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[~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 01:06:54 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:55 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 01:43:15 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-147.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:45 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 01:47:50 antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] has joined #lisp 01:47:57 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:54:32 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:55 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:03 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:06 hi guys 01:57:39 lo guy 01:57:51 i am playing around with a webframework called hh-web. in it, when i try to do a simple: (defun blah ()) it returns that "blah is not of type sequence". 01:58:19 how do i interpret that? it is requiring forms in the type 'sequence' .. does that make sense? 01:58:42 maybe it wants a string? 01:58:47 that is pretty weird, though. 01:59:47 hmm. that sounds right. thanks. 02:00:37 (defun (a blah sequence) ()) ; perhaps ? 02:01:01 more than likely you should check the manual. 02:01:01 But the most asserted way would be to read the doc of that framework. 02:03:19 hmmm ... let me google that. yeah no docs, its super basic. what i am really practicing is my ability to read lisp and understand its syntax. i find that i am able to grasp well formed tutorials but i am running into code examples online that don't fit what i am expecting to see. 02:03:37 well, the defun you describe is not CL's, so 02:03:55 oh! 02:04:34 speaking of which, the one thing i would pay someone to do is write an emacs extention that colours common lisp syntax a single colour so i can tell the difference. 02:04:37 holycow: there's no lisp syntax. 02:04:49 You can't assume anything when reading a sexp. 02:04:56 functions in the spec 02:05:13 The reader can be changed, the current package, all the operators you see may be something different. 02:05:18 holycow: defun is in the spec, but (defun blah ()) is totally legal. 02:05:31 sure, makes sense. 02:05:50 so you're dealing with some spooky other thing. 02:05:52 (|CL|:|SIN| 42) could return -0.91652155, but #\| could also be a reader macro that sends you to hell for having SINned. 02:05:55 for the purposes of leawrning, colour coding the functions from the hyperspec would still be helpful for 'at a glance' kind of inspection 02:06:21 you could get M-x hyperspec-lookup, i guess 02:07:17 With slime you can type M-. after an operator name to jump to the source of it, possibly into the implementation. 02:07:29 (defun M-. should give you the source of that macro. 02:07:51 Vicfred [~anon@187.206.97.129] has joined #lisp 02:08:11 Subject to a correct configuration and a not-misleaded slime. 02:12:35 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:13:03 pjb, give me a small lisp exercise 02:14:19 how to learn lisp 02:14:24 what do you use? 02:14:36 common lisp or scheme or others 02:14:42 prolog 02:14:57 where are some lisp codes 02:16:07 prolog.com 02:18:27 Quadrescence: well, there are exercises from the L-99, or other classical sources. But it may be better to write some small lisp function or program that *you* fancy, rather than random exercises, no? 02:18:42 Quadrescence: https://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/index.html 02:19:07 i haved done l99 and i have drunk a little i am wondering if you had sme interesting exercise 02:19:45 Hey I should update this page, I wrote a sudoku solver recently :-) 02:20:20 I can't stand those dumb puzzle, when I see people doing them, I have to write a program to solve them :-) 02:20:53 Quadrescence: well, there was a discussion of tic-tac-toe and variants in some math blog recently. A nice variant is a initial-grid-less tic-tac-toe. 02:21:19 At the start, you can put your tokens in any place that's consistent with a 3x3 grid with the other tokens. 02:21:39 I read about that variant. I wanted to try to write an AI in lisp 02:21:45 -!- ryankarason [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:21:51 So the first player doesn't know what cell he's playing. And even the second one could leave that freedom to the first in the second turn. 02:22:53 Quadrescence: I recently wrote a little Lisp to play with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turmites 02:22:54 Or, write a simulator of a dronecopter pizza distribution network, using a google map, and "random" orders. 02:23:33 adeht, a friend of mine wrote some JS. Makes a new div cell for every turmite cell 02:31:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.190.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:32:19 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:24 hmm that page has a link to http://www.cs.sjsu.edu/~rucker/bopbook.htm .. now I have to add it to my to-read queue 02:37:54 or http://www.rudyrucker.com/pdf/artificiallifelab.pdf which also has illustrations 02:40:45 thanks 02:42:43 So I'm trying to understand how to "safe references" to objects and not values themselves. I tried doing a poc linked-list to get more familiar with clos and as I supposed, it isn't working: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5843512 02:43:33 adeht: thanks to you, as I didn't know about it before :) 02:44:05 (setf head head) seems like it could be wrong. 02:45:51 ups! sorry about that, now it works to my surpise. Is there a way to inspect objects in memory? Like to see if I'm storing a whole instance or a reference? ) 02:46:41 that doesn't really happen in lisp. 02:46:45 slime has an inspector, though. 02:47:01 M-x slime-inspect 02:47:15 What doesn't happen? storing a whole instance? 02:47:33 yeah. there's not really "references" either. 02:47:43 it's not C++. 02:50:52 what do you mean by not "references" either? That lisp doesn't have the same memory semantics? (I'm aware that they are not the same, and I shouldn't try to equiparate lisp with C++?) 02:51:23 it doesn't have memory in its semantics at all, really. 02:52:23 anyone here do any consulting? 02:52:43 I am wondering if anyone might be willing to create an emacs extention out of: https://github.com/hanshuebner/bknr-web/tree/master/src/htmlize 02:53:09 bknr's solution creates an html document out of lisp code linking back to the hyperspec 02:53:20 i thinkn it might be a useful extension 02:56:32 doesn't eq count as memory semantics (akin to Python's is). It doesn't have any memory 'addressing' semantics. 02:57:13 So in common lisp I shouldn't assume everything is a pointer to an in-memor object? 02:57:32 you shouldn't think of them that way. 02:58:47 so I'm asking the wrong question right? 02:59:04 pretty much 03:01:44 Ok, thanks! One more question. There is nothing inherently wrong with trying to use clos for a binary tree implementation right? 03:01:55 PuercoPop: it's still possible to print out a representation of a tree of course, and yes EQ can serve to detect exact object equality... 03:01:56 nah 03:02:23 PuercoPop: a possibly issue might be performance, but you can take care of that at the profiling stage if necessary 03:02:48 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: honkfestival] 03:04:31 s/possibly/possible/ 03:05:11 phadthai: well I was thinking of doing it more as a learning experience. Maybe later try to make it into a red-black tree. 03:07:29 so I don't think that performace is really an issue 03:08:11 I was answering your question about CLOS though (it's a very powerful dynamic system, on which implementations are still making progress to optimize, contrary to say, simple structures), but I also agree with you about incremental development and improving speed over time 03:09:05 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.69.122] has left #lisp 03:09:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 03:10:36 phadthai: *nods* I was just reading http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Declarations-as-Assertions this morning. Trying to find why :type statements in structs garantees types but not in clos. Being still a WIP sounds like a good reason. 03:11:46 you also have to deal with redefinitions in clos which you don't in structs 03:11:53 also pcl is rather arcane. 03:12:48 pcl? 03:13:13 sbcl's clos implementation. 03:13:28 ah I didn't knew that it was called that way 03:13:47 it's not, usually, since it's implementation detail. 03:14:03 actually only recently I found out about closer-mop, I just figured CLOS was fully standarized 03:14:35 it is. mop is something in addition. 03:15:29 I thought it was a compatibility layer 03:15:51 closer-mop is a compatibility layer for the MOP, which is in addition to CLOS which is part of CL. 03:16:06 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 03:16:22 *PuercoPop* nods 03:17:01 and unfortunately the mop itself is not standard, so indeed implementations which support it vary 03:17:26 i would call mop pseudo-standard 03:17:44 i think it would be a bit unfair to say it is completely unstandardized 03:17:52 yeah, it's way shakier, though. 03:17:58 a work in progress that didn't progress much. 03:19:07 one question, are there not community efforts to promote informal standars akin to peps in python? 03:19:35 there's CDR 03:19:44 and stuff like grey streams 03:19:55 and... bordeaux i guess, and whatever CFFI is 03:20:31 *PuercoPop* nods 03:20:38 PuercoPop: hmm about the earlier question about object/reference, you can assume pretty much that container objects are not automatically re-instantiated or copied unless in general, except when some functions implicitely do it of course 03:20:52 s/unless// 03:22:37 *PuercoPop* nods 03:25:52 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:01 -!- ckoch786__ [~quassel@rrcs-70-60-138-98.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:35:35 -!- Axord [~axo@pool-173-55-67-14.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:37:57 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 03:43:23 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.193.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:31 iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:47:12 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:13 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:45 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.36.221] has joined #lisp 03:49:43 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:49 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:51:42 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:56:30 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 04:00:16 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 04:01:43 is there a standard way to find all class slots for a class? 04:02:11 mop:class-slots 04:02:29 so no standard way 04:02:31 ? 04:02:59 well, closer-mop is a pseudostandard. 04:03:11 fair enough 04:03:13 thanks 04:03:14 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 04:09:08 -!- ether0 [~ether0@72.22.83.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:09:16 ether0 [~ether0@72.22.83.65] has joined #lisp 04:10:20 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:10:21 how do I generate fasls from the .lisp files? I'm trying to generate teh documentaion for the iolib 04:11:06 compile-file should compile a lisp file to fasl, but perhaps there's an asdf definition file? 04:11:23 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:39 there is an asdf definition file 04:12:07 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:35 see http://common-lisp.net/~mmommer/asdf-howto.shtml#sec11 04:12:40 can I use that to generate the fasl? (I'm not even sure what that is, I'm just getting an error saying file not found) 04:14:29 yeah, you can compile systems in asdf. 04:14:36 sounds like you have other problems though. 04:15:33 https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5814ab2f523d0c385419 This is the error I get. I'm using the patched texinfo-docstrings 04:16:10 this is just for the documentation generation, I can load the library just fine 04:18:06 that filename looks a bit wacky, but i dunno whath's going on. 04:18:40 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 04:19:16 well the .lisp version of the files exists 04:19:42 at that filename? in two levels of cache? 04:20:56 ahh I see what you mean, no just the last part, starting from /Users 04:24:17 Where there exists files at that location, but not that one. Weird about why go into .cache twice 04:25:45 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:03 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:28:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:30:19 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 04:31:23 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:08 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: Hey there!] 04:35:50 hmmm 04:36:14 i am trying to print out values of hunchentoot:variablenames to see what values they might be storing in a particular session. 04:37:26 i tried (defun blah () (hunchentoot:*hunchentoot-version*)) (blah) and i error out with The function HUNCHENTOOT:*HUNCHENTOOT-VERSION* is undefined. 04:37:59 well, yeah, you're using a variable as a function. 04:38:03 i read somewhere that i need to use hunchentoot functions to extract values from hunch vars but i'm not googling any clear examples that don't end up calling cl-who and other framework functions 04:38:28 try (format t "~A" hunchencoot:*hunchentoot-version*) 04:38:39 *nod* oh ... ohhhhh. 04:38:59 you are trying to execute *hunchentoot-version* in the code you pasted 04:39:11 (format t "~A" foo) is a wasteful way to write (princ foo) 04:39:26 *PuercoPop* nods 04:39:32 clhs princ 04:39:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 04:39:42 oh right, i remember that from land of lisp 04:40:15 aaaaand there we are. i have seen the light. thanks! 04:40:57 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 04:47:47 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:51:44 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:52:34 pnpuff [~TrafoLa@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 04:53:11 ariak [~user@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:46 b1101 [~b@209.222.18.35] has joined #lisp 05:09:02 -!- antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] 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joined #lisp 05:33:51 Good morning. 05:34:59 protist [~protist@109.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:37:39 Good morning, brother 05:39:51 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 05:40:33 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:40:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:40:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:43:58 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 05:44:22 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 05:53:00 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 05:53:00 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 05:53:00 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 05:55:38 -!- ariak is now known as AriaMK 05:56:18 -!- pnpuff [~coc@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:58:42 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-147.pools.spcsdns.net] has 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connection] 06:47:14 time to get some sleep. lisp is very fun. i feel like i am thinking through the problems instead of trying to remember an enormous amount of arcane details. fun. 06:47:18 nite 06:47:19 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has left #lisp 06:47:49 AriaMK [~user@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:52:38 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:53:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:53:41 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:53:41 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:53:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:54:36 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:54:50 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:54:50 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 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[~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:40:55 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:42:45 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:47 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:44:12 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:44:48 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:10 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:30 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@pppoe231.net137-6.omkc.ru] has joined #lisp 09:52:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:52:31 He 09:52:44 Damn. 09:52:52 Hello everybody. 09:57:30 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 10:00:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:48 How can I update my asdf? When I load lastest version from git repository I get blahblah/.quicklisp/local-projects/asdf/build/asdf.lisp: No such file or directory. What am I doing wrong? 10:01:04 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:01:18 forgetting to do make build/asdf.lisp 10:01:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:01:34 asdf is so advanced it needs another build-system to build itself 10:01:43 Oh crap. 10:02:06 Where can I get it? 10:02:27 get what? 10:02:38 gnu make? 10:02:42 Ah. 10:02:46 I'm idiot. 10:03:04 I read your do make build/asdf.lisp as a text, not a command. 10:03:58 it's homoiconic 10:04:03 ahoops___ [~ahoops_@121.96.14.16] has joined #lisp 10:04:15 -!- ahoops___ [~ahoops_@121.96.14.16] has left #lisp 10:05:13 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:28 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has joined #lisp 10:05:41 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:07:09 (asdf:asdf-version) => "3.0.1.9". Thanks for help. 10:08:37 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:10:03 does anybody know how I can get the composer of a message with cl-irc? 10:13:12 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.89] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:14:45 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 10:14:53 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 10:16:54 bitonic [~user@dyn1195-121.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:18:43 source slot 10:22:46 thanks 10:25:20 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:26:11 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:27:32 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.214.174.185] has joined #lisp 10:27:35 Blkt: pong 10:29:19 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:30:37 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 10:30:54 oudeis [~oudeis@85.64.237.35.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:12 Is it safe to replace default sbcl.core to custom sbcl core or I should prefer using alias? 10:31:48 what do you mean by replace? 10:32:09 move original sbcl.core to somewhere else and put mine there. 10:32:27 why would that be not safe? 10:32:57 unless you're moving it onto a floppy disk 10:32:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:34:01 I just thought that sbcl changed something related to core loading so my usual approach won't work. 10:34:15 what CL implementation is the easiest to port to new platforms? 10:34:35 davorb-cellphone: the one that doesn't have native compilation 10:34:45 davorb-cellphone: clisp or ecl 10:34:58 davorb [~davor@194.47.245.35] has joined #lisp 10:35:17 H4ns: clisp has tons of dependencies though. 10:35:24 davorb-cellphone: ecl definitely 10:35:27 davorb: there is no free lunch 10:35:38 abcl can be ported for free 10:36:09 Nope, the price of this is speed. 10:36:11 davorb: clisp doesn't really have a ton of dependencies 10:37:47 I once compared speed of normal lisp program to normal java program and lisp (sbcl) was about 10 times more efficient. (maybe my examples were just bad) 10:37:59 stassats: you're right, i just checked. it's just 6 of them. i just remember that one of them didn't want to compile on some platform. can't remember which one, os x or arm. 10:38:19 and not all of them are required 10:39:09 hitecnologys: are you trying to say that sbcl is ten times faster than java? 10:39:18 (but don't take it as a suggestion to use clisp, it's horrible ) 10:40:37 Remember that the JVM can take a while to warm up. 10:42:15 H4ns: at least on mine examples sbcl was a lot faster than oracle java. I tested some functions stuff (like reflection) and some i/o and other things and sbcl was about 5-10 times faster. 10:42:47 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:43:07 But that's probably because of JIT, I ran everything just a few times. 10:43:54 i can conjure a benchmark where either can be faster 10:44:50 I don't say that jvm can't be faster than sbcl. 10:45:16 hitecnologys: i'd not make claims about java's speed unless you are pointing at very specific features. in general, it is very fast unless you don't know what you're doing. 10:45:30 then what are you saying? ABCL is slow because it has a poor compiler 10:45:53 and poor run-time 10:46:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:47:00 I'm just trying to say that compiling lisp to jvm byte-code may be stupid idea unless you know what you're doing. 10:47:43 hitecnologys: i'm having very good results with abcl and i'm not sure why you call me stupid for that. 10:48:06 H4ns: I said may be, you just know what you're doing 10:48:31 H4ns: I didn't want to insult anybody =( 10:48:31 so, no true scotsman would use it? 10:51:03 Everybody can use it, I just dislike java so you'd probably better to ignore any claims I make about it. 10:51:08 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-161-8.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 10:51:17 hitecnologys: _or_ you could stop making claims 10:51:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:32 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:51:33 java the language and jvm are different things 10:51:40 hitecnologys: it would be easier to reach your goal of not offending people accidently if you did. 10:51:53 H4ns: yep, that's good idea. 10:52:15 where's the fun in not offending people? 10:52:45 stassats: offense works best if the offender does not make themselves look stupid :D 10:52:49 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:52:52 hitecnologys: offense intended 10:53:03 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:53:27 i guess i should rather eat something to ease my mood. 10:53:44 stassats: of course, but the only implementation of jvm which can actually run every pice of code is oracle one so I just use java as a synonym of oracle jvm. (I should stop doing that definitely) 10:53:48 Is this #lispcaffe? 10:53:58 zolk3ri: apologies 10:53:59 zolk3ri: nope, it's #lisp 10:54:08 zolk3ri: it's #java 11:01:13 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:01:30 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:30 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 11:03:11 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:05:06 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:05:22 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:07:02 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 11:07:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:09:46 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 11:10:38 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 11:10:39 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:10:59 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:11:12 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:18:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:20:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.84.169] has joined #lisp 11:20:31 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.84.169] has quit [Changing host] 11:20:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:22:39 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:24:03 josemanuel [~josemanue@145.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:26:02 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 11:26:06 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:26:08 chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 11:26:12 what does SWANK stand for? 11:26:39 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@85.64.237.35.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:27:11 it seems not to stand for anything. it's capitalized on wikipedia 11:27:31 hm, in the manual it's just Swank 11:28:00 lots of lisp projects are named in caps just because 11:28:26 it was skank, became swank 11:28:55 *chrisdone* updated wikipedia 11:31:51 -!- chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 11:32:36 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:34:12 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:28 oudeis [~oudeis@85.64.237.35.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:48 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 11:37:53 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:49 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 11:40:11 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.214.174.185] has left #lisp 11:41:53 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:57 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:44:03 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 11:45:04 AeroNotix [~xeno@abod173.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:55:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-28-25.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:49 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:59:04 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 12:00:12 (gen-frog) --> °_° 12:00:57 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 12:03:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.2.96] has joined #lisp 12:03:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.2.96] has quit [Changing host] 12:03:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:04:03 I once wrote dick generator. Then I wrote python wrapper to automatically send these dicks to some skype user. It was fun. 12:04:43 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:12 (not for him of course because ~5 msg/s isn't funny at all) 12:05:57 fascinating 12:06:09 Sure 12:06:14 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:16 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:06:23 *jackdaniel* prefers frogs 12:06:39 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:13:09 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:14:31 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:33 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:16:34 raskel [~raskel@86.126.190.30] has joined #lisp 12:20:11 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:20:37 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:07 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:27:13 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:32:31 xecycle [~user@59.78.37.25] has joined #lisp 12:33:23 http://ix.io/6kO --- what do you think of this? I found it really ugly but know not how to improve. 12:33:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:56 just don't do it 12:34:18 stassats: You mean not to improve? 12:34:23 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:34:29 no, don't use such a thing 12:34:58 I think it convenient in some cases. 12:35:58 (lambda (fun1 fun2) (with-funcall (fun1 fun2) (+ (fun1 2) (fun2 1)))) --- something like this. When doing some math this is less confusing, I think. 12:36:06 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has joined #lisp 12:36:34 no, it's very confusing 12:36:49 :/ how? 12:37:39 it defines a non-standard syntax for function calls, so anyone not aware that there may be with-funcall present will not know where those function are coming from 12:37:52 Ah, I can't userstand what's the point of making lambda which funcalls #'function with &rest list. 12:38:08 stassats, sounds like a weak argument 12:38:24 stassats: Well I think this is explicit enough. Just not to use with a long body. 12:38:53 Quadrescence: it doesn't! 12:39:08 hitecnologys: I am yet new to the multiple levels of quoting, so I hacked it out to this ugly stuff. 12:39:57 i don't see how (+ (funcall fun1 2) (funcall fun2 3)) can be confusing 12:40:10 xecycle: your macro expands to #'(lambda (&rest rest) '(funcall function rest)) 12:40:23 especially since it uses only standard operators 12:40:26 stassats: Well this is a simple case. In complex maths the expression may go very long. 12:40:48 if something is long, split it 12:41:00 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.201.101] has joined #lisp 12:41:28 xecycle: (mapcar (curry #'funcall #'function) things) 12:41:39 Splitting is not good if they break up the relations. A math expression can be long, and related. 12:41:56 and why would complex math expression have so much higher order functions? 12:42:51 hitecnologys: I need to read some more on that, thanks. 12:42:51 well, do whatever you want, you asked if it's good, it's not good for interoperability, but you can write in APL with reader-macros and macros if you wish so, just don't share it 12:43:32 funcall isn't an higher order function too? 12:43:43 pnpuff: sure it is 12:43:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:57 stassats: Well I know this part. I am more interested in improving it, however. 12:44:24 "press backspace and hold-it" 12:44:40 :/ 12:45:43 by the way, your macrolet will break if someone will try to use it as #'function 12:45:55 xecycle: I once wrote program that converts s-expressions to html, then I added some syntax sugar to make it look like html, then I added support for parameter=value, then I ended up with expressions like this: (+ 1 2) 12:46:18 xecycle, btw, http://paste.lisp.org/display/137726 12:46:20 xecycle: your macrolet does pretty the same 12:46:28 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 12:46:35 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 12:47:54 Thanks guys. Yes I do think it not solid enough. 12:48:42 Don't worry, I used to write such code too. (and I still do) 12:48:50 Quadrescence: So that letrec already implements something like this? Nice. 12:49:01 yes 12:49:43 xecycle, your with-funcall or w/e would be like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137726#1 12:50:41 Quadrescence: :) Thanks. 12:51:30 hopefully it would be without keyworded loops! 12:51:55 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:52:22 stassats, i guess i am impaired because i find unkeyworded loops unreadable without the hints about what is a loop keyword and what is not 12:52:25 and it's strange seeing LIST and backqoute used at the same time 12:52:39 Aye it is just a list transformation so using mapcar is sufficient. 12:52:46 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@85.64.237.35.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:52:47 Quadrescence: that's because you use keyworded loops too much 12:52:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:52:53 Why anybody cares so much about this keywords in loop? 12:53:02 hitecnologys: what else to care about? 12:53:27 stassats, i hate for no particular reason when you have a backquoted list and most of it is unquoted, especially the first element, but sure, it might be odd style 12:53:29 stassats: I wish I knew 12:53:46 hitecnologys: in the presence of multiple possibilities to do exactly the same thing, there's bound to be a schism 12:54:04 xecycle, and yes it is just a mapcar, which would be twice as unreadable with more nesting 12:54:15 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:56 arguably, (loop #:for i #:in list) is the best choice 12:55:00 Well I do not hate loop. 12:56:07 hitecnologys: and choice is bad, you end up having to deal with different code-bases using different conventions 12:56:24 stassats, maybe one day when my editor makes unkeyworded loops not look like a sloppy soup of symbols, i will refrain, but at the moment, it does not make it look unlike so 12:56:45 it looks like english 12:56:58 you already indent it on different lines 12:57:14 stassats: I see, different conventions is bad thing. My fried once asked me to check his C++ project, and it was like hell for my eyes. 12:57:32 Quadrescence: and i can't believe that you can't use plain symbols, considering many people do that with ease 12:57:59 Quadrescence: but, editor support could be better 12:58:00 yes, i am an unfortunate one. maybe because i read code in a sporadic fashion, not left to right, top to bottom 12:58:16 See the strife coloured monitors have brought onto us? 12:58:26 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 12:58:55 see the strife variable width buffers have brought onto us? 12:59:20 i actually have minimal syntax highlighting, only to make difference between and non-code, i.e. comments and strings, other things are not making anything more clear 13:00:14 provided that indentation is proper 13:01:08 lisp with little highlighting is not so bad 13:01:58 After years of writing code on paper I don't need much colors too, but I prefer some strings and other constant things highlighing. 13:02:34 it's hard to know what is constant in lisp 13:02:50 i.e., not evaluated 13:02:52 Anyway colors look cool when someone looks on your screen over your shoulder 13:03:05 stassats: I mean strings and numbers and comments and stuff 13:03:31 numbers? 13:03:43 Well with long strings coloring will help. Especially those cross lines. 13:03:55 stassats: they are constants, aren't they? 13:04:28 hitecnologys: but why highlight them? strings are clear, so that you don't mistake its contents with code 13:04:58 the same with comments 13:05:10 stassats: I don't highlight them with red, I just like when they are a bit darker than my code. 13:05:17 quoted lists could be the same too 13:05:18 maybe to not mistake numbers with code 13:05:53 Quadrescence: with binary cpu instruction equivalents? 13:05:55 Quadrescence: numbers are code, it's just mine old habbit to highlight them 13:06:15 I probably should get rid of it. 13:06:20 hitecnologys, thanks, i did not know that numbers were code before 13:06:36 Quadrescence: np =P 13:06:57 Quadrescence: they are not code themselves, but parts of the code 13:07:22 stassats, no. but some people read their code differently than you do, and to some people, a quick, more holistic view of code might be nice, especially when you scroll through it. I am willing to bet numerical code can be quickly identified by such a scheme with a quick scroll through 13:08:07 stassats, soon let's have a discussion about pedantry such as the definition of code and the definition of data 13:09:16 Quadrescence: it's perfectly clear that strings can contain things that look like code, but numbers can, but both are part of the code they're in, there's no place for pedantry here 13:09:23 numbers can't 13:09:59 unless you're a fan of line-splitting #36rthismaylooklikecode 13:10:00 It would be terrible for me if a long-long docstring wasn't highlighted. 13:10:10 stassats, if your only goal is to highlight what might look like code, fine 13:10:25 I do not need highlighting with numbers, though. 13:11:00 actually, stassats is right, I agree that you need to highlight anything that may be confused with code 13:11:14 no you dont need to 13:11:20 lisp machines did just fine without it 13:11:39 and where are lisp machines now? huh? 13:11:41 I'm not lisp machine 13:11:52 Some guys need highlighting merely for spell-checking. 13:11:53 stassats, one is on my floor next to me 13:12:03 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:12:13 stassats, one was powered up with Macsyma last weekend to do some macsyma hacking 13:12:16 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:34 i was not asking about their geographical position! 13:12:41 if you are going to blame the demise of lisp machines on lack of syntax highlighting, then you have a sorely mistaken view of history 13:13:44 it's just a symptom of not going with the time! 13:15:59 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:19:22 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:19:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:20:59 -!- Vicfred [~anon@187.206.97.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:21:37 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1195-121.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 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14:57:56 isn't there a symbolicate or something in alexandria? 14:58:05 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:12 and format-symbol 15:02:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-165.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:04:30 yeah, just pulled the alexandria source - thanks. 15:07:36 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:01 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:09:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 15:11:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:23:07 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:24:28 -!- guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:25:53 fabian_ [52b61627@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.22.39] has joined #lisp 15:25:57 How do I define/generate two function within a macro, if I use multiple `(defun statements then only the last one is shown with macroexpand-1 ? 15:28:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:30:25 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:30:50 -!- fabian_ [52b61627@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.182.22.39] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:31:55 bejer: progn 15:34:29 didn't seem to work the way I used progn: (defmacro ... (progn `(defun .. `(defun .. 15:34:55 bejer: you need to expand to a progn form.. `(progn (defun ...) (defun ...)) 15:35:33 bitonic [~user@dyn1218-36.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:36:11 okay, thought that would then place the functions inside some scope. 15:36:28 bejer: progn is a top-level form 15:36:44 *can appear as 15:38:10 clhs 3.2.3.1 15:38:10 Processing of Top Level Forms: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm 15:38:16 see 3 15:38:37 guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:41:39 okay, thanks 15:42:16 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 15:42:57 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-146-148.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:29 billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-138-156.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-138-156.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:29 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:51:07 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 15:51:18 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:52:00 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 15:52:03 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-228-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:53:57 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:31 zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:58:23 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:30 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 15:58:30 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 15:58:30 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 15:58:56 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:59:47 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-82-80-143-7.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:54 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has left #lisp 16:01:07 -!- zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:03 The symbols that are created with either alexandria:format-symbol or alexandria:symbolicate end up being surrounded by | e.g. |my-symbol-name| ? 16:05:07 how can I query quicklisp to find out how many projects depend on a certain project? 16:05:14 bejer: they *print* like that 16:05:28 bejer: you need to upcase them 16:05:32 but their names do not. (It's because you have made symbols whose names include lowercase characters) 16:05:43 oh 16:06:14 if you ask what (char (symbol-name '|my-symbol-name|) 0) is, it will be #\m not #\| 16:07:20 bejer: (alexandria:format-symbol t "~:@(something-or-~a~)" "other") 16:07:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:08:17 but like Krystof says, that's only the way they're printed. Keep in mind, though, that (defun foo ...) and (defun |foo| ...) define different functions, though. 16:10:27 yeah it complained that it couldn't locate a variable because it generated the wrong symbol, but it appears to work now with uppercase names - thanks 16:11:45 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:15:57 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:17:02 Are the "symbols" returned by TYPE-OF considered to be in the CL package? Or in some separate type namespace? 16:18:26 Odyessus: same as any other symbol. 16:19:10 pkhuong: thanks. 16:19:47 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 16:21:39 zickzackv [~faot@e179128048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:22:35 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-82-80-143-7.static.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:27:34 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1218-36.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:27:45 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:03 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:33:40 Odyessus: symbols are not considered to be in the CL package. They have, or they have not CL as their home package. They are, or they are not exported from the CL package. And they are, or they are not visible inside the CL package (from being exported from some package that is on the used list of the CL package). 16:34:06 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 16:34:19 Odyessus: (symbol-package (let ((type (type-of 42))) (if (symbolp type) type (first type)))) 16:35:12 pjb: Hmm. That's kinda of what I remembered, namely that type "symbols" are orthogonal to "normal" symbols. 16:35:33 Again that does not mean anything. 16:35:46 There are no type symbols vs normal symbols. 16:35:51 There are only symbols. 16:36:06 Ok. 16:36:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:49 So for a type of (unsigned-byte 8) what is the home package of UNSIGNED-BYTE? 16:36:53 (defpackage "YO" (:export "T") (:use)) (deftype yo:t () '(or integer cons)) (typep 42 'yo:t) 16:37:16 Odyessus: (describe 'unsigned-byte) 16:37:27 lduros` [~user@pool-98-115-48-162.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:28 Not at a repl. 16:37:39 m| 16:37:44 But, yes, there is some exploring I need to do... 16:38:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:38:35 (defstruct yo::s a b c) (type-of (make-s :a 2)) --> yo::s 16:39:11 pjb: For DEFSTRUCT, I would expect that. 16:39:16 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has quit [] 16:39:27 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-98-115-48-162.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:32 The point is that types can be denoted by any symbol! 16:39:42 (deftype :even-a-keyword () 'integer) 16:39:54 I guess I am wondering about the "atoms" described in CLtL2 chapter 4. 16:39:57 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:40:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 But "all" my naïveté can be helped by a little work with a repl... 16:41:33 Atom is anything that's not cons. 16:41:51 Right. Sorry. I was imprecise. 16:41:55 (atom (make-s :a 42)) --> T 16:43:34 I guess I meant "all the atoms that are not obvious numerical in type descriptors" (like vector, string, base-string, etc.) 16:44:21 s/numerical/numerics/ 16:44:28 Friggin' iPad. 16:44:34 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-146-148.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:31 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:48:13 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:30 -!- guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:49:04 well, obviously, the #\* characters in (vector * *) are not multiplication. 16:49:26 they're symbols. 16:49:49 (list 'vector '* '*) => (vector * *), it's that simple. 16:50:21 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 16:51:41 Symbols whose home package is CL? 16:52:06 you can define types in other packages. 16:52:42 So that "unspecified cardiaiality" and "multiplicative group" are sort of overloaded? 16:52:48 Odyessus: the same symbol can be used for multiple things. 16:53:15 you can define your own types, named with symbols in your own package!!! 16:53:24 H4ns: ok. I accept that. 16:54:00 Odyessus: so what is your question? 16:54:13 pjb: More concerned about builtin types at the moment. 16:54:47 (deftype my-package:my-type (arg1 arg2 arg3) ) (typep my-value '(my-package:my-type my-arg * 42)) 16:55:05 well if they're "built in" they're in the CL package because that's pretty much what built in means. 16:55:08 Odyessus: well, built-in types often have names that are not in the CL package. 16:55:10 H4ns: context would take longer then I currently have. But check out http://bitbucket.org/easye/seigniorage/bitcoin.n3 for what I am working through. 16:55:44 guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:55:55 Odyessus: 404. but why are you concerned with the home package of anything? you don't normally need to worry, so maybe you're doing something wrong? 16:55:59 Err https://bitbucket.org/easye/seignorage/src/319c89b4e0895c8a19bee5a2cafe1eeb43701afd/bitcoin.n3?at=default 16:56:17 Well, I am working on a mapping to Lisp types. 16:56:45 Real "theoretical" and uniformed on my part at the moment. 16:57:13 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:57:22 But thanks for the replies. I will educate myself more before troubling #l 16:57:33 #lisp more. 16:58:47 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 I guess I wonder what one can do with n3 allowing parenthesis to describe RDF lists. 16:59:33 And I am working through the bitcoin network protocol to figure out how far one could go. 16:59:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:00:36 Essentially I hope to compile encoded/decoders from a future version on that document. 17:01:14 s/encoded/encoders/ 17:01:25 Whether it is worth the effort is the question. 17:02:46 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:37 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.110] has joined #lisp 17:09:21 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:49 -!- rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:13 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.58.226.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:13:15 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:15:59 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:16:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:17:44 The basic idea is that RDF will allow me to compare implementations. 17:19:33 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.93] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 17:22:18 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:22:19 -!- rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:46 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:53 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:30:06 rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 17:30:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:50 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 17:31:39 -!- rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:53 ckoch786_ [~quassel@rrcs-70-60-138-98.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:39 I'm struggling with doing something like (defconstants '(some symbol)) and define each symbol as a constant, each value being 0, 1, 2, etc. Is it even possible, considering that constants are defined at compile-time? 17:35:12 Ralt: you'll need a macro for that. 17:35:12 and, well, I'm struggling with a basic concept which is to make loops in macros, based on the list I get as input. Is it possible too? 17:35:26 H4ns: oh, I already started writing the macro 17:35:28 Ralt: entirely 17:35:46 let me paste some code... 17:35:54 paste.lisp.org 17:36:00 (defmacro defconstants (&rest names) `(progn ,@(loop for i from 0 for name in names collecting `(defconstant ,name ,i))))? 17:36:21 something like this, yes 17:36:28 I have to understand it now :-) 17:37:32 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 17:38:07 this is what I came up with http://paste.lisp.org/display/137731 17:38:15 but it didn't work out quite well. 17:38:24 yeah, no. 17:38:28 Ralt: your macro needs to return the expansion 17:38:34 macros expand into code. you have to return the code that does what you want. 17:38:43 I see 17:38:53 and the `(defconstant) doesn't do that? 17:38:56 in the dolist? 17:39:11 No. that's just like having (dolist (...) (list 'defconstant c nb)) 17:39:26 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: Hey there!] 17:39:26 the list just doesn't go anywhere, see. 17:39:33 yeah 17:39:38 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 17:39:51 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:40:04 I guess some (loop for ,c in ,constants collect `(defconstant ,c ,nb)) would work better? 17:40:23 Ralt: what bike pasted would work better 17:40:33 Ralt: look at it closely and understand what it does. 17:41:10 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:41:21 yup, I see what it does 17:41:29 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:41:38 but I don't see why using the example I just showed doesn't work 17:41:59 Ralt: because it does not have a backquote in the beginning, to begin with 17:42:01 it's kinda easier to understand if it got out of my head 17:42:20 Ralt: and if it had a backquote in the beginning, it would not work either. 17:42:25 , is an error outside of a backquote. 17:42:28 H4ns: yeah, but I want to loop in the macro to generate backquoted code 17:42:42 Ralt: no, you don't want that. 17:42:57 uh? 17:43:15 I want to generate a defconstant per symbol, why wouldn't I want that? 17:43:26 Ralt: backquoting is just a syntactic nicety to make writing macros easier, because it allows you to make your macroexpansions look like straight code. 17:43:43 Ralt: yes, you want to generate a bunch of defconstant forms wrapped in a progn. 17:44:00 I didn't especially want a progn tbh 17:44:06 yeah you do. 17:44:10 Ralt: right. but you need it. 17:44:15 you want to do multiple things. that's a progn. 17:44:45 Bike: this code doesn't need a progn, why would the generated code do? https://github.com/Ralt/mdtransform/blob/master/src/lexer.lisp#L7-L14 17:44:47 Ralt: your defmacro, which is a function, can only return one value. 17:44:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:56 H4ns: oh I see now 17:45:55 well, thanks for the guidance people. 17:47:53 -!- zickzackv [~faot@e179128048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:50:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:50:12 I really don't understand how ,@ works in this case 17:51:31 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:54 it works just like on other cases 17:52:08 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:52:13 yeah, I just need to get used to it I guess. 17:52:23 practice makes perfect, they say... 17:52:42 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:43 there's not much to get used to, it just splices the list in 17:53:25 you can't use (progn ((defconstant ..) (defconstant ..))), so, you splice that list 17:53:37 I'll have the "ha-ha" moment at some time I guess 17:53:43 getting a valid (progn (defconstant ..) (defconstant ..)) 17:53:58 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:13 it's just that the word "splice" doesn't have a clear meaning in french 17:54:24 so I can't relate to it and think "oh, yeah" 17:54:32 i just gave you an example 17:54:50 yes, saying "so, you splice that list" 17:55:24 no, that's not all i said 17:55:34 i can give you an example you can run 17:55:45 I see the example, I kinda get it, but I don't fully understand it 17:55:54 cf. `(progn ,(make-list 3 :initial-element '(defconstant a 10))) and `(progn ,@(make-list 3 :initial-element '(defconstant a 10))) 17:56:07 what do you mean by "fully understand?" 17:56:15 on what level? on quantum level? 17:56:32 Ralt: maybe you want to copy and paste what stassats just typed into your repl 17:56:48 H4ns: yep, I'll do that 17:56:58 -!- guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 17:56:59 stassats: I mean that I can understand when someone shows me, but I can't reproduce 17:58:10 and the only difference I see between , and ,@ is one more parenthese around the , 17:58:17 the only? 17:58:21 there should be another? 17:58:38 a dragon flying through your nose or something? 17:58:43 Ralt: try (progn ((print 'he) (print 'he))) vs. (progn (print 'he) (print 'he)) 17:58:53 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 17:58:54 nope 17:59:00 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:08 what I don't get is why (make-list 3 :ini...) is not part of the generated code 17:59:19 because of the comma. 17:59:26 you either don't understand a thing, or not understand something in particular 17:59:27 so, what is it? 17:59:38 well I guess they're related 17:59:45 guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:59:48 Ralt: i think you really need to read a text on macros. 18:00:03 so, you don't understand backqoute at all 18:00:07 Ralt: pcl has some coverage, and 'on lisp' is very thorough 18:00:15 H4ns: I've actually read both books 18:00:15 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:35 Ralt: then you'll need to read them again, as sad as it may seem 18:00:37 rk[imposter] [~rkimposte@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 18:00:39 then compare `(a b (list 1 2)) and `(a b ,(list 1 2)) and `(a b ,@(list 1 2)) 18:00:54 if you still don't get it afterwards, then i give up 18:01:11 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:01:46 well, I'll play with that and reread some books if necessary. Thanks. 18:01:52 if you may think that , gets rid of "list", use `(a b ,(+ 9 11)) instead 18:02:00 .. 18:02:03 I'll stop bothering you now :) 18:02:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:03:28 if you want to understand it "fully", then it'll be converted to (list 'a 'b (+ 9 11)) 18:03:50 and `(a b ,@(list 1 2)) to (list* 'a 'b (list 1 2)) 18:03:57 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:20 -!- Kruppe is now known as Guest22771 18:04:36 `(a b ,@(list 1 2) c d) to (append (list 'a 'b) (list 1 2) (list 'c 'd)) 18:04:42 well I think I get it, but then when I start writing some more-than-basic macros, I'm not getting anywhere 18:05:22 ` is grrrr8 18:05:58 I wrote this perfectly fine macro: https://github.com/Ralt/mdtransform/blob/master/src/lexer-impl.lisp#L24-L27 but then struggled with the defconstants one 18:06:08 so I don't really know where I'm at. 18:06:36 "perfectly fine" well 18:06:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:53 :D 18:06:56 well, it works :P 18:06:59 by the way, it's not considered a good style to have such a defconstants macro 18:07:22 oh, it initializes to 0 to 10, alright then 18:07:33 yeah that's the thing 18:07:47 writing 0, 1, 2, etc seemed not right in the business code. 18:07:56 what you have will work fine 18:08:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.247.82] has joined #lisp 18:08:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.247.82] has quit [Changing host] 18:08:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:08:13 afk 18:08:19 if only you split different loop clauses on their own lines 18:08:59 and your deflexer is broken, compared to what i showed you 18:09:08 it can't be redefined 18:09:52 and using lambda makes for sour backtraces 18:11:20 and since you're using characters, you don't need to use :test #'equal 18:11:36 100 seconds til mocl release 18:12:23 will it be televised? 18:12:28 yes 18:12:58 -!- Guest22771 [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:17 2 18:13:21 3 18:13:22 2 18:13:22 i recently watched the A350 first flight, maybe this will be as interesting 18:13:22 1 18:13:23 0 18:13:43 up 18:13:49 ups 18:13:54 "0 seconds remaining" 18:13:57 0 seconds remaining 18:13:59 fail 18:14:00 and thats all? 18:14:17 *sykopomp* starts refreshing nonstop. 18:14:22 perhaps it's utc? 18:14:24 francogrex [~user@194.184-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:14:35 well, we can't say it's fail 18:14:42 nothing fails 18:14:50 it would be pretty funny if the folks implementing a lisp make that sort of mistake 18:15:10 for UTC, it's 4 hours remaining 18:15:13 I'm also disappointed that they're not giving me negative seconds remaining. 18:15:18 var release = new Date('2013-06-23T18:13:20Z'); 18:15:34 ok, so, it's accounted for UTC 18:15:36 if (remain < 0) remain = 0; 18:15:55 I heard that ccl on armv6 was available, but couldn't find the link (the ccl binaries I found were all for v7). Anyone has the web link for v6 binaries? 18:15:56 TADA 18:16:07 and i wanted to make wager if it'll be a dud or not, but didn't have time in a 100 seconds 18:16:14 refresh again 18:16:17 it's up 18:16:37 lol "Paul Graham's "Secret Weapon"" 18:16:56 it lied to me, there's already a bad first impression 18:17:21 nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:30 i'm tempted 18:18:37 so... how does it actually deal with android? Do you still need a bunch of java nonsense boilerplate? 18:18:43 200$ is the second bad impression 18:19:00 how dare people try to make a living. 18:19:01 sykopomp: yes. you can call into lisp from java and back. 18:19:44 ah, it's llvm-based 18:19:49 199$, not negligible as I wanted 18:19:54 there's no word on what it's based, is it an in-house implementation? 18:20:00 if it was 7$ 18:20:01 stassats: llvm 18:20:12 it is probably ecl based 18:20:13 sykopomp: i mean on what cl implementation 18:20:23 I don't think there's any existing CL implementations that use LLVM, but I guess it could be based on ECL 18:20:25 i wouldn't trust a new cl implementation 18:20:37 :) 18:20:37 even things like ecl and abcl are struggling to get CL right 18:20:39 I want to try it 18:20:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:05 new implementations won't even support simple things like cffi :\ 18:21:11 anything other than thes?: http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/trunk/androidarm/ccl/ 18:21:15 stassats: yes, but these CLs are developed in spare time, while mocl was developed 2 years full time 18:21:33 by 2 persons if I understand right 18:21:37 antonv_: by how many persons? with what background? 18:22:09 -!- rk[asdf] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has left #lisp 18:23:08 don't remember about background 18:23:19 jcp` [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:44 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:23:46 that page doesn't have enough information to justify 200$ 18:23:58 yes 18:24:04 that page doesn't have enough information to trust a binary without full source 18:24:08 but refund is guaranteed! 18:24:09 free binary* 18:24:10 gadjo [~gggg@109.102.72.188] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 withing 30 days 18:24:35 within 30 days, they'll be in hawaii and their shell corporation will have been shut down. 18:24:52 sykopomp: implying there's so many people interested in lisp 18:25:21 sykopomp: this is slander 18:25:31 this is irc 18:26:03 I will buy it 18:26:06 tomorrow 18:26:22 also, this is freenode 18:26:28 I'd love to learn more about mocl, though. Even though I'm more likely to be excited about androidccl 18:26:32 and then return back 18:26:36 I want to try it 18:26:42 ah yes, technically not really for discussing non-foss 18:27:40 there's not even a screenshot! 18:28:21 definitely a scam 18:28:37 what's the state of androidccl anyway? 18:29:03 not officially supported, works alright with what i tried it 18:29:16 -!- jcp` [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 18:29:24 not officially as in there's no any kind of priority 18:29:36 if you pay, i'm sure that can be reconsidered 18:29:39 sykopomp: scam? what on earth are you talking about? 18:29:57 luis: there's no screenshots, so it must be fake 18:30:34 sykopomp: the SBCL page doesn't have any screenshots either does it? :) 18:30:42 and, androidccl is not integrated into java in any way 18:30:48 luis: but it's free and has sources! 18:31:04 sure it corrupts your files, but look how fast it is! 18:31:06 and is widely used 18:31:16 francogrex: on phones? 18:31:23 no 18:31:23 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:31:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:47 screenshot is on the top of the page 18:32:07 antonv_: paste address pls 18:32:16 http://wukix.com/mocl 18:32:38 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[test] 18:32:40 who is the developer? 18:32:42 -!- rk[test] is now known as ryankarason 18:32:50 just wait till all phones are on intel atoms, no need to port SBCL to anything 18:33:01 zz_pellegrino [~pellegrin@85.17.26.2] has joined #lisp 18:33:02 jewel: one of them is wes henderson 18:33:09 antonv_: looks photoshopped to me 18:33:11 -!- zz_pellegrino is now known as pellegrino 18:33:31 this is strange! I was just reading about some discussions on mocl a few days ago and there was a plan for open source! 18:33:40 ASau``` [~user@p4FF96CC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:58 francogrex: i guess they want to try making a living off it first. 18:34:14 francogrex: Wes Henderson. Here's his presentation from ECLM 2013: http://wukix.com/dist/mocl_eclm2013.pdf 18:34:32 a free license for people developing lisp libraries would be a good step 18:34:54 stassats: makes sense 18:35:03 send them this idea 18:35:13 stassats: have you asked for it? i have free eval version. 18:35:13 i don't develop lisp libraries 18:35:20 i only post snarky comments on irc 18:36:57 not too excited 18:37:09 H4ns: have you tried it? 18:37:33 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:37:44 -!- ASau`` [~user@p4FF9635C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:37:48 antonv_: a bit, yes, but i got distracted. it seems to work according to what the short readme said that came with it. 18:38:08 H4ns: any UI libraries/bindings included? 18:38:42 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:38:42 antonv_: i'm not sure if libraries/bindings is the right word, but you can somehow interact with the platform ui, yes. 18:39:00 antonv_: the example source code was missing in the beta, so i could not see enough to really tell. 18:39:04 do you have to install a native binary on the phone? is that harder than a normal app? 18:39:31 jewel: no, it just generates applications that you then run on the phone. 18:39:59 are they 50MB in size? 18:40:01 so dalvik bytecode for Android? 18:40:22 jewel: no, machine code on android and ios 18:41:05 or does it have some common run-time? or compiles only what you need? can you use EVAL or COMPILE? 18:41:42 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:41:59 it compiles what is needed by the program. i'm not sure about eval or compile, but i don't think they're available. 18:42:07 you can't have them in ios apps anyway 18:42:26 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:42:41 perhaps a good idea is to have a manual online.. like lispworks/allegro 18:43:05 yeah, a manual would actually be a good idea :) 18:43:23 have to make do with a picture of pg for now 18:44:01 the pg picture is really a bit distasteful :/ 18:44:14 is it actually legal? 18:44:35 using another person's image for promotional purposes? 18:45:00 PG is the best small. 18:45:04 -!- pellegrino [~pellegrin@85.17.26.2] has left #lisp 18:45:22 yeh I'd imagine that although he thinks SETF is like Health Food That Tastes Good (TM), he still wouldn't like to be seen as promoting a CL implementation 18:46:55 *stassats* waits for it to end up on HN 18:47:08 normal picture 18:47:17 stassats: right! 18:47:21 I will post 18:47:30 antonv_: well, it's not your picture, of course it's normal for you 18:47:34 too late 18:48:15 my picture will not be so convincing :) 18:48:22 anyway, someone has already posted to HN 18:48:28 BitPuffin [~quassel@193.13.104.175] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 antonv_: why don't i see it? 18:48:47 check the "new" link 18:48:56 ah 18:49:40 -!- guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 18:50:01 pkhuong: ping? 18:50:14 only if together with pg... 18:50:21 flip214: pong 18:50:36 guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:50:49 -!- guilhon [~textual@177.207.67.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 18:51:27 I've got a question about your current blog post. 18:51:42 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:51:53 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:52:12 is "ab(cd|e)*fg" a RE matching abcdefg? I'd have thought that abcdcdcdfg or abeeefg is allowed, but not such a match. 18:52:20 But very probably I'm just wrong, again. 18:53:23 yeah, that matches. 18:53:26 flip214: it'd even match abecdfg 18:53:31 * is zero is or more 18:53:41 it's not "select the first one, and then do more" 18:53:50 s/ is// 18:53:53 you're thinking of ab(cd)*|e*fg 18:54:28 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 18:54:31 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:59 Bike: missing a paren, ab((cd)*|e*)fg, but yes. 18:55:14 Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:55:29 is there enough of lisp left in clojure, or is clojure totally different now ? 18:55:36 too late in the evening, perhaps. thanks a lot to everyone involved, INCLUDING pkhuong for writing such nice blog posts. 18:55:59 ph88: enough 18:56:07 ph88: but you may also want to try Mocl 18:56:14 ph88: http://wukix.com/mocl 18:56:29 ph88: isnt paranthesis and macros enough LISP for you ;P? 18:56:38 parenthesis* 18:56:47 this is very new to me 18:56:53 are there web frameworks for lisp ? 18:56:59 ph88: tons of them 18:56:59 flip214: rather (?:...) 18:57:13 ph88: basically, everybody writes their own :) 18:57:28 ph88: Clojure got a few atleast. 18:57:29 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:57:46 *stassats* wonders how much antonv_ was paid to promote mocl 18:57:47 so things like url routing and http requests and responses are easy in lisp ? 18:58:13 stassats: yes. but the blog post was not about capturing, only matching. 18:58:20 depends on the implementation. In compojure it is rather easy 18:58:26 ph88: there is restas, if you want a url router. 18:58:48 H4ns: ph88 more presicely cl-routes 18:59:00 the library for URL routing 18:59:03 restas includes it 18:59:04 ok 18:59:20 what about full-stack web frameworks ? 18:59:34 cl-routes mimics Rails routes 18:59:40 ph88: a few exist, but none has a lot of traction 18:59:49 ph88: thinking only CL or? 19:00:00 Foxboron: this is #lisp, not #clojure 19:00:07 ph88: there's weblocks, and dwim.hu 19:00:13 ph88: probably more 19:00:22 H4ns: yes, but the channel name is afterall #lisp, not #commonlisp. People can be confused. 19:00:32 Foxboron: look at the topic then 19:00:45 Foxboron: we unconfuse them 19:00:50 -!- Trenif [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:00:52 Foxboron: this channel is about common lisp, specifically. is your confusion cured? 19:00:57 Ralt: boo! macros! 19:01:05 sometimes to the extent of them running away crying and writing angry blog-posts 19:01:36 pjb: bu-bu-bu-but it's for good reasons! 19:01:43 so has anyone actually seen mocl in action, or is it now just upgraded from vaporware to vaporware with a pricetag? 19:01:53 H4ns: i never had any confusion, i was merly asking if someone else had any confusion. ph88's first question was if clojure is enough lisp, which IMO can give a signal he might be talking LISP in general. 19:01:59 jasom: it works for some value of works 19:02:01 jasom: you can pay and find out 19:02:05 Ralt: don't be afraid of macros. 19:02:07 stassats: haha 19:02:22 Ralt: you just seem to lose all your means when you hear "macro" or "defmacro". 19:02:32 Ralt: macros are just normal lisp functions. No difference. 19:02:45 Ralt: so if you need a loop, just write a loop. 19:02:54 yeah, I got an "ha-ha" moment 10 minutes ago 19:03:00 Stages of lisp developer: 1) "I can't do macros" 2) "Ooh, lets use macros for everything" 3) some middle ground 19:03:04 we'll see if it fares well in real programs. 19:03:08 -!- francogrex [~user@194.184-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:15 Ralt: code is data. If you can write a function that returns a list, then you can write a macro because that's exactly the same thing. 19:03:16 ph88: check out my work in progress turorials on lisp web development http://lispwebtales.ppenev.com/ 19:03:22 Foxboron: i don't know ... Clojure seems the new trend ... the rest seems old and dusty ... 19:03:50 ph88: we're the old & dusty crowd 19:03:57 ph88: i can completely understand that. 19:04:09 ph88: many people here are uninterested in Clojure because there's been a half-dozen "new trend" lisps in the past 20 years, and none of them have lasted 19:04:23 ph88: old and dusty is a feature in Common Lisp :) 19:04:28 ye i thought so, that's perfectly alright ... 19:04:47 just trying to see what this is all about and what i can do with it 19:04:53 jasom: can you name any that lasted more than 2 years? 19:05:08 newLISP is still alive, isn't it? 19:05:14 ph88: write programs, earn money, buy booze, get wasted 19:05:14 and arc is still used in HN? 19:05:25 sykopomp: yes it is. 19:05:29 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:29 scheme's are lisps... and racket is alive and well 19:05:40 racket is not scheme 19:06:02 i got impressed after reading this story ... http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html ... it's 12 years old though ... but maybe lisp is still "undiscovered gold" 19:06:02 stassats: i dont see how he implied that in his sentence. 19:06:07 stassats: he didn't say it was. 19:06:32 minion: tell ph88 about pcl 19:06:32 ph88: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:06:39 I tried to separate those thoughts, apparently I didn't do a well enough job 19:06:44 pjb: but yes, btw, macros were something I thought too much because they acted before compile time... 19:06:54 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:58 this channel is super friendly to say the least ^^ 19:06:59 alright, then i'll say not everybody agrees that scheme is a lisp 19:07:02 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 i can contradict any statement, no sweat 19:07:24 :) 19:07:57 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:58 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:13 adeht: you think Practical Common Lisp is a better book the OnLisp ? 19:08:26 onlisp is not a beginner book 19:08:30 ph88: for starting with Common Lisp, yes 19:08:45 onlisp is the worst choice to start with 19:08:52 SICP? 19:08:59 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:09:01 SICP isn't about common lisp at all 19:09:10 ph88: Graham also wrote another book about CL called "ANSI Common Lisp".. that book is also suitable for beginners (it was my first one, actually) 19:09:20 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:09:25 there's cl version of it! 19:09:33 I know, but it is still a good book for beginner, and getting an intro for LISP. @stassats 19:09:36 google for bendersky! 19:09:39 s/bgeinner/beginners 19:09:54 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:08 good intro is still GENTLE! 19:10:13 and it won't teach you how to write programs in Common Lisp even if its examples were written in it 19:10:21 then some chapters from PAIP 19:10:32 Foxboron: sicp is an intro book the same way a dirt bike is a tricicle 19:10:46 ok and why common lisp over the other dialects ? (especially clojure) 19:10:47 then some monkeybook 19:10:59 pavelpenev: i'd argue it is relative. 19:11:01 then some PG ansi-cl 19:11:01 ph88: this channel is about common lisp, that's why 19:11:20 CLHS in the meantime! 19:11:43 ph88: that is a decision you have to make yourself 19:11:43 ph88: what stassats said :) you won't get an unbiased aswer here 19:11:49 ph88: i really doubt you will find people vouching up other dialects of LISP here. 19:11:50 then PG onlisp, then DH LOL 19:11:51 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: NihilistDandy] 19:11:51 There's a new version of the "Introduction to Symbolic Computation" book coming out, which I always thought was fantastic. 19:12:31 SICP is more CS with scheme 19:12:43 chu: whoa really? 19:12:55 is it still CL, or is it jumping the python shark, too? :) 19:12:57 isn't it already? 19:12:58 Yeah, blew my mind too. 19:13:00 but if you get the syntax right, you can turn it into cl too, and there's already a vesion out there..... 19:13:04 ph88: you can try ask "Why is Common Lisp awsome?", then the equalent in #clojure and look at the response. Tho there are some good stackoverflow answers regarding that. 19:13:14 fabster [55111f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.17.31.120] has joined #lisp 19:13:27 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 19:13:38 you can buy it already 19:13:43 ok guys thx very much 19:13:48 oh neat 19:13:59 implementations book is the lil schemer rom quinneck or so 19:14:00 but if you don't want to, the old pdf is still fine 19:14:04 minor revisions? I wonder if that means he updated it to be ANSI CL 19:14:08 Ralt: if you've used static programming languages, then perhaps before writing a lisp macro, you should be made to write a pre-processor for your favorite language. 19:14:47 There's no magic in a pre-processor. No more in a macro. 19:16:35 No one is right! Everyone is wrong! 19:16:52 i don't think so 19:16:54 nah 19:16:55 hitecnologys: Everything is relative! There is no truth! 19:17:02 (just kidding) 19:17:20 i think everybody, besides myself, are wrong 19:17:38 Yes, because it is relative :D 19:17:45 stassats: you are not a lying greek, are you? ;) 19:18:08 -!- Iuz [~Iuz@unaffiliated/iuz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:18:43 flip214: whether i say no or yes, how you wouldn't be able to tell anyway 19:19:46 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:20:09 stassats: no, but if you had a brother and one of you was always telling the truth, the other always lying, and I'm allowed a question, then I'd know. 19:20:09 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:12 the brother is not in #lisp, so you can ask him 19:21:16 but I guess nowadays there'd be just a fuzzy answer, like "0.5" 19:21:28 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 19:21:48 flip214: I just forgot it, what was the right question? 19:22:11 the right answer is "off-topic", sorry for encouraging it 19:22:25 ok 19:23:32 hitecnologys: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=one+liar+one+truth 19:25:34 Iuz [~Iuz@unaffiliated/iuz] has joined #lisp 19:25:47 flip214: I already found it, I just didn't know what to google 19:27:51 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:28:27 spon [~wat@h197.27.55.139.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:31:10 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 19:31:49 LOL: Weblocks - "made with alien technology" 19:34:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:58 ph88: that is an informal lisp moto: http://lisperati.com/ 19:42:09 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.116.236] has joined #lisp 19:42:40 ph88: er http://lisperati.com/logo.html I meant 19:43:01 eheh :P 19:43:06 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:44:15 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:45:28 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:55 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:49:15 zickzackv [~faot@e179128048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:51:04 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:15 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:12 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:02 Gr1zzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-342-84.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:59:33 mnemotic [~niko@46.109.168.33] has joined #lisp 20:04:35 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:05:15 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:36 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:05 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:50 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:54 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:14:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-129-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:30 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 20:14:45 I'm trying to create bindings using CFFI (latest), and I'm running in some problems that I think could be related to returning struct by value. Here's a sniplet with bindings. At the bottom is the error CCL throws at me on the preceeding invocation. http://paste2.org/AkDe4Nxv 20:15:40 I'm pretty new to CL. 20:15:53 -!- sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:58 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:17:07 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 20:17:14 Any hints on what I could be doing wrong and how to fix it would be very much appreciated. :) 20:18:03 icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:20 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:00 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:25:49 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002891.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:26:08 -!- fabster [55111f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.17.31.120] has left #lisp 20:26:28 chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 20:26:37 how many clients can a swank server accept? 20:27:19 how many you want 20:27:28 2? 20:27:46 if that's what you want 20:28:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abod173.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:28:08 i see. so does it eval, e.g. for the repl, on separate threads, or is it single threaded? 20:28:31 if you want several clients, it's best to use a multi-threaded connection 20:31:20 Good night! 20:31:44 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@pppoe231.net137-6.omkc.ru] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 20:32:30 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 20:33:37 <|3b|> mnemotic: did you load cffi-libffi? 20:33:48 Yes. 20:36:57 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:12 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:20 mnemotic: sfClock_getElapsedTime() returns a :pointer 20:37:27 or (:pointer (:struct sf-time)) if you want to be more precise 20:38:12 or maybe not 20:38:14 hmm 20:38:21 where's the documentation of that library ? 20:38:40 or source code 20:39:04 I'll try to find it online. But the function sig is in the comments. 20:41:05 https://github.com/LaurentGomila/CSFML/blob/master/include/SFML/System/Clock.h 20:41:54 jathd [~user@fr141-3-78-229-169-69.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:01 -!- gadjo [~gggg@109.102.72.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:45:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:09 ok 20:45:22 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:45:31 as a quick temporary fix, you can unwrap sfTime 20:45:42 define it as a typedef of :int64 20:45:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1392.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:21 that ought to work 20:46:33 Let me try that. 20:46:48 the size and alignment of a struct containing a single :int64 should be the same as the plain :int64 20:46:57 -!- zickzackv [~faot@e179128048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:47:22 That follows, yeah. 20:47:26 Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has joined #lisp 20:48:29 -!- davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:04 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:25 -!- AeroNoti1 is now known as AeroNotix 20:54:56 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:41 mnemotic: everything ok ? 21:00:14 It did. Cheers! 21:00:58 Any idea why I couldn't get it working with struct? 21:00:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:01:16 nope 21:02:40 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:57 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:33 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:12 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 21:05:52 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:42 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:10:16 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:16 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:10:16 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:10:40 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@193.13.104.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:10:46 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:10:52 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 21:13:36 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-129-215.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:01 -!- spon [~wat@h197.27.55.139.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:22 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:23:48 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@233.206-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:23:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@233.206-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 21:23:48 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:23:52 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:11 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 21:29:38 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:46 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:09 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:00 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:34:28 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: Hey there!] 21:34:38 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:14 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 21:38:20 iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:39:15 anyone checked out mocl yet? 21:47:35 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:30 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:34 lambdarice [~felipe@201.75.177.244] has joined #lisp 21:49:31 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 21:49:58 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:08 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:52:34 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-238-64.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:53:53 -!- icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 21:54:05 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 21:57:24 gadjo [~gggg@109.102.72.188] has joined #lisp 21:59:44 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:00:33 yakov [~yakov@c-2ec2ba17-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:04:52 -!- lambdarice [~felipe@201.75.177.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:13 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 22:06:07 lambdarice [~felipe@201.75.177.244] has joined #lisp 22:12:23 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:48 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:14 -!- arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:6ef0:49ff:fe5e:dedb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:04 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.152.65] has joined #lisp 22:27:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:27:45 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:31:32 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 22:33:57 finally, mocl page is on :3 22:35:34 p_l: several hours already 22:35:42 we discussed it already 22:35:43 antonv_: I was away from IRC 22:35:53 everyone decided to buy a version 22:36:21 except for 2 or 3 scpetics 22:36:48 sceptics 22:37:24 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:29 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:19 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:01 the only reason I'm not hitting "buy" is that I can't see the scope of the license 22:43:50 they really need to get a better website 22:43:59 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:13 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:47 -!- knob5312 is now known as knob 22:53:04 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:23 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:46 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:58:07 btw, they promised trial version in few weeks 22:59:26 proof link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5929075 22:59:38 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.93] has joined #lisp 23:00:09 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:34 yeah, I'm waiting to see the scope of the licenses before I buy 23:01:25 though I guess I can understand focusing on getting the tech done first 23:01:38 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:01:39 though it can backfire 23:07:10 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b1765.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:56 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b1765.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:09:53 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:54 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815664.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:10:13 what do you mean scope 23:10:15 ? 23:10:21 the license text is provided on the web site 23:10:36 where? 23:10:54 when you go to buy one, you can view the license 23:10:57 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:11:05 heh 23:11:13 they really need to work on their site :/ 23:11:49 you don't have to enter any info, just pick one of the options, and then at the "shopping cart" you can view the license. I bet its beause eventually the different offerings will have different licensing requirements? IANAL, so I have no idea if that even makes sense. 23:12:13 jangle: I was wondering about differences in license levels, yes 23:12:25 jangle: but more than that, I simply did not notice the link 23:12:44 gotcha 23:12:47 also, I love 2.II... because it's the point that never applies to me xD 23:18:22 Mmm... that mocl is interesting 23:18:27 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-129-215.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:35 how to demonstrate you're a hacker for askinf for the source code license? 23:18:54 lol 23:19:42 I am trying to run the lisp koans from the repl in slime. I get the following error message LISP-UNIT:TEST-NAMES already names an ordinary function or a macro. what should I do? 23:19:43 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:11 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.143.179] has joined #lisp 23:20:21 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.60.252] has joined #lisp 23:20:35 What did you type before you got that error message? 23:20:46 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:48 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:21:40 (load "contemplate.lsp" 23:21:42 ) 23:22:11 *Xach* doesn't know, sorry 23:22:36 ckoch786_: the problem may be, as the error shows, that you loaded that lisp file several times before? 23:22:57 it gives you the same error if you load the file just after entering your cl repl? 23:24:17 dsevilla: no, after re-loading it in a new instance of slime I get The constant LISP-UNIT:+BLANKS+ is being redefined (from 23:24:18 (LISP-UNIT:__ LISP-UNIT:___ LISP-UNIT:____) to 23:24:18 (LISP-UNIT:__ LISP-UNIT:___ LISP-UNIT:____)) 23:25:02 ckoch786_: did you (in-package "LISP-UNIT")? 23:25:32 dsevilla: but if I continue after the message I get the same error as beforue 23:25:36 before 23:27:09 hmm, it appears that if I just let slime replace definitions of things that I am able to run the unit test, I do not know if this is the right way to do it though. 23:27:41 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.143.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:28:16 ckoch786_: I think things will work better if you follow the instructions. 23:28:38 pkhuong: no I am just try running comtemplate.lsp for slime instead of running it with sbcl --script contemplate.lsp as they instruct me to 23:29:07 ckoch786_: I have the same results either with the script or with the load inside slime 23:29:46 ckoch786_: redefinitions, as in your error, just mean the environment somehow already has loaded the file 23:29:54 can you try at the command line to see if the same error appears? 23:30:01 dsevilla: hmm, when I run it from the command line with the script flag I do not get any errors 23:30:35 ckoch786_: there you go, you may be reusing connections to the inferior-lisp that already has the package loaded 23:30:43 I was running it from the command line but wanted to see if I could get into a bettir flow by running it in slime 23:31:14 ckoch786_: try to change the directory to the dir. where you have the files 23:31:25 using ",cd" from the slime prompt 23:31:35 (well, the repl prompt run inside slime) 23:32:02 there's no other difference in principle, unless you've got slime configured to use another cl implementation 23:32:14 dsevilla:k 23:32:34 k? as in eureka? :P 23:35:14 yes :) 23:35:19 and btw, I wanted to ask if it is not uncommon to see google supporting the lisp koans... 23:35:27 they don't have any other development based in lisp 23:35:34 ckoch786_: so does it work then? 23:35:37 yes 23:35:47 nice! 23:36:12 now have fun! I plan to do them just for fun 23:36:22 thanks 23:36:27 you're welcome 23:36:35 anyway, have to go to bed 23:36:37 see u 23:36:41 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 23:37:05 later 23:39:00 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:42:04 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.145.175] has joined #lisp 23:46:39 -!- yakov [~yakov@c-2ec2ba17-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:47:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:48:39 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.145.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:49:17 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:45 Wukix [~user@76-198-128-124.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:51 are the conventions used in the lisp-koans considered to be correct or is it a bad idea for me to be learning lisp from them? 23:55:49 Will it be your first exposure to Lisp, or have you read a book or something? 23:56:42 I have learned a bit from elisp info pages and from PCL but I have not completed either 23:59:39 I'd recommend completing PCL first. YMMV 23:59:45 -!- gadjo [~gggg@109.102.72.188] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]