00:01:23 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:32 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 00:03:44 svs_ [~svs@206.104.135.62] has joined #lisp 00:04:55 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:25 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:40 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:52 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:39 -!- Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: zZz] 00:10:50 rowsdower [~andy@cpe-24-29-79-68.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:28 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 00:13:55 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@95-28-17-104.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:14:50 is implementing "A* search algorithm" in commong lisp hard ? will it be slow ? 00:15:23 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:35 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:16:36 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:53 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 00:17:00 No. 00:17:04 there's an implementation of A* in peter norvig's book paradigms of artificial intelligence 00:17:31 Xach: can someone write it for me ? 00:20:07 elkng: Yes, with some form of persuasion. 00:20:52 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:59 Xach: monetary form ? 00:22:34 Or charm. 00:23:34 you female ? 00:24:22 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 00:24:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:25:22 Go away. 00:25:43 move along 00:26:14 elkng: are you the next generation of elk? I thought that was going to be the yak 00:26:29 or are you the king of .el 00:26:36 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:55 ltbarcly_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inukami! watch it 00:27:56 jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:16 I choose not to 00:29:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:35 I'm putting you on ignore now, so I hope you have as nice of a life as is possible 00:31:25 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 00:33:27 squidz [~albert@HSI-KBW-046-005-002-113.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:34:37 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:42 that was very constructive to be here 00:34:45 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has left #lisp 00:36:15 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:08 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:37:30 -!- rowsdower [~andy@cpe-24-29-79-68.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:38:02 *Oladon* boggles 00:39:14 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:40:06 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40:28 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:50 carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:00 -!- svs_ [~svs@206.104.135.62] has quit [Quit: svs_] 00:49:20 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-34-38.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:52 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:52:54 jonlorusso [~jonloruss@ec2-54-245-131-146.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:30 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 00:53:46 -!- karatekid 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02:03:39 *nightfly* had been watching though that with friends, by chance 02:07:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:11:05 -!- djuber [~user@lambda.beta-reduction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:16 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:25:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-34-38.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:35 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-123-169.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29:28 igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-110-151.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:30 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:30:50 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 antgreen [~green@216.254.163.111] has joined #lisp 02:33:16 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-34-38.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:28 -!- tolk 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seconds] 03:04:35 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 03:04:54 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:06:16 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:07:08 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 03:07:28 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:00 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:20 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:08:38 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 03:11:40 tvaalen [~robin@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 03:12:51 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:41 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.143.226] has joined #lisp 03:13:41 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.143.226] has quit [Changing host] 03:13:41 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:14:11 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E3F92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:16:55 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:22:05 http://paste.lisp.org/+2YS6 03:22:23 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 03:22:30 I need to pass keywords into category-tag and value-tag, but they're reported as functions (I realize why). How do I fix that? 03:23:16 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:58 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:10 I can't think of a way to do that with cl-who offhand. It's much more geared for when you know the element structure but the content is variable. I don't think you can use a variable to specify the kind of element. 03:24:47 pranavrc: FYI, (string-downcase (string thing)) can be simplified to (string-downcase thing) 03:25:35 Right, thanks. I'm gonna have to use plain strings for tags then, I guess. 03:29:28 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0382.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:29:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:30:13 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:30:32 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:41 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 03:31:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:35:01 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:36:46 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 03:37:19 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 03:39:54 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:17 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.25.168] has joined #lisp 03:43:45 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:52 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:45:08 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 03:45:09 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 03:47:28 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:59 zhtx [~wice@124.89.80.65] has joined #lisp 03:48:37 Hi all! In Common Lisp, could I use something like (defmethod foo ((bar string))) without defmethod? 03:49:04 could you be more specific about what you mean? 03:49:29 type checking 03:50:16 I know 'the' could do that, but it seems uglier than the 'defmethod' way 03:50:23 That's not really type checking. You could define a function that only takes strings, if you want 03:50:27 the is also not type checking. 03:50:38 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:16 define a function that only takes strings? Then... How to do that? 03:51:32 Put (check-type arg 'string) at the beginning of your function 03:51:41 unquoted, rather, but yeah. 03:51:49 mm. yeah. 03:51:58 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:52:28 Thank you. I'll go for that :-) 03:52:43 Or you can do (defun foo (bar) (declare (type string bar)) ...) if you don't (necessarily) want actual checking. 03:52:49 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 03:53:13 yeah, that's a promise to the compiler, not a check 03:53:33 Ah, I see. 03:54:34 You should probably give up notions of static typing while you do lisp. The notion isn't really compatible with the late-binding strategy that nearly all lisps have gone with 03:55:41 Hmm.. Got it 03:56:04 well, you can have static types, it just doesn't work like in most "statically typed languages". 03:56:32 though some check-types at interface boundaries with nice error messages are usually better than Argument A is not a STRING at STRING= 03:58:49 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.131.50] has joined #lisp 04:07:54 Maybe you want typecase? 04:08:42 Is the problem checking or dispatching? 04:10:23 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 04:10:31 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:11:30 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:15:02 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:21 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:47 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 04:20:09 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined 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peer] 05:39:02 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 05:41:47 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:42:11 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:11 harish [~harish@124.197.76.193] has joined #lisp 05:44:53 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:45:41 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 05:46:05 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:05 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.131.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:12 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-015-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:03 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:23 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 05:58:40 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:58:59 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:59:45 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:00:23 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:07 -!- Daat418 [~user@c-67-180-90-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:19 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:05:36 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-150-124.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:09:54 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:02 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-jyjuzovpfnpacdzk] has joined #lisp 06:13:05 -!- harish [~harish@124.197.76.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:13:35 i want to generate a list of 10 random numbers between 1 and 99 with no duplicates 06:14:02 each way i try to do it seems kind of sloppy, could anyone suggest an elegant solution? 06:14:04 Partial shuffle. 06:15:04 Take an array containing the candidate numbers and then iterate over the first ten, replacing each with a random selection from the remainder of the array (including the current cell). 06:15:27 s/replacing/swapping/ 06:16:55 Zhivago: thank you, i don't understand, i think i need to read that a few times 06:17:18 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:17:36 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:17:48 take a sequence of (1, 2, 3, ... 99), shuffle it, take the first ten elements. is what zhivago's saying before the obvious optimization 06:18:05 See: Fisher-Yates Shuffle. :) 06:18:17 oh, at the end of this (first-ten-of (list-with-all-numbers)) is the return 06:18:19 <`26> Zhivago: my brain is somewhat tired, does your method actually achieve uniform distribution? 06:18:29 Yes. 06:18:41 Just make sure that the element can be swapped with itself. 06:19:14 so if the first slot, 1-99 becomes 51... the next one chooses an element from the cdr of the list. which doesn't include 51. 06:19:25 right. 06:20:24 You can actually do it more efficiently, now that I think about it, using the on-line random selection approach. 06:21:20 Iterate over your number set and then if the selection set is smaller than the limit, append the item. Otherwise make a random pick from the number of items seen so far (including this one) if the pick is less than the selection limit, replace that element of the selection with the current item. 06:24:37 The problem with the second approach is that you need one random number per item. 06:25:04 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:25:18 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.107] has joined #lisp 06:26:49 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:27:06 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:27:09 '..is smaller than the limit, append the item. .." is that to say append it to some null list that will be the results 06:27:09 <`26> I have a stupid question to ask; is there a general way to refer to a symbol in an arbitrary namespace (function, variable, etc.)? 06:27:31 er, use the symbol? 06:27:45 oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has joined #lisp 06:29:13 <`26> oh, never mind, I seem to just be confused about terminology, never mind. 06:29:45 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:03 bitonic [~user@aggm54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:32:44 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:54 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:34:03 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.134] has joined #lisp 06:41:41 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-015-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:47:38 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-bebwabalqzygqtth] has joined #lisp 06:58:44 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 06:59:12 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:59:34 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:00:54 Zhivago: if you're available i wonder if you could look at this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5965319/ and tell me whether i've done the partial shuffle correctly 07:01:07 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:03:56 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 07:03:59 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-233-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:56 nydel: have you tried it at the REPL? 07:08:12 poppingtonic: yes, i only added the form at the end as a demo. it seems to work, but i think i should trace it, feel like i'm doing something wrong 07:10:17 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:11:30 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:13:23 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:14:16 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:14:27 The random selection for the 5th item, for example, needs to be of the set [5, 6, 7, ..., 99]. 07:14:53 You seem to be selecting from the set of previously selected items as well. 07:14:58 ack 07:15:03 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 07:16:06 thank you, i'm not sure how i missed that 07:16:27 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:18 select from (subseq mylist i) so it's not grabbing the already-selected numbers. 07:19:19 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 07:19:23 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c219c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:15 xani [~user@178.183.145.236.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 07:22:06 ok i think this is sound http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5965370/ 07:23:29 You might also find that using a vector rather than a list is more efficient. 07:23:55 Or you might move to the single-pass N random item selection model that only requires iterating through the candidates once. 07:24:15 Then you don't need to do the list accesses. 07:24:46 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:24:47 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:26:56 ah yes, that'll be the way to do it right. 07:27:30 i've always gotta write it terribly first if i wanna get it right later :) thanks Zhivago 07:30:47 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:31:29 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:31:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-1.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:30 -!- JuanitoFatas [~Adium@114-34-7-32.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:35:55 lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:36:25 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:38:28 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:58 lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:41:01 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 07:41:50 morning 07:42:27 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 07:42:31 <`26> damn it it's morning already. 07:42:58 -!- xani [~user@178.183.145.236.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:44:36 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:47:22 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:50:06 <`26> right, so the special form "function" is used to access the function namespace 07:52:04 I would suggest that it is used to produce function objects. 07:52:42 And in this cse, it produces a function object from a symbol, by doing a lexical environment lookup. 07:53:18 xani [~user@178.183.159.191.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 07:53:26 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:55:51 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:56:39 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:30 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:58:00 <`26> Zhivago: is there a particular reason why 'function' is not a function (and is instead a special operator that takes directly a symbol instead of a quoted symbol as it would be with a function)? 07:58:18 Consider (function (lambda () 1)) 07:59:28 JuanitoFatas [~Adium@60.245.65.140] has joined #lisp 07:59:47 <`26> function is being fed a lambda expression and returns a lexical closure (from HyperSpec) 08:01:35 <`26> Zhivago: is there a particular reason why lambda doesn't just create a lexical closure? 08:02:25 Because lambda is a macro expanding to function. 08:03:16 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:03:29 <`26> Zhivago: so lambda 'defun's using an uninterned symbol and then returns that symbol? 08:03:32 Praise [~Fat@88-149-250-134.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:03:37 -!- Praise [~Fat@88-149-250-134.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Changing host] 08:03:38 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:03:50 -!- JuanitoFatas [~Adium@60.245.65.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:56 Rather function produces a function from a function name, which may be a lambda expression. 08:03:58 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:01 <`26> I am not asking how things are (because they are beautifully described in the HyperSpec), I am asking *why* they are the way they are. 08:05:13 JuanitoFatas [~Adium@60.245.65.140] has joined #lisp 08:06:04 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:06:06 Well, you need a primitive -- you might have chosen lambda. 08:06:26 I suspect that it is because historically #'(lambda ...) produced a lexical closure, but (lambda ...) did not. 08:07:08 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 08:08:21 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:09:08 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 08:09:26 -!- JuanitoFatas [~Adium@60.245.65.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:44 veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:07 -!- veer is now known as Guest46912 08:10:58 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:33 -!- Guest46912 [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:14:56 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:15:48 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:16:09 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:17:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:18:07 -!- bitonic [~user@aggm54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:19:39 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:20:04 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Client Quit] 08:20:21 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:21:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-175.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:28:46 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:29:03 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:29:26 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 08:30:23 zhtx [~wice@124.89.80.65] has joined #lisp 08:31:07 lurch__ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:31:10 Hi all. Why can't Lisp eval a variable in 'case/ecase'? 08:32:04 Or, how can I work around? 08:32:41 add^_ [~user@m5-241-134-103.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:32:59 Given (defconstant a 100), (case 100 (a 1)) will return NIL instead of expected 1. But why? 08:33:02 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:02 -!- lurch__ is now known as lurch_ 08:34:08 <`26> I think the "a" is implicitly quoted 08:34:34 Any workarounds? 08:34:39 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_cond.htm 08:34:44 Use cond instead 08:35:30 hmm.. seems no more way.. thank you all. 08:36:49 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:37:40 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41:30 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 08:42:35 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 08:43:07 with appropriate eval-when's, (case 100 (#.a 1)) 08:43:09 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:18 Cool! #. does the magic! 08:44:36 Thank you. 08:47:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:48:33 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:50:16 cond remains the clearer solution :) 08:51:52 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 08:56:33 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:57:26 arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:58:40 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:59:43 -!- rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:00:22 Is there a unified, portable bytecode format for Common Lisp? 09:01:15 ABCL runs on the JVM, if that's what you want. 09:01:49 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:41 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:02:46 ABCL's interop seems quite tricky... Maybe I'm not used to it 09:05:36 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:58 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.107] has joined #lisp 09:11:18 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:13:02 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:42 zhtx: Tricky howso? (not arguing, just interested in your pain points) 09:17:44 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:18:36 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:18:47 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:57 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:22:12 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:23:09 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:23:28 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:24:53 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 09:25:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:26:00 easye: for example, jstr is needed to pass a string 09:26:49 it makes me wonder if abcl is really native on JVM lol 09:26:54 pass from where to where? 09:27:03 from lisp to java 09:27:53 Hmmm. Lisp strings should be auto-coerced for such calls. 09:28:13 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 09:28:18 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:28:52 For instance to get the value of HOME environment variable via java.lang.System.getenv("HOME") is just (#"getenv" 'System "HOME") 09:29:07 The "HOME" arg is coerced to a java.lang.String for you. 09:29:10 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 09:29:16 Or do you mean something else? 09:29:31 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:12 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:30 I don't really know ABCL. I will look into it some minutes later. :-) 09:30:56 Ok. Come on by #abcl t oask ABCL specific questions if you wish. 09:31:02 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 09:31:17 Sure 09:32:18 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:32:31 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-71-48.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 09:32:34 -!- Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:53 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-71-48.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:25 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:37:58 Harag [~Thunderbi@197.87.147.124] has joined #lisp 09:38:13 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:38:30 Praise [~Fat@78-134-106-224.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:38:36 -!- Praise [~Fat@78-134-106-224.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Changing host] 09:38:36 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:42:05 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-155-133.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:44:57 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:45:04 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:14 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:46:04 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:49:11 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 09:49:16 -!- zhtx [~wice@124.89.80.65] has left #lisp 09:50:22 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:52:19 lurch__ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:53:29 anyone have a version of mel-base with working imap (i.e. with flexi-streams over binary streams)? or which mail library is generally recommended? 09:54:13 i'm getting it working with a quick fix; nevertheless i'm not sure how reliable that would be 09:55:26 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:26 -!- lurch__ is 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ZZZzzz] 14:43:23 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:40 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206051.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:29 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:47:47 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 14:48:58 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:04 hi nyef 14:51:12 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:21 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-56-107.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-56-107.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:21 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:54:14 -!- momo-reina [~user@acl1-1557bts.gw.smartbro.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:55:12 Hello. 14:55:16 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:55:47 carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:59 -!- yati [~yati@122.169.66.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:11 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:00:50 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.126] has joined #lisp 15:01:10 Hola 15:04:42 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:05:00 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:06:14 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:55 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:10:07 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:15 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:11:55 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.126] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 15:12:56 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 15:13:04 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:40 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:56 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:15:26 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:10 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:47 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:18:29 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 15:19:44 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:23:47 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:25:39 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:26:59 -!- coder` [~user@2a02:810d:600:608:c95a:7858:97ea:7ffa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:39 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:28:01 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.58] has joined #lisp 15:28:32 Hi. I see the lisp loop macro can take keywords and non-keywords (e.g. ":while" vs "while" etc), is one style to be preferred over the other? 15:28:46 are they fully equivalent? 15:29:12 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:15 It just uses them for the names, so yes. 15:30:06 is either of these styles more widely used? 15:30:43 I think it's much of a muchness. Personally I find those colons a bit annoying. 15:30:48 some people prefer one, other prefer another 15:30:57 oh, i see. matter of taste, then 15:31:03 or local style guide 15:32:38 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:32 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:48 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:08 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.126] has joined #lisp 15:37:25 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B2D81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:39:09 Symbols used for their print-names are annoying if you need them to be comparable with EQUAL as well. 15:39:31 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:39 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 15:41:49 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:25 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:48:04 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.126] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 15:48:07 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:28 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:38 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:51 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 15:53:52 AeroNotix [~xeno@abol147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:54:42 ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 15:56:23 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:57:05 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:58:57 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:21 lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:00:35 did I miss it or isn't there a portable way to create a binary stream to/from an vector of type unigned-byte? 16:01:19 (i suppose it should not be too hard to do with Gray streams) 16:01:45 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 16:02:16 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:26 nowhere_man: there is a ported way via flexi-streams. 16:09:35 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-38-160.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:10 Hunh. Minion's "advice on portable" isn't quite right after all. 16:10:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:06 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:20 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:02 jarm [~jarm@201.99.5.73] has joined #lisp 16:16:57 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:57 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 16:17:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:17:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-121-180.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:20:59 -!- jarm [~jarm@201.99.5.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:09 ben_m [~Ben@chello080108155179.8.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:21:56 Hello everyone. Is there a way to refer to other slots in a slot's definition? e.g.: (defclass foo () (x :initarg :x) (y :initform (+ x 3)) 16:24:21 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-33-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:42 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-233-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:26:19 I believe you must define an initialize-instance :after method 16:27:07 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:27:15 Oh yeah, that would work. Thanks :D 16:28:18 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:39 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30:07 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:32:18 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- oleo is now known as Guest82540 16:32:55 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-8-89.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:32:56 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-jyjuzovpfnpacdzk] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 16:33:33 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:33:41 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:06 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:08 Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:35:22 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:37 nilsi [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has joined #lisp 16:37:46 joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has joined #lisp 16:37:51 -!- xani [~user@178.183.159.191.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:40:56 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.134] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:42:37 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:12 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:43:19 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:29 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:37 jewel [~jewel@ti-224-102-11.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:51:24 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 17:01:33 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:02:48 can anyone with experience with the Cells dataflow extension give me a summary of how it works? 17:03:31 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@80.76.244.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:37 I think you can count people who fit that description on half of one hand 17:03:48 Might get lucky and find one here though 17:04:05 hhhmmmmm 17:04:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:04:50 well i'm just thinking that since it hasn't been updated for ~3 years and i'd like to see how to implement FRP without CLOS 17:04:51 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:06:26 ah well, i'll attempt to decipher source code and try some examples meanwhile 17:08:16 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:21 -!- Ulysses22222_ [~daniel@185.3.146.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:25 Ulysses22222 [~daniel@5.144.62.3] has joined #lisp 17:08:39 sellout [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has joined #lisp 17:09:31 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:01 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:00 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 17:12:52 karswell [~user@87.112.183.62] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 17:13:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:33 resttime: FRP? 17:14:43 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:15:01 functional reactive programming? 17:15:05 functional reactive programming 17:15:09 reactive programming 17:15:12 dataflow programming 17:15:15 etc. 17:15:26 buzzword programming 17:15:30 D: 17:15:50 pnpuff [~spdf@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:16:18 -!- pnpuff [~spdf@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:16:36 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:16:40 rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:21:22 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-178-231-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:51 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:23:45 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:08 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.36.138] has joined #lisp 17:27:08 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.36.138] has quit [Changing host] 17:27:08 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 17:28:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:47 peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:25 -!- Guest82540 [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:31:57 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:09 Guest82540 [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:17 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:32:31 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:56 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:33:36 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-062-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:33:52 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856e53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:18 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:58 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42:40 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:13 solidus_ [~sol@109.67.203.94] has joined #lisp 17:43:26 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:43 lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:46:53 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 17:47:04 -!- Guest82540 is now known as oleo 17:48:18 pel_daniel1 [~responsiv@187.191.31.50] has joined #lisp 17:48:45 does anyone know where I might find a utility that just pretty prints common lisp? 17:49:02 I rolled my own, but there are edge cases I'm not equipped to deal with 17:49:07 AntiSpamMeta_ [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 17:49:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta is now known as Guest10158 17:49:08 -!- Guest10158 [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Killed (morgan.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 17:49:08 -!- AntiSpamMeta_ is now known as AntiSpamMeta 17:49:10 (mine just reads in the forms and pretty prints them back out) 17:51:42 What disqualifies the pretty printer for your purposes? 17:52:19 there is one cause of errors, which is also a cause of bad behavior in this method: 17:52:56 fully qualified symbols get resolved, which means they are also printed qualified to the package that originally exported them, not how they are used 17:52:59 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C0761D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 17:53:11 it also means that if the package for that symbol hasn't been loaded already, it is a reader error 17:53:39 Do you want them printed out with no prefix? 17:53:44 Or with a different prefix? 17:53:51 I don't want the pretty printer to change the symbols, just format the code 17:54:05 one idea I had was to name-mangle before pretty printing, then un-mangle 17:54:47 but that will break pretty printer in some cases, for example if I'm in code that doesn't :use the CL package, things like (cl:let) won't be recognized by the pretty printer and will be formatted oddly 17:54:48 I don't really see how that relates to my question. 17:55:16 I don't want symbols changed at all 17:55:53 What do you want changed? 17:55:59 indenting and line breaks 17:56:54 Well, pretty much anything can be changed by fiddling with set-pprint-dispatch. 17:56:56 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.169.73] has joined #lisp 17:57:23 yes, pretty-print is fine, the symbols are either changed or errors are thrown at read time 17:59:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:09 I guess I'm still not really following. Maybe I could follow along better with pasted examples of what happens now and what you'd prefer. 17:59:58 so, to pretty print, first I read in a form from file A, then I pprint it back out to file B 18:00:07 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46.65.36.47] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:00:39 if there is a symbol like (foo:bar) in file A, and there is no package foo, the reader signals an error because that symbol refers to an unknown package 18:00:53 so that is problem 1 18:01:16 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:01 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 18:02:03 so the problem is not with the printer 18:02:06 yes 18:02:15 that is correct, the printer is admirable 18:02:21 this is a reader issue 18:02:30 -!- bitonic [~user@aggm54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:02:43 but, my original question is, does anyone know if someone already created a nice pretty printer for CL code that I could use instead of fixing mine 18:02:53 if not, it would be awesome to know how to fix mine :) 18:03:29 the uh, one in CL, is usually it 18:03:49 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:04:28 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: mental deadlock] 18:04:46 ok, then I am having trouble with conditions, I don't understand how to restart after the reader sees a package that doesn't exist 18:05:17 in which case the solution would seem to be to make-package, intern the symbol into that package, then restart the reader? 18:11:11 sdemarre [~serge@105.146-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:15:43 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:06 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:18:22 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 18:18:24 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 18:19:05 What do you expect to do with this object when you read it? 18:19:19 If you're just making up packages on the fly, they can't really represent anything very meaningful. 18:19:24 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:48 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:01 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:07 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:13 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:35 I simply want to read in an arbitrary lisp file, then print it out 18:21:53 pretty printed 18:21:56 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:06 You can't do that with CL:READ. Maybe pjb's CL-like reader would help. 18:22:15 ahh, thanks 18:23:50 ltbarcly: it's not exactly "little" or a "utility", but you could probably get emacs to do an indent-region in lisp-mode on the file 18:24:06 fortitude: sure, that is fine except it doesn't add or remove line breaks 18:25:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:35 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25:43 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50bb3.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:42 ltbarcly: paredit-wrap-sexp will do what you want (I think), provided you've got paredit 18:28:46 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:29:56 ...or maybe not 18:31:13 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:17 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abol147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:33:48 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 18:34:19 -!- pel_daniel1 [~responsiv@187.191.31.50] has left #lisp 18:38:38 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:44:56 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:45:09 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 18:45:45 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:58 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:27 ltbarcly: emacs is a nice CL pretty printer. 18:46:32 C-M-\ 18:46:56 -!- jewel [~jewel@ti-224-102-11.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:46:57 pjb: that is a nice auto indent 18:47:00 I agree 18:47:05 but it's not a pretty printer? 18:47:25 Otherwise, using my lisp reader, you can read symbols without making them real CL symbols, and you can use the standard CL:PRETTY-PRINT to print out the sexps thus read. 18:47:50 Batteries not included, some assembly required. 18:47:55 ahh, perfect, I was just about to hack a restart into sbcl's read-token 18:48:05 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48:21 just so I know, if something signals an error but doesn't provide a restart, there's no way to inject a restart into it? 18:48:31 no. that doesn't even really make sense. 18:48:54 I agree, just wanted to verify 18:49:09 ok, pjb: you are referring to http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/common-lisp/lisp-reader/ 18:49:14 yes 18:49:39 so I should grab this entire darcs repo? 18:49:46 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has joined #lisp 18:49:49 No, from gitorius.org 18:50:14 Or (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-reader) 18:50:54 I ought to put redirects for darcs. darcs is too google friendly. 18:52:02 kcj_ [~casey@122-60-59-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:52:39 pjb: are there any examples of using this/ 18:52:53 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:53:08 oh, it looks like it works like the regular reader 18:54:42 yes. But it has a hook, com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-reader.reader:readtable-parse-token that let you return whatever you want instead of usual numbers and symbols. 18:55:08 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:33 You could do the same by installing reader macros on all the constituent characters, to read symbols without interning cl:symbols, but something else instead. 18:55:46 With unicode, that makes a lot of reader macros. 18:56:28 well, I presume I could read the file, and just install reader macros for the characters I see 18:58:40 -!- antgreen [~green@216.254.163.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:47 (loop for code below char-code-limit for ch = (code-char code) when (and ch (not (get-macro-character ch) )) do (set-macro-character ch 'parse-token t)) 18:59:43 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:02 banannagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:24 Well, this catches some whitespaces. Let's start from 33. 19:03:14 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 19:05:21 -!- sellout [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:53 chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 19:10:02 nyef: poke 19:11:01 is nyef the same as nef frrom tunes.org? 19:11:32 No, completely different, y? 19:11:49 oh, looking for that person to get a channel added to the clog bot 19:11:55 any idea how to get ahold of them? 19:12:15 No idea. Someone else here might know, though? 19:12:31 *chrisdone* beams at the crowd 19:14:53 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:15:13 AeroNotix [~xeno@abol147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:20:37 Does rotatef ignore ignore nil values? 19:21:02 PuercoPop: no. 19:21:03 Nope. 19:21:36 (let ((a nil) (b t) (c nil) (d t) (e nil)) (rotatef a b c d e) (list a b c d e)) => (t nil t nil nil) 19:22:06 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:19 PuercoPop: what prompted the question? 19:23:35 I'm writing the gist right now. 19:24:10 Does elisp have cond-let? 19:24:13 sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:25 Or even common list 19:24:26 lsip 19:24:29 fuckit 19:24:40 they both have defmacro, so what kind of question is that? 19:24:41 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 19:24:53 well yeah, but I mean built-in really 19:25:19 https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/6196405 I'm using rotatef here but it only appars to assign left to right now swap 19:25:31 My mother? Let me tell you about my mother... 19:25:52 it's not swapf, it's rotatef! 19:26:27 AeroNotix: there's very few operators built-in really. All the rest is written as macros or functions over those few built-ins. 19:26:40 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:42 pjb: that's quite zen :) 19:26:59 yeah I heard there only needs to be about 7 "primitives" to implement a Lisp 19:27:01 right? 19:27:01 That's quite how implementations are implemented! Just read their sources! 19:27:05 Wrong. 19:27:17 You need 25 special operators and a few additionnal primitive functions. 19:27:29 25, 7, close enough! 19:27:46 Yes. 19:27:50 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:27:55 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 -!- ckoch786_ [~ckoch@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:46 AeroNotix: but the point is that there's no difference between a function like cl:format or a macro like cl:loop and a aeronotix:cond-let macro or a aeronotix:do-something-smart function that you can write yourself. 19:28:53 They're all compiled by the same compiler! 19:29:01 -!- chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 19:29:09 For sure, I was just meaning "Do I have to implement this myself or is it already available" 19:29:16 pjb: but in the CLHS when it shows and example implementation it shows the first value being assign to the last one. 19:29:45 AeroNotix: When in doubt if something is implemented you could always do apropos to search for it. (apropos "cond-let"") 19:30:01 PuercoPop: thanks 19:30:07 AeroNotix: (string= "Do I have to implement this myself or is it already available" "Does elisp have cond-let?") -> NIL 19:30:26 pjb: ok 19:30:28 AeroNotix: but you can google for a cond-let, with high probability to find something you can use. 19:30:49 PuercoPop: It's not clear to me what you expect to happen with that function. it is also badly indented. 19:30:52 pjb: I did, and found nothing so I wasn't sure whether my google-fu was shit or that it really didn't exist. So I thought I'd ask here. 19:31:13 PuercoPop: I suspect it's confusion about changing a binding's value vs mutating an object's structure 19:32:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:40 AeroNotix: since it's a macro, googling for "defmacro cond-let" gives you https://github.com/vseloved/rutils/blob/master/core/anaphoric.lisp skipping the clojure polution. 19:32:55 -!- subtlepath [~walker@subtlepath.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:33:08 pjb: thanks, didn't see that 19:33:24 Xach oh you are right about indentation. I'm trying to do an 'iterator' for combinations in a list of size n with only m elements where m < n. It is part of a larger attempt to solve a backtracking problem. I'm trying to do the later. 19:35:12 subtlepath [~walker@subtlepath.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:12 So I take it clojure is kind of blasphemy around here? 19:35:27 At least around me :-) 19:36:33 Clojure has pretty data structures though! 19:36:35 *hides* 19:36:42 That can be implemented in CL. 19:36:45 (and are). 19:37:17 Well, everything can be implemented in CL, that's not that great of an argument. 19:37:20 I was being facetious though. 19:38:59 I mean, efforts could be spent in writting more usable CL implementation, to improve specification of common API for modern libraries, and so on, all in the CL ecosystem, instead of divering efforts re-creating the nth vanity language. 19:39:46 Debuggers, static analysers, tree shakers, binary code obfuscators, IDEs, etc. 19:41:12 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 19:44:41 ckoch786_ [~ckoch@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:18 -!- banannagram is now known as bananagram 19:58:04 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:01 ehu [~ehu@089144206051.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:04 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@109.105.175.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:47 ircbrowse [~ircbrowse@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 20:05:40 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:07:46 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:08:08 cory786 [~cory@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 -!- sdemarre [~serge@105.146-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11:33 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:05 hrr4 [thehrr4@c-50-149-125-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 20:14:51 it's not as sexy to contribute a little to a big existing project as to start a new project and see it working with only your magic involved, I guess 20:15:29 also programming is only fun when you're the only user and the only developer, and when you basically have no specs to follow other than your own imagination... 20:16:55 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:18:38 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:38 pjb: so to implement readtable-parse-token setf it? 20:20:49 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:21:14 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:45 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-57-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:06 I'm thinking about changing the calling convention that I use in the C++ interoperating Common Lisp compiler that I'm working on. 20:22:17 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:24 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:31 Does anyone have an idea of on average what is the most common number of arguments that are passed to a CL function? 20:22:36 Two? Three? Four? 20:22:54 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206051.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:24:12 three or four, i'd guess. should be reasonably easy to get data 20:24:27 drmeister: the movitz paper mentions a study that had stats 20:24:31 drmeister: or a survey of some sort 20:24:33 francogrex [~user@91.182.191.141] has joined #lisp 20:24:50 it was for justifying the register policy for function calls in movitz iirc 20:24:51 Do you have a reference or a year? 20:24:55 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:24:56 i think i have it bookmarked 20:25:36 http://munin.uit.no/bitstream/handle/10037/371/report.pdf 20:25:40 I need to use the C calling convention. So I think that means I decide on a fixed number of arguments followed by varargs. 20:25:44 "both static and dynamic analysis" 20:26:13 I've seen that one before - thanks for pointing it out again. 20:26:35 ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 20:26:46 I need to pass the number of arguments as the first argument and for closures I also need to pass the environment. 20:27:53 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:40 So if its three then I'm thinking something like T* (*fn)(int numargs, T* arg1, T* arg2, T* arg3, ...) 20:29:36 Does this mean that the first three args: arg1, arg2, arg3 would be passed in registers and the varargs would be on the stack? I'm still a bit fuzzy on the details. 20:30:14 And I realize that I'm asking a C question in a CL chat room but it's for CL in the end. 20:30:32 pretty sure how varargs work varies by C implementation 20:31:04 Bike: So it's probably a good #LLVM question. 20:31:45 pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has joined #lisp 20:32:46 If I choose a fixed function prototype like this then I think function calls that take 1, 2 or 3 arguments will be fast. If fewer than three arguments are passed then I plan to set remaining arguments to UNBOUND. 20:33:51 The callee will be responsible for dealing with the arguments. Eg if the callee is (defun XXX (&rest largs) ...) then the callee will cons arg1, arg2 and arg3 into largs. 20:33:58 Does this sound reasonable? 20:35:46 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:36:07 sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:50 -!- pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 20:38:30 ehu` [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 20:38:48 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:38:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:26 -!- Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:42:06 -!- kcj_ [~casey@122-60-59-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:04 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:46 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.191.141] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:46:13 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:19 kcj_ [~casey@122-60-59-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:46:44 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:29 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:28 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51:44 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:52:54 -!- kcj_ [~casey@122-60-59-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:19 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 20:58:05 pjb: I'm having trouble figuring out how to implement readtable-parse-token 20:59:22 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:59:50 pjb: nevermind, it looks like I just have to instantiate a new readtable 21:00:23 -!- ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:59 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:23 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 21:03:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856e53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03:43 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:35 pjb: I agree with your assessment. but for example when you say improve the specification, at want point does the community take another stab at the loop macro? (not saying the clojure version is better, It doesn't even have proper call optimization) 21:05:11 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:12 akbiggs [~akbiggs@70.54.244.114] has joined #lisp 21:05:59 -!- ckoch786_ [~ckoch@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:21 seangrove [~user@187.157.195.157] has joined #lisp 21:09:43 bitonic [~user@arg87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 21:13:43 -!- ehu` [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:02 callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has joined #lisp 21:16:18 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:56 yati [~yati@223.239.193.136] has joined #lisp 21:18:52 ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 21:19:29 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:52 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:59 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:17 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:24:14 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:36 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:51 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856e53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:54 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:09 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:12 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 21:34:18 -!- bitonic [~user@arg87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:19 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:34:19 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 21:35:15 -!- seangrove [~user@187.157.195.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:34 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 21:37:13 gjord [~gjord@ool-18babf32.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-23-207.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:57 cheryllium [~chatzilla@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:32 I'm having trouble understanding the following sentence of the CLHS "If a place produces more values than there are store variables, the extra values are ignored. If a place produces fewer values than there are store variables, the missing values are set to nil." I was under the impression that a place is where values are stored. How does a place produce values? 21:40:40 How do I use the Loop macro to get every 2 chars of a string? 21:41:21 cheryllium: just iterate an index 21:41:33 nothing special 21:41:36 There's no other way to do it? 21:42:04 What are you expecting? 21:42:14 do you have a problem with using an index? 21:42:46 cheryllium: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/0b34c19f781e0622be34 I think this should work 21:42:49 no, I was just wondering if there were a way like (loop for (a b) in *string*). you know, some special way to do it 21:43:09 where args is string 21:43:46 I don't believe you can call cddr on chars in a string, as it is a collection rather than a list. 21:44:02 PuercoPop: that's not going to work 21:44:31 no, I don't have a problem with using an index... just thought that Lisp might have some cooler way of doing it. I'm fine if there isn't... thanks guys :/ 21:45:43 (cddr "abcd") 21:46:04 cheryllium: accessing vector elements is a constant time operation, the reason you may need "for (a b) on list" for lists is because using indexes would be grossly inefficient 21:46:40 cheryllium: you are right it doesn't. I think it also doesn't destructure on things that aren't lists. 21:46:46 yes... should I convert the string to a list of charsthen if I want to get every two chars? 21:46:52 cheryllium: no! 21:47:00 just use the damn indexes 21:47:05 lol okay fine fine 21:48:04 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:49:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:22 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:52:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:54:36 I'm having trouble accessing the stuff defined in a file called utilities.lisp. here is my asd https://gist.github.com/ubikation/6197577 and the utilities file https://gist.github.com/ubikation/6197584 21:55:25 I get "The variable CHEMICALAMBDA::JIMPORT is unbound." when I run (ql:quickload "chemicalambda") 21:55:34 you have defpackage in an .asd file? 21:56:01 regardless, it seems to be lacking (:use :cl) 21:56:11 stassats: I guess I shouldn't? I was copying code 21:56:30 you shouldn't indeed, .asd is for asdf stuff only 21:57:00 and :use :cl would solve your issue 21:58:33 stassats: where should I put (:use :cl)? 21:58:40 clhs defpackage 21:58:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 21:58:59 matko [~matko@ip82-139-123-169.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:55 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:01:08 do you mean like this?: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/6197652 because I am still getting the same error 22:02:01 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:03 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:02:36 you would need to delete the produced earlier fasls 22:02:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-22.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:18 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 22:03:41 where are fasls kept? they aren't in my project dir 22:03:44 and really put it into the package.lisp file, you already have in the components 22:03:50 ~/.cache/common-lisp 22:04:21 -!- yati [~yati@223.239.193.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:29 ah thanks 22:04:37 wait it looks like quicklisp has a cache too? 22:04:56 no, quicklisp doesn't have it, it's asdf cache 22:05:03 "cache" 22:05:11 compile output 22:05:24 quicklisp does have a small cache for asdf.fasl 22:05:48 ah thank you 22:06:10 well I am still having the "The variable CHEMICALAMBDA::JIMPORT is unbound." error after deleting the fasls. 22:06:32 by the way, when should I clear that cache? everytime? 22:06:45 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:07:24 Rarely if ever 22:07:58 if you have newest asdf, when your disk feels up 22:08:18 ubikation: have you restarted abcl? 22:08:36 no 22:09:34 that's what you get for putting defpackage into .asd 22:10:57 thank you! 22:11:04 so where should defpackage be? 22:11:25 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 22:11:37 in package.lisp 22:13:27 defpackage and such is part of the CL standard, whereas ASDF is not? is this right? 22:13:35 correct 22:14:09 i see. a couple of days ago i started to realize :) 22:14:32 PuercoPop: (let (a b c) (setf (values a b c) (values 1 2 3)) (list a b c)) 22:15:02 PuercoPop: now consider: (setf (values a b c) (values 1)) or (setf (values a b c) (values 1 2 3 4 5)) 22:15:59 Or course, works also with: (let ((l (make-list 3))) (setf (values (car l) (cadr l) (caddr l)) (values-list (list 1 2 3))) l) 22:16:12 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-155-133.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:19 pjb: ahh I hadn't considered multiple values. Thanks! 22:18:37 PuercoPop: and (setf (colors tree) (values green red marron)), if you define the correct setf expander for colors. 22:18:39 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:07 In common lisp, are there iterator and generator objects? 22:19:17 Not natively, but there are closures. 22:19:48 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 22:19:48 and libraries. 22:20:46 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:49 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-66.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 22:22:09 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-37.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:11 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:31 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-37.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:13 -!- dented42 [~dented42@1667024149.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:23:26 does cl have anything builtin (or is there a more idiomatic way) of performing: (defun fun (lst param) (append lst (list param)) 22:24:10 The idiomatic way to do it is: (let ((temp (reverse list))) (push param temp) (reverse temp)) 22:24:39 That is: (let ((temp (reverse list))) (do-a-few-gazillion-times (push param temp)) (reverse temp)) 22:24:40 wat? 22:24:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:21 What? 22:25:23 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@98.245.40.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:27 robot-beethoven: what you have is the idiomatic way 22:25:34 pjb: that is not "idiomatic" 22:25:46 The idiomatic way in lisp is NOT to add at the end of the lists. 22:25:55 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:57 At leat, not often. 22:25:59 +s 22:26:07 dented42 [~dented42@1667024149.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 what's a good name for this operation? 22:26:21 snoc 22:26:32 (it conses at the end, so reverse cons) 22:27:15 robot-beethoven: append-1 - but i'd try not to do that at all 22:28:00 robot-beethoven: just leave as it is 22:28:22 if you need a name for it, then probably you should think about prepending instead 22:28:33 just what I said. 22:28:49 rcons? 22:28:59 (reverse "cons") => "snoc" 22:29:16 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:29:51 way too smart for a real program 22:30:06 It should be a private function anyways. 22:30:42 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:30:55 H4ns: do you mean that needing such a function is likely an indicator that you're solving the greater problem in an over-complicated way? 22:31:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:31 robot-beethoven: no, it is an indication of using the wrong data structure for something. if you need to append to a list, then you should not be using list in the first place. 22:31:42 What would have been the first hint? 22:33:14 -!- scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:34:54 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:01 i find the need for it is arising constantly when using cl-yacc (though maybe i'm "doing it wrong"). for example, in a 'list' production like: (item* () (item* item #'append-1)) 22:37:23 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.32] has joined #lisp 22:40:09 hey guys, I can't manage to load SWANK in ECL 12.12.1 http://paste.lisp.org/+2YSD 22:40:09 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:28 is there a current known issue? 22:40:31 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-66.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:17 -!- arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:42 it's not a slime issue, an asdf one 22:43:22 harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has joined #lisp 22:43:28 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-007-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:45:21 nowhere_man: did you you use ql:quickload to load it? it works fine in my ECL (but i have version 13.5.1) 22:45:23 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.58] has joined #lisp 22:45:47 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 22:45:47 tolk: no, (require :swank) after (require :ecl-quicklisp) 22:45:55 I'll try the other 22:46:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:50 i tried (ql:quickload "swank") right after firing up ECL, worked fine. I hadn't quickloaded swank before either. 22:48:28 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:13 tolk: nope, same error 22:49:16 damnit 22:49:40 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:49:53 nowhere_man: try using a more current version of ECL if possible, perhaps that has something to do with it 22:50:02 harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has joined #lisp 22:50:20 this is not related to slime, again 22:50:29 just doing (require :profile) would produce the same error 22:50:46 yeah, the error seams to be in ECL's ASDF 22:51:27 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:55 I was hoping it's a known problem with a known fix 22:52:26 i also had a couple of problems with older versions of ECL 22:52:58 the known fix is to update 22:53:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 22:53:12 2012 was like a decade ago 22:53:22 2013 is all the rage now 22:54:37 archlinux has an obsolete ECL package (12.12.1). Now i just pull from the git repo every now and then 22:59:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:43 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:04:19 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:06:36 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:08:34 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:10 16WAAUZUL [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:11:12 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:12:05 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-hjtvskepiuktvzyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:13:27 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-odkryubqzcvouziu] has joined #lisp 23:14:10 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:15 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:15 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 23:23:49 -!- cory786 [~cory@98.103.82.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23:54 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:36 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 23:26:54 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:01 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 23:28:14 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.169.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:02 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:20 sergey [~sergey@93.171.170.161] has joined #lisp 23:32:04 -!- sergv_ [~sergey@93.171.170.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:40 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:52 From a code organization standpoint, assuming multiple source code files and clos objects and methods, do people tend to keep methods together in the same file as the generic method or keep them with in the file with the relevant clos definition? 23:39:15 sabra: I'd say it depends on the size 23:39:44 when I have just a few uncomplicated methods, I usually keep them with the GF 23:40:44 in one project, I had the core methods along with the GF, and an extension had a new set of methods defined in another file 23:41:11 cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:42 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:31 Oladon [~Oladon@c-76-120-105-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:55 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@70.54.244.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:43 carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:27 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-odkryubqzcvouziu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:52:17 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-xzsjitgrvagvvdck] has joined #lisp 23:55:31 sabra: that's the point of multimethods: you can spread them out over the files as you wish! 23:56:00 -!- springz [~springz@175.43.123.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:57:01 That's when you start programming with CLOS that you realize how primitive the notion of file is to organize code. 23:58:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]