00:01:03 I've been using `require' to load ASDF systems in SBCL. Either code that I've wrote or even the ones found in quicklisp. It all works very nicely. Is this the right way to load systems? 00:01:28 it's nonportable. 00:01:39 oic 00:02:29 I'm not requiring them inside my source files though. 00:02:30 00:02:55 I just describe the dependencies inside my .asd file. 00:02:57 not such a big deal, then. but you could still use quickload instead. 00:03:10 <|3b|> on some implementations (like sbcl) REQUIRE just calls asdf for things that didn't come with the implementation 00:04:33 <|3b|> so it isn't exactly wrong, but it won't work the same everywhere 00:04:52 Ishpeck [~ishpeck@72.250.218.116] has joined #lisp 00:07:16 Understood. Thank you. As I'm typing the `require' expressions inside my SBCL system, it appears I will not have problems with it. I'm guessing the right way to load dependencies is to describe them inside the .asd file and let the implementation figure out what to do, right? As I'm doing it. 00:07:44 that's the right way to describe dependencies to the system as you're already doing 00:08:12 asdf takes that description and uses it to load the system; and require just uses asdf 00:08:52 Cool. Thank you. 00:09:29 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-49-57.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:10:04 arrsim [~user@27-32-235-88.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:11:14 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:30 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:44 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 00:15:23 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:07 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:22:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:23:08 -!- pyml [~pyml@c-24-23-243-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pyml] 00:25:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:42 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:26:40 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:02 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:28:36 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317373.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:31:54 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-70-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:50 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:51 coder_ [~chatzilla@p5491A1BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:34:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:31 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 00:39:49 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:00 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:41:12 didi: require will work on ABCL, Allegro CL, Clozure CL, CMUCL, ECL, GNU CLISP, LispWorks, MKCL, SBCL and XCL. 00:41:36 that's quite portable. 00:41:56 Fare: I /just/ read this from ASDF manual. Talk about timing. ;^) 00:42:03 and you may as well rely on it at the repl — though it's frowned upon when writing portable code. 00:42:16 and not on opengenera? what a tragedy! 00:43:26 -!- coder_ [~chatzilla@p5491A1BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [SeaMonkey 2.20/20130803203006]] 00:45:01 or GCL, SCL, RMCL, CormanCL :) 00:45:29 -!- gendl [~gendl@98.250.10.50] has quit [Quit: gendl] 00:47:14 -!- Aramur [~arare@9.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 00:47:15 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 00:49:42 -!- harish_ [~harish@119.56.127.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:13 echo-area [~user@123.120.227.31] has joined #lisp 00:50:28 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52:02 hwiersma [~hwiersma@205.250.11.18] has joined #lisp 00:54:06 -!- genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:54:08 -!- mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:54:46 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:57:22 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.214] has joined #lisp 00:58:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:32 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:00:15 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:20 When loading a compiled file "load-time" is the time just before each form executes - is that right. I know it sounds like a very basic question but I just had a subtle bug bite me re load time and execute time. 01:01:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:01:54 load time is from the beginning of load until the end 01:02:04 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.214] has joined #lisp 01:03:55 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-49-57.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:05:31 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:08:41 -!- joneshf-laptop_ [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:50 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.124.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:11:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.124.52] has joined #lisp 01:13:05 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21:41 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:17 AjaxJK [coderzoner@c-98-193-7-31.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:04 is there any AI that interacts like a human being that i could download ? 01:25:18 minion: do you interact with human beings? 01:25:18 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to interact with human beings 01:27:14 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.197.172] has joined #lisp 01:27:25 AjaxJK: if you have emacs, you don't need to download anything, just type M-x doctor 01:28:17 k ill look at it 01:29:55 nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-129-118.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:25 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-129-118.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:38 nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-129-118.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:52 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-129-186.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:58 it would be cool if there a desktop enviroment that acts like a human 01:31:11 something liek siri i supsoe but for a computer 01:31:29 i am just logging into my bsd ..gonna see what that does in emacs 01:33:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:36:39 -!- Worp [Omicron@dsl-173-206-70-62.tor.primus.ca] has quit [] 01:40:05 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.88.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:40:26 svs__ [~svs@173-9-51-157-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:54 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-99.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:51 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:15 -!- mlamari [~quassel@72.183.103.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:34 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-30-218.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 01:47:37 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 01:47:47 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.88.58] has joined #lisp 01:48:42 mxdocotor 01:48:47 mmmxdoctor 01:48:53 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:52 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:56:28 konr [uid14206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jovtzzwaeyzxxfkk] has joined #lisp 01:57:31 -!- tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:32 -!- Ishpeck [~ishpeck@72.250.218.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:50 Doctor is awesome a 02:00:55 a bit of a dick 02:01:07 aw|incendiary_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 02:01:19 and the idea is almost 50 years old 02:01:24 nice 02:01:25 i like it 02:01:30 see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA 02:01:47 this is still in work 02:01:51 i mean do people stillw ork on it ? 02:01:57 yes 02:01:57 not really 02:02:16 there are plenty of spamchatbots that are descendants of ELIZA. 02:02:38 Fare: i doubt people who spam are capable of extending it 02:03:19 lol yea 02:03:24 because this would kinda work 02:03:24 it's a data-driven industry — it takes only one guy to sell his expertise to improve spamchatting, assuming it increases numbers, which it probably does. 02:03:39 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:03:42 if not, there's a golden opportunity for us in spam! 02:04:26 -!- aw|incendiary [~zacharias@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:06:20 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:32 OK, let's imagine I have a library with plenty of CL code I want to open source 02:10:05 is it OK to publish a raw excerpt from a larger system that doesn't even compile properly, because it's missing bits and scripts? 02:10:08 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-bosllzklhvrkklsy] has joined #lisp 02:10:44 Fare, sure why not. Does everything everyone publishes have to be diamonds? 02:10:57 -!- seangrov` [~user@194.29.229.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:33 Quadrescence: i'd publish coal 02:11:50 that's what all my stuff is 02:12:16 it's one step from being a diamond! 02:12:45 :) 02:12:47 I have a truckload of coal for you 02:13:17 of course, with history stripped, too 02:13:25 it's raw coal 02:13:26 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 02:13:35 code dumps never hurt anyone 02:13:46 coal dumps have, though 02:13:51 git allows to rewrite history 02:14:06 i separated some projects while splitting commits 02:14:08 mostly never helped anyone either, but there's always the high profile exception :-) 02:14:12 Fare, great publish it 02:14:22 though when a committ straddles some files you'll have to do it manually 02:15:06 now I'm wondering how much of the build scripts and Makefile to publish or not 02:15:48 a lot of the code is NIH crap, frankly, but some of it is potentially helpful 02:15:55 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:06 oh... then there's the code that links against oracle libraries... 02:17:24 code dumps can be treasure troves, and especially appeal to cyberdumpster divers like me 02:27:33 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:31:32 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:31:32 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:32:08 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 02:35:57 -!- danielszmulewi-1 [~daniel@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewi-1] 02:38:38 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:51 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:53 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:51:40 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:01:15 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:46 OK, starting the process. 03:10:23 may take a few days to extract the code and minimally clean it up. 03:14:34 Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-68-119.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:21 Salutations. I'm working on a little CAD like library for precision shape drawing. http://paste.ofcode.org/bcxys8MgAdZ3xDsDDY4jSm 03:15:44 I need to get the 3D functions out of there though. I decided to just do 2D. :) 03:15:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:58 unadorned float constants, very nice (though they're pretty obvious 03:16:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:17:23 Anonymous constants. 03:18:18 I still need to get line segment to line segment intersection. I can already to a series of triangles to simulate any polygon being picked with the point in side triangle function. 03:18:24 when working with usocket, is there a way to send a whole vector of bytes that is better than (loop for b over vec do (write-byte b stream))? 03:18:37 macdice: can you use write-sequence 03:19:00 Ryan_Burnside: also, (if ... nil t) is (not ...) 03:19:32 Ryan_Burnside: did you have a question about it or should i continue nitpicking 03:19:39 Bike: thanks 03:19:48 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:21:47 Pick away. 03:22:37 envia [~envia@unaffiliated/envia] has joined #lisp 03:22:42 well, definitely write (* degrees 1/180 pi) and such instead of using literals 03:23:24 Worp [Omicron@dsl-173-206-70-62.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 03:24:25 looks like you're using lists instead of multiple values 03:25:37 I thought the point of Lisp was passing lists? 03:26:02 no, you couldn't be more wrong 03:26:15 Is that just older style then? 03:26:32 no 03:26:40 it's "i don't know lisp" style 03:26:49 lists are just convenient for some things. they're not really a very good data structure, all around :p 03:27:12 other than multiple values you could make structs or classes for points, that sorta stuff 03:27:14 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:28:25 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:29:39 when using multi values for passing around [immediate] values, is heap allocation avoided? 03:29:56 yes 03:30:19 any values, not immediate 03:30:59 multiple values may not even touch memory at all 03:31:42 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 03:34:52 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.197.172] has left #lisp 03:39:20 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:47:32 Is the Common Lisp compile-file expected to set the *,**,*** +,++,+++ etc variables for each form? 03:47:43 no 03:47:55 that would be pretty bizarre 03:48:12 Yippee! I was starting to sweat that one. Does it say somewhere that they aren't necessary? 03:48:30 it says in the entry on them that they're for the REPL. 03:48:32 clhs +/v 03:48:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pl_plp.htm 03:49:51 I thought compile-file generated a series of compiled forms and when they are loaded the compiled code is evaluated (that's what I do). So I thought that was a sort of read-eval-print-loop. 03:50:15 it's nowhere near a repl 03:50:23 that would be part of load, not compile-file... 03:50:43 anyway, nobody would expect you to do that, is the point. 03:50:53 Yes, that is the point. 03:51:00 it would be a bug 03:51:52 I'm just digging around in that code again - I discovered a subtle bug that came up with how I handle compiled literals and load-time-values (again - sigh). 03:52:58 When I load a compiled file, I first initialize an array of every symbol that is accessed by the compiled file. Problem is if there is a DEFPACKAGE in the file then symbols were being created for packages that didn't exist yet. 03:53:53 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:39 The solution (I think) is for every top-level-form initialize literals and load-time-values that that form uses just prior to evaluating the form. 03:54:48 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:55:15 -!- Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-68-119.hlna.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:35 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:17 -!- svs__ [~svs@173-9-51-157-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:01 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@199.108.71.44] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:01:41 setmeaway [setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 04:02:52 for a code tarball — .tar.gz ? dump the stuff on github ? 04:02:59 awygle1 [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has joined #lisp 04:03:11 the latter, naturally 04:04:06 meh 04:04:19 the code won't even build 04:04:39 it will just be something for people to extract code from, and THEN put on github 04:06:37 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 04:09:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:23 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 04:10:06 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-scoctsfmpdisotpn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10:13 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:11:58 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:12:15 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:13:50 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:34 Would anyone ever wrap a CATCH around a (LOAD "xxx.fasl") where the code in "xxx.fasl" would THROW and expect to be caught by the outer CATCH? 04:18:04 it is legal 04:18:52 if your non local exits are properly implemented, you shouldn't care about such things 04:19:00 I know it sounds a bit bizarre but I'm using dlopen to load my "fasl" files and I'm reading that exception handling won't cross out of dlopen calls. 04:20:04 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:10 dlopen executes code? 04:20:19 More accurately - I'd like to use dlopen initializer functions and I don't think they are allowed to throw exceptions. 04:21:38 Yeah, dlopen will call initializer functions - but if they throw an exception then it aborts (segfaults? I don't know). Currently I don't use dlopen initializers. 04:21:48 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:21:57 trying to bolt cl non local exit constructs on top of some other things is a losing proposition 04:22:32 tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has joined #lisp 04:23:24 No - my current approach works fine - the itanium exception handling abi is perfectly capable of handling Common Lisp non-local exits. 04:24:00 itanium? 04:24:25 i thought your implementation was portable 04:24:28 http://llvm.org/docs/ExceptionHandling.html 04:24:57 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:25:00 can you even have c++ code with __attribute__((constructor))? i honestly don't know 04:27:07 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317373.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:27:43 You can always call extern "C". But I was thinking of working with it at a lower level in the LLVM module you can set a global variable called llvm.global_ctors (I think that's what __attribute__((constructor)) uses under the hood). But if I can't get exceptions to propagate out of the ctors I can't use it. 04:27:50 drmeister: i just asked a c++ person what would happen and they suggested: "try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light" so maybe keep that in mind. 04:28:20 drmeister: could you have it work with dlerror somehow? 04:28:58 Oh pish-posh. Those people in the C++ are neanderthals. 04:29:21 drmeister: he's a "c++ person" in that he knows more c++ than me, and so do you, so watch out! 04:29:22 "in the C++ irc channel". 04:29:31 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:29:39 oh, not there 04:30:30 if you rely on special dlopen features, you can kiss portability between OSes goodbye 04:30:36 I'm sure your friend is a perfectly nice person - he would have to be. I'm talking about the layabouts in ##c++ 04:30:38 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-111-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:28 worry about catch and throw specifically seems odd. probably something that wouldn't happen, but normal condition handling would 04:31:44 stassats: I'm only really interested in OS X and linux on supercomputers. If I want more portability later there is always #ifdef/#endif 04:31:52 pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 04:31:53 #cv 04:32:09 ILTWYS"there's always" 04:32:25 mikeit [~mikeit@net-93-65-150-84.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 04:32:36 ILTWYS - what does that mean? 04:32:37 i.e. if there's a load-time error, I'd expect to be able to handle it 04:32:53 My apologies. Emacs switched buffers on me. 04:33:22 Is there an IRC client for emacs? I never thought of that. 04:33:31 drmesiter: ERC 04:33:34 a dozen? 04:33:46 drmeister (sorry): ERC 04:34:09 I just found that - huh - I'll have to look into it. 04:34:16 Thanks! 04:34:45 stassats: dlerror is posix and he already seems pretty committed to whatever llvm does 04:35:06 drmeister: Glad my mistake helped someone. Heh 04:36:42 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:36:58 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:14 Bike: doesn't help with windows 04:37:39 and there are always some bizarre strict/lazy interpretations of POSIX 04:37:42 Yeah - I have no idea how exception handling in LLVM works on something like ARM chips - I never thought of that. Anyway - all my exception handling code is in CL macros - so it's no big deal. 04:37:44 just like with clisp 04:38:16 _d3f [~gnu@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 04:38:17 [11:24:00] itanium? 04:38:49 stassats: everyone (for some value of everyone (being gcc, clang)) uses the itanium C++ ABI on x86, x86-64, etc. 04:38:55 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-9-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:39:04 meister` [~user@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:24 what an unfortunate name then 04:39:54 That may be 04:40:56 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:16 ERC works great! 04:41:25 -!- meister` [~user@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:43:14 -!- pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has left #lisp 04:44:30 -!- Worp [Omicron@dsl-173-206-70-62.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:45:38 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 04:45:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 04:45:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:47:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.68.63] has joined #lisp 04:47:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.68.63] has quit [Changing host] 04:47:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:51:42 ASau` [~user@p5797EF75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:52:45 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 04:54:51 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF967C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:58:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.238] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:00:18 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:26 ggole [~ggole@124-169-49-nwork.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:04:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:09:47 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.124.52] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:10:54 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-9-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:01 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-156-29.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:41 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-129-118.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:11:55 enderoute [~user@50.0.192.21] has joined #lisp 05:13:09 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:55 i have a asdf system that everytime i load it, cffi complains it cant load a lib. the name of the library its trying to load is .so i'm on mac os x so dynamic librarys are named .dylib. Is there someway to setup cffi so I do have to manually specify how to load the lib each time i load the system? 05:15:11 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.192.79.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:32 *so I don't have to specify how to load each time 05:19:20 i'm pretty sure that's part of define-foreign-library 05:19:25 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.222.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:21:00 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:21:16 (cffi:define-foreign-library libgfortran.so.3 (:darwin "libgfortran.dylib")) i tried this, no luck 05:26:35 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:44 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.238] has joined #lisp 05:29:33 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-84-187.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:30:04 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-84-187.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:16 -!- attila_lendvai 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[Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:41 -!- arrsim [~user@27-32-235-88.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:02 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:11:46 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:11 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:18:13 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-248-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:19:00 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-154-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:21:52 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:59 -!- Guest53100 [~knob@66-50-90-125.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:24:12 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:44 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 06:27:56 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:03 quazimodo [~quazimodo@14-200-126-134.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:29:23 -!- desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:25 I think that syntax might be off 06:33:13 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl1.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 06:36:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:37:08 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:08 06:37:08 -!- names: ccl-logbot Anarch ltbarcly oleo kiuma joneshf-laptop maxter Praise- mishoo Harag alezost BlankVerse jack_rabbit edgar-rft paul0 nug700 ggole nipra ASau` mrSpec sellout- mikeit kushal chu setmeaway envia pranavrc drmeister motionman Bike harish_ aw|incendiary_ konr DataLinkDroid antgreen AjaxJK mv2devnul Vutral hwiersma echo-area McMAGIC--Copy patrickwonders Codynyx victor_lowther igotnolegs- sirdancealo2 doesthiswork pok abeaumont prxq_ wyan kcj nisstyre 06:37:08 -!- names: Yang__ Adlai daimrod 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hellome felideon isaacbw GuilOooo copec jayne scharan jdz smull cods mmathis samebchase gf3 Guest25276 AntiSpamMeta Zhivago fikusz rk[imposter] ft REPLeffect Krystof phadthai expez sigjuice gluegadget fmu____ bhyde sauerkrause clop finnrobi dsp_ j0ni rvirding hiyosi ramus subtlepath shifty wormphlegm ski Tristam spacefrogg^ Khisanth koisoke schoppenhauer sweet_kid devon`` yano flip214 hyperboreean 06:37:08 -!- names: balle wilfredh ashp cYmen tkd ``Erik willyfrog ozzloy eak benny KingNato_ hypno optikalmouse wddd Amadiro Tarential H4ns luis` sfa ThePhoeron Jubb ivan fmu dfox s00pcan maxpeck CampinSam cibs nightfly em krrrcks naeg sjl oconnore antoszka TristamWrk PuffTheMagic feorex djinni` kirin` tessier sykopomp ferada guaqua sytse pjb MoALTz Oddity quotemstr eagleflo mcsontos kpreid BlastHardcheese Mandus naryl matko zenoli doomlord_ robot-beethoven Kruppe foom 06:37:08 -!- names: sbryant gko ahungry Sourceless cpape rvchangue __main__ arrsim` ragnul milosn rtoym loke aeth hugod abend_ DrForr _schulte1 Neptu Posterdati gabot hpd varjag cyphase Ralt froggey karupa64 Borbus_ asedeno_ otwieracz mal____ Adeon deadghost_ vnz PuercoPop nitro_idiot_ jasom_ cpt_nemo ianmcorvidae|alt purentity _death guyal bege ggherdov add^_ ashish sword arbscht brmj joast robsmoniker par igorw nicdev justinmcp xristos Roin Wukix kilo EvW joneshf-work 06:37:08 -!- names: sontek photex Quadrescence m4dnificent macdice ryankarason jsnell ckoch786 housel ineiros eMBee Kabaka dmiles_afk CMz jaimef mikaelj zmyrgel Tordek minion vh0st- mshroyer zbigniew 06:46:02 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 06:48:28 quazimodo [~quazimodo@14-200-126-134.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:49:07 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:50:12 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-kvaawnxzwwrzrsfy] has joined #lisp 06:50:23 arrsim [~user@27-32-235-88.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:52:43 varjagg 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-!- k0001_ [~k0001@host89.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:43 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:21 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.168.90.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:25 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:46:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:46:19 -!- envia [~envia@70-138-245-82.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:46 envia [~envia@70-138-245-82.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:28 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:56:11 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:01:38 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:04:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:06:29 -!- envia [~envia@70-138-245-82.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:19 Is there no way of getting READ-SEQUENCE to read as much as it can, and then returning even if the array isn't filled? 08:07:34 It seems difficult even implement buffered reading 08:08:16 I believe that sbcl has some alternative that does what you've described. 08:08:24 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:52 How does things like Hunchentoot do it? It can't possibly be reading byte-by-byte? 08:09:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:52 ah 08:10:02 CHUNGA:MAKE-CHUNKED-STREAM 08:10:29 why not? 08:10:46 jdz: because it's slow as molases 08:11:47 stream implementations already do the buffering 08:12:05 envia [~envia@70-138-245-82.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:22 loke: depending on what you need to do 08:13:38 keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has joined #lisp 08:15:40 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 08:17:06 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:09 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 08:19:28 hmm. chunga was not what I was looking for 08:22:34 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 08:22:48 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:55 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:24:48 serejkus [~elantsev@2a02:6b8:0:40c:1127:5d13:2238:4188] has joined #lisp 08:26:49 -!- envia [~envia@70-138-245-82.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:05 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:07 envia [~envia@70-138-245-82.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:52 maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:20 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 08:34:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-191.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:54 -!- maxter [~maxter@sundownness.lullaby.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:36:25 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 Hello, why haven't patch from this bug's comments got accepted and merged into master? https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1028026 08:40:52 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@205.250.11.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:41:15 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-218-178-237.lnse4.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:41:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:42:34 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:cc12:49b9:519:e041] has joined #lisp 08:43:23 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.88.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:43:35 Okasu: no idea. you could also try asking #sbcl 08:43:49 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 08:44:41 samebchase: Already did. 08:45:42 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@14-200-126-134.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:43 hm 08:46:12 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 08:46:49 this channel's more active after about 10 hours from now. 08:47:51 samebchase: Yeah, thats expected, i'll wait. 08:49:57 what does the CL community think of clojure? 08:50:25 CL community does not think about clojure 08:50:29 heh 08:50:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:51:26 -!- serejkus [~elantsev@2a02:6b8:0:40c:1127:5d13:2238:4188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:10 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-102-32.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:54:29 isaacbw: individual lispers who bothered to check it out have vastly different oppinions ranging to it being a waste of time, to being pretty neat, no consistent community oppinion is available :) But that is OT, so go ask #clojure what they think of common lisp :D 09:01:50 isaacbw: It's has less mess, and less power, and it's jvm language, more libs, more people on irc channel(i guess active community is bigger), more immutability. I think thats all. Did few projects in clojure, it's neat for web dev. And still i'm here using CL, struggling with SBCL bugs. 09:02:14 And yes, this is OT. 09:02:45 meh, does it really have to be off topic. 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[~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:59 i finally got around to start a slime branch with multiple inspectors; works-for-me, but if anyone's interested, i'd love some feedback (C-u on inspector functions asks for a name, e.g. C-u C-I, otherwise it's 'default) 13:28:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:29:08 -!- LiamH [~none@129.2.129.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:35 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-49-57.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:50 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl1.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:32:55 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:36:12 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has left #lisp 13:36:53 -!- brown` is now known as reb` 13:42:51 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:42:56 -!- ksinkar [~koustubhs@115.111.107.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:35 normanrichards 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leaving] 16:00:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:37 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:00:52 -!- codeberg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:17 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:26 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:29 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:05:43 -!- abend_ is now known as abend 16:06:19 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:42 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:46 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:00 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:15:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:16:45 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:54 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:20:54 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@205.250.11.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:23:44 k0001 [~k0001@host89.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:25:24 I asked this question yesterday but I thought I'd solicit a few more opinions. 16:26:00 How important is it to be able to THROW a tag within a (LOAD "xxx.fasl") and CATCH it outside of the (LOAD "xxx.fasl")? 16:26:35 Say xxx.fasl contains (THROW 'goofy 999) and I evaluate (print (catch 'goofy (load "xxx.fasl"))) 16:27:02 you didn't answer my question on whether you truly mean just throw and catch, or all kinds of nlx 16:27:03 it uses the same mechanism as errors, if you can't handle error, you're in trouble 16:27:18 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:27:22 I'm asking because I'm implementing LOAD and there is one easy way to do it using dlopen and initializers but it doesn't allow the propagation of exceptions across dlopen (as far as I read). 16:27:28 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:05 jsnell: Sorry - I might have missed your question - what do you mean by "all kinds of nlx". 16:28:08 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:28:22 non-local exits 16:28:22 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:58 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:29:06 if there are load-time errors, I'd be very surprised to not be able to handle them 16:29:09 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:18 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:22 The only non-local-exits I use are exceptions and at some point I'll start using long-jmp - I don't think either of these will propagate across a dlopen. 16:29:48 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:30:21 Ok, then using dlopen initializers is a dead end. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and solve my other problem (what to name all of these initializer functions to avoid name collisions). 16:30:23 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:34 -!- mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:30:39 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:30:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:48 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:48 don't name them? 16:31:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.238] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:27 How would I get a pointer to them then? I'm not an expert on dlopen/dlsym. 16:31:29 they rather need a name in the object file 16:31:29 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:32:17 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:32:18 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 16:32:28 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:56 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:07 but you should be able to use the same name in different .so's 16:33:07 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:33:55 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:33:55 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:34:09 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:14 do you plan on using those "fasls" outside of the runtime? 16:34:24 Yeah - but I can't use the same external name in different .o files that are linked into one .so. There should be an easy solution to this - I'm not seeing it right now. 16:34:45 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:35:08 stassats: No - they are only useful when loaded into the runtime. 16:35:09 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:28 so it's not a simple one to one mapping between .lisp files and .so ones? 16:35:37 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 drmeister: maybe you could use a different fasl format then? 16:36:01 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:01 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-007.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:09 jsnell: No - there is a map of one .lisp file to one .o file and multiple .o files are linked into one .so file. 16:36:26 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:36:27 ok. that's very untypical for fasls 16:36:39 stassats: .so(linux)/.bundle(OS X) files are convenient and I have them working. 16:36:40 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:01 jsnell: It is - isn't it - maybe that's part of my problem. 16:37:02 jsnell, concatenated fasls? :))) 16:37:14 so you have some other call than compile-file for bundling multiple .o files together? 16:37:19 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:37:42 -!- seangrov` [~user@78-2-147-73.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:37:42 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:47 Maybe these aren't really fasl files unless I link one single .o file into one .so file. 16:38:08 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:38:09 Quadrescence: concatenated fasls are still one fasl per .lisp file, just that they are stored together 16:38:27 Don't other Common Lisp implementations have some sort of bundled image file that contains a whole bunch of compiled .lisp source files? 16:38:27 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:28 drmeister: that's be my impression. of course it's not unreasonable to want to create a bundle like that 16:38:54 stassats, i know i know 16:38:58 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:39:28 jsnell: Yes, I have a "build-bundle" command to bundle up (link with ld) a bunch of .o files generated from a bunch of .lisp files. I'm looking for a more Common Lispy name for it. 16:39:36 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:45 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:40:33 When SBCL starts up - doesn't it load one small executable and then one large image file? 16:40:33 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:39 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:41:04 it does, the image file represents memory state, not compiled files, though 16:41:05 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:29 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:41:48 Currently I have just one small executable that brings up a bare bones lisp and it loads a .bundle(OS X) or .so(linux) image file that loads the rest of the Common Lisp code. 16:41:49 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:51 drmeister: for the bundling case, you could have a single (statically sized?) array per .so, load-time functions with file-level ("static") visibility in each .o file, a constructor function in each .o that pushes all of the load-time functions to the .so-level array, and after loading run all the functions in the array 16:42:16 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:42:30 if I'm understanding your concerns correctly 16:42:30 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:06 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:43:11 jsnell - I could do that - although with LLVM it's easier to write a function that calls all of the functions in order. But I could generate an array. 16:43:20 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:52 why not have one fasl per file for now, and focus on other things? 16:43:58 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:44:45 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:44:45 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:13 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:45:13 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:17 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.231.82] has joined #lisp 16:45:17 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.231.82] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:17 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 16:46:12 stassats: I have another kind of fasl called an LLVM bitcode file - they don't load fast at all because they are JIT compiled when they load and it's not fast. So I compile them into native code .o files and then I went one extra step and linked them into one image. You make a good point though - I could just link single .o files into single .bundle/.so files. If only I could load .o files directly - I could avoid the linkin 16:46:13 g stage (which requires calling out to the "ld" linker). 16:46:57 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:31 I was thinking of using __attribute__((constructor)) to contain these initializers - then the linker would take care of everything once I assigned the relative priority of the initializers (order) - but that has the exception handling problem. 16:48:38 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:05 And around and around we go. 16:49:28 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:50:04 Thanks for the discussion - it's clear that I need to allow exceptions to propagate across LOAD and this has given me a few more ideas. 16:50:04 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:15 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.107] has joined #lisp 16:50:18 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:51:06 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:51:06 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:12 drmeister: ok, your constraints are different than I thought. my impression was that you couldn't write such a function because that'd require global visibility for the functions, and thus unique names 16:51:21 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:55 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:51 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:53:25 so the point of the array was to act as a place where the functions could be collected without needing the name outside the function 16:53:26 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:26 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 16:53:38 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:53:47 That is sort of the problem - although I do currently write those initializer functions and they are external and I give them the name of the .lisp/.o file but you can see that is going to run into problems when users start generating their own bundles. Although ... the name only needs to be unique within the bundle because it only gets called once during initialization. 16:53:48 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:50 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:54:01 on the other hand, for functionality like this it seems totally reasonable to somehow constrain which .o files you can bundle 16:54:10 Although - if one bundle loads another bundle that has a .lisp file with a duplicate name - then I'll have a problem. 16:54:28 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:01 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:01 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:01 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 16:56:05 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:56:10 jsnell: I'll think on your suggestion to build an array of function pointers at load-time - that might avoid the problem. 16:56:13 or you could generate a guid for each .o file, and use that 16:56:15 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:26 What do you mean by a guid? 16:56:42 globally unique id 16:56:59 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:57:44 jsnell: shouldn't a quality hash suffice for that? 16:57:44 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:48 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:57:59 I dunno - sounds like it could run into problems. 16:58:00 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:00 a hash of the source code wouldn't quite work 16:58:14 .o files are sources? 16:58:39 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:58:59 a hash of the source code + the pathname + a constraint that you can't put two .o files generated using the same pathname into the same bundle? that seems totally legit 16:58:59 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:29 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:59:34 I like your other idea - dlopen file, call external function "getfuncsć which fills an array of function pointers and then call them in turn. 16:59:37 drmeister: life is too short to worry about a 1/2^64 chance of collision :-) 16:59:39 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:19 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:01:07 jsnell: My code is like the "Heart of Gold" Infinite Improbability Drive. the least likely bugs are the most likely to show up just when I'm showing it to someone. 17:01:07 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:08 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:01:57 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:01:57 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:20 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:26 -!- hugod [~user@65.94.29.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:26 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:41 drmeister: There are Lisp implementations of CityHash and SipHash if you need good, fast hash functions. 17:04:02 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:04:47 reb` - thanks, I'm using SBCL's "newhash" - is that any good? 17:04:47 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:55 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:05:42 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:05:42 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:36 k0001_ [~k0001@host252.190-229-215.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:06:46 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:57 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:07:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-007.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:12 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:47 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:07:55 sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-134-188.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:59 -!- fourier [~fourier@fsf/member/fourier] has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:08:37 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:09:28 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:09:28 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:36 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host89.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:36 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:38 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:48 ehu` [~ehu@62.140.137.153] has joined #lisp 17:10:17 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:10:34 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:34 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:00 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:01 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.137.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:11:09 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:11:22 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 17:11:22 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:56 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:12:46 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:12:46 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:56 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:12:58 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:09 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:13:18 francogrex [~user@91.179.192.138] has joined #lisp 17:13:35 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:05 who has the energy and an x86 PC to try something out: http://paste.lisp.org/display/139040#2 (and the one before) 17:14:24 in any implementation expect sbcl and cmucl 17:14:26 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:14:35 Is there a ASDF function that returns a system's version? I'm trying to write a function that will invoke `git archive' to build a release tarball. 17:14:40 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:11 drmeister: Sorry, I don't know what SBCL's newhash is. A contrib perhaps? 17:15:41 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:16:30 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:16:30 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:20 reb` I don't either - I'm moving kind of fast and loose and I grab code (keeping copyright notices of course) and run with it. I figured that if it's good enough for SBCL it's good enough for me. Also - I do my hashing in C++ so I need C/C++ code. I do see that there is C/C++ code for the two hashing functions you suggested - thanks. 17:17:20 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:23 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 17:17:47 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:19:11 -!- ehu` [~ehu@62.140.137.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:42 Nah, I'll just parse the .asd file myself. 17:20:31 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:35 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:40 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:44 (asdf:component-version (asdf:find-system system)), easily 17:21:20 stassats: Uh, nice. Thank you. 17:21:21 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:18 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22:37 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:23:11 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:23:28 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:23:56 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:25:23 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:26 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3193.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:19 -!- uta [~user@198-84-227-163.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:22 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-134-188.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:28:42 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-102-32.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:10 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-hvoqxahoonpwmlaz] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:29:22 sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-134-188.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:22 travisr_ [~travisrod@17.115.47.155] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:14 francogrex: where are READ-PROGLIST and PROGLIST-ENCODE from? 17:34:53 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:35:25 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:35:42 -!- ZabaQ [~ZabaQ@86.63.2.14] has left #lisp 17:41:09 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:41:53 hugod [~user@65.94.29.145] has joined #lisp 17:42:20 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:42:31 CMz- [~CMz@74-129-39-17.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:03 -!- CMz [CMz@74-129-39-17.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3193.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:01 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3193.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:46 serejkus [~serejkus@broadband-95-84-148-219.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 17:46:04 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:46:16 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:47:01 arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 17:47:23 svs__ [~svs@66.202.133.178] has joined #lisp 17:48:46 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:48:49 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:49:38 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.87] has joined #lisp 17:50:03 fortitude: don't worry aboutthose now, you can take the vectors as they are 17:50:41 (defparameter mmap #(....)) 17:51:03 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:42 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 17:54:55 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 17:55:25 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:37 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #lisp 17:58:39 diadara [~diadara@49.202.210.95] has joined #lisp 18:00:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3193.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:01:36 francogrex: the foreign-funcall-pointer fails on ccl 18:02:03 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:13 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-179-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 LiamH1 [~none@aes048148.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-179-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:09:32 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 18:11:11 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:12:46 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:06 -!- diadara [~diadara@49.202.210.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:07 malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 -!- travisr_ [~travisrod@17.115.47.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:18:35 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:18:38 fortitude: which program #1 or #2 ? 18:19:06 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:19:21 can you post your code in annotation? I assume you have an x86 18:19:39 I mean the output 18:20:14 francogrex: I actually just realized the vm I tested it on was running in 64-bit mode 18:20:31 francogrex: going to re-test in a minute 18:20:36 ok 18:22:07 fortitude: You won't be able to get anything useful without the correct memory address sorry 18:22:35 but at least it shouldn't fail 18:22:37 Aramur [~arare@9.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:35 i will send you the library if you want 18:25:19 francogrex: output from a 32-bit windows vm: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ZAJ 18:25:47 for #2 18:26:33 travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has joined #lisp 18:27:11 you could at least have #(199 5 #x68 #xFF #xB7 #x01 13 0 0 0 195) 18:28:26 fortitude: #x1B7FF68 like stassats says because your address is not the same where you allocate memory 18:29:30 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-154-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:29:39 ooh, parenscript is cool 18:29:55 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-148-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:18 francogrex: and you could write a test case which can be just loaded 18:30:21 #(8B C0 A3 68 FF B7 1 C3) or #(139 192 163 104 255 183 1 195) for you 18:31:13 bioevolgenec [5e47dca1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.71.220.161] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:33:18 An insignificant question. I've written a graphical application in Common Lisp and I want to indicate that it was written with this language. So, I've added a menu item, named "About Common Lisp". To which url should it point? common-lisp.net looks abandoned and my next guess is Wikipedia's entry on Common Lisp. Ideas? 18:33:27 stassats: yes. I suspect the behavior will be the same for other machines anyway I already tested it on many. It is something that is implementation dependent, defintely 18:34:19 bioevolgenec: several links. http://common-lisp.net http://cliki.net and wikipedia. 18:35:02 is parenscript still maintained? The last release is from 2012 18:36:09 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:36:22 francogrex: works using the right pointer address, though the result is different 18:36:37 -!- LiamH1 [~none@aes048148.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:59 wws-ubuntu [~wws@66.202.133.178] has joined #lisp 18:38:07 fortitude: it's ok; yes the result would be different 18:38:48 try (cffi:foreign-funcall-pointer pointer () :int 33 :int) ? 18:38:56 isaacbw: this is free software. It's as maintained as you find bugs in it and send in patches. 18:39:06 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 isaacbw: 2012 is recent, I would say. 18:40:34 francogrex: also works, returns the same value collected by the loop 18:41:04 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.84.152] has joined #lisp 18:41:05 yes it should stick 33 (or whatever) somewhere there 18:41:09 pjb: if you close your eyes and pretend not to see how actual projects are maintained 18:41:16 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-134-188.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:20 pjb: thanks, I hadn't thought of cliki. 18:41:32 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 I'll make a test case later and send for those who are interested to dig deeper 18:43:33 james111111 [~james1111@173-23-175-149.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:11 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:44:18 stassats: yes, I'm an idealist. 18:44:24 francogrex: dig deeper? deeper into what? 18:44:41 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.84.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:47 -!- james111111 [~james1111@173-23-175-149.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 18:46:00 the difference between implementations in executing the code #1 18:46:57 there should be no differences 18:47:12 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.84.152] has joined #lisp 18:47:36 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 18:48:22 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:50:38 if your code respects the C ABI of the platform, and your implementation properly implements that ABI 18:51:33 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD3E2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:47 francogrex: for example, you're clobbering EDI, which should be preserved 18:52:49 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.84.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:02 but i can't find a good description of x86 abis 18:53:43 any heavy JS users in here? What do you think of the difference between CL's package management ("package" in the non-lisp sense) versus Quicklisp/ASDF? 18:53:44 stassats: you seem 'mildly' interested. Do you want the ia-x86 ? 18:53:52 no 18:54:11 *francogrex* can't find good victims 18:56:30 uta [~user@198-84-227-163.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:07 oh, it looks like there's been some git activity in 2013 18:58:02 whoever is interested here is http://www.fileswap.com/dl/AqAT2AtPID/ 18:59:26 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:59:31 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:02:30 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:58 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:04:28 -!- bioevolgenec [5e47dca1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.71.220.161] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:06:14 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:10:00 return values are in EAX in all implementations. in sbcl/cmucl the entry value from funcall-foreign-pointer is in EAX but unknown for others. 19:10:39 that's not an implementation ABI, this is C ABI 19:11:00 on windows, there are several flavors, cdecl, stdcall, etc. 19:11:28 -!- Aramur [~arare@9.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 19:12:38 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-149-74-129.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:13:01 there is no standard c abi unfortunately... so whatever i am trying to do is not going to be portable 19:13:44 no, there actually is standard c abis 19:14:22 but you just said cdecl, stdcall etc 19:14:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:14:39 they are standard 19:14:58 how do you think cffi manages to interact with all those foreign libraries? 19:15:14 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:16:58 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:21:13 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.28.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:31 Octothorpe [~nobody@p5DCD2921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:23:17 seangrov` [~user@78-1-119-8.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:24:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:24:43 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD3E2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:25:15 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has joined #lisp 19:25:32 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has quit [Changing host] 19:25:32 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 19:28:29 stassats: that's it! that the problem. arg load into EAX into sbcl/cmucl but not in other implementations. replacing mov ecx, eax by mov ecx, 20 fixes it... 19:28:33 *francogrex* sobs 19:30:27 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-1-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:18 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:38 are you sure? 19:31:40 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:33:04 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:33:16 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:33:32 yes sure 19:34:09 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:34:33 i was moving content of eax to counter and eax contains god knows what... so it was normal that I was receiving the errors 19:35:29 hmmm so will you try it? 19:35:44 of course not 19:35:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.255.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:33 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:09 smazga [~Adium@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 19:45:11 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:38 _d3f [~gnu@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 19:46:48 sohail [~sohail@69-165-134-188.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:48 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-165-134-188.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:46:48 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:48:04 ok. that's what it appears to be anyway. It's not important to send the arg via cffi, it can be 'hard-coded' 19:48:40 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-152-108.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:44 -!- capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:48:44 capisce [srodal@oftn/member/capisce] has joined #lisp 19:49:49 maybe it's even cleaner that way 19:50:32 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 19:51:19 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:51:50 wait what? 19:55:51 I mean using something like this works well across the board: http://paste.lisp.org/display/139053 19:56:14 "well" 19:57:15 you may remove well 19:58:01 francogrex: what EAX contains is well-defined for your ABI, go look it up? 19:58:01 and "works" too 19:58:44 none of this is magical or undefined or even hard 20:00:21 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:46 -!- zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:00:49 withiout the verb then the sentence will not be gramatically correct anymore 20:02:10 oGMo: i can test it. i don't care what it contains if it's not the arg. 20:02:25 the only real issue there with working well is handling call compatibility cross-platform, and possibly handling 64-bit if it doesn't 20:03:16 oGMo: platform differences can be abstracted away 20:03:25 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:03:36 but francogrex seems to be just doing things at random and expecting a result 20:03:53 stassats: possibly with overhead, but if you're hand-coding this you probably want to handle registers manually and not have that overhead 20:04:16 he seems to be experimenting and learning how these things work, and why not? 20:04:22 easier in lisp than C 20:04:51 there are better ways to learn such things 20:05:02 doing is always the best way of learning 20:05:43 I'm also reading a good book (TAOCP) 20:06:06 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-152-108.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:06:31 it's not relevant to what you're showing 20:07:18 yeah, francogrex, you really need an understanding of what abis are and how they work, which is not really in taocp. 20:07:55 there are tons of tutorials on the net, just forget about doing it from lisp for some time 20:07:55 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:05 take nasm/masm/yasm 20:08:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:36 ok 20:08:50 focus on learning assembly, not on trying to get incomplete undocumented libraries to work 20:09:15 you can even later make shared libraries with asm and call them from lisp 20:09:44 without worrying about memory protection issues or anything 20:11:31 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 20:11:41 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:13:48 http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Assembler_Tutorial#Application_Binary_Interface_.28SVR4_ABI.29 20:14:12 doing is always the best way of learning <-- yeah, why don't we all learn neurosurgery by operating on random strangers 20:14:37 mathrick: that's how it actually developped 20:14:40 I know 20:14:47 well, actually no 20:14:51 it's not how it developed 20:14:56 yes it is 20:15:07 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 20:15:28 it was developed by collecting the body of knowledge obtained by trial and error by MULTIPLE PROFESSIONALS BUILDING UPON THE PREVIOUSLY COLLECTED KNOWLEDGE 20:15:28 by dissecting corpses 20:15:38 francogrex: you didn't seem to be using PPC 20:15:44 not a million monkeys randomly poking brains with scalpels 20:15:51 diadara__ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 20:15:56 and in case of ABIs, these things are standardised and documented 20:15:57 is there a way to use format's alternative as in (format nil "~:[~;~a~] ~a" nil 1 2) in a way that the 1 is still consumed? 20:16:05 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:10 ~@[ 20:16:24 consumed by what? 20:16:40 mathrick: yes it's also why you don't just read books for 15 years then do your first neurosurgery :p 20:16:51 i didn't get you properly: (format nil "~:[~*~;~a~] ~a" nil 1 2) 20:16:54 consumer by the ~a inside the ~[~] 20:16:57 there is _always_ hands-on 20:17:05 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl1.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: I am a Piraté] 20:17:21 nice 20:17:40 oGMo: there is, but it comes AFTER you are prepared with the elementary knowledge 20:17:48 books come first, scalpels second 20:17:58 dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:18:08 not necessarily, in elementary school scalpel often comes first heh 20:18:13 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 20:18:45 regardless, if you're writing an assembler, you clearly have some elementary knowledge there 20:18:56 i'm not saying to read books exclusively, but books which guide you into doing things properly 20:19:02 mathrick: it depends, in this case (me learning asm) yes books first but in many other instances not necessarily 20:19:05 if you haven't learned about ABIs you should probably do that, obviously ;) 20:19:33 pasting things to irc channels and expecting somebody to say "hey, that's not right" is not the most efficient way for both parties 20:20:11 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:20:19 it looks like I can simplity ~:[~; not null~] into ~@[ not null~], right? 20:20:42 francogrex: and I was commenting on assembly and the claim that doing is "always" the best way, which is bollocks 20:20:42 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:50 it's often a good way, but far from always 20:20:52 i was hoping someone would have a look into the undocumented library. Isn't it that many libraries have no proper docs yet source code can be useful 20:21:16 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.107] has joined #lisp 20:21:35 dim: you can 20:22:06 yeah I verified that it works, but I'm sometimes easily confused, thanks 20:22:15 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:27 Quadrescence: did you mean to write "CL's package management" there, rather than JS? 20:22:33 -!- Octothorpe [~nobody@p5DCD2921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:35 except that nothing will be consumed with ~@[ if it's not null 20:23:03 Quadrescence: and why JS specifically? Out of all mainstream languages, that's the one that still doesn't have a coherent package story 20:23:49 mathrick, only because I'm familiar with npm and stuff. Maybe compare with leiningen. 20:24:05 mathrick, and I probably meant what you think :) 20:24:07 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.192.138] has quit [Quit: time to rest] 20:24:16 oh, then it's not "JS", it's npm 20:24:43 Quadrescence: I'm not sure how lein differs from maven, but maven is really painful in my experience 20:25:24 it's at best a somewhat serviceable dependency manager, with insane overhead and crazy complexity that makes it basically impossible to figure out when things go south 20:25:32 and a terrible build system 20:25:41 QL is way better 20:25:58 well no it seems ~@[~] is not always consuming like I need 20:26:00 mathrick, mostly what I wanted to compare and contrast were things like the fact these systems can support versioned dependencies, separating dependency specification from the compilation/loading specification, etc. 20:26:10 I'm sure it'd be less straightforward if there were more than just one blessed repo, but even then I don't see it becoming anywhere near as awful as maven 20:26:41 -!- wws-ubuntu [wws@82841949.871B5088.B8C66328.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 20:27:16 Quadrescence: yeah, versioned dependencies are good when they work. I don't think I ever really needed to do that in CL, so I honestly don't know how and if that works with ASDF + QL 20:27:29 the problem is that maven doesn't actually handle versioned deps well 20:27:32 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:40 usually you can have it sorta work if you're lucky 20:27:55 -!- wws-ubuntu [~wws@66.202.133.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:59 I see. 20:28:11 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-181-27.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:26 mathrick, well why haven't you needed versioned deps in Lisp? is it because there just aren't a lot of rapidly changing libraries that you use? 20:29:35 Quadrescence: it's because I haven't needed to use those in the timespan when QL was available and widely used. I do expect however to find out all about it when I get back to that tpd2 project, which I should be working on 20:30:05 tpd2 is probably a good example, seeing that it has/had its own Alexandria 20:30:57 oh yes, that was annoying/awful 20:31:26 Quadrescence: I'm unsure whether multiple lib versions can ever be handled meaningfully 20:31:59 I don't see a way to load them at the same time into an image, not with CL packages (I mean packages in CLHS sense now) 20:32:40 the fact they're inescapably global is probably the biggest wart they have 20:35:09 MoALTz [~no@host86-158-220-83.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:19 mathrick, yes I'm not sure how you could get around that, or what theoretical solution to that there might be 20:35:30 that remains somewhat standards compliant 20:36:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-28-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:33 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:18 the CL package system is designed and defined in such a way that you can't, to the best of my knowledge and imagination, because they're not first-class values and are required to be available for lookup by unique names, which are also embedded in multiple places (ie. symbols) 20:38:17 package local nicknames would be a possible solution 20:38:22 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:38:37 yeah. I can't fathom why nicknames were made global 20:38:39 you could load different versions into different packages and then refer to them from other packages by nickname 20:38:54 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:39:42 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:40:14 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:40:50 -!- diadara__ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:51 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:10 travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has joined #lisp 20:45:51 H4ns: of course, we could easily implement it, if we had access to the CL package 20:46:13 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 20:46:18 H4ns: yeah, though I'm not convinced you could implement such a thing while preserving the ANSI-mandated semantics 20:46:25 Just a subclass of the PACKAGE class PACKAGE-WITH-NICKNAMES and an overriding of the FIND-PACKAGE method. 20:46:35 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:46:53 the biggest problem is to make such a thing happen in all implementations. 20:47:15 it seems that sbcl is doable, but in ccl, implementing package local nicknames is not quite as easy 20:47:29 to round up: it sucks. :) 20:47:33 sbcl already has them 20:47:50 Oh, but we do have access! (defpackage COMMON-LISP-WITH-NICKNAMES (:export "FIND-PACKAGE" "PACKAGE-USE-AS" )) 20:48:09 stassats: it does? 20:48:10 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:48:30 mathrick: btw, good job on the genera github repo, thanks for that! 20:48:36 H4ns: not exactly. It is "easy" to do provide a conforming package that provides anything like that. The only problem is that for most of those features, it involves re-implementing most of CL. Let's work on SICL. 20:49:23 H4ns: oh, did I push it all? I know I did the fixes, but I don't think I pushed my rework of the VM build and VNC hackery? 20:49:41 mathrick: you should :) 20:49:53 I know, I plan to, it's just tricky and icky 20:50:05 mathrick: i've just seen the repository recently and accidentially. 20:50:20 H4ns: if you happen to be really knowledgeable about XKB though, I could get it fixed completely :) 20:50:38 mathrick: haha, i'm not knowledgeable at all 20:50:40 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:44 that's really the last piece remaining, otherwise I got it to work with "I can't believe it's not rootless!" windows 20:50:49 anyone know how you're supposed to work with extensions in cl-protobufs? 20:50:53 mathrick: i just fix the hardware for symbolics keyboards 20:50:59 heh 20:51:13 I don't quite have spare symbolics keyboards lying around 20:51:38 *macdice* is the proud owner of a 'new' symbolics keyboard 20:51:49 i must admit that i have a few and i don't really use them 20:52:40 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:52:52 they are very loud to type on. mrs macdice has banned me from hacking on it 20:52:54 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 20:53:08 I hate loud keyboards 20:53:26 i used to love them, but i'm growing more social :) 20:53:27 H4ns: https://github.com/mathrick/opengenera/tree/base-genera-box 20:53:32 this is the hacking branch 20:53:37 -!- serejkus [~serejkus@broadband-95-84-148-219.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:54:03 mathrick: i'll have to show that off on the next lisp meeting here 20:54:07 mathrick: thanks! 20:54:07 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:08 it does a lot of questionable things in the pursuit of having a real Genera window on your desktop, rather than a sad little sandbox 20:54:22 H4ns: glad to hear someone can use it :) 20:55:02 H4ns: if you give me a second, I'll update the screenshots 20:55:18 mathrick: gladly :) 20:56:33 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:59:58 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:30 hi there, i work with sbcl on Debian GNU/Linux 32 Bit. I want to use threads, but i can't find a proper explanation for them. the sbcl handbook is not that kind of introduction, i would like to read. does anyone have a good website for learning? 21:01:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:01:16 hiroakip: do you want to use threads, or do you want parallel processing? 21:01:26 hiroakip: if it is the latter, look at lparallel 21:01:33 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:08 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:02:08 i want the later one, when it works, for example with something like mapcar 21:03:08 hiroakip: yeah. you want lparallel. have a look, it is great. 21:03:17 i will, thank you 21:03:44 does it work with sbcl? 21:04:00 of course 21:06:21 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-215-99.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:08:02 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:28 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:22 H4ns, thanks. not only for showing me lparallel. thanks to you i found qicklisp 21:09:35 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:58 H4ns: uhh, sec, screenshots somehow broke on my comp. I dunno how and why, but I only get gray 21:10:10 hiroakip: you're welcome 21:10:14 mathrick: eek 21:10:55 mathrick: also: Couldn't open file /Users/hans/opengenera/ubuntu-7.10-server-amd64.box 21:11:27 H4ns: when will hunchentoot be ported to opengenera? 21:11:28 H4ns: it should build it, unless I broke something 21:11:36 stassats: haha 21:11:53 mathrick: let me try to install veewee as the makefile tells me to 21:12:03 oh yes, you need veewee 21:12:13 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:12:23 I made it error for a reason :) 21:13:17 mathrick: gem install veewee => load: 1.31 cmd: ruby 2816 waiting 13.99u 0.54s 21:13:26 mathrick: i guess i'll go to bed :) 21:13:41 H4ns: aha, I just realised who you are: i bought a USB teensy adapter from you for my symbolics keyboard. Thanks again! 21:14:12 macdice: ah, hi! nice to hear you got it to work 21:14:28 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-136-158.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:56 works perfectly. i just haven't figured out what to do with all the chords that are now available to me 21:15:16 H4ns: right, I'll see what I can do about screenshots 21:15:18 or what emacs commands are worthy of the circle/square/triangle keys 21:15:51 macdice: i fear it is more of a conversation piece than anything else 21:16:13 macdice: but i'll bring mine to the next clojure meeting to impress the young folks :D 21:16:36 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:16:57 somebody should totally make a kickstarter project for producing modern equivalents 21:18:41 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:51 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:18:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:20:35 agumonke1 [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:36 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:22:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:20 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:25:25 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:00 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:30:33 Aramur [~arare@9.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:31 custom keycaps + layout ;) 21:33:21 ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:35 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:52 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:52 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41:17 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:48 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:31 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:32 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:09 james111111 [~james1111@173-23-175-149.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 -!- james111111 [~james1111@173-23-175-149.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 21:48:45 H4ns: https://github.com/mathrick/opengenera/tree/base-genera-box <-- feel free to gander now 21:49:44 mathrick: i'm on an image on the internet, i'm gonna be famous now! 21:49:54 H4ns: it's pretty brittle, though, and I have constant issues with the networking not being up. In the worst case you might need to boot it up in GUI mode and "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart", I've added that line in rc.local and might commit it down the line 21:49:57 stassats: yay! 21:50:27 overall however I think it represents progress :) 21:50:36 can you load asdf on it? 21:51:07 haven't tried. I haven't done any actual usage, in fact, I was too busy hacking the VM recipe itself 21:51:24 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:38 it won't be soon that I can run CL on it usefully, I'm still learning the basics of Genera 21:51:39 and this could be done some 5 years ago without any such tricks, until the x server got broken 21:51:45 aye 21:51:47 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:46 still, a waste of time 21:53:58 it is, but hopefully it'll result in a robust build immune to X this or that in the future 21:54:01 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:40 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:22 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:49 -!- ehu 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23:13:40 -!- sontek [~sontek@sontek.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:13:40 sontek [~sontek@opensuse/member/Sontek] has joined #lisp 23:15:14 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@rrcs-24-103-45-235.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 23:16:59 mlamari [~quassel@72.183.103.226] has joined #lisp 23:16:59 are access to simple-arrays with boolean elements bound to be slower than bit-vectors in SBCL? 23:17:00 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:29 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@pool-74-98-4-147.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:05 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 23:18:18 Quadrescence: I don't know, but declaring the type of its elements made a huge difference to me. 23:19:38 nbouscal [~nbouscal@rrcs-24-103-45-235.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:40 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:24:01 -!- smazga [~Adium@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:05 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:20 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 23:27:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-225-7.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:09 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:28:25 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:27 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:32:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:33:04 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 23:33:28 pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 23:34:37 Quadrescence: yes. 23:34:43 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-007.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:45 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.107] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:35:19 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:38:03 bound to be an order of magnitude slower? 23:38:58 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Odcházím] 23:39:01 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:39:23 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:39 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:41:05 seems possible 23:41:10 I don't know for sures 23:43:31 -!- tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:06 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:46:29 -!- uta [~user@198-84-227-163.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:19 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:49:27 -!- yrk 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