00:00:00 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 00:00:32 beesmoose [~There@cpe-74-72-32-188.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:59 adei [~adei@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust697.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:59 -!- adei [~adei@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust697.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:21 adei [~adei@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust697.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:32 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 00:03:49 -!- adei [~adei@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust697.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 00:09:47 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:50 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 00:09:56 -!- beesmoose [~There@cpe-74-72-32-188.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:13:53 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:19:51 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:22:35 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:24:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 00:25:37 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:25:49 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 00:26:58 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 00:27:35 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:36 hi all 00:29:26 p_l: Yeah, sadly. From my experience a vast majority of users and a pretty significant of amount of western developers don't. That being said, it's purely anecdotal and may not be representative to others. 00:30:51 Anyways, on another note; Dream (Scheme) OS's hosting finally ended... so glad I archived a copy. \o/ 00:31:20 youlysses: what is that? 00:32:19 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:41 dsevilla: A GPL'd RSR4 Scheme implementation which runs directly on-top of x86 assembly. 00:32:53 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:41 I plan on probably gutting it and turning it to a VM-powered platform for learning Scheme, for the text I'm writing in Esperanto. 00:34:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.76.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:34:40 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 00:35:08 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:36:33 youlysses: interesting. 00:36:47 -!- Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:37:07 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37:35 youlysses: ah, so the site is down 00:39:38 a pity is not available 00:39:44 it is amazing what they do... 00:41:45 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:25 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:10 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:05 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 00:54:54 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:56 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-250-111.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:55:40 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-4-143.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:00:18 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:00:46 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:04 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:09 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:05:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:31 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:06:06 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:18 -!- hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 01:07:34 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 01:08:05 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:59 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:24 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:29 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:46 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:16:43 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.85.84] has joined #lisp 01:19:12 Is there a way to catch an exception generated by the compiler? I thought ignore-errors or unwind-protect by stop an exception generated by (lambda () (1)) but I think I'm missing something. 01:20:24 you can wrap your #'compile call. 01:20:36 I think. 01:21:36 (ignore-errors (compile '(lambda () (1)))) for example 01:23:12 Looks good so far 01:23:31 (lambda () (1)) works fine for me, what problem are you running into? 01:23:45 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.85.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:25:01 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845485865.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:27:17 I think wrapping the compile is working. (lambda () (1)) generated an exception as it probably should, I'm just working with some genetic programming stuff that will likely generate some garbage, so I wanted a way to override the debugger being activated in those cases. 01:28:04 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:41 as opposed to preventing it from generating garbage? 01:29:49 -!- iglu [~nick@203-59-240-52.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:30:15 ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:36 arrdem [~user@107-194-73-19.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:03 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:33:17 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:33:39 Sort of 01:33:43 (setq success (handler-case (compile 'test '(lambda () (1))) (ccl::compile-time-program-error () nil))) 01:35:05 I mean, (lambda () (1)) on the repl in my compile-only implementation displays an error but doesn't drop into the debugger or anything. 01:35:16 (compile nil '(lambda () (1))) is also fine. 01:36:05 I'm using Slime with CCL. Maybe Swank is causing the debugger? 01:36:40 Oh huh, on ccl it does hit the debugger. hm. 01:37:35 You're right. SBCL just outputs the error but both Clisp and CCL jump into the debugger. 01:37:41 "Both compile and compile-file are permitted (but not required) to establish a handler for conditions of type error. For example, they might signal a warning, and restart compilation from some implementation-dependent point in order to let the compilation proceed without manual intervention." oh, i thought it was mandated, sorry. 01:38:52 Ok. That makes sense. 01:39:16 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.47.65] has joined #lisp 01:39:48 I've been scratching my head for a while trying to figure this out. Just curious, why would compile allow the catching of this exception but the plain lambda wouldn't? 01:42:09 er, what? 01:42:17 (eval '(lambda () (1))) can do whatever. 01:44:31 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 01:44:40 For some reason I wasn't able to catch an exception by wrapping it in eval either. 01:45:40 -!- davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:40 that's because ccl's eval just compiles. 01:45:43 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-hswdzcetzclqaluo] has joined #lisp 01:46:50 Interesting. I would have guessed that it would pass any exceptions back up the chain like compile itself would but maybe that's just a debugger friendly feature. 01:48:18 Oh well. Thanks both. That helps a bunch. 01:48:25 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:34 (ignore-errors (eval '(lambda () (1)))) works fine. 01:49:17 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:49:42 Ah. I had tried earlier that and left out the ' ugh 01:50:04 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 01:50:21 Noob mistake 01:51:41 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:55 One more thing that's been bugging me. Is there a way to tell the the compiler to generate the compiled code to a function and save the s-expr as well? I have something that I'm doing something similar in a manual way for the generated functions but thought there might be a way to turn on s-expr source caching of some sort as well. 01:52:36 nope 01:52:38 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:52:52 pretty easy to write your own macros etc. to save it for you, of course 01:54:00 Could I create sometype of shadowing alias that gets called instead of compile (that of course calls the real compile) each time I create a lambda for example? 01:54:08 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:54:29 i'd just (defmacro my-lambda ...) 01:54:54 Compile is a reasonable choice, since it will allow you to collect the name given. 01:55:09 And will handle the dynamic cases -- assuming that's what is important to you. 01:55:40 Sure. I'll look into going that direction. 01:57:23 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 01:59:51 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:05:13 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 02:11:38 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:16 -!- arrdem [~user@107-194-73-19.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:25:51 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:29 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:18 d4gg4d_ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has joined #lisp 02:32:24 -!- d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwqdcndmtittoqhj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:32:25 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:25 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:32:26 -!- d4gg4d_ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has quit [Changing host] 02:32:26 d4gg4d_ [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aibezvpwgehymtga] has joined #lisp 02:32:39 -!- d4gg4d_ is now known as d4gg4d 02:32:40 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:33:17 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-64-4.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:01 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 02:35:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 274 seconds] 02:35:46 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 02:37:04 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:37:53 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:37:55 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.47.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:39:16 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:41:09 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 02:45:13 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:26 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.43.104] has joined #lisp 02:48:26 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.43.104] has quit [Changing host] 02:48:26 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:49:05 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.143.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:51:23 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:57:31 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 02:58:27 -!- drurowin [~user@173-25-41-2.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:59:44 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:00:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:31 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:13 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:17 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:53 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@209-6-246-54.c3-0.wrx-ubr1.sbo-wrx.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:12 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 03:27:55 hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.90.193] has joined #lisp 03:33:39 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:34:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-64-4.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:35:06 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.198.76] has joined #lisp 03:35:29 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-64-4.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:01 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.198.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:56:07 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:08 rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 04:01:42 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:42 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:13 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Bed-time...? 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06:41:03 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 06:42:11 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 06:42:24 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:42:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:42:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:42:48 H4ns: perhaps with C-u ? 06:43:14 or by renaming the first slime inspector buffer. 06:43:22 M-x rename-buffer RET 06:43:54 C-u does not work, so there is no "official" way i guess. 06:44:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 06:45:15 another question: is there a way to yank the previous expression without explictly copying it into the kill ring? i often want * but not really 06:45:28 M-p 06:45:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f4ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:47 Or just type RET on it in slime repl, IIRC. 06:46:06 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 06:46:24 i want to yank the previous expression into a partial expression that i have typed. 06:46:47 You have a full editor at your fingers. 06:46:53 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:56 And a full programming environment to modify it. 06:46:59 right. also a "no", thank you so much pjb 06:47:41 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:47:48 H4ns: you just go to the previous expression, and press enter 06:48:08 the "rename-buffer" trick that you've suggested does not work, so apparently you cannot have two inspectors. 06:48:42 jdz: i know that, but that's not what i want and i wondered if anyone else had wanted what i want and implemented it. 06:49:05 H4ns: i think i'm missing what you're after, exactly. 06:49:26 jdz: suppose i have used some (expression) to yield some intermediate result 06:49:55 jdz: now i want to operate on the intermediate result, but i want to avoid * because then the expression will no longer be self-contained 06:50:37 That may be a interesting feature. You could bind it to C-u M-p. It should not be too hard to implement. 06:50:42 jdz: so i'm looking for a shortcut to yank the previous repl expression entered. but maybe i'm just thinking wrongly. 06:50:46 H4ns: i wonder if i have some contrib enabled that you don't. i just start typing the new expression, then navigate (using arrow keys for example) to the previous expression, and press RET 06:50:53 pjb: yeah. or C-c * 06:51:17 jdz: ah, that's the spirit. what contribs do you have? 06:51:34 ah! 06:51:43 jdz: it works for me, too! thanks! :) 06:51:52 H4ns: well, np! :) 06:52:29 and yeah, it would be cool if C-u RET in slime inspector would create a new (independent) frame 06:52:35 pjb: sorry, i overlooked your suggestion regarding RET 06:52:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-222.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:52:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:07 jdz: it seems that the inspector uses global state - at least judging from its misbehavior when renaming the buffer. 06:53:49 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 06:55:49 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Client Quit] 06:56:17 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:57:11 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 06:57:56 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 06:58:56 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:00:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3867.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02:29 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d814a65.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:06 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-94-45.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 07:04:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-148-63.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:33 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-hlcpiuqbbsqzxmzj] has joined #lisp 07:06:44 H4ns: your yanking is, I beleive, what I call "slime-repl-next-splice" http://paste.lisp.org/display/134707 07:08:34 Vivitron: yeah, that looks like it, thanks! 07:09:00 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.190.124.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 07:09:20 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 07:10:12 Vivitron: awesome! 07:10:31 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:56 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3867.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:14:39 np. I forgot to mention it in the paste but IIRC that code was mostly tweaked from slime's history searching functions for the desired behavior rather than an original implementation 07:15:57 Vivitron: *shrug* wfm :) 07:16:26 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:17:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3867.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.237.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:25:23 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:57 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 07:26:54 CrazyEddy [~supervast@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.154.59] has left #lisp 07:38:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 07:43:08 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 07:43:35 hmm... i'm having trouble entering cl-interpol expressions in my emacs-slime-paredit buffer... it keeps inserting random spaces and stuff as i'm typing the cl-interpol expressions... how do you guys deal with this? 07:43:35 robot-beethoven, memo from pjb: perhaps it refers to http://www.amazon.com/Moyen-%C3%A0ge-Renaissance-Description-Lindustrie-Litt%C3%A9ratures/dp/1274494737 07:48:36 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-hswdzcetzclqaluo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:48:40 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 07:49:26 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:50:46 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:51:35 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.74] has joined #lisp 07:52:26 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:53:17 nostoi [~nostoi@217.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:31 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:55:43 ;Good mroning! 07:57:36 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:47 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 08:12:55 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:13:51 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 08:14:01 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:28 ehu [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has joined #lisp 08:20:47 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:21:08 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:29 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:28 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:43 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-cmvdoidysyezcwsc] has joined #lisp 08:27:56 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 08:28:57 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:30 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:30 robot-beethoven: I have no problems with cl-interpol 08:30:47 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:55 and I too use paredit together with slime 08:31:11 what expressions do you type? 08:32:15 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 08:33:36 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 08:33:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:35:41 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 08:38:10 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:38:24 for example, if I literally type this first part of my desired expression: "#?/[" my buffer shows: "#?/ []" with point between the braces 08:41:30 in fact, any cl-interpol expression containing a "[" adds a space before the brace 08:41:43 (on my box, of course) 08:42:45 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:41 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 08:47:41 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@217.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 08:49:28 For christmas I want a code checker. 08:50:23 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:51:32 ph88 [2e2c9618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.44.150.24] has joined #lisp 08:51:42 -!- ph88 [2e2c9618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.44.150.24] has left #lisp 08:53:35 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 08:55:33 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:41 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d814a65.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:55:43 trebor_dki 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seconds] 09:21:37 easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:23:32 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.168] has joined #lisp 09:24:49 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:26:42 robot-beethoven: what's the value of parens-require-spaces? 09:30:29 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:34 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 09:40:25 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 09:41:55 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:42:02 -!- hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.90.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:25 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:45:15 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:02 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zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:59:09 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:55 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:03:14 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.168] has joined #lisp 11:12:18 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.29.119.186] has joined #lisp 11:14:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:16:37 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:22:24 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.213.65.179] has joined #lisp 11:24:49 -!- Ulysses22222 [~daniel@109.226.13.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:32:56 -!- iglu [~nick@203-59-240-52.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:33:33 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.29.119.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:38:27 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:42:44 Ulysses22222 [~daniel@109.226.59.7] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.60.207] has joined #lisp 11:46:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:48:56 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.213.65.179] has left #lisp 11:49:13 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 11:52:07 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:55:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:58:49 i love that the car and cdr of nil are both nil instead of segfault lol 12:01:38 they are not, thus they're nil! 12:02:02 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 12:03:52 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:07:21 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:09:25 protist: what else should they be other than nil 12:09:26 ? 12:09:31 makes perfect sense .. 12:11:01 They might be an error, as with scheme. 12:11:08 Both approaches are reasonable. 12:12:11 I always thought that the scheme aproach was not very reasonable.. 12:12:46 (on that point specifically) 12:13:55 the scheme approach is a very type-oriented and constructivist view 12:14:10 zhivago 12:14:17 do you remember me? 12:14:23 No. 12:14:26 why? 12:14:28 why 12:14:35 Insufficiently significant? 12:14:37 yhou are austrailian? 12:14:46 haha 12:14:54 I don't know. What is austrailian? 12:15:10 hmm 12:15:36 your age is about 42? 12:15:44 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 12:15:48 Hmm, who is "ram" in CMUCL-ese? 12:15:52 I am as old as my tongue and older than my teeth. 12:15:54 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:15:57 galactic_pretty_: that's enough 12:16:25 Rob MacLachlan? 12:16:43 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:08 That sounds likely. 12:17:59 in 2002 zhivago taught me galactic pretty boy 12:18:00 Xach: Rob MacLachlan.. 12:19:02 galactic_pretty_: Go away. 12:19:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-148-63.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:19:53 Xach: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/gwydion/hackers/clisp-hackers/ram/compiler/loop.lisp if you need a reference 12:20:51 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:20:56 "ram" posted a funny CL filk by Skef Wholey in 1987. Wanted to get attribution right. 12:21:07 Xach: link? 12:22:02 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:22:02 *zorkmoid* is reading xah lee ranting on cll... 12:22:32 :) 12:23:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137771 12:23:14 zorkmoid: hmm, this code looks familiar ;) 12:23:25 pkhuong: :-) 12:23:48 the cmu lisp archive is really a fun gold mine 12:24:50 -!- davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:24:53 Xach: haha, i remeber that one! 12:24:54 zorkmoid: ... xah lee? Masochist ;) 12:25:09 Xach, there's a reference to EXPLODE. \o/ 12:25:19 p_l: yes, well, waiting for a batch job to finish ... :-) 12:25:58 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:24 Quadrescence: what was EXPLODE? 12:26:43 string -> list of chars 12:26:46 ah 12:26:51 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/faqs/lang/lisp/part2/faq-doc-3.html 12:26:56 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:27:17 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:27:33 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:27:42 ah yes i should have said symbol -> list of chars 12:28:07 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 12:29:28 mm... wonder, wonder if one could port the old spice lisp compiler .. 12:30:48 karswell` [~user@87.114.18.18] has joined #lisp 12:30:50 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 12:31:39 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:01 -!- karswell [~user@87.115.223.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:35:37 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 12:40:53 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:42:14 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:45:00 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:45:54 Some of RAM's notes about Spice are still relevant, or were until very recently. 12:46:01 notes from 1988, too. 12:46:51 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:06 ehu [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has joined #lisp 12:49:27 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-31-20.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 12:49:37 yeah 12:49:40 pretty code too 12:50:23 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.149.56] has quit [Quit: brb] 12:51:21 Blkt [~user@82.84.149.56] has joined #lisp 12:52:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-31-20.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:50 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:53 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 12:56:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:56:47 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:58:23 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:25 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:29 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:46 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:57 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 13:03:23 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:34 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:06:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:06:51 -!- protist [~protist@41.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:07:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:08:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.77.101] has joined #lisp 13:08:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.77.101] has quit [Changing host] 13:08:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:09:31 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 13:10:20 http://gigamonkeys.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/not-that-skef-wholey/ <-- relevant-ish 13:12:08 oudeis [~oudeis@213.57.224.50] has joined #lisp 13:12:36 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:08 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:15:30 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:16:42 if anyone here isn't using https://github.com/m2ym/popwin-el yet, you're missing out ((: 13:17:04 I use it and can confirm that I like it too 13:17:18 (this pretty much fixes everything about buffer/window management I always hated about emacs, so must recommend highly) (: 13:17:39 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:50 my best use case for it though is with xcscope.el that has nothing to do with CL apart from being a very poor try at offering SLIME capabilities to C hackers 13:17:57 hah 13:17:58 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:25 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.114.35.246] has joined #lisp 13:18:34 dim: trivia time! cscope was based on a Xerox program for Lisp called MasterScope. 13:18:51 So you have an elisp interface to a C program based on a Lisp program, maybe. 13:18:57 For inspecting C programs. 13:19:04 better than dynamic and lexical scope combined (: 13:19:06 awesome, now I know why I like it better than *tags solutions, there's some lisp history in there ;) thanks! 13:19:23 Xach: ...which contain a slow, bug-ridden [] implementation of half of common lisp! (: 13:19:38 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:20:01 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:15 well there's a newer xcscope like solution all written in elisp, called semantic bovinator, part of CEDET and nowadays included in Emacs (24.x)... but I coulnd't use it for the PostgreSQL sources 13:20:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:11 what I miss the most when hacking in C is C-M-x and C-x C-e and the auto-poping of the interactive debugger, that said 13:22:23 *Xach* has disturbing visions of vatican auto-poping 13:23:37 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:24:15 hi 13:24:56 lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 13:27:16 some typoes are better than other then, it seems :) 13:28:22 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:12 I'm still having some doubts regarding ECL 13:32:26 edmellum [~user@137.80-202-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:22 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:29 what kinds of doubts 13:34:49 it may not be divinely ordained by Thor after all 13:37:08 damn 13:37:43 sorry, I was tinkering it 13:37:58 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has quit [] 13:38:25 the problem is that I want to compile the Lisp code together with the C (or C++) code, and make it possible for one to call the other 13:38:37 for now, I'm creating a static lib for the Lisp code 13:39:33 so I'm only able to call Lisp from C. I'm not really sure if I can do the opposite 13:40:17 Denommus: what exactly are you trying to do? 13:40:25 Denommus: If you don't get good answers on #lisp, I know that the ecl lisp is very helpful and responsive. 13:40:28 have you tried the native inline C FFI, the native UFFI compatibility interface, or CFFI with it? 13:40:46 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:41:31 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:41:38 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:43:07 I also recommend the ecls-list mailing list 13:43:39 "list", not lisp, sorry. 13:44:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:44:40 i vaguely recall seeing mentions of using ECL api to call into lisp .. i assume this was Denommus .. presumably ECL also has an API for defining lisp functions that are backed by C functions 13:44:43 I think I'll use the mailing list, thanks 13:48:08 oh, using ffi:c-inline worked as it should. I was just doing something wrong before 13:48:10 thanks 13:49:22 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 13:51:48 mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:52:35 (the worst thing about googling ECL is forgetting about putting -eclipse at the end of the search) 13:53:19 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@213.57.224.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:29 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:36 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.55.45] has joined #lisp 13:55:48 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:56:32 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:42 hmm... 13:56:53 ponder ponder ... i don't like html 13:57:02 Does anyone happen to know which Lisp franz bought to rebrand as their initial Windows product? 13:58:16 -!- mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:21 Xach: Lucid? 13:58:26 hugod [~user@76.65.143.249] has joined #lisp 13:58:48 I don't think so. 13:58:51 I don't think it was their initial windows product though, they already had a windows product at that point. 13:59:10 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:59:44 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:01:31 eichelbart_ [~eichelbar@91-64-170-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:36 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:02:18 ph88 [2e2c9618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.44.150.24] has joined #lisp 14:02:26 -!- ph88 [2e2c9618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.44.150.24] has left #lisp 14:02:52 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:23 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:04:33 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:04:54 aqil [~aqil@91.191.197.245] has joined #lisp 14:06:41 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:13 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 I vaguely remember it having some wacky name like Mega PowerLisp or something 14:11:05 haha 14:11:46 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:47 -!- eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-64-170-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:47 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:47 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:47 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:47 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:47 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [*.net 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DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:06 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:18:27 Xach, Procyon Lisp, later combined with Allegro 14:18:39 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:45 -!- 02HAAAABD is now known as tomaw 14:18:51 rszeno: thank you! 14:19:07 you are wellcome, :) 14:19:42 is in their history page, http://www.franz.com/about/company.history.lhtml 14:22:08 -!- Corvidium 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tensorpudding 14:49:47 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 14:49:48 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 14:50:21 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:50:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:50:57 -!- dtw-2 is now known as dtw 14:51:13 Is there any difference between (append ...) and (concatenate 'list ...)? 14:51:18 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:51:21 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 append is shorter 14:51:31 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:31 -!- aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:46 aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has joined #lisp 14:51:52 append only takes lists 14:51:57 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:149b:75c6:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 14:52:11 Sure, but they do absolutely the same, right? 14:52:26 hitecnologys, concatenate copies all the sequences. 14:52:32 hitecnologys: you can only be sure if you look at what your compiler produces. 14:52:51 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:51 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:51 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:58 hitecnologys: it is possible that append is also faster because it does not do any runtime dispatching. that could vary between implementations. 14:52:58 hitecnologys, append doesn't copy the last one. 14:52:58 ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 14:52:58 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:52:58 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 14:53:04 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:13 peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-82-174-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 14:53:18 (append '(1) "") => (a . ""). (concatenate 'list '(1) "") => (1) 14:53:19 ah, nice. 14:53:43 er, (1 . "") 14:55:11 Ok, I'd better use append then because it just looks better in code. 14:55:40 Thanks. 14:55:44 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:56:34 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.36.221] has joined #lisp 14:56:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:15 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 14:57:17 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:57:30 Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:58:09 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 14:58:17 dtw: thank you for pointing that out, i did not know it. that is a potential source for serious bugs :( 14:58:34 -!- edgar-rftx [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: guru meditation] 14:58:49 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.223.166] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.47.59] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:59:51 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:59:51 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:51 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 15:00:10 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-hlcpiuqbbsqzxmzj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:13 wow, my boss loved my ideas regarding using Lisp as a scripting language 15:00:28 "All it will take is $200" "WHAT!" 15:00:29 he is a bit turn down by the language, because he finds it ugly, but he loved the possible results 15:00:31 lisp is terrible as a scripting language 15:00:32 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:56 zorkmoid: ECL is not giving me any problems 15:01:00 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:01:02 only... learning it 15:01:57 Denommus: ECL isn't very suitable for scripting 15:02:51 zorkmoid: we need a declarative language embedded in C++. It doesn't need to be interpreted. Being compiled is actually a good thing for us 15:03:01 it is good if you want to talk to C stuff though 15:03:33 -!- karswell` [~user@87.114.18.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:04:43 zorkmoid: why not? It also has a bytecode interpreter, and all the lisp dynamicity for interactive development (rapid prototyping etc) 15:05:01 karswell [~user@87.112.209.214] has joined #lisp 15:05:34 xcl ? 15:05:36 if you mean shell scripting well then a shell indeed suits better though 15:05:45 phadthai: all of which is useful if you are developing big applications, not some toy scripts 15:05:46 Khaoz [bb212912@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.33.41.18] has joined #lisp 15:06:01 phadthai: funny thing: I still didn't manage to use the embedded interpreter. I'm compiling a static library and linking to my project 15:06:24 zorkmoid: I'm not talking about toy scripts. I'm talking about embedded scripting. Like game scripts, not shell scripts 15:06:35 Denommus: functions using the ECL inline FFI need to be compiled of course, but the interpreter can call those functions 15:06:47 Denommus: what is a "game script"? 15:06:58 oudeis [~oudeis@213.57.224.50] has joined #lisp 15:07:00 cheats! 15:07:03 I personally find slime and lisp fine for toying too 15:07:03 lol 15:07:12 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:32 zorkmoid: usually a game is made in a high-performance language, but the gameplay is made in a high-level language 15:07:39 zorkmoid: this is also called "scripting" 15:07:43 Denommus: so what you are looking for is a DSL. 15:07:46 not a script. 15:08:14 anyway 15:08:29 zorkmoid: well, scripting is what people on the gamedev world say it. But yeah, I'm doing a DSL for game development, and my boss really liked the idea 15:09:08 -!- Gr1zzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-342-84.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:09:47 a dsl if necessary, and scripts using that dsl? :) 15:09:54 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:02 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:10:20 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:47 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:10:50 I'm inspiring myself on Naughty Dog's state-script language and QML 15:10:59 i wonder if i should change testing framework ... 15:11:44 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:36 You could try a new one per day and still not finish in 2013 15:12:51 -!- Khaoz [bb212912@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.33.41.18] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:13:01 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@213.57.224.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:14:43 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:51 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:16:13 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:16:14 haha 15:16:28 i don't like the one i have been using for the past two years ... 15:16:42 it is hard to test input and output 15:17:09 ehu [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has joined #lisp 15:17:36 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.147] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:31 ehu` [~Erik@109.37.166.229] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 tester in franz is nice... kinda... but still input/output is annoying 15:20:18 ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 15:20:49 -!- alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:21:06 alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:24:03 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-22-147.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:13 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:42 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:25:48 How can I make write-to-string to write symbols in lowercase? 15:26:33 set *print-case*? 15:26:49 hitecnologys: there are several ways. one easy way is (write-to-string 'foo :case :downcase) 15:27:05 or that. 15:27:10 (defgeneric to-string ) 15:27:13 Crap 15:27:38 zorkmoid: should you test input and output, though? 15:27:46 (let ((*print-case* :downcase)) (write-to-string 'TEST)) setting *print-case* seems to work, thnks 15:27:57 Denommus: yes 15:28:07 hitecnologys: xach suggestion is far better 15:28:19 zorkmoid: why? Wouldn't it be better to test the functional/encapsulated part of your code? 15:28:24 unless you need to call write-to-string a billion times 15:28:29 zorkmoid: input and output should be in the higher levels of the code 15:28:30 -!- em-bee is now known as embee 15:28:52 zorkmoid: ok, I'll try this 15:29:30 Denommus: sometimes you need to test input/output. 15:29:57 shwouchk__ [~user@bzq-82-81-119-212.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:02 zorkmoid: I think you're right 15:30:22 What is :level for? It doesn't change anything when I change it. 15:31:05 hitecnologys: see http://l1sp.org/cl/*print-level* 15:31:33 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:31:38 hello 15:31:39 Xach: thanks a lot again, sorry for stupid questions =P 15:32:11 hitecnologys: Don't worry about it. It's only annoying if you don't learn anything from them and ask the same class of questions over and over. 15:32:11 What would you change in the following function, to make it appear better/be clearer/more lispy?: http://nopaste.info/162f9f18ef.html 15:32:19 hitecnologys: you should try to check the hyperspec whenever this kind of doubt appears 15:32:55 shwouchk__: I would consider PUSHNEW instead of your UNLESS/CONS setup 15:33:14 Denommus: I just didn't find any level description there so I decided to make sure *print-level* is what I was looking for. 15:33:17 Xach: sounds right, I didn't know about this function 15:33:27 hitecnologys: ok 15:33:34 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 15:33:46 shwouchk__: why are you parsing HTML with regexes? 15:34:44 nooooooooooooo 15:34:47 good question .. and i'd use &aux as well 15:35:14 I wish there was a term for the style of CL that has cropped up since 2005 or so 15:35:34 Whatever it is called, &aux is not all that common if you learned CL in that timeframe. 15:35:35 &aux is deprecated, isn't it? 15:35:40 hitecnologys: Not really. 15:35:43 Xach: uncommon lisp? :-) 15:35:52 Denommus: because 1. I don't know of a better lisp library to do this, 2. it is simple and it works (tm) 3. I don't want to study the structure of this document that is large and full of javascript too deeply. I'm open to hearing specific suggestions however. 15:36:22 schoppenhauer: closure-html + cxml are what i use when i process html, usually. 15:36:24 xach: i started using &aux some time ago. 15:36:29 sorry, shwouchk__ 15:36:33 hitecnologys: what makes you think that &aux is deprecated? 15:36:33 Xach: hooray, now I can officially use it insted of this ugly let! 15:36:37 shwouchk__: it's not simple and it does not work, specially when you have a large document 15:36:40 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:43 I thought it was ugly at first, but see the benefits now. 15:36:45 ehu`: Me too, but I don't see it very often. 15:36:48 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:36:54 hitecnologys: nothing in the standard says anything like that... 15:37:06 zorkmoid: I just heard about it some times 15:37:18 true. it's definitely uncommon. 15:37:27 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj157.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:37:34 shwouchk__: this SO answer explain better than me: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags 15:37:35 zorkmoid: and I didn't found proper decription of what it does so I thought is was deprecated 15:37:37 nod ... pitty, since it makes code easier to read 15:37:41 noughty lisp. 15:37:45 hitecnologys: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_dae.htm 15:38:33 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-193-124.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:38:36 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:04 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:39:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD216C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:39:37 shwouchk__: in general, regexps can't match any nested construct correctly 15:39:44 Denommus: the answer is awesome 15:40:12 luis` [~luis@kerno.org] has joined #lisp 15:40:14 hitecnologys: it's one of the most classic answers of the site 15:40:19 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:40:21 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:40:41 shwouchk__ is dead, I took over his body and soul 15:40:44 davorb_ [~davor@194.47.245.35] has joined #lisp 15:40:46 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 15:40:51 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:51 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:40:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:41:05 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 15:41:05 zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 Denommus: I didn't know that, I just don't read stackoverflow much, sorry 15:41:11 shwouchk: the link is still valid, though 15:41:18 quackv5_ [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:21 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:21 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:41:45 hitecnologys: calm down, I didn't mean to dimish you. It was just an observation :) 15:41:53 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:01 Denommus: ok 15:42:03 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:42:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:11 arkx_ [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has joined #lisp 15:42:16 fds_ [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:42:23 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:23 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:42:25 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:33 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:42:49 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:56 Xach: do you have any statistics over how often &aux is actually used? 15:43:46 Denommus: Thanks for the advice. That being said, 1. The link, although I have not fully read it, is very general and so is your statement. While the statement might *generally* be correct, it does not mean it is correct for every case. 2. again thanks for the advice but unless you advise me on a specific alternative, it seems I have no alternative. 15:44:03 tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:03 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:44:08 -!- antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:11 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:25 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 15:45:02 shwouchk: regexes may work for known subsets of HTML. You're saying that it is a large document that you don't know the content. You should use a parser instead 15:45:38 fortitude: what's better than "<(a|A)[^>]*" for matching a links for instance? 15:45:47 Denommus: I repeat #2. 15:46:10 shwouchk: how does chtml not fit your bill? 15:46:22 Denommus: the fact that I don't want to study the content very deeply does not mean I have not seen and understood the content generally 15:46:25 -!- shwouchk__ [~user@bzq-82-81-119-212.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:26 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:26 -!- knob9876 [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:26 -!- drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:27 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:27 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:27 -!- arkx [~aku@eagleflow.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:27 -!- rabite_ [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:27 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:27 -!- quackv5 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:28 -!- tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:28 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:28 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:28 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:28 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:29 -!- davorb [~davor@194.47.245.35] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:29 -!- expez [~expez@expez.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:46:29 shwouchk: I didn't advice an alternative because someone else already did. Closure-html + cxml 15:46:30 H4ns: I never said it doesn't 15:46:52 shwouchk: and you asked for style advice. there you have it: don't use regular expressions to parse html. 15:47:05 Xach: thanks also. 15:47:27 I will not insist on this matter. Be advised, though 15:47:28 shwouchk: it will work as long as you don't have nesting: you can match
foo
, but not
foo...
without getting into troubly 15:47:30 H4ns: Let me be more specific. I want *positive* style advice. 15:47:42 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 15:47:55 scharan: that is positive style advice, you cannot parse html using a regexp. 15:48:00 shwouchk: (balanced) nested expressions aren't in the class of regular languages 15:48:00 which is what regexps match 15:48:12 H4ns: meaning a suggestion of what to do rather than what not to do 15:48:13 tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 15:48:22 shwouchk: use chtml and cxml 15:48:24 scharan: take the following: 15:48:28 shwouchk: that's what you should do 15:48:39 zorkmoid: you're missing his nickname 15:48:45 woops 15:48:53 shwouchk: ^^ 15:49:00 Denommus: thanks 15:49:51 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 shwouchk: is there a reason why you can't use do-matches-as-strings? 15:49:51 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:50:05 zorkmoid: it is a good counterexample, but unfortunately the page I'm parsing does not have weird constructs like that. 15:50:25 shwouchk: i find the code impossible to read without deeply consulting the cl-ppcre manual, which is something that i would like to avoid when reading code. 15:50:28 H4ns: also probably not. I don't know about that function 15:50:42 shwouchk: see, you should read the cl-ppcre manual. 15:50:57 shwouchk: you are looking for advice on better style, do not parse structured text with regexps. arguing that your input data happens to fall withion the frame of things that works is non-essential. 15:51:04 shwouchk: do-matches-as-strings will make the whole thing much clearer. 15:52:03 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:03 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:52:26 H4ns: is it a cl-ppcre function? can't find it in clhs 15:52:26 shwouchk: and if it does not, there are almost certainly ways in to use cl-ppcre without the aref crap that you're doing. 15:52:46 shwouchk: cl-ppcre is not documented in the clhs 15:52:53 shwouchk: google cl-ppcre. first hit. 15:52:58 H4ns: probably, but that's why I came here. No need to use foul language 15:53:03 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:03 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:53:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-82-174-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:15 shwouchk: thank you for educating me! 15:54:07 foul language? :-) 15:54:08 again, I'll not insist on this matter 15:54:08 15:54:10 H4ns: I asked whether the function is from cl-ppcre or from the standard library. That was my fucking question. 15:54:13 expez [~expez@expez.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:22 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 15:54:44 shwouchk: go away. 15:55:01 instead, I'll ask something different. Is call-next-method declared with labels in the expansion of the defmethod macro? 15:55:11 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:11 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:55:15 Denommus: d 15:55:21 Denommus: the defmethod macro? 15:55:51 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:56 Denommus: it might be, depending on the implementation of defmethod. 15:55:57 Denommus: never mind. 15:55:57 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 my question is more about: if I want a macro to exist only inside of the expansion of another macro, should I use macrolet? 15:56:52 ok everyone, *FORGET ABOUT* the regex thing. I know what the purpose of the matching was and that the way I did it would work. Perhaps next time I would use some html library. That was not the purpose of the question, and I agree that regex is not the best tool for the job (although it does work in my case). 15:57:28 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgakhetefznsvddo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:49 shwouchk: I can't help you. Sorry. 15:57:53 Denommus: yes 15:57:54 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:58:28 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlcuuusdoiyerbln] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:59 Denommus: (macrolet ((foo () ...)) (defmacro bar () (foo))) or whatever 15:59:12 Denommus: or just use packages, and only export bar 15:59:18 which is a bit nicer 15:59:29 -!- zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:00:07 -!- alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:00:07 shwouchk: you could use pushnew instead of member then push 16:00:50 zorkmoid: hm. No, that's not what I'm thinking. I wasn't really acurate, sorry 16:01:24 zorkmoid: I will provide an example 16:02:01 (defmacro foo (&body) ...) (foo (bar)). Bar is a macro, but it only exists inside of the body of foo 16:02:10 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:02:37 yes .. 16:02:50 (that code is invalid in many aspects) 16:02:51 should it be (defmacro foo (&body) `(macrolet ((bar () ...)) ... @,body ...))? 16:03:11 zorkmoid: consider it a pseudo-code :) 16:03:22 I fucked ,@ up 16:03:33 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:58 if you want BAR to be some user accessible macro inside of FOO, then yes .. something like that. 16:03:59 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 16:04:07 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:16 anaphoric functions tend to use that .. 16:04:27 like uhm ... alexandria, and uhm look at with-it-environment 16:04:58 call-next-method is similar to it. But it is a function, instead of a macro 16:04:59 uhm, change that to anaphoric 16:05:13 I'm going to lunch, thanks 16:05:32 Denommus: right, so .. (defmacro defmethod ( .... ) `(flet ((call-next-method (...) ...)) ....)) 16:05:38 or whatever 16:06:09 Denommus: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1733489 16:06:27 -!- luis` is now known as luis 16:07:02 bobbysmith007: thanks, Xach already said it and it is very good advice 16:07:14 -!- arkx_ is now known as arkx 16:08:38 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 16:10:56 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-eewbzmlatizvmvam] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:11:03 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:36 here is a simple implementation of a sort of jump table i wrote for another application. For large tables, it is much faster than SBCL's CASE, but it only supports a special case of CASE: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/b5029e29c5ac08fa720d1c288af8e1b3e4a3c7d5/jump.lisp?at=default 16:12:51 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 -!- kornbluth.freenode.net has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 16:12:54 -!- Harag1 [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:55 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:07 Harag 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timeout: 248 seconds] 16:48:41 an extremely large number of commits are being pushed to sicl regularly, in recent weeks 16:50:00 and also jscl 16:51:15 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:57 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:07 -!- PuercoPop [~user@jane-street-capital-llc.gigabitethernet7-7.asr1.jfk1.gblx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:52:30 yati_ [~yati@122.169.83.41] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 -!- yati [~yati@122.169.89.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:26 -!- alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:59:39 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.199] has joined #lisp 17:03:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-94-45.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:03:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:54 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 17:05:08 more sophisticated jump table: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/fe2d5f14b4f44973dab3722e10222f39e1f796ee/jump.lisp?at=default 17:06:10 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:07:32 Could somebody tell me why the marked if statement in line 8 'always' returns true? It shouldn't do so after remember-user has been called because this function adds a key to the hash table and the if clause should just check if that key is present... http://sprunge.us/NPCK?cl 17:08:25 nmeum, where is your hash table definition? 17:10:37 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:55 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:11:02 i.e. where is *PEOPLE* defined? 17:11:15 Quadrescence: I didn't paste it but it's there before the first function definition it looks like this: (defparameter *people* (make-hash-table)) 17:11:38 nmeum, try (make-hash-table :test 'equal) 17:12:40 so shwouchk linked to an answer that said exactly what I said him 17:12:47 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 17:13:30 kpreid_ [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 Quadrescence: that seems to work...could you explain what your suggested change does? 17:13:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:02 s0ber_ [~s0ber@1-164-210-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:05 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d814a65.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:05 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:14:24 tankrim` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:14:34 nmeum, did you get my last message? 17:14:39 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:39 ASau` [~user@p5797F3AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:41 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:14:59 namely: nmeum, try (make-hash-table :test 'equal) 17:15:19 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:24 BitPuffin_ [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:15:27 milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 17:15:45 Quadrescence: yes, I got that: It seems to work...but could you explain what this change does? 17:16:02 nmeum, by default, hash tables use EQL to compare keys 17:16:20 strings that have the same characters are not necessarily EQL to each other 17:16:20 ah 17:16:48 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-efkrcwxwbhgaiuow] has joined #lisp 17:16:50 stepnem_ [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 17:16:54 so you can do (gethash "x" table) (gethash "x" table) and get two different values 17:17:05 bejer_ [~bejer@1508892794.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:17:12 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 17:17:22 sid_cyph1r [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 17:17:22 aeth_ [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 17:17:33 balle_ [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 17:17:38 ramus_ [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:40 lusory_ [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 17:17:59 fantazo_ 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has joined #lisp 17:29:39 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:29:55 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 naeg_ [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:31:58 -!- ykm [~ykm@182.237.171.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:32:00 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 17:32:14 ykm [~ykm@182.237.171.97] has joined #lisp 17:32:40 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.190.124.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:08 -!- ykm [~ykm@182.237.171.97] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:18 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 17:37:15 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:42:00 aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:19 I have a hard time deciding when I should unsafely put declarations in macros, which would speed them up, where the user of the macro can't reasonably do so 17:49:02 Quadrescence: do it based ont he current declaimation 17:49:33 types won't get inferred better just because of a declaration 17:49:50 I think you misunderstand 17:49:59 -!- tychoish is now known as tycho 17:50:02 Quadrescence: If the macro has an &body, you can use whatever the Alexandria function is to separate the decls/doc/forms and put them each in the appropriate place. 17:50:04 oh okay i understand 17:50:09 your macro should only include the unsafe declarations if SAFETY is declaimed to 0 17:50:16 loke, ^ 17:50:45 good use of POLICY-COND i suppose 17:50:59 Yeah 17:51:02 exactly that 17:51:14 Pretty much the only use I can think of :-) 17:51:19 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 17:51:19 -!- yati_ [~yati@122.169.83.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:57 well another use of it was to have different versions of functions. While that is a slight maintainability nightmare, it kind of sucks when you write FOO-FAST, FOO-DEBUGGABLE, and FOO-SAFE 17:52:13 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:55:36 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-civwiwndgqwbiewa] has joined #lisp 17:55:49 zickzackv [~faot@n80-237-234-152.cnet.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:14 Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has joined #lisp 17:56:47 Quadrescence: fair enough 17:56:54 I doubt I'd do that myself though 17:57:12 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:16 which part? the macro stuff or the different function versions? 17:58:34 different function versions 17:58:38 Anyway 17:58:58 time for me to go to sleep. Or at least try to. It's 02:00 here but I'm jetlagged and thus don't feel tired 18:02:01 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlsegivcdivzitla] has joined #lisp 18:02:59 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 18:03:36 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:03:39 hello, I was wondering how read works, because if I put in read macro, the sexpr is broken... 18:03:58 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:04:12 then maybe your read macro is broken 18:04:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137778 18:04:26 Ener2: what are you trying to do? 18:04:56 Denommus: <% (print %> 4 <% ) %> 18:05:03 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.190.124.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:05:10 it will fail with unmatched parenthesis 18:05:14 :| 18:05:29 what is that supposed to result with? 18:05:48 And do you mean %< ? 18:05:54 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:03 (web-progn "" (print 18:06:07 he wants to embed Common Lisp in HTML 18:06:27 (web-progn "" (print (web-progn "4"))) 18:06:30 something like this 18:08:16 this works fine if code within <% %> does not have unmatched expression 18:08:19 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 18:09:42 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:00 Ener2, when the reader reaches (, it also wants to do things, such as read a list 18:10:09 -!- loke [~user@bb219-74-48-169.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:45 Quadrescence: sure, but when it finds %>, it should call my web-read, which will eat everything up to ) in stream 18:10:51 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:10:52 (or to anything really) 18:10:57 which then should be available to reader 18:11:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:50 Ener2, can you confirm that this is indeed the syntax you mean: <% (print %> 4 <% ) %> 18:12:01 Quadrescence: yes 18:12:04 for instance 18:12:14 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.241.50] has joined #lisp 18:12:16 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:12:32 <% (loop for x from 0 to 10 do (print %> ten <% )) %> 18:12:43 should "print" to the result 10 times ten 18:12:54 your macro character looks behind in the stream? 18:13:17 it should? 18:13:22 I only look forward in stream 18:13:37 if #\% is followed by #\> 18:13:53 then when the reader hits <, it's going to make the symbol "<", unless you do something special, like put a % before it 18:14:08 that is fine 18:14:19 it stars in web-read mode 18:14:26 ie it will read to strings 18:14:38 then, once it founds first time <% 18:14:46 then it reads expressions in normal lisp mode 18:15:01 which, if it is complete, will follow with original web-read 18:15:07 or if it has found %> 18:15:31 it will switch into web-read (new call) 18:15:38 which will again, eat anything "html" 18:15:54 you are saying that "<%", the start of our input, should be read as: (a) the symbol "<", (b) the macro character %? 18:16:26 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:29 it should not 18:16:35 (hopefully) 18:16:51 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:17:21 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:17:37 again, it should start in web-read, which is normal reader to string 18:17:43 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:50 after it finds <%, then it calls for lisp reader 18:18:10 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 18:18:14 okay, it finds <%, and the lisp reader encounters ( 18:18:19 yes 18:18:35 then it will find % 18:18:36 does common lisp use STM ? 18:18:46 ph88: no 18:18:47 which is call to the reader macro function 18:18:52 which will check for > 18:18:55 and if it is there 18:18:59 it will call web-read 18:19:17 what can be used to do async programming in common lisp ? 18:19:42 ph88: cl-async for example 18:20:48 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@95.35.54.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:48 oki thx 18:21:25 Quadrescence: what I dont get is, why, after returning from web-read, it should have ) in stream, which should close the (print ... 18:21:35 but instead it complains about unmatched parenthesis 18:21:53 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 18:22:28 -!- ramus_ is now known as ramus 18:22:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:31 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 18:24:46 hmm okay, nvm I didnt think it thru 18:24:49 I fixed it 18:25:02 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-efkrcwxwbhgaiuow] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:15 -!- zickzackv [~faot@n80-237-234-152.cnet.hosteurope.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:26:58 my head is swarming with ideas for my DSL. But I'm blocked, for some reason. That's making me distressed 18:27:31 Take a nice, refreshing troll down memory lane and read old Lisp usenet articles 18:27:34 "stroll", rather 18:28:56 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:43 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 18:31:45 drmeister [~drmeister@d205-250-223-135.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:00 ha 18:32:27 he 18:33:56 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:35:49 ASau` [~user@p5797FF73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:03 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F3AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:26 pjb1 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-250-111.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:37:40 Oh, wow, something interesting is going on here. What did I miss? 18:37:55 -!- pjb1 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-250-111.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:45 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:38:51 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-250-111.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:39:09 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-250-111.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:39:14 So I've been thinking about TAGBODY/GO in preparation of implementing them correctly in both my interpreter and compiler and it appears to me that GO needs to be preprocessed even in an interpreter. 18:39:31 Eg: (tagbody (setq *a* #'(lambda () (print "func") (go XXX))) (tagbody (print "inner") (funcall *a*) XXX (print "skip me")) XXX (print "done")) 18:40:20 well, preprocessed may be a big word. You need to keep track of the scopes of the labels. 18:40:23 Denommus: I have frequently encountered that problem when I am taking on something that is complex and requires making multiple interconnected decisions in order to move forward. It might help to write everything that you're thinking about down as though you were explaining your decisions to someone else. It can also help to identify all of the choices you have, and then start deciding the easy ones first. Another thing that helps is to start writing what you wan 18:40:36 drmeister: why? 18:40:50 you can do tagbody/go with throw and catch 18:40:50 You know - as soon as I pasted that code I realized that what I was thinking is incorrect. 18:40:54 Ener2: funcall *a* skips out to the xxx in the outer tagbody. 18:41:10 new: writing the ideas is good, indeed 18:41:14 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jwpqxlxdvscueufb] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 I'm thinking about how is the best way of representing a state 18:41:23 The (go XXX) just needs to close over the environment created by the outer TAGBODY - douuugh! 18:41:31 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 18:41:46 there is implementation of tagbody/go with throw/catch 18:41:48 I mean the FUNCTION closes over the environment and the GO has access to it. 18:41:58 maybe a hash-table. The key is the name of the state, the value is a function representing what that state should do 18:42:38 Denommus, what are you talking about? 18:42:45 Ener2: I know - I'm trying to implement tagbody/go without resorting to metacircular programming for future optimization. 18:42:55 drmeister: well then, dunno 18:42:59 I have my own compiler in c 18:43:09 which even for evaluated code compiles bytecode 18:43:12 Denommus: if you start by writing examples in your DSL then you'll have some more concrete ideas of how different things (including state) need to be implemented 18:43:24 Quadrescence: I'm making a embedded DSL in a game. For now, its main purpose will be representing states and state transitions. More or less like QML 18:43:46 I don't know what QML is, but I do know what a state machine is. 18:44:05 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:44:27 Denommus: in my experience it is often faster to do the simplest, stupidest solution first and then fix it later when necessary, as compared to trying to get everything right ahead of time 18:44:35 Deenommus, sxhash? 18:44:41 Quadrescence: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qml-tutorial3.html 18:44:41 Ener2: Is your compiler a CL compiler? 18:44:43 Denommus: so, the only thing you need to do is store and change states? 18:44:47 -!- aqil [~aqil@91.191.197.245] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 18:45:01 drmeister: will be, one day :D 18:45:10 I mean I have compiler, not yet the vm 18:45:28 Denommus: the less code you write, the less you'll have to change when you realize why you should have done it a different way later :-) 18:45:42 Denommus: so do just enough to make it barely work 18:45:46 hitecnologys: for now, yes. Basically. It must make something while on a given state, and do something else while changing state 18:45:50 Use LLVM - it's awesome. 18:45:59 Denommus, do you know what you want your DSL to look like at all? 18:46:24 Quadrescence: yes 18:46:44 Denommus, and what's that? 18:47:24 Denommus: I have some sketches of something like this for my text game but dropped it due to lack of time. 18:47:26 Quadrescence: something similar to Naughty Dog's state scripting: http://www.gameenginebook.com/gdc09-statescripting-uncharted2.pdf 18:48:03 Denommus, wait, when you say DSL, do you mean a very large language, or something restricted to specifying state machines? 18:48:25 I'm going to sketch it on a paper, now 18:48:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.77.101] has joined #lisp 18:48:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.77.101] has quit [Changing host] 18:48:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:48:57 Quadrescence: for now, something to specify a state machine and how the thing in question should behave while in this machine 18:49:08 Denommus: I needed to schedule some events in order to implement some things so I wrote some kind of queue or something and function that checked if something happened and then if it did it executed some function binded to it. 18:49:15 Quadrescence: and also how it should behave while changing the state 18:49:19 okay, then i suggest you write some examples out that you want to be able to implement 18:49:37 hitecnologys: like signal handling? 18:49:54 Denommus: something like thins. 18:50:05 s/thins/this/ 18:50:21 I think I have a good idea of how it should look like. What I'm blocked is how the generated code should look like. But it's just a temporary block, don't worry 18:50:22 :) 18:51:30 Is there any way to get a reader macro to insert characters into the stream that's being read? 18:51:43 I thought about using UNREAD-CHAR, but apparently you can only call that once 18:52:20 fortitude: do you want to do something like CL-INTERPOL? 18:52:23 fortitude: that's why it's a *reader* macro. 18:52:39 fortitude: but tell us what you're trying to achieve... 18:53:47 I'm compiling C-style preprocessor code to lisp 18:53:51 and wondering how close I can get the mapping 18:54:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:54:30 -!- bejer_ is now known as bejer 18:54:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:54:44 what sorts of preprocessor things are missing in lisp? 18:54:58 or are you mostly concerned with cpp syntax? 18:55:15 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:55:16 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:03 Quadrescence: the really ugly ones, like having forms that are only valid after preprocessing 18:56:30 fortitude, substitute? 18:57:28 rszeno: that works for doing the preprocessing 18:57:59 rszeno: I'm just wondering if I can get away with preserving the preprocessing declarations, if that makes any sense 18:58:19 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:16 something like (let ((b "c d)")) (read "(a b #.b"))) -> '(a b c d), as gross as that is 18:59:50 is this just an academic exercise or are you solving any real problem? 18:59:54 read's eval doesn't scope like that 19:00:22 Bike: I figured, it was a faked example to get the idea across 19:00:50 you could like, (read-from-string (concatenate 'string "(a b " b)) i guess 19:00:50 Quadrescence: mostly academic. I'm compiling code that has that kind of preprocessing in it to lisp 19:01:05 it shouldn't happen often enough to really be a problem 19:01:35 is there a difference between cl-interpol evaluating an octal-code (such as #?/[\0-\237]/), and then passing this as a regex to cl-ppcre, vs. passing cl-ppcre the unevaluated octal-code, such as "[\\0-\\237]"? 19:01:49 well if it's C preprocessor you can do it all at read time, surely. Or just have #define foo bar -> (define-symbol-macro foo bar) 19:01:57 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jwpqxlxdvscueufb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:29 Bike: except the C preprocessor will let you do something like #define FOO bar) int myfunc(int i, FOO {}, iirc 19:02:37 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:50 most of the stuff I'm reading can be done with symbol-macros and the like 19:03:00 I should probably just expand the rest 19:03:11 oh, right, like all the "#define START do {" sorts of things 19:03:17 yep 19:03:39 Denommus, for what it's worth, the macro I just wrote called JUMP is probably good for implementing state machines 19:04:11 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-banjguuchmsgmtsp] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 i... maybe you could do something horrid with a read macro on S 19:04:45 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 19:05:25 Bike: I though you could have a reader macro that would push the expansion chars onto the stream and return no value (thus returning to the calling reader) 19:05:28 but no dice 19:05:49 -!- daem0n` is now known as daem0n 19:05:50 Quadrescence: there's lots of problems related with my state machine. I think the biggest one is that it must represent the state of a C++ class 19:05:51 -!- daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:51 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 19:06:39 -!- aeth_ is now known as aeth 19:07:37 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:06 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:09 Is there a way to clean-up unneeded packages in quicklisp? 19:10:34 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 19:10:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.77.101] has joined #lisp 19:10:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.77.101] has quit [Changing host] 19:10:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:11:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:12:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:01 -!- ISF is now known as sergiosdj 19:13:12 -!- sergiosdj is now known as ISF 19:13:36 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:14:04 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:59 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-156-66.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 19:18:01 is there any lisp dialect that is still being maintained ? 19:18:11 ph88: yes, many 19:18:18 but not common lisp ? 19:18:48 ph88: What do you mean by "maintain a dialect"? 19:18:52 -!- reb```` is now known as reb 19:19:24 i read "Common Lisp the standard is no-longer being maintained and I don't think anyone will take up the job of updating the humongous standard that it is" 19:19:58 Ahh, is anyone working on Common Lisp 2014? No one is working on that. 19:20:10 not that i know of o_O 19:20:25 Fortunately, it's easy to extent language's functionality with libraries. 19:20:29 so maybe other dialects will have continuoation for the future ? 19:21:04 ph88: I think you are under the impression that lack of language change is bad. That's not always the case. 19:21:22 ph88: Lisps classically haven't needed a change in spec to incorporate new features. 19:21:38 Macros ftw 19:21:44 reb: if you use libraries you can't be sure your code will run everywhere because libraries can be incompatible with some compilers. That's why we need standards. 19:21:56 the alternative is using a language that changes rapidly... 19:22:04 it's a much much worse world than dealing with something stable. 19:22:09 (e.g. rust) 19:22:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-229-86.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 19:22:34 ph88: c++ just included LAMBDA. We've had that since long 19:22:56 a broken, bad lambda 19:23:00 so it's active and catching up 19:23:02 hitecnologys: I tend to use SBCL, CCL, ABCL, and CLISP. The libraries I use work fine on all of them. 19:23:03 (in C++, not Lisp) 19:23:50 ph88: C++ is not "catching up". The languages are very very different. 19:23:56 ph88: we've had it very long, so we don't need to catch up. 19:24:47 reb: me too, but anyway you can't be completely sure that next update of library won't break anything. That's why compilers sometimes include features from some libraries. 19:24:50 ph88: You also appear to assume that a language is simple a collection of features. Now that C++ has lambdas it's "closer" to Lisp. That's not how it works. 19:25:00 s/simple/simply 19:26:16 Quadrescence: I wish to know: what's so bad about C++ lambda? 19:26:46 it doesn't have lexical scope, doesn't produce proper closures 19:26:54 as long as it's a lambda it seems good 19:26:55 well, it "has" "lexical" scope 19:27:00 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:27:03 isn't that what [] is for? 19:27:05 hitecnologys: I agree that standards are nice, but somehow people get along without them. Just use one Lisp and pretend, as Python programmers do, that it's the "standard" Lisp. 19:27:28 Denommus, yes 19:27:56 reb: sure 19:27:56 -!- aw|sovereign_ is now known as aw|sovereign 19:28:04 so you must explicitly capture the environment, but there's all this wizardry to do that correctly. for example, with mutable state 19:28:36 Quadrescence: mutable state is an issue to be considered in any language that allows it 19:28:49 what do you mean? 19:29:07 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 I mean that it can always have problems surrouding it 19:29:34 Denommus: mutable state is not an issue. Programmer is an issue. 19:29:40 what problems surround mutable state in lisp? 19:30:18 Programmer makes mistakes, not states or compilers (usually). 19:30:41 hitecnologys: it's an issue in the sense that there are things you must consider when using it. Good programmers take these things into consideration. Bad programmers either run away from it or ignore it 19:31:35 that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about 19:32:08 also, with C++ closures, reclaiming memory is an issue 19:32:11 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:32:16 Quadrescence: so can you be more specific? What kind of issues you had with C++'s lambdas? (It's an honest question, I still didn't use them) 19:32:17 Denommus: anyway, you can't get rid of mutability because it's just how computer works. You can isolate it in highly contrallable environment, however. 19:32:37 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:44 hitecnologys: I know 19:33:12 Denommus, if i recall correctly, i was trying to make the equivalent of (define (make-counter) (let ((counter 0)) (lambda () (set! counter (+ 1 counter  bla bla bla 19:33:32 I think I eventually did get it, but no one could tell me how to properly reclaim memory after they're created. 19:33:53 -!- Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130518125154]] 19:34:47 [=]() mutable {count++;}; ... 19:34:54 that sure looks like brilliant design 19:34:59 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 19:35:18 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:03 mhbauer [user@nat/ibm/x-cytrhhtkehnwwkba] has joined #lisp 19:36:38 -!- trebor_d` [~user@153.96.244.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:36:43 I can't understand why we still haven't design the system that will automatically deal with all multi-threading problems. 19:36:55 s/design/disigned/ 19:37:18 yrk [~user@rrcs-64-183-198-243.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:28 -!- yrk [~user@rrcs-64-183-198-243.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:37:28 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 19:37:42 hitecnologys: I can't understand why we didn't solve the travelling salesman problem 19:37:59 *rszeno* because doesn't fit in the input/output model, :) 19:38:17 Denommus: I thought we solved it, didn't we? 19:38:28 hitecnologys: yes, but no. 19:38:49 Denommus: we solved it for some specific configuration, right? 19:38:58 the algorithm is either too slow or imprecise 19:39:32 -!- tankrim` is now known as tankrim 19:39:34 Ah, I see. 19:40:33 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:40:58 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 19:42:25 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:42:50 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:44:45 because all you do is theoretize about it! pack your suitcases and get on the road, damnit! 19:45:41 sirdancealot: I don't have enough knowledge to do it 19:47:45 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:51:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@d205-250-223-135.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:14 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-229.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:57 How do I properly add newline to string? 19:54:16 -!- aw|sovereign [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Quit: Reboot.] 19:54:22 (concatenate 'string string (string #\Newline)) looks so wrong. 19:54:49 (format nil "~s~&" string) ? 19:55:05 ~% 19:55:34 (with-output-to-string(blah) (blah blah (format blah "..... 19:56:00 err 19:56:00 I just thought format is too powerful for this. 19:56:10 don't take the blah by word! 19:56:51 no you have to use with-output-to-string! 19:57:15 Thanks for information. 19:57:35 (coerce (concatenate (coerce string 'list) (code-char 10)) 'string) :) 19:57:44 But there is nothing wrong with concatenate. 19:57:59 hitecnologys: format with a literal string compiles to the same as the equivalent calls to princ prin1 print terpri and write. 19:58:07 (with-output-to-string(s) (format s " ~%")) 19:58:24 pjb: that's nice 19:58:24 (format nil " ~%") 19:58:42 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:44 hitecnologys: see clhs formatter 19:59:05 ok 19:59:37 It's probably not a good idea to add a newline to a string. newlines are a complex matter. 19:59:41 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:55 sdemarre [~serge@200.164-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:59:56 See http://unicode.org/standard/reports/tr13/tr13-5.html 19:59:58 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 20:00:33 trebor_d` [~user@153.96.244.202] has joined #lisp 20:00:35 in unicode everything is a complex matter, :) 20:01:00 -!- milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:01:06 rszeno: well in this case unicode just codifies existing complexities. 20:01:22 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.80] has joined #lisp 20:01:29 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:01:40 For more fun, see discussions about newline, linefeed and carrier returns in lisp on ms-windows vs. unix vs. macos. 20:01:55 true, but is amayzing for white spaces and newlines, :) 20:02:06 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:17 pjb: I can't get rid of them, I'm writing proper lisp to HTML converter. I used to use SEXML but it generates just one huge line. I'm trying to write such converter that will generate human-readable code. 20:02:41 hitecnologys: keep a list of lines, instead of a single big string. 20:02:54 pjb: that's exactly what I do. 20:03:06 hitechnologys, html ignore newlines anyway 20:04:29 pjb: but some expressions need to be inline and some not, so the only proper way I found to deal with it is to add newlines on the stage of generation. 20:06:06 Here is previous version: https://github.com/HiTECNOLOGYs/CL-HCTSMSL, I'm rewriting it because code is BAD. 20:06:35 And it has unpronounceable name as a bonus. 20:08:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 20:12:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:16 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:53 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.241.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:58 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:16:12 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:48 Is there a way to print keyword without :? 20:16:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:17:37 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 20:18:07 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:19:21 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:19:40 hitecnologys: many ways. PRINC will print it without one. 20:19:46 format with ~A, too. 20:20:10 (symbol-name :foo) 20:20:19 Xach: Oh, thanks a lot. 20:20:53 dtw: I used that way but it's just more like hack 20:20:54 alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:21 Well. It's not _printing_. 20:22:00 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d814a65.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:09 dtw: I know, but (format nil "~S" (symbol-name :keyword)) is ugly. 20:25:15 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 20:25:58 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog141.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:26:35 (Sometimes people say "print" when they mean "return a value" because REPL prints values.) 20:26:39 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:45 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:27:55 dtw: more pedantic lispers would say "evaluate" instead of "return a value",because there are no statements in Lisp 20:28:12 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:28:54 dtw: some, but not me. 20:29:00 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj157.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:49 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:31 Ok, probably last question for today: can I get rid of expressions like this (append (list foo) bar (list another-foo))? 20:30:57 drmeister [~drmeister@d205-250-223-135.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:05 I mean how to get rid of them of course, I'm not asking for premission. =P 20:32:10 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:14 -!- alama [~jessealam@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-068.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 20:32:27 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:32:58 hitecnologys: I'm not sure what you mean. Is bar a list? 20:33:15 Denommus: yep. 20:33:40 Getting rid of? Just delete the expression from your file? Do you mean simplify? `(foo ,@bar another-foo) 20:34:08 well, you could (append (cons foo bar) (list baz)) 20:34:48 dtw: it it as efficient as what I said or much slower? 20:34:49 list before baz can miss 20:34:58 dtw: this is not right. It should be `(,foo ,@bar ,another-foo). But anyway that approach has some problems 20:35:21 Denommus: what kind of problems? 20:35:23 Right, more commas. 20:35:30 milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-145-213.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:36:06 hmph, isn't bar need to be known on compilation time? 20:36:13 hitecnologys: some unexpected side-effects, AFAIK. On Lisp covers them. I wouldn't recommend to quote or backquote outside of macros 20:36:47 jackdaniel: no 20:37:02 But there is nothing wrong with the original APPEND if that's what is needed. 20:37:04 jackdaniel: it's a function, not a macro 20:37:16 k :) 20:37:33 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.190.124.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:37:34 Ok, I probably should just leave original one. Thanks everyone. 20:37:57 nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.18.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:38:59 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 20:39:43 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:50 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:40:27 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:30 hitecnologys: found it 20:40:50 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:41:02 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 20:41:14 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.18.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:28 Denommus: found what? 20:41:44 hitecnologys: try it yourself: (defun foo () '(1 2 3)) (nconc (foo) '(test)) 20:42:01 after this, call foo 20:42:18 Wow, cool. 20:43:00 hitecnologys: now try with (defun foo () (list 1 2 3)) instead 20:43:58 nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.18.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:44:13 backquote has the exact same problem. That's why I don't recommend to use quote or backquote outside of a macro. It can have unforeseen consequences 20:44:27 That's because '(1 2 3) isn't copied, right? 20:44:28 -!- dRbiG [~drbig@178.217.184.41] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:45:25 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:45:45 hitecnologys: that's because, when you use '(1 2 3), FOO always return the exact same object: (eq (foo) (foo)) ;=> T 20:46:10 hitecnologys: but if you use (list 1 2 3), a new object will be created each time: (eq (foo) (foo)) ;=> NIL 20:46:37 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:43 Cool 20:47:23 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:47:36 so, when you use nconc, which is destructive, the object in question is changed. If foo always use the same object, you'll see the side-effect. If you always create a new one using the list function, the foo will return a new one every time 20:47:59 I just accidentally realised the difference between eq and eql, lol 20:48:25 s/realised/realized/ 20:49:30 (eql (list 1 2 3) (list 1 2 3)) is also nil. Don't you mean equal? 20:49:50 mikecsh [~mikecsh@82.112.141.119] has joined #lisp 20:49:54 Ah, yeah. 20:50:22 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 Eq check if objects are exactly the same while equal checks if their contents are the same, right? 20:51:03 yes 20:51:39 So, what eql does then? 20:51:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:52:23 test value and type 20:52:35 unless you're talking about arrays. Arrays are equal only if they're eq. Yes, that's confusing 20:52:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 20:53:13 of course, unless the array is a string or a bit-vector 20:53:19 to make things even more confuse :P 20:54:09 That sounds nice, thanks for explanation. 20:54:10 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:54:12 hitecnologys: two objects are eql if they are eq, if they're both numbers of the same value and type, or if they're the same character 20:54:25 hitecnologys: the hyperspec explains it really well ;) 20:58:19 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:03 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-193-124.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:06 -!- mhbauer [user@nat/ibm/x-cytrhhtkehnwwkba] has left #lisp 21:06:53 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:39 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:08:58 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267179.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:09:49 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-banjguuchmsgmtsp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:10:15 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:12:44 -!- sdemarre [~serge@200.164-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:58 Anyone out there using CLX + Mac OS X? Having some trouble opening displays. 21:14:31 hashcat [~m18@27.242.139.54] has joined #lisp 21:17:08 -!- lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:17:37 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:18:32 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:19 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267179.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:17 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 21:27:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-69-73-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:37 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:30:23 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:22 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 21:32:42 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:33:13 peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-82-174-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 21:36:24 peterhil` [~peterhil@85-76-58-46-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:17 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:38:24 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 21:39:12 ... 21:39:25 Naughty Dog uses continuations to represent the "wait-for" stuff 21:39:25 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-82-174-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:39:56 Denommus: yes 21:40:02 and a custom dialect of scheme 21:40:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:30 with continuations used in "fibers" 21:40:41 I was thinking the whole day "gosh, this seems a lot like something one would do with continuations, but it's not possible. I'll think about another solution" 21:40:45 -!- fds_ is now known as fds 21:40:51 p_l: "tracks" 21:41:11 and then I decided to ctrl+f the slides for continuation and there's that 21:41:40 Denommus: well, fibers are pretty well known names for user-scheduled threads 21:42:08 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:42:17 the wait-for being essentially a sleep-til-event with async scheduling and no spinning 21:42:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:26 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 21:42:30 Greetings lispers 21:42:45 p_l: never touched this kind of thing directly before. I'm honestly impressed with them, and now I understand why they decided for Scheme instead of CL 21:42:54 Xach: Ping! Is lisp-unit still giving you problems or can I close that issue? 21:43:10 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog141.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:43:35 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 21:44:03 although one can have something like continuations in CL 21:44:04 Denommus: given their experience, I think it wasn't so much scheme's support for continuations, as embedding qualities 21:44:39 p_l: I dunno, ECL is not that difficult to embed. I got it how it works in one day 21:44:49 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:25 Denommus: the question is how ECL's behaviour would impact the game 21:46:34 p_l: but anyway, do you think one could do the same using a CL library for threads? 21:46:58 and I am not sure, but I think they released some of their scheme-scripted stuff also for consoles which can have annoying limits 21:47:01 Denommus: sure 21:47:25 but it's beyond me at the moment, well, cps style at least 21:47:56 isn't ECL made with pure C++? 21:50:10 Denommus: it doesn't matter what is it written in, actually, it matters what it does 21:50:32 how it behaves with things like GC, how easy it is to *redo* the GC to fit the game, etc. 21:53:56 ikki [~ikki@201.164.190.39] has joined #lisp 21:55:12 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:56:21 oh, got it 21:57:51 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:03 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:45 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:59:13 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:59:37 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:01:43 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:01:46 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.125] has joined #lisp 22:02:49 Denommus: take into account that for some things you have "time budget" in milliseconds (i.e. you have to fit everything in X ms to keep apropriate framerate) 22:02:57 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 22:03:38 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 22:04:24 I'm using it only for 2D games, and most of the code is in C++ anyway. I won't create heavy entities or anything similar in ECL 22:06:23 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-229.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:41 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.223.166] has quit [Quit: zzz] 22:08:54 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:09:09 -!- Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:09:29 Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:06 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.18.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:42 I've heard a couple 2d/mobile game dev say that they're ok with postponing all but minor GCs to loading screens or some such. That was around 2008-2010. 22:12:10 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 22:13:20 Hi all, if anyone is interested I wrote a small snippet on ABCL+Paho to use Java libs for MQTT messaging. Code is fugly but thought the general idea could be of use to someone: http://finisterra.motd.org/?p=237 22:13:55 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@82.112.141.119] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 22:15:04 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:15:44 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:45 Gr1zzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-178-188.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:19:09 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:09 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:09 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:10 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:10 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:10 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:10 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:10 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:10 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:59 rainyman [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:42 -!- rainyman [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:59 rainyman [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:53 -!- rainyman [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:55 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:44 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:20 -!- james2 [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:28:14 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f4ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:48 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-156-66.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:32:56 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: developernotes] 22:35:37 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39:03 Rich_Morin [~rdm@cfcl.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:16 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.23.122] has joined #lisp 22:42:58 -!- Iuz [~Iuz@unaffiliated/iuz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:50 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:52 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.60.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:28 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:46:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:50 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:43 -!- Ulysses22222 [~daniel@109.226.59.7] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:47:57 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:52 Ulysses22222 [~daniel@109.226.59.7] has joined #lisp 22:50:28 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:28 I'm having some problems installing McCLIM on SBCL (http://pastie.org/8080480). Help? 22:51:53 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:02 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:06 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:27 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 22:54:25 BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:44 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:44 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:56 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:35 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 23:03:29 Rich_Morin: quicklisp tends to work a lot better than asdf-install. 23:04:09 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 23:05:31 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:48 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:06:56 trying that now; thx! 23:07:49 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:29 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:09:15 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.80] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:11:33 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:52 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:12:53 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:17:21 -!- hashcat [~m18@27.242.139.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:52 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:23:42 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:24:41 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 23:25:06 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 23:26:04 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 23:26:23 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:40 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:09 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:27 rme [~rme@50.43.158.105] has joined #lisp 23:31:47 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:36:24 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.100.11] has joined #lisp 23:37:50 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 23:42:10 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:28 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:51 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:52 skalawag [user@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3ad2] has joined #lisp 23:53:51 -!- Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:23 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:34 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-229-86.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:08 tankrim` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:58:34 johnzorn [~jz@69-165-197-72.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp