00:00:50 -!- Jaynes [~Haskell@65.217.157.106] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:01:16 -!- seangrove [~user@66.159.50.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:01 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:08 sohail [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:08 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:05:08 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:06:00 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:20 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-vtsidfphpnftzrqw] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 00:11:49 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:11:56 is there a standard utility function to take the first n elements of a list or sequence? 00:12:12 SUBSEQ 00:13:45 Hexstream: thanks, that will do the job. i was thinking of something like TAKE but i guess that has to do with lazy evaluation etc. 00:13:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-148-30.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:53 cmm [~cmm@109.67.148.30] has joined #lisp 00:17:31 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-068-018-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:20:26 -!- desophos_ [~desophos@134.69.85.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:20:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.148.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:20 cmm [~cmm@109.67.148.30] has joined #lisp 00:33:18 anyone ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/139456 00:35:02 try #schemehomework 00:35:06 That's Scheme. This channel is about Common Lisp. 00:35:21 vs uncommon 00:36:57 ok 00:36:59 sorry 00:40:10 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-173-67-27-249.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:16 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:44:29 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:49 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.82] has joined #lisp 00:56:30 erikc [~erikc@CPE78cd8e65fa60-CM78cd8e65fa5d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:54 -!- alex123 [~alex@c213-89-69-183.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 01:04:47 desophos_ [~desophos@n133h110.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:04:48 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.148.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:50 minion: memo for sabra: You asked "Hexstream: Can I use some of your comments about documentation in my document generator tool review?" but I wasn't there. Answer: Certainly! Would be nice if you emailed (hexstream@gmail.com) me a link to your article when you're done. 01:05:50 Remembered. 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#lisp 11:07:49 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:09:25 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:52 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:57 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@117.83.13.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:31 nilsi_ [~nilsi@117.83.13.133] has joined #lisp 11:16:28 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0023.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 11:17:55 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:49 Does anyone have experience creating a binary of a CommonQt Lisp application? I was able to create a binary with buildapp that runs fine, but it appears the commonqt.so library is loaded in with a static path, so I can't deploy it to other machines. Any ideas on how to get around this issue? 11:18:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-22-15.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:22:11 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.21] has joined #lisp 11:24:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.21] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:25:12 JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:41 -!- gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:44 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:51 milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 11:30:40 BitPuffin [~BitPuffin@s193-13-104-217.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:31:39 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:16 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:05 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@434.lab.ics.p.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:28 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:56 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:04 Shinmera: you will have to reload the library in the startup function. 11:40:08 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 11:40:42 It's not that it's a static path, it's that the path is computed when you load the library, and then if you save the image, then the path is saved along. 11:40:50 Right. 11:40:53 This doesn't matter, as long as you explicitely reload the library. 11:41:23 I think I should manage to implement that then. Thanks! 11:41:57 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:42:04 Now perhaps a good question would be what implementations could provide so when saving an image, libraries are saved like for elf programs, (cf. ldd), so they're automatically reloaded when the image is restarted. 11:42:07 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:42:47 I don't know enough about elf, and implementation image saving 11:42:54 wouldn't providing LD_LIBRARY_PATH do the trick? 11:43:47 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:44:04 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-227-154-112.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:32 loading :qt requires system to have gcc build, providing *.so file with app doesn't 11:50:04 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:00 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D2DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:55:30 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:57:25 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:00:31 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:18 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.117.225] has joined #lisp 12:03:36 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 12:09:01 chenjf [~chenjf@120.84.13.8] has joined #lisp 12:11:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:42 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D2DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:16:45 davazp [~user@92.251.158.176.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 12:17:26 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:18 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:52 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:20:01 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:20:16 Alright, got it working by binding the load-foreign-library-error and restarting with a custom library path. 12:20:19 Thanks again! 12:21:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:35 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@ec2-54-205-164-123.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:35:07 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:36:19 karsten [~karsten@host109-145-33-162.range109-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 -!- karsten is now known as klt 12:39:05 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:29 ikki [~ikki@201.141.77.216] has joined #lisp 12:40:23 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D2DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:32 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-165-73.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:54 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0023.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: bbl] 12:42:09 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-147.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:42:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:42:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-130-25.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:43:19 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:44:55 CL's build systems are so painful. I want to make a normal program that can be built with "make" and installed with "sudo make install". All build files should be created under the build directory. Problem #1: How do I configure ASDF to put all the fasls (and other iolib's files) under the build directory? (Say ./build/). 12:50:12 chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:39 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:53:18 dtw: stop wanting that 12:54:11 dtw: I wouldn't say what fe[nl]ix did, but I would ask if you have a good reason for wanting that? 12:54:35 i solved the problem of having to write and debug programs: i stopped wanting to do it 12:54:53 my hero 12:56:46 That's why building and delivering is painful. It's difficult to control what files go where and that other people have just the needed files in right places. 12:56:58 only Readable Lisp may challenge my conviction 12:57:59 dtw: what are you talking about ? 12:58:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-89-145.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:59:50 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@cpe-69-204-253-25.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:11 -!- oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [] 13:02:14 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:02:21 dtw: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-saves-compiled-files 13:03:46 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@cpe-69-204-253-25.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:48 -!- petrounias [~petrounia@ppp-2-85-25-221.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: petrounias] 13:04:00 I've been reading the doc but haven't written anything that works yet. 13:04:01 stassats: Are you saying that you stopped enjoying programming, but RL changed that and now you enjoy it again? 13:04:18 loke: absolutely! 13:04:45 stassats: that sounds... absolutely fantastic for you! 13:05:22 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:06:29 scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:29 stassats: will SBCL be ported over to RL? 13:07:59 loke: you mean its syntax changed? only if Krystof will allow it 13:08:22 what is RL? 13:08:37 Readable Lisp 13:09:18 stassats: Oh. I didn't realise you were serious 13:10:40 looks interesting 13:11:16 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 loke: there's Poe's law for that 13:12:37 stassats: Mmmm... That's very true 13:13:49 No operator precedence for formulas. Sucks. 13:13:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:14:03 Well, enough people clearly like RL enough that it actually exists 13:14:33 only its author? 13:14:36 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:43 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat103.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:15:21 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:15:33 prxq: a serious commentary on it would also address the fact that attempting to fully replicate the semantic information in S-exps without parens makes for an incredibly confusing syntax. Just look at how they deal with multiple starting parens 13:15:36 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:42 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@ec2-54-205-164-123.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:06 stassats: well, I've seen people saying they like it. They may have been bots, or trolling though. Poe's Law and that 13:16:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:16:17 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:16:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-89-145.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:41 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:06 loke: maybe, but a nicer surface syntax would be helpful for some use cases (like having certain types of users write scripts). Of course infix + baroque is more confusing, but people seem to mind the parens more. 13:17:34 prxq: for that, some extension of the INFIX package is enough, IMHO 13:17:47 until you need a loop 13:18:02 but yes, infix is very nice 13:18:15 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 loke: maybe parenthesis and readability are not the problems and in reality there should be a Modest Lisp 13:18:32 because, apparently, people don't like smugness of CL 13:18:51 Also, creating a parser/lexer that generates lisp code is trivial. I did it for my template language. Less than 100 lines, and just as powerful as any other template langage. 13:19:09 (and it generates compiled native code, so it's probably among the fastest :-) ) 13:19:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-89-145.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:19:16 Idk why but I've encountered lots of people that laugh upon hearing "lisp" even though they know pretty much nothing about it. 13:19:18 loke: nice. did you publish it? 13:19:30 Shinmera: the world is full of that 13:19:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat103.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:19:52 I mean, like, derogatorily laugh at it. 13:19:53 prxq: https://github.com/lokedhs/lofn 13:20:06 Shinmera: I know :-) 13:20:29 Shinmera: they are ashamed that they haven't been able to master it, so they turn the tables around 13:20:33 prxq: there is no example code there though. You can take a look at the .tmpl files in docbrowser (which uses (and earlier version of) that template language): 13:20:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:21:08 stassats: Btw, the smugness had the inverse effect for me. For me it provoked curiosity to see where that smugness came from, rather than being put off by it. 13:21:18 https://github.com/lokedhs/docbrowser/blob/master/src/template/show_package.tmpl 13:21:19 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:22:23 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:51 -!- chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 13:22:59 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 13:23:56 loke: will take a look at it; thanks 13:27:12 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:27:30 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 13:29:55 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-147.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:19 echo-area [~user@123.120.252.57] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:31:00 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.252.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:03 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:31:34 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:32:07 echo-area [~user@123.120.252.57] has joined #lisp 13:32:21 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:32:47 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:12 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 13:34:19 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:37 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:18 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-89-145.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:01 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-14-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:42:08 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:46:51 davazp` [~user@92.251.155.184.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 13:48:56 dtw: asdf2 & 3 are quite easy to configure 13:49:11 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.158.176.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:49:31 dtw: if you need help, ring in 13:49:40 the docs could use more examples 13:50:08 I need to deliver libiolib-syscalls.so. Where to install it so that it works system-wide? 13:50:12 the docs could use a complete rewrite 13:50:27 wherever you want it to be 13:50:49 dtw: just use make! 13:50:54 I was thinking of writing down something akin to Bundler that would make building software a bit easier (grab deps, from QL or elsewhere, then make a configuration file for ASDF) 13:50:54 I admit the iolib delivery could use a little work 13:51:06 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:51:06 maybe dll-op or monolithic-dll-op can help 13:51:17 dtw: use the latest iolib not the one in quicklisp 13:51:17 but they probably need to be fixed first 13:51:20 Once upon a time, I compiled my CL libraries with Makefiles. Worked nicely. 13:51:48 that way you won't need to deliver the libiolib-syscalls.so any more because it's no longer generated 13:52:14 ogamita, I did that too, except the Makefile was generated by XCVB :) 13:53:01 p_l, program-op and/or cl-launch mostly do that for you... except for that pesky .so issue 13:53:25 Indeed, eventually I had a program to generate the makefile and the asd file. :-) 13:53:28 Fare: That's for building, i was thinking more of preparing the environment so that you could use those 13:53:41 I've been wasted on makemake in Modula-2 :-) 13:53:45 especially in repeatable ways 13:53:54 that is, reproducible 13:54:23 My SBCL image tries to load libiolib-syscalls.so where it was at the build time. How do I configure it to load it from /usr/lib/ for example? 13:54:39 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:45 dtw: use the latest IOlib 13:54:57 dtw: don't save the image with libiolib-syscalls loaded 13:55:17 Good, but using something outside Quicklisp is a whole series of other problems this time. 13:55:38 what do you mean this time ? 13:55:54 dtw: just old problems. 13:56:01 the problems we had before quicklisp. 13:56:20 quit 13:56:29 -!- klt [~karsten@host109-145-33-162.range109-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:56:47 Yeah, so building and delivering end-user Lisp programs is painful. 13:57:09 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:57:13 solve it! 13:57:20 it's not like the problem is THAT hard 13:57:34 why not an extension to asdf that calls buildapp 13:57:36 there are only a handful elements 13:57:46 eudoxia, because you didn't write it 13:57:54 now i feel guilty :C 13:58:01 Fare, my SBCL image tries to load libiolib-syscalls.so where it was at the build time. How do I configure it to load it from /usr/lib/ for example? 13:58:03 but cl-launch will build and deliver a standalone executable for you 13:58:10 dtw: don't save the image with libiolib-syscalls loaded 13:58:20 dtw: you modify CFFI so it does the right thing 13:58:29 Fare: CFFI doesn't do that 13:58:59 you add a pre-image-dump hook to unload the .so, and a post-image-restore-hook to re-load it 13:59:07 stassats, Ahaa. So I load this .so file manually? 13:59:16 from the correct place 13:59:20 dtw: yes 13:59:38 you can't know the correct place, leave loading to dlopen 14:00:29 dtw: see cffi:close-foreign-library 14:00:39 p_l: cl-launch currently works great, except for the .so issue 14:01:00 dtw: if you make a program then I suggest you bundle your libraries together and don't rely on quicklisp 14:01:44 but now that asdf/uiop brings image support with hooks, and bundle support, you could (1) build a bundle for the .so, (2) unload all .so's before you dump the image, (3) load them from a proper place at runtime before you restart the application 14:02:10 asdf/bundle is here for exactly that 14:02:18 stassats, thanks. I think I got the idea. 14:02:42 making it work with both sbcl and ecl can be tricky... but focus on sbcl for now 14:03:05 dtw: and I'm IOlib's author, I would venture to say that I know what I'm talking about 14:03:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:03:35 yes, quicklisp is NOT an end-user delivery mechanism 14:03:48 asdf's program-op and/or cl-launch are 14:03:56 or buildapp 14:04:05 but they need to be taught about .so's 14:04:29 and CFFI probably needs to be patched for that. 14:05:29 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:28 -!- Ayey_ [~rune@0309ds7-ar.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:07:18 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:08:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:27 -!- ericmathison 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[~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:16 The problem is still libiolib-syscalls.so because I still can't unload it from my SBCL image. cffi:close-foreign-library needs the object returned by cffi:load-foreign-libary which I don't have. 14:22:49 dtw: do I really have to keep telling you that iolib 0.7.3 is way too old ? 14:23:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:23:52 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:24:03 dtw: in the latest version I moved all C code to an external library 14:24:12 for which I provide binary repositories 14:24:34 dtw: cffi:close-foreign-library wants a name 14:25:34 unless it doesn't have one 14:25:48 then it could be more problematic 14:26:15 it's iolib.syscalls::libiolib-syscalls 14:27:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:29:50 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31:23 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[~BitPuffin@s193-13-104-217.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:31:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:31:54 leo2007 [~leo@61.149.217.126] has joined #lisp 15:31:56 phf [~phf@mail.rslstoploss.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:55 -!- cyc0 [~cyco@150.140.215.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:47 antgreen [~green@out-on-212.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:36 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:35:46 oholiab [oholiab@goatse.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:27 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:29 hey, are there any functions in the CLISP repl to a) print a function's documentation string and b) print a function's source? 15:37:03 clhs documentation 15:37:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 15:37:06 for a) 15:37:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:38:10 xk05 [~xk05@30.176-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:19 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:45 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bwbqpqhxidplwhmw] has joined #lisp 15:42:12 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-212.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:42:24 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:26 oholiab: there is `describe' function in SBCL (i don't know whether there is one in CLISP), for example: (describe 'quote) 15:42:52 yeah, there appears to be one in CLISP too but I'm not entirely convinced it's working correctly 15:42:54 describe is standard CL -- (describe 'describe) would have told you 15:43:01 describe is standard. whether it prints source is not. 15:43:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43:15 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-bsmmqslrnmeecqzt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:18 why use CLISP? masochism? 15:43:34 extreme need for portability? 15:43:36 Fare: ignorance ;) 15:43:44 that works 15:44:05 CLISP is great in a few ways... quirky in most. 15:44:13 ah right, screw that 15:44:19 quirky is not really for me 15:44:56 also I think it might be because I'm using a packaged clisp that all of the code is already compiled, I don't know if that limits access to documentation strings and the like 15:44:58 i think clisp is cute and retro 15:45:31 Fare: you do realise that Clisp is the most widely deployed free CL, right ? 15:46:06 in some embedded device or some other? 15:46:12 nope 15:46:24 in texlive 15:46:31 interesting 15:46:45 xindy uses clisp 15:46:53 is there a general consensus as to which CL is best then? 15:47:17 sbcl and ccl are probably most common around here 15:47:26 Fare: granted, xindy bundles clisp because it needs a version that compiles 15:47:27 (I ignorantly installed clisp as I assumed CL in general and clisp were the same thing) 15:47:52 oholiab, that's how we learn 15:48:08 :) 15:48:20 depending on what you're doing, I'd recommend CCL or SBCL indeed 15:48:31 CCL is speedier to compile and experiment with 15:48:40 SBCL produces speedier code, for production 15:49:03 oholiab: clisp conforms to common lisp standard, and there's nothing wrong with using it, particularly if you're just learning. i think the best way to discover "best" lisp is through personal needs, rather then popularity contest 15:49:24 at the moment, largely just futzing about with stumpwm. I doubt anything I do will ever make it to production as I doubt I'll ever work anywhere that I can safely assume anyone else will ever be a lisper 15:49:28 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-14-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:49:33 CCL has a grumpy guy who writes is guts and is very good (but I don't like his attitude with threads) 15:49:50 so most likely for screwing around with stump and writing the occasional little game 15:50:02 and just messing around with the language 15:50:10 SBCL has a rag tag team of great guys none of which fully masters a sophisticated compiler inherited from the past 15:50:30 Fare: what attitude ? 15:50:34 oholiab, have you seen Land of Lisp ? 15:50:54 phf: I ask in terms of popularity because it tends to be closely correlated with the amount of documentation and community support available 15:50:56 fe[nl]ix, he's not above sleep + poll. Yuck. 15:51:05 Fare: nurp, *googles* 15:51:23 and thinking threads are cheap 15:52:05 cheap compared to what ? 15:52:30 not 15:52:54 oholiab: well, common lisp is defined by a standard, rather then implementation. most of the libraries either have, or one step away from compatibility with sbcl,ccl,clisp,ecl 15:52:55 processing events asynchronously 15:53:07 tangooricha [~kvirc@220.160.63.18] has joined #lisp 15:53:14 phf: that's the official story, at least 15:53:33 Fare: pushing the party line :) 15:54:36 cool 15:54:59 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 15:54:59 phf: the party is not running. It's all but dissolved. 15:55:38 I mean, as a bit of context I'm coming at this from Clojure 15:55:39 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:55:41 so 15:55:48 having written uiop, I can tell there's a big gap between the party line and reality. Hopefully one I helped narrow. 15:55:56 oholiab, nice 15:56:00 I'm very aware there's probably a lot of things I'll try that I can't do 15:56:11 and I'm also still fairly new to Clojure too 15:56:13 -!- tangooricha [~kvirc@220.160.63.18] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:56:21 well, Clojure is great in many ways. CL has different strengths and weaknesses 15:56:28 I'm very curious what you find 15:56:45 don't hesitate to ask for help or report on your findings 15:56:48 hah, yeah so am I 15:56:58 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.130.108.47] has joined #lisp 15:56:58 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.130.108.47] has quit [Changing host] 15:56:58 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:56:59 Fare: that's really cool, thank you :) 15:57:25 I want to see your Cultural Learnings of Common Lisp for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of ClojureStan. 15:58:19 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:58:43 :-) 15:58:49 pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:14 sszzqq [~perlvim@112.90.197.38] has joined #lisp 16:00:32 okay, well I'm going to give sbcl a look as it's the recommended lisp for stump 16:00:38 -!- sszzqq [~perlvim@112.90.197.38] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:29 are you using SLIME? 16:02:49 naww, I'm I vi user in LISP land 16:03:19 I use vim-fireplace with clojure, I don't doubt I'll find something similar 16:03:49 there is some swank interface for vim, I dunno how good or up to date it is, but there is one 16:04:08 -!- rrs [~rrs@76.191.32.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:12 I know it's comparatively an uphill battle but I've been a vi user for an age and I'm a "sysadmin" by trade and vim is installed on everything + kitchen sink 16:04:16 slimv 16:04:23 cool, I'll have a look 16:05:28 looks like the repl itself is pretty stripped down in terms of history scrollback and stuff so I guess using SLIME is kind of an assumed thing? 16:05:34 clisp is a very good implementation, notably at the REPL. 16:05:43 the repl is pretty good, yeah 16:06:21 nowadays emacs --daemon + emacsclient is more responsive than vim 16:06:23 -!- eagleflo [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:06:54 fe[nl]ix, don't tell anyone: it's our secret weapon! 16:07:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:13 heh, I'm too embedded in vim now to change anyway 16:07:30 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 nonsense 16:07:36 i'm an idiot for spending such a long time trying to find something more "noob friendly" than emacs+slime 16:07:49 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:08:01 if i could travel back in time i'd tell my younger self to buck up and stop using sublimerepl or raw SBCL or lispide or whatever 16:08:10 I see action in slimv in the last 6 months at https://github.com/vim-scripts/slimv.vim so you'll probably find something that works 16:08:28 yeah, looks like they've added clojure support 16:08:38 I bet that's going to get in a fight with fireplace :P 16:09:01 Alex Plotnick was also demonstrating how anyone can write his own idiosyncratic user-interface to Lisp. 16:09:17 does fireplace support CL ? 16:09:19 oholiab: most of the implementation repls have hooks to make development easier, even without slime. there's a classic article on the subject http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/BJqdnd9R65ee3qDbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html 16:09:21 oholiab: function-lambda-expression returns the source. If you want a better feature, see ibcl. 16:09:29 jrghiglia [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-39-222-87.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:09:34 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 16:09:36 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ 16:10:35 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@117.83.13.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:42 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:48 Fare: I don't think so 16:11:08 -!- oleo_ [4e238170@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.35.129.112] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:11:13 Fare: I'm not *totally* sold on the way fireplace works though 16:11:29 Fare: so having a common interface for clojure and lisp would be really great 16:11:41 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:00 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:13:02 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:22 ogamita, thanks for finding that bug in with-temporary-file! 16:14:22 I'm slightly surprised my existing test cases didn't find it, since it's obvious when it hits you :-/ 16:14:29 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67-220-27-111.usiwireless.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:33 what bug ? 16:14:49 lp#1239237 16:15:05 "grumpy guy" is not too characterizing of any lisper, is it? I'm probably considered grumpy too :-) 16:15:29 hmm, everything seems to recommend fireplace over slimv for clojure :/ 16:15:32 ah well 16:15:42 Fare: no problem. I would have sent a patch, but I wasn't sure the one I had considered all the needs of asdf itself. 16:15:46 Fare: I disagree. the bug is in ccl that tries to delete the file 16:16:22 fe[nl]ix, probably 16:16:26 Yes, it depends on the implementation, but they're known to be finicky when manipulating open files. 16:16:42 I don't want YET ANOTHER argument with gbyers 16:16:46 :-) 16:17:08 For example, it depends also on the platform. On MS-Windows it would be a big no-no anyways. 16:17:19 in C, on operating systems that support it, I would delete the file while keeping an open fd 16:17:22 nothing about :if-exists nil :if-does-not-exist :create suggests that it should delete the created file 16:17:37 ASau [~user@p54AFF721.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:55 but I realize that's not a portable hypothesis 16:18:08 You could test for OS and implementations. 16:18:29 On some implementation, you could use mkstemp and make-stream-from-fd or something. 16:18:33 fe[nl]ix, a strict interpretation of with-open-file says that if you exit non-locally, it will "undo" its work, hence deleting the file it created. 16:18:45 oholiab: slime protocol changes often and in haphazard manner, so that non-emacs clients bitrot and there's a general disinterest in ongoing support. 16:19:39 ogamita, many things I could do. I wanted to make it a small portability layer. I'd like to recommend iolib for bigger things, but uiop is precisely the place where I need to minimize dependencies while maximizing portability 16:19:39 Fare: btw, Linux 3.10 added two new syscalls 16:19:56 dwim() and kill_bill() ? 16:20:11 Fare: one for allocating an inode and returning a descriptor, and one for materializing a file from a descriptor 16:20:11 kk 16:20:17 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:28 night of the undead file! 16:20:34 Fare: finally we can implement proper LMI semantics 16:20:36 I like it 16:20:38 LML 16:21:15 Fare: maximizing portability is good since it'll be ubiquituous. 16:21:24 clhs open 16:21:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_open.htm 16:22:30 -!- gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:22:44 finally we can implemente :if-exists :supersede safely 16:22:49 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:24:05 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:21 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.134.156] has joined #lisp 16:26:38 -!- ogamita [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:27:05 -!- seg [~seg@50-23-113-245.revip2.marketstreetwifi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-130-25.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:28:02 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:28:33 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:10 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:29:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:24 16:30:40 sorry, wrong window 16:31:36 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:32:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:46 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 Fare: slimv is actually pretty good 16:36:13 oholiab: evil is a better at being vim than slimv is at being slime IMO 16:37:23 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:37:38 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-14-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:37:39 jasom: be that as it may, I can't guarantee all my jobs in the future would allow me to install emacs on all the servers ;) 16:37:45 so I'll stick with vim 16:38:19 I know that in terms of my lisp learning it's shooting myself in the foot a bit 16:38:24 at my job emacs is an easier sell than sbcl, so I never ran into that problem :) 16:38:29 but the lisp stuff is pretty much a hobby 16:38:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:38:36 me too 16:38:36 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:38:41 jasom: I'm not even going to TRY and install lisp on the servers 16:38:53 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:23 *jasom* uses vim for everything except lisp and emacs+evil+slime for lisp 16:40:19 hmm, I found the combination of evil and slime non-ideal 16:40:28 like two worlds clashing 16:40:46 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-14-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:41:05 capisce: only issue I ran into is M-. in normal mode 16:41:05 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:41:39 I don't ever use the vim binding for M-. (I didn't even know it existed) so I just unbound that and all is good 16:42:47 -!- hardliner_ [~antonov@217.174.111.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:44:02 I actually find it works quite well, since vim doesn't use C-c for anything 16:44:06 jasom: I headbutted with slime+evil for a while then switched to slimv 16:44:36 but slimv isn't without flaws either 16:44:37 I like it, it's better than anything I've used thus far :P 16:45:03 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 16:45:04 though someone else who hangs out in #lisp changed the slime leader to Space IIRC and was quite happy; I just moved my Control key next to the A key 16:47:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:38 sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:02 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:48:36 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-owarsbbolxopujqr] has joined #lisp 16:49:25 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279563839.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:12 jasom: that's the right place for it 16:50:25 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.117.225] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:50:52 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:53 loke: I always thought 1986 would be a particularly sad year for emacs users 16:51:20 jasom: What happened then? Was that when the first caps-long-in-controls-location happened? 16:51:38 loke: the first IBM PC with caps-lock-in-controls-location 16:51:47 early PCs had it in the right location 16:51:58 non IBMs had caps or shift lock there though 16:52:46 I couldn't find a definitive reference for why, but most people think that it's because FORTRAN AND COBOL ARE TYPED IN LIKE THIS 16:52:56 (some would say that control next to A is a filthy sun-ism, and that the only right place for control is on both sides of spacebar. but then some like to say all kinds of things.) 16:53:07 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 16:53:07 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 16:53:24 phf: those people don't know their history then since until '86 all IBM PCs had control to the left of the A key 16:53:37 phf: I have definitely used plenty of TTY's with control in the right place 16:53:46 so it's not just something Sun came up with 16:53:57 phf: that's where I have mine, win keys are meta 16:54:14 jasom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard 16:54:23 one benefit the caps lock gave me: "as long as I'm remapping caps lock to control, I might as well swap () with []" 16:55:39 I have custom keycaps on my keyboard. The caps-lock is labelled control, and the three keys to the left of the space bar is labelled Control, Super, Meta 16:56:03 phf: pretty sure this is older: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 16:56:19 phf: and certainly predates sun 16:57:11 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279563839.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:57:35 VT100 seems to have done both: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3639 16:58:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:53 The ADM-3A (which is what gave us "~" for the unix home directory) also had ctrl next to the A 16:58:57 pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:02 jasom: i'm sure it is, but only in a superfluous way, where history has global continuity. in older lore from mit lisp community control to the left of A was seen as a unixism as represented by sun keyboards. it's certainly not the tradition from which emacs layout originated 16:59:03 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 16:59:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:01:08 It is true that this keyboard is unix/vi associated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Terminal_ADM3A.svg while the space-cadet is lisp/emacs associated 17:01:09 I used to work for Sun. I'm biased. 17:01:11 jasom: so i like to point that fact out when emacsers proudly remap caps lock to control, because it's not only historically unjustified, but also the source of the infamous emacs pinky 17:01:56 phf: what finger do you use for control and meta on the space-cadet? 17:02:48 jasom: you chord, so you always use your thumb 17:03:12 phf: so easier on the pinky, tougher on the wrists? 17:04:37 jasom: wrists are not involved in chording, the movement comes from the shoulder, same as in piano 17:05:37 Wikipedia's article on the ADM3A suggests that it was also a leader in control-in-the-right-place movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A 17:05:49 jasom: unless you're using something like kinesis, where you don't have to move your arms at all, since the thumb is resting on all the modifiers 17:05:53 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:05:53 I have used the adm3a, and it's a very nice piece of hardware. 17:06:05 eudoxia, if you're interested in making this .so thing happen, it's easier than ever, with lib-op, monolithic-dll-op, etc. 17:06:47 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:10:11 nilsi_ [~nilsi@117.83.13.133] has joined #lisp 17:10:43 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 17:11:15 Fare: my idea for "bundling" was related more to how I understand Ruby's Bundler works - it would essentially configure ASDF with specific packages and let tools like cl-launch etc. go further 17:11:35 I don't know Ruby's bundler 17:12:20 but (1) asdf can now walk your build, collect all the .o's in a system into a .a, and link all these .a's into a common .a or .so 17:12:44 (2) cl-launch could package this .so and bundle it with your image, etc. 17:12:49 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.43] has joined #lisp 17:13:07 Fare: Yes, but I am totally not talking about .so whatsoever 17:13:39 (3) asdf has hooks before your dump / restore an image, that could (a) flush out any loaded .so before dump (b) locate the .so early after restore and replace it with a good one. 17:13:48 what are you talking about, then? 17:14:04 if you don't have a .so, cl-launch can already dump an executable 17:14:32 More like a way to ensure reproducible builds etc. by using a dependency manifest that would be use to configure ASDF so that for example you can keep using QL for normal work, but for example this project has specific versions pinned etc. 17:14:32 and so can asdf:program-op, nowadays 17:14:43 oh, oh 17:14:48 what you want is git 17:15:10 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279563839.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:11 and git module 17:15:33 Fare: git submodules are remarkably annoying, which leads to at least 2 or three systems that replace them... 17:15:54 (and that's not including systems that completely ignore it but implement such behaviour) 17:16:09 git submodules work for exacly one case: where you have an external dependency that you will never personally be working on 17:16:37 (and you need it pinned to a specific revision) 17:16:44 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 17:16:53 I was thinking more of a "project-local" ASDF configurations with possible (simplistic) script to get the deps (with QL support) 17:17:24 p_l: I just build with --no-userinit and setup my registry manually 17:17:24 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-35-120.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:37 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:17:58 jasom: well, this is just an idea to automate such build 17:18:10 (comes from my recent adventures in DevOps) 17:18:16 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 17:18:25 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279563839.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:18:30 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 17:18:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 17:18:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:18:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:55 and just check the deps into source-control if you want to pin them 17:19:05 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 17:19:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 17:19:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:19:48 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 17:23:22 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:23:22 -!- Wukix` [~user@173-228-55-74.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:31 Wukix` [~user@173-228-55-74.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:21 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:29:18 actually, the more I think about it, the better I like that; put all deps in a single directory that is under source control and add that to the source registry 17:29:38 then it's reproducable and trivial to build 17:30:58 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-fbdnczfhfnzqmohp] has joined #lisp 17:31:33 chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:35:45 jasom: yup 17:37:31 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:08 jasom: this is more of a manifest that can be used to do so 17:39:45 p_l: that seems unneccessarily complicated 17:40:53 unless you want to separate dependency changes from your project's changes 17:41:28 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:46 p_l: so the manifest isn't inside your project? 17:42:12 this way you get single file which will show up in changes if you modify just the version of the deps. If you're as some call it "vendoring" deps, then you'd have them in repo 17:42:21 anyway, brb, got a meeting which I am already late for 17:42:26 k 17:45:05 sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:27 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:06 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 17:46:47 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:51:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-14-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:01 ... my mistake, the meeting is tomorrow. Curse you, early meeting reminders! 17:53:52 haha 17:53:59 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:10 well anyway, if you use something like git submodules or svn externals, you get a single manifest 17:54:43 if you just throw it all in there, the commit messages would be the same, but the list of files-changed is longer; is that what you are worried about? 17:56:01 eagleflo [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has joined #lisp 17:56:26 In any event getting a directory with all of yourd 3rd party deps in it is solved in many ways by many SCM systems, and having that is sufficient for asdf to work automatically 17:57:00 so assuming you're using SCM, I don't see the advantage of reimplementing it. 17:57:55 on the other hand I suck at DevOps so I'm probably wrong 18:00:14 jasom: afaik git submodules don't play nice with tracking what happens when, let's say, you clone a repository 18:00:28 dunno about SVN externals, I avoid SVN "religiously" 18:00:47 as for devops etc. - the idea came to after working with Chef's Berkshelf et al 18:01:46 p_l: git submodules basically let you run a single command to checkout a specific revision of a specific repository in a subdirectory of your repo 18:01:55 and that's revision, not branch 18:02:11 so they are all in detached head state 18:02:54 I only have one project that uses them, and I added a single command to the build script to make sure they are up-to-date before building 18:04:27 jasom: with Berkshelf, I can specify "sites" which contain cookbooks (would fit well with QL distros), specify version (of release), as well as tell it to download said cookbook from specified SCM repo (with tags etc.) 18:04:33 jasom: what if such external repository goes down? 18:05:22 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:05:49 Have mirrors? 18:08:52 stassats: keep the external repository mirrored locally and use the local mirror? 18:09:13 p_l: so use Berkshelf to build your lisp apps? 18:09:40 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574ed7b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:07 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10:57 jasom: i assumed you want to reproduce it easily 18:11:24 gzg [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 stassats: people building it will be pulling from repository X on server Y. If you have mirrors of all submodules on server Y then if they can pull from X they can update their submodules 18:12:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:37 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:13:50 jasom: was thinking of something similar - Berkshelf is rather... specialized 18:14:03 so, all sub-modules let you do is to avoid typing git pull three times? 18:14:11 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:14:24 -!- ZabaQ [~ZabaQ@86.63.2.14] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian - www.trillian.im ~] 18:14:33 stassats: well they are versioned 18:14:38 sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-62.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:15:08 stassats: it saves you from writing a versioned shell script that runs git pull three times 18:15:48 it also provides a very simplisitic way to allow nesting of git repositories 18:16:07 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:24 more advanced ways are provided with e.g. git subtree 18:20:31 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:23:51 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:36 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Quit: Emacs must have died] 18:34:01 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 18:36:46 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:38:06 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:38:52 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:41:03 rrs [~rrs@76.191.32.18] has joined #lisp 18:41:20 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:42 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:46:35 Fare: is that .so load/unload functionality for asdf documented somewhere? 18:48:54 hi 18:48:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:14 phf: the loading / unloading is not currently done by asdf. 18:49:28 you'll have to modify CFFI so it adds proper hooks 18:50:53 jozefg [a05e2f13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.94.47.19] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 Hi all 18:51:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:53:03 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:32 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:55:27 dmiles [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:58:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:00:44 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:38 phf: are you interested in hacking cffi and asdf to make it all work together? If so, I can provide guidance 19:08:18 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 dtw, eudoxia, this offer extends to you, too 19:08:58 I'm just unwilling to spend the time debugging the thing at this point 19:10:03 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 19:10:16 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-69-18-11.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:12:50 Fare: i almost exclusively use ccl and its ffi system, so not at this time :) 19:13:27 the same idea can work with ccl's ffi system 19:14:04 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:14:08 -!- rrs [~rrs@76.191.32.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:44 the basic idea is: (1) register hooks early on in the build, (2) have the pre-dump-image-hook unload all .so's (3) have the post-image-restart-hook reload the .so from a path computed using whatever combinations of calls to uiop:getenv and uiop:lisp-implementation-directory or whatelse, as available 19:17:54 Wonderful idea, but my experience is that unloading some .so's causes the C standard library to be unloaded, with unfortunate results. 19:18:04 (subpathname (truename "/proc/self/executable") "../lib/mylib.so") 19:18:22 Would love this to be automatic, though 19:18:26 wws: ok, so "all that were not loaded at the time the hook was registered" 19:18:57 see? Exactly why I don't want to be the one debugging it 19:18:58 Unfortunately, I don't remember an example 19:19:25 But Truledger's app saving code does basically that 19:19:29 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 19:19:33 or "all that are registered by (c)ffi for automatic handling" 19:19:49 that's a good idea 19:20:07 wws: I didn't recognize you with that nick until you mentioned truledger! 19:20:34 Heh. My ancient initials before I started using billstclair 19:20:42 I'm still wws@clozure.com 19:21:05 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:10 -!- wws is now known as billstclair 19:21:13 -!- jozefg [a05e2f13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.160.94.47.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:21:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-19-175.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:21:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:21:41 Must have lost my IRC connection. I usually use billstclair on freenode 19:22:22 the getenv might use (format nil "~:@(~A~)_DIRECTORY" *application-name*) or some such 19:22:45 also those global initializers (FooInit(); for libfoo) need to be accommodated somehow 19:23:00 (or ... (subpathname* ...) ..) comes to mind for trying multiple paths 19:23:16 phf: the post-image-restart-hook can do that for you 19:23:34 just have your libraries register proper hooks 19:24:08 have a separate registration system for .so's -- and have asdf control that when it's doing the build 19:24:22 often it's better to deliver a single .so with your application 19:24:46 so, keep all the .o's and .a's and relink them for the entire application 19:25:08 using asdf:dll-op (that is untested, therefore probably broken) 19:25:41 (but it might actually work, for all I know, and the similar program-op works on ecl) 19:27:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:28:29 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:29:59 therefore, it is NOT ok for lisp code to directly call dlopen; it should go through an abstraction layer that ensures that registered dynlib dependencies are present regardless of the mechanism used. 19:30:17 phf: are you a taker? 19:30:25 dtw? 19:30:29 eudoxia is gone. 19:31:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:22 Fare: so what's the final goal? various system specific solutions that'll make dll-op load/unload so's through the existing hook mechanism? 19:33:44 *dll-op built libraries rather 19:34:29 the goal is to extend asdf and/or cffi and/or cl-launch so that you can easily write a .asd file and have your entire system with all dependencies delivered as a single executable + accompanying .so 19:34:54 or executable + image + so, if the implementation requires it 19:35:07 or executable all statically linked, if the implementation supports it 19:35:30 (I think at least cmucl, ecl and probably clisp support that) 19:36:16 Fare: I have some prototype patch implementing what I want, rather crude but I hope it will allow you to decide in which form you want to accept the ideas 19:36:30 so depending on the lisp compiler, you have one, two or three files max to distribute as your application (e.g. in a zip file or rpm). 19:36:31 I should maybe integrate that in pgloader and make some tests now 19:36:49 dim: talking about qmynd, I suppose 19:36:52 is (coerce '(a b c) 'list) a noop? 19:36:56 yeah I an 19:37:07 dim: dunno, might be a copy-list 19:37:21 dim: so not a no-op as far as identities go 19:37:23 "If object is already of type result-type, the object itself is returned, regardless of whether it would have been possible in general to coerce an object of some other type to result-type." apparently 19:37:38 If object is already of type result-type, the object itself is returned, regardless of whether it would have been possible in general to coerce an object of some other type to result-type. 19:37:48 jasom: you're late 19:37:49 maybe I did worry for no reason then 19:38:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@61.149.217.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:35 dim: you can always disassemble 19:38:45 reassembling is hard 19:38:52 on all implementations? 19:39:00 well I'd rather ask and/or read the standard 19:39:04 dim: just because it returns the same object doesn't mean it's a nop 19:39:15 it could take a long time type checking, and then return the same object 19:39:16 never disassemble a computer past midnight on a friday, I had as a rule in France. 19:39:42 jasom: afraid of dragons out of your nose? 19:40:11 Fare: well, you already gave enough answers to allow me to solve my problem. i'll do that, and see if i can produce a general solution out of that 19:41:47 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:42:00 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:21 phf: wonderful 19:42:29 keep me updated 19:42:34 kk 19:42:40 the asdf-devel mailing-list is a good place for general discussion 19:42:46 Fare: huh? 19:42:55 you can ping me via google chat and/or hangout if I'm not on irc 19:43:00 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 19:43:25 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67-220-27-111.usiwireless.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 19:43:25 gemelen [~gemelen@saule.gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:23 phf: I'd suggest you focus on making it work on just one (or two) implementations, say CCL and SBCL 19:47:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:48:46 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:51 Fare: here's what I wanted: https://github.com/dimitri/qmynd/commit/d5f3ddff53f02972cc8d1db63904228cfd0b39a6 19:48:56 Quare [~Q@174.Red-83-42-44.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has joined #lisp 19:50:48 isn't parse-resultset-row a big function to declaim inline? 19:51:27 Fare: what version of asdf started including uiop? 19:52:01 "asdf 3" which was first pre-released as 2.27 on February 1st 19:52:02 gabnet [~gabnet@182.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:09 there's a single call point 19:52:19 that I saw anyway 19:52:36 although the rename to uiop (from asdf-driver) was in 2.31.9 on March 3rd. 19:52:36 it's the inner loop function, too, called for each row of the result set 19:52:43 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-fbdnczfhfnzqmohp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:52:49 maybe that's just uncalled for, but well 19:53:15 will #+asdf3(uiop:quit) always work then? 19:53:33 it's big enough that saving on a function call might not overcome the space waste and therefore cache misses. 19:53:45 jasom: in practice, yes 19:54:16 if you're extra cautious about compatibility, #+asdf3 (asdf/driver:quit) 19:54:18 That's probably the best solution for me then; anyone on a new enough sbcl to have (sb-ext:quit) warn should be able to use asdf3 19:54:30 seems not related to my work here, but apparently qmynd fails to parse the result of a query such as SELECT astext(loc) FROM geo; with the loc column being of type POINT 19:54:50 sbcl went directly from 2.26 to 3.0.2, so I wouldn't worry about that with sbcl 19:55:02 Fare: mmm, it could easily be specialized tho 19:55:15 if that's the only thing you don't like I'll fix that ;-) 19:56:12 dim: the indentation looks weird. Artefact of diff? wrong mix of tabs and non-tabs? 19:56:17 Man, pathnames. 19:56:57 Fare: Emacs did that I guess, I didn't set anything special here 19:57:17 sellout-: trying to invoke Cthulhu and other horrors? 19:57:35 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b5942.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 marioxcc_ [~user@189.251.154.42] has joined #lisp 19:58:14 hello 19:58:19 Fare: Trying to convert a logical pathname to a filename  without using truename, since the file doesnt exist yet. 19:58:32 what GTK binding would you recommend? 19:58:40 there are serveral 19:58:52 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@saule.gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 19:59:13 gemelen [~gemelen@saule.gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:41 sellout: you got me at "logical pathname" 19:59:47 why such an unkempt horror? 20:00:06 maybe you should instead salvage qpath from the quux snapshot 20:00:44 Backtrace: 0: (QMYND-IMPL::READ-WIRE-PACKET # :EXPECTED-SEQUENCE-ID 1) 20:00:53 maybe I won't even be able to use qmynd actually 20:00:58 :-( 20:01:00 why not? 20:01:02 Fare: Yeah, I can probably ditch the logical pathname  just trying to not touch more of this code that I didnt write than I have to. 20:01:20 logical pathnames are a Bad Idea (tm) 20:01:24 I don't think I'll be able to find the time to fix the query 20:01:30 :-( 20:01:35 sorry, to fix the protocol handling of qmynd 20:01:36 what's broken? 20:01:58 if you write on qitab-devel, asedeno might help you 20:01:59 SELECT astext(loc) FROM geo; 20:02:10 will try that on Friday then 20:02:33 loc in the query is a POINT column, and that's a very weird thing 20:02:41 (in mysql at least) 20:02:42 cmm [~cmm@109.66.106.171] has joined #lisp 20:03:35 mmm, even SELECT loc FROM geo; is broken 20:04:10 feels like opening the bug surprise box 20:04:27 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:04:40 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:36 -!- benny 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22:10:58 antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 22:11:39 anna_ [~wde@46-198-19-165.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #lisp 22:12:59 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:37 scroy [~user@unaffiliated/scroy] has joined #lisp 22:14:38 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.134.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:14 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:15:22 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:54 there are 12 different definitions of a function named "split-string" in the systems I have installed 22:17:25 jasom: which ones ? 22:18:58 asdf drakma sbcl ccl ecl (I guess those aren't technically systems) my patch I'm preparing for ltk, stumpwm, and a one-off script I didn't know was still on my hard drive 22:19:13 and yes, sbcl has one that is different from the included asdf 22:20:34 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-147-109-200.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:10 XE2, rutils (though that's probably a reuse of one from somewhere else) 22:21:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:21:32 I don't see the sbcl one, in apropos, anyway. 22:21:35 which is only 11; the 12th was me double counting asdf.lisp and uiop 22:22:10 there is however SB-IMPL::SPLIT-AT-SLASHES-AND-BACKSLASHES which is pretty well naed 22:22:19 Bike: in ucd.lisp 22:22:37 tools-for-build/ucd.lisp 22:23:03 oh, so not in an image. 22:23:07 no 22:25:03 oh. looks like swank-abcl.lisp has one too 22:25:35 and clfswm 22:25:44 duggiefresh [~quassel@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:49 and cl-data-format-validation 22:29:37 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.106.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:44 cmm [~cmm@109.66.106.171] has joined #lisp 22:29:59 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:07 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.240.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:58 harish [~harish@175.156.240.60] has joined #lisp 22:33:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-147-109-200.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:04 jasom: that's why split-sequence has been invented :-) 22:34:17 -!- JulianGindi [~textual@c-69-251-73-33.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:34:28 JulianGindi [~textual@c-69-251-73-33.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:46 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:36:06 -!- JulianGindi [~textual@c-69-251-73-33.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.106.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:49 JulianGindi [~textual@c-69-251-73-33.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:04 SecretFire [~nomercy12@c-24-21-47-171.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:12 cmm [~cmm@109.66.106.171] has joined #lisp 22:39:15 -!- SecretFire [~nomercy12@c-24-21-47-171.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] 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