00:00:17 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@194.Red-79-150-121.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:36 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D89F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:04:13 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 00:12:24 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 00:14:14 Jordan_ [~jordan@207-181-215-42.c3-0.hnc-ubr1.chi-hnc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:15 -!- zenoli_ is now known as zenoli 00:18:03 kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has joined #lisp 00:19:37 How do you pronounce the name "CLISP" It's Cee-Lisp right? 00:19:58 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:08 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:21:19 Not klisp like clip with a "sp" 00:22:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:23:08 Found it - http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/faq.html A.1.2.1 "see-lisp" or "sea-lisp". 00:23:11 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has joined #lisp 00:25:19 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:26:02 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:48 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:02 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:34:24 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 00:35:02 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:36:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:19 -!- kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:37:53 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:13 jleija_ [~jleija@96.26.196.193] has joined #lisp 00:51:01 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:52:09 -!- arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:53:12 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5000:5390:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:53 kris434343 [~quassel@184.75.212.250] has joined #lisp 00:54:30 sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:06 DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:15 -!- kris434343 is now known as bartbart3000 00:56:17 -!- bartbart3000 [~quassel@184.75.212.250] has left #lisp 00:58:26 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.233] has joined #lisp 00:59:52 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:01:26 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:01:55 oxum_ [~oxum@122.164.218.86] has joined #lisp 01:02:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:02:54 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:08 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.207.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:03:09 -!- oxum_ is now known as oxum 01:08:56 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:10:31 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.197.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:12:05 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.151.242] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 01:17:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:18:17 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:36 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:56 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:30 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:05 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:39 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:40:04 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 01:40:48 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 01:42:10 When I add a (break) and then use slime debugger to step through code with x (next) it shows me the source for step-form instead of the source for the form passed to step-form. Is there a fix for this? 01:46:24 arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:00 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:31 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:05 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC903.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:41 snits [~snits@184-98-227-247.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:07 ckoch786 [~ckoch786@ne102611l.eng.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 02:01:17 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:09 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:13 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:07:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:22 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:00 I have a dangerous problem with Common Lisp objects and C++ objects and how they deal with memory. I spoke about this earlier but it just bit me again. 02:19:46 1) Subclass a C++ class in Common Lisp. 2) Allocate one of those C++ derived classes in CL (call it XXX). 3) Pass a pointer to XXX to a C++ object. 4) XXX goes out of scope, 5) Call C++ code that dereferences the stale pointer 6) Lots of tears. 02:21:08 aren't you supposed to pin things you pass to foreign code? 02:21:41 or not retain things that are dynamic-extent if that's the case heh 02:21:54 oGMo: Perhaps that's what I should be doing. 02:21:57 ("XXX goes out of scope" is unclear) 02:23:01 drmeister: I think you might have a generic issue with passing CL data to foreign code underneath. All that should be checked at most is that C++ derived classes are a) pinned b) there's apropriate tracking of pointers to them (special allocation zone?) 02:23:05 (progn (let ((xxx (make-instance 'derived-from-c++-class))) (pass-to-c++-code xxx) ) (call-c++-code-that-dereferences-stale-pointer-to-xxx)) 02:23:30 assuming you have any kind of GC, then yes that will probably go boom 02:24:24 drmeister: sounds, IMO, like you need to have your GC scan C++ stack and heap as well 02:24:37 yeah good luck with that heh 02:24:43 -!- Axord [~axo@pool-173-55-135-64.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: I'm sure it's perfectly safe] 02:24:44 oGMo: I currently use reference-counting. As soon as the scope of the LET ends XXX goes poof. I'm writing a static analyzer to build a real garbage collector. 02:25:15 The C++ stack is the Common Lisp stack - there is only one stack. 02:25:26 Scanning the C++ heap will probably not be feasible. 02:25:35 it'd probably be considerably easier to just copy the object to a safe pinned area until you unpin it .. you could also mark pages pinned like SBCL (and CCL?) but that has severe issues imo 02:25:58 I think you guys are misunderstanding the issue. this has nothing to do with pinning 02:25:59 drmeister: it's actually doable, but you might have issues with false positives regarding pointers to live objects 02:26:01 drmeister: right so you just notice it right away vs later 02:26:29 it has to do with there being no knowledge of whether the C++ code is taking ownership of the pointer or not 02:27:09 jsnell: er no 02:27:29 even if you ahve the knowledge, you must make sure the GC neither collects nor moves the object (for more sophisticated GC) 02:27:44 Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.55.121] has joined #lisp 02:28:07 and if the foreign code were copying the object this wouldn't be an issue 02:28:21 drmeister: you'll need conservative GC, but yes, you can scan C++ heap (boehm afaik does that, too). Some trickery to get "tagged" pointers to classes might be doable, too 02:28:26 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has joined #lisp 02:28:39 jsnell: But pinning would solve the problem - while opening up others like keeping track of when to unpin... 02:28:47 you could implement your own allocation for C++ too i think 02:28:47 no, pinning would not solve the problem! 02:28:47 jsnell: Wouldn't it? 02:29:13 because this is a question of lifecycle, not location 02:29:19 drmeister: the problem is that you do not know if the object is still live 02:29:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:50 jsnell: pinned objects aren't collected, and you manage it manually :p 02:29:55 n.b. your pass-to-c++ should have incremented the refcount, then you could probably make C++'s delete decrement it 02:30:09 oGMo: that is not what pinning means 02:30:12 i.e. that's where you use your specific-knowledge-of-c++-function 02:30:36 jsnell: now you're just arguing definitions, and i only accept mine, so pfft 02:30:36 pinning means that the object will not be moved by the GC 02:30:44 bbl 02:31:05 p_l: no, it's not that simple either 02:31:28 My C++ interface wrapper functions are defined with policies that inform the wrapper if ownership of pointers is assumed by C++ or not. 02:31:30 a c++ api will need to make it clear whether the callee takes ownership of an argument 02:32:16 jsnell: Actually, I have C++ template code to do exactly that. 02:32:42 jsnell: Hmmm, why am I not using that. 02:33:15 yes, if you have that it seems like the solution is fairly trivial :-) 02:33:55 at least assuming your heaps are unified 02:35:08 jsnell: Well I don't quite have it set up. 02:35:13 duber [~user@173.199.153.183] has joined #lisp 02:35:40 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-llpymvlbwoedutko] has joined #lisp 02:35:40 jsnell: Do you have a moment to listen to a deeper description of what I've done and what I have? I'd love your and others opinions. 02:36:02 sure 02:36:31 Ok. I wrote a C++ binding library that is very similar to this one: http://www.rasterbar.com/products/luabind/docs.html and boost::python. 02:36:36 Are you familiar with either of these? 02:37:28 They are C++ template libraries that interface C++ code to Lua and Python respectively. Luabind is derived from boost::python. Luabind is slightly newer and a cleaner implementation of the approach. 02:38:21 afraid not. I don't actually believe in cross-language programming within a single process, it always ends up more trouble than its worth :-) 02:38:36 To expose a function like clang::Lexer::getSourceText I use: def("Lexer-getSourceText",&clang::Lexer::getSourceText,policies >()) 02:39:25 The policies >() says that the fourth argument to getSourceText is a value returned by the function and it ignores whatever is passed in.passed by reference th 02:40:17 So Luabind has policies to describe what happens to arguments passed into the wrapper function and that are passed out of the wrapper function. 02:41:31 In Luabind there is this policy that I didn't understand but it may be what I need now: http://www.rasterbar.com/products/luabind/docs.html#dependency 02:41:55 no, I think you just want adopt 02:42:54 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f68e04.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:27 I have adopt already... but I may not have implemented it fully - I have to look at the function that I'm wrapping in this case. 02:43:35 dependency to me appears to be if you class A has a member of type B, pass a pointer to that member field, and want to give up ownership of A at the same time 02:44:12 It's this function that is giving me trouble at the moment: http://clang.llvm.org/doxygen/classclang_1_1ast__matchers_1_1MatchFinder.html#a4258332cee92ef573c72bd5560b88b5b 02:44:57 const internal::DynTypedMatcher & NodeMatch, 02:44:58 MatchCallback * Action 02:45:13 I'm calling matchFinder->addDynamicMatcher(const internal::DynTypedMatcher& NodeMatch, MatchCallback* Action) 02:45:29 I think it's the MatchCallback* Action that is giving me trouble. 02:46:03 and it's also the thing you're subclassing and directly allocating, as I understood your example 02:46:15 I subclassed MatchCallback in Common Lisp and the new class stores a LAMBDA function that get's executed whenever there is a match. It's awesomely powerful. 02:46:24 jsnell: Yes. 02:46:53 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6b034.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:47:08 I allocate it with (make-instance 'subclassed-match-callback :code #'(lambda () ...do stuff with match info in special variables...)) 02:48:02 That make-instance call allocates a C++ class that inherits from clangs MatchCallback and an Adapter class that stores Common Lisp slots. 02:48:15 It works like a charm except for this ownership problem. 02:49:14 is the lifetime of those two tied together somehow? 02:49:25 So if I understand correctly, you think I need to indicate that the call to this function passes ownership of this new instance to the object associated with addDynamicMatcher . 02:49:26 e.g. does the Adapter own the MatchCallback or vice versa 02:50:08 as I understand it, adopt should be saying that you're passing the ownership of the MatchCallback 02:50:20 The Adapter is one of the base classes of the subclassed MatchCallback. In C++ class SubclassedMatchCallback : public MatchCallback, public Adapter {...} 02:50:44 ah, right, a single instance 02:51:30 Give me a moment - I'm going to take a look at addDynamicMatcher and see if in C++ it takes ownership of the MatchCallback pointer. 02:52:09 just don't see how "dependency" would be relevant there :-) my guess on this information would be that "adopt" isn't working correctly 02:52:33 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:58 jsnell: Well, in this case I didn't provide a policy for addDynamicMatcher - so no adoption can be taking place even if I had it all working properly. 02:53:30 Here's the relevant interface code: 02:53:36 ,class_("MatchFinder",no_default_constructor) 02:53:36 . def_constructor("newMatchFinder",constructor<>()) 02:53:36 . def("addDynamicMatcher",&clang::ast_matchers::MatchFinder::addDynamicMatcher) 02:53:38 . def("matchAST",&clang::ast_matchers::MatchFinder::matchAST) 02:54:24 That's all that you need to specify wrapper functions for addDynamicMatcher and matchAST. A Common Lisp function name and a pointer to the C++ method. 02:54:29 nice 02:55:24 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 02:55:38 drmeister: one thing you might be interested in - make a "canary" for stack frames that also provides information on which parts of the stack contain pointers. While it won't help on the C++ side, it will help with tracking on lisp side :) 02:56:16 so that documentation says it doesn't take ownership of Action. which means that you'd need to manage the lifetime manually on the lisp-side 02:56:35 p_l: The stack is a thorny problem. I'd love to talk a bit more about that shortly if that's ok. 02:57:24 jsnell: You read documentation better than I do - I just saw that after you said it. 02:58:10 jsnell: So I was trying to deduce if MatchFinder deletes the actions from it's dtor. Now I know the answer - thanks. 02:58:16 drmeister: well, CCL does something like that, including registers saved to stack, by including a map of which register contained a pointer and which didn't. Some partition the register set 02:58:42 Ok, I can't tell the wrapper that the MatchFinder will adopt the pointer because it won't. 03:00:21 jsnell: Do you have any recommendations? This is where some sort of dependency might do the trick. What if I created some entry in a list of rooted entries that said the lifetime of the Action is tied to the lifetime of the MatchFinder? Wouldn't that give me the effect I want? 03:01:07 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 03:02:12 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.218.86] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 03:02:19 What if the entry were a weak_ptr to the MatchFinder and a smart_ptr to the Action? Then I could scan the list during GC scan and if the weak_ptr to the MatchFinder was NULL then I reset the smart_ptr to the Action. 03:02:25 drmeister: I expect that the way I'd structure this in c++ would be for MatchFinder and the MatchCallbacks to be owned by the same object 03:03:28 oxum_ [~oxum@122.164.218.86] has joined #lisp 03:03:41 jsnell: You just described my work around for this particular case. I'm thinking about the general case. My first clue that something was wrong was a segfault followed by an hour of debugging. I don't want to subject others to a weak design like this when I release this. 03:03:47 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:04:35 -!- oxum_ [~oxum@122.164.218.86] has quit [Client Quit] 03:04:35 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:04:36 Also, I don't want to mess around with the C++ implementation of the library - because that complicates the interface to the library. 03:05:19 do you mean solving this on a language level (for all C++ integration) or on the library level (for a LLVM binding)? 03:06:01 jsnell: But what you are describing would be essentially what I'm proposing above isn't it? Create a pair Where as long as the nurse is alive the patient stays alive. But once the nurse goes away ... well lets just say flowers will be ordered for the patient. 03:06:02 I don't see how you'd do the former. that's exactly the kind of impendance mismatch that I feel makes FFI-heavy programming too bothersome :-) 03:06:54 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:07:28 while the latter means that the API exposed to the lisp programmers will not be a mechanical translation of the C++ API 03:07:58 I'm not sure if this is language level or library level. I'm proposing a policy > I'm borrowing the keywords from luabind without understanding what their dependency/nurse/patient refer to but it feels right. 03:07:58 that solution sounds extremely expensive to me 03:08:26 jsnell: Why - what am I not considering? 03:08:44 dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #lisp 03:09:04 I'm not arguing mind you. If I'm wrong I'd like to get the wrong idea out of the way asap to move on to better ideas. 03:09:19 *drmeister* has no problem being wrong. 03:09:22 I expect weak pointers to be expensive, likewise for all kinds of "global" scans during minor gc 03:09:23 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:43 but moreover, it doesn't feel like the signature of the call-out is the right place to encode this kind of information 03:11:10 The Memory Pool System garbage collector that I am using handles weak pointers and I would be populating and scanning a single table for these dependencies. 03:11:45 jsnell: I think I need to sleep on this - this has been a very, very helpful discussion 03:11:45 I'm sure it'll be fine for 20 objects, or whatever 03:12:10 but if you're making it a general language level feature, you need to consider how it'll work for 20k or 200k objects 03:12:12 jsnell: That is a good point - I wouldn't want this happening for millions of objects. 03:12:13 that's a lot of weak refs 03:12:52 yes, it's probably past my bedtime as well. good night :-) 03:13:02 jsnell: Thank you very much. 03:13:26 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-170-63.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:31 -!- frx [~a@93-141-117-118.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [] 03:13:44 p_l: What do you mean by a "canary"? 03:14:14 something that dies in an informative fashion? 03:14:22 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:51 p_l: I'm very, very constrained by the GC capabilities of the LLVM - they are practically non-existent - don't believe anything you read on the web that is contrary to that - lies, all lies. 03:14:54 drmeister: a marker put on stack 03:15:08 drmeister: and no, you're not actually constrained by LLVM in terms of GC 03:15:38 LLVM only offers instrumentation so that you can add apropriate routines to certain memory accesses, I know :) 03:15:56 Well, the problem is that LLVM doesn't keep track of when pointers are in registers or memory. If you want to use GC on the stack you need to pin the pointers in memory and you loose all kinds of optimizations. 03:16:28 are you certain you can't get register mapping at a point? 03:16:53 So I'm using the Memory Pool System by Ravenbrook. I'm writing an exact GC scanner for pointers on the heap and depending on their conservative scanner for the stack. 03:18:16 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 03:18:39 p_l: What do you mean by "register mapping at a point"? If you mean - 1) gc gets called 2) gc function pushes all registers onto the stack 3) examines the return address and figures out which of the registers it pushed were pointers that it needs to modify and gc's only those 4) gc then examines stack frame info to identify pointers on the stack 5) gc function returns 03:18:40 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-210-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:19:57 drmeister: no, a hook in code generation phase of LLVM that would allow you to implement a call sequence where you *know* the "types" in each register (possibly by tracking types through the code) 03:20:11 pretty sure it's possible, but might involve significant amount of coding 03:20:22 LLVM says that it can create stack maps for (4) but I read that they are not very accessible - especially for JITted code and they don't seem at all accessible for C++ functions. 03:21:17 p_l: There's a bunch of us over in irc.oftc.net#llvm that are talking about exactly that - we haven't figured out how much trouble it is going to be to implement but a lot of us want this. 03:22:32 p_l: And on x86-64 there still aren't enough registers to partition them and then there's the problem of getting LLVM to observe register partitioning. 03:23:03 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:27 drmeister: as for canary, it usually means a "marker" pushed to the stack as part of calling sequence to provide for example notification of stack overflow, but also could serve as way of tracing what kind of code called the function and for GC to observe when it has extra data (stack maps) and when not. 03:23:30 p_l: Are we on the same page and does it appear that I know what I'm talking about? I ask this honestly, I'm very new to garbage collection ideas. 03:23:48 The only tricky bit is working out which registers are unboxed. 03:23:51 drmeister: yes, stack maps would be something along those lines 03:24:09 You might find that there's an efficient way to track that using one dedicated register as a bitmap. 03:24:29 Zhivago: What do you mean by "registers are unboxed"? 03:24:43 Well, registers contain words. A word can be tagged or untagged. 03:24:58 drmeister: which contain raw data and which contain tagged data that first needs unboxing before being directly used 03:24:58 An untagged word can be a pointer or an immediate value. 03:25:09 So I tag pointers (currently I use the bottom two bits) but on 64-bit systems I was thinking of using more higher bits. 03:25:27 You don't mean that do you? 03:25:33 So all you need to know is which registers are tagged and which contain untagged pointers. 03:26:00 And perhaps a single register can hold that information, if you have efficient register bitmap mutators. 03:26:26 What about registers that just contain intermediate results that aren't pointers or tagged? 03:26:27 In which case, all of these problems disappear. :) 03:26:35 GC doesn't care about those. 03:27:24 Did you mean to say 'immediate'? 03:27:54 -!- abbe [having@badti.me] has quit [Quit: Everytime that we are together, it's always estatically palpitating!] 03:28:08 abbe [having@badti.me] has joined #lisp 03:30:00 n0n0 [~n0n0___@75.144.20.73] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 Yeah - but these are low-level details I've happily let the LLVM library sweep under a very lumpy rug. I think I'd have to refactor some of the LLVM library to support these approaches. 03:31:00 drmeister: afaik there are hook points in LLVM to add various data and code generation necessary, but I had too little contact with the API to know more 03:31:14 No - I meant to say intermediate - I'm not using the word carefully at all. 03:31:36 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:33:31 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.184.33.8] has joined #lisp 03:34:33 p_l: I'm sure I could do it given time. Over in #llvm there are several of us talking about it - we are trying to figure out how to do it. I can't really do it because I've already spent a year more time than I thought I would be implementing this Common Lisp compiler. 03:35:35 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 03:35:40 It's really coming together and I have a solution to the GC problem that I'm implementing as we speak. But it's conservative GC on the stack and moving, precise GC on the heap using the MPS library. This is exactly the kind of GC (if I understand correctly) that SBCL uses on x86 chips so I'm in good company. 03:38:30 The only twist that I didn't mention is that I use C++ multiple and virtual inheritance a lot! That means I have lots of internal pointers to objects that need to be recognized as pointers. The MPS library didn't know how to deal with them until the MPS guys wrote me a patch that slows GC down by about 15% by their estimates. Currently my compiled code runs 650x SLOWER than SBCL so I'm not too worried about 1 03:38:30 5%. 03:38:31 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.184.33.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:38:31 ...so I'm not too worried about 15%. Not yet at least. 03:38:31 vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-6.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:31 drmeister: MPS is arguably a bit better in places than SBCL's GC... but note the word "arguably" :) 03:39:07 drmeister: 650x? WHere does it spend most of its time? 03:39:43 Right: One of the stated "future projects" for sbcl is adding MPS. 03:40:27 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:40:28 Interfacing my stuff to C and C++ is easy for me. The problem has been tracking down all of the root pointers. 03:41:32 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:5865:79d5:3365:fe33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:41:35 What's my solution you ask? Expose the Clang C++ AST and source-to-source translation library to Common Lisp and write a static analyzer that tracks them all down and writes C++ code that marks all roots. 03:41:53 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:42:01 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:07 *drmeister* gets the shivers every time he thinks about it - it's awesome. 03:42:37 loke: I think it's spending its time reference counting. 03:42:47 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-6.thefacebook.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:42:51 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:52 drmeister: it was actually my "project" of sorts (looking into SBCL w/ MPS) 03:43:16 drmeister: reference counting? Why? Isn't it a GC? 03:43:29 drmeister: also, you might be interested in hybrid refcounting with mark/sweep or other scanning GC in the mix 03:43:42 loke: No, not yet - it's a purely reference counted implementation of Common Lisp. 03:43:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 03:43:55 I see 03:44:02 how do you handle circular references? 03:44:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 03:44:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:44:32 there's a paper floating on the net describing a compiler that implemented static analysis to reduce amount of garbage produced by functions, which combined static escape analysis, 1-bit reference counting, and scanning GC 03:44:52 loke: Several ways 1) Waiting for it to segfault 2) cycling the power 3) Control-C ... I've got all the bases covered. 03:45:03 -!- jleija_ [~jleija@96.26.196.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:45:12 :-) 03:45:15 p_l: I read that - I went with MPS 03:45:22 hehe 03:45:46 I might one day finally take on a new GC for SBCL 03:45:52 would a book like http://gchandbook.org/ help, drmeister? 03:46:03 unfortunately, I ended up with completely different project for my Master's :) 03:46:10 jleija [~jleija@50.15.166.125] has joined #lisp 03:46:16 drmeister: we need to figure out how to get rptb1 back on IRC. 03:47:15 It doesn't burn memory as fast as I thought it would. I could run like this except it's very slow. I tried profiling it but profiling was a complete waste of time. I couldn't figure out where it's spending its time. So I look at the LLVM-IR I generate and compare that to what C or C++ LLVM-IR looks like. I have a lot of housekeeping calls to ref-counting and debugging. 03:47:47 brucem: He was extremely helpful - I completely agree. 03:47:56 well, hopefully you work out open sourcing soon, so you can bring to bear the great forces of the bored and unemployed 03:48:03 brucem: And cheerful - I really like cheerful people. 03:49:12 Bike: I would love that. I've got a whole compiler to improve, C++ libraries to expose, C++ refactoring tools to write - this thing is going to be awesome. 03:49:55 It's also a great playground for working with LLVM-IR. It's like including ASM code in your CL code but it's portable. 03:51:07 drmeister: Sorry in advance for this, but. 03:51:08 http://i.imgur.com/cCIG5V1.jpg 03:51:10 Anyway, this has been going on for too long. I need to get this thing out just for my soul. 03:51:22 *drmeister* snorts. 03:52:26 drmeister: You're welcome :-) 03:53:03 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 03:53:28 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:53:28 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-95-222-44-2.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:53:59 loke: My little girl liked it very much. 03:54:38 She's 9 and crazy about cats. 03:55:29 Anyway - it's getting late and I really should be working on something else. I've got a proposal due out tomorrow and a talk to give the next day. 03:55:49 Thanks everyone for your suggestions and advice. 03:55:51 drmeister: Then go to Google+ and subscribe to the community "Cats of Google+" 03:55:54 it's awesome 03:56:03 oxum [~oxum@122.164.211.64] has joined #lisp 03:56:18 That's where I get my daily cat fix. Yes, I'm subscribed to it 03:57:01 https://plus.google.com/communities/115239249104183798829 03:58:44 Alright - that's pretty funny. 03:59:21 It's what the Internet was made for 03:59:33 oh wow, someone on the Internet likes pictures of cats! I thought I was the only one! 03:59:42 -!- Tsukikage is now known as bitwize 04:00:03 aerique: I know, right? 04:01:29 i mean aeth 04:03:11 Axioplase [~pied@S010600259c32fc2c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:31 Hi. 04:04:05 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g226032021.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:04:58 Quicklisp question. I have a project thqt depends on lispbuilder-sdl. It seems thqt I have to prefix all the (relevant) symbols with "lispbuilder-sdl:" or I get undefined function kinds of errors. 04:05:38 How can I make my code look in the lispbuilder-sdl nqmespqce? 04:06:58 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:32 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:09 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 04:11:39 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.166.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:12:17 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:51 jleija [~jleija@96.26.196.193] has joined #lisp 04:13:04 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip70-189-239-148.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 04:15:47 oh, found out. Added a :use directive to pqckqge.lisp 04:16:43 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:17:24 Alfr [~Unknown@g225180194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:40 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 04:19:37 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 04:22:48 -!- soggybread [~booblik@ppp91-76-131-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:23:03 soggybread [~booblik@ppp91-76-131-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:23:20 -!- easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:23:21 easye` [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has joined #lisp 04:23:24 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:24:13 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #lisp 04:24:13 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 04:24:13 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:24:28 Axioplase: Yes you can do that 04:24:36 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 04:24:39 I definitely prefer to prefix though. Makes collisions less likely 04:24:53 You can create a package alias to shorten the names to your liking 04:26:54 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:27:30 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:28:22 loke: Where do you create package aliases? Do you mean package nicknames that you define with the package? I'm surprised by how much package prefixing I do in my code. 04:28:37 drmeister: yes, I mean that 04:29:02 Or you can create a new package that imports and exports all the external symbols of another package 04:29:19 (or of multiple packages) 04:29:52 brb lunch 04:34:54 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@75.144.20.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:36:16 -!- jleija [~jleija@96.26.196.193] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:36:17 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@186.214.175.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:38:57 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:14 ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip70-189-239-148.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:12 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip70-189-239-148.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:46:12 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 04:47:27 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch786@ne102611l.eng.utoledo.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:10 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.103.207] has joined #lisp 04:48:31 andreh_ [~andreh@186.214.175.36] has joined #lisp 04:49:12 Tsukikage [~bitwize@c-98-216-250-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:36 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225180194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:49:52 -!- Tsukikage [~bitwize@c-98-216-250-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:41 -!- joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:54 joshe [~joshe@onyx.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 04:52:17 -!- bitwize [~bitwize@c-98-216-250-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:56:03 the conduits package helps in creating such "alias packages" 04:56:35 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 04:57:24 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 04:58:06 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:46 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 05:04:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:38 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 05:06:41 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.211.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:17 -!- Axioplase [~pied@S010600259c32fc2c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:10:46 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:15:36 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:16:28 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:31 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:49 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:44 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 05:18:29 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:41 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 05:19:08 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:19:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:20:35 alezost [~user@128-70-204-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:21:05 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:23:57 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:30:36 ggole [~ggole@220-253-138-134.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:34:49 p_l: conduits package? 05:36:08 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36:39 oxum [~oxum@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 05:37:53 pillton: a small tool that extends defpackage with some useful tools, that for example allow easy creation of a new package with your own nicknames etc. that re-exports all symbols from a bunch of other packages except certain symbols etc. 05:38:04 a kind of "processing" tool for packages 05:39:28 p_l: I see. 05:39:35 pillton: 05:39:35 by MyraSlokov 05:39:35 156,740 views 3:34 05:39:39 aaaarg 05:39:47 sorry, copy buffer fail 05:40:13 https://github.com/Inaimathi/conduits <--- this appears to be a mirror of conduits, I have no idea where the current canonical source is 05:40:20 it's included in quicklisp, though 05:40:44 p_l: I like the idea of relative packages. http://franz.com/support/documentation/8.2/doc/packages.htm#relative-2 05:40:49 as "conduit-packages" 05:40:51 p_l: Thanks for the link. I will check it out. 05:41:07 pillton: relative packages are nice, yes (actually come from ZetaLisp, afaik) 05:41:12 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has joined #lisp 05:41:13 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has quit [Changing host] 05:41:13 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 05:44:11 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:35 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 05:49:24 -!- easye` [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:49:42 easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has joined #lisp 05:50:12 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:51:00 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:52:36 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:43 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:53:01 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 05:53:09 dfceaef_ [~dfceaef@222.69.220.56] has joined #lisp 05:57:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:04 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 06:00:14 -!- dfceaef_ [~dfceaef@222.69.220.56] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:03:58 oxum_ [~oxum@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 06:04:50 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:04:50 -!- oxum_ is now known as oxum 06:06:57 p_l: It seems like an old problem. There is also 3b/package-local-nicknames, cl-package-aliases and hierarchical-packages. 06:08:50 -!- snits [~snits@184-98-227-247.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:10:03 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.21] has joined #lisp 06:10:49 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:37 pillton: hierarchical-packages afaik comes from the same source as conduits 06:14:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:14:58 although all of those have *slightly* different purpose 06:15:10 conduits are a bit like splicing and dicing of packages 06:15:33 it just happens that doing so creates a new package which can get new nicknames 06:15:38 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:09 I have bits of code lying somewhere that declared their own version of COMMON-LISP this way 06:16:16 slarti [~anonymous@12.107.116.132] has joined #lisp 06:16:42 (and all other packages in the code used the "new" package instead of CL 06:16:43 ) 06:19:11 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 06:21:02 snits [~snits@184-98-227-247.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:47 -!- percopal_ [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal_] 06:25:46 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.103.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:57 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.103.207] has joined #lisp 06:26:40 p_l: Interesting. 06:27:27 logand [~user@g226034019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:28:52 pillton: this way I both got around hu.dwim's crazy package names as well as got "unified" packages that had closer-mop etc. 06:30:03 p_l: Does it work with slime? 06:30:49 p_l: i.e. for C-M-x 06:32:41 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.103.207] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 06:33:42 pillton: from the pov of slime nothing changes 06:34:29 created packages etc. are normal CL packages, just the code that generates them has some extra niceties 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[~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:24:17 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:21 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:45 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:24:48 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 14:26:55 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:25 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:41 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 14:29:13 Xach, H4ns: is anyone of you familiar with Bahn online train ticket reservation system? May I ask some help with it if so? 14:29:14 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:29 hitecnologys: what do you mean by "familiar with"? i am an unhappy customer, not more than that. 14:31:58 hitecnologys: is it written in lisp? 14:32:09 it. is. not. 14:32:31 it is an awful piece of java ee software. it is hard not to hate it. 14:33:17 H4ns: I just can't figure out what "Reserve a seat only" does. 14:33:17 H4ns: I meant something like familiar with the interface. 14:33:17 What should I use then? 14:33:50 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:34:33 Please don't use #lisp for tech support like that. 14:34:39 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:35:36 Xach: I'm really sorry, I already wanted to suggest moving this discussion somewhere else. 14:35:54 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:36:00 hitecnologys: if it's a sleeping train, maybe it means no bed. 14:36:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:39:45 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4db975ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:40:43 sword` [~sword@2601:7:1900:f4:e2cb:4eff:fef7:a13] has joined #lisp 14:41:02 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:41:31 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.184.33.8] has joined #lisp 14:42:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:55 amaron [~amaron@net200-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #lisp 14:44:22 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:45:10 -!- sword [~sword@2601:7:1900:f4:e2cb:4eff:fef7:a13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:47:02 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cfbwinvvbxuzgahl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:47:43 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:50:28 sword`` [~sword@c-24-21-123-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:25 -!- sword` [~sword@2601:7:1900:f4:e2cb:4eff:fef7:a13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:55:46 kissarat [~kissarat@193.169.80.152] has joined #lisp 14:57:19 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:28 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exit IRC/Hiberate] 14:59:04 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 s1n4 [~s1n4@unaffiliated/s1n4] has joined #lisp 15:02:50 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 15:03:02 -!- s1n4 [~s1n4@unaffiliated/s1n4] has left #lisp 15:04:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:50 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 15:09:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:53 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:18:01 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xxopblbsbvzbblvy] has joined #lisp 15:21:26 mksan [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:23:19 sellout- [~Adium@161.98.11.114] has joined #lisp 15:24:39 hitecnologys: reservation may be distinct from ticket buying (in France it is). so you may reserve without buying a ticket at the same time (it's assumed you already have one). 15:24:43 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.56] has joined #lisp 15:27:17 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28:05 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:28 yasha [~yasha@unaffiliated/yasha] has joined #lisp 15:30:15 -!- mksan [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:32 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC0B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:50 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:35:50 rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:32 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:40:16 urandom__ [~user@ip-84-119-32-80.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:42:09 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:27 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 ogamita: I see. It's kinda different from what we have in Russia (at least according to my information). 15:49:35 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:50:18 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xxopblbsbvzbblvy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:55:43 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:35 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-210-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:49 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-haswzcrmfmfgewuz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:58:14 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-194-227.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:17 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has joined #lisp 15:58:17 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has quit [Changing host] 15:58:17 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 15:59:15 hitecnologys, you can reserve platz-kart or coupe in russian long distance trains too 15:59:27 it's been possible since, well, forever 16:01:09 varjagg: oh, cool, I didn't know that. 16:04:45 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 16:05:45 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:08:22 slarti [~anonymous@12.107.116.132] has joined #lisp 16:08:54 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:45 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.162.254.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:20 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:55 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:12:35 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:12:47 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:11 anybody used cl-olefs already? 16:13:39 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:17:52 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hqxugpbyydvjmesm] has joined #lisp 16:18:43 first try, debugger. too bad. 16:22:31 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hqxugpbyydvjmesm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:29:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 16:31:40 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:45 -!- slarti [~anonymous@12.107.116.132] has quit [Quit: slarti] 16:34:13 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 16:39:11 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 16:43:39 -!- rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 16:44:28 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:44:53 cory786 [~cory@2600:1009:b026:82c7:223:4dff:fe00:a13e] has joined #lisp 16:46:26 -!- OldContrarian [~user@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:47:57 xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:22 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:55:42 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:51 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:04 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 Alfr [~Unknown@g225180194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:20 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:08:41 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has joined #lisp 17:08:48 _WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 17:09:19 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:00 -!- _WarWeasle is now known as WarWeasle 17:13:49 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:15:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:15:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 17:15:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:18:34 Basically, reservation is a reified association between a ticket and a place in a specific train at a specific time. (define-association reservation (train ) (place ) (time ) (ticket )) 17:20:47 -!- sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:20:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:25:44 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:20 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-lgvliljpmxvxikzn] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:27:00 -!- sword`` is now known as sword 17:27:19 -!- kissarat [~kissarat@193.169.80.152] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:22 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:50 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:00 -!- cory786 [~cory@2600:1009:b026:82c7:223:4dff:fe00:a13e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:13 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:31:40 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:47 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:35:13 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:37:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:37:50 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:38:43 How do I create a list of N identical symbols? N=2 '(val val) N=5 '(val val val val val) 17:40:18 -!- WarWeasle is now known as jjouhgg 17:41:17 (make-list 5 :initial-element 'foo) 17:41:39 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:45 Thank you! 17:42:02 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 17:42:45 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:43:02 -!- jjouhgg [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 17:46:19 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:48 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:01 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 17:59:46 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:59:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:00:26 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:01:03 clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:11 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 18:05:08 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:08:20 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:56 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:09:25 cory786 [~cory@162.sub-70-194-194.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:12:15 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:53 (coerce #5(foo) 'list)? 18:15:03 (don't use that for real) 18:15:57 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:17:13 hmm. i didn't know you could write vectors like that. 18:18:03 -!- sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:33 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 18:19:17 Question: What level of effort would it be to create a Lisp Macro compiler for the LLVM assembly language? 18:19:50 -!- mood_ is now known as mood 18:20:32 Lots if you care about performance. 18:21:19 ggole: Would an optimizing compiler fix those issues? 18:21:24 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.253] has joined #lisp 18:21:30 No. 18:21:32 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:46 -!- logand [~user@g226034019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:31 logand [~user@g226034019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:52 You have to worry about things like a decent GC, good closure conversion, good representations, etc 18:23:16 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.118.213] has joined #lisp 18:23:17 And language specific stuff like CLOS. 18:23:33 ggole: Ok. Thanks for saving me a lot of time. 18:23:44 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 18:23:50 But you could do a less-performant job for significantly less effort. 18:24:12 WarWeasle: what exactly do you mean by "Lisp Macro compiler" 18:24:50 jasom: It's like an interpreter but instead of calling functions, it translates to macros which compile to native lisp. 18:25:24 so you want to compile llvm assembly to lisp? 18:26:24 Other way around, I think. 18:26:39 Unless I've got hold of the wrong end of this. 18:26:44 jasom: Yes, so I could translate c, c++, etc to lisp and use those libraries. 18:26:54 Never mind, I have. 18:27:06 Like emscripten for Lisp. 18:27:15 WarWeasle: There is already a full implementation of C in common lisp 18:27:19 WarWeasle: You might want something more like what f2cl does. CL offers forms that make that sort of structure fairly easy (EG, PROG) 18:27:35 So you are thinking about writing a Lisp backend for LLVM. 18:27:42 ggole: Yes! 18:28:04 OK. Well, ignore what I said before, I had it the wrong way around. 18:28:30 ggole: you could probably start from emscripten if you don't mind using the asm.js conventions 18:28:47 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:48 (simulate a C machine by having a gigantic array of bytes) 18:29:13 Could you do "casts"? 18:29:30 I think you probably could, actually, but I'm not sure how hard you would have to cheat to do it. 18:29:43 ggole: it's trivial if you do a big byte array 18:29:49 ggole: which is why that's how emscripten does it 18:30:21 FWIW, there's an interpreter/compiler for an old version of the JVM written for SBCL somewhere. 18:30:24 Javascript allows different views on typed arrays, though (afaik). 18:30:31 WarWeasle: see this too though: https://github.com/vsedach/Vacietis 18:30:33 ggole: And if I use macros it should compile away alot of code. 18:31:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@net200-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:12 Ok. I'll think about doing that. It would be nice to have some C++ libraries go native in lisp. 18:33:06 WarWeasle: look at how emscripten does things; it essentially emulates a C heap with a gigantic byte array. That makes translating from llvm a lot easier 18:33:07 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:39 jasom: That might be the skeleton key I needed to unlock emscripten. 18:33:44 WarWeasle: note that a lot of code doesn't work on emscripten though, as certain constructs aren't emulated 18:34:10 WarWeasle: you can look at the asm.js spec too; that was basically created from emscriptens code-gen model 18:34:46 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.184.33.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:39 Hmm, vacietis seems to represent points as base/ptr pairs that index into a basic lisp array 18:35:46 *pointers 18:36:05 wall [~wall@ip92-101-209-85.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:36 ggole: yes, it specifically doesn't support code that assumes you can cast e.g. from a char* to a uint32_t * and get something meaningful 18:37:40 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:37:46 ggole: sizeof() is always 1 for primitive types 18:37:46 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:52 What about things like pointers to the insides of structs? 18:38:06 jasom: that's ok, C even allows for that 18:38:09 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 18:38:31 (C implementations on hardware like DSPs actually do it, too.) 18:38:31 ggole: it doesn't matter what the standard allows, it matters what real-world code does :P 18:38:39 Indeed. 18:38:47 ggole: or the specific real-world code you want to use 18:39:07 ggole: pointers into structs should work, since aggregates use mutliple entries in the array 18:41:59 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:01 Ah, that's what place-ptr is all about 18:42:34 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 18:45:01 dfceaef_ [~dfceaef@222.69.220.56] has joined #lisp 18:45:27 ck`` [~user@aftr-37-24-151-34.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:09 -!- eak_ [~unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:46:16 eak [~unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:57 -!- dfceaef_ [~dfceaef@222.69.220.56] has left #lisp 18:51:12 -!- LtCrData [~LtCrData@host109-148-126-76.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:51:44 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:51:46 jup http://paste.lisp.org/display/141145#1 18:51:54 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:25 -!- luis [~luis@kerno.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:38 first time i use symbol-macrolet..... 18:52:39 luis [~luis@kerno.org] has joined #lisp 18:52:39 lol 18:52:41 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:52:42 -!- __class__ [~class@c-98-207-86-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:52:54 -!- clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:13 LtCrData [~LtCrData@host109-148-126-76.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:25 __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has joined #lisp 18:53:28 __class__ [~class@c-98-207-86-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:08 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:56:49 SLIME compile question: when I compile with make, I get failures when compiling the contrib/ files: (eval-and-compile (require 'slime)) fails because makefile-invoke emacs isn't finding SLIME. 18:57:01 Anyone else seen this problem? 19:00:40 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:54 rpg: open an issue! 19:01:38 I suspect that this has to do with LOAD_PATH not being set properly by the Makefile. 19:02:39 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:41 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:21 whoa 19:05:08 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 now (thread-list) shows only the active thread running when i close the others... but threads shows them all still but it indicates they are finished..... 19:05:18 Looks like when I run aquamacs, the emacs 24 grepitude is mistakenly putting a ":" in the load-path. 19:05:21 heh 19:06:35 -!- wall [~wall@ip92-101-209-85.onego.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:11 That's it: although Aquamacs is Emacs 24.3.50.2, it doesn't handle the : in load path the way the Makefile thinks it should. 19:10:39 logand` [~user@g226034090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:54 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:09 mrSpec [~Spec@LCaen-156-55-15-53.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:12:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@LCaen-156-55-15-53.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Changing host] 19:12:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:14:05 Classically, #\: was a pathname component separator on MacOS. 19:14:18 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@94.191.188.100.bredband.3.dk] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 -!- logand [~user@g226034019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:14 So people could write dates mm/dd/yyyy in file names :-) 19:15:28 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:53 mrSpec [~Spec@LCaen-156-55-15-53.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:16:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@LCaen-156-55-15-53.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Changing host] 19:16:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:19:41 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:08 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:57 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 19:22:09 clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:51 nyef: classically, using colons in multiple programming language environments always ends in tears. 19:24:00 classical tears. 19:24:27 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 19:25:08 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:59 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:04 -!- ggole [~ggole@220-253-138-134.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:29:10 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:16 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:43 luis: filed an issue per your suggestion. 19:30:39 rpg_ 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has joined #lisp 19:42:34 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:10 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 19:43:40 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-elenyjacrrusfapv] has joined #lisp 19:44:24 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 19:45:55 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:07 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:40 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:40 -!- sellout- [~Adium@161.98.11.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:58 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:16 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:51:59 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:28 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 19:56:44 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C481C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:01:08 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.118.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:01:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:01:41 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:26 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:33 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:22 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:14:37 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:35 hmmm 20:20:06 can't get the fields updated when i run those threads again....and it should then show running, but it still shows finished..... 20:21:07 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-220-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:11 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.254.87] has joined #lisp 20:25:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 20:25:56 -!- hugod` [~user@69.157.171.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:23 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0309.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:28:18 has anyone had any experience using the log5 library? 20:28:43 arigoins [~ari@174-28-35-120.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:15 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:44 -!- clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:32:07 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:36:34 wall [~wall@ip92-101-209-85.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 20:37:29 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:48 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E1883.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:01 dlowe: what? You mean there are more CL libraries than people to use them??? 20:39:28 apparently 20:39:43 log4cl looks popular, but I think I like the log5 model better 20:40:02 You sound like our local log5 expert. 20:40:23 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:43 Yeah, well. I wanted to check to see if someone used log5 and it ended up launching nuclear missiles 20:40:54 Now, I don't know if you realize it, but the #lisp crew is less numerous than the ncc1701 crew. So we have to take on ourselves. 20:42:17 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 google for resume +lisp gives 191 hits. 20:43:38 I like cl-log too 20:43:49 quite simple, actually includes all the jazz 20:44:17 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:45:12 heh. it says it's modeled after log5 20:45:22 there you go ;-) 20:46:14 Well, perhaps a little more, the standard complement of ncc-1701 is 430. 20:47:40 It's the -D, Galaxy class that has 1000 - 3000 crew. 20:47:40 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:15 So, what I mean, is that if you don't have the pioneer spirit, lisp is not for you. 20:48:39 I'm not exactly new here :p 20:48:46 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 20:49:10 anyway, cl-log looks pretty nice 20:49:12 I talk anycast. 20:49:29 snardbafulador [uid24975@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqlhtjslieaokdcn] has joined #lisp 20:51:07 clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:19 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:46 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:52:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-15.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:44 is there a way to make an lisp image (save-lisp-and-die) search again for CFFI libs at startup, rather than just blindly trying to load again the exact same path location as when the image has been created? 20:53:20 -!- andreh_ [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:53:23 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:43 dim: there are implementation specific hooks to run a function when the image is launched, which could be used to search for libraries. 20:55:51 *snardbafulador* knows that dim loves to take 12 inch aids-infested african schlongs up his pooper 20:56:34 Error: unrelated to common-lisp. 20:56:45 pjb`: do you know of a portability layer around that? 20:56:48 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 20:56:51 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*uid24975@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqlhtjslieaokdcn 20:56:56 -!- snardbafulador [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (snardbafulador) 20:56:58 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 20:57:01 I could being with only adding support for SBCL and CCL at first, of course 20:57:08 thanks Xach 20:57:09 dim: Never heard of one. Perhaps there's something in cl-launch about it? 20:57:13 <3 local package nicknames 20:57:17 I'm using cl-buildapp currently 20:57:27 actually might as well read some docs on cl-buildapp again 20:57:42 yes 20:57:54 dlowe: what do you use for that? 20:58:21 I'm not seeing a direct option for that 20:58:29 dim: oh, and when you save an executable image, there's a way to specify the init function or toplevel function, so this should be exported from cl-launch and cl-buildapp. 20:58:38 Just run the code to search the libraries before your own. 20:58:41 H4ns: mostly to shorten names. cl-ppcre to re 20:58:45 local-time to time 20:58:50 drakma to http 20:58:56 in my tests the lib is searched for before the init function takes control 20:59:02 dlowe: sure, but what do you use to get them? 20:59:05 well actually it's more in my bug reports 20:59:10 and, in this case, com.ravenbrook.common-lisp-log to log 20:59:16 oh. it's part of sbcl now 20:59:27 H4ns: http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/manual/#Package_002dLocal-Nicknames 20:59:32 Is it bad? Can't you open the library after this error? 20:59:38 I like to think I had something to do with it. :) 20:59:54 Otherwise you may save the day by closing the libraries before saving the image (or not opening them then). 21:00:00 ah, nice. i guess i'll give up on portability and start using them, too 21:00:05 dlowe: *bow* 21:00:17 add-package-local-nickname, nice 21:00:19 At least as far as lobbying to have them 21:00:31 someone could write a CDR for other implementations to adopt, potentially 21:00:31 let's hope CCL have them soon ;-) 21:00:48 maybe someone who works at Clozure will notice and take action? 21:00:51 dlowe: indeed, but i was kind of shy to use something non-portable 21:01:12 dlowe: last time i used a non-portable feature, i hated myself for it a few months later. 21:02:28 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 21:02:45 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:08 oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has joined #lisp 21:04:16 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:20 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:32 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 21:06:10 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 21:06:17 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has joined #lisp 21:06:35 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 21:06:39 -!- logand` [~user@g226034090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:16 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 21:11:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:31 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.117.249] has joined #lisp 21:14:26 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96807.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:16:22 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 21:20:22 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:41 on further contemplation, I think the cl-log package is meant to be :used 21:21:06 is there an ultimate logging package yet? 21:21:26 pnpuff` [~D@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 note that the quux logging code has been released as free software, though it hasn't yet been separated from the rest of quux and made usable. 21:21:45 -!- LtCrData [~LtCrData@host109-148-126-76.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:49 -!- pnpuff` [~D@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 21:21:54 Fare: I use log4cl 21:22:07 what is missing in CL world, is a logging package for libraries 21:22:15 like commons-logging in java 21:23:31 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 21:23:33 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 21:23:39 I decided on cl-log 21:23:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:23:56 LtCrData [~LtCrData@host109-148-126-76.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:28 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 21:25:29 pjb: yes, uiop provides such a hook, *image-restart-hook* a list in which users can register functions that will be run in the correct (reverse) order. 21:25:32 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96807.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:25:34 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: experience disappeared because of unknown reasons] 21:25:49 and this hook is used by both asdf:image-op and cl-launch. 21:25:50 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:23 for portability, the hook is manually triggered by calling uiop:restore-image at startup 21:26:49 which both asdf:image-op and cl-launch do. 21:27:13 (or is that an answer for dim?) 21:27:28 yeah actually I was asking about that 21:27:40 specifically for searching CFFI/UFFI libs again 21:27:49 rather than erroring because the minor version doesn't match 21:27:57 (openssl 1.0.0 I'm looking at you) 21:28:27 Yeah, it would be nice to modify libraries to use this mechanism, now that asdf3 is almost universally adopted. 21:28:41 Xach: how is asdf3 for quicklisp going along? 21:29:45 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 21:31:35 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:53 you mean each time a lib is possibly using a CFFI dependency, it then should do some specific ASDF dance so that it all works by default at pre-saved image startup? 21:32:47 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:12 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:42 Fare: Horribly. 21:36:31 :-( 21:36:36 Can I help in any way? 21:36:47 Stop adding things to ASDF. 21:36:58 Actually, since a new release is imminent — can we patch it in a way that helps you? 21:37:06 The damage is done. 21:37:10 Xach: I have stopped adding things indeed. 21:37:27 the damage had to be done. 21:37:39 I bet! 21:38:27 my 150' "walkthrough" can give an idea what the new code looks like and why it is this way. 21:38:57 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C481C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:58 (best viewed at +50% speed, I suppose) 21:39:20 (which still makes it 100') 21:39:37 -!- xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:08 dim: yes, if and when uiop is universally there, cffi would usefully rely on it to load .so's at startup. 21:40:48 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:28 ping me when it's done? ;-) 21:41:29 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:31 also, cffi could/should use some mechanism to compile cffi-wrappers as .o then link as .so, such that the .o's could be collected by either monolithic-dll-op or monolithic-image-op (on ECL). 21:41:34 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:40 if you want to begin with ssl, that would make my day 21:42:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:27 In which case, the cffi loading code should check against a registry of libraries virtually there. 21:42:33 xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has joined #lisp 21:42:41 Fare: if you tell me how to do it I will implement that in cffi, iolib and everything else I use 21:42:41 regarding ssl, ask nyef for his new cl+ssl replacement 21:42:58 fe[nl]ix, that would be wonderful 21:43:12 (especially since I'm out of the game, now) 21:43:37 I'll believe it when I see it. 21:43:48 dlowe: believe what ? 21:43:58 that Fare is out of the game 21:44:39 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 21:44:56 :) 21:44:59 ah yeah. Fare: so are you not a developer anymore, or using something else than CL? 21:45:17 fe[nl]ix, I suppose the idea is that CFFI and/or UIOP (in which case — please try to send a patch before the imminent release) would define some hook to load a single .so at startup, and subsequently another hook to load individual .so's if the previous hook isn't defined. 21:45:39 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 21:45:47 dim: I'm trying to move away from CL, though trying to leave things behind me in order. 21:46:19 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:21 monolithic-dll-op would use the previous hook, which suggests it should be part of uiop. 21:46:22 did you find a replacement already, or do you not even have a choice? 21:47:55 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:03 to work, the .o's need to be explicit output-files of some actions that dll-op and/or monolithic-dll-op can walk, so they can be linked in a single .so — either as part of the same action that creates the individual .so's or as part of a separate action that happens before. 21:48:07 impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has joined #lisp 21:48:14 dim: I'll be working on one 21:48:30 Tunes Revival? 21:48:33 dim: I've decided to hack together some yet-undefined "linear lisp" 21:48:39 dim: of sort, I suppose 21:48:46 good luck with that, then! 21:48:50 thanks 21:49:11 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:49:27 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49:30 lemex [~irc@49.14.136.82] has joined #lisp 21:49:56 a mix of CL and Erlang and either haskell or ocaml could be a thing 21:50:04 note that since the runtime path can differ from the compile-time path, the hook better be a function designator as per call-function (a pathname conveniently designates the constantly it function) 21:50:13 dim: ditto 21:51:01 sigi [~sigi@host-85-27-109-25.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 21:51:04 I'm still unsure why haskell/ocaml type system couldn't be another CL lib 21:51:22 you would maybe have to :use it *instead* of :cl 21:52:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:53:09 because there are both monolithic-dll-op and dll-op, maybe the overriding needs to be more clever than that: a hash-table of individual libraries already loaded (either individually or in mass), and that would get populated either at once by the monolithic-dll-op or piecemeal by the dll-op 21:53:09 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:06 or, you could hack the internal state of asdf actions to represent these events, if you consider asdf a runtime system maintenance system as well as build-time. 21:54:07 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:20 Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:25 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:25 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:54:46 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:15 if there is no uiop hook and the support is added in cffi instead, cffi could add an :after method for monolithic-dll-op and dll-op to do the right thing. 21:55:38 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.150.190] has joined #lisp 21:55:57 actually, it makes sense to work that way, since it wouldn't be a good idea to move .so loading into uiop 21:56:17 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 21:56:24 fe[nl]ix, there — if you have questions, at any time, you know my gtalk address 21:57:01 I'll try 21:58:47 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:00 -!- yasha [~yasha@unaffiliated/yasha] has quit [Quit: yasha] 22:01:16 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:33 Vivitron``` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:54 -!- wrwef [~user@user-0cdv8g9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:09 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:48 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:23 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.21] has joined #lisp 22:08:37 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:46 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:22 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:29 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:17 -!- sigi [~sigi@host-85-27-109-25.brutele.be] has left #lisp 22:17:17 vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:38 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:21:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:22:45 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:24:46 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:26:06 note that on ECL, you might want to link the C extending code into the fasl and executable images themselves, rather than keep them separate. 22:26:16 on other implementations, you can't do that, that I know of. 22:27:40 I think I'll just declare ECL as unsupported 22:27:49 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 22:27:52 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE4F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:21 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:30:53 ASau [~user@p54AFE4F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:37 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:32:38 fe[nl]ix: I think ECL *is* unsupported now! ;-/ 22:32:53 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@94.191.188.100.bredband.3.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:33 -!- clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 22:36:58 more or less 22:37:27 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225180194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:30 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:38:15 Quite sad... 22:39:50 why ? 22:39:56 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:41:24 wait wat 22:42:31 p_l: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat 22:43:12 have fun 22:43:54 dim: nice talk. unfortunately I couldn't go to Bruxelles 22:44:03 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 22:44:52 thanks! will you be in Paris for the Lisp Symposium early May? 22:44:55 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:45:09 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:45:25 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 22:45:48 I won't miss it 22:46:10 clintm [~clintm@174-24-221-146.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:26 I intend to be there too, so we'll meet at this occasion ;-) 22:46:45 was the Bruxelles' talk recorded, like in video or something? 22:47:05 I just read the slides 22:48:17 there's a full version of them from pgconf dublin that you might like too then, and full length articles for each slides section too 22:48:21 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.21] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:48:40 http://tapoueh.org/confs/2013/10/29-pgconfeu-2013 and http://tapoueh.org/blog/2014/02/FOSDEM-Extensions 22:48:48 good, I'll read'em 22:49:14 meiji11 [~user@142.66.56.118] has joined #lisp 22:50:04 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has joined #lisp 22:50:04 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:50:24 hehe, thanks for the support, I'm building up motivation to add some 22:51:01 There are plenty of pioneers ready to support ecl, for the right incentive. Ie. as soon as you free them from the Romulan jails. 22:52:13 sounds a lot like another difference between theory and practice 22:52:53 -!- lemex [~irc@49.14.136.82] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 22:53:08 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:53:32 dim: why. can't you launch a rescue mission? 22:54:47 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:58:12 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:23 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:15 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@bl20-18-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:02:01 killmaster [~killmaste@bl6-118-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:02:09 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04:45 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:54 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@194.Red-79-150-121.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 23:05:49 quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-232-150.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:06:16 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:08:07 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:25 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:06 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:10:22 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.254.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:05 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has joined #lisp 23:16:28 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:16:29 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:02 sohail_ [~sohail@75.119.248.79] has joined #lisp 23:19:41 frx [~a@93-138-116-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:19:52 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 23:24:50 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:38 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-47.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 23:25:38 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-47.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 23:25:38 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 23:25:55 fe[nl]ix, adding ECL is not that hard — it might already be working and/or all you have to do might be to explicitly do nothing instead of something. 23:26:27 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75.119.248.79] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:27:27 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:01 -!- Vivitron``` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:01 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-54-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:30:44 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:31:27 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.209.190] has joined #lisp 23:31:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.209.190] has quit [Changing host] 23:31:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 23:33:00 andreh [~andreh@189.27.16.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:34:04 Xach: BTW, what damage is that? 23:34:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:49 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:15 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has joined #lisp 23:39:34 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:37 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:43:24 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.122.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:23 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:24 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-74-175.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 23:45:44 Slashed system names are causing plenty of problems. 23:45:53 Bloat is also annoying. 23:46:12 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 23:46:50 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.150.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:49:02 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:50:12 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:51:06 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:35 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:09 Vivitron`` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:45 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:57:06 ASau` [~user@p54AFFF0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp