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I forgot about that. No problem. 01:49:27 i'm pretty sure you can make an eql specializer with any object. 01:50:47 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9CE42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:51 kristof: i just mean that (eql nil) and null are equivalent specializers. 01:51:08 oh, that's what you meant 01:51:50 so he can just do (defmethod method ((obj null)) . . .) 01:52:02 How does this sound? I'm writing a C++ refactoring tool in Common Lisp using the clang RecursiveASTVisitor. RecursiveASTVisitor is a C++ class that contains hundreds of members with names like VisitCXXRecordDecl(CXXRecordDecl* node) where CXXRecordDecl is a C++ class that represents a C++ class or struct AST node. 01:52:47 Here's the question: I'm going to use defgeneric/defmethod to create callbacks for every one of these VisitXXX functions. 01:53:36 As in (defmethod visit-cxx-record-decl ((x (eql YYY)) node) ...) 01:54:27 Sound reasonable? 01:55:03 This way I can implement different visit-cxx-record-decl methods and specialize them on different first arguments. 02:00:21 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:00:46 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@14.Red-79-148-14.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dcxi] 02:00:47 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:09 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:12:47 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:21:39 -!- desophos 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#lisp 03:34:21 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:35:35 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:35:39 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 03:42:35 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:02 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 03:45:59 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:46:34 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:39 chenjf [~communi@117.136.31.147] has joined #lisp 03:48:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:48:48 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-121-241.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:12 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-211-103.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:44 -!- chenjf [~communi@117.136.31.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:58 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 04:01:34 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch786@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:20 ckoch786 [~ckoch786@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: good night everyone. God bless] 04:08:56 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch786@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:53 ckoch786 [~ckoch786@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 hey what book do you guys recommend for lisp? 04:18:22 like, for learning? I used practical common lisp. 04:18:26 minion: pcl 04:18:26 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:21:40 hmm have you guys read the little schemer? pcl is available online 04:22:02 just got an amazon gift card and would rather not spend it all in one place 04:28:26 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:29:01 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 04:29:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:32:59 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:38:26 -!- cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-jhgkpvxsssfelzee] has left #lisp 04:38:40 -!- milosn [~milosn@genkt-058-042.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:41:48 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:46:50 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:25 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-200.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:55:19 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:29 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:29 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:01:23 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:02 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:04:35 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:23 strobegen [~Adium@62.33.153.231] has joined #lisp 05:05:40 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:10 ah yea PCL is awesome 05:10:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:10:07 -!- 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Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:10:55 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:11:54 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 08:12:38 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:14:32 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.228.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:17:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17:58 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@188.58.7.79] has joined #lisp 08:18:18 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 08:19:12 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 08:24:09 staykov: scheme is a different lisp than common lisp. PCL is about the latter. The little schemer - you get the idea. Scheme and CL are really quite different. 08:24:14 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 08:25:07 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@188.58.7.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:25:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.207.242] has joined #lisp 08:25:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.207.242] has quit [Changing host] 08:25:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:26:27 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-13-132-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:29:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:08 -!- codeburg [~codeburg@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:33:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:33:50 escalz [~escalz@AMontsouris-553-1-64-139.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:35:25 wohonajax [~wohonajax@108.231.174.248] has joined #lisp 08:36:07 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:36:35 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-126-206.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:47 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 08:39:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 08:39:53 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 08:39:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 08:39:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:41:36 -!- erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:45:38 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:48:29 erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has joined #lisp 08:52:46 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 08:53:17 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:53:39 mbobak [~mbobak@81.89.53.154.vnet.sk] has joined #lisp 08:54:56 rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.15.212] has joined #lisp 08:55:08 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:38 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@188.58.7.79] has joined #lisp 08:58:03 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-poyqzerrvkiyvbjh] has joined #lisp 08:58:03 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-poyqzerrvkiyvbjh] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:03 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:59:59 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:14 I did a macro where I provide a function using flet, it seems to be a literal scoped definition... how to provide a global scoped definition instead? 09:00:24 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:00:31 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:1002:1c74:ff75:47b2] has joined #lisp 09:00:42 'global scoped' is rather oxymoronic, don't you think? 09:01:01 maybe 09:01:13 So what do you want? 09:01:41 I want to provide a function that's available to all code called from within the macro, not just lexically defined within it 09:01:52 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-100-202.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:02:08 Oh, do you want it to have dynamic extent? 09:02:12 yeah 09:02:30 I don't see how 'global scoped' is oxymoronic. 09:02:53 well, you'll need to put the actual function in a dynamic variable. 09:03:40 How about expanding the macro to a defun form? 09:04:33 maybe I should provide a defun intended to only work within the dynamic scope of the macro? 09:05:17 Maybe you should talk about the problem you're really trying to solve? 09:05:40 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 09:06:23 (with-mysql-connection (dbname) (mysql-query "query here")) 09:07:14 yeah, i'd just defun mysql-query to use something dynamically bound. 09:07:24 mysql-query is a flet where an explicit *connection* is used and some parameters already set to good defaults, but a thin wrapper around qmynd:mysql-query otherwise 09:07:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:35 *connection* is already dynamically bound 09:08:04 so yeah sounds like a deal then 09:08:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:38 it was kind of neat to be able to do the flet dance, I will miss it 09:14:15 -!- erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:27 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:501b:e260:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:15:33 erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has joined #lisp 09:17:50 scoofy [scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:18:12 dim: why would mysql-query go out of lexical code in your example? 09:18:31 because I'm calling out to utility functions 09:18:55 schema discovery for tables, views, indexes, foreign keys, you name it 09:20:49 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:54 JorDunn [~JorDunn@c-24-131-164-73.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:13 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dda3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:55 -!- bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:27 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:1002:1c74:ff75:47b2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:05 -!- mbobak [~mbobak@81.89.53.154.vnet.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29:33 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9E8C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:32:41 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:32 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.201.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:53 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:35:38 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dda3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:52 dim: at the risk of annoying you: why would that bring the function out of scope? Do you want those functions you call to see mysql-query too? 09:37:50 exactly 09:38:17 will publish the code/patch soon, finishing a series before pushing 09:38:24 -!- JorDunn [~JorDunn@c-24-131-164-73.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:39 JorDunn [~JorDunn@c-24-131-164-73.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:04 escalz` [~escalz@AMontsouris-553-1-115-118.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:43:09 -!- escalz [~escalz@AMontsouris-553-1-64-139.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:43:18 OldContrarian: Re: your question on RaspberryPi and lisp yesterday: There's a website by Rainer Joswig, a lisp programmer in Hamburg, that describes setting up a RaspberryPi with a lisp environment. When the site is up, it's at lispm.dyndns.org. 09:43:34 -!- escalz` is now known as escalz 09:43:50 chr: Ah, that's great, thanks! 09:48:38 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:48:44 *chr````* mailed Rainer and asked to bring lispm.dyndns.org online again. 09:51:06 prxq: https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/commit/bb561a0c4df34da1abecb1d16aa2cb58fe97d2d6 should make the case quite clear 09:52:08 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:52:37 -!- protist [~protist@115.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:53:13 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:56:20 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:56:36 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:56:41 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:30 ggole 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known as Wackadoodle 10:16:23 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.198] has joined #lisp 10:16:40 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:40 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:55 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:03 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:52 ehu` [~ehu@62.140.132.11] has joined #lisp 10:20:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:22:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:25:53 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:26:03 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:10 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:15 chr: Thanks, I also asked him on twitter and he responded, it's up now. 10:34:09 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 10:34:30 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 10:36:11 -!- OldContrarian [~OldContra@c-5eeaaaa4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37:56 oxum [~oxum@122.174.37.1] has joined #lisp 10:38:52 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 10:39:47 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@188.58.7.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:55 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:40:43 -!- ehu` [~ehu@62.140.132.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:42:27 guzhou [~Thunderbi@219.133.170.82] has joined #lisp 10:42:55 -!- svetlyak40wt [uid20768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kpsrxfcmqysaphzf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:43:26 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:44:54 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 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13:06:53 pootler [mervyn@c1pe.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:06 CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 13:08:09 b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-76-20.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 13:08:38 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:40 -!- JorDunn [~JorDunn@c-24-131-164-73.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08:44 -!- CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08:56 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:09:44 -!- shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.32.110] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 13:11:28 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:36 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:13:06 przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5BDE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:53 -!- rk[zzz] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:44 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:14 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:57 I've written a log reporting method, and consider exposing it through a function with a signature similar to &optional (log logclass *log*) (level fixnum 0) (tag symbol :log) &mandatory (format string) &rest args, where the elements in the preceding list denote (varname type default-value). As the types preceding the format string are distinct, I think this could be nice in practice, even if the defun to implement it may look somewhat 13:23:57 convoluted. What do you think? 13:27:28 why &optional instead of &key? 13:28:11 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:29:52 -!- b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-76-20.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:05 b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-76-20.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 13:30:29 -!- b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-76-20.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has left #lisp 13:30:56 mal___: To make it take up less space in source code. (Oops, that doesn't sound too good...) 13:31:35 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 13:31:48 multiple optionals also have the disadvantage that if you're only interested in supplying the third, you're forced to supply the other two also 13:31:55 -!- ozzloy_ [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:32:19 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@unaffiliated/killmaster/x-109233] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:10 mal___: If two first args have types symbol string, I think I can be certain that the intent is to provide tag followed by format-string. Would you agree? 13:33:26 Tag being the third arg. 13:33:28 killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:34:12 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:32 that would make the API too fragile for my taste 13:35:14 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.211] has joined #lisp 13:36:03 Behind this outer interface, I'll have a function which reasons about the args, builds a proper call with keywords and default values. 13:36:09 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:11 do you intend to support usages like (log "Something went wrong in module ~S at point ~A~%" module-name 42)? That would be a sue for your rest args 13:36:16 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5BDE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:36:32 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:38 honestly, these DWIM interfaces tend to be fragile and error prone 13:37:06 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9E8C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:37:53 eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r186-52-5-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:39:07 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9E8C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:41 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:57 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r186-52-5-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:19 -!- Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:20 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-87-235.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:40:49 Yes, usages like the above. What did you mean by "be a sue"? 13:40:53 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:41:10 Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:25 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-24-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:41:28 dang. be a use 13:47:11 Yes, that's what I mean to use the rest args for, as args to the format string. 13:47:48 Hmm. Sounds like it'll be hard sell to my colleagues. 13:48:53 is there a pass-by-reference notion in CL? 13:49:13 dim: not really 13:49:14 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:23 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.251.4] has joined #lisp 13:49:31 No, but you can capture in closures, which may be equivalent. 13:50:05 if I pass down a list to a function that setf elements of it, will the caller see the new definitions? 13:50:14 yes 13:50:42 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.224] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 trying that then, thanks 13:52:09 What problem are you trying to solve? :) 13:52:11 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-173-225.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:18 You may find that (foo% (lambda (v) (setf x v))) produced via a macro like (foo x) does what you want. 13:56:55 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.212.102] has joined #lisp 13:57:15 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.212.102] has quit [Changing host] 13:57:15 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 13:57:40 refactoring code, I'm pushing a part of the processing into a utility function 13:57:48 so passing a list as a param 13:58:00 one of the things the utility function has to do is mutate the list 13:58:12 of course the new list is then used in the rest of the code 13:58:53 and I was like "oh, that can only work when pass-by-reference semantics are used, and I don't know for sure about that" 13:59:02 vaporatorius [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:03 maybe I'm still thinking too much in terms of C here 14:00:22 and of course it just works, using setf in the passed-down list 14:00:48 (the list contains defstruct instances and the setf is used against some slots of the struct instances) 14:01:38 imo mutation should be used very sparingly 14:02:03 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host81-153-176-180.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:02:08 it can bite your behind very quickly 14:02:22 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-176-180.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:04 yeah I think it's used sparingly enough here 14:04:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:04:20 I have that hate for mutating things too, been doing erlang years ago 14:05:23 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:33 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.15.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:06:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:07:20 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 14:07:35 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:08:05 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 14:08:19 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-5-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:08:33 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:03 -!- protist [~protist@25.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:13:06 dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:55 mijicd [~user@cable-89-216-31-170.static.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:15:05 -!- mijicd [~user@cable-89-216-31-170.static.sbb.rs] has quit [Client Quit] 14:15:29 malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:00 LiamH [~healy@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has joined #lisp 14:20:01 vap1 [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:01 -!- vap1 [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:22:50 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23:27 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:16 knob9876 [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 14:26:48 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:26:50 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:27:46 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 14:28:21 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:28:31 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:30:12 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:06 doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has joined #lisp 14:32:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:34:03 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.2] has joined #lisp 14:35:20 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.224] has joined #lisp 14:40:16 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [] 14:40:38 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:41:12 I can't seem to be able to use :method :delete in RESTAS 14:41:19 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:23 when I request it with drakma, it gives me 404 14:41:57 Denommus: can you paste the code? It should work just fine. 14:43:42 paste.lisp.org is taking forever to load, but I'll paste it as soon as I can 14:44:19 http://paste.lisp.org/+30I3 14:44:42 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:44:49 (I know I shouldn't handle session with a special variable, this is just a prototype for some client-side tests) 14:45:22 and this is how I'm making the request: (drakma:http-request "http://localhost:8080/session" :method :delete :basic-authorization "somerandomstring") 14:45:49 segv- [~mb@cpeB-151.mvcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:00 I forgot to colorize as Common Lisp 14:47:10 so? 14:47:15 can it be a problem with drakma? 14:47:16 Does it work when you replace :delete with something else? 14:47:37 hitecnologys: well, I'm using the exactly same URL for POST, but in other route 14:48:41 -!- dca [~dca@146.185.164.188] has left #lisp 14:49:06 hitecnologys: hm, it seems that it gives me error if I use POST on this route, too. Maybe it is a problem with using basic-authorization? 14:49:33 -!- llshamanll [~lllshaman@146.66.163.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:56 llshamanll [~lllshaman@146.66.163.140] has joined #lisp 14:50:11 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:30 Denommus: well, :delete works just fine for me. The problem is somewhere in your code. 14:55:39 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:50 hitecnologys: just found out. NIL is 404 in hunchentoot and RESTAS, it seems 14:56:08 Yes. 14:56:38 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140619#1 14:56:52 That is from RESTAS sources. 14:57:05 why not use clack and get all the benefits of a descriptive and pretty error middleware? :3 14:57:16 hitecnologys: ah 14:58:35 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:26 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:27 -!- chr```` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:05 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 15:05:20 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:51 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:19 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:11:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:11:40 I have a low-level Common Lisp implementation question - I implement all my builtin CL types as C++ classes and I want to be able to subclass some of them in CL (ie: Gray streams). How would you do that? 15:12:35 I currently implement instances of classes as C++ objects called "Instance" which store a pointer to a class, an array of slots and a funcallable function. 15:13:02 I'm going to need to embed an instance of the C++ class in there somehow won't I? 15:13:22 The C++ class that I'm subclassing that is. 15:14:05 I should be able to figure this out but I've been doing so much C++ template programming lately I fear I am becoming retarded. 15:14:06 subclassing in CL inherits slots, but it mostly matters for generic function dispatch 15:15:37 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:15:44 Right - I think I have the generic function dispatch covered - I just need to set up the ClassPrecedenceList for the class properly and CLOS takes care of the CL side and C++ takes care of the rest. 15:18:30 It's the slots part that I'm confused about. Let's say I have a C++ class Foo with instance variables, member functions etc. It is exposed within CL as the class FOO and it can be used for generic function dispatch (I have all that working) If in CL I say (defclass BAR (FOO) (slot-1 #|Just to make it interesting|#)) What should happen when I say (make-instance 'BAR)? 15:18:42 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 15:19:01 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 15:19:23 -!- Guest96428 [~this@41.89.164.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:19:34 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:16 Maybe the C++ class that gets instantiated should inherit (in terms of C++) from Foo and my C++ "Instance" class. 15:21:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:22:27 Maybe I should use: template class InstanceWrapper : public CppClass, public Instance {...}; 15:24:18 You'll want some way to map CL slots to C instance variables 15:24:26 Then I just need some trickery to redirect the C++ member functions to FUNCALL so that C++ code will call the CL code. 15:25:27 so (slot-value 'slot-1 bar) will access a normal CLOS slot, but (slot-value 'foo-instance-variable bar) will hit the Foo object's instance method 15:25:34 er, variable 15:27:05 Hmm, I hadn't thought that far ahead to access C++ instance variables via slot-value. 15:27:50 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:00 The first part - yes - this is how you access the slot defined in (defclass ...) (slot-value 'slot-1 bar) 15:28:32 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:55 I allow the user to define getters and setters to access C++ instance variables. 15:30:18 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 15:30:51 rk[zzz] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 15:30:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:00 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:31:12 *drmeiste_* grumbles at wireless 15:33:54 -!- OldContrarian [~OldContra@94.234.170.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:04 keen_ [~blackened@p73a2a7fb.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.54.97] has joined #lisp 15:37:06 baboon` [~user@188.73.8.88] has joined #lisp 15:37:50 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:01 -!- rk[zzz] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:39:04 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.54.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:33 sh-armv7l [~sthalik@2001:41d0:2:9d7b:cafe::1042] has joined #lisp 15:44:51 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:33 rk[zzz] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 15:51:34 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:30 milosn [~milosn@85.64.17.152.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:49 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:39 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:03 -!- milosn [~milosn@85.64.17.152.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:04 -!- escalz [~escalz@AMontsouris-553-1-115-118.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:47 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 16:01:55 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-144-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:02:00 milosn [~milosn@85.64.17.152.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:10 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 16:02:19 Good evening everyone. 16:03:01 minion: memo for drmeister: you could have a look at the Objective-C bridge in ccl, with which it's possible to subclass in CLOS Objective-C classes. Basically it's a matter of providing a metaclass to do the right thing. 16:03:01 Remembered. I'll tell drmeister when he/she/it next speaks. 16:03:29 beach: evening. 16:07:25 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.54.97] has joined #lisp 16:07:25 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:07 Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has joined #lisp 16:08:28 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pekzeillprfcrcis] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:10 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12:38 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:35 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 16:14:27 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.188.191] has joined #lisp 16:14:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.188.191] has quit [Changing host] 16:14:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:16:19 minion: Memo for mathrick: I implemented an incremental version of READ as part of the Common Lisp syntax analyzer for Second Climacs. I think this is a step in the right direction, but there is much work to be done of course. 16:16:19 Remembered. I'll tell mathrick when he/she/it next speaks. 16:17:17 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:33 -!- sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:18:52 sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has joined #lisp 16:19:02 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 16:20:59 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:20 boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.201.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:54 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-iqomthmbbobulwhd] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.251.4] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:27:08 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dcxi] 16:30:08 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:30:22 sellout- [~Adium@97-118-116-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:11 -!- Guthur [~user@ppp118-210-78-230.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:27 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:38:39 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 16:38:43 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:39:33 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:40:05 rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-104-079.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:14 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-104-079.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:40:14 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 16:40:19 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.54.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:37 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.54.97] has joined #lisp 16:41:06 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 16:41:46 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:11 booga-booga [cebe4f83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.190.79.131] has joined #lisp 16:44:14 word out 16:45:27 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 16:45:32 General (and somewhat vague) question: Suppose you could do incremental compilation of an editor buffer. How much compilation would be reasonable to do, not taking into account performance. 16:45:53 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:31 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dda3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:18 I am thinking it might not be a good idea to perform the (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...) forms, because they might have unwanted side effects to the startup environment in implementations that don't distinguish between the startup environment and the compilation environment. 16:48:20 On the other hand, in an implementation that can create a fresh clone of the startup environment to create the compilation environment one might be able to perform those side effects. 16:48:48 I am just thinking out loud in order to (perhaps) get some feedback. 16:48:48 -!- boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:21 boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-5-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:52:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:52:14 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:50 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-31-160.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:52:51 beach: you cannot do incremental compilation in CL 16:53:19 not in the general case 16:53:36 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 16:53:41 -!- boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:53:50 fe[nl]ix: Yes, I know. 16:53:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:22 you can try to do it IFF all the toplevel forms are standard forms 16:54:30 -!- wohonajax [~wohonajax@108.231.174.248] has left #lisp 16:54:44 "standard forms"? 16:55:27 forms in package CL 16:55:55 i.e. no user-defined macros or functions wrapped in eval-when 16:56:16 fe[nl]ix: Clearly, I don't mean that I can generate code incrementally, and the result of the compilation might not always be precise, but a good approximation ought to be possible. 16:56:29 Yes, I know there are limiations. 16:56:33 limitations. 16:56:55 uh 16:56:57 On the other hand, "incremental" may well mean "recompile the entire buffer whenever there is a change". 16:57:22 fe[nl]ix: So the question then becomes how bad an approximation is required in order to get reasonable performance. 16:57:23 hm 16:59:24 fe[nl]ix: Do you see what I mean. I did say the question is vague. 16:59:57 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:00:14 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:17 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 17:00:23 -!- knob9876 [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:00:40 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 17:00:47 how do you get good performance from lisp web apps? 17:01:35 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:39 if I want to provide alternatives restarts, is restart-case the form to use? 17:01:57 booga-booga: Same way you get good performance from other apps. Use your programming skills. 17:02:19 ah ha!! 17:02:24 I hav almsot none 17:02:40 I mean my programming is alomst as bad as my typing! 17:03:06 -!- scoofy [scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:04:33 beach: I would worry first about correctness then about performance 17:04:59 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:30 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:31 beach: if only CL had first-class compilation environments using persistent data structures :) 17:06:25 fe[nl]ix: That could be arranged :) 17:07:16 fe[nl]ix: My thinking is to do a better job than Emacs, so that for instance when I type (let ((defparameter 234)) ...) then defparameter will not be highlighted as if it were the use of a standard macro. 17:08:00 fe[nl]ix: But I do not have any ambition to be perfect. So, already the best we have is so incorrect that it is hard not to do better. 17:08:28 beach: hm, of course you could improve Emacs instead 17:08:43 Denommus: I will leave that to others. 17:09:22 My guess is that an incremental version of the CL:READ written in Emacs Lisp would not have acceptable performance. 17:09:23 Being more accurate than emacs' highlighting shouldn't be hard... 17:09:32 vi 17:09:33 and again I find myself in a situation where I don't understand why people prefer to reinvent the wheel instead of improving existing solutions 17:09:36 just use vi 17:09:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:49 or ed 17:10:01 Denommus: Because it's fun. 17:10:22 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 17:10:22 I prefer to scratch my code into the dirt with a piece of specially knapped flint. 17:10:40 <_death> dim: pretty much 17:10:53 beach: incremental improvements can also be fun, but that's only my opinion, of course 17:10:54 -!- _death is now known as adeht 17:11:08 Denommus: Sure, I respect your preference. 17:16:41 exploratory programming 17:16:43 explore 17:16:49 Im an explorer 17:19:21 ski [~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 17:19:30 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 17:20:43 wohonajax [~wohonajax@108-231-174-248.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:10 fe[nl]ix: I don't know about persistence, but first-class compilation environments is part of the plan, actually. 17:21:36 -!- baboon` [~user@188.73.8.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:21:37 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:22:01 josemanuel [~josemanue@249.Red-80-39-57.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:39 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 17:25:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGS2tKQhdhY 17:27:41 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-144-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:28:35 Adlai` [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:28:53 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:28:57 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 17:29:44 hi Adlai 17:30:14 hello fe[nl]ix 17:31:03 *Adlai* continues lurks 17:31:07 lurking too 17:31:16 woohoo, it's like in the olden days 17:31:31 you have no idea... I just finished a phone interview for a CL job 17:31:36 *fe[nl]ix* is surfin' the web at 10 Kbytes/sec 17:31:59 Adlai: ooh, where ? 17:32:26 with felideon ! 17:32:41 what company ? 17:32:56 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 17:33:04 MCNA Dental 17:33:11 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:33:12 lol 17:33:54 Don't laugh. :) 17:34:28 he will arguably make more impact on people's day-to-day lives than some trendy web startup 17:34:39 (well, if he gets the job) 17:34:41 dlowe: A drill in every childs tooth, as we say! 17:34:48 dlowe: good point 17:35:22 I worked for a company once that made tiny titanium screws meant for dental work. The tolerances required for the machining were insane. 17:36:00 dlowe: how dare you insinuate that I work in a trendy web startup! 17:36:01 1 17:36:13 Adlai: I suggested no such thing 17:36:20 dlowe: 10 µm or thereabouts ? 17:36:21 my (current but not for long!!!) trendy startup makes mobile games, not websites 17:36:27 Adlai: will you be working remotely 17:36:46 fe[nl]ix: thereabouts, yeah 17:37:23 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:37:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGS2tKQhdhY 17:39:40 adeht: yes, after a ~month of being on-site 17:41:47 spupy [~spupy@client-36-174.speedy-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:42:52 I actually used CL surreptitiously at my current job a few times, to generate XML 17:43:14 OldContrarian [~OldContra@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:32 Adlai: I, too, use CL at my current job... though I also write java and javascript 17:46:19 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:56 do you use CL directly or to generate code? 17:47:06 -!- booga-booga is now known as turjan-of-miir 17:48:04 smithzv [~user@c-50-165-5-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:14 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@249.Red-80-39-57.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:49:02 Adlai: at the moment there's no production CL code.. but in the near future I'm pretty sure some production code will be CL 17:49:42 yeah 17:51:02 Adlai: for now I use CL for internal tools for myself and others 17:53:00 I wish I could make something in Lisp at work... hmm, perhaps I'll sneak something in :-) 17:53:05 yeah 17:53:14 make a web servr that serves dynamic content 17:53:22 and port over the ticketing system and snmp monitring 17:53:29 then progrma a lisp dns ldap vombo 17:54:24 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:55:33 then move all database stuff to cl-prevayler 17:55:42 domiante the web 17:56:02 Hehe 17:58:41 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:59:12 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:01:05 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:25 web domination 18:01:26 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:44 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-5-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.54.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:27 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10:32 antgreen [~green@out-on-235.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:42 skip sql 18:10:47 sqkl virtualization 18:10:53 skip microsoft 18:10:57 skip cisco 18:11:11 cl-prevayler on lisp on bsd 18:11:15 done! 18:12:26 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.18] has joined #lisp 18:12:29 kmder [BpZToFeQNP@panix1.panix.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:50 route hru bsd 18:13:27 Poenikatu [~kvirc@host-89-240-253-72.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:27 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@host-89-240-253-72.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:13:27 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 18:13:56 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 18:14:12 -!- fe[nl]ix has set mode +b *!cebe4f83@*.79.131 18:14:12 -!- turjan-of-miir [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (turjan-of-miir) 18:14:24 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 18:14:55 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.87.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:15:33 -!- STilda|2 [~kvirc@188.162.166.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:19 OldContrarian: lisp is great for generating stuff. For a few months I was building dashboards using some proprietary XML verbose horribleness, and after a few days I just broke down and started generating them from lisp 18:16:50 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:17:05 -!- other_nick-37 [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:17:39 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:17:50 Adlai: Hmm. Interesting. I need to make a text-based forms system at work. It'll read a config file and generate a ncurses form. Perhaps I could use Lisp for that? Does Lisp have ncurses support, I wonder? 18:18:14 -!- w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:18:22 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 18:18:30 (ql-dist:system-apropos "curses") 18:18:32 # 18:18:36 OldContrarian: 6 18:18:37 -!- segv- [~mb@cpeB-151.mvcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:18:45 ... with a shift 18:19:12 Adlai: Cool, thanks. I'm new to Lisp, I haven't learned how to use ql magicness yet. :-) 18:19:32 w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has joined #lisp 18:20:10 you can call it with ql:apropos too, I just tab completed and it gave the full name 18:22:20 Adlai: Cool. Can't do any of that yet, I'm waiting for my friend (who owns the Raspberry pie I intend to work with) to show up and install some stuff I need to install clozure. 18:23:14 What kind of work? Feeding the homeless? 18:23:26 How'd you know? :-) 18:23:38 Pie :) 18:23:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:55 Ah, I see what you did there :-) 18:24:22 mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has joined #lisp 18:24:31 Btw, has anybody read Land of Lisp? It seems like a really fun way to learn. 18:24:56 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:23 Its approach is "Learn Lisp by using it to make simple games". 18:27:22 OldContrarian: it's a bit below my skill level but I like the idea 18:27:46 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:28:47 Adlai: I read that you make a simple text adventure in it, and that's cool because I like those. I've even written my own MUD (multiplayer text game) server in Python a few years back... 18:29:01 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:04 OldContrarian: yeah definitely work through it!~ 18:29:26 ... so a book about learning Lisp by making text games? Sounds like it was written for me! 18:29:36 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 18:30:00 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:30:03 I think it really broke down in the beginning using the repl as its input 18:30:20 but I guess that made it easier to get started 18:30:37 Why did it do that? Because then they didn't have to explain how to use a text editor? 18:30:50 or how to use loops and READ 18:30:54 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:30:59 OldContrarian: I have 18:31:52 Denommus: Did you like it? 18:32:07 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-5-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:26 OldContrarian: well, I did. But I think I learned more from PCL 18:32:39 Cool, I have that already. 18:33:08 there's also a "Realm of Racket", in the same style, only for Racket 18:33:14 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:26 If I were to make a text adventure game, Inform 7 is pretty amazing. 18:36:30 of course, you wouldn't be learning lisp at the same time, either 18:38:33 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:09 Inform 7 is fun, but I don't think it would be practical to make anything big with it. 18:39:20 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:39:33 OldContrarian: it's a fun book but it shouldn't be your only Lisp book 18:40:25 adeht: Ok, I'm currently reading Practical Common Lisp. 18:40:26 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:48 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1ED8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:49 -!- _5kg 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#lisp 19:52:40 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 19:53:03 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:54:13 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dda3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:54:17 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 19:54:24 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:33 -!- keen_ [~blackened@p73a2a7fb.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:18 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-179-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:58:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-179-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:53 macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:00:37 hi. i'm a bit confused about the various versions of mod_lisp for apache, and whether it's even still the best way to do lisp web stuff behind apache 20:01:20 macdice: it is not. the preferred mode of operation is to use apache as a reverse proxy (or another reverse proxy like varnish, squid or nginx) 20:01:25 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96F21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01:45 and then server http with ... hunchentoot? 20:03:16 macdice: that is the most common choice 20:04:02 and what is the most common way to manage the long running lisp process? 20:04:42 macdice: i don't think there is "most common". many people use detached tmux or screen sessions or detachtty 20:04:52 frgo [~user@p5498E621.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:04:53 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-225-39-81.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:22 urandom__ [~user@ip-84-119-36-238.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:02 thanks, very helpful, that is what i will do then :-) 20:08:48 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:11:17 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-100-202.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:42 -!- frgo [~user@p5498E621.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:13 frgo [~user@p5498E621.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:28 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1ED8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:34 ok been checking out the docs. all good. is there any reason to consider anything other than html-template to render html? 20:17:20 hmm. dr weitz has provided us with not one but TWO libraries to achieve this goal... 20:17:39 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.212.102] has joined #lisp 20:18:00 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.212.102] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:00 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 20:18:12 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 antgreen [~green@out-on-213.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:43 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:22:32 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:25:28 -!- smithzv [~user@c-50-165-5-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:41 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-213.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:34:53 macdice: i'm using xhtmlgen as i prefer xhtml to plain html (and i also prefer htmlgen's syntax to html-templates') 20:35:21 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 20:35:22 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:46 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:06 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 20:38:28 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:49 segv- [~mb@cpeB-151.mvcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:57 dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:02 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:44 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:43:15 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:44:56 francogrex [~user@91.182.143.4] has joined #lisp 20:47:02 I *finally* managed to install ccl on the Raspberry pi. Happy happy. Joy joy. 20:47:34 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:47:34 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:48:16 OldContrarian: Congratulations! Does it run? 20:49:07 heddwch: It seems so, it's compiling (itself? I think?) now... (ccl:rebuild-ccl :full t) 20:49:27 I'm new, can you tell= =) 20:49:36 s/=/?/ 20:50:07 Cool :) 20:50:11 On both counts 20:51:48 This is nerdily cool, I'm going to buy the Land of Lisp ebook and get started. 20:51:54 -!- frgo [~user@p5498E621.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:33 I'll be using a Transformer Prime (Android tablet with detachable hardware keyboard) to ssh into my friend's Raspberry pi to make text games with lisp. Am I a nerd yet? 20:54:11 OldContrarian: only if you use PEEK and POKE for screen output. 20:54:13 That sounds like an unnecessarily slow solution, tbh =p 20:54:59 flip511: I totally could, if I was on C64 hardware. peek 1024 through 2023 was the screen adresses. 20:55:49 heddwch: Yeah, the tablet part is because the computers are always (nearly) occupied by the kids. The pi part is because even when I get one myself, it's a cheap server that I can always leave on. 20:56:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:56:20 right. But the important things are the video registers at 0xd000 - background color, sprites, interrupts at specific lines, etc. 20:56:33 Ah, I see, but can't you just run it on the tablet? 20:56:45 flip511: peek 53280,1 && peek 53281,2 20:57:03 I can't believe I still remember after all these years. 20:57:39 heddwch: I want Emacs though. There's an Emacs for the tablet, but it doesn't work well with hardware keyboards. 20:57:43 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-152-61.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:15 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-100-202.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:16 OldContrarian: But you can use a local terminal session and run sbcl/emacs in a GNU chroot 20:58:33 Er, not sbcl, ccl* 20:59:09 OldContrarian: yeah, amazing what trash the brain collects, right? and holds on to it for ever too long. 20:59:15 heddwch: GNU chroot, you say? Is that like, libc and basic GNU tools (ls, sh, etc) for Android? 20:59:41 OldContrarian: Yea, you can install a whole distribution in a loopback file on the SD card 21:00:20 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.32.203] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:00:28 heddwch: Are we talking running this as an app, or is it something I'd have to flash onto the tablet, removing Android? 21:00:40 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:15 OldContrarian: Not as an android app, but just as a process, yea, launch bash and whatever else you want from the shell while still in Android 21:02:25 heddwch: Now I'm confused. What do you mean by "process, not app"? Can you have a process on Android (in userspace) that's not an app? 21:02:41 -!- staykov [~wiggin@pdpc/supporter/active/staykov] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 21:03:14 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:03:34 OldContrarian: Yea, it's just a linux kernel underneath. The Pi might be an easier solution for you, though. You need a linux box to set up the loopback file, but no flashing involved, it's just a file and a couple commands to mount everything 21:04:57 heddwch: So the app I'd launch to start this would be something like an Android xterm? 21:05:24 (don't worry, I'm not going to ask you to help me set it up) =) 21:05:50 Yea, there's connectbot which can do both ssh and local, or just "android terminal emulator," which is a semi-official local-only app 21:05:57 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:01 Your phone already has busybox's sh on it 21:06:07 Your tablet* lol 21:06:16 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:07:13 http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1361&sid=e3277028657c2f8d8d01732cb1d199cc if you're curious. I forgot it does need to be rooted, but it doesn't need reflashed. I totally understand if you don't want to do that 21:07:26 Well, didn't forget, forgot to mention it, mine always are rooted 21:07:30 So you're telling me I can basically run text-mode GNU/Linux on my tablet, and download stuff like tmux and whatnot and compile it for the tablet's processor? Why wasn't I told of this before? =) 21:08:18 Yes, well, it does sound like something you'd need root for. 21:09:02 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:07 I've never rooted a device, all that stuff is still unexplored territory to me. But now my beloved Galaxy Nexus won't be getting an official Android 4.4, so I might finally take the plunge in order to get that. 21:10:15 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 21:10:22 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:14 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:12:35 -!- segv- [~mb@cpeB-151.mvcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:13:02 staykov [~wiggin@pdpc/supporter/active/staykov] has joined #lisp 21:13:35 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:48 OldContrarian: That's a good way to play with it, and yea, you've got it right. I've got an old Droid 2 Global with a hardware keyboard. No custom ROMs for it or anything, but it was rootable, so it's my ARM test machine :) 21:14:29 heddwch: Hehe, that's way cool =) 21:14:45 Ack, now I got an error message when trying to install quicklisp =( 21:14:56 Oh no :( What error? 21:16:29 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:16:47 > Error: Name conflict detected by EXPORT : 21:16:47 > EXPORT'ing FIND-SYMBOL* from #1=# would cause a name conflict with 21:16:47 > the inherited symbol UIOP/PACKAGE:FIND-SYMBOL* in the package #, which uses #1#. 21:17:12 (That seems to be the important part of it) 21:18:16 hm 21:18:24 afk brb 21:21:09 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22:36 back 21:22:48 wb! 21:25:40 I have no idea what to do with that. Googling didn't produce anything... hmm... I wonder if I can do without quicklisp for now... 21:26:23 Yea, I didn't find anything either.. What was the sequence of expressions that led to that? 21:27:54 Hmm, let's see if I can get this pastebin thing to cooperate, hang on... 21:28:06 :) 21:29:07 http://paste.lisp.org/+30I8 21:29:34 Wow, paste is awesome. 21:30:19 haha :) Hm, I was hoping that would be more enlightening lol (Not your fault) 21:30:47 Well, I appreciate that you did try :-) 21:31:02 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:11 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:15 No problem :) 21:31:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:35 I guess I should ask the quicklisp people... 21:31:38 you can attempt to resolve that conflict.. type :r to show the restarts and choose one 21:31:49 Aight. 21:32:50 As in "Review each name conflict and resolve individually"? 21:33:21 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:37:14 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc03-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:15 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:29 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-125-107.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:43 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:39:09 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:41:07 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 21:42:50 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:45:05 OldContrarian: This is a clash between ASDF versions. UIOP is part of ASDF. 21:45:36 OldContrarian: and more recent, therefore I would advise to keep the symbols from UIOP and do nothing of those from ASDF. 21:46:10 pjb: Right, I'll try. Thanks. 21:46:39 pjb: So, resolve individually, and choose UIOP? 21:46:42 OldContrarian: Haven't been following the discussion: what's your platform & lisp implementation? 21:47:05 rpg: I'm using clozure on a Raspberry pi. 21:47:16 probably worth trying to figure out what's going wrong -- is Quicklisp trying to load up an ASDF that is older than the one in your CCL? That seems surprising to me. 21:47:28 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:59 rpg: Well, I have no clue, so I'm afraid I can't really tell you anything useful. 21:48:00 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:29 rpg, That's what it looks like. 21:48:41 Would be good to know what is the value of (asdf:asdf-version) before and after trying to load quicklisp 21:49:06 rpg: That I might be able to figure out, one sec... 21:49:09 If the version you are loading from ql is newer, then just go with a restart that does that. 21:50:27 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:51 rpg: Seems there is no package named "ASDF" *before* I load quicklisp. Should there be? 21:50:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@97-118-116-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:51:53 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51:59 I really appreciate you guys trying to help, btw. 21:52:02 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 21:53:37 OldContrarian: That's odd. When I load CCL (1.9 Mac OSX) I get (asdf:asdf-version) => "2.32" 21:54:01 What's your CCL version? Does doing (require :asdf) make (asdf:asdf-version) work? 21:54:19 (my init file probably does that) 21:54:55 It did, thanks! I have 3.0.3 aparently (before loading quicklisp) 21:54:58 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:56:47 rpg: I have ccl version 1.10-dev-r-something 21:56:55 OldContrarian: Great. Now what happens when you try to load quicklisp? (and do you have the very latest QL?) Is this CCL from subversion? 21:57:07 that answers the third question! 21:57:24 rpg: ccl is from subversion, yes. 21:57:48 I just downloaded quicklisp, so I trust it's the newest one. Restarting ccl to load quicklisp now... 21:59:15 rpg: The loading itself of quicklisp works fine. It's the (quicklisp-quickstart:install) part that gives me trouble. 22:00:43 Should I try (quicklisp-quickstart:install) again, and "resolve individually" and choose UIOP? 22:00:55 (when I get the error message, I mean) 22:01:25 well, before you do that, what does (asdf:asdf-version) say now? 22:01:52 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-fuhjlmmzjbsvrhzn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:53 and then after the call to INSTALL? 22:02:00 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:12 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1ED8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:13 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:03:14 rpg: After loading quicklisp, asdf:asdf-version is still 3.0.3. Trying to install now... 22:03:29 -!- erikc [~erikc@99.225.236.86] has quit [Quit: erikc] 22:03:39 3.0.3 is the latest version AFAIK. 22:03:46 rpg: Should I abort when I get the installation error message, and tell you what asdf:asdf-version says then? 22:04:07 can't you do that without aborting? I.e., just evaluate that form in the debugger? 22:05:07 rpg: Well, if you say I can, then I probably can =) I have no idea. I'll try, I guess? Ordinary lisp syntax works at the debugging prompt? (can you tell I'm new?) 22:06:12 Yes. 22:06:32 It would be more work for the implementer to design and implement another language for the debugger. 22:06:43 Even if we weren't lazy, we're not crazy. 22:07:06 Error: Reader error: No external symbol named "ASDF-VERSION" in package # . 22:07:33 That's what it says when I type (asdf:asdf-version) immediately when I get the error message from the installation. 22:08:37 well *that's* exciting. So the symbol ASDF-VERSION has either been removed (uninterned), or the package's export list has been munged to remove it. 22:08:47 OK, try (ASDF::ASDF-VERSION) 22:09:03 and also try to give us a backtrace from this load.... 22:09:16 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:21 (you'll have to use a paste) 22:10:02 "Undefined function." 22:10:28 rpg: You mean the backtrace from where the installation fails? 22:12:34 rpg: Or do you mean my scrollback from since I started ccl? 22:13:07 (I'm a bit confused about the exact meaning of the word "backtrace", not sure if it's the same thing as a stack trace or not) 22:14:46 OldContrarian, Backtrace from the debugger 22:14:48 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-dxbergshaxsfmaak] has joined #lisp 22:14:55 -!- llshamanll [~lllshaman@146.66.163.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:15:06 OldContrarian, type: :b 22:15:33 Ok, got it. I'll restart ccl and do it all again to get a clean slate. 22:16:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:17:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:18:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:27 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-125-107.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:18:41 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:22:40 OldContrarian: sounds good. For future reference, though, you don't need to kill the lisp session to do this. Crotchety old guys like me will leave their lisp environment running for ages. 22:23:27 rpg: Thanks for the tip. 22:23:40 Backtrace: http://paste.lisp.org/+30I9 22:23:40 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:24:03 Mostly your lisp session will survive bad events. The main need for restart is if the package system gets bollixed up... 22:24:44 rpg, i'll leave my lisp running indefinitely when there's a good and proper way to manage the state of the session 22:25:09 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:25:29 That's odd --- is there something limiting the length of the backtrace you are printing? The bottom of the stack doesn't seem like a call you have made. 22:25:44 Checking... 22:25:49 hahah. not 'that' rpg. 22:25:51 good one. 22:26:32 I know nothing of design patterns. 22:26:35 Nope, that's the end of it, the "1> " prompt is the end. 22:26:45 i'm not 'that' bjork either, just to clarify. 22:28:26 OldContrarian: Are you sure there isn't some limit on trace printing in CCL/ 22:28:58 rpg: Oh, well no, I don't know about *that*. All I know is I captured all that was printed. 22:29:49 documentation seems to claim that all stack frames will be printed, but since the last stack frame is the invocation of an :AROUND method, I'm suspicious. 22:30:26 *OldContrarian* stares blankly, unable to produce anything useful to say. 22:31:15 what does :fl do if you type it at the debugger? 22:32:11 rpg: At the "1 >" prompt? It says "Unknown command :F1" 22:33:52 according to the docs, that is the command to set the frame limit. What happens if you type ":fl nil"? Or ":fl 100000" and then do ":Bt"? That should show you more frames. 22:34:27 ":f1 nil" -> "Unknown command :F1" 22:34:37 Hey wait a minute 22:34:41 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:51 You said Fl, not F1! Sorry! 22:35:51 Well, unfortunately, :fl, :fl nil and :fl 10000 only says "Unknown command :FL" 22:37:47 I can't find docs for the debugger, so I'm a bit lost. 22:37:50 what about :bt 1000000 22:38:49 1 > :bt 100000 22:38:49 Unknown command :BT 22:38:49 1 > :b 100000 22:38:49 Incorrect keyword arguments in (100000) . 22:38:49 1 > 22:39:04 (Sorry about the spam) 22:39:07 OldContrarian, (:b :count 10000) 22:39:58 -!- strobegen [~Adium@62.33.153.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:07 Thanks - the bottom message is still the same one though, the one about ASDF. So it seems I did get all frames earlier too. 22:42:06 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:03 -!- LiamH [~healy@132.250.138.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:39 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:45 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:51 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:34 You've all been very patient, I appreciate you trying to help me. 22:47:00 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.143.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:53 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:32 I'll post a question about this problem to the quicklisp people tomorrow. 22:50:00 smithzv [~user@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:05 Don't wait for tomorrow, you never know when somebody with the answer will pass by the channel and provide an answer. Those channels are logged, and people tend to stay connected 24/24 7/7 anyways. 22:52:55 Well, it's nearly midnight and I'm tired, and I have a long drive ahead of me tomorrow... 22:53:29 pjb: Btw, what channel specifically are you talking about? An IRC channel? 22:57:01 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:57:06 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:57:08 Probably most Lisp-related channels, such as this one. 22:57:45 *OldContrarian* nods. 23:03:08 OldContrarian: yes most lisp-related channels. 23:03:10 minion: logs? 23:03:10 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 23:03:20 cf http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs 23:03:26 seangrove [~user@2600:1013:b012:ccb8:cd7c:5caf:64df:ed4b] has joined #lisp 23:03:40 Wow, that's interesting. 23:04:19 Now, write a NLP lisp program to parse and analyses all those logs, so that you can get a summary of all the lisp knowledge that flew in thise channel ever. 23:04:26 s/thise/this/ 23:05:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:05:44 -!- sh-armv7l [~sthalik@2001:41d0:2:9d7b:cafe::1042] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:38 OldContrarian: the bottom line of the backtrace *should* be the invocation of the quicklisp install function.... 23:08:48 segv- [~mb@cpeB-151.mvcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:14 rpg: I'll take your word for it. :-) 23:09:22 rpg, is that true even over EVAL and COMPILE boundaries? :) 23:09:39 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:09:41 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:08 Quadrescence: should be.... There's context that lives over those boundaries. 23:10:59 Quadrescence: E.g., (let ((*package* :my-package)) (eval (read-from-string program-string))) 23:11:37 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:00 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:12:06 yeah I don't actually see an issue with EVAL 23:13:38 Bed time for me. Thanks for all the help guys, see you tomorrow. 23:15:14 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:15:54 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:19:06 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:20:10 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.202.202] has joined #lisp 23:20:19 goodnight all 23:20:20 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:21:03 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:21:38 Adlai` [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:25:26 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-59-229.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:34 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:28:46 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 23:29:13 ozialien_ [~ernest@ip98-167-234-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:25 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:20 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-126-206.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:21 davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:49 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 23:35:55 -!- wohonajax [~wohonajax@108-231-174-248.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:15 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:25 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:11 -!- seangrove [~user@2600:1013:b012:ccb8:cd7c:5caf:64df:ed4b] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:35 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:45:49 Hi friends. Can anyone resolve www.lrde.epita.fr? I can't. Trying to figure out how local the problem is. 23:45:57 That is Didier Verna's site for his lisp code. 23:46:48 fraid not. 23:46:57 nope 23:47:17 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1ED8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:39 Fooey. Thanks for trying. 23:50:39 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.51.106] has joined #lisp 23:51:32 *Xach* contacts didier 23:51:46 dcxi [~dcxi@18.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:25 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:56 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:59:26 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp