00:00:10 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE351.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:00:12 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@55.Red-88-5-225.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:04 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:37 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:47 frx [~a@31.45.226.52] has joined #lisp 00:14:00 Ugh, I wish regular expressions were as simple as (cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all "-[a-z]" "foo-bar-baz" "[A-Z]") to get "fooBarBaz". 00:15:38 hmmm (cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all "-[a-z]" "foo-bar-baz" #'string-upcase :simple-calls t) almost works 00:16:20 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:16:27 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 00:16:29 This is why I prefer Lispy stuff to arcane string manipulation, I can just feed in a lambda. :D 00:16:34 Can't you do that with the grouping syntax. i.e. "-([a-z])" 00:19:29 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:38 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:02 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 00:21:29 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:54 <_death> there's also (cffi:translate-camelcase-name 'foo-bar-baz) 00:22:19 damn it 00:23:57 oh, ok I can still use cl-ppcre because that's a 90% solution, not a 100% solution. 00:24:04 thanks though that saves a lot of effort 00:24:50 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:25:17 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:29 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.96.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:30 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:23 I'm actually kind of impressed by how easy certain things are to do in Lisp. 00:28:00 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2cd0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:12 The real question will be how fast it can get. 00:28:45 I'm betting on fast enough 00:29:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:57 Well, I'm making a voxel game engine. 00:30:01 oleo_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-151.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:05 It can get pretty speedy if you do the right things 00:31:44 Yeah, unfortunately this whole domain is a C and C++ universe. :-/ 00:32:10 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:33:17 Clever algorithms should be easier to implement (and test, and reason about) in lisp, though. 00:33:19 From what I've seen sbcl seems to have a lot of optimizations available. 00:33:30 -!- oleo [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-196-18.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:34:11 Yes, I tried to get involved with an open source game written in C++ a while back. Wow C++ can be a mess. 00:35:05 back in the days of Sheeple, sykopomp and I tried reading V8 00:35:08 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:18 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:35:41 Ideally, even if I have to eventually add in a million unreadable hacks, perhaps I can just disguise them with macros to look like regular Lisp. 00:36:14 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:36:23 If you cloak your unreadability in readability, is it still unreadable? 00:36:55 -!- Adeon is now known as MaryPoppins 00:38:01 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:21 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:16 Have you seen the code that ECL generates? 00:42:25 splittist__: Isn't that the whole point behind programming languages in the first place? 00:43:02 JuniorRoy [~dev-fedor@217.118.79.22] has joined #lisp 00:43:37 Especially declarative languages. 00:44:03 -!- frx [~a@31.45.226.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:36 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:47 frx [~a@31.45.226.52] has joined #lisp 00:47:07 -!- percopal [~percopal@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: percopal] 00:47:24 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:50 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:51:30 -!- MaryPoppins is now known as Adeon 00:52:46 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.92.178] has joined #lisp 00:53:00 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:54:16 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev-fedor@217.118.79.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:29 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:57:42 JuniorRoy [~dev-fedor@217.118.79.22] has joined #lisp 00:59:59 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:59 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:42 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:12:14 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:13:57 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:59 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:25 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-43-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:21:14 Both (ql:available-client-versions) and (ql:client-url) reports "*** - open: File #P"/home/***/quicklisp/client-info.sexp" does not exist" ? 01:21:47 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:50 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 01:23:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:55 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:59 zRecursive: _death was talking about that before. I don't think Xach is on. 01:25:08 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:13 ok 01:25:25 zRecursive: _death downloaded it manually from http://alpha.quicklisp.org/client/2014-01-28/client-info.sexp 01:27:28 pillton: thx 01:29:53 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:10 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:41 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:15 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:32:15 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 01:34:55 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:11 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:24 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:24 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:43:06 Oh wow, FORMAT is amazingly complex. 01:43:17 This is really cool for turning lists into strings. 01:46:25 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:25 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:51 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 01:51:34 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:34 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:35 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:53:37 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:54 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:54 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:56 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:57:05 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:29 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:59:35 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.90.228.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:53 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:08 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:55 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:08 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:04 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.35.188.160] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 aeth: "Oh wow, FORMAT is amazingly complex" indeed, and i think your going to enjoy this language 02:09:54 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:12 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:21 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:13:42 fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has joined #lisp 02:13:45 i wonder if there are alternatives to formatter  suitable for (format t (alternative-formatter ) )  must be 02:14:20 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:56 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:13 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:35 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:53 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:18:59 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:17 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:19:25 Probably. 02:19:32 This is Lisp, there's always an alternative. 02:19:54 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:07 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:22 bhyde: It looks like any function that follows the same argument convention as that returned by FORMATTER is valid as the second parameter to FORMAT. 02:21:44 FORMATTER itself, however, requires a string. 02:21:57 it is, but i don't know any intended replacements for formatter 02:21:58 sure, i seeking cool hacks that leverage that affordance 02:22:16 you can use them on anything that takes a format control, though, like error 02:23:51 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 02:23:54 maybe (format t (printf ) ) LOL 02:24:05 though (error (myformatter ...) ...) isn't quite as nice as (error "format string here" ...) 02:24:53 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:02 Hrm. A printf->format string converter? 02:25:08 I had an assignment to write a function that takes a number up to 10^63 and prints out how you would say it in english with no restriction for the language used 02:25:08 snamich, memo from pkhuong: ask douglas katzman. 02:25:10 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:21 teacher said I couldn't use (format t "~r" num) though :( 02:26:18 snamich: I saw a really clever implementation of that in "Function Machines", once. Only it didn't just print it, it also dumped it through a speech synthesizer. 02:27:10 or maybe a converter for perl's format -- http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/format.html 02:27:36 lol, I ended up throwing something together in haskell, was bummed that I had a use for ~r and couldn't use it though 02:28:33 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:28:35 You can also make an argument that there IS a restriction on the language used... And implement a version that produces the Italian version rather than the English version. Or maybe Swahili... 02:29:56 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:59 snamich: Why did you even ask if FORMAT was allowed? :-P 02:30:05 snamich: one zero zero zero one one zero zero one ... :) 02:30:07 If the rules didn't forbid it beforehand... 02:30:10 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:03 It's an assignment from a "teacher", which implies that one is expected to learn how to IMPLEMENT such logic, not merely use a library that already implements the logic. 02:33:09 depending on how you look at it, it's kind of a cheesy move 02:33:17 nyef: Yes, but it's not a library. 02:33:18 :-P 02:34:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:45 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D02B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:55 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:09 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:24 fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has joined #lisp 02:37:39 aeth: Are you sure about that? Have a look at issue SUBSETTING-POSITION:NONE. 02:39:54 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:07 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:35 -!- Buuyo [~tktktktk@S0106d4ca6dbadfa2.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 02:41:58 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:44:13 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 02:44:55 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:09 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 02:49:30 KDr2 [~KDr2@117.36.48.127] has joined #lisp 02:49:55 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:09 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:42 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 02:54:58 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:12 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:23 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:59:56 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:09 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:43 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:46 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 03:04:29 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:56 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:12 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:15 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:07:21 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has joined #lisp 03:09:59 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:14 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:11 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:57 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:10 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:16:56 g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:59 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:08 -!- g-the-2nd is now known as genericus 03:17:54 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:18:24 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 03:19:57 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:13 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:20 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 03:22:48 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:24:57 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:10 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:41 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.77.33] has joined #lisp 03:26:44 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.77.33] has quit [Changing host] 03:26:44 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 03:27:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 03:27:59 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@117.35.188.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:22 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-88-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 03:29:59 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:15 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:32:20 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 03:33:34 -!- frx [~a@31.45.226.52] has quit [] 03:35:01 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:15 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:48 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 evening folks 03:40:01 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:14 Hello slyrus. 03:40:17 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:32 hey nyef -- I was getting excited about the ARM port after reading about the 8-core AMD ARM chips 03:43:05 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.35.188.160] has joined #lisp 03:44:29 ... You realize that it's going to be almost impossible to get threading to work on ARM, right? 03:44:58 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 Well, that's why you have processes. :) 03:45:11 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:27 nyef: no, I didn't. 03:46:20 The ARM backend is dreadfully tight on registers, to the point where I've been finding out what the practical minimum numbers of boxed and unboxed registers are. 03:47:39 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:20 Still, if I can scare up the time and focus to sort out the floating-point stuff, we should be getting into the real debugging part of things, where we actually have enough of the system in place to run at least part of !cold-init. 03:49:58 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:11 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:01 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:15 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:18 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:58:35 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:45 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:59:59 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:12 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:09 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:08 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.40.204] has joined #lisp 04:05:02 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:16 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:24 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-12-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:50 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch786@ne102616l.eng.utoledo.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10:00 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:13 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:12 akersof [~akersof@gateway/tor-sasl/akersof] has joined #lisp 04:14:35 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.40.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:15:00 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:16 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:44 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 04:16:53 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-12-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:00 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:13 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:58 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:21:01 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:21:07 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:21 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 04:24:40 -!- ered [~ered@184-23-27-241.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:25:00 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:13 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:01 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:17 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:21 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:32:11 -!- cantstanya [~hello@unaffiliated/cantstanya] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:34:59 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:02 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:35:15 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39:04 clop2 [~jared@99-23-195-115.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:15 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:40:02 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:15 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:57 hi, i just tried to install quicklisp on ccl and got a error, failed to rename file tmp/fetch.dat to tmp/tmp/client-info.sexp: -2, while executing rename-file, does that sound familiar to anyone? 04:40:58 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 04:41:17 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:17 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:41:56 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 04:42:05 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:43:13 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:43:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:43:23 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:03 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:33 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:46 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:46:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:46:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has joined #lisp 04:49:26 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:50:04 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:19 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:02 -!- nexusIX [~egoIX@c-66-235-0-222.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:54:27 nexusIX [~egoIX@c-66-235-0-222.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:04 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:05 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55:20 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:17 -!- davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:58 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 05:00:01 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:17 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:17 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:04:06 -!- joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:04:20 joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has joined #lisp 05:05:03 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:12 -!- cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-ppauofdinqjobpdy] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 05:05:18 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:18 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:27 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.171.114] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 05:06:33 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:06:44 oxum [~oxum@122.164.171.114] has joined #lisp 05:06:46 cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-ilrfgmerprdfsbcf] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.171.114] has quit [Client Quit] 05:10:04 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:16 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:07 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:15:01 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:01 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:14 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 05:17:40 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:03 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:18 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:15 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:25:04 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:20 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:58 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:26:22 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:23 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:06 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:30:22 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:13 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:33:21 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev-fedor@217.118.79.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:34:03 -!- nexusIX [~egoIX@c-66-235-0-222.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:34:17 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:34:39 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:05 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:29 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:03 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:10 alezost [~user@128-70-204-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:40:19 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:33 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:07 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:34 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 05:50:06 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:24 nexusIX [~egoIX@c-66-235-0-222.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:47 JuniorRoy [~dev-fedor@217.118.79.22] has joined #lisp 05:54:08 -!- oleo_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-151.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:55:03 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:18 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:58:54 oxum [~oxum@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 06:00:04 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:20 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:25 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:41 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 06:01:46 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:49 -!- nexusIX [~egoIX@c-66-235-0-222.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:05:08 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:24 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:51 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:10:08 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:21 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:12 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-88-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:15:09 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:16:41 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 06:16:57 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:08 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 06:21:31 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:21:33 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:25:08 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:21 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:22 oxum [~oxum@122.164.157.207] has joined #lisp 06:25:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-89.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:28:08 harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:30:09 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:24 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:42 Do people use hash-tables as sets? 06:31:15 I can use the value as the hash-table key - what do you put as the hash-table value? t? nil? 06:31:53 This set will be too big for a list. 06:32:34 <|3b|> t or the key 06:32:38 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:32:40 <|3b|> if there is nothing better 06:33:29 Do you mean if there is nothing better to put as the value or use a different data structure? 06:33:46 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 06:34:00 <|3b|> if nothing better for the values 06:34:40 Common Lisp seems a bit data-structure poor - no sets, no b-trees, no queues. Is there a reason - other than historical? 06:35:06 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:10 <|3b|> probably mostly historical 06:35:20 <|3b|> it uses lists for sets 06:35:22 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:29 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:43 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has quit [Quit: h] 06:37:09 lists for sets - means linear-time lookup and constant time addition - correct (I'm 99.999% certain)? 06:37:29 *|3b|* doesn't remember any more complicated data structures in other comparably old languages i've used either 06:37:35 well, addition of one element, yeah 06:37:54 assuming you don't mind duplicates... 06:38:10 Right - duplicates. 06:38:14 which i suppose you don't, since all it does is make lookup times even worse :) 06:40:05 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:22 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:43:40 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has left #lisp 06:45:09 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:26 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 06:50:10 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:21 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:31 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:57 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:09 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:04 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:56:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:56:59 This is amazing. In Common Lisp I can semantically search/manipulate my entire 168 source file C++ code base as one big, complex data structure. 06:57:33 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:58:03 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:11 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:26 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 07:01:56 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:02:46 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:49 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:05:11 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:24 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:31 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:08:11 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 07:09:48 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:10:11 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:25 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:43 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 07:15:11 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:25 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:15:26 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:53 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 07:17:04 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:17:24 snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:05 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:20:10 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:09 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:21:44 yacks [~py@122.179.86.89] has joined #lisp 07:23:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:25:11 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:27 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:44 drmeister: the mapping of language elements to files is arbitrary. You could write an emacs mode that would take care of storing them to files or database without you messing up with it. Or yourself, once you've loaded it, you could save this data structure spreading in files or into a single file upon whatever criteria you'd wish. 07:28:33 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:28:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:28:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:28:52 STilda [kvirc@176.67.7.184] has joined #lisp 07:28:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:30:13 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:28 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:52 drmeister: lisp is not data structure poor, there are a lot of data structure libraries. 07:31:05 It's not the job of a language to have data structures. 07:33:33 A good language would have no types either: you'd have to declare explicitely the features of all your data types, eg. saying you'd want a (deftype int48 () (mod (expt 2 48))). You'd have to designate a type with a distinguished value for tests: (declare-boolean-false int48 0) so you can write (defun = (a b) (the int48 (- a b))) (if (= 1 2) 'same 'not-same) 07:35:12 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:27 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:28 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:39 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has joined #lisp 07:38:09 y_pe [~user@w-113.cust-13410.ip.static.uno.uk.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:14 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:40:10 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:23 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 07:40:29 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-gqqfgzveaxmenvkk] has joined #lisp 07:40:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-113-236.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:26 -!- kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 07:45:12 nullman [~nullman@c-107-2-95-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:07 Maulidia [~ninda_sil@118.97.95.181] has joined #lisp 07:46:30 -!- Maulidia [~ninda_sil@118.97.95.181] has left #lisp 07:46:39 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:11 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:46 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:56:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:45 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:28 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.207] has joined #lisp 08:01:17 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:04:05 _8hzp [~user@188-67-114-161.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:04:16 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:22 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-yxsyzqxzbyvtfqzl] has joined #lisp 08:04:29 -!- _8hzp` [~user@188-67-114-161.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:29 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:07:57 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 08:08:58 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:19 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 08:15:08 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:15:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:15:48 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:16:38 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 08:19:05 drmeister: a quick-and-easy set implementation is using a hashtable, storing the element as both key & value 08:19:09 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.65.160] has joined #lisp 08:19:43 but yeah, queues & such go into libraries, not language cores 08:20:58 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:54 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b03f2.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:30:05 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-gqqfgzveaxmenvkk] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 08:30:25 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-tosrolrttofasppt] has joined #lisp 08:31:07 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-tosrolrttofasppt] has quit [Client Quit] 08:31:22 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-sbqehjrzaaanogpb] has joined #lisp 08:31:43 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-sbqehjrzaaanogpb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:52 -!- snamich [~snamich@50-1-50-233.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [] 08:32:40 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:e4b8:cf43:dca7:f704] has joined #lisp 08:33:19 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:33:29 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.124.108.30] has joined #lisp 08:33:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:39:06 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:41:15 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:41:31 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:42:16 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:43:25 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:50:56 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:51:39 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b03f2.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:51:48 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 08:52:21 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:52:30 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-yqktmurawynzlnbi] has joined #lisp 08:53:32 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:55:27 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:56:03 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:03:48 ggole [~ggole@106-68-177-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:05:11 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 09:07:52 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 09:17:26 Keequ1 [~other@188.162.65.12] has joined #lisp 09:18:10 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:22 pjb: yeah, in good language you can build yourself a an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of haskell in probably half of your lifetime 09:18:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 fishkzn` [~user@92.255.198.40] has joined #lisp 09:20:51 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:21:27 -!- Keequ1 [~other@188.162.65.12] has quit [Quit: kthxbye] 09:21:30 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:49 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:25:53 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.124.108.30] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:26:23 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:27:06 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:20 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:32:58 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 09:35:34 -!- fishkzn` [~user@92.255.198.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:39:35 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 09:41:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:42:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:47:26 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505b:d1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:48:32 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:54:46 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:14 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 10:02:12 -!- y_pe [~user@w-113.cust-13410.ip.static.uno.uk.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:57 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:05:48 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:44 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has joined #lisp 10:11:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:12:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:14:39 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:15:09 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:15:26 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.255.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:18:02 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:18:33 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFBA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:57 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:19:20 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:20 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:20:43 ASau [~user@p54AFFBA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:21:19 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev-fedor@217.118.79.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:21:45 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.92.178] has left #lisp 10:27:03 vaporatorius [~vaporator@55.Red-88-5-225.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:21 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.77.33] has joined #lisp 10:34:21 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.77.33] has quit [Changing host] 10:34:21 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 10:38:30 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:39:09 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:46:15 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-215-215.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:14 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.66.1] has joined #lisp 10:49:57 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:50:19 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:52:43 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.66.1] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:26 joga [SeyRxcE6@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 11:07:27 -!- staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:48 staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 11:15:17 -!- karswell [~user@87.114.158.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:54 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 11:18:33 in lispworks 6.1, i do (require "comm"), but still i cannot access start-up-server or other functions supposedly in comm 11:18:42 what do i do wrong 11:18:51 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 11:20:04 http://pastebin.com/WkKrDa1E 11:21:11 kbc_: you want to either (use-package :comm) or prefix the symbols from comm using comm: 11:21:29 kbc_: i tend to not use-package a lot, but it can be nice for experimentation 11:21:55 ah that was it, thanks 11:22:27 prxq [~mommer@x2f6c003.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:41 i remember i figured it somehow last night but today i was at loss again 11:23:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has joined #lisp 11:26:10 pierpa [~user@95.236.58.43] has joined #lisp 11:27:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:03 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:43 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:e4b8:cf43:dca7:f704] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:34:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:33 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.157.207] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:43:16 -!- sirdancealot is now known as eoctopus 11:49:07 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-88-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:45 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gyybrfcqwonwoagg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:32 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:54:18 -!- wyan [~wyan@ec2-54-246-94-212.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:54:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-113-236.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57:14 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:01:32 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-125.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:11:11 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:57 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:14:29 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@117.35.188.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:16:52 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.35.188.160] has joined #lisp 12:16:54 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC62E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:31 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:23:29 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 12:24:40 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:56 oxum [~oxum@122.164.171.114] has joined #lisp 12:33:41 -!- CrazyEddy [~epauleted@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:35:19 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:34 aha, bug city 12:38:36 *Xach* fixes 12:40:26 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:41:40 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:49:48 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:50:00 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:51:40 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:48 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:05:58 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:12 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:06:12 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 13:08:45 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:00 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:06 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:14:58 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.207] has joined #lisp 13:18:29 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.86.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:40 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:21:23 -!- atgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-78.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.130.73.27] has joined #lisp 13:21:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.130.73.27] has quit [Changing host] 13:21:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 13:21:41 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:22:17 [A 13:26:17 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:21 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:49 what is the name of the library for a prettier syntax for regexes? 13:30:47 minion: cl-interpol 13:30:48 cl-interpol: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/cl-interpol 13:32:04 stassats: thanks. I always forget that 13:32:54 frx [~a@31.45.225.178] has joined #lisp 13:33:09 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:28 mahmoud [~Mahmoud@unaffiliated/mahmoud] has joined #lisp 13:37:43 lisp vs. clisp, are these two different languages? 13:37:56 clisp is not a language 13:38:24 mahmoud: clisp is an implementation of Common Lisp. 13:38:43 lisp is not a language either 13:38:51 at least anymore 13:38:55 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-177-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:39:08 Common Lisp is a language? 13:39:18 it is 13:39:29 it is a descendant of the original lisp 13:39:30 lisp is just another implmentation? 13:39:40 rather, opposite 13:39:43 lisp is a family of language 13:39:46 common lisp is an implementation of lisp 13:39:52 clisp is an implementation of "common lisp" 13:40:00 is 'lisp' == 'Lisp'? i wonder if Perl vsl perl holds here 13:40:01 common lisp is not an implementation of anything 13:40:03 "common lisp" is a specification of a particular "lisp" 13:40:20 scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:23 okay, it's a specification not an implementation 13:40:27 mahmoud: "lisp" does not exist. it is "Lisp" 13:40:32 isn't it LISP ? 13:40:33 lol 13:40:42 there was a lisp idea, then there was a ton of different implementations of lisp 13:40:51 scoofy: no. it was LISP until the 1970ies 13:40:54 including LISP ;-) 13:41:04 yes. so was originally LISP, not Lisp nor lisp 13:41:06 in the end people got tired of different implementations and decided to consolidate into Common Lisp 13:41:08 it is complicated. 13:41:16 i read that lisp's code can be as fast as C -- that's why i'm here! 13:41:25 faster even 13:41:30 it can be, sometimes, if you try hard 13:41:42 depends who's writing which code 13:42:16 and what problem the code is supposed to solve, to some extend, I guess 13:43:39 temujin [~user@109.87.32.226] has joined #lisp 13:43:50 how is Clojure related to lisp? i wonder why it's plotted in a timeline of lisp stuff in wikipedia 13:43:57 That's true for a bunch of languase 13:44:05 s/languase/languages 13:44:07 the author got inspired by the lisp language 13:44:14 -!- temujin [~user@109.87.32.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:34 and its descendants 13:44:37 Because Clojure is a Lisp 13:44:43 says who? 13:44:54 what makes it a lisp? 13:44:58 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:45:04 What doesn't? 13:45:09 oanufriev` [~user@109.87.32.226] has joined #lisp 13:45:09 Paul Graham had a partical answer to that 13:45:14 then javascript is a lisp 13:45:24 Nope, JS is never a Lisp 13:45:32 http://www.paulgraham.com/diff.html 13:45:34 Based on what ground you say? 13:45:37 cmpitg: depends on who you ask 13:45:49 what i really hope: a dynamic language like perl, except that it has a compiler that allows me to generate machine code so that the application runs without being interpreted any more. what do you guys suggest? 13:46:07 mahmoud: lisp is for you then 13:46:11 SBCL 13:46:25 Them statements were popularized by Douglas Crockford I believe 13:46:29 mahmoud: while it provides for high-level facilities, commmon lisp also allows you to optimize your code to be fast. 13:46:38 Nothing personal, but he doesn't know what a Lisp is 13:46:42 H4ns: manual optimization by me? 13:46:59 cmpitg: and you know? 13:47:00 ya, them statements in them phorms, 133t! 13:47:01 mahmoud: of course. there is only so much the compiler can do for you 13:47:05 cmpitg: pray tell 13:47:20 H4ns: i was hoping to be really lazy 13:47:22 stassats: I believe in Paul Graham and Guy Steele Jr. 13:47:51 mahmoud: there is no free lunch. if you want on-the-fly optimization, a language based on the jvm or javascript are better for you 13:47:56 JS is a Self, not a Lisp 13:48:21 cmpitg: no really? in my book, js is a js 13:48:54 What makes it a JS, or just because it's simple JS? 13:48:58 well, technically JS is ECMAScript 13:49:00 s/simple/simply 13:49:34 or rather, an implementation of ECMAScript 13:50:00 ECMAScript existed becaused of JS, it's the result of the formalization process 13:50:24 that doesn't change the fact that JS is an ECMAScript implementation 13:51:30 ggole [~ggole@124-169-116-250.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:53:11 steel bank common lisp? what has it to do with banks of steel? 13:53:15 i like the name though 13:54:57 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:55:42 stassats: why wouldn't Clojure be a Lisp? Every Lisp building block is there. It doesn't use S-Expressions, but uses an extension of it. And anyway, Dylan *also* didn't use S-Expressions 13:56:00 mahmoud: SBCL is a Common Lisp compiler, much like GCC is a C compiler 13:56:00 mahmoud: it is a descendent of carnegie mellon university common lisp. carnegie made a fortune in steel, and mellon made a fortune in banking. it is not an especially meaningful name. 13:56:58 i'm installing sbcl v1.0.55-r, i wonder if getting v1.1.14 is much better 13:57:07 SBCL is a programming environment that you extend until it does what your project requires. GCC is a little different. 13:57:24 mahmoud: it is better to get 1.1.14 13:57:38 mahmoud: it is better. Ideally, use the binary from sbcl.org 13:57:48 Xach: thanks for the RT yesterday. 13:57:49 Xach: which CL implementation isn't "a programming environment that you extend until it does what your project requires"? 13:57:54 1.1.15 might be worse 13:57:57 Xach: why better 13:58:06 stassats: how so? 13:58:07 bloody users do not test before releases! 13:58:14 Denommus: I'm not sure. 13:58:36 mahmoud: it has more than a year of fixes and improvements incorporated. 13:58:43 mentally I'm on an unstable/stable bi-release assessment 13:58:45 Xach: that's a language characteristic, not particularly tied to a specific implementation 13:58:55 Denommus: OK. 13:59:05 Xach: weird, gentoo's portage ebuild marks them as unstbale 13:59:07 as stassats observes, testing before release is weak. So think of alternate releases as "testing" 13:59:13 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:59:28 *prxq* builds goes to build sbcl from git 13:59:32 mahmoud: you're best off ignoring what your operating system wants to tell you about lisp 13:59:42 When I try the binary from sbcl.org, I get a GLIBC error. 13:59:59 sbcl from git is evidently better than 1.1.15 14:00:01 I end up copying a binary from another system. 14:00:20 -!- hypno_ is now known as hypno 14:00:24 stassats: hm, why is that? 1.1.15 introduced some bug? 14:00:32 Denommus: I don't think SBCL is a Common Lisp compiler very much like gcc is a C compiler, though. 14:00:37 is ansi lisp == common lisp? 14:00:44 yes 14:00:52 ansi common lisp is ansi common lisp. 14:00:58 Xach: I was just comparing the fact that Common Lisp has different compilers, much like C also has them 14:00:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:22 alright, i'm geting the 1.1.14 lisp implementation despite of it being marked unstable 14:01:25 mahmoud: for all intents and purposes, these days 14:01:57 30 years ago there would be a difference 14:02:33 mahmoud: what distro do you use? 14:02:34 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:57 gentoo? 14:03:25 prxq: gentoo linux 14:03:48 i think real men only use either gentoo linux (funtoo is ok), or archlinux 14:03:56 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@117.35.188.160] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:04:07 mahmoud: install 1.0.55 or whatever from your ebuild thing, then download the source for 1.1.14 and compile it yourself. 14:04:17 mahmoud: and please spare us with your claims about "real men" 14:04:28 i'm a rational man 14:04:43 H4ns: my distro has 1.1.14, it just says it's not tested enough or something. usually i ignore this warning as they still work great. gentoo's portage is picky on marking what's stable and not 14:04:47 mahmoud: here, we're concerned with getting lisp to run. if gentoo makes that hard, then i'm rather not a real man. 14:05:08 gentoo will make lisp run, sir. 14:05:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:05:29 it's cooking bscl right now. almost done. 14:05:33 sbcl* 14:05:54 please be offended. you're welcome 14:06:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 14:06:32 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:06:32 ok i'll behave :P 14:06:39 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:55 i guess this is a regulated channelt o maintain good signal/noise ratio. sorry. 14:07:03 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:07:07 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:07:38 vibhav [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has joined #lisp 14:07:54 how would I create a list of n nils? 14:08:10 (make-list 10) 14:11:29 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.119.183] has joined #lisp 14:12:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:13:03 Is it safe/correct to assume you'll get nils without using :initial-element? 14:13:33 `fogus [~fogus@fairoakssw.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:47 yes 14:13:49 It says the default is nil on CLHS, but I just wonder 14:14:00 Twipply: wonder what? 14:14:15 Twipply: a conforming implementation will do what the clhs says 14:14:36 I don't know if it's actually the standard just because this site says so 14:14:40 That's why I asked 14:14:48 If this site is actually following the standard, then cool 14:15:32 it is the standard 14:15:40 Okay, thanks. 14:15:57 there is an official document, but nobody uses it 14:16:16 So I should take anything CLHS says as the law? 14:16:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:27 Twipply: yes. 14:17:08 and then you should check your implementation's documentation for any intentional violations of the law 14:17:45 civil disobedience, if you like 14:19:26 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.20.21] has joined #lisp 14:19:36 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.20.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:44 liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbaa0be.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:10 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbaa0be.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 14:22:30 m4dnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:37 -!- rotty [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:22:56 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:22:59 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:22:59 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:09 -!- akersof [~akersof@gateway/tor-sasl/akersof] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:11 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:28 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:39 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:23:43 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:00 rotty [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 14:24:08 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.95.215] has joined #lisp 14:24:36 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 akersof [~akersof@gateway/tor-sasl/akersof] has joined #lisp 14:25:41 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 14:25:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:55 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:27:02 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 14:29:35 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32:17 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ijailjjuaptugebw] has joined #lisp 14:32:37 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-yxsyzqxzbyvtfqzl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:36:06 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:37:12 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:48 hi 14:41:05 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:47 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:28 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:38 -!- sfa_ [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:47 sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 G'morning all. 14:56:05 lisp looks scary 14:56:35 guess C is easier 14:56:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:04 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:57:37 mahmoud: power comes at a price. 14:57:38 It depends on what you're used to 14:58:18 lisp is not as scary as it looks. 14:58:37 and it's way easier than C 14:58:52 So, I have a bit of a style question. You all know the WITH-foo / CALL-WITH-foo macro/function pair arrangement? Is there a similar setup for a DO-foo macro and an underlying function? 14:59:21 i'd implement it with map-foo 14:59:56 Okay, map-foo seems plausible, thank you. 15:00:50 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:16 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:05:50 mahmoud: depends on what you'd call "easy". Personally, I hate to manually manage my memory resources 15:06:09 mahmoud: Common Lisp is more difficult to learn, but easier to use. C is the opposite 15:07:46 C is easy to learn? 15:07:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:07:54 If you start from zero, Lisp is much easier to learn than C 15:08:03 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:04 it's easy to delude yourself that you know C 15:08:23 loke_erc: C is a lot simpler and has less concepts. Although pointer arithmetic is difficult to grasp, indeed 15:08:55 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-252-58.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:17 francogrex [~user@91.179.194.168] has joined #lisp 15:09:29 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:10:22 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 15:10:32 berryx [~cgiirc@mistero.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 on HD installed debian merging two dirs works very well, mount -t aufs -o dir=dir1:dir2 none dir2; but why in knoppix live CD this same operation messes up although aufs-tolls are installed it gives an unsupported filesystem error? 15:11:26 francogrex: wrong channel 15:11:27 guys, seriously, lisp is hard, lots of ()s 15:11:37 may be cause it's from the late 50s 15:11:40 mahmoud: the () are actually very simple. 15:11:42 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:49 mahmoud: why are () harder than {}? 15:11:50 mahmoud: the () have a great reason to exist 15:11:55 What ()s 15:11:56 no way, imagine complicated logic? you will have tons of them 15:12:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Client Quit] 15:12:05 mahmoud: you sure know how to make friends 15:12:10 mahmoud: so? 15:12:19 mahmoud: maybe common lisp is not for you. 15:12:21 mahmoud: what's difficult about it? Instead of foo(a, b, c) you have (foo a b c) 15:12:27 mahmoud: in C you write foo(2). In Lisp you write (foo 2). Is it really that much of a difference? 15:12:33 mahmoud: are you paying your computer by the number of parentheses that you have to type? 15:13:02 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-88-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:10 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 mahmoud: since everything in Lisp is parentheses, the AST is exposed to you and your editor. Some editors automatically insert the ) for every ( you type 15:13:27 mahmoud: and then they allow you to manipulate your code as a structure, instead of plain text 15:13:39 mahmoud: once you get used to it, editing any other language becomes painful 15:14:00 C: if (blah) {then} 15:14:15 mahmoud: Lisp: (if blah then) 15:14:22 comm. lisp: (if (blah)(then)(else)) 15:14:24 mahmoud: half the number of parens! 15:14:26 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-88-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:31 oh ! sorry it's meant to go to #linux but mly default channel is #lisp 15:14:33 mahmoud: (if blah then else), what's difficult about it? 15:14:53 isn't it more of (if (blah) (then) (else))? 15:15:03 no 15:15:07 mahmoud: (if (blah)(then)(else)) would be if (bla()) then() else else(); 15:15:28 mahmoud: try to overcome your prejudices and simply try to learn the language. There's nothing wrong with the syntax 15:15:36 it helps to know what you're criticizing 15:15:38 mahmoud: you're judging before you've acquired a slight clue. 15:15:46 mahmoud: in fact, it allows you to write code that writes code for you, that's the beauty of Lisp 15:15:59 weird, all websites show me (if (blah) (then)) 15:16:09 mahmoud: "all websites" 15:16:11 mahmoud: what editor do you use? 15:16:15 vim 15:16:17 mahmoud: that is not how you get a clue. 15:16:17 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:16:54 *drmeiste_* remembers back to the great parenthesis shortage in the '70s - when people had to start using {} and [], commas, semicolons and <> - terrible, terrible days. Now parentheses are plentiful again - hurray! 15:16:58 mahmoud: you seem to be having a diarrhea. stay off the crap for a few days then come back when you're all fine 15:17:34 mahmoud: it's (if blah then else). (blah) would be equivalent to blah() 15:17:43 minion: please tell mahmoud about PCL 15:17:44 mahmoud: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:18:34 mahmoud: try to use slimv and paredit.vim, then 15:18:47 ok, using standard expanded notation (not ninja shortcuts), could someone plz rewrite them into lisp using lisp's expanded syntax? http://codepad.org/C8a9Nqbf 15:19:00 ^ a small C code 15:20:03 what is expanded syntax? 15:20:21 like in C, you can say: if (blah) fprintf("lul"); <-- this is NOT expanded 15:20:26 cause it omits braces 15:21:02 if you're trying to learn CL, don't try to compare it to C 15:21:04 or anything 15:21:09 so by expanded form, i mean general form (not one made for special cases) 15:21:12 mahmoud: in lisp, that are no parentheses that you can omit. they all have a meaning. 15:21:26 ok can someone rewrite that into lisp? 15:21:31 you can. 15:21:33 mahmoud: and "expanded form" is not even a term in the c world. please do not make up words. 15:21:43 i'll write it, then i wish if someone approves it, 15:21:45 mahmoud: this C code is wrong, but okay 15:21:49 (if blah firnat 15:22:00 damn fingers. 15:22:11 Denommus: why? 15:22:26 (if blah (format t "lul"))  is that what you're after? 15:22:33 guardianx [guardian@124-148-63-173.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:22:33 mahmoud: if you can't see yourself, then it's obvious you don't know C 15:22:51 you mean main() return #include 15:22:54 mahmoud: http://paste.lisp.org/+30UX 15:23:11 mahmoud: because x==1 && == 0 15:23:19 mahmoud: it's missing an "y" 15:23:41 Denommus: do you see that as beautiful? 15:23:53 Denommus: yeah, sorry 15:23:58 mahmoud: pay attentation to the indentation 15:24:11 is indentation a must? 15:24:11 if you come here to say how bad lisp is, you can go now 15:24:16 mahmoud: yes. 15:24:19 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:29 mahmoud: you're starting to really become annoying. 15:24:35 mahmoud: you don't need to count the parenthesis, the structure is clear with the indentation 15:24:37 cuddly ()s are a lot more beautiful than ugly, pointy {}s and []s 15:24:41 but guys seriously, if that's not complicated, then i don't know what complication is 15:24:52 mahmoud: go away. 15:24:54 H4ns: i'm 15:24:59 mahmoud: what's complicated about it? 15:25:06 he is not even saying how bad lisp is; he is criticizing the parenthesis, the most marginal of the core language 15:25:17 (this((is)complicated)) 15:25:25 err, (this((is)complicated))) 15:25:29 you still see parens? 15:25:32 actually 1st one was right 15:25:33 francogrex: it is not marginal. it is one of the best features. 15:25:38 most clueless people and trolls attack parenthesis. because they don't have the knowledge to attack something more substantial 15:25:39 lol oGMo 15:25:45 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@pool-96-238-59-38.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:03 mahmoud: the parentheses are invisible to us. We see the AST 15:26:06 mahmoud: don't learn it, nobody is dragging you 15:26:06 berryx: and they've never really used the language 15:26:11 best doesn't mean core 15:26:18 i love parens, and curly braces. C nails them right. lisp is just (too(complicated(!))) 15:26:21 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@pool-96-238-59-38.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:26 mahmoud: Go away. 15:26:32 mahmoud: we gathered that now. you may leave. 15:26:37 mahmoud: while C is too(complicated(!())) 15:26:50 If you'd like to continue the discussion with interested parties, use private messages. 15:26:51 -!- oanufriev` [~user@109.87.32.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:54 terrible troll, kids these days 15:27:04 30yrs old, hardly a kid 15:27:16 age doesn't matter 15:27:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:27:20 ^^ 15:27:23 mahmoud is not a troll, only ignorant 15:27:27 he was giving you a benefit of the doubt by assuming you are a kid 15:27:28 oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has joined #lisp 15:27:32 not that I care 15:27:55 people who give more attention to syntax than semantics: until when? 15:27:58 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 15:27:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 15:27:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:28:07 weird, i keep hearing "benifit of the doubt" these days quite a lot. was there a movie recently about this? or a new song? 15:28:18 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 15:28:19 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*Mahmoud@unaffiliated/mahmoud 15:28:21 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 15:28:23 Denommus: i bet he will criticize all the features different from C 15:28:45 C sucks 15:28:47 because, being open to different things is hard, prejudice is easy 15:29:04 and I say that as a fan of deterministic memory management 15:29:10 Clearly we should all check our lisp privilege. 15:31:18 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:31 mahmoud: Don't prejudice yourself against lisp because of a few parentheses. I've been programming since I was 12 - 38 years now. I discovered Lisp three years ago. I fell so hard in love with it that I wrote my own Common Lisp system. It's awesome. 15:34:58 drmeiste_: "Common Lisp system"? 15:35:09 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister 15:35:11 drmeiste_: ah, I see what you mean 15:35:34 *Denommus* still thinking about application level and system-level 15:36:09 Denommus: You did't get the memo? Yes - I've built a new Common Lisp. It's not a clean-room implementation - it uses ECL's CL source code - but it's built in C++, interfaces with C++ and uses LLVM as the backend. 15:36:41 drmeister: hm. How do you handle mangling? 15:36:43 -!- berryx [~cgiirc@mistero.ircgate.it] has quit [Quit: IRCGate CGI:IRC User (Ping timeout)] 15:37:06 I don't - I let the C++ compiler handle it. 15:37:20 I use lots and lots of C++ template programming to do the interoperation. 15:37:25 Nasty stuff - but useful. 15:37:52 berryx [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 15:38:02 drmeister: You really need to release this thing to the public 15:38:14 It's "accidentally Turing complete"! Always a great selling point for a language. 15:38:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:38:43 loke_erc: Soon. I talked to our IP people - just a little paperwork involved. 15:39:09 enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:55 drmeister: What's the name of the project? 15:40:29 Well, I'm working on a new one - but it's not quite ready. 15:40:39 Name? 15:40:42 Currently it's "Bridge Common Lisp" 15:40:45 Yeah. 15:40:51 How is a name "not quite ready"? :-) 15:41:09 Exactly that. Naming things is important. 15:41:19 How about DrCleister? 15:41:29 :-) 15:41:30 Really - I haven't decided on it yet. 15:41:33 "The naming of cats is a difficult matter, it isn't just one of your holiday games." 15:43:49 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:45:15 Since cats are awesome, the name needs to be realted to cats 15:45:31 Grumpy Cat Common Lisp - GCCL 15:45:51 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:46:16 jdz [~jdz@mail.prosperitycapital.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:37 No. :( 15:46:42 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-60-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 CCCL Ceiling Cat Common Lisp 15:47:21 Awesome! I can imagine the logo :-) 15:47:38 If I knew photoshop, I'd make that logo right now 15:48:15 chatty cat lisp, ccl 15:48:40 is there not a variant spelling of closure that you could use? 15:48:48 can't have enough confusion! 15:48:57 Clawsure 15:48:58 There's the recently mentioned "dzu" spelling. 15:49:03 \o/ 15:49:12 H4ns: Cloxure 15:49:22 Closture 15:49:40 I'm still holding out for another chemical-formula name. 15:49:47 the "x" is pronounced like the "ch" in "cache" 15:50:16 then we can call it XCL. cloXure Common Lisp 15:50:16 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:50:21 (Again, obvious logo.) 15:51:05 there's already an xcl 15:51:20 from peter graves 15:51:29 ok, then CLCL 15:51:35 CLoxure Common Lisp 15:51:54 or just CLoxure 15:52:06 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:40 -!- gmci [~gmc@38.86.37.253] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:53:19 *slyrus* is working on chemical nomenclature 15:54:00 *loke_erc* looks at the table of elements 15:54:13 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 15:56:41 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:38 lispium 15:58:18 LiCL 15:58:52 Alludes to the secondary mening of the word Lisp too... 15:59:32 -!- ldionmarcil [~louis@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:00:18 or a new element, unhexquadium or something 16:00:20 -!- oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:25 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:01:06 oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has joined #lisp 16:01:25 -!- fe[nl]ix has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 16:01:59 gmci [~gmc@38.86.37.253] has joined #lisp 16:02:39 978 symbols => ennseptoctium 16:03:19 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:03:19 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:03:41 google finds one mention 16:04:11 Eso Lisp, for short 16:05:33 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.194.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:44 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:07:09 -!- eoctopus is now known as sirdancealot 16:07:31 -!- oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:56 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:24 Why limit oneself to latin letters? 16:08:35 CL 16:08:46 Because it's based on ECL, and is inclusive 16:08:53 CL 16:09:03 -!- guardianx [guardian@124-148-63-173.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:28 -!- mahmoud [~Mahmoud@unaffiliated/mahmoud] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:09:54 loke_erc:  then 16:10:02 jdz_ [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 16:10:09 L 16:11:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@mail.prosperitycapital.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:33 Shinmera: then 16:16:13 stassats: I didn't have that in my uim mode. 16:18:51 chadhs [~textual@66.195.151.70] has joined #lisp 16:19:19 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:10 -!- davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:12 How about  ?  ?  ? 16:24:23 When it comes to Unicode, your cup runneth over. 16:24:52 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:25:07 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:25:55 or if you want to be modest/shy:   16:26:32 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:57 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:46 Lisp 16:28:05 twice as good 16:28:08 "HCl Common Lisp"? It's a recursive acronym, and a chemical reference? 16:28:30 it could be anything Cl 16:28:33 UnCL - Unobtanium Chloride - ...? 16:30:11 Denommus: True, but my chemistry-fu is too weak to come up with ideas in that direction without assistance. 16:30:24 estelle [~user@LAubervilliers-153-52-11-9.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:30:36 stassats: Lisp 16:31:46 Hmm, UnCL is a bit reminiscent of UNCOL 16:32:17 ... Isn't UNCOL the old name for LLVM? 16:32:19 *nyef* hides. 16:32:28 Which is a bit of an outdated concept, now: but people used to suggest that Lisp would be the best choice. 16:32:38 Universal Computer Language, I think. 16:32:48 "Compiler-Oriented" from what I remember. 16:33:43 -!- estelle [~user@LAubervilliers-153-52-11-9.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:48 http://www.osdata.com/topic/language/uncol.htm#lisp I think this is what I had in mind 16:33:51 ISTR it being intended as a common IR for compilers, so that you'd write a front-end per programming language and a back-end per machine architecture, and that'd be it. Easy porting. 16:34:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:29 Right, but each compiler does that within itself these days. 16:34:44 Hrm. So I got the name wrong (either hazy memory or poor initial source material), but remembered the basics of the idea. 16:34:57 Each IRs tend to be fairly heavily specialised for a certain kind of language 16:35:22 LLVM, for instance, is strongly slanted towards low-level static first-order languages, because it is primarily intended to support C. 16:35:54 Right. Which reminds me... drmeister, how's the whole GC thing going? 16:37:46 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 16:39:05 aka_ [cba52b0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.165.43.11] has joined #lisp 16:40:21 -!- aka_ is now known as akakuro 16:40:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.119.183] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:40:38 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 16:43:17 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:32 is it just me, or does slime apply special indenting rules based on the name of a function/macro? 16:44:07 it does 16:44:08 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.16.53] has joined #lisp 16:44:20 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:44:44 It knows about &body 16:44:46 Which is nice. 16:45:03 not so great when you have a regular function that starts with default-, though 16:45:47 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:15 Yeah, not the best heuristic 16:46:33 (I seem to recall that emacs had that at one stage, and it was removed for that reason.) 16:51:49 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:07 on the other hand I quite appreciate it highlighting forms that start with assert- and check- 16:52:22 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 16:54:50 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 16:55:32 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 16:58:23 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 16:58:47 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:59:58 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:59:58 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:00:45 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 17:05:49 Alfr [~Unknown@g229204190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:32 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:17 oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has joined #lisp 17:07:21 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:10:35 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:56 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 17:13:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.26a1/20140106090522]] 17:13:58 -!- akakuro [cba52b0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.165.43.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:14:31 The issue with a universal IR isn't just that it specialized for a certain kind of language, it's that eventually you run into an optimization that you want to do, for which the IR is insufficiently expressive (or practically insufficiently expressive). Any IR that isn't isomorphic to the original source-code will likely run into this problem at some point, which makes a universal IR suboptimal. 17:15:00 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 17:21:16 hm. IR is an acronym for what? 17:22:07 intermediate representation 17:22:36 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 17:23:31 what if the IR is sufficiently low-level, like a universal Assembly? 17:24:14 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 17:24:15 jasom, as a nitpick, i think isomorphism is too strong a condition, because that avoids surjective (usually canonizing) transformations. 17:24:39 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:24:55 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:56 Denommus, low level IR strips away a lot of useful information that could allow for optimization 17:25:26 usually after you do as much analyses and optimizations, you'll transform into a second, lower level IR 17:25:34 as much ... as you can* 17:26:13 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:36 Quadrescence: and then you run into something like "If the original code is like this, and I have 2 free registers..." and get screwed 17:27:02 :)) 17:27:38 Quadrescence: yes, I agree that there are useful classes of surjective transformations that don't lose any information 17:28:12 s/information/useful information/ 17:28:15 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:16 Well they lose "information" in the sense the source couldn't be rec... yeah :)( 17:28:18 -( 17:28:23 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:28:28 jasom: that's what I mean by specialised, really 17:30:04 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:32:43 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:10 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:33:12 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:26 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:09 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-yqktmurawynzlnbi] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:38:29 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:49 -!- kahr [~kahr@524A4A2C.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:42:10 -!- oanufriev [~user@109.87.32.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:22 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:43:11 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 17:49:14 -!- vibhav [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:08 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:16 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:01:05 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 18:01:21 -!- berryx [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has quit [Quit: IRCGate CGI:IRC User (Ping timeout)] 18:02:15 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:02:19 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:28 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:33 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:07:59 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 18:08:11 I see we had fun with unicode 18:09:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:20 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:17 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:11:37 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:13:17 drmeister: you should keep the name Bridge Common Lisp and then you can give various parts of the implementation cutsey names relating to the card game "the small-slam rewrite engine" "the jacoby transfer I/O library" etc. 18:13:17 pjb: an alphabet per se is not funny 18:13:49 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 18:14:34 jasom, haha 18:15:15 mksan [52b61627@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.22.39] has joined #lisp 18:18:18 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:47 pnpuff: really? http://www.fontspace.com/category/funny 18:19:01 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 LAMBDA is an universal IR. 18:21:08 pjb but a font is something that does not intrinsically "characterize" a set of characters 18:21:14 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:23 pnpuff: Douglas Hofstadter studied and wrote about alphabets (vs. fonts). I'm sure he could argue much better than me that you can have funny alphabets. 18:22:26 ..better...of symbols 18:23:05 An alphabet can be funny in its graphic design. But it could also be funny abstractly, relatively to the words it's used to compose. 18:28:05 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:08 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:30 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 18:34:34 pjb: what you're asserting it's not easily quantifiable nor demostrable 18:34:37 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:35:42 "demonstrable" 18:35:56 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:03 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 18:36:28 With 30,700,000 google hits for funny alphabet, do I need a demonstration? 18:38:12 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 18:38:15 You can say that citing google is a confession of defeat. 18:38:31 <[6502]> shouldn't be `(list ,@5) an error ? 18:38:34 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 <[6502]> both SBCL and CLISP expand to (list . 5) 18:38:49 Not if @5 is bound. 18:38:57 Oops :-) 18:39:16 That's by design. 18:39:22 It was considered more useful that way. 18:39:24 you could review the rules for `, but IIRC, it can handle dotted lists. 18:39:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-89.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:58 <[6502]> where is that in CLHS? 18:40:32 [6502], 2.4.6 18:40:38 <[6502]> 5 is considered a dotted list? wow... never thought about that 18:41:00 zxq9 [~ceverett@125.199.207.150] has joined #lisp 18:41:37 No, 5 is just an atom. The list is dotted because it is ended with the 5 instead of with nil. 18:44:54 <[6502]> `((,a b) ,c ,@d) ... it could also be legitimately interpreted to mean ... (list* (cons a '(b)) c (copy-list d)) 18:45:03 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:45:08 <[6502]> but (copy-list 5) is an error 18:45:21 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.64.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:44 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 18:45:52 <[6502]> seems that SBCL and CLISP is acceptable but not mandated 18:46:00 <[6502]> giving an error is also acceptable 18:46:23 everything could be acceptable 18:46:24 <[6502]> sbcl and clisp behavior i mean 18:46:45 <[6502]> pnpuff: as Common Lisp :-D 18:47:38 Where does it say that erroring is acceptable? 18:48:03 <[6502]> ggole: last paragraph 18:48:24 "could also be legitimately interpreted to mean any of the following"? 18:48:32 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 <[6502]> `((,a b) ,c ,@d) can be expanded to (list* (cons a '(b)) c (copy-list d)) 18:49:00 I'm not sure that you can draw that conclusion from that text. 18:49:03 <[6502]> thus using ,@ with a non-list could be an error 18:49:07 [6502]: you need to specify (or simply know) a set of rules in order to know what is accepted from what is not accepted...and this is mandatory 18:49:34 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:49:42 <[6502]> ggole: SBCL behaviour is also acceptable, however 18:49:56 <[6502]> this means for me "just don't do that" :-D 18:51:06 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.192.241] has joined #lisp 18:51:25 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime disconnected because computer stinks] 18:52:32 [6502]: maybe you've first to know what are the accepting states... 18:56:18 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:40 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:58:54 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:59:00 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:27 -!- mksan [52b61627@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.22.39] has left #lisp 19:00:31 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:05:06 shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.32.126] has joined #lisp 19:06:24 -!- shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.32.126] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:57 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:13 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:14:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:14:24 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 19:15:12 CrazyEddy [~arrowlet@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:15:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:16:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:16:21 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 19:18:01 I found a "bug" in the hyperspec... http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v__.htm has links to the other toplevel variables, but those links just lead to the glossary entry for the word "variable" 19:19:11 Can anyone tell me what the bloody hell is going on here? http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/2014-01-30-201712_3840x1200_scrot.png Somehow the entire quoted form does not end with the appropriate amount of closing parentheses even though the quoted form is properly written. 19:19:15 Basically don't bother reporting bugs in the hyperspec, it's never going to be modified. 19:19:46 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 19:19:48 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:19:51 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:54 foom: this is a bug in the hyperlinking of the text, not a bug in the text itself 19:20:23 so I'd say the chances are slightly further away from zero than those of updating the spec itself :) 19:20:30 Adlai: yea, but the hyperspec is generated by a set of scripts which are not public, and for all I know even the author forgot about them. 19:21:00 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:21:45 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has joined #lisp 19:22:06 Ech, I mean, it's properly written in the code, but the return of the quote command is somehow messed up completely. 19:22:42 Shinmera: If you look closely, I think that you'll find that what's messed up is the paren-highlighting. 19:23:21 The parens in the response balance perfectly, but the highlighting is wrong. 19:23:33 Hm, right 19:24:58 Emacs is doing weird things all over now, eughh 19:26:53 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:29 It seems it's maching the < to ). 19:30:05 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ijailjjuaptugebw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:10 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:16 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:56 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD0C0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:35 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dwfagzsuanlonnot] has joined #lisp 19:45:52 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b03f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:51 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:48:26 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:35 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dwfagzsuanlonnot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:35 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:28 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has joined #lisp 20:05:14 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:06:05 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has joined #lisp 20:09:19 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:10:01 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:24 -!- gmci [~gmc@38.86.37.253] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:15:51 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 20:20:14 Did anyone sit in on the asdf walkthrough on sunday? 20:21:16 francogrex [~user@91.179.194.168] has joined #lisp 20:21:25 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.194.168] has quit [Client Quit] 20:22:03 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:05 *LiamH* was on a plane 20:22:20 bg451 [~bg451@64.62.178.135] has joined #lisp 20:23:20 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-169-116-250.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:23:53 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:24:00 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:35 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E2293.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:42 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:03 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:51 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:34 -!- bg451 [~bg451@64.62.178.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:36 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:09 bg451 [~bg451@64.62.178.135] has joined #lisp 20:33:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has joined #lisp 20:33:38 Xach: The walkthrough was recorded, so you can view it at your leisure. 20:34:26 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:34:40 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:35:09 brown```: is that 'you' in a general or specific sense? 20:36:32 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0EE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:20 brown```: where is it? 20:37:38 -!- bg451 [~bg451@64.62.178.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:01 Octothorpe [~nobody@p54A74A18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:35 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:37 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:13 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD0C0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:14 for use with ecl, should I choose swig -cffi or -uffi? 20:44:23 brownnnnnnnn 20:45:03 flip214: if -uffi works, it'd reduce the dependencies, but I've not tried swig with it personally 20:46:12 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 20:46:36 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:16 phadthai: thanks 20:48:09 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:48:45 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-rakrraemyjopdkbg] has joined #lisp 20:49:27 Xach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqqbc31ZZ-U 20:50:50 -!- Octothorpe [~nobody@p54A74A18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:16 tusen tack 20:55:32 i will need a lot of leisure to enjoy that video 20:57:17 (because it is very long) 20:57:45 -!- `fogus [~fogus@fairoakssw.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:51 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV (core dumped)] 20:58:08 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:28 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:00 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:22 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:39 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.65.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:34 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.222.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:04:18 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b03f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:17 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has joined #lisp 21:07:29 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: I really need to sleep.] 21:08:27 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:08:27 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 21:08:46 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 21:09:29 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:55 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:02 Heh. Fun new syntax: "#',#'some-function-name". 21:10:20 Goes with "#',(lambda ..." 21:10:33 how do you test for "" in cl ? 21:10:41 i.e. the empty one ? 21:10:57 The empty string? 21:11:27 the debugger barfs with it expecting some face value in my code but the face is explicitly assigned to "" for the regular face .... 21:11:48 and it's telling me nil is not a number.... 21:12:03 i don't want to return nil in that case.... 21:12:35 ... Are you sure that this isn't an emacs problem? 21:12:41 it's mcclim-truetype package issue.... 21:12:44 Ahh. 21:13:02 it loads it anyway and everything works but .... 21:13:09 (and (stringp x) (= 0 (length x))) maybe? 21:13:16 (string= "" x), maybe? 21:13:20 ah 21:14:01 returning null works halfway tho..... 21:14:26 i can maybe combine both the test and the return there.... 21:14:36 will see....thank you 21:15:04 it's just i don't want to get thrown into the debugger when loading .... 21:15:43 pnpuff [~XX_73@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 ldionmarcil [~louis@98.143.212.102] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 -!- ldionmarcil [~louis@98.143.212.102] has quit [Changing host] 21:15:59 ldionmarcil [~louis@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 21:16:27 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b03f2.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:23 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:53 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:29 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 21:29:06 -!- pnpuff [~XX_73@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:08 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:36:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:32 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 21:36:39 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:16 zenoli [~pk@109.201.154.169] has joined #lisp 21:39:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:03 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:42:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:43:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:54 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:31 -!- nha_ is now known as nha 21:48:14 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-rakrraemyjopdkbg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:42 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 21:52:03 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 21:53:20 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:51 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:00 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:21 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:58:51 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has joined #lisp 22:00:39 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ihvadwyfoijsbubi] has joined #lisp 22:01:31 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:05 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 22:05:59 -!- STilda [kvirc@176.67.7.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:02 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:21 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:09 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:09:57 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-248-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 22:11:48 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-252-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:12:13 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-150-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:16:11 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-163-187.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:35 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b03f2.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:18:10 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~arrowlet@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:25:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:22 gmci [~gmc@38.86.37.253] has joined #lisp 22:34:13 -!- gmcastil [~user@97-122-163-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:34:13 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:38:27 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:14 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:39 ckoch786 [~ckoch786@ne102611l.eng.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 22:42:57 since alexandria treats NIL as "use system default" for :if-exists/... there is no way to specify "ignore existing file", thats not nice 22:43:56 ferada: that's the whole point of e.g. with-open-file* 22:44:05 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:44:46 fortitude: as a user of write-string-to-file i'd expect that it behaves similar to open though 22:46:09 ferada: have you checked the source? because the code I'm seeing for write-string-into-file uses with-open-file, not with-open-file* 22:46:55 ozzloy [~ozzloy@208.85.243.232] has joined #lisp 22:46:56 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@208.85.243.232] has quit [Changing host] 22:46:56 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 22:46:59 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:33 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:47:34 ferada: sorry, brain stopped working for a minute there 22:47:44 with-output-to-file uses with-open-file* 22:47:51 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:47:54 fortitude: okay, i was wondering which version you had 22:48:20 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night.] 22:49:09 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 22:49:34 Abby27 [~Abby27@77.231.59.198] has joined #lisp 22:49:36 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos69 22:49:55 at least write-string-into-file is small, and thus easy to duplicate with the standard with-open-file 22:50:32 fortitude: yeah, it's no problem to work around, i was just puzzled for a bit 22:50:36 -!- Abby27 [~Abby27@77.231.59.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:51:08 it does seem strange that they chose to use with-output-to-file* for all of their other with- file macros 22:51:18 but having two of each is probably a bit too much to ask 22:51:52 -!- chadhs [~textual@66.195.151.70] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:53:13 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:16 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-inczsnmlogqgclxf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:42 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 22:54:10 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:27 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:55:53 -!- xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:22 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:42 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:23 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:00:30 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:00:51 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 23:00:58 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:42 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:54 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 23:04:46 Tyler [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 23:05:09 -!- Tyler is now known as Guest29917 23:06:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:42 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:08:48 -!- Guest29917 is now known as sheilong 23:10:55 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:25 ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:05 I'm having a bit of trouble understanding (declare (special foo)). 23:13:39 my naive understanding made me think that (let ((b 1)) (declare (special b))) would make b a global variable? 23:13:51 <|3b|> it makes it a 'special' variable 23:14:13 <|3b|> the only 'global' variables in CL are also 'special' 23:14:38 I know cl has lexical scoping, and that this somehow adds dynamic scoping, but I guess I don't really understand what that implies 23:15:16 you could imagine each special variable has behaving like a stack 23:15:17 <|3b|> it means that anything called within that LET will see that binding for and access to the special variable B (unless something else rebinds it) 23:15:42 every binding level pushes a value, until the end of the scope where it is popped 23:15:45 <|3b|> anything called outside that let will not see that binding though, so it isn't really "global" when bound by let 23:16:25 <|3b|> DEFVAR and DEFPARAMETER declaim the name of the variable they define to be a special variable, so every use will act as if it had a (declare (special ...)) 23:16:48 oh... so basically it adds the variable to the known namespace of any function within the let? 23:16:49 s/has behaving/as behaving/ 23:16:51 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.174] has joined #lisp 23:17:11 <|3b|> DEFVAR can, and DEFPARAMETER always provides a "global" binding which is visible if there is no other binding of that variable in effect 23:17:33 <|3b|> ubikation: not really 23:17:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:52 <|3b|> it specifies that that LET creates a dynamic binding rather than a lexical binding 23:18:04 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:16 ah okay I think I'm getting it 23:18:19 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:33 <|3b|> if there is no global declaim/proclaim affecting that variable name, other functions can use B as lexical or dynamic 23:18:47 secondly... why would it be used? 23:19:08 I mean why not just add it to the arguments of the functions in the let? 23:19:09 <|3b|> using it like that isn't too common, usually you would just DEFVAR or DEFPARAMETER 23:19:58 <|3b|> consider something you want to use in function X, but you have the value for it in Y, and Y calls A which calls B which calls C etc until you get to something that calls X 23:20:28 <|3b|> if you passed it as an argument, A,B,C,etc would all need that argument as well, and pass it on even if they don't care about it 23:20:36 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzzZZ] 23:20:49 <|3b|> then if there was a default that worked 90% of the time, A,B,C,etc still have to pass the default around 23:21:13 <|3b|> while a dynamic binding could let Y communicate directly with X without affecting the definition of A,B,C,etc 23:21:23 what happens if you have a second (declare (special foo)) at some point? 23:21:33 phadthai: is that what you meant by a stack? 23:21:37 consider *standard-output* for instance which you can bind affecting all functions defaulting to that stream for output 23:21:58 and other print related configuration variables 23:22:03 <|3b|> if it is not on a binding, then it specifies that accesses to FOO refer to any dynamic binding for FOO in effect when the code is evaluated 23:22:34 <|3b|> if it refers to a specific binding, then a new dynamic binding is created, and anything called within that scope will see thatbinding instead of the outer one 23:22:39 |3b|: that makes a lot of sense... I've really never worked with a large codebase 23:23:38 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:24:23 <|3b|> the printer variables are a good example (both of how it can be good and how it can be bad if not used carefully) 23:24:52 <|3b|> for example (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (do stuff ...)) 23:25:56 <|3b|> everything sent to *standard-output* in anything called in the (do stuff ...) part will end up in the string returned, but you didn't have to modify any of it to pass around a stream and write to that 23:26:18 it's also useful to pass a context, including thread-specific values on implementations which support threads 23:27:33 <|3b|> the bad side is that it can also affect things you didn't think about like the debugger, if they don't make an effort to keep the printer state useable 23:27:38 consider an http server or framework with a current connection, current http request and output reply objects etc, instead of having to pass those around everywhere as parameters 23:27:50 <|3b|> (particularly a problem with buggy pprint-dispatch tables or print-object methods) 23:28:35 that makes a lot of sense... 23:28:43 print-object methods can be tricky I agree 23:29:12 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 23:29:34 of course another useful way to pass such values with controlled context could be using closures 23:29:41 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:32:54 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:34:10 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:35:00 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:22 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:35:34 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:35 cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 23:39:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:25 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-117-96.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:26 -!- ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:18 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:47:29 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:19 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-88-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:36 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:50 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:51:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:51:45 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:53:10 -!- cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 23:53:41 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:03 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:46 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:56:07 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:37 ASau` [~user@p5083D398.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:57:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:30 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFBA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]