00:00:03 same here 00:00:23 everyone goes through the bling phase 00:00:39 cool 00:00:40 if you follow the bling phase to its end, you end up with plain text ... back at the beginning 00:00:44 I've been piping IRC into my slime repl. I think it has been bad for productivity. 00:00:47 I actually like bling 00:00:56 Vivitron: nice :) 00:01:08 or rather, I'm not averse to it; there are times when it can improve the experience 00:01:11 jasom: i want plain text bling, tron style 00:01:13 :) 00:01:25 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:44 and there are definitely times people could be reminded that there is a real person with a face that goes along with that irc nic... 00:01:44 like necopost themes 00:02:06 sellout- [~Adium@97-118-164-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:09 anyway I think we are OT 00:03:11 -!- sellout- [~Adium@97-118-164-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:15 sellout-1 [~Adium@97-118-164-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:25 one day tron will true but in virtual 00:03:28 nota_bene [~benedikt@46-75-165.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #lisp 00:03:41 not the movie shows us 00:03:54 :) 00:04:22 oaulakh: ... 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[~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-38-0.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:19 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:05:30 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:17 -!- xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:17:47 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:49 -!- kangkung [~user@36.79.177.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:43 -!- brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 01:23:17 xk05 [~xk05@30.176-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:52 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 01:27:44 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:07 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 01:29:36 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:30 -!- brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:35:15 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:38 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.105.163] has joined #lisp 01:40:11 syunull [~syunull@unaffiliated/syunull] has joined #lisp 01:41:34 strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has joined #lisp 01:53:16 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.28.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:57:45 how do i sort a list of format ((whatever . number) (somethingelse . number) ...) by number? 01:58:06 :key #'cdr in your sort call 01:58:20 so (sort list #'< :key #'cdr). 01:58:49 thx 01:59:24 exactly what i was looking for :D 02:00:45 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:46 -!- 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quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:43:52 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 03:45:20 -!- brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:31 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has joined #lisp 03:48:15 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:22 -!- delYsid` [~user@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:28 delYsid` [~user@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #lisp 03:51:12 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 04:07:03 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:59 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:47 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:16 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-3-172-126.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:52 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 04:24:12 winsoff [~foo@66.205.211.43] has joined #lisp 04:24:21 Are set theory problems easily modeled in lisp? 04:24:40 More easily than other languages, as Lisp is about lists. 04:25:16 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:16 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:26:43 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:28:13 I wouldn't say that. 04:29:11 lists are pretty bad at implementing sets 04:29:16 <|3b|> lists probably aren't the best representation for sets anyway, if they are large enough for programming language to matter 04:29:31 (right, if your sets are small it doesn't matter) 04:29:45 What is more important is that CL has limited support even for FOL. 04:30:02 First order language? 04:30:07 logic. 04:30:13 Of course, you can add it. 04:30:45 But then why not to look for another language that may be more capable in that? 04:30:55 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:31:56 Oh; what is a better language for sets? 04:32:16 I don't know. 04:32:35 The last time I worked with set theory was more than a decade ago. 04:32:42 *|3b|* would guess all are the same, unless you find one designed for (or with a library for) your specific task 04:33:00 I'd start from looking at ATPs. 04:33:02 i'd use coq or something 04:33:04 yeah. 04:33:21 Coq may be good. 04:33:31 There're HOL, Isabelle, Mizar. 04:33:36 What else? 04:33:37 -!- eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 04:33:50 <|3b|> at least relative to their general strengths/weaknesses, so CL might be good due to being generally flexible, even if it doesn't do anything for the specific task 04:33:51 ACL^2, but I'm not sure that you'll like it. 04:34:39 It all depends on what exactly he wants. 04:34:51 I was just asking in a general sense, as I often do. 04:35:01 Well... 04:35:18 If you need ATP, then either you're going to implement it or take one off the shelf. 04:35:19 there's a lot of possible sense of "set theory problems". 04:35:33 Bike: I agree. 04:36:07 It's like with "optimization". 04:36:08 Bike: Mostly the ability to declare a set and perform set functions (preferably all of them). 04:36:26 There are a limited amount of functions in set theory, including union, intersect, yadda yadda. 04:36:29 <|3b|> well, if you don't need huge sets, there are some setoperations for lists 04:36:36 I met a person who used to solve NLP problems by searching for an answer on regular grid. :D 04:36:51 http://i.imgur.com/xpircxi.png 04:36:56 -!- rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 04:36:58 happened to be reading about sets 04:36:59 <|3b|> otherwise bit arrays might be useful 04:37:09 <|3b|> bitvectors i mean 04:37:10 winsoff: there you go, that's different from the sense ASau and i were thinking of, namely automatic theorem proving. 04:37:11 I think that someone is almost always reading about sets. 04:37:49 also there are in fact an unlimited number of functions in set theory, you just picked some common ones :p 04:38:07 Ah, I see. Now my novice is fleshed out; when it comes to theorems, are set theorems not proven through mere set operations and axioms? 04:38:10 "Unlimited" is rather weak term. :D 04:38:20 Or are these operations not completely understood as raw axioms? 04:38:26 Besides, it isn't yet clear which set theory you mean. 04:38:34 winsoff: well, for example, in proving that the real numbers are uncountable you're not actually going to compute any set unions. 04:38:35 Perhaps you're ultra-finitist. 04:38:55 ASau: i considered mentioning that but then remembered that ultrafinitists are just funny 04:39:21 Bike: What would you do to prove that via programming, anyway? 04:39:31 use a theorem prover, I guess? 04:39:43 I would like to see an uncountable() in a higher level language someday. 04:39:43 It's a totally different problem. 04:39:59 Have you thought about what "an uncountable()" would actually mean? 04:40:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:40:42 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:43 Testing the constructed list against predetermined criteria already defined in the library. =D 04:40:59 Bike: careful, if he's finitist, he could do that quite easy. 04:41:33 winsoff: that's close to meaningless, you know? 04:41:55 Bike: I was being facetious. 04:42:03 hard to tell 04:42:08 Why did I highlight you? I am so stupid. 04:42:36 I should really try learning programming languages in more depth before coming in to every single programming channel to ask half-baked questions. 04:42:54 Then again, every time I do, a small discussion starts that involves multiple experienced users bringing more information to the table. 04:43:12 No, the problem is not with programming languages. 04:43:17 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:19 if you bake your questions more they may attract more users and/or more experienced users 04:43:28 winsoff: You're missing the point. 04:43:40 winsoff: it is your problem is that is ill-defined. 04:43:50 Good point. 04:44:00 "Set theory problem" can mean quite different things. 04:44:19 I guess my misunderstanding of the expanse of set theory is pretty fundamental to this problem. 04:44:33 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:41 It may mean "prove or find counter-argument for this claim" 04:45:09 have you taken much math? you'd get a lot of questions answered by a good course in what's called "discrete math" around here 04:45:11 or it may mean "calculate this expression," where expression is finite. 04:45:27 Bike: I have only been up to Calc II, sadly. 04:45:40 "Calc II" doesn't tell anything to me. 04:45:56 alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:45:59 calculus at that level is pretty unrelated, anyway 04:46:10 Sorry; we covered up to First-order differential equations (barely). It is prettys potty, though. 04:46:11 In our traditional calculus courses we have set theory elements in the first month. 04:46:31 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-3-172-126.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 04:46:54 With countability, Dedekind sections (or whatever construction your prof prefers), and all that stuff. 04:46:55 well, i mean, they might tell you what reals are, but they're not going to go over diagonalization in calculus, are they? 04:46:58 Our instructor would always go in to set theory fundamentals in order to introduce a subject, but I was lost beyond the definition and intersection. 04:47:01 huh. weird. 04:47:07 Bike: they do in our courses. 04:47:30 Then comes the question: Is set theory the rawest form we have of mathematics at the moment? 04:47:45 No. 04:47:48 Oh. 04:47:52 What is? 04:47:54 Remember when we were talking about half-baked questions earlier? I have bad news. 04:47:59 Pahaha. DAMNIT. 04:48:03 :p 04:48:21 as asau mentioned there are many possible "foundations" even if you limit yourself to set theories. 04:48:26 if that's what you mean. 04:48:28 Fundamentals of mathematics is rather strange discipline. 04:48:46 Well, to flesh it out in a way that probably makes no sense, I want to get some insight on why programming languages have to be "good" at some things and "bad" at others. I figured that understanding the raw mathematics of computing would point me in that direction. 04:49:08 i think you're barking up the wrong tree. 04:49:23 Is the tree too big, or is the tree invisible to everyone at the moment? 04:49:27 "Good" and "bad" are human comprehension. 04:49:39 No, the tree is just a few clicks west of set theory 04:49:51 maybe you are looking for the field called "programming language theory" 04:49:54 Thus you need to get into grammars, natural languages, and how they relate to programming languages. 04:50:04 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:50:18 -!- easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:42 Then you get onto such shaky grounds like SVO vs. SOV and others. 04:50:59 Subject Verb Object? 04:51:07 Almost-CFG syntax structure in natural languages. 04:51:08 there's more interesting stuff than syntax, thankfully 04:51:18 I never understood how "Man ball kick" makes sense to asians when they speak their language. 04:51:20 easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 04:51:36 "asians"... 04:51:45 And all other cognitive things. 04:51:47 like Russians? 04:51:49 Sorry; they are the only ones I know that use SOV. 04:51:57 "asians" don't have one language, man. 04:52:11 how do you know if you can't understand asian 04:52:11 you are thinking of japanese, probably. 04:52:15 He means a class of south eastern asians 04:52:20 not Turks 04:52:22 Is chinese not SOV? 04:52:27 Turks are Europeans. :p 04:52:29 chinese languages are SVO i believe 04:52:45 Oh, I guess I was mistaken in thinking that Japanese and Chinese had a common ancestor. 04:53:01 They do. 04:53:05 AFAIR. 04:53:09 Was it...OSV? 04:53:10 they don't. 04:53:16 That is, AFAIR they're nostratic. 04:53:23 well, yeah, if you buy nostratic... 04:53:41 er, altaic, it was. 04:53:52 hmmm half of Turky is European 04:54:23 And if they're Altaic, then Finnish, Magyar and Japanese have quite close common ancestor. :D 04:54:37 yeah, yeah. 04:54:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-130.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:54:55 -!- fishduck [~douglas_@gateway/tor-sasl/douglas/x-75997517] has quit [Quit: fishduck] 04:54:57 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:55:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:55:12 This comes down to semantics, it seems, but are languages and programming languages that similar? 04:55:17 Do the studies overlap? 04:55:23 Yes. 04:55:36 They don't overlap much beyond syntactic studies, and chomsky's out of vogue anyway 04:56:22 iirc perl's author was into linguistics 04:56:24 No, they do overlap beyond syntactic studies. 04:56:35 much, i said 04:56:50 You can study usage just as well in programming languages as in natural ones. 04:57:04 Ah, okay. So, when it comes to Assembly language, does that go a level "deeper" than the math involved, or are the registers and data within them just modeling some overall equations? 04:57:07 a linguist doesn't have to care about type theory and a programming language theorist doesn't give a damn about phonology changes 04:57:25 winsoff: i'm really thinking you'd be better off with a class than with IRC. 04:57:48 Paying for classes is the worst, though. 04:57:53 -!- antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:58:16 Type theory has direct relation to logic calculi, and those are applied quite well in semantic studies. 04:58:20 it's k just walk in and pretend you belong there 04:58:25 Although I am certain that I might sustain monetary damages if I continue bothering programmers on IRC every day, so you might have a very good point. 04:58:41 how about books? lisp in small pieces is pretty good and goes over denotational semantics 04:59:24 -!- dmiles [dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:59:39 Is SICP for someone with entry-level programming knowledge? 04:59:43 ASau: that seems like saying ecology and electrodynamics have a lot of overlap because they both use differential equations, but this is pretty off-topic 04:59:50 sure, that's what it was designed for after all 05:00:32 I tried reading it a while back 05:00:36 and it was too much for me 05:01:08 I think first chapter had recursion and higher order functions 05:01:37 Bike: this boils down to determining bounds of linguistics, you seem to limit it to natural/human languages. 05:01:56 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:12 All this time, I supposed that Mathematics was the most confined and raw forms of human knowledge, and that there were more subsections in highly-abstracted sciences like psychology. 05:02:13 well. yes. and cognition. 05:02:15 I think I was wrong. 05:03:01 well, think hard about whether "confined", "raw", "highly-abstracted", etc. are meaningful terms here 05:03:22 It seems that almost all knowledge can be modeled mathematically, though. 05:03:41 Or is this merely the fact that mathematics has concepts that can be abstracted to model situations, not that mathematics is "behind" it? 05:03:41 That's contentious statement. 05:03:42 as for number of subsections, take a gander at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_Subject_Classification for example 05:04:36 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-83-115.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:45 It assumes shaky statement that logic can be reduced to formal logic. 05:05:28 Aye, which I presume is unproven/unprovable? 05:05:49 And this depends on the meaning of "unprovable". 05:06:03 And "proven". 05:06:30 For instance Energy Conservation Law is considered proven. 05:06:45 So is Causality Law. 05:07:07 winsoff: it's a question of philosophy. which, incidentally, can make some pretty strong arguments about everything being mathematical, or whatever 05:07:26 Causality is proven? 05:07:40 I mean, we have not observed non-deterministic behavior? 05:07:47 I thought that was what quantum mechanics was all about? 05:07:52 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:56 Quantum mechanics is deterministic. 05:08:04 I thought it was probabilistic. 05:08:10 :D 05:08:11 The universe is deterministic? 05:08:18 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:08:25 And this is not strictly known. 05:09:10 I like saying that the universe is deterministic, since that implies that particles have set interactions. 05:09:11 There're some weird constructions that consider possibility of us living in sort of deterministic part of non-deterministic universe. 05:09:41 -!- opt9 [~user@112.187.229.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:44 My limited understanding of the field makes me assume that people talking about wave-functions are talking about the models, but they always treat the particles as if they ARE the models--as if they are the functions in some corporeal incarnation, which weirds me out. 05:10:00 ASau: That is an interesting notion. 05:10:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as nisstyre 05:10:45 You may not believe it, but "particle" is an abstraction even in classical mechanics. 05:10:53 One thing I like about math is the lack of analogies. No-one says "x wants to be alone." We say, "we change the function's appearance to determine the value of X." Physicists always talk about how systems "want to be equal," which irks me. 05:11:05 you uh, haven't read much mathematics. 05:11:35 People teach math like in analogies instead of axioms? 05:11:41 s/like/NULL 05:11:47 Yes. 05:11:48 -!- easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:54 Well, damn again. 05:12:04 At least that's what my friend professional mathematician told me. 05:12:05 winsoff: "people teach math NULL in analogies"? 05:12:28 loke: I knew someone would say that. 05:12:39 you forgot the final /, too. important stuff here. 05:12:51 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-83-115.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:12:55 glad to be of service :-) 05:12:58 If you "forget" it in real ed, it does the same. 05:13:00 Bike: Our resident IRCbot on my other frequented server is pretty lenient. 05:13:07 easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 05:13:21 ed, not sed? 05:13:25 ed 05:13:30 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:30 old skool 05:13:36 <|3b|> sed is just ed for streams 05:13:56 sed is just _stripped_ ed for streams. 05:14:12 winsoff: as an example of analogies, look up the definition of a cylinder set and try to work out why it's called that 05:14:21 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:18 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:19:50 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 05:20:53 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:21:09 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:22:41 jaimef: JFYI, all Slavic languages come from the region that is now in Belorussia and Poland, i.e. the centre of Europe. 05:22:46 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Client Quit] 05:31:36 Bike: the problem with your bounds of linguistics as I see it is that programming languages exist on the same substrate as natural ones. 05:31:50 And they follow essentially the same rules. 05:32:03 Like "a language is a dialect with an army and fleet." 05:32:46 Of course, there exist some pecularities like generally simpler syntax and more clearly defined semantics. 05:32:55 But that's all. 05:33:16 i don't want to pull the channel any more offtopic than it already is, you can /msg if you want 05:33:35 sure 05:33:49 Well... That's basically all I want to say on this. :) 05:34:01 ok then. 05:34:13 It's perfectly fine with me, if you consider bounds defined that way. 05:35:58 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:37:01 *jaimef* wonders what gui is most used with cl apps 05:37:06 toolkit 05:40:21 zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.209.159] has joined #lisp 05:40:30 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:47 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 05:46:48 -!- gendl_ is now known as gendl 05:48:24 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-187-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:53:25 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 05:54:25 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 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[~cory@PAT98.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:34:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34:36 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:22 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9FE28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:35 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:46 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.237.29] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:41:55 -!- brown`` is now known as brown 18:42:09 Are there any Slime maintainers here? 18:42:18 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:42:21 brown: why are you asking? 18:42:25 -!- brown is now known as Guest27982 18:42:58 Anybody know why sbcl's win32 builds have image-compression disabled? 18:43:15 jasom: you need zlib 18:43:32 and to enable it, naturally 18:43:33 stassats: zlib as a .dll or statically linked? 18:44:31 stassats: but there's no reason why I shouldn't make my own build that contains it, right? 18:44:41 -!- STilda [bca2a70f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:42 (unlike, say threading) 18:44:45 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b5390.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:15 totally unlike threading, you can't build a non-threaded sbcl for windows 18:45:37 Guest59644 [~root@223.234.254.185] has joined #lisp 18:45:37 oh, I thought threading was broken in sbcl on windows 18:47:28 -!- Guest27982 is now known as reb` 18:47:38 -!- reb` is now known as brown` 18:48:17 stassats: An ITA/Googler has some patches for slime-cl-indent.el. 18:48:33 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:39 He sent an email to the slime-devel mailing list, but has not yet gotten a reply. 18:49:04 -!- drmeist__ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:49:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:10 it was just one day ago 18:51:06 malbertife [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has joined #lisp 18:51:27 -!- Guest69225 [~iwilcox@35.198.90.146.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:27 Guest69225 [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #lisp 18:51:33 -!- Guest69225 is now known as iwilcox 18:51:45 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:52:11 and it's not for some important bugs, so _i_ won't be applying it, wait for somebody else 18:52:30 thelorax1231 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 18:54:16 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 18:54:58 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:42 Joreji_ [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:47 sdemarre [~serge@31.103-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:59:11 -!- Guest59644 [~root@223.234.254.185] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:43 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.238.21] has joined #lisp 19:07:00 ckoch` [~ckoch@ne102611l.eng.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 19:10:28 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.238.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10:45 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:11:41 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:11:50 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:51 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 19:13:04 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13:04 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 19:13:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:17:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:22:49 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 19:23:17 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzzz] 19:24:08 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 I wonder sometimes who these mysterious people are that work on gcl 19:27:32 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-169-104-83.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:27:54 and what their motivation is 19:29:44 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:58 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:23 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:01 dlowe: Haha 19:31:58 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:34:41 the glory of GNU, obviously 19:35:40 I sort of get, aesthetically anyway, some people's penchant for furthering increasingly obscure causes 19:36:19 gcl users must seriously be a splinter of a splinter of a splinter group 19:37:12 nipra [~nipra@122.177.74.171] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 -!- opt9 [~user@112.187.229.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:22 dlowe: Aren't we all. 19:38:38 No, CL users are just a splinter group 19:38:48 isn't it like the only implementation that reliably runs something old and important? ACL or Macsyma or something 19:39:15 CL users who work on compilers are a splinter of a splinter group 19:39:26 CL users who work on compilers written in C are a splinter of that 19:39:59 cmm: that I could believe 19:40:32 cmm: IIRC, Maxima dropped GCL support a few years ago. Dont know about Macsyma, though. 19:42:11 -!- dandersen [~dan@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Quit: Have fun] 19:43:54 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 19:44:16 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:46:10 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 19:46:36 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has left #lisp 19:47:16 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 19:47:38 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:47:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:48:46 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:49:44 drmeist__ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:49:54 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:50 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64763.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:43 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-125-176.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 19:55:55 -!- drmeist__ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:57:19 stassats: OK ... we'll wait patiently. Thanks. 20:01:05 -!- redline6561 is now known as veatch2 20:01:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:34 -!- veatch2 is now known as redline6561 20:01:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:02:09 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.74.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:56 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:05:17 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:33 well damn 20:05:34 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64763.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:40 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64763.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:45 k3VB6u4d [k3VB6u4d@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-vvgtkryikbwurrbk] has joined #lisp 20:06:08 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 I haven't saved the reworked ITER code drewc wrote (or I can't find any copies), and the original pastes no longer exist 20:07:22 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-007-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:20 bitonic` [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 danielszmulewicz [~daniel@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 20:08:57 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@164.138.80.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:09:36 oooh, https://web.archive.org/web/20100615014111/http://paste.lisp.org/display/111048 20:09:46 archive.org++ 20:09:50 kaygun__ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 20:10:33 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:20 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:11:29 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:11:34 https://web.archive.org/web/20100615014122/http://paste.lisp.org/display/111070 20:11:49 mc40 [~mcheema@164.138.80.236] has joined #lisp 20:12:02 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:12:05 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:10 francogrex [~user@109.128.97.231] has joined #lisp 20:13:15 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:13:55 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:14:34 oh, and attila has taken it up as a real project it seems: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.reiterate;a=summary 20:16:49 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:16:54 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:08 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:13 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 -!- thelorax1231 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:18:28 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 20:18:57 lduros` [~user@pool-72-78-80-110.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.97.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:49 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:56 -!- interlocutor [614da072@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.77.160.114] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:20:15 -!- ckoch` [~ckoch@ne102611l.eng.utoledo.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:14 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:38 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 20:22:15 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:22:21 mathrick: interesting 20:22:34 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:23:31 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:27:48 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:55 macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has joined #lisp 20:31:23 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 20:32:06 -!- LoicLisp [~loic@29.17.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34:12 -!- xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:34:18 xotedend_ [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:35 ltsampros [~user@adsl-35.46.190.114.tellas.gr] has joined #lisp 20:34:46 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has joined #lisp 20:35:55 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-222-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:00 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has quit [Changing host] 20:36:00 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 20:36:43 Today was calm. Nothing from <06:36:24> to <19:41:26>. A great day for lisp, newbies understood everything, and lispers coded a lot. 20:37:45 I was able to work mostly without issues, indeed. 20:38:07 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:20 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:51 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-007-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:58 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:44 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:44:45 -!- kaygun__ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:45:19 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 20:46:12 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:03 straycat [~straycat@cpc65057-bagu12-2-0-cust811.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:33 Unknown command: logview 20:48:52 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:49:12 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:12 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:55 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-192-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51:00 -!- macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has left #lisp 20:51:31 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-35-234-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:20 -!- xotedend_ [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:53:03 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:53 LiamH: indeed 20:56:02 I like the two-place thing, I've wondered about how to do that in the past. But a compile inside a macro? 20:56:35 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:49 whew. reiterate is not for the faint of heart 21:00:12 or the faint of lisp 21:00:49 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@14-5.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:50 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:02:46 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:49 What's the compile for? Isn't the result just discarded? 21:03:47 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 dlowe: attila! 21:07:11 his code is never for the faint of heart 21:07:20 he also doesn't believe in documenting things 21:07:58 yeah, I've worked with him before on local-time 21:08:19 I guess it could be to trigger style warnings or... something. 21:08:44 or errors, since warnings are muffled. definitely weird 21:09:11 Bike: lemme look up the logs, he explained that 21:09:47 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 21:09:50 -!- dented42 [~dented42@166.70.24.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:22 dented42 [~dented42@166.70.24.149] has joined #lisp 21:10:23 Bike: oh right, COMPILE expands macros for you, which is used to avoid codewalking 21:10:46 there's a function named walk-form, which kind of sounds like codewalking 21:11:09 doesn't MACROEXPAND expand macros for you? 21:11:20 cmm: only one level 21:11:29 mathrick: But the expanded code isn't collected, is it? 21:11:35 there's that 21:14:22 -!- keen___ [~blackened@p3b92097c.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:14:35 Bike: 2010-06-01 23:53:24 drewc: you want to solve it with a MACROLET. What definition would you give to it that resulted in code being moved to another place? 21:14:37 2010-06-01 23:54:47 (defvar *move*) (let (*move*) (compile nil (macrolet ((move-this-form (&body form) 21:14:51 that's how that happened, I'm not entirely sure tbh why compile 21:15:04 I need to re-read all that and understand it again 21:15:37 Oh. I see. The "clause compilers" are side-effectful. 21:15:42 That's incredibly nasty. 21:15:52 I think I'm impressed? 21:16:42 perhaps another version of iterate can be made that isn't backwards compatible with iterate's exact feature set, but has a sane backend that supports all the use cases 21:16:49 I think this sort of thing is what compiler-let was for. 21:17:12 Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:05 yeah 21:19:24 Bike: I'm not seeing it, how are they side-effectful? 21:19:43 malbertife__ [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has joined #lisp 21:19:51 look at the example clause compiler for :collect for instance 21:20:42 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:21:36 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9FE28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:08 and all that together, kids, is a great reason to keep using LOOP 21:23:23 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:23:35 because loop implementations are nice and clean? 21:24:46 who cares? LOOP's behavior is specified, after all. mostly. 21:24:58 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:23 That reiterate is very creative. It's not every day you see progv used appropriately. 21:26:15 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:06 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:31 Bike: I'm a bit dumb currently, sorry. You mean the implementation in that paste? 21:28:22 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:28:25 yes, the bit starting "(define-clause-compiler :collect" 21:28:50 trying to understand what clause compilers actually do, and how they relate to COMPILE still 21:29:24 because that came later, and I still don't see the need for COMPILE which was pretty much the first thing mentioned when we were talking about codewalking and the necessity thereof 21:30:01 before returning the actual result of the macroexpansion, the iter macro compiles some special code. that code is just the same forms as the iter macro is taking, but wrapped in a macrolet that establishes a macro for each clause that is the "clause compiler" (as opposed to the "clause expander" which is used in the actual macroexpanded iteration) 21:30:11 keen___ [~blackened@p3b931224.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:30:25 macin [~root@106.193.59.108] has joined #lisp 21:30:32 so, COMPILE compiles that lambda, which means going through and expanding all the macros in the right places, so that (let ((collect ...)) ...) isn't expanded but (let () (collect ...)) is 21:30:59 those macroexpanders, the "clause compilers", alter the dynamic bindings established in the progv 21:31:12 the result of the compile is then discarded but the altered dynamic bindings are kept 21:31:59 whoa, PROGV 21:32:34 "Notes: Among other things, progv is useful when writing interpreters for languages embedded in Lisp; it provides a handle on the mechanism for binding dynamic variables." 21:33:13 mathrick: WOAH 21:33:24 so, for example, with a (collect ...) clause, the clause compiler adds a variable to the initial bindings, to hold the collected list 21:33:28 mathrick: note that unlike (let (...) (declare (special ...))) progv computes the variable it is binding dynamically 21:33:30 and then the clause expander can just use that variable 21:33:38 Vivitron: yes, I get that 21:33:39 that sounds prone to unintended compile-time side-effects in the client code, but otherwise very impressive 21:34:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:34:25 yeah, i'd prefer a real 'make your own special forms' mechanism, but that's not CL 21:35:57 yeah, that is a really impressive mechanism 21:36:27 literally using COMPILE as a code walker 21:37:19 I'm reminded of some C projects that bind functions to strings using text macros and an included file interpreted differently depending on the macro definition 21:37:30 -!- macin [~root@106.193.59.108] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40:03 k0001 [~k0001@host130.186-125-114.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 dlowe: uhhh? 21:40:15 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:42:41 mathrick: to which? 21:42:51 C projects and macros 21:44:13 #define X(name) int name(char *)\n#include \nchar *funcnames[] = {\n#define X(name) ##name,\n#include \n} 21:44:38 where defs.h has X(foo) X(bar) X(baz) in it 21:44:52 lemme parse that 21:44:59 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:45:39 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:45:44 oh 21:46:12 it's pretty common, even the Android source has some 21:46:13 yes, that's a clever abuse 21:46:34 one could make a convincing argument that all C macros are clever abuse 21:46:45 they are 21:47:01 but there's still gradation in the levels of clever (and abuse, for that matter) 21:47:50 the alternative in C is to make a code generator 21:48:10 let us be grateful we live in more enlightened times 21:49:02 heh 21:49:18 yessir we do *goes back to hacking on JS code* 21:49:22 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:07 I hear javascript is the new bytecode 21:50:24 next stop: CL targeting asm.js 21:51:55 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:01 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:05 macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has joined #lisp 21:54:19 l_ [~caprice1@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 21:55:04 -!- l_ [~caprice1@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 21:55:55 dlowe: you can do that as easily if not even more easily in lisp, by just omiting the in-package form in the file. 21:56:20 (defmacro x (arg) (first-expansion arg)) (load "defs.lisp") (defmacro x (arg) (second-expansion arg)) (load "defs.lisp") 21:56:51 I use that to define html401.lisp, and load it with different macros, depending on whether I want a parser or a generator. 21:57:49 pjb: sure. I was just reminded of the strategy by the reiterate clause walking 21:58:14 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 21:59:27 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:05 dlowe: clisp can't do that, since it assumes a real stack 22:00:43 dlowe: I tried and actually got the minimal-bootstrap lisp semi-working, but then it crapped out trying to define all the special forms 22:00:51 hah. well, good for you for trying 22:02:51 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:03:47 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:51 but that was using emscripten; sbcl or ccl could probably be ported to asm.js fairly reasonably 22:04:06 modulo the fact that you would have to completely rewrite the OS interface 22:05:24 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 22:05:53 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:05:53 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 22:06:40 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:07:52 Some GC algorithms may be hard, since I think asm.js forces you to have a single contiguous heap... 22:08:51 asm.js performs its own GC. You don't need to implement it. 22:09:05 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 22:09:16 pjb: pretty sure that's not true 22:10:09 I don't know. 22:10:18 pjb: in fact one of the things mentioned as why an AOT asm.js compiler can get more predictible performance is "Lack of Garbage Collection" 22:10:28 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:51 That sounds strange, since asm.js is normal Javascript, and normal Javascript has a garbage collector. 22:11:06 pjb: it's because you create a giant array that acts as a C heap 22:11:18 you always have a reference to it, so it never gets GCed 22:11:27 -!- sdemarre [~serge@31.103-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:28 ok. 22:11:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:39 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:49 So indeed, implementing CL you may need to implement a GC inside this array. 22:12:15 right, and doesn't sbcl use mmap tricks to do two-space GC? 22:12:27 which wouldn't work with a single contiguous heap 22:12:31 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.174.71] has joined #lisp 22:13:03 So it would seem that's not the right solution. Let's just take a couple of open source browser, and embed ECL in them. 22:13:36 does anyone know if stassats finished compiling commonqt binaries for windows? 22:13:48 Yes, stassats knows. 22:14:21 okay 22:14:21 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:14:22 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-liidqdykbcwobllz] has joined #lisp 22:14:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64763.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:14:42 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:01 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 22:15:39 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.174.71] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:23 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:16:37 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:25 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 22:18:16 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 22:18:26 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:27 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:32 -!- macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has left #lisp 22:19:10 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 22:19:50 malbertife___ [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has joined #lisp 22:21:05 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:21:53 platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:53 -!- platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:21:53 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 22:23:35 -!- malbertife__ [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:00 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-35-234-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:17 -!- malbertife___ [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:25:25 macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has joined #lisp 22:25:25 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25:26 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-liidqdykbcwobllz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:04 -!- jk121960 [~jk121960@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:33:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:34:47 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@206-169-73-202.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:37:49 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.174.71] has joined #lisp 22:39:07 how do I install commonqt on windows? I have quicklisp but ql:quickload gives me an error. I'd be grateful for any link to a page that describes the install process as I haven't been able to find any 22:39:41 I recall stassats saying he might compile some binaries for windows, so if anyone knows anything about that please let me know :) 22:39:54 -!- strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:28 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:43:17 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:22 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@201.164.188.20] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:45:49 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:51 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host111-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:42 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@2620:101:f000:9c00:224:7eff:feda:1209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:16 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@homura.memphis.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:51 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:24 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-222-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:50:51 Longlius [~Longlius@homura.memphis.edu] has joined #lisp 22:51:10 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-zvizjntlsjikqscp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:17 currently you need to compile qt 4, then compile smoke, then compile smokeqt and finally compile common-qt. 22:54:21 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:38 -!- macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has left #lisp 22:57:52 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:35 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:45 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:02 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 22:59:17 -!- hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:43 hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:00:23 Posterdati [~kvirc@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:50 macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has joined #lisp 23:01:33 -!- macin [~macin@106.193.59.108] has left #lisp 23:02:35 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:03:44 -!- samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:44 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04:54 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.83.11] has joined #lisp 23:07:27 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzzZZ] 23:09:37 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@14-5.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 23:09:42 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:10:01 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:12:23 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:12:41 Posterdati [~kvirc@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:13:28 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:12 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:05 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 23:16:30 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:18:01 samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:31 -!- straycat [~straycat@cpc65057-bagu12-2-0-cust811.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:54 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:22:03 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 23:22:14 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:24:12 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:36 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:05 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 23:34:07 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:34:28 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:41 baumy [~baumy@unaffiliated/jbaumy93] has joined #lisp 23:37:46 how do I pass a filename to a lisp function? 23:38:53 I have (defun graph-coloring-to-sat (fname out-name k), then (setf in-path (make-pathname :name fname)) 23:39:07 I'm not sure how to correctly call (graph-coloring-to-sat) with the name of my input file 23:39:38 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:42:01 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:42:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:17 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:42 never mind got it 23:42:43 -!- baumy [~baumy@unaffiliated/jbaumy93] has left #lisp 23:43:57 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-177-76.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:44:12 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-130-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:44:38 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-iegnldopbrdbvfju] has joined #lisp 23:46:27 iwilcox_ [~iwilcox@87.115.127.239] has joined #lisp 23:46:29 -!- iwilcox_ [~iwilcox@87.115.127.239] has quit [Changing host] 23:46:29 iwilcox_ [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #lisp 23:46:42 -!- iwilcox is now known as Guest72757 23:46:42 -!- Guest72757 [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has quit [Killed (hobana.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 23:46:42 -!- iwilcox_ is now known as iwilcox 23:49:18 good day 23:49:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.83.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:50:20 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.83.11] has joined #lisp 23:51:18 seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b003:a1ab:d4fc:3880:9f70:dd83] has joined #lisp 23:54:02 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-clzxvvfslfolntnm] has joined #lisp 23:54:07 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 -!- Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.] 23:59:54 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]