00:01:52 Codynyx [~cody@75.72.187.16] has joined #lisp 00:02:47 `26: there is no interaction. the package system is for managing names. generic functions are named by a single symbol. distinct symbols name different functions. 00:03:23 "multimethod" is not terminology you'll find in CL discussion. It has generic functions, which are implemented by methods. 00:03:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:11 zRecursive [~czsq888@220.166.238.72] has joined #lisp 00:04:31 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:13 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:25 If you try to arrange a package in a way that has two distinct symbols of the same symbol-name accessible, you'll get a conflict. It doesn't matter what they name. 00:05:53 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.239.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:04 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:55 <`26> Xach: is it possible to manually merge generic functions from different packages? 00:13:19 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:02 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:41 yes 00:15:43 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:48 sort of 00:16:15 but you don't want to do that 00:17:02 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboo38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:36 <`26> why not? 00:18:09 it's not the proper way to do things 00:18:09 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:31 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:18:57 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:59 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:59 `26: If the semantics of two functions are the same, they should be the same function. 00:21:53 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyznuwazzhvucgdr] has joined #lisp 00:22:28 <`26> Xach: yes but literally merging them into the same function would mean merging the two packages 00:25:05 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:26:19 sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:26:19 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:26:19 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:27:55 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:28:39 `26: How might a situation like that arise? 00:29:39 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 00:33:17 <`26> Interesting, I can't think of any example. 00:34:11 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:13 <`26> The situation would be that a generic function in a package is specialized for various inputs of various classes, then another package wants to augment it with the case where the input is in a class defined there. 00:35:51 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-136-96-17.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:37:50 <`26> What about an IM program which has a (send-message (c channel) (m string)) and (send-message (c channel) (m image)) and someone implements a plugin that adds (send-message (c channel) (m soundclip)) ? 00:38:16 `26: easy, it just does (defmethod package1:send-message ((c channel) (m package2:soundclip)) ...) 00:39:48 <`26> Oh. Okay I see, is your point that the generic function should have a principal definition somewhere and that other packages may augment it if they wish to do so? 00:40:15 right 00:40:57 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 00:44:26 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:12 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:58 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:16 agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:29 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:55:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.138.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:05:00 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 01:06:00 -!- splittist [bc3f27c0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.63.39.192] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:21 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:11:09 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 01:12:47 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:53 -!- ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:04 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 01:22:06 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 01:23:03 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:44 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:56 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:28:45 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:26 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:30:37 -!- Modius [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 01:31:09 Modius [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:25 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:43:20 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:48 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:59 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:49 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:57:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:58:20 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:59:39 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:41 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:01:06 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@218.74.189.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:57 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@76-205-169-48.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:07:12 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:12:40 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:17:11 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:18:14 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:18:58 i notice that slyrus's opticl library prefers 2d-coordinates in y,x order -- i'm used to the opposite order -- are there domains where y,x is the convention (or there is no convention)? 02:19:45 robot-beethoven: displacing a 2d array to a vector can have that effect. i don't know if that's why his library does that though. 02:22:54 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:23:48 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:28 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:10 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:22 Xach: ah yes, cl arrays are row-major order, hadn't thought about that. thanks 02:25:33 I was bitten by that today. 02:26:58 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 02:27:08 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:02 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:25 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jgleqjeshyqsvyyh] has joined #lisp 02:34:55 -!- loke_ [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:33 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:25 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:43:00 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 02:49:52 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:27 Mathieu [~cicak@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 02:53:01 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:25 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 02:56:52 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:44 ltbarcly [477449c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.116.73.196] has joined #lisp 03:11:02 it's possible using MOP to make funcallable instances 03:11:09 is it possible to make funcallable classes? 03:12:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:12:15 you can have a class that's itself a funcallable-instance, though i don't know why you would 03:13:17 ltbarcly, I used it to do things like "symbolic functions" 03:13:28 Bike: experiments in duck typing 03:14:32 I'm having trouble searching for how to make a funcallable class, since I don't know any way to search that won't just give me examples of how to make a class who's instances are funcallable 03:15:32 Bike: specifically, if I have something that takes a callable, I want to be able to pass a class and have the resulting instance be treated like the return value of the callable 03:15:47 that is to say, calling the class will just instantiate it 03:16:29 Quadrescence: any examples or links that you know of? 03:16:35 ltbarcly, https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/symbolic-function/src/931b77316d8ffdeb4e5f55af28f6dfd99b7834f7/symbolic-function.lisp?at=default 03:17:10 ltbarcly, line 21, 63 03:17:12 ltbarcly: define funcallable-class-instance or whatever as a funcallable class, and then use that as a metaclass 03:19:20 ahhh, thanks for the help 03:19:21 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 03:19:21 ltbarcly, the key is set-funcallable-instance-function 03:19:28 simpler example here: http://www.alu.org/mop/concepts.html#funcallable-instances 03:19:32 it looks like I was missing set-funcallable-instance-function 03:19:39 I had the metaclass set right 03:19:50 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:54 I still don't quite understand this I'm afraid, isn't initialize-instance :after called after the instance is constructed? 03:22:22 yes 03:22:43 so your instance is made, and then you set the function to be called if the object is funcalled 03:22:57 right, but I want the class itself to be funcallable 03:22:59 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:20 what does that mean? 03:23:45 (let ((x (make-instance 'my-class))) (funcall x)) will work 03:24:07 (defclass xxx () ()) (funcall xxx) 03:24:41 (funcall (find-class 'xxx)) rather 03:24:48 then you're on your on your own with that I guess 03:25:13 funcallable-standard-class allows instances to be funcalled, not the class itself 03:25:13 ltbarcly: so just set the initialize-instance for the metaclass 03:25:27 yeah what Bike said 03:25:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:26:10 Bike, wouldnt you need to make your own metaclass? 03:26:29 yeah, that's what i suggested earlier 03:26:44 oh, sorry, didn't see 03:26:52 I wonder if it would make more sense to just have the metaclass create function with the same name as the class 03:26:59 probably, yes 03:27:20 that would make meta-programming a little uglier, but probably works for now 03:28:45 setmeaway2 [setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 03:30:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:31:22 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:31:29 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:12 -!- resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:41 resttime [~rest@99.135.190.144] has joined #lisp 03:38:50 m104_ [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:59 -!- m104_ [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:44:37 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:49 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:47 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:54 alpha123 [~chatzilla@65-128-101-149.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:42 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:53 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:01 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:56 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drhpddzltqukllrt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:02:05 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:12 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-60-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 04:04:09 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:00 faust45 [~faust45@91-103-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:00 -!- faust45 [~faust45@91-103-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:20 weird. my C-c C-c / C-c C-k is undefined 04:06:33 anyone know how to resolve that? or why that would happen? 04:06:40 this was working the other day 04:06:48 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 04:07:58 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:08:12 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:08:40 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:28 and yes, it is named .lisp ... odd. 04:11:02 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:22 is slime running? 04:15:38 yup 04:15:51 in a separate frame, i loaded :pal via quicklisp 04:16:54 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 04:17:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:22:00 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:04 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 04:22:24 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:03 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 04:27:46 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 holycow: is SLIME active in the buffer? 04:29:01 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:06 doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:23 sykopomp: in a buffer yes 04:37:14 trying without my .emacs 04:37:23 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 04:38:15 oh crap, something is wrong with my .emacs. i have so few problems on linux i always forget to check local config files 04:38:20 sorry to bother everyone 04:38:34 thanks for the assistance 04:44:11 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:19 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:19 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:49:09 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:50:33 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.164.152] has joined #lisp 04:51:48 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:51 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-154-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:52:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:52:23 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:57 zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.240.29] has joined #lisp 05:02:06 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dtgptvqhviavndit] has joined #lisp 05:03:32 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.164.152] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 05:04:15 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:05:38 Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:06:21 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:49 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ,,joeakpyd] 05:09:32 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-60-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:11:59 `26: actually, the problem is the opposite: to ensure that you've not named your methods in different packages with different symbols that have the same name. If you do, you'll wonder why some methods for some classes are not called (the method of the superclass being called instead). This is a sign that you forgot to export the generic function name from the package of the superclass, and use or import it in the package of the 05:12:00 subclass. 05:14:08 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:14:42 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:14:47 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:58 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 05:16:17 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:43 <`26> pjb: I don't see how that would happen without an error occurring. 05:22:04 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:22:19 <`26> I'm not being critical or argumentative, I am saying I am too stupid to see how that would happen. 05:22:43 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:39 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:32:18 Sure, an error occurs. But no condition has to be signaled. 05:34:13 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:34:15 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-205-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:35:14 Try: (defpackage :s (:use :cl) (:export :sup :m)) (defpackage :c (:use :cl)(:export :cla)) (defclass s:sup () ()) (defgeneric s:m (o) (:method ((o s::sup)) (print 'in-sup))) (defclass c:cla (s:sup) ()) (defmethod c::m ((o c:cla)) (print 'in-sub) (call-next-method)) (s:m (make-instance 'c:cla)) 05:35:16 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:35:38 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.48.184] has joined #lisp 05:35:55 No condition is signaled, but there's an error: There's no method named s:m to dispatch on instances of the class c:cla. 05:36:14 When you use in-package, it may occur conspicuously. 05:36:26 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:40 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.158.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:36:47 <`26> Interesting. 05:37:54 That's because here, we've defined two generic functions: one named s:m and one named c::m. Since we didn't import :s in :cla, those symbols are different. 05:38:06 import s:m or use :s in :cla 05:38:12 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:31 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 05:39:22 <`26> pjb: Right. Thanks. 05:40:32 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.136.172] has joined #lisp 05:41:06 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:45:29 -!- m104 is now known as m104_ 05:46:36 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:48:24 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.42] has joined #lisp 05:50:05 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:23 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:14 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:55:09 -!- flip214 is now known as flip-- 05:55:26 -!- flip-- is now known as flip216 05:55:53 -!- m104_ is now known as m104 05:56:56 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined 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[~nostoi@141.Red-79-157-92.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:54:53 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:55:59 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has left #lisp 08:00:40 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:01:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:52 beaumonta [~abeaumont@185.Red-79-150-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:33 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@81.Red-79-157-153.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:07:36 stassats: i shared the running time of your tweaked code on the forums of the course and people are amazed lisp can be so fast 08:09:48 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 08:09:50 good 08:11:09 I think so too 08:11:36 common lisp could bear a bit more love imho 08:11:53 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cmggicpvcdlciuva] has joined #lisp 08:12:50 jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-81.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:13:15 or just more correct information, instead of "i was taught lisp one semester and it's awful" 08:13:58 stassats: one more question - if you didnt know in advance the number of vertices you couldn't correctly set the dimensions of the arrays. What would you do then, make them adjustable? 08:14:25 well quoting one of the guys: "Perhaps my view of lisp as a slow monster needs to change :-)" 08:15:10 adjustable arrays are slower than simple arrays 08:15:31 but should be faster than hashtables still 08:15:56 thanks 08:17:54 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d854baf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:44 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.77] has joined #lisp 08:24:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d854baf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Anyone know why 100 specifically? 09:04:41 prw: no, it is an arbitrary limit. 09:04:47 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.136.172] has joined #lisp 09:07:19 heh one of the tricks of experienced programmers. make your arbitrary limits powers of 2 or one less than a power of 2. this will suggest that there are very deep reasons for the arbitrary limit that you couldn't possibly explain to the user. 09:09:58 :D 09:11:05 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:11:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d854baf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:11:40 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.77] has joined #lisp 09:13:29 mhi^ [~mhi@cable-86-56-7-169.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:46 ... so true 09:14:00 also, easy to divide and multiply :> 09:14:13 (by certain values) 09:14:37 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 09:16:23 <`26> mal___: actually it's better to set them to random-looking numbers in hexadecimal 09:16:39 <`26> should induce some head-scratching 09:16:44 `26: or just *write* them in ehx 09:16:48 *hex 09:17:10 another way is to write them decimal style, but read them in base-16 09:17:16 *p_l* looks at certain APIs 09:18:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:29:09 -!- `26 [~kvirc@gateway/tor-sasl/26/x-07558203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:24 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869618.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:32 -!- Mandus_ is now known as Mandus 09:32:53 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:33:46 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:36:56 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869618.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:38:25 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ed9a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:03 `26 [~kvirc@gateway/tor-sasl/26/x-07558203] has joined #lisp 09:41:38 -!- DataLinkDroid 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joined #lisp 11:42:58 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:44:12 protist [~protist@229.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:46:06 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:46:38 stassats: I have one more question regarding your changes - there is an array created with :element-type 'bit and :inital-element 0 and right after that you have a call to fill. Doesn't the array get prefilled with 0's already when initialized with :initial-element 0? 11:47:09 xificurC: it's used twice 11:47:28 instead of creating a second one, fill the previous with zeros 11:48:30 oh i see now, thanks 11:48:44 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:48:47 imagine how stupid i feel sometimes :) 11:49:32 the next assignment is dijsktra's with heaps, I wonder how stupid I'll feel now 11:50:14 i saw some Clojure today....and i recreated its anonymous function syntax in Common Lisp....and mine nests properly unlike Clojure's :D 11:50:21 http://ideone.com/qEfBUO 11:50:36 its shorthand....it has normal anons, too 11:50:47 (not (member chr digits)) == (digit-char-p char) 11:50:51 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d854a4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:55 s/not// 11:51:24 stassats: ah there is a built in predicate? 11:52:26 protist: (sort ... #'< :key #'car) 11:52:35 protist: also, the indentation is awful 11:52:58 stassats: thank you 11:52:59 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ed56.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:16 H4ns: i wrote it one half my screen...i guess i was squeezing too much :(...i will be more careful 11:53:24 and coercing a string to a list to iterate over it is silly 11:53:37 H4ns: or have i done some just plain funky indentation? 11:53:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:54:18 protist: the indentation is just wrong. look at how the lambda is aligned to the gensyms 11:54:36 protist: you should use a proper editor that knows how to indent lisp properly 11:54:39 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:54:58 H4ns: ah you are right 11:56:05 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:57:08 hi H4ns, segv- :) 11:57:13 protist: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138234 11:57:22 fe[nl]ix: o/ 11:57:35 hey fe[nl]ix . 11:57:54 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:57:58 *fe[nl]ix* is no longer a Berliner :( 11:58:05 stassats: beautiful....thank you :) 11:58:08 fe[nl]ix: uh? moved to strasbourgh? 11:58:18 stassats: i love how people show me better ways to do things here 11:58:20 (or however that place is spelled) 11:58:23 "ich bin kein Berliner" 11:59:03 H4ns: yes 11:59:24 fe[nl]ix: at least you've got yourself an interesting job :) 11:59:25 StraßBurg 11:59:54 that's right :) 12:00:05 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ed56.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:00:14 protist: yes, basically, the whole thing ought to be rewritten 12:01:00 stassats: how would you rewrite the second do* (i feel like i use those too much).... 12:01:15 stassats: you are right 12:01:49 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:07:13 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ed56.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:55 it is not clear how you claim that it "nests properly" 12:08:25 platyputy [2ec24275@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.194.66.117] has joined #lisp 12:08:31 is it a windows thing that I have ^M at the end of a (read-line stream)? 12:08:39 xificurC: yes 12:08:46 xificurC: most probobly yes... 12:08:57 he probably meant that you can call an anonymous function from within an anonymous function 12:09:51 xificurC: but the code suggests that this is broken 12:10:14 -!- Codynyx [~cody@75.72.187.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:38 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.222.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:47 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:10:59 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:03 stassats: #(+ 1 % %1 (#(+ 1 %) %2)) is short for (lambda (% %1 %2) (+ 1 % %1 ((lambda (%)(+ 1 %) %2))) 12:11:21 stassats: if you nest those in Clojure....you can get issues with name conflicts or something 12:11:48 stassats: i went through and changed all the variables to gensyms to avoid them stepping on eachother 12:12:34 if your code looks like #(+ 1 % %1 (#(+ 1 %) %2)), you deserve all kind of issues 12:12:42 stassats: haha :p 12:12:55 protist: that is so ugly 12:12:58 stassats: yeah i just wanted them to be abitrarilly composable 12:13:25 stassats: normally it would be for short things like (mapcar #(* 2 %) '(1 2 3)) 12:13:33 you don't need gensyms to do that 12:13:59 stassats: without gensyms....my outer one sees the variables in the inner one and gets confused 12:14:03 protist: normally it would be for things that you don't want to nest anyway 12:14:30 H4ns: yeah...it just seems sloppy when it can be composable though 12:14:43 what are the current dbs used today in the cl world? i'd prefer something that doesn't required a sql instance or something... 12:14:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:15:01 platyputy: many people use cl-store 12:15:33 ChangeSafe! 12:15:34 platyputy: i also have some production applications running bknr.datastore, but i must admit that i've not written any new ones since a few years. 12:15:36 (not really) 12:16:04 H4ns: thanks! 12:16:37 rm200910 [~user@78-105-231-39.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:16:48 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:16:49 protist: if you don't want to be sloppy, what happens when you have #(let ((% x)) ..)? or if you have a function named %? 12:17:36 stassats: don't do that :p 12:17:48 stassats: but that is the issue with anaphora 12:18:12 yacks [~py@103.6.158.102] has joined #lisp 12:18:13 you wouldn't catch me using this #( abomination anyway 12:18:25 too many people take anaphoric macros seriously 12:18:32 come on, people, they are just a joke! 12:18:41 i probably wouldn't either...i just wanted to see Common Lisp do it after i saw it in Clojure 12:18:47 which also replaces the vector reader 12:19:04 H4ns: cl-store looks alot like the old cruddy save-object.lisp thingie ... 12:19:19 platyputy: "so?" 12:19:26 stassats: originally i had a second character to dispatch....that is all commented out....i wanted to see it looking the same 12:19:37 platyputy: if you want new and shiny, why do you do cl? :) 12:19:44 http://www.n-a-n-o.com/lisp/save-object-10.2.lisp 12:20:07 -!- rm200910 [~user@78-105-231-39.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:18 platyputy: that looks crufty 12:20:22 H4ns: hehe cause it is stable and doesn't change every year :-) 12:20:28 well i am curious...anyone want to share their most interesting macro? 12:20:31 or most useful? 12:20:39 i like the casing convention: (defun INSTANCE-NAME (instance) 12:20:51 "let's use upper case, but only sometimes" 12:20:54 Triclops256 [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has joined #lisp 12:20:56 -!- Triclops256 [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has left #lisp 12:21:03 haha 12:22:02 ffilozov [598c7a17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.140.122.23] has joined #lisp 12:22:12 cl-store looks nothing like that 12:22:20 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ed56.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:22:38 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 12:23:05 save object, restore object ... just that it serialises and not "much" more 12:23:28 how "much" "more" do you need? 12:24:03 stassats: just enough, but not much more than that. 12:24:51 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85ac75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:42 koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 12:25:59 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:20 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:38 _8hzp [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:57 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:00 -!- hzp [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:30:51 like cl-sql with cl-store as a backend would be just perfect! 12:30:52 babueverest [~everest@113.199.162.218] has joined #lisp 12:31:03 hey 12:31:35 exit 12:31:38 -!- babueverest [~everest@113.199.162.218] has quit [Client Quit] 12:32:04 -!- mathrick_ is now known as mathrick 12:33:07 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:33:36 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 12:33:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:56 i like the casing convention: (defun INSTANCE-NAME (instance) <-- there is a twisted logic to it, but it's also a fantastic way to make sure readtable-case modes other than :UPCASE break horribly 12:35:30 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:36:01 rudybot: will this finally be the year for lisp on the desktop? 12:36:11 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:36:47 _8hzp` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 cscorp [~csorp@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:29 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 -!- _8hzp [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:37 protist: I dunno if it nests, but ITERATE already has #L() 12:38:41 which is super handy 12:41:00 -!- _8hzp` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:41:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-127-4.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:42:20 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:42:51 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:43:40 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:30 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:53 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:04 sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:47:04 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:47:04 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 12:48:31 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:48:33 -!- spion_ is now known as spion 12:48:37 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85ac75.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:56 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:49:25 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:29 protist: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138234#1 12:50:11 echo-area [~user@111.196.3.16] has joined #lisp 12:52:03 hmm, it returns #'(lambda () ...), not (lambda () ...), so you cannot actually say (#L(* 2 !1) 3) 12:53:22 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:54:20 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:36 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:54 mathrick: but were you going to? 12:57:16 stassats: yes, if I wanted to port protist's example directly 12:57:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:21 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59:05 wont stassats' paste fail for expressions that have cycles 12:59:29 Quadrescence: i hope it would 12:59:37 not terminate, I mean. 12:59:45 i hope it won't 13:00:16 because, who has circular code 13:00:19 -!- Guest97245 [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:01:09 i do for some weird but necessary data structures 13:01:42 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:52 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:52 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:03:38 infinite compiles are the best compiles 13:06:43 <`26> wait, circular code? how does I don't what how why I... I give up. 13:06:47 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@cable-86-56-7-169.cust.telecolumbus.net] has left #lisp 13:07:15 that wouldn't actually be a part of the code, but arguments 13:07:48 yo dawg 13:08:14 heard you like lisp so we put lisp in your lisp so you can lisp while you lisp 13:08:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.106] has joined #lisp 13:08:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.106] has quit [Changing host] 13:08:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:08:44 how original 13:09:02 it's monday 13:09:10 i'll be here all week! :D 13:10:12 <`26> Fundamentalists would be great Lisp users. 13:11:08 <`26> Because what other language lets you code circular logic? 13:12:11 `26: you're not funny 13:12:45 <`26> fe[nl]ix: that's subjective. 13:13:07 but I'm also an op 13:13:09 that's objective 13:13:43 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 13:13:47 <`26> Appeal to authority, that's a fallacy. 13:13:53 not being an op never stopped me from being objective 13:14:00 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:14:32 `26: no, that would be an argumentum ad baculum 13:14:52 `26: actually, everyone has to rely on authorities because we don't live long enough to specialize in everything 13:15:26 or are you going to rediscover Newtonian physics to avoid an appeal to authority? 13:15:35 Aethaeryn: that's not what he meant 13:15:38 <`26> fe[nl]ix: Ah, they do have a term for it. I learned something great. 13:15:50 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyznuwazzhvucgdr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:51 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oftpepqofwdehjpq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:54 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.216] has joined #lisp 13:16:39 -!- d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bsepekproiennhuy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:17 <`26> Aethaeryn: wouldn't a sufficiently in-depth study of the records be the same as rediscovery? 13:17:43 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:55 vsync- [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:15 -!- tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:15 -!- zfx [~zfx@176.34.198.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:16 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:36 silenius [~silenius@41.141.15.180] has joined #lisp 13:18:37 tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 13:18:37 `26: can you sufficiently study in depth all science up to the 19th century? possibly. 13:18:38 <`26> Moreover, I somehow doubt fe[nl]ix has the credentials to evaluate whether something is objectively funny, if such a thing is even possible. 13:18:53 `26: please go away 13:19:07 zfx [~zfx@ec2-176-34-198-128.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:39 `26: anyway, #lispcafe exists for off-topic 13:19:53 that may be what the op means 13:20:31 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 13:20:34 `26: you're noisy, that's for sure 13:22:22 sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:34 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:22:34 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:23:14 Quadrescence: are you happy now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138234#2 ? 13:24:16 stassats, yes :). The fact you seem to strive for correct code is pretty appreciable. 13:25:15 it still breaks when % is used not as a variable 13:25:56 lambda macros ? 13:26:13 that would be a very useful feature 13:26:41 I wrote an ugly one a while ago: #2$(+ $1 $2) 13:27:18 $$ is bound to a &rest arg, so #$$$ is something like LIST, and #$$1 is identity 13:27:21 "Hi, I'm Quadrescence and I'm a reader-macroholic" 13:27:27 haha 13:27:45 It was only made because there were hundreds of lambdas that were needed for a particular application. 13:28:00 most of which were simple, and all of which were inside structs 13:32:50 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:27 you know how bad I feel when you guys write tens of lines of code in an hour that I dont even understand and I take two hours to do something for what you'd need 15 minutes :( 13:34:21 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-146-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:21 you feel not bad at all, and motivated to learn more 13:35:11 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-121-48.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:19 lisp is hard for my brain 13:35:20 prw [~chatzilla@87-57-209-106-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:25 but illuminating 13:35:30 its a pain 13:36:25 Using bordeaux-threads, bt:with-lock-held ... is the lock released if an error is signalled inside the locked code? 13:37:33 that's implementation specific 13:37:42 but expect to find an unwind-protect 13:38:18 I'm using Sbcl 13:38:19 it'd be a bit sad if that was really unspecified. 13:38:28 1.1.10 13:38:37 SBCL does release it on non-local exits 13:38:58 prw: do you use slime ? 13:39:17 fe[nl]ix:yes. 13:39:52 you can use slime-macroexpand-all to macroexpand that code 13:40:11 and M-. should show you what the code does, if you've configured the source location 13:40:22 it expands to SB-THREAD::CALL-WITH-MUTEX 13:40:27 fe[nl]ix: Thanks, trying now 13:40:31 which wraps the body in an unwind-protect 13:41:26 C-c RET and M-. are one of the most useful features of slime :) 13:41:37 and CL that allows for such things to exist 13:42:49 who does C-c RET? C-c C-m is much easier to press 13:43:59 I do 13:44:18 C-c C-m is also mnemonic 13:45:18 and macroexpand-all will be C-c M-m 13:47:28 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:48:37 teggi [~teggi@123.25.129.139] has joined #lisp 13:48:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:34 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:56 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53:44 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:55:29 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:58:07 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 13:59:16 -!- protist [~protist@229.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:03:12 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-142.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:18 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:51 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:07:40 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:20:07 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:09 DonMartin [~donmartin@p5B2224B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:42 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:34 paul0 [~paul0@179.187.88.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:26:58 mmeh 14:28:07 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:43 -!- DonMartin [~donmartin@p5B2224B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:30:20 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:39 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:31:29 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:33:05 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 14:34:13 i was hoping to use cl-heap:fibonacci-heap to implement dijkstra's shoterst path algorithm for an assignment. My simple logic was to fill the heap with (vertex . distance) initialized with distance = 1000000 (its given in the assignment that if there is no path then it should be 1m) except for the starting vertex which gets distance = 0, then look at this vertex's neighbors and if the distance is smaller than the one in the heap 14:34:13 then reassign the value in the heap to this value 14:34:50 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:35:19 however I only see a function called decrease-key that allows for a change only if you are decreasing the value, otherwise throws an error 14:35:22 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:38 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:35:51 am I missing something? or is the logic wrong? 14:38:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:36 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@81.174.25.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:45:14 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:46:01 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:48 _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 14:47:34 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 14:49:46 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-57-85.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 14:49:56 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-57-85.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 14:49:56 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 14:51:23 ase_ [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:51:58 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:25 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 14:52:26 -!- SmoMo [~smomo@host31-51-199-144.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:29 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:04 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 14:57:43 kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-140-233.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 14:59:58 p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:26 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-wvsuhzgcppuebesy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:02 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:08:20 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 15:09:27 -!- prw [~chatzilla@87-57-209-106-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has left #lisp 15:10:11 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:13:34 d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtilkeowijugxplp] has joined #lisp 15:14:12 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xdzcygnonmjpokdy] has joined #lisp 15:14:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:30 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has joined #lisp 15:14:43 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:19:27 krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has joined #lisp 15:20:52 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vcxwhskzwoinuphy] has joined #lisp 15:21:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:30 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-142.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:25:16 isn't increasing in a fib heap just copying, modifying, and a merge or something utterly silly? 15:27:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:28:30 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:29:03 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:02 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:17 -!- ase_ [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:03 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:32:28 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:34 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:32:34 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:34:48 agumonkey [~agu@144.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:52 -!- platyputy [2ec24275@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.194.66.117] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:34:57 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-140-233.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:35:10 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 15:35:15 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:28 yonkeltron [~user@yonkeltron.new.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:44 anyone looking for work in NYC and have the stomach for some interesting finance stuff? 15:35:57 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:36:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:36:34 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:10 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@144.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:37:30 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 15:38:04 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-113-30.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 15:40:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:41:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has joined #lisp 15:44:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:44:49 jsn [~user@c-50-156-35-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:58 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:51 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cmggicpvcdlciuva] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:29 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:51:03 resttime [~rest@99.135.190.144] has joined #lisp 15:53:14 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:53:54 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-polveixuaqzqpdvg] has joined #lisp 15:54:32 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:55:47 -!- krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:09 <|3b|> is 3.0.2 the current version of asdf? 15:58:49 <|3b|> looks like it is 15:59:57 -!- _cosmonaut_ [~user@nat-gw1.edb.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:01:00 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:01:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 16:01:18 hi 16:02:23 how can (defun factorial (x) (reduce #'* (loop for i from 1 to x collect i))) be faster than the TCO implementation? 16:02:28 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:03:22 Denommus, for what values of x? 16:03:23 <|3b|> 'the'? 16:03:33 |3b|, the canonical tco version 16:03:41 Quadrescence: big values, really big 16:04:31 |3b|: (defun factorial (x) (labels ((fact (x acc) (if (zerop x) acc (fact (1- x) (* x acc))))) (fact x 1))) 16:04:54 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:17 Quadrescence: 100000, for instance, runs in 295 seconds in SBCL. The TCO runs in 322 16:05:29 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:05:44 Denommus, did you declare optimize to make sure TCO actually occurs? 16:05:45 <|3b|> well, recursive version seems to be doing an extra zerop and if per element 16:06:28 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:06:49 <|3b|> and the LOOP might provide more info to optimize the increment compared to the 1- in the recursive version 16:07:00 |3b|: is it enough to justify 27 seconds? 16:07:20 |3b|: hm, indeed 16:07:45 the version in alexandria that bifurcates takes about 20 seconds here 16:07:52 Quadrescence: besides (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))), what else should I do to make TCO explicit? 16:08:12 Quadrescence: I think the TCO is occuring because, otherwise, I would get a stack overflow in 100000 16:09:04 the bifurcation indeed must make things slowers, since it checks a boolean for every element, while the loop version doesn't 16:09:14 that must be the reason 16:09:21 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 *|3b|* wonders if i'm testing wrong, get 3.2 and 3.6 seconds here 16:10:27 |3b|: with one million? 16:10:38 ... 16:10:40 10 million, sorry 16:10:59 no, wait 16:11:10 <|3b|> with the number you mentioned above, 100000 16:11:26 yes, it's one million. I forgot a 0 16:11:31 Denommus, for 20k it's slower 16:11:34 for me 16:11:41 but even with 100000 it's faster 16:11:45 Quadrescence: let me check 16:12:42 Quadrescence: still slower to me 16:12:55 1 second 16:13:30 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 well, it's not the best factorial algorithm 16:15:41 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:16:24 stassats: which one would you use? 16:16:36 <|3b|> actually i suspect difference might be due to multiplying numbers in reverse order 16:16:59 <|3b|> starting at high end gives you bigger numbers faster, so you spend more time doing bignum math with larger values 16:17:21 |3b|: it makes sense 16:17:56 Denommus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138241 16:18:04 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 16:18:13 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:19:47 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 16:19:53 stassats: this one is impressive 16:21:33 Denommus, http://paste.lisp.org/display/138242 16:22:09 the one from quickutil does the same thing i pasted above 16:22:16 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 16:22:31 basically it allows for smaller integers to be multiplied 16:22:36 one is just more readable :) 16:22:58 is it? 16:23:11 what do you think? 16:23:20 Denommus: what are you actually using such huge numbers for, by the way 16:23:34 Quadrescence: i think they are both incomprehensible if you're not familiar with this trick 16:23:40 stassats, :) 16:23:43 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:38 Bike: just implementing some functions for probability calculation for learning 16:25:45 -!- Betawolf [betawolf@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:5300] has quit [Quit: Quick, say something cutting!] 16:26:02 if you want truly massive factorials, modifying this would be even better: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/9c129ad37f251a24ef5371aca09df767ab5409e2/factorial.lisp?at=default 16:26:08 Quadrescence: indeed, the TCO one is confusing for those who don't know it 16:26:16 Quadrescence: *the canonical TCO one 16:27:04 if one could reuse the same bignum over-and-over, that should be faster 16:27:39 stassats, you mean an "in place" multiplication? 16:27:40 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 16:28:00 Quadrescence: around where does the primes one actually become practical 16:28:06 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:10 in situ multiplication 16:29:28 -!- k3VB6u4d is now known as goodmanio 16:29:33 Bike, if you do the prime stuff right, probably around 5-100 million 16:29:42 as in precomputing them? 16:29:57 as in GGNFS? 16:30:15 stassats, what, you don't need GNFS 16:30:20 Bike, yes, that for example 16:30:29 also not writing code that is slow like I do 16:30:44 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-60-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:31:02 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:31:13 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 16:31:41 but wait, (integer-length (time (sb-gmp:mpz-fac 100000))) => Evaluation took: 0.049 seconds of real time 16:32:05 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:32:15 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 something looks fishy, though 16:33:23 agr [~agr@200-170-124-141.corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:33:38 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 16:34:00 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:06 though, even just loading sb-gmp makes the one i paste go from 1.8 seconds to 0.097 seconds 16:34:28 the fishy part is (sb-gmp:mpz-fac 6) => 2596142239608242946183803711783632 16:34:43 *patrickwonders* nods "That is fishy" 16:34:51 it gets the lowest part right 16:35:08 (logand #xFFFFFF (sb-gmp:mpz-fac 6)) => 720 16:35:09 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-91-232.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:35:32 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:44 zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.240.29] has joined #lisp 16:36:42 and (= (! 100000) (sb-gmp:mpz-fac 100000)) => T 16:36:53 which means something is wrong with small numbers 16:38:36 *|3b|* gets NIL for that 16:38:57 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:14 <|3b|> and different integer-length of the mpz-fac version (1516799 vs 1516705 for other 3) 16:40:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.136.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:41:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:45 it's all quite strange 16:41:54 lots of SAFETY 0 16:42:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-76-115-114-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:08 (sb-gmp:mpz-pow 7 2) just gives you Unhandled memory fault at #xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. instead of singlaling a type error because of this 16:43:17 but 2 is actually type checked, go figure 16:43:25 (7 isn't) 16:43:58 so you can have (sb-gmp:mpz-pow 'a 2) => 63316952... 16:45:11 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:45:23 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:45:25 suddenly, (sb-gmp:mpz-fac 6) now gives 720 16:45:53 <|3b|> random garbage in upper part of a register somewhere? 16:46:07 can reproduce it after: (sb-gmp:mpz-pow 7 2) => error, (sb-gmp:mpz-fac 6) => 720 16:46:11 a workaround! 16:46:49 |3b|: can you reproduce that too? 16:47:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 16:48:07 <|3b|> nope, i get same bad value for fac 6 after error 16:48:26 <|3b|> not same value you got though 16:48:31 probably a different gmp version 16:49:00 i've got 5.1.2 16:49:10 <|3b|> or different addresses or something, since the high bits look similar 16:49:17 sb-gmp::*gmp-version* 16:49:39 <|3b|> 5.0.5 here 16:50:00 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:50:02 i'll file a bug, i don't really know what's going on with sb-gmp 16:50:04 coreytrevor [~ma@95.211.140.99] has joined #lisp 16:50:43 <|3b|> after restarting sbcl, fac 6 alternates between 2 more different wrong values 16:52:45 |3b|: try after (sb-gmp:mpz-pow 17 2) 16:53:44 <|3b|> yeah, 720 after that 16:53:47 nah, it became undetermenistic now 16:54:11 <|3b|> once, then alternating between 2 again (1 same as prev 2, 1 different) 16:55:53 i can see that it allocates an MPZ, but doesn't have an unwind-protect for __GMPZ_CLEAR 16:56:04 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:39 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 16:58:56 anaumov_ [~an@niobe.agnitas.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:14 lp 1206191 16:59:14 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1206191 16:59:20 if anyone has something to add 17:01:15 -!- anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:01:27 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.25.129.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:57 after doing (with-alien ((fac (struct gmpint))) (__gmpz_init (addr fac))) several times, it gets to 720 17:04:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:43 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:11 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:13:30 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 17:13:36 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 17:15:24 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:15:50 *|3b|* suspects the 1+ in the calculation of size in with-gmp-mpz-results 17:16:04 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-60-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:16:08 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:13 i checked, and it's the same value with correct and incorrect results 17:16:34 <|3b|> right, but that could just be luck that there was a 0 in the extra word 17:16:54 could be 17:17:13 kdas__ [~kdas@114.143.160.60] has joined #lisp 17:17:18 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.136.172] has joined #lisp 17:17:23 large unsigned bignums use 2 words, the most-significant one is filled with 0 17:17:23 -!- kdas__ [~kdas@114.143.160.60] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:30 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:17:41 <|3b|> in sbcl or gmp? 17:17:48 that's done so that if the MSB is 1 it doesn't think it's a negative number 17:17:50 in SBCL 17:17:53 kdas__ [~kdas@114.143.160.60] has joined #lisp 17:18:20 but, 720 is not even a bignum 17:18:27 <|3b|> yeah, was just wondering about that 17:19:35 removing 1 gives 720 on the first try 17:19:49 <|3b|> without the 1+, it seems to give same results as ! on the 100000 as well 17:20:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:20:21 so, perhaps that 1 more bignums for bignums with 1 MSB is where it got 1+ 17:20:25 or confused the author 17:20:34 -!- kdas__ is now known as kushal 17:20:35 s/more bignums/more digits/ 17:20:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.60] has quit [Changing host] 17:20:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:22:10 Quadrescence: I was running the implementations you showed me, and impressively, factorial2 ran faster than factorial3 with one million 17:22:33 but factorial4 is still the winner anyway 17:23:30 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:23:44 <|3b|> stassats: from the docstrings in gmp-z-to-bignum, it sounds like something is confused, since it uses same as it used for allocating the bignum (assuming allocating bignum doesn't add 1 somewhere) 17:24:02 <|3b|> though just adding it to the allocation changes the results too, so not sure 17:25:30 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 17:29:41 allocating (%allocate-bignum (1+ ,size)), but having count size as (abs (slot ,gres 'mp_size)), should do the trick 17:30:04 %normalize-bignum will then remove the unnessary 0-filled MSD 17:30:36 but, since everything is known ahead of time, it could do with allocating really the correct size right away, or even avodoiding consing a bignum altogether 17:31:12 antgreen [~green@out-on-138.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:24 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:43 gosub [d9857234@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.133.114.52] has joined #lisp 17:33:32 <|3b|> hmm, with 1+ on allocation, (= (! 100) (mpz-fac 100)) is NIL, but they return the same numerical value 17:34:14 <|3b|> actually, maybe i just broke my mpz-gav 17:34:16 <|3b|> *fac 17:34:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34:55 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:35:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:35:22 <|3b|> nope, was that way to start with 17:35:31 <|3b|> where is the %normalize-bignum ? 17:35:50 <|3b|> ah, i see it 17:36:10 but it probably should do (%normalize-bignum b (1+ count)) then 17:39:17 and GMP doesn't use two's complement, unlike sb-bignum 17:40:03 <|3b|> yeah, that seems to work better 17:43:41 that should be enough information for the concerned parties to fix this 17:43:41 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:44:22 *stassats* is rather interested in faster sb-bignum and not in sb-gmp 17:44:40 stassats, why? 17:44:48 GMP has all of the research behind it 17:44:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:45:00 it's not written in lisp 17:45:28 stassats, I started a project to implement fast, native bignums in lisp, based off of other bignum code I'd written probably 6 years ago 17:45:53 splittist [~splittist@192-39.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:45:55 morning 17:46:05 and i have more preference for small bignums to be faster, than for large ones 17:47:05 i'd like both to be fast 17:47:52 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-113-30.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:48:23 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:25 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-polveixuaqzqpdvg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:52:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:52:40 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:52:48 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:52:52 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:16 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:33 -!- agr [~agr@200-170-124-141.corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Quit: agr] 18:05:08 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:28 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:48 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:17:57 -!- iqool [c2371e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.55.30.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:18:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:16 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:19:43 -!- splittist [~splittist@192-39.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:25 pavelpenev_ [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:22:03 josemanuel [~josemanue@108.183.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:22:15 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.215.107] has joined #lisp 18:30:25 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.136.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:34:49 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 18:37:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:54 -!- setheus_ [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:15 -!- pavelpenev_ is now known as pavelpenev 18:42:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 18:44:12 nfkd [c94c1196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.76.17.150] has joined #lisp 18:44:52 Anyone here knows how to make GUIs in Lisp and want to join a project? 18:44:56 We need a GUI for https://github.com/irungentoo/ProjectTox-Core 18:45:12 And here's the concept art: http://tox.im/assets/ss.png 18:45:53 looks like it's all custom interface elements 18:47:01 Well, I'm not really sure, I know absolutely nothing about UIs 18:47:17 If anyone is interested, the IRC channel is #InsertProjectNameHere 18:47:21 (literally) 18:48:11 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85bb8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 i can only suggest to use commonqt 18:49:32 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 Yes, a developer is currently doing one in C++ https://github.com/nurupo/ProjectTox-Qt-GUI 18:49:53 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:08 But as the core independent of the GUI, it'd be very nice to have one in some kind of Lisp 18:50:53 nice as in? 18:51:03 nfkd: commonqt is good enough, AFAIK 18:51:52 stassats: as a showcase of Lisp, or something like that. Expose more people to it. 18:52:06 minion: chant 18:52:06 Denommus: I will try learning that, if I have some time. Thank you. 18:52:06 MORE PEOPLE 18:52:22 I hate seeing C++ everywhere 18:52:31 Damn disgusting 18:53:15 And even though I am just a Lisp learner yet, I think it would be cool to see this project with a GUI in Lisp (since I deal more with C) 18:53:30 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:53:44 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:31 scott-- [~scott@70-9-7-132.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:53 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:11 Qt is written in C++, so it's requires quite c++-loking code 18:58:22 I see... 18:58:25 it's good if you have logic in CL to have GUI in CL too 18:58:49 arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 18:58:52 though, i find it still much better than writing in Qt C++ 18:58:56 Qt in C++ 18:59:38 Uhm, did I just join Qt channel? 18:59:54 arnsa: you didn't 19:00:35 stassats: my IRC must be broken then... 19:01:04 or maybe it's just you 19:01:20 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-142.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:02 paul0_ [~paul0@187.112.250.98] has joined #lisp 19:02:29 -!- paul0 [~paul0@179.187.88.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:02:35 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:50 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:06:57 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:10:18 Even thou its off topic, I would like to point out that new Qt applications that are just general gui stuff should be written in Qt Quick for a more enjoyable time than writing guis in C++ 19:11:41 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:12:21 Is QT quick the Javascripty thing? 19:12:46 no, it has its own declarative language called QML. But it can be extended with Javascript 19:12:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:10 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-167-10.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:13 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:14:14 Qt Quick is the framework 19:14:59 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:15:16 i haven't yet investigated usage of commonqt with qt quick, but it should be doable 19:16:31 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has left #lisp 19:16:51 stassats: if you do, I would like to have a link to anything you produce as examples or just general findings 19:16:55 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:14 Come on, discuss Qt stuff in Qt channel. 19:17:36 arnsa: you can leave if you don't like discussions about writing GUIs in common lisp 19:17:52 arnsa: so that you can continue with emitting all the high-quality lisp content as you always do? 19:18:33 Subfusc: i'm quite happy so far with doing "classic" qt with commonqt 19:18:50 Qt Quick looks pretty good 19:19:04 so, not sure when i will do that, but i'll update commonqt site with instructions if i ever do 19:19:30 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 19:19:54 i need first to get it working with qt-5, which should be easy, but i just can't get around to it 19:20:13 stassats: hah, that was my first question when i realised you where the maintainer :) 19:21:05 being interested in KF5 means i need Qt5 to make new applications. If I can do that in common qt, I wouldn't mind not having QML 19:22:27 i'm still hoping to get rid of smoke some day, but that means having to parse C++, the though of which makes me dizzy 19:22:44 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:23:18 smoke is still a part of Qt5? Hopefully 19:23:43 smoke is a part of kde, but i see in git that it has been updated for Qt5 19:24:05 but it still presents things not in the ideal way 19:24:06 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:24:45 having all the metadata directly in CL and in a particular way will allow for some substantial optimizations 19:24:47 oh well, its still better than nothing 19:25:07 it is, i use it everyday 19:25:52 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:15 i also thought about having the object system completely in CL and using Qt only for rendering 19:28:10 oh, that sounds like a big job. 19:28:39 It would deffinetly be awesome, but not so much if it means too much work for it to be relativly up to date 19:28:55 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:13 yeah, lisp people don't seem to be writing GUIs much 19:29:18 except for the web ones 19:29:21 btw, you don't by any chance have any commonqt applications open-source i can study? 19:29:47 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815f94.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:17 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:29 Subfusc: you could try to look at https://github.com/stassats/qt-ide 19:31:02 (it's unfinished and unusable, but works) 19:31:12 -!- musicalchair [~musicalch@192.241.203.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:31:13 the repl part 19:31:23 musicalchair [~musicalch@192.241.203.74] has joined #lisp 19:31:36 Subfusc: in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur0pNQiuKjo 19:32:04 stassats: oh nice 19:32:08 krrrcks_ [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:12 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:13 -!- krrrcks [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:13 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:13 -!- clop [~jared@64.129.166.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:13 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:14 clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:32:54 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 19:33:07 it's another one of long-term plans "replace slime" 19:33:09 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 19:33:39 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 19:34:13 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-142.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:10 Subfusc: another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zyRQlLLSU 19:35:50 stassats: I have to be honest, I really like slime. But an IDE for lisp is not a bad idea for non-emacs lovers 19:36:12 ACL has a simple IDE, and I see people loving that. 19:37:06 i like slime too (i happen to be one of the mainatainers of slime as well), and emacs and emacs lisp inhibit development of some interesting possible features 19:37:24 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:05 -!- DollyDuplex [~git@81.169.150.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:28 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:38:41 DollyDuplex [~git@81.169.150.203] has joined #lisp 19:38:55 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 19:38:57 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:39:04 stassats: elisp actually inhibits development of interesting features? Hmm, thats deffinetly a new one. In what way? 19:39:44 in that one part is common lisp another is in elisp, having to work with to different languages and shuttle the data back and forth is not convenient 19:39:59 s/to/two/ 19:40:33 yeah, that i can understand 19:40:45 I always dreamed of an emacs written entirely in common lisp anyways 19:40:46 :) 19:40:49 -!- silenius [~silenius@41.141.15.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:55 Your dream is shared by many 19:40:58 who haven't! 19:41:34 The fact that no real contenders exist is a mark of shame for the language 19:42:01 i blame slime for being "good-enough" 19:42:31 people suffered through ilisp for years before slime came around 19:42:57 I heard genera had a good common lisp emacs 19:43:08 Subfusc: it has a zetalisp emacs 19:43:11 but I am to young to ever have experienced genera 19:43:16 ah 19:44:04 having a lisp machine would be cool as well 19:44:06 I wonder if a common lisp emacs kickstarter could empower someone to take a year sabbatical 19:44:07 lisp top to bottom 19:44:33 A year seems like a decent enough time to make a pretty good editor 19:45:00 preferably one that can deal with lines of a few million characters each, too :/ 19:45:01 :) 19:45:04 dlowe: I fear that the ammount of common lisp developers - the ones content or invested in slime - the ones that actually hear about the kickstarter would leave a very small number 19:45:05 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:45:15 If the author were to take a full-time sabbatical 19:45:45 but sure, I would kick some bucks into that 19:46:06 Subfusc: Some random guy saying "I'm going to rewrite emacs bit by bit in common lisp" got the whole Internet in an uproar for a few days 19:46:47 dlowe: haha, you can't take on the one and holy emacs 19:46:48 ;) 19:47:08 I wonder if he's still plugging away at it. That seems like the most tedious development ever. 19:47:22 and then end up with another emacs 19:47:51 Presumably better than the C one, but yeah. I didn't really get the point there. 19:47:51 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 19:47:54 I think a re-invention of emacs would be a good thing while they are at it 19:47:54 i deliberatly don't want to copy emacs, maybe just some options to look like emacs 19:48:27 emacs style hotkeys and the minibuffer is things I would still want 19:50:14 If I were going to change anything about emacs, it would be to be able to designate "panes" - windows that couldn't be switched to via other-window and existed for mouse interaction and display 19:50:26 and that stayed put. 19:50:42 agreed 19:50:46 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboo38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:50:53 i.e. not being just text-oriented 19:51:08 I would be even fine with it still being text. 19:51:43 As it is, speedbar has to be in its own frame, for instance, and that's just annoying 19:52:35 *dlowe* shrugs. 19:52:56 also, navigating in the different buffers that are in the window with more intelligence than just C-x o 19:53:04 cycle all of them 19:53:18 Subfusc: meh. You can get your pick of strategies with libraries 19:53:28 eye-tracking 19:53:36 stassats: +1! 19:53:41 I've tried that. 19:53:55 dlowe: and it did not work well enough? 19:54:06 chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:12 thought control? 19:54:19 dlowe: hmm, i havent seen libraries to change that behaviour. Can you link me to one? 19:54:24 H4ns: Not really. This was a while ago, though. 19:54:26 2003 or so 19:55:21 dlowe: with dual monitor setups, i really wanted that several times. might be worth another try 19:55:37 Subfusc: http://lmgtfy.com/search?q=emacs+window+navigation 19:55:52 -!- gosub [d9857234@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.133.114.52] has left #lisp 19:56:01 dlowe: oh, i was hoping for one that you thought was good, but if I have to do all the work myself... :P 19:56:36 i like how if you split windows two on top, one on the bottom, the bottom one being the repl, then do (/ 0), first the debugger pops up in the left top window, after you quit it and do (/ 0) for the second time, it pops in the right window 19:57:16 and then alternates between the two 19:57:26 -!- chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:41 chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 anyway, emacs has many shortcomings, not all of which would be address 19:58:16 ed in another editor 19:58:17 stassats: that happenes for me as well if i split on the middle first, then horisontal split in the left one 19:58:29 -!- chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:50 i usually don't have more than two windows in the same frame, cause it's a pain 19:59:26 ehu [~Erik@089144206050.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 19:59:36 wow, qt-ide crashed my sbcl :) 19:59:58 you need a specially built sbcl 20:00:12 alternatively, it works in ccl 20:00:37 Whats wrong with ordinary sbcl? 20:01:01 ordinary sbcl doesn't support callbacks from foreign threads 20:01:10 did you try to open a file? 20:01:22 no, i just ran (qt-ide:ide) 20:01:34 try (qt-ide:repl) instead 20:01:40 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:44 (qt-ide:ide) doesn't have anything, really 20:01:46 chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:59 i don't think it has foreign callbacks 20:03:28 if it still crashes, build sbcl wit :sb-safepoint :sb-thruption :sb-wtimer 20:04:23 hmm, I'd hope I could just use my systems sbcl 20:04:31 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:04:57 I got some errors telling me that The function QT-IDE::ENUM-ANDC is undefined. 20:05:00 -!- chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:12 that means your commonqt is too old 20:05:23 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:51 chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:39 Running an update now 20:06:42 -!- scott-- [~scott@70-9-7-132.pools.spcsdns.net] has left #lisp 20:06:43 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:43 then one in current quicklisp is the latest one 20:07:02 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:07:38 I installed commonqt a long time ago and tested it, so its probably just out of date 20:08:11 hmm, got an error in compilation 20:09:08 which error? 20:09:34 it didn't manage to run the Makefile 20:09:45 -!- chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:54 you can go to the directory and issue qmake && make 20:09:59 make sure qmake is from qt-4 20:10:01 chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:55 -!- chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:08 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 20:11:22 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:52 chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:04 I got The name "QT-INTERNAL" does not designate any package. while compiling package qt-user 20:13:11 -!- chameco [~samuel@c-50-163-34-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:36 you need to delete all the old fasls 20:13:43 chameco [~samuel@50.163.34.47] has joined #lisp 20:13:54 ah, quicklisp doesnt do that for me, how fun. 20:14:08 new enough ASDF should do that for you 20:14:52 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-146-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:15:21 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-146-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:19 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 20:16:39 Assuming the one i use is the quicklisp one, its 2.26 20:17:01 that's considered "old" now 20:17:35 but does it work now? 20:17:47 no, I can't find any fasl files XD 20:18:00 they're in ~/.cache/common-lisp 20:18:40 oh ofc. 20:18:45 *Subfusc* facepalms 20:19:04 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:07 its getting late here, you must eksuce me 20:19:39 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:38 there we go 20:20:40 all compiled 20:22:56 but can it run? 20:24:15 libertas [~libertas@87.196.63.102] has joined #lisp 20:24:44 stassats: http://tjenen.de/oc/public.php?service=files&t=3c6cf599df06512252f7d8c8de93e3d5 20:25:20 i take it as "yes" 20:25:25 Yes :) 20:25:37 I cant open files thou. Did you say that was a feature? 20:26:34 it's when you do (qt-ide:ide), but opening the open-file dialog will definitely crash your sbcl 20:26:42 hehe 20:26:54 so, don't do that, and it just insersts the contents into the textedit, nothing more 20:26:55 Ill try for the heck of it 20:27:05 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:27:09 i spent more time on the repl, but neither is really usable anyway 20:27:59 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:19 you can also inspect the values and enter the debugger, that's basically all 20:28:31 is there any lisp that compiles to LLVM IR? 20:28:33 and go navigate history with arrow keys 20:28:49 stassats: I could open files .. 20:28:59 Subfusc: what Qt version? 20:29:04 it works on some old ones 20:29:11 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 20:29:16 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 20:29:22 stassats: qt-4.8.5-2.fc19.x86_64 20:29:36 anyway, i'm off 20:30:13 thats not an old qt 20:30:15 afaik 20:30:22 yeah, but whatever 20:30:34 but I'm off as well. Thanks for tanking the time. I will inspect your code 20:30:36 :) 20:30:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:12 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@108.183.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:35:06 ffilozov_ [53224068@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.34.64.104] has joined #lisp 20:35:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:35:42 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 20:36:13 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:37:42 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:38:41 -!- Foxboron [~root@46.246.93.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:11 Does CFFI support Allegro CL 9.0, especially the multiprocessing addition? Can't find much info in the source. 20:39:30 it does 20:40:19 fe[nl]ix: Are you one of the maintainers? 20:40:53 yes 20:41:55 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 -!- ehu [~Erik@089144206050.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:45:06 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:45:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:26 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:47:29 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. My problem lies somewhere else then. 20:49:04 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:51:48 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboo38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:32 ehu [~Erik@089144206050.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 20:52:39 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:52:52 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.136.172] has joined #lisp 20:57:43 -!- ffilozov_ [53224068@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.34.64.104] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:00:45 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:20 sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:20 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:03:20 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 zenbalrog [~user@adsl-98-70-123-117.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 -!- zenbalrog [~user@adsl-98-70-123-117.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~serge@109.134.136.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:13 jstypo [~jstypo@190.75.126.8] has joined #lisp 21:24:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-131-74.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:35 -!- cscorp [~csorp@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 21:27:34 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:30 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-244-178.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:35 Are there any packrat/parser-combinator/PEG packages that operate on streams instead of strings? 21:29:18 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:06 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-230-87.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:32:36 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:33:15 -!- 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