00:00:03 is it special forms? 00:00:06 special operators? 00:00:20 depending on what you mean by "can't implement" 00:01:58 shaungilchrist [~chatzilla@c-67-182-222-192.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:19 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.57.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:19 bike: I'm trying to write a little dsl, and I would like to write as much of the dsl as possible in the dsl, so I figured I would look at the special operators in lisp/scheme as a starting point for what I'll need to implement not in the dsl 00:07:02 ltbarcly__: a lot of CL's semantics aren't in the special operators, for example, the cons function 00:09:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 00:09:27 rest [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:09 namtsui` [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:12 -!- namtsui [~user@76.21.121.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:31 Bike: I don't follow, are you saying cons isn't a special operator, but it's also not implemented using special operators in the end? 00:10:43 or rather, can't be? 00:11:29 -!- rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:11:53 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:14 -!- resttime [~rest@99.135.190.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:46 well if it's "can be" all you "really" need is lambda. 00:16:44 I wonder if AutoLisp is worth learning. I'd imagine they've swapped it out for something horrible by now. 00:17:03 do you particularly need to use autocad? 00:17:19 I enjoy AutoCAD for recreational drafting. 00:17:29 But I'm not bound to it. 00:17:43 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:35 Ryan_Burnside: they tried 00:19:53 Guess the question is Java or C#? 00:19:58 VBA 00:20:02 Good havens. 00:20:08 *heavens 00:20:20 it's possibly driveable over DCOM, though, which allows to link anything in 00:20:35 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:42 That kind of devolution is like taking away a sports car and giving the programmer a peddle car. 00:21:41 but in general, unless you go into architecture or explicitly work with pre-computer style of drafting, a better choice for lisp-drive CAD might be interfacing with BRL-CAD. 00:22:35 Similar to how someone here worked on code to interface with ANSYS 00:22:35 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 00:22:59 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:11 I'll look into it. I'm still hoping that somebody makes an open source software that emulates the commandline interface of autocad. 00:23:16 And snap modes... 00:23:28 Ryan_Burnside: well, BRL-CAD in general is commandline, afaik 00:23:44 Cool, hopefully I can get it to work with a modern Linux computer. 00:23:48 however, AutoCAD's style of doing CAD is obsolescent, and I am not talking about commandline 00:24:04 Ryan_Burnside: BRL is still developed, now as open source 00:27:19 Oh cool, looks fairly powerful. 00:27:42 Ryan_Burnside: it was developed and used, iirc, for the M1 Abrams work, so ... :) 00:28:07 Bike: (defun cons (a d) (lambda (k) (funcall k a d))) : cons is perfectly in the special operator CL:FUNCTION. 00:28:19 yes, thank you i am aware 00:28:25 on the other end of the scale, there's OpenSCAD, which is kinda like POV-Ray but for solid form CAD 00:28:42 now write consp, i guess 00:29:05 (don't actually do that) 00:29:13 Bike: it's trivial to implement a type system over lambda calculus. 00:29:25 I've already demonstrated it several times. 00:29:29 'trivial', yes 00:29:56 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:07 Really, it's not hard at all. 00:30:34 Just box the values in a (cons type value) instead of just value. 00:31:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:32:31 Bike: I'm trying to create a dsl that is as trivial as possible to implement in whatever host language, any advice? 00:32:53 i don't think that's a very sensible criterion 00:33:19 Bike: well, it is in context, the language is a dsl to use as a target for parser generators 00:33:43 so by hypothesis, you don't have good parsing tools available in the host language you are going to implement this dsl in 00:34:19 you have to establish some kind of criteria for host languages you care about. like say, has indexable strings. 00:35:33 Bike: agree 00:35:55 otherwise pjb will tell you how to write a parser generator in SKI combinator calculus. 00:35:57 I'm mostly interested in languages like python, ruby, java, emacs lisp, scheme, C, CL, and so on 00:36:30 well, you can generate the parser in anything you like, the goal of the dsl is to allow that parser to be shared 00:36:33 maybe you'd be better off writing a few parsers for tiny languages, and seeing what common elements they have. 00:36:44 and then you can say, oh, i'm going to need loops, or whatever. 00:36:54 bottom-up i guess. 00:37:33 Bike: right, I guess the motivation of my original question was, what set of primatives do I need to require host languages to implement that will let me do the rest of the work in the dsl itself 00:37:54 that way the host-language implementations only have to implement the symantics of the language and the primatives 00:38:06 semantics 00:38:18 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:19 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:39 i don't imagine that you'll need many compound operators 00:38:47 -!- rest [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rest] 00:39:07 right, I just vaguely remember reading that with some set of operators you can then build up to all of lisp 00:39:31 resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:34 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:39:49 it depends on what you mean. as pjb is happy to demonstrate, lambda is enough to do anything, since lambda calculus is turing-complete. this isn't that helpful for programming but it is certainly true. 00:39:50 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.170.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:27 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.187] has joined #lisp 00:48:31 Bike: so long as I can build higher level constructs from there, it's probably good enough 00:51:18 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:26 uh, good luck with that. 00:52:41 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:48 yea, after reading about it I see that I was being retarded 00:53:15 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:16 i mean, you can make a turing machine equivalent out of rocks, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that it will interoperate with Java 00:53:25 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 00:54:01 so, my suggestion is to see what operators a parser needs, and basically have that be your dsl 00:57:04 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:14 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:52 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:06 -!- Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-69-204.hlna.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:18 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@ip-64-134-226-158.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 01:07:46 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@ip-64-134-226-158.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:47 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@ip-64-134-226-158.public.wayport.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:42 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:16 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:15:31 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:40 -!- ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:48 anyone up for code critique? 01:16:06 ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:10 https://github.com/AeroNotix/algostructure/blob/master/Common%20Lisp/prefixtrie.lisp 01:16:16 it's a prefix trie for strings 01:16:27 Algostructure is like my test-bed for new languages 01:16:33 (new to me, at least) 01:18:07 defgenerics are nice to have 01:19:00 you could do (loop for subn in (nodes n) for loop-index from 0 ...) 01:19:52 AeroNotix: NPREFIX and SPREFIX are opaque names. With the docstring of NPREFIX I would have expected (nprefix "foo" "foo") to return 3, not NIL. 01:20:12 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:18 i'm not sure why you're tracking n anyway, isn't (nth loop-index (nodes n)) just subn? 01:20:45 Xach: yeah I don't like that and originally I had my own implementation of the prefix finder which did return the value - but then I found mismatch 01:20:47 oh, i think i've misunderstood. 01:21:24 Bike: to be honest- I thought subn would be a copy of the item, and then I setf the nth element (which subn is a copy of) 01:21:32 to be honest I didn't test if it was a copy or not 01:22:15 oh, i see. there's no copy but you have a point. 01:22:29 ok 01:22:35 so I do need to do it like that? 01:22:48 since (setf subn ...) would just change the local variable subn, but you want to change (nodes n) 01:22:55 Yeah that's what I was thinking 01:23:11 I did assume, however, most languages do it like that 01:23:50 barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:24:00 you could be a little more efficient by doing (loop for nodes on #|not in!#| (nodes n) do (let ((subn (car nodes))) ...)) and then just (setf (car nodes) ...) 01:24:31 what on Earth is #|not in!#| 01:24:33 ? 01:24:38 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 01:24:47 is that valid syntax? 01:24:54 a comment, though i messed it up a bit 01:24:55 clhs #| 01:24:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhs.htm 01:25:06 like /* */ 01:25:07 wow 01:25:11 good to know 01:26:42 anyway the point being, in (loop for x on (list 1 2 3) ...) x is successively bound to (1 2 3), (2 3), (3), so you can alter the list as you go 01:27:36 I see 01:27:41 I'll implement that tomorrow 01:27:44 it's 3.30am 01:27:46 :) 01:28:06 the repo is this: https://github.com/AeroNotix/algostructure 01:28:19 I just have a bit of fun implementing datastructures/algorithms 01:30:42 akbiggs [~akbiggs@24-212-225-66.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:02 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@218.22.21.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:28 -!- shaungilchrist [~chatzilla@c-67-182-222-192.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:14 night all 01:35:51 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:10 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-thkkihwtvgnlbkyr] has joined #lisp 01:36:31 -!- barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:00 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:20 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboa175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:42:41 joneshf-work_ [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:49 shaungilchrist [~chatzilla@c-67-182-222-192.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:00 -!- joneshf-work_ [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-192-154-180-58.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 01:54:54 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:20 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 01:57:58 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 01:58:27 I am troubleshooting my copy of SLIME -- would someone please try entering a WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING form and let me know if it indents properly? Thanks! 02:00:32 MouseTheLuckyDog [~mouse@adsl-76-193-161-115.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:04 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@24-212-225-66.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:01:05 silly question: how is it supposed to format? 02:02:02 Baker's META parser seemed to be "the way to go" in the past in lisp. Has it been translated to either haskell or scala? I was wondering how it compares to parser combinators. 02:03:16 nialo: Like other WITH- constructs -- the binding form should either be on the same line or indented as an argument, the forms should be indented as an &body -- i.e., not as deeply as arguments. 02:03:49 (with-output-to-string (x) 02:03:50 (format x "foo")) 02:03:59 Heh. Can't see that here, but it was righ tin my slime 02:04:04 billstclair: yes, that's what I expected. 02:04:14 somehow my SLIME is borked. 02:04:31 I'll pull an update and see if that fixes it. Thanks for the help. 02:04:39 I appears to be running 2013-05-26 02:08:00 ugh. LABELS is not being indented right, either. I am morally certain that SLIME is right and somehow I have broken it. 02:09:05 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:11:47 Emacs indentation is a black art 02:12:05 rpg: what happens to you then? 02:12:51 loke: I'm getting naive s-expression indentation. All the subforms of a form are indented to the same argument level, even special forms like WITH-OUPUT-TO-STRING and LABELS. 02:13:14 is this in the REPL buffer? 02:13:17 or in a lisp file? 02:14:04 Is the buffer in Lisp mode? 02:14:23 loke: lisp file. And I *am* loading slime-indentation (or my slime config failed somehow). 02:14:27 yes, lisp mode. 02:16:31 rpg: you sure it's not Emacs Lisp mode? 02:16:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:55 loke: that seems like that was it. 02:17:02 thanks. Wonder how that happened. 02:17:05 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:25 wait, no -- that can't be right -- I was getting the slime-mode-map bindings there. 02:17:37 But when I did M-x common-lisp-mode, the indentation started working. 02:19:08 loke_: it wasn't Emacs-lisp mode (which displays as such), but it seems like it was some more primitive lisp mode. Like a lisp mode that didn't know it was CL. 02:20:14 Actually in Slime, the indentation is more clever than that. It actually looks at the running image to figure out how things are to be indented. I.e. it doesn't have magical knowledge of forms, instead it looks at the function signature to figure it out 02:20:21 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:23 loke_: I thought slime was using the CL indent patches which have hard-coded patterns for particular forms. 02:21:35 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:53 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:18 see contrib/slime-cl-indent.el 02:22:33 looks like magical knowledge is contained there. 02:23:08 rpg: No. You can see that by defining a macro like so: (defmacro foo (x &rest y) ...) and check the indentation fo the FOO form 02:23:51 then redefine it as (defmacro foo (x &body y) ...) and see that the indentation changes 02:24:05 loke, yes, but look at the definition of common-lisp-init-standard-indentation 02:24:17 tiglog [~topeak@61.149.229.242] has joined #lisp 02:24:19 rpg: I'm sure there is a base set that it uses 02:24:24 I guess that's because the definitions for the CL functions aren't there... 02:24:29 loke: yes... 02:24:48 rpg: oh they are, but some of them needs specialised treatment 02:25:00 loke: that's very slick. a huge improvement over the old cl-indent. 02:25:12 [notoriously package-insensitive] 02:25:47 akbiggs [~akbiggs@24-212-225-66.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:47 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-37-151.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:33:58 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-37-151.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 02:33:59 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 02:35:43 still wish I could figure out how I got a damaged lisp mode.... :-/ 02:38:52 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-154-25.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:43:15 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-203-225.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:43:43 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 02:48:24 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[~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:42:46 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:14 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.160] has joined #lisp 04:52:06 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:19 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:57 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:55 ed_g [~quassel@75-164-245-169.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:24 I cant get to the drakma mailing list page at the moment, so I just want to check my logic with some one 04:56:47 drakma is giving me this syntax-error "Got Content-Length header although input chunking is on." that refers to RFC 2616, section 4.4 04:57:40 but that says content-length should just be ignored when chunking is on 04:58:14 i see that hunchentoot just logs an error in this case 04:59:18 so I have changed my local copy of drakma to ingnore content-length when chunking is on and it seems to be working fine, just not sure that I broke something else now 05:00:57 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 05:02:24 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-thkkihwtvgnlbkyr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:02:59 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:04:50 <|3b|> yeah, sounds like it should ignore it, also sounds like the server is broken (assuming this is about stuff coming from the server) 05:05:21 I get these from facebook and twitter api calls 05:05:59 but then I get a lot of weird nonsense from those api's 05:08:10 if my logic is right then hunchentoot is also not doing it right it uses the content length and just logs the error, I will try to get onto the mailing lists again later on and report it 05:10:59 lufu [~user@5.254.129.141] has joined #lisp 05:12:35 -!- redscare 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#lisp 06:15:25 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16:57 <|3b|> madnificent: sexml warnings about .args-tail. on sbcl seem to be due to macroexpand-dammit being broken (it expands LET* to nested LET, but doesn't chop up DECLARES to put the pieces in the right LET) 06:17:51 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:23 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:23:02 yacks [~py@103.6.159.100] has joined #lisp 06:24:40 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:25:47 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 06:25:47 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 06:25:47 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:26:10 ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:30:09 bitonic [~user@ppp-195-186.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 06:30:57 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:31:04 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:09 -!- robot-be` is now known as robot-beethoven 06:39:29 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 06:39:30 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 06:42:27 aoeu [~miguelroc@modemcable129.15-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:44:59 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-160-72.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:06 I would like to know why I should use/learn Lisp. Any evangelist here? 06:45:27 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-160-72.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:36 <|3b|> not really, too many people ask that question, so we get tired of answering it :/ 06:45:52 Fair enough. 06:46:09 Would being more specific increase my chances? 06:46:14 <|3b|> possibly 06:46:22 nilsi_ [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has joined #lisp 06:46:29 I'm interested in RDF, linked data, graph db. 06:46:35 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:46:49 I really like the concept of declarative, functional and logic programming. 06:47:09 I'm looking for a good language, in which there's no real distinction between data and code. 06:47:25 I don't believe that code (rules) and data should be expressed in two different languages. 06:47:38 <|3b|> this channel is about common lisp, which doesn't really focus on those sorts of things, but it is fairly flexible, so you can use lots of programming styles in it 06:47:57 How does Common compares to Scheme? 06:48:14 <|3b|> they are different languages 06:48:24 Like Scala and Java? 06:48:31 mcox [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 06:48:32 Do they simply run on the same platform? 06:48:36 What do they have in common? 06:48:46 <|3b|> scheme tends more towards 'functional' than CL does 06:49:01 Isn't "functional" a good thing? 06:49:26 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:49:29 *|3b|* would probably say more like c# and java, they look similar and maybe have some common ancestors, but that's about it 06:49:49 <|3b|> neither CL or scheme specifies anything about the platform 06:50:09 <|3b|> 'functional' is like any other programming tool, good for some things, annoying for others 06:50:34 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 06:50:48 <|3b|> and it depends on the specific language too, since it might be better for more things if the language abstracts it well and has good support for it 06:51:09 Someone asked me what the 'n' in nreverse/nconc/nintersection stands for. I know what it implies, but I don't know what it stands for. Does anyone know? 06:51:10 <|3b|> for example 'functional' in haskell is probably a lot better than 'functional' in c 06:51:25 <|3b|> mcox: 'non-consing' maybe? 06:51:30 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:45 mpstyler [5e64ed82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.130] has joined #lisp 06:52:47 -!- sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:53:26 |3b|: Huh. Maybe! Cool. Cheers. 06:53:40 <|3b|> CL and scheme are both derived from the original 'lisp' dialects in the 60s, so look sort of similar, and share a bunch of functions with odd names like CAR and CDR, but once you get much beyond that they start to differ quite a bit more 06:55:25 Thanks 06:56:39 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.147] has left #lisp 06:56:40 <|3b|> scheme has more of a history of "small core" and educational/research use, so implementations have more divergent features beyond the core, while CL's history is more about merging various older dialects and practical use with a larger common core 06:56:59 <|3b|> and there are a number of portability libs for major CL features beyond the core 06:57:18 *|3b|* doesn't use scheme, so can't really say how hard it is to write code for multiple implementations there 06:57:18 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:02 Why would I pick Scheme over Haskell? 06:58:17 Probably not the right channel for that question 06:59:01 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-wqhzdoctehucbgpq] has joined #lisp 06:59:20 There's never a right channel. 06:59:23 *|3b|* would pick one of those if i wanted to focus on learning/practicing 'functional' style programming 06:59:38 *|3b|* would pick CL for actual programming though 06:59:46 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:12 <|3b|> channel specific to the language (like #scheme) is more 'right' for questions about that language than channels about other languages :) 07:03:25 <|3b|> oops, misread that as 'why pick scheme or haskell'... i'd pick scheme over haskell due to it being more similar to CL 07:05:28 But what's so great about CL? Why don't all the cool kids use it? 07:05:54 <|3b|> not everyone picks based on quality, and many people dislike the syntax 07:06:37 <|3b|> and a lot of people pick based on things like being hard to misuse rather than being easy to do complicated things with 07:07:20 and let's not forget the flashy IDEs with lots of clickable stuff 07:07:21 <|3b|> also many people get a bad impression of it from college classes that just teach a limited subset as if it were all there was 07:07:43 "not everyone picks based on quality" what? It doesn't make any sense. 07:08:12 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 07:08:16 aoeu: cl is big, old, sophisticated, baroque. some people prefer small, new, simple and with rounded corners. 07:08:42 <|3b|> would you rather use a great language, or a horrible language where there was a perfect library for your current task? (that would takes years to implement yourself in the 'great' language) 07:09:10 <|3b|> would you rather use a 'great' language, or one where you can easily hire hundreds of programmers when your startup gets funded? 07:09:52 <|3b|> would you rather use a 'great' language, or the one your manager says 'use it or get fired' because some vendor took him to a fancy convention? 07:10:15 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:26 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 07:10:33 <|3b|> or 'great' vs 'industry standard so you won't get fired for picking something strange when the project has problems' 07:10:58 imo there is no great language, just learn algorithms and data structures 07:11:13 #lispcafe 07:11:55 I don't care about what other people code in. 07:12:00 I don't care about libraries. 07:12:14 I don't care about what's "in" and what's "out". 07:12:41 aoeu: do you want to tell us more about you or are you done? 07:12:56 <|3b|> well, that cuts out a lot of the reasons to not use CL 07:13:02 All I care about is a no compromise, elegant, and consistent language. 07:13:03 <|3b|> minion: tell aoeu about pcl 07:13:03 aoeu: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 07:13:17 <|3b|> so take a look at ^ and get started learning cl :) 07:13:45 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:13:46 |3b|, thanks. 07:13:59 But I'm still not sure CL is consistent enough. 07:14:08 cl is not consistent. 07:14:12 Damn. 07:14:17 What language is consistent? 07:15:59 whitespace 07:16:27 n 07:17:31 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:30 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.195] has joined #lisp 07:19:41 What makse Common Lisp inconsistent 07:20:04 aoeu: just open a book on it and have a look. you'll see it in no time. 07:20:18 (((())))) all I can csee 07:21:13 Funny, original, etc 07:22:22 I read that in lisp code and data are the same. Is that true? 07:23:19 You lied. LISP is consistent. 07:23:24 <|3b|> CL provides runtime access to its compiler, which takes input in the form of lisp data rather than just text 07:23:42 CL is a hack. 07:23:45 Plain and simple. 07:23:49 <|3b|> (but even languages that take input in text form usually have a text data type) 07:23:51 Good job making friends 07:24:07 -!- gluegadget [~amir@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:07 <|3b|> CL is a bunch of hacks, compromises, etc 07:24:18 gluegadget [~amir@li346-83.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:24:19 -!- gluegadget [~amir@li346-83.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:24:19 gluegadget [~amir@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has joined #lisp 07:24:19 <|3b|> which is part of what makes it practical 07:24:31 Which is what made it expedient at the time. 07:24:44 <|3b|> you can program in pure lambda calculus if you want some thing pure and perfect 07:24:52 I don't want to have anything to do with the hack that is CL. 07:24:55 I'm leaving. 07:24:57 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:02 But a lot of the underlying economics have shifted, unfortunately the hacks are etched in stone. 07:25:04 <|3b|> yeah, 'made' is probably a better word, some of the hacks and compromises haven't aged well 07:25:20 They don't age. 07:25:25 Purity ages well. 07:25:26 aoeu: Well, off you go, then. 07:25:44 Purity is one of those terms of propaganda, like intuitive. 07:25:47 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:52 <|3b|> 'purity' doesn't help you support dozens of completely incompatible filesystem abstractions 07:26:46 Zhivago, it was nice meeting you. You too |3b|. Hope you both see the light. 07:26:53 <|3b|> which light? 07:27:02 I'm looking for it. 07:27:04 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:27:10 But it's not here. 07:27:31 Try under the next bushel. 07:27:55 <|3b|> CL is a local maximum under my selection criteria, but may not be for yours 07:28:06 <|3b|> (or it may be, but still not be good enough) 07:28:13 Maximum of cost? :) 07:28:35 I'm the next Steve Jobs. I want to change the world, not play games. 07:29:08 <|3b|> then programming language doesn't matter much :p 07:29:09 Bit full of yourself there 07:29:33 Yes it does. 07:29:38 <|3b|> find some tech person, and let them pick whatever tools they like 07:29:46 No no no. 07:29:53 The tools are what matter. 07:30:06 Wasn't Steve Jobs an arsehole who latched onto others' work and screamed at people a lot? 07:30:07 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:30:11 The UI is the language. 07:30:17 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:17 <|3b|> not for changing the world... for that, the results and the marketing matter 07:30:24 Zhivago, what do I sound like? 07:30:35 Well, now that you mention it ... 07:30:38 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:44 Fuck marketing. Marketing is for when you don't have a good product. 07:31:01 ... perhaps you might be the next Steve Jobs. 07:31:16 Zhivago, I most likely am. 07:31:27 You want to hear an interesting anectdote? 07:31:30 Well, have fun screaming at people. :) 07:31:45 You know what day I'm born? 07:31:58 A regretful one? 07:32:05 *|3b|* doesn't, unless it involves CL (people on #lispcafe might be interested in non-cl anecdotes) 07:32:07 The day Linux was first made public. 07:32:23 Wow, to honestly believe you're the "next" Steve Jobs? God save humanity. 07:32:24 <|3b|> (this channel is fairly strict about staying on-topic, which current discussion is starting to stray from) 07:32:25 The first release of Linux. 07:32:25 The exact same day. 07:32:25 Same date, same year. 07:32:46 I'm sure that Linus had your destiny in mind. 07:32:48 You know what happened 20 years later? 07:33:02 Let me know if you need a +q. :) 07:33:34 Steve Jobs died. 07:33:34 The day of the 20th anniversary of Linux. 07:33:34 Which happens to be the day of my 20th anniversary. 07:33:34 Coincidence? Not. 07:33:42 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-235-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:34 The stars are aligned. 07:34:34 Prepare for disruption. 07:34:34 It's coming. 07:34:34 (I also jump over chairs, just like Bill Gates) 07:34:35 I AM the trinity. 07:34:47 Zhivago: I guess now please. 07:34:49 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 07:34:57 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q aoeu!*@* 07:35:01 As you wish. 07:36:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:09 I wonder if there is a possibility that aoeu was a bot 07:40:48 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:40:59 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 07:41:21 aoeu_ [42820f81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.130.15.129] has joined #lisp 07:41:28 Turing test achieved. 07:41:33 -!- aoeu_ [42820f81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.130.15.129] has left #lisp 07:53:28 nilsi 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[~miguelroc@modemcable129.15-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:12:05 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 11:18:09 -!- markcox [~user@124-170-106-246.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:22:35 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:47 Batalyx [~ji@halava.cc.jyu.fi] has joined #lisp 11:34:59 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has left #lisp 11:36:35 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:07 hello 11:37:53 I can't load "elephant" through quicklisp, there is some dll missing 11:37:57 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:38:16 you need to install it separately 11:38:18 elephant needs a lot of pre-build configuration 11:38:27 hm 11:38:34 It only works out of the quicklisp box under very specific configurations 11:38:51 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:46 are there any alternatives? on the project page the latest post is from 2009, and i got happy when i saw there is a 2012.09.09 date in quicklisp 11:39:56 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 11:40:05 i thought it is not maintained anymore 11:40:16 but if i can't install it, then i must find something else 11:41:23 alternatives for what purpose? 11:41:31 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:41:33 I never used elephant so I'm not sure what it is used for, sorry 11:41:37 i'm looking for persistent object store database 11:42:17 ChangeSafe! (not really) 11:42:48 ASau` [~user@p4FF97D9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:03 i did a little search on google and found that there is elephant and rucksack. but both project pages are very old on common-lisp.net 11:43:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.248.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:43:26 there is rucksack-20120305-cvs in quicklisp 11:45:10 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:46:21 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96283.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:48:47 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:54 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 11:49:59 -!- mpstyler [5e64ed82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:50:20 Xach: It seems that libraries (http://quickdocs.org/lisp-zmq/api) that require CFFI Groveller have broken documentation in Quickdocs. 11:51:28 ffilozov: ouch! although i think quickdocs is cool, i am not directly associated with it. best to contact the maintainers of it directly. 11:52:15 yati [~yati@223.239.192.120] has joined #lisp 11:52:36 Xach: Ah, for some reason I thought you're involved. 11:53:14 maybe because of the "quick" prefix. 11:53:21 and the use of the same font... 11:53:26 but their design is much nicer 11:53:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:55:33 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@75-142-59-12.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:53 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:58 akbiggs [~akbiggs@24-212-225-66.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:51 hajovonta: there is xdb2, which is still under heavy development but the docs are non existent 12:00:31 it is however used in a couple of production environments 12:01:05 *Xach* wishes for README and :description 12:02:53 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-235-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:57 Harag: what is data-x-ware? 12:05:28 its my company 12:06:18 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:17 Xach: your wish has been granted 12:09:16 not that it says much, I am 1 hour away from going on leave for the first time in years so I don't have the energy to do more in the readme now. 12:10:02 ha 12:10:03 I need to add rest api in the next month still then I will work on the docs and stuff 12:10:38 or at least just a decent example 12:14:25 Thanks. 12:16:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:36 Harag: thanks for the info. I think I'll give it a try. 12:17:41 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:18:31 hajovonta: You are more than welcome to, but it might not be your cup of tea 12:18:42 why? 12:19:01 I get regular critisism that I made it to generic and changeable 12:19:19 which affects performance 12:19:26 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:40 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 12:19:49 performance is not a problem for me 12:19:53 Harag: do you get criticism about performace itself? 12:20:03 no 12:20:08 You can always hide a generic library behind a specific API :-) 12:20:23 just that if I comprimized on flexibility it could be faster 12:20:25 And invoice a lot when they ask for "extensions" :-) 12:20:31 I took a look at test.lisp and it seems to be usable 12:20:32 lol 12:20:39 Harag: not because of performance, but rather because of complexity 12:20:48 dsevilla [~user@77.211.90.255] has joined #lisp 12:21:14 stassats': the two go hand in hand ;P 12:21:40 with compile-time specialization it can be both flexible and fast 12:22:52 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 12:25:16 yeah well when we have some time to burn we can talk about it again... first we need to finish my current wish list ;) 12:25:32 and with unlimited budget 12:25:47 yeah the stuff dreams are made of 12:36:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-214.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:31 jerryzhou [~xiaotaota@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 12:38:20 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:28 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:38:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:38:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC9DF412.mobile.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 12:38:46 -!- attila_lendvai 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[~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:20 pnpuff [~Shafran@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:22:14 -!- pnpuff [~Shafran@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:23:21 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-157-86.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:45 in quicklisp, is there a way to delete old versions of libraries under quicklisp/dist/quicklisp/software ? 14:24:11 other than manually doing this i mean 14:24:48 sellout- [~Adium@71-218-14-63.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:08 yakov [~yakov@80.76.244.114] has joined #lisp 14:25:37 nicdev: ql-dist::(clean (dist "quicklisp")) 14:30:38 what about old fasls? 14:31:17 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 14:31:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:31:36 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 14:35:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:35:28 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:17 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 14:37:05 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister_ 14:37:18 -!- sellout- [~Adium@71-218-14-63.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:29 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:37:58 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:38:32 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:41:08 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:16 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:44:28 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:48 -!- drmeister_ [~drmeister@166.137.85.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:10 Not sure. 14:48:20 I usually kill ~/.cache/common-lisp 14:48:55 pnpuff [~BWV951@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:49:10 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-176-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:26 -!- pnpuff [~BWV951@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:51:50 harish [~harish@119.234.144.235] has joined #lisp 14:53:32 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-157-86.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:53:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:17 nilsi_ [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has joined #lisp 14:54:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:55:48 Xach: #'ql-dist::clean assumes that everything it finds is going to be a directory. Somehow, my cl-test-grid's quicklisp/dist/quicklisp/software/ directory had a temp file (with a SHA-hash looking name) stuck in it. #'clean choked executing "DELETE-DIRECTORY" on it. 14:56:33 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.144.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:57:25 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:55 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:10 Interesting! 14:59:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:02:28 -!- yakov [~yakov@80.76.244.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:09 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@218.22.21.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:19 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 lifeng [~lifeng@218.104.71.166] has joined #lisp 15:07:50 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:18 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 -!- bitonic 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16:58:21 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:59:33 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:28 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:02 -!- loke_erc [~user@2001:470:36:b4a:c42b:da5e:cfdd:410f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:30 aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:07:31 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:02 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3FD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10:05 bitonic [~user@151.27.186.195] has joined #lisp 17:10:53 milosn [~milosn@user-5af505dc.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:01 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:18:48 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.170.144] has joined #lisp 17:23:02 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-235-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:25:45 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:27 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:32 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:29:09 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:38 APane [~APane@CPE7cb21bc298cf-CM7cb21bc298cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:41 Hey 17:32:06 what are some tricks to gettin' new users to join your lisp website? 17:32:55 -!- APane [~APane@CPE7cb21bc298cf-CM7cb21bc298cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 17:33:36 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:42 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3FD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:59 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:35:24 I hypnotize them with animated GIFs and suggest that they want to program in a really nice language 17:35:42 dlowe: already gone. 17:35:56 I know. I figured I'd answer anyway. 17:37:49 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.170.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:37:49 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:16 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 Somelauw [~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw] has joined #lisp 17:43:35 segmond [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has joined #lisp 17:43:40 -!- CrazyEddy [~ozonic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:06 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:39 dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #lisp 17:46:52 davazp [~user@92.251.164.126.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 17:48:29 I think C syntax can look almost as nice as lisp when indented differently https://pastee.org/48gdx 17:49:04 I've thought about using C with sexps on a C project I have. 17:49:10 tolk``` [~user@host96.190-138-220.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:49:44 I use http://xach.com/misc/lambda.html for hypnosis 17:50:58 mpstyler [5e64ed82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.130] has joined #lisp 17:51:04 Xach: did you make that gif? 17:51:10 Yes. With Lisp. 17:51:15 niice. 17:53:17 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 17:53:41 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:54:19 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:24 specifically skippy and zpb-ttf 17:54:34 and vecto/vectometry 17:55:48 lufu [~user@5.254.129.141] has joined #lisp 17:55:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:57:48 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 17:58:38 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD3AE1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:02 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:59:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:46 CrazyEddy [~transform@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:01:52 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:01:55 -!- segmond [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:02:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3FD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:46 -!- tolk``` is now known as tolk 18:09:44 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:19:29 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:10 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:51 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:40 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:00 Aramur :) 18:38:14 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 18:39:40 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:41:12 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:41 -!- mpstyler [5e64ed82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:44 eheh 18:44:49 hydan [~user@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:44:56 -!- ft [efftee@oldshell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:44 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:50:19 ckoch786 [~cory@75.22.101.128] has joined #lisp 18:53:40 ft [efftee@oldshell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:57 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:55:04 segmond [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has joined #lisp 18:55:53 jangle [~jimmy1984@69.85.7.164] has joined #lisp 18:57:58 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-86-18.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:56 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@75.22.101.128] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:00:20 ckoch786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:20 igotnole_ [~igotnoleg@71-219-128-48.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:44 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3FD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:52 -!- shaungilchrist [~chatzilla@c-67-182-222-192.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:14 Somelauw: have a look at http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=public/clang-ast&h=28f8ae512795d4fc05dfd8fb996db97d70928ff2&hb=8c2a64a70b570e0797e2ccba40449f7797040284&f=ast.c 19:11:33 Actually, as soon as you define cons, car, cdr and null, C becomes much more bearable. 19:12:15 why not add all lisp constructs to C then? 19:12:31 Someone just has to write a complete lisp library for C 19:12:41 and then use lisp instead 19:12:53 Somelauw: sure. That's done so often, it has a name: it's called greenspunning. 19:12:55 -!- tolk [~user@host96.190-138-220.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:12:59 See ast.c above. 19:13:10 And the library is called libecl.so 19:13:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3FD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:37 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:17:43 Somelauw: see also: https://www.informatimago.com/articles/life-saver.html 19:21:43 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:27:10 -!- segmond [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:31:33 pjb: untrusted connection? 19:32:22 -!- yati [~yati@223.239.192.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:32:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:12 You have asked Firefox to connect 19:33:14 securely to www.informatimago.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure. 19:33:16 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 19:34:15 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:35 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:35:24 pjb: I think that code looks ugly 19:35:36 "You attempted to reach www.informatimago.com, but instead you actually reached a server identifying itself as voyager.informatimago.com." somehow i'm not worried. 19:35:56 to many ] }]] symbols 19:38:03 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:42 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.141] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:42:22 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:47:13 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has left #lisp 19:53:50 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:04 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:56:16 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.164.126.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:07 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:59:48 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:01:49 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:16 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:34 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:06:43 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 20:08:40 Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:09:28 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 20:15:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:18:29 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 20:23:44 -!- Luna__ [~Luna@ip-178-200-76-240.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:44 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:15 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:29:55 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:23 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-54-119.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:33:58 antgreen [~green@216.254.163.111] has joined #lisp 20:34:18 Is there some current documentation for RESTAS that matches the quicklisp state? restas:mount-submodule is still in docs/, but nowhere in src/ ... how should I mount a directory-publisher now? 20:34:43 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-13-20.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:54 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:56 hmmm, using restas:mount-module I get another error. grmpf. 20:37:37 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD3AE1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:55 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:57 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:42:17 -!- fourOfTwelve [~dented42@1667024149.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:34 http://lispwebtales.ppenev.com/chap09.html#modules-as-reusable-components-part-i-restas-directory-publisher 20:45:00 -!- Somelauw [~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw] has left #lisp 20:45:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 20:48:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:02 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:48 What's the easiest way to load RESTAS' slime/restas-swank.lisp? Do I have to PUSH the path to ASDF, and do ASDF manually, or can I use quicklisp for finding the system/asd file? 20:56:07 coreytrevor [~ma@78.129.153.58] has joined #lisp 20:57:22 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:40 Just passing the full pathname gives me "Absolute pathname designator not allowed" 21:02:25 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:03:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:05 jerryzhou [~xiaotaota@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 21:05:16 http://lispwebtales.ppenev.com/chap03.html#restas-project 21:05:23 Do those not work? 21:07:00 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 21:10:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:16 thanks, I'm struggling at a few points simultaneously. 21:12:36 -!- k3VB6u4d [k3VB6u4d@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-lizwyuufulslbzur] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:15:58 k3VB6u4d [k3VB6u4d@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-avowogowvzxmjwsd] has joined #lisp 21:17:48 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 21:20:35 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3FD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:49 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:30:57 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:48 beautiful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5CTFMuFvb0 21:31:55 makes me want to write a Demo in lisp 21:35:02 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@69.85.7.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:07 -!- resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: resttime] 21:38:27 resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:45:48 milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-129-189.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:48:00 -!- resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has 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