00:03:03 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.51.231.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:04 Sagane_ [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:36 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:04:49 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.43.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:53 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:42 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 00:09:06 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:09:53 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:36 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:24:24 Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has joined #lisp 00:33:45 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:33:47 antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] has joined #lisp 00:35:02 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38:14 -!- Sagane_ [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:36 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:08 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:16 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:28 -!- hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:50:32 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:11 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:30 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:56:50 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:02 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:57:36 prip_ [~foo@host169-131-dynamic.49-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:58:11 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 00:58:26 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:58:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 00:58:53 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:59:11 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:28 -!- prip [~foo@host138-242-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:01:19 -!- BitPuffin_ [~quassel@m83-182-139-207.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08:03 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.5.205] has joined #lisp 01:08:50 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@132.205.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 01:10:00 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:20 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:11:14 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:11:20 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:12:18 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:10 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:05 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 01:23:49 antonv_: another difference with spreadsheets is that updating is lazy, 01:24:03 when you "bash" something, nothing gets recomputed at that time, only unbound. 01:24:10 things are recomputed only on-demand. 01:24:57 and docs are going through major overhaul currently, the link above is the current state (still in the middle of overhaul but a lot more usable than 2 weeks ago) 01:27:07 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-192-154-180-133.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:45 Hey lispers, I ran into a serious bug with my TAGBODY/GO operators and I'd like to check my current solution with you folks before I implement it. 01:31:52 My new solution I mean. 01:32:10 The wrong way: The compiler generates code for the GO that writes that "depth" value into a Go_exception C++ exception and throws it - that exception propagates up the exception handling stack, cleaning up everything along the way. 01:32:36 Every time a TAGBODY catches the GO exception as it propagates up, the depth is decremented and the exception is rethrown and when the depth reaches zero the appropriate tag is jumped to. 01:32:49 This worked with static code but fails with the CL condition system and the example code because there aren't always a fixed number of TAGBODYs between a GO and its destination. 01:32:59 Example code here: 01:33:53 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137696 01:34:06 browsing nevermores code, no readtime conditionals yet so far, was it written / targettied to any specific CL ? 01:34:13 I can put a GO in a lambda in a dynamic variable and FUNCALL the code almost anywhere (as long as the tag is lexically visible to the GO - see CLHS:GO). 01:34:20 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:38 My new solution: Declare a global variable (one byte) and use its address (tagbody_id) where I'm currently using "depth" and propagate Go_exceptions until the Go_exceptions tagbody_id matches the intended TAGBODY. 01:34:48 That way I have a system-wide unique identifier for every TAGBODY that is unique across all linked code. 01:34:55 Does that sound like the simplest solution or am I overthinking it? 01:35:59 well you can tell lexically where a given go is going to end up 01:36:20 <|3b|> you might need to be able to distinguish a particular invocation of the tagbody 01:37:00 <|3b|> for example consider a recursive function that collects lambdas containing a GO on each iteration, then picks one at random to call 01:38:17 *|3b|* might be confusing it with throw or return-from though, don't remember if all 3 needed to handle the same sorts of things or not 01:38:42 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.247.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:43 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-192-154-180-133.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 01:39:25 <|3b|> at least one of them required allocating an object to distinguish multiple nested calls in my last toy lisp though 01:39:45 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:20 <|3b|> see also http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss152_w.htm 01:40:37 |3b|: Recursion - hmmmm. Would a GO have to jump the a particular invocation of a TAGBODY in a recursive situation or just to the first TAGBODY with the matching tagbody_id? 01:41:28 i'm pretty lost at "particularly invocation of a tagbody"... 01:43:28 I'll try and cook up an example. 01:46:37 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:47:04 Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has joined #lisp 01:49:07 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:00 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 01:51:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.5.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:51:42 <|3b|> something like (defun foo (a n) (tagbody (when (> n 10) (funcall (car (last a)))) (foo (cons (lambda () (go end)) a) (1+ n)) end) (print "done")) (foo nil 0) 01:53:37 I haven't checked this carefully (looks like too many Dones are being printed) but this might be what I'm asking about: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137698 01:53:40 <|3b|> vs (defun foo (a n) (tagbody (when (> n 10) (funcall (pop a))) (foo (cons (lambda () (go end)) a) (1+ n)) end (print "done") (when a (funcall (pop a))))) 01:54:14 |3b|: I'm parsing your examples. 01:55:44 <|3b|> annotated that paste with formatted versions and output from sbcl 01:56:03 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:59:24 Wow, these are difficult to follow. 01:59:53 Do the FUNCALLs ever GO to anything other than the innermost TAGBODY? 02:00:34 <|3b|> the first example GOs to the TAGBODY from call with N = 0 02:01:06 <|3b|> the second unwinds calls GO on each nested tagbody 02:03:16 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-85-199.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:04 -!- keppy [~Luca@75-151-97-182-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:05:29 brain doing thinky thing 02:06:13 <|3b|> yeah, that stuff is requires some though to deal with all the edge cases no sane user would ever use :) 02:07:27 <|3b|> (unfortunately code generators don't always count as 'sane', so edge cases aren't quite as rare as they might be) 02:07:28 Ok, I see how the first one works - I modified it a bit: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137699 02:07:30 -!- antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:47 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:06 antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] has joined #lisp 02:08:17 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:28 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.251.75] has joined #lisp 02:08:30 That's a sticky wicket. How do I deal with that? 02:09:13 Does that issue: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss152_w.htm explain how to solve this problem? 02:09:37 *|3b|* allocated something for every non-local-exit target where the non-local exit was closed over (or something like that) 02:10:15 <|3b|> no, that EXIT-EXTENT thing is a related problem, which is what happens when you start mixing in unwind-protect 02:10:30 <|3b|> and doing non-local exits from the cleanup forms 02:10:54 *drmeister* hopes he didn't screw that up as well. 02:11:12 I'm using C++ exception handling to deal with all that stuff - it should work ok. 02:11:49 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:55 *|3b|* was targeting a VM and using its exception stuff for all nlx, so probably similar 02:12:12 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:13:20 Do you have any recommendations on how to deal with this issue that GO has to jump to the appropriate recursively nested TAGBODY? Otherwise I'll sleep on it and maybe come up with a solution. 02:14:14 *|3b|* 's best idea is what i said above... allocate a marker on entry to a block or tagbody 02:14:27 Ah - sorry, I forgot that. 02:15:22 But that's a runtime allocation - how will the GO's (which could be scattered in all sorts of different functions) get the marker? 02:15:51 I'm starting to think I need some sort of stack. 02:16:13 gendl: that's how it works, lazy evaluation, now I understand 02:16:14 <|3b|> the GO compiles to something that involves a reference to the allocated whatever, which then gets closed over 02:16:20 ECL has a special stack for TAGBODY and BLOCK that I've ignored up until now - maybe that's what its for. 02:16:33 <|3b|> (or something like that, it was a while ago that i was dealing with that stuff) 02:16:44 askatasuna [~askatasun@79-210-245-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 02:16:49 <|3b|> yeah, sounds similar 02:17:09 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 02:17:12 gendl: I though, how complex it is to find all the expressions referencing the current changed property and propagate changes through the whole graph. Now I see, it works from different end :) 02:17:39 I think I need to think on this for a while - this is just another example why implementing Common Lisp is hard - these implementation details are constantly biting me. 02:17:48 <|3b|> yep :/ 02:18:03 Hi ho - that's what I signed up for I guess. 02:20:36 one option is to statically detect cases where a return-from / go crosses a function boundary, and transform them to a catch/throw 02:21:28 <|3b|> yeah, that sounds like a better description of what i was doing 02:24:38 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:25:44 But a throw is caught by the most recently established catch with the matching tag. 02:25:49 b1101 [~b@108.61.50.108] has joined #lisp 02:26:30 yes, but you don't use a constant tag 02:26:34 see http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 02:27:32 ugh, my cheap compiler attempt miscompiled |3b|'s first too >: 02:28:45 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.251.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29:25 I see. 02:29:38 Bike: What are you compiling to? 02:29:47 closures 02:30:07 Ah 02:31:54 I could just use that metacircular thingy couldn't I? TAGBODY/GO emulated by CATCH/THROW. 02:32:24 might not be very good code, though. 02:32:43 I'm all about "not very good code". 02:34:40 in practice you'll need to have a "real" implementation of tagbody/go and block/return-from for the normal case 02:35:48 since the performance cost of the extra consing would be crippling 02:37:19 I guess you could use the metacircular definition, and instead optimize away the consing when the catch tag is not closed over 02:38:01 Essentially what I'm doing right now is transforming them all into catch/throw - I just need to figure out a tag that will connect the GO's to the appropriate TAGBODY. 02:38:29 I'm using C++ exception handling throw/catch and I throw and catch a special Go_exception. 02:38:44 All the cleanup is handled by C++ exception handling. 02:40:23 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:40:32 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 02:40:47 I don't break up the tagged code into separate functions - they are all in the same function and jumped to using a jump table. 02:40:51 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:41:40 That's so that in the future I can optimize the GOs in the same function to jumps (currently they are still C++ throw/catch pairs - yes I know thats awful). 02:42:13 I have a freakin' TODO list that stretches to the moon. 02:43:07 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:56 keppy_ [~Luca@50-197-72-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:35 In the metacircular emulation of TAGBODY/GO with CATCH/THROW - what does this do? (let* ((,go-tag (list nil)) (,return-tag (list nil))... 02:45:29 For discussion I excised it: http://pastebin.com/RJARpVpV 02:45:37 It's on line 19. 02:46:17 syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:17 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:46:17 syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 02:47:22 Is it to bind a unique value, a list with nil in it to ,go-tag and ,return-tag? 02:47:28 yes 02:48:00 which is needed for the general case of closing over a tagbody tag 02:48:28 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49:01 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 02:50:16 And what does label-to-functionname do? Labels are symbols - as are functionnames - correct? 02:50:23 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:50:26 -!- keppy_ [~Luca@50-197-72-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:52:40 a go tag can be an integer 02:52:43 Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has joined #lisp 02:53:23 also you don't want to shadow any user functions named the same as tags. 02:53:57 Oh, now I see. 02:54:20 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.49.105] has joined #lisp 02:54:51 The lambda &aux part is messed up - correct? #'(lambda (seq &aux (label (car seq) (s (cdr seq))) 02:55:05 yeah, looks like it. 02:55:23 It should read #'(lambda (seq &aux (label (car seq)) (s (cdr seq)))) 02:55:32 And... hello everybody! 02:55:53 *drmeister* waves 02:56:53 *drmeister* just notices what he thought was a backquote was a piece of dirt on his screen. 02:57:02 How is everybody doing? Did I miss something? 02:57:53 drmeister: I always wonder why do people on photos have dirty faces, then I just clean my screen and realise that I sould do this more often. =P 02:58:52 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:52 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:58:52 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:01:35 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:59 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:33 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.192.51] has joined #lisp 03:13:26 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 03:13:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 03:13:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:14:30 Ok, I've been staring at it for 15 minutes and then |3b|, your statement about "closing over the reference to allocated tagbody whatever (sic)" sunk in. Now I see what you meant by that. 03:15:02 "it" being the TAGBODY/GO emulated by CATCH/THROW. 03:16:38 That can only work if I break up the TAGBODY code into separate functions for every tagged block of code. 03:18:31 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:21:02 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.148.193.226] has joined #lisp 03:21:55 I need to think on this. 03:21:57 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 03:22:04 syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:04 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:22:04 syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:23:36 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.160.221.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:23:36 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 03:24:22 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:23 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 03:25:50 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 03:26:30 trying to fix lispmachinery http://i.imgur.com/FUjIt2l.jpg 03:26:39 I'm going to pop over to #sbcl and see if anyone can tell me how they did it 03:29:09 rbento [~textual@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 03:30:28 I installed usocket using quicklisp in an sbcl repl. I wrote some code that uses usocket in emacs and attempted to compile/load it with C-c C-k in Slime but it reports that package usocket DNE. How can I give Slime the location? 03:31:11 <|3b|> you need to load it into the lisp, either with quicklisp or asdf 03:31:17 also I do not understand why it does not "just work" because I have sbcl load ql at startup and I have my lisp set to sbcl in my emacs init 03:31:22 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:40 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 03:31:43 |3b|, I used (ql:quickload "usocket") 03:32:01 <|3b|> right, after you do that it is loaded into the running lisp 03:32:12 <|3b|> (and installed onto the hard drive if it wasn't already) 03:32:17 do I need to run it every time I want to use it? 03:32:39 <|3b|> you can, or you can load something else that specifies usocket as a dependency 03:32:51 -!- antuirno [~antuirno@187.18.166.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:33:37 <|3b|> usually you would make an ASDF system for your project specifying it depends on usocket, and load that (again using either quicklisp or asdf) 03:33:38 ckoch: perhaps you could start with http://www.xach.com/lisp/quickproject/ 03:33:55 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:33:58 <|3b|> quicklisp uses asdf internally, which is why either will work for something that is already installed 03:34:30 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:35:19 ckoch: (you should be able to install quickproject using quicklisp.. quickly) 03:37:53 adeht, thanks 03:38:06 |3b|, thanks 03:39:35 I am following http://common-lisp.net/project/common-lisp-beginner/sockets_doc.html can anyone explain to me why when I compile it I get the following warning:Unknown location: warning: 1 more use of undefined variable SOCK 03:39:45 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:10 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:40:42 teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has joined #lisp 03:42:08 <|3b|> that tutorial uses not-quite-conformant code, presumably in hopes of simplifying the explanation 03:42:17 Gooder [~user@79.155.200.192.client.dyn.strong-in144.as13926.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:45 <|3b|> using SETf or SETQ on a variable that doesn't exist is undefined behavior, but many implementations do something useful, usually creating a variable 03:42:46 ckoch: you're not supposed to setq variables that aren't defined.. instead try (defvar *sock* (usocket:socket-connect ...)) etc... note that I changed the name to comply with naming convention for special variables 03:42:48 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 03:42:57 <|3b|> SBCL also considers warning you to be useful, so it does that too 03:43:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:47 <|3b|> DEFPARAMETER would be a better replacement for SETF / SETQ than DEFVAR, since DEFPARAMETER always assigns 03:44:06 <|3b|> alternately you can use DEFVAR to create the variable, then use the SETF or SETQ as written 03:46:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:48:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 03:53:31 the warning is part of setq macro in sbcl, you can do (set 'x 'blah) just fine 03:54:34 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 03:54:37 or (setf (symbol-value 'x) 'blah).. But variable won't get dynamic binding unless you declare it special 03:55:12 <|3b|> or you can just create a variable 03:55:39 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:55:57 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:11 *maxm* learned to live with it, but I still kind of hate *var* convention, it just looks so 1970'sh :-) 03:56:18 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:47 <|3b|> at least we don't have to tack random characters onto /all/ variables like some languages :p 03:56:57 ckoch_: one reason for the asterisk naming convention is that defvar/defparameter change they way the symbol will interact with bindforms such as LET; they will make a dynamic binding instead of a lexical binding. With the asterisk convention you won't accidentally make lexical bindings dynamic 03:57:42 pierpa`` [~user@95.236.57.73] has joined #lisp 03:57:43 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 03:58:23 -!- Gooder [~user@79.155.200.192.client.dyn.strong-in144.as13926.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:44 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:04 -!- pierpa` [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02:28 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:03:55 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:24 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 04:09:37 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.192.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:19:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 04:19:27 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.231.170] has joined #lisp 04:19:49 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.49.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:23:35 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:32 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.246.197] has joined #lisp 04:35:27 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 04:35:44 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:45 Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has joined #lisp 04:40:05 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:42:22 pierpa``` [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:44:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:44:47 -!- pierpa`` [~user@95.236.57.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:49:09 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 04:51:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.246.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:55:41 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:04:51 nostoi [~nostoi@61.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:06:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:07:17 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:03 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:31 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:07 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1f46.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:49 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 05:11:28 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:47 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:14:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:14:35 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@61.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 05:21:11 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:21:20 DijkstraGroupie [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 05:23:23 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1f46.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24:29 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 05:24:34 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:11 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 05:31:29 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:02 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1f46.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:23 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:34:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:27 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 05:38:01 -!- johnzorn [~jz@69.165.197.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:38:26 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:20 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 05:41:46 hajovonta [pgrq@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 05:41:59 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 05:42:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:42:20 -!- rbento [~textual@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: Hey there!] 05:44:16 Huh, postmodern seems to return 2dim array instead of array of vectors. How can I append vector to array or at least convert array to list? 05:44:35 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:51 hitecnologys: (coerce array 'list) 05:45:13 jdz: I tried, I didn't worked for two dimensional one 05:45:17 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:34 Quadrescence: is that a frankenstein out of two MacIvory? 05:45:34 s/didn't worked/didn't work/ 05:46:12 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:17 hitecnologys: it's not supposed to work on a two-dimensional array 05:46:17 p_l, accept the mystery 05:46:41 jdz: so how can I convert two-dimensional array to list? 05:47:07 hitecnologys: a simple loop shold be ok 05:47:11 what would you want #2A((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) to be? 05:47:24 Quadrescence: ((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) 05:47:50 hitecnologys: or i would look at postmodern to see if one can tell it to return something else 05:47:55 sounds like a good UTILITY FUNCTION! 05:48:12 Actually, I have array of pairs, so a loop would be easy. 05:48:25 Quadrescence: ... oh god, the puns 05:48:48 jdz: already did that, it looks like it's limitation of postgres 05:49:04 hitecnologys: i seriously doubt that. 05:49:35 (because postgres has no clue about CL's two-dimensional arrays) 05:50:13 tseno [~user@92-247-203-66.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 05:50:53 jdz: I mean it's easier to read it like multi-dimensional array then read it as vector of vectors or vectors etc 05:50:53 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:51:06 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1f46.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:51:07 hajovont` [qvoyo@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 05:51:15 -!- hajovont` is now known as hajovonta` 05:51:18 hello 05:51:23 hello 05:51:37 where am i 05:51:40 hitecnologys: that's not a very compelling reason 05:51:45 oh... that's #lisp 05:51:49 greetings fine people 05:51:59 -!- hajovonta` [qvoyo@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:59 -!- hajovonta [pgrq@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:12 happy summer 05:52:23 jdz: sure 05:52:35 hello tseno 05:52:47 hajovonta [jzwwyqe@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 05:52:51 re 05:53:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:53:12 ... and have a nice autumn to the aussies the new zeland chaps and the argentinians 05:53:19 and hello hajovonta 05:53:21 :) 05:53:30 hello hitecnologys% 05:53:34 -% 05:53:57 johnzorn [~jz@69.165.197.72] has joined #lisp 05:54:06 please stop guys 05:54:30 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 05:55:29 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 05:55:41 hellp jdz 05:55:52 i meant hello 05:56:14 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 05:56:15 lol 05:57:19 someone probably should write a script that will automatically greet everybody on channel after join 05:58:17 i can easily add a hook for that to rcirc 05:58:38 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:59:07 I can do this with my weechat too 05:59:27 ok... i'm going for my morning coffee enema... be well 06:02:04 Ok, jdz, you were right, it's just the way how postmodern reads values sent by postgresql, but to change this behavior I need to modify postmodern code. =( 06:03:01 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:04:27 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:04:29 hitecnologys: my impression is that such a bot might quickly get banned :) 06:04:33 i think the gouvernment will fall \o/ 06:04:41 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:04:52 greeting everybody is easy. just say "hello" 06:05:09 phadthai: sure, but it would generate tons of fun 06:05:22 hajovonta: that's too easy! 06:05:29 yeah, keep it simple :D 06:05:45 ... and greeting people it not really all that bad... 06:06:13 i would be flattered personaly 06:07:25 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.23.155] has joined #lisp 06:08:19 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.96.31] has left #lisp 06:08:43 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: El motor por excelencia http://www.europio.org/] 06:13:44 read the topic, this channel is about #lisp, not attention-whoring 06:15:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:15:27 hello jdz... how are you... is life treating you well recently 06:15:28 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-62-73.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:17:50 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-241.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:26:40 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:26:43 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 06:26:47 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:19 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:28:32 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.23.155] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:29:47 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 ehu [~Erik@109.34.236.125] has joined #lisp 06:34:59 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.34.236.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:35:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:36:09 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 06:36:10 nostoi [~nostoi@61.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:48 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:39:01 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:39:36 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:39:42 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:39:43 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:40:18 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:40:37 -!- felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:41:30 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:41:54 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:42:00 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-230-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:23 -!- Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:19 hitecnologys, I wrote ARRAY-LIST: http://quickutil.org/list?q=array-list 06:43:29 It is not very efficient though. :) 06:44:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:18 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:44:44 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:01 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:45:19 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:28 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:45:44 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:47:20 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:48 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:49:46 echo http://quickutil.org/list?q=array-list | xclip -i -selection clip-board 06:49:49 woops 06:49:53 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:50:11 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:50:17 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:07 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:51:33 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 06:52:03 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:53:53 Quadrescence: I finally looked up quickutil, and I have to say, it looks damn sweet :3 06:54:23 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 06:54:23 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:54:42 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@64.228.154.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:57:19 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:57:37 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:58:29 geez, quadrescence, you could at least use array-dimension instead of consing so much :P 07:00:51 ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-230-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:18 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:06 the site doesn't work right in lynx, or without scripts :) 07:03:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1] 07:05:03 the former can be discarded, the latter is fixable :P 07:06:14 i've heard lynx is the best browser for blind people. 07:06:50 jdz: I somehow doubt it. The problem with lynx is not that it's text-based, but that it doesn't support even HTML 3 properly 07:07:41 also, while well designed sites might not be complete mess on it, it still can't use extra data hints according to accessibility specs and such 07:08:12 my use of lynx was metaphoric, btw :) 07:08:25 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-lnaftvanlxjoagky] has joined #lisp 07:09:46 although I admit still using it from emacs to open hyperspec pages 07:10:02 I went with w3m 07:10:30 -!- kisp [~kisp@91-66-231-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:56 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:18 when I realized how I had to configure w3m to use lynx-style bindings, and how the emacs embedded support for it seemed problematic to setup, I settled for lynx in a tmux window 07:11:46 fair enough 07:12:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:36 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:16 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 07:14:41 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Client Quit] 07:15:14 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 07:16:19 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:16:40 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:18 i use firefox without problems :) 07:19:17 dsp_ [~dsp@technoanimal.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:45 -!- ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-230-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:30 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[zz] 07:21:37 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:22:22 hmm that would be possible if I could somehow tell remote shells to open local firefox instances without them having firefox or X11 clients 07:24:19 and the alternative, local emacs and swank connections to remote lisp images, have other limitations 07:25:18 s/swank connections to remote/slime connections to remote swank/ 07:27:24 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-38-130.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:36 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:54 mikecsh [~mikecsh@88-105-59-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 07:34:40 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:34:44 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:35:42 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:48 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 07:39:21 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 07:40:41 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@61.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 07:43:55 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:50:24 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:52:20 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has left #lisp 07:52:47 phadthai: reverse ssh? 07:54:22 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:54:38 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:55:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:55:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.138] has joined #lisp 07:55:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.138] has quit [Changing host] 07:55:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:01:08 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:02:16 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:04:01 ehu [~Erik@109.35.23.28] has joined #lisp 08:04:14 good day everyone 08:04:42 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:10:24 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:11:11 p_l: there are security and administration aspects to allow remote password-less connections to the local development systems, but your idea also gives me a related idea, an ssh tunnel initiated locally, with a small script handling url requests on that port, might be quite nice... 08:16:52 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 08:18:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:43 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:51 protist_ 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host closed the connection] 09:27:41 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 09:27:46 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:56 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:28:18 Hello #lisp. 09:31:32 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:31:47 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:20 hello kami-sama 09:32:30 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:35:34 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 09:36:39 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:17 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-hllhphmogwsbhggz] has joined #lisp 09:39:17 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-hllhphmogwsbhggz] has quit [Changing host] 09:39:17 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:41:47 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.51.231.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 09:42:49 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 09:44:26 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 09:50:29 iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:50:35 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@188.205.196.14] has joined #lisp 09:50:35 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@188.205.196.14] has quit [Changing host] 09:50:35 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 09:52:28 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:53:19 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 09:53:46 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 09:55:23 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 09:55:37 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 09:56:09 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:03 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:59:52 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:00:23 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:30 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 10:02:41 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@172.209.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:04:59 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:39 phadthai: the same issues are solved with SSH when properly done (you can also allow it to only call certain things, too) 10:12:54 josemanuel [~josemanue@185.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:13:06 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.35.23.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:17 this link on cffi's webpage is down: http://www.common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/cffi-devel 10:15:44 Ah, sorry, I was afk. Thanks Quadrescence, I'll take a look at this. 10:16:17 :) 10:17:03 it's very fun to play with common-lisp.net, but maybe it should be done on a vm somewhere, not on the production website, and not by breaking links 10:18:09 (and seriously, disqus ?) 10:22:42 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@230.208.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:22:57 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@185.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:24:20 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 10:26:50 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-244-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:29:57 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:32:32 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:32:48 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:56 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:35:55 :file :depends-on in asdf is a really bad idea, humans cant be trusted with declaring dependencies at such fine level:-( 10:36:40 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:55 josemanuel [~josemanue@14.166.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:41:16 fortunately if the dependencies are wrong, your program will error 10:42:35 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:50 sometimes, depends i think 10:43:00 that's the problem 10:43:13 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@230.208.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:43:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:44:03 and fixing somebodys broken and bloated dependencies is no fun 10:44:37 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:45:32 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:46:14 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 10:46:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 10:46:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:46:41 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:47:53 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:32 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 10:48:51 hlavaty``, do you have any better suggestions? 10:49:26 yes, this "feature" should not exist :-) 10:50:50 okay but that doesn't sufficiently solve the problem that :depends-on solves. 10:50:54 How will you solve it instead? 10:51:46 by declaring it a non-issue, the price for making it an issue is too high and reward too low 10:52:05 What? 10:52:29 ie always :serial 10:52:57 :serial is too restrictive 10:53:32 it doesn't solve the broken dependencies problem completely, but is at least possible to reason about by humans 10:54:04 :depends-on can be reasoned about too. If you cannot reason about it, you can use :serial if you'd like 10:54:21 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:54:28 you are superhuman;-) 10:55:02 either that or, being a programmer, i have seen more than one directed acyclic graph in my life 10:55:24 problem is that people think they are clever and use it, but they are often wrong 10:56:05 and fixing it becomes not trivial for thirdparty library 10:56:35 I'm trying: (defun try(x y) ((lambda (x y) (funcall `(,x) y)) x y)), but (try #'zerop 23) don't give me nil.. any help? thanks... 10:56:50 I need to past a function in a lambda term.. 10:57:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:57:59 pnpuff, why do you have `(,x) 10:58:27 what does (funcall (list #'zerop) 23) mean to you? 10:59:49 -!- pellegrino [~pellegrin@85.17.26.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:00:18 Quadrescence: right... but what I have to do in order to solve my problem? 11:00:45 (defun try (x y) ((lambda (x y) (funcall x y)) x y)) ? 11:01:37 oh, thanks 11:02:37 hlavaty: You just need to be able to manage a topological sort. :) 11:02:40 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@14.166.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:18 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 11:03:19 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 11:03:19 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 11:04:53 Yay, Pass: 31 (100%)! 11:05:23 My super-ultra array converter works. 11:05:31 what does it do 11:05:34 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 11:06:05 It converts 2dim array of pairs to list #2A((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) => ((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) 11:06:05 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:52 i would call the utility i wrote a super-ultra array converter. I'd call that a special case. 11:07:12 Harag1 [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:07:14 hitecnologys, can I see your implementation of such a function 11:07:15 ? 11:08:30 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-62-73.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:08:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:09:07 Quadrescence: of course you can http://paste.lisp.org/display/137700 11:09:17 are SKI well defined as: (defun I(x) ((lambda (x) x) x)) (defun K(x &optional y) ((lambda (x y) x) x y)) (defun S(x y z) ((lambda (x y z) (funcall x z (funcall y z))) x y z)) ? 11:09:58 hitecnologys, how about http://paste.lisp.org/display/137701 11:10:09 I get (equal (S #'K #'K 's) (K 's (K 's))) ==> T 11:10:29 but I'm not sure of k definition... 11:10:43 Quadrescence: okay, you won this time. =( 11:11:09 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.96.31] has joined #lisp 11:11:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756376.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:12:28 hitecnologys: why do you need to perform a conversion from an array to a list? 11:14:14 pnpuff: because I can't push or substitute data in 2d array. I know it's stupid but it's limitation of postmodern, I can't affect it. 11:14:42 pnpuff: where does that SKI 11:14:45 sorry 11:14:53 I'm having problems with erc via screen 11:16:09 Blkt: I'm trying to write it... but I don't know if it is well written 11:16:32 is I identity? 11:16:37 yes 11:17:21 (defun I (x) ((lambda () x))) 11:17:50 I don't get why you generate a lambda and then use it right the way 11:19:02 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.96.31] has left #lisp 11:19:19 wouldn't identity be (lambda (x) x)? 11:19:20 you could aswell write (defun I (x) x) 11:19:23 yes 11:19:39 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:19:45 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 11:19:48 it would make sense if you wrote (defun I (x) (lambda () x)) 11:19:48 pnpuff, https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/4fa6f4094066d804a4ded36ab6b3030eaa2f0037/ski.lisp?at=default 11:20:03 which returns a function that always returns x 11:20:17 Blkt: I'm using lambda expressions because of combinators usually are defined in terms of lambda functions 11:20:42 (at least on the tutorials I'm reading currently) 11:22:13 e.g. x[xx] for the self-application combinator 11:22:35 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:22:48 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 11:24:21 oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.250.249] has joined #lisp 11:26:06 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.51.231.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:45 bitonic [~user@dyn1223-57.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:27:48 pnpuff: still, if you write (defun I (x) ((lambda (x) x) x)) you pass x to I, then to the lambda and you eval the lambda right away 11:28:59 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.250.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:32:33 -!- pierpa``` [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:35:02 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:35:26 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:37:23 -!- Harag1 [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:30 shaun__ [~shaun@5.102.91.18] has joined #lisp 11:47:58 -!- shaun__ [~shaun@5.102.91.18] has left #lisp 11:48:15 BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-1.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:49:39 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:55:33 oudeis [~oudeis@85.250.102.127] has joined #lisp 12:02:21 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:02:38 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:4de5:2f17:e042:1ee1] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:04:55 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:05:22 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-243-226-1.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:59 BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-182-17-77.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:07:10 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.51.231.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 12:07:50 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:10:56 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:11:03 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-182-17-77.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:42 BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-190-93-61.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:11:44 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14:01 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 12:14:18 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:30 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:15:09 ikki [~ikki@187.208.243.16] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@203.192.156.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:17:05 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:17:16 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Client Quit] 12:17:38 i just made a macro that seems useful...but i am guessing there is a logical operator for it 12:17:44 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:17:52 (defmacro neither (&rest args) 12:17:54 `(and ,@(mapcar (lambda (x) `(not ,x)) args))) 12:18:02 useful or superfluous? 12:18:39 I get (funcall (S #'k #'k #'I) 'unuseful) ==> unuseful 12:18:55 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:14 not sure i get your joke 12:19:24 but i suppose you think the macro is dumb haha 12:19:30 what is the built in for it? 12:20:15 protist_: (not (or )) (-: 12:20:17 so like (neither (= 1 2) (= 3 4)) returns t ....and (neither (= 1 2) (= 3 3) (= 4 1)) returns nil 12:21:01 antifuchs: i wanted proper lazyness 12:21:14 antifuchs: although that is a decent choice :) 12:21:18 do you mean short-cicuiting? 12:21:21 antifuchs: yes 12:21:32 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-190-93-61.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:32 the short-circuiting behavior is the same between both 12:21:51 BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-242-224-208.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:21:51 both neither and (or not) will stop at the first one that returns true 12:22:02 antifuchs: ah quite true 12:22:03 er, (not or) 12:22:23 but I see how having it as a name would be useful (: 12:22:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:22:51 antifuchs: then i could simplify to `(not (or ,@body)) 12:22:55 antifuchs: yeah :) 12:23:12 antifuchs: i still feel like there must be a logical operator i don't know about 12:24:01 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-242-224-208.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:33 BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-3-181-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:25:41 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 12:25:41 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 12:25:41 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 12:27:15 has anyone here used APL? 12:27:32 i am implementing an APL and i have a question 12:28:23 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:47 protist_: try J ... 12:28:58 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-204-16.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:59 ... APL is quite old 12:30:07 net4all [~net4all@bacon.lysator.liu.se] has joined #lisp 12:30:23 bitonic` [~user@dyn1223-57.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:30:26 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:39 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-57.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:07 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 12:33:43 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 12:35:33 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:40 Is tacit programming useful to manipulate better combinators? 12:37:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:37:35 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:37 protist_: the only one that I'm aware of is NOTANY 12:37:49 there's no standard macro form of it that I know 12:39:01 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:39:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:39:31 -!- iig00cz is now known as rainboss 12:40:10 -!- rainboss is now known as iig00cz 12:41:14 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:43:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-38-130.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:44:28 hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:49:21 Hey guys, so I'm being confused by the behaviour of gethash (probably). Can anyone lend a hand? Here is the relevant snippet: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137702 the POPX things are macros and they work just fine. The issue is that save does verifiably store the value in the correct register (string keys) but load always gives nill for a key lookup, even though I can see that the table has the correct keys before load executes 12:50:49 hiato: where is "register" coming from? maybe you're using symbols from different packages to store and lookup? 12:50:51 Is this something to do with the way strings are hashed? For reference, if REGISTER is a symbol then it all works just fine 12:51:08 how did you create the hash table? what the :test function? 12:51:17 H4ns: it comes from the "stack" (just a list managed by push and pop) 12:51:17 hiato: if you want to use strings as hash table keys, you need to use :test #'equal 12:51:23 H4ns: aha! 12:51:25 ehu [~Erik@109.35.23.28] has joined #lisp 12:51:27 dim: yep, you struck on it 12:51:35 thanks guys 12:51:42 what is the default, eq? 12:51:45 I did the same the first time I used a hash table with string keys :) 12:51:48 hiato: eql 12:51:59 ok, I see, cool 12:52:23 yay :D it works 12:52:26 thanks again :) 12:52:31 hiato: eq tests for equality amomgs atoms 12:52:43 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.101.39] has joined #lisp 12:53:06 s/amomgs/among/ 12:53:11 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:53:54 pnpuff: yeah, I have yet to figure out all the subtleties between eq, eql, equal, equalp and co. Apparently you should go with equal if you're not certain that things will necessarily be the same in memory, and eql for symbols? 12:54:52 -!- hajovonta [jzwwyqe@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:57 anyway, nothing google can't answer 12:55:43 -!- n2kra [~n2kra@pool-71-187-70-233.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:36 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 12:56:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:51 H4ns: I won't make it to the meeting on Tuesday, I'll be in Freiburg 12:57:14 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 12:57:25 fe[nl]ix: ah, ok. what brings you to freiburg, if i may ask? 12:58:03 work 12:58:29 sounds good. enjoy! 13:00:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:55 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1223-57.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:01 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has 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#lisp 13:58:03 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-254-247-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:25 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@85.250.102.127] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:58:57 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:00 skunk_michi [~skunk_mic@pcphy21.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:32 -!- kami`` is now known as kami 14:03:20 How can I test, whether the first three elements of a list are numbers? Is (every #'numberp (subseq x 0 3)) a good idea? My problem is, that this way, the elements of x are copied, rather than just referenced. 14:03:24 HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 14:03:48 "anger" :) nah, i just don't want to propose a different pull request if it's already there 14:03:52 sry 14:04:31 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.51.231.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:37 cannon [~user@ool-45701243.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:57 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:03 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 14:05:19 -!- kami` is now known as kami 14:06:40 skunk_michi: Barring any better ideas, (loop for item in list for index below 3 unless (numberp item) do (return nil) finally (return t)) or something along those lines. 14:07:36 Someone might have a more clever idea involving a mapping function, and that loop form I just wrote was off-the-cuff, so I don't know if it's "right" or not. 14:09:18 use a pattern matcher like optima 14:09:20 (loop for item in list repeat 3 always (numberp item)) 14:10:08 You people make things so complicated. (and (numberp x 0) (numberp x 1) (numberp x 2)) 14:10:37 though, honestly, mal___ wins. 14:11:04 I have the habit of writing way too complex loops :) 14:11:05 actually. (every #'numberp x :end 3) 14:11:24 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:28 nope. that doesn't work 14:12:04 The set predicates don't take keywords 14:13:24 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:13:31 dlowe, (and (numberp x 0) (numberp x 1) (numberp x 2)) seems messy ;-) 14:13:53 it's also wrong 14:13:54 skunk_michi: but obvious. and fast. 14:14:04 and wrong, as mal___ says 14:14:21 You people make things so complicated. (and (numberp (elt x 0)) (numberp (elt x 1)) (numberp (elt x 2))) 14:14:43 dlowe, works, but seems messy again ;-) 14:14:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:53 -!- johnzorn [~jz@69.165.197.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:11 checking the first three elements of a list instead of every element seems pretty messy to me 14:15:34 I say list, but you didn't specify, and I didn't assume in my example 14:15:42 dlowe, It probably is ;-) 14:16:25 If it's not a list, mal___'s example won't work - you'll need to use for item across x 14:16:28 So is there a function to return a sublist that consists of references? It's probably not doable with the normal lisp implementations of lists, or? 14:16:34 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:16:36 it's not doable 14:16:52 thank you. So I'll use the loop. 14:16:56 thanks for your help. 14:17:02 The references themselves would be cons cells 14:17:16 so you end up copying anyway 14:17:28 well, wait. 14:17:43 you're wrong about subseq. It doesn't copy the *elements* of a list. 14:18:02 It copies the *list*. Just the cons cells. 14:18:10 -!- hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 14:18:36 dlowe: maybe (not (find-if-not #'numberp list :end 3)) 14:19:17 but that one uses a deprecated function :) 14:19:29 hah. 14:19:31 i just undeprecated it 14:19:43 bound to be removed any day now when the updated standard arrives 14:19:57 Because (find-if (complement #'numberp) list :end 3) is so much nicer 14:20:03 indeed 14:20:08 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:21:14 skunk_michi: anyway, on subseq and other functions, if you don't have at least three items in the list, it will raise a condition. The loop solution avoids that. 14:21:37 s/raise/signal/ 14:21:41 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:21:43 silly terminology 14:22:29 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:22:41 so why specifically conkerer? i.e. what prevents a firefox/... plugin? familiarity, or missing api or the size of those code bases ... 14:22:55 sry, wrong channel 14:24:11 bitonic` [~user@dyn1223-57.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:24:20 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has left #lisp 14:24:57 dlowe, if I set y to (1 2 3) and then do (let ((z (subseq y 0 2))) (setf (car z) 33)) y is still 1 2 3 -- so I truly copy the list, or? 14:25:09 I'd like to learn Lisp. Which dialect should I pick up? I'm a JS developer, with basic experience in C++ from my uni years. My primary purpose for learning Lisp is because it is "rumored" to expand one's horizons. ;) But also, I'd like it to be practical. (So not Scheme.) 14:25:18 monokai: you should learn common lisp. 14:25:38 dlowe, maybe if the elements were lists themselves, I would only get copies of the references 14:25:47 dlowe, isn't Clojure way more practical? 14:25:51 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:25:51 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:25:56 monokai: no 14:26:03 we even have a book 14:26:09 Practical Common Lisp 14:26:10 minion: tell monokai about practical common lisp 14:26:10 monokai: look at practical common lisp: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 14:26:30 skunk_michi: subseq doesn't do a "deep copy" 14:26:30 cool bot ;) 14:26:32 monokai: this is a common lisp channel. you might get different answers in a different channel like #scheme or #clojure 14:26:45 you probably will, but you came to us instead :) 14:26:49 Xach, I thought it's a general Lisp channel, not just CL. ;) 14:26:53 monokai: Nope. 14:26:53 and we're saying: common lisp is awesome 14:27:16 You'll find little solidarity among the lisp family 14:27:21 lol 14:27:35 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-122-4-182.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:28:02 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:28:42 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:43 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-97.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:29:39 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 14:33:43 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:36:56 neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:37:35 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:51 -!- neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has left #lisp 14:42:14 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 14:43:34 monokai: and, there is ABCL if you really need Java 14:45:36 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:46:07 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:09 Anyone know of any free or commercial Lisp implementations (or bindings) for OMG's DDS (Data Distribution Service)? 14:46:52 http://portals.omg.org/dds/ 14:47:26 patrickwonders: I'll be blunt and ask if there's *ANY* *USABLE* implementation 14:48:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-254-247-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:48:35 p_l: totally agree I can't even find a C binding that I'd consider FFI wrapping... 14:48:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:48:46 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:53 DDS is not my first choice... 14:49:07 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:51:09 *patrickwonders* will never appreciate the OMG mindset.... 14:51:13 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:40 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:58:46 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:59:06 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:00:51 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@88-105-59-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 15:02:45 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 15:03:15 imu96 [~imran@91.140.167.41] has joined #lisp 15:03:30 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-65-121-81.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:59 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:04:39 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:04:53 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:36 patrickwonders: Imagine the damage that OMG would have done if they had a Web Task Force. 15:06:04 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1223-57.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:06:41 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 15:10:17 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2FE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:36 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.167.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:26 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:14:45 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 15:16:39 dioxirane [~ff@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 15:18:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:18:35 -!- dioxirane [~ff@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Client Quit] 15:19:40 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:21:50 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 15:26:37 -!- skunk_michi 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joined #lisp 16:00:32 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 16:00:42 -!- sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:02:37 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:37 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:48 Why does (let ((a (list 1 2 3 4 5))) (setf (fifth a) 10) a) work as expected but (defun 5th (x) (fifth x)) and then (let ((a (list 1 2 3 4 5))) (setf (5th a) 10) a) gives a compile error? The function (COMMON-LISP:SETF COMMON-LISP-USER::5TH) is undefined 16:03:09 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 If I use a macro for 5th it does -- naturally -- work. 16:03:39 because setf doesn't know how to set a place just from that definition. how could it? 16:04:18 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:04 Bike, I thought, that setf operates on a reference passed by fifth? So 5th should return the same reference? 16:05:18 nope, no such references. 16:05:20 No, no references here. Have a look at DEFSETF and friends. 16:05:21 look at setf expanders. 16:05:46 s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:54 skunk_michi: when you write (setf (foo x) y) what actually happens is that a function called (setf foo) is called. setf functions are named by lists, not symbols actually 16:06:05 this function is not defined 16:06:18 Actually, there's an entire section in the CLHS about "Generalized Reference" that's good reading here. 16:06:20 clhs 5.1 16:06:20 Generalized Reference: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_a.htm 16:07:51 stopbit [~stopbit@198.178.121.206] has joined #lisp 16:07:57 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:23 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:25 -!- HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:04 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 16:10:52 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 16:13:21 Thank you. So using (defun 5th-set (vec val) (setf (fifth vec) val)) and (defsetf 5th 5th-set) I tell the setf-macro (!) how to interpret a call (setf (5th x) y) 16:14:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-254-247-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:10 (defun (setf 5th) (value list) ...) is even less work. 16:17:19 when I apply a duplicator combinator I should get one of their arguments doubles. My doubt is: What kind of data constructor (if any) I have to use to duplicate the argument/s? 16:17:43 s/doubles/doubled/ 16:17:57 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@59.40.222.130] has joined #lisp 16:18:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:18:30 pkhuong, so I have to write a setf-function of each getter as well...? 16:21:10 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:23:38 pavelpenev: that is actually the lowest priority thing that happens when setf 16:28:43 sellout-1 [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 16:29:42 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:39 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:30:46 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 16:31:58 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:32:30 -!- cannon [~user@ool-45701243.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:32 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:33:54 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.35.23.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:37 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:52 cannon [~user@ool-45701243.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:49 ehu [~Erik@109.35.23.28] has joined #lisp 16:37:15 bitonic` [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 16:37:36 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:39:20 josemanuel [~josemanue@26.173.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:41:32 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.79.142] has joined #lisp 16:46:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.79.142] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:49:17 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:31 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 16:50:55 I get rightly (equal (S #'k #'k #'k) (and (k #'k (k #'k)) #'k)) , so I've defined S as a combinator which accept three arguments in input, anyway sometimes I find expressions like S(KS)Kxyz where S seems accept even less arguments. How is this possible? 16:51:06 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:25 S(KS)Kxyz -> (KS)x(Kx) 16:52:34 er, (KS)x(Kx)yz. 16:54:26 Bike: thanks, anyway I don't understand The meaning of (KS) contained in S(KS)Kxyz ... what are the arguments I have to pass to S in (kS)? 16:54:49 pnpuff: (kS) defines the first argument to S, surely? 16:55:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:17 Or some variation like that. 16:55:26 (KS)x(Kx)yz -> Sx(Kx)yz or something like that 16:55:36 no, S(Kx)yz. 16:56:07 I've defined S simply as: (defun S(x y z) ((lambda ( z) (funcall x z (funcall y z))) x y z)) 16:56:19 The parens are delimiters for disambiguation, and have little to do with their use in some notations to define parameters for a call. 16:56:27 well, combinators aren't quite like functions. 16:56:37 sorry, as (defun S(x y z) ((lambda (x y z) (funcall x z (funcall y z))) x y z)) 16:56:46 At least, that's my (limited) understanding of the situation. 16:57:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:32 Bike: so what I have to do to manipulate combinators using Lisp if I do not use functions? 16:59:40 yes, combinatory logic is previous to lambda calculus... anyway I have to use functions. 17:05:09 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:14 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 17:07:47 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:09:23 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@59.40.222.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:30 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:38 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:13:26 anyone here ever had a huge core dump when forcing a loop to stop in clisp? 17:13:34 this is like the third time i have had that weirdness 17:13:49 like cntrl c or cntrl d in the interpreter 17:14:16 LMFAO....my terminal wanted to install a new font to view the core dump 17:15:03 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:51 Bike: aren't combinators simply higher order functions? 17:17:03 they just appply functions 17:17:16 well, curry them then. i'm rusty with ski. 17:17:38 that said, S, K and I just get functions as input 17:17:39 not values 17:18:36 so a good definition of I should be (defun I (f) (funcall f)) 17:19:03 no sorry 17:19:09 (defun I (f) f) 17:20:00 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:15 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-lkdeftldwjmpvpvp] has joined #lisp 17:20:19 Baszert [d9e763db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.231.99.219] has joined #lisp 17:21:22 This is porbably a stupid question but does anybody have a good idea for a weekend project I could do in common lips. I am currently learning the language so it shouldn't be something too difficult... 17:21:30 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:15 calculator? regex search? 17:22:29 Disassembler for some simple CPU or VM? 17:23:18 imo data structures 17:23:43 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:23:58 Bike: use lambda and function application only to demonstate generic recursion 17:24:09 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:23 ops the message was referred to Baszert ... 17:24:51 sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:24:56 Baszert: you may try something on Hackerrank 17:25:07 it's pretty funny 17:25:16 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:24 s/referred/addressed to/ 17:25:56 So many interessting ideas :) 17:26:12 I guess I am going to write a disassembler 17:27:09 AeroNotix [~xeno@abol221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:27:57 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:40 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 17:30:09 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 17:31:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:32:57 A disassembler for what system? 17:33:10 Bike: thanks for your suggestion of remove definitely variables from combinators definition... I have to test this approach to the problem... 17:33:43 * Blkt 17:33:54 :) 17:34:07 Autocomplete is mean? 17:34:07 be right back 17:35:00 nyef: what about DCPU-16? 17:37:44 -!- skunk_michi [~skunk_mic@pcphy21.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de] has left #lisp 17:38:23 Baszert: https://gist.github.com/death/2316075 17:41:09 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 17:42:58 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64DBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE64DBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:34 -!- Baszert [d9e763db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.231.99.219] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:48:34 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:50:13 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 17:52:17 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:52:51 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.35.23.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 18:01:27 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 18:02:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-254-247-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:42 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:06:31 Blkt: seems ok, I get : (equal (funcall #'S (k #'k) #'I 'a) (B #'k #'I 'a)) ==> T 18:06:50 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 now I've: (defun I (f) f)(defun K (f &optional g) f)(defun S (f g x) (funcall f x (funcall g x))) 18:08:33 k seems wrong. 18:08:35 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:14 Bike: (defun K (f (g ())) f) ? 18:11:28 that's not even valid. 18:12:15 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1f46.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:07 so maybe I've to use only (defun K (f g) f) 18:15:32 Bazert: An assembler or disassembler would be a good project if you like that sort of thing. 18:15:39 or (defun k (f) (lambda (g) (declare (ignore g)) f)) with currying. 18:18:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-65-121-81.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:19:03 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:00 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:02 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abol221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:21:03 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-59-72.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:14 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 Bike: why (defun K (f &optional g) f) seems wrong? 18:23:41 (Kx)y should be x, not xy 18:29:03 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 18:31:22 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-85-199.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:49 -!- nmeum [~nmeum@141.101.32.125] has left #lisp 18:32:39 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:32:59 Bike: (let ((k2 (defun k2 (f) (lambda (g) (declare (ignore g)) f)))) (FUNCALL (k2 'CC) 'DD)) => CC 18:33:14 but (let ((k2 (defun k2 (f) (lambda (g) (declare (ignore g)) f)))) (k2 'CC 'DD)) is wrong 18:33:33 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-29-177.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:33:41 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:47 yes 18:33:50 why are you telling me obvious things 18:34:15 pnpuff is a devious agent sent to waste your time 18:34:18 and all of #lisp's 18:34:35 sorry. 18:35:08 because (K x y) = x 18:35:22 ASau` [~user@p4FF960C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:46 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F7E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:15 why do you not ban me so that I can not more let you waste your time? :-) 18:37:18 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 18:37:28 Xach ? 18:38:11 your time is just wasted. 18:38:43 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:44:16 phf [~user@c-98-231-137-134.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:06 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-244-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:17 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 18:48:46 a question is never a waste of timr. your answer(if any) or your assertion is always a waste of time. 18:49:01 Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:32 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:20 BUT MAYBE #LISP is only the union of Xach and stassats... 18:51:31 anyway your cat is deviant. 18:56:19 nmeum [~nmeum@141.101.32.125] has joined #lisp 18:56:24 with slime, i want to be able to print some text and have a callback associated with it, so when you click on that text in slime-repl, the callback is called. (something like that is available in ccl/hemlock in clickable.lisp contrib) 18:57:08 is something like that available, or will slime-presentations be a sensible foundation to use (or maybe that's already almost supported), or should i just start from scratch? 18:59:09 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 19:00:39 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:46 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:01:33 pierpa``` [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:01:54 xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-130-144.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:44 aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has joined #lisp 19:03:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:55 -!- Oberon4278 is now known as Oberon111478XY 19:04:57 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 19:06:42 fantazo 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20:00:32 -!- cannon [~user@ool-45701243.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:02:23 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:19 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:06:20 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:03 -!- phf [~user@c-98-231-137-134.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:08:09 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:51 cannon [~user@ool-45701243.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:07 'night everybody. 20:10:16 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.231.170] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 20:10:45 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:12:13 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:23 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 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[Risto@77.29.229.108] has left #lisp 20:41:49 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:45:06 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:46:29 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:46:46 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:59 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:48:10 yakov [~yakov@46.194.16.72] has joined #lisp 20:48:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:37 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-244-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:41 -!- CrazyEddy [~tannyl@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:52:35 and the best imap client package in quicklisp is..... ? 20:53:37 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-244-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:54:47 xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-130-144.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:13 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:00:13 am going to try clonsigna 21:00:48 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:03 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:02:51 -!- yakov [~yakov@46.194.16.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:56 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 21:04:48 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:06:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:14 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:01 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:52 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:11:27 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 21:12:46 pyx [~pyx@24.212.148.106] has joined #lisp 21:13:05 -!- pyx [~pyx@24.212.148.106] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:04 -!- cannon is now known as Schmudde 21:14:43 -!- Oberon4278 is now known as YesThisIsDog 21:14:52 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:02 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:16:04 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:26 -!- YesThisIsDog is now known as Oberon4278 21:17:25 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66.87.82.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:45 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:22:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:42 -!- sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:01 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 21:23:09 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:25:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-243.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:17 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:30 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:30 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 21:37:29 does anyone else throw around :keywords instead of 'symbols because you don't have to think about evaluation? 21:37:52 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:33 no, it seems like a bad idea 21:42:41 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:44:42 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:03 bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has joined #lisp 21:45:18 -!- aw|sovereign [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:45:59 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ydnntwbudvuqbquj] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:47:03 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:05 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:49:35 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:51 aw|sovereign [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 21:51:01 adeht: is there a specific reason? 21:51:01 -!- bitonic [~user@2.222.182.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:48 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:09 protist: just the usual, collision avoidance 21:56:30 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:58:15 -!- zz_runningskull [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:58:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@146.147-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:19 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:51 -!- rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep. zZZzzZz] 22:07:59 Ulysses22222 [~daniel@109.226.13.138] has joined #lisp 22:08:04 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-161-147.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:41 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 22:09:00 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 22:09:23 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 22:09:40 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:11:02 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-31-128.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:11:13 can a package import from a package that is defined in the same file after the package? 22:11:13 rbento [~rbento@187.104.147.13] has joined #lisp 22:16:59 that's a confused question.. packages don't import things.. in order to import a symbol from a package, that package has to exist.. if it does not exist, an error will be signaled. 22:17:17 jacekpod [~jacek@94-192-215-222.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:18:03 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:16 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:56 *PuercoPop* nods 22:20:58 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:14 So is there a pattern for multiple packages in the same system? 22:21:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:54 I put my package definitions in a packages.lisp file.. and their order matters 22:23:15 Aste123 [~Aste123@198.144.189.21] has joined #lisp 22:23:29 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 22:23:33 cgore [~cgore@108-209-245-92.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:25 I was following the packages convention, and now reordered. 22:24:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:10 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:26:21 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:21 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:26:21 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:28:09 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:32:58 kisp [~kisp@91-66-231-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:35:56 syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:57 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:35:57 syrinx_ 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