00:02:52 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:12 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:05:51 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 00:07:37 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:07:52 -!- echo-area [~user@111.196.6.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:33 macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:09:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:02 Despothes [~user@fsf/member/Despothes] has joined #lisp 00:10:57 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:12:49 joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@c-76-105-7-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:49 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:18 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:48 -!- opoku [~opoku@70-36-138-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:07 -!- Despothes [~user@fsf/member/Despothes] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:17 -!- jathd [~user@fr141-3-78-229-169-69.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:17:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:17:36 opoku [~opoku@70-36-138-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:41 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:19:36 -!- knob [~knob@173.215.135.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:01 NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:04 knob [~knob@173.215.135.151] has joined #lisp 00:21:26 -!- opoku [~opoku@70-36-138-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:49 zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.158.66] has joined #lisp 00:27:23 knob3212 [~knob@173.215.135.151] has joined #lisp 00:28:09 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 00:28:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:30:02 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:18 -!- knob [~knob@173.215.135.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:32:03 Hi, it looks like this page is missing a step: 00:32:12 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Setting-up-the-lisp-image.html#Setting-up-the-lisp-image 00:32:25 after the (load "/path/to/swank-loader.lisp") 00:33:04 I think it needs a (swank:init) or something 00:33:18 before you can do (swank:create-server) 00:34:37 swank-loader.lisp defines a "loadup," a "setup" and an "init" 00:34:49 i'm not quite sure which one to use, but it looks like "init" is the ticket 00:35:07 (I guess it should be obvious since that's the only one which is documented...) 00:35:37 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 00:37:15 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host65.186-109-105.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:01 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:38:09 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:29 init works, yeah 00:38:34 it's swank-loader:init i think 00:38:41 knob5312 [~knob@173.215.135.151] has joined #lisp 00:39:05 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.38] has joined #lisp 00:39:21 -!- knob3212 [~knob@173.215.135.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:46 -!- seangrove [~user@71-88-42-163.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:06 seangrove [~user@71-88-42-163.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:41 necroforest [47c0a3ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.192.163.173] has joined #lisp 00:43:26 Anyone in here familiar with newLISP? How can I do floating point math on it? The + - * / operations all round their arguments to integers. 00:44:23 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:46:46 <|3b|> necroforest: this channel is about common lisp 00:46:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:08 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:48:34 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 00:48:51 dcooper8: IIRC, i start swank server in stumpwm as: (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :swank) (setf (symbol-value (intern "*log-output*" :swank)) nil) (funcall (intern (string '#:create-server) :swank) :port 4005 :style :spawn :dont-close t) 00:49:35 |3b|: I figured someone in here has tried it. #newlisp is dead. 00:49:58 <|3b|> necroforest: people here who looked at it seemed to generally not like it :p 00:50:26 well, I don't know that. I figured I'd try it out. 00:51:36 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:52 zRecursive: so the asdf system for swank also init's it, apparently. 00:51:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:16 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:53:56 dcooper8: I have (push #p"~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20130615-cvs/" asdf:*central-registry*) before (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :swank), so the swank is from slime 00:56:12 <|3b|> necroforest: looks like you are supposed to use add,mul,etc for floats 00:56:20 there's a newer slime in quicklisp 00:56:22 *|3b|* agrees with the "not liking it" based on that 00:56:25 from 20131003 00:56:51 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-174-43.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:52 imma try to piggy back from quicklisp-slime-helper, the way it grabs the current swank-loader 00:56:55 that makes perfect sense ;) 00:57:38 i'm just trying to get a remote lisp bootstrapped so i can connect to it through an ssh tunnel from my friendly local desktop emacs 00:57:56 just today figured out what an "ssh tunnel" is 00:59:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:54 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D7E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:27 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 01:02:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.68.206] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 01:03:28 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-dlkusuoajaparzln] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 01:03:39 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 01:07:23 ASau` [~user@p5083D7E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:33 leo2007 [~leo@123.119.81.79] has joined #lisp 01:10:48 -!- sqeabtoxd [~dxq@m5md.x.rootbsd.net] has left #lisp 01:19:01 -!- X1234 [~Username@94.197.207.94.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:19:07 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:21 X1234 [~Username@188.31.6.93.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:23:15 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 So, question. How does one implement security in a Lisp machine? 01:23:55 Genera was implemented as a single user operating system, so this wasn't a problem, but on networked and multiuser machines, if every application can inspect the state of any other application... 01:24:30 And there's no arbitrary separation of applications into separate memory spaces. Everything's just floating around in the same namespace, which is cool, but from a security perspective, couldn't that be problematic? 01:24:41 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:24:52 In other words, can someone help me understand what would be a good, effective security model for multi-user and networked lisp machines? 01:25:10 there are modern (experimental) OS designs that don't separate memory spaces 01:25:18 Sure 01:25:33 Genera was one of them, but LambdaMoo and Microsoft's Singularity did that too. 01:25:59 i think they use 'capabilities'. i think the eros project did a lot of work on those. 01:26:05 But it's not just the memory space (un)separation that's concerning, it's coupling that with how... closely every application can touch every other application 01:26:16 Bike: I'll look into that 01:26:36 well, i don't know about genera. i think it boils down to not letting applications screw with each other in an uncontrolled fashion. 01:26:50 -!- seangrove [~user@71-88-42-163.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:27:09 seangrove [~user@71-88-42-163.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:51 Bike: Do you think immutability would fix that? 01:28:36 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-174-43.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:42 there are other ways to destroy a program, surely 01:29:10 and it's not just "screwing" with each other, what if you had your browser open, and were typing some banking information in, and another application was freely reading the state of that program? 01:29:33 well, right. 01:29:39 My questions probably have some very simple answers, I suppose I'm just too much of a noob 01:29:54 i'm just being informal and not thinking too hard. 01:31:26 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:31:48 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-112-222.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:51 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:57 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: need flash :```(] 01:38:02 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 01:40:21 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:40:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:06 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 01:41:17 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:44 -!- necroforest [47c0a3ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.192.163.173] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:43:09 ok, retard question... how do i do two things after another (with neither being the operand of the other) ... 01:43:28 clhs progn 01:43:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 01:44:03 and please don't use 'retard' as an insult 01:44:11 it's not meant as an insult 01:44:14 The only insult is to pretend to be retarded. 01:44:38 Which you shouldn't do -- it's disrespectful. 01:44:59 Just write out "too lazy to apply basic literacy and research skills" instead. 01:45:09 i'm saying the fact that i didnt know how to do it is such. an abstract thing having a property is unrelated to a person having an illness that is homonymous.... but yea, i get your point, wont be repeated 01:45:44 Also, please learn how to spell "won't". :) 01:45:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:54 -.- aye, sir 01:45:57 Elvaron: You think it was by mere coincidence that that word is used in that fashion? 01:46:25 kristof: no, I acknowledge that the association of the two meanings is insulting to certain people, thus "I get your point" 01:46:48 I'm merely expressing that my use of it was not with the intent of insult. 01:47:16 i.e. i phrased it poorly, i'm not a mean person 01:50:57 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:45 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:04 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:46 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:57:57 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:09 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:59:07 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:38 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:53 BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:48 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has left #lisp 02:03:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:22 kinit 02:03:27 oops 02:03:39 password: 02:03:46 :-) 02:03:49 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.158.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:03:53 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:05:51 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 02:06:20 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:34 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:06:34 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 02:09:56 -!- Guest19106 [~minimus@108.67.30.36] has quit [] 02:09:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:04 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:52 ASau` [~user@p5083D6A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:13:49 so is there some trick to using tramp with a remote slime connection 02:13:54 so that C-c C-k will work? 02:14:28 (and ideally so that *load-truename* in the file will work to point to the actual location of the file on the remote swank host) 02:14:51 i think the tramp/slime connection is gone over in the slime manua. 02:15:28 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D7E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15:46 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 02:18:02 thanks. i see some info here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/17592 02:18:50 but maybe checking the actual manual would have been wise... don't know why I thought what i'm doing is so far off the reservation. 02:19:34 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.197.208] has joined #lisp 02:20:34 this looks fairly straightforward: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/slime/doc/Setting-up-pathname-translations.html 03:09:58 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:03 03:10:03 -!- names: ccl-logbot mathrick Gooder BrianRice p_nathan npatrick04 cmm neufeld echo-are` sellout- araujo ASau yrk _schulte_ namtsui desophos drmeister breakds jewel ehaliewicz seangrove X1234 leo2007 zacharias dmiles_afk lyanchih knob5312 Sgeo [SLB] dcooper8 NNshag macrobat mikaelj aoh Jubb Mon_Ouie gzg` xk05 hiyosi ianmcorvidae kliph platypine CrazyEddy axion bitonic |JRG| bananagram gensym gzg sshirokov Elvaron ludocode samskulls kcj benny Beetny nug700 doomlord_ 03:10:03 -!- names: zophy prip clmsy xotedend oleo optikalmouse acieroid segv- patrickwonders Zagaba dfox theos Yonkie GuilOooo redline6561 yacks balle ozialien MrWoohoo add^_ phadthai sttau slyrus Bike cdidd cods kpreid JPeterson antgreen stardiviner nialo loke Tristam Fade zenoli_ koisoke easye` DrForr sigjuice_ setheus_ Codynyx_ Wukix` DrCode milosn_ impulse scharan felipe tessier DollyDuplex z0d MikeSeth ineiros ski Mandus eli irq0 obre vnz zfx- stokachu alabaster 03:10:03 -!- names: PuffTheMagic Patzy jaimef MoALTz ivan4th kirin` bben eigenlicht ^self _5kg ered Kabaka marsam 16WABC3M5 seantallen yeltzooo sid_cypher iwilcox effy sword freiksenet kanru cyphase Zhivago yroeht kqrx emma rabite finnrobi wilfredh Posterdati ferada clop joast surrounder mtd_ jayne specbot zbigniew Shozan dotemacs nullman robot-be` hugod sirdancealot Krystof shifty`` bobbysmith007 asedeno PuercoPop housel schoppenhauer d2biG theBlackDragon adhoc froggey 03:10:03 -!- names: wizard` rtoym wolgo rk[imposter] ezakimak sabra Praise aeth _d3f willyfrog fikusz yano angavrilov Natch hpd felideon bjorkintosh guaqua`` fmu____ tensorpudding srcerer AntiSpamMeta notori0us cnl pjb __main__ sepi`` yonkeltron TristamWrk cpape The_third_man dan64 |3b| AeroNotix abeaumont keen____ flip214 w|t ZombieChicken lemoinem daimrod guyal brown` Khisanth aftershave paddymahoney Subfusc foom ircbrowse nightshade427 nicdev tkd REPLeffect ve cibs mal___ 03:10:03 -!- names: Tarential arrsim ozzloy joneshf-work antoszka minion ivan\ EvW Oddity fe[nl]ix Blkt naryl fmu galdor xristos p_l kbtr drdo cpt_nemo tvaalen eagleflo lusory wchun sytse rvirding rotty ft bege delYsid clog BlastHardcheese mau_ hypno kmder dlowe Ralt copec Kruppe gemelen jasom karupanerura gabot otwieracz igorw plathrop djinni` cmbntr_ quasisane pchrist qiemem stnly luis ahungry sfa aajmakin ivan vhost- dim Anarch sauerkrause capisce ThePhoeron gko 03:10:03 -!- names: spacefrogg^ ecraven nightfly aerique abend j0ni Tribal ggherdov Guest97484 Neptu gf3 K1rk jd__ smull_ nuba cmatei dsp_ ashish__ jsnell_ tychoish Yamazaki-kun sbryant Watcher7 Tordek mshroyer tali713 d4gg4d_ justinmcp Amadiro varjag oGMo Ash cross newcup epsylon` arbscht nbouscal eak hyperboreean j_king banjiewen Cheery tomaw johs pegu brucem stopbit ``Erik sjl adeht Roin eMBee Adeon oconnore samebchase H4ns subtlepath ramus gluegadget expez KingNato_ 03:10:03 -!- names: Sourceless nitro_idiot_ photex madnificent wyan pok vsync 03:10:31 -!- nug700 is now known as nugTheDragon 03:13:07 npatrick04: there is the terminfo package 03:13:15 it's on quicklisp 03:13:38 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:58 Yeah, I just found that as well which provides good info regarding terminal escape sequences and such, but provides nothing in the way of accessing OS calls. 03:15:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.217.118] has joined #lisp 03:15:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.217.118] has quit [Changing host] 03:15:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:17:18 npatrick04: in general, you don't need to access OS calls. 03:17:27 In fact, it is better, if you don't, really. :) 03:17:39 Well, that would limit portability... 03:18:17 No, you don't understand it. 03:18:25 Accessing OS calls is what limits portability. 03:19:46 I understand. I'm willing to be limited to OSs that support POSIX. :) I was just hoping to use something other than the sb-posix package directly. 03:20:12 POSIX isn't portable enough either. 03:20:47 Besides, in some places POSIX makes wrong decisions, and this is making life harder. 03:20:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:22:40 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.168.6] has joined #lisp 03:23:13 Ok. My current issue is querying and modifying termios options for a couple of different applications. Any thoughts? 03:23:36 Uff! 03:23:42 Why do you need it at all? 03:24:52 For interfacing with some legacy serial devices as well as to provide a raw IO user interface that doesn't suck. 03:25:26 Do you really have such devices for start? 03:25:35 Or is it a theoretical consideration? 03:25:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:08 I have two different devices to interface...well one at the moment and another is somewhat theoretical. 03:27:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27:48 my cl:machine-instance is "#x7f0101" 03:27:54 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:02 could that be causing problems with my tramp slime-filename-translations? 03:28:11 does that # need to be escaped somehow? 03:29:26 npatrick04: well... nobody can stop you if you decide to use termios or whatever. 03:30:30 npatrick04: but I'd like to point that termios doesn't sound to be in POSIX. 03:31:41 The termios suite of functions are in posix, assuming you're talking about the standard rather than some interface library. 03:31:42 And for "raw I/O" it is definitly better to use other abstractions than termios. 03:32:06 Why not open a byte stream? 03:33:08 Well... Probably it is described in POSIX, but I'd be hesitant to use them. 03:33:38 Then you won't succeed on posix platforms. 03:33:51 Since those are how you control serial devices there. 03:33:57 There're curses, which are more portable than termios. 03:34:15 If you're talking about "raw I/O user interface". 03:34:22 Um, you want to use curses to configure serial devices? 03:34:39 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.17.75] has joined #lisp 03:35:07 As for serial devices, I would implement abstraction over it in C. 03:36:43 I appreciate all the input. I've got a termios interface implemented via sb-posix which provides all I need for modifying how the serial port handles control characters, baud-rate, etc. 03:38:57 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:59 The interface exists, and as much a pain in the butt it has been to learn, it works. I'm just trying to not lock in my compiler choice. 03:40:54 Just put a thin layer of abstraction over it for the tasks you need done. 03:41:09 Then if need be someone can switch out the implementation easily. 03:41:30 Thanks. 03:41:48 -!- X1234 [~Username@188.31.6.93.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:04 X1234 [~Username@188.29.96.238.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:42:06 Perhaps if it gets beyond one implementation, I can put out a package. 03:43:27 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:45:44 npatrick04: I think that in modern times you can do all that setup with stty(1). 03:46:08 If you want to spring a shell, in return for not working on systems that don't have it. 03:46:15 At least I had that in prototype when I was working with trunk radio. 03:46:38 -!- axion [~axion@74.214.214.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:49 I consider system(3) more reliable than termios(3). :) 03:46:59 ASau: I'll look into stty 03:47:20 Then you're insane. 03:47:29 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:48:04 I have just checked the code, and it was something like "stty 9600" and then attempt to make the device autoconfigure with chat(1) by sending "at" sequences. 03:48:57 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:54 Zhivago: I didn't say when...but it is good to know what's out there 03:51:25 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:51 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:54:38 -!- nugTheDragon is now known as nug700 03:58:54 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:48 -!- notori0us is now known as czl 03:59:50 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:59:54 -!- czl is now known as notori0us 03:59:55 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:02 Putri [~putri@36.73.196.62] has joined #lisp 04:02:05 yay got slime to compile remotely with slime tramp filename translations 04:02:24 my problem was slime-tramp wasn't getting initialized, because i was just doing (require 'slime-tramp) 04:02:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 04:02:52 instead of including 'slime-tramp in the list of things in slime-setup 04:03:06 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:19 haoio 04:03:24 -!- benny [~user@i577A1A18.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:03:27 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:32 apaan 04:03:44 -!- Putri [~putri@36.73.196.62] has left #lisp 04:05:14 shai_ [~shai@2601:e:780:d:c9a:4afe:ea7f:fba8] has joined #lisp 04:06:35 I just wanna hack :( 04:06:35 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:07 -!- shai_ is now known as geothermalphysix 04:07:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:28 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-148-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:08:46 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-174-43.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:08:48 Get an axe. 04:09:17 lisp is that tool which you are referring too 04:09:19 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-166-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:09:23 to* 04:09:29 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.168.6] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 04:10:31 -!- npatrick04 [~user@adsl-98-81-162-154.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:10:41 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:46 -!- cmm 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04:27:50 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:28:16 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 04:31:09 -!- echo-are` is now known as echo-area 04:35:12 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:37:23 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:24 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:03 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:22 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:25 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:40:00 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:42:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:16 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-227-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:27 ok i have a list (X Y) where x is either NIL or T and Y is either NIL or a list itself, how do i make a list (X' Y) [that is, put a new X' in front of Y]? i cant seem to get it to end up as (NIL NIL) X=NIL and Y=NIL 04:46:21 (cons x2 (rest list)) 04:46:30 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-174-43.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:37 thats what i tried 04:47:06 (let ((list '(t nil))) (cons 4 (rest list))) => (4 nil) 04:47:28 i think (list (list X' (car (cdr ...))) works in my case :D thx 04:47:47 Elvaron: CONS is more efficient (and more clear, IMHO) 04:48:15 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:48:26 leapingfrogs [~leapingfr@c-50-161-127-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:32 X2345 [Username@188.29.96.238.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:48:52 it's probably my quirky replace-nth-from-list function that ends up messing it up for cons, but no time to fix it atm :D works > works nicely for now 04:48:59 -!- X1234 [~Username@188.29.96.238.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:10 you know (setf (nth ...) ...) works, right? 04:49:35 setf != purely functional tho, right? 04:49:46 no, but neither is replacement. 04:49:56 my replacement is non-destructive 04:50:03 well, you can just copy the list first. 04:52:37 k0001 [~k0001@host65.186-109-105.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:52:39 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:53:39 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:01 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:58:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:04:40 how can I save whats in my repl into a .lisp file? 05:05:39 are you in slime? 05:06:00 there's also 05:06:02 clhs dribble 05:06:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dribbl.htm 05:08:41 Bike, yes I'm in slime 05:08:41 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:50 (clhs dribble) 05:08:53 ? 05:09:00 check the link. 05:09:06 in emacs you can just write the buffer to a file. 05:09:16 C-x C-w 05:09:23 Bike, ahh, ok 05:12:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:14:27 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 05:14:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:23 -!- namtsui 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alezost [~user@128-70-197-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:34:13 I want to iterate over the characters in a string - how can I tell when I have reached the end? (loop for i from 0 to (1- (length my-string))) works, but I would like to know how expensive the "length" operation is. Does a string know how long it is, or does it need to scan the entire string looking for the end? (Yes, I know I can do (loop for c across...) but I want to modify the characters in-place.) 05:34:55 length on a string is cheap. use (for i from 0 below (length string) ...) 05:35:10 shifty``: strings are arrays, don't sweat a length check. 05:35:10 or (dotimes (i (length string)) ...) 05:35:50 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:10 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38:00 STilda [bca2a729@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.41] has joined #lisp 05:39:15 thank you. I gathered as much but I wanted positive confirmation. thanks also for the alternate forms. 05:39:17 Personally I'd avoid all of the above, since they won't internationalize properly. 05:39:39 I'd recommend dealing with streams instead, but you'd pay significant overhead. 05:40:21 Zhivago: quite. I'm writing a toy rot13 well aware it won't. 05:42:23 Why wouldn't you just transform a stream and use string-streams as appropriate for a toy? :) 05:42:57 when you've finished your assignment at 7a.m. and the lecture starts at 10a.m. ... it's hardly worth it going to bed 05:44:57 An hour's sleep can make a big difference. 05:45:11 Zhivago: I suppose I will have to write another version now you mention it! 05:45:56 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-27.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:46:11 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 05:46:23 at least i managed to hack in that annoying tower of hanoi thing 05:47:50 Elvaron: ask no if it's "worth" going to bed, rather ask "will I be able to get up?" 05:47:51 it's a hack job by all definitions of the term... the main function to calculate the solution for n discs, m pegs alone has like 9 lets and half a dozen helper functions 05:48:00 shifty: yea, that's the main problem 05:48:07 doesnt help when 4 hours sleep has become the regular 05:48:24 i'm too old for this *selfcensored* 05:48:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:49:03 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:49:10 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 05:49:18 the sun's already coming up -.- 05:49:28 time to finish this can of red bull and hit the hay 05:49:58 -!- leapingfrogs [~leapingfr@c-50-161-127-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:48 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:52 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:58:44 ggole [~ggole@124-148-85-179.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:00:22 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 06:00:32 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.117.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:03:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:06:10 DrCode 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10:19:09 add^_ [~user@m5-241-58-43.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:21:23 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:22:04 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:22:41 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:23:46 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:49 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 10:26:20 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:26 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 10:26:29 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:12 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:30:44 shifty``: strings are VECTORS (which are arrays) therefore you can use (loop for ch across string do ) ; 10:31:31 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.117.211] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 10:33:15 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:03 -!- harish_ [~harish@194.6.182.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:28 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 10:37:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-103.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:21 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-27.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:37:22 -!- effy [~quassel@114.246.66.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:31 pjb: but he wanted to change the characters in-place 10:37:37 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 10:37:53 the answer would then be (loop for ch across string for index from 0 do ...) 10:38:03 If it' 10:38:12 If it's very important to avoid the call to LENGTH 10:38:44 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:47 loke: how sure are you that across does not call length? 10:39:32 H4ns: I'm not, but if an implementation does not store the length of a string, I'd expect its implementation of across to take this into account. It's the best one can do, though. 10:39:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:11 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:15 -!- Yonkie [~Yonkie@ip.82.144.199.214.stat.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:42:59 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:54 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-27.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:44:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:45:56 -!- STilda [bca2a729@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:48:12 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:49:24 -!- knob5312 [~knob@173.215.135.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:52:01 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:53:07 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:53:42 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-27.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:54:13 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-27.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:54:56 I'd still recommend writing a little io transform and wrapping it in string-streams. :) 10:55:43 I shouldn't be talking about performance though. Pretty much all sting manipulation I do boils down to use of CL-PPCRE :-) 10:57:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-103.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:57:41 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:57:56 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00:23 X1234 [Username@188.29.98.67.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:03:07 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:03:34 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-cx-mapped-0001.ethz.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:04:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:05:58 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 11:08:38 -!- neufeld [~user@69-165-173-139.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 11:10:40 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11:41 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:12:33 -!- X1234 [Username@188.29.98.67.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:13:30 peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:41 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:59 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 11:18:01 |JRG| [c209f0f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.9.240.240] has joined #lisp 11:19:54 arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:20:43 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:52 harish_ [~harish@194.6.182.13] has joined #lisp 11:25:29 Is there a function to replace element at specific index or I should write one by myself? 11:25:47 s/index/position/ 11:26:02 If only there were some kind of document one could consult ... 11:26:25 clhs sequence 11:26:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_seq.htm 11:26:37 <|JRG|> element of what? a sequence? 11:26:53 <|JRG|> elt is setfable 11:26:59 setf modifies existing data. 11:27:33 That's what I'm trying to avoid as much as possible because of unpredictable results. 11:27:56 <|JRG|> you want to get a new sequence with the replaced element? 11:28:08 Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 11:28:15 Yup. 11:28:20 <|JRG|> clhs replace 11:28:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_replac.htm 11:28:45 <|JRG|> oops 11:28:53 <|JRG|> replace modifies that sequence 11:30:29 I was thinking about using SUBSEQ and CONCATENATE but that would be very ugly solution. 11:31:08 use copy-seq, not pretty, but works http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_seq.htm 11:32:26 pavelpenev: so, (setf (elt (copy-seq x) pos) new-value)? 11:32:51 well, (setf elt) return the new-value, so maybe have the copy-seq in a let 11:33:11 Ah, yeah. 11:33:37 (let ((c (copy-seq x))) (setf (elt c pos) new-value) c) or something 11:33:44 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:43 loke: I'm sorry, but I don't find in the log where shifty says that he wants to MODIFY the string. 11:36:12 pavelpenev: OK, thanks. 11:40:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:43:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:43:28 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.13, FiveAM 1.2, CL-INTERPOL 0.2.2, Drakma 1.3.6, Hunchentoot 1.2.21, CMUCL 20e, ASDF 3.0.3 11:45:18 hitecnologys: (substitute-if #\a (constantly t) sequence :start index :count 1) 11:45:45 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 11:46:03 stassats: oh, wow, that looks way better. 11:47:19 -!- guaqua``` is now known as guaqua 11:47:35 stassats: thanks. 11:47:49 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48:24 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:50:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:50:48 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 11:50:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:35 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:35 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:42 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:55:48 peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:18 Sounds a bit like you want a persistent map. 11:56:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:58:36 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 12:01:53 effy [~quassel@114.246.66.233] has joined #lisp 12:02:06 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.227.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:47 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@37.26.147.241] has joined #lisp 12:05:06 ggole: not exactly, I wanted to just replace a value by index. 12:05:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:18 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:10 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 12:08:45 hitecnologys: substitute or copy-seq will be O(n), it's a little costly. 12:08:53 You may prefer to use closures instead of vectors. 12:09:13 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:09:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:41 It does sound a little unconventional... unless they're small, I suppose. 12:10:55 (defun vector-to-v (v) (lambda (j) (aref v j))) (defun vset (v i n) (lambda (j) (if (= i j) n (funcall v j)))) (defun vget (v i) (funcall v i)) 12:11:10 If they're small, you can copy them it doesn't matter. 12:11:18 It's when they're big that you want to use closures. 12:11:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-103.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:11:49 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0010.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 12:13:28 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:37 Or you could implement them the way it's done in clojure. 12:13:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:23 As trees with a fairly wide fanout? 12:14:41 That's a reasonable way to do large persistent vectors, yeah 12:16:32 hualet_deepin [~user@122.190.65.184] has joined #lisp 12:16:34 large functional vectors. it has nothing to do with persistence. 12:17:45 That's what "persistent" means in this context. 12:19:24 No persistence doesn't mean anything in this context. 12:19:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:34 You might mean immutable, but that's an entirely different word. 12:20:37 matko [~matko@ip82-139-127-72.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:41 Persistent structures are sometimes used in that sense for data structures using constructive modification. 12:21:11 Not at all. Persistence is when the data structure is saved to non-volatile memory. 12:21:17 Anybody looking for such datas tructures for lisp should definetely check out fset http://common-lisp.net/project/fset/ 12:21:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:21:37 pjb: You've been living in a cave. :) 12:21:44 For 50 years, yes. 12:22:04 That's one of the meanings of persistence: it wasn't the one I meant. 12:22:04 -!- seangrove [~user@71-88-42-163.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:22:08 http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-854j-advanced-algorithms-fall-2005/lecture-notes/persistent.pdf might help you adapt to the outside world. 12:22:58 2005. 12:23:03 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-227.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:23:10 This is just novlang. (cf 1984). 12:25:44 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:27:17 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:38 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-31-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:29:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:38 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 12:30:40 It isn't really: it's quite clear how both technical meanings arise from the original 12:31:24 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 12:32:35 Uh, MOP is a dense subject. 12:34:10 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:38 alezost` [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:34:55 -!- alezost` [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:01 sohail [~sohail@69-165-161-49.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:08 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-165-161-49.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:35:08 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 12:35:14 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:35:57 alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:38:31 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:28 I have an idea tho until I can grasp MOP. I'll use method combination with `initialize-instance'. Basically, I'll use primary methods to instantiate foreign objects and `:after' methods to set its properties. 12:40:48 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 12:40:51 hi 12:45:08 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@37.26.147.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:02 *didi* makes a mental note to try FiveAM 12:51:03 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:55:43 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:56:11 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:59:41 Hi Denommus. 13:00:07 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:01:06 pjb: I'm terribly sorry, I was afk because of certain circumstances. Yeah, that's a bit costly. I use vectors because I work with database, that's the reason. 13:07:45 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:08:10 -!- Guest60296 is now known as xristos 13:08:56 pjb: converting them to function is pointless because postmodern requires vectors as input data for arrays and I'm not quite ready to change postmodern in order to save a few iterations. 13:09:56 What's pointless is to avoid mutability. 13:11:11 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:14:17 Gooder [~user@125.37.180.90] has joined #lisp 13:14:36 Oh, this is great. It's working. I feel that I'm typing more that I could, but hey, that's fine for now. 13:15:53 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:27 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 13:17:23 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:19:08 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:20:16 pjb: why? 13:20:29 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:52 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p578FC5F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:00 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-27.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:31 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:21:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:53 hitecnologys: My personav view is that the evil part of 'shared mutable state' is the shared part. If a data structure gets mutated in the woods and nobody sees it, it's fine :) 13:22:54 It's all about side-effect propagation. 13:24:06 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:18 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-143-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-103.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:25:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:26 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:25:35 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:32 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815b02.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:45 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 13:30:31 pavelpenev: yeah, that sounds reasonable. 13:31:12 -!- Elvaron [~Elvaron@HSI-KBW-134-3-240-90.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:31:38 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 `fogus 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15:16:00 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:46 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:15 has anyone tried any of these eclipse-based Lisp connections, like CUSP or Dandelion? 15:23:06 besides their respective authors, I doubt 15:31:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:33:36 -!- harish_ [~harish@194.6.182.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:38:29 marko-v [~user@cable-24-135-64-52.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:38:29 -!- marko-v [~user@cable-24-135-64-52.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Changing host] 15:38:29 marko-v [~user@unaffiliated/marko-v] has joined #lisp 15:39:56 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:42 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:15 -!- Denommus 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[~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:05:04 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:41 -!- marko-v [~user@unaffiliated/marko-v] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:40 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 16:13:38 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:14:34 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:27 jordonbiondo [~user@35.40.127.160] has joined #lisp 16:19:41 when using run-program, is there a way to use the the environment PATH information so that rather than writing (run-program "/bin/echo" '("hi")) you can write (run-program "echo" '("hi"))? 16:19:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:20:34 jordonbiondo: :search T 16:20:43 at least for sbcl, that is 16:21:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:40 (run-program "/bin/bash" '("-c" "echo" "hi")) 16:21:40 flip214: ._. I can't believe I didn't see that, right in the docs... 16:21:44 flip214: thanks! 16:22:06 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:39 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:24:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:28 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:47 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 16:25:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:22 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 16:26:57 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:26 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:36 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 16:29:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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18:37:37 Is there a way to suppress the hunchentoot output for when requests are made? 18:37:55 it prints out the headers to my sbcl instance (in emacs with slime I'm never shown this output) 18:38:27 Its pretty much the web request log data that apache for instance would put in a /var/log/httpd/example.com file 18:38:31 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:51 scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:42 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 18:41:51 ahungry: override acceptor-log-message 18:41:59 and acceptor-log-access 18:42:41 hi 18:43:01 stassats: :) I need help with QFileDialog ;) 18:43:02 or if you want to put into a file, change acceptor-access-log-destination 18:43:21 Posterdati: you need to build a special sbcl for it to work on sbcl 18:43:41 Thanks stassats 18:43:42 unless you're on windows 18:43:51 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-116-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:54 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:57 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-bqqtiwwerkquyxbd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:06 i shall add a FAQ section about that 18:47:14 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:03 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:19 chris_l [~quassel@p5091E019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:25 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:55 Posterdati: http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/#known-issues 19:01:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:58 stassats: I'm on linux 19:05:08 with sbcl 19:06:51 pt [~pt@chello084114135093.15.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:06:51 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:07:01 What part of slime provides the pop up tooltips showing the documentation on a typed out function name? the ac-slime package? 19:07:51 askatasuna [~askatasun@host238.190-229-170.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE645F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:12:42 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-21-15.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:45 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 hiroakip [~hiroaki@93.198.31.31] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 ubolonton [~user@117.5.47.139] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 effy [~quassel@111.197.234.113] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d829.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 luis [~luis@kerno.org] has joined 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19:26:11 I've written some macro's but nothing advanced, now I'm trying to make a macro which will generate several defclass/defmethod forms without much luck, any suggestions or pointers to similar types of macros? Here's what I've done so far http://paste.lisp.org/display/139723 19:28:40 pegu: for deftables you need to collect the forms. 19:28:54 pegu: ` has no side effects, basically. 19:29:29 instead of creating multitudes of methods you could use inheritance 19:30:08 and SELF is not the greatest name 19:30:44 Bike: thanks, should I wrap another progn around it to collect the forms? 19:30:57 you want to expand into a progn, yes 19:32:29 also stassats has got a point. 19:34:33 stassats: they do inherit other some other class, each of the generated classes will attach itself to some database table 19:34:50 pegu: the point is that you only need one method on the parent of all these classes. 19:35:28 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:08 Bike: yes, I guees I could to without the method declaration and keep that in the parent class, but I need to generate all the defclass forms 19:36:38 -!- bloody_beginner [~rf@p5485586B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:37:20 Bike,stassats: thank you for your suggestions, I will try to experiment a bit and read the macro chapter of OnLisp again (it's been a while...) 19:37:47 it's not hard, just remember that you don't usually care about what a macro does, only its return value 19:37:56 a macro function, i mean 19:39:03 Bike: Yes, I'm aware, the deftable macro seem to work, the problem is with the deftables which expands to nil.... 19:40:56 -!- pt [~pt@chello084114135093.15.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:41:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:23 cory786 [~cory@PAT99.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 19:43:00 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-58-43.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:48:21 pegu: chls dolist 19:48:31 clhs dolist 19:48:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_dolist.htm 19:48:31 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:48:38 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 19:49:20 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@93.198.31.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:49:22 pegu: note what dolist returns 19:50:24 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-116-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:50:49 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:08 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:52:28 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 19:53:48 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-112-222.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:50 samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:09 fe[n]ix: the only reason I asked about CUSP and Dandelion is we have some students using our (Allegro CL based) system, 19:54:22 for a course at the TU Delft, 19:54:36 and they come into the class having been trained in "programming" with Python and Eclipse 19:54:40 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:54:47 so they complain that they are asked to switch environments 19:55:02 to something which appears to some of them at first glance to be old-fashioned 19:56:28 i don't think there's much hope for providing them a non-emacs based environment 19:56:39 (although they could go ahead and use the Allegro IDE, which is more Windows-like) 19:57:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:46 -!- harish_ [~harish@194.6.182.13] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:57:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:33 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:01:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:07 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 20:03:13 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:38 Is there a better way to get a single value from a hash than (loop for x being the hash-value of h return x)? 20:04:39 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-116-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:00 To be clear, I don't care *which* value is returned, so long as it is in the hash 20:05:34 -!- jvns [~quassel@74.212.183.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:06:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:07:50 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-85-179.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:09:42 Denommus` [~user@179.222.41.36] has joined #lisp 20:10:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:11:17 add^_ [~user@m5-241-58-43.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:13:31 HG` [~HG@213.5.69.8] has joined #lisp 20:13:35 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:14:39 -!- Denommus` [~user@179.222.41.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:57 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:16:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:20:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:16 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 20:22:44 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 20:23:52 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 20:25:39 -!- tylergoza [~quassel@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:15 -!- mgile [~mgile@216-98-195-98.static.forethought.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 20:31:45 -!- cory786 [~cory@PAT99.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:14 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:58 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:37:25 tylergoza [~quassel@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:56 sunwukong [~androirc@78.139.2.103] has joined #lisp 20:38:59 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-58-43.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:39:45 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:40:56 add^_ [~user@m5-241-58-43.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:41:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.224.236.10.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:43:00 Is there a portable way to get the argument list of a function? 20:43:13 no 20:43:40 function-lambda-expression may show something of value, but it rarely happens 20:43:45 k 20:44:05 I'll just use a macro to define all the functions that I need it for, and save it in a lookup table 20:44:31 -!- samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1] 20:45:54 swank-backend:ARGLIST 20:46:05 jasom: Well, SWANK has a way to get it for most lisps. 20:46:05 jasom: There you go. 20:46:10 METABANG.MOPTILITIES:FUNCTION-ARGLIST 20:46:22 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:45 There are two I found; there are probably more, it seems to be something that gets (re)written a lot. 20:46:47 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 jvns [~quassel@74.212.183.186] has joined #lisp 20:47:24 you can't depend on them for anything except introspection 20:48:15 stassats: What do you mean by that? IE, what cant you depend on them for? 20:48:15 This is for a stack-based language interpreter; it needs to know the arity of the function so it knows how many arguments to pop, so it needs to be more reliable than introspection 20:49:05 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:15 harish [~harish@194.6.182.13] has joined #lisp 20:49:59 hi 20:50:46 -!- chris_l [~quassel@p5091E019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:13 hmm, can you make a macro that returns 2 forms? 20:51:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:21 no 20:51:22 e.g. for making 2 toplevel forms 20:51:30 jasom: (progn ) 20:51:32 you can return only one value 20:52:57 sellout-: (sb-introspect:function-arglist (lambda (a b c) (declare (optimize (debug 0))))) => NIL 20:53:08 if a progn is toplevel than its subforms are toplevel. 20:54:27 pt [~pt@chello084114135093.15.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:54:36 stassats: Ah, ok. 20:56:02 on ABCL, (swank-backend:arglist (lambda (a b c))) => :NOT-AVAILABLE 20:56:26 and moptilities only has definitions for digitool openmcl lispworks allegro sbcl cmu 20:56:55 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:58:04 and on ECL: (swank-backend:arglist (compile 'foo)) => :NOT-AVAILABLE 20:58:19 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:58:42 platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:42 -!- platypine [platypine@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:58:43 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 20:59:36 -!- Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:55 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:03:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/139725 <-- that should work everywhere 21:03:47 I need to look up the lisp function name from a postscript keyword anyway so kill 2 birds with one stone 21:03:49 as long as arglist doesn't have any keywords, i guess. 21:03:53 what about variable number of arguments? 21:04:00 stassats: not supported 21:04:10 what about (setf (fdefinition x) y)? 21:04:26 I don't care about &optional &rest &key 21:04:50 stassats: I don't export the symbols for these functions from this package, so if you do that, have fun :) 21:04:57 what about &aux? 21:05:04 or &aux 21:05:24 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 21:05:39 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:01 I have ~90 functions that this needs to work for and nothing else 21:06:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:46 can you then define them as (defun foo (stack) (let ((a (pop stack)) (b (pop stack))) ...)? 21:07:37 I could if I rewrote my code so that it never called between them; this is a quick-and-dirty port of some python code 21:07:51 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:08:37 (defun foo-stack (stack) (declare (inline foo)) (foo (pop stack) (pop stack))) then 21:09:08 that works 21:14:01 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:14:12 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 -!- ludocode [~quassel@206-248-158-213.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:15:24 -!- sunwukong [~androirc@78.139.2.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:32 antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 21:15:56 -!- antonv is now known as Guest15248 21:16:14 -!- Guest15248 [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:56 scmaccal [~user@cpe-142-105-192-117.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:05 -!- scmaccal [~user@cpe-142-105-192-117.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:42 edgar-rft 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[~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:54 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:24 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:52 malbertife [~malbertif@host33-59-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:49:06 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.55.210] has joined #lisp 21:50:11 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:29 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-58-43.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:53:47 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:55:24 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@78.171.69.20] has joined #lisp 21:56:15 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:56:38 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 mgile [~mgile@216-98-195-98.static.forethought.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:16 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has joined #lisp 21:59:03 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:59:36 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@1.129.243.47] has joined #lisp 22:00:59 Zach: herep 22:01:37 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:40 -!- HG` [~HG@213.5.69.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.55.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:03:46 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:04:54 -!- prip [~foo@host213-127-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:06:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.102.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:07 Stendhal [~Deep@cri75-4-78-192-205-120.fbxo.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:12 hello 22:07:26 someone can advice me a website to learn lisp ? 22:07:43 minion: tell Stendhal about pcl 22:07:43 Stendhal: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:08:34 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:08:46 minion tell me about books 22:09:01 minion: how are you ? 22:09:01 it's going quite fine today 22:09:19 minion: are you written in lisp ? 22:09:19 i'm written in common lisp 22:09:27 minion : what do you like ? 22:09:41 minion: what do you like ? 22:09:42 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 40 seconds is too many. 22:10:12 Bike do you know another book ? or is it the only one ? 22:10:18 minion: gentle 22:10:18 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 22:10:35 i wonder if minion has a list. 22:10:37 minion: books? 22:10:37 books: Lisp Books: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Books 22:10:44 good enough. 22:11:02 Stendhal: http://cliki.net/ is good. 22:14:26 antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 22:15:32 karswell [~user@87.114.85.91] has joined #lisp 22:16:56 -!- gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:29 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.239] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 22:18:18 prip [~foo@host26-133-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:18:33 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:14 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:19:56 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@host33-59-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:20:00 -!- matko 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