00:00:33 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@191.Red-88-5-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:55 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:03:27 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-234.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:39 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:39 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:04:39 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:05:35 -!- Guthur` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:23 -!- eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:08:46 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 00:10:10 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.228] has joined #lisp 00:11:37 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-4-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:38 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:46 crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 00:13:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14108.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:13:15 -!- d4gg4d__ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfctdtqiejaxqfyd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:16 -!- wilfredh [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jjjsfyvywfxxvqir] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:09 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:30 blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:33 d4gg4d__ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znlrijblcnqexiry] has joined #lisp 00:20:29 -!- fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: fp0] 00:21:10 maxpeck [~a@r49-2-21-39.cpe.vividwireless.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:21:10 -!- maxpeck [~a@r49-2-21-39.cpe.vividwireless.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 00:21:10 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 00:22:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:22:29 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:23:06 allegro provides ASDF3 but not Lispworks? 00:23:10 That surprised me for some reason 00:23:33 Also, I was REALLY surprised at how much code Franz released under their LLGPL 00:23:56 Came across it when I saw their "imap" library 00:24:13 I wonder if they'd accept patches so that it isn't allegro specific? 00:25:27 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.89.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:59 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:46 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:30:14 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:31:24 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:28 In the past, people have taken franz libraries and made new versions with new names that aren't allegro-specific 00:35:33 for example, portable allegroserve 00:35:49 -!- gluegadget_ [uid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dflseeoqxqtxlsqb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:17 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:36:23 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:36:50 -!- d4gg4d__ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znlrijblcnqexiry] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37:39 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 00:39:04 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-234.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:06 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzZZzz] 00:39:58 Oh, that's right 00:40:03 d4gg4d__ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgeywamuqjmrpvdn] has joined #lisp 00:40:08 I've seen portable allegroserve 00:40:52 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:45:01 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:45:35 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:38 -!- klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:47:47 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:08 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B33A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:49 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:32 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:55:46 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 00:56:02 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:57:47 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.212.102] has joined #lisp 00:58:01 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.212.102] has quit [Changing host] 00:58:01 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 00:59:48 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has joined #lisp 01:01:07 Isn't puri based on allegro's uri library too? 01:01:50 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:02:51 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@189.186.53.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:06 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:08:23 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:22 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:50 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:10 przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14108.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:19:43 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:21:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14108.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:23:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:53 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-234.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:33 Bike [~Glossina@71.222.63.234] has joined #lisp 01:26:37 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:50 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:30:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71.222.63.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:43 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-4-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:31:49 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-234.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:05 I think so. 01:37:37 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 01:41:13 rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.84.215] has joined #lisp 01:44:01 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:6813:a1c3:dfab:b797] has joined #lisp 01:44:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:48 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:47:02 -!- koisoke_ [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:55 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:03 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:49:04 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:53 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:50 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:59 harish_ [~harish@14.100.132.246] has joined #lisp 01:56:38 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 01:58:32 pecg [~pecg@190.92.53.221] has joined #lisp 01:58:36 -!- pecg [~pecg@190.92.53.221] has quit [Changing host] 01:58:36 pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has joined #lisp 01:58:43 TDog__ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 01:58:45 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:58:47 -!- TDog__ is now known as TDog 01:59:23 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:22 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 02:01:07 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:27 -!- TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:03 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 02:02:15 koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 02:02:32 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:05:25 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:33 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has joined #lisp 02:09:05 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:09:31 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-192-154.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:09:56 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-185-146.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:10:57 Xach: would you accept patches to quicklisp so it work better with asdf3 ? 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03:07:13 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:17 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 03:07:21 Testing asdf on all implementations reveals a bug in handling some erroneous corner case. Yay for regression testing. Fixed. 03:07:43 Fare: Taste. 03:07:51 And yay for user-meaningful error messages. 03:08:36 Xach: any less subjective hints? 03:09:35 No. 03:10:45 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:11:12 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 03:11:37 anything you find distasteful about my code in general? 03:13:32 (it might be as simple as using primary-system-name at the suitable time) 03:13:38 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:13:51 I see that you use asdf 3.0.3 in quicklisp-controller. Is there an issue with using the same in quicklisp-client? 03:13:52 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 03:14:19 how do I test that I'm not breaking everything with quicklisp-controller? 03:16:04 a mapcar of primary-system-name around (append *direct-dependencies* dependencies) in depcheck.lisp might do the trick. Or not. 03:17:59 and doesn't require upgrading the asdf in quicklisp-bootstrap (though I always recommend upgrading asdf at any time). 03:18:47 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:13 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 03:23:05 staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:32 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:45 wouldn't an advice around register-system-definition be better than a macroexpand hook around all macros? 03:25:04 I realize that macroexpand might have been necessary in asdf2 03:25:36 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:25:53 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:14 Petit_Dejeuner__ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:25 although... in late versions of asdf2, it was called do-defsystem. In earlier variants, indeed, macroexpand-hook was necessary. Sigh. 03:27:04 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:27:06 You know, if you have asked for the feature back then, I would have made it a GF, and an advice would then have been a simple :around method. 03:28:50 it might still be time also to request the maintainer to maintain weakly-depends-on information vs non-weakly. 03:30:14 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:07 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:54 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:36:15 -!- staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:55 victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcvuowbwriepafur] has joined #lisp 03:37:14 staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:18 -!- victor_lowther_ is now known as victor_lowther 03:44:14 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 03:46:42 I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/1265700 for that. 03:47:38 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:53 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 03:50:21 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:50:33 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 03:51:31 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@e179047027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:57:24 pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has joined #lisp 03:58:48 -!- pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has quit [Client Quit] 03:59:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has joined #lisp 03:59:54 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:00:39 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:37 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 04:01:41 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 04:02:35 -!- pierpa [~user@host198-93-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:51 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:51 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 04:04:48 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 04:05:27 if you compile binaries with a comercial lisp, can you deploy/distribute them without license issueS? 04:06:03 sellout-1 [~Adium@184-96-143-210.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:08 they have licenses for that, yeah, check with them 04:06:21 -!- sellout- [~Adium@184-96-143-210.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:27 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:06:28 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 04:07:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.197.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:07:39 there we go — pull request. 04:07:58 jaimef, depends what binary, what commercial lisp 04:08:28 most commercial lisps require special license to deploy/distribute software that can act as full compiler 04:08:29 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 04:08:39 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:08:58 they don't want you to sell their compiler in disguise. 04:10:04 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@184-96-143-210.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:10:15 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:52 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 04:13:09 sellout- [~Adium@184-96-143-210.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:08 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:17:59 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:40 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:53 -!- dkordic [~danilo@109-92-197-119.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:23:11 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 04:23:50 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 04:24:18 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:24:21 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 04:26:54 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has joined #lisp 04:29:32 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 04:30:08 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@host-2-96-19-224.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:08 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@host-2-96-19-224.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:30:08 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 04:30:15 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:30:27 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 04:31:30 ahh. thanks 04:33:26 dkordic [~danilo@178-223-11-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 04:33:39 alternatively, you can use a free software lisp 04:34:02 or develop on your favorite commercial compiler, and deploy with CCL or SBCL. 04:34:26 unless you use commercial non-portable extensions — then you need to talk to your vendor. 04:35:32 LW doesn't have extra runtime licenses, afaik. Allegro does 04:36:10 sbcl binaries are just soo large :P 04:37:58 jaimef: well, it's not the typical choice when deploying local applications, apparently 04:38:09 though core compression helps a bit 04:38:13 large as compared to what? 04:40:43 Fare: pretty much everything a typical person encounters with exception of .NET and Java applications that lug their runtimes around 04:41:17 p_l: what's that NS thing you tested on GenerA? 04:41:45 Fare: IC design tool 04:41:47 p_l: I suppose typical people don't encounter the massive C++ binaries we have at work... 04:42:05 well, IC (VLSI), PCB etc. 04:42:08 p_l: compile to VHDL and/or FPGA ? 04:42:31 Fare: I think it's a bit too old for that 04:42:46 probably involved some code to generate proprietary netlists etc. 04:42:58 can't exactly run it without a password unless I crack it :) 04:43:35 what is the typical distribution method for binaries in CL? 04:43:46 something that has no repl. 04:43:57 leo2007 [~leo@124.64.107.131] has joined #lisp 04:44:19 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:43 jaimef: depends on the system, but usually an executable that includes the lisp image, sometimes accompanied by non-lisp dependencies, or Franz style, where you have runtime executables + dumped images in separate files 04:44:46 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:45:18 run what without a password? 04:45:31 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:45:52 if it's a password from the 1990s, it's probably easy to crack. At the worst, DES crypted. 04:45:54 Fare: NS - it's a commercial tool, and while it is included on the Open Genera CD like Macsyma is, both need a "password" or essentially a license key 04:46:06 Fare: I was thinking of simply patching the logic out 04:46:16 can you backtrace your way into disabling the license? 04:46:39 not yet, but I think I should be able later on 04:46:56 reminds me of my good old days cracking software on Apple ][ or PC. I remember cracking Prince of Persia on PC, and adding infinite lives. 04:47:14 Or cracking Mathematica. 04:47:38 Mathematica sounds like something that I might end up looking up a crack for despite having a legal license 04:48:01 (read: I've had it with the way it thinks I moved software to different machine) 04:49:37 p_l: having all those extra checks in the code just makes it less reliable. 04:49:43 [F_F] [~IronPytho@187.149.46.34] has joined #lisp 04:49:43 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@187.149.46.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:51:47 [F_F] [~IronPytho@187.149.46.34] has joined #lisp 04:51:58 <[F_F]> hi 04:52:31 ... aaaand Mathematica lost activation again 04:52:51 some used some hardware key device - rainbow was one, I think. One needed to hook it up to the parallel port for example. If you would like to run that kind of software these days, would you have plenty of parallel ports around to stick some device in? 04:53:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:16 lsdf: they tend to have other dongles these days 04:53:34 p_l: Try to modify it or get a crack for that mathematica, perhaps it will help 04:54:09 jaimef: SBCL's is load-load-load code then DUMP the whole image, so you end up with the entire runtime and all your functions. The executable is then really just starting SBCL and loading all those functions again. 04:54:45 jaimef: I believe ECL's actually has a linking phase, so they can afford to ship smaller binaries. That answer is dubious, though. 04:54:52 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 04:55:22 jaimef: Oh, and Lispwork's does "tree-shaking", which simply means that if a function isn't used, it doesn't get shipped with the image. You can get pretty affordable image sizes that way (but commercial Lisps are expensive, aren't they?) 04:56:05 kristof: LW is a big one-time purchase, but has simple licensing. Allegro licensing makes my head spin... 04:56:07 jaimef: Really "shipping" wouldn't be as much of a "problem" in Lisp (I don't really think it's a problem, but. . .) if more people just used Lisp and it was reasonable to expect Lisp runtimes everywhere the same way that Java is everywhere 04:56:25 (and SCL is essentially the same as CMUCL when it comes to delivery, afaik) 04:56:30 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:56:32 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.136.176] has joined #lisp 04:56:32 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.136.176] has quit [Changing host] 04:56:32 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 04:56:32 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 04:56:38 p_l: I don't know about Allegro's licensing but I know that they open sourced quite a fair bit of their code, which is cool :) and it's under the (L)LGPL, too! 04:56:43 <[F_F]> why is progn((FunctionA) (FunctionB) (FunctionC)) different from (defun all () (FunctionA) (FunctionB) (FunctionC) ) (all) 04:57:00 kristof: wouldn't help, FASLs and images tend to be tied in very specific way 04:57:08 <[F_F]> Oh never mind, progn spits out the last output from FunctionC 04:57:17 p_l: we should all be using SBCL then! 04:57:49 [F_F]: there is also prog1 to return the functionA, and prog2 to return functionB , progn runs them in sequence, returning the last one. 04:58:22 p_l: At the very least, you could simply ship source files. :) 04:58:34 <[F_F]> lsfd: must everything always return something? 04:58:49 <[F_F]> cant there be somethinkg like noreturn((funA) (funB) (funC)) 04:59:11 Welcome to expression based languages. 04:59:11 [F_F]: I doubt that everything must, but I need to run now 04:59:27 kristof: SBCL won't load FASLs loaded by different image etc. 04:59:36 [F_F]: There are lots of functions that side-effect the universe, launch the missles, and then return a meager NIL 04:59:37 [F_F]: direct unwanted shit to /dev/null, hehe 05:00:21 <[F_F]> lol 05:00:57 [F_F]: FORMAT outputs something and then returns NIL. Why do you need something to not return anything? 05:01:09 <|3b|> you can put (values) as the last form in progn if you want to make it obvious you aren't returning anything useful 05:01:16 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 05:01:22 [F_F]: You might get the effect you want if you keep things top-level. If something returns NIL, and nothing is acting as a function on that NIL, then who cares, right? 05:01:25 Fare: n.b. didn't you use to have a symbolics ivory-based lispm? 05:01:28 <|3b|> anything that tries to use the result will still see NIL though 05:02:22 [F_F]: Why do you not want to return something, anyway? What are you up to? :) 05:02:22 <[F_F]> so can I just do this (progn (funA) (funB) (funC) (NUL)) 05:02:33 ...Is NULL a constant in LISP? 05:02:37 <[F_F]> I come from imperative programming C# 05:02:38 <|3b|> if you define a function named NUL 05:02:52 <[F_F]> What is I want to just return NUL? 05:02:55 <[F_F]> if* 05:03:03 <[F_F]> NIL* 05:03:04 <|3b|> NULL is a type, NIL is constant, with value = NIL, which is of type NULL 05:03:15 <|3b|> just put NIL if you want to return NIL 05:03:25 <|3b|> NIL evaluates to itself 05:03:34 <[F_F]> (progn (funA) (funB) (funC) (NIL)) <-? 05:03:38 <|3b|> PROGN returns the result of evaluating the last form 05:03:42 <|3b|> (progn ... NIL) 05:03:44 [F_F]: NULL is also a function that returns T if the arg is NIL and NIL otherwise (might as well be called NILP) 05:03:48 <|3b|> NIL is not a function 05:03:49 although NILP sounds dirty 05:03:51 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:04:18 <[F_F]> ok, so (progn (funA) (funB) (funC) NIL) <-? 05:04:51 <[F_F]> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aNhkzkd_Yww/TS9AHCoHBsI/AAAAAAAAAEw/zd6jfW6hJAo/s400/progn-progn-everywhere.jpg 05:04:55 <[F_F]> =D 05:04:56 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 05:05:02 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:05:22 [F_F]: It would help if you explained what you were trying to do in what scenario. Statements are more common in imperative leaning languages like C# but end up having good value-returning equivalents in Lisp (the best example I can think of LET) 05:05:36 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:06:11 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:19 *|3b|* thinks IF is a better example, compared to if vs :? in C-like languages 05:06:21 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 05:06:28 <|3b|> or ?: or whatever it is 05:06:39 <|3b|> "the ternary operator" 05:07:17 Fare: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9540080/screenshots/yui/2014-01-03_05%3A06_1366x768.png <--- btw, current state of getting LispM to work 05:07:31 might have something to demo to people at warsaw hackerspace :) 05:07:38 p_l: were you the one talking about getting a USB adapter for the Symbolics keyboard? 05:07:42 <[F_F]> I am just messing around with Lisp, I want to do something like funA(opens program A) funB(turns up the volume) funC(opens the cd drive) NIL 05:07:50 Oh, an emulator 05:07:55 p_l: how did you come across this? 05:08:22 kristof: long time ago - I was thinking (still are) of getting a Symbolics keyboard from one of former Symbolics support companies in UK, and hooking it to my newer computer 05:08:41 kristof: as for the emulator, it's the infamous snap4 generated from elusive VLM2 sources 05:09:02 [F_F]: you will have to call foreign functions to do that, CFFI can be used 05:09:07 [F_F]: Is the chain of functions A through C toplevel? 05:09:40 <[F_F]> what do you mean with toplevel? 05:09:59 <[F_F]> I am thinking imperative, like do A, then to B, then do C, lastly return NIL 05:10:12 <[F_F]> does (eval) do that? 05:10:35 [F_F]: If you have something like (DEFUN launch-missiles () (progn (funA)(funB)(funC))) and then write (launch-missiles) then it doesn't matter what funC returns, it just returns and... poof, nobody cares 05:10:39 stuckie [~stuckie@88.208.208.174] has joined #lisp 05:10:43 [F_F]: how much have you read about using Common Lisp 05:11:14 [F_F]: have you checked out Practical Common Lisp http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 05:11:22 <[F_F]> Yes, I just did 05:11:26 Good, good 05:11:36 <[F_F]> I had been readin LISP 15 hours ago 05:11:37 Work through that, and I think your confusion will dissipate 05:11:44 <[F_F]> I am trying to do my best to keep up 05:11:47 ...you need some sleep :P Happy New Year! 05:11:57 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:24 [F_F]: I think your confusion lies mostly in that you're worried what FunC might return; but you will inevitably structure your program in a way that you will not care what it returns if it is side-effecting 05:14:19 <[F_F]> normaly on C# I do a public void DoEverything() function 05:14:34 <[F_F]> Why can't I just return Nothing on a Language called List Processing? 05:14:43 [F_F]: By the way, think of top-level like... being on the bottom of the stack! Stuff higher up in the stack returns to stuff below, right? So the return value keeps getting thrown down and down, but if you're at the bottom of the stack, who cares what you're returning? 05:14:57 -!- stuckie [~stuckie@88.208.208.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:47 p_l: I know the machine itself is legal but the operating system itself should be less legal than that :) 05:15:52 *virtual machine 05:16:00 kristof: the operating system is actually in limbo 05:16:10 <[F_F]> kristof: so I should make FunA call FunB and FunB call FunC? 05:16:44 p_l: What do you mean in limbo? As far as I can tell, some shady remnant of Symbolics still does contracting work for random people but that's about the extent of their operations. 05:17:15 kristof: nobody afaik can say anything, the one person who still sells it and does support reacted only by commenting on the torrent congratulating people on excellent choice 05:17:45 [F_F]: an empty (values) is an acceptable nothing return 05:18:02 from what I heard, there is no one with enough claim to be able to relicense it properly or anything, nor is there a clear cut way to call it abandonware 05:18:11 but I am unsure why you should actually care in the example you talked about 05:18:17 [F_F]: This would be more demonstrable if you gave a scenario you would theoretically program. For instance, in your previous example, you might write 05:19:26 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:19:29 [F_F]: (defun tasks () (progn (open-program 'A) (setf 'volume 9000) (open-CD-drive)) 05:19:37 ...there is another closing paren there 05:20:30 [F_F]: And then somewhere else in your program, you might write [i'm making up some syntax and functions here] (onclick (tasks-button) (tasks)) 05:21:41 kristof_ [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 05:21:44 akbiggs_ [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:21:48 p_l: yes, I have a MacIvory in France, and an OpenGenera emulator on my laptop. 05:21:54 ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:06 ubii_ [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has joined #lisp 05:22:10 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:18 [F_F]: So I ask again. Why do you want to return nothing? Who are you returning nothing to? And why does it matter? 05:22:20 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:25 ... darn it, freenode 05:22:37 <[F_F]> but what about the "structure" ? 05:22:44 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:22:45 hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:22:53 <[F_F]> Lets say that "opening a program" is a complicated task 05:22:53 [F_F]: Structure of what? Your program? 05:23:00 <[F_F]> requiring like 20 lines of LISP code 05:23:05 <[F_F]> and so the other functions 05:23:14 -!- kristof_ is now known as kristof 05:23:28 <[F_F]> hold on, I will brb 05:23:32 <[F_F]> I need to restart my router 05:23:32 ubii__ [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has joined #lisp 05:23:39 p_l: wrt Mathematica, I was pissed when my old machine died, Mathematica demanded a new license confirmation on the new machine, and they refused to give me the confirmation because I wasn't a student anymore. 05:23:44 -!- [F_F] [~IronPytho@187.149.46.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:23:48 [F_F]: Here's the thing about LISP. You can take any scenario where you need to write 20 lines and abstract that into a keyword or two. Always. 05:23:49 oh bother 05:24:35 Guthur` [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:41 truly pissed me off. 05:24:42 It's not like I wanted a license for a new version of the software, but for the old version I had paid money for. 05:24:58 Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:58 -!- Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:58 -!- hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:24:59 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24:59 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24:59 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24:59 Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:59 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24:59 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:14 The loper-os guy always complained about there not being some analogue to Mathematica written in Common Lisp 05:25:34 I agree; Common Lisp would be a far better choice for symbolic manipulation and it would be tremendously faster, too 05:26:58 -!- ubii_ [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:09 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:27:28 kristof: a significant issue is that a lot of the important code in such programs these days is *not* symbolic 05:27:40 that's kinda why Macsyma lost to Mathematica and such 05:27:43 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 05:29:51 -!- akbiggs_ [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:01 p_l: Well, most of Mathematica's domain is symbolic computation; at least, the stuff it's good at. And yet the numeric computation is dog-slow; Common Lisp fairs just as well in the symbolic domain and I reckon that SBCL can blow Wolfram's cycle-eater right out of the water 05:30:10 *with respect to numeric computation 05:30:47 I think the same thing about R, too. Lots of people have been rediscovering the joy of fast, yet TERSE, ABSTRACT statistical programming with some recent libraries written in Clojure. 05:30:51 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:31:02 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:35 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 05:33:49 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:33:50 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:34:12 I'm off! When [F_F] comes back, someone show him a good macro example 05:35:02 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35:15 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 05:39:14 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:41:12 [F_F] [~username@187.149.46.34] has joined #lisp 05:41:14 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:41:21 <[F_F]> im back 05:42:50 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:45 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 05:44:10 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 05:45:27 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:52 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 05:47:12 -!- [F_F] [~username@187.149.46.34] has quit [Quit: [F_F]] 05:47:35 guest104 [~username@187.149.46.34] has joined #lisp 05:47:42 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:22 -!- guest104 [~username@187.149.46.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:05 ahem 05:51:43 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:54:16 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:14 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:09 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:35 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:57 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 06:03:51 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:24 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:04:37 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 06:05:39 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:06:09 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 06:07:13 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:13 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.36] has joined #lisp 06:08:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 06:10:00 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-nhaabcufrzratqev] has joined #lisp 06:12:54 p_nathan1 [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:23 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:15:15 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:15:51 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16:59 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:19:12 Phoodus [~user@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:52 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:24:00 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:25:03 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:25:35 kristof: You mean APL? 06:25:36 :-) 06:25:45 at least it's terse 06:25:57 -!- prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:30:51 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:15 -!- r_s [~r_s@S01067cb21bc97708.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:34:25 effy [~x@123.118.174.125] has joined #lisp 06:34:39 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:40:42 loke_: APL and its ilk were strictly designed to not have the same capabilities as the lambda calculus 06:40:49 At least I'm thinking of Baukus and his FP 06:41:07 I could give you the article where he says that if you desire (it's the one where he announces FP) 06:42:04 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 06:42:39 -!- effy [~x@123.118.174.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:25 effy [~x@123.118.174.125] has joined #lisp 06:46:22 Is FP related to APL? 06:46:22 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:52:41 i hope not! 06:55:03 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 06:58:40 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:29 wting [~wting@192.241.163.137] has joined #lisp 07:01:31 -!- wting [~wting@192.241.163.137] has left #lisp 07:04:15 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:05:29 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@host-2-96-19-224.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:29 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@host-2-96-19-224.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:05:29 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 07:06:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 07:06:20 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:06:30 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:31 kiuma_ [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:09:21 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-nhaabcufrzratqev] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:09:41 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-xoiacfierdsqclol] has joined #lisp 07:12:56 -!- joneshf-laptop is now known as joneshf 07:17:23 -!- joneshf is now known as joneshf-laptop 07:19:13 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-xoiacfierdsqclol] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:19:52 -!- zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:21:03 -!- effy [~x@123.118.174.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:23 effy [~x@123.118.174.125] has joined #lisp 07:22:43 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:27:05 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:27:37 I have a thorny problem interfacing C++ and Common Lisp and I wonder if any lispers have any helpful thoughts - or encountered anything like this before. 07:27:37 drmeister, memo from ogamita: you could have a look at the Objective-C bridge in ccl, with which it's possible to subclass in CLOS Objective-C classes. Basically it's a matter of providing a metaclass to do the right thing. 07:28:23 How should I deal with passing pointers back to C++ that then takes ownership of them 07:28:59 i think rust does neat things with pointer ownership, but i don't know jack about it 07:29:02 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:6813:a1c3:dfab:b797] has joined #lisp 07:29:28 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:30:03 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 07:30:30 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:31:23 I have a C++ class - I derive a new class from that C++ class in Common Lisp. A C++ function calls Common Lisp code that uses "make-instance" on that derived class and I returns the instance to C++ that takes ownership of it. Now I have a problem. I still have the pointer in Common Lisp that will be deleted when the GC is ready to delete it. In the meantime however the C++ caller deletes it - crash! 07:32:43 I'll investigate rust pointers. 07:33:27 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:34 How about having the destructor invalidate the CL pointer? 07:34:20 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:6813:a1c3:dfab:b797] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:34:39 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:42 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 07:35:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:35:14 effy_ [~x@123.118.174.125] has joined #lisp 07:35:38 -!- crixus [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:35:50 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 07:36:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-230-231.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:36:07 -!- sellout- [~Adium@184-96-143-210.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:31 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.2] has joined #lisp 07:36:38 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:41 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:6813:a1c3:dfab:b797] has joined #lisp 07:36:41 Zhivago: the C++ destructor only has the C++ pointer. The Common Lisp wrapper is more complicated and that's what CL has. I could define a special operator that returns a raw C++ pointer and invalidates the CL wrapper in one step. Then the wrapper will hang around until it's GC'd but it will be flagged as invalid. 07:36:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:37:00 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 Well, you don't neccessarily need to couple those operations. 07:38:15 -!- effy [~x@123.118.174.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:27 If you have three objects -- the wrapper, an indirect pointer, and the object, then they should be able to co-exist reasonably flexibly. 07:38:46 The wrapper would hit the indirect pointer, which may be invalidated by the destructor. 07:39:03 The CL finalizer would deregister the indirect pointer with the C++ object. 07:39:24 The C++ object would invalidate the indirect pointer. 07:39:34 But that might be a bit heavy for your requirements. 07:40:05 Actually, it doesn't need to be a special operator - it could just be a function that invalidates the wrapper and returns a pointer that C++ will take ownership of. It would be a one-shot deal. 07:40:28 Fair enough. 07:40:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dwmxpiyplykpvjjr] has joined #lisp 07:40:30 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dwmxpiyplykpvjjr] has quit [Changing host] 07:40:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:41:06 Zhivago: That's an interesting suggestion but I'm interfacing with someone elses code - their code (Clang) expects a simple/direct pointer. 07:41:38 I'm using the Clang library and you basically have to read to code to figure out that they take ownership of all these pointers. 07:43:56 With the above suggestion, it is a simple pointer that they receive -- the destructor would have a private reference to the indirect pointer for the CL wrapper. 07:45:18 Hmmm, I'll think on that - it is my destructor that that gets called when they invoke "destroy". 07:45:35 Right. 07:46:21 And that destructor does have access to the wrapper through a weak-pointer. 07:47:22 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 07:47:42 That could work - thanks! 07:49:37 -!- ubii__ [~ubii@198.45.198.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:46 I just need to be able to indicate that a wrapper has become invalid so that any further use of it fails gracefully. That's great! 07:50:14 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:21 *drmeister* is off to bed and will re-evaluate this in the cold light of day. 07:51:01 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 07:51:12 nilsi_ [~nilsi@114.104.231.105] has joined #lisp 07:52:10 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-qujffvribhgmqsnk] has joined #lisp 07:54:51 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 07:56:24 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:56:30 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 07:58:44 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:45 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 08:07:07 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:09:08 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 08:13:27 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:52 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] 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[~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:39 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:59:09 shifty [~user@124-149-115-74.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:00:31 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:01:06 how do I re-evaluate j on each iteration in the following, to produce ((1 2) (2 4) (3 6)...)? (loop for i from 1 to 5 with j = (* i 2) collect (list i j)) 10:04:26 (loop for i from 1 to 5 for j = (* i 2) collect (list i j)) 10:04:36 ("for" instead of "with") 10:05:51 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:06:03 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 10:06:39 GuilOooo: ha, too simple. thank you. 10:07:47 you're welcome :) 10:08:01 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:27 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 10:08:40 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 10:08:40 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 10:15:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:46 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@114.104.231.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:47 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:17:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3C55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:05 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:03 lman` [~user@173.Red-176-83-58.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:07 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:22:12 -!- lman` is now known as lman 10:22:16 -!- lman [~user@173.Red-176-83-58.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:22:16 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 10:29:42 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:30:17 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:30:33 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:47 lman` [~user@173.Red-176-83-58.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:52 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:31:55 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:55 -!- lman` is now known as lman 10:31:58 -!- lman [~user@173.Red-176-83-58.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:31:58 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 10:32:35 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 10:36:39 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:6813:a1c3:dfab:b797] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:25 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:47 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:21 stuckie [~stuckie@88.208.208.174] has joined #lisp 10:47:48 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 10:47:57 Guthur [~user@118.210.76.156] has joined #lisp 10:48:15 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:50:27 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:52:19 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 10:52:36 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:53:13 Joreji [~thomas@128-183.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:49 BrianRice` [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:06 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 10:56:11 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:11 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 10:57:07 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 10:58:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:30 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:10 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 11:02:39 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 11:02:50 (case nil (nil 'a)) 11:02:54 Why is that nil? 11:03:23 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@97.Red-79-155-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:03:44 (case 'nil ('nil 'a)) ==> 'a 11:04:01 I see. 11:04:02 <|3b|> (case nil ((nil) 'a)) ? 11:04:04 noooo 11:04:05 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6098087/simple-lisp-case-statement-question-problem-comparing-to-nil 11:04:06 also 11:04:14 GuilOooo: this is so wrong 11:04:29 stassats`: I know 11:04:44 (case x ('nil 'a)) == (case x ((quote nil) 'a)) 11:04:49 yes 11:04:55 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 11:04:56 my point was that nil is actually a list, not a symbol 11:05:03 (case 'quote ('nil 'a)) => A 11:05:08 That point is also wrong. 11:05:08 aaaah 11:05:11 ok 11:05:12 thanks then 11:05:17 nil is a symbol, it is also a list. 11:05:30 my bad 11:05:34 It's a symbol, list and atom? 11:05:48 Well an atom because it's a symbol I suppose. 11:05:52 right 11:06:08 It's an atom because it isn't a form. 11:06:11 CASE doesn't evaluate its clauses 11:06:48 Zhivago: everything is a form 11:07:40 but atom is defined as (not consp) 11:07:41 Sorry, I meant compound form. 11:08:26 Which is what atom distinguishes between -- it's for dealing with s-exps. 11:18:23 enshei [~enshei@pD9577840.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:49 well, I read the clhs page for case and played around in the repl, and there's something I don't get 11:19:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@128-183.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:19:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140769 the (nil 42) clause is expanded to ((OR) NIL 42) in the cond after macroexpand-1 11:19:52 while all other clauses, like (a 13), are expanded to something like ((EQL #:G606 'A) NIL 13) 11:20:19 still in Korea? 11:20:30 <|3b|> try a clause like ((a b) 13) 11:20:38 ok 11:21:26 ooh, now that's clear 11:21:31 thanks |3b| 11:21:38 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.128.183] has joined #lisp 11:23:31 -!- Guthur [~user@118.210.76.156] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 11:23:37 Zhivago: "dealing with s-exps" I like the sound of that. I like languages that deal with sexps - it just sounds nice and shows how creative the people behind it are. 11:23:41 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:03 Guthur [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AC2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:15 what? 11:25:37 Almost as creative as Mexicans. 11:26:42 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:27:39 aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:29:11 stassats`: can you please change your nick? This one is highlighted in disgusting dark green color but the original one was highlighted with nice and shiny cyan. 11:29:18 s/in/with/ 11:29:29 no! 11:29:37 Ah, crap, so much typos. 11:29:43 Why not? 11:29:52 *lsdf* offers hitecnologys some Jack 11:29:59 -!- enshei [~enshei@pD9577840.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 11:30:24 hitecnologys: my body feels a bit sore too... have a drink and let it make you feel nice and warm 11:30:31 lsdf: go away 11:30:44 lsdf: too bad I don't drink. 11:30:54 stassats`: all right. 11:31:12 Guthur`` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:27 -!- Guthur [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:12 -!- treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.128.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:18 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@191.Red-88-5-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 11:40:31 how to kill/stop a program while its executing? 11:40:45 C-c C-c 11:40:48 in slime 11:40:56 C-g C-g 11:41:53 killall emacs 11:43:20 treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:25 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:43:40 theos: take a hammer and hit the machine 11:44:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:02 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.136.176] has joined #lisp 11:45:02 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.136.176] has quit [Changing host] 11:45:02 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:45:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-230-231.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:46:30 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:53 thanks 11:50:04 c-c c-c worked i guess 11:50:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:50:32 Other methods work as well, I guess. 11:50:50 C-g C-g didnt 11:51:14 -!- treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:51:38 Yeah, this one doesn't. 11:51:45 treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:15 -!- cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:26 pjb: have you tried it? 11:53:47 XxLocutusxX [~Zero@93-38-172-129.ip71.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:54:45 didn't. C-g C-g is to stop emacs lisp ; C-c C-c is to stop common lisp. slime is emacs lisp which calls swank which is common lisp. 11:55:23 I see. 11:56:39 -!- treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:08 i ran squares from 999999 to 99999999999999 just to see what will happen :D i guess curiosity killed the cat again 11:58:51 if you run inferior process, I think C-c is basically the prefix command. C-c C-C would be like sending one C-c to the inferior process, like shell, lisp interpreter or whatever. C-g and escape are the regular emacs get out of trouble keys... sort of like cancel. Do them multiple times, if in doubt. Of course, if you are talking about emacs - YMMV as you can customize all the keys. 11:59:41 11:59:44 i did C-c C-c C-c C-c C-c ... then clicked with mouse. then it stopped 12:01:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:02:04 treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:14 Damn, s/Cusiosity/Curiosity/ 12:04:04 theos: HELP m might help you to see the key-bindings of your current mode. Otherwise, if it's some inferior lisp process, or shell or something. Try intuitevly first the C-c + what you usually would send if you launched it from shell... If you run a shell from emacs for example and you launch a program, C-c C-z would put it in background, just like plain C-z would do it if you would interact directly. But it's all customizable, so it will be like you want it to 12:04:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-41-186.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:05:16 lsdf i see. thanks 12:06:10 -!- treyhan [~cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:05 theos: Use the help... it's self documenting editor. Like I mentioned "Help m" will give you nice clues about the current mode (hence the letter m). "help" means: "M-x help" or the key that youdefined help to be (I hate the C-h help myself, i need it to be erase, so I have something else and in teco emacs you have ^-_) 12:10:36 says : C-c C-c runs the command help-follow-symbol 12:13:06 theos: I was just talking about general rules about inferior modes, your mileage may vary of course. I do not know the details of slime exactly. But like you mentioned, it helped in your case. Now that you found this info, you might find some other useful combos defined there that you need. When in doubt about some key combo, you can check it with 'help k' (then you type the key and get an aswer about what it does). 12:13:54 lsdf ok. whats the command that stops the execution? 12:14:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14:21 so i can bind it to C-c C-c 12:17:16 yeah, you could bind it to C-c C-C or a lot of other combos... 12:17:42 theos: C-c C-c is already bound to the right thing 12:17:55 it obviously is only active in the slime repl 12:18:16 harish__ [~harish@175.156.89.73] has joined #lisp 12:18:20 stassats` alright. but it doesnt seem to be the command i need is it? 12:18:37 is/does 12:19:08 it's you who needs something, is it what you need? 12:19:59 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 12:20:52 theos: I think you are looking for slime-interrupt or something? 12:21:45 i need to stop the really long execution before it ends. is there a command for that? 12:21:55 theos: When you checked the help, you should had tried it from slime buffer, otherwise c-c c-c might be bound to a completely different key. You mentioned it worked for you, so I think in your case it might be all right already 12:22:51 theos: but however it is in your situation, you can bind it to whatever makes you feel comfortable. 12:23:37 theos: it's C-c C-c 12:23:43 aha! its bound to C-c C-b 12:23:45 Gooder [~user@60.24.167.126] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 that's in lisp files 12:24:04 oh :/ 12:24:10 theos: ahh.. .you mentioned C-c c-c runs help-follow-symbol - I bet you tried my advice from a wrong buffer. YOu can have diff combos in diff buffers and modes 12:24:48 lsdf i see. i tried from slime buffer. slime-repl 12:25:00 stassats`: See, you can figure it out. It's sometimes hard to know what is happening in someone else's emacs because it is so customisable 12:25:58 lsdf: it's hard to figure out when you first confuse people 12:26:16 C-c C-c is bound to help-follow-symbol in the help buffer 12:26:52 stassats`: sorry, it was not meant for you, I wanted to send it to theos, I mistyped and completion made your name in front. 12:26:52 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5025:5b20:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:37 apparently, both C-c C-c and C-c C-b work. or maybe they work because i keep pressing the combination :D 12:27:56 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 12:27:57 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:33 yes, they should both work in the repl, C-c C-b also works from lisp files 12:28:48 echo-area [~user@123.112.228.105] has joined #lisp 12:28:48 (ppcre:create-scanner "foo.*bar" :multi-line-mode t)  how do I tell cl-ppcre to include also linebreaks in a multiline match? (*ANYCRLF) doesn't work. 12:29:17 and when run from the lisp files, will try to kill the most recent thread, which is not necessarily the one in the repl 12:29:24 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:29:36 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 12:29:51 (loop) C-x C-e and C-c C-b will try to kill that new thread 12:29:55 Or maybe how do I set the dot-all option to have the dot match newlines as well? 12:32:11 antoszka: :single-line-mode t 12:32:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:32:45 stassats`: Kinda counter-intuitive, but works, thanks! 12:33:04 "Treat string as single line. That is, change "." to match any character whatsoever, even a newline, which normally it would not match." 12:33:25 Cool. 12:33:25 and "m Treat string as multiple lines. That is, change "^" and "$" from matching the start or end of line only at the left and right ends of the string to matching them anywhere within the string." 12:33:27 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:33:49 reminds me of my lisp "useful line of code" counter. 12:33:51 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host81-154-196-189.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:05 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:34:12 removes comments and docstrings, and reduces other strings to one line. 12:34:12 antoszka: that's all from man perlre 12:34:24 stassats`: OK, will look there as well in the future. 12:34:26 and removes empty lines. 12:34:43 stassats`: Didn't occur to me that single-line mode might have something to do with multiline things to match :) 12:34:57 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:21 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:31 Fare: sounds like a must have tool if you hire programmers and pay per line of accepted code. 12:35:47 I probably should export it as its own package: lisp-stripper 12:36:10 -!- XxLocutusxX [~Zero@93-38-172-129.ip71.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 12:36:18 Fare: sexp-stripper would be even better... 12:36:25 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37:15 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:37:46 ehu` [~ehu@62.140.132.30] has joined #lisp 12:38:10 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-176-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:45 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 12:39:09 If you pay per line of accepted code, you better have superstrict acceptance protocol. 12:39:51 Charge per line added, pay per line deleted. :) 12:39:54 Fare: docstrings are often the most useful lines 12:40:25 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:c81c:1f38:a99c:f3c9] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:58 dim: in a way, yes, in another way, no 12:41:19 it all depends on the content *and* the reader, so that escape any tooling 12:41:32 when you want to compare the growth of code itself (or the growth of doc itself), it's useful to be able to split the two 12:41:36 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:ccf5:d763:9abb:76ec] has joined #lisp 12:41:40 Fare: As a manager, one could then say... what if we remove a linefeed from here and here and let's agree that lines can be 2048 chars... see only 2 lines of code. Why are you asking som much salary? 12:41:44 *lsdf* laughs 12:44:36 https://github.com/fare/lisp-stripper 12:45:14 paying based on such measures creates bad incentives indeed. 12:46:29 There is a motivation related document that comes with emacs... it's about experiments with rats and so on who get a prize for a solution that they find. In short, I think the result was that getting paid for something reduced the creative way of finding a solution to a problem. It seems less fun to do so, or whatever. Search your emacs documents if you havent read it. It was motivation. something, I vaguely remember from the past... 12:49:21 Motivating people is an art of its own... For sure having _just_ a code line counter to evaluate someone would be a bad idea. It might be interesting for some manager, cause it feels it's easy to evaluate just by that. 12:49:45 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:ccf5:d763:9abb:76ec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:22 can you find a document that will help you stay on topic? 12:53:04 not at the moment, but I'll keep on trying. 12:54:38 hi Fare 12:57:11 Don't know how to REQUIRE SB-POSIX. --- the docs I'm finding mention SBCL_HOME... 12:57:54 yes, it should point somewhere where sb-posix can be located 12:58:08 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 12:58:51 so it might be that I've been lucky when testing because I did my tests within the same session where I did install SBCL from sources then, and that I then need to do something smart about it thereafter? 12:59:53 installing sbcl doesn't require setting up sbcl_home 13:01:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:02:55 dim: The INSTALL documentation should have enough information how to run it when you are inside the directory where you built it and what would be needed if you would like to have it installed somewheree else. At the very least, the INSTALL suggests you'll need sbcl and core. By default after compiling they are src/runtime/sbcl and core is output/sbcl.core (you can point the core with --core argument). This way you can test it first. Then you can install it to so 13:02:59 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:05:44 -!- Gooder [~user@60.24.167.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:46 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:06:06 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B36B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:55 dim: SBCL_HOME is mentioned in a situation, if you are installing to a non standard location (not sure, but perhaps not /usr/local would be considered non-standard). In that case compile it with --prefix=/your/non/standard/location 13:08:18 it's installed in a standard location 13:08:32 then I s-l-a-d from my own program, and package the resulting exe file 13:08:45 then the exe file is launched in another session and the require fails 13:08:54 and of course my VM is refusing to startup again 13:09:00 ahh... that sucks 13:09:03 good luck anyways 13:09:39 yeah thanks 13:09:44 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:b142:f8ac:cc33:20a3] has joined #lisp 13:09:58 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 13:10:43 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:11:41 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:12:07 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:14 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:09 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:23 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 13:13:23 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:18 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:28 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 13:18:24 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:57 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:21 vaporatorius [~vaporator@250.Red-88-5-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:13 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:23:36 Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:59 -!- harish__ [~harish@175.156.89.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:06 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.200] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 dnm [~user@184-77-202-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:17 I wonder if there's a way to install the proper env value within the executable itself 13:27:02 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 13:28:15 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:42 Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:17 zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 just load sb-posix 13:30:54 syamajala [~syamajala@vis227b.sophia.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 13:30:57 before dumping 13:31:40 that leaves asdf searching for sb-posix.asd for dependencies 13:33:22 Alfr [~Unknown@g225093138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:33:35 can I list the sbcl contribs the current image is using? 13:36:33 *modules* 13:37:22 harish__ [~harish@175.156.89.73] has joined #lisp 13:37:48 thanks, I was adding --require sb-posix --require sb-bsd-sockets --require sb-ext already 13:38:42 fe[nl]ix, hi 13:38:49 happy new year! 13:39:30 happy new year :) 13:39:38 nilsi_ [~nilsi@60.172.113.73] has joined #lisp 13:39:44 I'm up for the ASDF tutorial 13:40:59 ok, did you send me mail? Can you reply to the thread? If possible with time details? 13:41:18 Maybe I should have settled on UTC time windows for start of talk as the common language... 13:43:21 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-8-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:45:21 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.200] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:46:19 jbarker [~jbarker@70.88.219.233] has joined #lisp 13:47:20 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.200] has joined #lisp 13:50:32 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-8-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:00 galdor [~galdor@78.193.58.122] has joined #lisp 13:55:22 Joreji [~thomas@128-183.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 -!- galdor [~galdor@78.193.58.122] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:56:54 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:55 galdor [~galdor@78.193.58.122] has joined #lisp 13:57:45 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@60.172.113.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:50 -!- Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:00 Fare: yes, I think UTC is better 13:59:52 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 14:00:04 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 14:01:27 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:32 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 14:03:01 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 14:03:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wsatjyftdclyggwe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:03 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:03:29 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:04:36 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:13 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ofkaosjcbqrnhbkp] has joined #lisp 14:06:29 eudoxia 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[~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:59:58 [F_F] [~IronPytho@189.186.53.182] has joined #lisp 15:00:06 <[F_F]> Good morning 15:00:14 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:16 <[F_F]> (Good morning) 15:01:53 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 15:02:10 (format t "good morning~%") 15:03:15 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:18 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 15:04:22 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:04:24 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:05:16 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-206-96.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:06:13 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.205.22] has joined #lisp 15:08:35 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@host-2-96-19-224.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:49 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@host-2-96-19-224.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:08:49 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 15:08:57 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:09:40 (make-instance 'Morning :state 'good) 15:11:23 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@vis227b.sophia.inria.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:11:37 System.out.println("Good morning"); 15:11:41 Is that inflammatory enough? 15:11:45 (Please don't kick me out) 15:12:13 no, just as unnecessary as all the previous comments 15:12:31 That's an upgrade 15:15:06 <[F_F]> "Good morning" also works 15:25:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-63-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:50 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:30:24 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:30:35 karbak [~kar@198.211.96.131] has joined #lisp 15:30:55 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:32:15 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:42 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:38:00 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:41 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 15:44:38 p_nathan1 [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:04 '(Good morning everyone) 15:46:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:47:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:19 -!- Guthur`` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:16 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:37 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-qujffvribhgmqsnk] has quit [Read error: Connection 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I have nested-backquote issues. I want to write a macro-generating macro that yields a macroexpansion like: 17:30:09 (defmacro pump (bar bor) `(list ,bar ,bor)) 17:30:19 How do I do that? 17:30:24 (defmacro mac (name args) `(defmacro ,name ,args ...????) 17:31:39 -!- bassclide1 [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:48 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yoedzchujidxfctk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:58 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vxqmcvginfdyehvi] has joined #lisp 17:33:32 francogrex [~user@91.179.218.23] has joined #lisp 17:34:19 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:35:28 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:301c:ce89:28a0:368] has joined #lisp 17:36:08 resttime [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:37 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.218.23] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:38:38 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:40:04 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 17:41:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:41:50 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:24 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:43:57 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-63-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:45:27 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:41 -!- Patzy_ [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:46:47 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:28 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:16 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:21 cedr: (defmacro test (name args) `(defmacro ,name ,args ,``(list ,,@args))), maybe 17:49:45 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:08 it seems to work, wow 17:51:27 I'll try it in my code and report back 17:52:06 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AC2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:52 Google for "bowden quasiquotation in lisp", which should turn a paper that is a more precise guide to the topic than I could hope to be. 17:53:59 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:54:05 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:54:28 -!- effy_ is now known as effy 17:54:28 found it. The author is Bawden 17:54:42 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 17:56:12 That's the one. 17:57:11 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 17:57:46 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 Well, I haven't found a way to extend your example to do what I want. I want to generate 18:00:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.64.107.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:27 `(with-slots ((,a a) (,b b) (,c c) ...) ...) 18:01:41 given args = '(a b c) 18:02:02 I'll read the Bawden paper some more. 18:02:09 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 18:03:42 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:03:49 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 18:04:58 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 18:05:11 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:37 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:45 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:44 axion [~axion@static-71-245-156-232.alb.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:55 Hmm. 18:09:49 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:30 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:10:49 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 18:14:04 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:04 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:04 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 ebobby [~fms@189.170.17.62] has joined #lisp 18:20:04 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:21:22 minion: memo for Zhivago: That worked nicely - thanks. Now I can allow C++ to destroy pointers which invalidates the wrapper on the Common Lisp side - any further use of the wrapper on the CL side simply raises an exception rather than crashing. 18:21:22 Remembered. I'll tell Zhivago when he/she/it next speaks. 18:22:24 ggole: I gave up... It was easier to rewrite it without the inner backquote, even if it's ugly. Thank you for your help. 18:22:56 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:25:57 -!- scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:32:55 rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:05 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:03 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:36:14 jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39:04 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:20 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:43:22 bobbysmith007: lisp-unit2! 18:43:29 zimerilim_ [~rett@64.124.28.131] has joined #lisp 18:43:30 jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:32 cedr: I had to write a macro-generating-macro-generating-macro. 18:47:25 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:47:59 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:11 dim: what's the word on your cl-csv fork? 18:48:59 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:19 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-190-214.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 18:51:27 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AC2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:36 -!- cedr [~cedric@dsl-173-206-96-0.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:57:50 Eiroo [~other@188.162.65.19] has joined #lisp 18:57:52 hi 18:58:13 -!- fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: fp0] 18:58:40 francogrex [~user@91.179.206.91] has joined #lisp 18:59:19 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 18:59:26 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:30 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-236.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:54 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@unaffiliated/chibapet] has left #lisp 19:02:49 milanj [~milanj@109-92-127-249.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:03:43 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.129.20.197] has joined #lisp 19:03:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.129.20.197] has quit [Changing host] 19:03:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:03:55 -!- milanj [~milanj@109-92-127-249.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:55 lispm [~lispm@e177016218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:16 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:43 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:03 Shinmera: I bet once you get the hang of it, it's quite fun, no? 19:17:44 jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:18 this is a silly but profoundly helpful exercise, it's a question. suppose you have a keyboard missing the letter "l" and you want to evaluate the expression in repl: (let ((x 3)) (+ x 5)) can you do that using (code-char 108) and "stuff"? 19:18:20 lsdf: I'd rather avoid unnecessary complexity for the sake of my own sanity. 19:18:52 lsdf: So I wouldn't really say that triply backquoted things are 'fun'. 19:19:15 is it possible to specify default value to &optional arg? 19:19:44 Eiroo: (defun f (&optional (x 123)) ...) 19:19:54 H4ns: ah, thanks! 19:20:11 francogrex: (#.(intern (map 'string 'code-char '(76 89 84))) ((x 3)) (+ x 5)) 19:20:11 Shinmera: Yeah... less complexity, less things to break... BTW, there's a nice philosophical kind of document about complexity that you have read perhaps. It has haskell related examples... read it? If not, I can recommend it just for fun. 19:20:24 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:33 oops, 69, not 89 19:20:46 lsdf: I haven't done any Haskell, so probably not. 19:21:38 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:22:38 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:42 Shinmera: Do not worry, lisp programmers might find it funny too and it's basically a bit philosophical (relating to how complex you need to make things). http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html <= The evolution of a haskell programmer 19:22:46 *lsdf* laughs 19:23:16 I'll give it a read later, thanks 19:23:40 bike: very nice 19:23:42 or, of course, just #.(read-from-string (map 'string 'code-char '(40 108 101 116 32 40 40 120 32 51 41 41 32 40 43 32 120 32 53 41 41))). elegant, i'm sure you'll agree 19:23:56 what is the role of (#. I couldn't never comprehend it 19:24:04 clhs #. 19:24:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 19:25:28 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-107-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:58 I would confuse it would 'eval' 19:26:29 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:32 #. tells the reader to evaluate the next form and use that as the result of the read 19:27:25 Where is the best upstream for bordeaux-threads? 19:29:21 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:30:28 ok, I was not far with the intern but this #. was new to me... 19:32:08 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35:31 -!- prip_ [~foo@host59-126-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:10 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:40:51 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:17 in my package declaration i can declare something like "...(:use foo.bar.baz)..." is it possilbe to tp ise foo.bar.baz but jave it qualified like fbb:function-name? 19:42:37 for example in haskell i can "import qualified Foo.Bar.Baz as FBB" 19:46:17 clhs: make-package 19:46:20 that's a package local nickname, they exist but nonstandardly 19:46:31 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:46:47 morning 19:47:04 Starkey [~starkey@c-75-71-233-38.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:12 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:48:45 prip_ [~foo@host252-133-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:48:53 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:01 malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:41 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:48 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has joined #lisp 19:55:50 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:55:52 -!- cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-jhgkpvxsssfelzee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:30 Bike: Where can i read more about it and what implemetations support it/ 19:56:31 ? 19:57:33 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:57:38 milosn_ [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 19:57:54 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC97681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:55 sbcl supports it 19:58:00 dunno about others. 19:58:09 akenisuto [~akenisuto@HSI-KBW-37-209-74-126.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:13 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has joined #lisp 19:59:43 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:00 Is there a way to set a variable locally to a file (like being special-bound around LOAD for that file)? Without something cumbersome like wrapping the whole file in a LET? 20:00:18 if you're using asdf, then there's a mechanism for that. 20:00:38 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:01:00 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.206.91] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:01:14 foom: thanks -- I'm not asking clearly. I mean, is there any way inside a file, to set a variable (or otherwise convey some information about its context) without having it leak out? 20:03:45 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:59 Not directly, so far as I know. 20:04:30 If you want to look something up by its file, you can use *compile-file-pathname*. 20:05:10 define a variable at the start and undefine it at the end 20:05:11 You could set a symbol variable on the current package 20:05:34 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:01 *symbol property 20:06:04 blech, names. 20:06:15 rpg: Sometimes it might be complicated to hide things from yourself... 20:06:43 Oh, wait, I misunderstood the problem, never mind. 20:07:08 Eiroo: just google lisp package local nicknames or so on 20:07:34 cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-nhfhlqwcvoummbrc] has joined #lisp 20:07:49 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [] 20:08:19 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:08:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-21-198.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 I wish CL had something like MAKE-VARIABLE-BUFFER-LOCAL... 20:10:47 -!- dnm [~user@184-77-202-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [] 20:12:45 I want the programmer to be able to tell the compiler (or rather, in this case, ASDF) something about *this* system definition file. 20:13:08 setting and unsetting is very cumbersome and error prone. 20:13:26 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:301c:ce89:28a0:368] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:56 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:301c:ce89:28a0:368] has joined #lisp 20:14:11 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-168-23.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:15 -!- Eiroo [~other@188.162.65.19] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:21:53 hiato [~hiato@196-215-121-135.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:24:20 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 20:25:33 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:25:50 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:26:08 -!- klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:16 rpg: didier verna has a thing for file-local variables 20:28:32 Krystof: Thanks! I will look for that now. 20:29:12 I'm looking for a way a programmer can express "I know that ASDF has changed incompatibly and my system definition takes this into account." 20:29:24 That is a declaration that is of necessity local to a single file. 20:31:48 I see that Didier implements this using ASDF. Since this pseudo-declaration would be scoped within ASDF:FIND-SYSTEM, that would probably be ok. 20:31:51 rpg: can't you use #+asdf3 or something? 20:32:31 jasom: No -- what we are trying to do is to decide whether the programmer needs to see a warning about his/her use of an ASDF construct that has changed incompatibly. 20:32:43 oh 20:32:43 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B36B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:46 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:10 cnl [~pony@95.83.132.55] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:24 There is, alas, no way to distinguish between "I am using this construct whose behavior has changed and I know what I am doing," and "I haven't updated my use of this construct, and I will get an unpleasant surprise when I try to load my system." 20:34:34 So I wish ASDF to issue a warning unless the programmer indicates that s/he understands the change. Since one typically loads systems built by multiple programmers, the presence or absence of this warning is file-specific. 20:35:40 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:37:06 I really want a pragma, but I don't think CL has them (portably). 20:37:22 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 rpg: Warn by default with a label, that should you choose to disable this warning, do the following (uncomment this warning from this file or whatever). 20:37:53 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:07 lsdf: but the warning is in ASDF, not in the programmer's source, so the programmer cannot comment out a warning.... Also, just because you have fixed your library A doesn't mean the library B which you have gotten from github, has also been fixed. So this is not a global setting for your Lisp session. 20:39:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:31 I think changing the behavior of ASDF:FIND-SYSTEM is probably the best way to do this, but even that won't work if an ASDF OPERATION subclass (this is the problematic aspect) is defined outside of the .asd file. 20:40:49 rpg: hope you'll find a nice way. No way to get the programmers to digest a README before doing anything or something like that? Yeah, I understand it would be better if you could do it some other way. 20:41:34 lsdf: by analogy, ask yourself if you could get a programmer to find something in the changelog of make. I don't think so.... 20:42:24 plus, there are a lot of unmaintained libraries out there. How is the library *consumer* to know that the library provider needs to update, absent some load-time warning? 20:42:50 rpg: Yeah, I understand completely. Designing something to be user-friendly is not easy when you have different users with different expectations and needs. 20:43:39 When I'm dictator of the world, I'll make sure all lisps support user-defined pragmas, not just implementation-defined ones ;-) 20:44:19 thanks all for the help. Off to take up my 2nd job as school bus driver ;-) 20:44:26 rpg: Well, you are about to find out. Good luck. Sometimes the answer might just pop out of the head... I hope you won't miss it. 20:44:55 lsdf: thx. see you all later 20:44:57 rpg: Have fun. I'm also going out to relax and have fun a bit. Bye 20:50:21 is there anything that implements durations and/or intervals on top of local-time? 20:51:16 -!- hiato [~hiato@196-215-121-135.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: The great inequality of life: nothing > money] 20:53:18 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:39 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:55:26 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:12 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.17.62] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 20:56:29 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:56:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has joined #lisp 20:56:52 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:55 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:51 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:57:59 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:58:22 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has joined #lisp 20:58:45 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:53 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:33 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5025:5b20:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:44 samask_ [~samask@184.152.47.248] has joined #lisp 21:07:37 -!- akenisuto [~akenisuto@HSI-KBW-37-209-74-126.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:07:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:09:30 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:47 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:10:21 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:03 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:53 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A688EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-6.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:48 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:20:02 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-4-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:49 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:31 enn: I wrote a simple time-interval package on top of local-time 21:26:21 slyrus: oh, thank you, that looks like exactly what I need 21:26:56 cool. is it in quicklisp? 21:27:09 it seems that it is 21:27:22 oh, look at that. great! 21:35:14 Corvidium [~cosman246@97-113-7-228.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:25 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:37:58 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 21:38:23 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 21:40:32 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 21:41:17 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 21:42:20 I had a fasl loading fail because it was compiled in an environment with different features, requiring a manual selection of the recompilation restart (or worse if the error is automatically handled in another way.) Should I be using features in a way that avoids this sort of error, or building differently, or accept the occasional manual restarts during builds? 21:48:40 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-4-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:48:49 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:49:04 I don't see a way to use *features* productively without introducing the possibility for this sort of issue. I'm leaning towards thinking that I need to force recompilation more often than I realized. 21:50:54 dnm [~user@67-131-0-251.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:54 -!- Wukix [~user@173-228-55-74.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:15 Wukix [~user@173-228-55-74.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:24 vaporatorius [~vaporator@250.Red-88-5-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:28 hayyy 21:54:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:59 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-188.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 21:59:33 -!- CrazyEddy [~unalist@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:02:37 CrazyEddy [~crustate@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:05:56 vinid [~vinid@host4-4-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:07:12 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:59 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:15:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:28 -!- hugodunc` is now known as hugod 22:19:58 -!- hugod is now known as Guest82722 22:22:20 okflo [~user@62-47-207-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:23:09 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:25 -!- Guest82722 is now known as hugoduncan 22:24:12 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.245.254] has joined #lisp 22:25:17 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod` 22:26:23 -!- okflo [~user@62-47-207-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:02 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:43 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:30:01 joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:48 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:10 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:24 jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:41 joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:44 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-237.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:15 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-6.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:27 -!- lispm [~lispm@e177016218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 22:36:33 -!- jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:37:50 well, abcl is working great for my java needs. not so great for my lisp requirements... anyone gotten cl+j to work with sbcl, or have another approach for calling java from sbcl? 22:40:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:40:41 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:39 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 22:45:39 klltkr [~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 22:45:47 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46:40 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:46 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.31.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:59 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:48:41 -!- rtoym_ [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:51:55 slyrus: Can you trivially use your lisp stuff deployed on ABCL within Java? 22:53:10 jbarker [~jbarker@70-88-219-233-bisco-environmental-ne-ma.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:28 -!- Jini [~pidgin@195.112.102.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:44 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:48 -!- vinid [~vinid@host4-4-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:59:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.245.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:48 slyrus: what do you need to call from java? 23:00:01 rtoym_ [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-88-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:43 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:00:56 -!- rtoym_ is now known as rtoym 23:01:48 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:15 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: happening finished by timeout after 60818030 seconds] 23:02:43 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:00 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 23:03:19 slyrus 23:03:45 slyrus: Isn't there FOIL (or something like that) lying around unmaintained? Rich Hickey's pre Clojure thing? 23:07:30 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5025:5b20:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 23:10:19 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:13:05 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:05 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC97681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:27 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A688EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:23:23 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:47 Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:16 slyrus: I thought Jfli was that 23:24:50 but Jfli is lispworks only IIRC 23:26:28 ah foil was the successor to jfli and is supposed to be more portable 23:29:17 hmm, looking over the code, foil should be portable just using trivial-garbage 23:29:26 (int needs weak hash tables and finalizers) 23:30:38 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:55 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:31:27 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:27 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:32:23 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:19 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:34:25 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:46:19 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:16 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:50:03 redscare [~Adium@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:39 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:50:44 i would like to iterate over a list such that I can set the elements as I am iterating 23:50:48 is there a way? 23:51:19 i know i can iterate over indices, but that is inefficient... 23:51:37 iterate over the conses, and set their cars 23:52:15 is there a "lispy" way to do that? 23:52:45 loop for x on list, or mapl, i think 23:53:05 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:05 are cars the only way to directly access memory locations in lisp? 23:55:51 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 23:56:05 untrue 23:56:32 it's just that specific operations depend on implementation (when it comes to raw memory access) 23:57:02 though you have various forms that result in direct, non CONS-related memory accesses 23:57:09 redscare: just cons up a new list while you walk over the existing one 23:57:28 but for such iteration, yep, cons a new list