00:00:07 oGMo: know of any that handle embedded fonts in a sane manner? 00:00:24 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@250.Red-88-5-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:59 antoszka: cl-typesetting writes PDFs via CL-PDF. 00:01:19 neoncort` [~neoncorte@177.39.189.243] has joined #lisp 00:01:19 Xach: Yeah, just looked inside both tarballs. 00:01:23 Xach: No postscript there. 00:01:26 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:01:30 jasom: i'm not sure of _anything_ that does that heh 00:01:31 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:50 enn_ [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:55 samebcha1e [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:59 sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has joined #lisp 00:02:03 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:02:36 gigetoo_ [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:02:40 oGMo: I remember I wanted to convert a PDF to PS and finally found something that would do it without rasterization. Each page was hundreds of megs (it converted all the text in embedded fonts to curve/fill commands) 00:02:42 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:02:47 ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:51 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:51 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:51 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:51 -!- pdk [~realname@c-71-236-103-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:51 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-114-106.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:53 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:53 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:53 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- sfa_ [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:55 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:03:10 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:12 [F_F] [~IronPytho@189.186.53.182] has joined #lisp 00:03:12 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@189.186.53.182] has quit [Changing host] 00:03:12 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 00:03:13 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:03:22 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:24 jasom: that sounds broken .. even if you convert all fonts to curves, it shouldn't be that big, unless your fonts are insanely complex 00:03:34 pdk [~realname@c-71-236-103-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:44 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:53 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 00:03:56 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 00:04:05 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 00:04:10 oGMo: well it worked well enough for me, so I stopped digging. 00:04:15 aj 00:04:18 "ah" 00:06:15 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.116.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:06:53 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 00:07:48 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest49156 00:08:09 Poenikatu: I would recommend Lisp in Small Pieces as well if you can get hold of it 00:08:42 It's rather easy to get hold of. Just bloody expensive. 00:08:47 Usually around 90 USD + shipping. 00:08:50 antoszka: yep 00:08:51 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:19 It's well worth it in my opinion; if you can spare the cash 00:09:45 I will, one day. 00:10:55 I have been using CL for quite a while and only just started LiSP; it's given me better insight into decisions behind CL and other Lisps 00:11:42 It's probably also one of the most easily read technical books i have come across 00:13:49 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 00:14:07 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:52 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 00:15:01 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:15:26 -!- Guest49156 [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:16:47 Guthur``: I paid about 80 dollars for LISP on amazon 00:16:57 plus 20 for shipping it 00:17:58 I ordered recently for $104AUD 00:18:14 ...free postafe 00:18:18 postage 00:18:45 i think i got it from http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/ 00:19:27 it's there for around 56GBP 00:19:39 nisstyre: i really want that book 00:21:13 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:21:19 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.107.68] has joined #lisp 00:21:49 $52 for kindle version of LiSP apparently 00:22:06 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 00:22:39 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@50-197-184-177-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 00:23:53 which is considerably cheaper than the $90 e-book version from the publisher 00:24:36 i hesitate to get that because the formatting for stuff can really suck 00:25:14 i think the main reason i haven't is because i would be tempted to read it and apply it, and that's a rabbit hole right there 00:25:40 oGMo: I also got Compiling with Continuations 00:25:47 nisstyre: nice 00:26:26 sadly the good books get pricey .. i ordered a few compiler books and similar before and they add up quick 00:27:05 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 00:27:14 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:53 oGMo: I think some of the ideas outlined in the book are applicable even with you are not implementing a Lisp interpreter or compiler 00:28:39 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 00:29:02 Guthur``: yeah.. but .. ;) 00:31:41 ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:42 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:32:28 hello everyone! I recently tried to install inferior-lisp via quicklisp and I got this error: "Component :ASDF does not match version 3.0.3, required by 00:32:29 # 00:32:29 [Condition of type ASDF/FIND-COMPONENT:MISSING-DEPENDENCY-OF-VERSION]" 00:32:53 -!- Guthur`` is now known as Guthur 00:34:51 ubikation: what does (asdf:asdf-version) return? 00:35:31 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 00:35:41 2.32! can I update it through quicklisp? 00:36:00 I'm currently using ccl 1.9 I got from the main site 00:37:29 I think you might have to install it manually 00:37:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.243.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:37:56 according to asdf website ccl should have asdf 3 00:38:04 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/#implementations 00:38:14 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:32 I put the new asdf.lisp I downloaded into the place of the old one under ~/quicklisp/asdf.lisp 00:39:45 but upon restarting ccl still seems to use the old version 00:40:13 xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has joined #lisp 00:40:21 -!- xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:04 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:41:33 xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has joined #lisp 00:42:16 -!- xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has left #lisp 00:43:50 ubikation: Welcome to Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.9-r15769M (LinuxX8664)! 00:44:08 (asdf:asdf-version) => "3.0.2.4" 00:44:39 hehe, it looks like that would still not be recent enough for inferior-shell 00:44:52 the hazards of tracking the bleeding edge 00:45:42 ubikation: for running a nwer version, you can put the whole asdf system (not the asdf.lisp) somewhere that asdf can find it and then (asdf:load-system :asdf) in your .ccl-init.lisp 00:46:21 pillton [~user@124-171-224-229.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:47:57 ubikation: that's actually what I do. I had to do a ccl -n to show the 3.0.2.4 00:48:08 3.1.0.37 is what I get with my init file 00:48:49 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZZ] 00:51:16 jasom: where is somewhere asdf can find asdf? 00:51:25 can I put it under quicklisp? 00:52:45 ubikation: read the asdf docs about the "source registry" 00:53:10 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:22 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:40 ubikation: I have it setup so that ~/src/lisp/* gets added to the search path, for example 00:54:51 afk 00:56:35 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 00:57:36 jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:59:57 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.102.128] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:12 harish [~harish@175.156.102.128] has joined #lisp 01:00:58 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 01:01:00 I have (:tree (:home "src/lisp/")) in my ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/projects.conf and I put the new asdf.lisp there. Even after I added (require "asdf") 01:01:00 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :asdf) to my .ccl-init.lisp it's not installing itself. 01:01:22 I'm assuming I want it to automagically do it on load time, that it's not just a one time install or something? 01:01:30 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:51 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:02 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.194] has joined #lisp 01:02:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:04 ubikation: what is asdf:*central-registry* bound to? 01:06:13 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-162-201.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 01:06:13 -!- Poenikatu [~user@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:06:49 you could put the new asdf.lisp there then try (asdf:load-system :asdf) 01:06:59 -!- ThePhoer1n is now known as ThePhoeron 01:08:15 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:08:18 bear in mind that quicklisp probably binds asdf:*central-registry* to it's current value so if you want to load during ccl init then make sure to do it after quicklisp 01:08:28 (asdf:*central-registry*) 01:08:38 no, it's a variable 01:09:09 err how do I print out the current value of it? 01:09:11 *foo* is the defacto standard naming for a variable 01:10:14 ubikation: just asdf:*central-registry* 01:10:18 asdf:*central-registry* 01:11:05 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:12 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.102.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:52 ubikation: I would consider working through Practical Common Lisp if you have not already http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 01:12:25 -!- Fade [~fade@206-248-186-178.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:12:58 you could safe yourself a lot confusion by picking up some CL insight from that free good book, it's available for free in HTML format 01:14:00 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 01:14:57 Guthur: thanks! I'll have to take a look at it! 01:15:09 also the value of asdf:*central-registry* is (#P"/home/ubikation/src/lisp/" #P"/home/ubikation/quicklisp/quicklisp/") 01:15:27 brandonz [~brandon@172.56.30.50] has joined #lisp 01:15:32 and I have asdf.lisp in both of those... and even when I perform (asdf:load-system :asdf) I get the saem thing 01:15:34 same* 01:15:47 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:56 -!- jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19:09 jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:22 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-125-56.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:33 what exactly did you put in those folders, can you check that files are actually the newer version of asdf.lisp 01:21:00 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:24:15 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:26:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@172.56.30.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:28:26 here is a summary of what I've done: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/8293246 01:28:54 it seems I can get it to work with (load (compile-file "/home/ubikation/src/lisp/asdf.lisp")) but that's a per session thing 01:29:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-233-232.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:30:39 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-204-47.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:38 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:33 akbiggs [~akbiggs@24-212-189-181.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:44 so it seems like I'm close? 01:39:06 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 01:40:19 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:42:42 harish [~harish@119.234.143.138] has joined #lisp 01:45:20 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.143.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:57 harish [~harish@119.234.143.138] has joined #lisp 01:51:01 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-162-201.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:52:27 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-162-201.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 01:52:32 ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.204] has joined #lisp 01:54:39 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:44 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.205.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:56:27 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@f052153175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:57:04 -!- axion [~axion@static-71-245-156-232.alb.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:29 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.143.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:00:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:01:47 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.207] has joined #lisp 02:01:54 jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:24 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-6.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:05 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:26 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:15:12 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:17:42 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.195.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:28 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 02:19:35 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:19:42 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:30 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 02:22:09 ikki [~ikki@177.224.107.68] has joined #lisp 02:25:38 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:51 -!- dnm [~user@67-131-0-251.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29:29 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-kkzembdgypblxcvu] has joined #lisp 02:34:38 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.107.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:15 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:17 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:53 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:42:21 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 02:43:11 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Quit: rpg_] 02:46:01 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 02:46:33 ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.106] has joined #lisp 02:51:31 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6566a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:52:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.191.6.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:24 hostsamurai [~kuroi_ken@99-100-173-147.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f64bcf.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:56:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has quit [Quit: flight] 03:01:06 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:01:26 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 03:02:05 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 03:02:09 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 03:02:20 possible to implement map with simple basic lisp code? 03:02:25 perhaps using recursion somehow? 03:02:40 yes 03:02:54 try M-. map, see what your implementation does 03:04:27 i assume that is emacs? 03:05:02 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-162-201.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:05:02 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:05:07 ikki [~ikki@177.224.107.68] has joined #lisp 03:05:28 slime, yes 03:06:03 oh noes..i don't have slime set up 03:06:54 map is sort of complicated ...maybe it needs to be a primitive 03:07:07 nah 03:07:33 map is pretty trivial. 03:07:44 map is trivally implemented using LOOP 03:08:09 Start by implementing a map-list and a map-vector separately. 03:08:20 Then have map dispatch to the apropriate function based on the type it receives. 03:08:57 oops..i should elaborate..i'm writing a minimal lisp...so i don't have much to work with 03:08:57 The rest is just a matter of walking down N sequences in parallel, collecting the values, applying a function, and putting the result into the output sequence. 03:09:13 Paul Graham makes a big deal of how you can do everything with a handful of primitives 03:09:52 Well, work out if a minimal implementation or minimal code size is what you care about. 03:09:54 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@177.224.107.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:06 minimal implementation 03:10:22 Then you can implement it as I described above, fairly easily. 03:10:23 in my limited knowledge...i do know you can simulate a for loop with tail recursion 03:10:23 these: start by implementing TAGBODY 03:10:40 You just need to be able to iterate sequences, build lists, call apply. 03:10:42 theseb: you can, but you can't rely on tail recursion 03:10:52 so recursion gives you iteration...somehow you then need to iterate over every elem 03:10:54 oh boy, minimality 03:11:02 In general, TAGBODY is the basic building blocks of all looping and iteration constructs 03:11:19 loke: huh? i thought recursion was the basic building block 03:11:23 theseb: no 03:11:25 maybe i should write a lisp implementation using pretty-printing and call that minimal 03:11:33 loke: that's kinda what SICP and the Scheme guys say i think 03:11:43 I think that if you consider recursion in terms of back-tracking, it makes more sense. 03:11:55 It which case, tail-calls aren't recursive. 03:11:59 theseb: Yes, but they are using an academic version of Lisp called Scheme 03:12:18 In a minimal lisp, I'd also suggest having a simple while loop primitive, unless you want to implement tagbody. 03:12:24 loke: my "lisp" is so minimal i guess it is "academic" then 03:12:47 loke: i'm a mathematician...half the fun is seeing how much i can get out of how little 03:13:05 -!- JorDunn [~JorDunn@c-24-131-164-73.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:14 theseb: then you probably want to be on #scheme and not #lisp :-) 03:13:28 Otherwise, I'd recommend implementing an explicit tail-call operator. 03:13:32 Common Lisp is about geing pragmatic. 03:13:33 could go one step further with plain ol lambda calc 03:13:38 e.g., (tail foo 1 2 3). 03:13:44 in 50 years of lisp's existence i'm sure some academic has tried seeing the minimal primitives to implement everything 03:14:08 theseb: Yes. You might want to read the original McCarthy paper 03:14:25 pdk: i implemented a lamda calc already :)...that was too impractical...this is an epsilon more practical 03:14:30 theseb: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.91.4527&rep=rep1&type=pdf 03:14:44 SKI calc! 03:15:23 Oh yes. Everybody should at least learn Unlambda, even though it's probably the least practically useful language out there. But for learning about SKI, it's amazing 03:15:42 http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ 03:15:59 loke: was McCarthy's motivation in 1950s to make something a little more practical than lambda calc but still minimalistic? 03:16:12 theseb: no 03:16:17 loke: i always wondered why he didn't just use lambda calc then 03:16:36 theseb: His focus was symbolc computing. Lambda calculus wasn't part of the original Lisp. 03:17:20 loke: yes but lambda calc is about symbolic manipulation too 03:18:06 theseb: right, but it doesn't really come into its own until you have lexical closures, which the original Lisp did not 03:18:48 loke: but that just makes my point...why not just add a few features to lambda calculus instead of making a new language called lisp? 03:19:23 theseb: Because when Lisp was created only one programming language really existed, FORTRAN 03:19:32 Late 50's, remember? 03:19:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-204-47.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 03:20:20 Also, machines back then were tiny little things. 03:20:42 Right. The 704 has 32 kwords of RAM, methinks. 03:20:44 Which is why lisps are really pretty low-level languages -- all about cells. 03:22:02 i googled for "differences between lisp and lambda calculus" 03:22:06 time to get to the bottom of this 03:22:13 http://kazimirmajorinc.blogspot.com/2011/01/some-differences-between-lambda.html 03:23:11 nycat [32003905@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.0.57.5] has joined #lisp 03:23:35 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:59 theseb: I think what you are really looking for is Haskell 03:26:22 loke: whoa...i don't know anything about Haskell but what does it have that our beloved lisp doesn't have? :) 03:27:39 theseb: It's alanguage that is build from the ground up based on lambda calculus 03:28:00 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Category:Theoretical_foundations 03:28:00 -!- motionman is now known as PinkiePie 03:28:07 loke_: REALLY? HOLY MOLY! 03:28:14 PinkiePie: I prefer Fludder Sky 03:28:14 *theseb* makes a note to look at Haskell 03:28:16 Shy 03:28:30 -!- PinkiePie is now known as Guest80769 03:28:34 -!- Guest80769 is now known as FludderSky 03:28:48 XD 03:28:54 https://www.google.com/search?q=pinkie+pie+and+fluttershy&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bXTLUvK2OMeLrQfa4oGoDw&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1005&bih=969 03:29:06 -!- FludderSky is now known as FludderShy 03:29:29 I have two daughters. Ask me anything about My Little Pony. 03:29:56 hahaha, brony too? 03:30:12 Is it another stupid kids show? 03:30:27 OMG XD 03:30:31 Zagaba: yes, but some people would argue it' _the_ stupid kids show 03:30:32 it's my little pony! 03:30:32 :-) 03:30:53 friendship is magic yo 03:31:36 Of the silly kid's cartoons, my little pony is not the worst, and I'd rather have them watch that than the Barbie shows for example 03:31:48 I've seen some Dora.. And those.. 03:31:51 Or even (shudder) Bratz 03:32:02 dora is ok 03:32:13 loke_: teach your daughters Haskell and Lisp when they are young....they'll be supernatural when they are older 03:32:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnpTcrtsN3U 03:32:20 barbie is dumbing down girls 03:32:29 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 03:32:41 I don't know in english, but the french version is dumb as hell. 03:33:28 Zagaba: dora or barbie? 03:33:46 swiper no swipe! 03:33:54 i watched it with my little cousin last time 03:33:59 [22:29] I have two daughters. Ask me anything about My Little Pony. 03:34:06 there are some parents of 30 year old sons these days who can say the same 03:34:07 FludderShy: dora 03:34:08 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 03:34:51 yo gabba gabba is dumb 03:35:09 pdk: I'm sure there is. My kids love watching a My Little Pony review show on youtube where they review the various toys. It's hosted by a man and a woman and they are both equally enthustiastic about my little pony :-) 03:35:22 the guy would definitely qualify as a brony :-) 03:35:51 XD 03:35:53 I think the worst I've seen is the Teletubies. 03:36:06 but i find them cute hahaha 03:36:09 Zagaba: Teletubbies is for very young kids 03:36:21 I know, I used to watch it, when I was the age. 03:36:51 *jsambrook* is tempted to try out the new Aquamacs 3.0preview4 release 03:37:13 Zagaba: wow. you're young :-) 03:37:25 I was in by 20's when teletubbies was created 03:37:26 loke_: turning 20 this summer. 03:39:08 young 03:39:28 Hehe 03:39:30 [F_F] [~IronPytho@187.149.46.34] has joined #lisp 03:39:30 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@187.149.46.34] has quit [Changing host] 03:39:30 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 03:40:03 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:41:02 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 03:46:17 dnm [~user@184-77-202-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:27 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:43 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-114-106.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:40 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 03:58:37 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 04:00:26 patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:30 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:33 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02:11 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:02:41 nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has joined #lisp 04:07:27 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:09:28 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:10:44 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 04:13:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-125-56.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:14:38 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:17:02 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:23:11 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 04:24:12 I used quicklisp to load a system that I git cloned, into slime. I made some changes now I want to recompile and load it with those changes, I tried (asdf:compile-system "") and (asdf:load-system ""). 04:24:53 Both just return 't'. 04:26:02 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:50 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op sys :force t) 04:26:51 Okay. 04:32:45 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:52 dnm_ [~user@184-77-202-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:48 -!- dnm [~user@184-77-202-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:38:36 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 04:39:50 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:44:38 -!- TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:46:29 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:48:05 When programming with FFI using alloc and free to allocate C structs - how do you manage memory? Is there a way to set up reference counting or manage the lifetime of the C-structs using lisps GC? 04:48:31 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:31 Or does it just devolve to "manage the memory yourself" with the help of a few macros like with-foreign-object 04:49:32 drmeister: one strategy is to use with macros 04:49:41 ...and an unwind-protext 04:49:49 unwind-protect* 04:50:10 there is also trivial-finalizers 04:50:19 What are trivial-finalizers? 04:51:01 they could allow you to have the lisp image free the memory when the objects are garbage collected 04:51:23 personally i prefer the with macros, but it's not always possible to have them 04:51:45 How do you specify that the lisp GC should manage the lifetime of the objects? 04:51:50 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 04:51:53 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 04:53:34 *drmeister* is reading the docs for cffi - http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/cffi-manual.html#Tutorial_002dMemory 04:55:17 drmeister: finalizers and fine control of GC are moving into highly implementation dependent territory 04:56:08 with macros are certainly the most portable and easy to reason about 04:56:49 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 04:57:00 *drmeister* tries to appreciate the humor in spending two years implementing his own Common Lisp system/compiler just to come full circle and have to manually manage memory again. 04:57:25 drmeister: are you using your own implementation for this? 04:57:39 Yes. 04:58:17 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:19 I'm exposing the clang C++ refactoring library and dealing with the impedance memory-mismatch of C++ and CL 04:58:36 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 04:59:39 I use trivial-garbage 04:59:43 hehe, I feel like there's not going to be anything I can add that you should not already know 05:00:09 drmeister: how compliant with the standard is your system? (i.e., can people use it?) 05:00:23 Here's an example of how I do it: 05:00:23 https://github.com/lokedhs/cl-gss/blob/master/src/cl-gss.lisp#L50 05:00:44 Guther: I wouldn't say that - you made me aware of finalizers - I appreciate that. 05:03:38 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:49 drmeister: i think your implementation will have to support them 05:03:54 you wont just get it for free 05:04:23 loke_: Am I reading that correctly - how does trivial-garbage:finalize know when obj is garbage collected? I thought things died quietly in Lisp. 05:04:57 drmeister: All lisps provide a mechanism to have a callback when thathappens 05:05:07 drmeister: trivial-gargabe just standardises the API 05:05:08 p_nathan: I've got all of the ECL Common Lisp source code compiling - (50 source files, LOOP/FORMAT/CLOS etc). 05:05:27 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05:34 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:22 Hmm, the Ravenbrook GC that I'll be using has finalizers - so I should be able to hook that in. Thanks for the heads-up. 05:07:26 -!- zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:07:33 drmeister: It's useful when the foreign objects doesn't have a defined lexical scope, so WITH- macros can't be used. 05:08:33 No objects have lexical scope :) 05:08:42 But variables that refer to them may. 05:08:48 Zhivago: you know what I mean :-) 05:09:26 Maybe, but what you mean is probably wrong -- you can use with- macros with foreign objects -- the usual caveatss apply to escape. 05:10:19 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 05:10:34 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:43 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.207] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:10:50 I understand - yesterday I had all my C++-objects managed by the GC - that caused me all sorts of problems when C++ functions took ownership of them. I switched to not managing the allocated C++ struct/classes at all - that caused me to start thinking about garbage collection again. Round and round and round we go. 05:11:53 Zhivago: exactly 05:12:46 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:20 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:13 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 05:14:30 You just need to track reachability from C++ to the wrapper. 05:14:47 If there is no reachability, then a finalizer can invoke the destructor. 05:16:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:16:41 prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has joined #lisp 05:17:45 Zhivago: I'll have to think on that. I automatically create reachability mapping functions for every C++ class that is part of my Common Lisp system (call them native classes). What I'm dealing with here is one level out - the equivalent of foreign C++ classes. 05:17:57 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:18:42 Sure, but you know if you've passed it to a foreign function or not. 05:18:54 And in C++ you have some kind of reference counting pointer support. 05:19:07 So those can be used to track C++ reachability. 05:19:59 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:29 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 05:27:22 hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 05:27:28 ubikatio` [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:49 ehaliewi` [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:58 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 Shozan [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 05:28:45 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 05:28:45 -!- 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[*.net *.split] 05:52:20 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:26 cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:55:51 From the REPL, I tend to use the comma-operator to drop to the minibuffer, where I type "force-load" to recompile whatever system I'm working on. 05:56:15 Unless I'm missing something, the fasls load automatically after they compiled. 05:57:46 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 runningskull [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 karswell` [~user@13.194.189.80.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-114-106.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 ikki [~ikki@177.224.107.68] has joined #lisp 05:58:33 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 05:59:35 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 06:00:04 What does "oos" in "(asdf:oos ...)" stand for ? 06:00:04 zRecursive, memo from slyrus: try emailing the hunchentoot-cgi author again. it should still work. 06:00:12 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:32 zRecursive: operate on system 06:01:00 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 06:02:07 jsambrook: thx 06:02:40 Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.51] has joined #lisp 06:03:43 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-152-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:07:36 fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:17 -!- ramus_ is now known as ramus 06:12:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:14:14 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 06:15:49 hey zRecursive, what seems to be the trouble with hunchentoot-cgi? 06:15:53 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:19:16 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:19:46 slyrus: IIRC, it cannot run my python script, etc. 06:24:18 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:26:20 hrm... if you file an issue here https://github.com/slyrus/hunchentoot-cgi I'll take a look at it 06:26:42 nilsi__ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has joined #lisp 06:29:28 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:50 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@46.246.22.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:42 slyrus: i donot use it now. it is one more years ago. 06:40:32 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:41:40 then I'll assume the problem has been fixed :) 06:42:41 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:59 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 06:45:47 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 06:46:16 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-juydmuhpyvdjqyrq] has joined #lisp 06:46:17 it is said that teaching introductory CS courses in university using the functional programming paradigm (typically with Scheme) is said to even out the playing field in the beginning (because a lot whiz kids have never did any functional programming). Do you think this is true? I thought Scheme was a piece of cake. 06:47:33 Scheme being a piece of cake doesn't make C++ easier for novices. 06:49:51 Which I think is the point. 06:50:08 Someone who has been doing C++ for 3 years will have a big advantage over someone just starting out. 06:50:36 Although you should note that scheme is a procedural language. 06:53:50 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:29 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:55:28 nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has joined #lisp 06:56:30 Is the teaching language,scheme, a reduced CL ? 06:56:48 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 06:57:00 no. historically scheme was an influence in the design of CL but they differ in some fundamental places 06:57:02 fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:32 hualet_deepin [~user@59.173.241.82] has joined #lisp 06:58:34 Scheme is a reasonably cleanly designed language. CL is the result of smashing together a large number of lisp dialects with a hammer. 06:59:24 So CL has a lot more stuff in it, out of the box, but that stuff doesn't necessarily fit together so cleanly. 06:59:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 06:59:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 06:59:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:01:04 but it seems CL is much practical as there are few projects using Scheme ? 07:01:19 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:01:28 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:34 well, you're hardly likely to get an unbiased opinion here :) 07:02:01 There are lots of projects using scheme, but they're often limited to one scheme dialect due to language extensions. 07:02:09 -!- hualet_deepin [~user@59.173.241.82] has left #lisp 07:02:11 scheme is a much smaller language standard so projects would use one implementation that has a fair number of practically useful language extensions 07:02:19 take a look at racket for example 07:03:14 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@24-212-189-181.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:03:50 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:05:27 racket seems not only to be a scheme dialect now. 07:08:57 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:09:09 in what way? 07:09:35 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:13:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:13:28 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:13:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:13:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:17:27 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:24:35 jtza8 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quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:19 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:41 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:23 jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has joined #lisp 15:57:26 hello 15:57:30 Good morning 15:58:29 hi Zag... it's already afternoon in Africa :) 15:58:47 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:12 I'm just hanging around because I'm trying for the first time to compile gcl and maxima on a distant host. 15:59:13 I don't know, it's the morning somewhere. And still is here. 15:59:17 It's always morning on #lisp. Or do I mean #dylan? 15:59:34 zygentoma [~kvirc@s213-103-195-100.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:02:37 splittist_ lisp is my softsun so it might always be noon... 16:04:23 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:41 -!- nycat [32003905@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.0.57.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:09:45 -!- jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:15 jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has joined #lisp 16:11:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:56 is gcl-tk needed to compil gcl? 16:14:56 crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 16:16:25 apparently not (+ 2 7); 9 :) happy me 16:16:28 now maxima 16:16:55 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:16:56 -!- jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:16 jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has joined #lisp 16:17:40 :) 16:20:13 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 16:21:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:21:34 -!- jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:31 jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has joined #lisp 16:24:03 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 16:24:20 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Changing host] 16:24:20 killmaster [~killmaste@unaffiliated/killmaster/x-109233] has joined #lisp 16:24:36 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:24:56 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:27 -!- jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:32 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 16:26:53 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:09 jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has joined #lisp 16:27:43 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-qwahqcopoxnpdkpx] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 16:27:55 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:32 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:29:15 Ok, Let me do gcl compilation again with --enable-ainsi :( 16:31:57 jil: For what it's worth, gcl is not commonly used here. I think people here mostly use general-purpose Common Lisps, where gcl is most commonly used by maxima users. 16:32:14 almost exclusively maxima users, i would guess 16:32:55 ok :) 16:33:16 no problem, but why is it also called common lisp??? 16:33:17 :) 16:33:57 TDog [~chatzilla@75-164-5-82.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:14 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_ab.htm has some info about that. 16:35:49 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 16:36:32 Hmm, I suppose it doesn't. 16:36:42 I don't know of a good explanation offhand. 16:41:33 is it not because everyone agreed to make a "Common" lisp, instead of the vendor specific ones that existed before? 16:41:50 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:23 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 16:43:42 hahaha 16:43:46 enable-ainsi 16:44:37 foom: There's some interesting story written down somewhere about how that was the least-disliked option, or how it stuck despite itself, or something. I don't know where that story is online, though. 16:46:00 maybe it turned into a picture of John McCarthy 16:46:42 gcl never achieved full ANSI conformance, right? 16:46:59 and isn't maintained any more? 16:47:22 No and no. 16:47:32 It's maintained. A few releases came out in the past few months. 16:48:01 I don't know much about it, but I don't think ANSI parity with other CLs is a driving force of development. 16:48:56 I was probably fooled by the lack of releases between 2005 and 2013 16:50:19 PossumLisp 16:50:57 well I have no luck.. maxima still complain about the same error.. 16:51:59 how can I check my local? I mean if it's AINSI or C? 16:53:47 I don't get it. I did remove all lib bin share doc related with gcl then recomplied with the famous --enable-ainsi flag.. but still maxima configure script complain. 16:53:51 Any idea? 16:53:58 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:29 what about -enable-ansi instead of --enable-ainsi? 16:55:16 yeah I was carrefull about that one ;) 16:55:40 here's my config line ./configure --prefix=$HOME --enable-ainsi 16:57:25 I get errors related to tdk but I try an addition with gcl and yes it works! 16:58:35 -!- alessio [~alessio@151.16.39.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:13 Splenetic [~Splenetic@78.154.134.105] has joined #lisp 17:02:09 jil: check out #maxima 17:02:10 what about -enable-ansi instead of --enable-ainsi? 17:02:12 here's my config line ./configure --prefix=$HOME --enable-ainsi 17:02:33 I would double-check your spelling as you are consistently misspelling ANSI as AINSI 17:04:13 hum... ok Isee 17:04:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:52 no wait --enable-ainsi is correct right? 17:05:33 I'll admit that I've never built gcl, but if you're talking about locales then I'm pretty sure you mean ANSI 17:05:57 I see the correct flag is --enable-ansi 17:06:13 two dash one i 17:06:20 I love this flag :) 17:07:09 thx joshe 17:07:19 & ogamita 17:07:54 Ogion_ [~Ogion@107.Red-83-57-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:38 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:44 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yncspqfnqvahhcso] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:48 -!- Ogion [~Ogion@11.Red-81-39-21.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:53 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:30 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 17:13:46 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:14:08 axion [~axion@static-71-245-156-232.alb.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:14 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:50 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:42 joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:56 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 17:18:23 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:48 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 17:18:51 maxima is building :) 17:19:18 Ogion__ [~Ogion@6.Red-81-34-51.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:21 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.39] has joined #lisp 17:19:35 -!- Ogion_ [~Ogion@107.Red-83-57-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:50 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 17:21:41 slime debugger only shows me function arguments in my stack trace; how do I view other local variables (or what would prevent the debugger from showing me these other variables)? 17:23:16 abunchofdollarsi: "t" on a frame will show what it can show 17:23:27 abunchofdollarsi: debug level controls what's visible, and it varies by implementation. 17:23:30 Right; and it shows me only the function arguments. 17:23:43 i use sbcl, and when i want to see more locals, i use C-u C-c C-c to compile a function. That compiles with debug 3. 17:23:52 I have debug at 3 and it shows the other stuff in vanilla sbcl debugger. 17:23:53 I see. 17:25:49 yati [~yati@223.239.200.202] has joined #lisp 17:27:08 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:28:00 ttm [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:04 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:09 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:28:24 [F_F] [~IronPytho@189.186.202.32] has joined #lisp 17:28:24 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@189.186.202.32] has quit [Changing host] 17:28:24 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 17:30:39 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 17:31:06 -!- jil [~jil@41.66.32.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:19 nipra [~nipra@122.177.223.76] has joined #lisp 17:33:23 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:21 -!- 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[~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:18 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 18:17:34 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-177-191.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:25 mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:27 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:50 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:24 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 18:23:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-197-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:29 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-171-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:15 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 18:24:20 -!- bicgena_ is now known as bicgena 18:24:49 I know it is cool that you can code up eval in lisp....BUT...is there any ever practical use for using eval in a program? 18:25:13 yes 18:25:20 oh? 18:25:28 but evals are happening all the time on expressions already 18:26:12 let's say, open a configuration file, and evaluate it. 18:26:45 instead of using a special config language, you can just write it in lisp 18:27:44 theseb: REPL = read eval print loop 18:28:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:30:02 nipra [~nipra@122.177.163.14] has joined #lisp 18:30:39 hlavaty`: yes REPL's run programs...but INSIDE those programs I'm wondering if we need additional evals inside the stuff running in REPLs 18:32:37 theseb: eval sometimes is useful, but most of the time when someone thinks that eval is the right thing to use, it is not. 18:32:47 Usually you can get away with lesser machinery. 18:33:03 theseb: so in general, until you've learned more lisp, you can consider eval to be not useful for the programs that you write. 18:34:43 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.163.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:21 gendl [~dcooper8@65.91.110.226] has joined #lisp 18:42:28 areckx [6ce69dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.230.157.212] has joined #lisp 18:43:09 I am getting the error ` *** - EVAL: undefined function DEFINE` using clisp when trying to use `` (DEFINE A (* 5 5)) `` 18:43:30 DEFINE isn't common lisp 18:43:39 try using a scheme compiler 18:43:51 theseb: I wrote an implementation of a language by parsing it into an sexpr that I could then eval 18:43:54 (#scheme will tell you some good ones) 18:44:09 dlowe: I was thinking I needed to use scheme, because I'm following the MIT course https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE18841CABEA24090 18:44:18 areckx: you were correct. 18:45:22 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-eozqdipmpxfsqhrm] has joined #lisp 18:46:09 You probably want to use MIT scheme, I'm pretty sure that course uses non-portable constructs only available in MIT scheme, starting about halfway through the course. But #scheme would know better. 18:46:39 hehe. It's now MIT/GNU scheme 18:46:49 MIT/GNU Scheme/GNU 18:47:01 I _think_ Racket has a SICP language. 18:47:26 http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 18:47:33 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:47:33 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:47:34 -!- nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:29 sellout-: yes I was recommended in #scheme, thanks for the help everone 18:50:20 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:48 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:52:28 theseb: there are a lot of occasions where you want to evaluate an expression, only with some differences. 18:52:32 I found this really amusing and enjoyable: https://github.com/google/lisp-koans 18:53:02 -!- areckx [6ce69dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.230.157.212] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:53:56 theseb: for example, to debug you may want to trace each sub expression evaluated. With cl-stepper, you can do it. https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/common-lisp/lisp/ (cl-stepper is implemented as a translator rather than an eval, but it's the same principle). 18:55:12 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:59:44 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:13 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:49 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:01:18 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:18 -!- ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:18 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:19 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:19 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:19 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:20 -!- dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:54 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:17 -!- dnm [~user@184-77-202-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:04:08 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 19:04:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 19:04:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:05:37 ConstantineXVI [~sxltrs@li454-243.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:17 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 19:06:17 dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has joined #lisp 19:06:17 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 19:06:17 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 19:06:17 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:31 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:36 EdmondDantes [joejaxx@fluxbuntu/founder/joejaxx] has joined #lisp 19:06:40 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:41 -!- EdmondDantes [joejaxx@fluxbuntu/founder/joejaxx] has left #lisp 19:06:49 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:06:49 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:07:30 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:07:34 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest95439 19:07:38 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:08:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:08:31 Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has joined #lisp 19:15:33 Xach: s/ASDF-Install/Quicklisp here " 19:15:38 The easiest way to install Vecto and all its dependencies is with ASDF-Install." 19:15:53 -!- samebcha1e is now known as samebchase 19:16:40 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:25:35 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:59 I tried to use asdf-install 3 times. It worked once 19:30:42 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-69-34-60.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:32:38 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:33:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-23-231.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:23 <_death> Xach: please update quicklisp location for FSet.. its most updated location is https://github.com/slburson/fset 19:33:55 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:20 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:33 <_death> (and its slburson dependencies as well) 19:36:40 dnm [~user@67-131-0-251.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:18 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:31 <_death> or well, just fset itself for now.. since misc-extensions on github looks screwed :x 19:37:53 Ogion [~Ogion@203.Red-83-57-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:07 -!- bjorkbsd [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:41:13 would you please make a github issue? i really want to update it but i lose track without issues 19:41:26 samebchase: you too? 19:41:31 i will have time later today to take care of it 19:41:50 Xach: okay 19:43:58 <_death> Xach: for which repo? 19:44:36 Is there a more elegant way to do the following: http://paste.lisp.org/display/140813 19:44:47 _death: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects 19:45:03 <_death> Xach: ah ok.. was looking at user xach 19:45:17 thanks 19:46:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:48 Xach: is a trivial pull request okay? 19:47:48 fractastical [~jdietz@c-98-210-178-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:26 Johannes` [~user@cm-84.209.90.205.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:52:25 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:55:32 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:04 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-31-41.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:24 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:01:46 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 20:02:00 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:13 samebchase: sure 20:03:41 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exit IRC/Hiberate] 20:03:57 thanks 20:07:59 Xach: so, what are the constraints of quicklisp-bootstrap wrt circularity or not at the system level? 20:08:39 I don't know. What does that mean? 20:10:01 There's a recent feature in asdf with better reporting of circular dependencies. 20:10:10 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:10:38 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-31-41.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:12:58 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:21 francogrex [~user@91.182.140.103] has joined #lisp 20:15:23 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 -!- Johannes` [~user@cm-84.209.90.205.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:28 phf [~user@75.150.171.217] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:36 -!- phf [~user@75.150.171.217] has left #lisp 20:21:13 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:55 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:36 KaiQ [~localhost@88.116.5.210] has joined #lisp 20:26:50 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@75-164-5-82.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:29:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:01 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 20:35:09 is there an easy way to get a macrolet expansion in slime? 20:35:44 -!- Kruppe- [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:36:13 M-x slime-macroexpand-1 20:36:27 That expands defmacro, not macrolet 20:36:42 d'oh 20:37:21 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:38:00 Which hints at a way to do it. Move the macrolet out to a defmacro 20:38:10 macroexpand-dammit doesn't? 20:38:38 wws: yeah, that'd be the less easy way 20:38:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:39:45 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 20:40:26 (defmacro expand (form &environment env) (macroexpand form env)) (macrolet ((m (x) `(list ,x ,x))) (expand (m 42))) 20:40:54 You need to use a macro, to capture the environment. 20:40:58 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:22 ah, thanks. It's still a code injection, but an easy one it seems 20:43:25 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:45:28 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:34 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:45:39 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:16 -!- neoncort` [~neoncorte@177.39.189.243] has quit [Changing host] 20:46:16 neoncort` [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 20:46:21 -!- neoncort` is now known as neoncortex 20:46:58 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:49:28 prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has joined #lisp 20:49:48 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:49:50 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 20:50:51 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:11 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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I can get the desired behaviour by doing `(progn ,@(mapcar etc but what is wrong theoretically with wanting to do `,@ 22:10:55 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:23 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:11:47 joneshf-work [~joneshf@98.238.144.159] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:07 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:12:48 If it produces syntactically valid results, I don't see any problem with whatever you want to use. 22:15:04 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@98.238.144.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:27 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:42 I guess it depends on what you mean by "into the top level of a macro". 22:17:01 nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has joined #lisp 22:19:01 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:19:17 <_death> djames: where does it splice the elements to? 22:20:11 The use case was a form, (test 1 2 3 4) where i would mapcar over the values wrapping them in some function calls. I was hoping `,@ would just let me splice the resulting forms directly into the body of the macrolet defining 'test'. 22:21:07 <_death> djames: what does "directly into the body of the macrolet" mean 22:21:30 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:21:40 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@58.209.41.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:23:41 djames: it sounds like just doing (mapcar etc etc) without any quoting would do what you are trying to do 22:23:45 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:23:45 -!- enn_ is now known as enn 22:23:49 <_death> enn: no, it would not 22:24:06 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:24:38 (defun xyz () 22:24:39 (macrolet ((test (&rest cases) 22:24:39 `(progn ,@(mapcar #'(lambda (case) `(princ ,case)) cases)))) 22:24:44 (test 1 2 3))) 22:24:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:17 so this is the working version, but it includes what seems to be an additional unnecessary progn 22:25:19 joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-231-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:55 additional unnecessary PROGNs shouldn't have any cost in the generated code! 22:26:57 tormar [~tormar@189.103.212.193.static.cust.telenor.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:04 I would really like this to expand to (defun xyz () (princ 1) (princ 2) (princ 3)) 22:27:36 <_death> djames: you are conflating a bunch of stuff. first, `,@ has nothing to do with macros 22:28:03 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:28:09 -!- tormar [~tormar@189.103.212.193.static.cust.telenor.com] has left #lisp 22:28:26 <_death> djames: it does not make sense, because there's no place for it to splice to 22:28:34 right 22:29:48 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-197-96.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:29:51 <_death> djames: secondly, a macro form (i.e. (test 1 2 3 4)) expands to a single other form, hence the need for progn 22:30:13 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-94-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:31:16 right I see, it can't splice into something that is outside the scope of the ` 22:31:57 <_death> now you may ask why can't a macro form expand to more (or fewer) forms 22:32:08 yes, I was about to ask that 22:33:45 ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:26 <_death> it's not useful 22:34:28 Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:36 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:35:43 <_death> (note that forms are expanded from outside in) 22:37:25 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:38:05 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:38:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:20 ok thanks guys. 22:41:11 <_death> djames: I can give an example 22:41:34 ok 22:43:13 djames, are you a perl monk? 22:44:16 i have no experience of perl at all. C,C++ and C# are my dayjob languages 22:46:07 pdk [~realname@c-71-236-103-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:23 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.42.83] has joined #lisp 22:50:22 djames: you can write a flatten-progn function. 22:52:36 <_death> djames: suppose I have (defun foo (x y) (+ x y)).. what should happen with (foo (bar)) ? 22:53:49 if it were a macro? 22:54:28 <_death> djames: so you care what bar is? :) 22:56:00 if (bar) returns (values 1 2) for example it's not going to pick up on the 2 without multiple-value-call 22:56:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:30 if it's a macro call that splices in (1 2) then i suppose it'd be 3 22:56:46 come to think i'm not really sure if macros can just expand to series of values without any list around them 22:57:07 i mean they can expand to single unsurrounded symbols i think 22:57:12 couldn't speak to multiple ones though 22:58:51 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:05 ha! that's interesting, pdk that's where this conversation started 22:59:08 pdk: Macros expand to a single form. 22:59:19 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:48 so there's no expanding macros to just 1 2 3 with no surrounding list 22:59:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:01:00 pdk: Correct. But, as you are usually expanding to code that you want to execute, expanding to (progn form1 form2 form3) is a common way to achieve that. 23:01:26 ok then 23:01:38 and again, while progn might have syntactic overhead, it has no runtime overhead (in compiled lisps) 23:01:40 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:01:51 fractastical [~jdietz@c-98-210-178-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:12 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:56 slyrus: therep? 23:03:14 Xach: herep 23:03:58 everywhere a p p 23:04:16 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:27 <_death> djames: so we're in the world of Multiform Macros and it returns 1, 2 and the expanded form is (foo 1 2) and its evaluation gives me 3.. now I do this: (fmakunbound 'foo) (defmacro foo (x y) `(+ ,x ,y)) (foo (bar)) .. what do you think happens? 23:04:31 Xach: it means, does the quicklisp client assume there is no circularity between systems, or does it not care, because e.g. it only recurses on dists, that can have circular dependencies, and delegates system management to asdf 23:04:36 (every 'someplacep *user-list*) 23:05:15 if it doesn't care, then "just" canonicalizing system names to primary system names should work in a wholly backward compatible way 23:05:52 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:05:59 ahh that's going above my head now! 23:06:17 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 23:07:13 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@c-98-210-178-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 23:07:37 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:08:07 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 23:12:14 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:14 -!- djames [~dan@host-2-100-194-11.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:16 Fare: since you and Xach are both here, I should mention that we discussed having ASDF (through COERCE-NAME) enforce limitations on system names. 23:14:54 That would assure him that all our system names (including the "slashy" ones) could be mapped straightforwardly onto the filesystem. 23:15:17 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:15:41 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:47 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.42.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:27 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:03 -!- akersof [~akersof@unaffiliated/zoroaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:34 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 23:29:57 people say an evaluation takes place in the context of an environment but really it also takes places in the context of a set of macros right? 23:30:02 -!- ubikation [~user@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:30:04 so really there are 2 "context objects" to deal with 23:30:21 yes? 23:31:09 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:31:33 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.140.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:54 rpg: I don't know if Xach is still here. 23:32:13 Fare: sounds like not. I will not be here myself in about 10 minutes! 23:32:21 note that the slashy names are a strict improvement upon previous alternatives 23:32:35 Xach: would like to be able to map all his names onto the filesystem to provide a data store. 23:32:40 theseb: macros are part of the environment, no? 23:32:54 on ASDF2, slashy names would work everywhere that non-slashy names were used for secondary names 23:33:14 I think we can let him do this even for the slashy names, if he can replace all the slashes with "_". Since underscores are forbidden in logical pathnames, they should be forbidden in system names, too. 23:33:14 on ASDF3, they work *and* they allow the system to find the asd file by name 23:33:28 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 23:33:35 jasom: i thought environment was ONLY variable values 23:33:44 But to do this, we need to enforce this prohibition. 23:34:04 jasom: but that clears up a lot..thanks 23:34:08 I think it would be good to articulate rules for ASDF system names and enforce them, anyway. 23:35:09 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@s213-103-195-100.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:36:59 -!- crixxus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:38:03 clhs defmacro 23:38:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmac.htm 23:38:28 theseb: read the first paragraph of the description for that 23:40:15 -!- Splenetic [~Splenetic@78.154.134.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:41:48 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:45:03 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 23:46:08 akersof [~akersof@99.0.19.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:44 jasom: ic 23:46:48 thanks 23:48:13 theseb: to really get an idea for environments you'll want to read all of chapter 3 several times 23:49:58 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:56 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 23:51:02 Fare: maybe we can talk more tomorrow. I have to run now. 23:51:06 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:51:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:49 -!- akersof [~akersof@99.0.19.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52:27 oh, he uses logical pathnames? 23:52:55 logical pathnames don't work well with either slashes or underscore, indeed. 23:54:12 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:36 akersof [~akersof@unaffiliated/zoroaster] has joined #lisp 23:54:59 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:55:05 fractastical [~jdietz@99-127-225-204.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:08 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: conversation stopped into perpetual darkness] 23:58:15 hi Fare. happy new year :) 23:58:54 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:05 dto: bonne année! 23:59:46 Bueno año nuevo 23:59:55 rpg: actually, logical pathnames are not a hurdle, precisely because the secondary part of the name is stripped before becoming a pathname!