00:00:20 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:00:29 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@68.Red-83-42-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:41 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-104.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:02:17 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-74-78-179-243.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 00:03:53 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-150-20.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:34 jasom: why not use free()? 00:05:38 -!- haxx [~Rob@135.23.80.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:05:45 though in practice i think you can 00:07:17 oGMo: I'm using free now. foreign-free appears to not be guaranteed to call free() 00:07:45 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:08:04 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:33 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:08:41 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:08:51 is there a way of applying a transformation matrix in lispbuilder-sdl-gfx? 00:09:03 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:10:05 how is of-type supposed to work? CL-USER(9): ((alexandria:of-type 'sequence) nil) Error: Illegal function object: (ALEXANDRIA.0.DEV:OF-TYPE 'SEQUENCE). [condition type: TYPE-ERROR] 00:10:19 (...similar error in SBCL) 00:10:24 william-cushing: funcall 00:10:28 d'oh 00:10:34 this ain't scheme 00:10:42 racko [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 00:11:00 indeed, realized as soon as you said funcall :) 00:11:57 harish_ [~harish@175.156.85.102] has joined #lisp 00:12:21 BTW, how did the ((lambda )) exception to the rule get into the standard? 00:13:10 wasn't it something to do with islisp 00:13:28 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.83.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:13:29 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:13:59 I guess lispbuilder-sdl-gfx doesn't support it. I guess I'll end up learning cl-opengl 00:14:02 Dunno. 00:14:55 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:01 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 00:21:20 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.187] has joined #lisp 00:22:55 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime terminated into perpetual deadlock] 00:29:16 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-168-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:29:51 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:15 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.85.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:18 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-62-251.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-193-164.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:24 capitaomorte [~capitaomo@66.207.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:38:49 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:39:02 -!- francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:c9ad:b86c:5f59:18ce] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:03 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:39:12 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-104.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 00:42:24 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:26 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:45:10 -!- seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has quit [Quit: adios amigos] 00:45:33 hmm 00:45:37 anybody here using limp? 00:46:23 I'm wondering how to split the buffer to be able to see sbcl at the same time as I type in vim 00:48:28 ah, there seems to be a dedicated channel 00:49:13 danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@5.144.63.25] has joined #lisp 00:49:41 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:50:07 InvalidCo: let me recommend emacs+slime+evil 00:50:48 InvalidCo: I use vim outside of lisp-dev and find it to be better than slimv or limp 00:51:03 meh 00:51:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:41 I've tried emacs, but I don't really dig the whole scene that comes with it 00:52:00 I'm not even fairly certain if you described a combination of software or a keyboard shortcut! 00:52:06 *ba-dum-tsih* 00:52:12 *jasom* wasn't aware there was a scene 00:52:21 evil is a vim emulation layer for emacs 00:52:43 oh! 00:52:56 my apologies, I averted my eyes the second I saw emacs 00:52:57 oh well 00:53:01 haha 00:54:03 About the only thing you *really* need to know that is emacs specific is that C-g gets you out of most emacs commands should you accidentally get in one. There's a script to make Esc do that though if you prefer 00:54:22 ^G rather in non-emacs speak 00:55:11 it's possible to get into an emacs command? 00:55:21 by accident? 00:55:32 InvalidCo: yes, keybindings that are in emacs that aren't defined in vim still work when in insert mode 00:56:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:56:07 heh 00:56:10 sounds like a blast 00:56:18 ... I find this amusing, if only for how there's a lecturer at my university who expressed disbelief at me not combusting spontaneously from using & liking *both* ViM and Emacs 00:56:38 (although my ViM-fu atrophied heavily, need to relearn) 00:57:33 well vim is not all that different from emacs. nvi really carries the anti-emacs flag of the old vi users 00:57:58 if you have 5 embedded scripting languages and take over a second to startup when opening a moderate sized file, you might as well be emacs 00:58:50 hehe 00:58:58 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@254-85.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:18 Main reason I kept any Vi is because it was ubiquitely available (and I'm talking Vi, not ViM) 00:59:31 Open a file with a 1MB line in vim vs nvi for example 01:00:21 main reason I like vim is modes 01:00:30 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:00:33 InvalidCo: me too. evil gives you those 01:01:10 I also like the fact that most shortcuts in vim just require you to be in a mode and type in a sequence of keys 01:01:27 which is often derived from the english language name for the command 01:02:00 as opposed to doing acrobatics and pushing the various astronaut-control-buttons at the same time 01:02:32 InvalidCo: that's primarily enabled by modes 01:02:37 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:37 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:02:38 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 01:02:41 mm 01:02:48 I've never noticed really any speed differences 01:02:50 Smushers [~smushers@pool-108-48-214-17.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:52 InvalidCo: part of the acrobatics is caused by people being weirdly hung on using one hand to type commands... 01:02:52 even on older hardware 01:03:21 mainly due to the fact that I use hex editors for things that are not code or plaintext 01:03:39 p_l: hey, where my other hand is while I'm writing exciting code is none of the interface-designers business 01:05:08 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 01:05:14 I actually think that +sequences are a lot slower than ,sequences 01:05:18 -!- danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@5.144.63.25] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewi-1] 01:05:46 since if you type ctrl+alt+b, you'll push ctrl and alt down before b 01:06:03 and then the average user will let go of b before of ctrl and alt 01:06:11 perhaps even sequencing the ctrl and the alt 01:06:36 then, as you need at least one modifier to use any key of the alphabet, you'll be severely limited with expressibility 01:06:36 *zRecursive* i am a VI(M) user before, but now i cannot leave Emacs every day :) 01:08:54 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:59 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:13:13 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:28 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:17:58 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:12 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.187] has joined #lisp 01:18:59 hmh 01:19:16 I just needed to screen -r from another terminal 01:19:18 handy! 01:20:59 ASau [~user@p54AFFD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:23:05 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:26:02 -!- capitaomorte [~capitaomo@66.207.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:27:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:24 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 01:29:46 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 01:31:15 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:51 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:33:13 -!- racko [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:33:24 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 01:33:43 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:15 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:32 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.102.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:34 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:42:55 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:43:32 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:19 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 01:49:55 emacs is the big time suck 01:50:06 "Since I got a GF my ~/.emacs.d/init.el has gone to hell" 01:50:27 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:55:57 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@203.Red-83-33-82.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 01:56:20 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-hqdbnjomfgfgzbkq] has joined #lisp 01:57:37 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@187.208.208.196] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 01:57:57 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:58:45 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 01:59:00 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:01:09 francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:2566:7b95:394b:9162] has joined #lisp 02:03:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.208.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:08:37 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:09:40 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 02:10:20 -!- pjb [~t@90.24.199.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:10 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:12:22 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:12:43 michael_lee [~michael@117.22.94.38] has joined #lisp 02:15:44 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 02:16:36 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 02:18:09 -!- michael_lee [~michael@117.22.94.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:17 michael_lee [~michael@117.22.94.38] has joined #lisp 02:21:06 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 02:23:42 vinodh42 [uid16887@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbklckkilfliuycm] has joined #lisp 02:24:25 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:40 I'm working in clojure and finding the tooling somewhat unpredicatble. For example, the JVM just crashed on me, killing my REPL. Does this sort of thing happen often in CL? 02:26:07 i used to get unicode crashes but i haven't for at least a year, i suppose 02:26:30 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:46 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:29:31 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:31:19 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:29 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:45 strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has joined #lisp 02:36:52 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:38:27 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:40:35 -!- jk121960 [~jk121960@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:43:53 I crash my CL image occasionally, usually it feels predictable in retrospect. 02:44:13 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:44:13 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:44:13 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:47:26 -!- francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:2566:7b95:394b:9162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:21 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.242.95] has joined #lisp 02:54:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.242.95] has quit [Changing host] 02:54:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:54:34 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:55:41 -!- william-cushing [80202773@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.32.39.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:56:17 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 02:57:10 -!- lyanchih 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seconds] 07:43:36 -!- guyal [~anonymous@75-27-242-104.lightspeed.gldlca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 07:47:05 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.148.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:27 lysias [~nobody@zenith.vaikuntha.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:49:29 oxum [~oxum@122.164.211.113] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.161.133.11] has joined #lisp 07:52:26 Bardamu [~Bardamu@unaffiliated/bardamu] has joined #lisp 07:52:31 Hello 07:52:46 what is the function for having the first caracter of a string ? 07:54:28 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.115.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:54:41 (char string 0) 07:55:42 Bike: thanks a lot! 07:56:11 does it exist something like cdr for a string ? :D 07:56:53 I just want to remove the first caracter 07:56:57 Bardamu: (subseq string 1) 07:59:48 thanks a lot! 08:00:41 Note that unlike cdr, that is linear in the size of the sequence. Doing it in a loop would be a bad idea. 08:04:06 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.211.113] has quit [Quit: ...] 08:08:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:09:31 (cdr (coerce string 'list)) 8-D 08:10:15 nthcdr 08:11:00 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0016.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 08:12:34 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 08:12:55 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:12:55 ahaha :D 08:17:07 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 08:19:37 wow. nice day. 08:19:42 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:20:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 08:20:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:21:28 guyal [~anonymous@75-27-242-104.lightspeed.psdnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:45 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has 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-!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0019.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: BBL] 12:07:25 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 12:07:53 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.19.162] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:09:19 blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:34 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 12:10:27 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:42 blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:33 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 12:11:33 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 12:14:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-15-178.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:18:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:21:45 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:23:45 -!- gejr [152919@unaffiliated/gejr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:24:34 entitativity [~entity@c-24-6-95-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:28:03 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:29:15 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.218.108] has joined #lisp 12:32:42 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:53 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:37:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:41:00 -!- hs366 [~hs366@94.254.45.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:27 eMBee: well, yeah, looks like I just didn't get the idea of that APPEND. 12:41:54 eMBee: sorry, I didn't notice your memo. 12:44:14 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 12:45:15 hitecnologys: no trouble, just didn't want that to get lost... 12:47:21 eMBee: you can use minion. I consider this as more convenient way to leave memos for someone on #lisp. 12:48:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-88.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:48:44 oxum [~oxum@122.164.211.113] has joined #lisp 12:48:45 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:49:29 ah, sorry, i'll try to remember that 12:49:53 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:53 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 12:50:04 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:50:29 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:31 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-9-162.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:43 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 12:53:54 -!- ranek [~konny@147.142.83.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:36 Should I use AREF or ELT for 1d arrays? 12:58:54 aref 12:59:21 Is there any actual difference? 12:59:33 in performance 13:00:07 What about vectors then? 13:00:29 what about them? 13:00:51 ELT or AREF too? 13:00:57 you just asked that 13:01:51 Ah, I thought that vectors (made with VECTOR) are somehow different from 1d arrays (made by MAKE-ARRAY). 13:02:19 they aren't 13:02:33 if you have declarations, there will be no difference between elt and aref 13:02:49 but i don't like excessive declarations 13:03:19 and if you only have unspecialized vectors, then SVREF will be the fastest, declarations or not 13:04:39 Got it. Thanks. 13:04:45 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:05:29 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:05:39 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:46 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-240-218-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:52 -!- gilberth [~gilbert@d093248.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:09:54 echo-area [~user@123.120.237.231] has joined #lisp 13:12:29 good morning 13:12:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 or afternoon (..) 13:13:10 *dim* takes note to use svref each time a simple-vector is expected 13:13:15 -!- d4gg4d_ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egskcmwxnrxrxlpi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:30 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uldxwisbxbrbpmnr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:31 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxusgwrpfjpvxfce] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:32 -!- ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdvagxmmogqolavb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:45 -!- sepeth [uid16350@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uicgjxfcxzkltzrz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:47 -!- vinodh42 [uid16887@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbklckkilfliuycm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:03 -!- wilfredh [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxpmrbkiayujmore] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:06 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eujatuvrvfemdriy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:07 -!- qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pywbfxscrvumikgs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:30 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 13:17:36 wilfredh [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pmhnuhxyvhnillvt] has joined #lisp 13:19:57 francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:cdf5:c08f:2607:4e17] has joined #lisp 13:21:04 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrrpmmcihvulqbeh] has joined #lisp 13:22:29 dim: don't expect simple-vectors! This is a bother. 13:23:03 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:23:17 dim: do expect simple-vectors, just to annoy pjb 13:23:41 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:23:50 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 Imagine you couldn't use REPLACE on a vector displaced to a 5D array! How happy would that make you? 13:26:48 sepeth [uid16350@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bexpvvzfufxjupxi] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:31:23 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:31:32 vinodh42 [~uid16887@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edxbnrheeoaooujs] has joined #lisp 13:31:40 I don't remember a case where I would expect something else than a vector 13:31:41 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gwmjpbzkcdwkajda] has joined #lisp 13:31:51 it's really rare to deal with 2d or more IME 13:32:13 svref makes it explicit that the code is not ready to deal with dimensions 13:32:36 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 dim: sv part is not about dimensions 13:32:56 but about specialization and simplicity 13:33:01 d4gg4d_ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqltnlfoqdgovmph] has joined #lisp 13:33:18 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:19 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujvkhbkwgclopied] has joined #lisp 13:33:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@151-083.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:48 exa tly 13:34:14 I don't want my code to pretend it's not specialized when I'd rather it was 13:35:23 Joreji [~thomas@151-083.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:48 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 13:36:35 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:37:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:00 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:39:26 once declared with e.g. (declare (type (simple-array simple-base-string (*)) table)), aref and svref are compiled down to the same thing? 13:39:47 no 13:39:50 segv- [~mb@95-91-240-218-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:51 svref doesn't work at all on that type 13:39:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:17 simple-array and simple-vector are not the same thing then? 13:40:18 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:34 nope 13:40:53 where can I read about that? 13:41:17 are there too many places? 13:41:20 clhs simple-vector 13:41:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_smp_ve.htm 13:41:21 I though that a 1d array was a vector, so that a 1d simple-array would be a simple-vector 13:41:33 it is confusing, i agree 13:42:52 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:43:04 (simple-vector *) is the same as (simple-array t (*)) then? 13:43:13 so it's less specific IIUC 13:43:17 correct 13:44:07 -!- vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:07 so it's better to declare a specialized simple-array and use aref compared to using svref on a less-specialized (by definition) simple-vector, then? 13:44:49 svref can be used only on a non-specialized (there are no degrees of specialization) 13:44:56 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [Client Quit] 13:45:11 qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nreezyaxmaohkxlm] has joined #lisp 13:45:14 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 13:45:21 oh I was trying to say that non-specialized is less-specialized than specialized 13:46:20 it's less-ambiguous to says "non" 13:46:28 right 13:46:31 ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwuwkojjauqfqddo] has joined #lisp 13:46:33 learning curve and all that 13:46:55 if you really meant (simple-array SIMPLE-BASE-STRING (*)), then svref will most probably work, since there will be no simple-base-string specialization, but i assumed you meant BASE-CHAR, or just (simple-base-string *) 13:47:58 (declare (type (simple-array simple-base-string (*)) table)) is code I have here in the int-to-ip implementation I picked from yours 13:48:45 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:42 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:47 here simple-base-string will only play the role of deriving the type of the result of AREF 13:50:28 and it may break on an implementation where simple-base-string is actually specializable 13:50:47 i'm sure pjb would love to write such an implementation 13:51:11 -!- galdor_ [~galdor@78.193.58.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:51:44 shamaz [~user@ip-95-220-21-213.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:52:01 though if you pass :element-type 'simple-base-string to make-array, all should be well 13:53:07 https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/master/src/transforms.lisp#L98 13:53:13 apparently this needs fixing then 13:53:25 but well ATM pgloader is kind of SBCL only 13:53:47 that will work everywhere 13:53:53 there really is no reason to have such a specialization 13:54:21 fine then ;-) 13:54:25 galdor [~galdor@78.193.58.122] has joined #lisp 13:55:04 but having :element-type 'simple-base-string wouldn't hurt it in any way 13:55:26 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:20 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:58:33 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-26-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:56 paul0 [~paul0@187.59.58.211] has joined #lisp 14:00:05 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-71-178-197-128.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:50 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 14:01:12 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-26-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:01:21 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:06:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:25 ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:05 and i've found a microoptimization for inlined concatenate 14:12:16 Hello. I have some questions about SBCL. Is it possible to make my own numerical type (for example, packed SSE values) and define arithmetical/logical operations on that type? With substitution of #'+ with ADDPS assembly operation when it is possible, for example. I know that SBCL has simd-pack type, but we cannot call #'+/#'-/etc with values of that type and it is not numerical (I mean, (typep (sb-vm::%make-simd-pack-single 0.0 0.0 0.0 14:12:16 0.0) 'number) is NIL, for example). What I must do? 14:13:18 shamaz: #lisp is unlikely to provide an answer 14:13:22 try #sbcl or sbcl-devel 14:13:46 Oh, OK. Thanks anyway 14:13:55 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 would a (defmethod + ((x your-type)) ...) work here? 14:15:55 no 14:15:57 + is not a generic function 14:16:50 then make a generic function in your package and shadow cl:+ maybe? 14:17:27 CLOS is entirely not suitable for this 14:17:59 it will kill any advantages of using packed add with its overhead 14:18:01 SIMD vectors are more like containers than numbers anyway 14:18:06 Anyway, this will not replace call to my + with assembly instruction when types is known at compile time. 14:18:13 I read the question as operator overloading and tried to think of a proper CL implementation for that 14:18:14 I need VOP's here 14:18:31 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:18:36 shamaz: you're better off devining a function plus and translating it with a VOP 14:19:22 or add, or what have you 14:19:27 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:11 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 14:20:19 And I need to modify TWO-ARGS-+/- to make it work when type is not known at compile time, yes? 14:20:19 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ztanfkbfgdekaxwj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:47 that is if you want to use +, which i did not advise 14:22:06 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:48 That sounds questionable. + is supposed to add numbers: how would you add, say, a complex number and an SIMD vector? 14:22:52 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 14:23:16 Better to have another operator with clear semantics IMO. 14:24:20 So better solution is to define functions with different names, for example, SSE-+ or SSE--? Oh, I want polymorphism and integration with lisp type system :) 14:24:49 do you? 14:25:00 Is it bad idea? 14:25:27 yes 14:25:40 polymorphism and dynamic typing, head hurts 14:25:57 minion: cl-simd? 14:25:57 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-simd''. 14:26:06 you can use already provided https://github.com/angavrilov/cl-simd 14:26:50 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tejeqnmvxpdqduxu] has joined #lisp 14:27:20 Oh, and I have another question about SBCL. Mind if I ask it here? 14:27:30 no 14:29:02 -!- francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:cdf5:c08f:2607:4e17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:15 Oops, sorry. Does it mean, that I "can" ask it here. My English is too bad :) 14:29:28 it means "i don't mind" 14:29:50 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:50 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:29:50 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:30:13 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:30:31 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:42 Ok. So, can you tell what is the difference between a VOP and "assembly routine" (I found assembly routines in src/assembly/target/arith.lisp")? 14:31:21 Both of them seems to be generatings some assembly code 14:31:47 assembly routine is a function implemented in assembly, which is located in the static space and can be called just as other functions 14:32:03 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 Ok. No more questions. Thank you 14:32:19 but it's hard-coded which registers it uses and there's no indirection when it's called 14:32:20 -!- hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.89.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:27 consequently, it is more efficient 14:33:09 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:20 VOP is a piece of assembly code, which is used to implement primitive operations, it cannot be called as function, but functions are build by combining several VOPs 14:33:44 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 14:35:42 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:02 and if you are thinking, no, you do not have to implement your own arithmetic routines as assembly routines 14:36:07 A VOP defines how a function-like thing can be inlined into the caller as a sequence of hand-written assembly instructions 14:36:29 in fact, you do not have to implement anything, since angavrilov did that for you 14:36:35 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-162-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:12 Then you can have a weird-looking definition similar to (defun foo (args) (foo args)) with some type annotations etc, which makes total sense, since the inner foo is inlined via VOP 14:37:57 that can also happen by using source/ir1 transforms 14:38:08 You mean, defknown, yes? 14:38:21 defknown is a glorified declaim 14:39:53 -!- ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:14 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:52 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:44:15 rtoym_ [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 14:44:37 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 14:45:08 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 14:46:11 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:46:19 -!- rtoym_ is now known as rtoym 14:47:22 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tejeqnmvxpdqduxu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:47:52 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:58 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has joined #lisp 14:49:06 slarti [~anonymous@75-148-39-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:48 dcxi [~dcxi@83.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:24 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@151-083.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:11 francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:8d69:3160:c47b:8e66] has joined #lisp 14:51:13 about run time code generation, in linux, will this write in the ELF code section of the binary file? 14:51:41 Joreji [~thomas@151-083.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:03 no, it will be put into memory allocated with MMAP 14:52:12 -!- shamaz [~user@ip-95-220-21-213.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:52:25 will this work with grsecurity and the like? 14:52:45 I think linux can be told to consider non CODE segments as non allowed to be executed 14:53:48 that's what mprotect is for 14:53:49 LoicLisp [~loic@96.24.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:57 oh, discovering that... you need to have some capabilities to do that maybe? I guess by default you have them? 14:55:09 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:55:16 you meaning the user process where sbcl is currently running 14:55:39 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:55:48 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 14:55:49 sbcl also disables address space randomization 14:55:59 but it doesn't do anything else on its own 14:56:11 yeah I had a bug report about that for pgloader 14:56:19 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:56:24 https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/15 14:56:33 You have to treat is as any kind of JIT-based VM 14:56:35 sbcl (1.0.57.0.debian) refuse to run with address randomization on x86_64 so I needed to deactivate it during the conversion with echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/randomize_va_space 14:57:01 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:57:23 i have 2 in randomize_va_space 14:57:57 sbcl requests a non-random personality 14:58:18 Maybe there are some stupid kernel patches that make it ignore such attributes 14:58:34 grsecurity comes to mind 14:59:01 maybe sbcl 1.0.57.0 didn't do that by itself, or maybe the debian packaging disables that behavior? 14:59:18 it did do that 15:00:14 http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-common-lisp/sbcl.git;a=tree;f=debian/patches;h=aafe20cb84e105c6181df6f123a29d2a5fe29acb;hb=HEAD 15:02:04 not seeing it, but well 15:04:39 ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@151-083.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:01 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:49 dim: did you send a pull request to postmodern? 15:07:04 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fmnadvddpipckuqw] has joined #lisp 15:07:20 issues yes, with code yes, as a pull request I don't remember, I think I did 15:08:48 or it already does support unix sockets? 15:09:50 the best would be to add support to usocket and then for postmodern to use it 15:13:22 gilberth [~gilbert@d023005.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:08 oh, postmodern does have unix domain sockets support 15:15:17 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:15:19 https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/commit/4bc4cc53a77dcdbdd1046a958cfaf04454a97043 15:15:25 and now so does pgloader 15:19:56 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:00 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.36.89.238] has joined #lisp 15:24:45 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-160-0-102.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:04 -!- ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:27:34 stassats: doesn't usocket have UNIX sockets support? 15:27:57 ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:48 hitecnologys: postmodern doesn't use usocket on sbcl 15:29:04 for an unknown to me reason 15:29:47 stassats: hmm, weird. 15:29:53 -!- ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:58 and usocket does not support unix domain sockets 15:30:28 ranek [~konny@dhcp563-138.laptop-wlc.uni-heidelberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:00 But why? Is it so hard to implement? 15:31:17 no 15:31:39 well postmodern do support unix domain sockets 15:31:49 by using sb-bsd-sockets direcyl 15:31:54 yes 15:32:03 That's not good at all. 15:32:19 I think Marijn would accept patches 15:32:23 look ma, one less dependency 15:32:52 -!- d4gg4d_ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqltnlfoqdgovmph] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:32:53 stassats: I'd rather prefer dependency than lots of conditional expressions in code. 15:33:08 while at it a way to pass in the directory where to look for sockets in the connection properties (a list) would be good too 15:33:47 currently I have to play with cl-postgres:*unix-socket-dir* 15:34:47 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@117.36.89.238] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:35:11 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.36.89.238] has joined #lisp 15:35:19 -!- slarti [~anonymous@75-148-39-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:40 ranek1 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quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:05:35 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@107-219-7-73.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:35 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:06:48 xotedend [~quassel@c-50-134-32-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:52 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 19:09:48 *jaimef* hunts for a gui toolkit that is portable over all three platforms 19:11:43 -!- ggole [~ggole@203-214-149-159.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:12:01 xol [~user@host88.190-138-33.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:12:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:12:55 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:00 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:18:22 is there an equivalent to SYMBOL-VALUE for lexical variables? 19:18:28 nope 19:18:56 maybe you misunderstand lexical variables 19:19:12 -!- guyal [~anonymous@75-27-242-104.lightspeed.psdnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 19:19:47 i just want to iterate through a list of variables that may contain numbers and modify them if so 19:23:28 i'll use an alist instead 19:24:59 subtlepath: this is the macro I use for that: http://paste.lisp.org/display/140261 19:25:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:26:41 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:28:41 xol` [~user@host168.190-138-228.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 -!- xol [~user@host88.190-138-33.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:39 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Quit: leaving] 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[~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:22 jaimef: GNUstep. 19:54:34 All right, Qt too. 19:54:40 if you're into commercial stuff. 19:55:14 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 19:55:24 pjb: Is this a quiz? 19:55:52 <|3b|> pjb: any function name would work, as long as you defined a local setf function for it 19:56:26 |3b|: look again, it's supposed to modify local lexical variables. 19:56:39 <|3b|> pjb: right, the function has to be local to that LET 19:56:43 xol`` [~user@host200.186-109-194.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:56:44 antoszka: it's a mockery, I'm sorry. :-( 19:57:08 <|3b|> easier if you don't require it to work with SETF though 19:57:22 Indeed. Bonus point for |3b|. 19:57:25 this question is baffling 19:58:04 Bike: ok, I'm lame at mockery. I tried to impersonate a newbie with no concept of vector. 19:58:46 yeah, i can see that, i'm just trying to figure out how i'll have to answer it when someone inevitably actually asks 19:58:53 mc40 [~mcheema@164.138.80.236] has joined #lisp 19:59:03 -!- xol` [~user@host168.190-138-228.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:59:08 <|3b|> Bike: correct answer is "don't do that" 19:59:14 use vectors. 19:59:15 <|3b|> or "you can't" 19:59:32 <|3b|> right, some data structure instead of variables would be better 19:59:44 With (let ((v0 1) (v1 2) (v2 3) (v3 4)) (let ((i (random 4))) (??? i -1 -1) (member -1 (list v0 v1 v2 v3)))) 20:00:08 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 20:00:16 we could say ??? = (lambda (index value) (ecase index in ((0) (setf v0 value)) ((1) (setf v1 value)) ((2) (setf v2 value)) ((3) (setf v3 value)))) 20:02:47 *|3b|* wonders if for the setf case you could do something evil with a macroexpansion that would modify a global setf function to call a locally defined closure 20:03:09 <|3b|> actually, i think you could 20:03:36 With define-setf-expander I guess so yes. 20:03:43 <|3b|> if (??? x) is a macro that expands to (foo x (lambda (index value) ...)) 20:04:04 or like that yes. 20:05:52 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:53 bondar [~bondar@41.206.60.62] has joined #lisp 20:05:53 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:05:53 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 20:07:02 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@187.208.137.232] has joined #lisp 20:09:32 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@164.138.80.236] has quit [Quit: mc40] 20:10:50 -!- bondar [~bondar@41.206.60.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:12:18 -!- xotedend [~quassel@c-50-134-32-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:15:49 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:17:50 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:20:38 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:23:41 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:24:55 nha [~prefect@koln-5d81424b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:49 stardiviner [~stardivin@60.186.114.82] has joined #lisp 20:33:55 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 20:35:36 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-82-201.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 20:37:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:15 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB1E01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 xol``` [~user@181.95.18.248] has joined #lisp 20:41:01 -!- xol`` [~user@host200.186-109-194.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:43:55 trof [~trof@86.57.191.74] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:45:25 knob [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-39-253.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:53 -!- knob [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-39-253.coqui.net] has left #lisp 20:50:32 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:48 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:51:00 -!- capitaomorte [~capitaomo@66.207.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:07 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:56:46 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:11 Bardamu [~Bardamu@unaffiliated/bardamu] has joined #lisp 20:57:13 Hi 20:57:42 I'm doing a sqrt and I have too many digits after the . 20:57:52 I just want two digits after the . 20:57:55 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:59 does it exist a function for it ? 20:59:26 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:59:50 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:05 -!- nenorbot [~ronen@bzq-79-183-117-215.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:07 (format nil "~,2f" pi) 21:01:31 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:32 but now it's a string 21:02:55 I want to use this value to put it in a plist 21:03:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:03:02 Why would you want to reduce the precision of a number? 21:03:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:03:23 <|3b|> if you are worried about "digits" you probably shouldn't be using binary floating point in the first place 21:03:58 Bike: just for the esthetic 21:04:15 <|3b|> if you only care how it looks, keep the full precision and round it on printing 21:04:49 I want that it stays a real number 21:05:22 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.59.58.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:42 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:05:57 <|3b|> well, CL doesn't have any "decimal" number types, and doesn't let you directly control the precision even for binary types 21:06:45 <|3b|> so either keep precision and print it nicely later if needed, store an integral multiple of 1/100, or store a string 21:07:29 ok 21:07:36 I think I will let it like this 21:09:10 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.110.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:11 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3ACA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@60.186.114.82] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 21:09:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@151-083.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:12:01 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzzz] 21:12:24 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 21:16:34 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:17:22 -!- xol``` is now known as xol 21:19:33 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:20:27 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:21:06 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-33-137.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:22:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:37 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:23:52 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-163-220.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:00 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-163-220.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:18 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-163-220.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:32 Bardamu: you can round it if you like, but it's probably better to keep full precision and print it at reduced precision 21:26:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-5.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:26 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 21:28:40 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 21:29:24 nevermind ^^ 21:29:38 my teacher is a teacher of artificial intelligence 21:29:52 I don't know if she will like my program 21:30:05 I'm doing a system expert for demonstrating geometry theorems :D 21:30:39 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.251] has joined #lisp 21:30:47 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9FCF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has quit [] 21:32:02 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:35:32 urandom__ [~user@ip-37-201-129-88.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:17 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:44:55 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:51:28 l_ [~N02CC01@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 21:52:36 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:24 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-240-218-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:54:49 -!- l_ [~N02CC01@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 21:55:31 drmeister 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