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ZZZzzz] 00:11:08 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 00:12:10 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 00:13:31 -!- Vivitron` [~user@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:13:56 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:06 jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:25:07 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-156-64.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:18 -!- jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 00:25:46 jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:26:13 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has joined #lisp 00:26:13 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has quit [Changing host] 00:26:13 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 00:32:47 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 00:33:57 ranko [~ranko@2600:1010:b027:e48e:1c6e:6ff:fe15:8f81] has joined #lisp 00:38:46 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:50 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:40:54 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505b:d1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:48 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:49:56 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:54:54 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:00:01 fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has joined #lisp 01:00:48 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:57 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:55 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.120.248] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 01:10:10 oxum [~oxum@122.164.120.248] has joined #lisp 01:11:54 -!- ranko [~ranko@2600:1010:b027:e48e:1c6e:6ff:fe15:8f81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:00 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:45 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.94.83] has joined #lisp 01:34:19 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:37:42 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:38:31 what's the benefit of using deftype? 01:39:04 ubikation`, Nominal abstraction? 01:39:11 Why use function names instead of lambdas everywhere? 01:41:45 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:29 yrk [~user@c-76-24-229-126.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:44 -!- yrk [~user@c-76-24-229-126.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:42:44 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 01:46:24 Quadrescence: it seems to me that deftype isn't used in cl because it's dynamically typed and that new types are just a pain to write code for/for the compiler to reason about. 01:47:12 ubikation`, It is used in CL. Just like typedef is used in C. 01:47:19 deftype just provides aliases for existing types. 01:47:32 I'm reading this http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1495 atm 01:48:00 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@pool-108-53-20-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:10 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has joined #lisp 01:48:29 lisp-interface-library seems really cool, but it also seems to require me to have a much larger brain and patience 01:48:41 patience with learning it 01:49:57 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:50:51 ubikation`, if you didn't know, I wrote that 01:51:01 -!- Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@pool-108-53-20-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:51:02 (not LIL; Fare wrote that) 01:51:14 I didn't! that's really cool 01:51:51 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:b:d14b:33cf:8480:959d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:03 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:49 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@pool-108-53-20-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:39 -!- axion_ [~axion@static-71-245-156-232.alb.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:55:57 pjb` [~t@90.24.130.7] has joined #lisp 01:56:50 also it looks like someone mentioned cl-step but I can't find it on cliki or ql. 01:58:10 -!- Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@pool-108-53-20-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:08 -!- pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-131-124.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:04:42 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:19 what are anologous to the events of js? 02:09:28 -!- MrWoohoo2 [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:12:12 I know that's a stupid question... since js is in the browser and basically a library that is tied to io from the browser 02:12:30 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:6477:baba:ef5:121e] has joined #lisp 02:19:23 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 02:22:46 Bike_ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 02:22:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:56 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:23:55 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1B3D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:23 -!- jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:09 ubikation`: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper) (defpackage "YOUR-PROGRAM" (:use "CL-STEPPER")) (in-package "YOUR-PROGRAM") (defun f ) (step (f )) 02:35:08 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:36:21 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:41 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 02:37:35 ubikation`: in CL, you are the master. You don't depend on a framework to send you events. You can choose whether you want an event driven application or not. 02:38:46 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:59 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 02:40:45 *|3b|* would say that "events" are the cl analog of js "events", and as suggested, in both cases it is more of a library issue than language issue 02:41:45 <|3b|> in both cases a particular pattern of storing function objects to be called later in some specific situation 02:44:20 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:37 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:37 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f69ac5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:49:07 chenjf [~chenjf@117.136.34.64] has joined #lisp 02:49:42 |3b|: what is an event in cl though? is calling a function an event? or is it something else? 02:49:57 <|3b|> if you call it an event, it is an event 02:50:01 <|3b|> same as in JS 02:50:36 <|3b|> similar things are called "callbacks" in other contexts, a function you store and later call in some specific situation 02:51:43 The difference is who fires the events ? 02:52:27 <|3b|> not really 02:55:50 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:30 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 02:58:10 (defstruct event who fires) 02:59:54 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:16 (cffi:defcallback event :void () (values)) 03:01:43 (defun event (fn &rest args) (apply fn args)) 03:02:19 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f67763.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 03:03:33 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:50 It is easier to demonstrate event-driven programming in GUI applications 03:05:21 <|3b|> also common with asynchronous IO 03:05:33 sure 03:07:28 <|3b|> some people call it an "event" when you process a node in an xml document though, so you could argue 'foo' in (mapcar #'foo list) is an "event handler" :p 03:07:31 -!- bitwize [~bitwize@c-98-216-250-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:08:07 (loop (read-event socket)) 03:09:00 bitwize [~bitwize@c-98-216-250-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:18 *drewc* is doing "(irc:read-message-loop *connection*)" right now, so is in fact handling events that are fired over a socket from the IRC server 03:09:41 does that count as an "event"? 03:09:58 why not ? 03:10:49 well, that asks a question What is _not_ an event ... or: verbs and nouns and!? 03:13:01 Things who activate an asynchronous handling can be regarded as an event ? 03:15:28 I just got confused because people talk about events in terms of io... but isn't the interaction between parts of a program also 'events'? 03:16:00 I would call erlang messages events 03:16:03 so, events are async only, and only those that activate handlers are termed "event"s ? And they are people, the events? so WHO and not WHAT? 03:16:15 <|3b|> ubikation`: depends on how you define "events" 03:16:17 events can be applied as a solution to io, but they aren't necessarily the only problem they can solve 03:16:18 but does that make clos method dispatch events as well? 03:17:13 <|3b|> if you want to define "event" that way, or it could just be a particular implementation strategy of whatever you call "events" 03:17:37 in my mind the issue is this: (f (g x)) calls f on the result of (g x) 03:18:16 but what about a situation where it's more like (g x) creates an 'event' that is sent to f 03:18:18 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:19:00 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:26 does that pattern exist in cl? 03:19:48 I mean I'm sure it does; I just don't know the words for all this fancy stuff 03:20:05 you mean that (g x) is the continuation of (f ...) ? OR : what exactly are you referring to by 'event' here exactly? 03:20:06 <|3b|> not in CL itself, but plenty of CL libraries use the term "event" 03:20:24 <|3b|> mostly async io and UI libs 03:21:24 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:44 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:53 drewc: I understand that you want me to be clear, but frankly I can't really. I don't have a clear understanding of it. All I know for sure is that (f (g x)) seems like an obvious sequence of computation linearly. But I want to create a bunch of functions/objects and shove them around and see what happens. 03:22:37 basically, I want to create something so that (g x) calls f instead? 03:23:06 which obviously doesn't make sense; it would have to be clos based 03:23:12 ubikation`: What you are saying makes little sense, so I will simply smile and nod and say "you should look into things a wee bit more" :) 03:23:21 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:6477:baba:ef5:121e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:29 huh? why? 03:23:43 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:45 <|3b|> no need for clos, "store a function" works just fine, same as in JS 03:23:59 drewc: I guess I'm not explaining myself correctly, and you are right I don't have a proper understanding of cl. 03:24:07 ignore me actually, I don't want to try and make sense out of non ... sense. :P 03:24:25 <|3b|> though clos can make a nice alternative, instead of storing a function, you could just define a method on some specific "event handler" generic function 03:24:27 drewc: but the point is that (f(g x)) calls f on the result of (g x) 03:24:41 ubikation`: define result 03:25:10 the finished computation 03:25:37 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:25:37 <|3b|> ubikation`: (defparameter *on-foo* #'identity) (setf *on-foo* (lambda (a) (do-something-with a))) (funcall *on-foo* (g x)) 03:25:40 *drewc* is thinking of HANDLERs of course, and dynamic -BINDs 03:27:08 |3b|: I think that's what I'm looking for? 03:27:12 drewc: what do you mean by that 03:32:10 I mean that, since you defined result as "the finished computation", well, it can be anything and have nothing at all to do with the computation that #'g is/was supposed to do ... you seem to not be all the familiar with computers in general, and Turing machines in specific... so honestly I cannot say what I mean per se, only that "dynamic -BINDs" and continuations and (class-of (function car)) is certainly something to look into :D 03:33:01 *drewc* will not even get into quantum computing, even though the local one is programmed in Lisp! 03:33:12 dwave? 03:34:08 yeah... amazing that other folks know! I have not visited them since like 2008 or so, but they are still going and still lisping.. 03:35:02 *drewc* was at their IPO free champagne, CL and quanta .... mmmmm 03:35:12 it's really awesome that they are using cl 03:36:44 I would not really call it CL ...... at all .... it is not really CL from what I have seen/know etc. 03:36:59 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.120.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:21 But it is somewhat "common" lisp-like. 03:37:51 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-160-0-80.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:39:44 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-160-0-80.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:33 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 03:42:45 Thank you! 03:42:46 -!- ubikation` [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:46:34 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.94.83] has left #lisp 03:48:27 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 03:54:58 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:dce:9cdc:dfb7:5f8b] has joined #lisp 03:55:52 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 03:56:08 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:57:33 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:04 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Hello loke_erc`. 09:07:05 pvaneynd [pvaneynd@conference/fosdem/x-izvdivgbclqqmziz] has joined #lisp 09:08:29 wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 09:13:13 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:13:39 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:14:40 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@162.243.235.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:49 wormphle1m [~wormphleg@162.243.235.129] has joined #lisp 09:15:42 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:10 Hello beach 09:17:21 *loke_erc`* is sitting in the airport lounge 09:17:32 I have to get to the gate soon 09:19:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:22:42 -!- loke_erc` [~user@smb-rcdg2-01.wifihubtelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:36 asedeno_ [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 09:24:39 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has quit 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[~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:47:49 wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 11:50:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-216.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:54:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 11:55:14 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:56:23 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:03 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:27 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-098-074-142.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:08:03 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-149-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:13 loke_erc: headed to america to hack on lisp? 12:08:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 12:08:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 12:08:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:11:33 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:12:44 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:13:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: do not stand down] 12:13:35 pvaneynd [pvaneynd@conference/fosdem/x-ynoikmflkzgwegzc] has joined #lisp 12:15:31 pvaneynd1 [pvaneynd@conference/fosdem/x-wzempbpgcwaayqpo] has joined #lisp 12:18:03 -!- pvaneynd [pvaneynd@conference/fosdem/x-ynoikmflkzgwegzc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:22:13 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:22:15 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:25:59 *H4ns* is headed to europe to hack on lisp :) 12:27:19 hooray 12:28:08 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:09 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-236-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:32:10 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:21 liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dba8c8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:13 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:36:25 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dba8c8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:36:32 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has joined #lisp 12:36:40 *Shinmera* will have to stop working with lisp for a while to focus on university :( 12:37:01 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-153-116.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-153-116.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 12:37:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:42:33 -!- sid_cypher [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:46:51 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:46:57 MoALTz_ [~no@host81-153-176-198.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-42-132.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:58:45 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:05:14 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.31.238] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 sid_cypher [~sid@yaaf.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:50 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-236-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:09:22 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 13:09:25 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:02 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:57 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:15:55 What are you, guys, talking about? 13:17:16 Lisp and the hacking on thereof 13:18:53 much lisp. 13:18:59 I see. I just thought you were talking about some kind of upcoming Lisp event. 13:19:02 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.72] has joined #lisp 13:20:24 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:20:58 alezost [~user@128-70-204-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:11 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:51 -!- sid_cypher [~sid@yaaf.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:24:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:24:35 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-95-112.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:24:51 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-246-108.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:39 hitecnologys: there are upcoming lisp events. 13:25:51 Soon in Paris, ELS2014. 13:26:26 eclm in berlin in fall 13:27:26 I like it when phases on 13:27:33 irc have the same length. 13:27:35 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-46.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:37 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qcnyzimskqvexzfz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:29:07 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 13:29:29 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-duatfcqmlvlojzma] has joined #lisp 13:30:39 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-246-108.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:31:02 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-46.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:29 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:19 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 Well, who doesn't like it? 13:33:29 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-95-112.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 13:34:42 przl [~przlrkt@178.19.216.162] has joined #lisp 13:35:12 -!- przl [~przlrkt@178.19.216.162] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35:26 I wonder how will msg_len(n)=sin(n) look. 13:35:42 przl [~przlrkt@178.19.216.162] has joined #lisp 13:35:47 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:36:18 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:38:31 Well, it should be something like sin(n)*k but whatever. 13:41:20 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has joined #lisp 13:44:24 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-246-108.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:53 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:35 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:58:44 amaron [~amaron@net184-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #lisp 14:03:20 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:04:03 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:06:23 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:15 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.31.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[Client Quit] 16:08:02 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:47 cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:57 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:53 easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:16:20 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:39 brandonz_ [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:12 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 16:21:58 -!- Guest83082 is now known as pjb 16:23:18 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:05 cgore [~cgore@108-209-245-92.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:46 -!- cgore [~cgore@108-209-245-92.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:50 -!- 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16:51:44 pjb, I was looking at your sedit.lisp (I had done something simliar here https://github.com/burrows-labs/meta/blob/master/fns.lisp). 16:51:48 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:11 Do you think using the pretty-printer is a good way to output the lisp form? 16:52:13 -!- jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:32 I'm thinking about how to go about coloring/highlighting different subforms. 16:53:55 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:54:13 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:11 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:57 -!- guardianx [guardian@124-171-202-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:41 hiroakip 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(it is still morning here for 15 minutes :)) 19:50:35 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:56 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:54:06 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3291.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:36 sohail__ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:00 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 19:58:59 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 19:58:59 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 19:59:57 pjb, https://github.com/burrows-labs/meta/blob/master/pprint.lisp 20:05:38 -!- Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:23 Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has joined #lisp 20:07:03 -!- p_l|backup [~pl@146.185.153.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:29 p_l|backup [~pl@146.185.153.36] has joined #lisp 20:07:35 znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has joined #lisp 20:07:59 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3291.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:10:42 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:10:57 -!- mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:49 -!- znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:09 -!- pierpa [~user@host106-247-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:16:50 -!- Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:33 Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has joined #lisp 20:17:38 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3291.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:18:32 mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has joined #lisp 20:19:01 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:19:54 fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has joined #lisp 20:20:21 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dba8c8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:20:52 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:56 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.60.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:07 wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 20:23:07 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b476:8479:4d0e:c5fc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:23:33 -!- mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:23:47 -!- AeroNotix [~AeroNotix@37.139.18.183] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:24:12 AeroNotix [~AeroNotix@37.139.18.183] has joined #lisp 20:24:29 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:24:59 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E1492.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:39 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:29 -!- pedro_ [~pedro@host170.201-253-242.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:12 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:27 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:45 -!- wheelsucker [~user@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:28:53 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 20:29:23 -!- Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:29:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-48-182.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:29 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:33:42 -!- sohail__ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:34:15 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:11 Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has joined #lisp 20:37:24 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0C5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:59 -!- sirdancealo3 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:47 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-142.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: zajn] 20:41:15 -!- Zag [~Zag@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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22:22:37 (quicker than just printing individual digits myself) 22:23:35 *Adlai* thought the algorithm was returning garbage... turns out the sample data (which was rationals) was being misprinted 22:24:04 sohail__ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:20 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:46 -!- Guest61735 [~Daniel@bl16-102-113.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:27:23 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 22:27:36 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:05 Adlai: ~a will print rationals as fractions, if that's what you're asking 22:31:45 fchurca: I want accurately printed decimals 22:32:14 *Adlai* settles with ~F right now because this isn't a life-or-death issue 22:32:46 you can customise the precision for ~f if needed; for example: (format t "~,5f" pi); 3.14159 22:34:48 it'll print more digits from the float, but it coerces the rational to a float before doing so 22:34:52 H4ns: I thought you were migrating to SML :D 22:34:53 thus it prints more incorrect digits 22:38:45 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:40:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:35 -!- karswell [~user@134.114.90.146.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:43:03 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-098-065-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:15 Adlai: I take it you've already tried looking for bigfloat libraries? 22:43:50 fchurca: doesn't really fit my needs, but thanks :) 22:44:34 nyef [~nyef@pool-108-7-220-91.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:46 Good evening, all. 22:45:16 hi nyef 22:45:25 good afternoon nyef 22:45:47 hi drewc 22:46:05 I have a spec-interpretation question today, this time to do with "Issue STREAM-DEFINITION-BY-USER". 22:46:13 hey hey fe[nl]ix, long time no chat! 22:46:31 Are methods on STREAM-LISTEN required to return (MEMBER T NIL), or merely a generalized boolean? 22:47:20 bgs100 [~nitrogen@h113.117.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:22 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@h113.117.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:47:22 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:47:30 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:48:07 nyef: good question 22:48:34 (This is relevant to what I'm working on, because I have two systems that disagree in their interpretation, causing rather interesting errors.) 22:48:56 Adlai: how about wu-decimal? I haven't used it myself tho, so I can't warranty it 22:48:58 nyef: generalized afaik .. 22:49:04 is there a copy of Gray's proposal on the web ? 22:49:11 it says "true or false" 22:49:12 I can't find it 22:49:24 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/Issues/stream-definition-by-user.html 22:49:53 and http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/26_glo_t.htm says "true n. any object that is not false and that is used to represent the success of a predicate test. See t[1]." 22:50:14 That's the conclusion that I'm coming to. 22:51:59 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:06 And I'm sure that the two of you (drewc and fe[nl]ix) can name the two systems that I was looking at when I formed this question. 22:52:35 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:40 (Especially when I mention APNs.) 22:52:47 cl+ssl and iolib ? 22:52:50 trivial- and sb-gray? :P 22:53:01 And each of you are half right. 22:53:10 hahaha 22:53:11 Adlai: there's a package decimals 22:53:25 :D 22:53:33 trivial-gray-streams and cl+ssl then 22:53:34 Adlai: in it, (format-decimal-number -100/6 :round-magnitude -3) ; "-16.667" 22:53:36 CL+SSL returns a generalized boolean (the next octet to be read), but SBCL requires that it be a boolean. 22:54:41 fchurca: yay, another dependency for my project :P 22:54:52 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:26 nyef: strange 22:55:29 So my next tasks in this direction are to come up with a workaround, either by hot-patching CL+SSL, hot-patching SBCL, or by watching for the specific error condition, and to work up some fix for SBCL. 22:56:29 What surprised me was that the bug wasn't in CL+SSL this time. I mean, SBCL is usually pretty solid, and I've had so much other trouble from CL+SSL... 22:57:17 Adlai: At least it does what you want. It's in the public domain, so you could incorporate only what you need from it. 22:57:32 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 22:57:43 oh cool 22:57:48 thanks! 22:57:49 (Documentation, error condition classes, gray stream conformance, and that bit with the cypher control, for the record.) 22:58:49 Adlai: thank teemu likonen who wrote it :P 23:00:01 *Adlai* thanks fchurca for pointing it out 23:00:16 *fchurca* feels flattered 23:00:35 does teemu hang out here? 23:00:58 (are there lisp programmers who don't!? (yes, me for three years...)) 23:01:04 the next Intel architecture will have support for array bounds checking :) 23:01:16 -!- eraaij [~eraaij@dhcp-089-099-104-233.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: eraaij] 23:01:21 fe[nl]ix: for pascal arrays? 23:01:26 (length before data) 23:01:28 nyef: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MPX and https://lwn.net/Articles/582739/ 23:02:22 Adlai: it's a bit more complicated 23:02:39 fe[nl]ix: yeah, I glanced at the articles and ran away 23:03:01 my mind doesn't have that many registers 23:03:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:09 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:05:11 Hrm... I have no idea if that would actually be useful for us or not. 23:06:20 I guess those instructions generate a trap in case of invalid offset 23:06:27 and you can turn that into an exception 23:07:14 but that would mean that each array access would have to be decorated by 4 new assembly instructions, if the example in that documentation file is correct 23:07:27 Yeah, that's the impression I got, another synchronous signal, probably delivered as SIGSEGV. 23:07:31 znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has joined #lisp 23:08:09 -!- akersof [~akersof@gateway/tor-sasl/akersof] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:46 there's also https://lwn.net/Articles/582712/ if you have a subscription 23:10:58 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:14 -!- znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:12:37 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.207.126] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 23:12:51 oxum [~oxum@122.164.207.126] has joined #lisp 23:14:14 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:15:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:16:13 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:17:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:20:02 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:18 hugoduncan [~user@69.157.171.126] has joined #lisp 23:26:06 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:23 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-29-143.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:51 -!- hugod [~user@69.157.171.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:02 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:28:02 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:22 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:28:33 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:26 akersof [~akersof@gateway/tor-sasl/akersof] has joined #lisp 23:32:20 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 23:36:26 -!- amaron [~amaron@net184-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:38:42 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:00 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:02 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-4-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:47:14 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:48:39 effy_ [~x@114.253.32.17] has joined #lisp 23:49:15 -!- effy [~x@111.197.239.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:53:01 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 23:53:56 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:54:55 stanislav [~stanislav@bl16-78-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:55:00 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:56:45 ASau` [~user@p54AFF8D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp