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[kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:43:43 -!- xk05 [~xk05@30.176-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:44:14 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-098-064-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:46:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:16 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@pc-212-51-221-162.p.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:50:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:51:14 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:28 hi 07:52:10 hello 07:52:23 H4ns: how much data did you convert in 4:35, by the way (how many rows, how many bytes?) 07:54:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.111] has joined #lisp 07:54:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.111] has quit [Changing host] 07:54:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:56:05 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:02:01 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:32 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xrsmzfzasscggoaa] has joined #lisp 08:09:49 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 08:11:41 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:13:01 alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:13:23 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@173.67.109.81] has joined #lisp 08:15:33 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:19:04 -!- mikeit [~mikeit@net-37-116-147-184.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:19:11 -!- tolk [~user@host175.190-138-194.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:18 mikeit [~mikeit@net-37-116-147-184.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 08:21:04 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:06 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 08:23:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:24:02 dim: what would be a good way to find out? 08:24:16 dim: (i can only look at the numbers later, the stuff is on my home machine) 08:24:38 In PostgreSQL \dl+ for the bytes, and for the rows, pgloader should have printed a summary containing that information 08:24:49 we'll know later then 08:24:53 i'll look at it later. 08:25:17 thanks1 08:25:26 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:30 lazy finger day today again? c'mon fingers! 08:25:36 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@50.14.84.76] has joined #lisp 08:26:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:57 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 08:26:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] 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#lisp 11:05:17 -!- ludocode [~quassel@184.175.13.201] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:05:19 -!- prip [~foo@host198-132-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:06:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:02 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-135-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:49 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-195-14-206-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:32 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.182.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:12:51 BrianRice` [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:48 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13:48 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 11:14:09 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:17:22 prip [~foo@95.237.24.170] has joined #lisp 11:17:52 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:18:49 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:56 -!- sm0ke [~sm0ke@122.166.231.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:19 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:20:20 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:20:24 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:52 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:21:01 sm0ke [~sm0ke@122.166.231.244] has joined #lisp 11:26:36 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@50.14.84.76] has joined #lisp 11:27:37 p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has joined #lisp 11:30:22 gabmint [~gabmint@84.161.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:30:42 hello 11:30:57 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 11:31:18 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@50.14.84.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:32:12 I just typed (- 550 546.38) into my clisp repl (in linux mint) and got 3.619995 (sic). How do you explain that? Thanks 11:32:20 ogamita [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:34:01 gabmint: For some reason, people discover that decimal fractions are not necessarily stored exactly only when the start using Lisp. 11:34:22 gabmint: I blame the teachers of other programming languages for this situations. 11:35:29 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:01 beach: it also happens in javascript 11:36:04 Well, them, and the fact that lisp has a REPL, which displays representations of the raw data, while in other programming languages usually you have to go thru the equivalent of format ~F. 11:36:27 willyfrog: That's good I guess. 11:37:03 ogamita: Still, this means that the issue has never been brought up in typical courses. 11:37:13 gabmint: for a bit of perspective, try (- 550d0 546.38d0) and (- 550s0 546.38s0). 11:37:18 gabmint: So, 546.38 can not be stored exactly in the binary floating-point representation used by our computers today, which is why you see a slight difference from what it would have been if computers used decimal arithmetic. 11:37:32 beach: unless you are learning to program, floating point representation can be a pita if you don't know about it 11:38:05 willyfrog: I agree. 11:38:11 minion: tell gabmint about goldberg 11:38:11 gabmint: look at goldberg: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic. http://docs.sun.com/source/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 11:38:26 That said, the problem has been explained a lot of times in movies. Eg. in "Office Space". 11:38:53 minion: What's your job here? 11:38:53 what would a bot like me know about my job here ? 11:39:04 gabmint: All clear? 11:39:29 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:40:08 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:45 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:40:50 Munksgaard [~philip@130.225.178.9] has joined #lisp 11:41:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:29 So, trivial-garbage is the answer for FFI + GC, uh? So many sleepless nights... 11:44:15 didi: don't rely on the GC for that 11:44:20 seriously 11:44:36 unless you have no other choice 11:44:49 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 11:44:55 ARGH! No... you are breaking my heart... 11:45:11 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.218.85] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 having the GC look after foreign resources is not a very good idea, but is helpful during development. IMO, anyway. 11:45:50 fe[nl]ix: Do you have other idea for heap alloced objects? 11:46:06 thanks for your answers 11:46:47 prxq: I'm working on replacing the MRI GC and was bitten by that 11:47:01 in spite of that lack of capabilities of modern computers, my calculator graphical app could perform that substraction flawlessly ... in the same comuter 11:47:09 prxq: MRI relies on finalizers to flush buffers and close file descriptors 11:47:22 prxq: so the whole test suite failed 11:47:29 what is MRI? 11:47:35 *computer 11:47:38 the official Ruby 11:47:39 gabmint: What's the model of your calculator? 11:47:39 gabmint: calculators cheat 11:47:43 arnas [faci@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:48:09 the clisp repl should cheat also :) 11:48:16 a repl is a programmer's tool 11:48:20 a calculator is for doing calculation 11:48:26  tell me lies  11:48:33 you don't really have any business programming if you want your tools to lie to you 11:48:35 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@50.14.84.76] has joined #lisp 11:48:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:00 Krystof: A bit dramatic, don't you think? 11:49:19 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:49:22 gabmint: one could argue that floats should be base 10 (which is the issue here). But that would imply slower floating point arithmetic. 11:49:28 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:49:37 Ah yes. I must have learned about that with the Ti-57. 11:49:40 I'm OK with that 11:49:46 I'm not in a hurry :) 11:50:05 It was clearly written in the manual and advertisements of the Ti-57, that it computed with 10 decimal places, while displaying only 8, to do a rounding. 11:50:05 gabmint: the good news is that you can implement base-10 floating point numbers all by yourself 11:50:19 gabmint: don't you read the manual of your pocket calculator? 11:50:26 using the marvellous tool we call a "programming environment", which allows you to make complicated things out of simpler things 11:50:29 gee really? 11:50:36 Of course. 11:50:45 how? please tell me 11:51:09 read about reader macros. 11:51:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:51:17 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:16 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@50.14.84.76] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52:24 gabmint: if you're serious, start by reading the Goldberg paper which you've already been referred to 11:52:29 prxq: actually, in Cobol and in Java, you can work with decimal numbers. (Decimal class in java). 11:52:32 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 11:52:32 Anyway, using trivial-garbage is the best way I can think of not having memory leaks with heap allocated objects from library. Specially with those how like to mimic OO so they malloc a lot. 11:52:46 s/library/libraries 11:53:26 gee 11:53:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:53:42 I'm a liberal arts professional 11:53:52 I'm just a lisp-curious :) 11:54:04 I thought it was just a simple command 11:54:14 and now you know it isn't! That's learning for you 11:54:18 thanks anyway for all of your answers 11:54:21 and there is more learning to be done 11:54:38 good luck 11:54:48 "there is more learning to be done", gee, I didn't know that 11:54:56 I'm 39 years old and did not know that 11:55:03 thank you very much 11:55:28 sarcasm will get you far 11:55:29 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:56:10 sorry but the "there is more learning to be done" sounded a little arrogant, but I'm sure it's just me 11:57:24 Sounds more like plain fact to me. 11:58:30 it is a plain fact 11:58:41 can't argue with that 11:59:28 thing is: do I really need to be reminded that (that plain fact) in this context? 11:59:50 It can't hurt, so I don't get why you got offended. 11:59:57 Jesus 12:00:00 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:00:01 I am not offended 12:00:11 I am just explaining my postings :) 12:01:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:16 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 12:03:36 -!- gabmint [~gabmint@84.161.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:07:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:08:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:09 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:31 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 12:13:06 who wants to become a maintainer of a CL implementation? 12:13:21 which one is on offer? :) 12:13:22 you 12:13:27 mal____: ECL 12:13:35 bitonic [~user@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 really ? 12:13:53 -!- ogamita [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:59 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:59 *Xach* must blog about it 12:14:03 fe[nl]ix: indeed 12:14:14 ogamita`` [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:14:31 where ? 12:14:37 ecls-list 12:14:52 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:15:18 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:15:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-11-237.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:31 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.ecl.general/10264 12:18:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:19:10 stassats: How does CommonQT handle foreign memory? 12:19:19 didi: with care 12:19:33 Hehe. 12:19:43 :^P 12:20:45 stassats: `with-objects' guard the memory? 12:21:47 qt has its own memory management for QObject things, where when you destroy the parent, the children are freed 12:22:17 but for non-QObject things, which are usually copied by Qt, you need with-objects 12:23:14 you can use with-objects for qobject too, but there's no need (and not possible) to use it for every allocation 12:23:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:56 stassats: By the by, I noticed that the CommonQT build process breaks on systems with Qt4 and Qt5 installed, as qmake is renamed to qmake-qt4 and qmake for Qt5 doesn't work for CommonQT. Not sure if you're already aware of this, but I thought I'd mention it. 12:25:09 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:25:32 i've heard of it, by i don't care to fix it 12:25:41 Alright. 12:26:18 eventually when smoke build properly with Qt5, this won't even matter 12:26:39 but so far, even though their commits suggest it supports Qt5, i was unable to build it 12:27:45 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.136.32] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:28:18 and about ECL, what about a group of maintainers? it seems like one person can't always pay full attention to a project 12:28:58 SBCL always had several people active at different times, making the development continuous 12:30:20 uzo1 [~uzo@adsl-108-73-161-98.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:37 ECL is too variable 12:31:07 it has a much too high a number of compile-time optional features 12:31:22 Well, Juan is pretty constant for ECLS. 12:31:23 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:31:24 stassats: I wish I had enough time and experience to maintain a CL implementation, but unfortunately... 12:31:39 time; experience can be gained. 12:31:44 -!- ogamita`` is now known as ogamita 12:31:56 ogamita: but you need time to get one. Infinite loop. 12:32:24 No, it reduces to time. everything reduces to time. 12:32:36 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.80] has joined #lisp 12:33:06 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:21 -!- uzo2 [~uzo@adsl-99-110-97-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:24 But experience also decreases amount of time needed to do certain things so it increases amount of free time. 12:33:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:35 -!- rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.165.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:47 A little yes. 12:34:26 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:34:31 But what I do know for sure is that everything reduces to amount of available tea. 12:34:46 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-215-99.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:35:19 uzo2 [~uzo@adsl-99-110-98-127.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:26 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:35:59 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 12:36:12 ehu` [~ehu@109.38.83.119] has joined #lisp 12:36:20 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 12:36:47 stassats: I see. I'm having a deja vu about us having this discussion before. I think GObject has the same behavior as QObject WRT parents. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons, I think, the Racket GUI library requires that buttons, labels and etc to declare its parent at creation time. 12:37:05 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0008.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: BBL] 12:37:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:37:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:37:44 didi: qt does that automatically 12:38:06 so, in theory, you can use gc for everything 12:38:46 -!- uzo1 [~uzo@adsl-108-73-161-98.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:42:35 stassats: Oh, OK. That's nicer than GObject then, where the memory management is done using reference counters. 12:44:21 didi: I think that's the same with Qt, but Qt does crazy C++ preprocessor magic ;) 12:45:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:34 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 12:45:40 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.238] has joined #lisp 12:49:15 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:00 p_l: Heh. I can't even imagine this black sorcery. 12:54:25 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-126.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:55:07 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:55:49 scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:35 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130902133717]] 12:59:48 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:08 oudeis [~oudeis@77.127.231.24] has joined #lisp 13:00:29 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:01:10 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-82-120.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 13:01:47 `fogus [~fogus@70.182.191.151] has joined #lisp 13:02:17 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-90-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:02:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-90-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:35 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@77.127.231.24] has quit [Client Quit] 13:06:13 -!- oleo_ [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:11:23 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:38 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 13:15:08 -!- prip [~foo@95.237.24.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:47 -!- sm0ke [~sm0ke@122.166.231.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:15:52 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:16:15 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:21:15 sz0 [~textual@92.44.62.223] has joined #lisp 13:23:10 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 13:24:26 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:25:07 -!- loke_erc [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:1c15:a351:35:d5e7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:11 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:23 -!- apfel [~apfel@zs1-mgmt.fh-landshut.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:27:33 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:42 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@209.Red-80-39-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 13:32:05 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:32:16 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:32:22 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 13:32:29 p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 -!- bitonic [~user@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:54 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 13:34:05 prip [~foo@95.237.24.170] has joined #lisp 13:34:32 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:49 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 13:35:23 bitonic [~user@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:35:27 Is it possible to somehow save all return values of expression in PROG1 without using dirty tricks like MULTIPLE-VALUE-LIST? 13:35:59 multiple-value-prog1? 13:36:32 Oh, yeah, that's it. Thanks. 13:36:51 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-200-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:57 milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 13:41:13 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:44 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:43:33 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-147-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:51 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:47:48 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c1fw235.constantcontact.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:25 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:49:38 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@c1fw228.constantcontact.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:54 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:50:00 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9C0B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:02 harish_ [~harish@175.156.117.104] has joined #lisp 13:51:43 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-090.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:15 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c1fw235.constantcontact.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:56:12 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:56:36 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-188-101.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:01 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:06:57 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:08:58 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:10 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:57 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:33 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-228-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:51 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-228-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:26:58 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:33 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:20 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD63EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 14:29:00 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 14:31:40 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:47 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:35:45 hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:48 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:38 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:14 -!- scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:56 -!- jarm [~jarm@189.146.128.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:39:02 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:36 Code_Man [~Adolf-Cha@185-206.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:44:12 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-090.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:28 -!- bitonic [~user@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:24 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@130.225.178.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:47:30 -!- sz0 [~textual@92.44.62.223] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 14:51:30 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:35 How do I define a type using a constant list like: (defconstant +bonds+ '(:single :double :triple)) 14:52:17 oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.136.32] has joined #lisp 14:52:33 you'll gonna have a bad time with constants like this, since they defconstant compares with EQL 14:52:44 (defstruct connector (connection nil `(or (member nil :dot) (member ,@+bonds+)))) 14:53:25 but to define a type (deftype bond () `(member ,@+bonds+)) 14:53:36 What if I use the back-quote and splice it in as above? 14:53:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-82-120.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:53:44 Oh yeah - deftype - I forgot about that. 14:53:50 type is not evaluated in defstruct 14:53:50 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:10 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-127-200.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 So I should use (deftype bond (x) (member x '(:single :double :triple))) 14:55:42 no 14:55:48 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:54 (deftype bond () '(member (:single :double :triple))) 14:56:09 Oh, it's not a function - right. 14:56:13 scratch parenthesis 14:56:19 (deftype bond () '(member :single :double :triple)) 14:56:22 Right. 14:56:33 or (deftype bond () '(member :single :double :triple :james)) 14:57:08 (deftype bond () '(member :single :double :triple)) 14:57:31 (deftype connector () `(or (member nil :dot) ,bond)) ??? 14:57:45 Is that last one ok? 14:57:50 (or (member nil :dot) bond)? 14:57:58 no, what Bike said 14:58:07 Ok, that's more convenient 14:58:16 you don't need to unquote anything (especially since there's no "bond" variable in scope) 14:58:26 And then (defstruct connector (connection nil connector)) 14:58:34 no! :type connector 14:58:43 Gah! - right 14:59:13 coincidentally, clhs has (defstruct person (name 007 :type string)) (make-person :name "James") as an example 14:59:43 (defstruct (connection nil :type connector)) 15:00:04 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:10 Types are nice. 15:00:26 don't forget that defstruct defines a type too 15:00:53 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@74.212.183.186] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:01:09 having both and connector may be confusing 15:01:16 Wow, deftype is cool thing. I should definitely play with it some day. 15:01:22 I'll clean up the names. 15:01:31 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:01:35 maybe you can have the type named connection? 15:02:16 and use it for (deftype connection () '(or (member :french :james) bond)) 15:03:27 Is there an earmuff convention for types? Like *...* or +...+? 15:03:34 no 15:03:54 peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:55 there's only one kind of type, you can't mistake it with anything else 15:04:20 That's interesting - what do you mean by that? 15:04:33 there's no special lexical or constant types 15:04:43 Do you mean we use *...* and +...+ because there are different kinds of variable names? 15:04:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.212.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:05:00 what else would it be used for? 15:05:01 I see. 15:05:29 You had me with "there's only one kind of type, ..." 15:07:08 This parser is really coming together now - it's so pretty. 15:07:08 different types are defined in different manners, but there's no change of semantics if you use one or another 15:08:17 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:08:29 Is (member t 0 1 2 3 4 5) a reasonable type? 15:09:08 you may want to know that (deftype prime () `(satisfies primep)) is exteremly slow, but the semantics are still the same as if it was (deftype even () `(satisfies evenp)) 15:09:25 drmeister: (or (eql t) (integer 0 5)) may be better 15:09:51 gabmint [~gabmint@84.161.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:09:58 I should use (eql t) rather than (eq t)? 15:09:58 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:05 you can't use (eq t) 15:10:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:19 (there isn't such thing) 15:10:19 Really? Why not? 15:10:29 -!- gabmint [~gabmint@84.161.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 15:10:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:11:30 How about (deftype chirality () (member nil clockwise counter-clockwise)) 15:11:45 should be '(member nil clockwise counter-clockwise), but yes 15:12:11 and using keyword symbols is better for interoperability between packages 15:14:05 Got it - I'm switching them all to keywords 15:17:15 I don't quite get one thing: if type A "overlaps" type B, object is always both of type A and of type B? 15:17:30 I haven't really explored types yet - I got all that code (predlib.lsp) from the ECL Common Lisp source tree. 15:17:39 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-165-73.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 15:18:54 hitecnologys: no 15:19:12 stassats: how is type selected then? 15:19:21 selected for what? 15:19:24 by what? 15:20:10 By compiler, I suppose. For being type of that object. 15:20:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:21:01 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:04 If both type A and type B are acceptable in some case, what is type of this object then? 15:21:22 object can have only one actual type 15:21:29 that type can be a subtype of some other type 15:23:14 tolk [~user@host175.190-138-194.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:23:48 drmeister: there can't be an EQ type specifier because that wouldn't make sense. 15:24:17 hitecnologys: You might be better off if you abandon the idea that an object "is of a particular type". 15:24:22 drmeister: implementations are allowed to copy integers and characters when passing them as parameter. Therefore any integer or character value would be not EQ to the one used in the type! 15:24:38 drmeister: therefore a type defined with EQ would reduce to NIL, the type with no values. 15:24:46 hitecnologys: Instead you might think of a type as a set of objects. 15:24:49 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:00 hitecnologys: So you can ask whether an object is of that particular type. 15:25:23 hitecnologys: The only exception to this reasoning is TYPE-OF 15:25:39 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 ogamita: Ok, I see that. 15:25:40 which returns some canonical type for the object. 15:26:05 beach: so, type is set of values and not set of values at the same time? 15:26:24 ? 15:26:40 hitecnologys: I think the best way of thinking about a type is as a set of objects. 15:27:07 hitecnologys: So you can ask whether an object is of that particular type (TYPEP). 15:27:25 The typical type being (member a b c) 15:27:28 beach: but how is that possible? Where is this set stored? 15:27:37 in memory 15:27:56 (deftype boolean () '(member t nil)) (deftype cons () `(member ,@all-the-possible-cons-cells)) 15:27:57 Is there a way to define a structure slot as having a type (say: (member :sp3 :sp2 :sp)) but be initialized as UNBOUND? 15:28:08 (deftype integer () `(member ,@all-the-possible-integers)) 15:28:13 drmeister: you can't have unbound slots 15:28:13 hitecnologys: It is only stored explicitly if your type is described as (MEMBER obj1 obj2 obj3 ...) 15:28:21 stassats: for each object/symbol/whatever? 15:28:28 hitecnologys: for each type 15:28:32 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:28:46 drmeister: but for objects, you could indeed have unbound slots of a declared type. 15:28:47 as i said, an object itself only has a single type 15:28:50 and class 15:28:50 CLOS objects I mean. 15:29:16 I tend to avoid unbound slots. They're a bitch to use. 15:29:25 hitecnologys: In other cases it is stored as a "type specifier" 15:29:30 hitecnologys: that type is checked against your type specifier if you ask for it 15:29:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:30:00 So, there's something like two kinds of types, right? 15:30:17 hitecnologys: I don't think so. What makes you say that? 15:30:27 Just types. 15:30:32 Ah. 15:30:33 drmeister: it is undefined if you read a slot value which is not of the specified slot type 15:30:46 I'm confused now. 15:30:54 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 15:30:56 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-228-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:07 There's one single type specifier for each object, right? 15:31:11 There's something that are not types: classes. But for each class, theres a type with the same name that's declared to contain all the instances of this class (and its subclasses). 15:31:16 hitecnologys: no. 15:31:22 no, there's infinite specifiers for any object 15:31:41 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:43 but internally, an object has only one internal type 15:31:52 brb 15:31:55 Yeah, I mean internally. 15:31:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:57 (member 1 2) (member 1 3) (member 1 4) (member 1 5)  are all type specifiers for 1. 15:32:31 the internal "upgraded" type? 15:33:03 stassats: so, it has one internal type, but what about types defined with DEFTYPE? 15:33:14 what about them? 15:33:27 How are they related to this internal type? 15:33:42 for which operation? 15:33:54 For type checking, for example. 15:33:55 They're not related. 15:34:06 there's TYPEP and SUBTYPEP. 15:34:42 hitecnologys: this type (or the object itself in case of EQL or MEMBER) is checked against your type specifier 15:35:03 (typep '1 '(member 1 2)) (typep '1 '(member 1 3)) (typep '1 '(member 1 4)) (typep '1 'bit) (typep '1 'unsigned-byte) (typep '1 'signed-byte) (typep '1 'integer) (not (typep '1 'character)) all true. 15:35:36 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:36:22 Is it better to use the type (or (eql :calculate) integer) or (or (member :calculate) integer)? 15:37:03 it's the same, but i like the former 15:37:14 p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has joined #lisp 15:37:45 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@c1fw228.constantcontact.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:03 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c1fw228.constantcontact.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:15 So, the typep just applies some kind of predicate to object? 15:39:17 it performs anything necessary to test for the type 15:39:31 I'm trying to hunt down a quote that I think is either in the book "let over lambda" or something paul graham wrote. it's something like "a programming language should not be measured by how quickly you can write a given program in it or how few lines of code it takes you, but rather by how easily you can change one program into another". does that ring a bell with anybody? 15:39:55 stassats: ah, got it. 15:40:16 ogamita, stassats: thanks a lot for explanation. 15:40:23 one type specifier may require N type tests 15:40:44 And these tests a performed at runtime, right? 15:41:00 (integer 1 5) needs first to check whether the object is a fixnum, then whether it's in the required range 15:41:14 hitecnologys: unless the type is known at compile-time 15:41:28 I see. 15:42:33 (integer 0 power-of-two) on SBCL now does checking for fixnums and range in one step 15:43:11 How? 15:43:16 math! 15:43:50 Cool. 15:44:38 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:06 fixnums are implemented as [number][0], if you check for the power of two, you can have set bits only [zero bits][the value][zero bit] 15:45:41 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:45:44 I see. 15:45:48 you AND the number with 1111100...0001, if the result is non-zero, you don't have a matching type 15:47:12 works only for power of two, since only it can provide a slice of number in which any combination of bits is valid 15:47:32 so it doesn't have to be checked, and only the parts which always should be 0 needs a check 15:47:34 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:48 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 15:47:49 It's really nice having types like (or (eql :calculate) integer) 15:48:20 I can set the "isotope" slot for an atom to either :calculate or an explicit value. 15:48:27 hitecnologys: you can try disassembling (lambda (x) (typep x '(integer 0 31))) and (lambda (x) (typep x '(integer 0 20))) 15:49:04 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-228-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:50:25 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:51:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:53:37 stassats: I don't see any AND in output. Is it TEST RSX, -63? 15:54:00 yes, TEST is AND without writing results to RSX 15:54:04 only affecting the flags 15:54:13 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:54:29 ZF (zero flag) in this case is checked 15:54:46 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:55:05 Huh, that's funny math magic. 15:55:56 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 15:55:56 for (integer 0 20), TEST DL, 1 checks that the 0th bit is zero, and CMP RDX, 40 checks that it's in range 15:55:58 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-pxayquouinqqfcww] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:56:15 why 40 and not 20? because it's shifted on bit left, to give way for that 0th type tag 15:56:20 s/on/one/ 15:56:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-127-200.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:29 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-inrwuppmdkahhyna] has joined #lisp 15:57:37 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.59.67] has joined #lisp 15:58:21 -!- ehu` [~ehu@109.38.83.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:58:28 scripty [~scripty@117.221.125.253] has joined #lisp 15:58:34 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:58:59 I should definitely look deeper inside SBCL sources. 16:00:20 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.136.32] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:00:55 on 32-bit it's actually 2 bits, and not one, because 32-bits have lower number of lowtags 16:01:55 lowtag bits are 4-bit wide on x86-64, but fixnums use several low tags, all of which start with 0, thus effectively requiring only one bit 16:01:58 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:13 foeniks [~fevon@188.99.228.201] has joined #lisp 16:02:45 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 16:03:26 Does WITH-SLOTS work with structures - I'm 99% sure it does. 16:03:35 drmeister: it doesn't 16:03:47 Whaaa? 16:03:52 That seems silly. 16:04:01 slot-value doesn't work on structures 16:04:41 So is this the best way to set a bunch of structure slots? https://gist.github.com/drmeister/56585ce31b48ddf82dad 16:05:08 davazp [~user@31.200.139.228] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 yes 16:07:06 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:10:59 drmeister: with-accessors should work 16:11:03 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has joined #lisp 16:11:05 quux has with-prefixed-accessors 16:11:10 stassats: doesn't or shouldn't be used with? If I macro-expand out WITH-SLOTS on a structure on CCL it uses SLOT-VALUE on the structure just fine 16:11:31 j_king: yes, slot-value doesn't work for structures 16:11:35 clhs slot-value 16:11:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_slt_va.htm 16:12:04 "Note in particular that the behavior for conditions and structures is not specified." 16:13:09 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:13:11 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:15 stassats: ah, so my code works but might break on other implementations oops. :) 16:13:26 seangrov` [~user@216.3.101.62] has joined #lisp 16:13:31 stassats: thanks for pointing that out. noted. ;) 16:13:33 or in future revisions of your implementation 16:13:56 i don't remember on which implementations slot-value on structures doesn't work 16:14:30 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:14:51 Fare: with-accessors seems to be allowed to be used as (with-accessors ((length length)) '(1 2 3) length) => 3 16:15:09 but i don't really use with-accessors, it's useless 16:15:20 why, useless? 16:15:33 you might like quux:with-prefixed-accessors 16:15:37 -!- shocklike10 [~shocklike@87.117.232.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:49 We really need to create a separate quux utilities system :-/ 16:15:50 it requires so much typing, i'm better off with using the accessors directly 16:16:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:17:43 I wonder what the proper strategy is for making quux code useful 16:18:03 but yes, a quux-utilities package could help 16:18:10 or maybe quuux ? 16:18:17 a better name would be a first step 16:18:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:26 such as? 16:18:38 could recycle qitab, I suppose 16:18:42 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:02 anything but placeholder names or keyboard sequences 16:19:33 and use asdf-package-system style 16:20:40 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:04 has anyone given a look at asdf-package-system ? 16:21:29 nyef's opinion would be particularly welcome 16:21:44 does nyef even use asdf? 16:22:16 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:18 hm is there no standard destructuring macro for structs? best I can find is the one in On Lisp so far... 16:22:33 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:24:18 i think it's pretty much with-accessors 16:24:25 stassats, he uses quick-build — and asdf-package-system reimplements quick-build on top of ASDF 16:24:47 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 16:24:56 brown` [user@nat/google/x-vfjbyynusiwhxjhi] has joined #lisp 16:25:24 j_king: optima will destructure structs; presumably he/they did the work to find the introspection necessary across implementations 16:25:25 except integrated with ASDF, made portable, configurable and robust like ASDF 2/3, with the fix to the bug that quick-build shares with ASDF 1/2 and all previous defsystems. 16:26:25 bhyde: not sure about optima and structs being portable. I believe it uses CLOS for introspection. Can you even portably introspect structs where they are not amenable to CLOS MOP access? 16:26:38 -!- seangrov` [~user@216.3.101.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:38 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:27:30 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-200-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:28:17 presumably all implementations have private ways to introspect them, for their debugging tools 16:29:04 so no, i don't think you can portable introspect them, it would require a per-implementation bit-o-glue 16:30:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30:51 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:31:06 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 16:31:31 seangrov` [~user@79.sub-70-197-91.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-200-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:52 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:09 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:46 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD63EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:51 scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:36:46 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD60C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:51 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:50 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@74.212.183.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:13 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:30 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 ha optima doesn't really handle structs, it handles anything that conforms to the naming conventions around structs and their slot accessors - https://github.com/m2ym/optima#structure 16:41:41 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:42 fevon [~fevon@dslb-188-099-254-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:59 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 16:42:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:42:56 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:25 -!- ogamita [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:44:38 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:44:41 -!- foeniks [~fevon@188.99.228.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:44:52 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 16:47:55 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9C0B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:26 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-251-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51:39 -!- fevon [~fevon@dslb-188-099-254-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:55:18 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 16:55:36 How do people deal with Shift/Reduce conflicts - they drive me nuts because I don't know how to deal with them: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/e3cc17ae7981038a38bf 16:55:37 sellout-1 [~Adium@174-16-103-2.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:46 Here is the grammar I'm working to implement: http://www.opensmiles.org/spec/open-smiles-2-grammar.html 16:57:25 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:31 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:45 maybe http://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Shift_002fReduce.html would help a bit? 17:00:20 Thanks - I always run into problems trying to describe lists containing none, one or more entries. 17:02:38 If the elements are separated by a token the easiest way is to split things into empty list, or list element followed by separator prepended list 17:02:47 Which is annoying, but straightforward. 17:04:45 (And some parsing tools allow higher order rules, obviating the entire stupid mess.) 17:05:38 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:26 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:35 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c1fw228.constantcontact.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:35 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-254-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:14 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jofqiiaxdppqtjei] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:01 phf [~phf@c-71-224-252-90.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined 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[~blackened@pdf879b76.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:11:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p579226EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:05 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 19:15:14 -!- keen_ [~blackened@pdf879b76.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Tiarra 0.1+svn-39209: SIGINT received; exit] 19:16:16 -!- Code_Man [~Adolf-Cha@185-206.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:24 Code_Man [~Adolf-Cha@185-206.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 -!- Code_Man [~Adolf-Cha@185-206.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:18 Code_Man [~Adolf-Cha@185-206.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:19:03 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 19:19:17 To remove my cl-yacc shift/reduce conflicts I ended up modifying the lexer to look ahead one more character to distinguish between the dashes in "-[0-9]" and "-[A-Za-z]". 19:19:43 That's a pretty standard thing to do - right? 19:20:32 I mean - is it ok to make the lexer more complicated to deal with a shift/reduce conflict in a LALR(1) grammar? 19:20:38 well, does it work? 19:20:44 Heck yeah! 19:21:01 sounds good to me then 19:22:11 It's compiling arbitrary SMILES code into an abstract-syntax-tree. Next I'll translate the AST into molecular structures. 19:23:11 drmeister: I forget whether CL-yacc lets you add more look-ahead, which might be a cleaner solution. 19:23:14 -!- ggole [~ggole@203-59-133-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:23:29 rpg: I don't see anything in the docs. 19:23:55 I think multiple token look-ahead is something that we just learn about in compilers, and no one uses... But I could be wrong. 19:24:26 Yacc/bison parsers always seem to end up looking like a horror as the grammar is progressively obscured to avoid conflicts. 19:25:06 SMILES has a pretty short grammar, i don't think it will be too much of a problem... 19:25:50 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.59.67] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 19:26:08 How do I specify a production for something that may or may not be present? I thought it would look like this: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/dd269520dea0c2d81e7a 19:26:11 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.59.67] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 With the empty list indicating that no number may be given for the isotope as in [U] vs [235U] - where the 235 indicates the isotope 19:27:50 -!- milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:22 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:29:53 keen_ [~blackened@pdf879b76.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:30:26 p_nathan [~Adium@216.57.209.252] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 mikeit [~mikeit@net-37-116-147-184.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 19:33:11 bind_ [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:33:11 -!- bind_ [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:28 Dabuti [~dabuti@217.216.36.215.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:51 -!- mikeit [~mikeit@net-37-116-147-184.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:04 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-120-148.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:14 mikeit [~mikeit@net-37-116-147-184.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 19:34:28 Hello I'm a newbie in lisp language, but I just need to replace a string that I get in %f (it's a filename with extension) I would like to remove the extension 19:34:48 Anyone could help me ? 19:35:37 so you have a string like "foo.barsh" and want "foo" back? 19:35:44 exactly 19:36:04 subseq is what you look for 19:36:05 (subseq str 0 (pos #\Space str)) i think 19:36:20 (setq org-latex-pdf-process 19:36:21 '("xelatex -shell-escape -interaction nonstopmode %f)) 19:36:21 not #\Space, i meant #\. 19:36:39 I need to remove the extension of %f 19:36:40 Dabuti: is this elisp? try #emacs 19:36:49 Yeah it is 19:36:51 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-120-148.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:54 Ok, sorry 19:37:01 I got it - you don't use empty list - you don't put any symbol in and just provide the action that takes no arguments. 19:37:01 this channel is for common lisp, a different language. you'll get more help in #emacs. 19:37:18 Ok thanks 19:39:30 abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.255.63] has joined #lisp 19:39:36 -!- Code_Man [~Adolf-Cha@185-206.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:45 -!- diadara__ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:43:47 Sweet! I now have a fully compliant SMILES parser and it only took about 6 hours of work - much of it trying to figure out cl-yacc and dealing with a shift/reduce conflict. 19:43:58 I truly feel sorry for people who don't know Common Lisp. 19:44:30 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-240-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 me too 19:46:45 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-120-148.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:47:04 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-120-148.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:10 drmeister: it will be nice if you can write a blog post describing your experiences 19:48:15 samebchase: I'm not much of a writer - and if I do write - I should be writing papers. 19:49:13 hm. I guess you must be busy with those then... 19:49:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:52:12 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 19:54:09 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:55:25 milanj [~milanj@cable-178-148-2-202.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:56:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:41 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-240-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:17 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:01:24 AK__ [5b9a6e2f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.154.110.47] has joined #lisp 20:03:14 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:51 -!- sellout [~Adium@174-16-103-2.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:06:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:14:02 sthalik [~sthalik@aurora.misaki.pl] has joined #lisp 20:14:03 heya 20:14:10 is ECL maintainer here? 20:14:27 no 20:14:33 thanks 20:14:54 is anyone gonna volunteer? 20:15:02 aha, you've probably already discussed it here 20:15:06 carry on 20:15:28 i haven't yet heard anybody planning on doing it 20:15:45 you've gotta be fragging kidding me... gotta check the date on the post 20:15:52 just 11h 20:15:58 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:01 it's today 20:16:04 it's sad to see it slowly bitrot 20:16:20 wanted to mention this here, this Juan dude is fragging awesome 20:16:28 he renamed all symbols to ecl_* overnight 20:16:36 i seriously thought it was automated back then 20:16:42 and didn't thank him/thank enough 20:16:59 i mean, how awesome is that for him? 20:18:06 I though again about embedding a CL into PostgreSQL as a procedural language, and came to think that I'd like the lisp image to run as an integrated background process (API is available for that for extensions in PostgreSQL 9.3) and have per-backend function calls happen in a CL thread in that backend 20:18:18 the problem is that PostgreSQL internally is not thread safe 20:18:30 (lots of static state variables) 20:18:34 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:37 dim, then thunk all the way down, like turtles 20:19:13 do you really need a REPL, though? 20:20:06 anyhoo, why not jump into the main loop and tick there, when nothing in that address space is doing the work? 20:20:16 as in, collect thunks for REPL stuffage 20:20:26 and execute them inside the for (;;) 20:21:01 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:28:49 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:28:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.212.217] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:47 no need for REPL no 20:36:55 seangrov` [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 20:38:27 what's wrong with 9.3, though? 20:38:34 it's gonna become mainline in short time 20:38:43 well, relatively speaking 20:40:07 Lorcat [~BostonMA1@unaffiliated/bostonma1776] has joined #lisp 20:40:18 well it's mainline already, there's nothing wrong about it 20:40:28 it's providing new features that I think we could benefit from here 20:41:37 one thing, though, is forcing Boehm GC on the whole process :( 20:41:42 it's only good to prototype, IMO 20:41:48 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:07 *dim* needs to be sleeping anyway, gn 20:42:14 cu 20:44:55 Xach: could you evaluate my asdf patch for your needs? 20:47:02 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-129-171.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:47:41 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: svs_] 20:47:50 I'll try. It looks much more complicated for the task than I expected. 20:48:28 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:28 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:31 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-129-171.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:01 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-dcpffktyubcodcgh] has joined #lisp 20:50:02 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-129-171.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:22 uh? I thought it did exactly what you expected: try load the primary system first, then load the secondary system 20:50:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:00 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:00 I considered "load the secondary system directly, then fall back to loading the primary system first", but it was both more code and potential semantic havoc 20:51:35 and by "load", I mean "load the asd", not load the system. 20:52:52 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 20:53:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:24 Maybe that's what it does, but the patch was not clear enough for me to see that in a minute's worth of review. 20:53:39 the patch also adds some stuff against infinite recursion 20:53:49 |jrg| [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-176-250.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:54:03 that may happen if you do the above naively (I tried, and it did happen) 20:54:07 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:55 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-22-51.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:58 Maybe that's the bit that I didn't understand at first glance. 20:55:50 DoctorDude [~jake@unaffiliated/doctordude] has joined #lisp 20:57:13 I suppose I could factor things differently — remove that (&optional name) thing, and "just" do the setf in find-system-if-being-defined 20:57:24 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:45 that would be kind of hackish 20:58:01 but maybe in a neat way 20:58:20 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-129-171.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:55 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:25 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:00:33 (would definitely require proper commenting) 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[~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: CODE UPDATES YAY] 22:09:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:36 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:09:54 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:08 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:22 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:11:56 -!- namccarty [~namccarty@74-131-94-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:13:04 k0001 [~k0001@host2.190-229-208.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:13:36 Infandum [4c632e49@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.99.46.73] has joined #lisp 22:14:13 When I run code in the interpreter and it fails, how can I tell what line it failed on? 22:14:23 -!- optikalmouse [~optikalmo@207-245-237-147.dedicated.allstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:53 I'm getting the error "AREF: argument X is not an array" 22:15:00 And I need to know where this is occurring 22:15:50 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:58 Infandum: well, for a start, what lisp you are using? 22:16:02 if someone asks a question, how can i tell what implementation is he using? 22:16:03 clisp 22:17:51 -!- anna [~wde@79.103.154.32.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:18:22 Infandum: are you running your code with clisp console? 22:18:40 foreignFunction: Yes. Can it give a line number? 22:19:16 I'm assuming that GNU CLISP is the clisp console in linux. 22:19:25 i can't find anything in the manual 22:19:32 Infandum: is there any reason for why you are not using Emacs with Slime? 22:19:48 foreignFunction: Because I like Vim 22:19:52 foreignFunction: clisp won't give line numbers for frames either 22:20:25 Infandum: In that case try slimv. 22:20:30 OK 22:20:41 Thanks! 22:20:46 Infandum: try looking which function causes your error 22:20:46 -!- Infandum [4c632e49@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.99.46.73] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:21:02 in the backtrace 22:21:14 or try using a better implementation 22:22:10 page closed 22:25:04 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.139.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:25:50 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:01 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:07 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.30.181] has joined #lisp 22:32:19 i wonder how the repl is used in vim, is it dual-mode too? 22:34:09 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@74.212.183.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.251.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:26 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:56 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-251-48.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:40:38 sz0 [~textual@176.237.119.215] has joined #lisp 22:41:18 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:40 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:55 minion: memo for Infandum: have a look at http://www.cliki.net/TutorialClispDebugger 22:42:55 Remembered. I'll tell Infandum when he/she/it next speaks. 22:43:11 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:16 which fails to answer the question 22:44:26 -!- sz0 [~textual@176.237.119.215] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:22 stassats: then edit it, it's a wiki! 22:46:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-251-48.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:29 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-251-48.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:39 oh sorry, i see that it's my fault now 22:47:00 We could indeed add a mention to the fact that lisp sources are sexp, not lines of characters. 22:47:40 which is a total bunk 22:50:38 worst of both worlds! 22:51:22 -!- tolk [~user@host175.190-138-194.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:53:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-251-48.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-251-48.red.bezeqint.net] has 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