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Any 01:33:23 suggestions? 01:34:38 <_death> ironclad 01:36:31 Does ironclad supports signing and verifying messages for RSA? It looked like it only supports DSA. 01:37:09 ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzagpzwtwpratfit] has joined #lisp 01:37:55 nihils [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03dd1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:07 <_death> could implement that yourself 01:40:26 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d0263bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:41:28 Right. Maybe I should have asked: Has someone already implemented a crypto package that supports RSA? 01:42:10 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:27 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:30 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:35 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:38 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 01:50:02 -!- antonv is now known as Guest42160 01:50:12 -!- Guest42160 [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Client Quit] 01:50:36 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:54:37 vince`, don't implement crypto yourself if you're actually going to use it. oO 01:54:57 vince`, find some library you'd tust. 01:55:11 Exactly. Any suggestions? 01:55:16 -!- arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:39 -!- ari__ [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:02 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-134-158.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:56:08 -!- nihils [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03dd1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:57:06 NaCl looked nice, but I don't know of any warpper for it, sorry. 01:57:11 antonv` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 01:57:22 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:57:55 -!- antonv` [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:57 But I suspect there is something around openssl ... 01:58:12 antonv` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 01:58:55 CL+SSL? 01:59:04 <_death> nacl was superceded by sodium.. there's also nettle 02:00:14 -!- pjb` [~t@90.24.130.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:00:24 Is sodim a Lisp library? 02:00:41 <_death> no, you'd have to write/find bindings for it 02:01:05 What about nettle? 02:01:09 <_death> same 02:01:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 02:03:02 <_death> but if you liked the "don't implement it yourself (trust some other guy's code)" mantra, then it's likely that you should follow that advice.. sleepytime. 02:04:03 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-134-158.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04:36 I'm all for "don't redo something that has already be done (in a better way)". 02:04:48 Has anyone tried GPGME? 02:05:36 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:39 vibs2 [~zorro@host86-140-88-234.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:34 rsdoiel [~rsdoiel@cpe-76-170-171-69.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:51 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 02:13:57 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:59 _death, I know that's far from optimal, but in this field there's much one can mess up quite easily, e.g. randomness, timing attacks ... So getting something in a working state sadly doesn't mean it's also secure. 02:15:40 -!- rsdoiel [~rsdoiel@cpe-76-170-171-69.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:15:52 andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:15:56 jfe [~jfe@ool-18bfe1b7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:54 Is there a format directive for printing a long list three elements per line? 02:22:27 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:23:10 ~{~3@{~a ~}~%~} 02:23:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Client Quit] 02:24:08 /set stamp_text 1 02:26:06 stassats: Thanks - I came up with (CL:FORMAT CL:T "~{~5a ~^~5a ~^~5a~%~}" '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11)) 02:26:26 What does the number do? 02:27:31 in ~3@{ 02:27:58 if only there were some sort of a reference 02:28:23 Hitler was literate. 02:28:52 p9f [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:05 Apparently the references I was using are incomplete. 02:29:11 And FORMAT has a lot more than I thought. 02:29:40 clhs ~{ 02:29:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgd.htm 02:36:40 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:37:01 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:06 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 02:47:00 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225178015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f65180.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:53:34 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:13 -!- effy_ is now known as effy 02:57:53 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCAC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:02 prxq [~mommer@x2f6c049.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 03:01:34 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:b553:98a6:6ba0:602b] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:03:03 echo-area [~user@182.92.253.6] has joined #lisp 03:04:46 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:52 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:54 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:21 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 03:10:55 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:38 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:13:31 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:58 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 03:19:08 kanru` [~kanru@114-32-24-38.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:27:42 -!- jfe [~jfe@ool-18bfe1b7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 03:31:11 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:26 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:53 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:33:43 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:41 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-212-69.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:36:50 Good morning everyone! 03:36:55 Hello beach. 03:37:24 Hey nyef. What are you working on these days? 03:37:33 SBCL/SPARC. /-: 03:38:01 Great! 03:38:20 On the other paw, I'm hoping to have that put back to bed tomorrow. 03:38:35 At which point it's back to SBCL/ARM. 03:38:46 And then maybe, MAYBE nq-clim. 03:39:03 Good projects, it seems. 03:39:19 ... morning? 03:39:23 Jesus, I should go to bed 03:39:28 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.38.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:44 Yeah, it's coming close to 23:00 here. 03:39:48 p_l: How did the exam go? 03:40:15 beach: I sincerely hope I pass. I don't hope for more 03:40:29 p_l: Let us know. 03:40:32 heh 03:40:44 My MSci at least should allow me to use *some* lisp 03:40:49 for the final project 03:41:42 p_l: Is it a one-person project? 03:42:42 fortunately yes 03:43:02 *p_l* by now got a bit disheartened about grades and things like that. It's hard to drum energy and interest when you're so disconnected from year mates that you never even knew where there was a forum they'd share news... 03:44:17 beach: I'm doing a project on data security in semantic/linked data 03:45:14 the low end is that from ontology descriptions + descriptions of which data is restricted (and how), I should get filters to place between data user and the linked databases 03:45:52 OK. Sounds interesting! 03:47:19 well, I originally planned for different direction, but I'm playing a bit towards what my supervisor can help me with 03:48:50 TBH, I'm getting a bit tired of university. I guess it's a result of essentially everyone I knew having graduated and at best being seen rarely because they do some postgraduate studies or otherwise work at uni 03:49:55 It's just one of those things you have to get over with and then move on. 03:51:44 yep 03:52:05 fortunately, my final year, then with high probability moving to another place 03:52:15 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:53 Where do you live now? 03:53:43 *beach* might have asked before, and forgot the answer :( 03:54:01 student accommodation at University of Aberdeen (nort-east scotland) 03:54:24 it's pretty annoying being probably one of the very few people over 22 in the whole building 03:55:38 as the accommodation was pretty much reserved only for first years (I got in because trying to get any place was very hard - akin to throwing money at landlords for nothing) 03:57:30 Where are you thinking of moving when it's done? 03:58:14 no idea yet. Will at least try to apply again for Google Dublin. Who knows, maybe apply to SISCOG :) 03:58:27 It's easier to know where I will be avoiding going 03:58:48 (USA, back to Poland, etc.) 03:59:42 SISCOG is in Portugal? 04:00:20 yes 04:00:50 I've read their presentation from last years ECLM, and got interested 04:02:15 I plan on working somewhere with an office. Got enough adventures for now unless it was a really interesting one :) 04:02:41 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:29 I'm at the point (in the business world) where I've realized that an office is a lousy place to get work done, but a great place for face-to-face meetings. 04:04:11 nyef: well, part that, and part "office" as in "separate place to work" compared to working from the same place as you sleep in 04:04:36 vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:47 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:36 Yeah, there is that. Having a separate "home office" makes a lot of sense, or even a separate building or whatever, but sharing office space can really, really suck. 04:07:38 at the same time, it's waay too easy to become nearly a shut-in, so that's a plus for going to office (above the psychological aspect of different context) 04:07:41 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:47 Oh, damn. My build just got far enough to indicate that I need to re-examine the whole function-calling thing again. /-: 04:08:12 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 04:08:24 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 04:10:02 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:16:34 -!- Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:22 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:26 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 04:21:55 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:18 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:34 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.118] has left #lisp 04:25:10 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:05 pinging davazp 04:26:08 BnMcGn [~ben@66.244.241.97] has joined #lisp 04:27:17 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:27:53 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:28:36 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:09 quicklisp question: it's loading an old version of the md5 library. How do I get it to download and load the version listed in the dist? 04:30:01 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:26 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 04:31:00 $ locate md5.lisp 04:31:01 /usr/lib/sbcl/sb-md5/md5.lisp 04:31:03 /usr/share/common-lisp/source/md5/md5.lisp 04:31:08 Nothing under ~/quicklisp 04:31:18 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip70-189-239-148.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:33:21 BnMcGn: (ql:quickload :md5) 04:33:37 BnMcGn: what does (ql:where-is-system "md5") return? 04:34:19 note to all programming teen boys between the ages of 14 and 16.... i am looking for a young geeky looking teen boy interested in letting a fun-loving 40 y/o guy suck him off and going surfing 04:34:36 (ql:where-is-system 'md5) 04:34:38 #P"/home/ben/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/md5-20130312-git/" 04:34:53 Now that I ran (ql:quickload :md5) 04:35:06 Had been using (ql:quickload 'md5) 04:35:16 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 04:35:22 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:35:36 It makes no difference. 04:37:06 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 04:37:08 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*uid25044@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gntqsyveocjescej 04:37:10 -!- roscareyes [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (roscareyes) 04:37:13 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 04:37:25 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 04:37:36 Now: (ql:where-is-system :md5) 04:37:38 #P"/usr/share/common-lisp/source/md5/" 04:38:26 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:38:42 BnMcGn: it's part of some distribution package system package. best to remove it. 04:38:49 ^^^ Started a new inferior-lisp. Last one seized up. Now it gives me this. 04:39:06 The /usr/share... one? 04:39:34 Yes. That's probably part of some package cl-md5 or similar, and in my experience it's better to remove and avoid common lisp distro packages. 04:39:42 Ok 04:39:54 some distros try hard and possibly get it right, but not many 04:40:18 Ubuntu, but i'm a little out of date. 04:41:31 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:42:01 -!- antonv` [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:42:54 ubuntu does not, in my experience, do a good job of packaging lisp libraries. 04:45:39 what distros would you say possibly get it right? 04:46:23 -!- vince` [~user@cpe-24-58-62-229.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:50:01 K, thanks. Working. 04:50:41 beach: btw, what are you doing these days? I rarely see you here, except at hours that suggest a more different timezone than France :) 04:50:51 -!- BnMcGn [~ben@66.244.241.97] has left #lisp 04:54:20 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:56:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:58:15 p_l: I just wake up early. It's in the family. 04:58:22 I am still in France. 04:59:04 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:59:10 heh 04:59:47 I'm more of a night owl when it comes to being awake 04:59:51 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:59:59 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:15 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00:25 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:26 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00:34 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:54 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:55 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:02 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:16:27 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:17 ggole [~ggole@203-59-174-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:26:16 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:33:59 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.93] has joined #lisp 05:34:54 leo2007 [~leo@123.119.94.210] has joined #lisp 05:35:57 oh wow sb-cga is fast. 05:35:59 oh wow 05:36:20 It reminds me of calling a C library. Except it's in Lisp. 05:37:10 -!- Vivitron`` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:33 -!- ggole [~ggole@203-59-174-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:37:55 aeth: what's usage of 'sb-cga ? 05:38:03 ggole [~ggole@203-59-174-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:38:07 Matrices. 05:38:12 Basically graphics code. 05:38:37 great 05:39:11 For example, 100,000 matrix multiplications take between 0.010 and 0.050 seconds instead of about 2.5 seconds with my obviously in no way optimized code. 05:39:37 And yeah that basically means you need to do 100000 in DOTIMES to see any time at all for it. 05:40:06 how about using maxima ? 05:40:17 Not sure. 05:40:55 not in quicklisp, so can't check. 05:41:04 4x4 matrices? 05:41:07 yes. 05:41:25 Most graphics matrices are 4x4. I'm pretty sure all are square. 05:41:36 sure sure, just wondering about non-graphics 05:42:01 something for another library, i spose. 05:43:17 According to (describe #'sb-cga:matrix) it takes in a lambda list of (M11 M12 M13 M14 M21 M22 M23 M24 M31 M32 M33 M34 M41 M42 M43 M44) 05:43:21 So looks like it's only 4x4 05:43:35 i've never heard of otherwise for 3d graphics, really. 05:50:16 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b07d:c7cc:ed04:52f8] has joined #lisp 05:50:26 3x4 is used sometimes 05:51:05 I just realized I've barely even scratched the surface of Mathematica. I spent an hour hacking together a solution for Project Euler's #66 (implementing the continued fraction hint) and then I go to the forum and this guy brute-forced it (taking advantage of Mathematica's lazy evaluation) with a one-liner: http://pastie.org/private/qaq8jbbp7mottrapa6kxsa 05:51:15 How would you do this in lisp? 05:52:12 can't say i'm fluent in mathematica, perhaps you could explain a bit 05:52:12 Er, 4x3. 05:53:05 Bike: oh it stands for computer graphics algebra. 05:53:11 that explains why it's only for 4x4 05:53:16 unsurprising 05:53:38 i mean they're pretty different algorithms. 05:54:43 bicgena: I don't know mathematica either, but is that a list comprehension being fed with the set of all positive integers? 05:54:58 White_Flame: yes 05:55:44 White_Flame: http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=66 05:56:13 it's mostly "# y ^ 2" i'm having trouble with. 05:56:29 well, and &@/ 05:56:35 &/@ rather 05:56:50 Shades of APL 05:57:56 is the '#' a substitution for the Range[1000] term? 05:58:25 would make sense to match x^2 - D*y^2 = 1 form 05:59:44 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:25 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:28 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 06:00:39 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 06:03:00 see, i'd rather ask than guess 06:03:33 -!- frx [~a@93-138-199-125.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left #lisp 06:04:20 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:04:45 Not surprisingly, using sb-cga turns my look at matrix code from taking 3.0 seconds when running 100000 times to taking 0.5 seconds, since almost all the time is spent in the matrix multiplication... hmm... 06:04:54 I guess I could've just did a faster matrix multiplication algorithm instead of using sb-cga. 06:04:59 And kept readable code :P 06:05:17 are you sure you could write faster code than cga, though? nikodemus is a pretty smart dude 06:05:24 and why reinvent thw eheel etc 06:05:38 Well, besides the matrix multiplication part I mostly just did map/reduce on vectors. 06:05:53 You see, the fewer code you yourself write, the faster it will probably be :P 06:06:28 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 06:07:13 For all the heavy optimizations, simple map seemed to run comparably fast on the vector code like normalize. 06:07:20 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:00 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:26 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 06:11:00 I'm switching to sb-cga, though, because the less the code in my program, the better for me. Also because of matrix* 06:11:21 Also because representing a matrix as a one-dimensional vector is going to cause problems at some point of complexity, probably. 06:13:25 zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 06:14:13 -!- andares_ [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:39 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:40 Oh, it also makes the REPL more useful too. 06:21:56 aeth, what is it that makes REPL more useful ? i missed the conversation 06:21:56 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-84-119-222-215.unity-media.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:21:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:26:40 Using a library that has the data-structure you are actually using, rather than making your own, i.e. that way you can actually have a printed representation of the data structure like a matrix rather than the underlying data structures you used. 06:28:33 aeth, thank you 06:29:18 aeth: It is convenient to use maxima to do math things 06:30:41 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03dd1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:05 -!- davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:06 LLKCKfan [LLKCKfan@67.213.25.150] has joined #lisp 06:31:07 v 06:31:09 Is there any natural ways to relieve pain without using herbs or weed? No drugs 06:31:22 coding lisp 06:31:46 Coding relieves pain and then *bam* suddenly 3 hours on one bug. 06:31:52 So be careful what you code. 06:32:24 LLKCKfan, you give your full attention to the pain without judging it and accepting it 06:32:33 no 06:32:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:34:39 LLKCKfan, is it RSI? 06:35:14 LLKCKfan: perfectp(n) := is(divsum(n) = 2*n)$ elegant code ? 06:35:32 why are you talking to this 06:35:50 transfer its attention to code 06:36:56 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:45 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:54 -!- zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:20 zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 06:42:14 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-153-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:42:40 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:44:14 andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 06:47:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:48:02 kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 06:48:05 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:48:28 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 06:48:36 -!- kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:45 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 06:50:00 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:02 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 06:54:15 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:55:51 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:58:02 -!- zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:28 zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 06:59:34 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:01:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:01:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:05 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 07:06:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:06:45 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.216] has joined #lisp 07:07:48 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:45 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 07:10:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:11:54 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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ZZZzzz] 08:32:13 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 08:32:22 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:31 |3b|` [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 08:34:34 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:05 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:52 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 08:35:56 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has quit [Quit: h] 08:38:09 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:38:22 jchelary_ [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:38:48 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 08:40:55 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [] 08:45:51 -!- zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:15 zansifishk [~uson@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 08:47:17 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:47:39 is there a preferred library for lexer and parser generators? 08:49:49 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-E2F74AAC.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 08:50:36 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:12 *|3b|* parses with esrap, seem to remember people talking about using cl-yacc as well 08:54:18 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:55:23 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b07d:c7cc:ed04:52f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:56:11 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.215] has joined #lisp 08:57:00 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:57:52 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.215] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:58:38 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.215] has joined #lisp 08:58:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:08 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.93] has left #lisp 09:00:01 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.215] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:00:25 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:01:17 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 09:03:01 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:03:06 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:03:10 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:03:35 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.156.234] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 09:04:20 oxum [~oxum@122.164.156.234] has joined #lisp 09:04:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-6-17.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:12 Am I allowed to add my fork of cl-charms to it's page on CLiki? 09:05:27 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:05:43 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:05:52 <|3b|> that's sort of the point of wikis, isn't it? :) 09:06:27 I see. 09:08:16 Should I refer to myself in third person? 09:10:02 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:16 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:10:19 Probably, yes. 09:10:48 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:08 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:27 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.38.87] has joined #lisp 09:12:45 liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4d0c9bc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:07 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:14 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 09:13:47 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 09:13:55 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:14:05 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:14:29 Done: http://www.cliki.net/cl-charms 09:15:05 Is everything fine? 09:15:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-155-147.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:17:21 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:17:35 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 09:17:38 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:18:32 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:18:50 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:18:56 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:04 snits [~snits@184-98-227-247.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:51 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22:27 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03dd1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:15 -!- jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:24:15 -!- jchelary_ [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:24:15 nostoi [~nostoi@6.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:58 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:11 Looks good to me. 09:29:49 OK then, thanks for help. 09:30:59 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:52 -!- andares is now known as _andares 09:42:18 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:43:49 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:52 vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:37 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz] 10:22:02 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:22:26 -!- DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #lisp 10:23:13 "We were after the Java programmers. We managed to drag a lot of them about halfway to Lisp." Rich Hickey 10:25:13 -!- zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:28 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 10:25:39 zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 10:25:46 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:26:22 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:27:27 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:04 -!- zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:32 zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 10:30:33 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 10:30:52 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:31:55 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 jchelary_ [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 nshadow [~nightshad@69.17.255.144] has joined #lisp 10:32:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.119.94.210] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 10:32:39 zenyfish: Why did you quote that? 10:33:27 antonv` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 10:34:19 beach, i was reading this > http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374 10:34:39 then i remembered this -> "We were after the C++ programmers. We managed to drag a lot of them about halfway to Lisp." Guy Steele 10:35:26 I see. 10:35:35 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:53 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:36:02 i am trying to decide the functional programming language which i will invest my time in it 10:36:23 the last contenders were haskell common lisp and clojure 10:36:37 zenyfish: Common Lisp is not particularly functional. 10:36:58 So, if that is what you are looking for, then Haskell is a better choice. 10:36:59 beach, yep multiparadigm 10:38:36 i decided to start from common lisp i will stick with my decision 10:38:44 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 10:38:53 Good choice! :) 10:39:27 Well, Common Lisp has the advantage that there is an active community of a fairly large number of people who hang out here. 10:40:03 in fact the thing that bugs me is what happened to common lisp will happen again 10:40:12 ? 10:40:23 history is repeating itself with clojure i think 10:40:33 I don't know what you mean. 10:40:41 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:06 when you google for lisp you get clojure 10:41:24 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:41:37 What do you mean by "what happened to common lisp"? 10:41:52 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE827.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:29 it becoming unpopular so it doesn't have a momentum 10:42:39 That never happened. 10:42:50 ai winter? 10:43:24 Sure, it stopped having huge US government grants and such. 10:43:33 But that can't happen again. 10:43:35 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:55 ASau [~user@p54AFE827.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:08 Because right now, there is no government support for Common Lisp. It is all run by the grassroots and a few commercial suppliers. 10:44:56 yes that is exactly what made me have a hard time choosing between clojure and lisp 10:45:11 Certainly, I don't think Common Lisp will become less popular because of some incompatible "improvement" to it. 10:45:21 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 10:45:40 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:45:59 I mean, Common Lisp is an ANSI standard with a large number of implementations. I don't think Clojure will ever reach that point. 10:46:24 ok i have a question 10:46:36 Be quick. I need to go soon. :) 10:46:45 fishkzn [~user@92.255.198.40] has joined #lisp 10:47:22 -!- jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:47:22 -!- jchelary_ [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:47:26 i decided to invest time in common lisp but i am still afraid that there will be more tools in the near future for clojure 10:47:34 will it be the case? 10:47:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:47:51 clojure tools seem newer and well maintained 10:47:58 better? 10:48:31 loz1 [~maxvel@93.100.156.89] has joined #lisp 10:49:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:49:55 I can't tell the future, but I seriously doubt that in the long run you will see more development of Clojure than of Common Lisp. 10:50:18 How much money is beach putting on there ever being another CL standard? :) 10:50:38 0 (in any currency) 10:51:00 I'd put more money on the likelihood of a Clojure standard. 10:51:19 But to be honest, my money is on Javascript. :) 10:51:24 You might be right, but I wouldn't bet on that either. 10:51:30 Sure, yeah. 10:52:01 http://vimeo.com/77004324 >>> this video by rainer joswig was what made me decide to invest in lisp 10:52:04 zenyfish: I need to go. Good luck with Common Lisp. I am sure others will answer your questions. 10:52:14 beach, thank you so much 10:52:39 In any case, learning one lisp will help with the other lisps. 10:53:05 ^yeah, I don't think you'd have much difficulty switching over if there's ever really a good reason to. 10:53:18 Plus, learning more languages is always a good idea. 10:54:27 Zhivago, Shinmera i agree 10:56:32 -!- zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:37 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 10:57:52 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 11:00:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:03:43 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 11:04:07 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Is that other peoples experience as well? I ask because I associate the "*" in the name with "special case". 16:38:07 I also ask because sometimes little things that nag me turn out to have big problems under them. 16:40:15 -!- songshuang [songshuang@183.158.129.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:16 If someone says "Nah - that's just the way it is" then I'll find that nagging little voice and squish it. 16:41:27 I find that the case where I have such cascaded bindings to be the rarer case, though not entirely uncommon. 16:41:45 let* is often just nested code rearranged with names 16:41:56 And LET itself is trivially convertible to anonymous function application, while LET* isn't. 16:42:06 Making LET the more primitive construct. 16:44:00 But in lambda lists, the preceding bindings are available to later ones. So they behave more like LET* don't they? I haven't thought this through but as in(lambda (x y &aux (z (+ x y))) ...) 16:44:37 Umm... Only works once you're past the required parameters, so no. 16:44:52 All of the bindings in a LET or LET* are "required". 16:45:14 Ok, I see that. 16:45:25 &aux binding rock by the way 16:45:27 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:02 &aux rocks occasionally, and is better replaced by an explicit LET or LET* most of the time. 16:46:23 They seemed superfluous when I first encountered them. 16:46:23 add^_ [~user@m213-101-23-176.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:46:26 Hmm, noted. 16:46:28 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4d0c9bc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:43 There is ONE known case where &AUX allows you to do something that you can't otherwise do. 16:47:59 I might be misremembering, but I think it might be something to do with BOA constructors. 16:49:01 nyef: I'm working on my garbage collector at the moment. I'm writing code that searches my entire C++ code base, extracts instance variables (struct/class field variables) and struct/class inheritance relationships and compiles garbage collector code that will fix GC pointers during the root sweep phase. 16:49:23 Clever. 16:49:34 It's interesting to me because it's a compiler that generates C++ code on just aspects of a program. 16:49:41 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:27 I'm deathly afraid of missing a root. 16:51:00 Have you experienced this? If you miss a root - and something get's GCd when it shouldn't have - is it hard to track down? 16:51:31 Yeah. 16:51:47 Typically you get a crash waaaay after the actual bad thing happened. 16:52:19 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [] 16:52:22 yes, it's for boa constructors. allows you to derive the value of two different slots from a single argument 16:54:07 Do you have any suggestions about debugging things like this? I was thinking about keeping some log of every allocation and destruction along with something to tell me what each pointer referenced when it was destructed. This would really slow things down though. 16:54:47 You could do that as a debugging mode, maybe. 16:54:55 *drmeister* thinks forewarned is four-armed (or something like that) 16:55:14 Any other suggestions? 16:55:48 You could tag each GCable pointer with information, and verify that information on access through the pointer 16:56:02 That would also be extremely expensive: only suitable for a debugging mode. 16:56:41 I've written one smart-pointer based c++ gc, and didn't find it that annoying to debug missing roots 16:57:28 one part was indeed spending a bit in each object for info on "has this already been deallocted"? not that expensive 16:57:41 IE, gcptr->foo would iterate the root set and verify that gcptr was in it. 16:58:06 I'm ok with a slow debugging mode - so long as it only by an order of magnitude. I use boost build and it allows me to compile multiple versions. I already build a release version (no C++ Dwarf info) and a debug version (loads of C++ Dwarf info). 16:58:23 and validating that there's no access to a deleted object 16:58:35 jsnell: I don't think that works for a copying generational collector, though. 16:58:44 Since deallocation is entirely implicit. 16:58:48 the second part was making sure that memory reuse would be delayed for as long as possible 16:58:59 (Of course, if you aren't using such an allocator, it may be fine.) 16:59:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 16:59:45 ggole: Copying generation collector - that's what I'm using. I can switch off the copying though - but that will change things. 17:00:21 It could obscure the bug if you do that in response to a crash. 17:01:18 for a copying collector the analogous operation would be checking whether the object currently resides in a memory area that should contain live data 17:02:14 It appears that my blood-curdling fear of missing roots is prudent rather than paranoid. 17:02:46 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-47-253.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:04 the point is mainly to crash immediately when you detect something is wrong, and making sure the evidence hasn't been yet overwritten, so that you can do some forensic analysis 17:03:09 jsnell: hmm, that's a partial check. The unupdated root may simply point to the wrong object. 17:03:11 I feel better about spending the last month writing C++ refactoring tools to search out and generate GC code automatically. 17:03:37 You could probably check to see that it points to the front of an object, though. 17:04:29 ggole: like I said, you delay memory reuse as long as possible. easy for any kind of copying collector 17:05:02 Ah, now I see what you're getting at. Yes, that would be more effective. 17:05:51 The two things that caused me a lot of grief with SBCL's GC on PPC were garbage in the roots and missing roots. I wound up having to desk-check and then repair the affected parts of the system, which was only really possible because I had such a small, known scope to work with. 17:14:52 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:55 Got it: Thank you very much ggole, jsnell and nyef 17:27:40 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 17:28:10 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has joined #lisp 17:28:10 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has quit [Changing host] 17:28:10 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:18 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:02 hjgfytdytrt [~MyStartx@86.124.218.23] has joined #lisp 17:37:04 vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:01 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:10 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:09:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:09:48 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:12:27 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:35 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:25 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:09 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:17:59 -!- hjgfytdytrt [~MyStartx@86.124.218.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:19:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:32 meiji11` [~user@75.158.41.148] has joined #lisp 18:21:20 is not generally possible to include a compound type specializer in a defmethod lambda list? 18:21:41 s/is not/is it not 18:22:09 Defmethod lambda list type specifiers may be class names or EQL specializers. 18:22:24 but not compound specializers like (or class-1 class-2) ? 18:22:30 Anything beyond that is implementation specific at best. 18:22:38 ok. thanks. 18:22:50 If you want a compound like that, introduce a common superclass? 18:24:46 Is there a command in emacs to move point to the first character of the current top level sexp? Or to move point from the current top-level sexp to the previous and next ones? I know how to move around the current level sexps. 18:24:48 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:56 I have one already, but I'm not sure that will allow what I want to do. there's a generic function with methods specialized on class-1 and class-2, that I want to call from within the other generic function. 18:25:01 drmeister: Yeah, hang on. 18:25:11 can't hurt to try, I suppose. 18:25:30 drmeister: BEGINNING-OF-DEFUN maybe? 18:26:00 That's the ticket - thanks! 18:26:29 Just ran into it again earlier today, when I was looking for some old code I had for debugging a particular aspect of SBCL. 18:27:59 Hmm. Is there some way to influence where slime jumps when looking for the function definition of a call from within CL? 18:28:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:29:02 Shinmera: "Influence" in what sense? 18:29:05 I have a function that delegates depending on a variable and would like slime to jump to the current "implementation" rather than the definition of the delegator function. 18:29:52 As in, the function being used is a wrapper and I'd like slime to jump to the current implementation of the wrapper rather than the wrapper definition. 18:29:52 ... that, I have no clue about, I'm afraid. 18:30:21 Ah well, it's only a nicety in any case. 18:34:01 -!- phad_ is now known as nshadow 18:34:26 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.47.9.158] has joined #lisp 18:34:28 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:17 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.215] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-47-253.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:38:10 LLKCKfan [~LLckfan2@67.213.25.150] has joined #lisp 18:38:33 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:39:25 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 18:40:31 -!- Pinkyman [~harryw@87.117.251.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:32 Hello 18:40:33 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:40:34 Is there any natural ways to relieve pain without using herbs or weed? No drugs 18:41:39 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 LLCKKfan: You are in the wrong forum. 18:42:20 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:26 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-tfyziozpzqyedfjh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:49:27 alantsang [~alantsang@n119237178086.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:20 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kmcgfetwemibtzxw] has joined #lisp 18:53:24 harryw [~harryw@87.117.251.51] has joined #lisp 18:54:00 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9C173.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:24 -!- KarlDscc is now known as Guest12316 18:54:39 -!- Guest12316 [~localhost@p5DD9C173.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55:33 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC0F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:56:33 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.15.18] has joined #lisp 18:57:23 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:17 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:58:34 zenyfish` [~user@212.252.119.160] has joined #lisp 19:00:00 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:23 -!- alantsang [~alantsang@n119237178086.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:01:16 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:29 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:01:44 drmeister, i think he is spamming i saw him asking the same question 19:01:48 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:02:29 Not spamming 19:02:32 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-197-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-53-84.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:15 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 19:05:18 Well LLKCKfan - if you are not a bot - this is a forum for discussing the programming language Common Lisp. 19:06:37 -!- LLKCKfan [~LLckfan2@67.213.25.150] has left #lisp 19:10:33 logand` [~user@g226038224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:29 Has anyone made any demo videos on YouTube? I'd like to demonstrate this C++ refactoring tool in a video where I have an emacs window up with two frames, one that contains the source for the refactoring tool that I'm writing and the other an *inferior-lisp* window. 19:14:44 Any suggestions on software for recording the video and my voice-over? 19:14:45 -!- logand [~user@g226038002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:15:36 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:16:32 drmeister: do you use a mac? 19:16:43 I should have mentioned that - yes I use a mac. 19:17:37 drmeister: quicktime has a screen recording mode 19:17:42 it is built-in 19:18:14 it's the only one i ever used and it works ok 19:21:03 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:20 Do you have any suggestions for Linux users? (Aside from the obvious one of "buy a mac", that is.) 19:25:35 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:19 LLCKKfan: no 19:27:16 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:27:42 -!- ggole [~ggole@203-59-174-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:29:19 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:29:45 Ha - that was fun. My little girl (9) plays around making minecraft videos. She showed me quicktime and iMovie - the student becomes the teacher. 19:30:19 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.15.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:27 Xach: Do you have any recommendations on what resolution to use? 19:30:34 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.12.121] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 Wait, I can google that one. 19:30:44 nyef: you can do it through ffmpeg or vlc, though the former works better. Otherwise I've used simplescreenrecorder, which works quite well. ( http://www.maartenbaert.be/simplescreenrecorder/ ) 19:33:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-65-199.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 19:41:18 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.12.121] has quit [Quit: h] 19:42:06 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.12.121] has joined #lisp 19:42:24 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 19:43:35 tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@24-158-53-204.dhcp.hckr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:09 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:45:49 19:45:49 19:45:49 19:45:52 [Sat Feb 8 2014] 19:45:55 *** You have joined channel #lisp [20:58] 19:45:58 *** Topic for #lisp: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming 19:46:01 language . New: cl-ppcre 2.0.7, hunchentoot 19:46:05 1.2.26, flexi-streams 1.0.10, SBCL 1.1.14 19:46:08 *** #lisp: topic set by H4ns!hans@netzhansa.com, 2014-01-23 18:36:18 19:46:08 *** Users on #lisp: zenyfish` kcj Nizumzen Watcher7 harryw kirin` alantsang 19:46:10 zenyfish`: Knock it off. 19:46:11 vkrest aftersha_ LLKCKfan KDr2 askatasuna meiji11` klltkr Patzy Twipply 19:46:14 amaron mrSpec vaporatorius angavrilov arubin add^_ antonv` ehu snits 19:46:17 doomlord_ foreignFunction xan_ drmeister emma moto9 paul0 Denommus pjb 19:46:20 sellout- nichtdiebohne LiamH gravicappa nightfly diadara atgreen nyef Alfr 19:46:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 19:46:24 zacharias zenyfish fikusz attila_lendvai malaparte saarin loz1 mc40 19:46:27 edgar-rft zxq9 ASau nshadow Bike fantazo 19:46:27 -!- zenyfish` [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (come back after mispaste) 19:46:38 my hero. 19:46:39 I wonder what the point in that was. 19:46:42 -!- harryw is now known as Pinkyman 19:46:43 I think that's a paste gone awfully wrong and now slowly piping through. 19:46:55 I was wondering that also. 19:47:04 no its a bug in ERC i think 19:47:15 alama [~jessealam@194-166-105-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:47:29 or noob me... 19:47:47 it happens when i try to join a channel 19:47:56 iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #lisp 19:48:40 Is there anything in emacs that would highlight or change the background color of the current top-level sexp? That would be awesome! 19:48:57 i just tried to "/j #lispweb" and this is what happened 19:49:08 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-219-15.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 drmeister: font-lock-mode 19:49:18 Oh, wait, that's not quite right... 19:50:02 ... I've got nothing, I'm afraid, though it's probably possible at some level. 19:50:29 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 19:50:39 Thanks for trying. 19:51:02 Watcher7ish [~w@108.216.22.50] has joined #lisp 19:51:34 zenyfish: it's afaik common issue with ERC 19:52:05 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.12.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:52:17 an unwary user might endup with Emacs marking a region and setting X selection to it and then paste it by mistake 19:52:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-65-199.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:50 -!- Watcher7ish [~w@108.216.22.50] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:05 Watcher7 [~w@108.216.22.50] has joined #lisp 19:53:39 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:16 andreh_ [~andreh@177.157.112.202.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:55:25 i'd like to be able to run my lisp app as an init.d script. when i send a sigterm to it, is there any way for it to run some clean up stuff (e.g. (hunchentoot:stop)) then a (quit)? 19:56:17 What implementation? 19:56:21 Pinkyman: signal processing in lisp is as a complex matter as in any language. Some implementations provide better features than others. 19:56:22 ccl 19:56:29 Ah. Can't help you. 19:56:29 Yeah, right 19:56:42 gotchya 19:56:46 i guessed it might not be easy 19:57:05 kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has joined #lisp 19:57:28 There are some answers at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9950680/unix-signal-handling-in-common-lisp 19:57:54 Had you said SBCL, I might have been able to dig out some possibly-useful stuff, although it'd be stuff that I wrote several years ago and involved some rather tricky internals hacking. 19:59:43 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:59:46 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 in clisp too it's possible to catch unix signals meaningfully, since they're translated to lisp conditions. 20:02:59 p_l, you may be right 20:03:26 Now the problem in general is the interaction between signals and threads, and how the implementation treats threads. 20:03:43 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b07d:c7cc:ed04:52f8] has joined #lisp 20:04:10 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:04:30 vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:47 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:06:09 Another angle you might try is a prefork single-threaded web listener using a shared host socket, similar to the "unicorn" webserver setup. 20:07:37 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 20:08:04 Basically, one thread per lisp process, but multiple processes, all listening on a shared socket. It'd be hell for runtime patching of the server, but it should scale tolerably well. 20:09:26 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@177.157.112.202.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:37 Pinkyman: actually, you could do something similar: have a parent process to handle the signals, and run hunchentoot in a child process. When the parent process receives unix signals, it can sends command bytes on a pipe or socket to the child process. 20:15:45 snikkers [~snikkers@cable-217-63-82-193.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #lisp 20:16:54 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:18:53 -!- snikkers [~snikkers@cable-217-63-82-193.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:47 snikkers [~snikkers@cable-217-63-82-193.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #lisp 20:21:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:26:28 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-212-69.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 20:27:50 clapautius [~me@84.117.8.15] has joined #lisp 20:31:29 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03dd1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35:03 that would be a good challenge, i haven't dabbled with IPC much 20:35:08 For SBCL, I had some clever setup which caught SIGTERM, bounced it through the initial (REPL) thread, then triggered a principled shutdown from there. Also handled EOF on standard-input the same way. I don't think it caught SB-EXT:QUIT or whatever it was (pre-renaming), but it tried to cover as many cases as it could. 20:38:29 (Overall, it was a pretty cool setup, even if it was massively overbuilt.) 20:40:56 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@188.251.213.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:41:38 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:46 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:39 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:07 re. daemon. Isn't there anything comparable to https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-daemon/ ? 20:45:11 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:22 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03dd1b.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:09 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 killmaster [~killmaste@bl20-25-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:47:29 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:48:16 prxq: I only know of sb-daemon or sb-daemonize or whatever it's called. i think there might be something from the clack fellow too. 20:49:05 One issue would be that a lot of people prefer to run their servers with access to the REPL, so auto-starting a screen session or similar is a popular option. 20:50:26 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:09 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:53 it would of course be nice if you could have it all 20:53:55 thepreacher [~thepreach@87.112.50.91] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 ... But where would you put it? 20:55:10 can't you run a repl on a daemon? 20:55:11 enupten [~neptune@gateway/tor-sasl/enupten] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 swank & stuff 20:55:47 Has more overhead, but yeah, you can. 20:55:56 and wouldn't proper daemonization solve Pinkyman's problems? 20:57:51 brandonz_ [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:37 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 20:59:35 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:59:48 Pinkyman: that's what the coments suggest: https://github.com/nikodemus/sb-daemon/blob/master/daemon.lisp 21:00:02 at least, you could rip off the technique. 21:00:06 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:13 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:01:08 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:22 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b07d:c7cc:ed04:52f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:02:44 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:120b:2c09:19c0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:45 -!- pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-246-53.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:01 -!- brandonz_ [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:03:40 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:07:04 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 21:09:19 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@87.112.50.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:13:47 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:33 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:15:40 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:30 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 21:20:38 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:19 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 21:23:07 If you define your own error condition (def-condition no-node-error ...) Do you throw it with SIGNAL or ERROR - what's the best practice? 21:23:36 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:31 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 21:24:35 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:25:17 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:27 If it's an error condition, use ERROR. If it's a warning condition, use WARN. If it's merely informational, use SIGNAL. 21:25:40 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 21:25:57 Ah, of course. 21:27:59 That's the best way to make the source convey my intention. 21:31:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:32:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:32:35 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32:44 mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.213] has joined #lisp 21:32:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.213] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:37:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-98.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:45 n0n0 [~n0n0___@adsl-75-10-252-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:38 -!- zenyfish [~uson@212.252.119.160] has left #lisp 21:47:03 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:55 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:14 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 21:54:42 francogrex [~user@91.182.164.103] has joined #lisp 21:54:45 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:06 Hi I am having a bit of a cffi problem with sbcl 21:56:44 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-246-53.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:57:08 -!- pjb is now known as Guest22124 21:57:48 -!- Guest22124 is now known as pjb` 21:57:49 (cffi:load-foreign-library "C:/ocilib/lib32/ocilibw.dll") , (cffi:defcfun ("OCI_ErrorGetString" %error-get-string) :string (err :pointer)) => debugger invoked on a UNDEFINED-ALIEN-ERROR: Undefined alien: "OCI_ErrorGetString" , Starting a select(2) without a timeout while interrupts are disabled. and then hangs 21:58:09 -!- soggybread [~booblik@ppp91-76-131-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:58:20 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 21:58:29 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 21:59:27 in compiling a c program in gcc however is ok but I call like that: gcc fetch.c -o fetch -O2 -Wall -DOCI_CHARSET_ANSI -DOCI_IMPORT_RUNTIME -DOCI_API=__stdcall -"LC:/ocilib/lib32" -lociliba -locilibw -locilibm ; do you think there is a way to get it right in cffi? 22:00:21 Well, the first thing to check is the actual exports list in the DLL. 22:00:29 ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip70-189-239-148.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:48 Also, the C compiler is probably linking against a static library that contains the actual linkage information for bringing in the DLL and thus could in principle use entirely different symbol names for each side. 22:02:10 Or there could be C preprocessor macros involved. 22:02:11 ok; 22:02:21 That's a start for a list of things to check. 22:02:29 i will check the exported functions 22:05:57 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.47.9.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:07:58 nyef you're great! the exported function had different syntax... 22:08:39 it's _OCI_ErrorGetStatement@4, I will beat up the guy who wrote the lisp program 22:08:42 davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:12:44 Yeah, that looks li... wait. WTF? That's not right. 22:13:02 why not? 22:13:14 STDCALL entries in DLLs usually have the @nn for the number of parameter bytes, but not a leading underscore. 22:14:57 well... 22:22:11 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:24:32 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.164.103] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:27:28 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.47.9.158] has joined #lisp 22:30:51 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@e179047251.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:32:27 Alfr [~Unknown@g226038165.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:53 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:39 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.47.9.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:34 -!- add^_ [~user@m213-101-23-176.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:36:09 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:38:37 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:43 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:34 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:49 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:44:13 jchelary_ [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:44:49 -!- enupten [~neptune@gateway/tor-sasl/enupten] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:39 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:43 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 22:56:17 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:56:20 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:56:56 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:02:45 andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:03:32 -!- kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:38 -!- jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:03:38 -!- jchelary_ [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:05:20 I'm incorporating the Ravenbrook Memory Pool System garbage collector (for anyone new here). 23:05:38 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:ec3a:b855:4788:4dc8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:06:15 I don't see any way to create a safe-point or a guard where I can say suppress_gc(); do something dangerous; enable_gc() 23:06:16 -!- antonv` is now known as antonv 23:06:25 Every GC system needs something like that - correct? 23:07:44 The only person I know who has used MPS extensively is brucem - who isn't online at the moment. 23:09:07 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:09:19 I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for is called - a lock? a safe-point? 23:10:03 pretty sure 'lock' is more general 23:10:45 There's plenty of discussion about locks in the MPS documentation - but it all seems related to threads. I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for. 23:10:54 right, that would be a thread thing 23:12:27 i don't know mps but i remember there being an MPS_FIX macro? that relevant? 23:12:29 It's one big thing about MPS that I don't yet understand - how do you control when it activates? They make a big deal about it being multithreaded - I want to run it in a single threaded mode. 23:13:16 Bike: I'm pretty sure that's not it. That is the macro/functionality that one uses to fix individual pointers as roots. 23:13:27 That one I know a lot about. 23:14:02 i mean, i thought the way it went was, you did MPS_FIX(), then did rootfixy stuff, and then unfixed and kept going? 23:15:33 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 23:18:40 I'm not sure what you mean. There are the MPS_FIX1, MPS_FIX2 and MPS_FIX12 macros that fix individual pointers. There's the mps_fix function that is called from within the scanning function. 23:18:41 drmeister: basically, what you want, is to prevent allocation and movement of memory while you do something dangerous. Therefore you could implement suppress_gc() by having making sure in all the functions that allocate memory (cons, make-array, etc), and all functions that objects in memory (the garbage collector), test for a mutex and lock until enable_gc is called. 23:19:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:19:15 Of course, if you only have one thread, then the question is mute. 23:19:39 pjb: I'm wrapping the dangerous stuff in dummy SUPPRESS_GC() and ENABLE_GC() macros for now 23:19:51 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:21:04 pjb: Good point about one thread - question is moot. Except I think the MPS system can invoke the GC during an allocation. But I'm not doing allocations in my dangerous code - so you are correct - it is moot. 23:21:17 On the other hand, I guess that the garbage collector library manages all that. It has allocators that you call from CONS, MAKE-ARRAY, etc, doesn't it? 23:21:18 The specific case is "multiple-value return". 23:21:55 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:120b:2c09:19c0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 23:21:57 I need to fill the multiple value array and then set it's size. I don't want GC to happen when the number of multiple values and the multiple values pointers are out of sync - correct? 23:22:02 How so? How is it related? You shouldn't have to disable GC to return multiple values. 23:22:30 drmeister: the thing is that you can use a global, pre-allocated, fixed-size, multiple values array. 23:22:48 clhs multiple-values-limit 23:22:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_multip.htm 23:23:01 You just document the limit with this constant. 23:23:03 pjb: I do exactly that. 23:23:24 So why do you need to disable gc when dealing with multiple values? 23:23:25 Now that I think about it - you are correct. I don't need to worry about it. 23:24:00 drmeister: btw, isn't the example mps program, that scheme, single-threaded? 23:24:02 The mutliple value registers are not allocated on the heap, but are part of the root set. 23:24:29 I have an array (it will be thread local) of like 64 pointers for multiple values. If I return 10 values one time then there will be 10 pointers and 54 NIL values. 23:24:44 Yes. 23:24:55 You can also set a "fill pointer". 23:25:22 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 23:25:26 Notice that (values 1 nil) is different from (values 1) 23:25:38 The next time I return say 3 values - then there will be 7 old return values - but who cares. They can hang around until they are overwritten by returning more multiple values. 23:25:39 (multiple-value-list (values 1 nil)) vs. (multiple-value-list (values 1)) 23:25:51 Indeed. 23:26:06 But you might worry about collecting those values. 23:26:17 The root set should be limited by this fill-pointer. 23:26:47 (values (values 1 2 3)) 23:26:55 Yeah, I was setting a fill-value for multiple-values and I thought it was dangerous if a GC happened between filling the multiple return values and setting the fill value - actually now that I think of that - it is dangerous! 23:26:58 --> 2 and 3 can be collected. 23:27:29 Wait a second (values (values 1 2 3)) is valid? What does it do? 23:27:36 Returns 1. 23:27:44 Oh thank goodness. 23:28:01 Well, when you store the MV register, the value is copied from another part that should belong to the root set, so you can store it first, and increment the MV fill pointer after. That should be safe. 23:28:07 *drmeister* breaths in and out a few times 23:28:29 Still, when using an array like this, set the fill pointer to maximum, load the values, then reset the fill pointer to the correct limit. 23:28:44 nyef: I'll do that. 23:28:48 nyef: yes, but then you shouldn't have garbage in the rest of the array. 23:29:14 It'll be a touch conservative if the GC hits while the fill pointer is high, but at any other time GC occurs, clear the "invalid" part of the array to reduce that. 23:29:32 it might be boring to reset the MV registers (values (values 1 2 3)) --> (progn (setf mv1 nil mv2 nil) mv0) seems costly. 23:29:37 pjb: I am aware, the same thing happened with SBCL/PPC purely on the control stack. 23:29:56 -!- alama [~jessealam@194-166-105-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:31:07 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.47.9.158] has joined #lisp 23:31:18 At a certain point, you look to your compiler to reduce the amount of stupidity in the generated code anyway. 23:32:00 It can help indeed. 23:34:25 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:36:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 23:38:07 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:38:51 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:45:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.183.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:27 andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:49:48 arigoins [~ari@fs5.wan.abq.citylinkwireless.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:51 ari__ [~ari@fs5.wan.abq.citylinkwireless.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:50 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 23:52:36 So I came up with a name that I like for my new Lisp implementation - I'm going to call it "Clasp". 23:53:08 there you go 23:53:28 It stands for "Common Lisp And Static type Programming" - and "clasp" summarizes the close embrace between Common Lisp and Statically typed C++/C/Objective C. 23:53:28 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 23:53:34 And LLVM-IR. 23:53:49 Anybody got a problem with that? :-) 23:54:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:54:41 I am glad it is not called clathp because I hate "jokes" of that form 23:55:18 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 23:55:31 It also fits with Clang and Cling (JIT compiled C++ developed at CERN) 23:56:04 Well, I was thinking about Clastp with a silent "t". 23:56:12 But it's just too weird. 23:56:30 i dunno, seems appropriate for organic nomenclature :p 23:57:08 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:17 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.22.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:19 ASau` [~user@p54AFFB99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:58:14 It would be a way to get the Temple University "T" in there. 23:58:47 drmeister: Are you doing research work on Common Lisp? 23:59:09 Does Clasp has a website? 23:59:22 Or a github page? 23:59:44 p_nathan: No - my day job is Nanotechnology research. Common Lisp will be a tool.