00:00:03 I think I am. Can you enlighten me a bit? 00:00:12 did you bind the value with let first? or was it a special variable? 00:00:17 It is different than what I might see in C/C++. 00:00:27 something like (defun foo (x) (setf x 9)) and then (let ((y '(4 5))) (foo y) y) returning 9 instead of '(4 5) 00:00:31 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:04 whereas (defun foo (x) (setf (cdr x) 9)) (let ((y (cons 4 5))) (foo y) y) => (4 . 9) 00:01:53 that's not a good example. something with scope, though 00:02:36 and you're thinking of foo "copying" the list in the first case, or something 00:02:37 So, it didn't adjust it because I just passing in a copy? Not the real memory location to be changed? 00:02:45 you don't pass a copy 00:02:48 right, like that 00:02:49 is wrong 00:03:08 you're modifying the value of a variable, not the value itself 00:03:16 Ah! 00:03:41 there is no copying without an actual copying on your part, like with a copy-list call 00:03:59 -!- danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@109.226.13.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:04 I see, this is different. 00:04:08 Ok. 00:04:20 I'm used to pass by copy or pass by pointer. 00:04:29 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.13.33] has joined #lisp 00:04:45 "pointer" as a concept doesn't work well with lisp. 00:04:49 no need to worry about pointers ... the lisp system takes care of that dirty work for you. 00:05:57 don't worry about "pointers", just focus on values and (scoped) variables 00:06:17 (setf (cdr x) 9) alters the value of x, while (setf x 9) alters the variable, so to speak 00:07:09 Is "nth" compatable in the same way? 00:07:20 compatible with what? 00:07:43 acting as a car/cdr combination to get the memory location. 00:07:54 don't think of "memory locations" 00:08:03 and i don't know what you mean. 00:08:28 i think he is asking if nth is destructive or not... 00:08:38 I forget myself... 00:08:40 Ryan_Burnside: nth is an accessor as well 00:08:45 let ryan decide what they meant 00:09:17 Ok, that is what I meant. :) Can I use nth to change a list cell when the list is passed as a parameter. 00:09:27 yes 00:09:29 setf nth changes the value, yes 00:09:32 unless the list is NIL 00:09:34 Good. 00:09:58 I'll play a bit with this now. 00:10:02 Thank you guys,. 00:10:40 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 00:11:04 Ryan_Burnside: really it's not different from C, if you have a function foo taking a parameter int x, and you do x = 9 in the function body, and you call y = 7; foo(y); printf("%d",y); of course you wouldn't expect it to print an 8 00:17:26 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 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[~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:53 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:11:33 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:17:02 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.132.83.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:53 Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-66-53.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:28 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 04:21:30 Anyone mind helping me understand why my macro only assigns the turtle-y value? If so: http://paste.ofcode.org/gD5zugvaQwJxV2s8rExpDb 04:21:48 This is for my LOGO project... 04:22:01 you only return the last form 04:22:15 but it shouldn't be a macro in any case 04:23:32 and even if you return those two sets, your turt form will be evaluated twice 04:23:42 Oh... The idea was to set the turtle's x and y values. like so (200 200 mike-the-turtle) 04:23:52 er 04:24:00 you don't need macros to do that 04:24:00 (MV 200 200 mike-the-turtle) 04:24:22 (MV mike-the-turtle 200 200) would make more sense 04:25:35 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:26:16 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:07 I was being pushed towards macros when I asked somebody else. 04:29:39 that somebody else didn't know what he was talking about 04:30:17 (defun mv (turtle x y) (setf (turtle-x turtle) x (turtle-y turtle) y) turtle) 04:30:40 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:33:49 and there's no sense in having it be a structure, make it a class instead 04:33:51 Well, that works. 04:34:04 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:01 Bike, why does it need to return turtle at the end? 04:35:05 I'm trying to follow... 04:35:36 it doesn't, i just thought that would be nicer than returning y 04:35:44 it would rather return a hare, but has only turtles 04:36:02 if you want it to return (values) or "HOORAY! YOU MOVED!" go for it 04:36:03 Ah I see. 04:36:15 You are simply adding a sort of debug printout. 04:36:21 Demonstrating the new values. 04:36:37 no, it's not a debug, nor a printout 04:36:49 Well the evaluation of the new values. 04:36:50 it's useful when passing around the turtle 04:36:58 Ok, right. 04:37:39 basically it's a function you have for side-effects so any return is a matter of nicety 04:38:23 Thanks for the help, small steps in the right direction for me. I plan to make Lisp my main language. It is interesting. 04:38:57 Hopefully I'll be able to contribute more to open source libraries. 04:39:08 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:16 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:40:42 Hollow words though until I can prove myself with functioning well written code. :) 04:41:11 -!- harish [~harish@bb121-6-104-29.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:43:39 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:19 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:03 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:14 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 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[~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:28 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 05:16:39 Hi all 05:16:50 oi 05:17:11 I just published the specification for a binary format to the IETF: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thierry-bulk-02 05:17:22 it's basically binary s-expressions 05:17:27 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:33 -!- harish [~harish@bb121-6-104-29.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:18:11 It 403's 05:18:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:19:04 Why is it interesting? 05:19:04 and a few simple languages are described for it: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=thierry-bulk&activedrafts=on&sort= 05:19:32 I don't about being interesting, but I hope people will give me feedback about it 05:20:00 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 05:20:05 preferably criticism, so I have a chance of making something useful out of it 05:20:31 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has joined #lisp 05:20:37 What benefit does it give over bson? 05:21:41 namespaces have an identity, so you can mix elements from different sources without any risk of name clash, for one 05:22:29 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:22:40 one of the use cases is a binary equivalent of XML 05:23:47 Ok, although without risk of name clash, you can't merge elements from different sources. 05:24:05 I assume that you mean that it is hard to do accidentally. 05:24:10 I thought you said it was about binary s-exps not xml 05:24:53 Zhivago: no, it's not hard, it's supposed to be impossible (namespaces are identified by a UUID) 05:25:41 PuercoPop: yeah, one goal is to be able to do tings in a simpler way than xml, but one use case is representing a document structure 05:26:55 So, you risk a clash if the same UUID is re-used or otherwise collides. 05:27:03 yeah 05:27:32 but even then, there are a few provision against the clash 05:28:55 Sounds like a good idea. 05:29:13 Is the layout well defined? 05:29:36 That's one of the criticisms I have of json -- the order is not well defined for objects, so you need to normalize prior to hashing. 05:30:34 I think it is, basically you have atoms that start with a marker byte 05:30:50 forms are enclosed in matching marker bytes 05:31:08 0x01 is ( and 0xO2 is ) 05:31:48 a few atoms have a special parsing rule, mostly words from 8 to 128 bits and arrays 05:32:02 the rest is "references", couples of bytes 05:32:14 first for namespace, second for name in it 05:32:29 and there are forms to associate a namespace byte to a UUID 05:33:02 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:39 (I too get a 403 on the HTML version right now, but the plain text is still there: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-thierry-bulk-02.txt ) 05:36:51 Your original url works for me. 05:38:36 yeah, works for me too again 05:38:55 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] 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quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:55:42 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:42 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 05:57:12 Zhivago: now that I take a closer look at the BSON spec, I'd say BULK has a lot of advantages 05:57:50 first and foremost that I'm not stuck in a world of mappings between names and values 05:59:12 Essentially, you are. 05:59:41 There's no way to get out of that, because any query upon the data structure is a name for the values it produces. 05:59:58 no, if your message or document is a series of numbers, you just pack numbers one after another 06:00:05 no names, no mapping 06:00:59 So what? 06:01:24 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 06:01:55 so instead of having to store { 1: 32, 2: 25, 3: -6 }, I just store (32 25 -6) 06:02:19 Which is equivalent. 06:02:34 semantically, yes, in the bytes it takes, not really 06:02:42 So, you haven't escaped anything -- you've just made some things implicit. 06:03:13 that's one way of looking at it, yes 06:03:18 it's sexps 06:03:46 And the same applies to bson -- it doesn't need to encode array indices explicitly. 06:04:23 not if you use the array type 06:04:35 Anyhow, I suggest that your main competitor is bson -- so I'd carefully and honestly compare the two. 06:04:55 Sure, as opposed to (array 1 2 3) in sexp land. :) 06:05:08 Which then requires both ends to agree on what array implies about the rest. 06:05:22 yeah, I should probably encode some data in the two and compare 06:05:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:06:40 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 06:06:40 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 06:06:40 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:07:42 Zhivago: true, but in this case, I hope to provide a few compact primitives 06:08:03 but parties still need to agree on the layout 06:08:13 veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:23 In which case, you're moving closer and closer to bson. 06:08:34 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 -!- veer is now known as Guest37538 06:09:45 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:10:15 I keep a few killer features, among which the fact that there is no limit in size anywhere 06:10:36 not for the document, not for the lists, not for byte arrays 06:11:00 but I suspect I should write a JSON namespace 06:12:24 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 06:15:00 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 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[~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:50:48 Wolfor [d9c5e70c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.197.231.12] has joined #lisp 09:51:13 maxm: We're looking for a test harness. There are just too many to choose from. :) Can you tell why did you choose Stefil? 09:52:18 At first glance lift is in every way better. Less dependencies, has random tests, can be configured to invoke debugger on failed tests like Stefil. 09:55:36 -!- Wolfor [d9c5e70c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.197.231.12] has quit [Client Quit] 09:58:29 yakov [~yakov@lagarm-2.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:05:45 stardiviner [~stardivin@60.176.186.88] has joined #lisp 10:06:02 -!- capitaomorte [~joaot@mail3.siscog.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:25 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:13 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:16:04 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.149.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:17:31 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-233-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:21:35 attila_lendvai 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has joined #lisp 11:36:31 -!- perpet [~perpet@c83-249-227-245.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:30 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 11:37:38 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:41:23 coreytrevor [~ma@84.39.117.57] has joined #lisp 11:43:26 seg [~user@198.23.71.75-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:58 ASau` [~user@p5797EFD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:45 newb trying to learn how to read lisp better. Why does (if '() 'i-am-true 'i-am-false) evaluate as i-am-false? does if act as else if naturally, and as () is an empty list, continues to the third options in the list? 11:45:06 () is NIL, which is "false" 11:45:10 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@60.176.186.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:16 so the else clause gets evaluated 11:45:23 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96FA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:33 Shinmera: so if does act as an elif if given more than 2 parameters? 11:45:51 (if clause true-form else-form) 11:45:59 Shinmera: thank you very much 11:46:29 if you want multiple statements for true or else, you need to use a progn or the when and unless equivalents. 11:47:33 Shinmera: thanks. I was just trying to fully understand an example in a book. Thanks again 11:47:52 -!- seg [~user@198.23.71.75-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has left #lisp 11:48:46 No problem. 11:54:15 recently i found an interesting project which allowed to display text, pictures and another interesting things in a web browser, and also allowed to change individual dom elements from the repl 11:54:22 but i can't find it anymore 11:54:31 does anybody know the project name? 12:01:04 What do you mean by "display text, pictures and other interesting things in a web browser"? 12:01:53 i typed specific commands in the repl, and there was a connected web browser with some kind of ajax hocus-pocus and it displayed what was instructed 12:02:47 So a web server with PUSH notifications? 12:03:00 something like that 12:03:21 I looked into that about a month ago, but couldn't find anything really promising, so I can't say I know which project you're talking about 12:03:23 i don't remember the exact mechanism 12:05:34 it was pretty cool. the drawback was that it was one-way only, so there were no possibility to "message" back into the repl 12:07:02 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:16 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:08:38 messaging back always happens through HTTP AJAX calls anyway. 12:11:13 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:11:14 what i'm trying to do in the long run is that i have a web ui with a common lisp backend with two-way communications 12:11:28 is there a project which allows that already? 12:11:53 There's a hunchentoot addon/plugin for PUSH 12:12:01 but I don't know if it works well/at all 12:15:07 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.104.2] has joined #lisp 12:15:07 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.104.2] has quit [Changing host] 12:15:07 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 12:15:54 Shinmera: do you happen to know its name? 12:16:02 No, I'd have to go google again 12:18:58 -!- pranavrc 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[~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:21 wrong chan 13:33:30 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:30 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:33:49 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-pjgtdabdmpgflnky] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:35:26 -!- harish_ [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:37 add^_ [~user@m5-241-132-120.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:37:25 ryankarason [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 13:37:34 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:41 G'morning all. 13:38:49 cscorp [~csorp@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:18 mornin' 13:44:17 can someone refresh me on how to leave a message for when a person returns? (and will it also work in #sbcl or only #lisp?) 13:44:35 or point me to rtfm 13:45:33 danlentz: you should specify in what sort of application. is this a website, an application in slime, or something in some other framework? 13:45:49 no, here, in irc 13:46:39 danlentz: /msg minion help memos 13:47:27 at some point i should print pout fl-irc to see how all the bot magic works, but for the moment just looking for the easy answers.../ 13:47:34 could I be pointed to a #! sbcl example that loads systems with ASDF etc? I already know how to then parse the command line, but I only know how to load systems with quicklisp and I want something lighter/faster 13:47:35 thanks 13:48:37 is that also in #sbcl? 13:48:47 y never mind 13:49:47 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:38 dim: there are a few solutions for running scripts faster. you could try something like https://github.com/rpav/ScriptL 13:51:04 thanks, having a look 13:51:18 I guess the full solution is to prepare a self-contained binary image? 13:52:41 dim: if you want everything to be contained in one image, you may want to load the more common libraries and then dump the core. you can use that core as a starting point for your libraries. as i've heard, you can make linux share the unchanged memory pages of the several applications. i find the cores to become rather big on SBCL (CCL and CLISP seem to be better suited for such a thing). 13:53:27 s/starting point for your libraries/starting point for your scripts/ 13:54:35 I tried cl-buildapp and when it works got images of ~40MB 13:54:45 I think that would still be acceptable in my case 13:55:00 the problem is that when using uiop I coulnd't get an image at all 13:55:15 and I did use uiop for getenv and getting the CLI args, etc 13:56:09 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:17 s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:40 harish_ [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:57:02 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:01:00 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.120.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01:38 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 14:01:46 davazp [~user@92.251.188.143.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 14:03:16 -!- harish_ [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:19 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:04:10 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:18 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 14:06:58 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:07:42 mmm asdf:load-system slowly recompiles the world for me 14:07:50 might not be what I want to use actually 14:08:45 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 dim: in which setup? 14:11:01 just a quick test 14:11:17 I just typed in (asdf:load-system :pgloader) at the prompt 14:12:53 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:20:04 harish_ [~harish@124.197.76.193] has joined #lisp 14:22:13 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:23:02 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:33 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:28:29 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:30:15 dim: doesn't it cache the compilation when you've restarted your lisp system and try to load it again? 14:31:09 I'm back to just using quicklisp 14:31:16 it's not that important (yet, at least) 14:31:36 _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 -!- harish_ [~harish@124.197.76.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32:51 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:36:27 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:39:07 dim: doesn't quicklisp use load-system in the background? 14:40:05 of course it does 14:41:18 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:12 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 14:42:42 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:39 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:47 yes it does, but it knows how to manage its cache 14:44:54 in a different way I'd suppose 14:45:03 like, different location for the cached files 14:46:09 it doesn't change where asdf puts fasls 14:46:48 perpet [~perpet@c83-249-227-245.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:46:58 ok 14:47:00 ehu` [~ehu@089144206214.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 14:47:01 and note that you can have compressed images on SBCL 14:47:22 I need to have a look at that, did you try recently with using uiop? 14:47:48 try what? 14:47:57 and i pretend uiop does not exist 14:49:10 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206207.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:16 so what do you use to portably do quit (or exit) and getenv and get command line arguments? 14:49:29 mmm that said, if I build an SBCL image I don't need to care much about portability, do I? 14:49:43 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 14:50:10 i'd rather #+sbcl(quit) than use something associated with ASDF 14:50:14 time ./pgloader.lisp --help is using quicklisp to load the systems I need and is taking about 33s on my testing VM here, not cool 14:50:23 wow. 14:50:25 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:28 that's a pretty strong statement 14:50:41 makes life easier 14:50:54 resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:04 with asdf itself, i don't have a choice, but here, i can safely use something else 14:51:11 do you use cl-buildapp? any idea of building images (compressed or not) for MacOSX and Windows using it? 14:51:36 i just call sb-ext:save-list-and-die 14:52:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:23 fair enough I guess, I like how cl-buildapp provides for a "clean" image as it starts from scratch, though 14:53:06 I wouldn't feel comfortable just giving away the image I happened to be using at the time I fancy releasing 14:53:28 I hope building in a debian VM will cover all the linux base? 14:53:34 then do don't that 14:53:58 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-dcjjnadaylhmejhm] has joined #lisp 14:53:59 there are different glibc versions 14:54:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:36 mmm, yes. well I need to pick a preference in between #! /path/to/sbcl --script with a path that can vary and producing I don't know how many different images, and maintaining a farm of VMs to handle those builds... 14:55:50 or is there another way I don't know about yet? 14:56:21 outsource it 14:59:39 travis CI 14:59:50 free for OSS 14:59:58 paid versions for proprietary 15:00:38 oh.. you mean for builds 15:00:52 *j_king* catching up on backbuffer 15:00:55 papyrus [~papyrus@119.18.126.21] has joined #lisp 15:01:11 hi.. 15:02:10 dim: you start up a fresh image for building something you want to release 15:02:15 i want to common lisp specification. where is it ? i cannot find it in google. 15:02:31 clhs list 15:02:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 15:03:12 arare_ [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:14 is it for lispwork ? not ansi common lisp ? ( i am sorry for my poor english) 15:03:19 seq99`` [~user@213.61.73.18] has joined #lisp 15:03:25 it is ansi common lisp 15:03:35 thanks a ton :-) 15:03:43 you can even download it 15:04:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:04:10 papyrus: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/common-lisp.html 15:04:19 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:23 which i to do recommend, and then set up your slime to use it 15:04:39 by setting common-lisp-hyperspec-root 15:05:01 stassats : thanks a ton. 15:05:16 now i have two tons of thanks 15:06:20 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:52 i cannot speak english at all. but i can understand your joke. wow~ 15:06:52 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:06:52 -!- seq99` [~user@213.61.73.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:08:09 sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:14 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:13 you're lying, you can speak English! 15:11:17 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:12:16 -!- adeht [root@al.islaam.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:13:05 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:33 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:41 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:15:32 -!- coreytrevor [~ma@84.39.117.57] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:15:36 meister_ [~meister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:26 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:09 _death [root@al.islaam.com.ar] has joined #lisp 15:18:28 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:18:33 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-198-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:20:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:15 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-vlsprreqknunhuej] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:34 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@80.76.244.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:30 stassats: I assure you my friend that I, in fact, do not speak a word of English. I have merely memorized this script to explain this to you. 15:25:54 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:51 j_king: How did you know what stassats was talking about then? 15:27:30 Shinmera stassats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vgoEhsJORU 15:27:34 for reference 15:29:16 -!- ehu` [~ehu@089144206214.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:29:44 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:06 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: "", said the cow] 15:32:34 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 15:34:31 -!- loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:46 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 15:43:00 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:47:44 -!- meister_ [~meister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:10 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:22 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@h-69-3-174-99.lsan.ca.megapath.net] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 15:49:38 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:55:14 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:32 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:57:32 -!- arare_ is now known as arare 16:01:13 how is a clos implementation benchmarked? 16:01:49 By dropping it onto a bench from various hights and examining the damage. 16:02:54 and depending on the scratch marks, one judges quality 16:03:28 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:04 -!- sz0` [~user@92.44.62.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:13 zoek1 [~zoek1@189.193.234.82] has joined #lisp 16:05:16 I was just curious because I was looking at the abcl clos code and felt really confused 16:05:25 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:06:03 it's apparently based on closette... but I thought closette was only an interpreted? 16:06:44 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:40 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-61.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:10 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 16:09:31 also the break-or-bounce test doesn't seem to work well with clos... 16:09:32 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-172-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:39 ubikation: closette doesn't use caching IIRC, most implementations add that. what is interpreted and what is compiled is dependent on the implementation. for instance, iirc, the class hierarchy is generally cached when it is first requested. the same holds when calling a generic function. the responsible method for calling a generic function with the classes of the given arguments can be cached. some of this caching cou 16:09:40 compiletime too though, so it depends on the implementation. 16:09:59 "Based on" means "what we started with, to some extent". There can be a LOT of changes made to that base. 16:10:34 -!- trebor_dki [~user@153.96.244.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:06 sbcl at least does tons of runtime caching, plus a special compile time caching for make-instance calls, for example 16:11:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:34 Mmm. SBCL's CLOS is "based on" PCL, though, not Closette. 16:11:57 oh, i thought the conversation was clos generally, not closette, sorry 16:12:29 nyef: PCL? 16:13:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:13:30 portable common loops, or something? 16:14:16 it was different from closette in that it was built to be fast, which is presumably why it's rather eldritch reading 16:15:20 it was portable (except for having special compiler support for lots of things), but over time sbcl's has become, well, sbcl-integrated 16:15:59 sbcl now has nonportable common loops 16:16:24 "encrusted uncommon loops" 16:17:33 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:06 ehu [~ehu@089144206207.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 16:19:47 thanks! 16:19:52 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.190] has joined #lisp 16:20:02 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:10 -!- perpet 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[~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:19 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.238] has joined #lisp 16:38:13 Hi, if possible what would be the best way to generate sbcl bindings for allegro 5 game library? 16:38:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:39:48 by hand with the help of cffi-grovel 16:40:30 ok, thanks 16:42:05 ffilozov [~user@46.Red-88-0-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:23 b_ it just so happens that i wrote some: https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro 16:42:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:33 also i can't believe i never heard of cffi-grovel before 16:42:41 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:00 weird, i did not find your code in google search 16:43:05 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:30 resttime: i will begin my study with yours :) thanks! 16:44:39 no problem 16:45:13 if you have any questions go ahead and ask, I can write some demo's for you too 16:46:59 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 16:47:18 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:21 ^ pong.fig and mushi wallpaper i think 16:47:30 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 16:47:30 *pong.gif 16:47:52 yup :) 16:48:33 that .gif is really outdated though 16:48:52 higher level lisp api.gif & sprite anmation.gif use newer bindings 16:49:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:36 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:49:38 interface comes with buncha default stuff from event handling, display options, to default gameloop 16:49:43 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EFD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:51:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-172-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:51:26 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: "", said the cow] 16:51:40 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:45 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-199-215.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:45 ASau [~user@p5797EFD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:54:10 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:54:20 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:54:23 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 16:57:03 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: bleeding] 16:57:49 all very useful for me. i wanted to get comfortable writing bindings and now i have a reference i am interested in :) 16:59:07 this page atleast should have a mention in allegro 5 language bindings page.. 16:59:40 you should probably look at cl-opengl too 16:59:58 that was my reference "I hope for it to be as clean and neat as cl-opengl." 17:00:12 right in the readme 17:00:38 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:54 sdemarre [~serge@207.95-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:01:03 b_: there is an allegro binding iirc .. also we're working on cl-sdl2 which is already usable 17:03:56 -!- fogus|away is now known as `fogus 17:03:56 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:07 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:23 oGMo: the other is for allegro4, so i wrote them for allegro5 17:04:26 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.190] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 17:04:35 also how much is progress with cl-sdl2? 17:04:40 i'm interested in it now 17:04:57 resttime: oh yeah you were the one doing the allegro stuff 17:06:02 well i finally got autowrap done so adding stuff is just lispifying calls .. but you can make a GL context, window, get input, event loop, etc 17:06:50 i'm not sure sound is in but really adding anything is pretty trivial .. i'm working on some stuff and plan to just add functions as i need them 17:08:08 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:08:58 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:01 oGMo,resttime: thank you both for pointers, i am sure i will have more questions when i get into it 17:10:02 super cool, on a related note I wonder if I can do away with event loops with the Cells dataflow thing 17:10:20 i'm curious about the functional reactive programming that Haskell has going on 17:12:51 can you write a jet engine in it? 17:14:46 b_: np .. there are tons of options for everything these days .. if you need some particular functionality give us a shout (or feel free to submit a patch heh) 17:17:55 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 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leaving] 20:35:43 drmeister [~meister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:43:08 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:48:37 when doing a multiple-value-bind is there way to say I want to discard a value? 20:48:53 (declare (ignore ...)) 20:49:22 *PuercoPop* nods I thought that was when I didn't use a parameter of the function 20:50:09 for any binding. (let ((x (print "hi"))) (declare (ignore x)) (print "bye")) 20:50:44 thanks! 20:51:33 if the values you're ignoring are on the end you can just not have them, also. (multiple-value-bind (a) (values 3 4) a) => 3, no warnings/errors 20:52:49 *PuercoPop* nods They are in middle in this case. Getting a day month year str/ return value 20:54:24 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:30 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 20:57:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:55 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 Natch_l [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:01:25 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:01:25 -!- Natch_l is now known as Natch 21:01:30 clhs nth-value 21:01:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_nth_va.htm 21:03:45 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:03:48 namtsui 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[~user@host210.190-231-106.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:07:57 does anyone experience the same issue, when i have multiple threads running on sbcl and using for example atomic-push and atomic-pop that threads will eventually run off (cpu exhaustion) by mutex lock and remaining on state "waiting on" 22:09:52 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:45 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:02 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:12 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:23 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67-220-27-111.usiwireless.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 22:15:54 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:16:06 -!- zacharias 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