00:00:29 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFF0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:02:13 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:03:20 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 00:04:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:04:21 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 00:04:52 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:13 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 00:07:46 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:08 -!- DalekBaldwin [403abc12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.58.188.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:09:39 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:11:13 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:25 ok 00:15:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bconten] 00:15:58 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:20:30 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.164.103] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:26:43 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:05 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 00:35:03 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:35:27 -!- WarWeasle is now known as WarWeasle_moving 00:36:16 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:43 -!- WarWeasle_moving [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 00:36:50 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:89a0:7a68:3fa7:21d3] has joined #lisp 00:37:06 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:38:30 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:36 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 00:44:31 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225179151.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:46:16 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:01 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505b:1ad0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:36 ed_g [~quassel@75-164-203-227.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:41 clop2 [~jared@99-23-195-115.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:50 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:50 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:12 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:52:39 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: brb] 00:53:54 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:36 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:19 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:58:05 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 00:59:19 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 00:59:26 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 01:00:11 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.197.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:02:46 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03:49 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:04:10 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC908.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:47 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 01:06:57 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:06 g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:38 -!- g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 01:08:29 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10:04 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:14 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:06 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:30 sellout-1 [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:49 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:17:15 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:18:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.29.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:21:40 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:47 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:20 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:27:23 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:36 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 01:37:01 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.254.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:12 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 01:41:04 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 01:41:29 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:33 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:50:59 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:55:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:02 -!- Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:50 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 02:00:06 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:03:31 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:04:41 ubii_mobile [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has joined #lisp 02:06:25 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:36 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.190] has joined #lisp 02:18:07 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.15.186] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 02:26:33 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bnepgwuxesfiiejt] has joined #lisp 02:26:51 -!- Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 02:26:51 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 02:28:15 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 02:33:18 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:33:25 -!- ubii_mobile [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:37 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:56 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:44:02 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f65180.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:47:30 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f69235.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:52:08 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:10 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.167.36] has joined #lisp 02:54:07 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:23 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:54:44 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:56 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:19 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:03:52 Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has joined #lisp 03:06:51 gko_ [d315898b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.211.21.137.139] has joined #lisp 03:07:04 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has joined #lisp 03:07:20 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.167.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:08:10 mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:19 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.167.36] has joined #lisp 03:08:27 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:89a0:7a68:3fa7:21d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:12:26 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:12:33 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 03:16:02 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has joined #lisp 03:16:02 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has quit [Changing host] 03:16:02 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 03:16:07 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:06 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 03:23:21 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:32:31 davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:01 -!- rk[wrk] is now known as rk[notwrk] 03:40:52 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:32 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:51:18 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:51:50 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 03:54:47 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:38 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:18 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:21 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 04:00:59 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:03:19 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:07 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 04:12:34 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:17:55 -!- rk[notwrk] is now known as ryankarason 04:19:00 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch786@ne102616l.eng.utoledo.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:21:49 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 04:27:55 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:35:32 n0n0 [~n0n0___@75.144.20.73] has joined #lisp 04:44:10 boian [~boian@5.53.168.6] has joined #lisp 04:47:32 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:05 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:05:07 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:07 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@bl6-118-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:07:11 leo2007 [~leo@123.119.94.210] has joined #lisp 05:07:28 ggole [~ggole@106-68-181-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:17:15 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-219-15.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:12 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:16 cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 05:19:54 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:21:36 alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:28:17 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 05:28:34 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:06 -!- Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:31:53 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37:08 can I give a package a nickname exclusive to another package that is using it? something akin to python's "import module as nickname"? 05:37:24 with the nonstandard package-local-nicknames 05:39:10 kushal [~kdas@106.66.124.74] has joined #lisp 05:39:18 -!- kushal [~kdas@106.66.124.74] has quit [Changing host] 05:39:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:40:02 that does sound sketchy 05:40:51 -!- ASau` [~user@p54AFE9F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:10 I'm getting tired of prefixing internal symbols when I have a separate test package 05:42:41 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 05:43:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:43:18 ASau` [~user@p54AFE9F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:45:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: term term term, wei wei] 05:45:57 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 05:48:44 sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 05:50:04 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.167.36] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 05:51:18 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:52:45 ubii [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has joined #lisp 05:52:45 -!- ubii [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has quit [Changing host] 05:52:45 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 06:01:30 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:32 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:51 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 06:02:34 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-176-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:42 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-253-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:05:39 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 06:06:31 -!- boian [~boian@5.53.168.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:06:31 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:12:14 malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has joined #lisp 06:12:57 Has anybody used Edi Weitz's "Regex Coach"? 06:13:33 As a learning project I was thinking it would be cool to duplicate that functionality. 06:14:21 But I can't get my head around how it instantly updates from the users input. Usually in something like a REPL, you press enter, then it reads and evaluates. 06:14:44 (Regex Coach is closed source (I think) so it's kinda hard to figure it out) 06:15:06 Regex Coach just takes the current input and starts evaluating... kinda cool. 06:15:53 usually systems like that evaluate the entire string on every keystroke. It's quite common 06:16:10 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:28 White_Flame: ah, interesting. When you say 'it's quite common' could you point me to other examples? 06:16:44 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:44 web browser's input bar? 06:16:57 many sites that have suggestions as you type 06:17:08 form field validation 06:17:12 etc 06:17:17 White_Flame: oh, of course! 06:18:25 The other thing I was wondering is if there were language theoretic reasons why this might work with Regex and not higher-level languages. 06:18:56 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 06:19:32 White_Flame: Thanks. That application was not obvious to my brain at this time :-) 06:20:14 regex has no side effects 06:20:29 Code can have effects, so evaluating it is not something that should be done continuously 06:20:51 A pure restricted subset of a language could be evaluated in such a way, I guess. 06:21:18 and most other languages would give syntax errors until an entire statement is completed 06:21:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.119.94.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:23:59 I was imagining something like this for Bash would be a total killer... continuous feedback as you learn :-) 06:24:27 <|3b|> doesn't light table or whatever it is do that sort of thing? 06:24:36 |3b|: really! 06:24:44 |3b|: I must check that out. 06:25:32 Thankyou everybody for your thoughts about my admittedly vague ideas :-) 06:25:39 Bret Victor has also suggested similar tools 06:25:48 You might find his talks interesting 06:26:22 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:29:06 ggole: ah yes! Thanks for reminding me about that. 06:29:25 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:30:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:34:13 -!- DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:37:59 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:41 -!- davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-153-233-157.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:48:37 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bnepgwuxesfiiejt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:50:11 alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:52:31 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:53:33 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@75.144.20.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:55:27 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:57:33 oxum [~oxum@122.164.171.6] has joined #lisp 07:02:36 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 07:03:22 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:03:35 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-fytdwndorhlnpjxt] has joined #lisp 07:07:16 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:29 roscareyes [uid25044@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gntqsyveocjescej] has joined #lisp 07:13:52 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:30 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 07:14:32 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 07:15:49 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:22:41 hmm... I wonder what the best argument for using Lisp is 07:23:44 usually it's only string arguments from the commandline ;) 07:24:54 No, I mean, what should I link to if someone questions my choice of a language? (Which happens a lot.) 07:26:36 the best thing to link to would be your own project successes 07:27:44 aeth: the best way to deal with such discussions is usually to walk away :) 07:29:47 aeth: because if you're discussing with someone who does not have a clue about programming, it is not up to them to decide what tools you use, and if you're discussing with another programmer, they collect arguments in the same fashion you do and you can't win 07:29:56 aeth: unless the other guy is a php programmer 07:30:24 aeth: but then, it is questionable whether "programmer" would be the right word to use to describe that person :D 07:30:27 just kidding 07:30:30 Alternatively, I could find the most technical, difficult to read paper in arxiv.org and that could end the argument because perhaps they'd rather ignore the issue than admit they didn't read the paper. ;) 07:32:32 H4ns: I don't mind arguing on the Internet, though. Sure it's hard to "win" but at least I learn a lot by reading sources and trying to provide them as support for my arguments. 07:33:52 aeth: nothing strengthens your arguments more than actual coding :) 07:37:26 Yeah, useful running programs speak for themselves. 07:37:57 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 07:38:49 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b07d:c7cc:ed04:52f8] has joined #lisp 07:39:49 What do people generally use for profiling? 07:40:07 aeth: What platform are you on, Linux? 07:40:12 Yes. 07:40:27 aeth: With CCL, I use oprofile there. 07:41:14 I use SBCL's built-in sb-sprof 07:41:34 i often use slime-profile-package and friends for their simplicity 07:41:53 (which make use of the deterministic profiler) 07:46:23 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has quit [Quit: h] 07:46:51 Yes, I just noticed the slime one today when going through the menu. 07:46:57 There are so many options 07:47:51 aeth: try intellij idea if you think slime has many options 07:48:40 Oh, Java. Yeah, there are probably a lot of options there. 07:49:46 Some "bad" languages reply on "better tools" to complement its shortcomings! 07:50:27 H4ns: Btw I can't find a counter-argument to your argument. So I guess it is in fact an effective argument. 07:50:42 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-thyttftmgzhzcddc] has joined #lisp 07:50:54 Although probably not just code, I'm guessing documentation is also useful. 07:51:22 ndrei [~avo@6.68.7.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:19 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:53:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:33 zRecursive: Interestingly enough, the nature of Lisp means it should theoretically be able to support better tools than the tools other languages have, because of its regular syntax. 07:53:42 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-109.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:11 I would much rather write code that handles s-expressions than that handles Java syntax. 07:54:48 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:56:05 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:56:20 What should people use to generate HTML documentation pages for Lisp programs? 07:56:51 aeth: if it can be of inspiration: http://cvs.pulsar-zone.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/mmondor/mmsoftware/cl/test/advantages-of-common-lisp.txt?rev=1.7;content-type=text%2Fplain 07:56:51 aeth: that's what you want to think. then you learn that common lisp's syntax is much more complicated than that and that java is actually easier to parse, if you talk about source code :) 07:56:53 I'm probably going to write a small program completely (documentation, tests, etc.) just so I have the experience of actually *completing* something in Lisp. 07:57:52 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has joined #lisp 07:58:20 H4ns: If Java is easier to parse then why are there no Java macros? 07:59:06 aeth: because that is a different thing entirely. for macros, it is not required to parse source code, it is sufficient to have an abstraction that represents the parsed representation of code in a convenient fashion. 07:59:51 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:00:10 aeth: but the syntax of a language consitutes more than that representation of the ast. and that is where the fun starts. most languages have a bounded syntax, whereas common lisp can be extended on a syntactical level and thus is onbounded with that respect. 08:00:18 unbounded 08:00:41 phadthai: Cool, that's quite a long list. 08:02:12 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 08:04:35 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:04:42 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 08:05:09 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:31 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:47 H4ns: Ah, yes, good point. 08:07:17 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:08:48 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 08:11:13 snits [~snits@184-98-227-247.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:56 yacks [~py@122.179.37.189] has joined #lisp 08:13:57 Lisp macros don't really operate over ASTs anyway. 08:14:17 The Internet lies? :o 08:14:18 :/ 08:14:37 aeth: one issue with lisp is that there are many many fine points 08:14:43 Symbols and lists are like a layer below that. 08:14:51 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:14:54 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:15:42 IF forms are quite ast-like, but LOOP forms are far from it. 08:15:57 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:20 Well, tools also have trouble handling LOOP. For instance, emacs doesn't indent it properly. 08:16:49 It would be worse for your own loop-like macros. 08:17:21 I noticed http://www.cliki.net/iterate 08:19:15 That looks more emacs-friendly than LOOP. 08:20:10 aeth: i'd stick with loop for now. emacs deals with it properly, and it is part of the standard. 08:21:22 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-181-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:21:44 ggole [~ggole@106-68-181-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:22:06 Be sure to have (setq lisp-indent-function (function common-lisp-indent-function)) 08:22:17 aeth: The powerful macro of lisp makes it hard to develop good IDE tool like Java has 08:22:41 i.e. refactoring ,etc. 08:23:12 On the other hand, with lisp you need less hand holding refactoring tools. 08:23:48 The large Java IDEs are so effective at transforming code because they essentially contain a compiler front-end: you could do such a thing for Lisp. 08:23:54 pjb`: what does that change? 08:24:03 Arguably SLIME has gone some way along that path. 08:24:49 Just LOOP stuff? 08:25:23 aftershave_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 08:25:33 aeth: you just don't need refactoring tools when programming in lisp. 08:25:42 It is even difficult to locate the line which causes error in Lisp. 08:25:56 right. it is "you could do" or "it is not needed" :D 08:25:59 pjb`: No I mean (function common-lisp-indent-function) 08:26:43 it indents correctly LOOP. 08:26:49 ah 08:27:09 I just did M-x indent-region on a large file and nothing changed. 08:27:09 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.1] has joined #lisp 08:27:13 I guess it didn't have a LOOP 08:29:49 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 08:30:26 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:30:46 I feel it is not a good idea using macro heavily in a project ... 08:30:57 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:32:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34:32 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 08:35:14 nostoi [~nostoi@43.Red-88-27-66.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:11 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.190] has left #lisp 08:36:51 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:37:38 killmaster [~killmaste@188.251.213.221] has joined #lisp 08:42:51 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has joined #lisp 08:43:36 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:44:02 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:52:39 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:56:48 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:57:41 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-fytdwndorhlnpjxt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:02:15 amaron [~amaron@net16-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #lisp 09:04:02 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:04:22 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@43.Red-88-27-66.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:05:11 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:06:28 ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:18 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 09:14:06 -!- Vivitron`` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:34 -!- ck is now known as ck`` 09:16:01 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:20:54 shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.36.170] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 -!- shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.36.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@net16-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:22:33 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-219-15.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:23:44 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:28:08 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.192.221] has joined #lisp 09:32:58 wildharvest__ [uid17634@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lsbsbxioxiozvnjt] has joined #lisp 09:33:37 noob here, when returning nil should I backquote it? 09:33:39 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 09:33:59 Do you intend to use a comma inside of nil? 09:34:21 woops, meant quote, sorry 09:34:29 What does nil evaluate to? 09:36:23 Nil 09:36:37 So, you don't need to quote it. 09:36:56 Personally, I suggest 'nil where you want to show that you're talking about the symbol nil. 09:37:33 (As opposed to the value of type null). 09:37:41 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:11 add^_ [~user@m213-101-23-176.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 I tend to use '() when using it as an initialiser for an empty list I will later push stuff on to e.g. But it's a stylistic matter. makes no difference to the compiler. 09:38:41 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:57 That's another good point. 09:39:18 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 09:39:19 ok, thank you. in the case of a predicate, would you be referring to the symbol? 09:39:36 The value nil, I suspect. 09:39:44 Since you're indicating falseness? 09:40:03 ok. awesome. I have much to learn. 09:40:58 I came from ruby, I'm quickly realizing that everything I loved about ruby was borrowed from lisp :) 09:41:24 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:43:35 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:46:49 I never really saw the point of ruby. 09:56:26 Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has joined #lisp 09:56:30 ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 09:57:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:51 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:02:55 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 10:03:12 liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbadda3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:07:46 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:15 -!- snits [~snits@184-98-227-247.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:01 -!- malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:34 malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has joined #lisp 10:11:11 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:46 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.211.11] has joined #lisp 10:24:00 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:41 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:26:43 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 10:26:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:27:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 10:28:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:31:14 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:06 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b07d:c7cc:ed04:52f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:35:49 the point of Ruby is to bring pain and suffering into one's life, cenveniently 10:35:55 conveniently even 10:36:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:54 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:45:03 arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:39 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@156-145.192-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:48:39 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@156-145.192-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:26 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:50:14 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:120b:2c09:19c0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 10:50:20 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 10:53:27 chenjf [~chenjf@59.34.22.251] has joined #lisp 10:53:32 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:01:39 jdz: the point of Java is to bring pain and suffering into one's life, masochistically inconveniently oddly. 11:01:43 ;-) 11:01:51 -!- Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:12 programming languages: you can always find worse. 11:02:39 when using Java, one expects to suffer 11:06:11 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-54-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:47 loke_erc [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9062:b485:96b2:cbfd] has joined #lisp 11:08:39 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:10:40 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCAC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:11:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@6.68.7.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:14:38 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 11:18:18 jdz: have you seen this article about the legal definition of murder in Germany? 11:19:06 ogamita: that seems waaaay off-topic 11:19:27 well, it's murder only if the victim doesn't expect it. 11:20:34 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-226-255-00.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:20:42 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 11:22:50 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 11:23:21 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:25:53 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:31 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:28:08 -!- gko_ [d315898b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.211.21.137.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:34 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 11:31:53 -!- frx [~a@93-141-0-215.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:32:08 frx [~a@93-138-199-125.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:35:18 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-54-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:18 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:37 Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has joined #lisp 11:36:38 -!- Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 11:36:38 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 11:36:45 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 11:40:53 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:46:24 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCAC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:44 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:48:56 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.211.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:01 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-37-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:51:23 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-37-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:16 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:57:36 loke_erc` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:b8bd:fa7f:5921:4f7e] has joined #lisp 11:59:39 -!- loke_erc [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9062:b485:96b2:cbfd] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:02:36 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:02:58 ndrei [~avo@37.163.244.243] has joined #lisp 12:03:02 -!- loke_erc` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:b8bd:fa7f:5921:4f7e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:03:09 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-efzzrqjxtzbbotcz] has joined #lisp 12:07:30 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:07:41 -!- ndrei [~avo@37.163.244.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:08:19 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 12:11:52 Johanso_X [~1357@124-168-76-191.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:12:00 -!- Johanso_X [~1357@124-168-76-191.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 12:12:38 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:26 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:05 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d0263bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:31 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:44 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:58 /join #clnoobs 12:23:09 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has left #lisp 12:23:13 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:23:30 loke_erc` [~user@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:27:21 ndrei [~avo@37.163.244.243] has joined #lisp 12:28:27 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has left #lisp 12:39:38 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:41:22 -!- ndrei [~avo@37.163.244.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:43:15 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:54:40 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 12:56:30 -!- arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:59:05 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d0263bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 12:59:56 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d0263bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:27 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:18 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has joined #lisp 13:04:39 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:04 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-109.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:06:59 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 13:08:29 -!- loke_erc` [~user@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:09:24 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:40 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:17:45 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:18:09 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.171.6] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:19:47 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 13:19:53 -!- marcoecc [~user@ec2-184-73-245-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:09 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:26:19 loke_ [~elias@2400:d803:7342:f91a:3c40:5408:41c5:a3c0] has joined #lisp 13:26:59 dim: are you having problems with cl-olefs? 13:27:15 I tried it quickly and it failed 13:27:23 The assertion (ZEROP #1=(LOGAND 15 OLEFS::%DUMMY)) failed with #1# = 1. 13:27:29 0: (SB-KERNEL:ASSERT-ERROR (ZEROP (LOGAND 15 OLEFS::%DUMMY)) (((LOGAND 15 OLEFS::%DUMMY) 1)) NIL NIL) 13:27:29 1: (OLEFS::READ-BIFF-XLUNICODERICHEXTENDEDSTRING #) 13:27:49 I tried with SBCL, might be important for you, as it claims to support CCL mainly (only?) 13:28:16 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 it should be portable now since fe[nl]ix last commit; the only nonportability was floating point related 13:29:05 I used whatever is the current version in Quicklisp 13:29:42 hmm, I'll need to release that library too 13:29:44 wow it's in quicklisp already:-) 13:30:10 I have 7 releases scheduled for this weekend 13:30:20 it's likely you hit not yet implemented part of the spec 13:30:41 dim: open an issue on github and I'll see what I can do 13:30:55 will do (not just now tho) 13:31:03 IIRC I used a file from http://www.insee.fr/fr/ppp/bases-de-donnees/recensement/populations-legales/france-departements.asp?annee=2011 13:31:09 (if you want to try and reproduce) 13:31:15 put that link into the issue report 13:31:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:32:04 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:32:44 will do 13:32:50 merci 13:32:56 ;-) 13:33:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:35:04 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 13:35:42 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:37:00 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 13:37:06 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:41 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:44 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:39:46 davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:38 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 13:41:46 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:03 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:45 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-37-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:45:08 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:45:51 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:39 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 13:47:24 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:49:01 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 13:51:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:39 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.37.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:49 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-6-17.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:02 vaporatorius [~vaporator@105.red-80-29-100.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:03 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:59:57 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:01:24 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 14:02:19 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:10:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:25 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:14:36 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:14:39 oxum [~oxum@122.164.156.234] has joined #lisp 14:16:25 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:18:38 -!- davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:19:29 -!- malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:32 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:20:02 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:25 malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has joined #lisp 14:21:46 bhyde: Care to glance at http://paste.lisp.org/display/141175 ? Something wrong with my Heroku setup, I'm afraid. 14:23:46 Heroku suggests I do "heroku config:add CL_IMPL={sbcl|ccl}", even if CL_IMPL appears to be set. 14:24:03 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:24:41 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbadda3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:25:31 perhaps it launch each time in a different environment. 14:25:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:26 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:28:35 davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:48 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 14:31:56 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:09 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:23 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:37:43 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:41:49 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:09 andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:48:14 imagine you are programming, and you decide to implement a new method combination 14:48:25 you want to support the no-applicable-method protocol 14:48:56 is it the method combination implentor's responsibility to implement no-applicable-method, or will that be handled by MOP functions such as compute-effective-method? 14:49:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:49:23 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 14:49:34 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCAC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:14 -!- sellout [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:51:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:52:03 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:21 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:56:56 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:57:55 Krystof: Pascal Costanza is not often here. Try on news:comp.lang.lisp 14:59:47 You never know, there might be other MOP programmers around 15:00:19 it would be a bit sad to think that he and I were the only ones left 15:00:41 jsucsy [~jsucsy@38.108.127.66] has joined #lisp 15:00:45 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-37-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:06 Krystof: the fact that no-applicable-method is not supposed to be called by the programmer suggests that it should be automatically called 15:03:38 true, though I wonder if they were thinking about method combination implementors when they wrote that 15:03:51 but that's a good point 15:05:46 -!- jsucsy [~jsucsy@38.108.127.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:05 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:32 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:51 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:10:15 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:12:27 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.38.87] has joined #lisp 15:14:32 Alfr [~Unknown@g225178015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:17:28 Krystof: It looks like it is exactly the method-combination functions in CCL that call no-applicable-method, which makes sense. I'd think that your new method-combination code will have to call it, should it find no applicable methods 15:18:57 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:00 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:37 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:57 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:30 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:46 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:46 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:23:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-194.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:23:26 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:47 fzappa [~user@204-159-77-217.fttx.luna.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:01 I remember reading a blog post on Planet Lisp advocating the use of SHARED-INITIALIZE rather than INITIALIZE-INSTANCE but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is? 15:26:28 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:26:47 -!- fzappa [~user@204-159-77-217.fttx.luna.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:54 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@105.red-80-29-100.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 15:28:17 luis: shared-initialize is useful if you use reinitialize-instance 15:30:50 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-207-223.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:53 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:39 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:53 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has joined #lisp 15:32:48 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:11 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:36 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:52 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-194.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: fisxoj] 15:34:51 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:35:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-207-223.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:29 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:41 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37:35 fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-194.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:38:08 ugh, what happened to the slime inspector? it went all read 15:39:02 *Xach* uses reinitialize-instance now 15:39:28 s/read/red/ 15:39:58 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 15:40:44 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:41:19 it suddenly started to use slime-repl-inputed-output-face instead of slime-inspector-value-face 15:42:40 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:42:40 i shouldn't have updated to this newfangled git source 15:43:14 it can only end in tears 15:43:19 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:51 -!- atgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-211.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:54 -!- sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:45:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:39 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:48 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 15:49:38 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has joined #lisp 15:50:57 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:51:11 fe[nl]ix: yes, I know. 15:52:15 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:36 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:31 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:11 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:54:20 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:35 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:42 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:35 Hi luis 15:55:51 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:03 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:19 hey LiamH 15:56:21 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:53 loke_erc` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:1580:5663:78d2:b32f] has joined #lisp 15:57:44 I noticed foreign-funcall macroexpands into type class objects, it bothers me a bit. 15:57:49 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:01 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 15:59:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:01:45 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:03:24 For most (of the built-in) types the type objects will go away after the expansion. 16:03:44 What types are you using? 16:03:54 luis: structs 16:04:24 It seems like the parse-type should be called at runtime, not macroexpand time, in this case. 16:04:34 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:38 dim, fe[nl]ix: reserved2 (4 bits): MUST be zero, and MUST be ignored. from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd943830%28v=office.12%29.aspx so it should be enough to remove the ASSERT ZEROP in (reserved2 t :compute (assert (zerop (logand #xf %dummy)))) 16:05:19 thepreacher [~thepreach@87.112.50.91] has joined #lisp 16:05:35 open an issue please 16:05:53 luis: e.g., a macroexpansion in GSLL ends up with # in the output, and that seems wrong to me. 16:06:12 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:26 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:06:51 I would rather have it expand to (parse-type '(:struct grid:complex-double-c)). 16:07:47 fe[nl]ix: i dont have much time now but i'll try to fix it over the weekend 16:07:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:57 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 hlavaty: ok 16:10:39 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:14 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:45 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.192.221] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:13:42 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:39 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15:00 *stassats* eradicated the redness from the inspector 16:16:14 with a first slime commit in almost a year 16:17:21 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 What color this year? 16:17:52 Shouldn't it be coordinated with the color of presentations in the REPL? 16:18:18 it's the color which always was there 16:19:13 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:28 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 16:20:19 alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 sellout [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:37 -!- loke_erc` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:1580:5663:78d2:b32f] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:22:50 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:28 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has joined #lisp 16:27:21 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:35 half the male population is color blind in some way, so... 16:29:07 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@87.112.50.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:14 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:30:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:06 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 16:32:12 LiamH: why is it wrong? IIRC, if the object ends up in a fasl it'll be serialised with UNPARSE-TYPE then back with PARSE-TYPE at LOAD-TIME, which is definitely better than doing it at runtime. 16:33:40 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:34:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:00 luis: OK, I assumed there was a make-load-form or something defined, because it always works for me. Sometimes I macroexpand, manually fiddle with things, and compile, and of course that does not work in this case unless I replace the unreadable object. 16:37:42 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 16:37:54 dim: so one wonder why female paint their faces like that! 16:37:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:37:59 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:10 novochar [~dan@unaffiliated/novodinia] has joined #lisp 16:38:17 signaling other women? 16:38:22 How do you reason about ASTs? I've heard that a lot of lispers can reason about their software's AST more easily. 16:38:24 Is it drinking time already? 16:39:19 marcoecc [~user@ec2-184-73-245-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:43 it's always drinking time... somewhere... ;-) 16:39:48 -!- marcoecc is now known as Guest57197 16:39:58 The week end is close. 16:40:12 pjb is less sensible than usual. 16:41:18 -!- Guest57197 [~user@ec2-184-73-245-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:21 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:53 novochar: in some circumstances you just look at its components and make decisions. 16:43:23 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:28 LiamH: yes, there is a MAKE-LOAD-FORM somewhere. 16:44:30 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:37 LiamH: oh, I see. fiddling with the macro-expansion doesn't work here no. 16:45:20 LiamH: that use case is quite easy to break, though. Expanding to gensyms also breaks that sort of fiddling. 16:46:12 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:46:18 luis: C-M-% #: 16:47:14 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:28 *LiamH* needs a macroexpand-to-readable function 16:48:21 LiamH: interesting. alternatively, you could define expanders for your complex-double-type, couldn't you? 16:49:06 luis: tell me more 16:49:46 novochar: the lisp syntax is much closer to the AST than the syntax for other languages, combined with the fact that in lisp, you are expected to be able to write macros, which are just functions that manipulate ASTs means you tend to pick it up more quickly than in other languages. 16:50:05 LiamH: http://common-lisp.net/projects/cffi/manual/html_node/Optimizing-Type-Translators.html#Optimizing-Type-Translators 16:50:24 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 16:51:02 novochar: I would say in general "how do you reason about X" is answered by "Well I spent a lot of time working with X and have built up an intuition" 16:52:14 luis: Interesting. I'll have to think about how that would be helpful in this case. 16:54:22 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 16:54:42 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 16:55:49 -!- malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:12 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:57:54 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 16:57:54 malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 16:59:54 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:00:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:03:05 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-37-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:03:15 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-37-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:43 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-thyttftmgzhzcddc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:07 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:05:56 -!- cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 17:06:20 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 intuition is not reasoning. 17:08:12 To reason, you need to find the axioms and the inference rules. 17:09:17 -!- novochar [~dan@unaffiliated/novodinia] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:21 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-212-69.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:10:37 Good evening everyone! 17:10:37 beach, memo from |3b|: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/the-defclass-macro.html has markup in the title 17:11:01 |3b|: Thanks. Fixed it already! 17:11:49 Krystof: I think the discriminating function should call NO-APPLICABLE-METHOD rather than calling COMPUTE-EFFECTIVE-METHOD with an empty list. 17:13:04 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13:29 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:57 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.139] has joined #lisp 17:15:14 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:11 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:36 sellout [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:00 -!- sellout is now known as Guest63960 17:17:17 -!- Guest63960 is now known as sellout- 17:18:30 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:19:41 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:52 sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-efzzrqjxtzbbotcz] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:21:05 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:15 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:23:25 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:18 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:27 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:15 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:44 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 17:29:43 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:30:17 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:20 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:30:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32:11 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:45 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:11 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has joined #lisp 17:36:15 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:17 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:37:46 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.19.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:43 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #lisp 17:39:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:39:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:43 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:01 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:41:28 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:26 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 17:42:35 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:54 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 17:43:19 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:45 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:46:08 capitaomorte [~user@a81-84-241-129.static.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:46:38 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has left #lisp 17:46:58 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:31 sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:54:42 -!- capitaomorte [~user@a81-84-241-129.static.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:04 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:57:52 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:37 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:59 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:26 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:01:40 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:11 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:41 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:42 Fare [~tunes@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:01 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:06 -!- Fare is now known as Guest57230 18:03:34 -!- Guest57230 is now known as FareWell 18:04:19 -!- sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04:32 sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 18:05:36 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:06:45 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 18:07:30 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:01 -!- malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:26 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@62-212-15.connect.netcom.no] has left #lisp 18:10:28 malaparte [~malaparte@gateway/tor-sasl/malaparte] has joined #lisp 18:12:52 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:13:38 wbooze [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-153-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:46 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 18:13:50 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-253-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:36 -!- wbooze is now known as oleo 18:18:14 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:48 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:14 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has joined #lisp 18:22:34 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:10 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:23:55 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:24:02 jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has joined #lisp 18:26:26 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:35 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.252.85.81] has joined #lisp 18:27:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27:18 -!- sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:38 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:29:52 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:43 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 18:31:07 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:26 sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 18:31:26 -!- sharkz [r02922070@linux7.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 18:32:38 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:32:57 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 18:34:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:08 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:36:56 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-219-15.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:37 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:44 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:31 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-212-69.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 18:39:47 effy_ [~x@222.131.154.46] has joined #lisp 18:42:06 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 -!- effy [~x@114.253.32.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:45:29 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@117.22.152.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:49 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:51:14 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.252.85.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:27 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 18:52:44 innertracks [~Thunderbi@ip-64-134-142-77.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:46 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54:57 andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:55:17 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 18:56:04 -!- davazp [~user@221.Red-79-153-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:40 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 18:58:01 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.252.85.81] has joined #lisp 18:59:34 -!- FareWell [~tunes@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:43 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.182.248] has joined #lisp 19:01:06 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:02:48 pnpuff [~LaB6@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:03:36 -!- jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:31 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has joined #lisp 19:05:42 cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 19:05:54 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:30 -!- cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:53 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:13 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:10:38 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:11:46 -!- pnpuff [~LaB6@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:12:32 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 19:14:33 FareWell [~tunes@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:35 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.129.8.196] has joined #lisp 19:14:35 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.129.8.196] has quit [Changing host] 19:14:35 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:15:10 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:03 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:19:44 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-181-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:21:33 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:24:04 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 19:24:20 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:41 rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:41 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:25:41 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 19:25:56 francogrex [~user@91.182.164.103] has joined #lisp 19:27:13 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:28:43 izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has joined #lisp 19:30:22 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 19:32:01 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:53 andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:40:03 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ajutohykfjipatrf] has joined #lisp 19:40:52 ejbs [~user@h87-96-182-73.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:26 Hi all, anything new and exciting? 19:41:51 vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:27 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:43 Hey guys. I've got a small symbol interning issue that I'm wondering how to deal with. Macro is defined in package A and generates some function X and I use it in package B. Now the function is defined as A::B. What should I do to avoid this? 19:45:20 ejbs: I'm not sure it's a great way to do it, but you can have your macro intern symbols into *package* while it expands 19:45:43 ejbs: you shouldn't do anything to avoid this 19:45:52 fortitude: Yeah, that's what I was thinking 19:46:08 you have to do something extra to make it fail 19:46:13 Vivitron`` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:40 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:46:43 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 19:47:07 stassats: Why's that? I mean, if I have some macro that in turn generates a DEFCLASS-form with some accessors defined and I can only access those accessors through the package in which the macro is defined, isn't that kind of unexpected? 19:47:36 it is unexpected, but you made it behave so yourself 19:48:09 ejbs: lisp gives you all the control of symbols and package. Be aware! 19:48:58 stassats: Yeah, and I'm pretty much asking how to *not* make it behave like that :-) 19:49:18 beach / billstclair -- would you like to fight it out? :-) 19:49:25 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:49:25 ejbs: is the name of those accessors fixed, or generated? 19:49:43 ejbs: easy, do not do what you're doing, i can't provide more details, since i have no idea what you are doing 19:49:52 Fixed name -> export it from the package of the macro. Generated -> intern it in the current *package*. 19:50:43 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:64bd:ea99:5fbb:507d] has joined #lisp 19:50:55 ejbs: 1) have it take the name of the function to define 19:51:03 ejbs: perhaps a lisp paste would be in order. 19:51:18 e.g. (defmacro make-some-function (foo) `(defun ,foo ...)) 19:51:20 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:51:41 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 19:51:49 ejbs: I think it's bad form to explicitly intern a symbol in someone elses package unless absolutely necessary 19:51:59 Krystof: I won't fight about it. You'll have to try your code, with and without an explicit call to no-applicable-method, and see if it signals the error when it ought to 19:52:05 pjb`: Alrighty, that's pretty much it then. That was what I was thinking but I wanted to see if there were any better ways that I had missed. stassats: Sorry for not being very detailed in my questions. jasom: Nah, the point is that the user doesn't need to do it himself 19:52:25 just (intern "NAME") will do the right thing 19:53:56 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:07 ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 -!- ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:16 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@ip-64-134-142-77.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 19:55:16 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:55:18 Thanks guys :) 19:55:33 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:39 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:56:15 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 19:56:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:39 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:17 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-155-147.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:58 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:35 -!- Adeon [~valaat@109.73.169.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:29 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:56 Adeon [~valaat@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 20:13:36 andreh [~andreh@186.213.221.177] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-194.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:17:04 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 20:17:42 andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:18:02 arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:15 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:18:16 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.13.144] has joined #lisp 20:18:20 -!- FareWell [~tunes@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:40 -!- andreh [~andreh@186.213.221.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:19:23 FareWell [~tunes@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:55 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.164.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:14 innertracks [~Thunderbi@ip-64-134-142-77.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:24 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.13.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:20 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:17 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E1CB7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:27:21 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:38 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:29:27 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:30:17 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye all, I might be back tonight, otherwise tomorrow.] 20:33:10 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:22 -!- FareWell [~tunes@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:56 andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCAC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:38 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:51 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:05 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:37 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:12 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:43:26 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 20:43:42 ejbs: is the function name built up from parameters given by the user of the macro? I've done such, where I intern the newly defined function in the SYMBOL-PACKAGE of what's been passed in 20:44:33 there is the risk of somebody passing in a CL package symbol, like LIST or something, but I've not had any problems with that in practice 20:45:10 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:33 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:48 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:46:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:46:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:47:35 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:64bd:ea99:5fbb:507d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:55 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:17 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:6900:c1a6:89cf:4a26] has joined #lisp 20:48:54 that's not really a common or a good practice 20:50:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-6-17.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:36 I keep forgetting the name of the function for selecting a subset of elements from a list that match some test. 20:51:46 clhs remove 20:51:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 20:51:53 Does anyone know what it is. 20:52:39 remove-if-not 20:53:35 I guess it's because that name just doesn't speak to me - I keep looking for "SELECT-IF" which doesn't exist. 20:53:47 Or FILTER-IF 20:53:49 yeah, I have the same problem 20:54:20 *drmeiste_* is going to make his own common lisp - with black-jack and SELECT-IF. 20:54:22 remove vs delete which is destructive (It's delete, but how am I supposed to remember it)? 20:54:44 use the thing that sits on your shoulders 20:55:00 My parrot? 20:55:02 stassats: my pet bird? 20:55:11 Jinx! 20:55:15 damn that must have been obvious 20:55:53 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@177.133.24.51.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:56:00 *drmeiste_* drmeister 20:56:06 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister 20:56:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:57:41 billstclair: I'm asking as an implementor, not as someone writing method combinations 20:58:02 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 20:58:19 closer-mop calls no-applicable-method for you, so, you can relax, as an implementor 20:58:43 grr 21:06:17 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.223] has joined #lisp 21:08:28 Has anyone used anything like inferior-lisp-mode or slime on vim? 21:08:38 ck`` [~user@aftr-37-24-144-176.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:57 I want to demo something that relies on inferior-lisp-mode in emacs to a vim user. 21:08:58 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.252.85.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:11 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:09:36 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:06 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.207.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:55 paul0 [~paul0@177.42.55.70] has joined #lisp 21:13:58 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:45 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has joined #lisp 21:17:28 drmeister: there are a couple of things that will launch a repl and let you communicate with it for vim 21:17:42 drmeister: they all suck. 21:17:44 there are a couple slime-like things. i haven't tried 'em though and i can't keep straight which one is preferred these days. 21:18:02 drmeister: then there is slimv which uses swank and it's probably the best of the batch 21:18:16 *jasom* uses evil-mode on emacs which gives you vim keybindings on emacs 21:19:20 At the least I'd like to put the cursor on an s-exp and send the top level s-exp to the repl. 21:19:36 drmeister: there are lots of half-written implementations that let you do that 21:19:51 drmeister: I think slimv is the only currently maintained one 21:20:09 I'm a 20-year vim user who switched to emacs about 3-years ago. I'm editor-ambidextrous. 21:20:26 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:29 I use emacs as my lisp ide; and vim as my text editor 21:21:37 before I found evil-mode I used to actually write my lisp code in vim and use emacs to compile run and debug 21:21:48 with evil-mode I don't need to do that. 21:22:13 But the guy I want to show this to is a vim user - so I'm looking for a vim solution. I'll try slimv. 21:23:05 Does evil-mode work well for you? One thing I don't like about emacs is I keep putting random keystrokes into files. That happens much less with vim. 21:23:45 Oh and in emacs my left pinky had to get really smart - what with the Meta and Ctrl and Shift - I'm going to award it a Ph.D. 21:24:46 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:08 vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-1.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:02 I use left thumb for meta (the "command" key on my mac kbd) 21:26:03 you don't need to be smart to get a PhD 21:27:16 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:17 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:29:02 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:6900:c1a6:89cf:4a26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:29:53 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 21:30:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:34:36 Krystof: The PhD is for it's work on "Minimizing travel time between Escape Meta Alt Control Shift and the nose while working in EMACS " - it's still typing up it's dissertation. 21:36:03 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:38:36 drmeister: I love evil-mode; I sometimes get confused whether non-text buffers default to emacs or vim mode (but you can configure that) 21:38:56 e.g. sldb has emacs key-bindings by default 21:39:10 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:39:11 but slime-repl has vim key-bindings by default 21:39:50 -!- WeirdEnthusiast [Elite6963@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-bgyffzvwjxnhfwlj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40:48 -!- sword [~sword@c-24-21-123-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:40:49 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:40:49 Hmm, sounds interesting. Since I keep my emacs configuration updated with subversion I can migrate complex set ups like that wherever I go. I'll take a look at it. 21:41:32 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:48 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:42:52 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:42:53 After 20 years of vim I think you'll quickly find that evil isn't quite enough like it 21:44:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:49 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:44:57 yeah, I used evil for a couple of days and it was just different enough to completely screw me up 21:45:04 it was easier just to learn emacs 21:46:07 evil was the first one that was close enough for me 21:46:26 and I don't think anyone has been using vim for 20 years, though I could be wrong (how old is vim anyway?) 21:46:42 23 years; damn 21:47:02 I started using vim about 17 years ago 21:47:23 Late 90s for me; I was using Oak Hill Vi prior to that 21:48:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: sigh] 21:49:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:59 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:50:06 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:51:16 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:41 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:33 ari__ [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:06 jasom: I used VI and then VIM when it came along - since 1990 when I was first introduced to Unix. 21:59:18 ranek [~konny@p508B679B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:59:23 -!- ranek [~konny@p508B679B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 22:00:57 Is there a predicate to determine if something is a type? Something that would say yes 'integer is a type but 'foobar is not when I never defined 'foobar as anything. 22:01:41 nope, unfortunately 22:02:19 -!- ejbs [~user@h87-96-182-73.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:16 drmeiste_: my first *nix experience was when I installed linux in early 2000 22:03:46 Was CP/M, Dos, Windows before that 22:05:59 (typep something type) will cause an error if type is an invalid type on most implementations 22:07:46 probably something with (ignore-errors (progn (type-operation...) t)) would work 22:08:15 expensive, but gets the job done 22:08:43 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:08:52 is (values integer) not a type specifier? 22:11:37 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-1.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:12 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:b553:98a6:6ba0:602b] has joined #lisp 22:12:15 yeah, typep and upgraded-array-element-type both don't like (values ) 22:12:44 ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip70-189-239-148.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:16 you could special-case (values and (function, just to make things as hacky as possible 22:13:36 przl [~przlrkt@p57922EF2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:16:21 There's not even a way to get a type expansion, is there? 22:16:39 no. ccl and sbcl at least have extensions for that, though. 22:17:03 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:24:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:31 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:29 -!- ck`` [~user@aftr-37-24-144-176.unity-media.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:30:16 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:33:05 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:12 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ajutohykfjipatrf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:14 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:35:18 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:35:36 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:36:32 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:41:52 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:48 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 22:50:21 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:41 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 22:52:58 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:13 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:54:29 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:36 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:09 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:36 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has joined #lisp 23:01:06 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:16 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 23:03:35 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:48 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:12:14 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: continuation lost by nuclear meltdown] 23:13:50 logand [~user@g226038002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:48 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:23:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922EF2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:25:09 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:11 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:28 -!- add^_ [~user@m213-101-23-176.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:25:48 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 23:26:12 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 23:29:21 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:57 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 23:36:37 urandom__ [~user@ip-84-119-222-215.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:50 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:09 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:43:31 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:47 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:55 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:46:31 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:17 jasom, do you like the vim modalityness in the repl? 23:48:34 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:120b:2c09:19c0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:16 ASau` [~user@p54AFE827.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp