00:00:07 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:04:50 -!- turbopape [~turbopape@41.226.158.228] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 00:05:22 Any other obvious things? 00:12:22 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 00:13:05 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:36 -!- bitonic [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:20:41 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 00:28:03 -!- gr4nf [~gr4nf@190.86.177.25] has left #lisp 00:28:10 -!- gr4nf1 [~gr4nf@190.86.177.25] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:28:40 -!- harish [~harish@119.56.126.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:10 momo-reina [~user@112.207.220.8] has joined #lisp 00:33:04 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:08 fridim__ [~fridim@174.92.206.239] has joined #lisp 00:34:18 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:59 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has left #lisp 00:38:00 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 00:38:39 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:39:18 djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 00:39:26 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:40:36 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-156.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:42 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:54:45 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:57 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:56:23 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:57:02 sohail [~sohail@108.161.116.248] has joined #lisp 00:57:02 -!- sohail [~sohail@108.161.116.248] has quit [Changing host] 00:57:02 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:59:21 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:01:00 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 01:02:22 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:54 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:07:50 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 01:10:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:14:28 I'm having difficulties with logical operations. I have two (unsigned-byte 32) and I would like that (lognand 0 0) => 4294967295 but (lognand 0 0) => -1. Using (coerce (lognand 0 0) '(unsigned-byte 32)) does not work, unfortunately. 01:14:54 didi: extract the 32 bits you want. 01:15:06 (ldb (byte 32 0) -1) 01:15:35 Xach: Awesome. Thank you. 01:15:40 negative numbers have a theoretically infinite number of leading 1 bits. 01:15:49 oic 01:15:54 in CL, anyway. 01:16:06 i should really get a more solid idea of how lisp's 2-adic bitness works... 01:20:04 walter [~walter@24.218.217.69] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:07 -!- walter [~walter@24.218.217.69] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:29:45 Guest58978 [~james@cpe-70-112-198-99.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:32 -!- CrazyEddy [~sheriffal@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:34:54 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:08 -!- momo-reina [~user@112.207.220.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:58 bitonic [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:41 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:38:38 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43:11 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:43:53 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 01:44:02 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.92] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:49:32 CrazyEddy [~protopres@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:49:35 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-newecybcpwrujjlq] has joined #lisp 01:51:39 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:53:40 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:03:18 -!- bitonic [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:04:18 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:04:43 -!- aw|incendiary [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:05:25 nilly [~nil@c-71-231-216-136.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:47 kotharia [~kotharia@46.22.223.130] has joined #lisp 02:08:01 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:21 who remembers how to checkout from CVS at common-lisp.net? 02:12:34 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:38 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:42 the page with CVS access instructions is supposed to be here: http://common-lisp.net/faq.shtml 02:12:48 but it is also lost 02:13:46 antonv: http://web.archive.org/web/20130403124212/http://common-lisp.net/faq.shtml not a good answer, but. 02:14:01 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:44 Bike: on the contrary, not a bad answer - works for me 02:16:45 thanks 02:16:56 I just need to make a patch for cl-smpt 02:17:06 cl-smTP 02:17:25 -!- Guest58978 is now known as jimrthy 02:17:34 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:34 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:08 I don't want to be a bad person here, and I don't have much time at all...but CSV *really* sucks. 02:18:22 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:27 So I'm being a bad person. 02:18:46 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:18:53 csv is one of the best formats to use if you want to separate things with commas 02:19:42 Acck...oops. CVS. (*I* really suck) 02:20:03 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:19 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:31 Git's just better. If it's open source, *please* switch to github. 02:21:47 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:51 And my family just got home...have a great evening 02:21:54 -!- jimrthy [~james@cpe-70-112-198-99.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:23:23 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:40 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:14 bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:50 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:25:33 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:44 paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:57 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:49 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.105.229] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:30:08 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:31:02 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:11 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:26 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:26 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 02:36:07 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has left #lisp 02:36:12 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:53 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:17 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:38:47 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:09 -!- antonv [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:47:26 -!- Guest18235 [~stephen@cpe-72-229-225-244.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:52:13 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:54:29 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.22.49] has joined #lisp 02:54:30 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.22.49] has quit [Changing host] 02:54:30 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:58:07 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:32 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:47 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:58 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 03:12:35 autom8tr [autom8r@SDF.ORG] has joined #lisp 03:13:57 pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has joined #lisp 03:14:08 -!- pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has quit [Client Quit] 03:14:43 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:31 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 03:25:39 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:28:33 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:28:39 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:00 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:32:08 paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:02 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@174.92.206.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:59 -!- [ui] [~wp@99.130.104.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48:15 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 03:51:38 Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-70-162.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:07 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:40 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:53:48 I've downloaded ltk for some GUI fun. In the REPL I've compiled the file with (compile-file "ltk") and also loaded it with (load "ltk"). The examples run fine in the REPL if I manually type them in. However I'm not sure how to run and load the modules from a source code file. If that makes sense. 03:53:55 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:21 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:54:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 03:55:01 -!- snowp [~fh@192.81.217.194] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:08 snowp [~fh@192.81.217.194] has joined #lisp 03:55:09 -!- karbak [~kar@198.211.96.131] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:16 karbak [~kar@198.211.96.131] has joined #lisp 03:55:18 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:27 ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 03:55:27 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 03:55:27 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 03:56:36 sohail [~sohail@108.161.116.248] has joined #lisp 03:56:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@108.161.116.248] has quit [Changing host] 03:56:36 sohail 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[~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:10 -!- Hydan is now known as Hydan` 12:49:18 Is it fair to copypaste the same json code until file is 1000 lines long to test how fast is decoder? 12:49:21 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:28 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:38 ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:08 -!- ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:54:05 hitecnologys: it is completely unfair to all the objects you do not put into the file 12:55:49 <|3b|> probably want to test on a variety of real files, since they might be slow at specific constructs, or deeply nested vs flat structures 12:55:56 -!- dsp__ is now known as dsp_ 12:56:05 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 12:56:39 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:59:16 <|3b|> might also want to test some specific unusual cases, like single long string, long array of small integers, deeply nested otherwise empty objects/arrays, etc, to make sure there are no unexpected length-dependent slowdowns 12:59:33 -!- oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [] 13:00:29 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:00:38 Aha, that's exactly what I have. I just copied that 10 times because it taked 1ms for each library to decode it. 13:01:04 I have long strings, long floats, nested objects, long and short arrays. 13:01:09 surely there's a standard "Oh shit" JSON document out there for you to parse 13:01:34 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02:14 <|3b|> for those, i'd say make it longer rather than repeat the same thing 13:02:26 Hm, ok. 13:03:16 *|3b|* would expect about the same results from a properly implemented lib, but finding out that it isn't properly implemented is part of the point of benchmarking :) 13:03:48 On big examples I notices the difference. 13:04:56 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:05:02 The leader is ST-JSON, then YASON and the slowest implementation is CL-JSON. But I'm going to do more testing, it's just decoder benchmarks. 13:05:14 s/notices/noticed/ 13:06:28 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:44 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 13:06:49 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:07:17 seggy [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has joined #lisp 13:07:31 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:08:38 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:41 I was very surprised, I expected YASON to be fastest actually. 13:15:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:39 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-253-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:29 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:19:05 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:19:24 yeah I'm not a fan of how lisp does multiple return values 13:19:43 AeroNotix: What is it you don't like about it? 13:19:59 Perhaps, there's something I'm missing though? What's the benefit of it not automatically being multiple-value-list ? 13:20:11 faust45 [~faust45@92-49-198-91.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 13:20:22 loke_: in most other languages which have multiple return values they're automatically lists/tuples/iterables etc 13:20:33 or at least, you can't miss them being multiple return values 13:20:46 AeroNotix: Right. So what is it about them that you don't like? 13:21:00 loke_: I can miss the multiple returns if I don't know it returns multiple values 13:21:09 Why does it matter though? 13:21:14 and I would prefer the default case being to bind a list, rather than the head of a list 13:21:15 AeroNotix: Which is exactly the point 13:21:33 loke_: how so? 13:21:49 aerique: MV's are usually used when you have aprimary value, and then other values that you may or may not want (usually not) 13:21:50 AeroNotix: multiple values are optional, you can always return lists instead. 13:21:53 The point of multiple returns is to return additional information that is not necessary. 13:22:09 ogamita``: what about libraries which do this? 13:22:14 And for CL operators, there are not a lot of them that return multiple values, so you can easily wrap them. 13:22:15 Shinmera: drakma is using them to return useful values/. 13:22:26 AeroNotix: ah, perhaps you don't like a given library? 13:22:40 I'm all for writing one's own code. 13:22:53 ogamita``: well, ok. Then maybe like Shinmera said if they return unnecessary information, that would be fine. I didn't know that was the convention 13:23:02 I haven't used drakma, so I can't say. 13:23:03 ogamita``: writing a http client? Please 13:23:11 httpc's are boringly horrible to write 13:23:12 I only use a NIH library as a last ressort. 13:23:24 HTTP clients are easy to write: there are RFCs! 13:23:25 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:26 The primary return value of Drakma is the content. In the simple case, you can simply use that and be happy 13:23:57 ogamita``: easy to write yes, boring, yes. 13:24:13 Shinmera: http://weitz.de/drakma/#dict-request 13:24:16 Not really boring. 13:24:17 quite good docs though 13:24:26 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:24:31 hitecnologys: really boring 13:24:35 for me at least 13:24:40 I've done it plenty of times in C 13:24:45 Seems like it uses MVs like I'd expect it to. 13:24:47 implementing http servers/clients 13:24:47 ogamita``: Why do you have that opinion? I'd say it's reasonable to _always_ (if possible) use libraries, as that will help you from reinventing the wheel 13:25:19 Also, Implementing a HTTP client is not easy, if you want to do it right. 13:25:29 AeroNotix: I tried, not boring at all for me. 13:25:37 loke_: ogamita`` they're also well tested and have the benefit of enabling contributors to easily contribute (or in the case of closed-source, new programmers to get up to speed) since they'll be using libraries they know 13:25:45 hitecnologys: we have different ideas of fun :) 13:25:52 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:26:05 interesting is not necessarily fun. 13:26:26 hitecnologys: so you have a fully compliant httpc ? 13:26:29 And fun is not necessarily interesting. 13:26:31 loke_: that's because libraries always have problems, bugged, undocumented, misfeatured, etc. 13:26:46 ogamita``: what's different about your library, then 13:26:48 ? 13:26:49 AeroNotix: of course not, I haven't finished it. I was just playing with HTTP. 13:26:49 Or as in the case of AeroNotix, they may use multiple values. 13:27:04 AeroNotix: because the code I write, I know it! :-) 13:28:01 I don't see the problem with how Drakma uses MVs. The primary return value is the requested content, which is what I'd expect. Everything else is additional, unnecessary information that can be used to deal with other stuff. I'd expect any HTTP library to primarily return the content and then other stuff as complementary information. 13:28:09 it uses my own conventions, the bugs it has don't bother me (otherwise they would have been debugged), there's no problem of documentation, and I know exactly what features it has. 13:28:41 Shinmera: some are more equal than others 13:29:05 ...what do you mean by that? 13:29:16 But foremost, when you have to do something, (and in particular in lisp), it is often just much faster to just write it yourself than googleing for a library, finding one that matches your needs and legal constraints, and learning how to use it. 13:29:30 Shinmera: it's a joke really, to you or I things which are important are different. 13:29:39 Ah. 13:29:41 Shinmera: I have one problem with it. I'd like to see a condition raised when a status code notifies an error, than returning the code as the second return value 13:29:52 loke_: That I agree with, yes. 13:29:54 Wrappers. 13:29:54 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:58 Shinmera: Small point though, and I can see why other people would have differien gopion 13:30:22 It's still more reasonable to use MVs in this case than a list imo. 13:30:31 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:30:41 I think drakma is decent substrate for building something on top that does what you want. 13:30:43 Shinmera: or a type would be good 13:30:45 shimoh of course 13:30:52 Shinmera: of course 13:31:02 genkinodenki [~glure@83-145-213-33.localloop.fi] has joined #lisp 13:31:03 It provides all the info on which to build. I rarely find it that convenient to use directly. 13:31:15 Xach: do you have any open-sourced code which does this? 13:31:28 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 AeroNotix: ZS3 uses drakma. 13:31:48 ZS3? 13:32:05 It is open-sourced code I wrote that builds on drakma. 13:32:12 link to source/project? 13:32:24 AeroNotix: it's in QUicklisp 13:32:38 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 13:32:43 xach.com/lisp/zs3/ has the docs and other info 13:32:43 I also wrote code that uses Drakma. It's also in Quicklisp. 13:33:07 Xach: ohh ok, this is for AWS, I actually meant a httpc which builds on Drakma 13:33:12 While I'm already in here, does anyone know of a way to get the list of all passed arguments in a method? Including the keywords and so on, I mean. 13:33:37 CL-GDATA: https://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/ 13:33:42 Shinmera: isn't there a keyword which you can put at the beginning which does this? 13:33:48 &all or something 13:33:55 I'm sure I've read about something like that 13:34:09 AeroNotix: &whole. But that's only for macros 13:34:16 loke_: that's it, only macros drats 13:34:18 Yeah, that's what I guessed. 13:34:21 Shinmera: no. but it's not uncommon to do (defun foo (bar &rest args &key k1 k2 k3) ...) 13:34:37 then ARGS will hold the keyword arguments. 13:34:40 Xach: I need it for a method though. 13:34:46 Same for defmethod. 13:34:49 Xach: and I can't change the generic function 13:34:58 If you can't change the GF you're out of luck. 13:35:01 -!- asedeno_ [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:35:02 drat. 13:35:03 Also, I keep seeing Alexandria pop up- is this like CL's "2nd standard library" like Boost for C++? 13:35:16 AeroNotix: Pretty much 13:35:26 cool 13:35:28 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:35 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:35:45 AeroNotix: and just like Boost, a lot of people hate it 13:35:48 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 loke_: understandable, people have alot of NIH 13:36:16 well, it's not like boost in that it doesn't radically change the entire language in mind-melting ways 13:36:22 well, in both cases, there are very valid arguments. 13:36:27 it's just a bunch of simple things that you could write yourself, but why would you? 13:36:41 I just use it as a toolkit. 13:38:29 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:38:51 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:55 Here's a thought I just had 13:39:11 Is it possible to write all functions in a single let* body? 13:39:20 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jyenelqkwukoftkt] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39:29 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:29 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:39:32 AeroNotix: what do you mean? 13:39:35 since they allow arbitrary expressions in their bindings, wouldn't it be possible? 13:40:03 AeroNotix: yes, well. You could. With a bit of Y combinator, sure. 13:40:06 loke_: as in, all program functions must be implemented in JUST the binding section and the let*'s actual body can only have a single value 13:40:08 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:40:08 AeroNotix: but why? 13:40:12 loke_: sciece 13:40:14 science 13:40:33 The only reason I see is if you want to learn about the Y combinator 13:40:48 Well, NOW I want to learn about the Y Combinator, yes! 13:40:50 :) 13:41:18 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:25 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 13:41:42 Y = f.(x.f (x x)) (x.f (x x)) oh that's all it is? 13:41:47 makes perfect sense wikipedia 13:41:49 yep 13:41:54 :/ 13:41:58 hooray for lambda calculus. 13:42:03 I really, REALLY hate that notation though 13:42:23 in a nutshell, what computation can it allow me to do that otherwise is impossible and/or difficult 13:42:24 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:40 AeroNotix: Doesn't the wikipedia entry say? 13:42:51 Kind of 13:43:05 lol @ impossible AND difficult 13:43:13 genkinodenki: I knew someone would pick up on that 13:43:31 AeroNotix: It allows for an infinite loop in your LET*-only scenario 13:43:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:44:03 The idea is to call a function, passing a parameter which is a function that, when called, will call the original function again 13:44:14 -!- LeopoldBloom [~SA@117.222.190.142] has left #lisp 13:44:29 hmm 13:45:50 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:08 Mathieu [~cicak@42.61.250.9] has joined #lisp 13:49:50 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-225-36-122.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:02 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:51:29 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-225-36-122.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 Seems like AeroNotix is writing his first Y combinator 13:52:00 loke_: trying to 13:52:23 For SCIENCE! 13:52:50 indeed, what's wrong with learning? 13:53:05 bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:13 Nothing. I'm learning Quantum mechnaics right now 13:53:22 and I'm not even a student :-) 13:53:31 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:32 Better education usually means you're harder to manipulate, which might be a wrong thing given the right circumstances 13:53:39 ;) 13:53:55 AeroNotix: "Either Alexandria contains functions that pretend to be better that the ones in the Common Lisp standard, in which case they are heresy, or it contains functions with the same functionality, in which case they are superfluous." :) 13:54:01 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:54:01 loke_: I was quite into physics a few years ago, then an unfortunate sibling incident ended in my books being burned. 13:54:07 Shinmera: I'm actually quite terrified at what I see happening in the US right now 13:54:25 loke_: Yeah, same, but that's offtopic. 13:54:31 AeroNotix: That's why online is good :-) 13:54:44 I'm following the DrPhysicsA channel on Youtube. Awesome 13:54:45 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56:07 loke_: will check it otu 13:57:45 -!- sz0` [~user@92.44.62.223] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:57:55 -!- Mathieu [~cicak@42.61.250.9] has quit [Quit: Mathieu] 13:57:59 AeroNotix: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIVaddFslWk1TFoKNrvh99Q 13:58:02 sz0 [~user@92.44.62.223] has joined #lisp 13:58:19 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:58:31 awesome :) 13:59:23 AeroNotix: I find these lectures to be better than the Standford lectures with Leonard Susskind 13:59:29 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:59:56 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:24 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:00:35 ok brb 14:00:39 also, English guy. I prefer listening to someone from my homeland 14:00:41 -!- pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:01:12 yeah, so do we Americans 14:02:14 "Y'all got these gluons over right dem dere, den we ride up on this here cheeseburger... uh I mean quarks. Pesky little thangs." 14:02:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:14 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:50 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:07:49 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:52 danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:09 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:44 AeroNotix: reading math off of wikipedia is less than helpful if you're trying to learn. better for reference. 14:13:20 AeroNotix: best explanation / example of the Y-Combinator I've ever read was in the Little Schemer/Lisper 14:13:53 -!- yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:54 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:03 -!- hypno_ is now known as hypno 14:16:17 daat418 [~daat418@mobile-166-137-187-050.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 -!- daat418 [~daat418@mobile-166-137-187-050.mycingular.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 14:17:46 j_king: yeah, payday after next (new job w00t) I am dumping some cash into a stack of Lisp books 14:19:54 -!- Hydan` is now known as Hydan 14:21:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:21:42 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:05 AeroNotix: coolio. Lisp books are like virii my shelf is practically over-run with them, outnumbering the books on C (the second largest population) :S 14:24:22 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:25:02 j_king: I have a pretty wide collection but Erlang is number 1, followed by Python and Go. 14:25:06 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.77] has joined #lisp 14:25:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.77] has quit [Changing host] 14:25:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:25:11 I currently only have PCL 14:25:13 for Lisp 14:25:28 Cool. 14:25:38 Most of the books in number is Lisp, in size is Java for me. 14:25:59 Shinmera: probably because of the Code examples :P 14:26:11 and yeah, C++ is like that 14:26:13 I only have like 2 books on C. And I think about 5 in lisp. 14:26:33 Aside from PCL, what's good? 14:26:34 ,books 14:26:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-116-16.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 14:26:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-116-16.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:26:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:26:59 I'm currently reading On Lisp, which I find to be quite interesting and fun to read too. 14:27:13 AeroNotix: Keene's CLOS book, Norvig's PAIP 14:27:24 PAIP, On Lisp, GISC, Little/Seasoned/Reasoned Schemer, LOL 14:27:28 Shinmera: Have a look at Let over Lambda then, too. It's somewhat similar in spirit (or follows on, maybe). 14:27:37 Otherwise, yes, PAIP, Keene. 14:27:49 antoszka: I have thought about getting that, but I need to stop buying books and start actually reading them. 14:28:04 antoszka: I will definitely get it once I'm through with the ones I haven't read yet. 14:28:05 -!- nilly [~nil@c-71-231-216-136.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:28:10 Oh, SICP of course. 14:28:14 Shinmera: Most of it is available online, though yeah, I definitely prefer to have dead-tree form books, too. 14:28:25 have read most of SICP online, but prefer actual books myself 14:28:30 I can't stand reading books on devices, unfortunately. 14:28:35 nor I 14:28:44 Well, people have their little disabilities. 14:28:55 Technical books on e-readers are still pretty terrible (but fiction works great) 14:29:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:29:16 classic Zhivago 14:29:17 can't read on backlit pixelated screens though. :) 14:29:18 Shinmera: Same here. 14:29:26 Personally, I find that libraries work well, since most CS books rapidly become useless. 14:29:44 but then you have to go out in public, disability #2 14:29:59 at least not after staring at one for 8-11 hours a day. ;) 14:30:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:30:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:47 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:31:44 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 14:31:52 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:15 I'm writing an emulator for a very simple machine. It seems to be working, but it's running somewhat slow. Here is my profiling . The two parts it's spending the most time are SB-IMPL::VECTOR-SUBSEQ-DISPATCH/SIMPLE-ARRAY-UNSIGNED[...] and SB-KERNEL:UB32-BASH-COPY. Are there straight ways to better the performance? Maybe with declarations? I'm very much a newbie. 14:36:35 faust45_ [~faust45@132-112-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:49 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 14:37:39 -!- faust45 [~faust45@92-49-198-91.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:39 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:39 -!- faust45_ is now known as faust45 14:38:12 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 14:38:36 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:39:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:04 -!- ogamita`` is now known as ogamita 14:48:24 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.98] has joined #lisp 14:50:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:50:46 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.98] has quit [Client Quit] 14:53:51 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:36 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:09 mpstyler [~user@176.73.154.121] has joined #lisp 14:56:15 didi: you seem to be calling copy-seq a lot, are you sure that's neccessary? 14:57:26 you can't speed up copy-seq all that much, no matter what you still have to actually copy the data 14:57:53 if you don't plan on modifying whatever it is you're copying (not sure here) you might want to look into displaced-arrays (maybe) 14:58:07 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:58:15 segv-: Indeed. I'm thinking about it, but I think it's a spec requirement whenever a `load' instruction is called. My profiling is from a program stress test for this machine. 14:58:28 segv-: Hum, displaced-arrays... I'm look into it. Thanks. 14:58:32 Is there a way to tell quicklisp to regenerate the index of local projects? I know update-all-dists accomplishes that among other things. 14:58:36 s/I'm/I'll 14:58:40 pnpuff [~l-250e@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:59:04 didi: can you paste some of the code? 14:59:05 -!- pnpuff [~l-250e@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:59:09 If you adopt a more functional style, you will use more immutable data structures, and therefore you won't have to copy your data all the time. 14:59:32 maybe you could just cache the data returned by load? 14:59:36 The downside is that you may have to copy (some) of your data when you want to "modify" immutable data. 14:59:37 maybe some copy-on-write magic? 14:59:39 segv-: Sure. I can paste the whole machine. It's a mess, but hey... ;^) 14:59:42 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:13 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00:23 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has left #lisp 15:00:37 didi: that 'load' that you mentioned, is that cl:load? 15:00:44 #d 15:00:58 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:12 segv-: No, sorry. It's one of the machine instructions. It means copy an memory array and load it at the "program" array. 15:01:18 PuercoPop: quicklisp-client:register-local-projects might do it 15:01:41 void64 [~luke@178.122.50.246] has joined #lisp 15:01:51 segv-: Here it is, the whole machine: Laughter is unnecessary. 15:01:54 -!- yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:02:04 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@107-219-7-73.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:26 didi: you should see some of the crap i commit, i've long since lost the right to laugh at others' code 15:02:47 *didi* hugs segv- 15:02:51 fortitude: thank you! 15:03:13 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:03:38 didi: you know you can do (defun (setf heap-ref) (new-value id offest) ...) 15:03:40 right? 15:03:53 segv-: Not really... :^( 15:04:27 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:10 yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:24 didi: op 12 has this: (copy-seq (heap (reg-b p))) 15:05:33 segv-: Indeed. 15:05:38 if i read that correctly (heap (reg-b p)) is just a 32bit int 15:05:42 why the copy-seq at all? 15:06:09 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:06:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:45 segv-: Ah, my terminology is horrible, I know. (reg-b p) will return a uint32, but (heap u) will return an array. 15:07:04 would it be reasonable to define register-a and co. as symbol-macros here? 15:07:10 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:23 oh whoops 15:07:28 forgot you were taking a platter arg 15:07:28 nvm 15:07:55 "platter" is a name from the spec. It's a big-endian uint32. 15:08:20 didi: hm, it looks like your program wants to copy a lot of the arrays on the heap 15:08:24 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:08:53 not sure how you can really get around that (you can of course make copy-seq a bit faster by specializing on u32, but you're not going to get a x2 or x10 speed up) 15:08:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:09:41 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 15:09:50 segv-: I see. I appreciate your time. Thank you. 15:10:27 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:10:54 didi two things to try: 1) instead of using copy-seq write a u32-copy function which makes the array and does the copying 'manually' and stick a bunch of type declarations in there 15:11:04 2) try to add in copy-on-write array 15:11:11 _veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:11 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:11:11 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 so instead of aref and (setf aref) you'd have other function which do the copy-seq if, and only if, (setf aref) is ever actually called 15:12:41 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:13:09 looking at your profile list it would seem that um::set-heap-ref is not called that often 15:13:38 ckoch786 [~cory@107-219-7-73.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:06 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B3C61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:19 didi: or, if you can, just count how many times op 2 is called 15:22:32 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:23:27 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:38 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:27:50 bitonic [~user@pool-96-224-2-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:52 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-128-84.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:42 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:f531:738:c253:327e] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:31:13 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:20 -!- Hydan is now known as Hydan` 15:31:28 nilsi [~nilsi@112.65.211.100] has joined #lisp 15:31:57 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:00 -!- Hydan` is now known as Hydan 15:32:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:32:22 didi: how do i run it? 15:32:42 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@112.65.211.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:18 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.150] has joined #lisp 15:33:33 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33:58 wow! someone wrote clozure cl support for buildapp! open source -- it works! 15:34:58 stassats: :^) Here is the page which describes it: . And here is a link to the machine program I ran: . I didn't run it to the end though. 15:35:44 stassats: The entry function is `exec-program'. 15:35:53 i figured that much 15:35:59 Good, good. 15:39:43 tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has joined #lisp 15:39:49 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-bntqpaqqcdlwpugg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:51 Xach: linky? 15:40:04 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:40:30 -!- ZabaQ [~ZabaQ@86.63.2.14] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian - www.trillian.im ~] 15:43:50 -!- bitonic [~user@pool-96-224-2-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:45:31 j_king: https://github.com/xach/buildapp/pull/10 15:45:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46:26 -!- bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:46:35 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 15:46:38 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 Xach bhyde: good news. :) 15:47:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:47:44 fightback [~david@xdsl-31-164-223-22.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:49:21 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:49:29 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:51:50 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 15:52:10 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 15:52:13 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 wicked 15:52:17 now for someone to do clisp 15:53:19 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 15:53:19 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:53:57 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:22 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 15:56:00 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 15:58:08 hi, I have a problem with asdf:system-relative-pathname 15:58:14 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:26 What is it? 15:58:38 I quickloaded a system, then I need that function to get files in another dir than the QL one 15:59:03 I tried setf-ing the slots absolute-pathname, relative-pathname and even source-file of the system 15:59:17 but s-r-p still goes to the quicklisp system 15:59:24 is there a cache I should clear? 15:59:54 Did you load another .asd for the same system? 15:59:58 From the new pathname you want? 15:59:59 why do you want to modify system-relative-pathname? 16:00:10 Xach: nope, just setf-ed the slots 16:00:28 I'm with stassats. Why? It doesn't seem like it's the right tool for the job. 16:01:03 I'll register the system in the local projects, then 16:01:10 thanks 16:03:15 nilsi_ [~nilsi@122.188.105.4] has joined #lisp 16:04:53 S3Xinfo [S3Xinfo@cpc16-finc14-2-0-cust85.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:31 -!- S3Xinfo [S3Xinfo@cpc16-finc14-2-0-cust85.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 16:06:26 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:53 -!- fightback [~david@xdsl-31-164-223-22.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: I was watching my other computer for too long.] 16:08:22 ismdeep [~ismdeep@117.136.21.122] has joined #lisp 16:08:24 -!- yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:09:48 Hi 16:10:18 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:54 -!- diadara_ is now known as diadara 16:13:43 yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:22 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:45 ahungry__ [~null@173-162-33-85-michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:28 -!- ismdeep [~ismdeep@117.136.21.122] has quit [Quit: ] 16:17:45 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:19:18 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:09 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 16:20:16 -!- cory786 [~cory@107-219-7-73.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:21:28 -!- yakov [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:06 `^_^v [~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:35 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:43 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.2.102] has joined #lisp 16:26:14 so... I have a function in my package which shadows a built-in. I'm not clear on what to do in this situation. 16:26:33 I can see the various shadow functions, but not clear which one my situation is solved by. 16:27:42 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jyenelqkwukoftkt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:27:45 i don't understand the question 16:27:46 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-142-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:27:49 davazp [~user@92.251.233.29.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 16:27:50 if there is a question 16:27:59 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 16:28:02 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.220.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:28:22 Basically I define a function called "delete-file" and when I import my package it says I am obviously redefining that function, besides renaming it, what options do I have? 16:28:35 the best is probably to rename your function 16:28:44 I'm trying to iterate through a plist but the form (loop for (key value . rest) on property-list by #'cddr ...) appears to bind value to the cdr not the second. 16:28:45 > besides renaming my function 16:28:55 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 16:29:16 -!- sz0 [~user@92.44.62.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:23 AeroNotix: I not just shadow-import it? 16:29:29 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:32 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:35 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 16:29:48 AeroNotix: use (:shadowing-import-from dependant-package) in your defpackage 16:29:58 Hmm, I tried that. 16:31:06 (:shadowing-import-from :cl :delete-file) 16:31:13 still gives me the redifining error 16:31:19 redef* 16:31:34 but you want the delete-file symbol from your package to shadow the cl one, right? 16:31:34 :delete-file is in the keyword package 16:31:48 oh, never mind. 16:31:54 ck``: yeah 16:32:25 when you "import your package", how are you doing so? 16:32:39 (most people use a package, but that's your business, I guess) 16:32:40 (ql:quickload :my-package) 16:32:43 why not just paste the whole thing? 16:32:47 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:55 stassats: the whole package definition? 16:32:56 sure 16:33:01 yes, to paste.lisp.org 16:33:05 instead of :cl put the package you are redefining :delete-file in 16:33:44 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:33:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138590 16:34:20 so, it's (:shadow :delete-file) 16:34:25 aha ok 16:34:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:39 stassats: still does it 16:34:55 and when you (:use #:cl-stack-objectstore) in another package, it'd be (:shadowing-import-from :cl-stack-objectstore :delete-file) 16:35:05 AeroNotix: I imagine your package system is now in an awful state. Try restarting your lisp. 16:35:12 fuck it- I'll just rename the function 16:35:17 no wait 16:35:22 get it to work then rename it! 16:35:24 haha 16:35:26 ok 16:35:30 yeah, this is a good thing to learn 16:35:32 where's fun in giving up? 16:36:02 well, to be honest- I wanted to do it without causing problems for the person importing it. If it means when it's imported you have to pay special attention to what it's shadowing then I don't care. 16:36:11 More work for users == Less happy users. 16:36:34 I'll figure this shadowing business out another time 16:36:47 there should be a balance. if there is no work, user dont like the product 16:37:25 AeroNotix: i rarely :use little packages, so i would use cl-stack-objectstore:delete-file 16:37:54 AeroNotix: putting (:shadow delete-file) in your defpackage will make it work like you want 16:38:08 and what makes you think that anybody would use your object store? 16:38:23 everyone is writing their own nowadays 16:38:27 And? 16:38:34 you mean for openstack? 16:38:39 -!- irq0 [~irq0@amy.irq0.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:39:09 It's a theoretical improvement, I'm not designing thinking people will use it in their droves- I'm designing it so that if someone were to use it then it would have a nice UX. 16:39:51 afaict there are two other Common Lisp openstack bindings of which none are complete. 16:40:06 irq0 [~irq0@amy.irq0.org] has joined #lisp 16:40:17 usually just implementing the authentication portion and letting the project rot. 16:40:35 I've implemented the bindings in a couple of languages fully. 16:41:01 stassats: unless you were talking about a different object store? 16:41:20 any object store 16:41:34 you know what openstack is, and specifically the openstack object store? 16:41:43 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-diqgdkuuzxvbkmxy] has joined #lisp 16:41:43 Well, object stores are out of fashion these days. 16:41:59 I'm being trolled here 16:42:03 Queryable document stores and triple stores, on the other hand. :) 16:42:31 This object store is primarily for CDN purposes, it's not NoSQL or anything like that. 16:43:47 AeroNotix: jd is working on cl-openstack bindings also right? 16:44:19 Is there a way for a macro to expand into multiple forms? 16:44:52 PuercoPop: I'm not sure who jd is 16:45:11 but the bindings which I found were either not touched in a while or implemented very limited subsections of the api 16:45:25 PuercoPop: use a progn? 16:45:47 PuercoPop: no, expand into one form using what Shinmera said 16:46:03 Why is progn called progn? 16:46:13 because it returns the nth value 16:46:13 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:22 in contrast to prog1 and prog2 16:46:24 it makes after you hear about prog1 16:46:51 oh I didn't know about prog1/2 16:47:01 there's also PROG 16:47:03 *makes sense 16:47:05 but nobody uses it 16:47:09 don't prog1/2 encourage side-effects? 16:47:16 so does progn 16:47:20 there's nothing bad in side-effects 16:47:36 sdemarre [~serge@46.136-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 16:47:43 just don't listen to the functional programming shills 16:47:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:48:02 There's something interesting about limiting them to clearly defined areas 16:48:19 anything that specifies an order of evaluation "encourages side-effects". 16:48:33 So most constructs, then. 16:48:44 I feel that dependency reduction is generally a good thing 16:48:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:48:58 has anynody used cl-mpi under windows? 16:49:28 reducing side-effects tends to make things far easier to write tests for 16:49:36 dlowe: indeed 16:51:22 Shinmera: I'm not sure how to wrap the progn inside the forms as I use loop to generate them. I think I'm dug myself into a hole. https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/cce07fc3772f67093acc 16:51:37 I wouldn't want to cram every problem into a side-effectless model, though 16:51:43 PuercoPop: ,@? 16:51:48 cory786 [~cory@PAT96.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 16:51:54 PuercoPop: `(progn ,@(loop ...)) 16:52:12 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.233.29.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:54 PuercoPop: why is there . rest but it's not used? 16:53:16 and property-list is commonly abbreviated as plist 16:53:23 PuercoPop: https://2.gravatar.com/avatar/0f54d6b36e7d83288a5f02d33bafa014?d=https%3A%2F%2Fidenticons.github.com%2F60751b2bc35908634c23f2313bc2376a.png&s=400 16:53:35 is that photoshopped? 16:53:37 -!- Hydan is now known as Hydan` 16:54:01 I got the rest from this answer http://stackoverflow.com/a/5941916/357198 but it apparently doesn't do what I thought it did (destructure the list in first second and rest) 16:54:18 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:27 stackoverflow is the worst place to go for common lisp advice 16:54:28 why would it be photoshopped? 16:54:37 I dunno, perspective looks weird 16:55:37 except for the answers by Rainer Joswig 16:55:38 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:55:52 and there is one here, and it doesn't have . rest 16:56:30 stassats: well I try to do my due diligence googling or looking at the clhs if I have a clue where to start before bothering people here 16:56:38 -!- Hydan` [~textual@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ZZZzzz] 16:56:38 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:54 *PuercoPop* nods 16:56:56 google tends to be no good for cl either 16:57:21 stassats: needs more knowledgeable people writing about CL 16:57:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:34 jerryzhou [~xiaotaota@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:52 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 16:59:11 PuercoPop: and since it's a macro, you could go with (conforms-to :method :put :request-uri ...) 17:00:25 You wean as keyword args? 17:00:29 *mean 17:00:44 no, &rest plist instead of just plist 17:00:52 -!- AeroNotix [~aero@nat/hp/x-kkosakapfiuiolvl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:01:15 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@122.188.105.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:18 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:05:04 That wouldn't work for what I'm trying to do. I have imported the tests of what is a valid http from gunicorn and what I'm trying to do is read from a while as it was a request and convert it to an plist (as per fukumachi's clack standard) and then verify that it complies to a minimum plist (in order to not test for stuff like :http-server). So the idea is to read the plist from another file. 17:05:39 so, then you can't use a macro 17:06:17 why is that? 17:06:20 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:49 it needs the data to be available at compile-time (macroexpansion time) 17:07:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@46.136-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:53 -!- protist [~protist@136.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:08:12 MAkes sense 17:08:53 i don't how what IS is works, perhaps you'll be able to use it in a function 17:09:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:09:42 -!- mpstyler [~user@176.73.154.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:34 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:59 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:42 I think it does something weird like expanding into something using a lambda that compiles the test's source and then runs it. 17:17:57 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 17:21:12 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-235-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:22:53 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:26:19 nipra [~nipra@122.177.224.219] has joined #lisp 17:27:59 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-mjkuovfhmmkdwqti] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:28:53 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-suunajwlxoetbbjt] has joined #lisp 17:29:20 dnolen [uid2594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-langvzzalnldcjez] has joined #lisp 17:29:26 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-suunajwlxoetbbjt] has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:19 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:10bf:7a36:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:43 ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.92] has joined #lisp 17:33:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:29 -!- jerryzhou 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[~glure@83-145-213-33.localloop.fi] has joined #lisp 18:16:55 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:40 -!- genkinodenki [~glure@83-145-213-33.localloop.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:19:28 -!- glure_ is now known as genkinodenki 18:20:14 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-141-149.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-141-149.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:22:14 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:24:32 segv-: Heh, my custom made copy-u32-array is slower than `copy-seq'. ;^) 18:25:29 wws-ubuntu [~wws@p-68-237-141-149.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:57 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:26:18 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:26:33 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer] 18:28:49 sz0 [~user@94.55.194.230] has joined #lisp 18:31:14 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:31:23 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 18:34:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34:37 Where can I find the email archive between ANSI CL members? I don't remember where I saw it last. 18:35:07 it's on cmu's AI archive somewhere, i think 18:36:53 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.224.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:37:13 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:37:27 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:38:07 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:11 nipra [~nipra@122.177.173.186] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 <_death> b 18:39:12 <_death> sorry, it's http://www.saildart.org/ 18:39:54 didi: i expect copy-seq to be faster, especially when you declare the types right 18:40:09 <_death> also, http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/ 18:40:30 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:02 -!- _death is now known as adeht 18:41:03 -!- danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:21 Thanks. 18:41:40 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 18:41:47 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:32 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:43:01 luke__ [~luke@178.122.103.199] has joined #lisp 18:43:28 -!- sz0 [~user@94.55.194.230] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:45:12 stassats: Yeah. I've seen deleted the code, but `copy-seq' uses some lower level functions that I'm guessing are specialized, where the profiling of my own function showed that it was not using any. 18:45:31 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 18:45:33 -!- luke_ [~luke@86.57.168.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:54 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:45:55 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:28 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:46:54 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2180.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:54 Anyway, I'm intrigued by this. I found a web page from 2006 where the author claims to have a SML implementation that runs the benchmark program in 18 minutes. Mine is probably running for more than 20 minutes and there are still 92 tests to run. 18:47:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:35 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:02 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-83-61-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:08 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:05 -!- diadara_ is now known as diadara 18:56:39 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:56:40 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:57:10 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 18:57:15 Hydan [~textual@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:58:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 18:58:44 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 18:59:45 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:55 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:16 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:12 pnpuff [~l-250e@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:01:22 I stopped it. Almost 10 tests. 90 to go. One hour. :^S 19:01:34 -!- pnpuff [~l-250e@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:28 bitonic [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:30 ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.92] has joined #lisp 19:04:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:06:58 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:34 ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:18 -!- ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:44 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 19:11:10 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF970EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:56 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:12 ASau [~user@p4FF970EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-142-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:16:09 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:38 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:26:19 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 19:26:30 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 19:28:41 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:29:00 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:29:34 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:13 stackoverflow is the worst place to go for any advice 19:30:56 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:06 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:12 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:32:00 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:10 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:43 _veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:43 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:32:43 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:34:01 cory786 [~cory@PAT96.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 -!- faust45 [~faust45@132-112-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: faust45] 19:37:01 sdemarre [~serge@247.125-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:37:10 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:38:55 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:34 Are you posting there now? 19:40:42 fsvehla [~fsvehla@178.115.250.200.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:38 Lisp linter? 19:42:56 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:28 Haven't seen one used in practice. 19:44:51 ok, no worries 19:45:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-87.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:49 AeroNotix: there's a program called lisp-critic that does some interesting annotations 19:46:00 it took some doing to get it to run last I checked 19:46:06 blegh 19:46:18 I just want like... ./program file.lisp 19:46:24 or ./program directory/ 19:46:33 and it'll tell me how stupid I am 19:48:09 <_schulte_> AeroNotix: I generally just compile files for that and the compiler does a pretty good job of telling me what I've done wrong 19:48:32 _schulte_: sure, there are sometimes things which a compiler misses/doesn't care about 19:48:32 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:38 style issues, for example 19:48:49 better ways to express something 19:50:27 AeroNotix: there's not that much difference with (program "file.lisp") 19:50:47 AeroNotix: You can always solicit human feedback 19:51:00 Xach: I can but I feel like I've definitely taken up a lot of people's time in here this week 19:51:44 it's freely given 19:51:50 unless you don't get an answer, of course 19:52:08 well, ok. I'll push my todo commit and show you all some code. 19:52:48 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:11 <_schulte_> I've seen style guide this before, although I haven't really read it (maybe I should) http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml 19:53:29 Google uses CL? 19:54:18 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:19 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@178.115.250.200.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 19:54:29 They acquired a company that used CL (ITA Software) 19:54:32 josemanuel [~josemanue@103.201.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:54:40 so they basically have to 19:55:02 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 19:55:37 I see 19:56:01 faust45 [~faust45@132-112-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:05 -!- faust45 [~faust45@132-112-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:38 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:57:43 they don't have to, that's why they bought ita software, to write it for them 19:57:55 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:58:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-87.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:58:56 it powers google flights now 19:59:02 (which is pretty cool if you haven't seen it) 19:59:12 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:26 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:38 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:59:49 Sorry, flights from Your Country are not currently supported. 20:00:09 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:10 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.173.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:35 :/ 20:01:40 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:02:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:12 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:21 any critique welcome: https://github.com/AeroNotix/cl-stack/blob/master/objectstore.lisp 20:06:42 AeroNotix: are you a OpenStack dev? 20:06:47 j_king: nope 20:06:50 I just work with it a lot 20:06:54 *j_king* nods. 20:07:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:07:08 I've implemented bindings in Erlang and Go 20:07:15 I'm sorry. ;) 20:07:19 Why? 20:07:35 They're not CL! ;) 20:07:40 *j_king* is just joking around. 20:07:42 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:07:46 j_king: this is why I am now doing them in CL :D 20:08:06 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:08 AeroNotix: what's with (ql:quickload :drakma)? 20:08:32 stassats: I need that don't I? 20:08:37 ;; TODO: Find a implementation agnostic MD5 library. => there's md5 20:08:39 nipra [~nipra@122.177.173.186] has joined #lisp 20:08:41 AeroNotix: no 20:08:43 stassats: in the stdlib? 20:08:50 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.173.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:52 what is stdlib? 20:08:56 standard library 20:09:04 there's no standard library 20:09:20 in the standard common lisp standard hyperspec standard 20:09:23 standard 20:09:35 no, why would it have things like md5? 20:09:44 I dunno, why does it have things like opening files? 20:09:53 <_schulte_> AeroNotix: (ql:system-apropos "md5") 20:09:57 why is your analogy broken? 20:10:04 _schulte_: already there, but thanks :) 20:10:19 Why do you have (ql:quickload ..) when you already have it in your asdf? 20:10:22 <_schulte_> AeroNotix: one style point I'd make, is you probably don't want to use ql:quickload in your source file, instead I'd write a .asd file for your package 20:10:30 francogrex [~user@109.128.103.15] has joined #lisp 20:10:32 Shinmera: honestly - I thought it was required. 20:10:33 <_schulte_> what Shinmera said :) 20:10:39 AeroNotix: your special variables are freezing without ear-muffs 20:10:42 elegance of ccl: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138591 20:11:00 francogrex: i see no elegance here 20:11:01 stassats: there's a todo on there. I want to make them user configurable. But earmuffs will go on :) 20:11:25 with all the assembly! 20:11:44 francogrex: sbcl VOPs are much more elegant 20:11:54 also 20:12:10 I've become also rather good at writing VOPs 20:12:23 when needed 20:12:25 AeroNotix: i find it putting ** to be less work than writing a todo 20:12:36 stassats: ahhh now I remember why I didn't use that md5 library. The docs seem to be afk 20:12:54 docs? what's that? 20:13:31 stassats: the thing that helps noobs 20:13:45 noobs? never heard of them 20:14:28 although at&t assembly syntax gives me a nausea 20:14:43 stassats: exhibit a 20:14:51 francogrex: me too. 20:15:42 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:48 well whaddya know, I don't need the ql:quickloads in the source files. TIL, thanks for that. 20:16:00 I think I had those in there before I set up the asd file. 20:16:07 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: and buff he was gone!] 20:17:18 ghast [~user@host133.190-138-28.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:18:08 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:38 <_schulte_> AeroNotix: maybe use concatenate instead of format in lines 52 and 65 20:18:53 ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:09 good idea 20:19:21 mrSpec [~Spec@LVelizy-156-46-58-26.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:19:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@LVelizy-156-46-58-26.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Changing host] 20:19:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 <_schulte_> also, I wouldn't use let* as much e.g., (let* ((a (foo)) (b (bar a)) (c (baz b))) c) could just be (baz (bar (foo)), but that might be personal preference 20:20:03 zacharias_ [~zacharias@f053087086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:07 -!- ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:20:09 -!- zacharias_ [~zacharias@f053087086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Changing host] 20:20:09 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:20:23 _schulte_: at the moment I find that clearer using the let* but I imagine that's my inexperience coming through 20:20:24 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:20:26 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 20:21:32 and cl-stack is a weird name 20:21:53 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 stassats: how so/ 20:22:02 ? 20:22:12 I don't care for the name myself, it's becoming a bear to type ;) 20:22:19 it doesn't have anything to do with a stack data structure 20:22:52 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:15 No :) 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timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:35 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-eaurehfexxyvqpsy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:18:08 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:19:43 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:09 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:23:29 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:35 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 21:27:42 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:53 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:29:20 Jaynes [~Haskell@65.217.157.106] has joined #lisp 21:30:25 yacks [~py@103.6.158.106] has joined #lisp 21:34:04 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-183-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:34:21 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:41:51 Posterdati [~antani@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:48:36 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:12 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:52:16 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:24 bitonic` [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:34 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 Posted this late last night but I think everyone was busy so posting it again. I'm hoping to get as much feedback ads possible for my bowling kata. http://ideone.com/QFCxps 21:53:19 -!- bitonic [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:53:32 Ads = as 21:56:46 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:06 seangrov` [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 21:58:13 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:07:33 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:08:42 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:09:15 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:35 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:44 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-183-116.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:40 -!- wws-ubuntu [wws@clozure-D8D53F0C.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:11:46 -!- wws-ubuntu [~wws@p-68-237-141-149.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:16:24 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #lisp 22:17:35 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:44 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:18:14 it's late night now too 22:18:27 -!- seangrov` [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:05 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:20:19 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:30 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:24:00 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:25:14 Dang, sorry :( I posted last night at like 10-11pm est in the us. Figured I would have better luck earlier in the day. What time zone is the average in #lisp? 22:25:43 many people are in europe 22:26:12 Okay, will keep that mind. Thank you. 22:26:35 but anyway, there's no glaring problems with the code 22:28:11 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:16 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 22:28:28 Great, thanks. It's my first real-ish code in Common Lisp (besides simple 5 liner exercises). 22:29:15 (apply '+ frame) can be problematic 22:29:18 clhs call-arguments-limit 22:29:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm 22:29:40 Ya I figured it was 12 frames probably max 22:30:24 Was originally a reduce call. Which is more appropriate? 22:31:05 reduce is immune to such limits, uses less stack space 22:31:31 Okay cool, I can switch it back to reduce. Thanks. 22:31:53 you can define sum-list 22:32:22 I thought somehow the apply would use less as its just 1 call to #'+ vs lots through a reduce. 22:34:51 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:34:51 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-183-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:52 namtsui` [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:53 nightshade427: wouldn't call that code pretty.. also, don't use EQ to compare numbers 22:36:36 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:36:50 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:01 Use "="? 22:37:09 Or "eql" 22:37:38 nightshade427: `=' is good 22:37:39 + has to do what reduce does anyway 22:37:52 the + operation is define only for two numbers 22:37:54 defined 22:38:01 stassats: I see, ok. Thanks 22:43:16 -!- bitonic` [~user@cpe-74-73-104-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:45:37 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 22:51:39 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 22:52:12 http://ideone.com/xv1PwI 22:52:13 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:24 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 22:52:33 adeht: Anything you could recommend to make it pretty code? 22:53:13 nightshade427: http://programmingpraxis.com/2009/08/11/uncle-bobs-bowling-game-kata/ 22:53:53 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.158.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:20 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:01:44 Humm .. I see more simplistic ones that just use pure math and no concepts from bowling domain (based on comments most of them fail certain cases as well). Those the ones your referring to? 23:02:04 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:02:27 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:03:45 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-225-36-122.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:13 *nightshade427* wants pretty code too 23:07:09 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:30 sometimes direct mapping of concepts is overkill 23:08:15 Indeed ;) 23:08:48 this is a too toyish problem for demonstrating good code 23:08:56 in any case, your code uses SUBSEQ and PUSH.. which is why, in the context of this problem, it seems ugly to me 23:09:03 I was practicing in the context of mapping concepts. This is precursor practice to writing distributes video transcoding platform in cl. 23:09:20 Distributes = distributed 23:09:43 *adeht* goes to sleep now, ciao 23:09:54 I see, is there a clearer way than subseq and push? 23:12:10 (setf current-frame) and push on it look strange 23:12:17 what does it do? 23:13:01 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-253-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:14 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:21 ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.92] has joined #lisp 23:15:41 The setf expander thing is for add-pin method. It adds a pin to the front of current frame. If game currently looks like ((1) (2 3)). And you call add-pin with 4, the game will look like ((4 1) (2 3)). 23:16:15 it's called a setf-function, not expander 23:16:27 Ok, thanks. 23:16:36 but it doesn't modify anything 23:17:00 yacks [~py@103.6.158.106] has joined #lisp 23:17:03 so, i'm not sure what's going on 23:17:17 What doesn't modify anything? 23:17:26 (setf current-frame) 23:18:39 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@static-ptld-mse-71-161-104-194.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:13 setf usually implies some side-effects 23:19:47 Pushing a pin into the current frame inside add-pin errors without setf-function. The setf-function takes the value push sent it from add-pin an conses it to the game. 23:20:35 Ahh, I see. Is there a clear way to do that? 23:20:37 yes, i know what's going on, but it's very contorted 23:20:44 too much abstraction 23:21:19 (list (cons pin (car game)) (cdr game)) would be much easier to understand 23:21:26 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:46 Im bowling, you add the pins you knocked down to the current frame (push pin (current-frame game))). I just thought it read nicer (too much sicp I suppose) 23:23:58 Like you said "too much abstraction" 23:24:02 :( 23:24:26 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZ] 23:24:27 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.121.255] has joined #lisp 23:24:36 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:48 especially when it's not idiomatic 23:25:01 push and setf are used normally for their side-effects 23:25:02 does sicp even have push 23:26:07 I meant the meaning that is constantly stated in sicp, code what you want the code to say (wishful thinking coding) then make it happen 23:26:41 (list (cons pin (car game)) (cdr game)) .. To me doesn't say to me "you add the pins you knocked down to the current frame of the game" 23:26:53 I could do that and add a comment? 23:26:55 (defun extend-game (pin game) (list (cons pin (car game)) (cdr game))) 23:27:40 nightshade427: it took me a moment to understand what that push does 23:28:01 stassats: That makes sense. 23:29:17 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:25 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 Okay let me see if I can keep flow of language and not use non-idiomatic code. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it. 23:34:18 paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:36:28 Okay I got it 23:36:57 (cons (cons (current-frame game)) game) 23:37:04 That any better? 23:37:22 wouldn't that be (cdr (game))? 23:38:06 (cons (cons pin (current-frame game)) game) .. Forgot the pin ;) 23:39:05 bitonic` [~user@cpe-68-173-125-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:49 autom8tr [autom8r@192.94.73.30] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 Indeed ;) 23:42:09 is `current-frame' just `car' ? 23:42:28 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:31 Yep 23:43:50 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:54 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:46:34 But I could change underlying representation so don't want to force other methods to know that, right? 23:46:36 so it seems perhaps strange to mix `current-frame' and `cdr', rather than either use `car' and `cdr'; or use `current-frame' and some new name for `cdr' (`outer-frames' ?); or perhaps some altogether other alternative 23:47:55 ski: Ya it does seem weird to mix it. 23:48:58 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:58 (one such other version would be to make `(on-current-frame game procedure)' compute `(cons (procedure (car game)) (cdr game))') 23:51:59 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp