00:01:32 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:13 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:29 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 00:02:35 sigh. that evan miller tripe on lispers not doing "real" math is back on proggit. 00:03:03 Real math? 00:03:05 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.30] has joined #lisp 00:05:28 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:08 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:34 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-182-85.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:12:36 ckoch786_ [~quassel@108-70-143-173.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:39 wat is reel maths? 00:15:46 http://www.evanmiller.org/mathematical-hacker.html looks like 00:15:52 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-164-87.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:16:47 he oughta use the matrix solution like in fare's bit, rather than approximating with float arithmetic... 00:17:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:17:22 That's what I found. 00:17:56 Greetings! 00:18:00 He seems to confuse method with implementation. 00:18:29 You really need two people to do the job of what he suggests one should be able to do. 00:18:42 Both fields are already too deep for a single person to master. 00:18:56 Why not have a mathematician and a programmer working together? 00:19:17 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:20:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:22 I just noticed that postgresql can't automatically determine type of elements in array if I pass empty one. Is it ok if postmodern doesn't automatically declare type in this case? I've just implemented path that adds this feature and now I'm not sure if it was right thing to do. 00:22:47 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:24:29 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:26:04 Here is the code: https://github.com/HiTECNOLOGYs/Postmodern/commit/8eb06629a3a0dd80a7fbbf8cfaa8f3f0e2bc16f4 00:26:55 pkhuong: just point out in the direction of Macsyma ;) 00:28:14 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:04 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:25 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.166.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:31:29 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:49 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:53 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:59 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 00:36:09 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 00:36:36 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:04 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:38:03 or, those of us who use lisp for applied math research. With, in addition to the usual discrete math and logic suspects, matlisp, lisp stat, the monotone boolean function library I saw in an OR conference last month, that wing design app, ... there are few PLs with the depth and breadth of mathematically sophisticate coders as CL. 00:38:11 TheJackDev [~martin1@189-91-18-233.mastercabo.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:38:50 -!- TheJackDev [~martin1@189-91-18-233.mastercabo.com.br] has left #lisp 00:38:52 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 00:38:59 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 00:40:17 even more so considering the size of the candidate pool 00:41:20 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:26 I don't see anything bad in using lisp for math researches. Why not? 00:43:17 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:21 pkhuong: I've read his post a few weeks ago, actually.. wondered why the guy hated Lisp so much he had to come up with all that nonsense about "them Lisp people" 00:50:38 adeht: I read this article and imo this guy only talks about typical ways of thinking, not about languages. But "focused on the problem of programming" is nonsense for sure. 00:51:41 hitecnologys: his "typical" group exists only in his mind 00:53:16 adeht: sure. Anyway, there are some people who think like he described but they are only 1% of all lispers. 00:55:16 And math is abstaction layer too so this article is mostly nonsense. 00:58:34 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:23 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.32] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleDip] 01:01:00 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:01:07 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:03 A long time ago I had argument with some guy about lisp and c#. He tried to prove that people don't need lisp because it's unreadable and unsuable. I can't understand why lots of people hate lisp so much. 01:02:46 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:02 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:48 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:16 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:07:03 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:08:32 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:14:16 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 01:16:54 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:51 Ah, I'm idioit, I could just pass :null insted of empty array. 01:19:19 -!- srikumar__ [~srikumar@220.227.95.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:21:38 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:42 -!- vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has quit 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[~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:29:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:30:35 -!- runciter [~mrw@c-50-156-39-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:32:50 bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has joined #lisp 09:34:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:26 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 09:37:15 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f39.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:31 how good is the CL standard library ? 09:40:55 ph88: very good. 09:41:28 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:43:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:24 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:45:40 was reading http://briancarper.net/blog/410/ "Quoth GT on January 19, 2009 @ 6:33 AM PST" 09:46:40 if you want to discuss that article, please use the comments there. if you want to discuss specific issues raised there, ask actual questions. 09:49:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:50:56 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-148-22.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:51:08 " Learning Emacs and SLIME was just about the most painful computer experience I've ever been through." - okay! 09:51:42 Personally, even I had to learn Emacs just to learn CL, but it has been worth the efforts. And slime rocks. 09:52:20 the article is 4 years old 09:52:22 -!- GuilOooo_ [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:53:15 one thing that i noticed of the bunch of articles i've read by now ... is some people really really like CL, or really really don't like it 09:53:32 i've never seen that to such degree about another programming language 09:54:24 C++ is the immediate one I can think of 09:54:33 or java 09:54:34 or forth 09:54:52 well, about any language actually. some hate them, some love them. 09:56:53 ph88: you will actually have to learn a language to build your own opinion. looking at opinionated answers from the lovers or haters camp won't really get you anywhere. 09:57:37 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 09:57:47 ph88: there is no language that is universally and equally good for everyone. for some, visual basic is best, for others haskell. you need to find out what's best for you by learning a bunch of languages and then sticking with the one that suits you best. 09:58:34 ph88: learning means writing actual code. to learn a language, you need to read about it in educational textbooks and then work with it for months. there is no substitute. 09:59:44 just orientating right now 10:00:10 start coding. 10:01:18 i am already 10:01:27 im just orientating for new directions 10:01:35 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:40 did anyone see antonv_ around ? 10:05:52 ph88: yes. 10:05:58 when ?? 10:06:04 i am looking for him for a week now 10:06:09 ph88: so? 10:06:21 so was he here during this time ? 10:06:28 -!- hashcat [~m18@218-173-232-133.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:06:56 actually since the last 5 days 10:06:59 not a full week 10:07:02 why don't you look into the logs? 10:07:09 didnt know there were logs 10:07:12 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:07:20 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 10:07:24 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:07 marrtos [d9e77d47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.231.125.71] has joined #lisp 10:16:39 Hello, I want to learn a lisp dialect, but I am not so sure if I should learn common lisp or scheme, could somebody explain the difference between these two? 10:18:39 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f39.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:18:53 marrtos: try google "common lisp vs scheme" 10:19:11 marrtos: then come back with specific questions regarding common lisp. scheme is discussed in #scheme 10:20:03 ok 10:21:12 Well...actually I have one specific question: Is common lisp a compiled or an interpreted language? 10:21:30 common lisp is compiled, but interactive 10:21:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21:48 is it the same with scheme? 10:22:02 marrtos: scheme is discussed in #scheme 10:22:09 ok, I am sorry 10:22:10 hashcat [~m18@110.28.77.50] has joined #lisp 10:22:50 -!- daem0n` is now known as daem0n 10:22:51 -!- daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has quit [Changing host] 10:22:51 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 10:24:42 marrtos: you can try #lispcafe for a lisp oriented channel that is not as much oriented towards common lisp as #lisp 10:24:44 marrtos: several cl implementations support both an interpreter and compiler, but the language was designed to be compilable and incrementally optimizable 10:26:11 and as H4ns already said, the compiler can be used interactively 10:27:54 so they just provide a REPL? 10:28:59 the repl is optional depending on application, but yes all implementations that I know come with a repl, and emacs+slime is often used to provide an enhanced repl and development integration 10:29:49 i.e. C-c C-c to recompile a block of code from the editor into the live image, with the repl in another buffer on the side, etc 10:30:29 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 10:30:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B_4vhsmRRI is a demo of a slime interactive session 10:31:10 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31:21 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-122-56-77.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:31:58 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 10:32:49 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 10:34:27 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 10:37:19 ph88: have a look at http://cliki.net/ 10:37:35 pjb: what's that ? 10:37:46 oh resources 10:37:58 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:38:08 is it about standard library ? 10:38:17 marrtos: languages are not compiled or interpreted. They are just languages: set of sequences of words. 10:38:40 ph88: about everything, even about IRC and irc logs. 10:38:49 http://www.cliki.net/site/search?query=irc 10:39:30 marrtos: implementations may use interpreters, compilers, or some other things to evaluate sentences of a given language. 10:39:33 oh ye maybe i can make an irc bot 10:39:49 marrtos: most CL implementations have both, some even more ways of evaluating expressions. 10:40:27 ph88: There's also the standard google searches: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=irc+log+lisp 10:40:41 mallory [~user@125.122.82.244] has joined #lisp 10:41:29 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 10:42:18 ok thanks 10:43:57 -!- hashcat [~m18@110.28.77.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:44:10 thx pjp 10:46:25 marrtos: this is important, because you can write other tools than evaluators that will interpret the language in other ways. 10:46:47 marrtos: for example, a documentation generator. Or a static analyser. Etc. 10:48:11 oh, that sounds interessting 10:48:16 marrtos: and yourself, while writing plebeian programs, you can define EVAL-like functions that interpret expressions in your own specific ways. Partial evaluation, generating SQL or javascript, etc. 10:52:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-243-149.lns13.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:55:41 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.32.87] has joined #lisp 10:55:41 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.32.87] has quit [Changing host] 10:55:41 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:01:25 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-34-198.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:03:34 -!- mallory [~user@125.122.82.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:42 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:05:42 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:05:55 -!- marrtos [d9e77d47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.231.125.71] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:06:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:16 hashcat [~m18@218-173-232-133.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:07 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:09:21 -!- yati [~yati@125.99.115.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:10:27 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:a517:f84e:7966:9214] has joined #lisp 11:12:07 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:13:44 yusup [~yusup@58.100.63.81] has joined #lisp 11:13:44 -!- yusup [~yusup@58.100.63.81] has quit [Client Quit] 11:14:50 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@44.99-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 11:15:40 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@44.99-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 11:15:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:19:03 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.236.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:44 Can I ask a question about slime here? 11:22:14 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:44 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 11:28:31 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:16 yati [~yati@125.99.115.205] has joined #lisp 11:44:00 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:16 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 11:51:53 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:35 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-34-198.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:54:20 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #lisp 11:54:26 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:17 hitecnologys, ask 11:59:16 Is there normal way to bind swank to different interface? I've repalced *loopback-interface* value but it looks like some kind of hack. 12:00:01 kbrntk [~perlisasi@p5B157738.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:01:35 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:18 Teratogen [leontopod@unaffiliated/teratogen] has joined #lisp 12:07:50 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.87.116] has joined #lisp 12:08:34 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:30 hitecnologys: there isn't a normal way. 12:09:40 hitecnologys: the usual thing to do is tunnel e.g. via ssh 12:10:44 Xach: I'm just running on my other computer in local network so ssh tunnel looks a bit complicated for this task. 12:11:09 Xach: is it ok if I just leave everything as is or I should make tunner? 12:13:03 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:13:47 s/tunner/tunnel/ 12:16:28 -!- yati [~yati@125.99.115.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16:45 -!- hashcat [~m18@218-173-232-133.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:17:14 hashcat [~m18@218-173-232-133.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:13 hitecnologys: that's the normal way, indeed. 12:18:38 hitecnologys: one could argue it's not a good way to rely on global variable to pass parameters. 12:19:15 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:19:19 That's nice. Thanks for help Xach and pjb. 12:19:34 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:19:36 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 12:19:51 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:11 hitecnologys: you can always (defun create-swank-server (&rest arguments &key address port style dont-close backlog) (let ((swank:*loopback-interface* address)) (apply (function swank:create-server) :allow-other-keys t arguments))) and use create-swank-server instead. 12:21:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-193.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:22:24 pjb: I don't think I need that because I have separate copies on different machines so each one can be configured specially to work on that computer. 12:22:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:25:08 -!- davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:27:49 hello. clisp gives me 3.5470116863195568323L48 as a result of a calculation. what does "L48" mean? 12:29:18 long-float 12:29:30 schoppenhauer: CL has 4 different kinds of floats. 12:29:44 in clisp, you can set the number of digits of long floats. 12:30:20 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-51-54.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:41 pjb: that means, L48 sais that the float has 48 digits? 12:31:08 Try: (progn (print pi) (setf (ext:long-float-digits) 128) (print pi) (setf (ext:long-float-digits) 1024) (print pi)) 12:31:23 schoppenhauer: no, it's the exponent, like in normal float notation. 12:31:28 It means *10^ 12:31:39 pjb: thx. 12:31:45 the L, D, E, S or F. 12:32:30 ok. thanks. 12:32:33 I was just wondering. 12:32:35 Notice that changing the value of a constant variable like PI is not really conforming 12:32:54 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:33:03 ok 12:33:40 i actually only need it to calculate a few numbers, and cl is the only language I know that can get to a sufficient precision without too much bending. 12:34:24 If you need only 13 significant bits (4 or 5 decimal digits IIRC), you can use short-float. 12:34:48 (the above number is about the volume of the observable universe in m³ btw) 12:34:54 schoppenhauer: (setf (ext:long-float-digits) 64) (defparameter *tau* (/ 44l0 7)) (setf (ext:long-float-digits) 512) (values *tau* (/ 44l0 7)) 12:35:16 well short floats are also more limited in the exponent 12:35:25 1s48 is out of bounds. 12:35:34 ok. 12:35:53 so you need at least double-float. 12:41:03 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:45:13 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:24 echo-area [~user@123.120.236.235] has joined #lisp 12:56:30 Aiwass` [~user@188.26.200.73] has joined #lisp 12:57:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:36 -!- Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:04 -!- hashcat [~m18@218-173-232-133.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:06:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.87.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:51 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:16:56 -!- Ryxai [~Whitewolf@ool-457a9364.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:34 hashcat [~m18@110-28-77-50.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:02 tandy80 [~tandy80@156.136.198.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:19 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:30:53 -!- Teratogen [leontopod@unaffiliated/teratogen] has quit [Quit: I always have coffee when I watch radar!] 13:32:27 -!- nmeum [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:34:37 Hi all, I have a question regarding compiler optimization 13:34:58 I have two functions that should behave exactly the same 13:35:19 except for that one is generated as a closure 13:35:42 the closure version takes twice as time to run 13:35:53 the source code is at http://ec2-54-242-26-216.compute-1.amazonaws.com:9700/doku.php?id=temp:code_paste 13:36:25 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:20 looking at the disassembled code, the closure one even has a call to a generic function, though all the variables are declared as fixnum 13:37:43 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:39:32 what's the question? 13:40:06 oh, sorry. the question is why the closure version is slower and how, if possible, to improve it 13:41:51 because in the closure version the values you're doing arithmetic are variable, while in the other version one of them is constant 13:41:59  13:42:11 and to get the variable, the closure version needs to chase some pointers 13:42:47 and a call to a closure usually needs to go through some extra work to set up the environment 13:43:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:43:25 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:00 so it does not do constant folding? 13:45:03 Okay that says, it can be better if I make gen-fast-version a macro 13:45:18 I'll have a try, thanks 13:45:50 right, no compilation happens when you call gen-fast-version. there's a single compiled version of the lambda, that is shared by all closures you create by calling the function 13:46:25 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:39 got it, thank you~ 13:48:31 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:53:34 breakds: careful what you look at when you disassemble. You might be looking at the code for gen-fast-version, not the closure. 13:56:33 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:33 pkhuong: the first notation is .ENTRY (LAMBDA (X) :IN GEN-NORMAL-VERSION)(X) 13:58:45 I guess this means it's the closure itself? 13:59:09 pkhuong: sorry, it is .ENTRY (LAMBDA (X) :IN GEN-FAST-VERSION)(X) 14:04:56 If you're on SBCL, the control flow is straightforward enough there not to confuse disassemble, that's the code for the closure... but I don't have any generic arithmetic there. 14:06:35 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-122-56-77.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:07:23 pkhuong: you're right. I checked my code again, and found that fast-version is bound to another function 14:07:35 when fixed, there is no generic arithmetic at all 14:07:45 sorry for the confusion 14:10:43 However when I try to implement the gen-fast-version as macro 14:10:55 I found that the argument n 14:11:02 need to be evaluated twice 14:11:11 first to get the form of n 14:11:19 then evaluate the form to get the value 14:11:49 -!- adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:12:12 adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:18 I feel it is weird to do so ... should I use functions instead? 14:12:45 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.236.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:15 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 14:16:17 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:34 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-122-56-77.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:23:22 breakds: usually, macros expand into code that will evaluate the form. But, if it can be a function, you probably want to haev a function; compiler macros can help with performance, e.g. when some argument is a constant. 14:28:05 pkhuong: thanks. I found that compiler macros are just what I need 14:29:31 echo-area [~user@123.120.236.235] has joined #lisp 14:33:23 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:45 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:19 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:49 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:08 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.57.189] has joined #lisp 14:57:37 Hans [~weechat@175.144.71.192] has joined #lisp 15:06:35 nmeum [~nmeum@141.101.32.125] has joined #lisp 15:07:32 -!- nmeum [~nmeum@141.101.32.125] has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:18 -!- Hans [~weechat@175.144.71.192] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:15:22 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] 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has joined #lisp 17:04:25 Tjis [~Tjis@unaffiliated/tjis] has joined #lisp 17:04:30 -!- Tjis [~Tjis@unaffiliated/tjis] has left #lisp 17:05:39 matko [~matko@ip82-139-124-108.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:41 jamesf [~jamesf@46.208.21.116] has joined #lisp 17:11:15 -!- hashcat [~m18@110-28-77-50.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:36 jamesf_ [~jamesf@37.152.227.43] has joined #lisp 17:13:05 -!- jamesf [~jamesf@46.208.21.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:17:21 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f39.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:56 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:27:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@158.181.195.174] has joined #lisp 17:27:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@158.181.195.174] has quit [Changing host] 17:27:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:31:55 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 17:31:58 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:11 hello ! 17:32:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:32:42 is there a way to change the default superclass for a specific metaclass ? 17:36:12 *Xach* makes http://quicklisp.org/search?q=xml work 17:37:37 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:42 Xach: quickdocs is interesting.. maybe when you post quicklisp updates on planet lisp, each project could have a link to its quickdocs page 17:40:52 jdtw [~user@50.46.149.185] has joined #lisp 17:41:28 I'm thinking of something like that 17:43:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:45:19 Xach: also I wouldn't complain if you add lredis, towers, and consix from https://github.com/death?tab=repositories ;) 17:47:14 ok! 17:48:14 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:48:27 lredis is already added 17:48:34 Xach: I vaguely remember there's something you'd like added in the .asd file? 17:48:44 :license and :author and :description usually 17:48:50 (never mind, a macro around defclass is more explicit) 17:49:05 Xach: ok 17:50:50 -!- mknln [~mknln@71-14-184-184.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:55 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:25 mknln [~mknln@71-14-184-184.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:35 -!- iLogical is now known as GoelRatzon 17:56:29 -!- jdtw [~user@50.46.149.185] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:57:57 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:18 -!- GoelRatzon is now 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 18:43:17 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:45:52 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:38 -!- Guest41 [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-27.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:33 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:56:53 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:17 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 19:03:19 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 19:03:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:07:26 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:23 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:30 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:12:31 -!- Gr1zzly [~Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-178-188.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:20 asr_ [~asr@c-76-126-245-217.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:20:41 Gr1zzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-314-158.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:44 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:23 I'm getting an sbcl error: Unable to display error condition: error in FORMAT: no package named "SB!EXT" The function ~/sb!ext:print-symbol-with-prefix/ is undefined. 19:25:23 19:25:57 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:27:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:29:40 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:43 hashcat [~m18@110-28-71-243.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:49 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:03 it happens if you have a function call form with a non-fboundp name 19:33:36 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:22 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 19:38:36 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.241.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:09 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:22 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:39:28 runciter [~mrw@c-50-156-39-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@d205-250-223-135.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:24 -!- jrajav 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