00:00:21 seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has joined #lisp 00:00:59 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:01:48 Bike: Right, if you don't have a windowing system at all, I'm saying that you could probably launch each application fullscreen, right? 00:02:32 if the operating system lets you mess with the screen, i guess. dos let you do... lots of stuff. 00:04:15 C:\>_ 00:04:23 Unix does everything so much better, even the command prompt. 00:06:30 Bike: So how are modern windowing systems programmed to use 3D acceleration for things like effects, then? 00:08:00 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/faq/x.html#idp76539696 I guess. 00:10:46 in other words it's mediated through the window system dealing with the drivers itself, if i'm understanding this right. 00:12:09 So X allows them to deal with OpenGL in a special way? 00:12:47 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Quit: none] 00:13:07 what's "them" and "deal with" here 00:14:14 Just looking around the source of clutter... https://git.gnome.org/browse/clutter/tree/clutter/x11 00:14:17 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:14:42 GNOME uses clutter, KDE uses Kwin, afaik. 00:16:47 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 00:17:30 -!- daat418 [~daat@131.106.110.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:02 Hmm, so it looks like all the hard work is done in X, so much so that Wayland can't even use regular OpenGL at the moment and instead uses OpenGL ES. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_compositor#Weston 00:20:11 -!- oholiab [oholiab@goatse.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:32 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:21:22 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-222-21.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:33 oholiab [~oholiab@goatse.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:31:01 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:02 -!- cmm 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joined #lisp 00:54:13 yroeht [~yroeht@horgix.fr] has joined #lisp 00:58:55 -!- JesseH [~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:30 -!- s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:51 s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:58 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:39 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:09:57 iAran [~whimse@114.113.197.131] has joined #lisp 01:11:17 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:12:32 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 01:14:41 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:14:55 hello, i am having issues with reading multiple lines of stream 01:15:17 k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:15:32 read-line stream, only gives me a line. how can i recurse on this stream, biting off a line at a time? 01:15:45 call read-line multiple times 01:16:03 will readline eventually return NIL then? 01:16:21 to know when to stop? 01:16:32 read the clhs entry to learn about read-line's behavior on eof. 01:16:34 clhs read-line 01:16:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_lin.htm 01:16:39 thanks 01:18:41 i really wish i could find me old code:/ 01:19:29 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 01:21:24 harish [~harish@111.65.28.55] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:03 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:13 antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 01:33:57 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Shutting down for holycrapsomethingwentreallywrong maintenance] 01:35:42 is it difficult to redefine standard out? 01:35:44 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 01:36:39 LiamH [~none@pool-173-76-205-219.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:42 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 01:38:45 rk[sun]: `*standard-output*' is a special variable. 01:42:35 zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:36 rk[sun]: http://pastebin.kde.org/p6lme8efi/nuhgtw 01:43:37 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D614.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:01 okay thank you. however i am still having trouble trying to figure out how to properly print all the lines of something... 01:45:12 not sure if my brain is broken or what... 01:47:17 justinmc_ [justinmcp@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 01:47:19 -!- justinmc_ 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has joined #lisp 02:00:49 zophy_ [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:47 -!- zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Killed (hubbard.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 02:03:47 -!- zophy_ is now known as zophy 02:04:14 Guest47350 [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:06 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:19 rk[sun]: Maybe this can help you 02:06:21 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:06:39 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:11:09 ASau` [~user@p54AFEBFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:11:14 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-76-205-219.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:11:17 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 02:13:28 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:37 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE8B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has 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joined #lisp 03:35:10 -!- didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:38:49 Anyone know how to get the background color in a LTK canvas object? Documentation is incomplete I believe. 03:39:00 MoHaX [~BSD@178.122.36.210] has joined #lisp 03:47:01 zRecursive [~czsq888@182.148.14.104] has joined #lisp 03:47:08 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:49 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:55:29 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:51 -!- yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:47 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:30 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:02:46 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 04:05:05 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:55 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:17:51 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping 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[~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:10:14 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-42-224.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:47 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-drcvmietrgsegudn] has joined #lisp 09:10:51 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-drcvmietrgsegudn] has quit [Changing host] 09:10:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:11:00 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 09:11:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@host31-50-148-89.range31-50.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:11:55 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:14:29 arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:15:04 good day everyone 09:15:34 Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has joined #lisp 09:15:44 Morning 09:15:47 hello 09:15:47 :D 09:16:09 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 09:16:32 ave Blkt :) 09:16:32 -!- Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has left #lisp 09:16:38 Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has joined #lisp 09:16:40 hi fe[nl]ix 09:18:29 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:19:03 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-42-224.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:19:48 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-127-212.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:22 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:08 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:06 -!- w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:25:18 ZabaQ [~john.conn@86.63.2.14] has joined #lisp 09:25:37 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:26:01 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:26:56 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:30:43 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-hnyhshybrituifel] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:31:34 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 09:32:12 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:54 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D029.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:34:10 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:35 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:39:04 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:19 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 09:40:28 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:25 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:46:17 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-puawtnqwytzsuyax] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:47:10 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 09:47:27 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:48:08 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:16 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 09:51:08 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 09:51:27 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:31 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-jlgykoqsusllxdsq] has joined #lisp 09:55:44 So..a portable ANSI-CL codewalker is impossible? 09:57:16 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-32-231-40.bla800.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:01:23 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:55 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:02:01 ZabaQ: what do you mean by that? 10:03:08 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:20 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:07:30 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:08:54 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:09:01 pillton [~user@124-148-56-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:09:37 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:56 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:12:11 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:12:20 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:31 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 10:12:48 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:13:12 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:14:00 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:14:47 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:16:47 ZabaQ: you've lost me there..what about it is impossible? 10:17:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:39 -!- [JRG] [c209f2f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.9.242.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:20:55 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:22:12 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:25:47 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:26:00 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:26:05 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:28:05 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:28:58 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 10:29:38 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:54 harish_ [~harish@124.197.65.168] has joined #lisp 10:33:47 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:34:49 I was basing it on this : http://john.freml.in/macroexpand-dammit <- no portable way to get at the lexical environment of what you are walking over. 10:35:29 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37:52 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:39:44 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:41:14 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44:33 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:44:48 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:47 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:46:09 leo2007 [~leo@123.115.247.3] has joined #lisp 10:46:27 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:46:59 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-237-55-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:48:09 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:50 ZabaQ: Cool look, I'm confused though as from a quick read it seems he had got it working. I'm at work though so I can read the code just now 10:49:53 man I need more coffee..I meant 'cool link' 10:49:54 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for I need more coffee..I meant 'cool link'. 10:50:16 :-) 10:53:47 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:54:28 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-198-149.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:41 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 10:56:16 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:57:24 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 10:58:01 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 11:02:33 what i can do in R, can i do it in CL too? 11:02:52 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 11:04:05 theos: CL is a general purpose programming language, so... 11:04:09 theos: or even in S or J 11:04:18 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-updpcryubymjumpr] has joined #lisp 11:04:43 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:04:51 if you prefer, there are also B & C 11:05:00 ah thanks. i was hoping for something like "even better" 11:06:05 Not to mention BCPL. 11:06:17 ZabaQ: but those are four letter 11:06:20 s 11:06:55 theos: for the things where R excels, you'll have a hard time finding equally good libraries in CL 11:07:23 or any other language, except for maybe Python/numpy 11:07:27 What does R excel at? 11:07:41 statistics 11:08:33 theos: what are you trying to do? any turing complete language CAN do anything another can, but if you have a certain usecase then you can weigh the language's offering more easily 11:08:36 i see. so CL doesnt have those types of libs 11:08:58 it has a few 11:09:13 I use common lisp to do math stuff everyday. It isn't that hard to get up and running. 11:09:58 what kind of math stuff ? 11:10:18 Baggers trying to find out if CL would be enough for the next project or not 11:10:27 Convex optimisation / Non-linear optimisation. 11:11:12 ggole [~ggole@106-69-26-174.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:11:59 theos: Sorry I guess I missed the bit where you explained what your next project was 11:12:51 Baggers i didnt. its a small statistics software. collecting data and analyzing it 11:13:34 cool 11:16:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-36-47.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:16:53 Munksgaard [~philip@130.225.125.196] has joined #lisp 11:17:42 theos: What sort of analysis? 11:19:11 [JRG] [c209f2f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.9.242.240] has joined #lisp 11:19:22 fe[nl]ix: But haven't each of those letters been used for a language? 11:19:41 not the last two, AFAIK 11:21:47 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 11:23:35 B C P L S & J all seem to be languages...well P is actually p" but close :) 11:23:48 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:23:59 pillton customer data using statistical models. its just an idea in my head right now. looking for best options 11:24:31 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:05 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:25:32 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 11:25:44 this is nice http://www.stat.auckland.ac.nz/~ihaka/downloads/Compstat-2008.pdf 11:25:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:28:05 theos: Well if it is just an idea in your head, I know of no better language to start fleshing out an idea. 11:28:23 theos: Though, the first step should always be in your native tongue. :) 11:28:57 :) 11:29:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:29:25 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 11:29:31 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:30:15 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:41 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0016.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 11:33:05 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:35:07 ski [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 11:38:39 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:38:46 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:39:56 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:41:33 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:44:49 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 11:46:53 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:47:20 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50346.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:25 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50d46.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:50:12 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 11:50:36 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 11:51:00 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:31 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:52:13 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:54:17 ZabaQ: have a look at cl-stepper in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/5e89d06ba1efa1295ae7e0f2be300ae00a08c3d4:common-lisp/lisp 11:54:52 ZabaQ: the only limit to a portable code walker, is the definition of implementation specific special operators that have no "explicative" corresponding macro definition. 11:55:05 ZabaQ: there are a couple of them in some implementations. 11:55:22 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 Other than that, you can implement the code walker by a conforming portable CL program. 11:56:58 The environment problem may only occur when you want to code walk locally, in a lexical environment provided by the implementation. In this case indeed, you may have to have implementation specific access to the environment. 11:57:45 -!- `fogus [~fogus@70.182.191.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:57:46 (let ((x 42)) (symbol-macro-let ((have-fun (x x))) (code-walk (have-fun x)))) 11:58:06 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:58:25 Well, since it's lexically obvious what lexical environment you have here, you can pass it to the code walker, or better, wrap the form in an environment collecting code walker macro: 11:58:30 (code-walking (let ((x 42)) (symbol-macro-let ((have-fun (x x))) (code-walk (have-fun x))))) 12:02:24 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 12:03:20 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:16 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-7-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:04:48 -!- pillton [~user@124-148-56-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 12:05:48 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:48 -!- xk05 [~xk05@30.176-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:02 Baggers: According to wikipedia, the single-letter programming language names are: (B C D E F G J K L M Q R S T Z) remain those names for your new language: (A H I N O P U V W X Y) 12:07:02 12:07:34 pjb: hehe ace 12:07:44 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-237-55-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:01 ejbs [~user@c83-248-105-196.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:09:48 Is it possible to do something like (defun sum (list) (declare (type (list integer) list)) (reduce #'+ list)) - that is: Declare that the input list only contains integers? 12:10:09 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:40 xk05 [~xk05@30.176-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:10 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.54.126] has joined #lisp 12:15:20 STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 12:15:52 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0016.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:15:56 -!- STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:19:30 ejbs: no 12:20:05 -!- ejbs [~user@c83-248-105-196.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:20:31 assert would've been possible, but it likely wouldn't help at compiletime 12:22:25 -!- zeus [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:23:54 well, in theory you can make an integer-list type with the SATISFIES type specifier, but as you say, no compiler is going to do much with that 12:26:38 sebyte [~sebyte@24.20.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 12:26:54 What do people use to create self-contained binary from SBCL today? 12:27:02 Consider ELF platform. 12:27:09 Is it possible to check that a string doesn't contain a certain char using CHECK-TYPE? 12:27:36 sebyte: see above. SATISFIES. 12:27:46 STilda [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has joined #lisp 12:28:45 mal____: Only just joined channel (so don't know what is above) but you've already helped. 12:28:48 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:03 ejbs: The definition of `integer' is not always useful. If you instead know you have `fixnum's, you can do something like: 12:29:45 DGASAU: Xach's buildapp 12:30:02 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:29 mal____: satisfies is probably closer to the intended interpretation. 12:30:53 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 12:32:07 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lldvugvgpvkhbdyp] has joined #lisp 12:32:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lldvugvgpvkhbdyp] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:07 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:32:33 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 12:32:36 satisfies doesn't declare any types, it's only useful for run-time type checking 12:33:38 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:34:41 it can be used in conjunction with deftype to declare a type. see the example in DEFTYPE where they define square-matrix as a type. 12:34:44 didi: declaring things as fixnums is worse 12:34:53 stassats: Not true here. 12:35:02 It's faster for me. 12:35:11 i'm not talking about speed 12:35:16 i'm talking about correctness 12:35:20 and a compiler would be free to make use of that information 12:35:37 That's why I said "If you instead know you have `fixnum's". 12:35:55 still bad 12:36:01 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D029.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:09 if you know the magnitude of your numbers, declare it 12:36:16 as in (integer -235 426) 12:36:29 fixnum is implementation and platform-dependent 12:36:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:36:35 Sure. 12:36:59 ideally, you should never use it 12:39:04 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:39:15 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 12:42:14 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 12:43:20 bl0 [~x0a@91.150.147.9.internetia.net.pl] has joined #lisp 12:43:41 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:07 I see. 12:44:14 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 12:46:54 fabstr [52b61627@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.22.39] has joined #lisp 12:46:58 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:59 badboy4471 [~tiger@115.206.155.39] has joined #lisp 12:48:53 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:49:00 -!- badboy4471 [~tiger@115.206.155.39] has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:14 samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:26 badboy4471 [~tiger@115.206.155.39] has joined #lisp 12:50:39 -!- badboy4471 [~tiger@115.206.155.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:15 some things are guaranteed to be fixnums, like array indexes 12:52:33 but these things are usually well derived automatically, if you're using LENGTH or AREF 12:54:35 -!- fabstr [52b61627@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.22.39] has left #lisp 12:56:45 -!- rk[moon] is now known as rk[wrk] 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So that when they write to this stream my code takes what is written and works with that (piecemeal) and similarly when the user reads from the stream? 14:11:53 only with gray streams 14:14:38 so will sb-gray do that? How do I indicate which side I'm on (user vs. library)? 14:14:44 -!- STilda2 [~STilda@188.162.166.10] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 14:15:01 chris_l: what do you want to do exactly ? 14:15:55 well, I'm trying to implement tcp (as an experiment). I want the user to say (with-connection (s addr) ... read/write from s 14:19:21 iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has joined #lisp 14:19:24 you don't have to use streams, do you? 14:20:12 well that makes for a superior user interface, but no I could just have buffers passed around 14:20:32 it is an experiment, isn't it? 14:20:47 so there's no easy way to do it? 14:20:58 gray streams 14:26:07 oudeis [~oudeis@176.201.207.255] has joined #lisp 14:28:49 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@wireless-86-50-134-205.open.aalto.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:29:11 echo-area [~user@123.120.251.76] has joined #lisp 14:29:13 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:08 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 14:33:20 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:33:26 chris_l: what do you mean "implement tcp" ? 14:33:48 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:12 eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-24-20-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:35:29 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:36:05 peterhil [~peterhil@wireless-86-50-134-191.open.aalto.fi] has joined #lisp 14:37:28 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-7-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:30 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:38:51 -!- eudoxia_ is now known as eudoxia 14:39:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-20-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit 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fe[nl]ix: create a bit of software that builds up on packet sockets and is capable of maintaining tcp connections 15:17:26 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@wireless-86-50-134-191.open.aalto.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:19:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:20:00 Joreji [~thomas@165-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:22:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:14 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-179-218.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:24:24 -!- robsmoniker [uid6984@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykrvwhgmvoqedobs] has left #lisp 15:24:33 robsmoniker [uid6984@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykrvwhgmvoqedobs] has joined #lisp 15:24:39 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-255-210.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:55 Oddity [~Oddity@154.20.70.67] has joined #lisp 15:25:58 -!- 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[~hiroaki@77-23-26-6-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:42:37 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:35 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:15 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.27] has joined #lisp 15:48:29 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:03 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:53:43 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-20-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:55:27 Aisling [ash@blk-89-193-61.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-89-193-61.eastlink.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:00 Aisling [ash@blk-89-193-61.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 15:56:52 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-89-193-61.eastlink.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:38 algae [~algae@akoostix.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:46 chris_l: you can use gray stream to implement this kind of pipe. Notice that you will have to use threads at each end of the "pipe" and you will have to be careful about deadlocks. Without threads, you run the risk of blocking upon buffer full when the other side writes. 15:59:47 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D029.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:01 does anyone know a good example of using gray streams this way by chance? 16:00:38 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:11 chris_l: as a Q&D solution you could open a named pipe twice, once :output and once :input, but you'll have the same problem of deadlock if you don't use threads. 16:01:21 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:01:33 chris_l: there's no example. You will have to study gray streams and implement the pipe yourself. 16:02:21 will I need seperate variables for input and output (in the gray streams case)? 16:03:05 pjb: doesn't swank-gray.lisp have something similar? 16:03:07 -!- sebyte [~sebyte@24.20.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:03:18 Q&D solution: (run-program "mknod" '("/tmp/myfifo" "p")) (make-thread (let ((input (open "/tmp/myfifo" :direction :input))) (lambda () (read input)))) (make-thread (let ((output (open "/tmp/myfifo" :direction :output :if-exists :append))) (lambda () (write buffer output)))) 16:03:20 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@176.201.207.255] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:03:21 there's iolib/sockets:make-socket-pair 16:05:26 nipra [~nipra@122.177.51.116] has joined #lisp 16:06:25 fe[nl]ix: that looks nice! 16:06:47 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D029.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:56 foeniks [~fevon@p5091E2B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:21 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:14 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 -!- mlamari_ [~quassel@72.183.103.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:14 iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has joined #lisp 16:17:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:19:55 -!- tylergoza [~quassel@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:04 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.115.247.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@165-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:48 leo2007 [~leo@123.115.247.3] has joined #lisp 16:22:02 -!- iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:23:02 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:31 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 16:23:33 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ljmqxqovcgizxcaz] has joined #lisp 16:23:48 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 16:26:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:34 gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:33 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:39:12 fe[nl]ix: Ping 16:40:45 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:49 hello rtoym 16:41:59 -!- [JRG] [c209f2f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.9.242.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:43:19 rtoym: can you fetch the latest fiveam and bordeaux-threads and run (asdf:test-system :bordeaux-threads) ? 16:43:57 I get a weird error "foo" is not EQUAL to "foo" when then tests are run after being compiled 16:44:08 fe[nl]ix: Sure. It might take a bit, but I'll run them. 16:44:08 but if I exit the image and try again, everything's fine 16:44:35 (Is the latest in quicklisp or do I have to get it from the repo?) 16:45:20 from the repo, both 16:45:23 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:49:37 -!- kanru` [~kanru@89.202.203.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:49:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-20-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:38 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:51 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:59:14 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:55 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50346.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:55 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-20-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:00:05 add^_` [~user@m176-70-201-126.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:00:25 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-126.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:46 -!- add^_` is now known as add^_ 17:01:46 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50346.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:11 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:04:28 -!- daat418 [~daat@131.106.110.176] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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It's been running for a long time now. 19:19:04 sohail [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:04 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:19:04 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:19:43 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:21:21 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:14 -!- iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:24:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@192.130.152.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:06 -!- chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:29 noncopy [~user@178.233.218.108] has joined #lisp 19:34:01 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.121] has joined #lisp 19:38:04 hello all, does anyone know the maintainer of http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/? 19:39:49 you could ask in #ccl 19:40:07 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:41:00 sbcl produces compile-time warnings when format is called with the wrong number of arguments; is there a way to get this kind of check for a custom function using similar (format &rest args) arguments ? the lisp equivalent of __attribute__((format(printf, ...))) 19:41:32 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D029.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:39 segv-: thanks, i'll try 19:42:36 galdor: could you give an example of a format call that does so? 19:42:43 -!- ZaFrost [~varren@95-26-16-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:43:45 (defun test () (format t "~A")) 19:43:52 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:44:10 galdor: not really, format calls, via an sbcl defoptimizer, check-format-args which is the function that does the actualy warning. 19:44:23 you could write your own compiler-macro to do compile time checks on the args 19:44:38 but there's not much that generic enough to be reused 19:44:52 (of course, you are free to call sb-??::check-form-args yourself 19:45:02 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:36 ok ok 19:45:38 thank you 19:46:49 galdor: otherwise, you could implement your code to expand, at macro/compile time, into a call to format and hope that sbcl's own checking code kicks in 19:47:16 I just looked at the code behind format, it's really interesting 19:47:32 sz0 [~textual@c-67-169-70-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:48:35 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:50:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-65-220.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:56 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:57:46 -!- sz0 [~textual@c-67-169-70-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:57:55 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.121] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 Okasu 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axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:28 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:02:05 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:41 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-126-11.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:57 Considering how much I use it, Im surprised diff-sexp isnt in Quicklisp. Does it just need someone to make a real package out of it? Is there a better alternative? Ill see if I can get in touch with Michael Weber about it, if not. 22:02:58 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 22:03:31 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:03:33 add^_` [~user@m83-185-23-90.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:04:44 sellout-: it probably needs an asdf system to go to quicklisp 22:04:56 sellout-: "package" is another concept in Common Lisp :P 22:05:09 Denommus: Heh, yeah, sorry, sloppy language. 22:05:42 Too much Haskell, lately, I suppose. 22:06:00 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-126.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:06:43 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:53 *jaimef* thought this # was Uncommon lisp 22:07:25 Considering Common is not that common these days you might be right. 22:07:54 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-244.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:29 sellout-: anyway, what is this diff-sexp? Like diff, but detects differences on s-expressions? 22:10:34 Denommus: (note, likely NSFW image at top of the post) http://lemonodor.com/archives/001226.html 22:11:07 -!- |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-136-79.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:27 -!- add^_` is now known as add^_ 22:12:27 -!- noncopy [~user@178.233.218.108] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:21 -!- arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [] 22:13:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:40 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f699ad.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:14:26 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:14:56 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f699ad.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:44 -!- seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b015:3c86:fc4c:b67e:1610:9198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:48 sellout-: I probably won't be able to see this at work, then 22:16:10 |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-136-79.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:16:19 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D029.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:36 Denommus: Oh, here  http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/log/programming/lisp/diff-sexp  safe :) 22:16:45 sellout-: thanks 22:16:51 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzzZ] 22:17:09 Denommus: Dont follow that link to Lemonodor at the bottom, though ;) 22:17:20 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:17:22 iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has joined #lisp 22:18:49 sellout-: wow, that is awesome 22:19:53 Yeah, I load it in my init file, so I always have it handy. 22:20:46 Anyway, Ill email Michael, see if hell systemize it. If not, I will. 22:20:46 Michael Weber looks like he's out of the game 22:21:01 Fare: Yeah, thats my guess, too. Still like to check first. 22:21:08 he never replied to mail I sent early this year about issues with his libraries and asdf3 22:21:12 Oh  22:21:27 Ok, gotta run. 22:21:33 that I "resolved" by disabling deferred warning checking in asdf3. 22:21:41 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:47 sellout-, btw, regarding executor... 22:21:52 -!- iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:22:29 the latest asdf has a %run-program which is a portable abstraction of all the run-program's in implementations that have one. 22:22:57 so if you use that, your library becomes maximally portable. 22:23:05 -!- rk[wrk] is now known as ryankarason 22:23:07 which is not that much 22:23:13 Why not uiop:run-program instead of %run-program? 22:23:16 damn, he left 22:23:28 pjb: because uiop:run-program is higher-level 22:23:45 and his executor library want to control other processes asynchronously 22:23:45 I see. 22:23:56 uiop:run-program is synchronous 22:24:03 rationalrevolt [~rationalr@pool-173-54-189-40.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:17 it processes the I/O, and gives you the final result 22:24:32 %run-program allows you to asynchronously interact with the process. 22:24:54 -!- rationalrevolt [~rationalr@pool-173-54-189-40.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:20 This sounds like a useful API too, asynchronous. But I guess more work would be needed to make it nice and exported. 22:25:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:43 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:20 hm, you guys, which have more time in the house than me: how many people entered the community planning to "save" Common Lisp with a new implementation, OS or standard? 22:29:29 seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b015:3c86:68c4:674b:7268:dbe9] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 uncountable? 22:29:42 pretty much 22:29:57 I don't even have one year in the community, and this is already feding me up 22:30:39 (although I'd love to contribute to a LLVM implementation, but I don't even know how to start one) 22:30:49 It's the meta-programming side of lisp that push people to do that. 22:31:13 well the main issue with new implementations is that the old ones are pretty good and you can modify them. like drmeister's been doing. 22:31:26 Bike: also new ones are hard 22:31:38 right, that's what i meant 22:33:00 also from that you can probably infer that people who want to "save" CL by a new implementation probably don't know it very well 22:33:01 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 22:33:21 Bike: this is something that makes me curious, actually. Would it be possible to create a backend for LLVM for either SBCL or CCL? 22:33:29 pjb: also it's intrinsically less portable. And for better portability and functionality, you'd want to use iolib, anyway 22:33:33 for some value of "possible" 22:33:34 Denommus: Of course it would be. 22:33:37 anything's possible 22:33:48 pjb: that makes my dream more reachable 22:34:02 Denommus, drmeister, on this channel, has a llvm implementation using a lot of the ECL runtime 22:34:07 many things take a whole lot of work, and some of them take so much work as to probably not be worth doing (vs other things) 22:34:33 Fare: that seems a lot more reasonable 22:34:38 namccarty [~namccarty@74-131-94-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:44 Fare: I would have thought that I could have ECL compile to LLVM by simply using clang as the C compiler 22:35:00 -!- namccarty [~namccarty@74-131-94-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has left #lisp 22:35:13 oGMo: what makes you think CL is work working on, as compared to, e.g. Racket, Gambit Scheme, Maru, Clojure, etc.? 22:35:39 Denommus, possibly, though not exactly the same thing. 22:35:40 Denommus: well, that could be another way, making ecl work with clang instead of gcc.. 22:35:48 Fare: i mean adapting CCL or SBCL to use LLVM vs doing just about anything else 22:36:07 maru's an odd thing to throw in there 22:36:09 I suppose by short-circuiting the C parsing, he can also overcome some semantic limitations of C, and have more dynamicity 22:36:20 Fare: indeed 22:36:32 oGMo: there were preliminary studies by e.g. foom on LLVM as a backend to SBCL. 22:36:34 is drmeister implementation public yet? 22:36:45 Denommus, not that I know -- bug him! 22:37:07 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-216-136-196.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:19 pjb: AFAIK, ECL uses the environment variable CC 22:37:53 That's good. Does it use any specific-gcc stuff? 22:38:05 I think not 22:38:13 but I'm not sure 22:38:33 I have to arrive home to test that. I'm in an inferior environment at work 22:39:35 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:38 anyway, I must admit that I would be curious to know how a modern lisp operating system would work, but I don't think this is essential, like a broader amount of libraries 22:42:24 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:45:07 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:47:00 Denommus: what were the logical conclusions of the old lisp machines? 22:47:12 i.e. how would you take them further, and that's what a modern lisp machine would be like 22:47:37 Denommus: did you know RMS originally had planned for lisp to be a systems language just as much as C? 22:47:58 gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:52 nisstyre: yes 22:49:19 Denommus: can you imagine writing graphics card drivers in lisp? 22:49:19 guile and Emacs were two results for that. But I don't think he was planning to be specifically Common Lisp, just a lisp. Maybe some weird GNU-specific Lisp 22:49:23 that would be cool 22:49:39 Denommus: that's why I said lisp lowercase 22:49:45 nisstyre: there's schemix, if you want to do that. 22:50:00 there are more lisps for that, IIRC 22:50:08 pjb: It would have to be a very simple gpu 22:50:16 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:19 Why? 22:50:29 pjb: because otherwise it would take me a long time to get anywhere 22:50:38 pjb: something like opencl except in lisp would be cool though 22:50:45 The point if drivers, notably of gpu drivers, is that they don't do much, they just setup things to let the hardware do the work. This can be done in any language. 22:50:58 pjb: well, yes but I have never written one before 22:51:38 pjb: schemix looks neat though, thanks 22:51:50 unmaintained though apparently 22:51:57 so I have to use old ass kernels 22:52:23 does Linux break the kernelspace? 22:52:31 The point is that there are the tools to do anything you want with lisp. Linux Device Drivers? Schemix, your own kernel? Movitz (or sbcl on bare metal). Etc. 22:52:33 Denommus: what does that mean? 22:52:46 pjb: of course 22:52:46 Of course, from 1 to 2, and from 2 to 3. 22:53:18 Denommus, there are Haskell, OCaml, Java, etc., implementations on bare metal 22:53:19 nisstyre: it means "does Linux let old drivers stop working with newer versions?" 22:53:27 I think the answer is "no" 22:53:39 I'm pretty sure you could run maru that way, too 22:53:40 Yes, not for drivers. 22:53:44 Denommus: I think they're very strict about not breaking compatibility 22:54:01 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-244.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:11 nisstyre: so, what's the problem of using schemix? It probably should work on Linux 22:54:17 where "bare metal" actually means "in a Xen or kvm hypervised virtual machine" 22:54:22 Denommus: well I would have to use it in a VM 22:54:31 but yeah sure I guess 22:54:34 -!- Guest13084 [~on@184.red-80-28-70.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:00 (VM because I have an nvidia gpu) 22:55:25 pjb: I didn't know sbcl could run on the bare metal 22:55:37 isn't that the whole point of sbcl? 22:55:53 no. 22:55:56 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.129.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:06 "bare metal" is slang for "without an operating system" which is hardly a design goal of sbcl. 22:56:13 oh ok 22:56:26 nisstyre: compiling to native code is different from running on the bare metal 22:56:27 there is movitz, though. 22:56:32 so one could write a bootloader using sbcl though? 22:56:35 theoretically 22:56:41 or would it be too big? 22:56:43 Bike: which is, sadly, unmaintained :-/ 22:56:48 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:57:21 i think if i wanted to write a bootloader in something better than C i'd use Rust or something. A language designed for that kind of application. 22:57:27 nisstyre: I think you could in movitz. Bike and pjb don't seem to agree over SBCL running on the bare metal 22:57:32 Bike: yeah of course 22:58:15 nisstyre: If GNU Mach ever gets rewritten, very solid support for Guile -- would be nice. 22:58:36 Bike: this is something that always make me think: is it possible to have a Lisp for system dev? 22:58:38 Denommus: if pjb means that sbcl could target an operatingsystemless system with some modification then sure that's true. 22:58:45 Denommus: sure. 22:58:49 the problem is why do you want that. 22:59:02 *nisstyre* doesn't want it 22:59:05 Bike: I don't want that, it's just curiosity 22:59:10 or I don't really care if it gets done 22:59:45 Denommus: i don't know much about rust but it does have macros of some kind, as in on a better level than C's dumb text replacement. 23:01:58 Bike: on a related note SBCL's VOP let you inline assembly iiuc? 23:03:02 -!- seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-216-136-196.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:28 -!- seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b015:3c86:68c4:674b:7268:dbe9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:44 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:28 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:12:39 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ompoutrqnhgazhjd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:12 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:14:29 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:32 -!- tylergoza [~quassel@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:18 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:32 PuercoPop: it's not really for that. 23:16:01 *PuercoPop* nods 23:16:06 seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has joined #lisp 23:17:21 iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has joined #lisp 23:18:27 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:18:30 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:37 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:00 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 vircures [~vircures@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:50 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yidcrdzplwnkyhyb] has joined #lisp 23:29:10 -!- gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:05 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:35 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:40:40 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:41:24 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yidcrdzplwnkyhyb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:16 -!- vircures [~vircures@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: vircures] 23:51:09 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has joined #lisp 23:51:15 -!- iAran [~whimse@58.101.101.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:52:46 zRecursive [~czsq888@61.157.40.132] has joined #lisp 23:58:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]