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going home] 02:06:52 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.68.3] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 02:07:15 -!- ebrasca [~chatzilla@host-198.58.elzappero.net] has left #lisp 02:12:04 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-ebrhctsgfogaexpb] has joined #lisp 02:13:30 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:14:33 -!- loke_ [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.235.134] has joined #lisp 02:15:35 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.235.134] has quit [Changing host] 02:15:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:16:32 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:16:48 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 02:17:11 loke_ [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 02:18:36 Hmm, usocket seems to have a short fuse on ns lookups. 02:18:52 i get consistent failures for wandrian.net, method-combination.net, and ftp.linux.org.uk 02:19:02 they don't fail when the cache is warm 02:23:29 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:24:05 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 Xach: Is that usocket's fault? 02:25:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.230.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:25:12 Isn't usocket just calling down the underlying implementation? 02:28:03 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 02:28:54 I don't know. 02:29:51 I wonder if I can tune it within usocket or if I will have to add some code to retry a few times. 02:30:21 I did it with BASIC-BINARY-IPC:RESOLVE-IPV4-ADDRESS. 02:30:25 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:33:23 Did what? 02:33:39 Resolved your addresses. 02:35:02 What do you mean by "cache" above? 02:35:39 I mean the global network of DNS caching. 02:36:06 After the data is available to me quickly via some nearby DNS cache, usocket does not time out on connect. 02:36:14 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:36:18 But after a day or so, when the lookup takes a long time, usocket times out. 02:36:41 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38:17 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:38:34 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:39:03 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:39:27 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:40:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:23 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 02:42:29 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Quit: May the force be with y'all] 02:42:33 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 02:43:21 The DNS server used is the one supplied by the ISP? i.e. You aren't using the DNS server on a router or one provided by a virtual machine manager? 02:43:29 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 02:44:57 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6c5ef.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:48:48 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6a59a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:49:06 I have a local cache via djbdns's dnscache 02:51:34 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 02:51:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:28 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:20 davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:37 -!- crixus 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quit [Changing host] 04:23:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:24:54 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:20 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 04:26:03 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:27:08 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.107.68] has joined #lisp 04:27:23 -!- frxx [~a@78-1-148-149.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:28:02 frx [frx@78-0-197-45.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:30:29 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.203.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:33:18 kPb_in [~kunal@103.31.144.4] has joined #lisp 04:33:30 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:38a0:1b22:47d9:cb8b] has joined #lisp 04:35:00 oxum [~oxum@122.164.248.221] has joined #lisp 04:38:26 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:26 ubii [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has joined #lisp 04:38:26 -!- ubii [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has quit [Changing host] 04:38:26 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 04:42:24 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@107-202-113-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:43 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 04:45:25 -!- frx [frx@78-0-197-45.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:46:50 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-138-146.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:47:00 Good morning everyone! 04:53:03 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 04:53:07 -!- rk[] is now known as rk[in-transit] 04:54:35 Is there a way to use LOOP to loop over three lists X, Y, Z as if they were appended to each other? So that once one ends the next one is begun? 04:54:35 drmeister, memo from pjb: use this macro: (defmacro test (n) `(block test (let ((n ,n)) (prog1 ,(generate-nested-unwind-protect n) (assert (zerop n)))))) ; to see the 33 being returned. 04:55:58 pbj: Are you online? 04:56:09 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:56:31 drmeister: What about FINALLY? 04:56:51 -!- kPb_in [~kunal@103.31.144.4] has quit [Quit: kPb_in] 04:57:22 throwing another loop in there 04:57:42 kristof: Maybe - I haven't spent much time learning how to use LOOP. 04:57:48 loop is not lispy, that's why 04:57:56 That's why. 04:58:09 drmeister: is `for i in (append x y z)` just not performant enough? 04:58:11 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:23 I don't think he wants to explicitly cons things 04:58:44 Does ( append x y z) mess with x y or z? 04:58:50 *drmeister* looking up 04:58:52 nol 04:58:54 no* 04:59:00 drmeister: Nope, thatd be nconc. 04:59:20 Ok, got it - yeah that will work 05:00:18 Does anyone here go to the LispNYC meetings? 05:01:07 I asked the organizers to give a talk about what I've been working on. I hope to release it before I talk. 05:01:31 Also, there is a Lisp meeting in Berlin in the fall - anyone going to that? 05:01:48 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@107-202-113-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:02:52 If I get DARPA or DTRA:DOD funding I'd attend the Berlin meeting. 05:03:08 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:42 I'm working on implementing moving garbage collection now. It's a bit of a mess tracking down every root. But I have this refactoring tool now so I'm treating it like a static-analysis problem. 05:07:09 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 05:07:50 I was amused by the Firefox announcement that they just completed exact rooting for their garbage collector: https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2014/01/20/a-big-step-towards-generational-and-compacting-gc/ 05:08:09 It's exactly like the problem I'm facing - although I have less code. 05:08:39 Wow, why do people do this to themselves? 05:08:52 Do what? 05:09:03 ... using a language other than CL for such big projects. 05:09:27 I mean, I kind of know how it happens. 05:09:38 Greenspun's tenth rule 05:09:43 Yes, indeed. 05:10:09 On day 1, they decide that their application requires maximum performance, so they choose a "fast language" like C++. 05:10:40 Then they get in trouble because you can't have a C++ program that is both fast and modular. 05:11:03 Smart pointers will make it slower than CL. 05:11:37 So they start implementing GC, and now they have all the ingredients of a language like CL, but with a lot of pain on the way. 05:11:50 That's what I mean. 05:13:09 I hear you - that's one reason I did what I've done. There's value in C and C++ code - it is fast for simple things. That's why I think a hybrid approach is most powerful. 05:13:57 Oh, I think your approach is great, given that you already have all this important C++ code. 05:14:32 Do you write code at work beach? 05:14:56 abunchofdollarsi: Sure, but not for production anymore. 05:15:28 If you are having trouble tracking down the roots, you might want to look into the "fake copying" GC described by Wilson et al. 05:15:43 I see; does that mean you get to use cl (or something else you like)? 05:15:53 abunchofdollarsi: Yes. 05:15:58 Cool. 05:16:32 abunchofdollarsi: But even when I worked in industry, I used Lisp (this was a while ago). It is amazing what one can get away with when the hierarchy is ignorant. 05:17:14 i love lisp 05:17:17 so much job security 05:17:19 abunchofdollarsi: I am assuming you were about to make some remark about the constraints of the reality of the software industry. 05:17:32 No; I was just curious. 05:17:35 Oh, OK. 05:18:03 I think people mostly just do (and propagate) what they know. 05:18:34 -!- davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:48 Yes. I explain that here: http://metamodular.com/Essays/psychology.html 05:20:37 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:21:08 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:41 beach: nice observation about "giving up" and adding a GC 05:25:08 I can really see the the conversation going like that in the beginning 05:25:15 Guthur-w`: Thanks. I have seen it SO many times. 05:25:31 think about how much effort has been wasted trying to solve the memory issues the hard way 05:25:41 and ultimately having to give up 05:25:43 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 05:25:55 Yes, it's sad really. 05:26:19 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:26:58 I once was consulting for a company with exactly this problem, and I suggested using a GC. The project leaders told me with a straight face that "programmers should clean up their own mess, so they should deallocate objects that they allocate". 05:27:15 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:44 The technical director was smart enough to realize that I had a point, and the project leaders had kept him in the dark (this is typical). 05:28:40 I told the project leaders they should avoid high level languages like C++ because they typically clean up for the programmer by deallocating function argument from the stack after the call. 05:28:46 They didn't get the irony. 05:30:30 kind of a shame noone remembers they're called automatic variablers 05:30:33 variables* 05:30:46 heh, yes. 05:31:26 some kind of half-baked moral analogy doesn't seem like a good basis for programming practice, anyway 05:31:48 Bike: Exactly! But this is the sad state of the software industry. 05:31:53 I'll write a book about it some day. 05:32:21 -!- zophy [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:32:55 *drmeister* likes the term "automatic variablers". 05:33:18 Progress report of the day: I estimate having finished 90% of this site now: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/clos-mop.html and there are only a dozen or so functions left. If anyone wants to help out, I suggest concentrating on finding broken links or candidates for new ones. 05:33:21 *drmeister* thinks it sounds like steam power is involved. 05:33:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.163.134] has quit [Quit: fmeyer] 05:33:53 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:09 there are just some many gotchas in C++ that must be programmed around to avoid problems, miss declare one destructor virtual and you could be leaking all over the place 05:35:50 Yes, and good luck finding such leaks. 05:35:51 in my last job, one of our senior devs made this very simple mistake. Easily done to be fair. 05:36:34 the code runs after all, so testing wont even highlight the issue 05:36:57 so you have to test for a whole new set of errors; leaks. 05:37:42 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:37:58 I'm adding GC to about 250,000 lines of C++ code as we speak. 05:42:38 drmeister: Remind me why you didn't just use the Boehm-Demers-Weiser GC. 05:43:09 I would think that would be ideal for your situation, since you are implementing your own Lisp system anyway. 05:43:30 Because when I do things I always ask myself - what is the absolute best way I could do this - then I shoot for that. 05:43:52 Fair enough. 05:45:09 drmeister: Out of curiosity, did you consider translating the 250kLOC to CL using some automatic or semi-automatic tool such as the one you just developed for code refactoring? 05:45:09 I designed this to interoperate with C++, Clang is a C++ compiler written as a C++ library, I could expose this C++ library and use static analysis to identify pointers within every class/struct for precise GC. 05:45:48 Then I would loose the C++ interoperation. 05:45:59 drmeister: Right. 05:46:19 You still need to know which processor registers contain roots. 05:46:28 And the bootstrapping. I have both a CL interpreter and a compiler. I bootstrap from Clang. 05:47:00 carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-76-102-220-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:02 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-76-102-220-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:47:03 That's a tricky one. I'm still working on that. 05:47:07 -!- slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:47:17 ... and you need to consider the possibility that the compiler messed with your pointers so that they no longer look like pointers. 05:47:58 For instance, if your compiler dropped a pointer to the beginning of an object in favor of keeping just a pointer to some field of it, then you need to recognize that the object is still alive. 05:47:59 I'm told that there is a trick, that if you take the address of a C or C++ pointer then it prevents that pointer from being changed within registers - has anyone heard of this? 05:49:13 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:49:56 beach: You've hit the nail on the head. I'm using a GC library called the Memory-Pool-System by Ravenbrook. It uses precise, moving GC for pointers on the heap and conservative GC for the stack (Boehm style). So I can use that for now. 05:50:51 OK. 05:50:52 C++ internal pointers are a problem. The folks at Ravenbrook gave me a patch that handles them - I haven't used it yet. Alternatively I can expand my smart-ptr type to include a pointer to the most derived type alongside the internal pointer. 05:51:53 My problem is that I have two years of sloppy, GC-ignorant code and I have to track down every possible root. This is exactly like the problem that the Firefox folks just finished solving. 05:52:36 I though have a secret weapon - an insanely powerful C++ refactoring tool. 05:52:37 Did that sloppy code have several authors? 05:52:44 Nope - just me. 05:52:50 That helps. 05:53:13 Project meetings are pretty quiet. 05:53:22 Heh! 05:53:28 And nobody ever brings donuts. 05:53:51 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 05:54:43 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-166-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55:00 -!- rk[in-transit] is now known as rk[] 05:58:29 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:01:06 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.248.221] has quit [Quit: ...] 06:01:08 kPb_in [~kunal@115.248.175.50] has joined #lisp 06:02:56 -!- effy [~x@114.246.77.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:11:01 Watcher7ish [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:30 drmeister: This is for handling your lisp code that has been compiled to C++, right? 06:13:16 Zhivago: No, this is for handling my C++ code. My lisp code is not compiled to C++. It is compiled to LLVM-IR and then lowered to native code. 06:13:30 Why are you trying to GC your C++ code? 06:14:12 -!- Watcher7 [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:14:27 Because it is interleaved with the CL code. You should see my backtraces - C++ interleaved with CL. 06:14:49 -!- kPb_in [~kunal@115.248.175.50] has quit [Quit: kPb_in] 06:16:09 Currently I use intrusive reference counting with a home-brewed smart_ptr. I allocate a lot of objects within the C++ code. 06:16:17 So this is mostly about the control stack and its dependencies. 06:16:31 -!- Watcher7ish [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: h] 06:16:37 Yup. 06:16:46 Watcher7 [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:25 There's also a lot of stuff on the heap that I need to root. 06:17:54 If that's the case, I wonder if you could use the control stack as a tide mark. 06:18:05 One freakin loose pointer brings the whole thing down. 06:18:19 You know that anything that's underwater isn't currently freeable. 06:18:30 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:19:44 That's what the memory-pool-system takes care of - it identifies what's underwater. But it doesn't work with C++ internal pointers - which I have a lot of. I used C++ multiple and virtual inheritance. If C++ has a feature - I'm using it. 06:20:25 So the MPS guys gave me a patch to handle internal pointers - but they don't like it because it slows their stack scanner down by 20%. 06:21:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:22:55 They are great guys - very, very helpful. 06:23:07 -!- Guthur-w` [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:23:54 Here's what a CL backtrace looks like: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e302057020d0a45415ec 06:25:27 drmeister: is your CL available anywhere for people to try? 06:27:01 ggole [~ggole@58-7-112-100.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:27:05 -!- Watcher7 [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: h] 06:28:22 loke_: Not yet. I'm talking to our IP people (I'm at a University) tomorrow about open sourcing it. 06:29:16 Shouldn't university projects always be open sourced? 06:30:04 loke_: Dream on! 06:30:14 effy [~x@114.250.90.109] has joined #lisp 06:31:53 Legally they own everything I do - it's cool - I get protection from them as well. It will be open sourced because I use a lot of ECLs Common Lisp code which I believe is GPLd. 06:32:00 LGPLed 06:32:06 iirc 06:32:54 I need help from an SBCL guru. In McCLIM (Lisp-Dep/mp-sbcl.lisp) there are a few occurrences of GET-MUTEX which is deprecated. I would appreciate if someone could give me a version of mp-sbcl.lisp that uses the current idioms (grab-mutex, with-mutex) instead. 06:37:32 Among the barriers to getting this thing out are 1) Learning git 2) Learning the legaleze. 06:40:03 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:41:13 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:42:51 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:28 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 06:45:30 -!- nauar [~nauar@195.53.22.2] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:51:13 -!- jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 06:52:31 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-138-146.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 06:53:19 oxum [~oxum@122.164.92.215] has joined #lisp 06:53:23 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 06:54:05 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 06:54:35 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 06:59:31 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:59:38 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:04:44 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:00 cmpitg [~cmpitg@42.112.103.44] has joined #lisp 07:05:00 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@42.112.103.44] has quit [Changing host] 07:05:00 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 07:06:49 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:06:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:06:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:09:07 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:11:56 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ffupghnttsoglnwy] has joined #lisp 07:12:02 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:13:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 07:14:05 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:14:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:14:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:56 -!- abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:24 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 07:21:11 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-zammmsaborjdcmbb] has joined #lisp 07:21:11 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-zammmsaborjdcmbb] has quit [Changing host] 07:21:11 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:24:34 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:27:37 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.230.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:22 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-120.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:07 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:33:03 Hi, I'm facing this issue - https://github.com/cl-babel/babel/issues/12 while trying to load babel. One of the suggested solutions to the problem seems to be trying to clear out the old version of alexandria from .sbcl/site/, but my .sbcl folder has only one file (trusted-uids.lisp). How do I clear out alexandria and install a new version? 07:33:25 wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has joined #lisp 07:33:34 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:05 ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:24 -!- ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:38:09 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:42:18 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 07:44:23 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:45:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:46:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-70-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:50:31 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-lrxvvmoqqmhfwrrj] has joined #lisp 07:51:18 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:53:32 jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:54:09 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:48 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 07:56:24 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:59:32 alama [~jessealam@91-115-168-133.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:59:38 snits [~snits@184-98-225-16.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:00:05 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:00:10 evenson [~user@178.115.133.129.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:09 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:01:17 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ifxfoxtwmsbnxany] has joined #lisp 08:02:55 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:05:54 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:34 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:09:42 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.220] has joined #lisp 08:09:55 *evenson* Mornin' ehu. 08:10:57 ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:12 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 does anyone know a bit about the sb-ext:timer function? the documentation makes me think that it might be using hpet but I don't think so 08:15:29 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:15:59 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:16:28 also I am getting this error when trying to install a new version of sbcl: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/8555182 08:19:20 that's with sbcl-1.1.14 08:20:24 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:44 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:24:13 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 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sirdancealot [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 09:54:52 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:56:14 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 10:00:28 OldContrarian [~user@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:00:47 Freakin FINALLY! 10:00:51 harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has joined #lisp 10:01:19 After DAYS of trying, I've finally been able to figure out how to use my hierarchial assoc tree thingy. 10:01:45 ("hierarchial assoc tree thingy" is a technical term, in case you didn't know) 10:04:30 chitech [~khuongdp@ami.fw7.opa.tdch.dk] has joined #lisp 10:07:08 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:29 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 10:09:23 pierpa [~user@95.236.58.43] has joined #lisp 10:09:23 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:05 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:22 OldContrarian: "thingy" is indeed a technical term -- in Perl 10:10:26 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:11:20 bitwize: There is no need to resort to that kind of language in here. 10:11:46 (ambiguity intended) 10:12:56 I implemented a trie tree the other day using cons cells, it can get a bit confusing 10:13:36 -!- CrazyEddy [~Hamamelid@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:13:42 Right, that's what I'm doing. But in my case, I think it's only confusing because I don't know what I'm doing. That often seems to be the case in my life, now that I think about it. 10:14:25 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:14:26 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:14:26 All I can say is, break down your test cases to very simple trees and debug with those 10:14:55 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:17:38 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.90.227.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:18:09 Yep, I did that. Turned out all I needed to do was call cdr on the return of assoc for everything to work. 10:22:38 It seems to me Lisp is harder to learn than, say, Python, but it seems to be worth the learning curve. 10:23:04 OldContrarian: there's only two things to know about lisp 10:23:59 ogamita: Oh? 10:24:03 1- () is a list, anything else is an atom. (op arg) applies the operator op to the arguments arg. 10:24:16 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:19 2- (op arg)  10:24:37 Sorry, you're using a character my terminal can't handle - what is it? 10:24:43 ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:59 I just see a square after (op arg 10:25:15 Now you may have to learn about a few common operators: we distinguish two kinds of operators: functions, and special operators/macros. 10:25:21 OldContrarian: replace it with ... 10:25:35 Ah, thanks. 10:25:46 for functions the arguments are evaluated automatically, and their resulting values are passed to the function as parameters. 10:26:21 for the special operators/macro, the argument source form (list or atom), is passed to the special operator/macro which does whatever it wants with them. 10:26:21 lonjil [c274d402@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.116.212.2] has joined #lisp 10:26:54 Wow, you're right. You've really got it distilled. 10:27:28 For example, (let ((a 1)) (+ 1 a)), since let is a special operator/macro, it gets two lists as parameter: ((a 1)) and (+ 1 a). Its rule is to take the first list as a list of bindings, so it creates lexical variable with initial values, and it takes the rest of its arguments as expressions to be evaluated in the new lexical scope. 10:28:19 *OldContrarian* nods. 10:29:14 On the other hand, (list 1 (+ 1 1)) since list is a function, its arguments are evaluated. 1 evaluates to 1; for (+ 1 1), recursively, since + is a function 1 is evalauted giving 1, 1 is evaluated giving 1, + is called with two parameters, 1 and 1, and it returns resulting into 2. list is then called with parameters 1 and 2 and returns resulting into (1 2). 10:29:25 And it's like that for everything. 10:30:10 Right. 10:30:12 The language is simple, simplistic even. All the rest is in "libraries", collections of operators: functions and macros. 10:30:37 But that's the same as with any contemporary framework. 10:31:00 Only with less than 978 operators, CL is a very small framework (android has more than 400,000 methods!) 10:31:27 yes, but that's with a bunch of libs frameworks etc. 10:31:34 Yeah, good point. It's probably not as difficult as I think. I think one aspect that makes it seem more difficult than it is to me is the common usage of things like (assoc (cdr (what (ever)))) which puts a lot of code on a single line. 10:32:13 -!- effy [~x@114.250.90.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32:19 OldContrarian: again, this is possible because lisp is simple: there's only expressions. So you can combine them however you want. 10:32:40 eg. (if (= a b) (setf x 1) (setf x 2)) <=> (setf x (if (= a b) 1 2)) 10:32:44 Right. Python is a litte like that too. 10:33:13 Wow, that's a clever trick, hadn't thought of that before. 10:33:23 in a lot of other languages, there's a distinction between statements and expressions, and this makes life miserable to everybody, and makes it very much more complex. 10:33:39 -!- ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:07 In lisp, instead of a sequence of statement (progn (if (= a b) (setf x 1) (setf x 2)) (print x)), you may combine expressions: (print (setf x (if (= a b) 1 2))) 10:34:47 This is not to say that you should. Sometimes it's more logical to keep procedural, side-effectful expressions, separate. 10:35:05 But notice that CL has the rule that the arguments to functions are evaluated from left to right. Always. 10:35:15 Just thinking out loud here; that construct makes it easier to implement maximum values: (setf x (if (> a maximum) maxiumum a)) 10:35:21 So in CL, (let ((x 0)) (list (incf x) (incf x) (incf x))) has a definite value. 10:35:48 In C, C++, etc, { int x=0, return list(x++,x++,x++); } could return anything. 10:36:26 from {1,2,3} to {3,2,1} thru {1,1,1}, or any combination really. 10:36:38 *OldContrarian* nods. 10:36:45 Scheme also doesn't impose an order. 10:36:55 This is all very enlightening! 10:37:51 Hadn't thought of it like this before. 10:38:17 Therefore you must use statements in C, scheme, python etc. It makes things ugly: (let ((x 0)) (let ((x1 (+ 1 x))) (let ((x2 (+ 1 x1))) (let ((x3 (+ 1 x2))) (list x1 x2 x3))))) is what you'd have to write in scheme. {int x=0,x1=1+x,x2=1+x1,x3=1+x2; return list(x1,x2,x3); } in C. 10:38:53 Well, only for procedures. :) 10:39:05 For functions it doesn't matter. 10:39:12 right, for macros/syntax in scheme it's ok. 10:39:30 It's only significant with respect to side-effects. 10:39:56 But I agree that it was probably a bad idea not to have that well defined -- something that javascript, at least, gets right. :) 10:40:01 Yes, but we're not considering haskell here. There is very few pure functions in usual programs. 10:41:00 On the other hand, a compiler could easily track pure functions and issue big warnings when bad side effects are introduced. clang tries to do it a little, IIRC. 10:41:55 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C3D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:58 This also goes against the grain of higher order functions (which may be purely functional, only if their arguments are). 10:44:54 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:45:04 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:22 CrazyEddy [~oxman@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:47:40 KDr2 [~KDr2@113.139.170.253] has joined #lisp 10:49:35 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:05 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-163-187.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:31 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 10:56:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:59:51 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:01:50 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C3D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-70-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:45 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:15:14 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:31 vaporatorius [~vaporator@80.31.5.241] has joined #lisp 11:20:58 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:21 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@177.Red-81-32-247.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:27:37 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:29:20 effy [~x@114.246.77.67] has joined #lisp 11:29:45 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:31:02 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 11:34:38 -!- gancl [~gclsoft@112.5.234.72] has left #lisp 11:34:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:35:19 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.92.215] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 11:39:40 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:40:52 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43:12 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:45:47 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:23 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:48:47 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 11:51:11 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:52:11 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has joined #lisp 11:52:33 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Quit: May the force be with y'all] 11:56:56 Is there a more elegant way for the following: (defmethod somemethod ((a some-class)) (when (eq (type-of a) 'some-class) )) 11:57:29 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 11:57:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:51 so you want to evaluate only for the particular class, not for its subclasses? 11:59:54 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has left #lisp 12:00:25 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 12:01:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:01:25 to me, it sounds if that'd be some kind of a design mistake in the class hierarchy 12:02:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-70-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:04:58 pranavrc: have you looked in ~/quicklisp/cache (assuming you use quicklisp default install directory)? 12:05:44 H4ns: I noticed, that I don't even need that 12:05:58 but that was what I wanted yes 12:06:37 fiveop: in sbcl you can use a sb-pcl::class-eq specializer 12:08:41 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:50 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:20 thx 12:11:27 katspaugh [~katspaugh@95.108.173.185-red.dhcp.yndx.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:48 Hi! How do you install a package so that you can require it using `(require :package-name)`? 12:11:55 tsuru, yeah, couldn't find anything there 12:13:00 I'm using this script  https://github.com/fitzgen/tryparenscript.com/blob/master/build#L12  and SBCL says "Don't know how to REQUIRE PARENSCRIPT.". 12:15:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:15:16 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.107.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:20 -!- DeadTrickster [~dead@62.122.188.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:31 I also have Quicklisp installed and added to my .sbclrc. If that helps. 12:16:43 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:17:02 And I installed the parenscript package through Quicklisp. 12:18:14 have you considered using emacs lisp? 12:19:03 oxum [~oxum@122.164.16.202] has joined #lisp 12:19:28 robiv: me? 12:19:37 KaiQ [~localhost@wlan241014.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 12:20:04 yes 12:20:46 -!- effy [~x@114.246.77.67] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:21:19 effy [~x@114.246.77.67] has joined #lisp 12:21:54 robiv: No, I haven't. 12:22:23 I was told Common Lisp was the best lisp. 12:22:34 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.16.202] has quit [Client Quit] 12:23:10 whoever told you that was probably smoking that other stuff in his pipe. 12:24:04 robiv: so, you're telling me to abandon Common Lisp in favor of Emacs Lisp? 12:24:33 yeah. common lisp is easier to set up and work with initially but anyone who looks at the two side by side can see that emacs lisp is the superior platform 12:24:52 "right" 12:24:53 lisp isn't just a language, it's also a way of understanding information and communication 12:25:13 wait, what's happened to this channel? 12:25:21 the emacs platform has many well-written utilities and libraries available for it that tie into an easy to use universal interface 12:25:22 katspaugh: emacs lisp is an editor extension language. common lisp is a general programming languge. 12:25:23 honestly, I take my eye off the ball for just _one_ decade, and... 12:25:23 robiv: I see what you mean. 12:25:30 robiv: can you please leave? 12:25:34 oxum [~oxum@122.164.16.202] has joined #lisp 12:25:49 happy 420 everyone 12:25:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wvavrbatnljveeyl] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 H4ns: isn't it capable of running general purpose programs? 12:25:52 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wvavrbatnljveeyl] has quit [Changing host] 12:25:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:26:06 katspaugh: "it", what do you mean? 12:26:56 i take it he means the emacs platform 12:27:15 H4ns: Emacs Lisp, yes. 12:27:19 it has an irc client, a file manager, an ftp client, let's see 12:27:44 katspaugh: it is still embedded in an editor. 12:27:51 robiv: All for the purpose of running inside an editor, though. 12:28:23 Haven't seen an "x lisp is the best lisp" flame starter in a while. 12:28:31 Isn't the editor modular so you don't have to load all of those editor-specific packages? 12:28:36 yeah 12:28:46 you only load what you need to, though there are sensible defaults 12:29:08 Shinmera: Yeah, the embarassing part is that we're falling for it. 12:29:12 the gnu emacs has been ported to nearly every os and architecture under the sun 12:29:35 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-120.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:37 it's extremely well documented as well and licensed in such a way that it respects users freedoms 12:30:23 How does Emacs compare to a platform like Guile? Is Guile more like what Common Lisp has or Emacs? 12:32:09 Abyway, H4ns, could you help with the original question? 12:32:10 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:34:42 evenson` [~user@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:35:27 Guile is a scheme implementation made to be embedded into a C program 12:35:51 Emacs is an interactive text editing platform with its own programming language, emacs lisp 12:36:36 Common Lisp is a programming language *standard* (so, a document) with several competing implementation, some of them are Open Source, one of them at least had been made to be embedded into a larger C program 12:36:39 what is your question? 12:36:47 -!- evenson [~user@178.115.133.129.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:38:07 dim: thanks for ending the flame. My question was about requiring packages. I'm using SBCL with Quicklisp and trying to require a package, but it says "I don't know how to require the package". 12:38:55 I see that you've been using require, which has nothing to do with Quicklisp 12:39:26 it's all a little confusing, so you need to pay attention and read some docs 12:39:49 katspaugh: read http://weitz.de/packages.html 12:40:00 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@aug33-1-88-164-179-59.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:44 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:59 dim: thanks! I'll spend more time reading Quicklisp docs. 12:43:42 -!- lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:49 kahr [~kahr@524A4A2C.cm-4-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 12:45:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:36 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:43 katspaugh: do you have quicklisp init in your .sbclrc file? 12:46:56 lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 12:47:15 tsuru: yes! 12:51:10 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:51:35 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 I get this warning: redefining ORM::%FIND-ALL (#) in DEFMETHOD followed by this error "There is no applicable method for the generic function # when called with arguments (#)." How does this make sense? 12:57:07 I think my problem is, `sbcl --script` isn't respecting my .sbclrc. When I run sbcl REPL, it requires Quicklisp-installed packages all right. 12:57:24 I know what my problems is 12:57:43 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 12:57:56 fiveop: you too? 12:59:21 frx [frx@93-138-155-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:02:02 So I've added the contents of .sbclrc into the script linked above and now it works. Thanks everyone. 13:03:50 -!- reeed [~reeed@182.55.78.107] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:04:43 Alfr [~Unknown@f052052020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:01 katspaugh: use quicklisp! (ql:quickload :parenscript) 13:07:15 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:49 ogamita: I tried that but it said "No package Ql". It didn't see my .sbcl for some reason. Maybe because it was launched from a bash script. 13:07:59 * .sbclrc 13:11:34 Shinmera: Join comp.lang.lisp and un-ignore WJ(if he was ignored). :) 13:12:27 You will be full of "flame starters" in no time. 13:13:33 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:15 evenson`` [~user@178.115.133.129.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:15 zophy [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 -!- evenson` [~user@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:07 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:19:32 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.112.118] has joined #lisp 13:20:04 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:22:00 reeed [~reeed@182.55.78.107] has joined #lisp 13:24:17 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:26:08 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:26:09 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has joined #lisp 13:29:21 Is there any kind of examples of usage of sime-media? I can't figure out how to insert image into REPL. 13:29:31 s/Is /Are / 13:29:38 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:31:15 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 13:33:25 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:34:18 wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has joined #lisp 13:34:45 the only user I know of is swankr 13:34:54 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:35:03 there is a long-standing issue that I keep on forgetting about regarding how easy or not easy it is to use from CL 13:35:15 possibly something to do with getting an unqualified symbol in there 13:35:54 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:36:02 n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has joined #lisp 13:36:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-hjjrrruuphqwiibw] has joined #lisp 13:36:30 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-hjjrrruuphqwiibw] has quit [Changing host] 13:36:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:36:55 I see. 13:37:04 harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has joined #lisp 13:38:49 in R, I have two generic functions: send-repl-result-function (which presentations use) and make-media-repl-result (which can be used to send messages that aren't just (:write-string "xx" :repl-result) 13:39:13 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:39:26 -!- katspaugh [~katspaugh@95.108.173.185-red.dhcp.yndx.net] has left #lisp 13:40:38 You mean R programming language? 13:41:23 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 13:41:38 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:03 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:05 yes 13:43:17 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:25 I see. 13:46:17 I was thinking about learning it some time ago but now I prefer reinventing the bicycle in CL or, occasionally, Python. 13:47:19 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:21 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:48:44 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:48:58 well, that's up to you. The relevance here is that swankr is a slime/swank implementation for R which makes use of slime-media 13:49:11 harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:51:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:52:31 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:53:11 lambda_male [~DEA7TH@193.60.79.168] has joined #lisp 13:53:56 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:57:03 OK, thanks for information. 13:58:54 -!- lambda_male [~DEA7TH@193.60.79.168] has left #lisp 14:01:07 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:03:05 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:03:27 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-32-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 14:09:52 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 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[~bitwize@c-98-216-250-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:27 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:49 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:22 hugoduncan [~user@69.157.171.126] has joined #lisp 15:30:24 Alfr_ [~Unknown@f053070040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:25 -!- hugod [~user@69.157.171.126] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:30:26 mordocai` [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 15:31:08 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@f052052020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:31:58 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:33:30 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 15:33:44 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@wlan241014.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:25 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:38:00 does asdf's uiop treat defsystem system's differently ? 15:38:44 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:58 the only package i get a problem with loading is clim-clx:mcclim/Backends/CLX/medium.lisp 15:39:05 -!- mordocai` [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:39:44 mordocai` [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 15:39:47 however everything is fine loading via ql:quickload..... 15:39:51 that's why i wonder.... 15:40:39 oleo: quickload by default suppresses warnings, and warnings can make a system load fail. 15:40:58 it's supposed to error on sbcl, not warn..... 15:41:19 afaik when i read the source.... 15:41:51 does quickload suppress errors too ? 15:44:44 or is there a confusion about the location of the tempfile supposed to being generated in the .cache/common-lisp/ but the source file referring to another path ? 15:44:59 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:45:23 i don't know something is wrong here.... 15:45:48 the fasl gets compiled and generated but the asdf loader complains ..... 15:46:10 so i don't know where the real problem is.... 15:46:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 15:46:38 cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 and if it were so i would expect the same thing to happen for other packages/systems too.... 15:46:57 but the error is only specific to one system just here over.... 15:48:46 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:28 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 15:50:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:28 lance7in [~lance7in@221.179.161.111] has joined #lisp 15:50:31 cmpitg [~cmpitg@42.112.103.44] has joined #lisp 15:50:31 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@42.112.103.44] has quit [Changing host] 15:50:31 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 15:52:07 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:25 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:21 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 15:59:58 milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 16:01:14 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 16:02:06 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:34 how to convert a relative filename to its absolute representation? 16:02:58 do I need to use uiop:getcwd or the like? 16:03:01 dim: does it represent a real file? 16:03:16 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-197.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:24 it might be a symlink I guess, but in the examples I'm working with, it's a real file 16:03:32 probe-file will return a truename 16:03:48 you can also (merge-pathnames relative) - that merges with *default-pathname-defaults*. 16:04:00 you can merge with another pathname by providing a second arg to merge-pathnames 16:04:06 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-197.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:14 yeah but I want to avoid relatives in the rest of the code in that case 16:04:20 If it was symlink, what whould be different? 16:04:21 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:04:31 my specs aren't very clear, so to avoid thinking to much I want a "truename" 16:04:44 I didn't think using probe-file return value, thanks 16:05:31 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06:25 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06:55 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.65] has joined #lisp 16:07:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.81.99.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:15 I'm tempted to use the lambda argument list maybe-relative-filename &aux (filename (probe-file maybe-relative-filename)) now 16:07:41 it works beautifully ;-) 16:08:06 Oops, never mind. I didn't get the sentence about PROBE-FILE at first. 16:08:57 I can't decide if it's a clean way to solve my problem, it looks a little like a after-though wart 16:09:07 but there's something beautiful to it 16:09:41 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 16:11:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.21.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:22 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:16:15 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:35 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.220] has joined #lisp 16:16:35 setmeaway [oosool3@118.45.149.241] has joined #lisp 16:16:45 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-lrxvvmoqqmhfwrrj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:18:03 -!- lance7in [~lance7in@221.179.161.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:30 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:21:23 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ttodybyblmjkkfak] has joined #lisp 16:22:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ttodybyblmjkkfak] has quit [Changing host] 16:22:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:23:22 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:44 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:18 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has joined #lisp 16:24:32 crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 16:25:33 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:25:33 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 16:28:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:27 is it possible that SBCL has a bug where the compiler thinks a variable is never used and it's obviously wrong? who do I report that to? 16:29:51 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:31:13 it is possible; it's not all that likely 16:31:25 maybe paste a minimal example so that I can see it first? 16:32:00 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:20 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:52 sure, it's actually in already commited code in pgloader 16:34:18 https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/master/src/pgsql/pgsql.lisp function retry-batch (last of the file) 16:34:25 ; The variable DBNAME is defined but never used. 16:34:57 "SBCL" "1.1.14" 16:35:12 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 16:37:23 redscare [~user@18.189.39.249] has joined #lisp 16:37:48 is there anyone who has gotten one of the linear algebra (BLAS/LAPACK) to work on mac os x? 16:37:53 Is it just used in with-pgsql-transaction, and does with-pgsql-transaction actually use it? 16:39:52 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ifxfoxtwmsbnxany] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:39:53 the macro is defined in https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/master/src/pgsql/queries.lisp, 3rd entry 16:40:04 well, "entry", but I suppose you see what I mean 16:40:07 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C3D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:40:17 and it's the second one 16:41:11 :database is given, so with-pgsql-transaction expands into code that doesn't use dbname 16:41:26 So... it's not used, yes. 16:41:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:42:19 hasimatz [~iwan_gros@tofex.net.iks-jena.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:23 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:17 ahah, yeah 16:43:32 so the macro needs a declare ignore in the right branch then 16:43:47 or the calling code needs to be smarter actually 16:43:51 thanks! 16:43:53 Wouldn't help, it'd be in the wrong scope. 16:44:03 I was again blind to my own code 16:44:21 Use declare ignorable in the outer scope or just arrange to USE that variable in the first place. 16:45:00 I'm just removing that variable that I don't need at all, actually 16:45:04 is there anyone who has gotten one of the linear algebra (BLAS/LAPACK) packages to work on mac os x? 16:45:05 yeah, if the point is that :database is an optimization you could check that that database has the right dbname 16:45:07 just like SBCL told me 16:45:11 There's something very odd-seeming about that :dbname key argument, btw. Why are you stashing it in a special variable /during macroexpansion/? 16:45:12 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.32.210] has joined #lisp 16:45:12 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 16:45:21 well :database actually is a database connection handler 16:45:33 I did reuse Postmodern *database* naming 16:45:41 which is a little confusing in that place, but well 16:45:59 and :dbname is only useful if you need to create a connection handler, once you have it, you have it 16:46:04 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 16:46:43 nyef: to allow the rest of the code not to have to care about the name of the current database anywhere while still being able to refer to it when needed 16:46:52 it used to be explicit all over the place 16:47:05 I didn't like repeating myself that much in the API, nor in the REPL 16:47:59 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:48:03 I can do simple things now, e.g. (pgloader:with-database-url ("postgresql://user@host/dbname") (pgloader.pgsql:list-reserved-keywords)) 16:48:23 I think you miss my point. You never refer to ,*pg-dbname* in that macro. 16:48:39 (pgloader:with-database-url ("postgresql://user@host/dbname") (pgloader.pgsql:with-pgsql-transaction () (pgloader.pgsql:list-reserved-keywords))) actually 16:49:03 And you never call out to another function that would refer to the value from within that macro. 16:49:11 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:18 It's only referred to, by name, within the expansion. 16:49:36 Oh, wait, I'm mixing up name and default value. 16:49:44 That's even more confusing. 16:49:55 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:50:11 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 16:50:19 mmm, it got complex, it's actually (pgloader::with-monitor () (pgloader:with-database-uri ("postgresql:///pgloader") (pgloader.pgsql:with-pgsql-transaction () (pgloader.pgsql:list-tables)))) 16:50:27 That's going to be interestingly puzzling when *pg-dbname* is either unbound or bound to something other than NIL during compilation. 16:50:33 nyef: yeah I need to take a fresh look at the whole thing some day 16:50:45 -!- zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:24 see https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/commit/fe302af221b2109b189d8e2ed67e359518208619 if interested about how I came to do that in the macro 16:51:34 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:51:54 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:24 zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #lisp 16:53:50 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:54:00 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:15 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:56:19 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:57:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:32 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 16:58:35 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:14 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:01:12 wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has joined #lisp 17:03:03 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:29 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:37 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:41 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:45 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 17:08:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:09:07 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:09:21 -!- hasimatz [~iwan_gros@tofex.net.iks-jena.de] has left #lisp 17:09:50 iwan [~iwan_gros@mail.sewak.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:29 zarusky [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #lisp 17:10:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:11:19 -!- iwan [~iwan_gros@mail.sewak.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:23 -!- zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:11:34 is there anyone who has gotten one of the linear algebra (BLAS/LAPACK) to work on mac os x? 17:13:16 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:59 -!- andschwa [~user@fsf/member/andschwa] has left #lisp 17:16:00 redscare: maybe try #fortran 17:16:01 Hello fiveop. 17:16:43 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:16:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:17:56 prxq: I'm talking about the lisp interfaces to them, i.e. lla or lisplab[ 17:18:32 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:19:54 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:20:53 rpg_ [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:16 redscare: see GSLL 17:22:20 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:22:47 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:24:23 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:24:56 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:25:35 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:28:03 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 17:29:23 -!- zophy [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:13 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.112.118] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:30:31 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:31:51 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:31:53 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ffupghnttsoglnwy] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:32:07 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 17:32:10 LiamH: I think gall faills on OS X at least for me it does 17:32:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-70-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:32:35 I tried emailing list but not sure if email received 17:32:56 I did find a thread by googling http://www.mail-archive.com/gsll-devel@common-lisp.net/msg00273.html that suggests a solution 17:33:09 *gsll 17:33:23 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:53 redscare: LLA also fails if you are using CCL and appears to have bugs that stassats here at #lisp identified a bug that probably will effect all implementations even if it loads 17:36:09 see https://github.com/tpapp/lla/issues/11 for the issue and his final comment 17:36:35 redscare: There is an enduring problem with macs and the location of libraries for CFFI. It has nothing to do with GSLL specifically. 17:37:00 Err, mc40 17:37:10 LiamH: but i can load gel with cffi:load-foreign-library no problem 17:37:16 *gsll 17:37:18 crixxus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 17:37:31 just quick loading :gall fails 17:37:43 Oh, not heard of that one. 17:37:58 I sent email yesterday 17:38:02 with details 17:38:07 to where? 17:38:59 I have not seen anything on gsll-devel. 17:39:02 gsll-devel+help 17:39:23 that will send a response telling you how to subscribe, won't it? 17:39:41 gsll-devel+help@common-lisp.net 17:39:49 Now you have to subscribe and send your message. 17:39:51 oh i see 17:39:53 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:40:17 I just thought it pinged me an acknowledgement 17:40:25 whoops 17:40:31 -!- crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:57 No. cl.net has a new minimally-functional mailing list manager now. 17:41:19 sorabji5252 [~user@ratio.devvz.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:23 is it just library locations that are the problem or is it deeper? 17:41:31 if it's just library locations that should be configurable no? 17:42:17 I'm not sure. I'm not a mac user, and I'm not sure how CFFI searches for libraries. 17:44:29 LiamH: iI sent the email and I just double checked 17:44:31 (cffi:load-foreign-library "libgslcblas.dylib") 17:44:42 works fine in my repl 17:44:45 but 17:45:17 (ql:quickload :gsll) 17:45:40 Unable to load foreign library (LIBGSLCBLAS 17:46:03 it is missing the /lib in the path it searches for 17:46:34 redscare: ah i see, sorry. Have you tried matlisp? It has its own BLAS/LAPACK version 17:47:21 mc40: That's weird. 17:48:02 I know :( it must me something simple but i am just learning Common lisp (usually an R programmer) so have had hard time pinning it down 17:48:35 -!- evenson`` [~user@178.115.133.129.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48:37 With GSL loaded, can you run (gsl::gsl-config-pathname "libgslcblas.dylib") and tell me the result? 17:49:01 no (cl-user::gsl-config-pathname "libgslcblas.dylib") 17:49:23 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has left #lisp 17:49:42 I guess that was too much for mc40 17:49:57 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 17:50:56 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:51:00 LiamH: I have to go to my daughters parent teacher meeting (uk evening) can I try you same time tomorrow?) 17:51:07 Of course 17:51:17 ok thanks 17:51:25 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 17:51:44 thanks, gotta go 17:51:53 i will be back, sorry 17:51:56 -!- redscare [~user@18.189.39.249] has left #lisp 17:52:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:52:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has joined #lisp 17:52:46 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:52:54 ebobby [~fms@189.170.10.16] has joined #lisp 17:53:03 -!- milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:03 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.10.16] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:20 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 17:53:35 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:32 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:54:34 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has joined #lisp 17:55:55 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 17:56:00 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:42 Loymoev [~loymoev@host-124-158-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 17:58:03 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:58:07 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:59:18 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.162.240.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:32 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:36 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:00:31 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:01:53 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:02:03 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:36 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:03:49 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:15 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:26 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:06:32 pmullin [~pmullin@24-231-255-219.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:29 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 18:12:03 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:12:54 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13:18 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:29 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:15:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:17:04 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-138-146.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:17:18 Good evening everyone! 18:17:38 Hello beach. 18:18:29 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-218-159.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:19 Sorry for repeating this question, but I could use some help from an SBCL guru: In McCLIM (Lisp-Dep/mp-sbcl.lisp) there are a few occurrences of GET-MUTEX which is deprecated. I would appreciate if someone could give me a version of mp-sbcl.lisp that uses the current idioms (grab-mutex, with-mutex) instead. 18:19:24 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 18:19:50 przl [~przlrkt@p579237E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:56 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 18:20:29 -!- Alfr_ is now known as Alfr 18:28:06 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 18:28:22 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 18:29:04 OK, different question: I forgot my password on common-lisp.net :( Who is the current caretaker of common-lisp.net? And does anyone know the state of the mailing lists on common-lisp.net? Are they still working? 18:29:57 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:30:23 -!- n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:23 beach: David Cooper 18:31:23 clnet@cl-foundation.org 18:31:40 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:31:47 robiv: Thanks! 18:31:54 -!- ggole [~ggole@58-7-112-100.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 18:33:57 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p579237E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:35:24 robiv: I don't seem to be able to parse the common-lisp.net information. Where did you find this info? 18:35:43 beach: whois 18:35:54 Hmm, OK. 18:36:02 it's a good tool in some instances 18:36:06 especially more formal projects 18:37:18 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:37:37 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:38:09 i got yelled at today by some loser in here because i recommended using emacs 18:38:23 robiv: uh, why? 18:38:30 i dont know 18:38:49 probably that bullshit of "terminal-only editor" 18:39:04 I want to punch in the face everyone who says that 18:39:13 ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-145.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:39 beach: I've got a potential port of mp-sbcl.lisp, do you have a test load for it? 18:43:53 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C3D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:05 redscare [~user@rle-12-031.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:46:59 fortitude: Not really, but I can try to make some tests and check the coverage. 18:47:13 fortitude: Could you email it to me? 18:47:37 sure, what's the address? 18:47:39 fortitude: Or, if you used github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM, you could send me a pull request I guess. 18:47:50 I think I can manage that 18:48:15 fortitude: Either way is fine with me. 18:48:24 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:49:00 Xach: The latest Optima release on Quicklisp doesn't compile as destructuring-case is missing from Alexandria. Should I report this somewhere? 18:49:05 LiamH: are you still there? 18:49:27 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:49:38 fortitude: Out of curiosity, did you just create it, or did you already have it lying around? 18:49:58 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 18:50:07 jao [~jao@49.114.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 -!- jao [~jao@49.114.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 18:50:23 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 beach: I just made it (it looks like the get-mutex -> grab-mutex change is pretty trivial if sbcl's manual is to be believed) 18:51:51 fortitude: Yes, except that the SBCL manual also says not to use grab-mutex directly, and instead to use with-mutex. 18:52:27 So I didn't feel confident doing the straightforward substitution. 18:52:49 the manual mentions the interrupt-safety business, but also points out how it should be called 18:53:05 True, but that's where I got lost a bit. 18:53:08 I'm not an SBCL expert either, hence "potential port" and the need for a test load... 18:53:23 OK, I'll take that into account. 18:54:43 Perhaps we could ask one of the true experts to validate it. 18:55:08 I have the feeling that testing for interrupt safety might be a bit tricky. 18:56:03 redscare` [~user@rle-12-031.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:56:29 Anyway, I should go. Thanks for the help. 18:56:35 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-138-146.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 18:58:03 -!- redscare [~user@rle-12-031.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:58:28 -!- ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-145.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:20 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:19 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:01:59 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:02 gnu emacs is the lisp operating system that respects your freedoms 19:02:42 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db4f4b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:34 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:34 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:03:34 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:03:38 robiv: programs cannot "respect" people. 19:03:50 GNU Emacs is the embodyment of software freedom 19:04:10 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:01 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:05:02 H4ns: surely they can. If my program uses curse words, it is not being respectful 19:05:07 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:05:16 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:05:29 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:70db:59d9:c53:91c4] has joined #lisp 19:05:52 Denommus: that's anthropomorphizing. If I call you names over the phone, it's not the phone that's being discrespectuf 19:05:55 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 19:06:17 let's respectfully keep the discussion on the fucking topic 19:06:18 jasom: what if my program learns? 19:07:07 argh! ejbs! 19:11:16 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:11:27 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:28 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:12:35 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:13:37 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:15:52 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:01 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 19:25:11 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:21 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E01FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:57 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:35 -!- redscare` [~user@rle-12-031.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:37 uzo [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has joined #lisp 19:27:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:04 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:32:04 -!- Loymoev [~loymoev@host-124-158-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:41 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:34:13 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:07 -!- rk[] is now known as rk[wrk] 19:36:10 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:70db:59d9:c53:91c4] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:36:26 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-3.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:57 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:39:02 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:42 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has joined #lisp 19:41:52 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-3.thefacebook.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:42:06 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-3.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:56 -!- pmullin [~pmullin@24-231-255-219.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:48:43 minion: memo for katspaugh: when you launch a CL implementation without loading its rc file and therefore without loading quicklisp, you can still use quicklisp if you explicitely load it: (load #P"~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") (ql:quickload :parenscript) 19:48:43 Remembered. I'll tell katspaugh when he/she/it next speaks. 19:51:10 xificurC [~xificurC@pat-ip-195-91-4-82.gprs.as5628.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 19:51:50 nparker [~user@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:48 -!- nparker [~user@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 19:53:56 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:54:34 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:55:41 robiv: you've got yelled at not for advising to use emacs, but for advising to use emacs lisp, and saying that emacs lisp was superior to CL. That's crazy. 19:56:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:56:11 robiv: and you're lucky I was busy at the time! 19:56:47 what do you think about clojure, pjb 19:56:57 my friend who's a java freak keeps ranting about it 19:57:49 robiv: type: /topic RET 19:58:33 robiv: on the other hand, http://cliki.net/IRC 20:00:14 -!- klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:01:29 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 20:01:51 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:02 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@113.139.170.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:02:57 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:52 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 20:06:29 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Quit: May the force be with y'all] 20:08:29 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:08:38 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:08:40 n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 20:12:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-70-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:13:13 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:13:43 beaumonta [~abeaumont@77.231.228.138] has joined #lisp 20:14:48 sy__ [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:26 -!- sy__ [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has left #lisp 20:15:32 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 20:16:03 -!- frx [frx@93-138-155-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:16:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:33 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.106.178] has joined #lisp 20:16:52 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 20:16:52 zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:12 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 20:20:10 jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:20:57 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 20:21:14 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:23:39 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E01FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:25:03 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:26:55 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:27:20 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:25 The *inferior-lisp* mode in emacs and lisp-eval-defun does 80% of what I want my eventual SLIME interface to do. It's really nice. 20:27:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-218-159.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:25 I can point to an expression in one window in emacs, hit a key and the entire top-level expression gets copied to the *inferior-lisp* frame where it is executed and I see the results. 20:28:53 *drmeister* is not going anywhere with this - just putting it out there if others have useful thoughts on inferior-lisp mode and emacs. 20:29:35 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:56 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:33:35 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:42 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-14-137.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:50 drmeister: bind this to C-x C-e: (defun lisp-eval-last-sexp (&optional and-go) "Send the previous sexp to the inferior Lisp process. Prefix argument means switch to the Lisp buffer afterwards." (interactive "P") (lisp-eval-region (save-excursion (backward-sexp) (point)) (point) and-go)) 20:37:00 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E3018.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:13 Thank you - all I've had until now was lisp-eval-defun bound to a key. 20:39:32 redscare [~user@rle-12-031.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 20:39:33 It's true that it's 80% of the value of slime. I didn't switch to slime for a couple of years thanks to that command. 20:40:15 -!- senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has quit [Quit: Sleep Now] 20:42:08 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@pat-ip-195-91-4-82.gprs.as5628.telecom.sk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:17 francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has joined #lisp 20:44:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:44:24 in case anyone is interested, to get gsll to work on mac os x you just need to change the file "init/init.lisp", line 66, the format string from "~a/" to "~a/lib/" 20:45:59 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:48:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:50:58 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:51:54 jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:54:55 seangrove [~user@c-98-207-78-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:12 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 20:57:22 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:59:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:01:33 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:49 redscare` [~user@18.189.39.249] has joined #lisp 21:02:29 -!- Vutral is now known as Vutral|krank 21:02:53 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:03:01 -!- n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:32 -!- redscare [~user@rle-12-031.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:04:39 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:03 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.32.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:21 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.32.210] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:08 Watcher7 [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:46 drmeister: actually, slime does a lot of very cool things. If you come from other langs, inferior-lisp-mode is already quite cool, but that 20% you don't miss includes about an actual 80% that you'd miss if you knew it :-) 21:16:12 -!- redscare` [~user@18.189.39.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:40 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 21:17:16 prxq: I don't have a swank implementation for my CL implementation yet. 21:20:08 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:24 wccoder [~wccoder@154.20.57.179] has joined #lisp 21:22:45 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:27:40 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C3D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:07 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:33:13 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:41 malkomalko 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timed out] 22:48:49 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:10 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:54:21 I'm a stumped by a particular behavior of restarts: http://paste.lisp.org/display/140997 22:55:33 Vivitron: in sbcl invoking custom-restart just results in returning nil. 22:55:37 for me. 22:55:51 I'm on 1.1.14 22:56:21 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:55 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:58:56 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:59:06 Bike: I annotated with the top of the backtrace it gives me 22:59:28 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 22:59:51 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:13 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@f053070040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:37 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 23:01:43 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:53 any opinions on whether the code in the paste is valid and what the conforming behavior is? 23:02:50 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:03:42 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:03:57 SBCL 1.1.6.6-d59bdfa with slime 2013-03-08, invoking the restart via slime causes the call to return NIL. 23:04:41 Same without SLIME. 23:04:47 same in sbcl 1.1.8 23:05:14 but this errors: (handler-bind ((error (lambda (e) (invoke-restart 'custom-restart)))) (trigger)) 23:05:35 Yes, THAT I see. 23:05:38 pjb: you inspired me to actually *read* slime manual ;) 23:05:52 nyef: right, my bad 23:06:17 Well, no, I used your code sample for it. 23:06:28 So it was definitely a good call to try. 23:07:18 I get the error I pasted even with a bare -no-userinit sbcl so slime doesn't seem to be affecting the behavior 23:10:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-70-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:38 For me the restart found under (compute-restarts c) but not under (compute-restarts), e.g. (block test (handler-bind ((error (lambda (e) (return-from test (compute-restarts))))) (trigger))) -- that doesn't make sense to me 23:11:22 s/found/is found/ 23:11:38 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:d539:7236:457f:9e54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:11:45 Ahh... The restart is associated with a condition? 23:12:28 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:d539:7236:457f:9e54] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 nyef: the :test is similar to a keyword argument, and the function aftwerwards is supposed to associate it to the condition 23:12:51 <_death> you can also see that with a handler-bind whose handler calls find-restart with/without the condition 23:12:53 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 23:13:10 -!- n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:13:15 <_death> if it's with the condition, the test function returns true.. if it's without the condition, the test function receives NIL and as a result returns false 23:13:42 This all sounds vaguely familiar from the last time I looked at this part of the condition system. 23:13:53 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 23:14:05 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.32.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:14:33 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 23:14:52 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15:32 but in this specific case, where the test is (typep c 'error) and the condition is of type error, it shouldn't matter if compute-restarts was called with or without the condition. if it was, then the test passes and we find the restart, if it wasn't the test is ignored and we find all the restarts 23:15:39 or do i misunderstand this bit of compute-restarts? 23:15:51 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:16:14 clhs compute-restarts 23:16:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_comp_1.htm 23:16:44 segv-: my understanding was that (compute-restarts) should find all of them regardless of the test but that certainly isn't happening in my image 23:16:45 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:17:20 That's... neat. 23:18:10 It's seeming likely that this is an issue with SBCL, but I'm certainly not in an appropriate position to say so with any certainty. 23:21:37 Thanks for taking a look at it everyone. I'll read some more and if I still can't make sense of it I'll ping #sbcl. 23:22:18 nyef: it seems sbcl's compute-restarts will call the test function if the passed in condition is nil 23:22:20 that seems wrong 23:24:09 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 23:25:29 And at this point I won't say that it isn't. But by the same token, I'm not planning to dig deeply enough into it at this point to say that it is. 23:26:00 I was wrong about how an error gets associated to a restart, that has to with with-condition-restarts and some automatic behavior in restart-case 23:27:24 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db4f4b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:26 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:33:47 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:19 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:45 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 23:35:18 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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