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[~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:25 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:57:29 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69.165.245.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:41 deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:04:28 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-144-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:04:38 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:43 Good morning everyone! 04:05:16 erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has joined #lisp 04:05:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:15:08 synacktic [~jordyd@99-177-65-98.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined 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[~guardian@58-7-47-231.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:31:14 I'm trying to remember name of package I used. It runs inside of repl with webserver, where you could browse packages were listed and could click on documentation. 04:32:20 that was something gigamonkeys wrote, don't remember the name though 04:33:51 mmaul: manifest 04:36:26 there's a few of 04:37:26 I think that might be it. 04:37:43 whoops, sorry, misfire:) IIRC think gigamonkey's was "manifest." 04:40:35 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.194.183] has left #lisp 04:43:28 Let me ask a question similar to (but somewhat different from) the one I asked yesterday: Suppose you have a Lisp implementation where the startup environment and the compilation environment are the same, and suppose your implementation and computer are fast enough that you can afford to recompile an editor buffer at every keystroke. 04:43:35 Then how much compilation would you do? 04:44:54 I am thinking, you don't want to do any side effects on the compilation environment with a buffer that is in constant evolution. 04:45:57 beach: I've used a JS editor that did syntax checking and then automatic recompilation only when the syntax checked, for a narrow purpose 04:46:30 Vivitron: Yes, I see. Thanks. 04:47:39 Vivitron: I don't know the details of the language, but I haven't seen the equivalent of "(eval-when (:compile-toplevel...) ...)" in JS. 04:48:56 beach: well, it was a narrow enough program to just restart on change. I'm considering my lisp files, I think a lot of them would behave quit well with frequent recompilation 04:50:54 Clearly (at least it seems to me), if your implementation could clone the startup environment, then there would be no harm in compiling as much as possible, perhaps stopping short of code generation. 04:56:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:37 OK, different question: Suppose you have an implementation in which the startup environment and the compilation environment are identical. How hard would it be to write a compiler that, instead of side-effecting the compilation environment, would register incremental differences to it while compiling an editor buffer? 04:57:54 It would mean writing custom versions of DEFVAR, (SETF FDEFINITION), etc, etc. 04:58:04 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:01:20 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 05:02:43 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:02:48 blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:22 Vivitron: Yes, I can see how the program itself would benefit from frequent recompilation, but perhaps the compilation environment would not. 05:05:01 alezost [~user@128-70-201-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:05:08 -!- harish is now known as harish_afk 05:05:58 beach: I'm not sure that I've ever kept a strong separation in my mind between compilation environment and running environment, even in lisp (where I have always thought of it as one environment being incrementally adjusted. I may have a hole in my lisp education) 05:06:43 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:07:37 Vivitron: Your model corresponds to how many implementations work. But the CLHS specifically allows for them to be separate. 05:07:43 erikc_ [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has joined #lisp 05:07:51 And I am thinking it is not a good thing for them to be the same. 05:08:03 Rather, it is permitted by the CLHS for historical reasons. 05:08:14 -!- erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:15 -!- erikc_ is now known as erikc 05:09:26 Vivitron: Notice that the context here is file compilation, i.e. using COMPILE-FILE as opposed to EVAL or COMPILE. 05:09:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:19 conceptualizing file compilation as incremental side effects seems weird anyway. you have to do things in order but the compiler is allowed to recognize functions out of order, bla bla bla 05:11:23 Bike: In what way is it allowed to recognize functions out of order? 05:11:48 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:59 Functions in the same file are in the same compilation unit, right? 05:12:06 Sure, yes. 05:12:51 But the conceptual model is still sequential evaluation of top-level forms (unless I have missed something). 05:13:17 the conceptual model is, yes, i just don't think that makes much sense. the compiler can use declarations and such from all over the same compilation unit, that sort of thing. 05:13:23 bike: yes, I account for that in my model, but I always considered the running program as the starting point. maybe I'm not so far off 05:14:21 Vivitron: That is correct. The compilation environment "inherits from" the startup environment if I remember the working from the CLHS correctly. 05:15:04 Vivitron: The more important question is: should the file compiler side effect the running environment, just by compiling a file? 05:15:36 Vivitron: The CLHS allows both possibilities. 05:15:58 I am thinking, it is best if it did not. 05:16:29 It shouldn't, but it's a pastille to cheap implementations. 05:16:40 yeah, beach said that already. 05:17:07 Loymoev [~loymoev@host-100-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 05:17:10 i guess what i'm saying is that i'd prefer some kind of declarative system for files-to-be-compiled so the craziness of eval-when wouldn't come up so much 05:17:15 beach: I think I'm starting to follow -- it would be convenient if it did not for speculative compilation at least 05:17:39 Vivitron: Yes, such as an editor buffer in constant evolution. 05:18:40 Bike: It seems to me that you are advocating not respecting the model imposed by the language definition. 05:19:01 oh, yes, i meant in magical future lisp, not anything cl-conformant 05:19:09 OK, I see. 05:19:11 at least not for cl:compile-file 05:19:35 beach: Is something like (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (import ...))'s behavior defined to affect both environments or only the compilation environment? 05:19:39 Different perspectives. I am still thinking within the CLHS. 05:19:49 Vivitron: it's implementation dependent 05:20:06 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:20:20 Vivitron: It affects only the compilation environment, but then, the compilation environment is allowed to be the same as the general global environment. 05:20:58 is that really how it's explained? that's even more confusing than i thought. 05:21:17 Bike: Unless I misunderstood something, yes, that's the explanation. 05:21:20 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:39 gosh. 05:22:15 Bike: To me, it makes a lot more sense that way, especially if you consider an implementation where the startup environment is cloned to create the compilation environment. 05:26:35 Anyway, thanks everyone for the input. 05:27:49 beach: I'm sorry my input turned into more of a derail, thanks for the explanations. 05:28:28 Vivitron: No need to be sorry. Your input was still valuable. 05:30:39 beach: I'll add one more thing: I believe I have slime-compile-and-load-file set to not load if there are compilation errors. I can't remember a time at which compiling and then not loading caused me grief. 05:31:32 I see. 05:33:03 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:01 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:42:38 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 05:44:31 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:48:51 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:51 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:48:51 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 05:51:31 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:52:48 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 05:52:51 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:12 -!- mmaul [~mmaul@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:45 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has joined #lisp 06:01:15 -!- harish_afk is now known as harish 06:01:16 seangrove [~user@cpe-23-242-158-173.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:03 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:03:49 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:04:56 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 06:05:16 Idea for a persistent separate compilation environment: Define a first-class environment in three levels. Level 0: the ordinary global environment. Level 1: a permanent level containing bindings of environment functions such as SYMBOL-VALUE, (SETF FDEFINITION) etc. Level 3: a linked list of differences introduced during compilation. 06:05:37 er, s/3/2/ 06:05:58 The functions in level 1 consult this environment in the order 2, 1, 0. 06:06:15 Then create a minimal compiler that uses this environment. 06:06:51 Unless I am missing something, this does not look too hard to me. 06:08:45 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08:49 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc08-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:09:04 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:09:09 -!- prip_ [~foo@host25-133-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:16:54 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 06:17:40 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:18:14 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:19:40 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has joined #lisp 06:20:48 prip_ [~foo@host198-121-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:21:15 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:21:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:31 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:37:06 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 06:37:34 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 06:40:42 -!- Ogion [~Ogion@203.Red-88-9-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:55:35 -!- sellout- [~Adium@97-118-174-24.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:09:04 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:56 -!- chenjf [~chenjf@59.34.22.217] has left #lisp 07:17:35 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.201.28] has joined #lisp 07:20:18 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.38.190] has joined #lisp 07:21:11 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:23:45 -!- zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:36:37 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:37:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 vaporatorius [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:52 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:45:32 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.201.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:15 Oops, I have been using the wrong terminology. The "compilation environment" is the one keeping compile-time information. I should have said the "evaluation environment" instead. 07:50:40 But it doesn't change any of the arguments. 07:51:50 In addition to a separate and persistent evaluation environment, we of course also need a persistent readtable. 07:52:57 -!- erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has quit [Quit: erikc] 07:54:57 -!- harish [~harish@124.197.68.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:20 motiondude [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 07:56:41 -!- motiondude is now known as motionman 07:57:55 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:05 lllshamanlll [~lllshaman@146.66.163.140] has joined #lisp 08:00:40 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-57-66.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:01:00 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:59 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 08:02:55 gmcastil [~user@70-59-6-146.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:22 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:12:27 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:13:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:18:42 Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:18:45 -!- gmcastil [~user@70-59-6-146.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:32 Ogion [~Ogion@62.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:45 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 08:30:32 morning 08:35:09 Hello splittist_ 08:36:48 splittist_: morning. 08:41:37 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has joined #lisp 08:45:50 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:50:15 -!- guardianx [~guardian@58-7-47-231.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:51:11 guzhou [~Thunderbi@219.133.170.82] has joined #lisp 08:57:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-63-55.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:04 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:41 Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:59:43 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has joined #lisp 09:02:59 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:29 cibs_ [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has joined #lisp 09:07:17 zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:00 -!- cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:11:02 -!- guzhou [~Thunderbi@219.133.170.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:11:17 guzhou [~Thunderbi@219.133.170.82] has joined #lisp 09:14:50 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:501b:e260:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:21:50 -!- zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:26:17 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:29:51 -!- guzhou [~Thunderbi@219.133.170.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:57 protist [~protist@98.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:41:45 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:45:11 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:49:39 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 09:52:22 Oh, CLiki is up! 09:53:04 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has joined #lisp 09:53:55 -!- protist [~protist@98.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:03 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 -!- zack-bitcoin [~zack@97-93-143-106.static.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:50 eddyluv1 [~eddyluv1@197.210.248.52] has joined #lisp 10:01:27 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:02:14 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.169.163.181] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 10:02:35 pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-210-92-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:08:23 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 10:11:02 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:11 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:36 pillton [~user@124-148-37-96.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:25:30 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-210-92-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 10:27:26 Guthur` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:57 -!- Guthur [~user@ppp118-210-78-230.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:33:11 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 10:33:36 *pillton* just released basic-binary-ipc (https://github.com/markcox80/basic-binary-ipc) 10:35:12 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-142-189.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:44:44 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:46:02 pillton: looks interesting. one thing I notice is that the indentation in the examples is misleading 10:46:20 adeht: I just noticed that too. Thanks. 10:46:47 cibs [~cibs@60-251-40-253.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:41 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-59-229.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:50:29 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1BE4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:35 -!- cibs_ [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:51:01 adeht: It is correct in the README file. 10:52:42 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:54:36 -!- cibs [~cibs@60-251-40-253.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:19 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:59:39 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:20 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05:00 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:15 -!- pillton [~user@124-148-37-96.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:13:51 -!- 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[~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 13:33:11 b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-73-88.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 13:33:45 -!- lllshamanlll [~lllshaman@146.66.163.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:32 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:39 -!- yeltzooo9 [~yeltzooo@162.243.110.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:39:59 could anyone explain to me what call-with-current-continuation does? 13:41:12 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@162.243.110.169] has joined #lisp 13:41:14 vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has joined #lisp 13:41:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:12 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@162.243.235.129] has joined #lisp 13:45:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:15 b80905: I bet a higher percentage of people in #scheme could. 13:45:24 call-with-current-continuation is not a feature of common lisp. 13:48:51 ggole [~ggole@124-148-91-84.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:49:38 Hello Xach! 13:49:46 Any interesting Lisp projects lately? 13:50:38 beach: I have been working full-time on Lisp since February, but not on a project I can discuss much. I hope to do some more interesting stuff with Quicklisp and Usenet archives soon. 13:51:03 I see. 13:51:54 nice 13:55:21 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 14:00:09 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:03:21 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 14:05:57 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 14:07:52 wohonajax [~wohonajax@108-231-174-248.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:41 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-162-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:11:53 -!- b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-73-88.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has left #lisp 14:11:58 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-188-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:20 Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has joined #lisp 14:14:45 beach: are you going to any of ILC, ELS, or ECLM? 14:15:43 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.34] has joined #lisp 14:15:53 I haven't decided yet. 14:15:55 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:09 But yeah, probably. 14:24:14 -!- guardianx [~guardian@58-7-47-231.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 14:24:35 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:28 I am certainly going to ILC and possibly going to one of the other two. 14:25:49 Excellent! 14:26:15 I can't even remember where they take place next time. 14:27:20 els is in paris, eclm is in berlin 14:27:46 OK, that's easy. What about ILC? 14:28:36 Montreal. 14:28:37 Nice 14:29:02 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:19 I might even submit something to it. 14:30:10 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:24 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:35 Xach: I guess Montreal is a bit closer for you. 14:30:37 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-56.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:51 alezost [~user@128-70-201-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:31:19 Oh, Xach! 14:32:14 Uh, oh! Sounds like you had better hide. 14:32:37 beach: yes. i drove to it for OOPSLA in 2007. maybe 550km or so. 14:33:10 hmm, only 450 if I use the proper route 14:33:31 Still, a long drive. 14:34:54 Is the speed limit still 55mph? 14:35:18 65 is not uncommon. 75 on some rural highways. 14:35:42 That helps a bit. 14:37:55 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 14:39:40 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:40:13 synacktic [~jordyd@99-177-65-98.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:17 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@99-177-65-98.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:40:17 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 14:41:20 If I can figure out what to do about presentation types in CLIM3 soon, I could submit a paper about it. 14:42:34 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:40 -!- ozialien_ [~ernest@ip98-167-234-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:53 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:45:31 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 14:45:57 Someone who knows how to write documentation could write a comprehensible one for ASDF and submit it. 14:46:10 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 14:46:14 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 14:46:21 dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:48:23 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:48:58 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:45 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-31-160.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:21 enupten [~neptune@117.192.94.71] has joined #lisp 14:59:01 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:59:20 -!- Guthur` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:13 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:51 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:05:52 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:06:03 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-31-160.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 15:14:47 -!- strobegen [~Adium@62.33.153.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:55 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 15:19:50 Finally a clear illustration of how to implement CL's load - http://imgur.com/BwRNGBj 15:25:56 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has joined #lisp 15:25:59 I don't see the connection really, even if it's impressive. 15:26:20 LOAD is trivial to implement. The most complex part is in handing the parameters and results as specified. 15:28:45 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1BE4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@117.36.89.251] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:31:45 Hello pjb. 15:31:51 What's up? 15:33:51 That's some careful timing right there. 15:36:16 Hi! 15:37:02 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:18 Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has joined #lisp 15:37:24 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.38.190] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:39:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:41:14 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:43:21 -!- capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:40 -!- seangrove [~user@cpe-23-242-158-173.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:44:39 the effect of load on the running program's threads is amusing, particularly around the CLOS dispatching, not sure I'd say trivial 15:48:07 Well, that would be the effects of EVAL in threads. 15:48:20 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:04 capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 The problem I've found with LOAD in a running system is that DEFCLASS removes all the accessor methods and then adds them again. If, instead, it were to just replace them, there would rarely be a problem. I haven't investigated whether the CLOS spec mandates that behavior or if it would be OK to change how my implementation does it to fix the problem. 15:56:13 Well you can always define your own operators, shadowing those of CL. 15:57:09 LIkely to be a common problem, so if it's not illegal to do so, I'd prefer to just make it replace the methods without ever removing them 15:57:44 Will likely become a high enough priority to investigate and fix sometime in the near future 16:05:15 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:05:38 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:05:54 it's specified that method redefinition removes then adds from the generic function 16:06:36 Bummer 16:07:04 Maybe I can arrange it that calls to the GF during that time from another thread block until the operation is complete 16:07:13 That's outside the spec, so should be legal 16:13:05 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 16:16:36 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:29 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-57-66.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:50 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-xzxdssvugrzuqlua] has joined #lisp 16:20:00 doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has joined #lisp 16:22:00 -!- antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:24:50 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:55 seangrove [~user@cpe-23-242-158-173.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:30 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 16:39:21 nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:23 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-127-72.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40:39 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:51 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:42:27 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 16:43:27 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:56 -!- scoofy [scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:54:51 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:55:30 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:55:57 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.94.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01:30 sohail [~sohail@69.196.154.168] has joined #lisp 17:01:30 -!- sohail [~sohail@69.196.154.168] has quit [Changing host] 17:01:30 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:02:10 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:33 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:15:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:20:35 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:51 -!- Loymoev [~loymoev@host-100-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has left #lisp 17:23:10 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:27 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 17:27:47 zack-bitcoin [~zack@2002:615d:8f6a:0:e5e5:e65:8c9b:c520] has joined #lisp 17:33:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:39:01 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 -!- seangrove [~user@cpe-23-242-158-173.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:33 ckoch786 [~ckoch786@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:57:48 patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:33 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:53 jmbr [~jmbr@70.114.144.248] has joined #lisp 18:08:30 Good evening! 18:13:24 lllshamanlll [~lllshaman@146.66.163.140] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 Hello OldContrarian. 18:18:17 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@70.114.144.248] has left #lisp 18:19:13 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:22:09 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 18:24:15 -!- ska` [~user@58.8.218.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:25:18 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.129.21.91] has joined #lisp 18:25:18 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.129.21.91] has quit [Changing host] 18:25:18 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:30:58 seangrove [~user@cpe-23-242-158-173.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:07 Bike_ [~Glossina@71.222.125.128] has joined #lisp 18:33:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@216-161-93-29.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:33:38 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:34:13 -!- milosn [~milosn@85.64.17.152.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:35:04 milosn [~milosn@85.64.17.152.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:53 Oejet [~Oejet@unaffiliated/oejet] has joined #lisp 18:37:31 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:37:43 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-165-174.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71.222.125.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:26 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:39:49 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:01 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:15 erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has joined #lisp 18:42:44 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz] 19:50:52 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-96-207.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:51:40 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@c-98-236-40-212.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-46-43.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:31 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:55:06 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 19:55:24 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:55:25 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:04 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:58:44 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-200.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:27 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:59 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:18 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@c-98-236-40-212.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 20:04:37 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:44 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 20:06:13 doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 Quadresce [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:11:12 Is there an implementation of a variation of symbol-macrolet somewhere that doesn't do recursive substitution? 20:12:35 example: (let ((x #(1 2 3))) (symbol-macrolet-1 ((x (aref x 1))) (list x 'x (let ((x 1)) x)))) ==> (2 X 1) 20:14:22 no, that would totally screw with a lot of semantics 20:14:30 Why 20:16:00 It definitely seems like the right kind of abstraction mechanism for some linear algebraic macros I was trying to write 20:16:22 Because the macroexpander would have to know to expand only this kind of form only once. 20:16:26 Oh hey OldContrarian. Ever get quicklisp going? 20:16:36 I'm not sure why you want this anyway, can't you just change names? 20:18:00 -!- dkordic [~danilo@79-101-172-111.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:18:23 -!- seangrove [~user@cpe-23-242-158-173.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:18:37 Bike: the use case is to write some macros that expand to efficient loops that operate on multiple arrays elementwise. Yes it would be possible to make a "binding environment" where the user has to specify a special name representing an individual element of each array, but it seemed a lot more elegant to just use the array name itself, and expand that into an aref call 20:19:07 you could x-element or something instead of x. 20:19:43 -!- rk[zzz] is now known as ryankarason 20:19:48 yes the "anaphoric" style is possible to where names are automatically generated, but it still didn't seem quite as good 20:20:57 or a macro (foo x) that expands into whatever. 20:22:11 I guess I'll look into the possibility of writing my own substitution routine with a code walker or something 20:30:20 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-96-207.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 20:32:15 -!- eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:31 -!- patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:40:42 serichsen [~user@x2f02416.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:48 Good evening! 20:41:13 bongiorno 20:41:19 -!- Quadresce [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:45:05 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:07 -!- karbak [~kar@198.211.96.131] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:17 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:48:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:48:36 tmv [~tmv@189.154.145.105] has joined #lisp 20:54:29 -!- tmv [~tmv@189.154.145.105] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:55:57 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:27 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 20:56:51 -!- antonv is now known as Guest41406 20:56:59 -!- Guest41406 [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:19 Corvidium 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[Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:59:36 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@46.78.27.85] has quit [Quit: iqool] 22:00:50 Corvidium [~cosman246@nat-7-165-91-12-178.tamulink.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:01:35 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:03:03 Quadresce [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:03:11 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1BE4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:14 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:34 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 22:04:48 Any tips on implementing this fabled SYMBOL-MACROLET-1 would be appreciated. I don't actually have an internet connection, which will likely make it hard to get libraries and such. 22:05:07 lman [~lman@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 22:05:24 iqool [~user@46.78.27.85] has joined #lisp 22:05:46 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 22:06:08 it's really not possible. you'd have to write your own evaluator and compiler. 22:07:32 Quadresce: I'm not seeing why something like (let* ((x #(...)) (#1=#:x x)) (symbol-macrolet ((x (aref #1# 1))) ...)) wouldn't fit the behavior you are looking for 22:07:45 Bike, then I really need to understand why 22:08:03 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:09 Maybe calling it a symbol macro is wrong here 22:08:33 Quadresce: because macroexpand is called on everything, and macroexpand macroexpands as much as possible! 22:08:43 Yes I understand that 22:08:57 you apparently don't if you don't get why your -1 is impossible. 22:09:03 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:09:33 Bike: yes I do understand that. Maybe you think I think the implementation has to use symbol-macrolet 22:10:06 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 22:10:27 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:11:25 Vivitron, let me think about that for a moment 22:11:40 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-96-207.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:12:36 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-11.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:33 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:10 Vivitron: I think that is probably the right thing to do. 22:14:11 -!- OldContrarian [~OldContra@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:17 OldContrarian [~OldContra@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:14:25 -!- OldContrarian [~OldContra@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:42 OldContrarian [~OldContra@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:15:14 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:22:27 (or (values t 2)) => T,2 but (or (values t 2) (values t 3)) => T and finally (or (values t 2) (values t nil)) => T . Could someone explain me, whats going on here? 22:22:52 hefner [~hefner@c-68-33-51-108.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:53 iqool: by default most operators only take the first value and igore the rest, you need to use the multiple values machinery to catch the others (e.. multiple-value-bind, nth-value, etc) 22:24:13 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:24:24 -!- tmv [~tmv@189.154.145.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:27 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@nat-7-165-91-12-178.tamulink.tamu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:00 iqool: ah, on closer reading: this behavior you observed with or is actually in the spec. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_or.htm 22:29:02 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 22:29:27 well, i expected OR to give me values of the subexpression that returns T 22:30:00 thanks, i will read and find out 22:30:12 that would mean it'd have to do multiple-value-list or something on all of them 22:30:28 yes, thats true.. 22:31:02 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-200.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:19 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has joined #lisp 22:38:38 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:57 Bike: here's what I came up with that at least works with my test case. (It generalizes to several bindings too, which I've written.) http://i.imgur.com/WiKxnWA.jpg 22:41:07 Sorry for no paste bin. I'm on a mobile phone. 22:41:56 tmv [~tmv@189.154.145.105] has joined #lisp 22:46:49 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:49:03 -!- patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 22:49:20 anyone know of a good link for installing/compiling CLISP from source without root access? 22:49:42 isn't clisp abandonware? 22:49:48 No 22:49:58 It's just stable 22:49:59 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-11.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:07 what is the term abandonware? 22:50:26 it is stacked since 2010-07-07 22:50:27 abandoned software 22:50:34 ah i see. 22:50:38 CLISP has bugs that are fixed in version control but there hasn't been a release in several years, and I don't think version control has been updated much lately either. 22:51:00 you probably just need root for installation so you can put it in /usr/bin/ or such 22:51:04 ah well i do not really have issues with CLISP. i particularly like it 22:51:13 i recently tried SBCL and man do i not... LOL. 22:51:17 ryankarason: where do you want to install it? 22:51:29 SBCL is much better than SBCL in many important respects. 22:51:35 better than CLISP, that is 22:51:59 i think clisp don't even has threads 22:52:10 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-11.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:13 Xach: so two things, first is a place where I do have root privbtkk[B[A[B[B[B[B[Bgjf jalskdfufckingnET 22:52:19 sorry net went down 22:52:31 okay so i agree no threads in CLISP sucks 22:52:41 however, CLISP shell is soo much better in my opinion. 22:52:52 Doesn't SLIME obviate that? 22:52:53 it uses GNU readline which i am particularly fond of 22:52:55 Portability, good REPL, etc 22:53:02 who wants the shell having slime? 22:53:12 the debuger output of sbcl is a nightmare to me :( 22:53:13 err, please do not hate me, but i do not use slime 22:53:23 *ChibaPet* gasps. 22:53:26 in my opinion CLISP is a nice replacement for bash 22:53:39 lman, not everyone uses slime, and not everyone has easy access to slime, especially when developing runtime environments 22:53:41 and i like have vi-like readline in CLISP 22:53:57 debugging runtime* 22:54:29 ryankarason: just use slimv and it is much better than clisp can ever dream 22:54:41 hmm maybe 22:54:44 ryankarason, clisp is "interesting" 22:54:54 it is good for a shell imo 22:55:15 lman also not everyone wants to fire up emacs to do a few interactions 22:55:18 Xach: well there are two places i want to install it. both are at work. one is a centos box and the other is a redhat box 22:55:24 *Fare* uses SLIME + inferior-shell rather than the Unix shell for scripting. 22:55:28 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-89-33.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:29 imo vim > emacs. 22:55:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:41 I haven't started using that for everyday interaction, though. 22:55:41 i prefer to have a split screen in tmux of clisp and vim 22:55:46 maybe we should focus on the install help. 22:55:52 -!- knob is now known as Guest61885 22:56:08 -!- knob3212 is now known as knob 22:56:25 the centos box i do have root privledges (personal work box), but i can not seem to find CLISP in the repos 22:56:32 at home i use gentoo 22:56:42 not really familiar with yum and such anyhow 22:56:48 I would say CCL is nicer than SBCL as a portable implementation with a readily available bearded old man to fix the bugs. 22:57:10 then the redhat box, i technically *do* have root priv on, but it is a shared box, so i would rather install it locally without root 22:57:15 portable to platforms that matter, that is 22:57:28 Quadresce: just run: emacs -nw --eval "(slime)" 22:57:53 well, i would consider SBCL, if i can get it's shell to be like CLISP 22:57:55 lman, I find that to be busywork, especially if I want to do unix interactions 22:57:57 but SBCL will squeeze more juice out of your box. 22:58:13 ryankarason: I think you could use the --prefix option of configure in that case. 22:58:22 Quadresce: for doing unix interactions run bash 22:58:42 lman: for doing unix interactions, use inferior-shell:run within SLIME 22:58:43 clisp as a shell > bash ;) 22:59:02 inferior-shell > clisp 22:59:05 Xach: --prefix for what? 22:59:07 ryankarason: Argument though vigorous repetition? :) 22:59:34 ChibaPet: its like hypnotizing 22:59:44 ;) 22:59:49 clisp doesn't do shell redirection properly, for gossake — or exit status 22:59:57 or background jobs 23:00:05 you can & 23:00:33 and what is "proper redirection" 23:00:35 how do you a=$(b) ; c=$? in clisp ? 23:00:54 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:54 haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 23:01:16 so the first thing to do is (defun $ (cmd) (ext:run-shell-command cmd)) 23:01:28 doesn't help 23:01:51 a=$(b) means get the output from running b in variable a 23:01:54 then (defparameter a ($ b)) 23:02:11 (setf a (inferior-shell:run `(,b) :output :string)) 23:02:16 how much faster could be SBCL than CLISP for running Hunchentoot? 23:02:38 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:02:53 sbcl seems good for actually running lisp programs, but i like CLISP for interactivity. 23:02:54 ryankarason, ext:run-shell-command won't get the output for you 23:03:04 Fare: does it not 23:03:13 hmm, i know there is a command that returns evertyhing a strings 23:03:16 ryankarason, and coaxing it into a variable is a tough job 23:03:22 a multiple value list of strig 23:03:34 ryankarason, it's called inferior-shell:run, or uiop:run-program 23:03:44 hmm, i never used taht 23:03:57 unfortunately, i am not on the box at the moment that i set it up before 23:03:58 and it's portable to all CL implementations except Genera 23:04:20 and i accidently redirected a file to itself deleting my defintion on a remote box :`( 23:04:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04:35 inferior-shell:run can run commands on remote hosts, too 23:04:46 i will look into inferior-shell, thanks 23:05:27 Fare, out of curiosity, do you use an Emacs-based mailreader? 23:05:55 not right now 23:06:00 anyhow, does anyone have instruction for compiling clisp without root. even sbcl requires another lisp interpreter which my work machine does not have. 23:06:11 Problem with Emacs is, it's an OS that's bad at multiprocessing. 23:06:21 Mm, I've heard this often. 23:06:55 ryankarason, can't you bootstrap from binary? 23:06:58 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:00 This will improve with the mythical move to guile. 23:07:01 and you don't need root to compile clisp 23:07:36 I'd like to view it as an environment to run client interfaces to processes on an OS good at multitasking, but then I end up trying to use stuff without external dependencies so it's easier to move between systems 23:08:09 ryankarason, cd ~/src/clisp ; ./configure --prefix=$HOME/local/stow/clisp 23:08:40 Fare: ah thank you. 23:08:47 that is simple. 23:09:09 also i feel like i have been truely enlightened 23:09:35 ChibaPet, I got tired when using GNUS was stopping all my editing waiting for the network. Then I briefly was using two emacsen, but I was frustrated by writing things in the "wrong" emacs and difficulties copy/pasting between them 23:09:35 i always have trouble running configure and such always asking for root. 23:09:51 stow is a good program — I recommend it 23:09:53 nice to know i can just give it a install location 23:10:00 (and symlinks to clean up the mess) 23:10:06 now i feel 5% less like an idiot 23:10:17 ryankarason, about all programs with a ./configure script accept --prefix 23:10:34 well no one has ever explained to me configure 23:10:46 i just have used it for things which specifically show in docs to run it 23:10:47 alexherb2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-86-230.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:10:55 never took the time to research, now i realize i should have. 23:10:55 ryankarason: Most things do okay in local insta-- what Fare said 23:11:04 -!- alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-96-207.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:11:21 somedays i think i just get dummer everyday. but not today. 23:11:27 haha 23:11:43 Me, too, but I figure it makes the good days feel even better. 23:12:09 okay, so if i were to start using sbcl, is there a way to set the readline up as gnu's readline? 23:12:31 being able to set input as vi-like keys and being able to scroll in history? 23:12:52 It probably won't be as nice as CLISP's 23:13:06 But you can use a utility called rlwrap 23:13:14 okay, i will look in to that. 23:13:21 rlwrap sbcl 23:13:28 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:11 here is something i have been wondering for some time, is why do programs not make the readline part of there programs modular, so you can just says use this program for readline 23:14:42 so then, if you like say for instance gnu's readline, you can just link to its binary 23:14:47 CLISP became GPL because of readline. A somewhat famous story. 23:15:04 i like the open source virus, myself. 23:15:31 i will have to research this famous story... 23:16:15 ryankarason: It's a really good story. Some of the channels I sit in are very anti-GPL, and I end up linking it as a way to explain the virtues of the GPL 23:16:35 Lis [~Lis@p3E9E821A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:16:36 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f69924.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:48 hehe. 23:17:06 i had dinner with Richard Stallman before. it was entertaining. 23:17:10 :o 23:17:41 he wasn't amused that i called the GPL an "open source virus" 23:17:46 haha 23:18:02 he said virus are bad 23:18:15 and i was very upset that i could not think of the virus that is helpful to humans 23:18:17 Life is contagious, too, if you like playing with terminology, so 23:18:23 because i couldn't back up me point 23:19:39 -!- normanrichards [~textual@mobile-166-147-066-137.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:41 Hello everyone, can someone help me with ccl and asdf-install? I try to use the bundled asdf-install from ccl but get this error http://paste.lisp.org/display/140636 I followed http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/HintsForAsdfAndOpenmcl 23:22:33 ryankarason: Just curious, but can you think of it now? 23:22:56 heddwch: i was just researching and i can not find it 23:23:06 *ryankarason* isn't good at remembering virus names 23:23:28 Damn =/ It's okay, I knew at least one existed, too, but your mention made me want to read about it 23:23:35 hehe 23:23:47 also, there are a few that are useful to humans in small dosages 23:23:58 which help fight off other bad things 23:24:04 Hm 23:24:14 i also just read there is a virus which sheep cannot live without 23:24:31 Lis: asdf-install is very outdated, use quicklisp instead 23:24:36 A shame there's no naturally-existing virus that lives off cancer 23:25:38 ok, thank you 23:25:50 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16980413 23:27:30 ERVs are DNA sequences, not viruses themselves. Please don't stretch the metaphor, it's already silly as it is. 23:30:09 mkay. 23:30:18 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:31:26 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:31 are there good docs for SBCL's error messages? i just felt i was getting the hang of CLISP's 23:31:51 sbcl's manual has some detail. 23:32:00 -!- alexherb2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-86-230.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:34 davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:44 -!- karswell` [~user@119.243.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:32:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:33:35 karswell` [~user@119.243.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:40 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33:50 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-31-160.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:34:42 CLISP seems to be quite dead, isn't it? 23:34:46 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:36:05 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-31-160.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:36:41 Dead-ish 23:39:26 ish? lol 23:41:57 CLISP needs a little bit more love from this channel. :) 23:42:13 lol 23:43:08 There was a period of time when it was a really bad implementation with regards to portable code. Then it got a lot better and was actively developed, though some glitches remained. At the moment it is not very actively developed. There are better choices much of the time. 23:43:47 I also personally find it hard to install and use. I'd love for it to be better but not enough to do the work myself. 23:43:48 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:20 Not very actively == no changes in four years? 23:44:57 It hasn't been quite that long, and there has been some non-release activity. Just not a lot. 23:45:43 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:50 Ah, I was just looking at the repo, the only thing changed since the end of '09 was some source-control files 23:46:24 Which repo? The latest release was in July of 2010. 23:46:44 Oh, hm 23:46:49 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@static-087-245-025-149-teleos.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:46:52 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 23:48:21 I guess I don't understand how the hell they're doing things. No trunk branch, default isn't most current. Most current seems to be clisp_2_33-patched 23:48:48 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-11.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:50:26 What repo? 23:50:52 Sorry 23:51:02 http://sourceforge.net/p/clisp/clisp/ref/default/branches/ 23:51:19 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-31-160.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:51:49 ah 23:52:08 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:23 Do you know if the project lead is still alive? 23:53:29 -!- iqool [~user@46.78.27.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:53:43 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:55:01 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 23:55:12 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:501b:e260:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:46 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 23:56:24 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 23:56:45 Sam posts to various lists sometimes. 23:56:51 where does quicklisp store its downloads and sources etc? 23:57:17 Lis: in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/ 23:57:31 Cool, thank you 23:57:33 ty 23:59:23 -!- tmv [~tmv@189.154.145.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:59:33 -!- Quadresce [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]