01:00 sdemarre [~serge@216.64-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:01:48 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.106.173] has joined #lisp 22:02:11 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:33 -!- baggers [~yaaic@181.21.157.120] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 22:02:42 baggers [~yaaic@181.21.157.120] has joined #lisp 22:03:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:20 -!- baggers [~yaaic@181.21.157.120] has quit [Client Quit] 22:03:58 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 22:04:29 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:41 -!- frx [frx@78.1.182.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:42 -!- chadhs [~textual@66.195.151.70] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:05:55 frx [frx@78-1-182-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:05:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:10 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:16 rvncerr [~rvncerr@unaffiliated/rvncerr] has joined #lisp 22:06:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:33 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:07:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:07:17 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:27 zymurgy [~zymurgy@li607-220.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:53 nydel, 22:09:18 normanrichards [~textual@166.137.113.107] has joined #lisp 22:09:23 -!- d2biG is now known as dRbiG 22:09:45 KDr2 [~KDr2@117.22.203.165] has joined #lisp 22:13:05 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.156] has joined #lisp 22:13:31 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:13:52 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:20 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:17:21 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:24 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:33 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:17:45 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:20:09 seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b016:2fa4:1d49:778e:9fe8:9c14] has joined #lisp 22:21:04 InfusoElAmbulant [~nonononon@cm-188-171-10-178.telecable.es] has joined #lisp 22:22:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-194.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: fisxoj] 22:22:30 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:24:27 -!- sdemarre [~serge@216.64-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:13 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-97-227.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:32 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:38 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-97-227.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:51 -!- normanrichards [~textual@166.137.113.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:27:34 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03db86.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 22:28:01 I'm on the train and don't have access to my books - if I have a struct FOO, is the type specifier for a list of FOO (LIST FOO)? 22:28:58 -!- zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has left #lisp 22:29:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:04 -!- ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:08 there isn't such a thing 22:30:55 ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:30:56 Oh, ok. 22:31:04 BRB 22:31:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:31 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:35:37 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:23 seangrov` [~user@2600:1010:b016:2fa4:383b:b1df:78e7:4296] has joined #lisp 22:37:36 -!- seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b016:2fa4:1d49:778e:9fe8:9c14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:37:37 clhs string 22:37:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_string.htm 22:38:07 -!- ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:38:14 ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:39:15 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-100.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:39:51 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-154-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:40:57 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:42:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:32 clhs cons 22:42:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_cons.htm 22:42:51 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:44:21 it's possible to construct a type for any bounded-length list of type foo, right? 22:44:55 (or nil (cons foo (or nil (cons foo nil)))) 22:45:10 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:26 That is lists of length [0,2] 22:45:27 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: danlentz] 22:46:04 yeah, that kind of blows, though 22:46:11 and you mean (or null 22:46:17 yes I do 22:46:24 damn you type nil 22:48:01 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lnnmzrshxmenbekt] has joined #lisp 22:48:31 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 22:48:53 you can do recursive type definitions with satisfies, but I don't think any implementation does something smart with that 22:49:35 -!- seangrov` [~user@2600:1010:b016:2fa4:383b:b1df:78e7:4296] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:59 chadhs [~chadhs@66.195.151.70] has joined #lisp 22:52:14 -!- InfusoElAmbulant [~nonononon@cm-188-171-10-178.telecable.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:52:37 ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:52:39 seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b016:2fa4:383b:b1df:78e7:4296] has joined #lisp 22:53:35 climacs still functional? 22:53:54 same as ever :) 22:54:00 debugger invoked on a SB-BSD-SOCKETS:HOST-NOT-FOUND-ERROR in thread;; when using it from ql 22:54:04 (as in: not really) 22:54:08 :D 22:54:18 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:29 tbh, I've only tried running it briefly a few times over the last few years 22:54:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:56 -!- ptcek [~petr@177.111.broadband14.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:55:57 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:52 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:29 Joreji [~thomas@183-112.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 -!- fortitud1 [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:05:03 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:09 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:33 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:43 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 23:10:43 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:02 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:12:22 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 23:13:58 atgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-211.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:14:34 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV (core dumped)] 23:14:57 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:15:46 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:5822:9b6a:df5a:ff3e] has joined #lisp 23:18:06 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:18:11 vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:50 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:23 -!- atgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-211.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:19:26 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:37 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:5822:9b6a:df5a:ff3e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:22:19 ASau [~user@p54AFEC53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:23:24 -!- mal___ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:23:31 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@194.47.218.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:23:49 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:39 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:42 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:43 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 23:27:04 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-76-58.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 23:29:41 -!- tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:34:22 -!- chadhs [~chadhs@66.195.151.70] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:34:57 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:54 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:41:00 prim [~otaku@unaffiliated/prim] has joined #lisp 23:42:46 -!- jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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