00:02:42 -!- Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.] 00:03:37 -!- xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:55 nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bouedntapukwsaos] has joined #lisp 00:09:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:16:08 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 00:21:27 hello 00:23:19 -!- JulianGindi [~JulianGin@50-198-150-254-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 00:30:40 JulianGindi [~JulianGin@c-69-251-73-33.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:47 namtsui` [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:55 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:37:48 Denommus [~Denommus@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:38:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:39:05 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:39 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:48:36 -!- JulianGindi [~JulianGin@c-69-251-73-33.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:49:29 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host165.190-229-214.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:49:33 hello 00:51:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:24 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:07 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-fnmajiuaanukmfis] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:37 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 01:00:32 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:36 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:39 seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has joined #lisp 01:13:06 Guest94085 [~xx@cust-222-49-109-94.dyn.as47377.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:58 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:17:12 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-222-21.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:08 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-222-21.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:11 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-222-21.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:24:45 sellout- [~Adium@75-166-120-47.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:47 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:08 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:25:44 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9E6FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:34 -!- seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has quit [Quit: adios amigos] 01:30:50 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:59 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:39:20 zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:26 Guest47350 [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:04 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:47:12 patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:04 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-86-218.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:48:17 Good morning everyone! 01:49:26 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:50:03 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:51:06 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:05 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:57:04 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-166-120-47.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:38 sellout- [~Adium@184-96-140-107.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:26 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:11:28 ASau` [~user@p5083DB57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:43 -!- ASau [~user@p5083DF2D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:27 -!- Guest94085 [~xx@cust-222-49-109-94.dyn.as47377.net] has quit [] 02:17:12 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:59 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:18:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:20:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:52 -!- jvns [~quassel@74.212.183.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:26:39 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:15 -!- Denommus [~Denommus@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:40:10 sup beach 02:46:13 axs__ [~quassel@41.200.140.187] has joined #lisp 02:47:01 -!- axs [~quassel@41.200.129.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:49:13 theos: Oh, same old, same old. What about you? Did you find the statistics libraries in CL you were looking for? 02:49:44 biblesomethingst [~Cobra@93-46-81-204.ip106.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 02:49:47 https://www.facebook.com/sadbiblestory 02:49:50 -!- biblesomethingst [~Cobra@93-46-81-204.ip106.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 02:51:22 -!- nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bouedntapukwsaos] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:54:25 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:58 beach i am fine. i put that aside for now. :) 03:02:20 Oh. Too bad. I thought you would start a project to implement such a library. That would be a good thing (unless it already exists). 03:03:33 -!- benny [~user@i577A81F0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:07:31 leo2007 [~leo@222.131.222.71] has joined #lisp 03:07:35 seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has joined #lisp 03:09:57 jvns [~quassel@cpe-72-227-135-207.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:46 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 03:11:46 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:13 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:16 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:43 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:16:43 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:04 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Myk267] 03:17:33 cmm 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[~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:01:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:08:27 leo2007 [~leo@221.219.17.48] has joined #lisp 06:13:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:13:50 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 06:14:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 06:15:02 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 06:19:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:19:56 ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:07 zhodge [~zach@ip68-8-193-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:31 working on a function to return every item in a list except for the last (for reference: https://gist.github.com/qcom/7165866) 06:21:36 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:39 (pop '(a b c d)) returns ((a . b) . c) 06:21:52 I'm a little fuzzy on "dotted pair representation" (is that correct?) 06:22:03 is the return value equal to the list '(a b c)? 06:22:17 no 06:22:24 because it doesn't seem as though I can feed that return value to a function that expects a list 06:22:26 yeah okay 06:22:32 you want #scheme. and you want to call list rather than cons, probably. 06:22:46 I tried #scheme :) 06:22:57 I was going to mention that this was done in scheme 06:22:59 how did you know? 06:23:05 the ".scm" helps 06:23:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:23:14 '(a b c) is '(a . (b . (c . ()))) 06:23:15 ah, figured you didn't open the link 06:23:17 silly me 06:23:51 a linked list, y'know. 06:23:54 so my output is garbage then right? 06:24:01 yeah, what you wrote makes sense 06:24:29 well you're obviously on some kind of right track, you have all the elements and even in the right order (visually, if not data-ly). now you just need to unfuck a bit. 06:25:17 haha, let me try and make this a little less fucky 06:26:25 Actually, the problem with your approach is that you're accumulating the elements in the wrong order for a list. 06:27:43 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:29:21 yes indeed 06:30:14 kcj_ [~casey@118-93-67-128.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:30:57 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 06:31:03 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:36 christ, I'm no good at this recursion thing lol 06:32:29 Well, how would you write it iteratively? 06:33:44 prxq [~mommer@x2f6cfac.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 06:34:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:34:48 -!- seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:49 -!- kcj_ [~casey@118-93-67-128.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:00 answer = []; lis = [1,2,3]; l = lis.length; for (var i = 0; i < l; i++) if (i != l - 1) answer.push(lis[i]); 06:35:04 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:35:43 Doesn't that accumulate the list backwards, so you'd get [2,1]? 06:36:18 no I think it's good, right? 06:36:26 push appends to the end of an array 06:36:33 I don't know what language this is. 06:36:40 tried to keep it as generic as possible 06:36:40 If that's the case, it works, but it takes quadratic time. 06:36:52 well, common lisp push puts it on the front, see. 06:37:13 I like this: lis.filter( (el, i) -> i != lis.length - 1 ) 06:37:25 or lis[0..lis.length] 06:37:25 lol 06:37:41 zhodge: I like this: (butlast list) 06:37:57 zhodge: write filter instead, then. 06:38:33 beach: but it's fun trying to write functions! 06:38:58 especially in a new paradigm 06:39:05 despite my seeming attachment to imperative/filter style 06:39:18 they're pretty different "styles". 06:39:36 definitely 06:40:41 anyway, you can translate that for loop into scheme pretty easily. 06:40:54 just write a function that takes the state of the for loop as arguments, and have it call itself with the next state. 06:41:37 yeah that does sound simple 06:41:58 Of course you won't use "push". 06:42:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:43:23 which leaves me with a similar problem to what I started with right? 06:43:29 since I did have the order correct 06:43:53 Yes, now you have the problem isolated, you need to figure out how to accumulate the elements correctly. 06:44:02 that is, my printing order was correct 06:44:08 my build order was not 06:44:58 So, try writing "push" in isolation. A function that takes a list foo..bar, and an element baz, and returns foo..bar,baz. 06:46:11 is it not correct to simply use cons? 06:46:17 I know that's what gave me my original problem 06:46:22 cons is fine 06:46:24 but that could have been because of the recursion, no? 06:46:31 more like, it was because of the recursion 06:46:33 zhodge: does cons fit the description i gave you? 06:46:37 yeah 06:46:41 Wrong. 06:47:00 if this thing is "foo", then (foo (list 1 2 3) 4) should be the same as (list 1 2 3 4). 06:47:06 alright, let me think 06:47:06 cons fits naturally into a (non-tail) recursive definition of butlast 06:47:16 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:47:39 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:48:28 unfortunately I must be going for now 06:48:35 Bike: I hope you're here when I come back! 06:48:38 thanks a lot for the help 06:48:44 I hope it wasn't too painful 06:48:56 you get used to it. :) 06:49:03 so that's a yes? haha 06:52:52 -!- namtsui` [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:24 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:10 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-222-21.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:22 -!- areckx [~areckx@c-50-161-42-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:01:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.219.17.48] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 07:02:06 leo2007 [~leo@221.219.17.48] has joined #lisp 07:02:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.219.17.48] has quit [Client Quit] 07:03:20 leo2007 [~leo@221.219.17.48] has joined #lisp 07:10:00 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@76-10-140-246.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:11:59 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 07:13:55 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:12 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:37 -!- patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 07:32:45 -!- igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-119-29.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:34:51 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-222-21.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:38:59 clmsy [~clmsy@178.233.22.39] has joined #lisp 07:45:35 -!- zhodge [~zach@ip68-8-193-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: zhodge] 07:51:31 |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-136-79.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:56:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:01:23 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:09:07 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:18:16 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:20:42 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 08:20:59 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:24:12 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:27:55 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:21 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:31 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:30:55 sword [~sword@c-24-21-33-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:08 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 08:42:17 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.103.184] has joined #lisp 08:47:13 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:47:14 fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.181] has joined #lisp 08:47:41 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:48:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:49:51 -!- fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.181] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:57:25 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-246-31.w90-17.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:57:39 paines [~paines@ip-37-201-106-168.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:44 hi 08:58:09 xan_ [~xan@80.224.236.81.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:36 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 09:03:38 -!- eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:03:51 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has joined #lisp 09:03:57 STilda [~STilda@188.162.167.3] has joined #lisp 09:04:58 I am using emacs+slime for my lisp hacking. My app uses some data which only can be found when I start emacs from within the project directory. How can I load data files relatively to the location of the .lisp file I compiled and executed code from? 09:05:47 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 09:06:43 Because when I start emacs via icon click and then open my file via C-M-f and start hacking on it and compile it, the data files cannot be found, unless I would provide the full path to it/them. 09:09:48 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-120-66.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:35 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.167.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:22:06 josemanuel [~josemanue@80.30.112.189] has joined #lisp 09:23:40 STilda [~STilda@188.162.167.3] has joined #lisp 09:24:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:30:32 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-246-31.w90-17.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:30:35 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.167.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:41:46 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@80.30.112.189] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 09:47:33 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:48:15 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96629.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:49:00 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-199-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:21 alezost [~user@128-70-199-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:50:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:50:41 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 10:00:08 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC96629.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:42 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 10:14:59 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:52 nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-walgbfqtzulaqvbu] has joined #lisp 10:35:08 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:21 iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #lisp 10:41:22 -!- CrazyEddy [~religiona@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:03 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.103.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:15 -!- sdemarre [~serge@195.127-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:49:40 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.222] has joined #lisp 10:54:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:49 -!- marsam [~marsam@162.243.38.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:04 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9CF04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:25 marsam [~marsam@162.243.38.157] has joined #lisp 11:00:44 -!- chturne [~chturne@host81-157-142-71.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:17 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:01:44 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-170-225.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.219.17.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:05 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 11:18:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:23:28 -!- add^_ [~user@m83-185-23-90.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:25:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-46-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:40:11 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.227.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:40:45 -!- nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-walgbfqtzulaqvbu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:43:10 CrazyEddy [~cesarolit@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:45:15 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 11:54:27 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 11:55:21 antgreen [~green@64.56.227.60] has joined #lisp 12:01:18 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@178.233.22.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:20 clmsy [~clmsy@178.233.22.39] has joined #lisp 12:05:53 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:07:48 cyc0 [~cyco@marilou.fep.upatras.gr] has joined #lisp 12:13:25 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:15:20 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 12:22:06 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 Is it good or bad that I use :: syntax to access certain symbols from my tests instead of exporting them? 12:27:09 Neither. 12:27:30 So, it's OK? 12:27:41 What you could do, is to define another package that would export the symbols for the test module. 12:28:01 Hm, that sounds like a good idea. 12:28:19 hitecnologys: you could also just import all symbols of the package under test into the test package. 12:28:23 I'll try that, thanks pjb. 12:28:34 hitecnologys: that way, you'd not have the extra burden of maintaining a test package. 12:29:22 H4ns: oh, I thought import only imports if symbol is exported. 12:29:29 (defpackage :public-api (:export :f)) (defpackage :implementation (:use :cl)) (defpackage :for-test (:import-from :implementation :f :internal-to-be-tested) (:export :f :internal-to-be-tested)) (defpackage :test-implementation (:use :cl :for-test)) 12:29:32 hitecnologys: not at all. 12:29:41 pjb: right. lots of useless code. 12:29:56 (defpackage :public-api (:export :f) (:import-from :implementation :f)) 12:30:17 Well, for big systems with a lot of programmers, it may be worth it. 12:30:26 pjb: haha. 12:30:46 Let's say we gather all the lispers of the world, and start working on real AI. 12:30:55 H4ns: wow, that's great. That import thing is what I always needed. 12:31:30 pjb: that would be great, but... 12:39:46 pjb: so, why do you think it may be worth it? 12:40:01 sirdancealo3 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has joined #lisp 12:40:38 It lets you define formally modules and internal APIs, and different APIs for different internal modules. 12:40:49 If you do that of course, you forbid :: 12:40:53 chris_l [~quassel@p5091E4BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:29 Like in ASDF? (asdf/package, asdf/system etc.) 12:42:58 yes. 12:43:07 I see. 12:43:21 There are several levels of abstraction and encapsulation. 12:43:49 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@178.233.22.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:50 The function is one level: it has local variables that are encapsulated and it abstracts away all the internal algorithms behind a name and a signature (lambda list, parameters). 12:44:05 CLOS objects with a set of methods would be the next level. 12:44:18 Packages do the same at yet another level. 12:44:58 Is there anything higher than packages expect ASDF systems? 12:45:08 asdf/xxx is the most annoying thing 12:45:19 But then when you have big systems, you may have a lot of packages. You need to structure them at yet another level of modules, and a set of modules may make components, and a set of components may make a set of subsystems, and a set of systems may make an application. 12:45:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:36 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.227.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:36 clmsy [~clmsy@178.233.22.39] has joined #lisp 12:45:40 stassats: that's internal stuff. It's abstracted away by the asdf package. 12:45:46 stassats: why do you think so? 12:46:00 hitecnologys: because it annoys me when i try to use it 12:46:30 At each level, you have internals, encapsulation therefore, abstraction and public APIs. 12:46:36 auto-completion became simply useless 12:46:52 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 12:47:11 stassats: yeah, sometimes I have troubles remembering in which package certain function is too. 12:47:25 (apropos "FUN") 12:47:39 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:48:12 s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:55 -!- cyc0 [~cyco@marilou.fep.upatras.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:18 nipra [~nipra@122.177.44.38] has joined #lisp 13:03:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:11 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:56 antgreen [~green@64.56.227.60] has joined #lisp 13:07:52 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08:41 tobel [~user@p4FFF3D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:13 Ah damn, I need help again. The problem is that I'm idiot and I made a serious mistake a long time ago: I wrote code that relies on running some random code before compilation stage. So I made this quick and dirty fix: https://github.com/HiTECNOLOGYs/CL-Twilightandia/blob/master/packages.lisp#L128, but I don't think it's a good way to do it. How do I properly run code before system compilation? 13:14:28 -!- tobel [~user@p4FFF3D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:14:49 I tried specializing method for asdf:compile-op but that didn't work. 13:15:08 jvns [~quassel@cpe-72-227-135-207.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:45 hitecnologys: IIRC there are clauses like :in-order-to in asdf to specify things to do, in order to compile, load, etc. 13:16:59 :in-order-to ((compile-op (load-op :system-that-does-the-thing-that-needs-to-be-done))) 13:17:41 What if I need to call some function, not load the system? 13:18:03 Put a (function-call) on the toplevel of the file loaded by the system. 13:18:38 That sounds like ever dirtier hack. 13:18:47 It's the lispy way. 13:19:04 Hm, OK. Thanks. 13:19:35 well, ok, instead of the toplevel function call, you can add: 13:20:03 :perform (compile-op (o c) (symbol-call :my-system-test :test-suite)) in asdf. 13:20:09 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:20:26 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html 13:20:36 I see. 13:21:41 err, perhaps it's not good. Read the doc, but perhaps :perform replaces the normal compilation; the example was for test-op. 13:22:23 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:28 Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:58 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:23:23 I think I'd better remove compile time dependency. 13:23:26 arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:23:55 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:16 All depdencencies are compilation time too, because of the macros. 13:24:40 The simpliest is just to call the function in a script file you add at the end of the system. 13:24:47 No, my dependency is calling a function that doesn' 13:24:50 Damn. 13:24:55 that doesn't exist. 13:25:02 If you want it clean, make two systems: one to load the thing, and another that depends on it , and calls the function. 13:25:13 So you can choose between loading and loading+activatnig. 13:25:50 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:26:37 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:27:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:28:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:28:59 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:13 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:29:17 This problem with this function call comes from Providing, actually. I should rewrite it first. 13:34:19 -!- Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:34:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:33 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:37:08 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:59 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:52 sohail_ [~sohail@76-10-140-246.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:13 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@76-10-140-246.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:46:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:50:13 arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:52:55 -!- arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:08 jangle [~jimmy1984@c-69-255-124-145.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:45 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:43 -!- arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:36 arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:58:29 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:58:55 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-122-143.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:55 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@c-69-255-124-145.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 14:06:13 theos: Thanks for mentioning your solution to the commonqt installation problem somewhere under Google's beady eye (http://ircbrowse.net/browse/lisp?id=8107697×tamp=1373958775#t1373958775 )  got it running thanks to that! 14:07:13 -!- jvns [~quassel@cpe-72-227-135-207.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:07:40 iwilcox always there to help! :D 14:08:02 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 14:08:13 iwilcox: that means that sudo apt-get install libqt4-dev libsmokeqtgui4-3 is not enough anymore? 14:08:31 Wasn't for me, stassats. Definitely needed libsmokeqt4-dev. 14:08:43 ok, i'll add it then 14:08:46 (which wasn't dragged in as a dependency) 14:09:54 stassats: It's not clear what the ominous italic statement "This needs to be updated." applies to on that page (I guess we're talking about http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ ?) 14:10:45 iwilcox: to "Qt 4.6.2" and " Visual Studio 2008" 14:11:25 'k. I'd assumed it could mean the whole Dependencies section was out of date. 14:11:37 added libsmokeqt4-dev to the list 14:11:55 i'll also add a line on what to do when loading fails 14:12:16 Excellent. Would it help if I pastebin the exact error I got for you? 14:12:27 ok, it's already there 14:12:34 " Run qmake followed by make yourself for troubleshooting. " 14:12:42 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:16 I had no idea what that meant  where was I meant to run qmake? Had a poke around the whole quicklisp install tree, didn't find anywhere that seemed suitable. 14:13:17 iwilcox: it wouldn't, it would just reinforce my prejiduce towards ASDF for being able to produce incomprehensible errors 14:13:44 iwilcox: in the source directory, naturally 14:14:48 You mean quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/commonqt-20131003-git/ ? 14:15:17 if that's the source directory, yes 14:15:18 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:15:28 i'll add a line on how to find it using asdf 14:15:32 Perhaps I'm not your typical user, since I'm completely new to both Lisp and commonqt. (But not to Qt/qmake/makefiles/Linux.) 14:16:50 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:16:50 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #lisp 14:16:51 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:47 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 14:19:27 ale4L3 [~ale@93.37.131.85] has joined #lisp 14:20:01 kqrx` [~user@167.220.24.4] has joined #lisp 14:21:32 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:21:56 iwilcox: how about now: http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/#id105941 ? 14:23:41 -!- kqrx [~user@167.220.26.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:24:17 Heh, (asdf/system:system-source-directory 'qt) fails for me. I can paste the error but I'm afraid it's greek to me. The important bit seems to be "The name "ASDF/SYSTEM" does not designate any package." 14:24:35 normanrichards [~normanric@AUSTTXHODS0AE13.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:18 Perhaps it would work if I'd just encountered the libcommonqt problem though. 14:25:44 scratch /system part 14:25:58 Yeah, works without that. 14:25:59 (did i already tell everyone today that i hate asdf/xxx packages?) 14:26:28 and updated http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/#id105851 14:26:56 Cool, I feel like something was achieved, even if my part in achieving it was miniscule :) 14:27:16 i would accept package names for red hat/fedora/suse as gifts 14:27:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28:42 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 14:29:16 and i should get rid of those pesky "id105851" anchors 14:29:36 it was probably created with some html-bastardizing tool 14:29:46 foreignFunction 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przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:36 nipra [~nipra@122.177.44.38] has joined #lisp 18:41:08 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:41 okay so 1 "issue" been boggling around in my head 18:42:28 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:42:41 easily i can create a 1 to N parameter function by having 1 parameter that is an atom or a list, and eat the list until i get an atom. however, if there any way to have 0 or 1 parameters ? ? 18:43:47 notori0us [~irc@osuosc/notori0us] has joined #lisp 18:43:52 WHAT 18:44:18 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 18:44:22 Hi #lisp, is there any way to get back a CLISP built-in function once you've defun'd over it? 18:44:46 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.213.49] has left #lisp 18:44:58 for instance, (exit) has been redefined. 18:45:23 find the source of the original EXIT and evaluate it? 18:45:31 <|JRG|> rk[U-26C4]: &OPTIONAL, but not sure I really got your question 18:45:53 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-86-218.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:46:03 <|JRG|> (defun foo (&optional optional-argument) ...) 18:46:24 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 18:47:12 hi, I don't understand how and when macros are processed. define-symbol-macro in one lisp implementation works ok (by accident I guess) and in another, a compiler first finds a reference to the symbol and complains about unbound variable. similarly, with defmacro - in one lisp it works fine, in another compiler thinks it is a function call. 18:47:14 |JRG|: thank you much. what is the convention for using &; does & have a meaning in CL 18:48:09 It's part of the symbol "&optional" 18:48:10 |JRG|: also, what is the common way to test if the argument was supplied (eq 'nil optional-argument) ? 18:49:47 puchacz: if a macro isn't recognized as such, then it wasn't known at the time it was used 18:50:08 An optional arg can be associated with a symbol which is bound to whether the argument was supplied 18:50:24 (defun test (&optional (foo nil foo-supplied-p)) ...) 18:50:48 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:51:01 hmm 18:51:09 <|JRG|> clhs lambda-list 18:51:09 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for lambda-list. 18:51:13 well, (eq 'nil op-arg) worked for me. 18:51:18 cmm: true, and it is exactly what I am asking about; how it is processed and how to control it. seems too easy to write code that works by accident 18:51:23 what ggole said applies if you need to distinguish a supplied nil vs nothing supplied, but if not you can just use a regular conditional, e.g. (when optional-argument ...) 18:51:28 <|JRG|> clhs lambda list 18:51:36 That doesn't let you tell whether the argument was passed with a value of nil or not 18:51:40 puchacz, package issues? 18:51:44 (Which you may or may not care about, of course.) 18:51:52 Fare: same package 18:52:02 notori0us, use packages to avoid havoc 18:52:41 Fare: usually, yes I would. This is more of an edge case haha 18:52:44 notori0us, doesn't clisp have package locks to avoid this issu? 18:52:48 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-dcievtxdrkbhronk] has joined #lisp 18:53:06 <|JRG|> rk[U-26C4]: (when (eq 'nil op-arg) ...) == (when op-arg ...) but, as ggole pointed out, you may very well have passed nil 18:53:32 the hard way, you can use cffi to peek into the implementation, or to call C's exit 18:53:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:47 or if you don't care about exit status, kill -9 18:54:01 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 18:54:17 <|JRG|> clhs supplied-p 18:54:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for supplied-p. 18:54:22 <|JRG|> wth 18:54:25 puchacz, do you have a paste? 18:54:37 |JRG| that's (when (not op-arg) ...) 18:54:51 <|JRG|> rk[U-26C4]: browse the clhs for supplied-p parameters 18:54:56 *Fare* tried gcl the other day... it actually compiles! But is still buggy as hell. 18:55:03 <|JRG|> Vivitron: yes 'course my bad 18:55:03 Fare: too long, I am trying to make rather large piece of code (ucw framework) work in lispworks. 18:55:16 <|JRG|> or unless that is 18:55:31 I am reading PCL chapt 20 btw 18:55:31 and puchacz if we can't reproduce, we can't debug 18:56:05 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.48.91] has joined #lisp 18:56:21 Fare, I will isolate issue if I don't grok eval-when and friends. but still, to reproduce, you would have to use lispworks personal 18:56:24 <|JRG|> (defun foo (&optional (arg default-value supplied?))) 18:57:51 <|JRG|> default-value will be bound to arg if foo is passed no value, and supplied? will be either T or NIL 18:58:22 puchacz: from your first comment it sounded like you were trying to forward reference macros and symbol macros. I don't think you can do that 19:00:11 Vivitron: no, files are enumerated in system definition in the right order. I think something funny is happening around NOT compiling macros into the code in lispworks; as I have never understood what eval-when is about, it may be a clue that something unportable is happening there. this code works in sbcl btw 19:00:22 Vivitron: you can in a naive interpreter 19:01:17 lispworks clearly thinks that (bla-bla ...) is a function call, not macro, and bla-bla-2 is a variable, not symbol macro. 19:01:34 probably something not 100% compliant but you can get away with in sbcl 19:02:39 puchacz: you are pretty obviously getting something very simple very wrong 19:02:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-064-228.mycingular.net] has quit [] 19:03:07 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-99-84.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:03:15 Fare: the package locks can be opened XD 19:03:27 cmm, Vivitron, trying to understand this now: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/the-special-operators.html (eval-when section) 19:03:29 puchacz, can you produce a reduced example of failure? 19:03:34 puchacz: before thinking in terms of "lispworks thinks X". try (describe ') 19:03:36 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-48-197.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:50 Fare: do compile-op and other ops currently work as expected? It doesn't seem right, but maybe I misunderstand them https://gist.github.com/lmj/7af84c9e3f23e2aa746d 19:03:53 <|3b|> puchacz: for which file/macros do you get errors? 19:03:56 puchacz: and if that symbol doesn't come with a macro-function, well, there you go 19:04:04 rk[U-26C4], reminds me of people changing the value of NIL on implementations where that isn't magically caught 19:04:20 |3b| - are you asking specifically about ucw? 19:04:35 Fare: the msg function calls force-output, so presumably buffering isn't it 19:04:36 <|3b|> yeah 19:04:38 lmj`, are you outputting to differently buffered streams? What if you make sure there's only one output stream? 19:05:02 |3b| - there is a loop in vars.lisp file which defines things like +http-ok+. 19:05:04 <|3b|> assuming you haven't made major changes to it already 19:05:06 lmj: compile-file doesn't call force-output 19:05:06 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-122-143.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:11 k0001 [~k0001@host235.190-229-209.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:06:10 <|3b|> doesn't look like the loop define things (which could be a problem) 19:06:40 lmj: btw, uiop now has writeln and println 19:06:53 and uiop-debug has DBG 19:07:44 cmm: (describe)... mind blown:) 19:07:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:58 Fare: the problem arose from having this actual problem indicated in the output; the original problem wasn't writing messages to streams 19:08:11 no more manually jumping over to firefox or lynx or irc to get hyperspec docs... 19:08:20 compile-op :before isn't called before compiling 19:08:34 lmj: afaict, it is 19:08:44 <|3b|> puchacz: what error do you get? 19:09:24 first is +http-ok+ is unbound, which is referred to in initform of one of the classes 19:09:26 <|3b|> (and to clarify, defining things in a loop could have been a problem) 19:09:46 The variable IT.BESE.UCW.CORE:+HTTP-OK+ is unbound. 19:09:55 then 19:09:57 UCW ERROR Hm, even *response* is unbound, just closing the socket without any useful error message 19:09:57 <|3b|> which file is that error from? 19:10:27 |JRG|: ah, i did consider the wouldn't distinguish passed NIL however in my case NIL isn't a usecase. however thanks for showing me the robustness of is-supplied-p 19:10:27 -!- Wukix [~user@173-228-55-74.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:29 it is a backtrace when I try to get any web response 19:10:38 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:10:50 Wukix [~user@173-228-55-74.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 so it does compile well it seems 19:10:59 -!- gabnet [~user@ACaen-652-1-224-116.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:18 I can get around it by changing define-symbol-macro to defvar 19:11:31 not 100% sure it would always work because I don't understand underlying mechanics 19:11:58 Fare: just replace 'write-line' with 'break' and 'format' with 'break', and you'll see that actual compilation comes before perform :before compile-op 19:12:32 lmj: note that your perform before method is there on the SYSTEM, not on the file 19:12:40 so, duh. 19:13:10 (describe '+http-ok+) now gives a symbol with name, but no value and no function value 19:13:15 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:19 refried_ [~refried_@nat-tvwna-outside-visitornet2-b-65.princeton.org] has joined #lisp 19:13:28 Fare: that's why I said I may not understand. So :before compile-op on a system is not called before the system is compiled? 19:13:33 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:05 <|3b|> puchacz: and if you evaluate IT.BESE.UCW.CORE:+HTTP-OK+ at the repl with ucw loaded, do you get an error? 19:14:33 |3b|, no, I get string back 19:14:35 no error 19:15:09 also thanks ggole 19:15:26 k0001_ [~k0001@host203.186-125-106.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:15:32 where describe in lispworks gives unbound in value and unbound in function, describe in sbcl gives: 19:15:37 +HTTP-OK+ names a symbol macro: 19:15:38 Expansion: "200 OK" 19:15:52 lmj: no. prepare-op is performed before the system is compiled 19:15:59 compil-op is performed at the end 19:16:17 it's not performed *around* the perform'ance of the other things 19:16:23 puchacz: and what is the value of *package* at the respective repls? 19:16:41 nor can it, in general, since each action could be performed in a different process 19:17:03 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:11 cmm: same. I just discovered I missed this in lispworks: PLIST (SYSTEM::X86-SYMBOL-MACRO-DEFINITION "200 OK") 19:18:31 <|3b|> puchacz: can you paste the stack trace from the error somewhere? 19:19:04 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host235.190-229-209.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:12 http://pastebin.com/qkvZ3vcK 19:20:13 |3b| pasted 19:20:21 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:20:29 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:31 Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 sellout- [~Adium@184-96-153-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:17 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:50 puchacz: looks like the code using +http-ok+ was compiled before +http-ok+ got defined. perhaps try restarting lispworks, load up ucw and note carefully in which order the files get compiled and loaded? 19:23:08 cmm: ok 19:23:45 I guess eval-when might be somehow relevant here, too, if the definition of +http-ok+ is wrapped in it 19:25:25 -!- sellout- [~Adium@184-96-153-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:26:00 (looking at the source: no, it isn't) 19:28:03 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:27 lmj: you might want to read the asdf2 paper about that 19:29:51 lmj: also, (asdf:traverse 'compile-op 'foo) will show you the plan 19:30:04 or you can (trace perform-plan perform) 19:31:11 lmj: ping 19:31:16 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:30 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:31:30 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 19:32:28 Fare: the issue is conceptual for me. Some expert lispers here (seemingly naturally) thought that :before compile-op would happen before compilation. Didn't you think that too, per the stream red herring? 19:33:09 lmj: there's a long story behind it 19:33:10 Not permanently thought, but momentarily thought. 19:33:16 in your case 19:33:39 and yes, this is a common misconception, that I myself probably had before I had to touch the code and eventually reimplement it 19:34:11 <|3b|> hmm, looks like things should be loaded in the correct order for that symbol macro 19:34:15 But, not to harp on you, but didn't you accidentally think it just now? Because you thought it was a stream problem. 19:35:28 I didn't notice immediately that you were tracing only for the system, not for the file 19:35:32 |3b| I see a guy here might have identical problem: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.ecl.general/6395/focus=6407 19:35:37 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:36:02 I don't need the feature anymore, so I'm not going to pursue it one way or the other. 19:36:03 only when I tried to edit your source did I notice. 19:36:15 lmj: what feature did you actually want? 19:36:32 if I understood the end goal, I could tell you how to achieve it 19:37:06 <|3b|> puchacz: yeah, but if i'm reading the asd right, it should have been loaded too 19:37:08 but perform's are not nested, have never been, will never be. The model is one of actions performed after each dependency has been performed. 19:37:20 Fare: I was going to look for a minimum version of bordeaux-threads, but I ended up doing a feature test instead, which is better because it always works and is indepdenent of asdf. 19:37:23 |3b| yes, files appear in the right order 19:37:39 not around -- and because it's a DAG and not a tree, around doesn't make sense 19:37:53 that is, compile something for one version of bt, compile something else for another, using *features* 19:37:57 <|3b|> though i guess ucw does some complicated things in the .asd 19:38:05 puchacz, |3b|: hrm. I'm kind of rusty, and not an asdf expert by any stretch, but I don't see a dependency between backend/basic-backend.lisp and vars.lisp 19:38:30 lmj: asdf is not geared to work with different versions of a same library. 19:38:35 it can be done with prepare-op, but like a said a feature test is better all-around 19:38:44 <|3b|> cmm: ucw.httpd :depends-on :ucw-core 19:38:47 :if-feature can help 19:38:52 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:12 Fare: not different versions of the same library. A version check for compile-time features. 19:39:56 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:00 asdf3 has :if-feature so some files are only used when some feature is defined 19:40:19 |3b|: knew I've missed something :) 19:40:19 asdf2 has... well, let's recommend #+ and #- if you're using asdf2. 19:40:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA39A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:05 right, this guys' code is very simple: (define-symbol-macro m "tstst") (defvar a m). http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.ecl.general/6395/focus=6407 19:41:13 can somebody explain to me WHY it is wrong please? 19:41:20 it's not wrong 19:41:33 maybe you want defparameter 19:41:37 <|3b|> that message you linked (and the clhs page it links to) explains it 19:41:43 or you'll be surprised by a previous binding 19:42:04 |3b| it tries to explain it but I still don't understand 19:42:18 clearly compiler does not interpret M as macro symbol 19:42:31 <|3b|> the symbol macro isn't defined until the code is loaded 19:42:34 Fare: the original problem was to compile one thing if bt:condition-wait had a :timeout option, and to compile something else otherwise. That can be done by looking at the bt version, or writing a little test to check for :timeout. 19:42:49 The latter is more robust and independent of asdf, so I went with that. 19:43:10 |3b| so surrounding which form in (eval-when....) should help? 19:43:16 <|3b|> but if you compile it first, the code to initialize the defvar has already been compiled before it is loaded 19:43:44 <|3b|> so when you load the file, the defvar is initialized with code that doesn't know about the symbol macro 19:43:52 <|3b|> eval-when would help in that case 19:43:58 lmj: yes, makes sense. 19:44:02 eval-when around macro definition? 19:44:19 In general, I disrecommend using asdf for such tricks. ASDF should be limited to controlling the build. 19:44:28 <|3b|> ucw has the symbol macros in a separate file though, so that shouldn't matter here, since asdf compiles then loads each file before going to the next file 19:44:52 define-symbol-macro doesn't need an eval-when. At least, if the defvar itself isn't in an eval-when. 19:45:29 3b: is there a :depends-on ? If not, the symbol macros might not be loaded before they're used. 19:45:40 Fare: it's not all upsides, though, which is why I debated it in the first place. Doing extra stuff during compilation/execution may be unexpected. 19:45:56 so Fare, why people in this post consider it wrong? lispworks indeed did not load it 19:45:57 <|3b|> Fare: are you sure? that thread says define-symbol-macro has no compile time side effects, and i don't see any listed in clhs 19:46:05 lmj: that's what #. is about, I suppose 19:46:10 <|3b|> Fare: as far as i could tell there were correct :depends-on 19:46:47 <|3b|> Fare: the apparent problem file is in a separate system that :depends on the system that defines the symbol macro 19:46:48 I would have thought it was a bug in lispworks but the thread in discussion says otherwise 19:46:49 puchacz, maybe what you're missing is a :depends-on in your .asd 19:47:01 unless those depend-ons somehow force compilation order but not load order 19:47:44 <|3b|> Fare: does :depends-on in a :module load the dependencies before the components of the module? 19:48:02 or that^ 19:48:03 yes 19:48:10 Fare: I'm just saying even with #. there's still an "unexpectedness" quality in running such tests. 19:48:16 that's the whole point of :depends-on 19:48:29 there isn't a *feature* to look at, I need to run code to find out. 19:48:42 <|3b|> then as far as i can tell dependencies are correct 19:48:50 lmj: not sure what you mean. Any build-time dependency can cause different results at run/test time 19:49:12 3b: missing eval-when is also a good one 19:49:31 I remember when fixing the qres build to run with xcvb, I had to add a whole lot of eval-when's. 19:49:37 Fare: bordeaux-threads doesn't give me a *feature*; I have to find out myself by running code to see if it fails or not. 19:49:54 <|3b|> puchacz: if you put (print +http-ok+) in src/backend/basic-backend.lisp before the defclass basic-response, does it still compile/load? 19:50:09 |3b| trying now 19:50:25 <|3b|> puchacz: and if you replace the +http-ok+ with a string, does it server requests correctly (or whatever you tried that got an error) 19:50:58 if I replace +http-ok+ with a string, it goes further but crashes later on with another problem 19:50:58 lmj: frankly, I would just have asdf require a recent version (assuming bordeaux-threads has versions) 19:51:02 resttime [~rest@par0153.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:51:10 k0001 [~k0001@host167.186-108-164.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:52:11 bordeaux-threads doesn't have a version :-/ 19:53:02 |3b| it does print from end of vars.lisp file 19:53:38 <|3b|> puchacz: out of curiosity, does the following work at repl: (define-symbol-macro foo 1) (defclass foo () ((bar :initform foo))) (make-instance 'foo) 19:53:56 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:10 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host203.186-125-106.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:54:50 |3b| you nailed it 19:54:52 Error: The variable FOO is unbound. 19:55:24 but - I don't have a class named +http-ok+ in ucw 19:55:28 let me try something else 19:55:35 <|3b|> the foo in the :initform is the problem 19:55:42 I'd recommend that bordeaux-threads should use :if-feature and :version (:read-file-form "version.lisp-expr") — but that would imply a dependency on asdf3, which isn't universally there yet 19:55:46 oh, so LW doesn't expand symbol-macros in initforms? 19:55:47 <|3b|> not the class name 19:55:51 *boggle* 19:55:56 <|3b|> that's my best guess 19:56:04 I know 19:56:15 I mean, ouch 19:56:28 I tried with class foox and still problem 19:56:34 so no confusion between namespaces 19:56:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:56:53 do you think it IS lw bug? 19:57:07 seems like a grey area, actually 19:58:00 <|3b|> how so? seems pretty broken to me 19:58:18 scratch that: clhs clearly states that the lexical environment of initforms is the same as the enclosing defclass' 19:58:27 yeah, definitely broken 19:58:36 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:58:51 <|3b|> are global symbol macros in the lexical environment? 19:59:38 it seems like a bug independent of standards hunting... 19:59:49 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:59:54 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:59:56 ok, so problem in LW, not CLHS? 20:00:17 puchacz, what if you use eval-when? 20:00:30 puchacz, problem with you failing to use eval-when, is the consensus 20:00:35 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:47 all implementations but gcl handle eval-when correctly 20:00:49 <|3b|> Fare: did you see the reduced test case? 20:00:59 3b: yes, missing eval-when 20:01:06 <|3b|> Fare: at the repl? 20:01:27 is that defvar in an eval-when? 20:01:36 |3b|: interesting question, really. clhs does say that they are shadowed by lexical bindings, though, so there's _some_ relation 20:01:43 <|3b|> puchacz: just to make sure, try evaluating all 3 forms in separate repl prompts 20:01:55 global symbol macros oughta be in the global environment 20:01:57 <|3b|> Fare: wrong test case, that was just something he though looked similar 20:01:57 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:05 if the problem happens at the repl, probably issue with LW. if it happens during compile-file, missing eval-when. 20:02:07 Fare - macrolet http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=ucw-ucw-core;a=headblob;f=/src/vars.lisp line 127 - macrolet is toplevel form, and what is left from macroexpansion are toplevel forms too, according to gigamonkey 20:02:12 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:15 |3b| - I tried as separate forms 20:02:29 puchacz, gigamonkey is correct 20:02:39 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:51 puchacz, where is your test case? 20:03:10 <|3b|> Fare: (define-symbol-macro foo 1) (defclass foo () ((bar :initform foo))) (make-instance 'foo) 20:03:12 test case is what |3b| pasted here 20:03:22 I tried the same but with class named foox to avoid confusion 20:04:18 I think I can make ucw start by changing define-macro-symbol to defvar inside macrolet 20:04:19 what if you add an eval-when? 20:04:23 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:29 Fare: at repl? 20:04:32 yes 20:04:53 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:08 -!- refried_ [~refried_@nat-tvwna-outside-visitornet2-b-65.princeton.org] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:05:12 or, at repl, in two separate forms? 20:05:58 -!- resttime [~rest@par0153.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:06:06 Fare: same 20:06:21 let me paste 20:06:39 http://pastebin.com/05Kiw1fz 20:06:49 second error message, first is my fat finger 20:07:34 <|3b|> what does the 'try evaluating FOO again' restart do there? 20:07:51 variable unbound 20:07:57 same message 20:08:12 that's a bug in LW 20:08:23 <|3b|> how about picking 2nd restart and entering FOO ? 20:09:10 I entered 27 and got class back 20:09:13 somehow I cannot inspect it 20:09:26 resttime [~rest@par0192.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 <|3b|> yeah, i specifically wondered if it would evaluate FOO properly in the debugger though :) 20:09:41 (slot-value * 'bar) ---> 27 20:09:46 hello lisp-support@lispworks.com 20:10:19 I have another case too :-) 20:11:51 ale4L3 [~alessandr@93.37.132.159] has joined #lisp 20:11:59 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:23 ln [~ln@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 20:16:31 -!- ln [~ln@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 20:17:25 I don't know how to reduce this case to be pasted effectively, but I will try 20:17:37 I wonder if it is my bug or LW's 20:17:51 I say LW is buggy 20:18:25 -!- ale4L3 [~alessandr@93.37.132.159] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:18:37 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:20:37 delicately07 [~delicatel@109.169.4.204] has joined #lisp 20:21:26 sellout- [~Adium@184-96-153-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:19 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:03 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:13 ok, here is my case: http://pastebin.com/aiWeiqw3 20:25:23 I don't know if we have enough information to discuss 20:26:00 -!- sellout- [~Adium@184-96-153-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:16 my point is that "groLeGbrWV" NIL NIL should match defintion &body body, regardless if it is a macro or function 20:27:13 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:28:15 <|3b|> macro should have already been expanded at that point though 20:28:44 so I would think. it is in the body of RENDER, which is a regular method 20:28:57 again, it does work in sbcl 20:29:16 <|3b|> what does the use of that macro look like? 20:31:07 one sec 20:31:40 igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-119-29.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:52 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:32:18 |3b| see here http://pastebin.com/ZBW8RUV3 20:32:39 nothing atrocious I would say 20:33:08 line 4 20:33:50 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:10 <|3b|> and the macro is already defined at that point? 20:34:41 according to asd file, yes 20:34:59 <|3b|> is that your asd file? 20:35:06 no 20:35:25 I have :serial t 20:36:26 <|3b|> paste the .asd too? 20:36:30 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:36:33 :module :web, and in its compoents a file (:file "ucw-helpers"), few more files and (:file "in-language-ids-editor-component") 20:38:09 |3b| http://pastebin.com/m6dy6vwZ 20:38:19 macro is in ucw-helpers 20:38:34 clmsy [~clmsy@178.233.22.39] has joined #lisp 20:39:13 does usocket support IPv6 TCP sockets? 20:39:57 <|3b|> might try adding :serial t to the :module, don't remember if it is inherited from container or not 20:40:06 let me try 20:40:37 I'd like cl-irc to connect to a server using v6 only 20:41:06 <|3b|> :module :web specifically 20:41:19 <|3b|> (though if it is needed, others should have it too) 20:42:21 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:43 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-199-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:42:48 gimme 2 minutes, I need to recompile it all in stages now, due to memory limitation in LW personal 20:42:51 <|3b|> and from looking at the docs, i think it is needed 20:43:06 <|3b|> why all this effort to run it in lw personal? 20:43:18 *|3b|* assumed you had an actual license or something :p 20:43:32 sohail_ [~sohail@76-10-140-246.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:54 |3b| I may - if I can prove to myself it is worth it 20:43:56 sellout- [~Adium@184-96-153-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:13 I may buy it I mean :) 20:45:54 |3b| - yes, that was it - you guys made my day 20:46:09 |3b| I basically cargo culted asd from somewhere, without looking at documentation 20:46:35 probably if sbcl was biting my a*se on that, I would have read it earlier. 20:46:39 but sbcl did not complain 20:48:02 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@76-10-140-246.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:48:38 sohail_ [~sohail@76-10-140-246.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:47 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:53:29 -!- igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-119-29.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:57:22 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host167.186-108-164.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59:18 k0001 [~k0001@host220.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:59:21 igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-119-29.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 gabnet__ 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[~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:57:49 ipmonger: Or row-major-aref 23:58:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:33 rtoym: Hi! :) 23:58:36 -!- xk05 [~xk05@30.176-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]