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I'm trying to compile a binary of a hello world web app to deploy. 03:31:08 So I compiled a binary with a hunchentoot:start in a main function that gets called. But when I run the binary it just closes right away. How do I keep the hunchentoot thread running 03:31:52 hmm... sounds like you need some basic loop or "wait for all threads to finish" thing 03:33:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:06 OneFourSeven: the main thread is exiting. You need to block it somehow 03:37:19 Denommus: Okay thanks. Another question, do people deploy web apps as binaries? 03:37:30 *nightfly* did 03:38:03 OneFourSeven: yes, you may. I'd also recommend you to load swank in your binary to be able to make changes to it while deployed 03:39:43 Xuehas [~Xuehas@206.75.37.141] has joined #lisp 03:40:33 -!- hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:45 So in my main function I print a string, start web server, and read from stdin to block thread. The string doesn't get printed until I put something into stdin, but the web server thread is running. Why is that? 03:40:54 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:03 hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:41:40 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:04 OneFourSeven: try (force-output t) after the print 03:42:25 OneFourSeven: or, better yet, read this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2078490/lisp-format-and-force-output 03:44:01 Okay, thanks again. 03:49:29 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:08 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:14:51 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 04:20:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 04:20:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:21:00 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:21:33 -!- hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:22:35 JRSHABA87 [~JR@pool-173-71-43-55.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:14 -!- JRSHABA87 [~JR@pool-173-71-43-55.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:29:54 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 04:40:19 rasrebel [~rasrebel@179.186.81.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:40:31 -!- rasrebel [~rasrebel@179.186.81.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has left #lisp 04:41:02 howdy 04:55:34 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-189-84.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 04:59:23 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:59:55 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:01:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:02:05 -!- Xuehas [~Xuehas@206.75.37.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:43 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:13:48 -!- pillton [~user@124-171-224-229.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:14:33 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:05 hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:18:49 -!- hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:21:17 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:21:54 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:22:02 -!- hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:23:20 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 05:27:59 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:23 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:31:25 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:36:09 hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:39:01 -!- hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:39:03 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:40:55 leo2007 [~leo@123.122.52.228] has joined #lisp 05:44:36 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 05:45:27 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b910:11d:d1fe:2160] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:50:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:54:55 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-139-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:00 pjb, I'm looking at your proof for f(f(n)); what does the slash bracket \{} syntax here, " a  /2p{0, M}, n(a)a" indicate? 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That's how typed racket (and other staged typed languages like OCaml + camlp4) work. 08:45:57 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:46:24 ok, so that article is, well... underdocumented braindump 08:46:31 aka a blog post 08:46:39 Yep. 08:47:00 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 I want to make a blog post about Functional Programming one of these days, I'm so fed up with people trying to believe in that as the new awesome thing etc 08:47:41 if OOP proved something, it's that a single paradigm isn't going to cut it 08:47:51 so FP... that's just another tool in your belt 08:47:55 Yeah. 08:48:06 (which is another reason why CL is so nice) 08:48:31 dim: believing in something as being the silver bullet is the privilege of youth 08:48:43 of course that blog post of mine would most certainly be a underdocumented braindump, but I would be polite enough to make it so opinionated that you can't miss it for something else ;-) 08:49:14 H4ns: hehe, food for thoughs here, yeah 08:49:41 The logic programming people did the same thing, I think. 08:50:39 Instead of looking at how people might use the logic approach within existing tools, they simply assumed that everything was going to be logic and failed massively. 08:51:14 in that light it's kind of sad that OOP didn't fail 08:51:41 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 08:51:53 Well, OOP was a lot closer to what people were already doing. 08:52:31 It also wasn't terribly clearly defined, so you could be "doing OO" without changing much about your approach. 08:52:43 This is not an accusation you could level at, say, Prolog. 08:53:09 hey, i'm using "//" comments so i'm an OO programmer! 08:53:27 haha 08:54:53 oh you're saying OOP people did apply the same technics as early christians? 08:55:08 like, don't even change your festivities calendar and the like 08:55:16 I'm fond of that part of the story ;-) 08:56:18 that and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea 08:56:26 but I'm widely Off-Topic now, sorry 08:56:52 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Kernel-Update] 08:56:56 so yeah, OOP is overrated, FP is becoming overrated too, but not in a way that I see it becoming the new OOP, unfortunately for lisp 08:57:11 Some forms of static analysis might be hampered by macros, depending on the type of macro system. It may be hard to tell an IDE the intended meaning of syntactic forms passed to a custom macro. And in Common Lisp, but not, say, Racket, how a symbol in the macro's input matches up with the output might be difficult for a static analyzer to determine 08:57:17 maybe it's time to launch a PR campain about the fact that CL is already *both* OOP and FP friendly? 08:57:42 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has joined #lisp 08:57:59 Sgeo: the symbol things is to do with macros being "hygenic" or not? 08:58:41 dim: Not sure, but I don't think so. I think it's more to do with procedural vs. pattern matching, which is often seen as non-hygienic vs. hygienic, but that's not necessarily the case 08:59:44 I should note that I'm not an expert Lisp programmer 08:59:44 If you've never used an IDE that has good tooling for macros (and I never have) then it might be fair to assume that they are a drawback 09:00:03 jewel: Well, DrRacket has some tooling for macros 09:00:30 Don't know if you'd consider them 'good' or not 09:00:31 The only macro tooling I've used so far is stuff for looking at macroexpansions conveniently 09:00:33 you need M-. support and macroexpand-1 visual support I guess... what else? 09:00:58 (And indentation, I suppose, but that's hardly a matter of rocket surgery.) 09:02:24 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gyymedbewydtmjca] has joined #lisp 09:02:24 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gyymedbewydtmjca] has quit [Changing host] 09:02:24 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:02:33 frito [~androirc@cpc15-sotn8-2-0-cust161.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:42 ggole: actually... CL has support for indicating which argument, if any, is a 'body' argument, and a lot of other Lisps don't 09:03:08 Erm, I guess not really 'which', since it's more of 'the rest of the arguments' 09:03:32 dim, you also need stack traces with line numbers 09:03:50 I wish I had that with SBCL really 09:03:53 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:22 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:05:38 Sgeo: right, but you could fix that (with, say, specially formatted comments) 09:06:00 jewel: easier said than had. for macroexpanded code, what would be the line number to show in the stack trace? 09:06:35 Location information can be richer than just line numbers 09:06:38 H4ns, that's where sophisticated tooling comes in 09:06:51 ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:59 right. "sophisticated tooling" is what lisp is not generally about. 09:07:02 What does that even /mean/. 09:07:06 You could tag it with something that indicates "this code is a result of this macro expansion " 09:07:20 Tooling can't fix everything. You're not going to get a recursive macroexpander in a fexpr-based language 09:07:29 Of course this couples the IDE and compiler/debugging machinery. 09:08:11 you can always make the argument that a "better ide" would fix this and that. from my experience with sophisticated ide's though, that does not generally help productivity. 09:08:14 frito_ [~androirc@85.255.232.166] has joined #lisp 09:08:15 ggole: something like Racket? (Not too sure) 09:08:18 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-14-137.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:08:32 i find myself to be more productive with the primitive lisp tooling in the end. 09:09:07 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc15-sotn8-2-0-cust161.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:20 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:09:48 reminds me of the "sufficiently smart compiler" line of thoughs 09:11:33 hello! I have been trying to get a rudimentary asdf file for acl2 working and I'm an absolute idiot. Here is what I have so far: https://github.com/ubikation/acl2-asdf 09:12:07 have you tried quickproject already? 09:12:21 see http://www.xach.com/lisp/quickproject/ 09:12:27 There is no package named "ACL2" is the current error 09:12:39 dim: quickproject? 09:12:49 -!- frito_ [~androirc@85.255.232.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:12:53 Sgeo: not sure, I'm aware of Racket but don't use it in anger myself. 09:13:23 I don't think I've really used any language 'in anger'. I get obsessed with languages, then eventually forget about them, often without writing any code 09:13:24 :( 09:13:31 frito_ [~androirc@85.255.232.166] has joined #lisp 09:13:37 Well, Python and Haskell are sort of defaults for me 09:13:57 -!- frito_ [~androirc@85.255.232.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:57 And have written some actual code in Tcl and Racket 09:14:10 Er, "used in anger" is an idiom meaning roughly "used seriously/in production" 09:14:15 Sorry if that wasn't clear. 09:14:33 I figured, that's how I meant it. I rarely seem to use any of the languages I get obsessed with 'seriously' 09:15:12 I think it used to refer to weaponry and has gradually moved to a more general meaning 09:15:23 Although does a Tcl bot count as serious? Does my Senior Project? (Oh god, that means I've used PHP seriously) 09:15:30 *IRC bot 09:15:57 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:16:10 Rough rule of thumb for "serious": you documented it because you had to, rather than because you wanted to. 09:16:12 thepreacher [~thepreach@87.114.134.89] has joined #lisp 09:16:44 what does "There is no package named "ACL2" ." indicate? 09:16:53 I have a simple packages.lisp that declares it 09:17:02 Senior Project and my job, then. PHP+Python+Javascript, and Java+Javascript+some other random niche stuff 09:17:30 Although... documented? Can scratch Senior Project then >.> 09:17:47 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 Learning interesting languages can broaden your perspective even if you don't end up relying on them, so I wouldn't be too worried. 09:18:16 Yeah, but is it 'learning' if I barely write code in them? 09:18:32 I've been writing a few Kernel snippits lately, I guess 09:18:38 frito_ [~androirc@85.255.235.56] has joined #lisp 09:18:45 Mostly because of complaining about it 09:18:54 Although I really want to love it 09:19:08 I think the interesting thing is the amount of "mental leverage" gained, not the amount of code written 09:20:19 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 09:20:43 -!- jdz is now known as Guest80869 09:20:48 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@87.114.134.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:01 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 09:21:12 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:22:10 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:22:13 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:23:29 sometimes you need to write code to understand those leverages, tho 09:23:54 I wouldn't be enthousiastic about handler-bind before using it in real code 09:24:10 -!- frito_ [~androirc@85.255.235.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:24:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:24:19 I'm not enthousiastic about restarts yet, and I can't wait to have to implement them ;-) 09:24:50 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814575.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:26:15 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31:58 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 09:34:10 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:38 ECL, compiling Postmodern, saith: An error occurred during initialization: In method definition for TO-SQL-STRING, found an invalid specializer (DOUBLE-FLOAT). 09:36:58 so I guess I won't be producing pgloader binaries with ECL then 09:37:16 I tried with: ecl -load ~/quicklisp/setup.lisp -eval '(ql:quickload "pgloader")' 09:37:23 and ECL 13.5.1 09:43:09 harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has joined #lisp 09:44:38 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:46:04 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:00:20 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 10:01:47 dim, have you looked at trying to add lines numbers to SBCL traces? 10:03:14 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:15 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814575.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:31 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 10:07:03 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:10:01 what is a big project that uses asdf2's features? 10:11:38 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@110.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:17:03 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:18:07 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:13 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:19:23 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814575.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:19:23 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:19a0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 10:22:51 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:8518:7dbc:c5f5:b662] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:24:37 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:25:50 how does a common lisp case statement work? I want to compare strings 10:26:50 Not usefully for that case. 10:26:59 How many strings? 10:27:02 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 10:27:19 "for that case", heh, heh 10:27:25 alexas [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has joined #lisp 10:27:33 3 or so 10:27:39 Consider cond. 10:27:52 Zhivago: thanks! 10:28:17 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Client Quit] 10:29:06 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 10:30:05 so this is the right format?: http://paste.lisp.org/display/140957 10:30:31 I'm not sure -- what do you want to achieve? 10:32:46 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCC80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:46 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:47 vaporatorius [~vaporator@80.31.5.241] has joined #lisp 10:36:04 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@195.180.2.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:37 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:49 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has left #lisp 10:44:52 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:46:55 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:49:41 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56:57 ubikation: you mean ASDF3, surely 11:01:25 -!- ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:27 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:52 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:02:49 is there a way to run lisp code in sandbox? 11:03:10 Not portably. 11:03:12 jackdaniel: common lisp itself does not provide any sandboxing facilities. 11:03:14 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 11:03:17 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:03:25 thanks 11:06:53 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.64.64] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:07:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:42 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:11:15 -!- effy [~x@114.250.82.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:13:33 Is a lambda list containing &optional and &key bad practice? i.e. (lambda (&optional a &key b) ...) 11:13:45 SBCL emits a style warning. 11:13:50 It is somewhat astounding. 11:14:05 It means that if you want to have keys you'll need to supply the optional value. 11:14:06 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:14:20 e.g. (foo nil :bar 1) 11:14:27 What is astounding, having &optional and &key, or the style warning? 11:14:45 I wasn't expecting any other behaviour? 11:15:03 Sorry, ..behaviour. 11:15:40 What is somewhat astounding is needing to supply the optional to be able to supply the key. 11:16:01 If that makes sense for your use case, then knock yourself out. :) 11:16:15 I suspected that was the case. 11:16:47 I'll just use keys instead. 11:17:23 Do you have the same problem with &rest? 11:19:06 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 11:20:20 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:28 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:22:40 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:02 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.64.64] has joined #lisp 11:24:20 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-84-139.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:24:49 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:25:56 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:30:26 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.64.64] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:31:36 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Quit: Foo?] 11:34:12 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:34:32 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 11:36:35 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 11:36:53 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 11:38:45 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:38:45 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-197.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:42:42 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:10 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:55:58 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCC80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:01 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:09:07 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177961259.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:21 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:37 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 12:21:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:27:15 -!- loke [~elias@2400:d803:7342:f91a:b138:2e75:14ee:1cd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:44 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 ndrei [~avo@37.163.232.96] has joined #lisp 12:34:31 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 12:37:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 loke [~elias@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9c67:80a4:96f:eb3b] has joined #lisp 12:41:03 pillton: all the &key arguments are collected in &rest. When you have &key you can only have an even number of &rest arguments. 12:44:10 abunchofdollarsi: \ is the set difference. /2p = [0,1,,M-1,M,M+1,,2p-1], /2p{0, M} = [1,,M-1][M+1,,2p-1] 12:45:47 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:46:55 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:02 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-189-84.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:47:47 KaiQ [~localhost@wlan253128.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:14 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 12:51:08 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.68.3] has joined #lisp 12:51:19 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:52:43 oxum [~oxum@122.174.21.100] has joined #lisp 12:54:00 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:56 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 13:00:25 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:13 askatasuna 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[~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:54:00 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 14:01:59 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 14:03:35 -!- pskosinski [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/pskosinski] has quit [Quit: http://igg.me/p/597505/x/6111010 Resurrect Revenge Of The Cats: Ethernet As Open-Source Project] 14:03:47 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:53 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:01 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@wlan253128.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:17 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:47 KaiQ [~localhost@wlan253128.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:56 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:09:28 -!- Guest80869 is now known as jdz 14:10:35 -!- joserr [c99b1906@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.155.25.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 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timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:30 cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:58 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oyfiigrczshgzrul] has joined #lisp 14:30:45 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:01 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:32:44 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 14:34:01 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-76-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:16 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:03 bubobubo [~user@s15430401.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 14:37:13 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:39 Hello everybody 14:39:24 Please explain how to invert a matrix with gsll 14:40:55 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:08 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:41:20 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-161-229.netcologne.de] has 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[~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:25 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has joined #lisp 14:55:17 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 14:55:31 Hello 14:57:05 -!- alexas [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has quit [Quit: Chao!] 14:57:14 Hello! 14:58:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:58:39 hi all 14:58:57 Good morning 15:02:05 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-164.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 hi 15:04:02 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 15:04:28 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:08:39 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:09:25 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:10:06 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:10:56 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:11:14 Hello, people. 15:11:33 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:50 Axord [~axo@pool-173-55-135-64.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:15:16 -!- bubobubo [~user@s15430401.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:15:48 hitecnologys: don't forget the bots 15:16:13 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-213-213.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:18:31 minion: greetings! 15:18:31 you speak nonsense 15:18:45 :( 15:18:50 billstclair [~billstcla@67.158.164.18] has joined #lisp 15:18:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@67.158.164.18] has quit [Changing host] 15:18:59 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 Apparently, he doesn't like me much. 15:19:25 -!- j_king is now known as jking 15:19:46 -!- jking is now known as j_king 15:20:25 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:33 leo2007 [~leo@123.122.52.228] has joined #lisp 15:23:44 unless nonsense is a great compliment among bots, as one could understand coming from a civilization based on strict logic. Ob lisp: I'll close those parens :) 15:23:45 -!- Romanus [~roman@s15430401.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [] 15:25:43 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:25:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.122.52.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:01 Watcher7 [~w@adsl-108-210-216-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:06 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:27:32 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:27:59 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 15:29:15 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:30:00 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:30:01 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:33:35 bling^ [~weechat@207-38-254-107.c3-0.43d-ubr2.qens-43d.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:49 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:34:17 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:59 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.68.3] has joined #lisp 15:36:03 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:36:35 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:37:43 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:39:52 kreslinsh [~kreslinsh@193.28.144.154] has joined #lisp 15:44:38 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:37 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:48:44 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@wlan253128.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:44 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 15:51:39 -!- kreslinsh [~kreslinsh@193.28.144.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:16 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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[c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 17:54:12 -!- slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:24 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:09 Hi, please see what is wro,ng with this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/140968 today is the 20th so I expected 50% N and 50% Z but the results are always biased! 17:55:37 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814575.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:49 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:51 have you heard of let*? 17:55:57 there must be something wrong with the code but can't identify where 17:56:37 and nth-value 17:56:40 sure nicer but that's not the influencing factor 17:57:12 is that truly the minimal example showing the problem? 17:57:14 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 17:57:14 i'm not quite sure what you're asking 17:57:29 that's the minimal of course 17:58:12 so if you hardcode the value of date to 20 the code behaves as you expect? 17:58:25 well you can use a bash script to run it multiple times: COUNTER=100 until [ $COUNTER -lt 0 ]; do sbcl --script example.lisp let COUNTER-= 0 done 17:58:37 i believe (random 1.0) would be the minimal example 17:58:55 sorry COUNTER-= 1 17:59:09 that's not a good way of testing random numbers 17:59:14 i think if you make a random state every time it'll start with the same sequence. 17:59:14 you're testing for the random seed 17:59:36 Bike: not with t 17:59:43 ok, right. 17:59:44 Bike! that's news to me 17:59:57 but depending on the impl it might be poorly-random like the current time to second resolution 17:59:58 ah yes it's with t 18:00:16 so, yeah, you should make-random-state *OUTSIDE ALL LOOPS*. 18:00:16 "If state is [the default] nil, the new-state is a copy[5] of the current random state." 18:00:34 so you copy the current random state again and again so it's going to be in the same place. 18:00:48 francogrex is passing T 18:01:02 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 18:01:16 oh. 18:01:24 (let ((rnd (make-random-state t))) ... it's not expected to be the same at each run of the script 18:01:26 well, running it here i get about 50/50 anyway. 18:01:27 francogrex: if you want good results from a PRNG, you should seed it once and use many results from it. thus, put your 100-samples loop _inside_ the (let ((rnd (make-random-state t))) ...) 18:01:34 everyone says the SLIME IDE in emacs is divine.....can scheme folk use it too or is everyone that doesn't use CL toast? 18:01:55 kpreid: but that's totally not the purpose 18:02:02 francogrex: then you need to do something else. 18:02:11 (loop repeat 10000 count (<= (random 1.0 (make-random-state t)) 0.5)) => 4991, close enough 18:02:15 no, it must be explanable 18:02:49 explainable to who? in what aspect? 18:02:57 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:02:58 yeah, there's no bias. 18:03:11 also, you could choose a different CL implementation which implements (make-random-state t) with stronger randomness 18:03:36 ok 18:03:57 with the example from stassats I get also something close to what is expected: 4949 18:04:11 but calling (make-random-state t) each time is a sure way to make your program slow 18:04:36 theseb: it's not divine for scheme 18:04:36 don't expect exactly 5000 every time, of course 18:04:50 francogrex: what CL implementation are you using? 18:04:52 it's strange that restarting the lisp process might have that effect on randomeness 18:05:03 sbcl now I will try to ecl 18:05:14 francogrex: not really: it starts from an image, and the image is in the same state each time 18:05:33 so it can be _different_ only if it consults outside sources 18:06:15 crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 18:09:00 hm, sbcl uses OS random sources for (make-random-state t), so that's surprising 18:09:03 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-51.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:32 stassats: well that stinks....i have trouble indenting my code and was hoping for a divine editor to take care of that for me 18:10:40 (loop repeat 1000 count (string= "T" (with-output-to-string (str) (sb-ext:run-program "sbcl" '("--noinform" "--eval" "(princ (<= (random 1.0 (make-random-state t)) 0.5))" "--eval" "(quit)") :search t :output str)))) => 505 18:10:57 stassats: seems an automagic lisp code editor should be compatible across any and all lisp flavors 18:11:06 theseb: slime isn't the thing that performs indentation in emacs 18:11:08 stassats: at least the code indentation part 18:11:32 stassats: is there some special emacs mode that can automagically indent any lisp dialects source? 18:11:35 with ECL it is wierder even; I get stretches of zzzznnnnnzzzzz never an alternating znz pattern 18:11:43 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:49 theseb: this is built-in 18:11:54 that's probably a current-time based seed 18:12:12 stassats: here's the deal...unlike C/Python/Java...in lisp you don't tend to have lots of little 1 line instructions...rather you have multiline list monsters....so i'm in a new world 18:12:41 but proportions are better almost 50/50 18:12:54 stassats: i suppose a lisper could set lots of intermediate vars like in C/Python/Java.... 18:12:56 analyzing random sequences well is hard. 18:13:08 francogrex: technically an alternating sequence of values has a perfect ratio, but terrible randomness 18:13:33 francogrex: also if you call make-random-state every time, you're restricting the randomness to that of whatever initializes the state 18:13:36 theseb: i don't understand what you're talking about 18:13:39 18:13:41 trickyhero [~trickyher@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:42 18:13:46 which might actually have poorer randomness than RAND 18:13:59 -!- trickyhero [~trickyher@d4-50-215-4.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 18:14:34 stassats: ok..i'm try again....lisp source is typically multiline expressions.....that is different than what i'm used to in other langs 18:14:43 fortitude: I am interested in "to that of whatever initializes the state" 18:14:49 i see plenty of alternations in ECL too, but always alternating wouldn't be random, now, would it be? 18:15:02 stassats: there are multiple ways to indent massive expressions 18:15:06 whichever way you call it 18:15:24 francogrex: the CLHS says that (make-wait-state t) return a state object that "has been randomly initialized by some means" 18:15:26 you mean looping so fast won't allow a proper re-init of the stat 18:15:35 depending on the implementation, those means might be great, or terrible 18:15:51 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:46 (make-random-state t) you mean 18:16:51 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814575.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:10 ok thanks 18:18:06 it looks like you're just misinterpreting the results 18:22:28 -!- slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:22:29 brb 18:22:32 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:22:45 sy__ [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:53 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:07 -!- sy__ is now known as zophy 18:24:44 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:25:15 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:30:12 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:46 scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:14 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:40 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:20 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bupkdeogglzxxznl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:37:47 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qipqolwadytewsjr] has joined #lisp 18:38:45 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:46:06 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:35 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:53:52 HG` [~HG@95.154.241.68] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:06 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:02:06 Argh: Why is (let ((*print-escape* t)) (format t "~a~%" '(print "Hello"))) --> (print Hello) rather than (print "Hello") - or better yet - how do I get the latter? 19:03:07 Never mind: (format t "~s~%" '(print "Hello")) 19:04:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:05:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:04 Or as the CLHS puts it: "~A binds *print-escape* to false, and *print-readably* to false." 19:07:23 huangho [~guest@191.220.227.249] has joined #lisp 19:08:08 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 drmeister: also using ~S might get you into trouble if you don't want symbol packages printed 19:09:57 -!- HG` [~HG@95.154.241.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:21 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:53 -!- huangho [~guest@191.220.227.249] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:31 huangho [~guest@191.220.227.249] has joined #lisp 19:15:01 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:11 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 19:16:21 evenson 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[~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 20:15:19 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:17 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:49 -!- zophy [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:18:05 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:20:13 -!- crixxus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:32 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:22:19 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:46 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:53 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814575.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:09 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:33:09 http://bpaste.net/show/170261/ <- any suggestions? 20:33:19 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:33:31 *with-open-files macro 20:34:45 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 20:36:07 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 20:36:22 jackdaniel: that will break if the body has more than one form and you don't specify a filespec 20:36:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:07 evenson [~user@77.119.132.151.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:23 ive looked for recursive macros but couldn't find examples :| 20:38:40 jackdaniel: you also don't want ,@(cdr filespecs) 20:38:44 `(progn ,@body) 20:41:07 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:07 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:41:26 are there issues with deeply nesting things like unwind-protect? 20:41:53 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:42:53 Nobody ever seen any issue about it. Why do you ask? 20:43:13 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:44:35 thanks. http://bpaste.net/show/170263/ - result 20:46:22 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-66.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:25 nobody ever seen? sbcl on windows had broken nested unwind-protect for some time 20:46:44 Well, sure, sbcl is a work in progress. That doesn't count. 20:46:53 nha [~prefect@koln-5d818c2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 haven't seen pjb spins for some time, can't say i missed them 20:47:27 -!- evenson [~user@77.119.132.151.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:48 I wouldn't expect drmeister implementation to be bug free around unwind-protect or some other stuff for now either. 20:48:16 I was mostly just thinking expanding to a big let form would be less problematic 20:48:17 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 20:48:21 francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has joined #lisp 20:48:34 *francogrex* is back 20:50:10 pjb: Do you have any sample code that would test unwind-protect? 20:50:32 fortitude: the standard doesn't say there's any limit on the number of nested unwind-protect. It says there's a limit on the number of argument a function can take, and it's introspectable with the call-arguments-limit constant. 20:51:29 My unwind-protect is built upon the "Itanium exception handling" ABI which underpins C++ exception handling. 20:52:09 pjb: I figured there wasn't a standardized issue, but since unwind-protect has to store some sort of dynamic context, doesn't that pose problems with stuff like tail-call optimization? 20:52:26 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:34 -!- rk[aft] is now known as rk[] 20:52:39 unwind-protect stops tail-call optimizations 20:52:42 (naturally) 20:52:45 right 20:53:56 n0n0 [~n0n0___@adsl-75-10-252-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:42 (defun generate-nested-unwind-protect (n) (if (zerop n) (if (zerop (random 2)) '(return-from test 42) '33) `(unwind-protect ,(generate-nested-unwind-protect (1- n)) (decf n)))) (defmacro test (n) `(let ((n ,n)) ,(generate-nested-unwind-protect n) (assert (zerop n)))) (test 100) 20:55:00 fails on (test 10000) in ccl with Stack overflow on value stack. 20:58:55 Cool - testing... 20:59:17 There's a bug. 20:59:32 (defmacro test (n) `(block test (let ((n ,n)) ,(generate-nested-unwind-protect n) (assert (zerop n))))) 21:00:12 i'm not quite sure what the (zerop (random 2)) part is supposed to be 21:00:35 You can't read lisp code 21:00:55 thanks, that clears things up 21:01:18 hey stassats! if you would enjoy another optimisation game, I have something for you to chew on ;-) http://paste.lisp.org/display/140913#1 21:01:37 dim: but i can't read lisp code 21:02:02 stassats: I don't care that you can read lisp code that pjb writes, I care that I can read code that you write 21:02:33 -!- cmpitg is now known as cmpitg|zZzZz 21:02:52 -!- neoncortex is now known as neon 21:03:16 -!- neon is now known as neoncortex 21:03:16 dim: do you have a test case where i can compare timings? 21:03:24 https://github.com/AccelerationNet/cl-csv/issues/13 has one 21:03:31 i can see a couple of ways to make this faster 21:03:58 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCC80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:03:59 *drmeister* is in the middle of a rebuild and will test this shortly. 21:04:33 I tried the real buffering thingy, where I wanted to accumulate independant buffers and keep testing --- worked well for single-char delimiter, I couldn't hack it into working in the general case 21:05:12 like, what if the string delimiter spans several buffers? is larger than a single buffer, so that it could span more than two buffers when splited? etc 21:05:24 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:05:45 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 21:05:52 oh and I failed to implement Boyer&Moore in a quick and dirty way and took that as a personal insult to my aging capabilities and went the easy way that is paste #1 above instead 21:06:19 BM for a single character? 21:07:01 nope, for the substring case 21:07:25 ok, i thought the second paste eschewed substrings, based on the doscstring 21:07:30 (read-until stream #\Return) or (read-until stream "delimiter string") 21:07:44 I might have failed to update the docstring yes 21:10:45 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.213.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:56 okay time to call it a day for me 21:11:30 stassats: if you have fun then results, I'll sure be still interested tomorrow and after that, as will bobbysmith0071 here who maintains cl-csv ;-) 21:16:27 pjb: What is (test ##) supposed to return? nil? 21:17:38 -!- cauldron [~cauldron@91.210.101.181] has quit [K-Lined] 21:17:38 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-186-97.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:09 pjb: And is the time this takes linear or some other function of ##? 21:20:05 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:20:46 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:55 (test 2) immediatly returns nil, (test 100) returns nil, (test 1000) takes about 2 minutes and returns nil. 21:21:11 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:56 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-173-36-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:02 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:35 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 21:24:52 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.137.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:56 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:25:28 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC4465.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:26:02 sparka [~sparka@193.105.154.56] has joined #lisp 21:28:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:41 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-189-84.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 21:31:17 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-173-36-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:17 *drmeister* ran into a separate problem related to something he was working on - will continue test once resolved. 21:34:22 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:50 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 21:37:33 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 21:39:37 drmeister: depending on whether (random 2) is 0 or not, it should return exceptionally 42, or normally 33. In all cases, it should decrement n times n. 21:39:48 You people should learn to read code 21:40:16 *drmeister* doesn't really care if he can read lisp code - he cares if his compiler can read code. 21:40:21 i'm tempted to say "you should learn to write" 21:40:27 but i won't say it 21:40:33 abd yes, if it returns nil there's a problem. 21:41:31 But let's use (defmacro test (n) `(block test (let ((n ,n)) (prog1 ,(generate-nested-unwind-protect n) (assert (zerop n)))))) to see the 33 being returned. 21:41:39 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:28 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 21:43:57 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:58 It appears to have uncovered a loose NULL pointer in my system - must fix. 21:46:28 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 21:46:40 First - do complete system recompile - something is squirrely. 21:47:00 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:47:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:47:55 pjb: Thanks for the test - I've dropped it into evernote and once everything is recompiled I'll use it to ferret out whatever my current problem is. 21:49:28 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-177-191.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:39 FYI: I'm developing a C++ refactoring tool in Common Lisp - here's what a script looks like: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/cd2f2d357bb62487fd24 21:50:04 Here's what the log file for that script looks like: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6229900/session.log 21:50:04 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-177-191.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:27 I'm interested in comments, criticisms and witticisms. 21:51:08 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51:21 drmeister: I'm jalous of your capability and ability :-) 21:51:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:52:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:25 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:57 pjb: Oh jeeze - not that. But thanks. I'm leveraging a bunch of good ideas that I've gleaned from other people. 21:54:02 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:54:23 Clang ASTMatching library, Common Lisp, C++ template programming (ok, that's a really bad idea). 21:54:53 Oops, I've just been reminded I need to run to a reception. BBL 21:55:28 -!- sparka [~sparka@193.105.154.56] has quit [K-Lined] 21:57:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-177-191.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:03 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-177-191.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 22:03:40 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:22 -!- tokenrov1 [~julian@198-91-129-233.cpe.distributel.net] has left #lisp 22:06:00 bondar [~bondar@41.206.56.134] has joined #lisp 22:06:08 -!- bondar [~bondar@41.206.56.134] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:11:38 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:26 zophy [sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:43 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 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quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:18:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:20:02 can I loop through a string backwards? 23:20:10 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:35 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.4.90] has joined #lisp 23:22:24 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:23:13 (loop for i from (1- (length string)) downto 0 for ch = (aref string i) do (something ch)) 23:23:45 or (reverse your-string) first. 23:24:22 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:24:42 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:24:42 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has 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