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ZZZzzz] 00:19:14 mrrob [~mrrob@50-83-163-92.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:20 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:42 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:21:48 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:37 -!- axs [~quassel@197.200.67.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:21 Crash95 [~Crash95@host126-5-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:23:53 -!- cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:28:36 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:29:01 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:33:33 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:28 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@242-124.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:04 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:08 -!- samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:07 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:41:18 -!- HG` [~HG@31.205.59.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:13 samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:21 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:02 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 00:50:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-131-235.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:53 shai__ [~shai@c-50-175-136-106.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:00 what do you guys think of clojure? 00:52:33 Never touched it. But I'm not a fan of Java. 00:53:01 Me either, from what I've heard. But I have read that clojure has repl and is a dialect of the lisp fam? 00:53:27 it is. Though it's mostly discussed on #clojure 00:53:30 this is a common lisp channel, if you don't know 00:53:31 Yes, that is based on the JWM or something. But I'm really not the best to help you. 00:53:48 personally, I found it a bit heavy on resources and requiring weird tinkering at times 00:54:14 p_l ok cool 00:54:53 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 00:56:03 noonian [~noonian@67-5-190-2.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:36 -!- samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:56:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:59 k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:58:11 Common Lisp is shakespeare and clojure is Hemmingway 00:58:55 ... wouldn't call it like that 00:59:17 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:24 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 01:07:10 -!- Crash95 [~Crash95@host126-5-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:07:54 -!- noonian [~noonian@67-5-190-2.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:22 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:38 -!- Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10:40 Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 01:11:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:42 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:19:09 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 01:19:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:21:20 -!- echo-area [~user@111.196.4.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:23 echo-area [~user@111.196.4.210] has joined #lisp 01:22:30 BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:44 UML is Dr Seuss 01:27:10 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:11 -!- danlentz0 is now known as danlentz 01:27:24 meh. 01:27:28 *p_l* had been using UML recently 01:28:24 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Dan Lentz ... Out.] 01:33:01 zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:02 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:38 p_l: I'm sorry. 01:34:02 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:54 not really. It's actually useful and practical. For documentation, that is 01:35:08 -!- chenjf [~chenjf@183.19.118.192] has left #lisp 01:35:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:12 For documentation I agree. 01:35:21 danlentz0, hey man 01:38:12 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 01:39:43 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:42:03 -!- mrrob [~mrrob@50-83-163-92.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:42 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.218.46.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:09 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:04:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-120-66.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:47 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:06:13 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9E8E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 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[~chatzilla@host-198.58.elzappero.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:04 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6825d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:37 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: be back soon, relocating...] 03:07:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 03:14:18 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 03:15:08 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:00 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d589.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 03:18:18 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 03:21:13 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:33 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:25 -!- shai__ [~shai@c-50-175-136-106.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:11 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:26:57 I wanted to ask if anyone knows how to return a newly created list from a function 03:27:07 this is how I tried and it doesn't work 03:27:10 ((atom l) '(list 0) ) 03:27:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:26 its a branch in cond 03:27:56 Nar: (list 4 2) 03:28:19 Nar: You don't need to quote it if you are using the `list' function. 03:30:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 03:35:29 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-166-112-222.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:38:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:38:52 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-106-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:26 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-112-222.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:18 shai__ [~shai@c-50-175-136-106.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:43 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:09 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:19 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:34 -!- Nar [~Nar___@67-204-244-234.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:34 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:58 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:27 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:16 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:48:26 -!- Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:50:10 b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-119-25.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 03:50:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:45 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 03:50:51 what's the equivalent of define in emacslisp? 03:50:54 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:54 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has joined #lisp 03:51:58 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-133-50.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:52:29 Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 03:52:37 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-214.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:52:56 er .. equivalent of what define? 03:53:09 oGMo: define from scheme 03:53:28 which is like defun in CL? in emacs it's also defun :P 03:53:59 I think Scheme's define also defines variables as defvar or defparameter in CL, right? 03:54:29 oGMo: how should i define a variable in CL? 03:54:55 define in scheme has different semantics. 03:55:15 <|3b|> define variables with function arguments, LET, LET* for locals, DEFVAR, DEFPARAMETER for global/special vars 03:55:27 I'd consider reading the emacslisp documentation. 03:55:32 It might contain valuable clues .. 03:56:28 heh 03:57:15 how do i install paredit? 04:02:58 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:35 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:05:32 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 04:08:42 -!- npatrick04 [~user@adsl-98-81-162-154.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:12:11 segmondx [~segmond@99.102.149.241] has joined #lisp 04:12:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:58 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9E8E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:40 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-79-243.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:14:54 Good morning everyone! 04:14:55 beach, memo from mathrick_: re: crash-proof, batteries are nice, but not enough. There are multiple ways in which that can fail and result in a "crash". IMHO, crash-proof should mean that if at any point in time the system is forcibly interrupted, upon restart a consistent state can be recovered representing some state at a point not much before the crash event 04:14:55 beach, memo from mathrick_: put another way, regardless of when a crash occurs, it should never be possible for it to cause loss of data other than that being written at the time 04:14:55 beach, memo from mathrick_: having *some* degree of crash-proof semantics is even more important when you're operating on a big shared object store, so the natural boundary of "now we're writing to files" disappears and the code might not even be aware of modifications of the (persistent) data store occurring 04:14:55 beach, memo from mathrick: security needs *much* more. You absolutely need to protect user's apps from other user's apps, and users from themselves, as well as handle users gaining non-default privileges. A formal security kernel is really a necessity in a flat-space system. W7 was the system I looked at, and it's a good fit, being conceived of for Lisp (Scheme, to be exact) 04:15:21 -!- segmondy [~segmond@99.110.99.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:16:04 minion: Thanks! 04:16:04 you're welcome 04:16:46 lol 04:16:50 good morning beach 04:18:50 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:20:04 dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:14 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:24:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:23 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:41 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:27 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:45 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:38:36 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:53 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 04:59:00 -!- macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #lisp 04:59:32 alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:01:12 sohail [~sohail@69-165-161-49.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:01:12 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-165-161-49.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:01:13 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 05:02:45 abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 05:05:55 shell 05:06:08 harish [~harish@194.6.182.13] has joined #lisp 05:07:45 deadghost [~deadghost@pool-72-67-200-248.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:48 hey beach, it's been a long time! 05:08:39 slyrus: Yes. Sorry about that. 05:08:47 What's up? 05:09:15 not too much, just wanted to say hello. little time for lisp hacking these days :( 05:09:29 Sure. I see. 05:09:56 -!- b80905 is now known as a` 05:10:09 -!- a` is now known as benjaminpetrenko 05:11:22 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:25:10 Anyone familiar with this doc? http://common-lisp.net/~frideau/lil-ilc2012/lil-ilc2012.html 05:26:46 -!- harish [~harish@194.6.182.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:30:34 k0001 [~k0001@host174.186-125-113.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:31:33 -!- shai__ [~shai@c-50-175-136-106.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:34:52 abunchofdollarsi: I am sure Fare is. :) 05:35:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.214] has joined #lisp 05:35:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.214] has quit [Changing host] 05:35:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:35:52 Right, that seems like a reasonable expectation; but that handle doesn't appear to be present. 05:36:05 he's around sometimes. 05:38:21 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:38 -!- Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:42:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:25 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:00 Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 05:45:12 -!- gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:28 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:02:21 Bacteria [~Bacteria@132.181.31.25] has joined #lisp 06:12:20 drmeister 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joined #lisp 06:59:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:59:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:00:32 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:31 harish [~harish@96-239.197-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:07:36 nostoi [~nostoi@86.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:20 minion: beans 07:09:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``beans''. 07:10:58 -!- harish [~harish@96-239.197-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:13:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:15 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@86.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:17:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:41 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.102.67] has joined #lisp 07:19:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has 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[~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:41:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-81.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:42:08 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:34 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 08:46:29 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:57:46 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@236-130.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:58:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@132.181.31.25] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 09:01:51 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:53 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:03:32 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 09:04:21 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:04:47 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 09:06:10 malbertife [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:06:45 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:11:19 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:44 effy_ [~quassel@111.197.232.147] has joined #lisp 09:12:09 -!- effy [~quassel@111.197.232.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:14:28 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-81.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:15:16 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 09:15:53 mathrick: Thanks for the remarks. 09:19:37 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.236.203] has joined #lisp 09:22:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-159.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:23:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:24:03 drmeister 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[~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:09:34 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 10:11:36 Any bad things happen if I delete my sbcl cache? 10:11:44 no 10:12:06 Awesome. 10:14:57 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:16:48 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:00 -!- harish [~harish@88.128.80.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:18:22 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:45 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:10 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 10:28:06 hualet [~user@183.94.93.242] has joined #lisp 10:42:48 beach: http://mumble.net/~jar/pubs/secureos/secureos.html <-- W7 10:51:43 pjb: W7 is capability-based kernel (security kernel now, not OS kernel), and from what I understand, it's fairly similar to EROS model 10:52:03 mathrick: Thanks. I'll read it later. 10:52:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:53:02 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:55:46 -!- hualet [~user@183.94.93.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:47 frxx [~frx@78-1-137-141.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:57:07 -!- frx [~frx@78-1-137-141.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:50 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-159.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05:00 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-224-223.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:13 add^_ [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:09:52 benjamin` [~user@ppp92-100-89-81.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 11:11:28 -!- benjaminpetrenko [~user@ppp92-100-119-25.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13:01 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has joined #lisp 11:15:37 mathrick: thanks. I'll have a look at it. 11:21:28 davazp [~user@178.167.128.90] has joined #lisp 11:24:17 -!- sword is now known as spork 11:25:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:32 -!- spork is now known as sword 11:30:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:33:44 -!- arnas [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [] 11:33:45 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:36 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:55 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:38:17 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 11:39:36 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:49 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:50 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 11:48:53 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:51:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-131-235.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:56:11 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:56:34 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 12:03:22 klmnop [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 12:06:35 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:07:48 -!- klmnop [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 12:22:43 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 12:26:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:45 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 12:28:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:59 pjb: http://www.eros-os.org/pipermail/cap-talk/2001-July/000604.html 12:34:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:42:35 -!- benjamin` [~user@ppp92-100-89-81.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:23 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 12:51:34 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 12:55:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:54 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:58:46 I'm using ERC Version 5.3 with GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.8.4, multi-tty) of 2013-09-26. 12:58:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@63.171-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:59:02 Poenikatu: good for you 12:59:36 stassats: Good heavens! An actual reply! 12:59:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:57 stassats: I have just bought a book for my Kindle. It's called "Land of Lisp: Learn to Program in Lisp, One Game at a Time!" by Conrad Barski, M.D. 13:01:41 stassats: So, as you can see, I'm a beginner at Lisp, but not to programming: I started with an assembler back in 1967! 13:01:59 well, good for you, i guess 13:02:15 stassats: How long have *you* been Lisping? 13:02:44 i don't remember 13:02:56 stassats: That long?!!! 13:03:29 -!- abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:31 not that long, i just don't remember exactly 13:03:36 it's either 7 or 8 years 13:03:37 Poenikatu: Lisp is awesome. You're gonna love it. 13:03:49 or 6 13:03:52 -!- CrazyEddy [~whiptail@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:05:20 didi: A long time ago, well, actually in 1987, I think, when I was a Ph.D. student at the Queens' University of Belfast, I had a `bright' student allocated to me. He waxed lyrical about Lisp. Eventually he go so side-tracked by it that he only got a lower-second (honours degree). 13:05:41 *go->got 13:06:04 didi: So it appears that Lisp can take over your life. 13:06:11 Poenikatu: Indeed. 13:08:08 didi: For the last 18 years, I got involved with the language Algol 68 which must now be regarded as obsolete. Did thousands of hours work with it. A few months ago, I decided that I wanted to learn a more mainstream language, and so set about learning C++. I've not made much progress, but on the way I succeeded in learning Elisp (the 4th attempt to do so). So now I'm tackling CL. 13:09:00 Poenikatu: you are programming in algol 68? what kind of things do you write in it, if i may ask? 13:10:12 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-122-143.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:49 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has joined #lisp 13:12:49 H4ns: I wrote the tangling part of a Literate Programming System. The program 'tang' worked very well. I then wrote a number of files containing macros which provided string processing, access to system routines like fork() and execv() as well as a binary chop macro which could be used with any data type. I then tackled the Xforms widget library, writing a macro file containing more than 2000 macros. 13:14:19 Poenikatu: interesting. on what plaform is that? 13:14:26 H4ns: On top of that work, which was based on a port of an Algol 68 compiler to Linux, I wrote a number of GUI programs, which acted as utilities and which were useful adjuncts to the tools I used on Linux for software development. An interesting project, but a few months ago, I decided that I wanted something new. 13:15:01 H4ns: I use the `sid' flavour of Debian GNU/Linux. 13:15:02 Poenikatu: nice! 13:15:55 H4ns: The point is, during nearly 20 years of my working life, I was a professional software engineer. Even my Ph.D. was in the field of software engineering. 13:16:23 Poenikatu: what's the point in that, then? :) 13:16:37 H4ns: So now, thoroughly retired, I am delighted to discover that at the age of 75, I can still learn a new language. 13:17:05 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9E8E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 Poenikatu: ah, ok - "land of lisp" is not the finest of texts, i'd say. i've heard quite some criticism about the quality of the example programs here. 13:18:09 Poenikatu: most people here recommend "practical common lisp" for people who've head prior programming experience. 13:18:18 H4ns: Oh. That's bad news. It seemed that I might learn new things to do. 13:18:56 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:01 Poenikatu: maybe you'll like "paradigms of artificial intelligence programming" by norvig 13:19:24 yCrazyEdd [~aerobic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:21:01 -!- yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy 13:21:09 And there's also "On Lisp". 13:21:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:21:47 Greetings lispers - is there any way to interrogate closures in SBCL to see exactly what they close over? 13:21:59 For instance - https://gist.github.com/drmeister/51feb8d8b5a8789eb6cd 13:22:04 for what purpose? 13:22:09 H4ns: I've just looked up "Practical Common Lisp" on Amazon and discovered that (1) It's a paperback (2) It costs £28.22 (3) Previous editions cost a whacking £70. 13:22:30 minion: PCL? 13:22:30 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:22:44 I create five closures - I'd like to see if :setx and sety close over both x and y or each just closes over the bindings that they need. 13:23:18 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-201-114.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:19 I'm still trying to figure out how to define closures when you use a mix if stack and heap based storage for bindings. It's been puzzling me for a long time. 13:23:44 hitecnologys: On Lisp costs a phenomenal £264.88. What's that in dollars, I wonder? A small fortune on one book. 13:23:51 I'm certain that I could massively speed up my compiled code once I figure this out. 13:23:58 drmeister: sbcl closes only over the bindings it needs 13:23:59 Poenikatu: it is available as pdf for free 13:24:07 Poenikatu: the original book is a collector's item 13:24:23 anyone read Let over Lambda? is it good? 13:24:37 H4ns: Which book is available as pdf for free? 13:24:44 Poenikatu: on lisp 13:24:47 Poenikatu: "On Lisp" 13:24:54 practical common lisp as well 13:24:56 Poenikatu: http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html 13:25:39 Poenikatu: also "ansi common lisp" from graham is available here http://techedu.cu.cc/Programming/Lisp/ANSI%20Common%20Lisp%20-%20Paul%20Graham.pdf 13:26:04 Poenikatu: graham writes well, but his texts are not tutorials and his style is not considered idiomatic cl by many 13:26:18 nilsi_ [~nilsi@121.227.92.62] has joined #lisp 13:28:30 H4ns: Yes, did a DuckDuckGo search and I have downloaded "On Lisp" as a Postscript file. What I've read so far with it reminds me of Forth (which was initially designed to program telescopes). 13:29:40 Poenikatu: lisp and forth share that the compilation system and the application programming level are both exposed to the programmer. also, both of them allow the programmer to change the language in arbitrary ways. 13:31:21 what would be the most efficient way of representing sets in common lisp? seems like using lists as sets isn't as quick as hash-tables at this point 13:31:23 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:33 i'm wondering if there's something quicker than hash-tables 13:33:00 stassats: How are the closures set up? The LET needs to know to set up the "x" and "y" bindings on the heap because the FUNCTION special operators will need them there. But if there were no FUNCTION's then x and y bindings could be stored on the stack - correct? 13:33:42 i lost you at "FUNCTION special operators" 13:33:48 guaqua: balanced binary trees. 13:33:54 Well, I'm bounden to you for pointing out that there are good free books about Lisp available on the net. 13:34:28 guaqua: fastest available way to store sets. 13:35:14 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:15 hitecnologys: do you have some library on your mind already? 13:35:43 guaqua: nope, but it's not that hard to write one by yourself. 13:36:03 okay 13:36:13 i'll take a look if there's already something 13:36:38 guaqua: if you want to see some Scheme code, you can look at SICP. 13:37:40 H4ns: Hm, I spend many hours at my computer every day (to the detriment of looking after myself!), so learning CL from Graham's book "ANSI Common Lisp" should be interesting. I must say that I prefer the screen of my PC to the small one of my Kindle. 13:38:10 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-toojsuulsqtzxtqf] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:38:40 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-xipxrupyoiffdsgx] has joined #lisp 13:43:18 l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 13:43:55 shikatano [~lou@108-81-218-106.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:52 STilda [bca2a71f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.31] has joined #lisp 13:45:52 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:22 malbertife [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:50:03 -!- l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 13:52:04 nipra1 [~nipra@122.177.198.236] has joined #lisp 13:52:28 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.246.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:40 Is (assoc foo bar) === (find foo bar :key #'cdr)? 13:54:17 no 13:54:26 hitecnologys: `assoc' look at the `car'. 13:54:47 It also operate on lists. 13:55:00 l_hsp [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 hitecnologys: cf. (find nil '(nil (nil . 1)) :key #'car) and (assoc nil '(nil (nil . 1))) 13:55:28 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:56:00 -!- l_hsp [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 13:56:01 didi: ah, yeah, sorry. 13:56:08 l_ [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 13:56:24 -!- Poenikatu [~user@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has left #lisp 13:56:51 stassats: is this the only difference? 13:57:11 yes 13:57:21 OK, thanks. 13:57:43 -!- l_ [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 13:59:17 -!- ubolonton [~user@117.5.47.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:02 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:05:04 l_ [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 14:10:16 -!- l_ [~klmnop@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 14:13:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.214] has joined #lisp 14:13:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.214] has quit [Changing host] 14:13:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:15:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:23 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:39 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:21:56 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:26 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:01 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:08 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:22 Kaisyu [~Thunderbi@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 14:26:40 -!- Kaisyu [~Thunderbi@183.109.111.173] has quit [Client Quit] 14:29:08 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #lisp 14:36:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:29 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:41:37 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-195-14-205-18.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:51 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 Is quickproject the reccomended way to create Cl projects? 14:42:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:24 francis_wolke: I don't know about "the" recommended way, but it sure creates a nice structure. 14:47:04 didi: Good enough for me. Thanks. 14:47:55 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:48:14 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@121.227.92.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:02 nilsi_ [~nilsi@121.227.92.62] has joined #lisp 14:54:57 francogrex [~user@91.179.222.216] has joined #lisp 14:56:19 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:50 cricri [~quassel@186-247-208-6.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:00:08 loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9129:143b:ba1e:f9bc] has joined #lisp 15:00:28 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:27 -!- STilda [bca2a71f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:26 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:07:35 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@236-130.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:08 Does sbcl's optimizer removes NOT if I write code like this: (if (not foo) bar baz)? 15:09:30 yes 15:10:15 Are there any kind of list of what sbcl tries to optimize or I have to look into code? 15:10:50 the latter 15:10:58 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:11:38 Fine, thanks. 15:16:10 Thankfully, analysing the behaviour of SBCL is much easier than any other (compiled) language that I can think of 15:19:31 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:17 antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 -!- shikatano [~lou@108-81-218-106.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 Kaisyu [~Thunderbi@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 15:28:47 -!- sword [~sword@c-24-21-33-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:05 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:28 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 15:32:41 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 15:33:22 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 15:41:15 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:29 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has joined #lisp 15:43:30 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:45:22 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.222.216] has quit [Quit: boring fucks] 15:47:38 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:04 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:34 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has joined #lisp 15:53:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:54:59 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:54:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:41 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:36 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:40 -!- MikeSeth_ is now known as MikeSeth 16:02:43 -!- MikeSeth [~me@174.143.244.95] has quit [Changing host] 16:02:44 MikeSeth [~me@unaffiliated/mikeseth] has joined #lisp 16:04:03 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:09:02 stassats: but: (eq (car (find nil '(nil (nil . 1)) :key #'car)) (car (assoc nil '(nil (nil . 1))))) --> t 16:09:36 what's that supposed to mean? 16:10:01 It means that find and assoc behave the same when you want to get the value of an entry. 16:10:13 car is not the value 16:10:37 oops, right. 16:14:19 -!- easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:37 easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has joined #lisp 16:16:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:10 But anyways, if you have cons cells in the sequence, then find can be used as assoc or rassoc. 16:17:23 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 16:27:30 loke`: howso, and how do you go about analysing SBCL (or something else, for that matter, where relevant differences appear)? 16:28:15 cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:48 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:29:07 mathrick_: Well, all I do is to go to the IF symbol and press M-. in SLIME, and I get the DEF-IR1-TRANSLATOR call that implements it 16:30:18 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 16:30:48 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96629.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:54 -!- nipra1 [~nipra@122.177.198.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:32:08 that transformation doesn't happen there 16:32:41 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:57 k0001 [~k0001@host237.181-1-200.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:37:16 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-201-114.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:27 -!- Kaisyu [~Thunderbi@183.109.111.173] has quit [Quit: Bye~] 16:40:39 loke`: right, but that only tells you how it was defined, which is a necessary but not sufficient component of performance analysis. What do you do to identify hotspots, or find out about missed optimisations or things where you go against the grain of what SBCL expects and can work with? 16:41:14 (declare (optimize (speed 3))) is already a good start, because it warns about a lot of things 16:41:32 but I'm always interested in people's toolsets 16:41:51 experience/think hard/read the source 16:42:26 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.128.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:34 what about profile? The experience I have with performance analysis is that at least 50%, your thinking is wrong :) 16:42:55 mathrick_: I usually read the disassembly, but that's just because that kind of stuff entertains me 16:43:12 mathrick_: what are you trying to ask? 16:43:23 anyway. time to go to sleep 16:43:25 -!- loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9129:143b:ba1e:f9bc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:49 stassats: open-ended question to probe actual tools employed 16:44:45 tools for what? 16:45:44 analysing the performance of code you have written 16:46:03 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 16:46:47 -!- cricri [~quassel@186-247-208-6.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:42 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:50:43 -!- vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:30 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 16:53:07 I ran an cl-opengl example that didn't work on my system (OSX). Is there any way to access threads associated with SLIME from SLIME itself? 16:54:18 benny [~benny@shell.spamt.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:36 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 16:56:10 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:56:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:34 francis_wolke: slime-selector should list the internal threads such as REPL, yes 16:56:39 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@121.227.92.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:54 mathrick_: Cool, thanks. 16:57:14 you mean slime-list-threads? 16:57:18 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:20 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-201-114.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:41 francis_wolke: cl-opengl most likely didn't work because you ran it not from the initial thread 16:58:22 stassats: Not entirely sure what you mean. How could I do anything but run it from the initial thread? 16:58:24 stassats: yes, I do, I just always go there through the selector 16:58:32 so it's slime-selector, t 17:00:09 Holy god the CL development is way better than clojure's. I can't belive I've been missing out on this the whole time. 17:01:37 heh 17:02:16 "development environment", I mean. 17:03:32 -!- benny [~benny@shell.spamt.net] has left #lisp 17:03:40 cricri [~quassel@186-247-208-6.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:08:00 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:08:04 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:09:30 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:53 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96629.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:40 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:14:51 k0001_ [~k0001@host95.186-108-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:15:48 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:16:06 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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[~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-5-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:54:08 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:54:38 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:03 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:06 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-167-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:52 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:12:19 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:12:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:23:34 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:28:41 Dennis_ [58d9b412@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.217.180.18] has joined #lisp 19:29:28 hi someone online? 19:29:41 Dennis_: Maybe... 19:29:41 yes 19:29:48 Sometimes there are. 19:30:02 i have a little probleme with lisp 19:30:13 mc40 [~mc@146.255.107.116] has joined #lisp 19:30:13 maybe someone can halp me 19:30:36 Ask then. 19:30:48 i just get an ipv6 conection but no ipv4 19:31:27 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 19:31:29 joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:32 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:58 i just get an ipv6 conection but no ipv4 using an AVM FritzBox, behind a FritzBox wich has internetconnection via dyn ipv6 and ipv4 over DS-Lite 19:32:49 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:33:24 and my main problem is that i need to connect to my network using a VPN from the outside (only ipv4) 19:34:08 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:34:39 so where is my fault? 19:34:44 wrong lisp 19:35:05 this is not a channel about cisco lisp 19:35:07 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 19:35:25 -!- joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:39 sorry 19:35:56 -!- Dennis_ [58d9b412@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.217.180.18] has left #lisp 19:39:57 meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has joined #lisp 19:44:51 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:44:55 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:47:12 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:33 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 19:50:25 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:48 -!- Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:03 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54:23 abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.225.80] has joined #lisp 19:55:03 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.225.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:03 stassats, I just looked into cisco lisp and I am so confused. Do you know why they chose their naming conventions? What does it have to do with lisp? 19:56:27 it has nothing to do with lisp the language 19:56:40 for instance there is a paper call EMACS-LISP, but afais see it has nothing to do with emacs or lisp 19:56:59 the authors had a wicked sense of humor, apparently 19:57:01 Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 19:57:27 lol that must 19:57:28 it 19:57:35 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 19:57:54 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-159.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:59:43 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:00:07 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 20:01:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:37 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:06:08 abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.225.80] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 -!- Cecil [~cecil@ip4dab2a90.direct-adsl.nl] has left #lisp 20:09:16 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:12:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:03 -!- mc40 [~mc@146.255.107.116] has quit [Quit: mc40] 20:14:30 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:16:33 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:18:51 joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:47 joneshf-laptop__ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:56 -!- joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:28 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:13 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:45 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 20:25:44 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:25:46 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 20:27:46 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:04 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:49 -!- cricri [~quassel@186-247-208-6.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:52 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:40 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:31:57 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:31:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:32:34 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:33:18 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:33:26 axs [~quassel@41.200.129.73] has joined #lisp 20:33:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:33:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:35:44 -!- axs [~quassel@41.200.129.73] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:45 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:37:34 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:52 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:42:55 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:43:17 minion: memo for beach: random food for thought: make it less than excruciatingly painful to implement a Vim mode on top of Climacs? 20:43:17 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 20:43:31 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 20:44:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:47:00 -!- meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:48:20 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:27 -!- joneshf-laptop__ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:49:56 chris_l [~androirc@p5091E019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:12 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-69-56-230.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:52:36 k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.75.74] has joined #lisp 20:56:04 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host241.181-1-203.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:40 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 minion: memo for beach: also, an important matter to settle: VIER will be stand for what? VIER Improves EINE's Revisions? :) 21:05:36 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 21:07:55 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:27 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:09:12 There's already a VIER emacsen. 21:09:30 Vier Integrates Emacs Regexps. 21:09:39 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:47 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:13:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:54 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:14:57 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-48-193.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:16 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:39 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:04 If I'm adding some consistency checks inside methods, should I use `assert' or there is a more appropriate expression? 21:17:36 for types, you may want check-type 21:18:00 Good. I'm using it too for types. 21:18:23 Be sure to give places to assert, so it makes continuable errors. 21:20:41 That I'll have to think about. Some of these consistency checks are for "something horrible has happened". 21:20:59 For that it might be preferable to use conditions. 21:21:18 Ah, OK. Good to know. 21:21:24 like (define-condition something-horrible-has-happened (error) ) (error 'something-horrible-has-happened ) 21:21:33 I'll do that. 21:22:11 add^_ [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:23:03 consider using simple-error instead 21:23:17 as a superclass 21:23:22 add^_` [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:23:38 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:23:46 Right. I'll look into it right now. 21:24:00 -!- Hydan is now known as Guest78166 21:24:14 -!- Guest78166 is now known as hydan` 21:24:18 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:33 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:24:39 -!- add^_` is now known as add^_ 21:25:10 -!- hydan` is now known as hydan 21:29:09 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-127-72.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:07 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:30:28 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:39 stassats: I'm having trouble finding out what's the difference between `error' and `simple-error'. What is it? 21:34:54 clhs simple-condition 21:34:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_smp_cn.htm 21:35:05 namtsui [~user@76.21.124.173] has joined #lisp 21:36:19 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:09 jk121960 [~root@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:40 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:39:41 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 21:43:58 Hi I just started to work with lisp, I am using sbcl and going through a tutorial, I have a statement that is failing, it states that "The name "EXT" does not designate any package" does this mean that I need to install something else for this to work? Is it called something different in scbl vs CLisp any help is appreciated thanks 21:44:21 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:44:30 it's an implementation extension package 21:45:20 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:45:34 the statement is (ext:shell do you know what this package is called I seaarched the repo and didn't come up with anything. I am on Gentoo 21:45:46 sbcl doesn't have such a function 21:45:52 it has sb-ext:run-program 21:45:59 no replacement for this 21:46:22 ok so sb-ext:run-program does the same thing 21:46:27 -!- chris_l [~androirc@p5091E019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:46:30 not exactly 21:46:45 what are you trying to do? 21:47:04 OK I am attempting to run GraphViz in a command line statement 21:47:14 do you have quicklisp yet? 21:47:36 yes that is installed 21:47:37 jk121960: (sb-ext:run-program "graphviz" '("arg1" "arg2") :search t) will do 21:47:39 i recommend external-progam 21:47:45 "external-program" 21:48:05 it should let you run things like that the same way on many CL's 21:48:43 what is external-program? statment or from aother package 21:49:08 another package .. you should be able to get it with (ql:quickload "external-program") 21:50:04 OK that sounds good I will give that a try and let you know, thanks for all your help "stassats and oGMo" 21:55:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:11 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-201-114.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:56:43 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:25 pjb: really? Is it in any way related to EINE/ZWEI/DREI? If not, then it doesn't matter 22:01:44 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:03:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:54 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:56 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:11 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:33 sohail [~sohail@108.175.227.63] has joined #lisp 22:09:33 -!- sohail [~sohail@108.175.227.63] has quit [Changing host] 22:09:33 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:16:05 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 22:20:39 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:52 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 22:22:58 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:23:28 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:26:16 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:28 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:38 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-189-182.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:34:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:44 em_ [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:10 ther4pist [~cgiirc@mistero.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 22:39:43 do you think lisp is a good language to get ones feet wet in functional programming? my prior experience is C, C# and python 22:40:18 might be. Depends on whether you work better with complete makeover or something a bit gentler 22:40:35 (IMO Common Lisp is the gentler option here than, let's say, haskell) 22:40:49 Though thinking of CL as a functional language is a bit of a misconception. 22:41:14 antoszka isnt it? 22:41:35 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 22:41:45 k0001 [~k0001@host231.186-125-145.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:41:53 Well, not anymore than the next guy (be it some Scheme, Ruby, Python, whatever). 22:42:10 s/anymore/any more/ 22:42:48 <|3b|> scheme and clojure are more focused on 'functional' style than cl, which supports lots of styles of programming 22:43:28 <|3b|> it is more convenient in CL than in something like C, but the language doesn't make any effort to encourage it 22:44:19 Is this considered bad style: (defun foo () (when something (error ...)) (do-normal-stuff))? What I mean is, can I use an `error' to make a non-local exit and not call `do-nomal-stuff'? 22:44:21 Though for Scheme, I'd say it's more of a question of convention/culture, the language itself does not propose any particularly 'functional' constructs. Not more than CL, anyway. 22:44:22 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:44:43 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.75.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:16 i am not familiar with ruby or scheme. isn't CL more functional than python? 22:45:49 Well, lambdas aren't broken in CL, so it's already a step forward :) 22:46:20 hehe. yeah it's one of those things I dislike in python 22:46:36 <|3b|> didi: seems reasonable to me, possibly add some way for it to correct the problem and continue to do-normal-stuff if you want to make it nicer 22:46:52 But for a very functional experience with lazy evaluation, immutable stuff and all that, you might want to explore the Haskell route. CL is nice for other reasons. 22:47:17 <|3b|> CL provides lots of imperative constructs, destructive modification, object oriented constructs, etc 22:47:32 There are packages for CL that allow you to do all that, but they're rather niche. 22:48:46 |3b|: Cool. But what I have in mind is a "there is no way to continue" type of condition. 22:49:00 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 22:49:05 then ERROR is the right way to do it 22:49:05 you can write fortran programs in CL 22:49:19 you can't do that in Haskell IIUC 22:49:27 -!- em_ [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 22:50:08 prxq: you can 22:50:30 didi: unless you want to support "oh alright, nevermind then" kind of usage more than "let's do something about it". Ie. is (map some-list-with-errors #'foo) the primary way you'd use it? If so, no ERROR probably. Otherwise, ERROR 22:51:01 stassats: you can't do that so easily, i wanted to actually write. 22:51:02 stassats: other than by unsafePerformIO? 22:51:19 what do you think of this? "However, prominent functional programming languages such as Common Lisp, Scheme, Clojure, Racket, Erlang, OCaml, Haskell, Scaland F#." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming 22:51:52 ther4pist: compared to C, CL is functional on many levels. Compared to Haskell, not that much 22:52:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:52:05 I think it's just copying over the common urban knowledge about Common Lisp without giving it much thought. 22:52:13 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 22:52:21 *|3b|* notes 'common lisp' is the only one without citations 22:52:36 ther4pist: it's misrepresenting things. CL has spawned much research into functional language at some point in history, but itself it's not a functional language. It's a language that makes functional programming possible, along with OO, imperative, and some other styles that don't even exist elsewhere 22:52:48 ther4pist: You might want to read this guys votum separatum as well: http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/guest/chap5.html#sec_1 :) 22:52:57 s/guys/guy's/ 22:53:03 ther4pist: it may surprise you, but not all lispers think of 'functional programming' as something exceedingly positive. 22:53:06 whether cl is a functional language is the most boring topic 22:53:14 minion: chant 22:53:14 MORE THAN 22:53:16 mathrick I see, interesting. what are those other styles? 22:53:35 <|3b|> ther4pist: see second paragraph of 'history' on that wikipedia page 22:53:39 stassats: it's also too common because people misrepresent it commonly in mainstream media 22:54:00 ther4pist: oop, etc. Pretty unique is the style called 'bizarro macrology'. 22:54:16 mathrick: My user case is for consistency checks. Something MUST be this way at this point. 22:54:31 didi: then definitely ERROR, that's what it's for 22:54:37 <|3b|> didi: and there is no way to make it consistent? 22:54:45 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:54:49 ther4pist: Yeah, 'bizarro macrology' is a style deeply explored in the book I linked above :) 22:54:59 ok :) 22:55:00 i'm rather much more interested in why the hell are signals and traps borked on SBCL on solaris-sparc 22:55:02 ther4pist: context-oriented programming for example. Logic programming via embedded Prolog. All kinds of "DSL programming" if you will 22:55:15 mathrick I see 22:56:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-159.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:53 ther4pist: a case of the latter could be a thesis I helped prepare, which designed and implemented a language for declarative setup of geometry in modular robots, thus replacing thousands LoC of repetitive, hard-to-debug and error-prone C code with half a page of executable, purely declarative pseudocode 22:57:31 mathrick: is that paper available for reading somewhere, btw? 22:57:33 as is usually the case, though, it was never actually picked up by the lab it was written for 22:57:51 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:00 antoszka: sadly only in dead-tree form. I tried to find it recently, but uni library has no electronic copies on file :\ 22:58:12 :/ 22:58:40 I'll see if that friend still has a copy somewhere 22:58:53 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:00:48 antoszka: my favourite aspect of it was that they had been, at that point, about 4 years in into designing a new functional language for those robots and making very little progress. As far as I can tell, we've implemented more of actual semantics in an afternoon than they had in those 4 years. Granted, it was running on an emulator controlled from Lisp image and not compiling down to machine code, but it's not like their language did anything useful with 23:01:20 heh 23:01:20 the tiny subset they had implemented a compiler for 23:01:25 Was it Common Lisp? 23:01:33 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:35 the thesis? Yes 23:02:01 it was repurposing an earlier Java (the emulator) <-> Scheme bridge 23:02:26 ah 23:02:45 using http://foil.sourceforge.net/ 23:02:56 |3b|: Not for some of them, no, unfortunately. 23:03:08 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:09 Hickey being known for inventing clojure later 23:03:21 |3b|: They are things that shouldn't happen, ever. 23:03:30 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 23:03:59 antoszka: but it was compiling down to CL methods, and making it generate C instead would've been relatively easy if anyone had the mind to use it in real life 23:04:36 Right. Pity it died. Did the whole project die altogether, or was it finally implemented some other way? 23:05:46 antoszka: oh right, I forgot one thing. The paper was in Danish, so it'd be not particularly informative for you anyway :\ 23:05:57 Heh, no. I don't do Danish. 23:06:19 (even though we're both Polish, the Uni was Danish and we decided to go that way and not English. I forget why we chose Danish) 23:07:18 antoszka: I have no clue honestly, I have no contact with that lab, and neither has the friend. I suspect they're still dabbling mostly in awful C 23:07:34 see also: Lisp at JPL 23:07:42 Do you live permanently in Denmark these days? 23:07:45 aye 23:07:48 Yeah, I like the text about JPL. 23:08:29 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has joined #lisp 23:08:29 in case my lag reorders things, it was "aye, I live in DK permanently" 23:09:18 :) 23:09:23 Oh, another Pole. 23:09:25 Well, there's google translate nowadays. 23:09:53 pjb: I'm sure it's going to do stellar job on technical Danish :) 23:10:22 Perhaps more than on every day conversation, given that it's more probable to find technical documents translated on the web, than chit chat. 23:11:04 (the web being the source of google translation knowledge). 23:12:09 antoszka: http://modular.tek.sdu.dk/index.php?page=robots <-- we were working on ATRON (or emulator thereof). It has I think 128KB of RAM and 2MB of EEPROM or something similar, and costs 10k DKK a pop 23:12:22 or did, hard to say 23:12:31 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d589.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:48 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:49 mathrick: Watching the video, looks cool. 23:15:39 antoszka: I think it was a perfect demonstration of the importance of having a flexible language that implements the boring parts of language research for you. That was what allowed us to design, implement and test a DSL for describing the geometry of such a robot and the role for each module to assume using no global information and only the state and connectivity locally available to each module, and do it pretty much in an afternoon 23:15:56 the rest was debugging, polishing, making it more robust and complete 23:16:01 Yeah, definitely. 23:16:05 but the core was done in a few hours 23:16:29 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.10.201] has joined #lisp 23:17:10 is this a good CL tutorial? http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html 23:17:21 not really 23:17:37 it's a good sales pitch, but not particularly good intro or representation of the language as she is spoke 23:17:38 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d589.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 ther4pist: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 23:18:52 thanks I will check it out 23:19:56 That's what I reproach to Racket. Now we have a rapist here. :-( 23:21:26 pjb: I can't parse what you just said:( 23:22:14 my next language will be named racquet 23:22:42 pjb she was 14 but she had a body of a 15 year old 23:24:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:10 awkward silence... yes that was a joke :) 23:27:07 -!- malbertife__ [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:29:28 that was rather obvious, fortunately 23:29:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:21 billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-21-90.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:22 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-21-90.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:31:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:31:26 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:36 -!- frxx is now known as frx 23:35:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:41 -!- antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:38:05 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:39:08 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:42 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host89-217-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:42:59 given (1 2 3) and (10 11) how would I get ((1 10) (1 1) (2 10) (2 11) (3 10) (3 11))? 23:43:06 Posterdati [~kvirc@host89-217-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:43:42 second element should have been (1 11) 23:47:04 <|3b|> (loop for i in '(1 2 3) append (loop for j in '(10 11) collect (list i j))) ? 23:47:54 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 23:49:35 looks good thanks 23:50:03 (alexandria:map-product 'list '(1 2 3) '(10 11)) 23:50:20 *|3b|* suspected there was something for that in alexandria, but failed to find it 23:50:44 nice 23:51:27 worth remembering that the general name for this notion is "cartesian product" 23:53:43 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp