00:00:18 Chúc mng nm mi 00:00:44 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:50 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@250.Red-88-5-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:10 You win :D 00:02:12 ! 00:02:26 D: 00:02:32 I don't use logical pathnames. 00:02:44 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-217.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:52  00:02:55 The problem with slashy names is that, before them, any system name that could be loaded could be named by a valid pathname-name string. 00:02:58 Xach: good for you. 00:03:02 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 00:03:12 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 00:03:14 Syntax error 00:03:17 isn't that still true of the primary system name? 00:03:39 Maybe. 00:03:40 you load the primary system name, and then the system should exist. 00:03:51 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:03:56 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:58 That doesn't seem likely. 00:04:11 how not so? 00:04:28 If foo.asd does not define a system named "foo/bar", then loading it will not make such a system exist. 00:04:43 It might be a system, or it might not. 00:04:49 yes, but then nothing should define it 00:05:04 so, you want a definitive list of all systems defined by foo.asd ? 00:05:14 Anyway, I used the name of the system to name a file that stored information about the system. 00:05:24 If the system is named "foo/bar", it is harder to do that. 00:05:28 :-/ 00:05:32 Logical pathnames were not involved. 00:05:56 could you store information about all the secondary systems in the same file as the primary system? 00:06:13 There are many potential ways to solve the problem, they all involve some work. 00:06:23 in the case of one-file, one-package, one-secondary-system — how would you handle it? 00:06:25 sorry about that 00:06:45 nyef, drewc and I at least use that package-system style. 00:07:01 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-109.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 00:07:25 and before us, Peter Etter with faslpath, though it used an incompatible naming convention with . instead of / as a separator. 00:08:12 the point of / for secondary systems was precisely to not clash with another primary system. 00:08:21 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:08:32 i.e. if I had used . as separator, then there would be a clash between foo.bar.asd and foo.asd 00:08:47 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:09:13 Fare: Is drewc still working on Lisp on Lines? 00:09:53 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:16:40 dunno about Lisp on Lines. He's still writing CL code, that's for sure. 00:17:51 I think Lisp on Lines is mostly dead, but I'll ask drewc. 00:18:07 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 00:18:36 nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has joined #lisp 00:21:19 I've spent the day working on a way to make it easy to go back to earlier versions of the quicklisp client code. That will make me happier about making updates that potentially break Quicklisp for some people. 00:21:39 apparently, drewc tells me that the LoL he published has been abandoned, but he keeps using a somewhat simplified version without contextl or most mop but just alists, that's he'll hopefully publish shortly. 00:22:19 shouldn't it be OK that some dists require a newer quicklisp client? 00:22:35 It is awful, but there does not appear to be any other way. 00:22:52 the world marches on. 00:23:05 I wish! 00:23:13 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:23:23 I'm glad not to support asdf1 anymore, or even early asdf2. Or actually anything older than the 2.019 still shipped with LispWorks. 00:23:30 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-50-181-199-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:22 Actually, in practice, anything older than Quicklisp's 2.26 I consider legacy. 00:24:59 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-109.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:26:23 Xach: what about "just" making sure the old client can keep using the old set of tarballs? 00:28:54 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:56 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:32:49 backward compatibility is a bitch, forward compatibility is even worse. From ASDF experience, *OUCH*. 00:34:52 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZ] 00:35:32 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:51 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:43:43 _8hzp [~user@87-93-43-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 00:47:15 -!- hzp [~user@188-67-136-27.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:47:30 That is how it will work. 00:47:54 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:12 blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:30 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:52:28 ggrant` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:45 My intention from the beginning is that people could use the libraries in Quicklisp as the basis for a private project without forever chasing the bleeding edge or maintaining entirely their own versions, but providing a simple way to go to a coherent set of libraries from a given time period. Now I will make sure that confidence extends to Quicklisp and supporting software itself. 00:53:35 One thing I'd like quicklisp to do is to be able to copy libraries, and all their dependencies, into a separate directory for checking & repeatable builds. I've done that manually, but it hasn't been a big enough issue to warrant subscribing to the mailing list etc etc 00:53:49 Phoodus: I really want that too. 00:54:08 good :) 00:54:11 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:54:12 I want to make it easy to remove Quicklisp from the environment. 00:54:22 And just have something that has exactly what you need, no more or less. 00:54:46 *Xach* has been idly thinking about maintaining sets of lisp implementations for a given timeframe, too. 00:56:03 well, dlowe is going to do that for me, with his apt repos for stuff 00:56:22 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 00:57:35 yeah, SBCL in ubuntu is very out of date, and we've hit a lot pfo problems with that 00:57:56 there are likely lots of crusty lisp implementation versions out there 00:59:31 Sometimes you want something that's crusty and compatible. 00:59:39 Corvidium [~cosman246@97-113-18-62.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:38 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.102.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:02:44 -!- ggrant` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:22 ggrant [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:36 Compatible with what? Ubuntu? 01:06:13 heddwch: old lisp software? 01:06:33 something as #+sbcl(sb-ext:quit) can cause incompatibilites 01:06:34 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:54 heddwch: a given development project 01:06:58 Eh, true, but it'll be updated next release, it's not old for any particular reason other than being old. 01:07:39 heddwch: and then the next release breaks something that some other project was using... 01:08:33 No, I know, I was just referring specifically to Ubuntu having an old version of SBCL 01:08:58 heddwch: I'm saying that old lisp software might need an old version of sbcl 01:09:38 That might be true, but it's more likely just because Ubuntu's not rolling-release, so you just always have out-of-date software. 01:09:39 the problem there is somebody gets a fresh OS install, checks out code, doesn't build or is spammed with warnings because it doesn't support what the dev box does 01:10:21 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:10:53 "No, you need to get SBCL yourself and uninstall the ubuntu-provided one, because that's old" 01:11:01 "But I just downloaded and installed this OS" 01:12:05 Yea, but that's not unique to SBCL. That's why a lot of projects have a suggested build environment and just only support that. 01:12:06 It's *that* old? 01:14:31 the latest ubuntu LTS is still holding at SBCL 1.0.55 01:14:36 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:14:41 *heddwch* notes "LTS" 01:15:05 yeah, and that LTS means lots of stuff inside this OS gets continually updated to newer versions 01:15:12 Oh.. I see. 01:15:49 Only for security updates, mostly. 01:15:59 no, there are tons of application updates 01:16:14 Ah, then what's the point of LTS? 01:16:21 I thought it was to keep a stable platform. 01:16:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-23-231.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:46 I presume it's to prevent the OS itself from upgrading, while keeping everything it runs supported. At least that's what it seems to imply in terms of practical use 01:17:13 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:14 Ah, I wonder what their definition of OS is.. 01:17:17 and while I haven't tracked linux kernel versions, I bet it doesn't do any major upgrades of that during long term support 01:17:29 well, my definition of Linux is "Something you can build an OS out of" :) 01:17:41 -!- ggrant [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:09 Well, that's what I'm meaning. Linux is a kernel, with various GNU and otherwise tools layered on top, so I wonder where their border for 'OS' is 01:18:17 but I also doubt they'd change things like which cron/init/etc tool they use, meaning sticking within the same family and keep updated, not bump to a different program 01:18:35 again, assumption 01:18:44 Yea 01:19:40 ggrant [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:40 -!- EvW1 [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:b0c0:5965:61ce:7423] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:06 cemk [~cole@ip70-171-14-23.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:55 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:d511:e9eb:f9a6:cf6f] has joined #lisp 01:34:47 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:35:10 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-26.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 01:35:10 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-26.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:10 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 01:42:01 pmai 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quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:24 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:41 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 03:09:02 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:16:24 -!- dnm [~user@67-131-0-251.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:17:36 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:48 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 03:25:23 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@97-113-18-62.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25:25 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:25:33 karswell [~user@239.54.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:09 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:27:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:52 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-47.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:32 -!- zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:46 axion [~axion@pool-108-4-159-87.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:34 nipra [~nipra@122.177.29.103] has joined #lisp 03:47:51 nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has joined #lisp 03:53:51 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-47.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:01:18 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 04:02:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has quit [Quit: reboot overheated macbook] 04:02:33 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:20 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 04:10:29 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:12:17 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 04:12:30 -!- hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:10 if class BAR inherits a slot S from class FOO with :allocation :class, and overrides that slot -- is the default allocation for the subclass slot :class or :instance ? 04:14:47 the answer, apparently, is :instance; :allocation :class is not inherited. 04:14:57 I suppose the reason :allocation :class is not inherited is so as not to have a complex rule in the case of multiple inheritance. Still, I was surprised. 04:15:57 Inherited unless explicitly overridden, isn't it? 04:18:33 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 04:18:48 What's the policy for dead links on Cliki? 04:19:02 For projects that aren't active, have deadlinks, etc. 04:19:29 I was thinking putting a notice that said "As of _____, these links are dead" and emailing the supposed maintainer about it 04:20:22 But if the links are the only place to find the maintainer and it's really not obvious where to find any information about the previously active project to begin with, is it entirely bad form to just... mark as obsolete, or dead-linked, and move it to the bottom of whatever list it was on? 04:23:01 -!- frgo [~frgo@p5498EEAF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:27:34 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 04:28:24 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:58 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:10 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@198.178.121.206] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:37:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:37:37 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 04:41:13 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-125-56.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:44:23 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:43 -!- keen_ [~blackened@p3b920cc5.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has left #lisp 04:57:02 -!- axion [~axion@pool-108-4-159-87.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:57:50 hmmm 04:58:16 snits [~snits@75-167-8-215.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:23 the 3.0.35 kernel from jas' Jessie debian doesn't have I/O accounting compiled in 04:58:44 oh damn wrong channel sorry fellas 05:03:39 -!- davazp [~user@14.Red-79-152-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:15 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.29.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:10:02 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:12:26 There probably should be a cliki convention for dead entries 05:12:33 maybe a topic *(obsolete) ? 05:13:23 *Fare* seems to have found some workarounds that solve the ASDF upgrade problem on CMUCL 05:13:51 looks like the declaim optimize with non-standard values confuses CMUCL's PCL. 05:13:59 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:38 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 05:17:44 ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:16 nipra [~nipra@122.177.92.143] has joined #lisp 05:26:35 _andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 05:31:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:31 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:39:32 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-251.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:43 jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:45 How would you go about generating random code to test a compiler/interpreter? 05:41:40 the hard thing about generating random code is determining if the executed output is "correct" or not, as by definition the effects are random 05:41:41 Keyboard 05:42:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 05:42:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 05:42:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:42:44 Right; but lets say I have a test and control implementation and I want to compare their states after running the generated code. 05:43:59 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:23 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:44:33 abunchofdollarsi: languages have grammars, use the grammar to generate programs. take a look at the techniques used for toy programs like random english sentence generators 05:45:10 Right; the grammar makes it trivial to get syntax correct. But how to make programs that do 'interesting' things? 05:45:19 That's very hard. Don't bother. 05:45:30 You might be interested in Koza's work on genetic programs. 05:46:01 At most, try to exclude uninteresting things: for example, put a low-but-not-zero probability of generating a variable reference that isn't accompanied by a declaration. 05:46:05 To apply that, you would probably take two ASTs and graft a branch from one over or as a new branch onto the other. 05:46:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:46:31 You can then evaluate it for fitness, which is where you need to work out what 'interesting' means. 05:46:45 Sounds interesting. 05:46:59 Another possibility is to devise some way to produce a broad but well-defined set of programs. 05:47:01 Wouldn't it make sense to boild down the language to a very small subset before generating random code? 05:47:14 Languages like Brainfuck is much easier to analyse than Lisp 05:47:36 Why do you believe that the size of a language affects the ease of analysis significantly? 05:47:49 Regularity, I might understand ... 05:47:50 For example, you could take one of every expression and try putting it as a child-node (in valid locations) of every other expression, and fill out the rest with stubs to make it valid. 05:48:20 Or you could just make smaller and smaller grafts until one takes. 05:48:21 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:48:21 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:22 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 05:48:24 -!- nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:48:48 BF is the best managed language. No possible way to generate an exception 05:49:06 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:49:34 unless you run the edges of the buffer 05:49:56 Fare: See, I saw that, but I don't think "obsolete topic" applies to the dead projects in the "Email" section, for example. Email itself isn't obsolete, only some of the links there are. Unless I'm misunderstanding how to use obsolete-topic. 05:50:35 Some implementations wrap around, iirc 05:52:15 heddwch: Turing is smiling in his grave 05:53:27 :) 05:53:51 nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:27 -!- pdk [~realname@c-71-236-103-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:57:37 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-171-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:59:38 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:36 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:03:49 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:06:17 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:39 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:03 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:28 -!- Guest95439 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:53 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:53 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:54 -!- dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:59 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.92.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:08:20 rest [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 06:08:55 -!- rest [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:59 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:29 oh. Maybe just an _(obsolete) marker, then? 06:11:40 -!- resttime [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:57 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:35 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:36 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-224-107-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:17:25 blacklab` [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:41 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:43 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:01 What do you think of using markov chain on a large valid program? 06:18:51 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 06:19:25 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:20:06 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:57 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:22:57 -!- gko_ [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:26:16 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:27:06 I think you shouldn't 06:27:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:11 and yeah if you want to play that ball definitely look at evolutionary algorithms and genetic programming 06:29:06 abunch: To solve what problem? 06:32:03 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:56 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:27 -!- snits [~snits@75-167-8-215.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40:47 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 06:40:57 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 06:41:28 nipra [~nipra@122.177.148.215] has joined #lisp 06:42:26 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:42:31 jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 06:44:08 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:46:24 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:46:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:46:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:47:57 Zhivago, I want to generate programs to test an interpreter against a control interpreter. 06:48:17 Trying to find bugs in the long tail. 06:50:00 So, what problem do you think that markov chain generators would solve in that? 06:52:10 I can give them a bunch of valid programs (or subprograms) then have them generate a bunch more that I can run through my test procedure. 06:54:40 Well, you can try that, but markov chain generators produce sequences, which doesn't sound very useful for that task. 06:55:23 Sequences of expressions make subprograms (functions) and sequences of subsequences make programs? 06:55:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:55:55 So, how does your markov chain generator handle sequences of subsequences? 06:56:09 This is why I'd suggest that you look at subtree grafting instead. 06:57:06 Right; but then I have to figure out how to measure fitness. 06:57:40 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-224-107-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 06:58:00 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-224-107-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:58:50 Well subtree grafting doesn't have to happen in the context of a genetic algorithm. 06:59:48 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.159.77] has joined #lisp 06:59:48 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.159.77] has quit [Changing host] 06:59:48 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 07:01:18 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 07:01:34 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 07:01:44 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 07:01:45 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 07:01:47 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 07:01:49 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 07:01:54 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has joined #lisp 07:04:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:14:01 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 07:14:49 -!- MightyJoe [~joe@189.153.11.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:15:50 -!- jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:18:31 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 07:19:29 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:19:38 djames [~dan@host-2-100-194-11.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:30 jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:26:51 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:28:58 MightyJoe [~joe@189.224.227.74] has joined #lisp 07:31:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.4] has joined #lisp 07:31:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.4] has quit [Changing host] 07:31:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:33:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-231-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:35:54 -!- djames [~dan@host-2-100-194-11.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:36:17 hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 07:37:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:38:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:39:19 -!- MightyJoe [~joe@189.224.227.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:40:33 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-65-111.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:40:34 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:38 antgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-69-26.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 07:43:29 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 07:44:04 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:55 protist [~protist@170.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:46:19 does anyone know of a web framework for Common Lisp that is not object oriented at all? 07:46:37 as in, it never even says "make-instance" 07:48:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:48:11 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.13.4] has joined #lisp 07:48:11 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.13.4] has quit [Changing host] 07:48:11 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:48:28 Yea, sockets 07:49:51 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.148.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:28 heddwch: thanks lol 07:50:45 np :) lol 07:50:50 heddwch: kind of exactly what i wanted...i wanted to actually see how these things work 07:51:14 Oh haha It's actually fairly viable, HTTP's pretty simple to serve 07:51:54 MightyJoe [~joe@189.224.173.64] has joined #lisp 07:52:08 in particular the part that is fully abstracted from me at work with the MVC interface we use...i want to see how it is that separate sessions have their own state 07:52:26 Ah, most likely with a cookie 07:52:51 i've cleared cookies...but hardly know how they are made or the finer details 07:52:53 lol 07:53:29 Ah, that's something I'd have to look up myself, haven't dealt with anything webby in a long time 07:53:45 what do you do now? 07:54:22 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:26 Ah, I've only had one programming-related job once. Mostly I'm a general laborer. 07:54:39 ah 07:55:46 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-xlqoaphtexsrgmee] has joined #lisp 07:58:35 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-eozqdipmpxfsqhrm] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:05:12 heddwch: so it looks like i can spawn separate processes at the server...and i could just hold all the data within closures for the separate processes if i want :) 08:05:47 heddwch: looks cool....i think i want to learn it from the ground up and implement my own tools 08:06:14 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:46 <|3b|> HTTP is stateless, so there is no permanent connection to associate a "session" with. instead, you either set a cookie, which the browser sends back with every request, or you adjust the URLs to add an identifier 08:07:04 <|3b|> in either case, you have a value which you can use to look up a stored session 08:07:24 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mzessheywnzcycfj] has joined #lisp 08:07:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 08:07:33 <|3b|> you can store the data associated with the session how ever you want, in closures, objects, external DB, whatever 08:07:45 |3b|: can't i just spawn separate processes for separate connections (from separate ports/clients)? 08:08:16 <|3b|> browser might make a separate connection for every request, possibly more than 1 at a time if page has more than 1 resource on it 08:08:20 |3b|: explain why it isn't a permanent connection...and how would i go about making on? 08:08:32 <|3b|> because that is how HTTP is specified 08:08:33 one* 08:08:39 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:09:11 hmmm....so can't i tell it how long to wait before giving up or something? 08:09:48 <|3b|> there are some tricks involving not sending a reply immediately, but you still can't rely on being able to send multiple responses, or multiple requests 08:10:16 FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-yjxnznpvmaypqtrx] has joined #lisp 08:10:20 <|3b|> and people might leave pages open for days/weeks anyway, so you don't want to keep a socket open the whole time if no data is being sent 08:10:30 ah 08:10:34 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:37 i guess i need to read about cookies 08:11:11 and i took a cryptography class...could be fun to implement some of that 08:11:13 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 08:11:14 -!- Kruppe is now known as Guest55474 08:11:38 <|3b|> if your class was any good, you should know not to implement your own cryptography :p 08:12:00 i'm a free man :p 08:12:27 <|3b|> well, as long as you are happy with your data being free too :) 08:12:34 haha 08:12:39 you have little faith in me 08:13:49 <|3b|> nah, i've just seen some of the unexpected ways people find to break even well implemented cryptography, and some of the non-obvious ways to fail to implement cryptography well 08:14:34 -!- NaturalNudist is now known as PunnyPony 08:14:41 Indecipherable [~Indy@41.13.158.79] has joined #lisp 08:15:28 what if i have no signup page....and have people give me their username/password in person...then i salt and hash it...diffie hellman after accepting a connection, then SHA? 08:16:09 <|3b|> no idea 08:16:41 and someone would have to first guess what in god's name i might be doing, which may not be easy lol 08:17:02 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:51 *|3b|* suspects your best defense would be if nobody cares what you are doing :p 08:18:03 single tear :'( 08:18:32 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 08:18:36 -!- Indecipherable [~Indy@41.13.158.79] has quit [Client Quit] 08:18:53 <|3b|> well, much better than someone caring enough to come ask you in person with a large wrench :) 08:19:26 -!- Guest55474 [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:19:30 nipra [~nipra@122.177.148.215] has joined #lisp 08:19:36 which is why i salt then hash....so even i have no clue what the usernames and passwords are :D 08:19:41 then they kill me 08:20:01 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:20:09 <|3b|> more seriously though, at least some of the code runs on the client, so they already know some of what you are doing 08:20:53 <|3b|> then there is the question of whether you managed to make accepting and rejecting a password take exact same amount of time 08:21:12 <|3b|> or give same errors and amount of time for all bad inputs 08:21:45 <|3b|> or if they do come with a wrench, they don't need passwords, since there is access to the code that runs after people log in 08:21:58 *|3b|* thinks this is getting off topic though 08:22:22 i think i just need a bigger wrench/gun 08:22:44 <|3b|> so back to "nobody cares" :) 08:22:51 <|3b|> or at least nobody with more resources than you 08:23:05 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:24:27 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:24:46 :'( 08:24:48 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:15 Kruppe- [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 08:31:34 Just log them into a honeypot. :) 08:32:22 Then they have the problem of determining when they've succeeded in logging in to the real machine. 08:42:12 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:43:34 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 08:47:09 p9f [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:03 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:49:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:51:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:51:32 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-224-107-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping 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[~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:53 loke [~elias@2400:d803:7342:f91a:5cbc:6821:2a24:7b68] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:21 kcurtis [~user@1x-193.157.225.3.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:37:45 michael_lee [~michael_l@1.80.4.65] has joined #lisp 13:37:55 -!- Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:16 hi, whenever I run '(require 'sb-bsd-sockets)', I get the following error message: "ASDF could not load sb-bsd-sockets because The value # is not of type INTEGER..". 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New: hunchentoot 1.2.23, flexi-streams 1.0.10, SBCL 1.1.14, cl-who 1.1.3 16:25:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:45 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:28 przl [~przlrkt@p5DD144E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:32 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-xlqoaphtexsrgmee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:43 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:04 crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 16:33:37 axion [~axion@pool-108-4-159-87.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:48 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@116-153.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:34:48 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@116-153.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:12 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:35:51 gmdjm [~manager@ip70-185-115-2.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:44 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:45 -!- gmdjm [~manager@ip70-185-115-2.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38:09 jdz_ [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 16:38:39 gmdjm [~djm@ip70-185-115-2.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:42 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.177.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:40:33 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:40:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:59 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 16:43:10 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:45 heddwch: anything wrong with cl-ppcre 2.0.6 or why did you remove it from the topic? 16:45:40 H4ns: D: It was an accident. I clicked a wrong button in a new client and just hit enter, thinking I wouldn't have priveleges to edit the topic 16:46:03 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: cl-ppcre 2.0.6, hunchentoot 1.2.23, flexi-streams 1.0.10, SBCL 1.1.14 16:46:05 no worries. 16:46:15 Thank you! 16:46:56 UNIXgod [~v0id@funtoo/user/UNIXgod] has joined #lisp 16:48:12 -!- Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48:50 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:54 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:49:24 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:35 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mzessheywnzcycfj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:51:15 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.81.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:52:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:53:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:01:11 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:14 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:14 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:28 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:58 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:17 -!- dkordic [~danilo@93-87-234-50.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05:01 KaiQ [~localhost@88.116.5.210] has joined #lisp 17:05:16 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:44 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:11:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:29 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-6.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:15:25 slyrus: ping? 17:15:44 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:17:49 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-109.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:18:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:37 joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:31 hey rpg 17:20:34 Hey. I was reading over your thoughts on Java + CL. Had a bunch of experience with this, but didn't have time to express them more clearly than chat-quality.... 17:21:01 Bad news: we have mostly fallen back to using ACL (paid) for this purpose, because of their libraries. 17:21:46 Possibly useful information: I believe out of process solutions are preferable to in-process solutions for interacting with Java. 17:21:53 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:22:48 We have interacted with both Java and MONO/.NET. My lesson from this is that trying to jam two VMs into one process space is fraught, and a full lisp environment is close to being a VM. 17:23:21 how is the LLVM Common Lisp going? 17:23:24 E.g., we have found conflicts handling signals (a resource that Unixoids do not share well) b/w lisp and a vm. 17:23:30 fraught usually takes an object 17:23:52 liek fraught with doof 17:24:41 Denommus, you mean in sbcl (i assume)? 17:25:06 nothing to do in clisp maybe 17:25:20 or whatever it's called 17:25:29 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-134-84.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:25:45 Good evening everyone! 17:25:51 yello beach 17:26:15 the llvm CL thing refers to drmeister's compiler 17:27:27 *drmeister* 's ears are burning 17:27:43 sbcl-llvm hasn't been touched since 2010 17:27:52 ah 17:27:59 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:45 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.210] has joined #lisp 17:31:45 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-6.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:55 Lots of new stuff on http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/clos-mop.html and as usual I appreciate fixes, comments, improvements, and additional material. 17:32:56 -!- cemk [~cole@ip70-171-14-23.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:36 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-197.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 Source code on https://github.com/robert-strandh/CLOS-MOP-HTML as before. 17:34:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:26 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:35:34 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@1.80.4.65] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:37:39 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:41:04 antgreen_ [green@nat/redhat/x-xccpueehyxqvcqlj] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 JuanDaugherty: no. It is an implementation that uses ECL as a base, but doesn't use C as a backend, instead it aims at LLVM's bytecode 17:42:02 CrazyEddy [~satiable@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:42:19 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-46-93.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:35 Denommus, via clang? 17:43:06 -!- rk[]_ is now known as rk[wrk] 17:43:20 JuanDaugherty: no 17:43:33 JuanDaugherty: he is changine ECL's backend. It won't compile to C, it will compile directly to LLVM 17:43:37 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:43:40 -!- Ogion__ is now known as Ogion 17:43:49 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 17:43:53 JuanDaugherty: as ECL currently is, you can already compile the C code with clang 17:45:19 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:45:31 ah, good 17:46:11 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:46:13 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 17:46:26 JuanDaugherty: but this is suboptimal, I guess 17:48:40 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:57 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:59 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:58:10 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 17:58:51 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:59:59 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:25 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:34 nilsi_ [~nilsi@5.254.150.62] has joined #lisp 18:03:05 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.220] has joined #lisp 18:04:27 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@88.116.5.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:51 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 18:04:52 -!- segv- [~mb@g225018140.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:20 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 18:07:42 Is there a function to check if a variable is a class instance/clos object ? 18:07:53 TYPE-OF? 18:08:07 type-of returns the class type. I meant generally 18:08:17 as in, I don't know what class it will be an instance of 18:08:48 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 18:08:51 (typep x 'standard-object) 18:09:26 ah, that works 18:09:27 thanks! 18:13:09 segv- [~mb@g225018140.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:19 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-109.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:35 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:19:49 -!- antgreen_ [green@nat/redhat/x-xccpueehyxqvcqlj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:20:46 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-50-181-199-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:12 toastynerd [~toastyner@c-24-18-231-146.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:59 jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-50-181-199-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:08 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-197.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:19 djames 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[~user@ABordeaux-651-1-134-84.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 18:44:48 -!- UNIXgod [~v0id@funtoo/user/UNIXgod] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:45:48 djames [~dan@dab-bhx1-h-1-5.dab.02.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:49 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:49:29 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:52 Kruppe- [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:23 -!- djames [~dan@dab-bhx1-h-1-5.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:41 djames [~dan@dab-far1-h-54-10.dab.02.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:56 djames_ [~dan@dab-bhx1-h-60-6.dab.02.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:18 -!- djames [~dan@dab-far1-h-54-10.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:22 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-221-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:02:51 is there a way of defining a method so it only acts on instances of class that have a given metaclass? 19:09:02 -!- CrazyEddy [~satiable@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:00 -!- karswell [~user@239.54.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:10:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:20 i don't know much on CLOS but is it possible to speicialize it on the metaclass? 19:10:32 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.208] has joined #lisp 19:11:28 i guess i could to an ADD-METHOD on the metaclass' INITIALIZE-INSTANCE 19:11:37 probably 19:12:07 karswell [~user@239.54.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:10 that's what I do 19:13:05 djames [~dan@dab-bhx1-h-88-1.dab.02.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:22 I do a defmethod in finalize-inheritence 19:14:24 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 i'm too scared to touch finalize-inheritance so i guess i'll put an :after finalize-inheritance with a bunch of add-method calls 19:14:39 you could also add an 'empty' class to the class instances direct-superclasses in initialize-instance 19:14:41 -!- djames_ [~dan@dab-bhx1-h-60-6.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:52 and specialize on that 19:15:28 (and I do it in finalize-inheritance :after as well :)) 19:16:42 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:00 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:18:02 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lbajovihpfdwcjqd] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:34 CrazyEddy [~unepistol@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:26:27 -!- djames [~dan@dab-bhx1-h-88-1.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:37 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has 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[~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:48 vantage|home [~vantage@113.Red-88-7-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:15 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vzlliofmehltssuy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:25 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-xdnmwhfzrrtclney] has joined #lisp 19:37:39 ben_m [~ben@chello062178107037.8.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:39:01 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:46 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 -!- vantage|home is now known as elfenixtorres 19:40:44 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 19:47:45 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:48:54 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-5-155.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:20 -!- 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[~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 20:33:53 -!- ben_m [~ben@chello062178107037.8.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: good night friends] 20:36:11 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:21 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lbajovihpfdwcjqd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:39:08 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 20:39:57 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:43:13 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@158-142.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:44:57 how can i get access to a single value from a multiple value returning function, without using m-v-b? 20:45:54 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:59 nth-value 20:46:07 thanks 20:48:40 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kerujwzdmcroxqbr] has joined #lisp 20:51:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:55:52 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:52 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-186.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 20:58:15 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:35 Is there a way to convert an integer of type FIXNUM to the bit equivalent (UNSIGNED-BYTE something) representation? 21:02:54 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:11 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:44 fiveop: (ldb (byte 0) my-fixnum) is one way 21:04:31 (logand my-fixnum #b111...), where ... of ones depends on 21:04:35 truly there are many ways 21:06:03 thank you 21:11:52 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.111.91.216] has joined #lisp 21:12:12 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:13:05 antgreen_ [green@nat/redhat/x-sqkjceqktunpdzvf] has joined #lisp 21:14:35 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:17:16 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:17:38 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 21:20:21 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:20:27 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.117.43] has joined #lisp 21:23:08 Progger [~user@pool-96-239-156-117.hgrtmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:33 hi 21:24:12 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DD144E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:23 -!- Progger [~user@pool-96-239-156-117.hgrtmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:14 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22:36:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:17 francogrex [~user@91.182.140.103] has joined #lisp 22:37:58 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 22:42:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:45:56 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:48:54 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kerujwzdmcroxqbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:49:57 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:54:16 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:56:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:00:20 pdk [~realname@c-71-236-103-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:04 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 23:02:39 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-hnvbdiyjkdxzwtjr] has joined #lisp 23:02:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:04 Can it generally be assumed that in most implementations, a newly created thread does not inherit the condition handlers of the parent thread? That would seem to me to be the case, but it's not a documented specific that I've found 23:07:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:38 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:12:22 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:13:01 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:22 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:13:35 Also, is there any way to specify which window SLDB should appear in? I've got a lot of open buffers, and it prefers opening waaay to the left of my work 23:13:45 erm, under emacs & SLIME 23:15:31 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:47 ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:14 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.42.83] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:23:06 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:25:44 axion [~axion@pool-108-4-159-87.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:17 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.140.103] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:27:31 excuse me but I tried playing around with poudriere-devel and now I want to get rid of it and all the custom built stuff. how do I do that? 23:29:20 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 23:29:33 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 23:31:39 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-186.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:38:37 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.42.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:18 Does anyone here use series? 23:43:47 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 23:45:51 -!- SillyBilly [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:15 CrazyEddy [~bradycard@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 23:46:18 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:46:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:49:44 ubikation: what is poudrierre-devel? 23:49:52 jasom: rahul used it 23:50:04 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:49 Xach: it looks like something that might replace some of my more complicated loops with something a little bit easier to write and maintain; I'm wondering if that's actually true in practice, and if readability suffers 23:52:52 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 23:53:12 jasom: I've never really tried it. I've heard smart people give smart-sounding critiques that I can't remember any more. 23:55:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-232-81.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:55:55 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@d110-33-232-81.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 Xach: oh sorry, wrong channel. 23:57:27 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:15 -!- toastynerd [~toastyner@c-24-18-231-146.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:35 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]