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[~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:09 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 01:44:04 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.138.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:44:35 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:38 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:45:44 normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has joined #lisp 01:45:49 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:14 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:48 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:36 cppiii [~chatzilla@220.232.224.86] has joined #lisp 01:59:12 Quadrescence: So what's up with the test system? 02:00:06 Xach, it is more of a hack job, in order to load everything and test it out. it is also something that really shouldn't be distributed 02:00:23 ok 02:00:40 *Xach* will filter it out 02:01:05 (ql-xach:blacklist SYS-NAME) 02:12:51 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-ibiythfbpuajohkj] has joined #lisp 02:13:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:09 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:21:25 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.155.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29:36 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:51 -!- francisl [~anonymous@69.159.141.5] has quit [Quit: francisl] 02:29:53 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:57 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 02:30:05 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:17 namtsui 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timeout: 248 seconds] 04:05:21 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:06:23 I just asked this same question, verbatim, in the #scheme channel. but i think you guys could give a different perspective, if you'd like: "as someone who has invested a lot of time in scheme books and papers, writing a project in scheme, looking at other people's scheme code, etc, and is interested in lisp and functional programming in general, what do i have to gain from learning Common Lisp, other than a little perspective?" 04:09:10 well, CLOS has some nice design principles that I don't think exist in scheme land 04:09:12 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:35 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:41 Such as? 04:10:45 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:11:31 the MOP stuff, that sort of meta-design 04:12:01 Well, that can all be bolted on -- it was with CL, after all. 04:12:16 sure, i meant doesn't exist now, not couldn't possibly exist. 04:12:19 You can have a look at tinyclos, for example. 04:12:35 It does exist now -- in libraries. 04:12:40 In the context of CL, does MOP refer to "monitor oriented programming"? 04:12:49 chu, meta-object protocol 04:12:55 Hah, :) 04:13:00 the scheme CLOSs i've seen didn't seem nearly as in depth as the mop 04:13:59 Perhaps, but what's the limiting factor there? 04:14:01 everything i've read about CLOS sounds interesting. and "the art of the MOP" is on my reading list, at some point. 04:15:20 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:33 brian: I'd recommend looking at the tinyclos code also -- it makes a lot of things clear. 04:15:45 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:03 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:23 pnpuff [~void@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 04:19:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 04:23:19 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:02 thanks Zhivago 04:29:38 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:32:05 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:32:38 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:35 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:35:04 pnpuff_ [~void@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 04:37:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:38:33 -!- pnpuff [~void@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:38:46 antgreen [~green@207.112.99.60] has joined #lisp 04:40:52 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-243-149.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 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[~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:05:06 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:00 pnpuff [~pit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:14:29 thanks a lot pjb, I'll take into account your advice. 05:14:30 pnpuff, memo from pjb: you should consider #lisp-lab to ask questions about LISP 1.5 05:34:17 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b0065.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:48 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-41-234.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 05:38:36 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-41-234.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:39:30 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-41-234.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Client Quit] 05:42:45 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-41-234.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:44:05 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:37 -!- fenton 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Operation timed out] 07:24:59 oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.174.210] has joined #lisp 07:26:52 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:715d:c5e5:aaad:feca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:01 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:29 loke [~user@42.61.218.195] has joined #lisp 07:28:32 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:26 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:44 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:36:45 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:38:33 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:39:17 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:39:30 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:43:30 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 07:43:50 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 07:46:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-184-80.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:00 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 07:48:23 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 07:54:39 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 08:03:10 -!- loke [~user@42.61.218.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:03:13 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:07:04 loke [~user@42.61.218.195] has joined #lisp 08:08:06 I think that image-based development and strong focus on REPL are rather exciting characteristics of CL that scheme lacks 08:08:21 perhaps not scheme48 08:08:38 matko [~matko@ip82-139-123-169.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:14:44 bitonic [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 08:15:36 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-189.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:57 jeremybi [~user@183.157.160.15] has joined #lisp 08:17:45 -!- jeremybi [~user@183.157.160.15] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:18:01 aspect: what do you mean by image-based development? 08:19:09 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:11 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:23 imzjuer [~user@183.157.160.15] has joined #lisp 08:23:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:23:32 -!- vterron [~vterron@udit65.iaa.csic.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:24:39 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:25:42 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 08:27:32 -!- imzjuer [~user@183.157.160.15] has left #lisp 08:29:15 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 08:31:33 pnpuff [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:31:50 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32:44 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:07 -!- pnpuff [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 08:33:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:34:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:35:30 Developing in a live system, and then dumping the system state to disk for later resumption. 08:35:37 Personally, I'm not a fan of it. 08:37:14 pnpuff [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:37:18 ... keeping control is hard in such system 08:38:33 maybe in a lisp with equivalent of appdomains, and versioning stacked on top of it 08:38:42 I think that it made economic sense back in the dark ages when building and loading a complex system took an appreciable amount of time. 08:38:54 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:39:02 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.153.77] has joined #lisp 08:39:46 actually, I sometimes wonder if it's not related in a way to MACLISP 08:39:54 I feel it is better for long time running tasks 08:39:58 or to be specific, to ITS on which MACLISP ran 08:40:19 "dumping image to disk" is how one configured and installed ITS 08:40:44 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:12 I don't see why it's an advantage for long running tasks. 08:41:12 zRecursive: you might want to look into Erlang/OTP, then - it shows IMO a much better take on long-running, upgradeable processes 08:41:15 Well, arguably that's not really how to develop in Lisp 08:41:32 Really, you want to design for tasks being randomly killed, these days. 08:42:07 Zhivago: or think in terms of systems composed of components that might randomly die (a'la erlang) 08:42:24 Sure. 08:42:28 My stumpwm is a long time running app :) 08:42:56 zRecursive: my Firefox is a *very* long running app 08:43:05 i can slime-connect to it at any time 08:43:05 FSVO running 08:43:23 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:43:25 to custmize it 08:43:37 *p_l* has an instance of Firefox somewhere that he is pretty sure survived a complete system rebuild 08:44:11 (and which had less than 10 true restarts in last 4 years) 08:44:36 Since using stumpwm, i donot need any calculators now :) 08:45:31 Just pressing a key, i can do any lisp evaluation 08:46:03 VERY convenient 08:48:06 -!- pnpuff [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 08:53:22 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.203.144] has left #lisp 08:57:46 pnpuff [~v@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:02:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:05:15 anyone tried to use a CL OS on the linux kernel? 09:07:38 operating system that is 09:08:14 the closest that I have seen to that was running 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11:12:30 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 11:12:33 Xach what did you imagine? :) 11:13:33 zRecursive: because it does not end 11:14:12 stassats: there is (quit) 11:14:21 so what? 11:14:33 only pressing 9 will reach quit 11:14:47 theos: would be nice learn PDP-10 machine language ... 11:15:42 stassats: (shell ...) doesnot return ? 11:15:55 shell doesn't care 11:16:04 xinit does not exit until the program it launches exits 11:16:36 pnpuff- to do what? 11:16:36 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-41-234.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:16:38 shell is not exec, too 11:16:41 if you want to get rid of lisp.run, you have to use exec 11:17:15 clhs exec 11:17:16 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for exec. 11:17:21 man exec 11:17:22 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/exec.1.html 11:17:36 francisl [~anonymous@69.159.141.5] has joined #lisp 11:18:00 (shell "exec xinit") ? 11:18:26 no 11:18:55 that's the wrong man page, you need exec(3) 11:19:24 i am using FreeBSD 11:19:49 congratulations 11:19:58 what ? 11:20:25 are you not happy? then "my condolences" 11:20:36 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-205-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:01 of course not 11:21:16 just find a solution 11:21:41 -!- Guest42329 [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:22:17 exec is pretty standard syscall :) 11:22:21 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:37 but it is CL script 11:22:41 (and OSX emulated unix syscalls are 4.2/4.3/4.4 BSD descent) 11:23:04 zRecursive: and you need to operate *with* the OS it is running on, according to said OS' concepts 11:23:19 in this case, to call something that will end up executing exec() 11:23:31 (without forking, that is) 11:23:51 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 11:23:51 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:38 zRecursive: try some run-program function of your implementation 11:25:03 spacefrogg: you're not helping. 11:25:04 that won't help 11:25:21 spacefrogg: it is CLISP 11:25:35 spacefrogg: in order to not return to the chooser once his chosen WM exits, he needs to either monitor WM exit himself, or use exec() 11:26:21 but how to use exec() in CL script ? 11:26:23 p_l: it already exits when subprocess exits 11:26:59 -!- cppiii [~chatzilla@220.232.224.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:27:29 uiop/run-program:run-program 11:27:54 jdz: right 11:28:26 still, it will stay running till its children finishes, clisp's 'shell' is afaik equivalent of system(), right? 11:30:03 the original version: http://lpaste.net/91053 11:30:41 ... which acts *exactly* the same, including staying in memory 11:31:23 p_l: seems NOT staying in memory 11:31:43 just use the goddamn exec 11:32:00 in CL script ? 11:32:13 in whichever script 11:32:48 oh 11:32:49 zRecursive: it does. It's simply possible you are missing the running csh (also, CSH?? in this age??) 11:34:22 (it's easy to not notice an extra shell here or there, even when you know *every* *single* *process* running on your machine) 11:34:49 maybe you are right 11:34:59 s/maybe// 11:35:15 kanru [~kanru@byebi.wara.tw] has joined #lisp 11:36:15 zRecursive: one of the few areas I feel confident in is these details like OS interaction with syscalls in unix :) 11:37:23 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:30 http://lpaste.net/91055 ? 11:37:56 that's not common lisp 11:38:30 sure, but i donot know how to use exec() in CL script ? 11:38:42 zRecursive: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/shell.html 11:38:46 using foreign function interface, naturally 11:40:06 ok, delving into FFI ... 11:40:43 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:03 yes, do it, since reading documentation is harder 11:41:17 alternately, you could (shell "sh -c 'xinit &'") 11:42:09 another one 11:42:16 aspect: great 11:43:23 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@46.255.116.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:43:38 -!- doomlord_ [~doomlod@46.255.116.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:45:42 jdz: stassats: I tried run-program myself and it works perfectly 11:46:15 it does? 11:46:50 I think so. Maybe I misinterpreted the problem statement... 11:47:37 I understood that the lisp script should end as soon as the right WM is chosen and started. 11:47:50 zRecursive: Was that your intention? 11:47:53 actually... I am starting to think that for all the extra modules in CLISP, they don't seem to have any built-in way of calling exec(3) 11:48:01 spacefrogg: yeah 11:48:23 p_l: except ext:execute? 11:48:37 zRecursive: Then as I said earlier: try some form of the function run-program. It is an implementation-defined function 11:48:39 jdz: checked, it's plain old fork+exec, not just exec 11:49:03 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:49:05 well, windows doesn't support it, so ... 11:49:14 spacefrogg: ok 11:49:30 Zhivago: EXT:EXECUTE is already marked as UNIX only 11:49:35 mc40 [~mc40@host109-148-39-100.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:41 zRecursive: being implementation defined. it might not work with CLISP 11:49:43 p_l: that's totally something i personally would not expect 11:49:53 good thing i don't use clisp 11:50:42 -!- kanru [~kanru@byebi.wara.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:26 jdz: CL scripts is elegant than UGLY shell(s) script 11:52:06 zRecursive: anc clisp is only one of many Common Lisp implementations 11:52:14 fwiw, using CSH is asking for ugly 11:52:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:52:57 p_l: yeah, sh is even better than csh 11:54:33 time to leave now, thanks for all your suggestion(s) 11:54:47 p_l: have you tried the :may-exec parameter? 11:55:16 p_l: and :indirect nil? 11:55:47 oh, that's default 11:55:53 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:56:13 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@182.139.86.123] has left #lisp 11:56:18 why do they have 4 functions instead of one? 11:57:03 jdz: because it's clisp, I guess 11:57:40 milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-130-125.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:58:15 *p_l* finally found an exec syscall. In IOLIB 12:00:05 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:56 support for exec() syscall is curiously absent in lisp implementations, it seems 12:00:56 pff, apparently my linux is not unix enough for clisp (my clisp 2.49 does not have :may-exec or :indirectp arguments) 12:01:05 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 12:01:06 lol 12:01:51 oh, now i sure can find a way to read that :indirectp is win32 only 12:02:06 (do they support win64?) 12:02:22 maybe GNU/Linux it's only Unix-like 12:02:24 jdz: the win64 afaik applies to APIs that are 64bit-only 12:03:09 walk-away message: screw clisp, i have better things to do 12:03:19 heh 12:03:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:51 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 12:07:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:08:19 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 12:10:33 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:10:46 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.62.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:08 clisp's run-shell-command code is a dangling parenthesis paradise 12:11:27 one would've thought that implementations have some minimal style standards 12:11:31 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host109-148-39-100.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 12:13:17 ehu [~ehu@31.137.62.203] has joined #lisp 12:14:18 p_l: fe[nl]ix told me on #iolib to use iolib/os:run-prorgam and iolib/os:create-process instead of its inner isys:execv an isys:execvp 12:15:06 not quite 12:15:09 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-189.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:15:34 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:15:35 if what you want is to replace the current image, then the raw execv is what you must use 12:15:51 I thought you wanted to spawn a subprocess 12:16:10 my mistake then 12:17:22 -!- milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-130-125.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:19:51 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 12:19:55 Hmm, I can't pull from github git:// urls today. I wonder what's up or down. 12:20:45 the number of CL projects is so high, that pulling them all from github for Quicklisp at once makes it go down 12:20:49 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003a4a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:22 Xach: https://status.github.com/ 12:22:06 but that was only 2 minutes ago 12:22:24 reported as such, anyway 12:22:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-184-80.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:27:49 heh. i checked there before i wrote on IRC but it was green 12:28:00 loke` [~user@119.234.0.59] has joined #lisp 12:30:09 -!- loke [~user@42.61.218.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:31:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:33:11 -!- agumonkey [~agu@245.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:54 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-012-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 12:39:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:20 milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 12:40:30 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:50 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:53 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 12:41:11 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:41:43 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 12:42:13 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:13 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 12:47:21 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:49:35 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:23 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-132-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:17 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:26 G'morning all. 12:52:07 hi nyef 12:52:19 mornz 12:52:36 Does anyone else see a bug in Joe Marshall's given example for pstore::restore-instance? 12:52:38 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:53:15 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 12:53:53 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:55:18 agumonkey [~agu@245.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:25 I'll even give a hint: CALL-NEXT-METHOD and applicable methods. Anyone? 12:57:27 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:58:05 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-83-136.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:26 hmmmm since schema-version becomes 1 it doesn't match the (eql 0) anymore so it isn't the same method? 13:00:23 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-88-86.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:33 -!- francisl [~anonymous@69.159.141.5] has quit [Quit: francisl] 13:00:43 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:01:08 Yeah, it's listed under "Exceptional Situations" in the page for CALL-NEXT-METHOD, and "an error of type ERROR should be signalled". 13:01:41 it was a guess. it's been a long time since I studied the finer details of CLOS method signatures. 13:01:43 I'm against object stores, anyway 13:01:58 Yeah, I'm not a fan of object stores myself. 13:02:49 i'm against other than mine object stores 13:03:18 On the other hand, I realized yesterday that my current ad-hoc ORM design is entirely screwed up, and I don't currently have time to fix the worst of it. 13:03:47 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-rlqrynfzcjbmspyf] has joined #lisp 13:03:48 -!- pnpuff- [~v@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:04:08 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:21 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:05:47 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:16 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:07:13 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:07:34 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 13:08:26 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:12 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:09:35 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-132-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:21 fe[nl]ix: why? 13:12:38 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:12:39 Blkt: They're too easy to corrupt, schema evolution is generally a royal pain, there's typically no support for using external tools to view your data, quite often they are primarily an in-memory store... I could go on? 13:13:13 that's enough :D 13:14:10 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:19 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 13:15:28 Oh, right, and recovering a corrupt object store? Eesh... 13:15:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:58 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 13:15:58 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 13:15:58 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:16:01 that doesn't sound like inherent problems 13:16:04 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:21 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:16:28 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-rlqrynfzcjbmspyf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:16:37 that's correct 13:16:39 willijar [~quassel@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 13:16:46 Plausibly not, but I find that a SQL database addresses all of these issues already, typically with a good track record of reliability. 13:17:13 And it's easier to find people who know how to deal with an SQL system than with a random object store. 13:17:21 but it would require man-decades of work to make one as reliable as the best SQL DBs of today 13:18:50 So... hire forty people to work on it, and we'll have one by November? 13:19:25 four hundreds, it scales... 13:19:52 The problem being that reliability issues are typically only found over long-term use. 13:19:57 nyef: dumping sexps is easy to recover 13:20:06 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:53 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:21:34 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:23:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:26:46 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:55 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:28:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:28:47 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-123-169.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:27 -!- willijar [~quassel@134.151.144.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:46 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:30:21 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 13:30:50 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:03 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-wiwvnklbwqqyjsqv] has joined #lisp 13:31:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:36:47 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:39:08 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:39:28 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:40:33 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-83-136.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:43:07 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-88-86.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz] 16:44:05 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:05 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 16:44:40 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:47:02 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:49:15 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:49:43 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:50:39 xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn121.78-99-138.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 16:51:47 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn121.78-99-138.t-com.sk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@d205-250-223-135.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:45 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-067-127.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:06 *stassats* adds a wonderful ability to specify timeouts to his equally wonderfully named inotify library 16:53:28 nice 16:53:32 which took just 1 line, thanks to iolibs wait-until-fd-ready 16:53:42 I like and have used said lib. :) 16:54:22 documentation changes required more lines than the actual code 16:55:35 *stassats* faces fierce competition from cl-inotify 16:56:23 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:24 stassats: What platforms does it work on? 16:56:38 whichever has inotify 16:57:31 stassats: Wouldn't it make more sense to have a more generic API so that one would eb able to integrate support for OSX, Solaris and Windows as well? 16:57:41 it wouldn't 16:57:56 i don't use either of the listed 16:58:28 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.62.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:49 and i didn't intened it to be used by anybody else, but somebody did and it's even in Quicklisp 16:58:57 my only piece of code which is in Quicklisp 16:59:35 your split-spaces will be in there 16:59:38 :) 17:00:18 split-spaces ?? 17:00:37 that's actually inside quicklisp 17:00:39 doesn't count! 17:00:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 271 seconds] 17:01:54 What is split-spaces? 17:02:07 banach tarsky implementation 17:02:17 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 17:02:35 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:37 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has left #lisp 17:02:40 divides the universe into two equal parts 17:02:49 granata [~aleksei@sa-84-52-48-19.saturn.infonet.ee] has joined #lisp 17:03:56 stassats: where's the code ? 17:04:01 I don't see it on github 17:04:33 fe[nl]ix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138023#2 17:04:52 (i may have exaggerated a bit) 17:05:10 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:10 (second conversation today where Banach-Tarski has come up) 17:06:56 cl-deny-axiom-of-choice 17:07:25 (other conversation was in /r/math on reddit looking for non-intuitive math that didn't involve the infinite, but the person who brought up B-T got smacked down as definitely infinite.) 17:07:29 patrickwonders: it's the same one, reconstructed using banach-tarski 17:07:49 *patrickwonders* grins... 17:08:06 conversations are homeomorphic to spheres. 17:17:46 stassats: do you have a twitter account ? 17:18:31 of course not! 17:19:32 fe[nl]ix: What is the point of twitter? 17:21:11 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:18 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:21:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:57 I learn new Lisp things via twitter. 17:23:10 It has also been helpful to coordinate with people at the same Lisp events as me. 17:23:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@245.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:52 Xach: How? When I tried twitter I found it impossible to have anything resembling a conversion with multiple people on it. 17:23:59 I think a description of twitter as microblogging is apt. 17:24:35 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-012-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:43 loke`: I don't use it much for conversation. I use it to receive and broadcast short bits of information. 17:25:07 Like: Go check out this cool site with 1980s CL standardization mailing list archive dumps. 17:26:12 daat418 [~daat_un@chammerling-mini.xinet.COM] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 -!- daat418 [~daat_un@chammerling-mini.xinet.COM] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:47 I can't make you get anything out of twitter, but I get something out of it, so it can be done. 17:28:03 there's #lisp for this 17:28:05 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 17:28:41 #lisp has way too much stuff 17:29:01 important information can get lost 17:29:21 stassats: It's a good source of info, in a different way 17:29:28 Xach: Yeah, I was mainly curious as to how you do it. 17:29:53 Xach: This is because I see a lot of "media" people talk about twitter, but I know no one who actually uses it. 17:30:56 ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 17:31:03 in my experience, twitter is sort of like an irc channel but more spread out and slower. i may think this because i use it through my irc client. 17:31:18 Bike: interesting 17:32:09 hi guys. can you help with a simple question? http://paste.lisp.org/display/138114 17:32:25 Bike: twitter is the dumbest communication channel you can imagine. 17:32:47 (I can say, I'm using it (a little) as @ogamita). 17:32:49 Clearly me and Xach are polar opposites in terms of how we communicate online (with the intersection happening here on IRC). I use G+ mainly, which (as far as I understand) Xach does not like. 17:33:10 granata: have the cond form be the entirety of the function. 17:33:44 pjb: I find it quite useful 17:33:51 granata: the problem statement is misleading. Your first cond clause is correct, but you've not modified the list! 17:34:03 fe[nl]ix: not to discuss. 17:34:18 To shout on the public place, perhaps. 17:34:41 But an announce post on usenet seems to me more efficient. 17:34:44 As far as I can tell, Twitter is mainly a broadcasting medium. A way for publishers to publish links? 17:35:06 often, but people do that on irc too. 17:37:43 can you discuss twitter on twitter? 17:38:27 Any of you guys use G+? 17:38:50 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:22 ckoch786_ [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 no 17:45:17 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:46:22 i just use twitter for its low-barrier of entry; no interface, circles, feeds, or whatever. 17:47:17 j_king: interesting. 17:48:35 loke`: just means I don't "share" stuff unless it's with the general public. i do my social networking irl. 17:49:14 Same for me actually. The only things I share non-public are family photos. 17:50:34 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:51:05 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-67-85.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:25 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:50 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-60-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:54:47 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:57 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:22 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 18:00:16 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-34.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:02:44 -!- loke` [~user@119.234.0.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:42 agumonkey [~agu@245.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:14 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:12:53 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-67-85.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:27 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:49 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:49 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:19:13 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:13 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:23 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 18:19:25 Ulysses22222 [~daniel@185.3.146.112] has joined #lisp 18:20:57 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:42 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 18:23:03 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:23:19 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:23 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:46 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 18:25:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:25:16 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:23 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:25:32 MusangKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-36-145.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:25:36 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:43 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:23 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:38 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:32:17 back to the subject of object stores, rdbmses, etc.... If I were looking to replace rucksack and wanted to somehow store my "objects" in something besides a rucksack, where should I begin? seems like there are a great many half-baked solutions to the problem. 18:32:34 ChangeSafe!! 18:33:00 not really. 18:33:00 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:35 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:46 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B1A3D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:13 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 18:41:27 przl [~przlrkt@p4fe640f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:51 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:23 chturne [~charles@host86-129-183-85.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:23 -!- chturne [~charles@host86-129-183-85.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:45:24 -!- Codynyx [~cody@75.72.187.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@245.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:13 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:08 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 slyrus: postgres 18:52:20 it would be great if (ql:quickload 'postgres) just worked :) 18:52:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:07 slyrus: We may need more information in order to answer your query. What kind of data are you storing? What's the update rate? .... 18:54:48 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:58:19 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:44 the update rate is infrequent. i have a graph of on the order of 1e7 objects that will change infrequently. I could just load the objects into memory and save a core but that seems ... clunky 18:59:13 slyrus: if you're OK with saving a core, saving a fasl might work for you. 18:59:30 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@216.161.16.87] has joined #lisp 18:59:39 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:30 interesting. that's probably less bad. 19:00:42 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:00:44 -!- electromancer [~electroma@cpe-198-72-207-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:04 still not portable 19:01:56 the fasls don't need to be portable, but the machinery for making the fasls should be (and I guess isn't) 19:02:38 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:51 slyrus: sure it is. 19:03:08 (compile-file "foo.lisp") foo.lisp: (defparameter *foo* #.*foo*). 19:03:31 '#.*foo* if it might look like a sexp 19:03:56 huh. ok, thanks. 19:05:13 i'm also old-fashioned and like the idea that my data won't necessarily fit into memory, but I suppose I need to get over that one. 19:10:49 -!- MusangKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-36-145.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-99-241.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:03 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-36-145.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:15:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:23:04 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:33 jangle [~jimmy1984@198.151.8.4] has joined #lisp 19:23:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-101.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:24:50 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:50 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:26:04 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:10 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:27:19 vlion [~vlion@66-87-69-240.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:40 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:39 ffilozov [~user@171.Red-79-158-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:16 -!- milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:19 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:34:28 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-132-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:35:49 _malicious [~cs@elderberry.cs.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:36:46 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-132-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:12 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-132-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:24 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 19:38:13 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-132-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:54 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 19:45:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4fe640f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:45:48 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jagaj] 19:47:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:49:36 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE640F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:22 -!- trigen- is now known as trigen 19:50:57 -!- vlion [~vlion@66-87-69-240.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:54:54 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:04 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:55:30 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:54 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 19:59:10 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:59:20 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 19:59:21 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:00:24 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:00:34 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:00:45 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:00:48 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:00:59 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:01:00 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:30 agumonkey [~agu@245.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:06 milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-130-125.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:03:33 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:48 -!- ffilozov [~user@171.Red-79-158-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:56 vlion [~vlion@66-87-69-240.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:36 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:05:21 barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:56 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-238-88.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:06 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:06:14 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:09:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:58 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-67-85.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:12:06 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:13:26 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:13:33 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:14:13 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-238-88.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:45 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:15:20 redintellect [~master@2.178.151.166] has joined #lisp 20:15:29 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 20:15:55 hi 20:16:03 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 anyone behind keyboard here? 20:16:23 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 20:16:30 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:16:47 nobody 20:16:49 Nope. 20:17:33 josemanuel [~josemanue@93.170.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:17:48 josaphat [~Josaphat@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:56 then I suppose you're using speech2text or something like that 20:18:13 anyways I was wondering about lisp lately 20:18:29 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@93.170.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:30 I'm preparing for a programming contest 20:19:03 it doesn't support lisp but I was wondering if lisp could give a C programmer a new perspective on the design 20:19:20 design of algorithms to be specific 20:20:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:20:28 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:36 It might, but the follow-up questions are if the new perspective is useful, how long it takes to obtain said new perspective, and so on. 20:21:10 And this may or may not be the time to learn Lisp, depending on how much lead time you have for that contest. 20:22:26 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2285.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:52 I see 20:24:12 camm` [~user@nat-tvwna-outside-visitornet2-c-179.princeton.org] has joined #lisp 20:24:49 -!- camm` [~user@nat-tvwna-outside-visitornet2-c-179.princeton.org] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:50 so how long does it take a mediocre mind to code say a binary search algorithm with lisp, 2 hours a day? 20:25:11 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:25:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:39 damn I'm not making sense 20:25:45 If you can program in another language that wouldn't take long 20:26:03 sorry for my English 20:26:10 camm` [~user@nat-tvwna-outside-visitornet2-c-179.princeton.org] has joined #lisp 20:26:52 thank you very much 20:27:42 I'm not sure how much lisp would influence your perspective on c programming. The two languages are based on very different philosophies. 20:27:45 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 20:29:26 I know I want to gain perspective on problem solving using lisp 20:29:31 *nibalizer* wves to nightl 20:29:46 *nibalizer* wavest to nightfly 20:29:53 On the other hand, I found that learning Objective-C drastically affected my Lisp programming style, though that may have been the simultaneous exposure to a culture of comprehensive unit testing. 20:30:03 *nightfly* waves back 20:30:28 I see. 20:31:25 I was advised to learn Python, C and lisp respectively, in order to sharpen my skills 20:32:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:30 It'd be nice if such advice came with an indication of what to focus on in each language, and how they're expected to sharpen your skills... 20:34:24 I have to ask the professor again then, the problem is he's mostly out of reach. 20:34:29 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 learning is pretty hard sometimes where I live 20:39:35 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 20:39:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:42:55 -!- vlion [~vlion@66-87-69-240.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:43:42 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2285.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:53 xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-202-68.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 anton__ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 20:50:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:36 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 20:52:46 -!- barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit 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[~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:15:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-127-219.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:48 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:56 -!- daat418 [~daat_un@chammerling-mini.xinet.COM] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:17:23 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:17:36 AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:18:07 is there a good article on how the build process of a lisp works? 21:19:02 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:31 I guess each implementation would be maintaining such a document separately, or I'm not understanding the question 21:20:05 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:45 -!- 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timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:08 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 21:35:17 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:21 drmeister [~drmeister@174.1.114.236] has joined #lisp 21:39:49 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:40:32 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@174.1.114.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:25 turbopape [~turbopape@197.1.68.182] has joined #lisp 21:48:15 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:46 hi, is find's default test eql? 21:51:50 can't find it in chls 21:52:26 yes. 21:53:03 Bike_: thanks 21:53:33 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:54:29 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:55:41 -!- 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has joined #lisp 23:36:26 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:24 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:12 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:39:52 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.155.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:25 platoscave [~platoscav@adsl-99-111-12-51.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:29 -!- platoscave [~platoscav@adsl-99-111-12-51.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:41:46 platoscave [~platoscav@adsl-99-111-12-51.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:49 -!- platoscave [~platoscav@adsl-99-111-12-51.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:42:58 platoscave [~platoscav@adsl-99-111-12-51.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:01 -!- platoscave [~platoscav@adsl-99-111-12-51.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:46:33 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:12 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:48:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@216.112-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:49:14 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:16 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:37 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:56:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:56:52 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:24 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:31 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:13 nightfly: How about http://paste.lisp.org/display/138119 for a lisp influence on a C programmer?