00:00:14 -!- straycat [~straycat@cpc5-with6-2-0-cust871.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:00:54 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:38 btw, https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala, it has a lengthy user manual in doc/ 00:02:40 J is similarly terse 00:03:09 yeah, but Ursala looks less readable, if that's possible 00:03:16 samskulls: Ursala is interpreted 00:03:21 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:37 Ah, figures. 00:03:38 it has an "abstract VM" it compiles for 00:04:26 https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala/blob/master/src/mul.fun  https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala/blob/master/src/mul.avm 00:04:35 so the answer is "yes" 00:05:18 mathrick, once, but only after you've done it enough that you're confident it's right. 00:09:36 -!- seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b014:4afd:d4d6:fc1:659:6cb2] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:10:05 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 00:10:22 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 00:13:26 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.197.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:15:33 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@201.164.188.20] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 00:15:45 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:19 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 00:16:39 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:21:05 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:29 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.47.44.43] has joined #lisp 00:21:31 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@75-120.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:49 -!- __zxq9__ [~ceverett@206-169-73-202.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:23:16 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0AF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:25:20 -!- Zagaba [~user@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:25:56 Zagaba [~user@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:26:20 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:29 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:57 golf competition: split a string into space-delimited words, reverse the words, join the string, print it 00:27:15 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:28:12 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 00:28:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:29:18 (apply 'concatenate 'string (reverse (split-sequence #\space string))) 00:29:30 #\ is shorter I guess 00:29:50 nice 00:30:27 note you didn't say join with spaces... 00:30:35 (format t "~{~a~^ ~}" (reverse (split-sequence:split-sequence #\Space "foo bar baz"))) 00:30:47 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:30:54 (assuming joining with spaces) 00:30:54 oh yes I meant join with spaces 00:31:43 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:51 (with-output-to-string (s) (mapc (lambda (x) (write-sequence x s) (write-char #\ s)) (reverse (split-sequence #\ string))) 00:31:58 (just to be different from antoszka 00:31:59 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:32:15 hehe 00:32:24 oh, you said print it, not return it... mine gets shorter then 00:32:26 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:32:56 (mapc(lambda(x)(write-sequence x)(write-char #\ s))(reverse(split-sequence #\ string))) 00:33:30 Add the sharpl reader on top of that and you're even shorter :) 00:33:38 (or whatever the name was) 00:33:39 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:33:44 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.199.159] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 yeah, I can use write-sequence twice since " " and #\ are the same length 00:34:12 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:34:20 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:28 (mapc(lambda(x)(princ x)(princ " "))(reverse(split-sequence #\ s)))) 00:37:14 That leaves you with a trailing space. 00:37:20 Not nice. :) 00:37:22 sue me 00:37:29 *antoszka* sues jasom 00:37:42 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:38:38 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:53 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:40:06 (format t"~{~A~^ ~}"(reverse(split-sequence #\ s)))) 00:40:20 minified antoszka's 00:41:02 Yeah, format gives a really consise solution here. Pity it doesn't allow descructuring in the opposite direction. 00:41:19 And you have to split-sequence. 00:42:17 Though that'd require a more complex parse-string. 00:43:32 having used scanf, I don't think destructuring input is a good idea 00:43:42 (ppcre:split #\ s) 00:43:44 ("foo" "bar" "baz") 00:43:48 that's shorter 00:43:55 if you have cl-ppcre at hand 00:43:59 and split-sequence is essentially standard library for me 00:44:18 I tend to stick to cl-ppcre, but yeah, both are handy. 00:44:33 (format t"~{~A~^ ~}"(reverse(ppcre:split " "s)))) 00:44:38 (format t"~{~A~^ ~}"(reverse(ppcre:split" "s)))) 00:44:49 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:45:13 jasom: how about integrating REVERSE into the format string? :) 00:45:23 (there must be a way to do that) 00:45:35 -!- alexshendi [~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:59 *antoszka* off with dog 00:47:53 you can, but it would be longer 00:48:08 could make a 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fishduck rvchangue chenjf stardiviner sohail joast zophy xotedend `fogus ggole lduros hiyosi didi` syrinx attila_lendvai Posterdati 17:28:20 -!- names: echo-area thasc ogamita segv- LoicLisp jk121960 straycat cdidd gravicappa MrWoohoo Lefeni lemoinem harish_ matko francis_wolke ck`` kangkung cnl shridhar foreignFunction xan_ slyrus mrSpec schaueho leo2007 stepnem munge mishoo cmm prxq rk[UTAH] [SLB] kpreid seangrove wilfredh alezost dented42 MoALTz Kromitvs hiro3 d4gg4d_ karswell patrickwonders nisstyre samskulls deadghost jaimef milosn pjb strobegen ASau ivan\ Zagaba Oddity ozialien EvW sword Yanez 17:28:20 -!- names: doomlord_ killmaster willyfrog Praise mcsontos meingbg Kabaka ircbrowse ThePhoeron sytse loke__ otwieracz jackdaniel xenophon` aerique capisce Elvaron oconnore ski chr sid_cypher sshirokov tessier jack_rabbit |3b| PuercoPop jayne kanru froggey w|t deego emma BrianRice keen__ aeth djinni` Mandus fikusz Codynyx abeaumont devon paddymahoney JPeterson araujo jewel kaygun yrk cmatei Nshag ^self entitativity Tarential cibs hugod bhyde sfa dfox easye jsucsy1 17:28:20 -!- names: nydel SHODAN _5kg nightshade427 Tristam bjorkintosh effy mathrick ggherdov tvaalen ve ``Erik j_king ianmcorvidae TristamWrk aftershave dlowe wchun impulse bben ferada balle robot-beethoven Tordek rtoym easiere hyperboreean prip joneshf-work Adeon cyphase kirin` ahungry billstclair clog naryl ft adeht kmder dRbiG stokachu BlastHardcheese smull Ash zenoli fe[nl]ix quasisane Blkt Wukix`` hypno_ bobbysmith0071 wolgo srcerer guaqua Neptu tomaw enn expez clop 17:28:20 -!- names: ozzloy stuckie tali713 sjl mikaelj_ specbot brown`` qiemem cmbntr gluegadget Khisanth z0d H4ns Zhivago jsnell aajmakin dim The_third_man galdor_ gensym aoh Jubb foom abend ecraven AntiSpamMeta kbtr surrounder iwilcox Krystof _d3f bege cpt_nemo eMBee rotty seantallen vnz __main__ eli flip214 nightfly benny delYsid` tinyghost phadthai danlentz nicdev yano pchrist ered peccu antoszka _schulte1 ckoch786 nullman asedeno newcup ivan Anarch MikeSeth ineiros_ 17:28:20 -!- names: clop2 setheus_ luis johs pok nuba dan64 justinmcp xristos j0ni acieroid GuilOooo redline6561 cods loke Fade koisoke DrForr sigjuice_ scharan felipe obre yeltzooo freiksenet yroeht finnrobi mtd zbigniew housel schoppenhauer theBlackDragon Natch hpd felideon tensorpudding yonkeltron AeroNotix daimrod Subfusc tkd mal___ minion fmu drdo eagleflo mau_ Ralt copec Kruppe gemelen jasom zz_karupanerura gabot igorw plathrop vhost- sauerkrause gko spacefrogg Tribal 17:28:20 -!- names: gf3 K1rk dsp_ ashish__ Yamazaki-kun sbryant Watcher7 mshroyer Amadiro oGMo cross epsylon` arbscht nbouscal eak Cheery brucem stopbit Roin subtlepath ramus KingNato_ Sourceless nitro_idiot_ photex madnificent wyan vsync samebchase 17:29:51 -!- didi` is now known as didi 17:32:01 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-hoyvshldyqdosnxi] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:32:53 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-isvrtvymskgqftij] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 -!- nialo- 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ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:18:36 alexshendi [~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:00 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 18:19:34 So I have a bunch of functions I'd like to put in a list, since I'll need to call them. I don't want to just make them lambdas though, as that's a pain for debugging. Do you recommend creating the list and the functions separately, or making a macro that will define the function and add to a list. 18:21:00 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.2.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:52 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:57 stilda [bca2a70f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.15] has joined #lisp 18:23:21 -!- LoicLisp [~loic@29.17.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:41 <|3b|> if you just want names, maybe something like alexandria:named-lambda ? 18:25:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:25:32 pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:18 hugod [~user@70.24.180.96] has joined #lisp 18:28:52 -!- straycat [~straycat@82-68-191-81.dsl.posilan.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:29:52 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:31:03 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:31:25 ln` [~G-Bg5@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 18:32:12 stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.118.153] has joined #lisp 18:32:35 malbertife [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has joined #lisp 18:32:46 Hi people. Is it true that it is not possible to redefine (without restarting) a body of infinite loop when the app is inside that loop? 18:32:55 -!- ln` [~G-Bg5@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 18:33:47 Ugh... I'm trying to use dx-oauth, and there's something wonky going on with the (backtick) quoting of it, I think... it seems like it's trying to interpret local variables as global, but I don't fully understand what it's doing. Code is here, under oauth1-drakma-request - does anyone have any suggestions? https://github.com/data-x-ware/dx-oauth/blob/master/oauth.lisp 18:34:05 stilda: practically probably not, but if you design it right you could 18:35:08 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-201.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:20 jasom: the advantage of the macro is that you won't have pointers to stale definitions left around in the list. I have done enough procedural attachment stuff to have been bitten by that on multiple occasions..... 18:36:30 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:36:33 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:54 looks like I have to make a separate function for the body of that loop 18:36:59 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:37:57 <|3b|> Oladon_work: what's wrong with it? 18:38:14 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:21 stilda: that'd be the easiest way 18:38:37 really you'd need to do that in some fashion anyway 18:38:46 |3b|: I'm not sure. When I paste in the defun for the oauth1-drakma-request function, it starts complaining that the key arguments have no value 18:39:16 |3b|: which makes me believe something's quoted incorrectly 18:39:48 lol. node.js is basically out of order today because registry.npmjs.org is acting up. 18:40:07 i'm glad that quicklisp is hosted on serious infrastructure. 18:40:30 logand [~user@g229170008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:43 <|3b|> Oladon_work: "paste in the defun"? 18:40:45 Oladon_work: FYI loop variables introduce a single binding for the entire loop; I've been bitten by that 18:41:03 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 18:41:15 so e.g. (loop for i from 10 to 10 collect (lambda () i)) will return a list of lambdas that will all return 10 18:41:27 platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 -!- platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:28 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 18:41:38 |3b|: I'm pasting the function definitions into the REPL to see if they'll do what I need 18:41:53 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:42:20 <|3b|> are you sure you are in a package with all those functions it uses defined? 18:42:29 Oladon_work: looks like I read stilda's and yours together, sorry 18:42:49 |3b|: Yeah, it's only got the one file. 18:43:02 And it's not the functions, it's the arguments 18:43:03 <|3b|> the file isn't your REPL though 18:43:18 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:43:24 I've pasted in the rest of the functions. For example, it complains that callback-uri has no value 18:43:41 <|3b|> what is the exact error? 18:43:49 <|3b|> and when does it complain? 18:44:09 <|3b|> and are you sure DEFUN is CL:DEFUN in that package? 18:44:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:45:37 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@95.236.12.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:45:43 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:47:23 |3b|: *** - SYSTEM::READ-EVAL-PRINT: variable ,@(if access-token 18:47:23 CALLBACK-URI has no value 18:47:45 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:24 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-135-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 Oh. I might be silly. 18:49:02 -!- alexshendi [~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:47 oGMo, good, thank you 18:53:09 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-isvrtvymskgqftij] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:32 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:03 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 19:00:39 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:39 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host111-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:02:01 Posterdati [~kvirc@host111-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 19:02:16 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:02:18 alexshendi [~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:28 minion: memo for Poenikatu: I annotated your code at http://paste.lisp.org/display/139910, including a fully idiomatic version 19:03:28 Remembered. I'll tell Poenikatu when he/she/it next speaks. 19:04:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:04:10 bitonic` [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:06:45 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 -!- lc0dd0cl [~thisismyu@21.12.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 19:07:33 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 19:07:51 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:08 lc0dd0cl [~thisismyu@21.12.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:08:23 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-36-44.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:09:16 -!- lc0dd0cl [~thisismyu@21.12.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:03 lc0dd0cl [~thisismyu@21.12.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:14:14 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:14:56 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:45 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:37 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:51 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:08 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-eodizzfxtmcmqvio] has joined #lisp 19:20:41 logand` [~user@g229168055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:19 -!- logand [~user@g229170008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:23 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:10 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0AF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:29:01 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 19:32:57 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 19:38:02 xotedend_ [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:00 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:33 unwind-indent [~other@188.162.64.125] has joined #lisp 19:39:50 -!- xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:25 fiveop [~fiveop@p54AF47FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:40 hi, is it okay that in emacs unwind-protect's protected form is a bit more indented than cleanup form? 19:41:35 cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:48 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:42:33 -!- ggole [~ggole@58-7-122-172.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:45:54 unwind-indent: usually forms that are (thing FORM &rest MORE-FORMS) have FORM indented more. handler-case, multiple-value-bind, etc 19:46:05 it helps distinguish 19:46:22 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 19:46:25 unwind-indent: cleanup formS. 19:48:21 ok, thanks for explanation. looks ugly and it's not indented as in hyperspec. http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/speope_unwind-protect.html 19:48:33 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 19:48:46 i can distinguish with just empty line. 19:49:09 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:09 Don't fight emacs indenting: it helps you find syntax errors. 19:49:22 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 19:49:28 blank lines aren't particularly idiomatic 19:50:10 pjb: syntax? you mean ill balanced parens? :D 19:50:16 Yes :-) 19:50:44 if you're using paredit ill-balanced parens should be rather difficult to achieve 19:50:54 oGMo: yeah 19:52:15 But even, you may forget that unwind-protect takes only one protected form and start writing two forms; as soon as you see the second indented differently, you remember to wrap them in a progn. 19:53:14 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@201.164.188.20] has joined #lisp 19:53:33 exactly 19:53:59 logand [~user@g229168055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:10 by the way why can't you change bar by (let ((foo (bar-foo bar))) (setf foo 1))? 19:54:31 -!- logand [~user@g229168055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 19:54:58 ikki [~ikki@177.224.112.55] has joined #lisp 19:55:16 int foo bar_foo(bar); foo=1; /* why can't you change bar this way? */ ??? 19:55:24 -!- logand` [~user@g229168055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 19:55:29 s/foo bar/foo=bar/ 19:55:42 pjb: what? 19:55:51 p_l|backup [~pl@146.185.153.36] has joined #lisp 19:55:53 You're question is silly. 19:56:01 What other language do you know apart from lisp? 19:56:40 pjb: i don't understand, i got pointer to foo from bar struct and then set value of to 1. 19:56:45 what is silly about it? 19:57:00 There is no pointer in lisp. Only values, lisp objects. 19:57:05 pjb: nope 19:57:07 unwind-indent: you got a reference not a pointer, you bound the referenced value to a new memory location, you modified the new memory location 19:57:11 there are places. 19:57:21 places are not first class objects. 19:57:27 Only lisp objects are. 19:57:53 weird. why? 19:58:06 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:58:12 Because, it's not necessary. 19:58:32 well, mutation is not necessary weither. :P 19:59:48 unwind-indent: you can reference a place by (lambda (new-val) (setf (bar-foo bar) new-val) anything further and it would be difficult to tell when you were referencing a place and when you were referencing the value of that place. Fundamentally its not often required to actually reference a place, and its often required to reference values, so thats what was chosen 20:00:02 missed a paren 20:00:38 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 -!- xotedend_ is now known as xotedend 20:00:42 This is not technically a place reference: the reference enclosed in the closure, is to the variable bar, not to the place (bar-foo bar). 20:00:44 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:54 But this is indeed the way to implement references or pointers, using such closures. 20:01:35 pjb: thanks for the correction 20:02:02 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02:34 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 20:02:38 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:41 bobbysmith0071: i'm just having situation http://vpaste.net/hPGz9 i'm just realy like second variant 20:02:49 it's more DRY 20:03:11 unwind-indent: what you could do is to use symbol macros. 20:03:28 (symbol-macrolet ((foo (bar-foo bar))) (setf foo 1)) 20:03:54 Also: (with-accessors ((foo bar-foo)) bar (setf foo 1)) 20:04:13 pjb: wow, never heard of symbol-macrolet 20:05:18 *Oladon_work* goes off on a tangent about Python encouraging bad coding habits 20:05:28 There are also global symbol macros, with define-symbol-macro. 20:05:34 pjb: so basically symbol-macrolet just s/foo/(bar-foo bar)/g in all child forms? 20:05:38 Yes. 20:05:45 cool 20:05:50 Beware of side effects in the form! 20:06:13 yeah, thats dangerous game 20:06:32 Oladon_work: already, Python making the distinction between expressions and statements moves it down the list (not counting significant spaces). 20:06:51 Yeah. And significant whitespace is... *shudders* 20:07:02 pjb: but what with-accessors does? it's seems more complicated 20:07:43 unwind-indent: the same. (macroexpand '(with-accessors ((foo bar-foo)) bar (setf foo 1))) 20:07:50 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:34 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:26 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:46 pjb: not sure why do we need it then, symbol-macrolet it's a special form for some reason and with-accessors is not, why? 20:10:15 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 20:10:45 It's a question of abstraction. 20:10:53 symbol-macros are a lower level abstraction. 20:12:03 When you have accessors to an object, it's better to use with-accessors, since it factorize out the let to bind a single variable. Remember the side effect problem. That means that it's better if the symbol macros are defined using variables, that don't have side effects when accessed, rather than expressions. 20:12:32 (with-accessors ((foo bar-foo) (quux bar-quux)) (aref *objs* (incf i)) (+ foo quux)) 20:12:58 pjb: got it, thanks 20:13:07 vs. * (symbol-macrolet ((foo (bar-foo (aref *objs* (incf i)))) (quux (bar-quux (aref *objs* (incf i))))) (+ foo quux)) ; wrong 20:13:33 yeah, thats a good example 20:13:36 vs. (let ((a-bar (aref *objs* (incf i)))) (symbol-macrolet ((foo (bar-foo a-bar)) (quux (bar-quux a-bar))) (+ foo quux))) ; good, 20:14:09 but when you've typed a couple of times those let+symbol-macrolet, you long for a macro such as with-accessors. 20:15:10 That's how CL came to be: there was LISP with a few special operators and a few primitive functions, and all the rest are utility functions and abstration macros developed over time (40 years!), when lispers realized that they were writing the same utility all the time. 20:15:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:18:11 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has joined #lisp 20:21:23 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-eodizzfxtmcmqvio] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:23:45 -!- stilda [bca2a70f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:25:08 Hermit [~hermit@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 20:26:24 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:25 -!- thasc [~thasc@cpc3-croy20-2-0-cust376.croy.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d3c5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:24 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d3c5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 20:27:30 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0AF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:31 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-201.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:04 chturne [~chturne@host86-169-71-147.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:55 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-007-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:35 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:34:37 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:51 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 20:39:00 gendl_ [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:59 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:46:40 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:47:14 -!- unwind-indent [~other@188.162.64.125] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:22 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 20:48:02 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 20:49:01 -!- gendl_ [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 20:50:30 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:50:51 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:33 straycat [~straycat@cpc5-with6-2-0-cust871.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:44 p_nathan [~Adium@173-160-167-74-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:06 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-vkqonwmhooznfano] has joined #lisp 20:56:50 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:41 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-007-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:58:03 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:41 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-187-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:49 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:59:01 -!- straycat [~straycat@cpc5-with6-2-0-cust871.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:28 jmignault [~jmignault@sassafras.nybg.org] has joined #lisp 20:59:48 straycat [~straycat@cpc5-with6-2-0-cust871.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:54 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.80.228] has joined #lisp 21:01:29 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:02:42 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 21:03:30 shiiiiiiiiiiiitteeeeeee! 21:03:38 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ooyqvcgryjiwbdgr] has joined #lisp 21:03:39 makelisp in maxima is bloody! 21:03:57 especially for real ranges.... 21:04:04 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:04:31 and something which works locally does not work remotely... 21:06:20 I'm using handler-bind to log about some errors, but at the thread top-level I want to handle the error to avoid interactive debugger, is the proper way to handle that handler-case? 21:07:30 or should I install another handler with handler-bind at the thread top-level entry point and deal explicitly with control flow from there, but then how? 21:08:07 -!- ZabaQ [~ZabaQ@86.63.2.14] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian - www.trillian.im ~] 21:08:08 <|3b|> handler-case sounds reasonable 21:08:39 <|3b|> with handler-bind you would just use any non-local exit that doesn't invke the debugger 21:09:53 and I whish I knew which 21:10:24 so yeah just a thread-local top-level handler-case then 21:11:06 *Oladon_work* wharrgarbls 21:15:51 If you want to invoke-debugger, use handler-bind 21:16:20 (handler-bind ((error (function invoke-debugger))) (do-something-bad)) 21:16:22 *|3b|* read it as wanting to prevent debugger 21:17:14 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 21:17:17 Inside the thread, if you have threads. 21:17:55 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@173-160-167-74-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-130.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:39 -!- jmignault [~jmignault@sassafras.nybg.org] has left #lisp 21:23:28 pjb: I want specifically not to invoke the debugger 21:23:54 what about backtraces? 21:24:17 I'd use uiop:with-fatal-condition-handler 21:24:25 I have a handler-bind caring about printing the error 21:24:26 or just uiop:restore-image 21:24:55 is it for wrapping your lisp program into a shell-callable executable? 21:25:01 use uiop/image primitives 21:25:08 really, that's what they're there for. 21:25:16 it's in a thread tasked with parallel index creation, and when that fails there's just the PostgreSQL error message to add to the logs and counting an error to do, that's about it 21:25:25 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 21:25:27 maybe even use asdf:program-op or at least uiop:dump-image 21:25:37 Fare: where can I read does about them? 21:25:39 thread or process? 21:25:43 docs, even 21:25:49 docstrings or helambdap 21:25:54 thread in the lisp side, thanks to lparallel 21:26:23 anyway, thanks for your help, but not helping much here, as you're answering general concerns that are not applicable to my current problem at hand I think 21:26:35 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:58 have a look at https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader to see what is already there about what you're talking about, the Makefile about how to produce the .exe and the src/main.lisp file for general backtraces 21:29:10 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:29:13 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:30:08 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ooyqvcgryjiwbdgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:22 ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has joined #lisp 21:38:39 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-38-0.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:39:51 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:40:00 francogrex [~user@109.128.97.231] has joined #lisp 21:43:13 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@164.138.80.236] has quit [Quit: mc40] 21:43:20 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:29 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:40 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:46:05 dim: HANDLER-BIND is used by HANDLER-CASE internally. You *must* take a non-local exit for a condition to be handled. Ie. just returning from the handler function normally will count as not having handled it. HANDLER-CASE does it for you because it unwinds the stack (ie. makes a non-local exit to the point where it was declared) before any handlers run 21:46:27 HANDLER-BIND + local return is the proper way of just logging things without disturbing them 21:47:03 yeah I got that much 21:47:03 but if you want to handle it, then HANDLER-CASE or INVOKE-RESTART are what you most likely want 21:47:06 INVOKE-RESTART is also non-local 21:47:16 I just don't know which non-local exit form to use manually in case I would want to use some 21:47:19 any 21:47:33 yeah, well, I need to read about them is what I'm saying maybe ;-) 21:47:42 dim: it just must return to a point outside of the handler's own body 21:48:02 yeah, so that point needs to have been prepared (declared) somewhere right? 21:48:18 THROW, RETURN-FROM other than the handler's, TAG/GO, INVOKE-RESTART are all game 21:48:25 dim: yes 21:48:30 we're talking go/tag throw/catch return-from and all the jazz 21:48:34 you can't just point at a place randomly and jump there 21:48:40 even invoke-restart needs to be prepared in the code 21:48:45 yes 21:48:49 for my use case hander-care is just what I want to do 21:48:58 but without a clear understanding of the options, I was not sure 21:49:11 RESTART-BIND or RESTART-CASE are for establishing restarts 21:49:22 yeah, didn't use that yet 21:49:24 gajon [~gajon@201.141.129.56] has joined #lisp 21:49:52 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 21:49:53 dim: if you want to understand it better, try to write CERROR on your own, using only RESTART-BIND 21:50:08 in case though there's nothing to do, the CREATE INDEX failed most certainly because the data is crap, just log it (already done in the generic handler-bind), count an error, and be done already (don't let the thread try invoking the debugger) 21:50:17 when you get it working, you should have a solid understanding of exits as pertaining to condition handling 21:50:31 well I prefer implementing something I actually need ;-) 21:50:38 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:47 the day will come, but only once I realise the potential of the tools here 21:50:52 it is something you need. You need to understand conditions and restarts to use them properly 21:51:10 especially restarts without unwinding, because that's not something other languages have 21:51:26 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 21:51:36 dim: it's not a long exercise, but it's illuminating 21:51:46 I guess it is 21:51:59 but the unhandled error path I had to care about is handled now 21:52:37 actually I have some convoluted throw/catch code here that could benefit from restarts 21:52:44 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d3c5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:52:45 probably 21:53:00 but that's for another evening, I just don't have the brainpower tonight 21:53:26 but be aware that restarts are necessarily more expensive than less generic mechanisms, so depending on your usage and how often that path is taken, it might or might not be appropriate for restarts 21:53:40 oh I need something fast and light 21:54:02 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-71-147.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:06 you can read about it in https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/master/src/pgsql/pgsql.lisp, if you fancy that kind of reading ;-) 21:54:06 normanrichards [~textual@mobile-166-147-065-149.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:07 the extra cost is negligible for error handling and almost all code you will ever write, but it can be a significant hit if you *usually* end up throwing in an inner loop 21:54:56 dim: your project URL ends up with 403: http://pgloader.projects.pgfoundry.org/ You don't have permission to access / on this server. 21:55:05 yeah pgfoundry is dying 21:55:23 nothing I can do about it really, that just sucks 21:55:31 oh 21:55:31 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:55:51 is it dying as in "currently experiencing technical problems", or being shut down? 21:56:43 I wish I had a clear answer to that 21:56:55 it's been experiencing technical problems for years 21:57:09 it's just that nobody has the time to kill it down properly 21:57:16 Any of you guys ever use parenscript in a sizable javascript project? If so, how do you organize your parenscript code? in one large with-html-output block under a (ps tag? 21:57:42 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p54AF47FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:57:43 dim: also if you're loading data, then non-unwinding handlers are perfect, because that's precisely the place where you want to give the user the option to decide how to proceed, including "lemme massage the data a bit and retry" 21:58:00 it's the canonical use-case for proper conditions, as opposed to exceptions 21:58:44 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:51 yeah, but that tool I'm working on needs to be used in blind envs too, where there's no competent user in front of the computer (think CD or USB Key driven software updates, no internet connection, no IT staff) 21:58:52 ahungry: I used PS for a bit, but nothing really "sizeable", and my biggest project was really just client-side rendering using only JS, and I compiled it ahead of time 21:59:05 I just didn't want to write this much code in raw JS 21:59:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:30 dim: giving a default handler is fine too! 21:59:45 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:00:06 so you mean CL programmers would then be able to provide for their own restarts given that I signal the proper condition? 22:00:28 restarts give you the ability to prepackage certain sensible recovery strategies ahead of time, and the end code to choose them 22:00:32 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:01:03 in that case, it'd be installing a default handler which INVOKEs something like SKIP-AND-CONTINUE, with API to install custom handler if desired 22:01:28 so you mean CL programmers would then be able to provide for their own restarts given that I signal the proper condition? <-- their own handlers, more like 22:01:56 oh yeah 22:01:57 the way it works is the loader function gives you several options, such as ABORT, SKIP, USE-VALUE 22:02:11 where USE-VALUE is the standard restart meaning "I think I can handle it, lemme try" 22:02:51 my main audience not being CL hackers (it's not a lib), I didn't expend thougs on that, but I did make an clean enough API so that it's already possible to use pgloader as a CL lib in several ways 22:03:03 I might as well walk the extra mile and provide restarts then 22:03:18 not tonight tho 22:03:20 yeah 22:03:31 no rush to do it tonight, but it's something that should be there 22:03:40 yeah, agreed (now) 22:03:53 so many details to do right before it looks like CL code 22:03:56 because it means someone somewhere just won't have to hack your code apart to provide a tiny bit of custom handling 22:04:08 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:04:17 dim: was it written by non-CL people aping something in Lisp without real understanding? 22:04:21 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:04:24 or are you porting the Python version still? 22:04:35 is that ok? (defmacro with-pgsql-transaction ((dbname &key database) &body forms) ...) 22:04:54 -!- gajon [~gajon@201.141.129.56] has quit [] 22:05:03 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:05:04 mathrick: I did the python version, and I'm doing the CL rewrite and mostly learning CL along the way 22:05:11 ah 22:05:34 that's my first sizeable CL project, I did some things here and there before, but for way more restricted problems and no ambition comparable to pgloader 22:05:43 dim: I'd call it &body body, but yes, it's fine, and FORMS is also a not-uncommon name 22:05:45 like, code I would never consider publishing 22:05:48 ah 22:05:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:08 well then, you lucked out, because as I said, data loader is *the* canonical example of when you want restarts :) 22:06:18 (with-pgsql-transaction (dbname :database pomo:*database*) ...) would be a proper use of it, then, right? 22:06:25 yes 22:06:28 although 22:06:45 if you never expect it to grow another parameter, &optional database is also fine 22:06:54 but if there is a chance to, &key will save you API breakage 22:07:03 well pgloader erroneous data handling is by specs: dichotomy, fill in a reject data file and a reject log file, arrange to still COPY over the good row. 22:07:24 I don't know about other parameters, I know about a compiler warning that I don't understand 22:07:39 What's the warning? 22:07:40 right, but it should be usable as a lib with very few modifications too 22:07:44 dim: what warning? 22:08:06 oh I was looking at the call site rather than the defmacro bug I guess 22:08:28 yeah, another missing evaluation of parameters 22:09:15 yeah, you need to pay attention to your compiler warnings when working with macros 22:09:30 and missing/excessive evaluations will continue plaguing you for many more moons 22:09:40 it's one of the trickier parts to get a really solid mental model of 22:09:54 and nested backquotes, oh boy 22:10:11 if you ever do that, come here, you'll get a paper which explains how it works 22:10:16 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:20 because it does not work the way you expect it to 22:10:40 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 22:11:00 well I think I tried it once then stepped back and found the proper way to do what I wanted, which isn't nested backquotes ;-) 22:11:02 <|3b|> ahungry: for smaller stuff, i use (ps:ps ...) directly, larger stuff i tend to split the parenscript code into separate files 22:11:17 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.80.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:27 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:33 oh I'm still using some 22:12:23 <|3b|> ahungry: when using ps:ps, i tend to still have it in a separate URL, even if it is mixed in with CL code, so no with-html-output 22:14:14 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:20 arrsim [~user@27-32-235-88.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:14:57 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-vkqonwmhooznfano] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:15:28 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 22:16:06 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:16:10 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 22:16:48 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-135-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:06 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:15 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:18 refried__ [~refried_@lawn-143-215-114-45.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 22:19:03 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 22:19:56 dim: sorry, got cut. the uiop/image stuff won't help with threads. 22:20:12 some of the quux functions might help, but they need a new home. 22:21:41 Is the code.google.com repository for Lispbox likely to be the most recent / most updated place to get it? 22:22:27 Ah thanks, I think this macro will help with my code folding issues in emacs when nesting these defuns under ps 22:23:06 gajon [~gajon@201.141.129.56] has joined #lisp 22:23:08 (defmacro defjs (name args &rest fn) `(setf (gethash (string ',name) *js*) (ps (defun ,name ,args ,@fn)))) 22:23:27 Then in my output, i'll just do a loop across the *js* hash to print out all the compiled ps code 22:23:37 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:44 so now on the top level in my files I can use (defjs thing () (alert "it works")) 22:23:48 -!- normanrichards [~textual@mobile-166-147-065-149.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:21 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 22:25:19 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:11 dmiles [dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:04 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:17 -!- alexshendi [~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31:29 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:04 Holy shit. 22:34:31 I just downloaded the Windows package from http://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/ and it worked perfectly the first time. 22:34:41 I don't know who put that together, but I feel like I should buy them a beer. 22:37:13 -!- refried__ [~refried_@lawn-143-215-114-45.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:34 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-181-250.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:57 -!- strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:43 ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has joined #lisp 22:41:07 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-181-250.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:23 banannagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:43:51 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:53 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:04 nha [~prefect@koln-5d8149cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:06 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:44:31 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:39 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:45:58 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:27 -!- straycat [~straycat@cpc5-with6-2-0-cust871.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:35 originally it was peter seibel, you could by his book :) 22:48:13 platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 -!- platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:48:13 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:39 -!- gajon [~gajon@201.141.129.56] has quit [] 22:54:56 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:55:38 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:24 Bike_ [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:57:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:10 segv- Oh, I have a copy :) a real dead-tree copy even. It's right next to me. 22:59:55 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:00:28 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:00:39 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:00 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:01:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:03:11 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:04:42 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:06:09 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:06:13 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d8149cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:06:31 Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.51] has joined #lisp 23:07:41 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.97.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:09:41 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:11:09 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 23:13:46 _zxq9_ [~ceverett@206-169-73-202.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:02 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:09 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:35 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:15:44 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@206-169-73-202.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:06 -!- rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:19:01 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:20:55 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-125-176.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:23:24 phf [~phf@69.136.69.190] has joined #lisp 23:23:36 -!- phf [~phf@69.136.69.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:54 phf [~phf@c-69-136-69-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:11 -!- phf [~phf@c-69-136-69-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:48 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:26:53 phf [~phf@c-69-136-69-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:35 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 23:29:20 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 23:29:33 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-240-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:33 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:00 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 23:30:02 -!- _zxq9_ [~ceverett@206-169-73-202.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:30:35 oaulakh [~oaulakh@106.78.33.103] has joined #lisp 23:30:44 lisp for ubuntu ? 23:31:07 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:08 -!- phf [~phf@c-69-136-69-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:31:33 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 23:32:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:39 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 23:33:53 oaulakh: sbcl? 23:35:46 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:36:13 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Quit: jangle] 23:36:28 normanrichards [~textual@adsl-99-76-2-142.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:19 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-omwkmikuavvqnsya] has joined #lisp 23:38:32 oaulakh: You may pr may not want to build from source, as I think ubuntu has an oldish (1.0.55) sbcl. Definitely don't install lisp libraries through apt though, use quicklisp 23:40:16 oaulakh: my only ubuntu box is on an LTS; what versopm does "aptitude show sbcl" say it will install? 23:40:24 quicklisp 23:40:36 heh 23:40:38 do i have to build it from source? 23:40:49 oaulakh: qucklisp? It's a really simple install 23:41:08 clisp! 23:41:09 http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp <-- download that, then "sbcl --load quicklisp.lisp" 23:41:44 He's going to need lisp first. 23:41:56 Oladon_work: apt-get install sbcl will do that... 23:41:56 its lisp file how i can run this? 23:42:03 oaulakh: did you install sbcl? 23:42:09 jasom: yeah, but he hasn't got a lisp. 23:42:13 yeah apt working thanks buddy 23:42:34 so just sbcl --load quicklisp.lisp 23:42:42 okkk 23:42:52 it will give you instructions from there 23:43:14 okk thanks 23:43:20 its downloading 23:43:40 i will let you know if i face any problem 23:43:44 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:52 thank you very much jasom 23:44:06 oaulakh: well you'll probably want to get emacs+slime setup (that's the most commonly used IDE for sbcl). That's a whole 'nother bag of worms 23:44:24 okk 23:44:29 apt code? 23:45:09 yeah i want ide, if you know then please... 23:45:40 oaulakh: You can search for "emacs slime tutorial" for help on getting it set up 23:45:44 There are quite a few tutorials out there. 23:45:55 ok 23:46:18 oaulakh: apt-get install emacs 23:46:28 then follow the readme here: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-slime-helper 23:46:39 okk 23:47:02 You can mostly get around in emacs using just the mouse at first, and learn keyboard shortcuts as you go along 23:47:59 ok 23:48:05 thanks man 23:48:14 Alt-X then type "slime" (no quotes) then hit enter 23:48:19 it will give you a lisp prompt 23:48:37 wow 23:48:51 like python and octave have 23:48:53 (and those keystrokes should be done inside emacs, if that wasn't cleaR) 23:48:56 right...? 23:49:41 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-omwkmikuavvqnsya] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:49:41 just checking 23:49:49 I suck at communicating over IRC sometimes 23:50:42 -!- normanrichards [~textual@adsl-99-76-2-142.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:50:55 hahahhah 23:51:01 why? 23:53:49 well I can tell when someone is confused by the glazed-over expression IRL 23:54:24 yeah 23:54:55 but we can't in IRC, right 23:55:15 yup 23:56:09 wow 23:56:18 i was thinking something 23:56:40 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:05 can i design irc app that can send expression that other chat massengers have 23:57:24 oaulakh: you mean like videochat? 23:57:35 nooo 23:57:47 like facebook massengers have 23:57:56 like msn, skype have 23:57:59 oh, like just an avatar? 23:58:02 what? 23:58:07 *jasom* doesn't use any of those 3 programs :( 23:58:10 we can make irc beautiful 23:58:13 what do you mean by expression? emoticon? 23:58:28 irc is beautiful as text. leave it alone pls. 23:58:29 :) 23:58:32 haha 23:58:33 yeah i mean it 23:58:36 or do whatever you want :) 23:58:42 hahahha 23:59:07 oaulakh: there are several multi-platform chat programs that can do something like that, but their IRC integration is usually mediocre at best 23:59:38 well 23:59:42 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzZ] 23:59:51 i will see 23:59:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@97-118-164-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:58 of course I'm using: Irssi: Client: irssi 0.8.15 (20100403 1617) so you can guess I'm probably in holycow's camp for this one...