00:00:23 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:01:56 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.173.147] has joined #lisp 00:08:18 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 00:10:06 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:37 -!- mnemotic [~niko@46.109.168.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:21:52 -!- lambdarice [~felipe@201.75.177.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:55 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:30 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:42 zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:25:57 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 00:26:50 -!- zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 00:27:31 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:33 ckoch786_: they look kind of weird to me. 00:27:47 ckoch786_: i recommend supplementing them with other material. 00:29:19 -!- iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29:21 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:50 This is all the koans you should ever need: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html 00:30:39 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:52 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@145.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 00:35:13 iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:58 I stumbled onto this in the koans: "parameters carry the connotation of immutability. If it's going to change frequently, it should be a var." Is that actually a thing? 00:39:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.2] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:41:01 -!- iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:41:49 Also, the file about the CLOS keeps defining class slots with (foo :reader get-foo :writer set-foo). Doesn't sound idiomatic to me. 00:43:57 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:10 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:49:08 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:41 -!- davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:47 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.248.128] has joined #lisp 00:53:17 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:25 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 00:55:52 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:56:22 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:09:19 -!- yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Ping timeout: 633 seconds] 01:10:32 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:38 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:33 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:50 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:18:54 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:02 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:21:12 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@pppoe231.net137-6.omkc.ru] has joined #lisp 01:23:15 -!- knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.173.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:27:00 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:42 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:52 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:30 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:35:06 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 01:45:19 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 01:49:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 01:57:02 ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-220-198.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:02 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:59:10 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: NihilistDandy] 01:59:34 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@rrcs-70-60-138-98.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:00:35 galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has joined #lisp 02:01:43 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:58 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:30 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:03:52 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:39 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.168.105] has joined #lisp 02:16:02 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:46 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:19:38 Modius [~user@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:07 ryankara1on [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:24 Eq hashtables in common lisp - is it a given that the implementation requires intimate connection with the garbage collector? 02:20:32 -!- ryankara1on [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:21:16 why do you think so? you could implement hashtables on top of vectors. 02:21:50 Aye; but the keys eq-ness requires some way of hashing them, and dealing with them potentially being moved (if the hash/value is related to their position in memory) 02:22:14 I'm thinking of the eq-ness of references to objects/conses/whatever 02:22:35 the hash value doesn't have to be an address. 02:22:44 ryankara1on [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:51 hash function can be anything, really, you have to deal with collisions anyway. 02:23:11 Bike: Good point - you think of any alternatives other than throwing some "identity" value into the allocated object itself? 02:23:40 Alternatives to what...? 02:23:56 I mean for the hash to use the address 02:24:11 Wondering what else one could hash on for eq hashtables 02:24:31 You could have the hash function be constantly zero and it would work, just be bad. 02:25:03 Hash tables already work with the expectation that the hash function isn't a perfect mapping from keys to hash values. 02:25:28 I guess what I'm fishing for are some known alternative strategies for hashes in this situation 02:25:44 Modius: there are several workarounds. A simple and elegant one is to have each object have a hash field, potentially lazily allocated. 02:25:51 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.152.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:23 In the same vein, you can have a global (weak) dictionary of object -> hash code that's updated by the GC. 02:26:37 -!- ryankara1on [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 02:27:02 pkhuong: Thanks, that sounds interesting - btw, as a sub-question, are there any tricks used to lazy-"allocate" these, i.e. do they come from (and go to) some persisting set or are there other tricks? 02:27:04 Or, more simply (but asymptotically all wrong), the GC can expose some way to determine when a GC has occurred since a previous time period 02:28:23 A couple JVMs do something clever: objects are initially allocated without any hash field. Whenever an address-based hash is computed, that's recorded in the header word (with a single bit), and a hash field is added if the object is ever moved. 02:29:10 Now, the hash function will tend to suck if the nursery is always in the same address range, so some nonce is xored in, and the nonce is changed after minor gcs. 02:33:48 So address-based-hash is the default in Java? 02:34:01 object-identity based, anyway. 02:34:13 I didn't know that - happen to know if C#/.Net does that too? 02:34:43 I would expect something similar. 02:36:08 There's special method in Java which returns hash for object. Every object that support hashtables should implement this. 02:36:52 Thanks - didn't occur to me that this was done by identity on these systems 02:37:07 My experience with hashcode is from their overrides, not the defaults 02:37:33 sorry for being unhelpful. 02:37:53 You helped on what I asked 02:41:00 How good is to know some random stuff from lots of different fields of knowledge. I just wonder why I still remember all this crap. 02:41:55 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:43:07 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:55 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 02:44:06 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:44:49 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.248.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:47:43 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 02:49:14 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@203.192.156.9] has joined #lisp 02:49:22 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:51:28 ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:27 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:14 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:06:07 impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.59] has joined #lisp 03:06:12 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:09:09 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 03:13:02 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:40 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:56 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:14 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.245.78] has joined #lisp 03:20:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-129-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:23:55 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: honkfestival] 03:25:34 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.170.69] has joined #lisp 03:25:34 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.170.69] has quit [Changing host] 03:25:34 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:26:49 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.168.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:27:08 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:30:34 PuercoPo` [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:43 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:17 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:40:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:43:03 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:03 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:09 postmodern's documentation talks of a reset-table, function but rgrep doesn't find such table, anyone know if it was removed or something? 03:44:28 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:45:49 PuercoPo`: which documentation do you use? 03:45:58 http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/postmodern.html#reset-table 03:46:05 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 03:47:05 I don't have such function too, maybe it's just apperaed in the list by mistake. 03:47:26 *PuercoPop* nods 03:47:49 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:48:03 So I guess to drop a table I need to use s-sql then 03:48:25 :delete-table works just fine for me. 03:48:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:49:17 I didn't showed in the documentation. I guess I should get more used to apropos! 03:49:23 Oh, nope, :drop-table, sorry 03:49:26 thanks! 03:49:58 You can read this for more detailed info http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html 03:50:33 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.84.188] has joined #lisp 03:50:47 -!- b1101 [~b@209.222.18.35] has quit [Quit: b1101] 03:50:58 Yeah, I'm using that and the use cases here: https://sites.google.com/site/sabraonthehill/postmodern-examples/postmodern-insert#with-dao Thanks! 03:51:05 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:50 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:03 Do you know under what conditions is the primary key with a serial table automatically setted? 03:56:13 when you work with SLIME and your code depends on customized readtable, how do you ensure slime requests are handled with your readtable? 03:56:46 I mean for example in CCL, when :span communication style is used by SLIME each requests is handled by new thread 03:57:03 and new threads are initialized with default value of cl:*readtable* 03:57:28 antonv_: fukumachi has some modification for this @ syntax, maybe you can adapt that? 03:58:03 https://github.com/arielnetworks/cl-annot/blob/master/misc/slime-annot.el 03:58:04 no 03:58:08 sorry it is m2ym 03:58:24 I don't want @ sysntax 03:58:42 or you mean I should look how he enables the syntax 03:58:50 in my source code I have http://paste.lisp.org/display/137745 03:58:50 the latter 03:59:27 this instructs swank what default bindings should be 03:59:35 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 04:00:06 but I am affraid it is not very idiomatic and depends on swank being already loaded at the moment my code is loaded 04:01:01 the emacs lisp code you referred to seems to handle different task - how emacs determines the piece of code to send to swank 04:01:10 i.e. the boundaries for the code fragment 04:01:34 *PuercoPop* nods 04:01:52 hm, cool, emacs lisp has advices 04:02:19 hitecnologys: If I find a bug in postmodern is github the proper place to report it? 04:03:06 PuercoPop: ah, sorry, I was afk. It doesn't set them automatically, you shuold manualy specify primary key(s). 04:03:28 I'm not a developer but github should be proper place to report I think. 04:04:49 What kind of bug? 04:05:36 Or you didn't find it and just asking in case you find one? 04:06:01 in :drop-table I'm getting an error because of foreign keys or something related 04:06:26 and if I pass :if-exists the error gets supressed as per documentation 04:06:31 "" You may optionally pass :if-exists before the name to suppress the error message."" 04:06:47 but it seems a mistake to supress an unrelated error 04:07:01 Could you give me columns list of your table or command whch you use to create it? I don't have such trouble. 04:07:50 Sure, sec let me create a gist (because I haven't pushed it to github yet, everything is a mess :O) 04:08:45 PuercoPop: you can use paste.lisp.org/new 04:10:34 nevermind, upon closer inspection the error persists even with :if-exists. I made a mistake on calling the function 04:11:05 teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has joined #lisp 04:12:28 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 04:13:36 I'm guessing I should have to alter the table to drop the constraints before being able to drop the table? 04:13:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.84.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:13:59 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137746 04:15:06 b1101 [~b@108-61-55-75ch.openskytelcom.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:07 PuercoPop: no, you can just drop table whenever you want 04:17:10 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:18:48 but in your case I'd just prefer using dao-table-definition instead of deftable 04:19:22 And you can't remove word table because table called definition depends on it. 04:19:36 You should remove example first, then definition and then word 04:20:37 Is there way to programatically sort the order? Maybe querying the constraints. Or maybe just try to drop every table until no table exists 04:20:42 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:21:45 and If I use dao-table-definition, how can I specify foreign keys? 04:23:37 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@176.62.106.245] has joined #lisp 04:23:53 ah, damn, Russian internets. What was the last message I sent? 04:24:26 You should remove example first, then definition and then word 04:24:28 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@pppoe231.net137-6.omkc.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:24:43 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 04:24:52 did you get my question about foreign keys and dao-table-definitions? 04:25:42 I haven't really used foreign keys before, sorry 04:26:14 *PuercoPop* nods I used deftable because the example showed how to set foreign keys with it. 04:26:17 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:31 But this should do what you want: (dolist (table (reverse (postmodern:list-tables))) (postmodern:execute (:drop-table table))) 04:27:06 So you are saying the ordered is garanteed but just in reverse? 04:27:14 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:27:33 Yep, your tables depend on each other so you first should remove example. 04:28:34 Foreign key makes sure that if you have row in table 1 the you should have row in table 2 that matches somehow with row in table 1 04:28:36 perfect, thanks for the help btw. I'm trying to document the process as I go along as to help with the documentation. 04:28:40 -!- b1101 [~b@108-61-55-75ch.openskytelcom.net] has quit [Quit: b1101] 04:29:06 You're always welcome 04:30:35 it worked fine. Thanks. now off to sleep (or at least try) 04:30:49 Good night. 04:32:31 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 04:34:09 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34:37 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 04:36:27 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:41 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:37:15 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 04:37:50 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.2.54] has joined #lisp 04:42:34 b1101 [~b@108-61-55-75ch.openskytelcom.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:41 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 04:45:23 gravicappa 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06:13:54 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 06:14:02 -!- Guest40656 is now known as kushal 06:14:10 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kesqhmyyijlslvwe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:09 yakov [~yakov@c-2ec2ba17-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 06:25:48 nostoi [~nostoi@118.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:26 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:44 hajovonta [ukzaas@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 06:30:36 -!- yakov [~yakov@c-2ec2ba17-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:33:12 AriaMK [~aria@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:53 hello 06:35:11 -!- AriaMK [~aria@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:39:41 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:53 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:42:14 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 06:43:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:10 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 06:44:12 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:47:16 yakov [~yakov@195.54.148.98] has joined #lisp 06:48:26 AriaMK [~AriaMK@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:37 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:52:54 hajovonta: hi dude, how are you? 06:54:21 hi hitecnologys, i'm very tired, slept only 3 hours :-) 06:54:29 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:51 let me ask you a question: how many lisp projects do you currently have? 06:56:25 hajovonta: 4 in development stage and 1 actively maintained (however, currently frozen to get more resources), slept for 4 hours last day, didn't sleep this night 06:57:02 I have some kind of problems with sleep so I usually just work at night. 06:57:18 hajovonta: and what about you? 06:58:30 i have one in development, one in planning phase, and one personal app which i use on a daily basis 06:58:31 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.2] has joined #lisp 06:59:44 ah, I wish I could just drop everything but I can't =P 07:01:00 dropping is radical. maybe it's better to suspend it until you have more time. 07:01:42 there is no point to stress yourself except when you see money from it 07:01:45 :-) 07:01:53 sure, but free time for me is like some sort of a bug -- I need to exterminate them all 07:02:20 if I don't keep my mind busy then it starts to do crazy things 07:02:41 s/starts to do/starts doing/ 07:03:06 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-rkckaaazmuzyljat] has joined #lisp 07:03:22 hitecnologys: this sounds familiar. i went to the forest for a few days to change my mind about this 07:03:47 a few years ago 07:04:44 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:45 I usually just go and sleep in this cases 07:05:00 (or start brand new project) 07:05:10 people always make themselves busy... it's like they don't want to hear their own thoughts. like they didn't like the company of themselves :) 07:05:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:05:39 not all of them, but that's absolutely true at least for me 07:05:54 mnemotic [~niko@46.109.168.33] has joined #lisp 07:07:30 then how does hacking in cl bring fulfillness and joy? :) 07:07:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:07:43 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:05 hajovonta: I don't think much about it, I just enjoy writing any kind of code 07:08:06 If living on a diet of beans and chanting a lot can do it, I don't see why hacking in CL can't. 07:08:39 Zhivago :) 07:08:49 hooray, I've just finished my plans on database code for next two weeks! 07:09:10 neoesque [~neoesque@210.242.17.242] has joined #lisp 07:14:29 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:16:13 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.2] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:17:51 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.2] has joined #lisp 07:17:59 i got errors when loading cl-async with quicklisp. 07:19:38 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 07:19:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:38 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:23:33 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:24:45 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-131.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:59 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:25:30 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fd7f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:39 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:28:41 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:29:04 galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 <|3b|> heh, something in slime apparently passes package names to printf as format string, package names with % look odd in modeline 07:31:24 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@182.148.93.50] has left #lisp 07:32:30 er, is that in stump? 07:32:43 oh, emacs, right. 07:34:06 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.230] has joined #lisp 07:34:07 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.242.17.242] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 07:36:45 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.230] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:56 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 07:38:13 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@95.35.57.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:38:13 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:38:26 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:51 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:39:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.243] has joined #lisp 07:39:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.243] has quit [Changing host] 07:39:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:40:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.2.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:42:40 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@118.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 07:43:45 <|3b|> or maybe the modeline interprets % escapes, since %l and %c turn in to line and column, which doesn't sound like printf or format 07:46:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:50:11 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:52:27 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:55:55 I need to leave for a few hours, brb 07:55:58 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.106.245] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 07:59:38 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:04:43 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:08:25 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:10:10 Odyessus [~odyessus@guest-wlan.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:15:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:16:56 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:02 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-94-45.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:21:10 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nwdhxuqxollrbpnh] has joined #lisp 08:22:20 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@guest-wlan.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:23:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:27:45 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 08:28:37 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 08:28:41 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 08:32:31 ok! 08:40:36 jagaj_ [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:31 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:42:31 -!- jagaj_ is now known as jagaj 08:42:57 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:43:01 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:48:05 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has joined #lisp 08:53:24 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-217-66-214.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:57:58 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:00:10 chord [322f5788@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.87.136] has joined #lisp 09:00:36 you guys use lisp scheme or clojure? 09:00:44 common lisp 09:00:47 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:00:50 WTF? 09:00:55 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:17 i use common lisp 09:01:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pvotscpaideoomyj] has joined #lisp 09:01:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pvotscpaideoomyj] has quit [Changing host] 09:01:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:01:52 WHY 09:01:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp 09:02:00 this channel is about common lisp 09:02:11 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 09:02:13 your questions are inappropriate 09:02:22 clojure is close enough 09:02:32 #clojure is that way 09:02:38 clojure is another lisp dialect 09:02:49 and #scheme yet another way 09:02:59 what do i gain by avoiding the jvm and not using clojure? 09:03:16 chord: what do i gain by using jvm? 09:03:25 chord: you can discuss clojure in #clojure 09:03:33 not here 09:05:38 yet raging is more than accurate :þ 09:06:25 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 09:06:54 srikumar [~srikumar@220.227.95.85] has joined #lisp 09:06:56 chord: we like it our way 09:07:18 don't i want all the jvm library stuff already out there for use? 09:07:26 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 09:07:30 *jackdaniel* refreshed/remembered to himself greensupn's tenth rule \o/ 09:07:31 have you come here to preach jvm or what? 09:07:50 chord: try sbcl for common lisp w/o jvm. eot 09:07:53 :Ð 09:07:56 <|3b|> abcl works fine with JVM if you do want it 09:08:08 there is abcl 09:09:16 so if I want to do machine learning stuff you would recommend common lisp? 09:09:29 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:09:43 <|3b|> we suggest common lisp for everything, we are pretty biased though 09:09:53 :) 09:10:00 chord: this channel is about common lisp 09:10:03 what would the Haskell people say in response? 09:10:16 that they advice haskell language 09:10:21 isn't that obvious? :D 09:11:29 so why should I listen to you guys over the haskell people? 09:11:50 chord: you shouldn't listen to us 09:11:55 :) 09:11:56 we are Common Lisp fanatics 09:11:57 you shouldn't, you should stop asking questions about language choice 09:12:12 if there would be a phrik (bot) i would write 09:12:14 !war1 09:12:28 (-- are we discussing about programming languages again? --) 09:12:48 you guys ever use stuff like opencv? 09:13:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 09:15:13 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b1765.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:16:48 so thats a no? 09:17:09 i believe you are a troll sir °_° 09:17:15 we are ignoring you, because you ask stupid questions 09:17:55 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.54.148.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:50 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:20:38 jackdaniel why the hate 09:21:33 i dont hate, but you make me even more, that you are a troll (i like trolls £>) 09:21:42 convinced^ 09:22:34 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has joined #lisp 09:26:09 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-025-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:41 arrsim` [~user@ppp118-209-18-105.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:23 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-224-117.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:29 s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-210-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:28 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:39:34 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:43:39 BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has joined #lisp 09:47:19 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:49:23 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:24 so any recommendations on whats best to use for machine learning with functional languages 09:56:19 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: doei my friends, my linux may not bot anymore again! thumbs up, Syu] 09:58:03 any language with good symbolic and macro support would help for building compilers and interpreters, making most lisps a good choice I think... if you're into pure functional programming then common lisp will not force you that way, but your own dialect under it could (or the way tou use cl), or another language might (like haskell) 09:59:16 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:46 chord: for statistical machine learning you may try Scala with Java libraries 10:01:14 so you suggest Scala over clojure and common lisp 10:01:16 and Haskell has some libraries if I remember well 10:01:41 it depends on what sort of functionality you need 10:02:38 Clojure has Incanter which is a very nice library imo 10:02:48 ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-240-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:52 kinda like R 10:02:54 I think I misread machine learning, I had read "machine language" heh... well many languages today have been used for ai and related fields 10:04:13 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:05:05 I used Clojure/Incanter to build a small risk analysis tool for bank traders, it has been quite effective 10:05:11 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-235-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:41 I recommend you take a look at it 10:05:56 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:06:14 Blkt: I wouldn't wish Scala on someone that enjoys Lisp. 10:06:17 dsevilla [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has joined #lisp 10:06:25 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:06:49 brucem: he spoke about Haskell too 10:07:08 but I agree with you anyway :D 10:08:32 dsevilla` [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has joined #lisp 10:08:58 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:35 mikecsh [~mikecsh@host-92-20-86-118.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:58 -!- dsevilla [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:11:42 dsevilla [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has joined #lisp 10:12:49 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:13:13 -!- dsevilla` [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:13:34 o/ 10:14:23 dsevilla` [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has joined #lisp 10:15:56 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:18 -!- dsevilla [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:18:54 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:18:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:07 -!- dsevilla` [~user@neuromancer.inf.um.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:20:05 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Quit: poof] 10:23:18 ralph-moeritz [~user@196.37.229.15] has joined #lisp 10:26:34 -!- jathd [~user@fr141-3-78-229-169-69.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:08 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:27:12 hi, i know this has probably been asked before, but has anyone here tried out the recently released mocl? no trial version so i'd be keen to hear about your experiences before spending good money on it. 10:27:12 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:29:03 -!- chord [322f5788@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.87.136] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:31:11 -!- mnemotic [~niko@46.109.168.33] has left #lisp 10:33:15 fosskers [~colin@p4076-ipbfp303sinnagasak.nagasaki.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:34:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:57 oudeis_ [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:12 ralph-moeritz: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5929075 10:39:04 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:42:56 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:43:11 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 10:44:28 zorkmoid [c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has joined #lisp 10:44:32 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:32 ;Good morning! 10:44:40 o/ 10:45:07 hey guys 10:45:31 first time in here 10:45:38 \o :) 10:46:28 samebchase: thanks 10:46:28 i implemented a scheme-ish lisp, but somebody probably comes in here everyday saying that, i bet 10:46:28 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:39 ralph-moeritz: i played with it to the extent that i could write a simple hello world like program and execute it on my actual phone. that was with the beta. 10:47:02 H4ns: iOS or android? 10:47:05 fosskers: this channel is about common lisp, specifically 10:47:06 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:47:15 ralph-moeritz: android (samsung galaxy nexus) 10:47:17 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:47:35 hmm. it says you need to create the ui in the native language 10:47:51 H4ns: yeah? is there anywhere to talk about lisp in general? 10:47:52 ui makes up the most non-trivial parts of most of the applications i've written on mobile 10:48:10 guaqua: yes - this is only partly true. the demo application comes with its own ui created as bitmap from lisp. 10:48:17 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has left #lisp 10:48:19 okay 10:48:26 fosskers: this is not the place. try #lispcafe 10:48:48 H4ns: thanks, i will 10:48:53 even though i'd like to root for mocl, i don't see myself using it 10:49:15 (dumb question, by why it's called #lisp not #clisp or such than?) 10:49:20 H4ns: how did you you find the dev process? is there an emacs mode? do you have to AOT compile your programs? 10:49:28 jackdaniel: because. 10:49:45 it might be a good fit for an application that is doing something more complex on the phone 10:49:57 ralph-moeritz: i used emacs to write the lisp. no special mode. aot compilation using a command line tool. 10:50:21 most apps merely function as user interfaces for manipulating data structures that are persisted on the server via http 10:51:23 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-025-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:51:27 H4ns: cool. is it possible to use the native APIs from CL? 10:52:36 ralph-moeritz: the example calls lisp from the native part of the app. i have not seen callback examples, but it is supposed to be possible. 10:52:57 H4ns: thanks. sorry for bombarding you with questions. 10:53:02 ralph-moeritz: np 10:53:17 H4ns: wish there was more info available on the website. 10:53:45 ralph-moeritz: everybody wishes that. i guess we'll see one or more review blog posts soon. 10:54:12 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:55:26 they promised a trial version in several weeks 11:00:43 AOT compile? what does that mean? 11:00:48 ahead of time 11:00:59 vs. just-in-time 11:01:09 ah 11:01:22 is is like cross-compilations in this case? 11:01:24 then i follow .. thanks. 11:01:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-217-66-214.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:02:01 I assume Mocl compiles the app on your development machine 11:02:12 which has different architecture than the phone 11:02:49 i suspect it dumps C code which you can then compile for your target ... that is what i gathered from the talk held at eclm 11:04:51 (since supposedly it is based on clicc ... go figure) 11:06:41 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:12:26 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:12:46 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:37 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:17:24 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:19:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.42] has joined #lisp 11:19:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.42] has quit [Changing host] 11:19:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:19:27 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:50 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-reruailuuevjmdgk] has joined #lisp 11:22:50 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-reruailuuevjmdgk] has quit [Changing host] 11:22:50 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:32:16 Xach: listened to fare's recording from this year's ecls about asdf3. some nice stuff (esp. the uiop pathname stuff & the new define-system). any plans on including it in quicklisp? 11:34:08 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:35:48 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:37:21 -!- chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 11:38:55 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:41:02 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:41:55 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 11:42:31 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@host-92-20-86-118.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 11:43:36 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:48:51 ralph-moeritz: do you have a link handy? 11:49:02 *zorkmoid* ponders why there isn't a replace-current-word-under-point-in-enclosing-sexp 11:49:12 gensym: www.nicklevine.org/els2013/ 11:49:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:49:22 thanks 11:50:36 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.70.156] has joined #lisp 11:52:44 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:55:31 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:15 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:19 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:25 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:56:41 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:56:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:57:24 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:57:50 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:01:06 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 12:02:41 ralph-moeritz: When I find time to fix the software of mine that it has broken, yes. 12:03:29 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:12 -!- fosskers [~colin@p4076-ipbfp303sinnagasak.nagasaki.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:04:19 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.47.59] has joined #lisp 12:11:02 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:12:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:16:20 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 12:16:44 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 12:19:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:19:29 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:22:06 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-10-131.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:25:31 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:48 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:49 bitonic [~user@dyn1217-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:27:54 Joreji [~thomas@87-222.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:34:18 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 12:34:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 12:34:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:34:42 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-17-35.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:34:49 -!- n2kraWork [~n2kra@ool-4a585a5b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:37:48 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.70.156] has left #lisp 12:38:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:38:41 inf-groupoid [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 12:38:53 Xach: can i lend a hand or is it private (non-OSS)? 12:41:22 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41:54 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:00 ralph-moeritz: It will take a little time to publish it, more time to do that than to fix it 12:47:22 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:48:06 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:30 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.110.114.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 12:50:38 Xach: ok np. 12:52:49 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:53:27 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:56:20 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has joined #lisp 12:59:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:59:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:01:51 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-131.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:57 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:05:32 iglu [~nick@203-59-240-52.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:05:57 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:07:26 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:45 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 looking at cl-test-grid results collected so far for quicklisp 2013-06-15 13:10:14 regressions 13:10:31 every month something breaks 13:10:31 :~( 13:10:33 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/quicklisp-diff.html 13:10:49 I haven't analyzed the causes yet 13:11:02 I have Big Plans for making it easier to test percolating dists 13:11:22 this time ELS is affected most of all 13:12:06 If people were able to create dist version, they can test the dists 13:12:07 The European Lisp Conference? 13:12:12 ECL 13:12:20 not ELS 13:13:07 if people were able to create dists, they could collect quality information, and provide this information to quicklisp 13:13:26 No doubt! 13:13:37 if the dist is known to be good, it may be released as an official quicklisp dist 13:14:12 another question is to notify the authors 13:14:24 sending emails manually is tedious 13:14:37 especially when you first need to find mailing list, then to subscribe to it 13:15:10 I where there were a function (notify-authors :alexandria ) 13:15:31 the function knows what email address(es) should be emailed 13:16:01 and also, if this is a mailing list, the From email account must be subscribed to the lists 13:16:29 when Fare have been sending bug reports to many libraries, he collected some of the in a .lisp file 13:16:35 I mean email addresses 13:17:22 If we had such a database of library name to email address mapping, it could simplify notifying the authors 13:18:03 we were discussing to store this .lisp file in a github repo, so that everyone can contribute to it 13:18:40 but there is an issue - should we store collection of email addresses publicly available? What if spammers use it? 13:19:40 on the other hand, these addresses are usually collected from public sources, so no a bug issue 13:23:34 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:15 joe9_ [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:17 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:25:18 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:25:27 maybe ask the person(s) associated with the address if they are willing to be on such a list first? 13:25:46 collecting such lists without the consent of the recipient can fall under weirod laws .. 13:26:05 antonv_: Sometimes email is not the best way to alert someone of a bug. Github issues are quite common. 13:26:33 yes, good point 13:26:53 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1217-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:28:33 mikecsh [~mikecsh@host-92-20-86-118.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:53 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:29:09 hi 13:29:23 so mocl is $199 dollars. Well, I don't have the money :( 13:29:49 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:30:15 lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 13:30:30 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:30:33 You could borrow some from a bank, and pay them back when you have earned $$millions$$ from your application. 13:31:23 oh, yeah. Great idea :P 13:31:35 I guess you really only have to make $hundreds$ 13:31:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-222.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:32:17 it's just too expensive. It's basically an anual license 13:32:39 I'll stick with ECL :P 13:32:41 just don't give anyone a stake in your company like the social network movie 13:35:29 Lightweight YC: Borrow N end-developers 200 for a month of trial against stake in venture, then recover license for those without MVP after four weeks -> PROFIT. 13:37:49 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:04 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:51 Denommus: $200 is way too much for a product that really doesn't give you much. I mean, I *love* Common Lisp, but come on! You can write equivalent apps using something like Kivy (Python) for free! 13:39:27 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 13:39:38 ralph-moeritz: yes. You can also use Kawa Scheme or Clojure, if you want a Lisp and only Android 13:40:05 I guess my perspective is different, because I have worked at companies where they paid $13,000 annual license fees for software products that served a business need. 13:40:09 ralph-moeritz: in my case, I don't really care about API, because I'm using only OpenGL ES, then ECL is more than enough for me 13:40:15 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:32 If I want to change a function definition in a package, what is the common way? unintern the old one and intern the new one? Would take make the package's interal functions use the new definition instead of the old one? 13:40:37 consider it an entertainment 13:40:39 Xach: those corps sure know how to burn money! 13:40:44 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:40:49 coding lisp for phones 13:41:06 Xach: if I had a company, or if the company where I work wanted to buy a license, I'd have nothing against it. But I'm an employee searching for a scripting language 13:42:23 Xach: over here (south africa) the gov spent $300k on a website. it's not even a good website! 13:42:28 PuercoPop: What have you tried so far? 13:42:31 ralph-moeritz: In this case it was cheaper than the alternative, which was to go out of business. 13:42:40 Xach: besides, $199 is a personal license. Commercial is $499. Enterprise is $1299. They don't even say how much you'd have to pay for the source 13:43:09 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:43:19 chr: haven't yet, still reading the source code to see what I want the new function to look like 13:44:01 Denommus: write us a function notify-mainteiners and we will gift you mocl license 13:44:17 Denommus: i sent the author of mocl a mail & told him $200 for a personal license is probably unrealistic. suggested $80. 13:44:56 ralph-moeritz: it will be funny if you and he agree on 150 13:45:06 or 120 13:45:46 ralph-moeritz: I think I'd pay $80 for an annual license. At most $100. But $200 is too much for someone who makes $12000/year 13:46:00 Have you considered that you might not be the target market? 13:46:10 Xach: yes 13:46:11 They just enjoy some good bartering on price 13:46:27 It is nice to have affordable alternatives. 13:46:30 Xach: I'm not really ranting. I'm only sad 13:46:48 $80? How do I feed my familiy? 13:46:49 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:46:50 PuercoPop: I'd probably say (in-package #:packagename) (defun ...) 13:47:09 *PuercoPop* nods, thanks! 13:47:11 Xach: fair enough. the 'indie' version of xamarin studio costs $300 so i suppose mocl is cheap by comparison. the difference is huge though. xamarin is more than just a compiler & some obj-c/java bindings. just saying 13:48:21 CL just is a smaller market. Lispworks is more expensive and that's one of the cheapest of the commercial offerings. Allegro is really expensive. 13:49:06 antgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 13:49:16 free license for non-commercial open source mobile apps would be nice 13:49:44 samebchase: indeed 13:49:56 like GitHub for example 13:50:01 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 feel free to write one and make it available on that basis. 13:50:29 but mal___ is right. Lisp is just too niche. Git is not 13:50:46 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:51:31 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:53:30 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:10 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:18 -!- antgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:04:31 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05:38 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:32 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:06:50 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:09:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:10:23 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:13:19 drurowin [~user@173-25-41-2.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:15:07 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 14:15:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:16:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 14:17:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has joined #lisp 14:17:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has quit [Changing host] 14:17:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:18:47 -!- inf-groupoid [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Apparently, the best way to deal with the "productivity issues" facing a team of programmers is to debate shit nobody cares about for roughly an hour. Lovely.] 14:19:13 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:51 does anyone know what does the #+ syntax mean? 14:21:27 I know that #+sbcl/clisp/etc is for implementation specific extensions 14:21:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002891.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:20 but now I've found #+postmodern-use-mop in an asd and in files 14:22:39 #+ tests for something in *features*, and #- tests for its absense 14:23:36 ahh ok, so I guess that one registers what features they support in *features* 14:23:49 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 14:24:12 and any idea why to add a \! to the start of a function name instead of just !? 14:25:00 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:25:43 -!- hajovonta [ukzaas@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:07 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:23 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:32 bitonic [~user@dyn1228-157.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:40:23 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1228-157.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:18 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:41:50 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:38 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:03 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-158-154.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:51:48 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has joined #lisp 14:52:29 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:52:31 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:48 -!- iglu [~nick@203-59-240-52.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:54:51 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 14:56:14 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-rkckaaazmuzyljat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:43 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 14:58:55 the mocl site now has code samples 14:59:10 antgreen_ [green@nat/redhat/x-zafwobpnxcjdhsau] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:54 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 15:03:40 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:54 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:04 samebchase: yes, for iOS only though. I suggested to Wes (the author) that he should add a quick start to the site to show what's involved with creating a minimal, functional app using mocl. 15:04:59 samebchase: something like the temperature converter app that all android/ios newbies seem to create. 15:05:03 ECL running on Android. But I still haven't started using it as a scripting language 15:05:44 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 15:06:01 do I just need to use the ARM shared library to link the generated C code against it? 15:06:24 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.36.227] has joined #lisp 15:06:40 ralph-moeritz: shouldn't he have done a (sort (copy-list ...)) instead of (sort ) 15:07:34 samebchase: why? 15:08:39 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:09:16 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:09:51 Oh. It's not necessary? I thought that it might be because sort is destructive. 15:10:12 samebchase: it is destructive, but look closely. 15:10:38 -!- antgreen_ is now known as antgreen 15:11:07 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:39 mocl's pricing is quite steep 15:11:44 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 15:11:45 (imho) 15:11:49 I don't know if ECL-android swank is slow as hell or if I just can't connect to it 15:12:29 madnificent: do you think that if it were cheaper, more units could be sold? 15:12:43 *contacts* is being assigned to a sort'd version of itself. Hmm.. 15:13:45 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 15:14:47 H4ns: no, i think if a free version existed for open source applications (or something more stringent than that), more units could be sold. 15:15:49 I have a question about CLOS, what I am doing here, setting a slot in the meta-class https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5850773 ? 15:16:15 madnificent: the phone market is not an open source market. there are free applications, granted, but the market is largely commercial, so having commercial development tools also makes some sense. 15:16:58 ... ok, I can't connect to it for some reason 15:17:00 madnificent: the author told me in a mail that he's still testing the waters to see how it will be received & seems quite willing to reconsider pricing if it doesn't sell at current prices. personally, i think the personal ed will drop in price over the next month or two, if not sooner. $200 is just crazy for a compiler & some obj-c/java glue. 15:17:56 ralph-moeritz: by making such promises, he'll surely reduce sales now because everybody is waiting for the price to drop. and he'll piss off everyone who pays that price now. 15:18:28 H4ns: i'm not saying it doesn't make sense. i think a free edition would make more devs check mocl out, which will likely yield more sales in the future. anyways, it's not my call 15:19:21 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:28 H4ns: maybe, but that's how free markets work. hell, i get pissed off paying $2 for soap & finding that it's been reduced to $1 the week after. 15:19:31 ralph-moeritz: i don't think the price is too high per se. if you can win back a day's worth of work with it, you've payed the license fee back. that's not over the top for something that works cross platform. 15:20:26 is there a function in the spec to make a copy of a hashtable 15:20:48 tensorpudding: no. 15:20:51 i'm pretty sure that one cannot create something like mocl in a day's work, in particular when ios app store support is needed. 15:20:52 madnificent: disagree. there are really good, free tools out there already. for clojure, check out neko & lein-clj. for python check out kivy. both free. kivy, in particular is really simple to set up & the resultant apps are fast *and* work across iOS, android & traditional desktop platforms. 15:21:12 madnificent: sorry, meant lein-droid, not lein-clj. 15:21:19 alexandria:copy-hash-table 15:22:19 H4ns: agreed & i'm not saying he should give it away for free but $200 for the entry-level version is just too much. 15:22:31 i forgot how let bindings handle when you try to create a new name for a hashtable...doing things like remhash on the binding affect the original variable, so i need to copy it i guess 15:22:34 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:22:54 ralph-moeritz: and still, i'd prefer to use common lisp over any of them... but if i'm going to use it for a payed project, that 200$ probably won't hurt me. 15:23:23 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:37 madnificent: if you've got the cash then by all means go for it. i don't use common lisp commercially so i have no incentive to fork out that kind of money. 15:23:40 ralph-moeritz: so the only advantage of this seems to be for existing CLers to write x-platform mobile apps. A person who doesn't know CL might as well use the other options 15:23:41 ralph-moeritz: anyways, let's leave the pricing up to him, hope he succeeds 15:24:13 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@host-92-20-86-118.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 15:25:09 PuercoPop: you don't know for sure where it has been set, it might have been set in the metaclass somewhere, or in a hash-table or in something else. the MOP doesn't restrict access to the environment when a class is instantiated with a metaclass option. 15:26:06 PuercoPop: however, you probably don't want to be bothered with the internal workings of postmodern. you probably want to enjoy the interface they offer, and dive deeper when you want/need to extend/fix. 15:26:11 but it is something for the metaclass? Because it is not on the slot list. Haven't seen that 15:26:52 madnificent: I'm trying to see if its feasible to extend the dao to be able set the foreignkeys in the same definition 15:27:38 madnificent: ultimately the market dictates prices, not the seller. he can set whatever price he wants but if people aren't willing to pay he'll have to reconsider. if it were me trying to sell a product like mocl i'd prefer frank & honest feedback from potential customers re. pricing rather than lots of cheerleading from people who probably won't buy anyway. just my 2c though. 15:29:02 ralph-moeritz: but then again, there are selles markerts and buyers markets. Although don't know which is the case for mocl. I think it is conservative to start high to test the waters and go down from there. 15:29:03 PuercoPop: it's been a while since i've looked at postmodern, so others will certainly be able to give you a better answer, but i'd assume it shouldn't be overly complex. if you haven't read amop yet (or somehow gained a sane understanding of it) do that first. then dive in postmodern's implementation. IIRC it was well-written. 15:29:54 ralph-moeritz: i agree. will you drop the author a link to the relevant lisp-log so he can skip over what people said about the pricing, or should i? 15:30:05 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.245.78] has joined #lisp 15:30:10 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.245.78] has joined #lisp 15:30:23 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.245.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:24 madnificent: would you mind? my irc-fu is weak. 15:30:29 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.245.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:44 Well I'm halfway through that book and Sonya's one just got to my house back in Perú but I'm not going to be there until the end of August. Thanks for the help anyway. 15:30:53 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.245.78] has joined #lisp 15:31:25 madnificent: would love to know how to pull logs for #lisp from the server. there's bound to be a ton of useful info. 15:31:52 PuercoPop: how is AMOP? I've recently finished reading Keene and I plan to start AMOP soon 15:32:10 samebchase: sorry to butt in. busy reading amop & loving it so far. 15:32:25 good 15:33:09 ralph-moeritz: do you see yourself using the things that you're learning from it soon? 15:33:14 I didn't have much luck learning the MOP from AMOP, but I do remember it teaching a good way to design GF protocols. 15:33:21 *Xach* wants to re-read 15:33:27 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:11 samebchase: i'm hacking on patty while reading amop & finding that i'm learning as much from the hacking as i am from amop, but otoh amop is so well written that it makes for pleasant reading regardless. 15:35:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:35:29 GF protocols? 15:36:20 samebchase: yes, sets of GFs that work nicely together for the purpose of easy extension or customization. 15:36:41 it helped stop me from writing CLOS code by starting with defclass, and starting with defgeneric instead. 15:37:12 does anyone know where i can find the slides from this year's eclm? 15:37:25 GF == "Generic Functions" ? 15:37:30 samebchase: yes 15:37:34 okay 15:40:13 samebchase: Recently I was asking about the AMOP at the ClojureNYC meetup becase I wasn't seeing anything mind-blowing (maybe I haven't gotten to the good part yet or maybe I am not ready?) and a guy recommended me this book to see realword usage of the MOP: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0201175894/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 15:40:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:40:56 samebchase: ah I saw you mentioned the book previously. Probably a good strat 15:41:15 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 15:41:53 ralph-moeritz: http://weitz.de/eclm2013/ 15:43:10 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:43:25 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 15:43:26 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:46:50 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:48:21 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:50 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:51:23 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:54:23 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:57:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:28 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 16:00:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has joined #lisp 16:00:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has quit [Changing host] 16:00:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:05:44 yrk [~user@184-198-232-59.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:56 -!- yrk [~user@184-198-232-59.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:05:57 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:08:03 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 16:09:16 josemanuel [~josemanue@127.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:10:25 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:18:07 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:24 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:19:48 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:29 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:53 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:34 -!- Adeolos is now known as Adeon 16:23:41 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 16:31:24 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:45 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:57 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:24 -!- ASau``` is now known as ASau 16:35:55 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.36.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:23 -!- ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-240-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:25 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:33 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:12 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:36 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:33 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@127.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:21 josemanuel [~josemanue@143.177.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:44:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:46:20 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 16:46:26 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:46:50 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 16:52:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:55 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:54:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:56:22 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-158-154.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:57 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 16:58:20 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 17:00:01 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:00:33 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-187.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:35 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:05:03 i am trying to get my feet wet with SBCL and i trying to work on this bug ( lp #806398) as it has implementation directions. Here is my attempt to follow what nikodemus specified and would like comments. For tagbody, if the body of open runs without raising an error, it would return NIL...and open should return a stream instead. any pointers on that? here is my code https://gist.github.com/nicmollel/5850631 and here is launchpad bug 17:05:03 record https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/806398 17:05:55 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:09:45 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:59 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:04 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:11:16 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:48 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:51 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has joined #lisp 17:11:57 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-zafwobpnxcjdhsau] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:07 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:36 banjara1 [~Adium@50-196-135-161-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:34 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-94-45.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:23:17 ralph-moeritz: http://www.cliki.net/IRC tends to be of help 17:24:32 -!- vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:24:43 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:25:06 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:13 ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 17:29:07 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:32:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:32:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has joined #lisp 17:32:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.253.152] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:34:06 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:29 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.110.114.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:31 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.110.114.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:42:30 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:54 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 -!- joe9_ [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:31 ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 17:45:29 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:45:40 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nwdhxuqxollrbpnh] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:36 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 17:47:51 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 17:47:55 -!- adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:48:08 adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:18 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-160.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:51:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:55:24 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@128.42.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:55:45 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@143.177.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:56:49 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:58:17 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:58 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:08 the ECL docs are pretty poor 18:02:09 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:19 have you guys seen antonv_ around ? 18:02:48 bitonic [~user@cust209-dsl56.idnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:08 ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:14 hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:07:25 ph88: i think he was around couple hours back, morning EST which would be around 3 hours ago or something 18:07:47 too bad he went away :( 18:08:03 -!- bitonic [~user@cust209-dsl56.idnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:08:28 bitonic [~user@cust209-dsl56.idnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:44 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:07 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:10:08 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:17 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@50-196-135-161-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:49 -!- bitonic [~user@cust209-dsl56.idnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:13:39 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 18:14:08 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:16:56 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 18:21:57 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:25:20 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:25:57 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:28:26 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:31:39 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:32:04 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:09 ok, everything on the manual about embedding ECL is about using it as an interpreted language 18:32:39 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:32:45 but can I, I dunno, compile it to C code and use this as an extension for my C program, or is interpreting my only option? 18:32:50 ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:57 when I do (defvar *some* '()), *some* becomes nil. Hence, when I use (setf *some* (append *some* "")), it doesn't give (""), but it gives "". How to get ("") right away? 18:33:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:38 (push "" *some* 18:33:51 ah. I was looking for this function :-) 18:33:53 thanks 18:33:55 ASau` [~user@p5797F3AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:36 Ralt: you should understand how lists work on Lisp before anything 18:36:01 Ralt: do you understand what cons cells are? 18:37:40 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:37:43 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96CC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:37:49 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:14 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:40:19 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:25 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:46:02 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:27 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:31 oudeis [~oudeis@109.65.161.189] has joined #lisp 18:52:00 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-25-31.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55:29 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@128.42.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:57:16 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:23 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:57:53 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:18 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:25 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:24 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 19:03:55 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 19:04:23 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:52 josemanuel [~josemanue@155.186.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:07:53 Denommus: sorry, went afk. What do you mean? 19:08:10 I didn't want a cons cell, I wanted a simple list such as '("some" "string") 19:08:21 not '("some" . "string") 19:09:56 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:11 -!- asedeno_ [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:37 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:32 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has joined #lisp 19:13:36 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 Ralt: exactly. You wanted TWO cons cells. 19:14:14 ("some" "string") == ("some" . ("string" . nil)) 19:14:37 then how do I get ("some" "string" "foo" "bar") 19:14:49 Ralt: read the doc of APPEND. 19:14:56 ("some" . ("string" . ("foo" . "bar")))? 19:15:01 Nope. 19:15:06 ffilozov [~user@166.Red-83-58-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:14 Learn about CONS cells and list. Eg. read Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/dst/www/LispBook/index.html 19:15:23 (append '(a b c) '(d e f) '() '(g)) => (A B C D E F G) 19:16:21 Ralt: if you don't understand that a list is composed of cons cells, you don't understand lists 19:16:32 anyway, I'm having difficulties 19:16:54 I compiled some ECL code into a static library, and I CAN link it against my C program 19:17:04 but I can't call any function from it 19:17:15 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: !!!!] 19:17:22 Denommus: they are lisp functions. 19:17:52 (until you use FFI to make then callins. 19:17:53 ) 19:17:54 pjb: I know they are lisp functions. That's why ECL lib gives me cl_funcall 19:18:06 With cl_funall, you should be able to call them indeed. 19:18:30 I think I'm actually not loading the functions correctly 19:18:37 just linking is not enough, is it? 19:19:10 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19:14 and I can't find how to load it on the wiki 19:19:43 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:53 alright, reading this http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/lisp/cons/ 19:19:56 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:25 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:20:56 -!- ffilozov [~user@166.Red-83-58-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:24:05 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:24:45 I should use cons more often. 19:25:11 or list* or append indeed. 19:25:42 Try: (list 1 2 3 4) (list* 1 2 3 4) (list* 1 2 3 '(4)) (append '(1 2 3) 4) (append '(1 2 3) '(4)) 19:26:10 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 ... gosh, I'm almost quitting in prol of Chicken Scheme 19:32:59 milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 19:33:20 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:33:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.65.161.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:04 What is prol? 19:38:46 Xach: ... neologism, it was a mistake 19:39:45 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:11 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.47.59] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:40:59 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.56.126] has joined #lisp 19:43:41 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-25-31.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:06 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:48:21 beesmoose [~There@cpe-74-72-32-188.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:49:55 ok I just joined the room for the first time and windows shuts down secondary monitor...wtf? 19:50:16 ok... I think I need to use the init-name parameter somehow 19:50:28 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 19:51:57 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 19:52:09 I DID IT 19:52:29 great... now I need to make cl_funcall work 19:56:49 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@155.186.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:58 ok, did it 19:58:06 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 19:58:47 Declare victory, spend the $199 you saved on cake 19:59:17 josemanuel [~josemanue@238.221.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:59:19 nbouscal [~nbouscal@75-151-116-62-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.56.126] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:59:35 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@75-151-116-62-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:00:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:25 Xach: that's a great idea, actually 20:01:41 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:01:47 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@238.221.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:03 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:27 Denommus: would you be willing to share a project skeleton for an OpenGL ES Android app using ECL? 20:05:43 new: when I'm finished, yes 20:06:43 I've been wanting to get started with Android development for a while and so far Maxima on Android is the only project template I've found for using Lisp 20:07:09 new: are you thinking about using pure OpenGL ES? 20:07:14 yes 20:07:23 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:08:45 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:11:48 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 20:11:49 new: what are you planning to do, exactly? 20:11:55 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:12:31 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:08 Denommus: I don't have any specific plans. I've been wanting to play around with 2D board game development since getting a Nexus 10, and I have an irrational aversion to Java after having to use it professionally 10 years ago 20:13:35 I really liked the UI for the game Letterpress that came out for iOS a little while ago, which was all based on OpenGL ES 20:14:21 also I figure OpenGL is a more stable standard than the platform APIs 20:14:30 new: oh, then using ECL may be ideal. But, personally, I'm using most C++ in the project, Lisp is reserved to some state scripting (I'm inspiring myself on Naughty Dog's State Scripts) 20:14:35 and more portable 20:14:43 *|3b|* should get one of these android lisps set up so i can figure out opengl ES stuff with cl-opengl 20:15:34 |3b|: that would be awesome :) 20:15:55 indeed 20:16:27 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 20:16:34 Does ECL cross-compile from the development host or does it use the bytecode interpreter on the Android device? 20:18:46 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 20:19:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:47 resttime [~rest@99.141.51.186] has joined #lisp 20:20:09 that's a good question, I'm still experimenting 20:20:33 I don't know what should I do if I'd like to cross-compile 20:20:35 let me see 20:22:58 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002891.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:23:36 ... ok, I have no idea if I'm able to create a static library using ECL 20:23:41 *ECL for android 20:27:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:29:19 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:29:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:29:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:32:59 I've got these common lisp bindings: https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro 20:33:30 i'd like to know if there is a way to stop a window from hanging when coming across errors in code 20:34:27 like i will have to call the library's shutdown function to close the display everytime I get a typo or something 20:34:51 or else new windows will keep piling up 20:35:55 <|3b|> unwind-protect might help there 20:36:01 I don't know for that case specifically, but unwind-protect is a thing to use when cleaning up on error 20:36:19 <|3b|> also compile with high debug settings, and you might be able to restart functions that had errors and leave the window running 20:36:39 <|3b|> or add restarts around functions that you are likely to be modifying 20:40:44 <|3b|> for example if you call (DRAW) every frame, call it like (with-simple-restart (continue "continue) (draw)), and if there is an error in DRAW, you can fix it then use the Continue restart to go back to the outer loop, and it will call the fixed version next frame 20:41:14 <|3b|> (the C key in slime debugger calls the continue restart, so that is a particularly convenient name for it) 20:41:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj157.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:42:22 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.168] has joined #lisp 20:44:13 sweet, many thanks 20:44:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:45:46 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:53 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.110.114.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:48:21 For anyone interested in game dev with lisp, you can check out my bindings for the Allegro 5 game programming library 20:49:08 some example code rendering triangle with opengl: https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro/blob/master/Demos/Modern%20OpenGL.lisp 20:50:20 and some screenshots: https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro/tree/master/Screenshots 20:52:57 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:53:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:54:42 *|3b|* notes that there is also a #lispgames channel (not that there is any problem with talking abut that sort of thing here too) 20:54:54 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.190.124.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 Smarty79 [~Smarty79@119.155.10.82] has joined #lisp 20:55:43 so many entities! 20:58:07 -!- resttime [~rest@99.141.51.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:59:48 -!- lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 21:00:21 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 21:01:07 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b1765.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:37 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:04:32 francogrex [~user@194.184-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:04:52 -!- Smarty79 [~Smarty79@119.155.10.82] has left #lisp 21:07:02 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 21:07:21 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:07:24 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:10:09 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 21:10:34 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 21:10:56 -!- b1101 [~b@108-61-55-75ch.openskytelcom.net] has left #lisp 21:11:03 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11:30 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:12:53 new: your worries are correct. I'm not sure how to compile a static library for Android 21:14:12 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:16:14 Denommus: Some time ago you made a comment that CCL would have fatal performance problems wrt to calling Java on Android... what's the issue? 21:17:22 CCL won't even run on Android 4.1+, unless they fixed the issue with Address Space Randomization 21:17:50 Denommus: that's a bummer. It looks like Red Daly figured out how to make it work with iOS, but I haven't looked into how. 21:19:04 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:06 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:21:11 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:22:25 hmm 21:23:57 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 21:24:04 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:06 new: Was there a discussion about that on the ccl list? 21:24:25 Denommus: Some time ago you made a comment that CCL would have fatal performance problems wrt to calling Java on Android... what's the issue? 21:24:33 new: it IS possible to compile a static library for Android, I just don't know how, yet 21:24:41 moore33: no, I just tried it a couple of months ago and couldn't get it to work on anything more recent than 4.0 21:24:52 new: OK. 21:24:56 new: the sample covers that, but I haven't understood it yet 21:24:59 moore33: I'm using ECL 21:25:09 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:25 Denommus: I know... perhaps I am misremembering. 21:26:03 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-016-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:27:50 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:27:52 -!- francogrex [~user@194.184-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:12 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 21:30:12 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Changing host] 21:30:12 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:30:12 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:13 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:13 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:30:13 cYmen_ [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 21:30:36 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:30:42 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:30:42 crappy connection 21:30:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 283 seconds] 21:31:47 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:31:48 -!- Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 21:32:14 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:32:48 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 21:33:30 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 21:39:42 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64FEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:42:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fd7f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:52 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:48:03 iglu [~nick@203-59-240-52.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 -!- milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51:11 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:32 I think I'm starting to understand how ecl works on android 21:58:57 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:47 I'm curious to hear what you're learning 22:04:54 new: I will do a blog post about it once I have things set up 22:05:12 Denommus: great. what's your blog address? 22:05:14 new: for now, I think I must understand the NDK better 22:05:37 new: http://dharmaprogramming.wordpress.com 22:05:48 new: but it's pretty much dead for some time 22:06:02 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-136-139.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:06:49 for now, I'm leaving 22:06:51 goodbye 22:06:54 bye 22:06:55 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 22:07:23 -!- iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:46 iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:26 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:16 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:07 zc00gii [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:42 Wukix` [~user@76-198-128-124.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:24 -!- jimrthy_work [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:45 -!- iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:45 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:53 jimrthy_work [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:06 -!- Wukix [~user@76-198-128-124.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:06 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:29 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj157.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:13:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:39 p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:59 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:51 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:14:53 krrrcks_ [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 22:15:05 -!- krrrcks [~dbr@krrrcks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:06 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:19 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:16:16 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:22 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:44 ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 22:19:05 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:19:37 -!- new [~walker@subtlepath.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:19 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:21:30 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:24 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 22:26:47 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:06 milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-145-213.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:30:30 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 22:30:35 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.154.59] has joined #lisp 22:30:54 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest3124 22:31:22 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-160.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:31:34 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:35:19 -!- Guest3124 [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:24 *jaimef* ponders purchasing mocl 22:37:22 jaimef: Isn't it proprietary? 22:37:51 youlysses: It is proprietary. 22:37:57 thus "purchase" 22:38:17 jaimef: Free-software can be commercialized. 22:39:03 Well all interest I may have had in such a thing, is now gone. :^P 22:39:18 for lack of being free? 22:39:33 jaimef: Yeppers. 22:39:45 k 22:39:51 sort of pricey 22:40:15 james1 [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:23 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:12 jaimef: Again, just to clarify (and I think you got the general point, but many seem to confuse the concept of "free-software and price"), I'm fine with anyone wanting to sell such a thing. :^P 22:42:53 -!- jimrthy_work [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:40 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:45 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:43:50 youlysses: I think anyone born in the last 40 years knows the difference. 22:45:44 jaimef: I run into a ton of "kids" more-or-less (mostly more) my age, who confuse this regular. The ambiguity of the english-language and the existence of things like "freeware", are very apt to confuse individuals, from my experiences. 22:50:12 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:20 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:13 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b1765.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:11:46 new [~walker@subtlepath.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:17 antonv [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 23:17:00 -!- beesmoose [~There@cpe-74-72-32-188.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:17:58 "it costs money, and is unavailable for free in any form" 23:18:11 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.190.124.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:31 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:11 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:22:44 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:59 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:24:37 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:25:25 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:19 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:29:08 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:29:38 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 jaimef: a lot of people born in last 40 years have no idea of difference 23:33:03 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:20 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:31 *jaimef* puts away the strawman 23:35:20 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.76.24] has joined #lisp 23:40:46 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:31 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 23:44:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:48 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:44 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:49:45 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 23:51:48 -!- rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:25 -!- milanj [~milanj@cable-94-189-145-213.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:07 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:43 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.]