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james111111 [~james1111@173-23-175-149.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:39 -!- james111111 [~james1111@173-23-175-149.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 01:32:16 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:16 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:26 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:36 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:43:06 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:12 Has anyone used ECL's ffi:c-inline function? I've got an escape form "@01;" and the documentation doesn't give enough info to interpret what it expands to. 01:44:12 -!- DalekBaldwin1 [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:15 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:21 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:55 Into the source I go... 01:46:25 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:26 -!- namtsui` [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:48:36 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:49:46 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:27 -!- killsto [~killian@68.102.21.152] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:54:31 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:54:50 -!- k0001 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[~Beetny@ppp118-208-26-249.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:20:19 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.77.30] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:22 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.77.30] has joined #lisp 07:22:55 hi guys 07:23:02 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:23:15 i just noticed this video about updating a compiled lisp program via swank updates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pMyhrDcMzw&list=PL2VAYZE_4wRKKr5pJzfYD1w4tKCXARs5y 07:24:19 that seems fairly clear to me. i have the main function (minus the macro wrapping, i just want to see it work) in my program and i can call the (update-swank) function and it is called properly without error. unfortunately it returns NIL and doesn't update the running program. 07:24:32 is there something obvious that i might be missing? 07:26:34 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 07:26:39 code of function here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138833 07:26:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 07:26:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:32:28 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:51 ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:55 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:35:37 tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:47 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 07:41:51 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has quit [Client Quit] 07:59:26 deego [deego@unaffiliated/deego] has joined #lisp 07:59:31 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-183-31.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:00:27 (#lush is empty). I am reading the lush tutorial, but feel stupid: Suppose I feel lush (instead of bash), and want to launch an octave session. In bash, I'd just type octave. What do I do when using lush? 08:02:41 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3e29.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:25 Aerolitu` [~Aerolitus@177.39.189.243] has joined #lisp 08:06:16 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 08:06:38 -!- Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:50 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-183-31.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:12:47 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:17:02 -!- alfred1 [~alfred@ppp-124-121-183-31.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:21:56 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 08:22:22 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:31 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host130.190-137-207.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:26:09 bitonic [~user@ppp-188-144.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 08:27:25 -!- Aerolitu` [~Aerolitus@177.39.189.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:03 killsto [~killian@ip68-102-21-152.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:13 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:29:33 Regarding asdf, what is the difference between a module and a system. As far as I can tell a module is a system but the system is defined in another asd file 08:30:43 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:32:39 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:54 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:33:13 PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has joined #lisp 08:33:17 -!- koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:46 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:34:36 koisoke [~xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 08:34:58 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:42 aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:36:38 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:40 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:47 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:194e:321a:6701:dcc9] has joined #lisp 08:38:51 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:39:04 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:19 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:44:31 killsto: module is usually used to denote a subdirectory 08:44:58 system has all the strappings of a standalone definition that can be pulled in by other systems, a module in general doesn't 08:45:06 though I believe all systems are also modules 08:46:07 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:47:26 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 08:51:05 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-230-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:36 agumonkey [~agu@170.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:194e:321a:6701:dcc9] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 08:59:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:02 mathrick: I think I figured that out just now actually. I was trying to decide whether or not to make the web section of my application a seperate system or a module. 09:00:39 lufu [~user@5.254.134.59] has joined #lisp 09:00:52 Is there any harm in making a whole module depend on something when only one file depends on it? I see in some .asd that a :depends-on is specified on a file in a module 09:01:52 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:3cab:ce92:2cc7:6d9a] has joined #lisp 09:04:03 killsto: the howto says you cannot depend across module boundaries, so you have to depend on the module if it's split out 09:06:35 unrelated: does anyone have a copy of the Explorer Zmacs Tutorial? There's Zmacs Manual PDF which I have, but the doc listing mentions a tutorial too, which I'd like to see if possible 09:07:50 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:3cab:ce92:2cc7:6d9a] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 09:08:04 killsto: ooh, I see, I misread your question, it's the other way around. Sticking it in a file makes it more localised, so you're less likely to carry around useless baggage after a reorganisation because you miss a now-superfluous dependency 09:08:24 OTOH, it's somewhat more verbose and difficult to scan than a centralised list of dependencies 09:08:47 but if it's very clearly localised to a single file, you should probably only make the file depend on it 09:09:30 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-136-122.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:09:54 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e5a4:1a9c:d218:174] has joined #lisp 09:10:40 -!- yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 09:13:21 would anyone know why swank does not update the live running program with this function: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138837 09:14:07 (update-swank) returns nil yet (swank:;default-connection) actually shows a connection (i think) 09:14:50 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:22 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:54 zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:41 -!- __quasi [~quasi@117.195.32.164] has quit [Quit: __quasi] 09:18:52 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 09:22:06 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:25:35 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:26:01 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:26:47 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:31:11 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:32:19 keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has joined #lisp 09:39:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:39 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:44:40 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-230-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:47:09 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:47:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:48:28 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #lisp 09:48:47 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:49:11 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-230-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:22 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e5a4:1a9c:d218:174] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:50:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:06 __quasi [~quasi@117.195.32.164] has joined #lisp 09:51:28 mathrick: Ah, thanks. Used to dealing with maven at work so this is a bit different 09:51:30 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e5a4:1a9c:d218:174] has joined #lisp 10:00:56 killsto: maven confuses me endlessly and I hate it so much 10:01:15 it's a confusing dependency manager and an absolutely *terrible* build system 10:05:22 yeah... 10:05:40 pillton [~user@124-171-213-21.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:06:05 Intellij makes it usable though 10:08:47 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-119-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:55 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-139-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:13:16 genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:17:52 -!- zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:18:16 Is this not valid "(:module web :depends-on (:cl-who :split-sequence :yason :hunchentoot "resource-mon")..." 10:19:14 quicklisp says cl:who not found, but it loaded it when I said the system depended on it 10:20:09 Given the inconsistencies you're showing off, we are let to believe your report is not entirely true. 10:20:34 Why web when the others are keywords? why cl:who vs :cl-who? 10:21:51 Because resource-mon is a local package 10:21:53 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.109] has joined #lisp 10:22:03 oh heh, Genera apparently comes with Macsyma included 10:22:19 killsto: I think you're confusing packages and systems. 10:22:21 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:22:32 pjb: I meant system 10:22:44 killsto: you still wrote cl:who, which makes no sense 10:22:53 cl:who cannot be found, as per the CL standard. 10:23:22 and that's why pjb thinks you think installing CL-WHO is in any way connected to the symbol WHO being accessible in package CL 10:23:23 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B3630.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:54 I'm thinking you've typed cl:who somewhere instead of :cl-who. 10:24:03 No, I have not 10:24:10 At least here you have. 10:24:10 I had the same problem with :restas 10:24:13 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:15 then your error makes no sense 10:24:26 exactly... 10:24:31 or you're misreporting 10:24:35 the latter being more probable 10:33:14 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 10:34:04 mathrick: very possible this is something insanely dumb since I have been up for 24 hours now, but here is my file http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=w0xE5iQC 10:36:02 cl-user> (ql:quickload :resource-mon) 10:36:02 To load "resource-mon": 10:36:03 Load 1 ASDF system: 10:36:03 resource-mon 10:36:03 ; Loading "resource-mon" 10:36:03 10:36:04 (:resource-mon) 10:36:13 There's no problem with your system. 10:36:36 bummer 10:36:48 Check your source files. I used empty files. 10:38:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:39:07 Erm My test is not conclusive. 10:40:50 p_l: so Xorg 7.0 works fine, which makes 6.06 the oldest ubuntu you can run it on 10:42:13 :depends-on inside components shouldn't depend on other system 10:42:14 s 10:42:25 now the only thing I'm missing is a space cadet keyboard with Select, Symbol and Help keys 10:44:04 stassats: oh, I thought I saw clack doing that. On second look it's not there 10:44:47 Also, submodules can 10:44:52 't depend on super modules. 10:44:56 It's the other way. 10:45:45 killsto: it's not really "shouldn't" it's "cannot" 10:46:28 stassats: oh, well that would make sense if it could. Oh well 10:46:28 :module doesn't create any modules, it's just a way to put some files in an another subdirectory 10:46:53 it wouldn't make sense, since it won't be able to distinguish between the files and systems 10:47:11 then I could be clear on what modules are using what systems 10:47:31 You can define several systems in your source directory. 10:47:43 killsto: there's no modules 10:47:54 But I see the way modules are setup are not systems 10:48:05 I was thinking they were like maven modules 10:48:08 Each subdirectory could have its own asd file, and you could have an asd file that would define a system that would depend on the subsystems. 10:48:35 killsto: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138840 10:48:38 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.46.69] has joined #lisp 10:48:40 See for example: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/b9a21b193f6025fe664d85838c69b929aa8d1623:common-lisp/com.informatimago.common-lisp.asd 10:49:14 killsto: you can't apply reasoning to how ASDF works 10:49:58 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:28 killsto: notice that there two files named package.lisp: package.lisp and web/package.lisp 10:51:17 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@pppoe234.net137-33.omkc.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:51:53 might someone be able to tell me why this example does not update the live running program: http://paste.lisp.org/+2Z4Q 10:52:40 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:00 pjb: yes, that's how I have it setup 10:53:18 ok 10:53:45 ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:19 -!- hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.46.69] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys1] 10:58:28 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:39 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:56 -!- pillton [~user@124-171-213-21.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:30 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:08:33 -!- loke_erc [~user@2001:470:36:b4a:d168:e884:295e:37ec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:23 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:11:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:13:53 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:d3f0:785a:cb54:6f2b:dd71] has joined #lisp 11:14:30 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:37 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.109] has joined #lisp 11:25:50 -!- killsto [~killian@ip68-102-21-152.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:27:19 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EA3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:10 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:28:42 ASau [~user@p5797EA3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:29:40 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:34 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e5a4:1a9c:d218:174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:46 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 11:40:33 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e5a4:1a9c:d218:174] has joined #lisp 11:41:23 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:49 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:05 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:57 ASau` [~user@p4FF96DC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:00 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EA3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:22 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:51:52 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e5a4:1a9c:d218:174] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Or a funtion which calls itself. 13:17:26 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:18:12 WarWeasle: It can be even both simultaneously! 13:18:36 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B3630.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:46 hiroakip: with slime you get the backtrade displayed in the *sldb/ buffer. 13:19:05 Lol. I don't know his programming level, so I restated it just in case. 13:19:14 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Odcházím] 13:20:13 if you don't compile in clisp, it won't optimize self-call recursion 13:20:26 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:20:56 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:03 hiroakip: http://www.cliki.net/TutorialClispDebugger ; but this is without slime. 13:21:08 Nothing in lol should require that. 13:22:54 i don't get an sldb buffer, when clisp shuts down, sorry 13:22:59 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-188-144.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:25:28 hiroakip: you can try to trace suspects. Otherwise use step. 13:26:22 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:31 -!- irq0 [~irq0@amy.irq0.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:26:43 i will, but first another iniformation: with sbcl i get "Unhandled memory fault at #xB5AE7FC4." is this realy a stack problem? 13:26:51 If clisp sigseg on stack overflow, it's because it's been compiled without libsigseg. 13:27:13 irq0 [~irq0@amy.irq0.org] has joined #lisp 13:27:40 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-228-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:46 Perhaps. With by scbl I get INFO: Control stack guard page unprotected Control stack guard page temporarily disabled: proceed with caution ; on a stack overflow. 13:27:46 13:28:05 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:29:55 hiroakip: Can you share the source which is causing that? 13:30:02 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:30:19 sure, one moment please 13:31:13 -!- konr [~user@179.99.187.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138846 it happens when i call the (make-city-edges) function 13:32:19 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:32:56 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 hiroakip: there's an infinite loop in that function. 13:33:25 o.k. let me have a look, i want to find it myself ;) 13:34:41 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 13:35:49 This makes me want to pull out LOL. Grand theft wumpus., is fun. 13:35:51 hiroakip: land of lisp? ;) 13:35:59 ahh i got it, it has to be make-edge-list instead of make-city-edges in line 4 of that function 13:36:13 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:36:18 genkinodenki, exactly :D 13:36:35 hilarious book. 13:37:31 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:40 yes, it is the most motivating programming book i read so far 13:37:53 and i hvae learnt a lot until now 13:37:56 Now, I have this problem with mcclim and clx: opening a local display (:0.0) works nicely on linux, but not on MacOSX, or not a remote display from MacOSX to linux, either directly or thru ssh. There seem to be a response sent back with only 0 bytes. 13:38:48 Text game,text game, web server, wait, what? 13:38:52 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:39:27 another problem with my code, i get a cup of tea, and then i search for it :) 13:39:28 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 13:41:14 Gooder` [~user@125.37.177.182] has joined #lisp 13:42:55 hiroakip: in find-islands unnconnected --> unconnected 13:43:04 -!- Gooder [~user@125.37.177.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:43:19 pjb: I just wonder if it isn't a reasonable idea to replace the X protocol in CLIM with its modern equivalent: HTML5. :-) 13:43:23 hiroakip: in make-city-edges randon -> random ; 13:43:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:43:34 s/CLIM/McCLIM/ 13:43:36 hiroakip: perhaps you should try to compile and READ the warning and error messages? 13:44:13 gleag: you can write backends to clim or mcclim. But I don't have the time to do it now. 13:44:18 -!- __quasi [~quasi@117.195.32.164] has quit [Quit: __quasi] 13:44:39 that said, I still consider X11 to be superior to any other system. Otherwise I'd write a Cocoa backend, given the current customer. 13:45:21 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 13:45:21 Ugh! X11 superior? In hacked-togetherness, perhaps. 13:45:31 gleag: HTML5 is rather orthogonal to X11, and exceeds hackedness of every other thing 13:45:32 In "it works". 13:45:43 Unfortunately, hacked-togetherness largely corresponds with availability these days. 13:45:58 vnc is a stew. 13:46:06 although X.Org and various open source toolkits worked hard at breaking X11 13:46:14 __quasi [~quasi@117.195.32.164] has joined #lisp 13:46:23 They did indeed. 13:46:34 AFAICS, things worked better 5 years ago. 13:46:51 Onc you wrote something, you don't feel like rewriting again. 13:46:59 p_l: it is, but I suspect that HTML5 environments receive more love these days than X11 servers - especially at mobile platforms, for example. 13:47:17 gleag: on mobile platforms, HTML5 sucks so much it's not funny 13:47:36 at least when it comes to more complex things 13:47:37 hiroakip: you must be much much much more careful with spelling. Use emacs and auto-completion-mode ! 13:47:55 that is, applications. There's a lot of nice things for mobile websites, but applications... urk 13:48:09 Whenever I look at modern X11, I scream with terror. Old X11 was "simpler" but I don't want jaggy lines with no Porter-Duff and with slow images. 13:48:48 What are backend choices for UI toolkits these days anyway? 13:49:22 gleag: RENDER is fine. But a lot was broken in pursuit of visual bells and whistles, and X server could use antialiasing etc. for a long time - it's just that the free one didn't, but it was never really the best one ;) 13:50:07 gleag: today, GTK will crap out on screen because it will stubbornly use OpenGL instead of walking the list of visuals offered by X server and choose the correct one 13:50:08 IT's still a long WAY before we LAND in the land of sanity. :) 13:50:17 gleag: we are moving away from it, so... 13:51:37 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:03 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 anyway, more on-topic - there was once a HTML CLIM backend, back in... 1996? 13:52:08 it was quite limited, though 13:52:54 I don't know if it supported keyboard much (mouse worked fine for basic clicking) 13:53:34 pjb, i will have a look at the auto-completion-mode 13:54:18 Well, this is a crutch. if you want to become a programmer, you must have an innate care for spelling. 13:54:50 yes 13:55:06 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-214-209.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:55:55 loke_erc [~user@2001:470:36:b4a:a0d3:aa21:2f10:e8f] has joined #lisp 13:56:01 pjb: That sounds like a pretty low standard...spelling errors are usually detected fairly quickly, as opposed to, say, logical errors. 13:56:41 gleag: the other way around in my experience. And spelling errors can end up impossible to replace 13:57:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:21 p_l: You'd want to replace spelling errors with different kinds of error? 13:57:31 gleag: "fix" 13:57:40 gleag: it's not low standard, it's the basis. 13:57:44 hm, auto-complete in debian is only availible for emacs 23. ic use 24 and cant find anything like it in the emacs 24 packages. so i have to look a little more 13:57:56 we have one place in the system where someone misspelled Sign as Sing, and by now I don't think we have time to fix it 13:58:03 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:04 If you spend two hours correcting spelling errors detected by the compiler, that's two hours you're not correcting logic errors. 13:58:17 And if you spend two hours correcting type errors detected by the compiler, same thing. 13:58:20 (it's not in user-visible strings, but it's in symbol names etc.) 13:58:32 p_l: "time" should have read "time or proper tools"? 13:59:17 A mere replacement of a symbol/identifier surely can't be that problematic? (Unless there's some ugly situational catch.) 13:59:20 gleag: time. We are talking about something that possibly spans into database as well 13:59:38 so you have to check through all the paths, including the less used ones 13:59:39 gleag: it can be, because of namespaces: you want to replace it only in the right namespaces. 13:59:49 as well as what pjb said 14:00:03 (defun list (list) (let ((list (list list list))) (list list))) Now, rename the right list. 14:00:25 and yes, tooling is horrible, and we don't have (officially) some of the source code 14:00:30 pjb: that's the " proper tools" part probably. :) 14:00:33 Yes. 14:00:34 pjb: That would need a code walker, I assume? 14:00:37 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@162.72.14.206] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 14:00:43 But given that nobody pays for them, nobody writes them, the less for lisp :-( 14:00:52 I mean, nothing's been done about it since Interlisp. 14:00:58 brb 14:01:29 Is interlisp runnable these days, BTW? Images, emulators, the works? 14:01:38 Not AFAIK. 14:01:47 Some software archeology would be in order here 14:02:12 davorb-cellphone [~davorb-ce@194.47.245.35] has joined #lisp 14:02:21 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:03:59 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:04:19 I've noticed that Greg Kiczales has an Interlisp-D manual lying in a prominent stack of books in his Coursera course's videos. :) 14:04:46 Together with SICP and the works (and probably AMOP as well :-)) 14:07:23 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-74-40.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:06 WarWeasle [~brad@162.72.14.206] has joined #lisp 14:17:11 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:13 I've posted another test video of my 3D GUI tool. It uses a Halo like blockyio, but this one works in 3D. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjy3ajmx9Fs 14:18:45 I'm really proud of it, so I wanted to share. 14:19:06 -!- yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:28 normanrichards [~normanric@64.221.15.242.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 ashish__ [having@badti.me] has joined #lisp 14:22:26 aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:23:21 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@162.72.14.206] has left #lisp 14:23:27 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:43 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:23:47 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24:01 aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:24:03 -!- ashish__ is now known as ashish___ 14:24:35 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:03 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-228-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:27:40 I'm sort of puzzled. Some time ago, XMLisp was a way of working with XML from within Lisp. Now there seems to be a XMLisp project with an entirely different scope (some rich media thingy). Are these two things actually related somehow? 14:28:22 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:26 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:30:00 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:31:16 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:31:51 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-031-109.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:57 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e139:4868:18d5:9336] has joined #lisp 14:34:00 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-83-249.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 14:34:25 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:49 correction: Genera somewhat works on 7.0 14:34:58 it's back to blocking X after a reboot 14:35:01 and is really unstable 14:35:11 *mathrick* goes back in time more 14:35:33 I hope I don't hit ubuntu versions too old to have an x64 build 14:36:20 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:00 uh-huh, releases below 6.06 don't have a server CD, which probably means I won't get NFS and xinetd :\ 14:37:29 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:37:45 gleag: as far as I remember, XMLisp was always that. Are you thinking of CXML perchance? 14:38:23 mathrick: http://www.agentsheets.com/lisp/XMLisp/ versus http://code.google.com/p/xmlisp/ 14:38:35 yeah 14:38:43 mathrick: observe the change in project scope. Seems confusing to me. 14:38:44 it moved in scope 14:38:53 but it was always buzzwordy and all-encompassing 14:39:09 though I admit that is extreme 14:39:14 (and media, har har) 14:40:57 nilsi [~nilsi@46.246.22.15] has joined #lisp 14:41:18 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:42:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@64.221.15.242.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:43:23 l_ [~ln@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 14:44:03 -!- l_ [~ln@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 14:46:34 loke_erc` [~user@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:47:05 -!- loke_erc [~user@2001:470:36:b4a:a0d3:aa21:2f10:e8f] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:50:57 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:51:17 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-214-209.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:52:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:14 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 14:56:56 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:22 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:27 mathrick: xinetd and NFS will be in any CD 15:02:37 well, some form of inetd 15:02:54 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:02:56 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 p_l: nope, neither are on the desktop CD 15:06:57 mathrick: ... wat? 15:07:03 Grab an old Debian, then? 15:07:48 I'll see, maybe it changed when they started having a server CD, but for 6.06 onwards, you need the server CD for those 15:12:48 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:30 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 Is there any current way to look at archives of the various mailing lists? 15:19:56 google 15:20:02 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20:05 Yes, quite unsatisfactory. 15:20:40 is anyone working on it or is there anything one can do? 15:20:54 Feel free to work on it. 15:21:06 sabra: no one is working on it 15:21:24 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:21:29 You could gather the data. Also put up a nntp client for the new messages. Set up a database, write a web site to query it. Provide a way to get the raw messages. 15:22:05 http://barzilay.org/misc/cll.txt.bz2 15:22:05 that's a no way to solve it 15:22:09 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@46.246.22.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:20 Well, Xach did it for Naggum's messages. 15:22:27 nilsi [~nilsi@61.172.24.42] has joined #lisp 15:22:48 why was the old c-l.net killed anyway? The new one is... confusing, and really, really incomplete 15:22:56 Also, you may want to try to get the mail lists, not only usenet. 15:23:01 sabra: perhaps gmane? 15:23:03 mathrick: it wasn't killed, it was "migrated" 15:23:12 stassats`: same end result 15:23:13 gmane is only a nntp<->email gateway. 15:23:27 I don't even where it was migrated to? 15:23:28 pjb: which has a lot of archives of various mailing lists 15:23:43 Anyways, the point is that you have to get your own copy of the data. 15:23:48 And invest in maintaining it. 15:24:05 Running a database, or even just a usenet repository, in the long run, is not so easy. 15:24:11 and not entirely cheap. 15:24:30 mathrick: the cl community was having it too good, so it had to be artificially curtailed, lest cl became too popular 15:24:39 Exactly. 15:24:46 stassats`: that is eerie consistent with the facts 15:25:13 *eerily 15:26:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:25 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@61.172.24.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:36 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:59 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.150.81] has joined #lisp 15:29:15 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-233-221-239.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:29 I wish there were a guarantee that maphash (or with-hash-table-iterator) visits in the same order as long as the hash table is untouched, but I don't see that mentioned. 15:30:43 Not assuming that will require caching all elements, in my case. 15:30:46 lmj`: why do you need that guarantee? 15:30:48 ottalo [~ottalo@78.157.218.55] has joined #lisp 15:30:57 hello 15:30:59 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 15:31:04 AeroNotix: parallel mapping hash elements in chunks 15:31:06 i need help who will help me 15:31:33 lmj`: a moving GC will cause hashtables to be rehashed 15:32:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:32:09 looks like gmane may be my best bet. 15:32:24 -!- ottalo [~ottalo@78.157.218.55] has left #lisp 15:32:41 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:09 Agree with everyone that no one has the time to run a cl-specific setup 15:34:13 sdemarre [~serge@7.124-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:35:46 yeah, it looks like pmaphash would have to copy elements in order to operate in chunks 15:35:58 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:22 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-115.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 and weak entries can disappear 15:36:55 bitonic [~user@ppp-188-144.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 so, that's why no guarantees is a good thing 15:37:21 right 15:37:46 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.193] has joined #lisp 15:38:12 if the operation is trivial, the cost of copying can negate the effects of paralleization 15:39:29 yes consing is the enemy of parallelism, especially with current implementations 15:40:24 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:30 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:31 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-188-144.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:53 What's the best way to generate a unique eql value at runtime? Looks like 'cons', or "risk it" with a random fixnum. 15:43:07 gensym? 15:43:18 well gensym isn't any better than cons 15:43:22 the best by which metric? 15:43:45 Just a value that is uniquely eql 15:43:52 rather not cons 15:44:09 but probably not possible 15:44:31 complex? 15:44:40 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:44:41 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:29 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.150.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:47:15 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:25 a single-float complex take the same amount as a cons on x86-64 15:48:05 (defstruct a) is the same as a cons too 15:51:07 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:52:06 if you need a lot of these, a large array would do better per element 15:52:06 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:44 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:44 other than, you can't portably link into an array, and this will surely confuse the GC even in sbcl 15:54:12 nilsi [~nilsi@61.172.24.42] has joined #lisp 15:55:32 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:08 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 15:57:45 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB34CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:22 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:52 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:52 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB34CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:22 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.234.54] has joined #lisp 16:06:41 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 16:08:25 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC628D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:10:13 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:12:04 -!- __quasi [~quasi@117.195.32.164] has quit [Quit: __quasi] 16:12:16 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@61.172.24.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:48 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:25 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:15:10 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:46 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:33 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 16:20:29 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:15 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:35 -!- Gooder` [~user@125.37.177.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:25:16 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:27 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-115.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:08 compcube [~compcube@2601:4:2900:49:c09:e25b:fd42:71f0] has joined #lisp 16:26:08 -!- compcube [~compcube@2601:4:2900:49:c09:e25b:fd42:71f0] has quit [Changing host] 16:26:08 compcube [~compcube@pdpc/supporter/student/compcube] has joined #lisp 16:27:30 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:28:13 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:05 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:47 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:01 lmj`: fixnum would be bad. gensym or make-symbol would be good, but most probably more costly, both in term of memory and time to allocate/initialize than a mere cons cell. The "best" in terms of space and time would be a cons cell. But sometimes for debugging, it's better to use a symbol, or perhaps (cons 'something nil) so that you know that this unique value has to do with something. 16:38:05 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:39:02 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:24 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 16:39:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:38 A symbol may have up to at least 5 slots: a name, a value, a function, a package, a plist. a cons cell only has 2 slots, car and cdr. A vector could seem to be smaller, notably a vector of nil, but it has to have a dimension and an element type stored internally, so a vector (or a string), will probably be costlier than a mere cons cell. 16:39:53 Lisp is rather optimized to deal with cons cells :-) 16:40:34 Now, of course, some implementation may have more optimized vectors or strings or even symbols than cons cells. But it's not easy to do. 16:40:36 pjb: wouldn't you include a type name (or class) in that list of symbols behaviours? 16:40:37 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:41:17 loke_erc`: probably short type tagged. But if not, yes. I assume a short type tag for cons cells too. 16:42:09 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 16:43:20 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-173-67-38-235.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:44:11 -!- Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:30 superjudge_ [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:44:46 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:36 james111111 [~james1111@h66-173-71-114.mntimn.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:36 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:d3f0:785a:cb54:6f2b:dd71] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:38 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:39 -!- superjudge_ is now known as superjudge 16:45:57 foeniks [~fevon@p57A5C491.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:51 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit 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17:53:26 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-176-124.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:06 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:53 Klaufir [~admin@109.232.224.97] has joined #lisp 17:55:26 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:55:29 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 17:57:14 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 17:57:22 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:57:25 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 17:57:48 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 17:58:33 __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has joined #lisp 17:58:52 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:39 Just curious (it probably doesn't exist) is there a shell replacement that is CL based? Like rush is for ruby? 18:00:39 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:10 there isn't much point in such a thing 18:01:24 nightshade427: there's clash. 18:01:49 http://www.clisp.org/clash.html 18:02:25 pjb: Awesome thanks ;) 18:02:45 wow :o "is it functional?" 18:03:04 stassats`: let's try not to contradict good will ;-) 18:03:22 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:04:07 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:15 Ya, its not for daily use. It's just to play and see what things can be like. A different perspective. 18:04:41 You could use it for daily use. That would be the best way to improve it. 18:04:47 An others beside clash? 18:04:58 *any 18:05:03 cygo [~cyg@50.46.151.3] has joined #lisp 18:05:07 abcl, sbcl, clisp, ecl, ccl, cmucl, etc. 18:05:33 All the CL implementation have a REPL! 18:05:35 how can i undefine a procedure in scheme? 18:05:36 By asking on #scheme 18:05:45 Ya, but I'm looking for unix shell abilities, easy "cd" "kill" etc 18:06:00 is scheme not lisp? 18:06:16 Nope. 18:06:45 nightshade427: cf. com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.browser 18:06:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:09 pjb, what is the most popular CL implementation? 18:07:14 all of them. 18:07:20 It's a standard! 18:07:23 cygo: sbcl 18:07:27 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:31 Not true. ccl. 18:08:00 http://tinyurl.com/last-commit-six-month-ago http://tinyurl.com/monthly-commits http://tinyurl.com/last-commit-yesterday http://tinyurl.com/last-commit-before-VCS-existed 18:08:00 is cl more popular than scheme? 18:08:07 sbcl is the monthly "commits". 18:08:17 It seems so from here, indeed. 18:08:42 what on earth are you talking about? 18:08:54 stassats`: watch the pictures. 18:09:22 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:27 what a bunch of baloney 18:09:47 If there wasn't any bug to correct, there wouldn't be monthly releases. 18:09:58 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:04 what a bunch of baloney 18:10:43 knob [~knob@66-50-73-110.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:44 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:26 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:05 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:17:45 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:06 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host3.190-136-66.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:15 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:26 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:31 -!- Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:42 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-73-110.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:04 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-136-122.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:58 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-73-110.prtc.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:20 snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:58 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@162.72.14.206] has joined #lisp 18:20:59 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:12 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-136-122.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:40 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-73-110.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:24:01 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:03 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:03 milosn [~milosn@cable-178-149-0-183.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:33:59 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:11 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 18:35:57 Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 18:39:23 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.193] has joined #lisp 18:41:18 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:25 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:e139:4868:18d5:9336] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 18:48:15 -!- sdemarre [~serge@7.124-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:41 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:54:14 -!- prip_ [~foo@host133-128-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:54:41 -!- davazp [~user@80.31.10.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:08 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:51 envia [~envia@unaffiliated/envia] has joined #lisp 18:58:35 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:27 -!- Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:05 Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 19:07:43 -!- Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 19:10:23 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:8439:3c3a:e9ec:e877] has joined #lisp 19:13:02 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:46 -!- felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:33 I'm debating between using a :around method for implementing a cache mechanism or just putting the cache method directly inside the main procedure. The :around seems cleaner and separates concerns, but putting the cache method directly in the main procedure seems like it would be more clear in the future when I go back to see how it all works. I guess this is more general question of, when is it appropriate to use :around methods vs 19:16:33 just calling it directly? 19:18:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@170.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:39 -!- __quasi [~quasi@117.195.53.42] has quit [Quit: __quasi] 19:20:51 agumonkey [~agu@170.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:21:57 nightshade427: not knowing the details, I would say generally that if caching is important to the logic of the system then keep it explicit; if it's just an optimization then hide it away inside :around 19:22:08 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:22:53 lmj`: Perfect okay, thanks. Ya, its important to the logic so I will just do it explicitly. 19:23:49 lmj`: about lparallel kernel dimensionning, is there any way to make that quite dynamic? (that is, expanding the number of concurrent tasks accepted after kernel creation) 19:24:21 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:27 ``Erik [~erik@pool-173-67-38-235.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:07 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:56 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:26:10 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:26:25 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-120-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: mental process ended because all hope lost] 19:26:59 nightshade427: or just use memoize http://cliki.net/site/search?query=memoize 19:28:12 prip [~foo@host27-122-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:28:13 dim: it's a fixed number. A nontrivial context function would throw a monkey wrench into dynamically-sized workers, I think. 19:28:26 it could be done, I guess, but has complexity 19:28:45 pjb: Its caching things in a specific way that distributed among about 1k servers 19:29:00 felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has joined #lisp 19:29:18 ok 19:29:26 francogrex [~user@239.163-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:29:44 pjb: But thanks for the link, I can use that for other things for sure ;) 19:30:52 Anyways, the thing is that you can also dynamically rebind the function for which you want a cache. 19:31:08 You could use the same technique as in those memoization libraries to catch those function calls and cache. 19:31:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-218.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:45 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:32:25 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:49 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:58 cory786 [~cory@107-219-7-73.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:01 lmj`: ok. In my situation the risk of deadlock or starvation is non trivial if I don't size the pool correctly because I deal with a queue model with a producer and wanted to have mutliple consumers each with a queue... I can't afford only consumers running e.g. 19:35:28 also I wanted to have that capability while being able to have multiple high-level commands running at the same time 19:35:42 can I create a separate kernel per high-level command maybe? 19:36:19 you said lparallel wasn't made with dynamic creating and killing of kernels in mind though... ok maybe I need to send you an email with more details, if you're interested into hearing about it 19:36:50 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.107] has joined #lisp 19:38:11 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:47 Creating/destroying kernels is fine; it just carries the relatively high expense of creating/destroying threads. 19:40:54 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:00 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:14 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:35 I would only do that at command boundaries in my case (pgloader) which is perfectly acceptable 19:42:30 I don't want too long of a setup time, but when talking about heavy parallel data loading we are generally talking about gigabytes of data, so creating and destroying threads should be quite fine actually 19:42:46 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 19:46:30 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 19:46:37 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:18 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:39 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:37 _ln [~ln@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:51:32 -!- _ln [~ln@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:51:52 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:52:06 dim: you'll probably end up adding a flag to tell your producers or consumers to leave the message loop and end. 19:52:25 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:53:07 producers and consumers aren't normally hardwired together, so swapping one out while keeping the other is typically fine 19:53:39 well in the cases where I want more than 1 consumer per producer, from the configuration/command I know how many of them I want before I start fetching the data, in most cases 19:53:48 in those cases I can just create a kernel just for that command 19:54:19 I want to also have more than one command in flight, but one-kernel-per-command with just the right number of threads should allow me not to worry 19:55:31 there's a case where the number of consumers would depend on the data, but maybe I could start a specific kernel per consumer in this case (I already create a queue per consumer) 19:55:42 that's a trade-off I think I can leave with, really 19:56:26 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 19:56:48 the use case is data partitionning and a new queue/consumer per partition, say monthly parts and loading a TB sized file into the database for a year worth of data, I would end up dynamically creating 12 kernels, I don't think the time to doing that will be noticeable, what do you say? 19:57:47 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:30 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:42 pjb` [~user@90.24.198.19] has joined #lisp 20:00:50 -!- pjb` [~user@90.24.198.19] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:00:56 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:01:31 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:01 dim: the lparallel tests create and destroy many thousands of threads, so sounds fine to me 20:02:35 cool, thanks much for your input, I know how to do it now ;-) 20:02:47 When I call kernels expensive I'm mostly addressing the people who want to speed up fibonacci and matrix multiplies. 20:03:28 btw the program in question is not just in my head anymore, you can have a look at http://git.tapoueh.org/?p=pgloader.git;a=summary someday -- well I'm not sure how clean it is for someone who is not me to read that, there's a huge lack of high-level docs (user and hacker oriented) 20:03:31 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:45 lmj`: oh yeah, fair enough then 20:03:57 bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:59 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 20:07:04 -!- Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:28 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 -!- ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:49 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:29 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:46 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:52 Borbus_ [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 20:13:46 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:58 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:14:12 -!- foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:21 dim: just because I was curious, on my machine creating/destroying a worker thread is in the ballpark of 1 ms. 20:16:10 ahah 20:16:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:19:25 so you mean make-kernel + make-channel + submit-task I guess? 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21:19:20 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:b0f0:afa:a2f4:b590] has joined #lisp 21:25:59 nightshade427: what is 'rest call results'? 21:26:12 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-99-185.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:26:19 Uri => http call results 21:26:58 Just want to a simple way to take a list of Uris and in parallel use drakma to get the result if those http calls 21:27:11 nightshade427: sure, sounds appropriate. 21:27:23 Okay cool ;) 21:27:40 lmj`: Thanks 21:28:17 nightshade427: you might save a smidgen of time by subdividing more with :parts 21:28:40 since uri fetching is so slow, relatively speaking 21:29:34 Does pmap create a thread for each item in list for parallelism? Or does it queue them up and work them off queue? 21:29:38 -!- pjb [~t@90.24.198.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:29:42 I suppose I could read docs .. Huge 21:29:47 Huge = haha 21:29:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:33 nightshade427: lparallel uses a pool of threads. 21:30:43 the number of threads is the number you choose 21:30:56 Is that what parts does? 21:31:16 the default number of parts is the number of threads you chose 21:31:23 (Again feel free to say RTFM) ;) 21:31:23 you can subdivide more with :parts 21:31:45 Ohh okay, I see 21:32:00 I would want a thread for each uri since each can take a while 21:32:05 Would that be bad? 21:32:26 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:27 Thread size = uri list size 21:32:35 Which can vary between calls 21:33:04 -!- Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:04 right, so (pmap 'vector #'fetch :parts (length uris) uris) 21:33:26 Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 21:33:31 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:32 Perfect thanks! 21:35:12 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has left #lisp 21:35:40 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:49 hrmpf, does Genera have an equivalent of C-h c from Emacs? 21:35:59 ie. ask what a key does by pressing it? 21:36:47 otherwise discovering where things are mapped is less than convenient, because I end up doing something unsavory and landing in the debugger, which I cannot resume from because I don't know where Resume key is 21:39:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40:15 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:08 why should I use LET instead of SETF? (should I take this question to #clnoobs or #lisp-lab?) 21:41:54 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:58 setf cannot create new bindings 21:43:41 what does that mean? 21:43:57 and that is the question for #clnoobs or #lisp-lab 21:44:01 desophos: it means (setf somethingnotdefinebefore 42) is not legal 21:44:01 :) 21:44:20 oh :O 21:44:22 i see 21:44:33 thanks! 21:45:08 so the only reason to use setf is for global vars? 21:45:38 no 21:45:40 ...no, read PCL 21:45:47 setf can be used to modify existing local or global variables alike 21:45:48 desophos: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 21:45:52 to redefine globals, i mean 21:46:00 and let can be used on global variables too 21:46:02 i'm reading another book atm 21:46:14 desophos: LET and SETF do different things 21:46:45 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 if you know C, then LET is "int foo 42;", whereas SETF is = in "foo = 13;" 21:46:57 err, "int foo = 42;" 21:47:26 it'd be equally wrong to say that "= is only for globals then" 21:47:51 alright 21:48:22 so is it poor style to enclose everything in LET definitions then? 21:48:35 no 21:48:41 I don't really know what you mean by that 21:51:00 Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:01 a LET clause has its own scope, right? 21:51:33 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:51:37 yes 21:51:42 okay good 21:51:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:51:45 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-031-109.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:52:30 so to define local variables you have to use LET and enclose all the code using those vars within the LET body, right? 21:53:10 okay wait 21:53:14 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 21:53:29 Right. 21:53:47 nightshade427: I misread what you said. If you want number of threads = number of uris, then there's no need to specify :parts because it's already the number of threads. 21:53:54 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:40 so you would use SETF when you want a variable that you'll use in more than one context, essentially? because if you created it with LET, it would expire at the end of that scope 21:55:01 no 21:55:30 unless it was already global, your var... 21:55:44 outside let's scope it'll vanish ....otherwise.... 21:55:51 setf is only used for changing values 21:55:54 yes 21:55:56 not for creating anything 21:56:10 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:19 desophos: SETF is assignment to an existing variable, simple as that 21:57:11 it does not create or in any way change the nature of the bindings; those have to exist before 21:57:46 LET creates bindings, some other things create bindings too (for instance, arguments to a function are bindings), SETF updates them 21:58:00 got it 21:58:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:18 or you'd enclose all contexts within the scope of that let.... 21:58:35 oleo: that sentence has close to no meaning 21:59:48 not sure what he meant by context! 22:00:37 -!- francogrex [~user@239.163-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:01:48 thanks everyone for dealing with my noobness 22:01:52 i'll be back... 22:02:29 isaacbw_ [~ubuntu@ec2-54-235-250-85.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:33 GuilOooo_ [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 (let ((binding1 value1).....)) (context1.....) (context2....)........) 22:04:08 btw, i'm reading Touretzky's Common Lisp - A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation 22:04:18 that's a good one! 22:04:50 i did my research before starting ;) 22:05:04 plus i've tried to learn LISP a couple times before, with poor results 22:05:08 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:14 well, it takes it's time!..... 22:05:17 but now i have a real (read: scary) reason 22:05:23 and lisp is no exception in that...... 22:05:40 true 22:06:03 yeltzooo6 [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:15 copec_ [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:06:16 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-202-242.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:06:29 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:b0f0:afa:a2f4:b590] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:06:34 it requires addiction to have any kind of ....erm 22:06:42 progress! 22:07:01 like with anything else! 22:07:07 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:07 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:08 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:09 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:10 -!- krrrcks [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:12 -!- isaacbw [~ubuntu@ec2-54-235-250-85.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:15 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@clavardage.tocards.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:15 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:16 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:16 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:16 -!- daniel-s_ 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has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:56 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:07:57 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:18 -!- copec_ is now known as copec 22:08:19 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 desophos_ [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 -!- desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 22:08:44 Vutral_ [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has joined #lisp 22:09:10 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 22:09:44 -!- desophos_ [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:10:01 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 22:10:20 krrrcks [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:35 desophos: a good start is to write Lisp instead of LISP :) 22:10:44 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 22:10:48 we haven't called it LISP for about 20 years now 22:10:59 daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@2001:388:608c:4c40:f9d8:3bf9:361a:1c6f] has joined #lisp 22:11:00 40 22:11:07 time passes fast. 22:11:16 haha really? 22:11:26 pjb: really? Uppercase-only was still relatively common in the 80s 22:11:32 desophos: terminals with lower cases were invented in the 70s. 22:11:55 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/photos/IO/keyboard-9647.jpg <-- "space cadet keyboard" is very much not an exaggeration 22:12:34 now where's my Resume? 22:12:45 karupanerura [~karupaner@www13355ui.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:12:45 cibs [~cibs@60-251-40-253.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:51 dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #lisp 22:13:00 "Multics MACLISP" was still written that way, but "Interlisp" was written like that. 22:13:21 wasn't CL mostly MACLISP? 22:13:53 yep 22:14:55 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:03 lmj`: Okay even easier, thank you ;) 22:18:14 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:18:56 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 22:18:57 ttm 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[~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:56 karswell [~user@87.114.128.190] has joined #lisp 23:27:53 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:43 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:30 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 23:33:45 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:06 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:35:48 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:52 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:00 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 23:39:30 hi #lisp 23:39:56 i am trying to get interactive programming working with this piece of code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138863 23:40:26 Everyone else seems to be able to create a function similar to this and call it and swank will update the running instance 23:40:54 i don't see it updating anything. calling the function returnes NIL which doesn't sound right. 23:41:08 any thoughts on debugging this? not googling a lot on the topic 23:43:46 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:26 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:47:16 does cffi work on 64bit? I'm getting errors about my gcc libraries not being compatible 23:47:44 Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.29.185] has joined #lisp 23:47:46 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:51 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:14 it looks like the makefile is trying to cross compile 23:48:15 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:33 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:48:45 isaacbw: just so someone answers, i don't know 23:48:47 >_< 23:48:54 the eu contingent is fully asleep i think 23:49:20 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:49:28 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:49:42 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:51 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:51:14 isaacbw: it works on 64 bit 23:51:14 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51:16 :P thanks for the answer anyway 23:52:03 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 23:53:02 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:07 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:47 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp