00:01:44 is it possible to optimize it further? http://paste.lisp.org/display/137946 00:03:47 i wrote some fib functions but I didn't benchmark them. mine don't use stack space 00:03:48 Quadrescence, memo from pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137934 00:03:54 b1gb0y: you can make the exponentiation tail-recursive/iterative. 00:04:46 niiiiicee 00:05:03 You can also use sb-gmp:mpz-fac. 00:05:59 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-69-207-59-129.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:09 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 00:09:58 Quadrescence: can u find it? 00:10:25 sure 00:11:01 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:17 https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/6e5c4efba79caa752ccd1388449d1e2b5264a45b/fibonacci.lisp?at=default 00:11:47 b1gb0y, ^ 00:11:53 thanks 00:13:55 fib-pow2 and fib-rec-pow2 are special ways to compute fib(2^k), the former much faster 00:15:33 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:16:01 -!- CrazyEddy [~chylific@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:25:13 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-69-207-59-129.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:25:35 -!- mutila [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:55 mutila [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:09 mutila_ [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:10 -!- mutila_ [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:26:30 -!- mutila [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:51 mutila [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:54 -!- mutila [~mutila@c-24-5-148-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:28:56 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:17 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:36:57 CrazyEddy [~antired@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:37:24 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:42:12 chameco [~samuel@63.sub-70-215-4.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:21 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:46:05 <|3b|> does cffi not default to 0 for first value in a defcenum? 00:47:48 <|3b|> hmm, docs say it should, wonder if i broke my copy at some point or something 00:48:45 <|3b|> ah, missed some parens, that would explain it 00:49:55 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:15 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-211-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:31 -!- fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:58 fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:33 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-205-31.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:05:48 Phonatacid [~Phonataci@AToulouse-552-1-10-80.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:06:15 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:09:31 hm. 01:10:29 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 01:12:03 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 01:16:04 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:16:57 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-204-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:23:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:26:33 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:26 -!- b1gb0y [~tYbWQh@59.49.30.235] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:31:38 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:58 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:34:00 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 01:37:24 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 01:42:17 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B0B6C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:43:33 setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 01:44:39 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:10 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5B2B3429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:45:16 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@p5B2B3429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:57 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:47:03 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Client Quit] 01:47:52 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 01:47:52 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:48:58 where does hyperspec get it's documentation from. When I Alt-, in slime to find the definition for a lisp function, the documentation looks nothing like what is in the hyperspec. Is that hyperspec generated from somewhere else? 01:49:10 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B0B6C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:41 my guess is that it is privately owned documentation by lispworks??? 01:50:17 is there an open source alternative spec for defining how lisp documentation should look? 01:50:49 the hyperspec is privately owned documentation by lispworks 01:50:53 fenton: the hyperspec is an hypertext version of the ANSI spec. 01:51:03 the documentation you get from Alt-, is from the docstrings of the implementation 01:52:45 ok...makes sense... 01:53:31 so do people ever try to document their own code in a format specified by hyperspec? 01:54:22 or is there a processor out there that parses 'hyperspec' into html? 01:55:31 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:52 fenton: hyperspec is generated from TeX source (and then edited some) that was used to print the physical ANSI CL standard 01:59:12 it's not generated from source, it's a modified version of official standard 01:59:33 (basically, the specification of language in HTML form) 01:59:45 oh ok... i c... 02:00:02 there's also "docstrings", which are defined in standard for including documentation for a symbol 02:00:17 clhs docstrings 02:00:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for docstrings. 02:00:19 clhs docstring 02:00:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for docstring. 02:00:22 hmmm 02:00:33 i think it's only in the glossary 02:00:46 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_d.htm#documentation_string 02:00:47 p_l: okay i'll see if i can find more info on docstring formts. 02:01:17 fenton: not much, really - it's simple string without any standardized format inside, and unlike javadoc it doesn't span more than that 02:01:30 *more than just a string in front of the function 02:01:34 maybe anything more than a string is overkill? 02:01:35 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 02:01:54 fenton: well, docstrings are usually for quick reference (or at least that's how I use them) 02:02:23 there are documentation generators that can produce a more complex documentation from comments (but that's not standardized) 02:02:24 well, some (not all) people also use them for generating documentation and stuff. 02:02:26 sure...make sense... 02:02:32 like weitz's hugeass docstrings. 02:02:51 Bike: but the doc strings are no more formatted than a simple string? 02:03:08 weitz's aren't, but some other people's are 02:03:18 to make it possible to enerate tex from them and such, kinda like javadoc 02:03:19 unfortunately nothing generates stuff that can be linked with current "hyperspec" code for SLIME (but it can be done - hyperspec.el simply contains a list of links) 02:03:37 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has joined #lisp 02:04:28 as a newbie, i lean on documentation sometimes when i don't understand the implementation of a function... 02:04:47 well if you're looking at the source there's comments. 02:05:19 fenton: M-. (aka Alt-.) is great for going down the rabbit hole when learning 02:05:26 Bike: yeah.... 02:05:31 it jumps to definition of the symbol at point 02:06:04 p_l: agreed...A-. is great 02:06:47 thanks guys appreciate the hand holding! now girlfriend is dragging me out to a baby expo -- woohoo! 02:07:21 what's baby expo ? 02:07:39 zRecursive: ... I suspect it's a horror of a trade show full of baby products 02:07:50 RIP, fenton 02:07:52 oh 02:08:33 zRecursive: yup...i'm in bangkok, and they sell a bunch of baby stuff...we're expecting our first in a few weeks... 02:09:02 congratulation 02:09:35 zRecursive: thanks! :) 02:09:45 ttyl 02:12:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:13:34 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 02:13:35 p_l, haha (at "RIP") 02:15:24 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:09 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:50 Greetings! 02:23:15 azathoth99 [~g@cpe-75-83-12-120.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:12 hello 02:29:58 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 02:30:19 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 02:31:43 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:19 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 02:39:08 -!- azathoth99 [~g@cpe-75-83-12-120.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:40:25 Hi, is there something in Quicklisp to interface to git? 02:40:42 for now i just need something really simple: query what branch is currently checkout out in a certain working directory 02:41:17 I can do the same thing with (uiop:with-current-directory ("some-dir/") (uiop:run-program (list "git" "branch") :output :string) 02:41:17 gendl: run-program? 02:41:31 but then still have to do a bit of parsing 02:41:56 ok i'll just stick with uiop:run-program. thanks. 02:41:59 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:40 (string-trim (list #\newline) (uiop:with-current-directory ("~/gendl/") (uiop:run-program (list "git" "rev-parse" "--abbrev-ref" "HEAD") :output :string))) 02:44:48 gives exactly the string that I need 02:44:52 thanks. 02:45:16 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@220.166.237.57] has left #lisp 02:49:47 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:41 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:54 -!- devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:01:42 devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:15 -!- irus [~irus@112.145.76.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:24 -!- chameco [~samuel@63.sub-70-215-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:16:14 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 03:16:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:47 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:04 irus [~irus@112.145.76.2] has joined #lisp 03:24:09 -!- jfe [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 03:31:13 -!- irus [~irus@112.145.76.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:54 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.133.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:42:03 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 03:48:34 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:a8df:5a3:fbb6:d224] has joined #lisp 03:54:25 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:55:55 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 04:01:20 -!- fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:04:21 -!- Triclops256|away [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:05:27 Triclops256 [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has joined #lisp 04:10:48 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:30 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:37 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 04:25:35 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:28:34 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 04:35:34 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:44:17 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:31 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:50:52 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 04:54:33 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:54:43 pnpuff [~pgas@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:02:04 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:55 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:a8df:5a3:fbb6:d224] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:06:25 zRecursive [~czsq888@220.166.237.57] has joined #lisp 05:07:18 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.188.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:02 stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.183.34] has joined #lisp 05:11:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:15 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:14:23 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@98.Red-79-156-231.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:16:31 stardiviner_ [~quassel@218.74.183.34] has joined #lisp 05:22:28 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:22:38 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.183.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:42 -!- pnpuff [~pgas@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: http://titanium.cs.berkeley.edu/] 05:22:43 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@218.74.183.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:51 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 05:24:14 pnpuff [~k@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:25:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:26:21 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:21 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:28:30 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-243-149.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:28:41 -!- pnpuff [~k@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 05:29:35 pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:31:04 -!- pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:31:15 pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:31:24 -!- pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:31:28 pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:32:34 -!- pnpuff is now known as pnpuFF 05:33:22 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:39 nmeum_ [~nmeum@p20030058A6211301A0301B5184A7ECBA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:33:39 -!- nmeum_ [~nmeum@p20030058A6211301A0301B5184A7ECBA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:35:20 -!- pnpuFF [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:35:42 pnpuFF [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:35:46 -!- pnpuFF [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:35:49 pnpuFF [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:38:36 -!- pnpuFF [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 05:42:24 -!- nmeum [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:42:31 nmeum [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has joined #lisp 05:43:49 pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:45:28 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has joined #lisp 05:47:28 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:42 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 05:48:52 -!- pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:49:01 pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:49:39 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 05:49:59 -!- pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:51:07 pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:52:57 -!- pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:53:08 pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:56:48 -!- pnpuff [~JackALynn@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 05:56:53 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:59:01 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:09 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:03:58 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:48 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:11:11 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:17:47 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 06:19:55 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:26:41 sdemarre [~serge@39.73-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:29:28 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:31:42 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 06:33:56 syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:56 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:33:56 syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 06:34:36 nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:20 Adeon_ [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 06:35:23 veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:26 AntiSpamMeta_ [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 06:35:27 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Killed (hobana.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 06:35:27 -!- AntiSpamMeta_ is now known as AntiSpamMeta 06:35:32 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:35 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 06:35:47 -!- veer is now known as Guest35681 06:36:01 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:36:02 -!- Guest35681 is now known as _veer 06:36:08 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:36:09 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 06:37:08 dioxirane [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 06:37:22 cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 06:37:22 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:30 -!- dioxirane [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has left #lisp 06:37:49 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:50 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:38:19 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:20 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:38:25 runningsm [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:34 adnap_ [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:36 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:55 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:39:36 trigen [~MSX@cppse.nl] has joined #lisp 06:40:21 -!- sdemarre [~serge@39.73-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:40:53 stokachu_ [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has joined #lisp 06:41:44 november [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 06:41:48 s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:12 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:26 away [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 06:42:33 ivan\_ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 06:42:36 -!- away is now known as Guest81907 06:42:41 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:52 fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 06:42:57 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:43:09 Rich_Morin_ [~rdm@cfcl.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:18 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:43:45 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- nug700 [u174125@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- zz_runningskull [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:45 -!- Guest50827 [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- Patzy_ [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- Guest7424 [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- trigen- [~MSX@cppse.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- Rich_Morin [~rdm@cfcl.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:46 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:47 -!- Adeon [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:47 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:43:47 -!- stokachu_ is now known as stokachu 06:43:47 -!- tycho is now known as tychoish 06:43:47 -!- Rich_Morin_ is now known as Rich_Morin 06:43:52 -!- Guest81907 is now known as strobegen 06:43:59 -!- Phonatacid [~Phonataci@AToulouse-552-1-10-80.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Phonatacid] 06:44:30 -!- november is now known as n0vember 06:44:46 -!- ivan\_ is now known as ivan\ 06:45:02 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 06:45:37 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:45:42 GuestC6248 [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 06:45:57 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29827F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:46:57 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:48 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:37 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:55 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@220.166.237.57] has left #lisp 06:50:02 scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 06:50:20 Guest7424 [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 06:50:36 -!- GuestC6248 [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has left #lisp 06:50:44 GuestC6248 [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 06:50:48 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:51:14 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:51:37 zickzackv [~faot@g225061153.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:52:51 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 06:54:02 -!- GuestC6248 is now known as dioxirane 06:54:16 sdemarre [~serge@39.73-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:57:09 jaccarmac [~jaccarmac@108-236-76-245.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:17 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 06:58:11 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 06:58:17 -!- jaccarmac [~jaccarmac@108-236-76-245.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:59:06 -!- dioxirane [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [] 07:00:54 dioxirane [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 07:01:12 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 07:02:37 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Bed time...? o/] 07:03:52 -!- dioxirane [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:38 dioxirane [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 07:06:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:07:08 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:08:33 -!- sdemarre [~serge@39.73-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:08:44 bitonic` [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 07:09:57 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:11:53 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:28 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:52 rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-051.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:53 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-051.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:17:53 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 07:22:10 -!- dioxirane [~K@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: One Boy. Joanie Sommers] 07:24:17 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:33:11 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:57 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:36:10 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 07:42:40 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b87.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:04 reggy [~reg@178.163.89.83] has joined #lisp 07:58:14 What is the difference between (format t "~a~%" 'hello) and (format t "~a~%" "hello") ? 07:58:37 nmeum: 'hello is a symbol, "hello" is a string 07:58:55 nmeum: in most lisps, the first will print HELLO, the second will print hello by default 07:59:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:21 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:47 does it matter wether I pass a symbol or a string to a function call? For instance can I use (make-array 5 :element-type "character") instead of (make-array 5 :element-type 'character)? 08:01:16 no, you can't do that, because "character" isn't a type specifier. 08:02:23 In the format case, you are using the name of the symbol, which is a string. 08:04:12 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 08:05:04 banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.133.24] has joined #lisp 08:05:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:28 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:08:37 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225061153.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:09 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 08:13:14 -!- adnap_ is now known as adnap 08:18:18 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 08:18:39 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:19:21 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:19:27 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:14 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002f64.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:30 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 08:23:57 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 08:23:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:57 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:27:37 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 08:27:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-87-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:59 abeaumont [~abeaumont@218.Red-83-61-66.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:09 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:30:30 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:30:52 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@218.Red-83-61-66.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:32:02 abeaumont [~abeaumont@218.Red-83-61-66.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:23 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:40:50 jxriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:47:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:49:26 ffilozov [~user@124.202.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:49:34 malbertife [~malbertif@95.236.11.180] has joined #lisp 08:50:06 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:17 What's the difference between &body and &rest? 08:52:56 hitecnologys: there is no functionali difference. they both exist to give editors a clue how to format uses of them. 08:57:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29827F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:01:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:21 pnpuff [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:11:02 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:14:22 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@95.236.11.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:14:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:16:20 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@24.118.142.0] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:17:22 -!- ffilozov [~user@124.202.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:15 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 09:30:13 fengsheng [~user@101.229.72.248] has joined #lisp 09:34:14 pnpuff_ [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:37:00 -!- fengsheng [~user@101.229.72.248] has left #lisp 09:37:11 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:43 -!- pnpuff [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:52 -!- lkjh [~lkjh@ool-182c2429.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:39:57 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 09:40:05 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 09:40:18 zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.13.32] has joined #lisp 09:40:44 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B3429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:44:46 -!- pnpuff_ [~K@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 09:59:14 codeburg [~folker@85.183.24.157] has joined #lisp 10:00:05 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.201.71.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02:48 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.193.125.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 10:03:45 -!- devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:04:22 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.227.126] has joined #lisp 10:07:23 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:07:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:09:01 devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:50 H4ns: ok, thanks. 10:13:22 H4ns: sorry for 2 hours dealy, I had some computer troubles. 10:15:29 -!- karswell [~user@87.114.92.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:01 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 10:37:01 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 10:41:08 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:50:07 SkyNet [~SkyNet@AToulouse-651-1-101-55.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:50:13 -!- SkyNet is now known as Guest73785 10:50:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has joined #lisp 10:50:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has quit [Changing host] 10:50:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:55:50 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:56:10 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 10:56:12 eskatrem [~user@81.60.137.92.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:06 hey, noob question: in common lisp, is there a way to get some documentation of a function from the repl? 10:57:13 clhs documentation 10:57:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 10:57:23 like (doc myFunction) in clojure 10:58:43 pkhuong_, do you recommend defglobal for junk that won't be bound to, stuff whose symbol-value won't change, and stuff whose type wont change? 10:59:12 -!- Guest14085 is now known as daem0n 10:59:13 -!- daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has quit [Changing host] 10:59:13 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 10:59:34 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 11:00:07 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.13.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:20 eskatrem: you can use describe 11:00:27 Quadrescence: yes. some l-t-v hack if it really *really* important. 11:00:38 PuercoPop: he could also use documentation. 11:01:26 describe works 11:01:53 pkhuong, global statically typed machine-sized-integer arrays 11:02:54 Quadrescence: like I said. yes. and some l-t-v hack if it's really shows up on your profile. 11:03:38 But, if the global access is an issue, hoisting it out of inner loops will likely be a better approach. 11:04:25 -!- Adeon_ is now known as Adeon 11:04:33 pkhuong: *nods* just learned about it. Is describe commonly used for 'live objects'? 11:05:01 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:12 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:30 i'm very grateful i can translate old Fortran code into lisp with a fine degree of ease, but you don't exactly feel great about the code when you finally get it to work :( 11:09:00 the first step is to get something working, the second is to rewrite the structure completely ;) 11:12:35 H4ns: format ~A of a symbol is conforming. In ALL conforming implementations, it will print exactly the same thing. Depending on the various *print-* variables. 11:17:13 AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:26:03 -!- Guest73785 [~SkyNet@AToulouse-651-1-101-55.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:38 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:33:58 -!- jxriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:34:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:07 irus [~irus@112.145.76.2] has joined #lisp 11:46:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.19.109] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 11:48:24 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:41 nmeum: some functions take string designators. (deftype string-designator () `(or string symbol character)) Some functions take only symbols, some functions take only strings, some functions take only characters. The function CL:STRING converts a string-designator into a string. 11:49:38 nmeum: the notion of designator is general and quite practical. There are pathname designators, package designators, etc. You can define your own types of designators for your application. 11:50:09 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:34 That's because most package operators take package designators, that you can pass them package objects, string, symbols (including keywords or uninterned symbols) or characters to designate packages. 11:51:19 Quadrescence: you mean using f2cl? 11:51:39 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:43 pjb, no, I mean I am grateful for the features CL provides in order to write sloppy imperative code. 11:53:01 Quadrescence: ok. But then if you have to load FORTRAN code into lisp, mind the tools like f2cl ;-) 11:53:41 yes of course 11:54:09 lisp is one of the lowest level programming languages. It's also one of the highest level. It's full of paradoxes. The point is that it maximizes effects over means. 11:56:43 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.133.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:59:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-13-63.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:18 pjb, would the LET in the following code look out of place to you: (let ((x x))  (setf x foo) ) 11:59:34 or would you prefer a temp var + setf x tmp at the end? 12:00:23 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:01:20 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:24 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-243-149.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:04:56 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-225-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:51 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 12:07:57 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:26 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08:39 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:30 -!- irus [~irus@112.145.76.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:36 davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:16:02 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 12:17:46 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:20:29 eduardoboucas [~eduardobo@141.0.35.130] has joined #lisp 12:23:27 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 12:28:34 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002f64.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:29:44 hi everyone! i'm working on a audio processing application and, to implement a specific feature, i'm trying to reverse engineer a piece of Nyquist programming code (which I've read is based on Lisp) 12:30:00 so i was wondering if anyone could take a look (it's only about 12 lines of code) 12:30:11 eduardoboucas: paste.lisp.org 12:30:13 and help me translate it into a C-ish language 12:31:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137949 12:32:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:32:09 eduardoboucas: that can't be translated to something like c without knowing the functions and data types that nyquist provides. 12:33:08 hmm i see 12:33:22 i figured it would be a long shot 12:33:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:47 well, thanks anyway :) 12:35:27 ffilozov [~user@119.red-80-28-107.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:37 -!- Guest86727 [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 12:37:55 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 12:38:03 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-225-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:39:18 stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.183.34] has joined #lisp 12:42:24 billstclair [~billstcla@68.237.143.207] has joined #lisp 12:42:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@68.237.143.207] has quit [Changing host] 12:42:24 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:42:45 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:43:03 <|3b|> you could translate it to something 'like' c (only thing missing is return type of lp), but it wouldn't be any more meaningful or understandable without knowing the functions 12:44:03 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:44:22 AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:45:16 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:02 eduardoboucas: Nyquist and XLISP both are implemented in C. Why don't you just look at the C source code? 12:47:48 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 12:51:03 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:23 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:51:47 -!- schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:58:06 -!- codeburg [~folker@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:58:40 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:17 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:03:17 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 13:10:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:13:21 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 13:17:55 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-63-254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:22:22 -!- ffilozov [~user@119.red-80-28-107.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:24:06 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:26:50 nymo [~user@c-76-17-216-101.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:05 hello all 13:27:14 i'm getting an error with this line of code: 13:27:15 (concatenate 'string #((code-char 97) #\b)) 13:28:11 (code-char 97) doesn't seem to resolve before concatenate acts upon its args and logs that it's not a CHARACTER 13:29:20 (concatenate 'string (vector (code-char 97) #\b)) 13:29:55 ah, thank you, stassats 13:31:53 actually, same error except the added vector call 13:31:57 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 13:32:12 no 13:36:58 BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 Have you checked the type of (code-char 97) separately? 13:40:41 I can imagine systems where that is the case, but I can't imagine a case where stassats's suggestion produces the error you report. 13:42:06 Unless that's not CL:VECTOR and you've put in a macro or something instead. 13:42:42 <|3b|> or quoted it 13:43:04 <|3b|> or left the # there 13:43:22 Well, then it wouldn't be stassats's suggestion -- but a mangled attempt sounds reasonable. 13:43:48 <|3b|> not like we ever saw an actual error though, so could be corrupted system or something 13:44:50 one sec on the error and exact entered code 13:45:38 (concatenate 'string #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b)) 13:45:39 The value (VECTOR (CODE-CHAR 97)) is not of type CHARACTER. 13:45:39 [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR] 13:46:27 let me check what the type of that latter is 13:46:44 <|3b|> might also try rereading stassats suggestion more closely 13:46:50 (concatenate 'string (vector (code-char 97) #\b)) 13:47:05 CL-USER> (type-of (vector (code-char 97))) 13:47:05 (SIMPLE-VECTOR 1) 13:47:05 CL-USER> (type-of (code-char 97)) 13:47:05 STANDARD-CHAR 13:47:11 don't paste here 13:47:16 ah 13:47:28 so you got a # and a () too much 13:47:38 i see that you're able to copy and paste, but not my snippet 13:48:22 ohhh... i see now what i thought was a paren typo 13:51:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:53:35 read a bit about http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/collections.html on Vectors and this line is relevant: "You can use the #(...) syntax [...] but as the effects of modifying literal objects aren't defined, you should always use VECTOR [...]" although was never sure what the author meant by "modifying literal" ... anyways, thanks to all 13:53:49 and i'll try to use pastebin in the future 13:54:11 that's not a good suggestion 13:54:28 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:35 it's better than none 13:54:53 of course, because you left the context out 13:55:34 it is "you should always use VECTOR or the more general function MAKE-ARRAY to create vectors you plan to modify." 13:55:47 which has a very different meaning from what you pasted 13:59:06 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-225-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:24 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:01:15 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:01:38 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:07 well maybe idk.. .i'm starting learning this stuff anyways, and i didn't know (still don't know) that i am modifying that vector in the first place, instead i think i'm just building a vector and passing it to concatenate 14:06:53 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 14:12:24 nymo: in (concatenate 'string #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b)) the vector contains one element of type list. 14:12:49 Oops, two elements, the first is of type list, the second of type character. 14:12:57 (length #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b)) => 2 14:13:05 (aref #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b) 0) => (vector (code-char 97)) 14:13:10 (aref #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b) 1) 14:13:14 (aref #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b) 1) => #\b 14:13:27 (type-of (aref #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b) 0)) => cons 14:13:33 (type-of (aref #((vector (code-char 97)) #\b) 1)) => standard-char 14:13:35 see? 14:14:18 madrik [~user@122.168.214.190] has joined #lisp 14:15:01 pjb: yea, that was a mistake on my part when i read stassats' answer, my first message contains what i was originally working with 14:15:20 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:15:51 <|3b|> "literal" in this case means an actual object appearing in the source 14:16:30 <|3b|> CL is defined in terms of lisp objects, rather than a sequence of characters, so by 'source' in that case i mean the lisp objects 14:16:39 fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 And the point here is not modification of literal, it's that what you literally wrote in that expression is not a character, starting with "#\", but a list, starting with "(". 14:17:50 When you read #(1 2), you get a vector that's built at read time. When you evaluate this vector, you get itself. 14:18:09 When you read (vector 1 2), you get a list of 3 elements that's built at read time. When you evaluate this list, you get a vector of 2 elements built at run-time. 14:18:10 so i can't build a vector containing expressions 14:18:20 Sure. With vector or make-array. 14:18:33 Or, at read-time with the #. reader macro. 14:18:34 right 14:18:50 But objects built at read-time are "literals". 14:19:13 Meaning the compiler can optimize them (coalesce them, put them in readonly memory, etc). 14:20:30 what is the difference between emacs lisp and common lisp? 14:20:46 i think i get, thanks for the clarification pjb, i'm sure i'll run into this again 14:20:56 <|3b|> they are different languages, there is no 'the' difference 14:21:04 Teratogen: Have a look at (intersection common-lisp emacs-lisp scheme) http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/intersection-r5rs-common-lisp-emacs-lisp/ 14:21:18 ok thanks 14:22:24 <|3b|> they share common ancestors, so lots of things are similar between them, but a lot is different as well 14:23:01 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:52 Teratogen: nowadays, the remaining differences are: emacs lacks packages, reader macros, full CLOS implementation, pathnames, numbers (bignums, ratio, complexes), characters (for a text editor!), arrays (it only has vectors!), files (it only provides access to file contents thru a high level API), various implementations including compilers generating efficient code, (FFI, MOP, gray streams and a few other non-standardized CL extensions) 14:24:12 Teratogen: but what it has is a good library to build textual user interfaces. 14:24:49 "good" 14:25:09 <|3b|> also lots of the common functions work differently, like % vs ~ in format 14:28:56 indeed, Emacs Lisp doesn't have as much formatting options... keeping it simple i guess 14:30:34 also CHARACTER syntax is prefixed with ?, and CL uses #\ 14:31:06 there's no characters in elisp 14:31:46 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-225-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:32:29 In emacs ? is a syntax to read integers. 14:33:37 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:58 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:34:04 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:17 BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:34:40 -!- skalawag [user@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3ad2] has left #lisp 14:39:56 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:54 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:28 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 -!- nymo [~user@c-76-17-216-101.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:55:21 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:02:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:06:19 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 15:07:42 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:08:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:08:45 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:09:21 -!- krrrcks_ [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:41 krrrcks_ [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:28 -!- ayeaye92 [~user@dsl-173-206-68-24.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:02 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:06 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 15:18:05 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:06 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:23:21 sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 15:26:24 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E3C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:26:30 Technically not lisp, but when slime provides an "undefined variable" warning, is there any way to automatically find the location? 15:27:59 M-n/M-p walks through notes and warnings. 15:28:25 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:31:09 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jagaj] 15:31:49 ASau [~user@p5797E3C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:34:12 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:20 ante__ [~cymew@fw01.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 15:35:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:35:58 -!- ante_ [~cymew@90-230-84-97-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:35 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:23 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-87-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:42 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:06 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:46:59 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 15:47:34 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 15:57:39 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:6487:60d1:caee:db71] has joined #lisp 16:01:47 -!- nightshade427_ [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:13 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:03:35 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:15 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E3C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:16:50 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:59 davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:41 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:26 ASau [~user@p5797E3C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:21:03 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 16:26:13 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:29:23 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B3429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:33 davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:15 johnzorn [~jz@bas11-montreal28-1176353252.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:42 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:39:34 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:15 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 16:42:55 -!- devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:04 codeburg [~folker@85.183.24.157] has joined #lisp 16:45:41 devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:54:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has joined #lisp 16:54:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.72] has quit [Changing host] 16:54:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:01:07 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:48 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 17:07:50 ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:14 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:56 pnpuff [~k@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:11:57 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 17:17:25 -!- johnzorn [~jz@bas11-montreal28-1176353252.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18:51 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:05 -!- pnpuff [~k@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:19:29 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:02 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:17 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:01 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:24 ayeaye92 [~user@dsl-173-206-68-24.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 17:26:28 Hey everyone 17:26:28 ayeaye92, memo from pjb: pnpuff: Otherwise, packages are named by strings, and package operators usually take _package_ _designators_, which are packages or _string_ _designators_ for a package name or nickname. 17:33:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 Karl_dscc [~localhost@erft-5d80f0de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:24 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:32 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:11 Why isn't something akin the with-gensyms part of CL? 17:39:24 <|3b|> did asdf lose the "reinitialize registry and try again" restart somewhere before 3.0.2? 17:39:49 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:53 <|3b|> ayeaye92: because they only had so much time to work on the spec? 17:40:03 <|3b|> and because nobody has updated the spec since 17:40:05 because it's not needed 17:40:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:12 ayeaye92: because a language cannot include all the programs that will ever be written. 17:40:20 you can easily write your own, or use gensym directly 17:40:27 i prefer the latter 17:40:48 *|3b|* thinks those arguments aren't very good, since you can trivially write a lot of things that are in cl 17:41:19 <|3b|> preferring some other way of doing same thing is a better argument though :) 17:41:56 *|3b|* would use with-gensyms more if it were in spec, but most of the time, (gensym) is fine 17:42:10 What about once-only? 17:44:30 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 17:44:59 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:48:15 pjb: I understand that, but if it's something that pretty much every project that uses macro will write, then why not have it in CL? It appears that lispworks has a with-unique-names macro which accomplishes the same thing. It seems somewhat redundant for every single person to hand roll something that is really commonly used 17:48:42 <|3b|> ayeaye92: that's why we have things like alexandria 17:49:01 <|3b|> if i use it at all, i get it from there 17:49:15 i find manual gensym to be clearer because of the subtly different offerings from libraries 17:50:22 <|3b|> either way, we can't change CL, so worrying about whether some specific function/macro is there or not won't help much 17:50:50 |3b|: Fair enough, but then couldn't the same argument be made for every other with-xyz that exists in CL? Why does it specify with-slots if that could be in a library as well? 17:51:08 <|3b|> because that's what the standardization committee decided 17:51:08 And I'm not worrying about it, I was just wondering why some things made the cut and some didn't 17:51:10 but we can say "this CL is made by bloody amateurs" and stop using it 17:51:34 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 17:51:55 <|3b|> some are probably due to what the lisps did that they were trying to make a 'common' lisp from 17:51:58 ayeaye92: was there a cut? 17:52:06 -!- ski [~md9slj@ce-pc46.ce.chalmers.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:52:06 was somebody suggesting it and it was rejected? 17:53:12 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:56:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:36 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:28 Figure of speech. Just from what I've noticed that lots of projects define it, a lot of the time not using alexandria probably to avoid bringing in more dependencies. It's just strange that to do something in a standard way, you have to use a library and not use "the standard" for the language :/ 17:57:41 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:58:03 you don't have to use anything 17:58:08 <|3b|> using alexandria is just as 'standard' as using with-gensyms 17:58:31 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:46 i find (let ((var (gensym "NAME"))) ...) to be just as clear as with-gensyms 17:59:02 *|3b|* does too 17:59:05 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:59:37 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:49 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:32 Alright, fair enough 18:04:59 <|3b|> also, remember the spec was made in late 80s, so different idioms might have been popular then 18:07:11 Why hasn't it been updated since then? 18:07:17 *patrickwonders* prefers with-gensyms if there are three or more gensym calls in the same LET 18:07:29 Languages evolve over time usually, CL hasn't seem to 18:07:37 ayeaye92: it was created perfect 18:08:04 also, this discussion is getting into the boring beaten-to-death territory 18:08:10 <|3b|> not enough people with the money and motivation to update it 18:08:33 nha [~prefect@koln-5d81ad5b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:44 <|3b|> so we evolve it by writing libraries instead 18:08:56 <|3b|> or adding extensions to implementations 18:09:21 <|3b|> or both, as in the case of things like threading and networking 18:10:09 stassats: Sorry, I'm new so I wasn't sure if this horse was already dead :P 18:10:29 <|3b|> given the age of the spec, most are :p 18:11:16 Haha, is there any other topics not worth brining up? For future reference haha 18:11:30 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-69-207-59-129.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:16 GPL vs MIT/BSD/PD 18:13:31 "is scheme a lisp?" 18:16:14 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 18:16:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:16:39 I gave up on License wars shortly after I learned what they are :P 18:17:09 license discussions usually end up being pjb vs others 18:18:39 \me agrees with patrickwonders w.r.t. the number of gensym calls 18:18:49 lol /me 18:20:07 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:32 And I'm not even going to ask what side pjb is on :P 18:21:47 the dark one 18:23:10 That was my assumption 18:23:33 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 18:23:38 KarlDscc [~localhost@erft-5d80c880.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:41 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:25:57 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@erft-5d80f0de.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:02 i have an issue; i am princing to a stream. (princ '(defpackage :robit (:use :common-lisp :irc) (:export boot)) stream) 18:27:19 when i read stream, all of the : are gone 18:27:28 you need to use prin1 18:27:34 oh thank you very much 18:27:47 i started thinking to myself that there was probably a different prin* to use 18:27:49 or WRITE with WITH-IO-STANDARD-SYNTAX 18:27:54 okay. 18:28:01 how does lisp see : 18:28:10 and what is the intended purpose of use 18:28:22 it's a shorthand for keyword:: 18:28:34 i use them where i have noticed appropriate, but i don't fully understand what it is *for* 18:28:44 okay i will search keyword:: 18:28:50 to share symbols between pacakges 18:28:50 thank you stassats ! 18:28:56 you won't find anything 18:29:00 clhs keyword 18:29:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_kwd.htm 18:29:09 thanks 18:29:31 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 i have also see it used when defining objects in CLOS 18:29:50 what is the meaning in objects for : 18:30:00 no, that doesn't happen 18:30:07 you're confusing something 18:30:36 okay 18:31:49 my confusion comes from (defclass ping () ((date :accessor ping-date :initarg :date))) 18:31:58 those are keywords. 18:32:57 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Myk267] 18:35:05 ASau` [~user@p5797E304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:44 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E3C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:31 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:41:04 ryankarason: a keyword is a self-evaluating symbol in package KEYWORDS. Deciphering: a symbol that holds as value its own name (sortof), and lives in package KEYWORDS. Some CL implementations even make package KEYWORDS to have an empty string as nickname, so :keyword reads as "exported symbol 'keyword in package named with empty string" 18:41:47 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 18:45:32 oh, i see. thanks p_l 18:46:43 p_l: the package is KEYWORD in reality 18:46:50 ... right 18:46:54 my bad 18:52:06 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:55:10 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:56:08 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:59:05 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-69-207-59-129.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:04:05 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@erft-5d80c880.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:07:42 ayeaye92: there are even people who'd want a tree shaker, to _remove_ from a standard implementation all the things they don't use! 19:10:58 stassats: actually, symbols _interned_ into KEYWORD are automatically exported from KEYWORD, so :X is equivalent to KEYWORD:X too ;-) 19:11:12 pjb: keyword:x doesn't intern 19:11:22 Yes it does. 19:11:48 do you want me to say "no, it doesn't?"? 19:11:53 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: /.\/.\] 19:13:31 clhs 2.3.5 19:13:31 Valid Patterns for Tokens: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_ce.htm 19:13:56 even your beloved clisp won't accept keyword:x 19:19:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:47 ok, point 2 and 3 tend to say that p:s doesn't intern. Half the implementations do it for keyword thought. 19:21:09 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-237-26.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:21:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:22:24 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106001c10341a19.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:28:01 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441229.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:54 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441229.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:39:39 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:42:49 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.214.190] has left #lisp 19:44:27 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:44 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:52:10 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:52:21 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:41 tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 (prin1 '(cl:quickload "cl-irc") stream) doesn't seem to work :/ 19:55:24 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.193.125.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:46 <|3b|> what do you expect it to do? 19:56:07 <|3b|> and why do you expect there to be a symbol named quickload in CL? 19:56:10 write (cl:quickload "cl-irc) to stream 19:56:38 i am writing a lisp program that writes a lisp configuration file for another program 19:56:52 <|3b|> did you mean QL? 19:57:17 yes i did mean QL 19:57:27 but that shouldn't be of any issue right now 19:57:31 <|3b|> why not? 19:57:44 because i haven't gotten to the point of actually executing these statements yet 19:57:48 just writing them to a file 19:57:57 <|3b|> CL doesn't export QUICKLOAD, so that code won't even READ as written 19:58:19 my thought is 19:58:21 i have it quoted 19:58:21 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:58:28 so it should not evaluate any of the data, no? 19:58:44 it doesn't, but it still has to read it 19:58:49 and cl:quickload won't read 19:58:55 hrm wierd 19:59:00 <|3b|> not really 19:59:27 <|3b|> QUOTE just returns its argument unmodified, in that case a list containing a symbol cl:quickload and a string 19:59:43 <|3b|> that symbol can't be created (by conforming code) since there is no QUICKLOAD in CL 20:00:04 but i am just returning the arguments 20:00:18 so my thought is i could have written a symbol to be asdfasdfasdf:alksjdflsdf 20:00:21 no 20:00:23 nope 20:00:36 why don't you listen to people telling you what happens? 20:00:44 <|3b|> the reader has to create actual symbol objects 20:00:52 hrm, why? 20:00:58 <|3b|> so they can be the same symbol 20:01:02 why not? what else would it construct? 20:01:10 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:01:29 <|3b|> and because that is how CL is defined, in terms of lists and symbols and such as opposed to sequences of characters 20:02:12 i see, i would have imagined the reader to act differently under condition of (quote) 20:02:16 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:19 <|3b|> reader happens before quote 20:02:26 the reader is completely independent of quote 20:02:32 but i always in my mind thought of quote as a flag 20:02:39 <|3b|> you can READ without evaluating for that matter 20:02:43 BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:03:00 <|3b|> common misconception, which is why i tried to explain what it actually does 20:03:53 <|3b|> (or at least it is common to misunderstand QUOTE, lots of people think it creates lists too) 20:04:22 to look up a symbol 20:04:30 seems to be to evaluate that symbol, in my mind 20:04:37 <|3b|> nope 20:04:40 so this isn't something i would expect read to do 20:04:45 i see. 20:04:50 you should stop trying to make intuitive connections, everything is precisely defined 20:05:01 right. 20:05:11 <|3b|> CL evaluation is defined in terms of symbols 20:05:13 i just thought it was specifically defined in another way 20:05:36 because is not a symbol just a function which returns the value held at symbol 20:05:40 <|3b|> symbols name things in CL, like variables and functions 20:05:46 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:05:52 ah 20:06:08 <|3b|> evaluating a symbol is interpreted as accessing a variable named by that symbol 20:06:10 i guess i get confused thinking too pure lisp. such as variables themselves are just functions 20:06:29 <|3b|> evaluating a list is interpreted as calling a function (or macro, special form, etc) named by first element in that list 20:06:33 *|3b|* is simplifying a bit) 20:06:40 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:07:25 <|3b|> the reader creates (or looks up) those symbols by interning a string into a package 20:07:25 -!- fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:14 fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-176-106.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:40 well, how would i go about printing it then, just use a string 20:09:43 <|3b|> except when it gets package-name:symbol-name with a single : in which case it only looks them up, doesn't create if they don't exist (and you aren't allowed to create symbols in CL anyway) 20:09:49 is there a reader which ignores package-names ? 20:09:52 <|3b|> use a string, or make sure the package exists 20:09:53 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-147.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:39 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:41 i am not to know if package exists until i execute the code the program is writing 20:10:45 so i guess i will use strings 20:10:46 if you're printing an existing symbol, it will already have a package 20:10:47 thanks:)! 20:11:25 you can't have a symbol with a non-existing package 20:11:45 when you print it, and then read it, the package may no longer exist 20:11:48 <|3b|> if the package exists when you run it but not when you READ it, you can call FIND-SYMBOL to get the actual symbol, but using strings would probably be easier at that point, since you just turn it back to a string while printing it 20:12:17 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:17 which means that you should ensure the consistency between reading and printing 20:12:33 *|3b|* means the code writing the other code, which probably isn't what you meant now that i read it again 20:14:02 stassats: '#:foo is a symbol with no package, isn't it? 20:14:20 or the result of MAKE-SYMBOL 20:14:22 he said non-existent package, not no package 20:14:24 fortitude: it is, but it's not a package which does not exist 20:14:31 I see 20:14:57 because the writer for the code does not have quicklisp loaded 20:15:08 but it writing code that will have quicklisp loaded 20:15:09 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:39 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:15:44 well, you can have symbols the package of which was deleted, but what happens is undefined 20:16:03 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 20:18:56 ryankarason: Have a look at: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Ambitious.html 20:19:22 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:32 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:30 ryankarason: you can escape the package marker. '(ql\:quickload "Hi") 20:20:30 right, let's get ryankarason more confused 20:21:28 ryankarason: but later you will have to reparse it. Probably better would be to (defstruct future-symbol name package) and use '(#S(future-symbol :package "QL" :name "QUICKLOAD") "hi") 20:23:44 ah alribght 20:23:49 thanks for all your suggestions 20:26:44 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:29:05 i am choosing to use the \: in the symbol name because i want the reader to see package:symbol as just a symbol 20:29:38 confused succeffully 20:30:25 if you print package\:symbol, it won't be the same as package:symbol 20:30:41 the reader will read it as "package:symbol" symbol in the current package 20:32:28 -!- ayeaye92 [~user@dsl-173-206-68-24.tor.primus.ca] has left #lisp 20:35:01 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:35:34 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:21 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:47:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:47:40 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:10 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:27 inkjetunit [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 20:49:34 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:35 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:41 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:50:36 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:52:30 nymo [~user@c-76-17-216-101.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:54 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b87.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:50 -!- inkjetunit [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [Quit: qQQq] 20:55:43 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:48 BZaidan [~GreenLant@41.254.1.55.Huawei-TIP.WiMAX.dynamic.ltt.ly] has joined #lisp 20:55:58 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:20 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:57:04 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:57:29 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:00:46 BZaidan_ [~GreenLant@41.254.1.55.Huawei-TIP.WiMAX.dynamic.ltt.ly] has joined #lisp 21:01:08 -!- BZaidan is now known as Guest54348 21:01:22 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:01:47 All right, who is ready to fix some mcclims 21:01:49 -!- Guest54348 [~GreenLant@41.254.1.55.Huawei-TIP.WiMAX.dynamic.ltt.ly] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:02:17 *stassats* gets his rm-rf sharpened 21:02:27 wow, I though that lib was not to be touched or something? like a very good idea leading to nowhere or something? 21:02:29 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.227.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:30 As far as I can tell, some people like the clim idea enough to use mcclim and it does get updated. 21:03:48 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af5043f.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:06 -!- BZaidan_ [~GreenLant@41.254.1.55.Huawei-TIP.WiMAX.dynamic.ltt.ly] has left #lisp 21:04:17 dim: you shouldn't touch it if you aren't prepared to face diffuculities 21:04:32 I missed that information, I remember that I did like what I read when reading through introdcutory material, should probably have another look sometime 21:04:37 it's a so-so idea, even if it works correctly 21:05:03 people usually disrecommend mcclim because it's buggy and not very usable 21:05:21 well if that's exactly what Xach is out to fix... 21:05:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.86.251] has joined #lisp 21:06:49 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af507ad.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:17 Anyway, mcclim-freetype has :depends-on (:clim-clx :mcclim) which does not build in asdf 3, but :depends-on (:mcclim :clim-clx) does. 21:07:27 :clim-clx is a non-file-based system that is defined in mcclim.asd 21:08:42 same with :mcclim-freetype-cffi and possibly others 21:09:02 ah yes, mcclim-truetype also 21:09:31 non-file-based systems... mm 21:10:02 That's not really what I mean. They are systems that do not share the pathname-name of the file in which they are defined. You can't load them without first loading the pathname-name-matching system. 21:10:10 Well, find-system-ing it anyway. 21:10:29 and asdf changed its behaviour? 21:10:46 hi, help me please, is there any irc server implementation in common lisp? 21:11:44 Xach: oh ok, I've seen some others already 21:12:15 reggy: there's cl-irc but I think it's a client only 21:12:59 dim: yes, it's just client implementation :( 21:14:35 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:11 Hi, what is the expected format of the ~/.aws file for zs3? 21:16:25 just two text lines with the access key and secret key? 21:19:53 gendl: yes 21:19:57 apparently, yes. I seem to be connected to my bucket. 21:20:19 thank you. 21:20:24 I wonder if changing the system file like that would break asdf2 loading. Seems likely. 21:21:22 i don't expect that 21:21:57 Why not? 21:22:28 don't see a reason for that to happen 21:22:45 in any case, i never loaded mcclim-freetype without also loading mcclim 21:23:02 stassats: I think the reason it works in asdf2 is that asdf does something like find-system on :depends-on elements right to left. 21:23:24 I haven't looked into it in detail, though. 21:23:38 I'm not sure by what mechanism it would know how to load clim-clx otherwise. 21:23:43 that can be easily checked 21:23:53 I wish that was true. 21:24:03 If it's easy for you, I'd appreciate you doing it. 21:24:12 it is 21:25:20 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.86.251] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:56 you were right 21:26:36 I wonder what the best solution is. 21:26:41 do nothing 21:27:20 I can't quite do that, it still requires at least some rationalization. 21:27:27 i don't know how people load freetype/truetype, but i did it after mcclim was already loaded 21:28:00 it's like a configuration option, you shouldn't uncoditionally depend on one or the other 21:29:36 include (find-system :mcclim) before the defsystem body 21:30:13 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:23 I bet the suggested solution will have something to do with those awful foo/bar systems. 21:30:31 I mean official suggested solution. 21:31:20 the suggested way to use mcclim-freetype is to use (defmethod asdf:perform :after ((o asdf:load-op) (s (eql (asdf:find-system :clim-clx)))) (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :mcclim-freetype)) 21:31:29 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:10 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d81ad5b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:14 in the init file 21:32:52 which makes sense, since you may want to use freetype or truetype globally, for all mcclim software 21:33:35 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:36:41 Xach: sorry for premature question, i see the description of file-credentials right up at the top 21:39:48 -!- codeburg [~folker@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:49 I kind of like the zs3 manual. 21:41:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:43:46 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:07 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:48:12 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:38 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 21:51:04 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:21 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:53:37 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:6487:60d1:caee:db71] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:49 -!- ASau` [~user@p5797E304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:36 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:43 ASau` [~user@p5797E304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 22:05:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:07 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:00 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@12.160.0.166] has joined #lisp 22:14:03 mjs2600__ [~mjs2600@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:52 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:17:01 -!- mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@12.160.0.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:24:25 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:24:49 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:18 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:28:05 jaccarmac [~jaccarmac@108-236-76-245.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:09 Anyone here familiar with cl-ncurses? I'm trying to work through the C ncurses HOWTO and I can't find out how to check if a value returned by getch is a function key. The C implementation uses a macro KEY_F, but the Lisp binding has no such symbol. 22:29:22 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:31:19 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:25 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:39 jaccarmac: so you can't write in lisp the equivalent of #define KEY_F0 0410 /* Function keys. Space for 64 */ #define KEY_F(n) (KEY_F0+(n)) /* Value of function key n */ ? 22:33:39 22:35:21 jaccarmac: have you looked at the value returned when you press a function key? 22:35:31 dsevilla [~user@77.211.114.234] has joined #lisp 22:36:02 -!- mjs2600__ [~mjs2600@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 22:37:14 pkhuong: I can try that. I just wanted to ask before REPL'ing more. I'm new and timid. :-) 22:37:39 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:46 jaccarmac: just read the documentation! man getch 22:38:06 don't worry, the REPL will always be your friend. 22:38:35 Aha. pjb, I didn't realize that function keys could be represented with ASCII... 22:38:50 jaccarmac: this is not ASCII. 22:38:50 Let me start up my SLIME and see... 22:38:52 again, read the doc! 22:39:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:10 or at least, read the include! it's int getch(), not char getch() !!! 22:40:05 I realize that the function returns an int. 22:40:30 So it can return values way beyond ascii 7-bit bytes. 22:40:53 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:41:06 I guess saying "ASCII" isn't entirely accurate. What I mean is that I now know I can just look up the integer value of a function key. Thanks! 22:41:09 now you can look at what the KEY_F macro does. 22:41:47 Will do. Are the values in that macro portable? 22:42:07 jaccarmac: and beware that 0410 in C is an octal number = #o0410 22:42:36 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 22:42:37 jaccarmac: nope they won't be portable. You'd have to parse those includes on each target system. You may use swig to do that. 22:43:04 Sounds good. 22:44:41 Any idea why those macros and constants wouldn't be ported into the Lisp wrapper? 22:45:43 For this reason. 22:45:47 jaccarmac: nope they won't be portable. You'd have to parse those includes on each target system. You may use swig to do that. 22:46:30 Also, IIRC, swig doesn't translate cpp macros taking arguments, only simple constant-like #defines. 22:46:47 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:16 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 22:47:29 Thought so. Fun... Learning Lisp has taught me more about portability/linking than the rest of my Linux experience. It's fascinating, but definitely not as convenient as, say, the Python wrappers. 22:47:30 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:47 (defun function-key-p (code) (when (<= +key-f0+ code (+ +key-f0+ 63)) (- code +key-f0+))) 22:48:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:04 Of course, Lisp has plenty of other advantages (like speed) :-) I won't be going back to Python. 22:48:22 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 And notice how the ncurses.h file doesn't define this 64 constant. 22:50:27 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:53 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:19 -!- Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:30 -!- jaccarmac [~jaccarmac@108-236-76-245.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:32 -!- dsevilla [~user@77.211.114.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:02 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:02:29 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:03:58 -!- tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:17 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:22 -!- macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:15 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:06 macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:07:42 well, I had to abandon ECL because of the license. Bummer 23:11:33 Denommus: capitalist shill! 23:12:16 it's too impractical to distribute an android app that links to a LGPL lib 23:12:29 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 23:12:42 I think I'll use Chicken Scheme. It's not Common Lisp, but at least it's still a Lisp, and with BSD license 23:16:35 banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.133.24] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:00 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:10 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 23:20:00 Denommus: you could have configured it to make dynamic libecl.so... 23:20:07 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:20:13 would mean a bit more code to initialize, but would have worked 23:20:42 Denommus, I've successfully built an android app with kawa scheme 23:20:45 p_l: but then I have to provide some way of changing this .so 23:21:04 nope 23:21:10 p_l: with LGPL, the user must have this liberty 23:21:23 Denommus: and the user can unpack the APK and replace the lib 23:21:25 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:32 (and pack it with his own keys) 23:21:46 indeed 23:22:00 hm. I'll think about that 23:28:30 p_l: but what if I distribute my APK only through Google Play? 23:31:59 -!- reggy [~reg@178.163.89.83] has quit [Quit: test : quit channel] 23:33:49 -!- eduardoboucas [~eduardobo@141.0.35.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:08 eduardoboucas [~eduardobo@141.0.35.130] has joined #lisp 23:37:24 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:53 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:48 nightfly [~sage@rarity.sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:00 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:44:52 Denommus: all you have to do is provide linkable object file *on request* 23:45:55 p_l: I'm not sure my boss will agree with that. I'm sending him an email, but it is really likely he won't want to use a LGPL library to avoid trouble 23:46:04 if *I* was the one to decide, I'd use it 23:49:06 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:54:07 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:55:33 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has left #lisp 23:55:43 PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has joined #lisp 23:55:44 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]