00:00:17 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:04:00 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:07 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:28 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:08:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:43 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:08 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172.15.249.133] has joined #lisp 00:17:45 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:55 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:21:42 no, I didn't look at it. 00:21:48 err, wrong channel. 00:22:00 zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.71.239] has joined #lisp 00:22:03 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@76-205-169-48.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:59 -!- nymo [~user@c-76-17-216-101.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:18 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.19.17] has joined #lisp 00:31:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:09 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:23 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:56 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:47:57 -!- fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:49:24 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:40 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:40 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has joined #lisp 00:53:51 jxriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:52 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:54 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:57:00 Pholey [~nigger@unaffiliated/pholey] has joined #lisp 00:57:18 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:50 hello, extremely new to lisp here, wishing to learn a few things.. although it seems finding docs are impossible 00:58:07 there seems to be 100 different versions of lisp 00:58:13 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:58:22 This channel is for the Common Lisp language. 00:58:32 clisp 00:58:33 There are only 10 active implementations of common lisp! 00:58:39 clisp is one of them. 00:58:40 really? 00:58:56 i assume clisp stands for common lisp correct? 00:59:01 no 00:59:02 Nope. 00:59:06 wha... 00:59:20 what would be a clisp interpreter? 00:59:23 err 00:59:26 common lisp 00:59:27 CLISP is the name of an implementation of Common Lisp. CL is the abbreviation for Common Lisp. 00:59:28 you are extremely new, prepare your knowledge to be incorrect 00:59:40 *zRecursive* anyway CLISP has a GOOD name :) 00:59:41 clisp is a common lisp implementation, with an interpreter. 00:59:47 Pholey: SBCL is the most popular. LispWorks and Allegro CL are a few commercial implementations. 00:59:59 Clozure CL is the second most popular. 01:00:16 i have sbcl installed already! 01:00:21 Super. 01:00:24 so this should make it easier 01:00:45 If it was installed by your system's package manager, perhaps not. But hard to tell until you try it out. 01:00:59 i have knowledge in a few other programming languages but CL seems to be giving me a hard time finding things 01:01:17 i installed it earlier, but thought it might be the wrong one 01:01:47 Man, you folks who've been on IRC for years must really want to beat the CLISP folks into a name-change, eh? :) 01:01:59 There's no step-by-step spoonfed introduction to how to write CL the way people typically write it today. It would be kind of nice to have something like that, but I can understand why it doesn't exist yet. 01:02:16 patrickwonders: the Conversational Lisp folks? 01:02:17 I've only been around for a few months on the channel and I'm amazed by how constant that confusion is... 01:02:18 Practical Common Lisp is a pretty good book for learning the language. Paradigms of AI Programming too 01:02:30 for example, in python we have "import" and in ruby we have "require", what is the equivalent of that in CL? 01:02:52 Pholey: I don't think it's a good idea to learn CL in terms of how you'd do something similar in a totally different environment. 01:02:59 well sure 01:03:20 but i am trying to grasp from what i know ;) 01:03:49 however i would like to do an http request in CL, but i cannot find anything that says it is native 01:03:52 well, if you want to load code from a file, there's the load function. for more complicated systems there's asdf and such. 01:03:56 it's not. do you have quicklisp? 01:04:11 quicklisp? no i do not 01:04:14 if so, (ql:quickload :drakma). if not, get it. 01:04:26 i saw that.. it looked interesting 01:04:38 what is the difference between quicklisp and sbcl? 01:04:40 *patrickwonders* seconds the "get quicklisp" 01:04:53 quicklisp is sort of like systems like maven 01:04:56 except it works. 01:05:13 is there syntax change in each version or? 01:05:13 Quicklisp is a library. SBCL is a compiler. 01:05:31 quicklisp is like pip for python 01:05:35 Quicklisp is a library that makes it easy to fetch, install, and load other libraries. 01:05:45 Pholey: quicklisp and sbcl are not comparable. 01:05:52 ag 01:05:56 "Man, you folks who've been on IRC for years must really want to beat the QUICKLISP folks into a name-change, eh? :)" 01:06:05 ah 01:06:07 i see 01:06:08 :) 01:06:09 heh. 01:06:17 i thought it might have been another version of lisp 01:06:58 patrickwonders: CLISP will not change its name though it isnot actively developed now ... 01:07:07 *patrickwonders* nods 01:07:36 ok i see 01:07:38 zRecursive: It is actively developed now. 01:07:50 it'd be pretty stupid to change the name now 01:07:51 however i was "gifted a file" quicklisp.lisp 01:08:05 Xach: IIRC, the last release is 2010 ? 01:08:11 but am unsure as to what to do with it in terms of sbcl other than run it 01:08:20 Pholey: you load the quicklisp.lisp 01:08:27 zRecursive: You could accurately say "It has not been released recently" but not that it is not actively developed. 01:08:29 Pholey: quicklisp is like pip in python. But I second Xach on avoiding learning by analogy. It prevents you from learning. 01:08:32 at the SBCL command prompt, you type: 01:08:43 (load ".../quicklisp.lisp") 01:08:51 its hard to "let go" you know? haha 01:08:54 patrickwonders: I am occasionally vexed by thinking along the lines of "I use gcc for C so I should use GCL for CL." 01:08:59 giving the path to the quicklisp.lisp file instead of ".../" 01:09:01 I am using CLISP on box with few RAM, otherwise i am using CCL and SBCL 01:09:04 i see 01:09:15 it should then instruct you as to what to do next. 01:09:17 but it only loads systems, why are different from what the namespaces it makes available for you to 'import' 01:09:29 Xach: but clisp is indeed not actively developed 01:09:29 I think that might be one of the only reasons people stumble on GCL. 01:09:47 i haven't seen any substantial changes in the mercurial tree for the last 6 months 01:09:59 PuercoPop: and pip is not exactly like quicklisp because it's mostly like emerge, so it prevents you from learning and confuses. 01:10:18 and my bug reports were ignored 01:10:28 PuercoPop: I mean pip is mostly like emerge 01:10:38 Pholey: after you have quicklisp set up, then you can do (ql:quickload :drakma) as mentioned above. 01:10:46 stassats`: six months is not long enough in my view, but ignored bug reports is pretty bad. 01:11:07 if you're an emacs user, then the next thing you will want is (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) 01:11:08 so, my conforming software can't work on clisp and i consider it not a priority to support code to work on it for the time being 01:11:12 IIRC my last bug report actually got a reply. 01:11:14 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:17 hitecnologys: I agree that pip and emerge are similar, didn't caught the gist of the other part of your comment. 01:11:17 Xach: 6 months is A LOT, even I try to fix bugs within 2 weeks. 01:11:18 It was longer than 6 months ago. 01:11:19 then you can do (ql:quickload :gendl) ;) 01:11:22 Xach: CLISP's thread support is always experimental :) 01:12:04 hitecnologys: Sure. And to a kid, summer is forever, while it's only a few days to an adult. 01:12:32 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:41 PuercoPop: it confuses because when you think that pip is like quicklisp, then you may think that pip=quicklisp so when someone tells you that it's not, your brain explodes. 01:13:49 Xach: yeah, summer lasts forever. But when it ends I always wonder why is passed so quickly. 01:14:25 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:25 speaking of "how people write lisp nowadays", has anyone else besides me check Google's Common Lisp style guide? 01:14:34 no 01:14:58 it's huge: http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml 01:15:15 To load Quicklisp every time you start Lisp, use: (ql:add-to-init-file) 01:15:24 init file? 01:15:32 ah yeah, I agree with that statement too. More so in CL where the concepts of system, file and namespaces are completely orthogonal. It took me a while to see that. But I'm still an utter novice, but not completely lost now yet 01:16:25 Pholey: when you run an implementation, it will firstly load some code in a file on your home folder. This file is the init file. SBCL's is .sbclrc 01:16:29 Pholey: That's the term I use for the file that your Lisp implementation loads when it is started. Kind of like an rc file. 01:17:18 init is short for initialization 01:17:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-87-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:17:30 well sure 01:18:03 interesting 01:18:04 i got it 01:18:16 its a good choice to have quicklisp start up every time right? 01:18:27 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-87-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:33 if you plan on using it 01:18:40 cool 01:18:44 time clisp -norc -q -q -i -x "(sqrt 1000000)" => 1000 0.042 secs \n time ghc -e 'sqrt 1000000' 1000.0 1.034 secs Does it make sense ? 01:19:18 your benchmark doesn't 01:22:09 time ~/ccl/fx86cl -n -Q --eval "(progn (sqrt 1000000) (ccl:quit))" => 0.013 secs No output though 01:22:10 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:24 zRecursive: that SQRT takes about 30 cycles here. What do you think you're measuring? 01:23:26 pkhuong: I am using CLISP to do some scripting thing, i feel it is better than *sh ... 01:24:12 At lease LISP code is more elegent than *sh ... 01:24:49 pkhuong: "30 cycles" is in SBCL ? 01:26:23 harish [~harish@119.234.187.131] has joined #lisp 01:26:54 yes. the computation itself. 01:27:15 ok 01:29:59 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 01:32:57 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:57 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 01:34:40 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has joined #lisp 01:35:34 -!- eduardoboucas [~eduardobo@141.0.35.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:37:23 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:38:13 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:53 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:55 zRecursive: I use SBCL for scripting myself :) 01:45:09 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:45:22 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:29 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.187.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:45:49 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:04 chameco [~samuel@63.sub-70-215-4.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:53 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.19.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:01:10 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: honkfestival] 02:01:21 Debating between attending SPLASH/OOPSLA or ICFP this year. anyone have a recommendation or a thought on how the two differ? 02:03:31 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@76-205-169-48.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:03:39 -!- madMonkey [~elric@68.202.29.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:04:23 I went to SPLASH/OOPSLA a couple times, once in Montreal when there was a Montreal Lisp meeting at the same time, and once when the ILC colocated in reno with it. Both times the few talks I saw there were interesting. I wouldn't have paid my own money to go, though...both times I got some registration reimbursement. 02:05:29 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:44 Don't know anything about ICFP. 02:06:02 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:30 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:48 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.200.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:56 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-xoimpkvkznbzsfdr] has joined #lisp 02:10:32 madMonkey [~elric@68.202.29.217] has joined #lisp 02:11:52 Xach: thanks for the signal boost for cl-sort 02:11:54 patrickwonders: ICFP has more of the theoretical/well-grounded stuff, while SPLASH/OOPSLA have more nifty/exploratory hacks and "mainstream" implementation work, iirc. 02:12:13 It started as an offhand comment by pkhuong about dual pivot quicksort 02:12:28 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 02:12:53 Once I had gotten *that* mess working, doing the other sorts seemed trivial. Especially since I couldn't find anything else comparable. 02:13:00 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 02:13:26 patrickwonders: but you should be able to skim session/stream topics if not abstracts, by now (or look at previous years). 02:13:28 ICFP is in Boston this year. SPLASH is in Indianapolis (which I'd probably drive to) 02:13:34 cl-test-grid now says that local-time is all explody, so I guess I'll try to fix that now :/ 02:14:28 pkhuong: I have started looking at paper titles but haven't found abstracts yet both seem interesting was wondering if they had different "feels" that wouldn't show up necessarily in the web adverts... 02:14:42 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-87-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:38 pkhuong: oh, yes. I did the CL dual pivot quicksort. It's a straight port from the java in the original paper, so not as nice as it should be. 02:16:09 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 02:16:39 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-94-86.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:34 dlowe: yes. I'm slowly looking at it. There's some interesting analyses in . Not all of it is practical, but it helps understand what tiny details are important and why. 02:17:51 I think there were some update in the jdk version too. 02:19:04 -!- Pholey [~nigger@unaffiliated/pholey] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:19:51 "on averate is uses 1.9n ln n + O(n) [ which beats] 2n ln n + O(n)" >_> 02:20:22 Quadrescence: yes? 02:21:27 nothing, it just reminds me of how people improve multiplication strategies from n^(1+k) to n^(1+k-0.01) 02:23:18 hey, it's more than i could do. 02:28:18 pkhuong: I tried implementing it from an algorithm description, but the description seems to have been wrong, or at least missing an important detail. 02:29:25 dlowe: there's definitely a lot of crucial details. 02:29:40 pkhuong: the slides at http://www.slideshare.net/sebawild/average-case-analysis-of-java-7s-dual-pivot-quicksort seem to be suspect 02:30:04 now that I have an implementation, I can delve into why. 02:31:05 dlowe: yes.. something that doesn't see the relationship between dual-pivot partitioning and regular dutch national flag is eminently suspect. 02:31:20 Pholey [~nigger@c-98-238-187-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:31 the algorithm the author describes in slide 8 works on the actual sample data in the slide, but fails to work in the general case 02:34:21 The only issue I see is that L should be a line between two elements in the invariant. 02:35:09 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:11 ah, yes, looks like there's some >=/> confusion. 02:38:38 If that's all it is, I'll resurrect my previous version, which was much prettier. 02:39:26 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:27 Xach: is there anything you got from attending the OOPSLA that is not on video recordings? Q&As, meeting new people, stuff like that? 02:39:28 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:39:44 youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:04 dlowe: I think the arXiv paper covers partitioning really well though. 02:41:19 Funny. When I see an abstract, I automatically assume there's a paywall for the actual paper. 02:41:38 Thanks for the reference. 02:42:26 PuercoPop, if I might speak about conferences more generally, one of the biggest values in going to one is (a) meeting people, (b) drinking with them after. 02:42:32 (especially with ILC) 02:43:54 or hanging with them while they drink, if you don't feel like imbibing. I find it's harder to make that work in really large venues, though. 02:47:11 (oh of course you don't have to drink [alcohol]) 02:47:28 pkhuong, yeah that's true 02:49:14 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 02:49:40 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-189.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:36 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 02:51:38 *PuercoPop* nods 02:54:24 hmm 02:54:29 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:44 so how do i set a var to a string, then a string to a list? 02:55:03 In my limited experience Defcon was pretty cool even though I barely spoke to anybody and PyCon was meh, more about connection with people. 02:55:08 so i may concatenate them 02:55:10 (defvar x (coerce "hello" 'list)) 02:55:35 you can concatenate strings: (concatenate 'string "hello" "world") 02:55:55 was the ' correct? 02:56:10 yes 02:56:20 what does it mean... sorry 02:56:32 it means quote 02:56:52 it means that you need to read a book 02:56:55 Pholey, are you reading a book? 02:57:46 do you have any to suggest? preferably ebook? i am following a tutorial that is actually quite horrible at explaining things such as this 02:57:46 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.133.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:58:23 minion, tell Pholey about pcl 02:58:23 Pholey: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 02:58:57 thanks! 02:59:25 Also the book from guy steele is good to have as a reference imle: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node1.html#SECTION00100000000000000000 03:00:13 it's actually not good as a reference 03:00:42 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:00:52 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:01 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a1f.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:04:05 why stassats? 03:04:09 is it outdated? 03:04:23 yes 03:05:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:06:06 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:41 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:07:54 ahh didn't know. I liked is succinct language a lot. It was were I learned more about the loop macro I almost never have used yet 03:08:29 it is not significantly outdated 03:08:35 but still enough to cause confusion 03:10:43 -!- chameco [~samuel@63.sub-70-215-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:11:26 *PuercoPop* nods 03:11:29 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:32 PuercoPop: it's good as supplemental or contextual material for the real standard as long as you confirm any insights you think you get from it with the actual standard. 03:12:02 i find the cltl2 prose a nicer read, so it was more fun to read cover-to-cover...AFTER i felt i knew the standard pretty well 03:14:47 well I found the link later I had started reading PCL. Read through the loop part on an airplane and felt it gave me a more thorough idea of the loop DSL than PCL 03:17:19 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:19:01 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:20:04 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:21:31 How can i import functions in Foo.lisp into package Bar ? 03:22:16 packages do not care about files 03:22:23 and functions 03:22:31 it's all about symbols 03:22:32 zRecursive: in the package declaration of bar you can use :use or :import-from 03:23:19 PuercoPop: but Foo.lisp has on (in-package ...) definition 03:24:01 -!- Pholey [~nigger@c-98-238-187-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:48 and Bar.lisp has (in-package :MyBar), can i import functions from Foo.lisp in Bar.lisp ? 03:25:09 If you want to learn true things, pay attention to what stassats says. 03:25:41 zRecursive: the name of the file doesn't matter 03:25:53 Xach: sure 03:26:41 PuercoPop: then where can i put :use/:import-from in Foo.lisp ? 03:26:43 the in-package is what determines the namespace where the code that follows in next likes runes. 03:26:59 v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:08 where you define the package you had in (in-package ...) 03:27:39 The common pattern is to have a packages.lisp file where you define all your packages 03:27:59 PuercoPop: but 'defpackage is in package.lisp 03:28:18 not Foo.lisp 03:28:37 it doesn't matter where it is, as long as it is before in-package 03:28:38 so you have to put it there 03:28:39 https://github.com/redline6561/cl-6502/blob/master/src/packages.lisp 03:28:51 and that your .asd loads it better 03:28:54 stassats`: ok 03:29:08 *first 03:29:10 PuercoPop: thx 03:29:32 *stassats`* is wondering what "likes runes" means 03:30:03 -!- drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [Quit: :O] 03:30:34 sorry about the typo. I meant the code that follows in the next line runs 03:30:48 excuse me for getting shamanical! 03:30:50 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 03:31:04 that' ome trange typo 03:32:03 yeah, that is why I get for typing while watching anime 03:33:21 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:32 "watching anime", there's your problem 03:34:26 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 03:34:59 my problem too =) 03:35:48 they should make one on lisp hackers 03:38:21 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:39:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain has some common lisp code in it. 03:39:23 guest23 [47e9bff2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.233.191.242] has joined #lisp 03:39:32 -!- guest23 [47e9bff2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.233.191.242] has left #lisp 03:39:42 they took it from the cmu archive, even, iirc 03:44:32 Lain was full of hacker themes 03:45:21 hmmm... will definitely have to check it out. might help with the vocab next time i'm with some japanese hackers. 03:45:31 nice! 03:46:39 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:08 off-tangent, has anybody had any communication at all with the japanese lisp community? i've been here in osaka for 2 years now and all i could find were ruby groups =( 03:48:32 You might do better to brush up on maid cafe etiquette. :) 03:49:26 hahaha... my girl's eyes popped out when we first saw them, we had just arrived 03:49:32 momo-reina: I think Quadrescence knows Fukumachi 03:49:49 momo-reina: There is a group called Ariel Networks 03:50:08 which are into CL (and perl also) 03:50:29 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:50:35 Fukumachi and group are in Tokyo I think, I did try to get in touch in the beginning 03:50:43 Kyoto :) 03:51:15 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 03:51:55 really? i always thought that JLUG was based in tokyo... are you here as well Quadrescence? 03:52:41 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 03:52:45 No, I'm in California. Maybe I'll live in Japan one day; I'd love to. :) But Fukamachi and I are pretty good friends. 03:52:48 would be nice to meet up with a kindred spirit... i even thought of learning ruby just so i could relate to the groups here.. for a second anyway. 03:53:19 momo-reina, JLUG might be a Tokyo thing; I don't know. 03:53:27 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 03:53:44 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:46 that's great, would you know how i can get in touch with him? 03:54:04 Did you try emailing? 03:54:52 He's a friendly guy, so I can't imagine him not responding. (Though he seems to have been busy since after he visited here.) 03:56:01 btw momo-reina have you tried going to Ruby groups and evangelize them to CL saying "Why stop at halfway to Lisp" 03:56:19 that sounds annoying. 03:56:36 :) 03:58:19 PuercoPop, I jokingly did that once at a vintage computer festival where someone was coding Apple II stuff in Ruby. But his response was "I just want to get the job done, not wallow in the greatness of the language." :) 03:58:30 Quadrescence: I've tried emailing the Japan Lisp User Group, got no response. I did hear someone mention Fukumachi in relation to that group so that's why I assumed he was in Tokyo. Haven't emailed him personally, no email =) 03:58:58 -!- embee is now known as eMBee 03:59:23 Well, I don't like dividing programmers according to their language, in Lima I sometimes go to Ruby or Javascript groups to meet more people and draw examples from Python (which I know more) and recently CL 03:59:25 PuercoPop: I tried bringing it up at a hacker meet up once.. the response I got was "what's that?" 03:59:36 I only ever met one other lisper irl that I know of. 03:59:48 guy was sort of a prick 03:59:50 though a guy that was hacking scala came up and we had a good chat 04:00:12 momo-reina: his email is on this GH page https://github.com/fukamachi 04:00:18 momo-reina, if you're ever in california, let me know. We can hack on a project for a few days. I'm most productive then! 04:00:54 Quadrescence: would love to! 04:01:06 PuercoPop: thanks, must not have had enough coffee this morning 04:01:42 Same in Lima. but because I'm in NYC for 3 months I went to a clojure meetup and met a CL that had been coding in CL for 19 years. I was excited and tried not to barrage him with questions. 04:02:21 (same as in lack of rl lispers. slowing convincing my friends to pick it up though) 04:02:24 did he have a white beard? 04:03:29 jaja no 04:05:40 pholey [~nigger@unaffiliated/pholey] has joined #lisp 04:05:52 ok, so i am using drakma 04:06:25 it reads the html of lisp.org perfectly 04:06:36 but how do i read the page if it does not have html? 04:06:39 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a1f.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:57 that question does not make any sense 04:07:07 im sorry 04:07:08 pholey: you may need to convert the response to a string. 04:07:23 i think it does that automatically 04:07:24 pholey: using e.g. flex:octets-to-string 04:07:30 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:31 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:33 (drakma:http-request "http://lisp.org/") 04:07:40 returns the html just fine by itself 04:07:52 pholey: well, then my psychic inference skills failed on me and your question makes no sense. 04:07:57 pholey: drakma is just HTTP client library, it doesn't do anything to interpret the response, so it will give you back a stream or string that contains the data returned 04:08:24 i see, but in this case drakma only gives me back the connection info without the data 04:08:29 from the site 04:08:49 are you sure? 04:08:57 let me look over it one more time 04:08:59 pholey: read the documentation, depending on options you get the data back in different forms 04:09:30 btw Quadrescence I will take your word if I'm ever in California 04:09:48 Great. :) 04:10:56 *stassats`* will be picketing Quadrescence's home to stop production of quickutil if he's ever in California 04:11:16 ah 04:11:26 h4ns you were right 04:11:50 (flex:octets-to-string (drakma:http-request sess_url) ) did the trick for me 04:12:15 stassats`, come in, have some drinks, and hack on sbcl (or quickutil!) 04:15:46 fenton [~fenton@ppp-115-87-6-66.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:15:54 anybody have a link for regex's? 04:16:06 need to find a text between '' 04:16:14 pholey: http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre/ 04:16:45 pholey: in particular, ppcre:scan-to-strings 04:20:16 Is there any reason why (setf x (f x)) (g x) would be a lot faster than just (g (f x)) ? 04:20:36 (and g is recursive) 04:21:24 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:41 what's the context? 04:21:50 they are not inlined and that's all the code? 04:22:32 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:42 no, there's a lot more code, it's something like this: (defun g (x) (some-loop (let ((x x)) (setf x (f x)) (g x)))) 04:23:23 there's an IF around all the body of G too, but it's hardly relevant 04:23:56 curiously, when I eliminate the SETF and just do (g (f x)), the search ends up being 10x slower. 04:24:09 paste the actual code 04:24:48 i'd rather not do that since it's huge and it's hard to extract a minimal example from it 04:25:02 then goodbye 04:27:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:34:57 The issue was subtle and my problem. There was an inner loop form (inner to the LET), and the state of the loop depended on previous mutations. 04:42:48 v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:02 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:49:07 ksinkar [~ksinkar@61.12.126.211] has joined #lisp 04:50:23 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:42 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:52:56 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:08 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:03:18 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.165.84] has joined #lisp 05:04:06 ok so when i run sbcl script.lisp, it just brings up the interpreter 05:04:33 i tried to add #!/usr/bin/sbcl --noinform and chmod 777 it 05:04:49 but nogo, i get errors for syntax that are not errors in the interpreter 05:05:23 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:31 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:07:21 pholey: there is a --script option to sbcl that might help 05:08:29 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:30 but i get things like: 05:08:31 ./Poll.lisp: line 4: ql:quickload: command not found 05:08:31 ./Poll.lisp: line 6: defvar: command not found 05:08:31 ./Poll.lisp: line 7: coerce: command not found 05:08:45 pholey: don't paste your junk here. 05:08:53 *sorry* 05:08:56 will gist it 05:09:40 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:59 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:13:14 h4ns: https://gist.github.com/Pholey/e69d779b9143cd1015c4 05:13:40 pholey: --script is meant to be used for hasbang scripts. you want --load 05:16:10 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:18:27 i see, thank you! 05:18:30 pholey: the reason why you don't find clear instructions on how to run a lisp program from the shell is that we don't do it that way, mostly. 05:18:42 how is it done then? 05:18:50 pholey: rather, we develop in a long-running lisp process, using emacs and slime. 05:19:10 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:19:38 pholey: deploying long-running processes using --load is probably fine (under certain conditions), but if you need fast startup from the shell, you want to dump an image. buildapp is useful for that. 05:19:59 buildapp? 05:20:10 use google 05:20:16 aye aye 05:21:10 www.xach.com/lisp/buildapp 05:22:35 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.244.243] has joined #lisp 05:24:19 adnap_ [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:23 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.200.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 05:24:31 -!- adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:25:37 H4ns, sbcl has pretty good support for writing out images, IIRC. 05:26:34 is the regex different in lisp than other languages? 05:26:46 i mean in the sense of scanning 05:26:47 jack_rabbit: did i say something else? 05:26:54 ppcre are perl-compatible-ish. that's why they're called that. 05:27:17 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 05:27:25 pholey: you may be bitten by the fact that backslashes in literal strings are eaten by lisp 05:27:44 pholey: so in order to match a digit, say, you'd need to write your regular expression as "\\d" in a lisp string. 05:28:00 H4ns, I was referring to save-lisp-and-die. Maybe that's what buildapp does. 05:28:21 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [] 05:29:10 jack_rabbit: no. it uses save-lisp-and-die. maybe you want to look at the buildapp documentation if you want to engage in discussing it. 05:30:09 fair enough. 05:30:13 paul0 [~paul0@177.132.174.55] has joined #lisp 05:30:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:34:14 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:39 so i got my regex to work 05:36:43 -!- youlysse` is now known as youlysses-laptop 05:36:45 (sorry!) 05:37:06 and it comes out in little #("content") 05:37:32 however when i write the regex out to a string, i get something different than what was in the #() 05:38:01 you're not making much sense. how do you write out the regex? use paste.lisp.org. 05:40:05 h4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137965 05:40:07 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:40:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:40:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:40:15 does common lisp use the perl regex engine? 05:40:24 Teratogen: no 05:40:53 pholey: you're scanning to a register. maybe you want to come up with a regular expression that just matches the id instead? 05:41:51 pholey: (?<=').*(?=') 05:42:06 pholey: i'll gladly admit that it won't work for all cases. 05:42:40 pholey: (?<=').?*(?=') will reliably match the first string enclosed in single quotes. 05:43:00 pholey: if you prefer to deal with registers, maybe you want ppcre:register-groups-bind 05:43:23 i am unsure as to what a register is 05:43:47 -!- ante__ [~cymew@fw01.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:43:50 pholey: a register is what you get from using (.+?) 05:43:55 btw pholey to run from the command line I've seen ppl use sbcl --eval, but mainly for calling a single function (tests/generate documentation, etc) 05:44:38 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:49 pholey: dang, scratch my last regexp, it should be (?<=').*?(?=') 05:44:50 buildapp seems to be what i want however 05:47:34 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 05:50:07 however h4ns, i am faced with the same thing: 05:50:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137966 05:51:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has joined #lisp 05:51:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has quit [Changing host] 05:51:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:51:51 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:52:55 -!- spacebat [spacebat@core.ubermonkey.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-94-86.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:52:57 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 05:52:58 hwiersma2 [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:12 btw you don't have to assign everything pholey 05:53:22 what do you mean? 05:53:29 no need to use defvar 05:53:46 just run (ppcre:scan-to-strings "(?<=').*?(?=')" sess) 05:53:48 pholey: defvar does not re-bind when the variable is already bound. 05:53:58 and it will print in the repl the result 05:53:59 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:54:09 and you can see it again by typing * 05:54:36 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-94-86.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:09 I rewrote your previous gist to a more idiomatic version https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/267fca29d19fcd48b937 althouhg I still don't know why are you coercing to string. 05:55:18 interesting 05:55:46 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-214-94-86.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:50 PuercoPop: using underscores in variable names is not idiomatic 05:56:22 H4ns: I basically just used let* instead of defvaring, left teh rest intact. 05:56:23 because it seems to be the only way it will let me write a string var that i have found so far.. lol 05:56:26 but yeah 05:56:51 the coercing is just not needed. i'd also not give names to things that are used only once. 05:57:24 what is an alternate way then? i know its not good.. but its all i know 05:57:52 also puercopop: lets* ? 05:58:10 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 05:58:11 yeah because you reused poll-id 05:58:47 the normal let binds all the variables in parallel so you can refer to a variable in the same let statement 05:58:57 with let* it does so in a sequence 05:58:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-94-86.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:59:00 so you can 05:59:38 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:59:50 interesting 05:59:56 very helpful as well 06:00:04 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 06:01:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:01:37 spacebat [spacebat@core.ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:07 but H4ns is right if you are trying to find it how a library works just write the literal expresions and evaluate them on the repl. You have slime running right? 06:03:44 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 06:05:17 no :/ 06:05:26 also puercopop: 06:05:32 unix_t))) 06:05:39 is that an extra ")"? 06:06:00 line 7 06:10:21 not sure what you mean, the let statement syntax is like this (let ((..)) body) 06:11:00 I use paredit so I normally don't balance parenthesis myself. One question what do you want to extract fro the url? 06:11:29 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:38 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:11:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:11:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:11:45 i see 06:12:10 anything between the first instance of quotes puercopop 06:12:20 single quotes 06:12:45 then i wish to put extracted data into another URL 06:13:16 why not just trim anything before that first quote and everything after the second one? 06:13:27 would that not be inefficient? 06:13:49 also, i would have no idea how to do that 06:14:01 i have been in lisp for a total of.. 3-4 hours 06:15:23 yes, but you are doing a http-request so I figure not the bottleneck. Don't worry I know how you feel. It is a lot to swallow at once but it is pretty cool (at least to me). 06:15:54 i love the syntax, i just wish it was highly documented 06:16:03 you see i learn best when i work with the code 06:16:41 while i do read docs, it usually only when i need something, but lisp is not as well documented as say, python, ruby or C++ 06:16:49 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 06:16:53 pholey: I am a lisp newbie as you going through the same ordeal. I tried reading a lot of code but learned that until you start writing it you don't really learn much. 06:17:02 ^ 06:17:09 clhs let 06:17:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 06:17:33 clhs string-trim 06:17:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_tr.htm 06:17:38 pholey:  to trim string :) 06:18:23 thanks! 06:18:28 thats actually really easy 06:19:16 puercopop, what did you learn best from? a lot of these docs are not "easy on the eyes" if you know what i mean.. 06:19:37 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c235.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:13 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:01 but they are the most informative ones, I have them open on emacs as to avoid focusing on anything but text 06:22:47 this string trim doesn't seem to be working the way i would expect it to... 06:23:15 (string-left-trim "'" (string-right-trim "'" sess)) <-------- that should work right? 06:23:16 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:23:29 I am still far from learning. I found PCL, reading other people's code and asking questions's here to be most helpful. People here are very helpful provided you phrase your question properly. 06:23:43 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gjnnfglujbjpfwvm] has joined #lisp 06:23:43 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gjnnfglujbjpfwvm] has quit [Changing host] 06:23:43 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:24:15 pholey: some characters have some special symbol like #\Space I'm thinking that ' is in those characters, trying to find the docs on that table. 06:24:20 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:24:25 pholey: what's sess? 06:24:33 (string-left-trim "\'" "PDV_n7215679='d6ad8e8a94|1124';PD_vote7215679(0);") 06:24:40 sess is that string Bike 06:24:44 i have to escape the '? 06:24:53 string-trim trims off those characters, not /to/ those characters. 06:25:04 sure 06:25:09 thats what i want 06:25:11 So I would have to find those characters first then 06:25:35 so (string-trim "'" "PDV_(0);") => "PDV_(0);" 06:25:49 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:15 but i just want to cut everything from the quotes on 06:26:52 so left and right should work for that correct? 06:28:17 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:28:50 -!- hwiersma2 [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:31:20 ok apparently one strategy is to use position to find the the ' and then subseq to return the part of the string we are interested it 06:31:27 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:32 Aren't you already using regexes? 06:32:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:32:55 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:33:31 Bike: I steered him away of those, I think I have found a (not very performant) solution. Writing it up 06:34:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:34:22 i am so confused right now 06:34:39 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:34:41 banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.143.88] has joined #lisp 06:34:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:34:55 puercopop would you mind commenting your code? 06:36:24 *PuercoPop* nods 06:38:20 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:39 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.165.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:41:31 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:42:03 pholey: this is the extracting between the quoutes part 06:42:04 https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5946671 06:44:06 i see 06:44:07 and have updated the previous gist to extract it from what drakma returns 06:45:17 where does it *return* to? 06:45:49 PuercoPop: i'm not sure whether a regexp based solution would not be better - think of error reporting. your code will throw opaque errors if there are no quotes or only one quote. error handling will make the code more obscure. 06:45:53 just saying. 06:45:57 to the repl 06:46:25 wait i see it 06:46:40 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-xoimpkvkznbzsfdr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:46:44 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 06:47:26 PuercoPop: rather than using subseq, which conses up a new string, you can use position's :start. 06:47:38 H4ns: nods. Yeah. I was thinking that maybe using fewer libraries to start with would help a beginner? Now he can replace-between quotes with the cl-ppcre? 06:48:16 PuercoPop: who cares about fewer libraries now that there is quicklisp? 06:49:13 I meant due less moving parts. 06:49:22 Bike: nods 06:50:21 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:23 -!- flip214_ [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:18 it also cleans up the code, thanks 06:51:49 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 06:51:49 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:52:57 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-cljmjkpmylqcorxp] has joined #lisp 06:52:58 v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:55:31 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Client Quit] 06:56:11 Well there was a function in cl-ppcre library for exactly what we wanted 06:56:20 the code is much more easier: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/267fca29d19fcd48b937 06:56:23 *shorter 06:56:35 forgot seconds 06:57:04 pholey: what was the next step? 06:57:41 oh 06:57:48 inserting it into another URL string 06:58:35 in python we had "%s"% variable 06:58:47 or ruby's "#{variable}" 06:59:08 use format. 06:59:12 in python you shouldn't do the either there is not format and when using % you should always use a tuple 06:59:20 and yeah, in cl there is format 06:59:27 *now 06:59:40 well sure 06:59:46 but it was just an example 07:00:17 i am currently looking for a CL syntax highlighter for Gedit 07:00:25 then trying to figure out how to install it 07:01:29 -!- gt`` [~user@202.80.46.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:48 so you do (format nil "url=~s" prev-url) the nil is to which stream return, if t you print to stdout if nil you return it as a string. the ~s interpolate a string from the arguments 07:02:08 pholey: just use emacs with slime, you are missing out 07:02:29 i accidentally installed emacs on my system 07:02:34 you can inspect live variables with emacs. There is a major-mode to make emacs work like gedit if you want 07:03:06 nostoi [~nostoi@170.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:39 yeah because i don't like how emacs feels 07:03:50 it feels like vim 07:04:07 vim with a GUI, but none of the pleasures of it 07:04:52 vim is like the Mac OS X of text editors imho 07:05:06 PuercoPop: ... don't insult ViM 07:05:20 good defaults, consistent metaphors and sucks when you try to extend it past them 07:05:36 lol 07:06:49 you can use evil-mode from emacs to get an vim-feel. But I've grown to used to the emacs key-bindings to return to ones from vi. 07:07:10 p_l: It wasn't my intention to insult vim 07:08:36 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.244.243] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 07:08:49 (OTOH, the ugly truth of "good defaults" - the only intuitive interface is the nipple, and even that involves hours of training) 07:09:46 lol! btw what does OTOH stands for? 07:10:10 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:10:11 "On The Other Hand" 07:10:50 PuercoPorOtraParte 07:11:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:29 ehu [~Erik@109.33.55.30] has joined #lisp 07:14:09 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@170.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:14:14 bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 07:14:54 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 07:14:58 *PuercoPop* nods 07:15:20 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 07:15:20 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:20 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:15:46 what I've been trying to figure out is what does this OH #irc preceding some tweets mean 07:16:15 you mean hash tags? 07:16:24 the OH is not a hashtag 07:16:32 PuercoPop: I think it means "OverHeard on irc" 07:16:33 like https://twitter.com/symbo1ics/status/354025085520195584 07:16:39 ahh makes sense 07:17:02 :) 07:19:12 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:20:23 nostoi [~nostoi@170.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:40 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.71.239] has left #lisp 07:27:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:27:19 puercopop, one last thing i think... 07:27:23 https://gist.github.com/Pholey/e69d779b9143cd1015c4 07:27:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has joined #lisp 07:27:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has quit [Changing host] 07:27:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:27:43 would that be correct useage of the *? 07:28:41 no, the * is for the repl only 07:28:44 iirc 07:29:37 in that case you can use another let, and maybe make the first part a function, retrieve-poll-data or something like that 07:29:47 well thats how i would access the previous function correct? 07:29:51 err 07:29:53 the output anyways 07:30:08 pholey: don't know if it works outside the repl 07:30:12 ante__ [~cymew@80.169.182.164] has joined #lisp 07:30:54 and Bike suggested to use :start so between quotes was rewrited to https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5946671 07:30:55 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:15 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@96.69-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:32:15 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@96.69-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 07:32:15 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:32:29 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 07:33:41 PuercoPop, it is for the REPL only, correct 07:33:46 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-5.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:58 So you could do something along the lines of https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/6b5948d0cdd9ba6b7d8f 07:34:36 -!- ante__ [~cymew@80.169.182.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:35:17 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:54 oh no 07:37:04 puercopop you are not going to like this one 07:37:12 i had the same issue in ruby 07:37:21 there is a pipe in the URL 07:37:45 and it is absolutely needed, but it throws an invalid URI error 07:38:11 you mean you have to escape the URL? 07:38:30 i am actually a bit confused on how we did it 07:38:39 because it turned into a huge mess 07:38:47 but how would one escape the URL? 07:39:38 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@170.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:40:17 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:41:14 pholey: hunchentoot:url-encode or drakma:url-encode may work for you 07:41:17 probably with an ad-hoc libary. Pains me to admit that although a web developer I have never cared to learn what are valid URL characters (nor the difference between URI and URL). 07:42:03 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 07:42:06 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:30 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 07:46:27 PuercoPop: or IRI 07:47:20 ehu: didn't even knew there was such a thing as IRI! 07:47:42 "International" URI 07:47:54 yeah, just reading the wikipedia page of it 07:47:59 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:48:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:49:02 and learn about IDN homograph attacks! 07:59:32 harish [~harish@119.234.142.183] has joined #lisp 08:00:16 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:01:15 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yfoanwlwlimpvhyw] has joined #lisp 08:03:14 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:03:41 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:17 hajovonta [~user@173.248.133.249] has joined #lisp 08:07:19 hello 08:09:11 -!- adnap_ is now known as adnap 08:10:54 kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-239-139.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:13:19 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:47 oi 08:15:26 h4ns is adding headers to drakma possible? 08:15:29 question: i have to concatenate strings that contain " characters, and so i have to escape them. escape characters make my code unreadable. is there a better way? 08:15:32 pholey: of course. 08:15:42 pholey: now would be a good time to read the manual. 08:16:26 also, i have to insert (concatenate) evaluated forms into the string, that makes the problem even worse 08:17:16 like this: (concatenate 'string "" (another-evaluated-form) "") 08:17:25 hajovonta: why do you need to concatenate strings? i rarely find concatenating superior to using a string stream. 08:17:33 H4ns: do you know how do I define the an external encoding in SBCL? I seem to recall there being a way in the clhs but can't find it 08:17:38 hajovonta: ' can be used in " 08:18:06 hajovonta: (also, html does not require quotes at all) 08:18:18 PuercoPop: what do you mean by "define"? 08:18:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:27 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has joined #lisp 08:18:27 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 08:18:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has quit [Changing host] 08:18:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:18:52 H4ns: but then the generated html source will be harder to read. 08:19:11 I meant just create a valid external-format specifier, not define my own 08:19:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:52 hajovonta: why don't you generate your html properly instead of concatenating strings? look at xhtmlgen or any of the other html generators. 08:19:54 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:08 PuercoPop: no. if i needed to know, i'd consult the manual first. 08:21:15 H4ns: i am generating javascript expressions dynamically 08:21:52 hajovonta: *shiver* 08:21:57 :-) 08:22:28 hajovonta: also, that should not stop you from generating the embedded html properly, other than concatenating strings. 08:23:02 hajovonta: i.e. the html generators can create strings from s-expressions for you that you can then put into your generated (*ugh*) javascript 08:24:19 H4ns: i have variables whose values i want to insert into javascript code so that when i type into the html form, it does something on client side 08:24:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:25:33 i already use allegroserve to generate html, and i came up with a working version that is usable, and i want to clean up the code to be more readable 08:25:56 hajovonta: try (let ((url "blah") (text "foo")) (xhtml-generator:with-xhtml () ((:a :href url) (:princ text)))) 08:26:01 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:27:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:27:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has joined #lisp 08:27:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has quit [Changing host] 08:27:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:27:57 the html part is good, i have troubles with generating javasscript code 08:28:38 hajovonta: your approach is ugly, so it is hard to come up with suggestions to make the execution beautiful :) 08:29:04 hajovonta: you could try using parenscript to generate your javascript. 08:30:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:30:20 i put an example code here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137967 08:31:06 i have this "ng-model" which is angularjs code. 08:31:13 hello lispers :) 08:31:15 so it is a mix of html and js 08:31:21 hello fe[nl]ix 08:31:43 html rhymes with hell 08:32:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-239-139.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:32:08 hajovonta: you're doing it wrong. 08:32:39 and i suppose i would have troubles with an existing library that generates js. and i have this other constraint that restricts me from using too many external libraries for a good reason 08:32:53 H4ns: i just thought there is a built-in language feature in cl 08:33:04 but if not, i guess i have to write it myself :) 08:33:15 hajovonta: a built in language to generate angularjs expressions? 08:33:31 Well, angular is a reasonable choice. 08:33:39 H4ns: no... to better concatenate strings with " characters 08:33:40 I don't see why parenscript can't do what you want. 08:34:05 Zhivago: very much so, i'm not debating that. i just don't think that generating angularjs code from common lisp is a great idea. 08:34:08 i don't know. i just give it a try. thanks for the suggestion! 08:34:28 Maybe in general, but I can really see it working well in angularjs. 08:34:29 H4ns: why is that? 08:34:55 It's really well structured for that kind of thing -- you'd be able to write controllers in lisp. 08:35:05 hajovonta: because to me, it seems much easier and straightforward to just write javascript with angularjs. 08:35:09 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 08:35:14 Well, there's also that. 08:35:29 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:35:32 But angular js is sufficiently demagicked that I could see it working reasonably from lisp. 08:36:08 Is there any reason not to just write the data providers in lisp? 08:37:20 i'd use javascript in the ui and serve json data from lisp. 08:38:04 That would be the least painful approach, but I could also see lisp generating the partial templates and controller code and so on. 08:38:27 sure. and with source maps, there even might be a path to debugability. 08:38:31 Zhivago: no. but performance is not an issue, it's a small application, i'm not expert in lisp nor js, and wanted to get it running asap. so i now have a working version and just started hacking around to see what can be done better 08:38:38 and your suggestions are welcome. 08:39:36 i must add that i have limited heap so i can't use libraries for everything. 08:39:49 Limited heap, where? 08:39:59 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:40:00 in allegro cl express 08:40:02 In the browser or in the server? 08:40:13 hajovonta: why are you using allegro? 08:40:25 Fair enough. Then I'd just have it spit out json in response to requests. 08:41:07 H4ns: for historical reasons. I now have more experience in using sbcl and hunchentoot than when i started working on the project 08:42:06 so i started slowly moving the whole thing. 08:42:48 hajovonta: the best way would be to switch over to a platform that you get support for here (sbcl/hunchentoot), give up on the idea of generating html and javascript and just write things the way they're meant to be written with angularjs, then serve json from your lisp. => bliss 08:43:03 is there any reason why http request would fail to recognize the scheme after using url-encode on the url? 08:43:10 kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-239-139.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:43:22 PuercoPop: it would encode the first colon. 08:43:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:43:48 H4ns: yes i came to this conclusion, too. :) 08:44:01 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:44:23 nods 08:45:03 H4ns: but it is not easy either, because Allegro is so good and easy to use, and there are a lot of work that needs to be done to switch over and it will be a slow process 08:45:13 but thanks for the info anyway 08:45:34 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172.15.249.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:46:53 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.142.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:08 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:50:05 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 08:51:30 hajovonta: well, if you ever want to use your program for anything but experimentation, you'll have to pay money to franz or switch to a free implementation anyway. 09:01:14 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 09:02:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:04:16 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.143.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:04:18 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:05:28 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.33.55.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:13:28 H4ns: my program actually generates me money. after a time it will pay for itself. but i am not relying on this outcome and had already started switching to sbcl. using it has numerous other benefits, too. 09:14:14 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:15:43 allegro cl made my first steps into lisp easy. this was so probably because the support of Lisp on Windows in general is very poor. at least as i see it. 09:16:39 hajovonta: are you aware of the fact that you are violating the license agreement that you have with franz? 09:16:58 H4ns: yes. 09:18:42 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:22:16 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 09:24:17 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:24:23 but it's not that obvious. i don't sell any products or services. my application helps me making better informed business decisions. 09:25:22 hajovonta: and are you aware that this channel is logged ? 09:25:49 hajovonta: that is just splitting hairs. you are using pirated software for a commercial purpose and you are asking to get free support for that here. 09:28:18 H4ns: i did not asked for free support for Allegro, I asked for general CL support. 09:28:50 hajovonta: no. your heap limit is just a result of your illegal activity, for example. 09:29:41 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:29:51 Yeah, that's a good point -- the allegro license is pretty restrictive. 09:29:52 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 09:30:14 hajovonta: i don't care about how you break franz' license, but i'd suggest that if you decide that you want to conduct such illegal activity, you do it in private. 09:30:55 hajovonta: maybe you'd even get a better license from franz if you talked to them. they're generally nice people. 09:31:17 H4ns: sure. you asked a question out of curiosity, and i answered. i see nothing wrong with that. i was honest. 09:31:38 hajovonta: when breaking the law, honesty is not always the wisest approach. 09:32:36 which is one of the good reasons to avoid breaking the law in the first place :) 09:33:49 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:03 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 09:39:10 H4ns: maybe i expressed myself in a wrong way. it may be because my english isn't very good. and i made you make an under-informed opinion. sorry about that. 09:39:41 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:43:29 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.227.126] has joined #lisp 09:44:47 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:47 banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.171.205] has joined #lisp 09:57:33 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.234.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:43 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:51 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:06:30 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:07:19 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-205-30.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:50 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:13:31 Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-56-42.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:21 -!- pholey [~nigger@unaffiliated/pholey] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:15:54 Are there any ASDF gurus in here this morning? There's an unanswered question on stack overflow ("ASDF loads libraries that are loaded already"): http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17498524/asdf-loads-libraries-that-are-loaded-already 10:16:03 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-5.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:16:04 -!- Beetny_ is now known as Beetny 10:16:09 *fe[nl]ix* to the rescue 10:16:20 go for it 10:17:42 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.227.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:25:23 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:39 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-204-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:35:34 -!- CrazyEddy [~antired@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:37:32 CrazyEddy [~indehisce@113.52.233.162] has joined #lisp 10:37:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.123] has joined #lisp 10:37:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.123] has quit [Changing host] 10:37:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:38:23 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:38:41 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 10:38:43 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has left #lisp 10:38:45 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 10:40:07 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:40:26 -!- CrazyEddy [~indehisce@113.52.233.162] has quit [Changing host] 10:40:26 CrazyEddy [~indehisce@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:40:58 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-aannkpmhfpxaybjo] has joined #lisp 10:46:41 NickLevine: that looks like a bug 10:47:39 my guess is that somehow ASDF gets reloaded when the saved image is started and the previous configuration gets clobbered 10:47:40 In asdf? 10:48:23 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-205-30.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:07 Ho hum, not a pretty sight 10:49:18 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.240] has joined #lisp 10:50:41 who's maintaining asdf now? 10:51:18 Robert Goldman a.k.a. rpg 10:51:55 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:52:02 what fare no longer working on asdf? 10:52:05 Kvaks [~kvaks@23.168.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:52:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:52:21 would that be the rpgsimmaster in this room? 10:52:35 maxm: I believe not 10:53:50 well he did pretty awesome job, pretty amazing how much better asdf3 is then asdf 1 10:56:06 Yes indeed. But I gather one of the perils of mountain climbing is that you imagine the ridge and blue sky you see in front of you is the summit... 10:57:29 -!- Guest7424 is now known as jdz 10:57:56 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.19.185] has joined #lisp 10:58:01 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:59 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.19.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:19 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@23.168.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 11:04:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:09:56 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-189.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10:52 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13:05 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:15:53 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:46 zRecursive [~czsq888@182.139.87.227] has joined #lisp 11:17:55 rptb1 [~Adium@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:22 hey guys! how would/do you name your files containing data as s-expressions, filename extension-wise? 11:18:44 smth like data.xml.sexp as opposed to code.lisp 11:19:17 SBCL uses lisp-expr 11:19:47 jdz: as a filename extension? 11:20:19 sid_cypher: yes 11:20:32 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:21:32 okay, that's a bit too long for my tastes :) 11:22:40 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 11:22:47 but it does make me think that [file].[mimetype].sexp pattern is cool 11:22:51 sid_cypher: I'd pick an extension that relates to what kind of data it is, rather than the data format 11:23:09 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:04 matko: you're right, of course, that the "kind of data" part is important, but file extensions do describe the format usually 11:25:23 like picture.png.tar.bz2 - it's PNG data, tarballed, compressed - and the format is bzip2 archive ^^ 11:26:29 MrTurdBurger [7a6a34f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.106.52.244] has joined #lisp 11:27:23 Ah yes, I suppose that's true. But in that case, isn't the format just lisp? 11:28:28 I just fucked up CLISP, have no idea have to fix it. Oh fuck. 11:28:31 i'd say that .lisp is some code ready for evaluation, and .sexp needs some help 11:28:34 *how 11:29:04 MrTurdBurger: how do you accidentally entire CLISP? 11:29:30 It wasn't by accident, I was fucking around with it, and bam, it completely and totally fucks up. 11:29:40 -!- MrTurdBurger [7a6a34f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.106.52.244] has left #lisp 11:29:59 MrTurdBurger: did you have backups/easy-rollback ? 11:34:58 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:35:40 -!- rptb1 [~Adium@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has left #lisp 11:35:43 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 11:42:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:54 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:45:41 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.19.185] has joined #lisp 11:46:54 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@182.139.87.227] has left #lisp 11:55:21 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:55:34 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:57 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:57:22 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 12:00:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-56-42.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:51 clhs: setf 12:05:55 apparently specbot doesn't like me or doesn't behave like cliki said it would. 12:06:52 i wonder if there's a channel policy regarding swear words and such? 12:07:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:07 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.19.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07:21 clhs:setf 12:08:13 sid_cypher: the syntax is "clhs setf" 12:08:16 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:08:19 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-115-87-6-66.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08:36 Xach: oooh thanks. can i try? 12:08:44 clhs setf 12:08:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_setf_.htm 12:08:52 haha great 12:09:21 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:09:59 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:10:13 *Xach* uses http://xach.com/clhs for lookup in the browser 12:12:19 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:13:41 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 12:17:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 12:21:20 Joreji [~thomas@156-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-007-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:13 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-27-0.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:23:56 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:24:28 teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has joined #lisp 12:26:01 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:26:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@156-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30:00 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 12:30:56 Joreji [~thomas@i10-132.informatik.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:48 lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 12:38:36 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:53 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:39:50 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:07 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:09 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 12:48:22 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:47 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:52:17 blrm [~blair@twdp-174-109-132-216.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:42 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:55 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:03:58 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-41-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:19 HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 13:05:12 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-247-189.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 AryanKing [~AryanGeni@c122-106-52-244.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:07:31 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:49 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:08:27 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@i10-132.informatik.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:30 -!- igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@71-219-141-95.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:36 -!- AryanKing [~AryanGeni@c122-106-52-244.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 13:14:18 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:15 igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@71.219.141.83] has joined #lisp 13:21:13 eXhumd [~papercut@141.0.35.130] has joined #lisp 13:23:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:26:40 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.227.126] has joined #lisp 13:27:38 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.244.243] has joined #lisp 13:27:56 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:36 -!- ksinkar [~ksinkar@61.12.126.211] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:29:48 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 13:30:53 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:31 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 13:36:15 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 13:36:24 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:41 hi everyone. I'm trying to reverse engineer a piece of Lisp-ish code ( https://github.com/nlphacker/Audacity/blob/master/plug-ins/clicktrack.ny ), and if someone has a couple of minutes to take a look at it and help me figure out what is happening there, I'd be much appreciated. 13:36:49 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 13:37:03 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:38:14 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:39:13 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:39:42 eXhumd: why do you reverse-engineer if you have the source code available? 13:40:45 you're right, it was a dumb way to put it. it was just that Lisp is so unreadable to me that it is almost like reverse engineering :) 13:41:13 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:15 Well, I suggest asking a specific question about the first thing that confuses you. 13:41:21 minion: tell eXhumd about PCL 13:41:21 eXhumd: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:42:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:42:21 Audacity Plugins are written in Nyquist/XLISP, not in Common Lisp 13:42:27 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:42:31 true story, bro 13:42:39 ok 13:42:50 ... so PCL doesn't help much ... 13:42:57 you very sure? 13:43:06 yes 13:43:07 speaking of doing extra work, i've been pondering about how to collect a list of all the CHARACTERs in the alphabet... so far, i've thought of looping from 97 to (+ 97 26) and getting mapping it through code-char. Seems fine to me but wondering if there's a better way 13:43:30 so where could I find some info? 13:43:30 nymo: which alphabet? 13:43:39 eXhumd: google 13:43:40 english 13:43:41 (coerce "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" 'list) 13:43:45 nymo: CL has built-in support for base 36. 13:44:03 wow, ok... dlowe thanks 13:44:21 pkhuong: base 36? i'll need to research that a bit, thanks 13:44:30 Nyquist/XLISP docs see: http://www.audacity-forum.de/download/edgar/nyquist/nyquist-doc/nyquist.htm 13:44:52 jdz, wow that was helpful 13:45:04 edgar-rft, cool thanks 13:45:09 The Nyquist manual is here: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/music.software.html 13:45:46 so how different is it from Common Lisp? 13:45:56 I mean, can a Lisp programmer understand what's going on? 13:46:18 To reverse-engineer the clicktrack.ny you need knowledge about the Nyquist internals (written in C, not Lisp) 13:46:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754154.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:25 eXhumd: yes. calls to library functions. 13:46:46 exhumd: Lisp programmers, like homosexuals, have superior intelligence. 13:47:11 exhumd: If you can't aspire to one, you can probably aspire to the other. 13:47:47 The Nyquist source code (C and Lisp) is here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/nyquist/files/ 13:48:04 eXhumd: if it's reading lisp you're having trouble with, nearly any lisp reference will work for you 13:48:06 Zhivago: is it composable ? 13:48:16 DrCode_ [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:48:16 I'm asking this not because I'm lazy to read the manual, I was just hoping that someone with Lisp experience could look at the code and give me some lights in 5 mins, while I would need days or weeks to have a basic grasp of the language. 13:48:17 romcgb [romcgb@ip-83-101-43-154.customer.schedom-europe.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:41 exhumd: Well, again, I suggest asking a specific question about one thing that confuses you. 13:49:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:12 eXhumd: I suggest we go to #lispcafe, because this will have not much to do with Common Lisp 13:49:16 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:50:22 -!- DrCode_ is now known as DrCode 13:50:35 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:50:43 Zhivago, I think the part that really interests me happens from lines 121 to 139 13:51:38 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:39 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has left #lisp 13:51:50 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:51:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:16 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD1F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 -!- rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD1F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 13:53:51 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 13:57:17 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:57:32 -!- foom2 is now known as foom 13:58:57 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:55 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:29 eXhumd: lines 121 to 139 are littered with Nyquist DSP functions (like lp, hzosc, etc), that only look like Lisp, but internally are C functions. What is sthe specific question? How Nyquist produces the click sound? 14:01:51 edgar-rft, yes. 14:02:13 that's what I'm trying to achieve 14:02:35 "lp" is a 6db lowpass filter, "hzosc" is a wavetable oscillator 14:04:34 if you give me a few minutes I will try to write a pseudo-code version, but this will not save you from implementing a wavetable oscillator 14:05:08 great! I really appreciate that 14:05:08 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 14:06:07 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:06:25 -!- NickLevine [~chatzilla@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 14:06:30 -!- sellout is now known as Guest65292 14:07:10 -!- Guest65292 is now known as sellout- 14:07:17 NickLevine [~chatzilla@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:08 I thought there was a function that gives (mod, rem) of an integer division in one go, but I cannot find it anymore. Is there? 14:09:42 floor? 14:10:13 hajovonta: argh. yes, thanks. Got confused by reading about ffloor. 14:10:15 clhs truncate 14:10:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 14:10:49 learning the difference between floor, ceiling, round, and truncate is really instructive 14:11:10 floor is for mod, truncate is for rem 14:12:35 dlowe: the floor/ceiling/truncate trinity helps understand how integer divisions by constants can be converted into multiply/shift. 14:13:13 turbopape [29e62c52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.230.44.82] has joined #lisp 14:13:30 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:37 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:01 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:15:41 hi there, 14:16:20 anyone written DSLs for javascript generation ? 14:16:44 minion: tell turbopape about parenscript 14:16:44 parenscript: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/parenscript 14:16:46 turbopape: parenscript is one such thing 14:17:20 minion: tell me about minion 14:17:20 minion: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/minion 14:17:30 did you use it in real world ? 14:17:40 where is that? 14:17:54 you know... America! :D 14:18:27 turbopape: I don't, but I know some do. 14:18:35 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 either cliki.net is down, or my network woes continue 14:19:56 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 14:23:30 ksinkar [~ksinkar@1.23.149.83] has joined #lisp 14:23:34 ckoch786_ [~quassel@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 14:23:41 *maxm* wondering about why word "woes" so often used by Lispers, is it historical or what? 14:24:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:25:00 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:07 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:26:31 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:26:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 14:27:10 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:05 eXhumd: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/137972 14:28:11 Hmm, M-. on asdf-related things seems to jump to useless places for me. 14:28:17 I wonder if I've loaded it in an Improper Way. 14:29:59 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@98.103.82.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:31:31 edgar-rft, wow thanks a lot 14:32:21 eXhumd, I'm still here for a while if you have questions... 14:33:19 ryankara1on [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 14:34:57 -!- ryankara1on is now known as rk[wrkwrkwrk] 14:35:41 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 14:36:35 turbopape: i tried parenscript once, it expanded my lisp loop into a js loop with no problems, which was quite impressive 14:36:43 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has joined #lisp 14:36:56 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:37:52 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:38:03 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:49 Xach: what syms are you trying to M-. on? I think both CCL and SBCL are going to the right places for me on DEFSYSTEM and OOS. 14:39:12 Xach: no, it's a feature now 14:39:15 patrickwonders: asdf:find-system, compatfmt 14:39:33 Xach: because it's wrapped in lots of progns 14:40:21 -!- turbopape [29e62c52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.230.44.82] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:40:41 in the form of with-upgradability 14:43:26 Hmmm looks okay to me for both SBCL and CCL. The version of ASDF that I have with CCL is significantly newer than the SBCL version though. 14:43:53 cl looks so much better and shorter than js.. http://paste.lisp.org/display/137973 14:44:00 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:44:35 you can write js on one line too 14:45:02 pavelpenev [~quassel@95-42-16-247.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:46:11 Xach: i have found that LOADing a defgeneric inside PROGN makes sbcl unhappy 14:46:27 stassats`: if i add newlines to cl code accordingly, code will be thinner then :) 14:46:27 PROGNs in general make sbcl locations unhapy, but this in particular 14:47:47 Xach: compile-file gives better results for defgeneric 14:48:01 ok 14:48:12 but compile-file may or may not work with ASDF 14:48:23 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 14:48:49 in any case, someone should fix this PROGN annoyance 14:53:11 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-cljmjkpmylqcorxp] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:54:24 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 14:56:04 -!- ksinkar [~ksinkar@1.23.149.83] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:57:14 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:10 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:31 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 15:04:12 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops|lunch 15:04:26 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:28 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:46 -!- Triclops|lunch is now known as Triclops256 15:15:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 15:18:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:27 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:15 -!- adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:28 adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:36 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:31 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:57 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-250-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:31 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-250-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:01 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 15:30:37 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 clhs simple-condition 15:30:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_smp_cn.htm 15:31:31 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 sdemarre [~serge@52.80-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:33:01 clhs simple-warning 15:33:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_smp_wa.htm 15:34:23 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:34:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:00 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-247-189.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 15:36:30 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 15:37:51 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 15:38:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.234.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:39:45 -!- sdemarre [~serge@52.80-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:16 -!- tmokros [~tmokros@ip72-196-149-92.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:05 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:40 is Nyquist the go to framework for music making in Lisp? 15:41:55 (read eXhumd and someone else talking about it) 15:42:25 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:42:27 oh edgar-rft was the other one 15:42:45 krishnak` [~krishnak@50.11.87.144] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 Nyquist is only *one* of several possibilities, see http://www.cliki.net/Music 15:45:36 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:45:52 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:04 sdemarre [~serge@52.80-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:46:41 Nyquist is based a mix of custom C-code and XLISP2 (by David Betz), a predecessor of Common Lisp 15:46:55 a predecessor? 15:47:03 *Nyquist is a mix of... 15:47:16 _d3f [~gnu@50.7.242.122] has joined #lisp 15:47:17 yes, it's miuch older 15:47:46 predecessor means that common lisp evolved from xlisp, which it didn't 15:48:11 true, Common Lisp did _not_ evolve from XLISP 15:49:07 XLISP2 is something like a tiny sub-sub-subset of Common Lisp with a SmallTalk-like object system 15:50:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:36 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:40 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:57 -!- sdemarre [~serge@52.80-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:53 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 15:59:41 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:59:47 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:01:27 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:44 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 16:03:08 bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 16:04:16 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:53 nilsi [~nilsi@95.209.82.44.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 16:06:57 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ajnyrlxlwdyzoqlm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:06:57 thanks edgar-rft 16:07:30 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tswlphkdxtbcqiyn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:55 -!- d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kyfgdilwaprkhkaq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:55 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rzulittxabvexcfe] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:19 -!- photex [uid2006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mxcrwwgecfrjvgmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:20 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqvdmphsbindoynf] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:27 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 16:08:41 stassats`: I'm not a native english speaker, but several dictionaries tell me that predecessor means something that has succeeded or replaced by anything else later in time, what does _not_ necessarily implies that the sucessor must have evolved from the predecessor. 16:08:55 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-meaonhhjnipbenin] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:31 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wonavjmwqjwqylxx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:57 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttzexkhnbdqalchj] has joined #lisp 16:12:02 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:08 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:14:50 edgar-rft: but it does imply direct displacement from the top, like the new president succeeding the old one 16:15:03 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 16:16:06 was XLISP ever in a position that was taken by Common Lisp? doubtful 16:18:15 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:21:12 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:16 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:19 Compared to Common Lisp (or its real predecessors MacLisp and InterLisp) XLISP2 is a toy language, written to run on 640kByte DOS computers. XLISP2 never was in a position or intended to compete with MacLisp, InterLisp, or Common Lisp. 16:23:27 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:32 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:22 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:57 not a predecessor, then :3 16:26:16 <|3b|> CL ran on 640k dos computers too :) 16:26:35 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 16:27:05 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.244.243] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:28:12 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:23 Ok, I only wanted to know what's the real meaning of predecessor for native english speakers. Dictionaries do not always tell the full story. :) 16:29:00 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:38 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 16:29:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:44 |3b|: sh*t, I gave away my old DOS machine a few years ago, it still worked... 16:29:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:11 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:55 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:31:04 <|3b|> you could probably run freedos on a modern computer if you really wanted to, not sure if you could find a copy of that lisp (star sapphire or something like that?) though 16:31:29 *|3b|* never actually used it, just read about it and found it interesting someone fit a CL into DOS limits 16:31:49 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has left #lisp 16:32:16 <|3b|> hmm, free download apparently 16:32:22 I could run dosbox, but on a real 4.77MHz DOS machine it's more fun (or not) 16:32:24 doesn't work on dosbox? 16:32:37 *|3b|* has no idea, that wouldn't be any fun though :p 16:33:01 heh 16:33:50 photex [uid2006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgvjkcasysqyntso] has joined #lisp 16:34:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:43 tmokros [~tmokros@ip72-196-149-92.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:05 -!- photex [uid2006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgvjkcasysqyntso] has left #lisp 16:35:31 -!- youlysses-laptop [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:42 <|3b|> looks like it wants a hard drive in addition to 640k, so possibly didn't quite fit 16:36:10 Star Sapphire works under DOSbox 16:38:59 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:50 My DOS machine only had floppy disks. Can you imagine a 4.77MHz/640kB computer swapping memory to floppy disks? (shudder) 16:42:13 lol 16:42:21 yes i can! 16:43:33 did it on a 150MHz pentium in native dos - clock becomes irrelevant :) 16:43:57 that's called hard work! 16:44:01 muhahahahahaha 16:44:23 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-129-249.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:26 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has joined #lisp 16:45:31 ... you guys reminded me of making distribution floppies for database software -_- 16:46:34 AeroNotix [~xeno@abou199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:50:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:52:45 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-007-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:54:10 -!- HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:54:18 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:35 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 16:56:33 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-235-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:24 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:59:15 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:00:15 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.240] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:03:15 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 17:03:36 -!- Guest51570 is now known as abend 17:07:14 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:09:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:07 imu96 [~imran@115.167.95.129] has joined #lisp 17:12:19 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 17:13:12 is tail recursion "only " an optimization trick? I'm not sure why Schemers get so excited about it..i agree it is cool but not sure a beginner would understand or care 17:13:12 theseb, memo from pjb: Have a look at (intersection common-lisp emacs-lisp scheme) http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/intersection-r5rs-common-lisp-emacs-lisp/ 17:13:47 theseb: because if it's guaranteed, it's not "only" an optimisation anymore. 17:13:57 theseb: scheme doesn't have any loop or goto constructs other than tail calls. 17:15:00 pkhuong: why not? 17:15:29 <|3b|> infinite loops aren't inifinite if each iteration uses stack 17:15:36 Bike: so scheme was just trying to be minimal while CL wanted to give people more choices...ok 17:16:28 lexical scoping used to be just an optimisation trick. Dynamic scoping in the interpreter and lexical scoping in compiled code. 17:16:59 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-10.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:01 theseb: that's not a good way to think of it. 17:17:14 For many programs....an absolute beginner can (should?) hopefully just assume he has infinite memory and concentrate on other stuff first 17:17:17 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:53 pkhuong: lexical scoping is the NEXT buzz word schemers keep getting excited about...that was the next one to try to understand really well :) 17:18:12 theseb: http://l1sp.org/cl/1.1.2 has a pretty good outline of the context and goals of CL 17:18:24 pkhuong: it didn't look that complicated which made me wonder why Lisp didn't use that LONG ago 17:18:35 (lexical scoping) 17:18:39 if it was so great 17:18:47 <|3b|> it did? 17:18:52 it's not quite as trivial to implement 17:18:55 theseb: There are amusing flamewars on net.lang.lisp from the 80s about how lexical scoping is the worst thing ever. 17:19:02 haha 17:19:14 impossible to implement well, etc 17:19:25 e.g., for closures if you're not doing any anaysis you have to save the environment with the function 17:19:53 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:19:59 theseb: LONG ago, people didn't see the difference. Dynamic scoping is a bug in the way JMC's metacircular lisp implements the lambda calculus. 17:20:04 chameco [~samuel@63.sub-70-215-4.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:10 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:33 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.201.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:20:34 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 17:21:04 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip-64-134-196-230.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:22 Xach: heh....wow...that's surprising 17:21:41 Xach: people actually *prefer* dynamical scoping somewhere :) 17:22:52 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@70-89-202-126-invergrove-mn.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:58 theseb: see newlisp 17:23:34 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:23:42 jangle: please don't tell me newlispers think lexical scoping is the worst thing evar :) 17:23:51 that would close the loop 17:24:51 -!- imu96 [~imran@115.167.95.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:28 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:25:33 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@70-89-202-126-invergrove-mn.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:18 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:29 theseb: they don't, I honestly don't fully understand the implications of their choice (they do something with namespaces or) but I figured I'd throw it in for discussion 17:29:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-239-139.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:19 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/net.lang.lisp/P7W_1ISJ-sU/GAo6w-0B7oQJ is a fun read 17:35:31 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 17:36:12 "Well written LISP code should be almost completely independent of lexical or dynamic scoping considerations." This is very similar to the attitude we have toward tail call elimination in CL; some optimisations change nature when they're guaranteed. 17:37:16 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:38:12 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-124-108.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:22 Hey guys, having a mind blank here - is there a better way to combine '(a b) and c into '(a b c) than to just call (append '(a b) '(c)) (forcing c into a list)? 17:38:41 the better way is to avoid doing that 17:38:42 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39:01 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 17:39:27 Not sure if my last message went through, is there a better way to add c to the end of this list, '(a b) than to simply put it in a list itself and use append? 17:39:42 given '(a b) and c, I am thinking of using (append '(a b) '(c)) 17:39:44 the better way is to avoid doing that 17:40:10 I know it isn't cons, or that ends up with ((a b) c) - what function am I forgetting 17:40:11 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.234.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:30 append is the answer 17:40:38 but it's better if you don't need to do that 17:41:11 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 17:41:14 Xach: lol...I *love* reading papers on lisp and discussion of lisp...thanks 17:41:55 ahungry: can you reverse all your lists or pick another data structure? 17:42:00 Roger Corman's back from his vacation and is moving forward on releasing Corman CL + IDE as open source. 17:42:54 I have a weird use case where I have x as a list, if x is greater than 5 I want my y to be (append (subseq x 0 2) '(t)), whlie if it not, I want it to be simply (subseq x 0 2) 17:43:24 I was hoping to just have something like (cons (subseq x 0 2) t), but obviously thats not correct 17:43:34 and push doesn't work without it in a var itself (the subseq thing) 17:44:36 I guess I could use cons and nreverse 17:44:37 what's wrong with append? 17:44:41 if you can modify the list, nconc can work 17:44:45 well, no that still messes up my order 17:45:31 stassats`: nothing terribly wrong, was hoping to just use 't' vs '(t) in this case, but I think its the best option 17:45:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.234.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:45:42 thanks guys 17:45:49 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 17:46:23 if you can modify the list and you want to return just the sublist with your own element.. setf+nthcdr can work 17:46:42 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:45 -!- chameco [~samuel@63.sub-70-215-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:18 thanks 17:47:59 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:53:29 Vutral_ [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:23 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:55:24 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:56:02 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:57:09 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lgotyyoosnyfvoov] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 <|3b|> Xach: cool, more free windows lisps is good :) 17:57:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 17:57:44 Lisp of the year 2006!! 18:00:07 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has joined #lisp 18:00:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:16 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:01:17 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:25 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 <|3b|> i think it was the first CL i used, if not for all that long 18:01:51 xrq [~user@unaffiliated/xrq] has joined #lisp 18:02:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:02:26 *|3b|* learned a bunch of CL debugging corman cl :p 18:02:36 -!- Vutral_ [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 18:03:02 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 18:04:00 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:04:40 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:59 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lttheicepfqmdkri] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 matko [~matko@ip82-139-123-169.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:16 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.132.174.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:26 d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwzmgbsjybosrxfi] has joined #lisp 18:05:57 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:09 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-turhdaxitdqdvnaa] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fekortlmtfdeklta] has joined #lisp 18:08:15 -!- nilsi 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cool 18:16:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:55 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:31 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 18:19:31 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:11 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:55 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 18:22:20 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:33 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:19 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:56 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:26:30 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 -!- kushal 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is now known as Triclops256|away 18:50:05 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 18:53:34 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 18:54:03 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 18:54:46 nha [~prefect@koln-5d81651f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:59:51 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:43 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754154.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:03:22 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:17 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:07:28 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-102-115.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:59 LispWorks signals an error when you defun something named by a keyword. I couldn't imagine when that would be useful. But I just did (... :reader :foo ...) instead of (... :reader foo ...) and got an error, which was kind of what I needed at the time. 19:09:42 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:45 -!- _d3f [~gnu@50.7.242.122] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:10:13 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:02 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:12:56 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:13:26 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:13:48 nilsi [~nilsi@90-231-167-54-no213.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:30 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:47 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jagaj] 19:18:15 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:30 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:33 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:21:01 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 19:21:13 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:23:33 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:48 v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:30:07 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:31 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:03 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:52 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:32:20 __main__ [~main@50.240.210.74] has joined #lisp 19:33:28 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:19 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 19:40:49 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:42 asdfasd_ [bade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.192] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HhYE_ddtQ 19:45:08 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:00 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 19:46:04 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:41 asdfasd_: Don't paste context-free youtube links. 19:47:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:48:38 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:34 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:22 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:55:26 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:55:57 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:04:21 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.84] has joined #lisp 20:05:36 -!- lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:06:07 -!- asdfasd_ [bade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.192] has left #lisp 20:08:43 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:06 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: emergency breakout] 20:09:13 -!- hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-74.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 20:09:53 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 20:10:22 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:13 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 20:12:32 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:13:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:04 how to force reloading/recompiling a whole system, e.g. after having added a slot to a defstruct? 20:15:29 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:15:48 I think I found something 20:16:02 dim: :force t? 20:16:23 in asdf yes 20:16:25 (asdf:load-system "tapoueh" :force t) 20:16:32 but it's recompiling the world it seems 20:16:58 I'd better just restart my instance 20:18:38 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 20:19:11 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 20:19:28 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 oh and now I have a macro that's apparently not usable from the compiler, I though defmacro was all you needed to be able to use it, no eval-when required... 20:23:19 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d81651f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:25:31 Missing some eval-when of functions used in this macro (at macroexpansion time)? 20:26:12 ahah 20:26:24 I missed a in-package at the begining of a file 20:27:25 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-102-115.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:58 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 20:28:04 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@90-231-167-54-no213.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:09 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:21 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:45 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:30:42 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 20:33:29 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:41 sdemarre [~serge@52.80-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:34:58 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:35:42 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abov3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754154.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:33 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abou199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:27 turbopape [c501e45b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.197.1.228.91] has joined #lisp 20:41:24 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:43:08 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:43:29 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:49 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 20:43:58 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-098.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:17 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:46:17 _main_ [~main@50.240.210.73] has joined #lisp 20:47:44 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:21 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:49:02 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:17 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:49:22 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 20:50:03 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:52:01 nilsi [~nilsi@95.209.82.44.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:53:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c235.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@52.80-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:54:43 Xach: AFAIK, it's not conforming to reject fbindings on keywords. Moreover, there is "a lot" of legcacy code doing just that (binding macros in particular to keywords). 20:54:57 A warning is ok. 20:55:01 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:55:39 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:26 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:58:21 syamajala [~syamajala@184-202-207-107.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:15 bitonic [~user@net-93-64-178-246.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 21:03:04 -!- bitonic [~user@net-93-64-178-246.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:01 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:08:22 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-235-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:10:22 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-098.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:55 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:12:22 jriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:24 -!- jxriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:25 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:14:52 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 21:15:13 -!- sellout is now known as Guest86295 21:16:08 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:48 -!- jriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:54 -!- Guest86295 is now known as sellout- 21:17:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18:47 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-098.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:06 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192079.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754154.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:21:05 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@184-202-207-107.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:07 -!- tmokros [~tmokros@ip72-196-149-92.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:24:52 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:25:23 tmokros [~tmokros@ip72-196-149-92.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:01 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:27:35 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:54 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:32 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:41 -!- rk[wrkwrkwrk] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:07 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:31:50 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192079.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:32:22 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:32:32 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 21:32:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:32:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-098.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:06 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:35:33 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:35:43 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:31 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:47 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:54 zc00gii [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:37 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 21:41:15 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:43 are there tools to mechanize web browsing for lisp? 21:43:42 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:44:12 drakma? 21:44:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:46:55 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:20 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:24 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:07 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:04 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 Bike: looking at it, not sure if it's what I need 21:50:36 I need to be able to automatically put in information in forms, etc and parse info it returns 21:50:51 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.227.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:02 well, drakma can do the former, for the latter you'll need an html parser 21:51:20 there's cl-mechanize 21:51:35 if by mechanize, you're referring to the perl module of the same name. 21:51:41 r0rschach [~r0rschach@cpe-66-108-114-156.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:57 Fade: is it a binding or clone? 21:52:01 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:52:10 drakmae + closure-html + cxml-stp do the job 21:52:15 it's a common lisp system that takes its inspiration from the perl module. 21:52:24 i used it once, and it worked as advertised. 21:52:47 it just does what stassats suggested, but without you needing to do much of the ancillary setup. 21:52:56 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:10 hm 21:54:18 Fade: will mechanize do what closure-html does? 21:54:20 anyhow, it's in quicklisp. 21:54:45 i haven't looked at the code in a few months, but my recollection is that it uses closure-html and cxml-stp under the covers. 21:55:25 -!- eskatrem [~user@81.60.137.92.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 21:57:11 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:18 anyhow, you could install it and look at it in less time than you've taken to ask me about it. ;) 21:58:11 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:21 alright thanks 21:58:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:00:07 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@95-42-16-247.btc-net.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:01:22 the fallback would be to use drakma, closure-html and cxml-stp to just do it yourself. 22:02:19 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441229.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:02:43 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:45 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:03:27 -!- arrdem [~user@173.226.190.118] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:03:55 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:10 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:04:18 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:37 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 22:05:08 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:30 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05:52 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:06:06 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:24 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:44 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 22:07:52 I think I *finally* figured out what the Y combinator....basically it is mish mash of lambda function gymnastics to implement recursion when the language doesn't support it 22:07:56 right? 22:08:03 is* 22:08:14 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 22:08:22 that's basically it 22:08:32 YEAH! 22:08:34 thanks 22:08:49 I think I finally figured theseb out: he's just a person who disparages whatever he finds difficult to understand. 22:08:54 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:37 the point is theoretical - to demonstrate that recursion (and all the computational goodness that comes with it) is possible with only lambda abstraction 22:10:56 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:10:58 aspect: and also practical, to understand how recursion is represented internally in some compilers. 22:12:23 if you're messing with the guts of a compiler, theory and practice converge :-) 22:13:06 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:22 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:15:55 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:16:12 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16:16 pkhuong: that is interesting...so it may be beneficial to implement recursion w/ Y's....nice 22:16:41 there's a paper on doing that in some scheme implementation, don't remember the title off the top of my head 22:16:57 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:17:45 Bike: presumably you'd implement recursion with a macro that did the search and replaces 22:18:04 what? no 22:18:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:18:48 i'm working my way down the buzzword bingo list.....today I did tail recursion, lexical scoping and Y's.....on another day...closures, continuations and coroutines 22:19:33 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:20 NiceOneBrah [~niceonebr@173.247.206.226] has joined #lisp 22:20:31 gah, I have no clue if cl-mechanize is what I need 22:20:42 I need to be able to do java script stuff too, it seems 22:21:12 zc00gii: i'm familiar with mechanize on other languages....and javascript stuff is problematic yes 22:21:30 I'm looking at the page source that I need to be working with 22:21:35 it looks like fucking witchcraft 22:21:44 html is confusing as all shit 22:21:53 theseb, there's a video around somewhere titled "the 90 minute scheme to C compiler", which I think you'll enjoy if that's your current study list 22:22:11 aspect: nice..thanks! 22:22:32 zc00gii: are you just filling out html forms? 22:22:36 yes 22:22:46 it has loads of java too 22:23:02 zc00gii: you don't need to understand the whole page....just find the few elements you want to "mechanize" and use that..ignore the rest 22:23:03 like