00:02:35 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:35 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:09 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06:46 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.3] 00:14:06 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:14:07 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 00:15:43 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.47.218] has joined #lisp 00:16:11 zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-74-248-194-145.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:41 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-74-248-194-145.tys.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 00:21:11 carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:28:55 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:30:49 -!- itidus21 [~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:56 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:15 barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:52 -!- jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle_] 00:32:58 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: NihilistDandy] 00:35:36 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:38:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Client Quit] 00:43:43 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:03 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 00:53:02 -!- barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:08 any hu.dwim-ers in the house? 00:54:32 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:21 tolk` [~user@host50.190-136-124.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:55:41 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:57:04 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:57:12 -!- tolk [~user@host210.190-231-106.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:11 or someone that has done any customization of hu.dwim.stefil reporting 01:02:08 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:53 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 prxq__ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e176.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:04 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:52 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:21 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c881.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:07:34 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@cable-95-168-137-177.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:08:57 or how about anyone who's used the new nst version 4 01:09:42 impulse [~impulse@65.92.150.193] has joined #lisp 01:11:40 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-155-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:03 0 for 3 01:22:42 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:48 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.215] has joined #lisp 01:24:37 if i have macrolets defined in a function, are they expanded when the function is called or at macro-expansino time? 01:27:37 macroexpansion time 01:27:55 er, assuming the function is compiled 01:29:55 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 01:34:40 -!- zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:39:10 papyrus [~papyrus@119.18.126.21] has joined #lisp 01:39:44 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-73-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:46 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-80-127.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:42:53 gko_ [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:05 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 01:44:51 -!- Guest72402 is now known as daem0n 01:44:52 -!- daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has quit [Changing host] 01:44:52 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 01:45:19 -!- daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has left #lisp 01:46:50 danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 01:46:51 Ulysses22222_ [~daniel@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 01:49:21 -!- Ulysses22222 [~daniel@185.3.146.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:49:22 -!- Ulysses22222_ is now known as Ulysses22222 01:49:54 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:07 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:14 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:29 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has left #lisp 01:59:43 m104 [~m104@mobile-166-137-178-172.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:16 -!- m104 [~m104@mobile-166-137-178-172.mycingular.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:01:28 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:04:54 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:07:00 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.150.193] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:09:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.47.218] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:10:33 zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.215.3] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 -!- zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.215.3] has quit [Client Quit] 02:12:14 Apane [~Apane@CPE7cb21bc298cf-CM7cb21bc298cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:17 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:12:17 hey, any feedback or upvotes would be appreciated guys https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6176525 02:13:46 Apane: Does it use Common Lisp? 02:14:16 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 02:14:35 Yes 02:14:45 written in Lisp 02:14:53 Are there details about that aspect of it? 02:14:55 any feedback or upvotes on HN would be appreciated :) 02:15:25 It is similar to Hackernews itself which is notably another site written in Lisp 02:15:29 My feedback so far is that you are spamming this channel with off-topic garbage unless there is interesting info about the Lisp connection. 02:15:57 Hacker News is written in Arc, which is also off-topic for this channel. 02:16:18 Don't ask for upvotes. 02:23:35 Hey, only if ya feel like it pal :) 02:23:56 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:02 it's all work no play here huh. what are we working for though if we can't share our work. hmm 02:24:28 Apane: which implementation did you use? 02:24:35 -!- ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:38 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:23 Apane: Are you interested in discussing anything about the use of lisp here? 02:26:54 Of course, I think it's a great but misunderstood language 02:27:15 will it ever reach mainstream e.g. python, ruby? 02:28:08 Apane: What implementation of Lisp are you using for that site? 02:28:42 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.226.208] has joined #lisp 02:28:42 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.226.208] has quit [Changing host] 02:28:42 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:30:48 i dont like to disclose that 02:30:50 but why not 02:30:53 CMUCL 02:31:06 How did you deploy it on Heroku? 02:31:21 Why did you choose CMUCL in 2013? 02:31:48 wait why did u comment that on hn? 02:31:57 Ryan_Burnside [~user@63-153-66-53.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:57 Because that is what you did. 02:32:03 and it's not spamming..it's asking the developer communinty for feedback.. 02:32:32 is "stop spamming" adequate feedback 02:32:35 can you delete that comment?..like we work hard on this stuff. pretty calice of you my man 02:32:46 Spamming? 02:32:50 I posted it once 02:32:51 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:56 do you know what spamming means? 02:33:16 Apane: Are you willing to share why you chose CMUCL in 2013? 02:33:28 Are u willing to delete that comment if i do? 02:34:01 We'll see. 02:35:13 Apane: I think you're experiencing a serious misunderstanding about why people find what you've done here distasteful. 02:36:22 Sure, I chose CMUCL because it works well with cloud development and various unix systems that I work with. Has a good native code compiler but most importantly it's freely redistributable with full source code 02:36:56 Oladon..I get that it's a LISP channel. However, in other channels i've been apart of we openly share our projects with the 'community' 02:37:20 Albeit, every community is different and perhaps you guys don't do that. That's fine. 02:37:24 Apane: I'm sorry that you aren't open to receiving feedback on your presentation style/methods. 02:37:52 Apane: That describes several CL implementations. How did CMUCL set itself apart for you? 02:38:25 ryankara1on [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:25 Xach, I haven't worked with any other implementations so it's all I know. But it's done me good up to this point. 02:38:32 if redistributability is so important, why would you not even tell us what implementation you were using 02:38:40 In my experience, people most often use CMUCL because they used it in the 90s when it was the best of a few choices. But now the field is wide open and CMUCL is not frequently used. 02:39:07 It's old, but my mentor/teacher knows it like the back of his hand 02:39:13 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.137.12] has joined #lisp 02:39:18 Who is your mentor? 02:39:23 PG 02:39:52 Anyways, it was nice chatting with you. 02:39:53 -!- ryankarason [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39:56 Sorry for 'spamming' 02:39:57 That fits the "used it in the 90s" profile. 02:39:59 night 02:40:51 *Oladon* sighs. 02:41:49 Apane: what web server did you use? 02:42:55 carlo5m [~carlo5m@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-244-237.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f51yPfhQZn8 02:44:21 ah wrong window, sorry 02:45:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-73-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:52 -!- ryankara1on is now known as Rk 02:47:04 Xach, ya havin fun over there pal :) 02:47:40 Xach: Do you happen to know of any libraries for parsing ics files? I've looked fairly extensively and started work on one, but might as well ask you :) 02:47:47 nilsi_ [~nilsi@124.79.137.12] has joined #lisp 02:47:53 -!- danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewi-1] 02:48:31 Oladon: I think I've heard of one but I'd have to google for it. 02:48:51 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:48:53 Hmm. 02:49:07 Apane: I think deploying a website on Heroku with CMUCL in 2013 is really weird and interesting. I'd love to know more about the setup. 02:49:20 Apane: I'm worried that you're lying about it, though. 02:49:51 The kind of person who would join a bunch of channels to solicit upvotes on HN does not seem like the most clued-in, trustworthy type. Would love to be wrong about it. 02:49:52 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:29 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.137.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:50:45 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:10 Hi. So I have a list of strings and lists, which in turn may have strings and lists in a nested list structure. In a normal flat list of strings, I can use the format function to print the list elements with a delimiter in between. In the nested list case, I want to print out a tabstop whenever I'm going into a sublist, and then continue printing normally. I realize this might require a separate function, but is there a way I can do this with a si 02:51:10 ngle format function, or am I asking for too much? 02:51:13 Xach: happen to remember anything about it I could use to search? 02:51:30 Oladon: I'm afraid not. It might be something as boring as cl-ics or cl-icalendar or something. 02:51:46 I'd hope my Google Fu would've turned those up by now, but I'll keep looking. Thanks :P 02:51:57 Oladon: i also might just be remembering wrong 02:52:13 pranavrc: Is it nested arbitrarily deeply or just one level? 02:52:15 doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:19 Xach: I'll keep that possibility in mind too :) 02:52:28 drmeister [~meister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:36 Xach, arbitrarily 02:52:49 pranavrc: no way to do it in format. 02:53:00 Alright then thanks! 02:53:05 ~/my-app::print-nested/ to the rescue! 02:53:15 -!- Apane [~Apane@CPE7cb21bc298cf-CM7cb21bc298cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 02:53:26 Xach, how would you do it in a one-level deep list? 02:54:33 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-250-231.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:36 pranavrc: Trick question! I don't know how to do it that way either, but it seems more tractable. 02:54:42 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-244-237.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:55:35 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-200-17.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:55:37 Xach: Oh hey look, cl-icalendar... 02:55:38 :P 02:55:45 *Oladon* Google Fu Fail. 02:55:56 Xach, ah, indeed it does. Right, then 02:56:00 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:56:41 Oladon: https://github.com/slyrus/soiree ?? 02:56:56 Oladon: cool. i'm not totally crazy. 02:57:04 patrickwonders: ooh, another one. 02:57:09 And, yes.. cl-icalendar... 02:57:17 Xach: I don't think you can use that as definitive proof... 02:58:05 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:48 Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.3.90] has joined #lisp 03:02:30 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:37 -!- sellout is now known as Guest22888 03:04:19 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 03:06:31 -!- Ryan_Burnside [~user@63-153-66-53.hlna.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:50 -!- antgreen [~green@216.254.163.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:46 tianyu69 [~user@218.246.107.87] has joined #lisp 03:13:39 -!- Guest22888 is now known as sellout- 03:14:06 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined 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[~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:12:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:12:06 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-237-111.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-250-231.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:13:43 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:14:15 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 05:15:20 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 05:15:23 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-pmoemykcnjxmxfog] has joined #lisp 05:16:50 -!- drmeister [~meister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:01 i really can't seem to warm up to NST 05:19:16 -!- CADD|away [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:43 nilsi_ [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has joined #lisp 05:22:07 Any idea how I should reference key parameters from allow-other-keys? my first approach is incorrect: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/eab43319166e4029275b 05:22:17 is there a substantial nst user community 05:22:27 PuercoPop: getf 05:23:15 PuercoPop: ok, you're doing something smelly here, what exactly do you want? 05:24:52 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:25:18 it seems to have so much to offer, but at a cost 05:25:26 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:29:31 drmeister [~meister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:14 A friend of mine wanted to pass protocols(interfaces) as values in clojure. Inspired by the Fare's Interface Passing Style I've been reading I thought own could do that with just a clojure containing function calls on can retrieve or set. To make my point I was doing a short implementation of it in Common Lisp (he could later translate it to Clojure or adapt it to use protocols if he wants.) But for the interface co 05:30:14 nstructor I want to accept an arbitrary number of named lambdas. See this for a rough sketch of the idea: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5e8049ba5d6d119972e5 05:31:00 you want (&rest args &key &allow-other-keys) i think 05:31:44 Yeah, then you do (getf args :keyname) to get the value. 05:31:47 *PuercoPop* I'll try it 05:31:56 *PuercoPop* nods 05:31:57 krishnak` [~krishnak@204.28.120.61] has joined #lisp 05:32:33 -!- krishnak` [~krishnak@204.28.120.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:34 I don't really understand what you're going for but it seems like the keys are kind of coincidental, you just want to take a plist. 05:32:53 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:33:14 PuercoPop: ah is this the clclojure project on github you're working on? 05:33:27 joinr/clclojure 05:34:17 Like, uh, (defun make-interface (&rest methods) (lambda (action name &optional value) (ecase action ((:get) (getf name methods)) ((:set) (setf (getf name methods) value))))) 05:34:40 Which looks more like an object than an "interface" to me, but I dunno. 05:36:27 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:49 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:10 danlentz: No. I've tried liking clojure, but I'm unable to bring myself to endure nrepl compare to slime. So I just try to do as much Common Lisp as I can on my free time. I always have fun. My friend is porting the robots game from the AppleII to clojure. The url is https://github.com/richardharrington/robotwar is you are interested. 05:37:26 -!- tianyu69` [~user@218.246.107.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:31 Bike: without properties. So an interface/mixin? 05:37:36 or I am wrong? 05:37:44 "properties"? 05:38:37 slots in cl parlance 05:39:01 I'm not sure what else you'd call the "methods". 05:39:41 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:58 Not sure what you are getting at. What I think he was trying to do is (robot1 (interface :get :move)) so that every robot is free to implement his own move. I want to show him that is done easily with just let and lambda as he was struggling with protocols. 05:44:13 In common lisp I think methods would be a better choice though. 05:44:34 What's robot1 do? You're passing it a function, you see that I'm sure. 05:45:38 So the idea is every player implements the robots logic and the programming runs it. So each robot has a different move implementation 05:46:09 And robot1 is the generic cross-player "run robot"? 05:47:21 *PuercoPop* nods. I just saw your plist suggestion. seems like a better idea. 05:47:35 -!- youlysse` is now known as youlysses 05:47:52 well, bad access times. 05:48:21 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:48:42 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:44 Anyway as-is this is equivalent to an "interface" just being a struct that happens to have functions in its slots, do you see that? 05:50:17 Yeah. 05:50:31 that's all i meant when i said it looks like objects to me. 05:50:46 *PuercoPop* nods 05:51:18 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-205-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:51:31 For something more method-y you could do, I don't know, (defun make-bot (&key move shoot) (lambda (message) (ecase message ((:move) (funcall move)) ((:shoot (funcall shoot)))))) 05:52:06 (defun move (bot) (funcall bot :move)) and then (move (make-bot :move #'my-cool-move)) 05:52:35 I'm kind of curious what this has to do with Clojure because this is like, the actor model, from the 80s. 05:53:52 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:53:57 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 05:54:09 I think my friend was trying to abuse a language feature called protocols. Which are supposed to be more efficient as they are implemented in Java Classes. I wanted to show him a simple way of doing the same thing with something lambda-calcusi. 05:54:22 youlysse` [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:02 -!- youlysses [~user@24.217.211.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:26 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host165.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:44 I'm going to find out in more detail tomorrow. 05:56:01 k0001 [~k0001@host165.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:56:40 seg [~user@198.23.71.75-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:49 well you can implement whatever class/object system on top of lambdas if you want to and hate efficiency enough 05:57:51 APane [~PG_@CPE7cb21bc298cf-CM7cb21bc298cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:26 -!- youlysse` [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:22 True that I'm not worrying about performance. 06:01:03 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:01:39 btw Bike do you have any advice on how to best improve at programming (cl) besides trying to write as much code as possible? 06:01:54 i do not have any advice, sorry 06:02:03 *PuercoPop* nods 06:02:34 anyone here know how to get an hackernews account re-instated? 06:02:50 (defun make-class (&rest method-names) (lambda (&rest methods) (lambda (message) (funcall (nth (position message method-names) methods)))) 06:03:28 actually put another level of abstraction in there for multiple instances, i guess 06:06:43 *PuercoPop* nods 06:08:05 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-155-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:09:40 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:06 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.155] has joined #lisp 06:11:06 -!- APane [~PG_@CPE7cb21bc298cf-CM7cb21bc298cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 06:11:23 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:12:37 -!- seg [~user@198.23.71.75-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has left #lisp 06:13:51 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:15:48 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:16:02 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:26 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:18:54 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 06:19:29 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:08 -!- resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: resttime] 06:21:31 -!- ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:00 bitonic [~user@asx175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:23:01 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host165.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:23:20 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-237-111.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-237-111.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:25:30 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 06:26:40 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 06:27:25 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:31:31 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:34:33 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815066.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:47 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-233-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:52 I'm getting a really weird error in the ecase form saying that the key is not a number: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/bbe7170a00e534185a5f 06:39:15 -!- drmeister [~meister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:21 <|3b|> you can't multiply :get 06:39:33 <|3b|> maybe you wanted (funcall * :get)? 06:39:40 isn't * shorthand for last expression? 06:39:49 ahh but it is only the * 06:39:51 as a variable, yes, but not as a function 06:39:52 silly me sorry 06:40:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:41:00 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:48 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:45:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-237-111.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:53:37 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-spyeusegincjfjjj] has joined #lisp 06:58:40 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 07:05:09 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:07:14 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:08:52 -!- igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-110-151.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:20:04 youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-28-93.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:44 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 07:31:52 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815066.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:32:14 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:12 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:46 hello 07:41:16 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:47:50 -!- seangrove [~user@187.157.195.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:25 -!- bitonic [~user@asx175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:50:32 harish [~harish@124.197.76.193] has joined #lisp 07:51:45 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 -!- rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:53:11 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 07:54:48 so I wrote something to read lisp files and pretty print them 07:54:51 but it breaks when you have some symbols that have the package in them, like asdf:blah 07:55:03 is there some way to make the reader just treat the symbols as data? 07:58:54 trap the condition and recover by creating the package and interning it. I don't think the exact condition that is raised is standardized so it might be hard to do it portably. 07:59:35 ick 08:01:33 your approach will probably run into problems with source code that sets up its own reader macros etc too 08:01:36 well that is gross but I can cope with it 08:03:01 this is just a utility I wrote to deal with code I am generating 08:03:05 because the generated code is ugly 08:08:16 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-155-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:18 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 08:09:49 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Client Quit] 08:11:23 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 08:11:55 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:12 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:28 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:16:32 jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:17:16 -!- dented42 [~dented42@1667024149.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:20:23 MrMc [~user@85.183.57.26] has joined #lisp 08:21:25 i need a little help. this code is from gtfl library: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138383 08:21:57 if i write (append-to-element *text-id* "blabla") it just works as expected. 08:22:24 but if i write (append-to-element *text-id* text-variable) it doesn't work 08:22:34 <|3b|> why is it a macro? 08:23:08 i don't know. the library is made by martin loetzsch 08:23:15 http://martin-loetzsch.de/gtfl/ 08:23:54 in the second example, it just don't evaluate the text-variable as expected 08:24:16 macro-expand the two cases, the one that works and the one that doesn't 08:24:43 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:04 pavelpenev_ [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:04 -!- pavelpenev_ [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:24 i did that. i paste the result. 08:25:27 dented42 [~dented42@1667024149.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:28 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138384 08:26:21 any users of cl-mysql? it's silently converting '' to NIL and I'd like to know why and when it's a good idea for the author? 08:26:25 this is the second expand 08:27:30 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:40 so who2s is a macro too 08:27:57 ah 08:28:12 so try a full macroexpand 08:28:19 how do i do that? 08:28:34 <|3b|> looks like it uses cl-who, don't really remember how it interprets variables, maybe pass (str text-variable) instead of text-variable? 08:28:56 it's a good idea, i try it 08:30:00 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:22 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:45 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:12 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:20 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:57 it works, thanks 08:33:04 (str text-variable) 08:35:25 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:42 bitonic [~user@asx175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:44:35 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:54 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-205-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:55:02 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:55 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:57:58 -!- harish [~harish@124.197.76.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:02 sergv_ [~sergey@93.171.170.161] has joined #lisp 09:03:41 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:13:02 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-155-133.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:14:16 -!- bitonic [~user@asx175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:38 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:15:15 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:15:51 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:16:15 seems I just receive empty string as nil from cl-mysql, even with their type-map system 09:16:16 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:16:43 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:17:29 -!- MrMc [~user@85.183.57.26] has left #lisp 09:23:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-228-29.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:23:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-228-29.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:23:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:26:13 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:26:30 add^_ [~user@m5-241-134-103.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:28:40 zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has joined #lisp 09:28:45 ;Good morning. 09:35:19 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:35:22 mal___: still awake? I'm having no luck figuring out how to define the right restart on (read) 09:36:14 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@unaffiliated/teratogen] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:44 I'm getting ready for lunch so I'm still fairly awake :) 09:36:57 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:37:00 but I haven't done something like that either. which implementation are you using 09:37:06 sbcl 09:37:33 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:37:36 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:38 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:37:49 I got it to see the error with handler-case 09:37:55 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:56 but then upon reading further it seems that that is no good 09:37:57 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:38:04 because the stack is already unwound by then? 09:38:09 that would be sb-int:simple-reader-package-error 09:38:14 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:38:19 correct 09:38:33 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:34 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:38:52 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:53 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:39:03 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 09:39:13 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:13 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:39:31 Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:49 yeah you need handler-bind so you can insert the created symbol and continue 09:40:55 ok, have that working, but I don't know how to figure out what the missing symbol is in my handler function 09:41:19 I'm new to this 09:41:27 I have a handler function that is getting called with the error 09:44:23 look at kent pitman's condition paper. IIRC he does the example of trapping an undefined variable and giving it some value so the computation can continue 09:47:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:09 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:47:34 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has joined #lisp 09:48:20 yakov [~yakov@81.3.129.2] has joined #lisp 09:51:43 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-155-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:54:03 hey, just discovered inspect 09:54:07 now I'm with it 09:54:51 yeah if the condition doesn't record enough data to reconstitute the symbol, you're hosed 09:56:12 it seems to 09:56:19 I just don't know how to get at it 09:56:24 are conditions clos objects? 09:59:24 the standard doesn't guarantee it but in practice yes 10:01:13 gots it 10:01:16 thanks for the help 10:05:53 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:40 mal___: hmm, it seems like when my restart is called, it's too late or something? 10:07:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:07:14 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:07:17 -!- arkx [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:07:18 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:07:23 arkx [~aku@192.81.222.208] has joined #lisp 10:07:33 -!- gko_ [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:46 zfx [~zfx@ec2-176-34-198-128.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:03 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-247-100.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:08:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-247-100.vodafone.hu] has quit 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11:10:33 hajovonta: write your own eval 11:10:42 where you only allow what you wish to allow ... 11:11:04 that is one possibility for sure 11:11:05 -!- smoothcoat28 [~smoothcoa@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:31 that is generally the only possibility 11:12:22 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:30 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 11:12:39 #gammu 11:12:58 \join #gammu 11:14:07 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-33-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:16:10 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:28 denman52 [~Denman52@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:07 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:25:51 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:29:38 gko_ [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:03 pavelpenev_ 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[~cdidd@89-178-158-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:54 hello, I am refactoring a code of mine that uses plist as a datatype. I would like to migrate away from plist to a class. So far I have found that I can use (defstruct (former-plist (:type list)) (f1-marker :f1) (f1 nil) (f2-marker :f2 nil)) instead of a plist of the format (:f1 value :f2 value) 14:03:01 I wonder, is there a path to avoid the defstruct during the transition period when I will replace all getf and (setf getf) calls? 14:04:15 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:04:26 I would like to transition directly to a defclass defined class, in order to do the transition only once, instead of twice (from plist to struct then from struct to class). 14:06:36 TMA: one option: write generic function accessors, specialize them for the case when the list is an object to use GETF 14:06:48 then have your DEFCLASS implement the case when the object is an instance. 14:07:09 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 14:07:17 -!- mathmonkey [~user@static.166.91.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:11:13 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:11:33 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:17:36 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:48 sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:50 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:17:50 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 BlackCherry [~bkcherry@unaffiliated/blackcherry] has joined #lisp 14:19:08 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-236.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:50 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:03 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-38-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:23:05 Xach: using (DEFSTRUCT (name (:type list)) ...) allows me to have a working application where only some of the GETF calls were expunged. The generic function accessor approach would need total extinction of GETFs in the code in order to switch to DEFCLASS, do I understand it correctly? 14:24:37 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:27:10 TMA: yes. 14:27:26 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-38-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:36 another hack would be to redefine getf (via a package very similar to common-lisp but with getf being a generic function) 14:28:15 thoguh i gotta say, that sounds like it would be very confusing 14:29:00 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-137-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:39 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 14:33:03 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-237-111.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-97-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:35:34 -!- BlackCherry [~bkcherry@unaffiliated/blackcherry] has left #lisp 14:40:15 nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has joined #lisp 14:40:53 -!- coreytrevor [~ma@95.211.186.115] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:41:50 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.3.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:43 aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-137-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:45:10 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 14:47:53 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:48:00 _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 14:48:53 tolk` [~user@host50.190-136-124.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:49:44 -!- tolk` is now known as tolk 14:50:26 syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 14:53:13 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:53:35 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:06 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:55:20 it sounds like an approach difficult to make correct; (SETF MY::GETF) would need to be defined too, making the area available for mistakes bigger 14:56:19 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:51 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.104] has joined #lisp 15:01:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-97-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:13 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:06:44 maxter [~maxter@sundownness.lullaby.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:57 muimota [~quassel@190.205.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:08:10 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-spyeusegincjfjjj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:27 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Memory upgrade time!] 15:09:29 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 15:09:56 -!- maxter [~maxter@sundownness.lullaby.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:56 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:11:58 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:12 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:29 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-39-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:14:44 resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:17:54 k0001 [~k0001@host236.186-109-182.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:24:04 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 15:24:17 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:26:01 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-233-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:39 -!- Baggers [c2b06990@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.176.105.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:32:02 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-017-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:45 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-236.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:37:14 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:39 I will need to find something else than quicklisp to setup a #! script, it's adding 1m40 on a run-time of about 1m here 15:38:04 here's the #! if you want to see it: http://git.tapoueh.org/?p=pgloader.git;a=blob;f=pgloader.lisp;h=107d9953bdbf666b94dacab8d1a03b5873b14f81;hb=HEAD 15:38:09 ASau [~user@p5797F401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:58 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:23 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-236.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:42:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-236.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:55 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-236.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:15 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:54 `26_ [~what@gateway/tor-sasl/26/x-07558203] has joined #lisp 15:47:11 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:47:38 -!- `26 [~what@gateway/tor-sasl/26/x-07558203] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:49:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:53:43 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:09 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:04 nilsi_ [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has joined #lisp 16:03:39 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@101.95.4.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:17 nilsi_ [~nilsi@5.254.135.185] has joined #lisp 16:04:40 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:10 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@5.254.135.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:59 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-pmoemykcnjxmxfog] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 16:16:19 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 16:20:11 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:03 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:23 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 16:25:10 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:25:19 bitonic [~user@asx175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:26:49 sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:49 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:26:49 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:30:33 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:40 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:30:43 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:50 antgreen [~green@out-on-214.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:40 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 16:35:34 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:41 -!- muimota [~quassel@190.205.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:49 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 16:39:39 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:13 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.30] has joined #lisp 16:42:40 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:59 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 16:43:24 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:45 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 16:55:04 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:18 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-214.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:55:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz] 17:38:12 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-166-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:47 -!- vsync- [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:20 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:40 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-33-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:47:12 wolfgang42 [~quassel@wikipedia/Wolfgang42] has joined #lisp 17:47:30 -!- bitonic [~user@asx175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:50:34 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:51:36 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC9C8111.mobile.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 17:52:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC9C8111.mobile.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:55:00 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: guru meditation] 17:58:43 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:12 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:59:23 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:00:42 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13:54 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:30 seangrove [~user@187.157.195.157] has joined #lisp 18:14:49 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host236.186-109-182.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:15:48 it seems super restrictive to me that all methods implementing a generic function have to have the same number of required parameters 18:16:14 am I missing something about how to use them? 18:16:39 attila_lendvai are there any existing code that someone put together alternative reporting for stefil? Basically, just something similar to lisp-unit would be what i have in mind -- much more useful than tens of millions of dots :) (yes i know about without test-progress-printing). It shouldn't be difficult to accomplish (by making a customized defsuite with the reporting incorporated into the body. and perhaps a customized 18:16:40 -run-child-tests-) but i just wanted to check if there was prior art before investing time in it 18:16:52 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.58] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:37 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:19:39 attila_lendvai: the test-run result would be sufficient to use, but the idea is to have the feedback generated incrementally while testing is being done as well 18:20:03 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:06 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-137-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:46 ltbarcly_: What's an example of two meaningful methods for a GF that have different numbers of required arguments? 18:22:08 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:22:23 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:24:15 Xach: lets say I have a method like write-to-file, and I implement it on STRING, then later I implement it to handle unicode objects, and I want to be able to pass an optional encoding in the second case 18:25:26 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:50 What's the trouble? 18:28:09 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:28:39 it just seems odd to me that a method on two classes have to have the same lambda list just because both classes use the same method name 18:30:09 maybe I'm just wrong about how it works? 18:30:16 ltbarcly_: it bugged me too at first 18:30:30 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:30:53 ltbarcly_: but the keyword arguements can differ 18:31:17 oh, it's just the existence that has to be the same? 18:31:33 in that case, why bother with having this rule at all? 18:35:02 ltbarcly_: "on" two classes? 18:35:05 I suppose the parsing of argument lists would get a bit nightmarish without 18:35:48 ltbarcly_: the generic function definition establishes the lambda list rules. the methods are responsible for implementing the semantics for some set of argument classes. 18:36:13 methods aren't "on" classes, they're fragments of the implementation of the overall GF. 18:36:53 Xach: that's just how it's implemented, other languages have no such restriction 18:37:07 ltbarcly_: that's actually the other way around 18:37:11 Few if any languages have the concept of a generic function at all. 18:37:18 pinning a method on a class is a restriction 18:37:34 at least that's how I see it now that I'm used to CLOS 18:37:55 they're different systems. "restrictions" is a restrictive way to think about it 18:37:57 I mean on methods, CLOS happens to use generic functions for methods, which means it has this limitation where two methods with the same name on different classes have to have the same lambda list 18:38:06 Bike: nice one 18:38:39 if CLOS used message passing instead, it wouldn't care at all what messages you sent, and sending one that can't be handled would be a runtime error, for example 18:38:42 i've seen what python does with allowing different methods to have different signatures and it's a bit frightening 18:38:57 ltbarcly_: but you could only send messages to one object. 18:39:05 ltbarcly_: It's not "happens to use", generic functions are to me the primary piece of CLOS, and classes are for supporting GFs, not the other way around. 18:39:08 because that's a different system. apples and oranges. 18:39:12 ltbarcly_: but then you need the visitor pattern for many cases 18:39:31 or worse 18:40:09 A GF is identified by its name and the arguments it supports; different sets of arguments for different semantics need different names. 18:40:20 I guess what I'm asking is: it seems very plausible that generic functions could support having different lambda lists, dispatching on that sort of thing is not hard or inefficient, but it seems like they intentionally decided to not allow it? 18:40:44 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:05 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:41:17 ltbarcly_: what argument list should it show when you start writing "(foo "? 18:41:19 Bike: it's not just python, it's basically every OO language 18:41:50 well, they're mostly single methods, not multimethods 18:41:51 ltbarcly_: given these two methods: (defmethod m ((a string) (b integer)) ...) and (defmethod m ((a string) &optional something-else)) which do you call for (m "foo" 42) ? 18:41:51 Xach: so they had to add a restriction to the language to help with code completion tools? that seems hard to believe 18:42:04 Xach: well, that tooling problem occures with &key args already 18:42:37 -!- wolfgang42 [~quassel@wikipedia/Wolfgang42] has left #lisp 18:42:44 ltbarcly_: no, given multimethods and &optional and &rest what you're asking for just hasn't been specified. 18:42:45 segv-: in that case it's ambiguous, but optional arguments can be ambiguous outside of generic functions, such as when you mix them with flags 18:43:14 ltbarcly_: but they're not. (defun foo (a &optional b &key c)) is well defined 18:43:18 ltbarcly_: I'm not saying "they" did that, but that supporting it is not an umambiguous better situation. 18:44:10 segv-: I'm sorry, I meant &rest and &key 18:45:09 ltbarcly_: (a &rest bar &key c) is also well defined. (a &key c &rest b) is not valid 18:45:13 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-hqxldxhzzxfqptyj] has joined #lisp 18:45:58 alright, thanks for your answers 18:46:00 ltbarcly_: you could probably come up with sane rules for disabmiguating the kinds of methods you have in mind, i personally doubt it'd be a big win, but i'd be really interested in seeing the code if you feel like doing it 18:46:22 really, with the MOP you could define your own gfs alongside the standard ones, if you want to experiment 18:46:37 (it would require a decent chunk of code, but the mop can be molded to do what you're asking for) 18:46:38 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:08 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:47:22 are two generic functions defined in different packages considered different functions entirely? 18:47:32 segv-: but not portably, right? I mean because of the spec: 7.6.4 Congruent Lambda-lists for all Methods of a Generic Function 18:47:41 ltbarcly_: your question is a bit wrong, but yes, they have distinct names 18:47:45 ltbarcly_: yes 18:48:08 foo:bar and quux:bar are not related in any way 18:48:11 well that makes it better 18:48:19 nowhere_man: yes and no. 7.6.4 relates to all methods of a standard generic function. the pieces of the MOP you'd need to do this aren't part of the standard 18:48:23 at least two writers of two libraries won't have conflicts 18:48:34 nowhere_man: as long as (not (eq 'foo:bar 'quux:bar)) :) 18:49:02 well, until you try to :use both libraries 18:49:20 It's easy to resolve in favor of one, the other, or neither, in that situation. 18:49:22 ltbarcly_: you can use :shadow for that 18:49:33 or :use selectively 18:49:40 Or :shadowing-import selectively. 18:50:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:50:16 I'm writing a compiler that uses CL as the target, it would be very confusing if you imported two libraries, and the method names on instances were different because you had to shadow the method name for one of the classes imported 18:51:00 importing is different from using. 18:51:08 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 18:51:32 -!- denman52 [~Denman52@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: denman52] 18:51:53 Xach: I just mean, if you look at the syntax of many languages, >> x = new X(), x.append(y) might turn into >> x = new X(), x.shadowed_append(y) 18:52:02 which is just too bizarre to do to people 18:52:40 Xach: I didn't mean CL import, I meant whatever equivalent in the source language 18:52:54 ltbarcly_: the ruby guys seem to be super super happy with that (which is probably a point against it) 18:53:43 segv-: I asked the ruby guys why rake produces corrupt output when doing a parallel build, they told me "corrupted output when printing from multiple processes is par for the course" 18:53:48 Well, if you don't know the semantics of packages or CLOS, targeting it with some language that has very different semantics for superifically similar features will be pain. 18:53:51 by processes they meant threads 18:53:57 which just makes it more funny 18:54:33 ltbarcly_: because it's old enough to have been written when world was less homogenous 18:54:35 it turns out that fixing Rake takes about 5 lines of code and can be done entirely within my biuld file 18:55:29 Xach: I agree, and in the long run I'm going to have to write my own system to deal with classes, I just hoped to get away with using clos for longer before I ran into fundamentally different semantics 18:56:03 I have 20 things left to implement, it would be nice to be able to get around to those before having to go back and redo classes 18:56:22 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 so anyway, the solution to fixing rake was to throw a mutex around the printing (not rocket science), but then I was told in #ruby that using a mutex would be "super slow" and would make my builds take "20% longer" 18:57:18 -!- papyrus [~papyrus@119.18.126.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:32 ltbarcly_: you're going for a message-passing single-dispatch object model, that's fundamentally different from clos. 18:57:47 can you get away with just not allowing methods with different number of required args? 18:57:58 segv-: for the time being I think I can 18:58:32 but will that fix the shadowing issue? 18:58:53 it's totally orthagonal to the shadowing issue. 18:59:01 the shadowing issue is worse to me 18:59:03 I don't think there's a shadowing issue. 18:59:04 unfortunately 18:59:10 Xach: how so? 18:59:19 (really, i have no idea what the shadowing issue is) 18:59:45 papyrus [~papyrus@119.18.126.21] has joined #lisp 18:59:56 if you :use two packages, and both define a generic-function with the same name, but also the same lambda list, does it allow them to coexist somehow? 18:59:57 ltbarcly_: Just a guess. 19:00:07 or does one need to be shadowed 19:00:21 tactile75 [~tactile75@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:29 ltbarcly_: What action in your source language would map to doing that in CL? 19:00:48 having a class in file A and a class in file B and wanting to use both classes in file C 19:01:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-237-111.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 19:01:16 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:29 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:30 How do classes and files relate in the source language? 19:01:34 sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:35 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:01:35 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:01:43 lets say they are both 3rd party libraries 19:02:10 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:13 in fact, one is an html library, and one is an xml library, and both define the method xpath 19:02:35 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03:03 ltbarcly_: do they have to do that in the same package? 19:03:10 no 19:03:19 but you are now trying to use both libraries in your package 19:03:24 then there's no problem since they don't define the same generic function xpath. 19:03:43 but you would have to shadow one of the xpath symbols in your package 19:03:46 ltbarcly_: then you will, as you would in any other language, has to explicitly choose if you want html:xpath or xml:xpath 19:04:04 no you wouldn't, the choice would depend on the instance you called the method on 19:04:05 ltbarcly_: or just refer to both of them using the fully qualified name 19:04:30 parsed_xml.xpath() vs parsed_html.xpath(), no problems there 19:04:48 ltbarcly_: well, if you're mapping to clos you have problems 19:04:54 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:57 i don't think you can postpone writing your own object system. 19:05:03 yep 19:05:04 :( 19:05:10 that's just not at all how clos works. 19:05:10 ok, thanks for the help though! 19:05:16 No MOP tricks to apply here? 19:05:38 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-61-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:42 nyef: I don't think the problem is with clos, it's with packages and the fact that generic functions can't be merged 19:06:14 ltbarcly_: the "problem" is you want clos to act like a message passing object system, and it's just not. 19:07:05 segv-: well, hypothetically if you have two generic functions defined with the same lambda list, you should be able to combine them into one generic function, right? 19:07:11 ltbarcly_: it's really not about merging of generic functions. it's about how to choose which method (exactly what code) should be called. 19:07:14 maybe not in common lisp, but I don't see any reason why it's wrong 19:07:34 yea, but if the methods are specialized on the classes from the libraries where they came from, it would work correctly 19:07:58 ltbarcly_: more or less, but there are assumptions, and how things like :around/:before methods play in, that will break if you assume the receiver of the message is the only thing used to select the method to call. 19:08:21 true 19:08:57 at least building a class system isn't that hard 19:09:02 as long as I don't mind it sucking for awhile 19:09:46 parsed_xml and parsed_html should have some base class in message passing object system. so one can name a generic function as base-class-name-xpath and then specialize it for parsed_xml and parsed_html 19:10:15 hi nyef & segv- :) 19:10:26 i gotta say, but of course do what you want, that if there are still 20 more interesting things on your todo list, worrying about how 3rd party libraries will interact with each other in some randomly thought up piece of code, may be a little premature. 19:11:01 do you actually need aParsedXML.xpath(these,args) and aParsedHTML.xpath(another,argument,list) to work today? 19:11:01 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 19:11:26 segv-: I ran into this as I started to implement the standard library 19:11:36 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:12:45 ciao fe[nl]ix. 19:13:42 ciao :) 19:14:21 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 askatasuna [~askatasun@47-164-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 ltbarcly_: so you want to implement message passing in CL, right? 19:15:21 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:56 -!- seangrove [~user@187.157.195.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:16:38 ltbarcly_: why not (defgeneric xpath (instance &allow-other-keys)) ? 19:17:10 segv-: with enough MOP wizardry you can turn clos into a message-based system 19:17:24 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 19:17:50 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:12 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:18:13 i was looking for a way to do atomic operations on variables the other day to implement a monotonic counter or some such 19:18:22 Heck, you can probably do so purely with a single funcallable-instance class and some macros. 19:18:37 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 19:18:46 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 19:19:19 Or, really, just use unique selectors per number of arguments (like Smalltalk) and only specialize the first argument. 19:19:33 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815066.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:47 nyef: smalltalk has optional args right? 19:20:38 No, it doesn't. 19:20:46 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:20:53 Each argument is preceded by a chunk of the method name. 19:21:19 So the array reader method is "at:", while the writer is "at:put:". 19:21:50 So you'd end up with something like (defmethod |at:put:| (array index value) ...) 19:22:03 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:22:11 jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:13 sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:23 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:25 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:43 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:25:53 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:05 nyef: that's a good idea I think 19:26:22 a few macros would probably make that pretty workable 19:26:49 arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 19:28:42 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:28:58 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:29:11 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:29:44 well, at least in the smalltalk case you could do it no problem, in the python/ruby case it isn't quite as simple 19:29:56 ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:53 -!- sdemarre [~serge@158.83-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:53 ok, premature optimization question, does the performance of generic function dispatch depend in any way on the number of generic functions defined? 19:31:17 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:31:20 That I couldn't comment on. My brief use of that-other-python was years ago, and I've never cared to learn Ruby. 19:31:42 And again, that I couldn't comment on, I don't tend to use CLOS for anything speed-sensitive. 19:31:42 ltbarcly_: depends. it's easy enough to generate a few thosand methods, test it. 19:32:28 Well, speed-critical, really. Speed-sensitive is a lot easier to deal with, as there's usually something else that can be optimized, like the database access or something. 19:32:29 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:32:42 actually I think my idea won't generate enough more to stress it 19:32:44 ltbarcly: I would not expect the number of generic functions to be significant, since dispatch is within a single generic function. 19:32:56 You might be confusing generic functions and methods. 19:33:15 Zhivago: In this case I have it straight I think 19:34:57 I think it should be possible to write a macro that deals with enough of my situation, for example if I pass one argument, the generic function can be name manged to say so, and again at call time I can have a macro that does the same mangling 19:35:25 and similarly for &optional, &rest, etc 19:35:37 well, &rest is trickier I guess 19:37:05 What is your situation? 19:37:07 At that point, you might consider looking into using a custom generic function that can do that dispatch more directly. 19:37:20 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 19:37:28 in the &optional case I would just generate all the methods to generate in the macro one version specialized for all the argument combinations, which means for a case where there are 5 optional arguments it would generate 6 methods 19:37:32 that's not too bad 19:37:51 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 19:38:05 You might also consider compile-macros, but be aware that they are not necessarily applied. 19:38:13 er, compiler-macros. 19:38:49 yea, if a compiler-macro weren't applied it would mean that the wrong function is called, which would be bad 19:39:02 That shouldn't be the case. 19:39:26 I would be violating the contract for compiler macros by not having a function with the same effect as the macro with the same name 19:39:35 You'd keep the general generic function, and then use the compiler-macro to rewrite various invocations to more specialized implementations. 19:40:13 the generic generic function is the thing I can't really have, because of shadowing in the case where that function is defined in multiple libraries 19:40:48 Um, why does that matter? It has a single identity, much like your compiler-macro. 19:40:52 unless the slow-path were a call to an even more generic generic function, which did the dispatch 19:41:24 Zhivago: how do you mean single identity 19:41:41 A generic function is a discrete entity, like any other function. 19:42:10 There's a single symbol to identify it -- if you shadow that, then it's shadowed. 19:42:39 A compiler-macro upon that function name would also be shadowed. 19:42:51 I guess I could do this with a compiler-macro like (DISPATCH-TO-METHOD instance methodname lambda-list) 19:43:09 and if it can sort it out at compiler time it swaps in the right thing, and if it can't there is a function that can do it at runtime 19:43:22 Something like that, yes. 19:43:23 Zhivago: ltbarcly_ does not mean shadow in the cl:shadow sense of the word 19:43:45 Then what does he mean? I still think he's muddling gfs and methods. 19:43:57 I think I did mean it in the cl:shadow sense 19:44:37 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:44:38 again, if I have library "xml" and library "html", and there is a class in each library that defines the method (xpath (thing query)) 19:45:04 then I want to :use both of those libraries, one or the other is going to have to have its xpath generic function shadowed 19:45:05 right? 19:45:33 You're mixing up methods and gfs :) 19:46:02 I don't think so, in both of those packages the method is going to implicetely create a generic function 19:46:04 If two packages define a gf with the same name, then you won't be able to import both into a third package. 19:46:15 Then talk about the gf. 19:46:19 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:36 so right, one or the other gets shadowed, which means if I have a compiler-macro in each of those packages one or the other gets shadowed 19:46:46 But you don't need to import them -- you can just say xml:xpath or html:xpath. 19:47:00 Sure, and that shadowing is correct. 19:47:01 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 it is correct 19:47:08 Because those functions have nothing to do with each other. 19:47:14 Good :) 19:47:20 so I am writing a complier, so method calls look like x.method() 19:47:21 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:38 What are you compiling to? 19:47:39 and it would be very confusing and unanticipated if suddenly, due to shadowing, method names changed 19:47:45 I'm compiling to CL 19:47:55 Well, then you need to consider the package name. 19:48:14 Your method call actually should look like x.package_method(), perhaps. 19:48:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:48:22 right, but that is ugly as sin right? 19:48:48 Well, there are prettier ways to do it. 19:49:07 in the end I think it needs to be instance.method_name(args) 19:49:10 but you'll need to solve the problem of working out which package:method you're talking about. 19:49:49 I think I can probably use the compiler-macro idea, but one level up, where the compiler macro builds the method call for you 19:49:50 Or there's the rather dreadful possibility of hijacking the pprint dispatch table to make the methods print differently, and the readtable to make them read differently... 19:50:25 and if it can't figure out the method call at compile time, it will sort it out at runtime 19:50:30 You might also consider that perhaps generic functions aren't what you want. 19:50:54 But that will depend on the semantics of your source language. 19:51:01 Zhivago: I need to think this through, but I really appreciate your guys help in understanding how this all works 19:52:13 Good luck. :) 19:52:41 hmm, I wonder if I could make the x.package_method() idea, but sort it out in cl so that my source language doesn't see the mangling 19:53:06 I expect so, depending on the semantics of the source language. 19:53:48 as in, have a compiler macro that takes (call-method instance methodname lambda-list), looks at the instance's type, find's the right package, and changes it to: (package:methodname instance lambda-list) 19:54:15 and of course if it doesn't have the ability to determine the type, do it via a function at runtime 19:54:38 tolk` [~user@host214.190-138-222.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 Or you could use something like an import statement in your language to make sure you know which object you're referring to at compile time. 19:55:53 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:57 Shinmera: I don't think it will always be possible to tell, imagine a function that takes an argument and calls a method on it 19:57:04 -!- tolk [~user@host50.190-136-124.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:46 In that case you have to determine it at run time anyway, unless you start inlining function calls. 19:57:47 anything that obscures the type from the type inference in the compiler will make it have to be a runtime fixup I think 19:58:02 but I'm ok with that 19:58:08 -!- tolk` is now known as tolk 19:58:13 -!- `26_ is now known as `26 19:58:56 in sbcl I think I could probably use defoptimizer to hook this into the type inference system 19:59:00 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@47-164-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:59:34 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:00:36 oh, and of course 95% of the time it will be unambiguous anyway, so in those cases it's just an easy fixup 20:01:33 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:02:19 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 20:04:04 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 20:17:57 yakov_ [~yakov@95-28-17-104.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:22:27 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:22:47 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:02 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:25:34 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-176-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:16 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:27:38 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:31:06 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-13-20.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 Ah, ~{ and ~#[~:;, truly a gift for those who don't want to use WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING and LOOP to format their lists for output. 20:32:43 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815066.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:34:35 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-213-230.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:28 nyef: oh you're just lazy. i mean what's unclear about "~@[&~{~a~^&~}~]~@[&value=~a~]" ? 20:38:04 clear as mud. 20:38:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:56 ... I'm not going to argue clarity, I'm going to argue that that little snippet doesn't do what I need. 20:40:38 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:41:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:35 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:00 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:50 -!- funhaver [~user@c-98-236-30-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:32 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:56 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:49:56 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:40 -!- milosn_ is now known as milosn 20:52:11 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:52:20 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@intertwingled.net] has quit [Quit: I always have coffee when I watch radar!] 20:55:20 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:34 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:56:38 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:01:29 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:03:02 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-220-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:05:38 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:08:29 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:10:04 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 21:11:18 -!- arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:34 -!- BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:07 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:32 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:17:35 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 21:18:28 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:11 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:42 setmeaway [setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 21:19:43 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 21:20:41 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 21:20:43 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:54 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:24 maxter_ [~maxter@sundownness.lullaby.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:43 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:59 maxter__ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:08 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:57 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 21:25:48 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 21:26:23 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 21:26:59 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@sundownness.lullaby.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:27:17 Besides, it's simple enough to write a format string parser and with-output-to-string/print/princ/prin1 generator 21:27:38 Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:27:47 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:28 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:33 francogrex [~user@91.182.191.141] has joined #lisp 21:34:15 does anybody know how ram and the # of available threads affect clos performance? 21:35:25 ubikation: that will depend on the implementation you're using 21:36:21 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 21:38:29 madnificent: which implementations are influenced by those features? 21:38:44 But basically, the effects will be null. 21:39:02 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:10 Ie. calling methods or adding a class will be as fast whether you have 8 GB of RAM or 192 GB. 21:39:22 And similarly, whether you have one thread or 1024. 21:39:47 pjb: ah, thank you. 21:40:22 clisp which can be compiled without thraeds might then avoid locks, but your program will have to be structured differently, so it's not obvious there will be any gain of performance. 21:40:35 -!- maxter__ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:40:35 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-017-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:40:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:23 bitonic [~user@aggm54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:20 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:49:08 ehu` [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 21:49:14 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:50:10 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:10 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206214.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:38 pjb: i seem to recall that nikodemus's work included the removal of a global lock regarding class hierarchies. in which case having a gazilion threads around would have an effect. 21:51:45 ubikation: i don't know how the various implementations implement CLOS. it's rather technical and it has never been something that stood in my way. 21:53:51 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:28 madnificent: thanks! 21:55:43 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:53 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-134-103.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:01:28 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 22:02:00 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:48 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-189-140.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:49 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.191.141] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:24 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 22:09:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-61-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09:25 timor [~timor@port-92-195-115-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:24 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-33-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:15 hu.dwim.walker quesition: walking a progn containing defuns doesn't seem to register their definitions for the rest of the progn. Is there a way to handle global defun/defmacro forms so their definitions are available for the rest of the walk? 22:11:21 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-61-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:33 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-220-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:10 -!- bitonic [~user@aggm54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:19:32 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:22:11 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:01 -!- algae [~algae@akoostix.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:09 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 22:30:25 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:32:00 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:33:54 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:14 timor: the standard doesn't mandate that. 22:35:50 timor: the only compilation time effect of defun is to note that the symbol denotes a function. The body of the function will be available only at run-time. 22:36:43 Besides, a code walker doesn't need to call functions, so why would you need to register their definition? 22:37:15 For macros, you need an eval-when to let the functions be defined at macroexpantion time. 22:37:40 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:16 madnificent: you mean, before he removed the global lock. But after, it should not be slowed down anymore. 22:38:24 the bigger problem is that the "top-level" defmacros don't seem to work 22:38:30 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:54 it gives a warning about looking at define-macro, but i could not find anything that would help 22:39:11 (eval-when (:compile-topleve) (defun f-for-m (x) `(list ,x))) #|new toplevel form:|# (defmacro m (z) (f z)) (m 42) 22:39:31 +l 22:40:22 Now, I don't know how you use the code walker, and whether it keeps track of such toplevel environment, according to the various phases or successive forms. 22:41:31 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-189-140.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:22 that would be nice, because it gives very nice warnings about undefined functions inside a walked body, but unfortunately for above stated reasons that also applies to functions that have been defined via defun right before their usage 22:42:26 -!- TMA [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has left #lisp 22:43:15 pjb: yes. however, i don't know how it is in other implementations than SBCL 22:43:21 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.134] has joined #lisp 22:46:37 -!- prxq__ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e176.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:53:12 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-hqxldxhzzxfqptyj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:51 -!- jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle_] 22:54:10 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:54:34 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:56:39 jarm [~jarm@201.99.5.73] has joined #lisp 22:57:02 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:48 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:00:06 -!- ehu` [~ehu@089144206180.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:00:18 I'm really confused. In http://aleph0.info/clos/clos-test.lisp do fun-inc-value-class and met-inc-value-class have the same definition? I can't seem to notice an obvious difference... 23:02:13 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815066.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:43 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:47 Well, I think that's the point. 23:04:43 -!- cscorp [~csorp@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 23:06:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:42 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:08:19 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:47 ASau [~user@p5797F401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:10:06 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-115-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:10:50 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:46 ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:07 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815066.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15:25 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:16:53 -!- papyrus [~papyrus@119.18.126.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:17:11 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:17:51 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:37 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:09 anybody know offhand where hunchentoot as installed gets the made-with-lisp image? 23:21:17 paddymahoney [~patrick@24-246-29-188.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:32 What is made-with-lisp? 23:24:15 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:32 http://thoughtcrime.biz:42420/ 23:24:57 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:28:43 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dc803.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:15 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 23:29:18 The original site that hosted the logo doesn't exist anymore 23:29:30 but it's in saved on archive.org 23:29:39 can't remember the url right now though 23:29:40 I assume it's a rewrite rule but can't find it 23:29:46 are there bindings for using ncurse, gtk, sdl with common lisp ? 23:30:04 to draw some graphics 23:30:18 elkng: yes 23:30:40 JuanDaugherty: http://web.archive.org/web/20051230195148/http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.html 23:30:54 JuanDaugherty: oh wait, you mean where it pulls it locally? 23:31:03 JuanDaugherty: Can't tell you that, I'm afraid 23:31:38 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 23:31:49 Shinmera_, ty! 23:33:01 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dc803.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:33:27 Xach: it wasn't just yes,no yestion you know ? 23:34:22 it's plainly visible in the current sources, was looking at old ones 23:36:03 Xach: I mean it wasn't rhetorical question 23:36:23 elkng: You'll have to get more specific in your line of questioning, then. 23:38:56 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.3] 23:40:19 Xach: are you a philosopher or what, isn't it normal to ask more wide open questions here to get some concrete answers ? 23:42:59 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:01 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-61-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:43:25 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:45 *Xach* loses desire to help 23:44:21 elkng: http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/ ... 6th post down, gtk3 access via cffi appaerently works 23:44:32 -!- jarm [~jarm@201.99.5.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:37 I want to draw something in console using ncurse is it possible ? 23:45:53 *holycow* looses desire to help 23:46:01 lol 23:46:04 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-13-20.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:47:46 jarm [~jarm@201.99.5.73] has joined #lisp 23:48:05 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-13-20.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:48:54 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-71-48.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:37 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.216.121] has joined #lisp 23:50:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-4.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:50:51 ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:18 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:43 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:17 -!- echo-area [~user@111.196.0.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:54 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp