00:02:27 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:07:52 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-33-15.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:08:50 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-158-47.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 00:10:44 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:53 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:34 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:17:59 Kait [~Kait@n227s053.ntc.harrisonburg.shentel.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:06 -!- Kait [~Kait@n227s053.ntc.harrisonburg.shentel.net] has left #lisp 00:20:32 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-158-47.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:20:47 can someone explain shadowed symbols to me? 00:21:07 it's the symbols on which the sun doesn't shine 00:21:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:21:53 insightful 00:21:59 anyway, I think I understand 00:22:01 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-239-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:10 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:22 you could read clhs 00:22:23 it just clones an external symbol and makes it as if it was a symbol native in a package 00:22:30 stassats`: I have been 00:22:35 sorry if sometimes it's not clear enough 00:22:46 then you should ask more specific questions 00:23:00 am I right? 00:24:19 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-239-68.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-227-204.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:24:38 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-239-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:09 it creates an internal symbol, and then any symbols which are USEd are ignored 00:25:18 s/creates/interns/ 00:25:50 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:27:16 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:30 If you were writing your own version of FIND-SYMBOL, it would look through the set shadowing symbols before it looked through the set of inherited symbols. 00:28:10 It would also consult the shadowing set before signaling an inheritance symbol conflict. 00:28:27 "it" being the package system, not your find-symbol. 00:28:51 and not signal the error if it's shadowed 00:29:04 Right. 00:31:04 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:32:05 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:32:14 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 00:32:47 theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has joined #lisp 00:34:02 -!- theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has quit [Client Quit] 00:37:46 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:38:37 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:41:31 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.122] has joined #lisp 00:48:02 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:53:16 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:57 xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-129-82.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:52 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:13 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:38 theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has joined #lisp 01:02:24 Norvig here: http://norvig.com/lispy.html says you only need 6 "special forms" for Lisp.....nowhere do i see a car, cdr or atom function!?!?!? how does he get *pieces* of lists? 01:02:41 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:32 (quote, if, set!, define, lambda, variables, constants and procedure calls) 01:03:49 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:21 oops forgot begin 01:04:44 theseb: those are functions, not special forms 01:05:15 theseb: you can encode conses with functions, anyway. 01:05:48 Bike: how would you define a cons with a lambda? 01:06:21 or a car or cdr? i don't see it 01:06:30 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:06:34 theseb: Do you have your copy of SICP handy? 01:06:40 (defun cons (a b) (lambda (msg) (case msg ((car) a) ((cdr) b) (t (error "no"))))) (defun car (cons) (funcall cons 'car)) (defun cdr (cons) (funcall cons 'cdr)) 01:06:41 same as you would any object 01:06:43 is one way. 01:07:21 *aspect* glad I didn't write that .. it looks very different, mostly simpler, in scheme :-) 01:07:49 what's different in scheme, other than the funcalls? 01:08:47 Xach: not with me but at home yes 01:08:57 pretty much just defun and funcall, but they're prominent enough in that snippet that I can argue justification in using "very" 01:09:19 *Bike* shrugs. 01:09:23 Xach: oh now that you mention it...in chapter 2 there was something about redefining cons, cdr and car with lambda iirc 01:09:33 yes, sicp covers this. 01:09:39 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:09:44 basically, lambda calculus is TC for a reason, you know? 01:09:54 theseb: See section 2.1.3, page 91 01:10:34 actually i do have SICP with me..i see it ...yes... 01:12:08 IIRC, Arc was implemented with a minimal set of special forms 01:12:26 only lambda i assume. no need for conditionals, really 01:12:33 not that Arc is really a example of an implementation done right 01:13:37 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:13:58 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:18 surely I'm not the only one here who twitches when arc gets mentioned 01:14:32 It went away after a few years for me. 01:15:10 Xach: yeah, but then it came back ... probably because I started occasionally reading HN and once more saw mention of it 01:16:39 yeah, I can't find the article where he said he defined few special forms 01:17:23 doesn't mccarthy's paper reduce it to the ~6 forms? 01:18:51 *aspect* quite liked pg's treatment of that, though since arc I don't like so much to admit it . 01:19:16 aspect: I'm trying to find if Arch works that way 01:20:09 You could just read the implementation and see that it doesn't define especially few special forms. 01:20:10 don't bother, imo .. for one, iirc it's implemented as a library on racket so it wouldn't make much sense to reduce everything to lambda 01:21:22 I don't think Arc is a library on racket 01:23:02 That will depend on your definition of "library". 01:23:28 maybe it's a domain nonspecific language 01:24:20 heh 01:24:49 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25:18 estebistec [~estebiste@cpe-72-133-228-205.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:13 even if Arc was implemented in Racket, it's not the same thing as being an Racket library, as much as Emacs Lisp is not a C library 01:26:53 not necessarily the same thing, true 01:27:31 Denommus: Its not just implemented _in_ Racket, its implement as Racket macros, therefore closer to a library. IIRC. 01:27:38 implemented* 01:28:32 -!- theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has left #lisp 01:29:04 sellout: I understood that's what it was implied, I just don't think this is true, although the only things I know about Arc are the things I read on PG's essays. I never actually download the language 01:29:51 hm. It seems it is true, indeed 01:30:31 it's even worse, because it requires an older version of MzScheme 01:30:37 ... 01:30:52 what a disappointment (and I didn't like the language already) 01:31:24 And the current version is over three years old. 01:32:36 it doesn't seem exactly like a library, only an interpreter implemented in Scheme 01:37:03 I hear that instead of parens, it uses actual rainbows 01:38:33 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 01:38:40 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host137.186-125-119.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:30 -!- hwiersma2 [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:45:32 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:48:27 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:48:31 antgreen [~green@207.112.101.211] has joined #lisp 01:48:58 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:20 redSnow 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[~user@123.120.224.104] has joined #lisp 06:06:37 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.224.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:46 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.241.78] has joined #lisp 06:08:48 krsree [~sreekumar@125.16.89.134] has joined #lisp 06:10:53 echo-area [~user@123.120.224.104] has joined #lisp 06:13:29 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c28fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:14 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:21:33 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:25:29 good morning, or whenever you read this :) 06:26:07 do you guys like to set readtable-case to :preserve, especially for DSLs? 06:26:25 no 06:26:27 are there any good reasons against doing that? 06:28:15 sometime case sensitivity is nice to have, i think 06:28:56 Mostly case insensitivity is a pain, and I don't think that people make use of it. 06:29:06 But turning it off is also painful. 06:32:03 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:33 i did it three lines, two for backing up the initial one and one for switching. and if you have a DSL you just put case property there 06:39:42 BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:40:24 for case-sensitive common lisp :invert is better, as i see. (eq :aaa :aAa) being null is kinda cool 06:43:51 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:48:05 Gooder` [~user@22.155.200.192.client.dyn.strong-in144.as13926.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:16 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:37 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-rzhrtauijbdwlhgd] has joined #lisp 06:54:00 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:54:35 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:54:53 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:56:35 I'm for case insensetivity, who needs difference between getChar and getchar? 06:57:26 nobody, everyone uses get-char 06:57:39 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 06:58:03 I came from C world, everybody use getChar there. 06:58:03 Joreji [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:58:49 C is mostly like COBOL, it ugly and inefficient. 06:59:36 hi, as I work a lot in excel I thought of somehow using lisp in the everyday excel (and VBA) life, e.g. writing a interpreter/compiler or generating an excel compatible xml, any suggestions/ideas where to start? I'm just a novice lisp programmer but I'd like to start working on something more complicated to get some experience 07:01:43 hitechnologys: Please troll elsewhere. 07:03:12 cl-ppcre is a good thing to have when working with text, i guess 07:03:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:04:17 oh, and cl-who can generate strict xml 07:04:56 Zhivago: I'm not trolling, I used to write on C and I don't like it at all. This is just my opinion, I didn't want to offence anyone. 07:05:05 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:05:58 pavelpenev [~quassel@95-42-16-247.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:06:35 hitecnologys: donot you think it is C construct the whole 'world' ? 07:06:40 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos217.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:08:04 You used to write getChar in C? :) 07:08:53 Zhivago: it was just an example but I prefer this type of naming if you meant that. 07:10:15 zRecursive: yes, I know this, but COBOL is still used in lots of things and it doesn't make it good language. Of course if you use it wisely you can write good code on it but most people ignore this. 07:10:35 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:34d5:401d:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:11:06 kpreid_ [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:11 cobol programmers can't hear you from their stacks of money 07:11:16 sid_cypher: is it even possible or worth compiling lisp to vba? there's many things missing in vba, e.g. higher order functions, macros, lambdas, the class system is pretty weak... 07:11:22 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:11:30 xificurC: it's not worth it 07:11:33 it is possible 07:12:18 xificurC: sorry, never touched vba. my guess is "possible, not worth it", too 07:12:59 too bad, I work in it a lot 07:13:28 stassats`: you're absolutely right 07:13:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:13:37 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 07:13:41 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:14:55 xificurC: there must be a grammar description for vba that you can load into a parser generator 07:15:24 so you can parse it, modify AST with macros and print back 07:15:27 xificurC: I think that it's not worth it because CL is mostly faster and more expressive than vba. (wrote last script on vba 3 years ago) 07:15:34 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:10 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.0.204] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:16:16 obviously lisp is an ultimate scripting language, but "must use vba" could be a constraint 07:16:39 sid_cypher: that I did not understand. probably because i am a self-learned programmer 07:17:21 hitecnologys: i am talking about my work where i have to deliver excel files that work on some kind of a macro (VBA) principle 07:17:43 xificurC: just grit your teeth and use VBA 07:18:07 didn't someone here used to integrate Excel with CL? 07:18:20 xificurC: I learned (and still learning) by myself too, started reading C++ books when I was 9. 07:18:32 xificurC: i'll give you an example for C language: http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/ANSI-C-grammar-y.html or http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/bnf/c_syntax.bnf 07:19:07 hitecnologys: well i seriously started a year ago. I learned a bit of pascal and c++ at school but nothing too big 07:19:18 xificurC: if you need simple VBA scripts you may try to write DSL for it. 07:19:47 p_l: there was a blogpost (on p.l.o) that described the excel->cl bridge 07:20:23 p_l: http://abcl-dev.blogspot.com/2013/03/mft-excel-format-from-common-lisp.html http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2013/03/dealing-with-excel-files-from-common.html 07:21:53 sid_cypher: so using that grammar description you could parse C and then somehow modify it? 07:22:04 I once tried to write CL to excel converter but got heart attack right after I opened specification of excel format. 07:22:11 antoszka: more like excel->java->abcl bridge :) 07:22:19 sid_cypher: well, yeah :) 07:22:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:22:38 hitecnologys: glad you recovered :) 07:23:18 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:23:23 xificurC: yeah, you auto-convert a string into a tree, modify that tree with lispy goodness and convert back 07:24:13 antoszka: that uses libraries that access Excel files - I meant integration, as in CL callable from Excel and vice versa 07:24:24 sid_cypher: sounds like magic and like something I'd need a couple of months to learn 07:24:59 p_l: can't remember seeing anything like that 07:25:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-145-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:17 basically ECL + (D)COM and OLE Automation 07:25:38 antoszka: MS should add some kind of warning to their site, I almost died when I saw 1k pages of raw text. 07:25:41 antoszka: thanks for the links, however that only covers data extraction from excel files 07:25:44 that magic makes building interoperability between languages a matter of days instead of months, but yeah, still considerable work 07:29:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755e20.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:19 so maybe writing a small dsl would be a better exercise? It would still take me a ton of time to write 07:30:55 -!- iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:31:32 or I'll just drop the whole idea since you guys are saying its not worth it anyway 07:31:41 thanks for the suggestions though :) 07:31:52 xificurC: writing a small DSL is always a good exercise in lisp 07:33:06 tali713 [~tali713@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:48 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:35:25 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 07:35:45 sid_cypher: any good example of a simple dsl you could point me towards? 07:35:52 xificurC: i have the source code of s-xml library in front of me - it's a nice and simple example of generating xml from s-exps, could help 07:37:00 "the book Practical Common Lisp is available free online and has several example projects." 07:38:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:12 -!- Blkt_ is now known as Blkt 07:41:42 sid_cypher: I'll go through the book again then, the third time by now 07:46:19 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:46:21 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:46:51 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64F5D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:53 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:00 xificurC: if you just need to do something, a good way is to begin doing it and look at the code of similar projects when questions arise. and google of course 07:49:37 bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 07:51:41 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:11 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:29 sid_cypher: thanks for all the tips 07:55:06 good luck with your vba problem^^ 07:56:18 pnpuff 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has joined #lisp 10:47:59 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.101.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:45 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:51:28 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 10:51:31 Is it bad practice to declare "keyword" functions? 10:52:28 I mean (defun :function (something) stuff) 10:53:14 hitecnologys: it is at least unusual 10:53:33 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:53:36 If you bear in mind that they'll be in the KEYWORD package, there might be legitimate uses for that. 10:54:38 I don't use this, I'm just asking. I can't imagine why would someone need such functions. 10:56:56 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.156.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:58:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:58:58 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.156.136] has joined #lisp 10:59:21 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:05 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 11:01:28 antgreen [~green@207.112.101.211] has joined #lisp 11:01:44 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:04:09 zickzackv [~faot@g225056097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.73.36] has joined #lisp 11:04:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.73.36] has quit [Changing host] 11:04:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:06:57 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:03 And clhs notes: "It is generally best to confine the use of keywords to situations in which there are a finitely enumerable set of names to be selected between. For example, if there were two states of a light switch, they might be called :on and :off. " 11:09:01 Actually, you should probably define functions etc in your own packages only. Otherwise there'll be problems when you come to load a library where someone else has gone (defun :foo ...) 11:11:31 xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@192-0-129-82.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:01 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-129-82.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:12:01 -!- xaxisx_ is now known as xaxisx 11:13:43 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:14:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:14:52 my opinion is probably not the one anyone should listen to, but I find :keyword functions useful as function definitions that are intended to have global scope. two that I use a bit are :break/inspect and for my lexical-tracing/logging macro :printv 11:16:03 xach has previously scolded me on this practice :) But I feel that the ability to define global functions makes a lot more sense in some situations 11:17:53 they'll have to pry my keyword functions out of my cold, dead repl 11:18:03 I don't think it makes sense to put them in a library intended to be shared with the world. 11:18:14 I use them all the time for my repl utilities. 11:18:17 right, they're absolutely fine for personal development tools 11:19:22 I am mostly used to the visual appearance of it, but I got a bit of a WTF moment when I did something like (foo bar :key :myfun) 11:19:33 -!- froggey_ is now known as froggey 11:20:05 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:20:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:21:08 pub and i discussed briefly their value for ~/ format functions, as somewhat of an improvement over using :dl-user package for those 11:21:16 pjb rather 11:22:14 (format nil "~/:repeat/" 5 "x") -> "xxxxx" 11:23:10 instead of (format nil "~/repeat/" 5 "x") with repeat interned in cl-user 11:23:39 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:23:55 because it really is intended as something with global scope, as it would have in the case of cl-user 11:24:42 also, whats another colon, give-or-take, when it comes to #'format... 11:24:56 :) 11:25:06 well, I think the right answer there is "none of the above" 11:25:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26:03 the dl-user behavior is standard cl 11:26:10 dl-user i mean 11:26:39 cl-user i can't type worth a damn 11:27:15 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:57 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-55-195.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:28:54 its just as susceptible to conflicts as it might be in :keyword, but less clear and more overlooked 11:29:15 I know it's standard to look up in cl-user 11:29:24 the right answer is to use neither cl-user nor keyword, but your own package 11:29:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:30:09 I don't think keyword is a noticeable improvement over cl-user for format functions, unless you're again talking about personal utilities which don't go into the wild (in which case, sure) 11:30:25 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:53 Im not really arguing with you guys, just paling devils advocate. Obviously I defer to sachs judgement when it comes to public libraries 11:34:04 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-128-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:34:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 11:34:54 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-55-195.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:36:49 feep__ [~feep@p579E5C40.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:50 -!- feep__ is now known as feep 11:37:12 hi, I don't actually speak lisp so this question may seem somewhat random or obvious 11:37:19 what happens if you do (let (foo some-macro) (foo ...))? 11:37:36 nothing. 11:37:48 Common Lisp doesn't work like that. 11:38:02 yeah I hoped it'd fail somehow 11:38:46 thanks for confirming :D 11:38:54 -!- feep [~feep@p579E5C40.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 11:39:20 -!- drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:38 but macrolet... 11:39:49 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 11:39:59 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 11:40:00 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:40:46 And like I said, it provides a means for defining a function in a package that effectively is globally "used" without the additional encumber ment of also exporting it from whatever package you might otherwise place it in. This gives jus an avenue of separating fdefinition from package management. Not to be used willy-nilly of course, but there are many languages that have ONLY global namespace -- elisp for one. Why can't public CL co 11:40:47 use the conchpt in specific, well defined situations? 11:41:28 feep: maybe you are looking for macrolet 11:42:54 oh shoot xach beat me to it 11:43:03 figures :) 11:45:32 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-128-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:45:59 -!- Shozan is now known as SHODAN 11:46:15 anyway i'll drop my found keyword crusade for anyone listening, follow each and krystof's advice not mine 11:46:39 fbound keyword that is 11:47:00 and each, not each. sheesh i give up. 11:47:05 xach 11:48:18 autocorrect is my nemesis 11:48:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:49:12 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:49:14 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:52:59 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:57:21 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.101.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:57:47 Hi. When I (write-to-string n :base 2), with n = 4 I get "100" and with n = 1, it is "0" (of course). I want to specify a width and a filler digit, 0 so that for width = 4(say), we get "0100" for 4 and "0001" for 1 etc. How can I achieve that? 11:59:27 * with n = 1 it is "1" 11:59:46 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01:01 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:04:12 yati: (format nil "~4,'0,B" n) 12:06:30 emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 Krystof, thanks :) 12:08:03 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:31 antgreen [~green@207.112.101.211] has joined #lisp 12:12:56 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 12:18:01 jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:18:46 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:23 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-145-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:20:35 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:08 fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.247.46.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:48 clhs ~b 12:24:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbc.htm 12:25:19 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.156.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:49 xoui [~NYXNYXNYX@79.173.157.222] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 afternoon all 12:29:05 what would be the best approach to start learning LISP - and which dialect would you reccomend? 12:30:07 xoui: common lisp is great. there are several good books for learning it. practical common lisp is available online and in print. Paradigms of AI Programming is also great. 12:30:54 xoui: and try onlisp after you finish with PCL 12:31:47 thanks guys :) 12:32:35 NickLevine: how long have you used IRC ? I don't remember seeing you around before this year's ECLM 12:33:32 It's been a while 12:33:52 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-128-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-243-149.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:38:55 rvncerr [rvncerr@unaffiliated/rvncerr] has joined #lisp 12:41:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:43:44 lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 12:43:54 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.159.219] has joined #lisp 12:44:16 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 musolinoa [~alex@fedora/musolinoa] has joined #lisp 12:53:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138006 (I know there's a type soc should be doc) I can't figure out what's wrong with this code. the local-name never even ends up equalling "input" 12:53:54 so the function always returns nil 12:54:10 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:54 typo* 12:58:13 iig00cz: what packages are used there? chtml-matcher and stp-query maybe? 12:58:27 sid_cypher: chtml-closur and cxml-stp 12:58:47 closure* 12:59:03 http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/closure-html/examples.html 12:59:07 I'm basing it off that 13:01:02 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:01:21 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.101.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:02:43 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:03:01 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:05:15 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has joined #lisp 13:05:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:06:58 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:59 Why can't I use &body in function lambda list? 13:07:47 -!- fogus|gone [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:08:59 hitecnologys: i was under impression that &body is for macros and &rest is for arguments 13:10:09 sid_cypher: but &rest works for macros and &body doesn't work for functions, that's unfair! 13:11:38 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:12:28 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:12:28 stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has joined #lisp 13:13:51 hitecnologys: the macro is lisps favorite child, it gets all the best and newest stuff 13:15:04 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:03 sid_cypher: it seems like the stp:local-name function is broken 13:17:20 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:44 iig00cz: i never even used it before, so i can't help fix it, sorry 13:17:46 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:37 it's cool 13:19:17 Is this possible to trace functions which wre defined using labels? 13:19:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-243-149.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:19:34 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 hitecnologys: in some implementations 13:21:39 Xach: what about sbcl? 13:21:42 I don't know. 13:22:16 nitefli19 [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 13:22:18 sshirolost [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 13:22:22 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has joined #lisp 13:22:37 drdo` [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 13:22:49 sid_cyph1r [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 13:23:14 setmeaway [setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 13:23:15 PuercoPope [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has joined #lisp 13:23:24 ivan4th` [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 13:23:48 Xach: can't you "just" either use #+asdf3 or upgrade quicklisp's asdf to asdf3, and then call primary-system-name yourself? 13:24:18 loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has joined #lisp 13:24:24 _8hzp` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:42 Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 fds_ [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:24:52 otwierac1 [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 13:24:53 -!- sid_cypher [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:25:03 -!- sid_cyph1r is now known as sid_cypher 13:25:03 Subfusc_ [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:05 davorb_ [~davor@194.47.245.35] has joined #lisp 13:25:26 sondr34 [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has joined #lisp 13:25:28 thaum_ [~quassel@2001:470:1:41::403e:bcc0] has joined #lisp 13:25:35 That's a possibility. I'd rather see asdf3 change, though. 13:25:36 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:25:38 reb` [user@nat/google/x-gelbjqjwhomkvpwf] has joined #lisp 13:25:40 -!- loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:43 I'll send rpg a patch and rationale. 13:25:58 loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has joined #lisp 13:26:12 justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 13:26:32 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.159.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:26:40 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:40 Ralt_ [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 13:27:29 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 dan64- [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:29:37 -!- drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- away_sondr3 [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-zjbvggxfszxikays] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- thaum [~quassel@2001:470:1:41::403e:bcc0] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:38 -!- _8hzp [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- davorb [~davor@194.47.245.35] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- justinmcp_ [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-quojtwkxpdznbglz] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- nitro_idiot_ [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:39 -!- Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:29:41 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 13:29:41 -!- otwierac1 is now known as otwieracz 13:29:41 -!- Ralt_ is now known as Ralt 13:29:41 -!- dan64- is now known as dan64 13:29:41 gko_ [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 13:29:42 -!- PuercoPope is now known as PuercoPop 13:29:42 sbryant_ [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 13:29:42 -!- sshirolost is now known as sshirokov 13:30:03 -!- gko_ is now known as gko 13:30:06 -!- sbryant_ is now known as sbryant 13:30:09 -!- pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 13:30:09 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest28772 13:30:27 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:32 I'm just a bit concerned about handlers that return system objects -- if you strip the name, how can they handle sub-systems? 13:30:48 foom [jknight@nat/google/session] has joined #lisp 13:30:49 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/session] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:49 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-sfsaytnmpjlrtucr] has joined #lisp 13:31:03 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:10 I didn't know that was a feature. How long has that worked? 13:31:20 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 13:31:21 happily, no such handler seems to be used right now, but it's not elegant to forbid it — though "elegant" and asdf:find-system admittedly don't go well in the same sentence. 13:31:48 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF97755.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:31:58 It has worked since the earlyish ASDF 2.x — notably used for smooth optional asdf upgradability 13:32:15 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:32:17 -!- acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 13:32:26 i.e. you can :depends-on (asdf) and it works whether there is an asdf source available somewhere, or just the version loaded in-image 13:33:43 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:36:20 hi 13:38:13 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has joined #lisp 13:46:47 balle_ [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 13:47:16 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225056097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:47:20 _rvncerr [rvncerr@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:772c] has joined #lisp 13:47:59 otwierac1 [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 Ralt_ [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 13:48:13 miql_ [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:15 fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:48:23 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:39 kcj [~casey@203-173-207-86.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lctinoulqvvozzbx] has joined #lisp 13:49:29 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-232-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:40 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.159.219] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@108.87.21.122] has joined #lisp 13:51:00 EvW1 [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:51:06 tali713_ [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:182f:734e:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 13:51:20 _main_ [~main@50.240.210.73] has joined #lisp 13:51:47 sbryant_ [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 13:51:57 nightshade427_ [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 13:53:54 dan64- [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:06 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 13:54:38 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:48 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:57 G'morning all. 13:56:08 g'morn 13:56:08 reb``` [user@nat/google/x-wfqorkwkgqjygqvm] has joined #lisp 13:56:23 -!- reb`` [user@nat/google/x-mcecaosczgeifdad] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:55 ApeShot [~user@130.79.58.251] has joined #lisp 13:57:04 Anyone using aserve extensively? 13:57:15 admittedly, this could be replaced by just having a defsystem that forces the pathname to be NIL. 13:57:21 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- Guest28772 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-gelbjqjwhomkvpwf] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- thaum_ [~quassel@2001:470:1:41::403e:bcc0] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- fds_ [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:21 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:22 -!- _8hzp` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:22 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:22 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:22 -!- 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14:13:37 trigen- [~MSX@cppse.nl] has joined #lisp 14:13:45 naeg_ [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:58 -!- tankrim`` is now known as tankrim 14:14:36 -!- sendak.freenode.net has set mode +t 14:14:36 fasta [1334259@2001:888:0:1::888] has joined #lisp 14:14:42 -!- fasta [1334259@2001:888:0:1::888] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:15:05 kobain [~kobian@190.57.227.108] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:15:18 Xach: what is the procedure of adding new library to quicklisp? 14:15:21 -!- kobain [~kobian@190.57.227.108] has quit [Changing host] 14:15:21 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:15:33 -!- kdas__ is now known as kushal 14:15:34 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:52 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:28 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:16:54 prepare the sources, call Xach, push and move yourself your base over to ...... 14:17:37 gensym_ [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 14:17:37 -!- EvW1 [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.122] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- eak_ [~unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- nitro_idiot_ [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- Subfusc_ [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:37 -!- sid_cypher [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:38 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:38 -!- loke_ [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:17:38 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [*.net *.split] 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14:25:34 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 14:25:55 iglu [~nick@203-59-86-232.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:26:51 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 14:27:01 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:27:13 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:27:26 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:27:59 spion [~spion@77.29.196.42] has joined #lisp 14:29:02 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 14:29:14 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:29:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:25 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 14:29:29 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:32:17 is there an easy way to turn a regular symbol into a keyword? 14:32:19 'foo to :foo? 14:32:32 (intern (string 'foo) :keyword) 14:32:49 thanks 14:33:57 -!- knob9876 [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:34:24 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:35:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 14:36:01 stassats`: do you know if it's possible to trace labels functions? 14:36:51 (in sbcl) 14:36:59 _d3f [~gnu@50.7.242.122] has joined #lisp 14:37:31 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-rzhrtauijbdwlhgd] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:37:50 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-krqrhkkvgfqiuopk] has joined #lisp 14:38:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:38:31 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 14:38:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:42 nope 14:38:50 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:17 -!- sid_cyph1r is now known as sid_cypher 14:39:42 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:40:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@95-42-16-247.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:04 Nope for impossible or nope for don't know? 14:41:14 you can't 14:41:20 Ok, thanks. 14:42:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:07 -!- miercoledi [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 14:46:39 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ifoatqpzjrjavgsm] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:48:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:29 antgreen [~green@out-on-242.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:35 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:11 ecraven` [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 14:54:32 -!- ecraven` [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1] 14:56:52 -!- yati [~yati@116.203.186.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:14 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npakgxavcwlffoql] has joined #lisp 15:00:04 is there a way with handler-case to catch all errors 15:00:26 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:01:05 ignore-errors ? 15:01:05 (t ...) 15:01:55 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-21.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:02 -!- iglu [~nick@203-59-86-232.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:02:09 hi Fare :) 15:02:20 lo fe[nl]ix 15:02:36 iglu [~nick@203-59-86-232.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:02:38 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-21.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:31 ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #lisp 15:03:31 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:03:31 -!- sendak.freenode.net has set mode +o ChanServ 15:03:31 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:33 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:48 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:03:48 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:03:57 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has left #lisp 15:04:09 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:04:40 -!- lemoinem is now known as Guest42329 15:04:40 -!- joast is now known as Guest1988 15:04:40 -!- kushal is now known as Guest13615 15:04:41 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest12453 15:04:41 jdoles [~jdoles@unaffiliated/jdoles] has joined #lisp 15:04:42 -!- spion is now known as Guest46466 15:06:43 Has anyone here tried to use a postgresql array constructor in a query in postmodern? 15:07:22 -!- Guest13615 [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lctinoulqvvozzbx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:50 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:25 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:10:30 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:52 -!- joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:00 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 15:12:13 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 15:12:45 *nyef_* sighs. 15:13:14 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:13:14 Yet another one for The List. If it's even possible, it's Not Obvious, and there's only one place where the correct syntax even appears in the s-sql source. 15:13:31 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:13:50 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:13:51 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:14 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-21.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:07 nyef_: Could you show what you're doing? 15:18:22 I've got something working now, as follows: (:select (:array-cat-agg (:raw (format nil "array[~{~A~^, ~}]" (mapcar #'s-sql:sql-compile '(row-id (:text (:length message)) message))))) :from 'message :where ...) 15:18:48 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has joined #lisp 15:21:17 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 15:21:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:21:23 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:21:49 The only place in s-sql where there's an "ARRAY[" is in SQL-ESCAPE, and that's for literal values, so splicing field names or further expressions within that context doesn't work. 15:22:27 (And, yes, I tried.) 15:22:45 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 15:24:49 are there any other uses for (declrae other than (declare (ignore? 15:25:02 s/declrae/declare 15:25:17 ahungry: yes. 15:25:18 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:55 clhs declare 15:26:07 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Client Quit] 15:27:12 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:28:16 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yhkihucpvrspkwxb] has joined #lisp 15:31:24 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:31:34 svs_ [~svs@168-103-110-206.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:27 -!- Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:33:47 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:36 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-52-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:36:11 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:13 ahungry: There's SPECIAL, there's TYPE, there's FTYPE, there's OPTIMIZE, there's IGNORABLE, there's DECLARATION (I think that's what it's called)... 15:38:30 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:30 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-242.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:39:53 ty 15:40:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:08 -!- xoui [~NYXNYXNYX@79.173.157.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:15 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:36 -!- loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:48 does anyone know if the alexandria dev hang out here? 15:45:02 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.57.82] has joined #lisp 15:45:42 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:46:26 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yhkihucpvrspkwxb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:15 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 15:48:24 im using asdf's concatenate-source to bundle up alexandria, but when i compile the bundle i get a bunch of errors 15:48:32 -!- kcj [~casey@203-173-207-86.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:49:27 xani [~user@178.183.153.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 15:50:58 antgreen [~green@out-pq-253.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:06 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:52:59 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B1273.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:59:03 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:00 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:05:08 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 16:06:21 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 16:07:56 _malicious [~cs@elderberry.cs.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 16:08:44 kcj [~casey@203-173-207-86.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 16:09:35 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:10:05 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:10 -!- antgreen [~green@out-pq-253.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:15 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:21 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.31] has joined #lisp 16:13:27 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:44 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:53 -!- xani [~user@178.183.153.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:16 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.127.203] has joined #lisp 16:17:48 joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has joined #lisp 16:19:25 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:21:18 ayeaye92 [~user@dsl-173-206-68-24.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 16:22:38 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:46 pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-68-81.2074856244.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:16 schoppenhauer [~quassel@2a01:4f8:101:281:7ad5:1003:0:1] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-212-65.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:47 fe[nl]ix: I'm having a weird issue on the latest quicklisp iolib 16:29:59 The value 10211985997 is not of type (SIGNED-BYTE 32) 16:30:15 raised in iolib.multiplex::harvest-events 16:30:49 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-15.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:03 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:01 zacharias [~zacharias@we0980.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:11 fe[nl]ix: never mind. I just figured out what it was 16:38:38 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:41:10 xPhase [~xphase@50-198-116-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:13 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@122.183.185.75] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:41:52 banjara [~Adium@122.183.185.75] has joined #lisp 16:43:37 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:43 dlowe: what was it ? 16:45:59 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:46:44 fe[nl]ix: I have code to restore timers from a db. Something went wrong in that process. 16:50:07 sharad [sharad@stumbled.upon.a.broken-pipe.info] has joined #lisp 16:53:31 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B1273.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:24 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-239-139.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:56:52 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-028-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:56:59 -!- banjara [~Adium@122.183.185.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:35 banjara [~Adium@122.183.185.75] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:43 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 17:04:17 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755e20.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:03 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:07:46 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 17:08:59 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 17:09:16 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 17:12:13 -!- krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:24 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 17:19:21 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 17:20:22 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:21:41 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.159.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:12 -!- Guest46466 [~spion@77.29.196.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:18 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@we0980.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 17:29:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:30:10 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:48 any Alexandria devs around? 17:35:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 17:37:28 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:07 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:18 PuffTheMagic: no 17:39:06 PuffTheMagic: maybe some ordinary people can help you 17:39:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.241.78] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:41:46 Adlai [~adlai@84.228.159.99] has joined #lisp 17:43:01 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 17:45:56 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jagaj] 17:48:36 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 17:49:18 if i'm not mistaken, implementing lambda calculus is brainless EXCEPT for keeping track of free and bound variables right? 17:49:30 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:11 theseb: sure... given that's all there is to the LC. 17:50:57 yay! 17:50:59 -!- samebcha1e is now known as samebchase 17:51:19 pkhuong: thanks 17:55:45 knob9876 [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 17:57:34 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:59:34 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:03:19 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:36 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 18:05:22 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:52 maxm [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:09 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:25 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:10:27 sellout1 [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:48 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:28 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:36 antgreen [~green@out-on-132.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:33 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 18:18:33 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 18:18:38 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-193.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:42 Hey, I have a question about macros, can someone help me out? 18:21:04 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:14 only if you ask that question 18:23:38 Haha :P Alright, say I have two macros: (defmacro A (x) x) and (defmacro B (&body body)`'(,@body)). Is there a way of doing (B (A 4)) and have the macro A expanded as well? 18:24:05 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 you can use the function macroexpand 18:24:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:48 Typically, if you're using macroexpand, you're doing something wrong in the first place. The exception being if you're writing a Lisp implementation. 18:25:23 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-52-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:24 Or, possibly, doing something in terms of generalized reference. 18:25:24 yeah, i'm not sure i understand what that macro would be for. 18:25:28 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:25:37 The thing is that some element of body may be macros that need to be expanded for the final code generation to be correct 18:25:39 maybe `(list ,@body) would be better, or something 18:25:56 That is obviously a contrived macro just to show my issue :P 18:26:08 macros are expanded recursively until there's nothing to expand 18:26:24 I thought macros recursively expanded anyways? 18:26:25 Unless the macro definition is in a quoted list, then it stays unevaluated 18:26:39 stassats`: Beat me to it ;) 18:26:42 don't put it into a quoted list 18:27:45 ayeaye92: maybe you want the code generator to use another extension mechanism than the host's macros. Or maybe you want something like higher-order abstract syntax trick, and basically expand into a form that'll evaluate into a function that, when called, will finally return the generated code. 18:28:55 -!- Adlai [~adlai@84.228.159.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:29:24 Kinda. I need the macro to return a quoted list because what gets returned isn't a function 18:29:41 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:55 (defmacro B (&body body) `'(,@(loop :for x :in body :collect (macroexpand x)))) 18:31:06 That does exactly what I'm looking for 18:31:20 But someone said that if you're using macroexpand, you're doing something wrong 18:31:26 does it? 18:31:28 well, yes, that seems bizarre 18:31:30 ayeaye92: why a quoted list? 18:31:40 you also forgot to get the environment, so it won't work with macrolet 18:31:44 ayeaye92: you hardly ever will want a quoted list in real-world code 18:31:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:02 (macroexpand '(when (when x))) => no inner when expanded 18:32:21 ayeaye92: use the environment. and unless you have a very very good idea of what your arguments are, that code is very fragile 18:32:44 I know exactly what the arguments are going to be 18:33:07 How would I do it without a quoted list? 18:33:07 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:35 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 18:35:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Disconnect] 18:35:27 either you don't really want macros because you're just doing one level of replacement, and then you might as well have your own extension mechanism, or you'll end up with stuff like unexpected quotes in the middle of expressions. 18:37:03 Okay, two questions: How would I get the environment to pass to macroexpand if I use it? And what do you mean by my own extension mechanism? 18:37:06 I like the C macro preprocessor 18:39:15 speak no more 18:40:54 -!- davorb_ is now known as davorb 18:40:59 Environments to pass to macroexpand are obtained via the &ENV lambda-list keyword for a macro lambda-list. 18:41:37 Otherwise, use the value NIL, meaning a null lexical environment. 18:43:01 Thanks 18:43:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.31] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:46 nil is the default one 18:48:32 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 18:49:45 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:40 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1686.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:52 -!- naeg_ [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 18:51:13 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:22 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:00 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:34 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:41 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:52 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:12 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:38 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1686.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:41 jeff280 [~Jeff@50-0-128-157.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:50 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 19:00:04 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 19:01:12 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 19:02:21 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:41 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:18 danlentz: notice that format takes also a formatter function in place of a control-string. 19:06:24 danlentz: cf. clhs formatter 19:06:45 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:06:54 so you could write a macro that would process your format control strings to put the function between ~/ / in the package you want. 19:07:03 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 19:08:07 (format nil (my:fmt "~V/repeat/~/cl-user:newline/") 5 "xyz") --> (format nil "~V/my::repeat/~/cl-user:newline/" 5 "xyz") 19:08:09 -!- _malicious [~cs@elderberry.cs.swarthmore.edu] has left #lisp 19:08:27 <_death> danlentz: also check out https://github.com/death/constantia/blob/master/out.lisp .. example http://paste.lisp.org/display/137940 19:08:38 -!- _death is now known as adeht 19:08:48 -!- _rvncerr is now known as rvncerr 19:10:30 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 19:10:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:10:59 minion: memo for hitecnologys: have a look at (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper) (documentation (find-package "CL-STEPPER") t) 19:10:59 Remembered. I'll tell hitecnologys when he/she/it next speaks. 19:11:12 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:46 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:11:55 dlowe: handler case t is dangerous. t covers all the conditions, a lot of them are not errors! 19:12:56 ahungry: and foremost, there's declaration, which allows you to declare your own declarations! 19:13:21 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:12 ASau [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:44 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:06 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 (declaim (declaration pre-condition post-condition not-tested proved)) (defun f (x r z) (declare proved not-tested (ignore z) (pre-condition (and (realp x) (<= 0 x) (consp r))) (post-condition (= (car r) (factorial x)))) (setf (car r) (factorial x))) 19:16:20 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:37 ahungry: remains to write the tools that will process your declarations. But it should be easy, since it's lisp, and the code = data ;-) 19:16:43 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:59 "easy" 19:17:38 Well, depends on your declarations of course. 19:18:55 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:40 ayeaye92: (defmacro B (&body body &environment env) `'(,@(loop :for x :in body :collect (macroexpand x env)))) 19:20:05 -!- jeff280 [~Jeff@50-0-128-157.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:21:33 So that (macrolet ((C (x) `(,x ,x))) (B (C X) (C Y))) works. 19:22:11 it's that time of the day again 19:23:24 If those answers had been given correctly before, I wouldn't have to give them now! 19:23:46 the defmacro one, it was given 19:23:52 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:23:57 Nope. Someone said &env, it's &environment. 19:24:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:24:12 ok, carry on then 19:24:13 -!- stassats` [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-60-193.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has left #lisp 19:24:14 And it's always good to give an example of why. 19:24:37 And furthermore, you're complaining on the last one, that's even one hour old! 19:24:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:43 You know, "Oh dear, somebody's wrong on the Internet." Only now, the "internet" has a memory of 20 years, so it can be "Oh dear, somebody was wrong on the Internet."! :-) 19:26:25 I should prepare a file for old wrongs in #lisp, so that when old nicks come back, they've got a welcoming and correcting message :-) 19:26:30 robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 -!- Gooder`` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:49 So, I was about to buy a personal license of MOCL, unfortunately, I started to read the license agreement. Already, the first article, "License Grant" is unacceptable, I don't say about the second one, "License Restrictions". I didn't read the rest, I'll stay with freedom software. 19:29:12 Your dream of writing a mobile app that deletes all the user's files is thwarted 19:29:50 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:30 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:56 Can I insert #\Null into a string literal? Or do I need to use (format nil "...~c..." #\Null)? 19:34:43 pjb: Thanks :) 19:35:24 inkjetunito [~hf999@ip-178-203-93-87.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:33 flip214: you can insert \0 with cl-interpol 19:36:05 dlowe: thanks. Nothing available in CL? Same for #\Newline, I guess. 19:36:27 if you can't use it, then yeah, your solution works 19:36:28 Also consider using #.(format nil ...) 19:38:12 -!- _d3f [~gnu@50.7.242.122] has quit [Quit: and *buff* he was gone!] 19:42:53 ASau [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:15 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:47 jeff280 [~Jeff@199-83-220-112.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:59 does anyone have an example for a (defmethod (SETF ...) ...) available? my CLHS only says that it's possible. 19:52:02 clhs defmethod 19:52:06 clhs: defmethod 19:52:10 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:14 hrm, bot botched? 19:53:38 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-158-227.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 19:54:51 specbot's gone, woe 19:56:56 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-132.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:36 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:16 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:59:16 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:29 -!- banjara [~Adium@122.183.185.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:02 -!- Khisanth is now known as Guest88966 20:00:07 -!- Praise- [~Fat@81.174.2.165] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:07 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:01:11 chu [~user@CPE-121-223-183-181.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:01:57 Denommus [~user@201.75.84.112] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:02:21 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:03:33 -!- chu [~user@CPE-121-223-183-181.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 20:03:33 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 20:03:35 -!- Denommus [~user@201.75.84.112] has quit [Changing host] 20:03:36 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:03:59 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 20:04:14 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@ip-178-203-93-87.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Changing host] 20:04:14 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 20:04:29 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:05:50 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:31 antonv [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 20:06:33 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:56 hi 20:06:57 -!- sellout is now known as Guest34327 20:07:10 who can recommend god serialization library for CL? 20:07:16 quick and correct 20:07:23 good 20:07:36 -!- Guest34327 is now known as sellout- 20:08:28 antonv: what do you want to serialize? 20:08:44 arbitrary lisp data, including structures and classes 20:09:18 list and any other cons structures, including cirtular or networks, vectors, structs, classes 20:10:16 desirable to have the output format readable, like cl:print does, but with support for classes and structs 20:10:39 not exactly possible 20:11:04 -!- iglu [~nick@203-59-86-232.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:11 if you want it readable with circular handling then print is already your best bet 20:11:56 -!- Guest88966 is now known as Khisanth 20:12:08 I wanted to say in simple cases 20:12:53 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:12:56 i.e. if the entity should be referenced more than once, it is given and ID when printed first time, and then referenced by that ID in all the future places 20:13:25 I use cl-store, but that doesn't produce a readable format (that I know of) 20:14:05 the main problem is classes, but if you just require structures then you should be fine 20:15:06 oGMo what problem with classes? 20:15:53 the problem that they can't be trivially read or written even for standard-object 20:16:33 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:17:10 Xach: can you say anything about cl-store preformance (speed)? 20:17:12 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:12 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.127.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:17:25 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:38 i wrote conspack to do similar, portably/well-specified, and fast, but it is also not readable (though there is an explain) and doesn't handle classes transparently 20:19:08 but "readable" is overrated for many uses 20:19:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:18 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:19:26 fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:19:55 oGMo: human readable; Typically I will store small objects with several fields 20:20:19 antonv: human-readable is really what i meant there 20:20:22 -!- lduros`` [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:20:48 -!- robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:20:51 in my case I explicitly need to read the data 20:21:09 k0001 [~k0001@host229.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:21:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:21:12 lduros [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:14 robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:31 Hey guys, if I have a list of around 40k lists (each with 10 or so atoms) would it significantly better to update to vectors or hash table or array? Currently I have some mapcar running across the entries, does vector or others have equivalent? 20:22:17 you can use map with vectors 20:22:18 MAP works on sequences, which includes vectors, MAPHASH works on hash tables, and you can use LOOP for the arrays. 20:22:34 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:37 (or loop for all of them, really) 20:24:13 is there a large speed increase on one type over another? 20:24:22 ahungry: if you access the data only by mapar or equivalent I doubt it significantly different to update to vectors 20:24:40 ahungry: but you can try and tell us 20:24:47 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host229.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:09 ahungry: (time ) prints time taken to execute the expression 20:25:25 (time (your-lists-based-code)) 20:25:32 (time (your-vector-based-code)) 20:25:55 thanks guys 20:27:12 -!- xPhase [~xphase@50-198-116-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:22 Note that consing reported by TIME on SBCL is unreliable. 20:30:53 antonv: I can't say much about it. When I use cl-store, I just need persistence, not performance. 20:31:12 -!- Mandus_ is now known as Mandus 20:31:16 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:41 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@130-204-68-81.2074856244.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:34:16 is there a better way to convert a list to vector other than something like (map 'vector #'print '(a b c)) 20:34:26 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:29 coerce 20:34:37 also you could just use #'identity, not #'print. 20:34:47 thanks Bike 20:36:43 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-41-134.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:03 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abob176.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:38:49 -!- lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-15.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:28 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos217.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:40:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:40:54 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Myk267] 20:45:37 igotnole_ [~igotnoleg@71-219-141-83.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:55 Ok, results are in for vector and list comparison 20:45:59 http://sprunge.us/iIGW 20:46:40 looks like the big time save is for the GC portion of the vectors 20:46:41 Harag1 [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:46:56 ayeaye92` [~user@dsl-173-206-68-24.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 20:47:04 yeah, the list generate a cons for every item 20:47:19 there's some per-element overhead the vectors don't have 20:47:51 rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:10 Vectors can have anything as it's atom correct? other vectors, lists, etc? Just like lists can have vectors in them? 20:48:41 yes. 20:48:45 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 20:48:55 eak_ [~unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:04 l_a_m_ [~l_a_m@94.124.130.19] has joined #lisp 20:49:05 Going forward in my programming, is there any reason to use a list over a vector? 20:49:22 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:27 cheaper to add an element 20:49:29 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:34 cross_ [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:43 aoh_ [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 20:49:45 hugoduncan [~user@76.65.143.249] has joined #lisp 20:50:01 to one side 20:50:27 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af5043f.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:09 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:52:09 -!- BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client 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Segmentation fault] 22:10:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:42 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.113.175.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:15:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:09 -!- trigen- [~MSX@cppse.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:31 trigen [~MSX@cppse.nl] has joined #lisp 22:19:56 -!- trigen [~MSX@cppse.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:17 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:21:16 trigen [~MSX@cppse.nl] has joined #lisp 22:22:59 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:23:11 antifuchs: so is there like a LUG in SFO or something? :) 22:23:23 -!- pjb is now known as Guest8029 22:24:03 pjb1 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:24:26 -!- Guest8029 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:41 -!- pjb1 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:08 sykopomp: what is this, the '90s ? 22:25:20 Lisp! Lisp User Group. 22:25:33 fe[nl]ix: I don't know. They call themselves different things. 22:26:43 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:27:26 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:27:32 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:42 so what are #lisp's preferences / recommendations for build tools? Specifically I need to be able to handle buildouts of Lisp + something else, like NSIS installer generator, or pieces of C code for custom libs or binaries, but it'd be nice if it were flexible enough to allow anything 22:27:43 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:01 I tried SCons, in my experience it quickly gets even messier than make 22:28:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:29:18 CMake has this odd idea of "native platform build tools", though they seem to have got a Ninja generator recently, which could possibly be enough to sidestep the issue (http://martine.github.io/ninja/) 22:29:41 yes, scons is crap. don't know about others. 22:31:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:31:25 -!- lduros [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:43 -!- Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 22:32:43 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 22:38:23 -!- camm [~user@nat-tvwna-outside-visitornet2-d-124.princeton.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:40 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-158-227.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:07 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:46:41 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:49:20 -!- kcj [~casey@203-173-207-86.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:24 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:45 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 22:51:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:01 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:52:13 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:52:22 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:55:18 -!- sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:58:29 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-232-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:09:02 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:07 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:29 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:15:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:15:38 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:47 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-232-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:21:54 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:23:36 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:24:28 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:52 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:29 -!- Guest21291 is now known as xristos 23:48:13 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:48:42 -!- svs__ [~svs@168-103-110-206.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:51 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 23:53:14 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:35 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.201.17] has joined #lisp 23:54:40 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 23:54:47 -!- nightshade427_ [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:05 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp