00:00:09 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@250.Red-88-5-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:13 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:02:59 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 00:03:41 why do reduce's FUNCTION arg must also be able to accept no arguments? 00:04:19 for the identity 00:04:51 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 00:05:10 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:20 how do you mean? 00:05:34 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:56 (+) is zero, (*) is one 00:06:49 <_death> leo2007: what should (reduce f '(42)) return 00:06:58 _death: good point 00:07:10 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:33 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:07:53 Does anyone use cl-package-aliases? How are aliases different from nicknames? 00:08:11 Aliases for packages. 00:08:15 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister 00:08:19 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:09:14 _death: but if it is single item list then the job is done so the function needs not be called? 00:09:20 <_death> leo2007: eh.. I should've said (reduce f '()) (obviously) 00:09:40 _death: exactly 00:10:18 drmeister: looks like the aliases are local. 00:10:30 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:26 <_death> leo2007: if you explicitly supply an initial-value, your function can require 2 args 00:12:05 same for if I make sure the sequence has more than 1 items? 00:12:43 <_death> leo2007: yes.. though I think clhs is a bit ambivalent in the entry for reduce 00:12:53 Bike: Hmmm - ok. I probably just want shorter nicknames. 00:13:25 <_death> leo2007: on the one hand it says that the function _must_ be able to accept no args.. on the other it also says that the only case where it will be called this way is in that specific case of empty sequence and no initial-value 00:13:30 _death: I thought it was a hard requirement and wondered 00:16:59 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:18:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:10 god_clearance [~god_clear@pool-72-69-20-15.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:11 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZZ] 00:24:02 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:25:00 pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has joined #lisp 00:25:58 -!- pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:55 -!- god_clearance [~god_clear@pool-72-69-20-15.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:31:02 If I don't specify reader or writer functions for slots in DEFCLASS I can only access them with slot-value or with-slots - correct? 00:32:04 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:32:21 And :accessor specifies a function that can be used to read and write a slot. 00:32:23 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.161.55.88] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:35:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:38:26 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:47:27 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:48:45 -!- segv- [~mb@cpeB-151.mvcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:48:57 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 00:50:50 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@ip-64-134-235-232.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 00:56:01 Zag [~Zag@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:58:57 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:02 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@li94-204.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:04:31 -!- karswell` [~user@13.194.189.80.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:20 It specifies two functions, actually. 01:05:29 one named FOO and one named (SETF FOO) 01:05:35 -!- stanislav__ [~stanislav@2.83.73.214] has left #lisp 01:06:22 It's like having separate :reader FOO and :writer (SETF FOO) options. (That's why :writer functions have the lambda list they do) 01:08:43 *Xach* topical 01:09:37 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:11:08 -!- Zag is now known as zag 01:11:21 -!- zag is now known as Zagaba 01:14:28 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 01:14:49 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:15:05 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:56 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:20:11 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:03 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:41 -!- echo-are` [~user@114.254.107.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:15 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:00 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:35:50 joast 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[~paul0@200.146.127.216.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:17 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:26:28 fractastical [~jdietz@108-71-93-75.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:00 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:04 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:37:58 -!- motionman is now known as DailyNick 06:38:02 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:38:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 06:38:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 06:38:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:40:41 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 06:44:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-106.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:44:50 Want to see something cool? This is an Common Lisp (with extensions) program that crawls through the Clang Abstract-Syntax-Tree of about 150 C++ files (of the Common Lisp environment no less) looking for "class" and "struct" definitions and then dumps their AST representation. The next step is to expose the source-to-source translation facilities to enable S2S translation of C++ using Common Lisp. https://gist.g 06:44:50 ithub.com/anonymous/7e95f021cba8e5259630 06:44:58 https://gist.github.com/anonymous/046476003e4b334b62d9 06:45:14 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:46:15 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-106.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:52 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.39] has joined #lisp 06:56:03 jsambrook_ [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:38 -!- jsambrook_ [~jsambrook@c-24-16-12-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:00:44 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 07:02:16 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@108-71-93-75.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 07:06:15 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:07:01 kdas_ [~kdas@106.76.120.225] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:44 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 07:07:45 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:25 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:09:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:10:50 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 07:11:30 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:29 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:31 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:20:21 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:22:19 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:42 vaporatorius [~vaporator@250.Red-88-5-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:46 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.70] has joined #lisp 07:26:33 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:34 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.48.112] has joined #lisp 07:28:40 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 07:29:41 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.108.19.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:30:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:31:35 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 07:31:43 How do you do currying? https://gist.github.com/burrows-labs/8279413 07:32:04 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-yfvrvljmjetctids] has joined #lisp 07:32:06 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-yfvrvljmjetctids] has quit [Changing host] 07:32:06 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:33:15 -!- klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:21 I don't understand the question. There's a curry thing. Is it working? 07:34:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:35:00 Yes it works. 07:35:18 That is what I did; I was wondering if someone had a more idiomatic/different/better way to do it. 07:35:20 pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has joined #lisp 07:38:29 This is, AFAIK, the idiomatic curry: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/functions.html#curry 07:39:13 Although I *think* it's technically partial application (but don't quote me on that, I am not confident enough in the differences to discuss them) 07:39:34 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-71-174-212-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 07:39:37 I see. 07:40:21 I still find funcall/apply to be code cluttering. 07:40:43 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:23 It does obscure, agreed. 07:41:33 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:48 I would advise your defcurry macro to take a new function-name and the existing function 07:41:53 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 07:42:35 E.g., (defcurry simple-function complex-function) => ;;results in a (defun simple-function ) 07:42:50 Instead of automatically creating a curry- prefix. 07:43:07 Would also suggest having helpful messages in the assert calls 07:43:26 & having a #-sbcl(error "must have sbcl") form in the macro 07:43:49 Right that makes sense. 07:45:07 I also suspect there's a simpler curry-helper hiding in your code, but it's almost midnight and I can't give exceptional guidance atm 07:46:32 Also, you should ask yourself about how you want the base function's binding to be. 07:46:52 -!- pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 07:47:04 If the base function is redefined, should the curried variant pick up the redefinition, or should it capture the base function definition somehow and always call taht 07:47:26 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.90.70] has left #lisp 07:47:29 Yes that's interesting. 07:47:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-nhfhlqwcvoummbrc] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 Mathieu [mlegrand@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:caf4] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vgfhclgngztlparb] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 splittist_ [uid17737@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxgmaxaovlxjtitt] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 loke [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:7e:88d4:ef8c:8377] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 brown`` [user@nat/google/x-tfkkizovticskxoe] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 -!- hubbard.freenode.net changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: hunchentoot 1.2.23, flexi-streams 1.0.10, SBCL 1.1.14, cl-who 1.1.3 07:48:44 At a guess, you want to capture the definition local to the curried function, or your base will shift under you and then you will have a horrible bug sometime in your Lisp image that is not discernable in your code and goes away only when restarting the image. 07:52:45 Yes that's unfriendly. 07:53:20 Oh yeah. Symbol-concat should look like (intern (concatenate 'string (string a) (string b))) if you keep it 07:53:27 no need to read-from-string 07:53:58 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:02 I don't like intern because it doesn't respect (readtable-case *readtable*) 07:54:08 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:54:11 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 07:54:16 But maybe that doesn't matter? 07:54:24 In this sort of code, it doesn't. 07:54:44 I've never heard of readtable-case being an issue (but maybe I don't hang out around the right folks) 07:56:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:31 abunchofdollarsi: a common way to get the readtable case factored in is to use a symbol, then intern the symbol's name, (symbol-name '#:curry-) 07:59:21 p_nathan, if I use intern then I end up with a function having name 'curry-' then it's inconsistent with everything else when I try to call it. 08:00:01 Vivitron, yes I like that. 08:00:59 -!- igorw [~igorw@unaffiliated/igorw] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:01:22 igorw [~igorw@unaffiliated/igorw] has joined #lisp 08:03:31 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 08:04:03 abunchofdollarsi: I assume more general curring will be better. Say we write "(curried-func (func _2 a _1))" to denote a function "(lambda (x y) (func y a x))". Symbols like _1, _2 - placeholders of arguments. 08:04:04 abunchofdollarsi: https://gist.github.com/pnathan/8279602 that's how I'd do it 08:05:24 STilda, that's cool. 08:05:50 abunchofdollarsi: I do not have implementation though :-) 08:09:06 Is that actually any shorter? :) 08:09:19 Although, note that that is not currying. 08:09:36 jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:10:05 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 08:10:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-106.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: loud] 08:11:20 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:27 Zhivago: no, not shorter. It is more like partial application with possibility to shuffle parameters. 08:13:00 Zhivago, the difference being that a curried function should only take on argument? 08:13:39 -!- yroeht1 [~yroeht@horgix.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:14:20 yroeht1 [~yroeht@horgix.fr] has joined #lisp 08:14:26 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:14:30 s/on/one 08:17:24 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 -!- macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:42 macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:21:14 surrounder_ [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:23:01 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:23:28 -!- surrounder_ is now known as surrounder 08:30:39 morning 08:34:24 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:37:31 codeburg [~codeburg@85.183.24.157] has joined #lisp 08:40:12 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:45:26 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 08:45:30 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:08 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:01 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-98-207-106-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:47:17 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:31 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-colpnvsypluzobef] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:50:47 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 08:53:03 nug700_ [~nug700@71-37-218-102.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:18 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-119-199.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54:21 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 08:56:18 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.48.112] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 08:56:27 Petit_Dejeuner__ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:59 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:58:38 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:58:49 -!- codeburg [~codeburg@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:58:59 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@71-37-218-102.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:59:16 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:59:53 -!- Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:03:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:06:38 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:07:07 fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:00 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:48 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 09:15:09 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-blzmburrnyphhqex] has joined #lisp 09:15:09 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-blzmburrnyphhqex] has quit [Changing host] 09:15:09 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:18:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 09:18:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 09:18:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:18:50 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 09:19:24 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:22:30 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 09:24:21 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:23 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 09:27:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 09:30:59 -!- resttime [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: resttime] 09:31:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:34:38 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 09:37:34 abk [~abhishekk@14.140.219.22] has joined #lisp 09:40:26 -!- setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:40:57 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 09:40:58 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:08 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:45 JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 Hi. I am trying to speed up my code a little bit. I use profiler in slime. What does number in "Cons per call" column mean? Is it number of cons operations or number of allocated bytes or ...? 09:44:01 the latter, naturally 09:44:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:45:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:25 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 09:45:54 JorDunn [~JorDunn@c-24-131-164-73.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 stassats: thanks. 09:48:04 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:49:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:52:11 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 09:53:03 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:53:26 harish [~harish@175.156.116.24] has joined #lisp 09:54:09 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:54:40 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit 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has joined #lisp 11:06:33 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@106.76.120.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:17 Hi again. Why can profiler report be empty while "total monitoring overhead" is 60 secons? There are profiled function that are definitely executed. 11:12:17 other_nick-37 [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:12:19 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:21 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:15:08 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 11:15:16 kdas_ [~kdas@106.66.27.31] has joined #lisp 11:17:52 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:27 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@d110-33-255-190.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:32 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-255-190.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:24:18 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 11:24:29 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 11:24:41 Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone here uses ``slimv''? 11:29:42 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.205.22] has joined #lisp 11:29:51 Sweet. 11:30:26 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 11:30:47 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:32:20 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 11:33:27 elderK: I don't. But I did spend some time experimenting with using vi (well, vim), a terminal repl and cut-n-paste (slimv wasn't quite ready for me at the time) and even that is highly doable if you're a vi type. Of course, if you have a specific question about slimv this answer is useless... 11:34:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:14 splittist_: I've mostly just used hand-written little vimscripts to do what SlimV does nicer. 11:35:19 I.e. sending stuff to tmux or screen. 11:35:26 Vicle's pretty useful for that, too. 11:35:28 or ConqueTerm. 11:35:31 :) But thanks. 11:35:43 See, I'm not sur eif it's specific to SlimV, ECL or SlimV+ECL 11:35:47 or maybe ECL's swank server. 11:36:04 But whenenver I send something to ECL via swank that's erroneous, the swank process terminates. 11:36:08 I.e. 11:36:09 if I go: 11:36:13 (list abc def) 11:36:24 when abc and def aren't defined, the swank process quits. 11:36:29 it exits properly - it's not a crash. 11:36:32 But it's annoying :P 11:38:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:39:39 nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.175.80.186] has joined #lisp 11:42:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:42:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 11:42:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 11:42:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:44:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44:49 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 11:46:11 -!- other_nick-37 [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:32 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:48:16 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-82-8.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:52:09 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 11:54:57 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:23 Also, does anyone here use paredit mode on Vim? 11:56:04 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:08 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:56:16 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:58:18 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:39 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-129.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:03:45 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:39 STilda: profiling is often stochastic. 12:05:00 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 12:05:28 Which is why valgrind is cool. 12:06:19 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:03 elderK: perhaps you've got a wrong communication option between slime and swank? Check the doc of swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* and swank:*globally-redirect-io* ; Perhaps setting the former to nil and the later to t in ~/.swank.lisp would solve it? Or some other setting. 12:07:19 See also swank:*communication-style* 12:08:39 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:14 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:11:40 mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has joined #lisp 12:11:43 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 12:14:34 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:43 thanks pjb :) 12:19:17 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gcfizhqfokqebfxu] has joined #lisp 12:19:17 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gcfizhqfokqebfxu] has quit [Changing host] 12:19:17 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:19:38 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:21:00 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:23:36 -!- stassats 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[~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:35:38 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 15:38:36 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 15:42:18 When writing parallel code how do you go about determining the number of cores on the box? Googling around didn't pull anything up. I can of course determine this using the command line and then pass N into my LISP proc, but this feels wrong. Am I missing something obvious? 15:43:45 francis_wolke: sysconf(_SC_NPROCESSORS_ONLN) 15:43:58 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:26 I would do with-open-file /proc/cpuinfo or the like 15:45:07 dim: that's linux-only. sysconf() is POSIX, although this specific constant might not be. 15:46:36 flip214_: Thank you 15:47:10 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:48:34 I don't know how to resort to a POSIX system call from lisp portably, maybe that's why I'm still thinking with-open-file 15:49:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:51:07 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 15:51:14 paul0 [~paul0@200.146.127.216.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:53:33 dim: portably, you can't 15:53:40 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has joined #lisp 15:53:41 but then, /proc/cpuinfo isn't portable either 15:53:45 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:13 Beg maintainers for support in the runtime 15:54:38 OSICAT has SYSCONF. 15:54:41 It'd be neat if someone (else) actually made a portable posix library. iolib did some good work in that direction, but it's not complete 15:55:11 yes it did. Is it dead (jim)? 15:55:45 or bones I guess 15:56:26 No 15:56:49 it's not dead, but it wasn't aiming at a complete posix capability, either 15:57:05 activity appears undated 15:57:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:57:50 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:52 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 works in any LSB would be fine 15:58:48 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 15:58:50 (for me) 15:59:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:50 rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:02 i guess github shows the activity level 16:00:30 -!- capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:30 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:31 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:03:43 Just pulled a new copy of SLIME, and now I get a warning about my versions of SLIME and SWANK being different. Should this worry me? 16:03:58 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has joined #lisp 16:04:24 I hope you don't mind launching nuclear missiles at Norway 16:04:41 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-71.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:20 it probably won't go wrong in some non-obvious way 16:05:20 rpg: I haven't had many things break because of that, and it usually goes away in my next emacs session when it uses the new slime.el. 16:05:48 Xach: Thanks. If I can expect it to go away in the next emacs I'll just restart. 16:06:47 capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:14 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 16:14:15 Xach: BTW, sometime I'd like to have a chat with you about how the ASDF development and maintenance process can best work together with your quicklisp development process. Unfortunately, January is shaping up to be "so busy my head's exploding." 16:14:28 -!- loke [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:7e:88d4:ef8c:8377] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:11 Right now Quicklisp is extra sensitive to ASDF changes because there's no undo or escape hatch. 16:16:40 I'm going to work this week on a way to properly roll back to working configurations, so that will make me less conservative about using newer shinier ASDF. 16:16:53 loke [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:6469:14bf:3b40:9ec4] has joined #lisp 16:17:10 I have the rollback for libraries, but not for Quicklisp and supporting software itself. 16:18:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:17 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:31 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 16:21:40 Xach: One thing I'd like to see is some way to make Fare's "slashy" system names compatible with Quicklisp 16:22:41 Before those slashy names, the only systems that could be loaded were those that could be named by a disk file. So I used disk files to store information about them. 16:22:57 It will require some fixing to use a different scheme for storing information. 16:23:02 Where I work we have a number of very large systems, and the ability to bury multiple system definitions in a single file is actually quite helpful, so I appreciate this scheme, but I understand it's a nuisance for you. 16:23:06 dlowe: yeah, I though that maybe another file would exist in other systems, seems I've been fooled by too much imagination again 16:23:59 Xach: system.sexp maybe? 16:24:07 or rather systems 16:24:59 dim: I find it less nice to update the contents of a file. It's so much easier to manipulate discrete entries in the filesystem, when it fits. 16:27:13 Xach: sorry -- why doesn't it work to expand the relative names of the systems in a slashy name into multiple entries in the filesystem? 16:28:37 (make-pathname :name "foo/bar" ...) is not going to work out of the box. 16:29:08 That is a simple thing to fix, but it's possibly not the last thing to fix. 16:29:38 fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:56 I don't know if slashed system names are constrained to be filesystem-sane any more. Is "foo/<**kwonkellll**>" a perfectly fine system name now? 16:29:59 dim: Im here not, sorry for misreading, looking into your patches again 16:30:47 It seems like it should be, if systems are named by strings, and only the part before the slash has to match up to a file. But then, asdf:find-system can just return system objects now, as I understand it. 16:31:01 The simple things seem like they give way to more complicated things. 16:31:52 bobbysmith0071: hi, great news, thanks for spending (some more) time on it! 16:32:12 I really want to avoid maintaining yet another CSV lib, and I really want Xach to be able to include pgloader in Quicklisp ;-) 16:33:30 Xach: now that you've hit a wall I would assume that no bijection exist in between file system names and lisp system names, and will begin with asking you which encoding your typical linux/unix file system is using? 16:33:44 AFAIK, the file system names encoding is unspecified. 16:33:53 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-71.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:57 for me that's end of story, using the FS that way is a dead end 16:35:18 -!- abk [~abhishekk@14.140.219.22] has left #lisp 16:35:28 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:32 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.20.195] has joined #lisp 16:37:32 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.20.195] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:32 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 16:39:25 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:17 -!- clop2 is now known as clop 16:42:10 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:10 Xach: That's a good question: I will see what I can either find about restrictions on system names and if not, we can specify constraints. 16:42:34 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 16:42:40 And by "specify" I include "make ASDF enforce" 16:43:48 These constraints could add ruling out the use of some filesystem-benign character that you could use as a substitute for the slash when naming your system-data files. 16:44:51 I'm confused by your earlier remark -- I believe ASDF:FIND-SYSTEM always returned system objects. 16:45:54 dim: There's still a mapping from lisp system names to file-system names, it's just not injective (did I get that right?) it's many to one now. 16:46:31 injective means given any input value you always get the same output 16:46:32 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-71-174-212-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 surjective (in french) means given any output value there's a single input value that can produce it 16:47:18 bijective, you have both 16:47:22 dim: I think injective means "preserves distinctions in the input." So for different input you get different output. That's what we don't have. 16:47:33 that's surjective in my books 16:47:51 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:47:53 or maybe I'm confused, too 16:47:53 According to wikipedia (and my Metric Theory book) "In mathematics, an injective function or injection or one-to-one function is a function that preserves distinctness: it never maps distinct elements of its domain to the same element of its codomain." 16:48:16 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:26 so I am the one being confused 16:48:39 dim: I believe "surjective" is "onto" 16:48:44 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 16:48:54 but well given that in most cases there's no way to know what the file system encoding is, then I would just stop using it for any interesting data 16:48:55 Guys ... Injective: \forall x,y: f(x)=f(y) => x=y 16:48:56 every element in the range has an element in the domain. 16:49:16 {a,b,c} => {1,2,3} 16:49:21 dim: what do you mean by "file system encoding"? 16:49:29 basically. and never the twain shall have the same element in the codomain 16:51:16 so if the range is the set of asd files and the domain is the set of systems, the mapping is surjective, but not injective. Note, though, that if you have a set of asd files and a set of system objects, you can easily compute the map from asd files to system objects. 16:51:37 rpg: when you read a filename, which encoding is it in? 16:51:51 on NTFS I think it defaults to utf16 and can be changed 16:52:00 on Unix traditionnaly it's unknown, or ASCII if you prefer 16:52:27 dim: that's what I was afraid you meant. Yes, unicode is a dog's breakfast. 16:53:05 so knowing that you can't know the encoding of the names of the files on the file system, I would not encoding any interesting information into those names 16:53:06 rpg, given you don't have any asd file not defining any system in it; or definitions for the same system in two different asd files. 16:53:09 However, unless we are going to some utopian Smalltalk-like coding environment, we are of necessity going to store information about our systems in the filesystem. 16:53:15 but maybe that's just me being too much of a database guy ;-) 16:54:15 dim: Get thee to smalltalk. 16:55:06 ;-) 16:55:46 rpg: Sorry, the system search functions 16:55:50 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:00 rpg: I can't remember the name, but the one that uses *system-mumble-search-functions* 16:56:54 you can avoid all problems with the mapping by simply not storing/encoding the information at the file system level, but within a file 16:57:13 I'm happy to put limitations on the names we permit for ASDF systems and the filesystem codings that we are willing to read, as necessary. Giving up the filesystem as data store for unicode's benefit is giving up the baby for a lot of dirty bathwater, IMO 16:57:14 and given lisp, well, the saving and loading looks easy enough to do 16:57:25 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 16:57:25 dim: Ah, I misunderstood what you were saying! 16:57:39 You are talking about the encoding used for fileNAMES. 16:57:46 -!- fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: fractastical] 16:57:52 dim, actually any sequence of (unsigned-byte 8) not containing / and \0 and not '.' or '..' works on linux with ext4 as a filename. 16:58:04 don't think unicode, think OS setups in arabic, KOi8R or one of the 3 major Japanese encodings that are not unicode 16:58:41 Does CL even have a consistent, plausible strategy for dealing with Arabic or other complex character set? 16:59:29 rpg: there isn't a consistent strategy for RTL, only a bunch of semistandard algorithms 16:59:43 *MikeSeth* is in a RTL country 17:00:17 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@85.110.81.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:21 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:00:51 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.81.192] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 I'm not sure to what extent it's worth worrying about mapping ASDF system names with more ambitious character sets into filesystems, if the ASDF systems can't handle such character sets.... 17:01:26 You can't even have an ASDF system name with upper case letters in it! 17:01:50 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:14 oh I didn't know about that restriction... so as long as any FS is doing ASCII the same way any CL implement does, then it's fine I guess? 17:03:29 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:50 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:05:06 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:05:08 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.81.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05:43 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:14 -!- Mathieu [mlegrand@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:caf4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:13 dim: the limitations are pretty extreme because of the archaic nature of the spec. 17:09:51 dim: things get very hairy with output rendering, sorting and comparison whereever glyph sets are mixed, but when RTL and LTR languages mix it gets much worse 17:10:49 Xach: It occurs to me that ASDF system names are constrained to avoid _ because of limitations of logical pathnames. Could you use "_" as your rewrite for "/"? I think we could safely ban it from system names. But then I don't know if quicklisp is constrained to be compatible with logical pathnames. 17:10:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:10:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:56 Mathieu [mlegrand@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:caf4] has joined #lisp 17:12:57 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:31 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 rpg: Is that constraint enforced? 17:14:46 Xach: Probably not, but I could ensure that it is. 17:15:10 If it isn't enforced, results could be ugly if you add, e.g. "home:lisp;" to your ASDF search path 17:15:14 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 17:15:21 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:15:32 Faed [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:40 I know the system names are downcased. 17:16:00 because ASDF will accept either symbols or strings as system names. 17:17:13 No, COERCE-NAME does no enforcement. But that can be fixed. 17:18:12 It should be.... 17:18:44 you could punycode non-ascii characters 17:18:55 since hyphen is allowed 17:19:32 jasom: can't have non-ascii characters, I believe, because of logical pathname limitations. 17:19:51 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:52 axion [~axion@static-71-245-156-232.alb.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:14 rpg: punycode is a unicode -> ascii encoding where ascii strings represent themselves 17:20:43 it's what DNS uses for internationalized domains 17:21:02 Dodek [am291698@duch.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 right, but we are planning on outlawing any names that can't be crammed into logical pathnames; hence no need to map unicode to ASCII. Don't mean to be chauvinist, but unless we can get ISO to reopen CL standardization, we are stuck with LPs as they are. 17:21:37 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 17:22:13 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-186-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:22:38 hey, when i'm using slime with sbcl, the backtraces don't work as well as i would want. more specifically, the local variable are either lost or are replaced with sb-debug::arg-n or something like this 17:22:57 moreover, eval-in-frame doesn't really seem to work -- when i try this, local names are unbound 17:23:03 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-152-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:06 what could be the reason? can it be fixed? 17:23:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:23:13 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 17:23:24 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has joined #lisp 17:23:56 Dodek: I'm not an SBCL expert, but any chance it's the optimization policy, and you need to keep more debug information? 17:24:34 Dodek: sb-debug::arg-n should evaluate correctly with eval-in-frame 17:24:35 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:13 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:20 rpg: hmm, it didn't help before, but it helped now. 17:25:23 thanks 17:25:29 and (declaim (optimize (speed 1) (safety 1) (debug 3))) at the top of your file can go a long way towards keeping more debug info 17:26:00 what if i wanted to set (debug 3) globally instead of putting it in every file? 17:26:18 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:26:21 KaiQ [~localhost@88.116.5.210] has joined #lisp 17:26:50 Ogion_ [~Ogion@213.Red-83-49-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:02 I don't think thre's a portable way of doing that, but I could be wrong. May be a sbcl specific way 17:27:05 Isn't that what the policy is for? 17:27:12 That is SBCL-specific. 17:28:04 ah, this is enough for me 17:28:05 thanks 17:28:17 in the local-time docs, the definition of nsec-of says: 17:28:27 -!- enn_ is now known as enn 17:28:39 Returns the 'microseconds' component of the time. Valid values for the nanoseconds range from 0 to 999999999. 17:29:28 is the word microseconds here a mistake, or something that I'm not understanding? it seems like nanoseconds is correct. 17:29:33 -!- Ogion [~Ogion@213.Red-83-49-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:48 przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14594.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:45 nsec definitely returns nanoseconds 17:30:53 ok 17:30:57 fractastical [~jdietz@c-50-174-63-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:24 Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:43 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has joined #lisp 17:32:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:35 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 17:34:36 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:35:38 -!- Petit_Dejeuner__ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:26 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[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:28 -!- dsnb [~dsnb@host140-54-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:34 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 21:05:39 um 21:05:59 why is www.lisp.org still giving me a picture of John McCarthy? And a link to his obituary 21:07:29 Because they replaced the picture of Alonzo Church with the link to his obituary? 21:08:09 I know lisp is dead, but that's ridiculous 21:08:18 *Xach* is reminded of https://twitter.com/xach/status/414176569477697536 21:09:05 It's only been 2 years, don't be so insensitive! 21:09:42 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:49 Joreji [~thomas@158-142.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 Well, it will change next time somebody as important as John McCarthy dies. 21:10:59 how morbid 21:11:01 that can be arranged 21:11:16 lisp, language of death 21:11:35 Xach: that somebody dies, yes, but as important as JMC, I doubt it. 21:12:04 Xach: hah. Pure coincidence I assure you 21:12:05 wilfredh [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjsrgrzphelgpagi] has joined #lisp 21:12:15 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:18 Corvidium [~cosman246@97-113-7-228.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:35 Is there still an installation of the MOP dictionary somewhere under lisp.org/? 21:15:35 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:50 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.116.85] has joined #lisp 21:17:03 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:27 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:53 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:18 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:59 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-6.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:21:38 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: I really need to sleep.] 21:23:39 Do we have to post when notable lispers have children, too? 21:23:51 not important enough 21:24:30 a posthumous offspring of john mccarthy would warrant notice 21:24:44 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:25 Guys, what's the current situation with (rapid) writing a simple graphical control UI to a CL app? 21:26:41 Ltk is a somewhat uglyish hack, but known to work and look good. 21:27:11 Qt  too much c++ internals need to be known not making development rapid. 21:27:23 Any news on the cells-gtk front? 21:27:44 of the various Lisp autodoc packages, is any particularly recommended or standard? 21:28:13 Possibly the equivalent would be to change the cover whenever Sussman graduates another Ph.D. student. 21:28:35 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.206.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:52 antoszka: The last time I looked, cells-gtk seemed morbid. 21:29:05 I don't know a better solution than Ltk. 21:29:17 I thought so :) 21:29:20 Thanks. 21:29:30 In desperation I have often used my CL program as a server and written a web client UI. 21:30:05 Natch [~Natch@c-88cde155.112-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:30:05 Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has joined #lisp 21:30:08 Heh. Yeah, that's another solution. 21:30:32 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-69.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:47 hmm, how new is SB-EXT:*ON-PACKAGE-VARIANCE*? 21:31:51 zygentoma [~kvirc@s213-103-194-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:32:15 I didn't think the qt bindings required you to write any c++ code to use. 21:33:41 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-91-156.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:04 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:55 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:42 [F_F] [~IronPytho@unaffiliated/f-f/x-8601851] has joined #lisp 21:37:44 Xach: February 2013 21:37:52 git log -G'on-package-variance' 21:37:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@158-142.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:59 SetQ [~Thunderbi@ip212-109-29-134.sampo.ru] has joined #lisp 21:41:22 Alfr [~Unknown@f052153175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:42:41 -!- SetQ [~Thunderbi@ip212-109-29-134.sampo.ru] has quit [Quit: SetQ] 21:45:53 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-123-23.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:49 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #lisp 21:50:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:17 sunwukong [~androirc@catv-86-101-32-210.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:53:46 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:00 Joreji [~thomas@158-142.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:57 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@97-113-7-228.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:19 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 21:57:15 -!- mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:57:53 -!- eagleflo [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:58:15 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 21:58:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@158-142.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:29 eagleflo [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has joined #lisp 21:59:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:00:20 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@88.116.5.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:25 jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:00:37 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:25 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:01:53 Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:02:09 Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:17 mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has joined #lisp 22:05:11 blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:23 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:01 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:18 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:21 declt is listed at http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html, but I am not able to ql:quickload it 22:08:58 mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:10 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:09:27 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 22:09:48 mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:59 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 22:10:00 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:10:18 -!- vh0st- is now known as vhost- 22:10:20 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 22:10:37 mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:09 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has quit [Quit: Yanez] 22:12:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:13:01 -!- sunwukong [~androirc@catv-86-101-32-210.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:09 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:15:10 -!- Splenetic [~Splenetic@78.154.134.105] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:16:23 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:48 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:39 enn: did you upgrade the distribution? 22:19:47 pdk [~realname@c-71-236-103-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:57 prxq: of quicklisp? yes 22:20:22 (quicklisp:update-all-dists) 22:20:36 enn: then I don't know 22:21:14 ran that, no difference ... not a problem, I'm just using cl-gendoc instead, just need something quick and dirty for now 22:21:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:46 enn: did you restart the lisp? 22:22:10 prxq: yes 22:22:24 foom: I didn't say you need to write C++ by hand, but it's probably good to know the C++ side of Qt pretty well. 22:22:25 -!- j_king [~textual@d24-141-170-206.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:22:26 enn: then I really don't know 22:22:39 enn: com.dvlsoft.declt 22:23:14 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 22:23:37 jasom: ah, thank you 22:23:44 enn: I found that with (ql:system-apropos "declt") 22:23:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:59 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:26:00 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:08 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:29:12 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:14 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@s213-103-194-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:30:57 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:34:13 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:34:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:34:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:35:28 jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:38:06 Ogion_ [~Ogion@214.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:03 -!- Ogion [~Ogion@204.Red-83-38-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@191.134.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:25 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:49:00 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 22:49:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:39 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has joined #lisp 22:52:08 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:54:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-172-11-236-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:52 Question for people who work with Foreign Function Interfaces: Does it ever come up that you allocate a new FFI struct in Common Lisp and then have to hand off ownership to a C-function in the FFI? How does the FFI/Common Lisp garbage collector deal with that? Do you explicitly invalidate the Lisp pointer somehow? 22:56:01 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:02 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:32 testsadasd [~testdsads@109.207.46.4] has joined #lisp 23:00:27 Ogion__ [~Ogion@244.Red-83-36-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:32 drmeister: I think the Lisp pointer gets gc'd but any alocated memory is still in memory 23:01:50 Oh, so in cases where you don't hand off the pointer to C-functions you need to explicitly destroy the allocated memory? 23:02:16 yes 23:02:20 of course. 23:02:29 -!- Ogion_ [~Ogion@214.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:02:32 Ah, that had not occurred to me. 23:02:47 It makes perfect sense though. 23:03:07 that's why there are all those cffi:with-foreign-strnig cffi:with-foreign-memory etc macros. They allocate and deallocate temporary foreign memory. 23:03:55 I have not spent any time with FFI libraries. 23:06:49 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:53 Do any FFI's give you the option of owning or not owning the allocated memory? Is that a bad idea? 23:07:32 I mean the option of letting the CL pointer own or not own the allocated memory. 23:09:16 drmeister: I think you'd need to make your own "data type" 23:09:19 drmeister: what does that mean ? 23:09:41 you translate the pointer into lisp data structure 23:09:54 *the pointer's data 23:09:56 Poenikatu [~user@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 23:10:15 Is there a CL library on Postscript? 23:10:27 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:11:59 Poenikatu: nothing that I recall "freely available" and for portable CL, but there's a portable library generating PDFs, and there's some PS stuff in McCLIM 23:12:11 speaking of CFFI, I think my pull request was rejected https://github.com/cffi/cffi/pull/30 ;_; 23:13:41 fe[nl]ix: I have to think on this. I expose C++ class/structs as built-in CL classes. So if I have a C++ class like Rectangle you can say make-rectangle and that allocates a Rectangle on the heap and a Wrapper that points to it and it returns a CL pointer that points to the Wrapper. If the CL pointer gets GCd then the Wrapper and Rectangle are destroyed. 23:14:19 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-24-7-88-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:14:26 You can then pass the CL rectangle pointer to C++ functions and they will get the Rectangle* or Rectangle& or const Rectangle& or Rectangle automatically - whatever they need. 23:15:06 p_l: Thanks 23:15:28 If they capture the pointer then there could be trouble if the CL pointer get's GCd and the captured pointer outlives the CL pointer. 23:15:54 Poenikatu: for PDF, there's cl-pdf and a higher level library, cl-typesetting, that uses it 23:16:11 Poenikatu: another option is to generate data for ConTeXt or similar 23:17:22 p_l: Being retired and in receipt of a small income, I thought I would buy a colour laserjet printer instead of the old warhorse b/w laserjet I've been using. 23:18:05 Now if I could write CL progs which would drive said printer with some nifty stuff, I'd be more than happy. :-) 23:18:09 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:34 Poenikatu: it's... problematic. Some of the old warhorses might outlive you as long as you replace certain (slow) consumables... 23:18:47 Poenikatu: I ended up using cl-emb with a latex template for my project. 23:19:01 antoszka: What project was that? 23:19:14 Poenikatu: a very basic invoicing program for my private use. 23:19:53 Poenikatu: while it's not exactly lisp related, be very, very careful when buying a printer. They aren't called spawn of satan for nothing 23:20:11 p_l: antoszka: I used to have a colour inkjet printer which enabled me to use a judicious amount of colour to enliven printouts. Nothing fancy. 23:20:45 :) 23:21:00 p_l: So I gather, but it's also been suggested that provided that the printer has a decent warranty and will print Postscript, it should be Ok 23:21:04 Poenikatu: cl-pdf should be pretty powerful tool, especially under *nix (given that CUPS etc. now considers PDF to be default input format) 23:21:21 jbarker [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 23:21:29 p_l: Would a PS printer print PDF? 23:22:02 Poenikatu: no, but manipulating PDF into PS that will satisfy a specific printer is afaik easier 23:22:26 -!- crixus [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:28 p_l: Yes, I agree. 23:22:50 PS is more powerful in many ways, of course (being turing complete and all), but if I were to go that far then I would be writing a lisp dsl for postscript (if not writing postscript manually) 23:23:12 p_l: dsl? 23:23:45 domain-specific language. In this case it would have been a bunch of functions and macros to ease generating postscript source... :) 23:24:07 drmeister: maybe check out trivial-garbage library 23:24:12 p_l: Precisely. I thought that already existed, but I seem to be mistaken 23:24:57 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:24 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:9740:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:31 p_l: When I can get free of system administration tasks on my Linux box, I intend reading Peter Norvig's book PAIP and, after that, Sonja Keene's book on CLOS. 23:25:31 Poenikatu: I think it's because PDF drawing model etc. is a bit easier 23:26:43 drmeister: the way it implements weak-hash tables might be relevent because "an entry is kept as long as its key or value is reachable, respectively." 23:26:45 p_l: Unfortunately, my sketchy introduction to CLOS which I had in Graham's book "ANSI Common Lisp" did not persuade me that CLOS would be to my advantage as a programmer. 23:26:54 BRB 23:27:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.40.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:31 Poenikatu: I think PG's code isn't exactly best introduction, in general 23:28:03 not that it's "bad", I'd just take On Lisp instead after getting my feet wet in CL (including CLOS) 23:28:23 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:26 -!- testsadasd [~testdsads@109.207.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:29:02 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:29:08 p_l: AFAIK, On Lisp is mainly about macros 23:29:45 Poenikatu: yes. Which is why I'd take it as "advanced book on advanced topics", while other authors cover other stuff (IMHO) better 23:30:26 On Lisp was interesting in the techniques it discussed, but I wouldn't use it as a reference or introduction myself. 23:30:47 p_l: Hm. I started Norvig's book about a week ago and I'm impressed by his style. Not only does he have exercises, but he provides sample answers as well: a very instructive device. 23:31:58 p_l: Is Postscript 3 the latest `standard'? 23:32:14 Poenikatu: Level 3 I think is the "current", yes 23:32:39 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-158-37.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 23:33:02 p_l: So this new printer which I've actually purchased (will be coming this week), might be just what I want. I suppose I shall have to learn Postscript and write that dsl myself. 23:33:18 Poenikatu: can be an interesting journey :) 23:33:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-129.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:56 p_l: May it be long. At my age, anything which takes a LONG time is to be approached with caution, but you can only die once. 23:34:10 *jasom* thought PCL had mostly supplanted PS for communicating with printers 23:34:23 jasom: What is PCL? 23:34:40 jasom: Is it proprietary? 23:34:41 jasom: nope 23:34:53 Poenikatu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language 23:35:04 Poenikatu: PCL is a binary, more bitmap-oriented page description language from HP 23:35:22 takes less processing power, afaik, and ended up being quite popular, but is not really a standard 23:35:26 The last several office printers I saw supported PCL out of the box, but needed an add-on module for PS support (and none of them where HP printers) 23:35:39 s/where/were 23:36:21 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:36:21 jasom: higher end printers use both, some proof-quality hw involves a dedicated computer that accepts PS and possibly PDF as direct input 23:37:11 p_l: well I wouldn't call any of these "gihg-end" printers, just $5-10k photo/print/scan combos 23:37:31 PS Level 2 and 3 and some basic protocols give ability to run with any operating system - our "office" printer came with CD that covered stuff as exotic as HP-UX 23:38:26 p_l: the most recent one was at a friend's office. The supplier told her that it needed the PS module to print from OS X, but I set it to a generic PCL driver and it worked fine 23:39:08 jasom: Mac for years made problems for anything other than PS, afaik 23:39:34 (leading to HP LaserJet "M" submodels, iirc) 23:40:00 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-158-37.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:01 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-6.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:30 afk 23:40:46 (looong day of fixing hard drives and phone behind me 23:40:47 ) 23:41:33 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-50-181-199-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:56 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:39 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: continuation disconnected by sudden death] 23:47:03 jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-50-181-199-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:49 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 23:49:00 p_l: afk? 23:49:00 leo2007 [~leo@221.220.128.204] has joined #lisp 23:49:23 p_l: And what are HP LaserJet "M" submodels? 23:50:04 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:34 Poenikatu: away from keyboard (well, soon it will be). The "M" models of the old laserjets (single-digit models) were equipped with PostScript processor, M came from "Mac" 23:50:45 p_l: The printer I've just paid for is a HP M351a. Is that what you meant by "M" sub-models? 23:50:51 harish_ [~harish@175.156.102.128] has joined #lisp 23:51:00 -!- jsambrook [~jsambrook@c-50-181-199-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:00 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:51:30 jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:51:45 no, those were the "old warhorses" of HP :) 23:51:50 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.116.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:52:12 anyway, had a long day. I'm off :) 23:52:16 good night :) 23:53:15 Actually, guys. 23:53:53 I'm thinking that Marc's cl-typesetting might actually be outputting PS as an intermediary format rather than directly creating PDF's. 23:53:57 Have you checked? 23:54:32 Hm, maybe not. 23:56:11 cl-cairo2 can output postscript I suppose as well 23:56:40 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.227] has joined #lisp 23:57:37 crixxus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 23:58:05 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-176-188.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:23 rpg_ [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:34 pdf2ps utilities are fairly common 23:58:38 jbarker_ [~jbarker@18.189.79.180] has joined #lisp 23:58:59 if you need that .. if you want to output PS or you're drawing something, cl-cairo2 is nice, though