14:52:47 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:47 14:52:47 -!- names: ccl-logbot kliph Codynyx tesuji benny teggi Juanito-Jons anxic setmeaway sohail chenjf ahungry_ ejohnson ManateeLazyCat clmsy Mon_Ouie hwiersma mgile axion nightfly the_TORmentor willyfrog motionman drmeister oleo duggiefresh mvilleneuve kwmiebach_ pranavrc cdidd foreignFunction antonv zickzackv saysjonathan JuanDaugherty theos FrostyX seangrov` quazimodo ivan\ harish_ EvW guyal jtza8 hitecnologys_ snite_ arnsa segv- Jubb zacharias ogamita MoALTz 14:52:47 -!- names: Quadrescence Okasu JPeterson pavelpenev ZombieChicken angavrilov dmiles_afk araujo gusta ThePhoeron ck`` namtsui block87 chr killerboy spacebat ianmcorvidae ered naryl jewel PuffTheMagic shridhar xificurC DrCode housel Tarential maxter_ jaimef Vutral BlankVerse ggole weie_ stepnem mishoo ASau kpreid alezost joneshf-laptop Gooder`` ashish__ capisce tertl3-laptop rtoym beach justinmcp dan64 Guest12579 [SLB] aw|incendiary eli chu neoncortex prxq__ sellout- 14:52:47 -!- names: Bike jack_rabbit cantstanya s0ber blaaa tkd |nix| Natch add^_ ferada danlentz cohn fikusz zenoli irq0 abend nbouscal marsam arbscht Odin- Wukix` seggioo macrobat mcsontos milosn Kruppe trebor_dki eak ecraven _d3f joneshf-work hyperboreean Patzy schoppenhauer feorex_ patrickwonders hypno asedeno effy tali713 tessier karswell mlamari BlastHardcheese surrounder jayne wormphlegm shifty subtlepath ramus rvirding j0ni finnrobi bhyde fmu____ gluegadget sigjuice 14:52:47 -!- names: expez KingNato_ wddd cibs eagleflo Sourceless karupa64 nitro_idiot_ bege ggherdov photex madnificent minion ezakimak wyan pok Anarch ashp redline6561 vsync TristamWrk matko sauerkrause bobbysmith007 zmyrgel H4ns paddymahoney REPLeffect vnz samebchase igorw copec sontek seantallen aoh purentity reb` gensym PuercoPop gko sbryant oconnore naeg dfox spacefrogg^ Zhivago gabot Posterdati vhost- macdice nullman Borbus zfx nialo par Tristam mathrick |3b| clop 14:52:47 -!- names: xan_ bjorkintosh sykopomp billstclair GuilOooo Krystof doomlord_ pchrist tensorpudding cyphase s00pcan ineiros ski drdo dsp_ robot-beethoven flip214 devon`` igotnolegs- setheus kanru Nshag antoszka Ketsuban d4gg4d_ dented42 ahungry The_third_man brmj yrk phadthai jdz hugod rvchangue Blkt antifuchs @fe[nl]ix ircbrowse guaqua Ralt cpt_nemo loke arrsim rk[imposter] cmatei sweet_kid aajmakin varjag pjb nightshade427 Praise hiyosi robsmoniker Adeon Yanez ft 14:52:47 -!- names: mikaelj AntiSpamMeta Oddity blackwol` clog acieroid cmbntr SHODAN koisoke balle gendl trigen|afk krrrcks froggey aerique _schulte_ oGMo Ash gemelen cross daimrod theBlackDragon Xach easye tychoish kbtr p_l BrianRice dotemacs prip yeltzooo zbigniew mshroyer Tordek eMBee ckoch786 jsnell ryankarason Roin joast galdor nuba jd__ j_king rabite sid_cypher banjiewen Cheery Subfusc tomaw felipe stokachu johs obre kmder yroeht2 DollyDuplex rotty sshirokov 14:52:47 -!- names: Yamazaki-kun dim mtd AeroNotix freiksenet z0d epsylon strawman0f Fade tvaalen newcup Watcher7 specbot quasisane pegu lemoinem guther brucem cruxeternus stopbit hellome felideon isaacbw scharan smull cods mmathis gf3 Guest25276 Khisanth yano wilfredh ``Erik ozzloy optikalmouse Amadiro luis` sfa ivan fmu maxpeck em sjl djinni` sytse Mandus foom __main__ aeth DrForr Neptu hpd otwieracz mal____ deadghost_ jasom_ _death 14:52:47 -cameron.freenode.net:#lisp- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp 14:53:08 (loop for i from 1 to 10 collect i) 14:53:12 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:53:53 nightshade427: Shorter version? 14:54:09 Or use iota from Alexandria library 14:54:14 It's shorter 14:54:30 But beware of the sematic differences. 14:55:34 sin293 [~Administr@60.221.115.210] has joined #lisp 14:55:42 nightshade427: There have shorter version with built-in style? Not need external library 14:56:05 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:56:38 Not that I know of, just loop 14:57:13 You can make your own function to wrap loop and have whatever syntax you want if you want it shorter. 14:57:41 Or use iota which has one written for you. 14:57:55 ManateeLazyCat: (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:iota 10) is perfectly built-in style. 14:57:56 I don't know a shorter way built in :( 14:58:14 There's absolutely no style difference with eg. (cl:make-list 10) 14:58:50 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:55 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:10 (defun range (start end) (loop for i from start to end collect i)) then (apply (function +) (range 1 10)) 15:00:30 nightshade427: How do i got (1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0) ? 15:01:02 sz0 [~textual@92.44.62.223] has joined #lisp 15:01:04 (defun range (start end &optional step) (let ((step (or step 1))) (loop for i from start to end by step collect i))) 15:01:14 (range 1.2 2.0001 0.2) 15:01:24 ggole: Oh, thanks. 15:01:45 I would just is iota at that point if possible 15:01:52 It handles all that and more 15:02:02 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.161] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:02:35 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.161] has joined #lisp 15:02:49 nightshade427: I'm studying common lisp, i like feeling language syntax through share code. :) 15:03:18 You can take a look at how iota is done :) 15:03:27 <|3b|> ManateeLazyCat: probably better to use (REDUCE #'+ ...) than (APPLY #'+ ...) for arbitrary lists 15:03:36 nightshade427: Thanks, i will. :) 15:03:53 |3b|: Ah, let me try. :) 15:04:13 <|3b|> since apply calls the function with all the elements of the list as arguments, and there might be more elements in the list than you are allowed to pass as arguments to a function call 15:04:52 <|3b|> REDUCE calls the function repeatedly with first 2 elements, then calls it repeatedly with result from previous call and next element 15:05:37 clhs reduce 15:05:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 15:05:39 <|3b|> APPLY is safe for a list from &rest, since the &rest list was already limited by the function call argument limit 15:07:13 -!- Gooder`` [~user@12.199.200.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:30 marko-v [~user@unaffiliated/marko-v] has joined #lisp 15:08:08 function what-line in simple.el. I am curious why is it there save-excursion when in the body of it there are no pointer movements, just things that are save-restriction related? Learning elips so am wondering for a reason. Thanks :) 15:09:42 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 15:10:58 arnas [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:11:43 -!- sin293 [~Administr@60.221.115.210] has quit [Quit: ] 15:12:29 Got the answer on #emacs 15:12:41 marko-v: save-excursion to for keep current environment if you do temp operation in buffer. :) 15:12:57 marko-v: (save-excursion (save-restriction ...)) is a very common pattern, it was probably applied without much care. 15:13:13 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:31 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:13:34 ManateeLazyCat: Ye, know that. Just this functions doesn't change the current environment, it only widens the buffer. 15:13:41 And gives a message. 15:14:05 marko-v: Maybe developer forget delete save-excursion? ;p 15:14:16 -!- arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:18 :) probably 15:14:35 Well, I don't mind, just learn-curious 15:15:10 *ManateeLazyCat* Like found new land when we read the code wrote by other. :) 15:15:54 *ManateeLazyCat* Explore, feeling, enjoy coding world, special lisp world. :) 15:15:59 :) 15:16:31 kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-138-107.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 15:16:32 *ManateeLazyCat* I spend so much time on C and python, it's time back to lisp. :) 15:16:58 -!- anxic [6dbe5d7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.190.93.124] has left #lisp 15:17:55 ggole: Why (loop for i from start to end by step collect i) return (1.0 1.2 1.4000001 1.6000001 1.8000002) and not (1.0 1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8) ? 15:18:09 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D107.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 because of how floats work? 15:18:46 Yep. 15:18:57 If you want exact values, use ratios. 15:19:36 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:19:42 (loop for i from 1 to 2 by 1/5 collect i) 15:20:48 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:36 clhs ratios 15:22:36 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ratios. 15:22:43 clhs ratio 15:22:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_ratio.htm 15:22:53 thanks! :) 15:22:55 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:39 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:24:06 Looks ratio is not built-in function, where i can import it? 15:24:29 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:24:49 -!- antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:26:49 ggole: I must use ratios? Can't use float like (1.2 1.4 1.6) ? 15:27:20 You can use whatever you like? 15:28:00 Looks have float trick in here. 15:28:22 That's how floats work. 15:28:25 <|3b|> single-float can't exactly represent 1/5 15:29:01 |3b|: Which float can represent 1/5 ? 15:29:04 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:29:09 |3b|: Example code? 15:29:12 <|3b|> no binary float can 15:29:30 I'm confuse now. 15:29:46 <|3b|> a float is stored as a binary fraction and an exponent 15:30:07 ManateeLazyCat: http://floating-point-gui.de/ have fun. 15:30:17 <|3b|> so it can store things like 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 etc exactly, and sums of those 15:30:37 (+ 1.2 0.2) => 1.4000001 make me confuse. 15:30:45 This would be much more convenient if humanity had eight fingers. 15:31:07 ManateeLazyCat: my link will explain. 15:31:11 ManateeLazyCat: 1- ask for a refund to your CS school. 15:31:14 *ManateeLazyCat* Readking 15:31:18 ManateeLazyCat: 2- read What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 15:32:38 ogamita: I'm self-study everything about CS 15:32:50 Then ask yourself for a refund :-) 15:33:00 But only if you can afford it. 15:33:00 Haha 15:33:58 14/10 is represented by 1.4000001 for the exact same reason that 2/3 is represented by 0.66666667 15:34:23 Only 1.4000001 is because computers work in base two, while 0.6666667 is because we work in base ten. 15:34:58 If we worked in base 3, then 2/3 would be 0.2 exactly. 15:36:19 Some IBM CPU had base-ten floating point numbers, where 14/10 would be represented exactly by 1.4. 15:36:44 x86 has BCD operations. 15:36:58 ogamita: Do you remember which one? 15:37:03 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.4.149] has joined #lisp 15:37:23 ScTrader [~sctrader@c-24-91-230-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:55 After i reading page by Bike, i understand why i got 1.40000001, but how i tell lisp return 1.4 ? use round function myself? 15:38:57 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:39:18 1.4 does not exist 15:39:20 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:29 (hi beach!) 15:39:38 Hey Krystof 15:39:51 travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:31 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 15:41:15 Krystof: I mean, in human world 1.0 + 0.4 should return 1.4 , right? So how to make lisp return 1.4 like other language for programming purpose? 15:41:44 what do you mean by return? 15:42:14 beach: IBM 360 :-) 15:42:39 0.4 does not exist either 15:42:40 ogamita: Oh, really? I'll check it out. Thanks! 15:42:44 what are you really trying to do? 15:42:52 -!- ScTrader [~sctrader@c-24-91-230-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:43:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-158-220-83.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:01 Oops, I'm remembering wrong, they had base 16: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Floating_Point_Architecture 15:43:15 also, you could shortcut this whole conversation by going to read "What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating Point" 15:43:20 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43:21 ogamita: Oh, ok. 15:43:27 manatee: can you use rationals? 15:43:35 maybe ManateeLazyCat doesn't know the difference between internal representation and printed representation and thus can't express himself 15:44:49 -!- hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@46.233.247.236] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys_] 15:44:55 Yanez: How? I just reading some pages of <> 15:45:16 just use 14/10 instead of 1.4 15:45:47 "just" 15:45:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:06 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 15:46:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:46:31 I this must be in the top 10 of the most frequently asked questions about Lisp... 15:46:43 or about most programming languages in general ;) 15:46:43 I see if rationals is right lisp way. Just surprise 1.4000000001 return by lisp 15:47:02 manatee: this has nothing to do with lisp. 15:47:28 ManateeLazyCat: by return you surely mean "print" 15:47:50 Yanez: I know, but other programming language, such as Python won't *print* 1.400000001 even 1.4 is not exist 15:48:12 i don't know which implementation are you using, but all the ones i have print 1.4 15:48:33 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:31 manatee: I think others have already explained this above, but it's pretty simple: many floating point numbers that have an "exact" representation in base 10 don't have it in base 2. When you use lisp, you work in base 2, but you print your numbers in base 10, so the result is not always what you expect. 15:49:52 ManateeLazyCat: languages that don't print 1.4000001 are lying to you. 15:49:52 if your problem is how to *print* numbers the way you want, then use FORMAT with the ~f directive, for example 15:50:22 ManateeLazyCat: you can lie to yourself by using (format t "~,1F~%" 1.4) 15:50:39 Oh, i see, i hope lisp *print* number base 10, but it *print* number base 2 15:50:42 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:51:50 ManateeLazyCat: Try this: (let ((x (coerce 14/10 'single-float))) (format t "~,1F~%~:*~A~%" x)) 15:52:23 ManateeLazyCat: also, have a look at DECODE-FLOAT 15:53:11 Compare: (decode-float 1.4000001) (decode-float 1.4) 15:53:19 manatee: no, I said the opposite, printing is in base 10 by default (unless you change it) but the number you are trying to print is *not* 1.4 15:54:38 floats are always printed base 10 15:54:40 and read 15:56:16 Ok, i think no-confuse way is write code like this: (range 1 2 1/5) => (1 6/5 7/5 8/5 9/5 2) 15:57:00 rationals are not a substitute for floating point numbers 15:57:37 Gooder`` [~user@206.124.126.33] has joined #lisp 15:57:39 pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:42 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 manatee: just to show you it's not just a lisp problem, try this in python: 15:58:09 >>> 0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1 15:58:10 0.9999999999999999 15:58:35 IEEE floats \o/ 15:58:48 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 15:58:48 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Client Quit] 15:59:06 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 16:00:06 Yanez: Ok, i live in lying world. :) 16:00:23 manatee: no... you live in a *binary* world and you don't know it! 16:00:47 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 16:01:00 OK, i got the point, continue study common lisp. :) 16:01:03 now try this: 16:01:12 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:22 (loop repeat 10 sum 0.1) and then (loop repeat 10 sum 1/10) 16:02:52 Thanks all, i see now. :) 16:03:02 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:17 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 16:03:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has joined #lisp 16:03:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:03:58 better try (time (loop repeat 1000000 sum 1/10)) and (time (loop repeat 1000000 sum 0.1)) 16:04:59 awygle [~Andrew@50-46-110-78.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:06 <_death> also try (let ((k (make-kahan))) (loop repeat 1000000 do (k+ k 0.1)) (kahan-sum k)) with the appropriate operators implemented 16:06:24 -!- _death is now known as adeht 16:06:36 *sum 16:07:08 manatee: stassats's point is that using rationals is slower than using floats. There's a price to pay for everything. 16:07:16 marko-v` [~user@cable-24-135-66-183.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:08:12 desophos [~desophos@n163h85.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 16:08:27 -!- marko-v [~user@unaffiliated/marko-v] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:33 -!- awygle [~Andrew@50-46-110-78.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:34 Better get the right result slowly, or the wrong result fastly? IMO, the Ariane 5 would have survived getting attitude information slower but exact. 16:09:01 better do what you need to do instead of falling into false generalizations? 16:09:18 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D325.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:53 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-215-99.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: BOOM] 16:10:00 stassats`: my generalization is less false than the other. 16:10:04 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@205.250.11.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:19 And the point is that people don't know what they need! 16:10:35 and you do know what they need? 16:11:13 I know that exact results will lead to fewer catastrophes. 16:12:57 is that a fact? 16:12:58 diadara__ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 16:12:58 slow results may mean no result when it's needed 16:12:58 And that using lisp, could open the door to smarter software that could watch out what's happening and take over when problems occur, even if slowly, compared to brittle but fast hard coded software . 16:12:58 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:58 and why am arguing such obvious things? 16:12:58 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:58 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:12:58 stassats`: The macroscopic physical world is slow! You always have a lot of time. 16:13:18 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 16:13:27 I would ask... why argue about such things, in general? the important thing is to know how the tools you use work. then you can choose the best one depending on the problem / constraints / requirements / etc etc... 16:14:02 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 i know, i argue because somebody not knowledgeable, like ManateeLazyCat, may believe ogamita 16:14:32 Yanez: well, the question is why argue it in this small room. It should be shouted over all the world, so they use lisp instead of crappy fast systems. 16:15:08 ogamita: I agree, I've been doing that for 20 years... but I'm not sure I've been very successful... 16:15:13 -!- travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:15:37 so Carmack should've used ratios in his quake engine :) 16:16:02 Well, we know we've not been successful, stassats` is proof of it :-) 16:16:29 adeht: and inserted cheerful music when the gc kicked to collect garbage from the ratios 16:16:38 ? I thought we were talking about people who don't use lisp... 16:16:38 adeht: if he had written it in lisp, he could have used symbolic computation, to avoid those problems. 16:16:45 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16:57 I'm trying to write new window manager for Linux Deepin, that's why i study common lisp from ground. 16:16:58 yeah, what's 3fps vs 60fps 16:17:09 Yes, but even people using or knowing lisp don't understand it. 16:17:14 Of course, new window manager write by lisp 16:17:18 I actually agree with stassats on the technical issue here :) 16:17:35 Other question, how fast common lisp can be? 16:17:39 ManateeLazyCat: and you read the sources of StumpWM I guess. 16:17:51 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-17-175.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:17:56 manatee: this question makes no sense 16:18:03 ManateeLazyCat: http://cliki.net/Performance 16:18:13 ogamita: some people just don't live in imaginary world 16:18:29 ogamita: Yes, i will, infact, i plan to write new lisp WM for general people, just like, compiz or metacity, not tile WM 16:18:49 Good. 16:19:05 Good luck. 16:19:08 isn't there already thousands of WMs? 16:19:10 stassats`: yes, they use java. Instead of making the world better and using lisp. 16:19:27 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@staticline-31-183-61-68.toya.net.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:30 stassats`: written in CL, only one. ANother in emacs lisp. 16:21:21 ManateeLazyCat: what makes you think that CL is a good language to write a WM in? 16:21:22 stassats`: Too many tile WM in this world, but just few WM for desktop linux user. Now just have some WM good for Linux desktop: compiz, metacity, mutter, openbox. 16:21:35 Yanez: Hot swap. 16:22:11 Yanez: I can write WM in *debugging* mode, instead, compile C, restart WM binary, and restore window state before re-compile. 16:22:39 Yanez: I want write WM like i write elisp in Emacs, just re-load after change code, all window state is keep for continue coding. 16:23:05 it seems that saving window state is a no problem for restarting 16:23:25 Yanez: Infact, i just need lisp's hot-swap, but common lisp looks have so many libraries to use. 16:23:59 just exec(3) a new image 16:24:12 Yanez: lisp is good to write anything and everything. 16:24:23 Even kernels: use Movitz to write your next kernel. 16:24:35 ogamita: I agree, but some things are harder to do than others 16:24:38 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-nkmhqfzrmzvewwlf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:43 Not in lisp :-) 16:24:54 CL is my first choice for almost everything, but it would not be for a WM :) 16:25:04 -!- ogamita [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 16:25:08 my first choice would be to not write a WM 16:25:16 stassats`: right. 16:25:18 stumpwm is great ;) 16:25:32 Yanez: Why? 16:25:51 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:30 stassats`: I'm a leader developer of Linux Deepin, we are building new linux distribution for desktop user, and compiz use opengl have bad performance for linux hardware, so i decide rewrite WM for linux deepin. 16:26:32 ManateeLazyCat: because a WM is too "low-level", too tied to the underlying OS and window system 16:27:03 CL is good for large, exploratory, underspecified problems 16:27:26 or I should say... those are the kinds of problems for which CL gives you an advantage 16:27:35 Yanez: We rewrite much software for better user experience: Software-Center, Music-Player, Media-Player, Screenshot-Tools, Game-Center, Powerful-TerminatlEmualtor, and New Desktop environment( Deepin Desktop environment). 16:27:51 ltbarcly [~textual@93.158.36.106] has joined #lisp 16:27:54 -!- block87 [~Block87@185.25.87.11] has quit [Quit: block87] 16:28:04 ManateeLazyCat: and what language did you use to write those programs? 16:28:06 how come all these "better user experience" usually give "crappy experience"? 16:28:17 Yanez: Python/C/C++ 16:28:30 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@93.158.36.106] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:32 Yanez: Python, C, C++, CoffeeScript, HTML5 16:28:52 removing features doesn't seem like a better experience 16:28:56 so why didn't you use CL for those too? 16:29:09 stassats`: Linux Deepin is bulid for general people that don't know how computer work, not bulid for geek like us. :) 16:29:38 -!- Gooder`` [~user@206.124.126.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:44 Yanez: Because not so many lisp programmer in China. 16:30:25 agnosis46 [~agnosis46@185.25.87.11] has joined #lisp 16:30:34 Yanez: And lisp can't work for everything, such as there have many C/C++ module for desktop environment. 16:30:49 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:51 right... 16:31:16 I'm the only lisp programmer in my team. 16:31:34 Yanez: So i want build project with different way. 16:31:40 haven't you said that you're just learning? 16:32:03 stassats`: I'm just learing syntax of common lisp. 16:32:14 oh boy 16:32:37 if you're just learning the syntax, it will take some time before you can write something as complex as a WM 16:32:39 common lisp is much more than just syntax 16:32:42 stassats`: Infact, i have write many elisp code before: www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AndyStewart 16:32:58 and it's not comparable to elisp much 16:33:07 Different topic: Who is maintaining ASDF these days? 16:33:29 Yanez: I will try since i'm very good on GTK+/X11 16:33:36 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-138-107.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:39 beach: Robert P. Goldman 16:33:50 stassats`: Thanks. 16:34:29 I was wondering whether there is some plan to make the documentation understandable to mere mortals like myself. 16:34:36 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D325.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:41 ManateeLazyCat: ignore naysayers and have a go at it ;) 16:35:21 beach: that doesn't seem possible, given that ASDF itself cannot be understood 16:35:31 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D30E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:35:35 joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has joined #lisp 16:35:37 stassats`: haha, yes I see! 16:36:38 -!- sz0 [~textual@92.44.62.223] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:38:06 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 16:38:32 I guess I shall have to do some cargo culting rather than trying to understand :( 16:38:33 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:48 what are you trying to achieve? 16:40:10 dkordic [~danilo@5.138.167.45] has joined #lisp 16:40:16 At some point, I need to define a new 'op', e.g. cross-compile. 16:42:57 probably easier to find something which does similar things 16:43:05 yeah :( 16:43:18 The documentation has references to code like that. 16:44:30 It is sad though; I figure if I can't understand how to use ASDF from the documentation, then a newbie probably can't either. 16:44:57 they rarely do complicated things 16:45:23 i don't do complicated things in ASDF because complicated things tend to break in the next major release 16:46:02 I see. 16:46:34 But in my opinion, even fairly simple use of ASDF is hard to understand from reading the documentation. 16:46:51 I guess it doesn't matter much. Newbies don't seem to read documentation anyway anymore. 16:46:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:47:09 MoALTz [~no@host86-158-220-83.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has joined #lisp 16:47:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.224.193] has quit [Changing host] 16:47:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:49:47 did they ever? 16:50:04 Maybe not. 16:50:28 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:33 I must be the only one left who does not use ASDF... 16:50:55 Probably. 16:51:23 add^_ [~user@m176-70-215-99.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:52:24 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-143-223.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:25 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.4.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:53:26 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:58:50 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c0fc-28.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:00:24 I read documentation... 17:00:34 Well, whenever there is one of course. 17:00:41 -!- devon`` [~devon@2001:470:8b2d:7fc:a800:ff:febf:caf9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:11 Shinmera: Great! I'll let my wife know. She writes documentation. 17:01:11 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:38 Too many projects go undocumented. 17:05:13 antgreen [~green@67-207-116-150.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:56 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 17:10:30 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:11:00 documentation is overrated 17:11:16 just give out the maintainer's email address! 17:13:21 travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has joined #lisp 17:14:39 -!- ManateeLazyCat [~user@61.183.179.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:10 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:43 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:18:28 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:59 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-148-192.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:23:07 I'd give out the maintainer's *home* address :) 17:29:14 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ehzwwpstfglfyewz] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:31:35 travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has joined #lisp 17:32:17 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-pxayquouinqqfcww] has joined #lisp 17:33:24 *Yanez* would really like to be writing CL now instead of what he needs to write... 17:33:42 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:34:19 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:34:44 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:20 alzamos [8b993032@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.139.153.48.50] has joined #lisp 17:35:27 *stassats`* would really like to be laying on a tropical beach with cocktails instead of writing anything 17:36:19 -!- axion [~axion@70.197.198.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:30 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:38:56 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.16.128] has joined #lisp 17:40:37 -!- the_TORmentor [~the_TORme@unaffiliated/the-tormentor/x-3958522] has left #lisp 17:40:58 -!- pjb is now known as tropical 17:41:45 -!- tropical is now known as pjb 17:42:42 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:51 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:42 what about writing CL code on a tropical beach with cocktails? :) 17:45:57 b 17:49:38 -!- alzamos [8b993032@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.139.153.48.50] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:55:00 kwmiebach__ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-98-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:18 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:39 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h85.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:57:32 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 17:57:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:14 brb 17:58:16 axion [~axion@28.sub-70-197-198.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:18 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has quit [Quit: Yanez] 17:58:40 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-110-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:01 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:01:45 Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has joined #lisp 18:02:46 -!- antgreen [~green@67-207-116-150.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:30 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:08:35 travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has joined #lisp 18:11:38 Aramur [~arare@9.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:51 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:12:46 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.107.241] has joined #lisp 18:12:50 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:13:28 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:13:42 -!- diadara__ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:14:31 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:14:35 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has left #lisp 18:14:49 Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has joined #lisp 18:15:33 -!- blaaa [541a018c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.26.1.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:17:15 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:19 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-211-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:54 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.84] has joined #lisp 18:20:36 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has quit [Quit: Yanez] 18:21:22 Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has joined #lisp 18:22:26 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:10 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 18:23:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:23:40 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.205.123] has joined #lisp 18:23:43 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 18:23:44 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:23:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.205.123] has quit [Changing host] 18:23:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:24:03 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@205.186.144.72] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-17-175.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:42 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@205.186.144.72] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.69.9] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:27:43 k0001 [~k0001@host85.190-229-167.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:15 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.69.9] has joined #lisp 18:29:28 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@205.186.144.72] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:02 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:07 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@205.186.144.72] has joined #lisp 18:31:40 what's the deal with lisp.paste.org? 18:31:41 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:33:04 paste.lisp.org! 18:33:18 that's the deal 18:34:43 yes, but it says... 18:34:44 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.16.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:03 Lisppaste is available in 0 channels on the IRC network Freenode 18:35:07 is this normal? 18:36:45 yeah, the link thing is messed up, just copy a link here yourself. 18:37:49 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:38:07 travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has joined #lisp 18:38:12 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:30 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 http://pase.lisp.org 18:39:52 if that's down it's down! 18:40:06 ups http://paste.lisp.org 18:40:27 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 18:40:57 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:42:57 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #lisp 18:43:50 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-211-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:22 *jaimef* wonders if anyone actually uses the commercial lisps in prod 18:44:24 vs say sbcl 18:45:40 *Yanez* uses Allegro 18:45:41 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has joined #lisp 18:45:47 I'm sure people do. If they did not, then the commercial lisps would be out of business by now. 18:46:04 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has quit [Changing host] 18:46:04 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 18:46:38 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-14C802BB.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:46:55 jaimef: they do, check the public mailing lists of some commercial lisp systems 18:46:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:57 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.115.47.212] has left #lisp 18:52:38 billstclair [~billstcla@p-67-158-178-103.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-67-158-178-103.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:52:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:52:38 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:16 k0001_ [~k0001@host207.186-125-109.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:58:40 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:59:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host85.190-229-167.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:26 -!- axion [~axion@28.sub-70-197-198.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:00:33 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:00:54 abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.228.45.69] has joined #lisp 19:01:28 ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.36] has joined #lisp 19:02:29 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:02:56 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:28 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:29 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:50 -!- tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:38 mie3 [~other@94.25.228.48] has joined #lisp 19:10:41 hi 19:10:54 why "Dick" is a legal name? 19:11:24 it's a synonim for peenus, isn't it? 19:11:41 it's tracy! 19:11:42 lol 19:12:21 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D30E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:34 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:07 actually it stands for Richard, as far as I know :) 19:13:30 mie3: .. pretty weird place to ask that question 19:14:27 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:54 p_l: whats your name? 19:15:12 Is this a turing test? 19:15:26 Shinmera: its a Dick test. 19:15:26 if it is, it has already failed :) 19:15:38 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 19:15:51 p_l: please no 19:16:00 I'm not doing anything... yet 19:16:14 the @ just signifies "weapons free" 19:16:17 mie3: do you have anything lisp-related to say? 19:17:17 Yanez: yes, i have 19:17:28 mie3: the difference between "Helping your Ungle Jack, off his horse." and "Helping your uncle jack off his horse.". 19:17:35 s/gle/cle/ 19:17:41 mie3: then go ahead 19:18:13 "dick" is not "Dick", duh! 19:18:41 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-cdcee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: exit(EXIT_FAILURE);] 19:20:23 foeniks [~fevon@p5091F862.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:39 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:22:56 Yanez: i can dick in compile time http://ideone.com/mnfJu9 19:23:01 -!- mie3 [~other@94.25.228.48] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:23:22 great... 19:25:19 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:40 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:46 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:04 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:12 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.84] has joined #lisp 19:29:31 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:30:08 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:31:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:32:38 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D107.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:46 enarixoi [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:33:53 -!- enarixoi [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:34:53 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:26 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:26 urandom__ [~user@p548A2EF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:07 mie3 [~other@94.25.228.48] has joined #lisp 19:39:18 i want to became member of the community 19:40:36 Well, speaking of carrier killing moves 19:42:01 I were you, I'd change of IP address, of nickname, and of behavior. 19:42:18 pjb: you're not were me! 19:42:29 mie3: what's 1 + 1? 19:42:34 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:45 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:51 it's another! 19:43:14 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:44:27 macdice: if 1=2 then 4. 19:44:34 macdice: i can proof 1=2. 19:44:52 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:43 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:46:05 what sort of problem do you want to solve with lisp? 19:46:12 enarixoi [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:46:28 macdice: excees of free time 19:46:36 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:46:41 -!- enarixoi [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:46:45 that is a great luxury 19:46:54 why spend it on lisp in particular? 19:47:04 macdice: because i can 19:47:44 good answer. 19:48:19 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:48:58 enarixoi [~rebetiko@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:49:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:49:35 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 19:49:50 -!- enarixoi [~rebetiko@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:50:15 mie4 [~other@94.25.228.54] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 macdice: did you said something after i said "becasue i can"? 19:51:00 enarixoi [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:51:20 no. i was contemplating 19:51:23 -!- mie3 [~other@94.25.228.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:56 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:52:12 so what are you going to do with your free time and lisp? 19:52:32 macdice: (loop (sleep 1)) 19:52:35 massage my brain ?! 19:52:50 -!- enarixoi [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:52:56 if they left any.... 19:52:57 lol 19:53:24 macdice: i think i can build a game, text one 19:53:39 cool 19:53:48 mie4: Casting Spels in Lisp Conrad Barski, M.D. http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 19:54:25 with ncurses and stuff, and i'll be sure to make designe of that game so agile so it'll be posible to render it in opengl as well after i'll reach that point 19:54:30 pjb: thanks 19:55:07 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.107.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:55:42 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:55:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:56:10 boring y'all, avast scurvy dog 19:56:17 -!- mie4 [~other@94.25.228.54] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:29 do you plan to render lo-fi graphics with ncurses? 19:56:30 -!- Aramur [~arare@9.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 19:57:05 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:57:52 *macdice* was not familiar with that pirate banter 19:58:10 avast -- from dutch pirate talk: 'hou vast', hold fast 20:00:24 In lispworks does matter what is cursor position when compilling? 20:01:36 axion [~axion@127.sub-70-197-192.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:16 tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has joined #lisp 20:04:26 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jbflfekccfvjkbxt] has joined #lisp 20:05:06 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 20:06:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:26 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:09:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:09:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.205.123] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.205.123] has quit [Changing host] 20:09:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:15:44 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:57 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 20:18:05 -!- ggole [~ggole@203-59-85-169.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:18:05 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 20:19:46 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:34 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 20:22:49 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-160.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:39 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:25:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-99-207.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:28 uuh [~qicruser@77-57-2-147.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:26:31 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:28:31 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 20:29:05 -!- uuh [~qicruser@77-57-2-147.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:50 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:00 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p5091F862.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 20:31:22 foeniks [~fevon@p5091F862.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-23-26-6-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:10 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:37:16 emacs-dw` [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:52 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 20:38:24 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 20:38:31 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jbflfekccfvjkbxt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:39 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 20:40:36 arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 20:40:51 -!- arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:22 uuh [~qicruser@77-57-2-147.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:41:22 -!- uuh [~qicruser@77-57-2-147.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:43:48 -!- emacs-dw` [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:14 -!- arnas [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:14 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D107.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:04 InfusoElAmbulant [~nonononon@ont-213-141-46-147.telecable.es] has joined #lisp 20:51:53 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:47 arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 20:59:38 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:01:22 Hello, I've tried to create a simple window with glfw but I get (SB-KERNEL::UNDEFINED-ALIEN-FUNCTION-ERROR). I've copied the example from the CLinch tutorial, can anyone help me? no solution found on google 21:03:34 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:38 -!- brmj [444631d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.70.49.208] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:04:48 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-uumodnpmdedcnatz] has joined #lisp 21:04:48 oh, and it comes from ("foreign function: call_into_lisp") 21:05:24 joquer [ba617b70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.97.123.112] has joined #lisp 21:06:09 there are a channel in Spanish? 21:06:31 don't know of any for Common Lisp 21:06:37 don't know, but I'm from spain 21:06:46 there was, I think, a french-speaking one 21:06:56 not much of spanish channels in freenode 21:08:11 the_TORmentor [~the_TORme@unaffiliated/the-tormentor/x-3958522] has joined #lisp 21:08:14 -!- the_TORmentor [~the_TORme@unaffiliated/the-tormentor/x-3958522] has left #lisp 21:09:00 -!- krrrcks [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:15 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:10:13 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:20 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11:36 krrrcks [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:31 InfusoElAmbulant: it doesn't come from call_into_lisp in reality 21:12:50 well its the next in stack trace 21:14:01 that's a part of error reporting 21:15:02 but I've seen same error on google not coming from call_into_lisp 21:15:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:32 what can be the cause? 21:15:47 cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 21:15:57 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 21:16:01 no library loaded, no such function 21:16:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 21:16:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:16:28 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:16:48 *jaimef* wonders if allegro/lispworks supports all the quicklisp stuff 21:17:32 I've wrote the same code from the example, (ql:quickload "cl-glfw") reported no errors 21:19:26 Is there any way in SBCL to increment debug output? 21:19:44 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:02 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-160.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:05 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:14 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:20:45 does anyone know how to specify a 'default regex route' in hunchentoot that catches all 404 not found pages? i really dont want to edit and use the error templates or mess withthe dispatch table manually. 21:21:35 The simplest way is to just push a catchall handler onto the end of the dispatch list... 21:22:24 i tried #'append without luck. 21:22:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:23:51 The dispatching function you make needs to return a function that returns the content to be sent. 21:24:13 Natch [~Natch@c-cdcee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:25:34 Shinmera: yes i was following a thread on the mailing list....they were using some function called 'push-end-new' whih i'm not sure how it works...other than that i do have the 2 funtions 21:25:39 soo many choices in runtimes 21:25:41 but it was not working 21:26:10 but push-end-new is not shown...so i dont know how it works 21:26:28 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:35 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:07 -!- InfusoElAmbulant [~nonononon@ont-213-141-46-147.telecable.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:27:18 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:59 I'm guessing it adds a new element to the end of a list, rather than the front. 21:28:08 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:28:40 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:55 yeah me too, but doesnt create the route for me 21:29:08 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:16 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:23 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:51 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:30:35 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31:04 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 21:31:24 (setf (cdr (last hunchentoot::*dispatch-table*)) (cons (lambda () (lambda () "Foo!")))) 21:31:27 try that 21:31:48 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:58 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:32:09 Wait, whoops, should be (cons .. NIL) 21:33:31 ok i got a route for all 404's...but something failed...backtrace instead of your string 21:34:00 invalid number of arguments: 1 21:34:04 I forgot if the handler needs to accept the request ob- yeah 21:34:42 so change it to be (cons (lambda (request) (declare (ignore request)) (lambda () "Foo!")) NIL) 21:34:57 can't you just use define-easy-handler? 21:35:43 I thought I had a reason why I didn't use that in my code, but I'd have to check again. 21:37:03 (define-easy-handler (name :uri (constantly t)) () "NIL") 21:38:25 if you want to ensure that it's always at the end, you can see what define-easy-handler does, and duplicate it, except for appending to the end 21:38:45 that define-easy-handler doesnt work for me 21:40:34 then you're not using easy handlers, or haven't started hunchentoot at all 21:40:47 stassats`: I think the handlers are on a separate table from dispatchers and a special dispatcher invokes a handler if necessary. So if someone meddles with the dispatch table you won't get any handlers. 21:42:15 Shinmera: thanks finally got your way to work 21:42:22 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:43:38 ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.36] has joined #lisp 21:45:29 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 21:46:08 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p5091F862.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:16 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has quit [Quit: Yanez] 21:47:01 -!- joquer [ba617b70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.97.123.112] has left #lisp 21:47:15 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:38 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 21:47:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:27 ChrisKohlhepp [~user@101.119.14.210] has joined #lisp 21:49:00 the only problem now is i have defpage macros to generate dynamic routes and they seem to be pushed after the catch-all so some things not working 21:49:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:00 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-14-33.2075264485.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:14 -!- ChrisKohlhepp [~user@101.119.14.210] has left #lisp 21:54:55 argoneus [~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus] has joined #lisp 21:54:57 -!- argoneus [~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus] has left #lisp 21:57:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:58:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:59:48 chriskohlhepp [~user@101.119.14.210] has joined #lisp 22:01:18 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZ] 22:01:36 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:01:37 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:02:00 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 22:03:15 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-211-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:33 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:08:45 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:10 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:09:20 OK, so: quick-build support for all asdf users with asdf-package-system 22:10:51 desophos [~desophos@n163h85.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 22:11:14 swflint-tab [~swflint@fsf/member/swflint] has joined #lisp 22:12:06 -!- chriskohlhepp [~user@101.119.14.210] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:14 -!- naeg [~naeg@unaffiliated/naeg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:52 is it OK to preempt the interface/ pure/ stateful system and package namespace prefixes? Or should I prefix everything with lil ? 22:13:01 naeg [~naeg@unaffiliated/naeg] has joined #lisp 22:14:27 -!- Guest12579 is now known as xristos 22:18:36 http://this-plt-life.tumblr.com/post/36425230125/when-i-try-to-design-an-extension-or-alternative-to hahaha 22:22:07 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 22:23:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c0fc-28.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:38 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:21 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:29 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:45 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:37:21 -!- arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [] 22:38:02 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:38:40 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-29-167.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:39:04 -!- bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-29-167.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51:11 -!- axion [~axion@127.sub-70-197-192.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:52:35 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:59:45 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-60.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:55 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-uumodnpmdedcnatz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03:40 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-160.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:41 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:09:33 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:08 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:14 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h85.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24:35 -!- chenjf [~chenjf@112.90.222.158] has left #lisp 23:26:15 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:12 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:33:48 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:34:16 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:31 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:50 pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 23:37:19 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9D107.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:20 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:44:02 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:49:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:52:16 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:10 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]