00:00:53 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:01 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 00:03:13 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:48 -!- kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:48 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:38 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:23 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-99.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:56 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:51 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:40 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:24 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:24:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:04 A question about READ-PRESERVING-WHITESPACE, I never completely implemented it last year when I wrote my CL reader and implemented READ. 00:27:37 When I implemented it, I wrote it in C++ following the algorithm described in CLHS 2.2 00:28:24 At step 8 at the bottom it says "First the character y is unread if appropriate (see read-preserving-whitespace), and then step 10 is entered. 00:29:29 When I wrote the reader I put in a test at the bottom of step 8 to check if *PRESERVING-WHITESPACE-P* is true and if it us, UNREAD the character. 00:29:43 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 00:29:46 Question: Is that all there is to READ-PRESERVING-WHITESPACE? 00:30:11 Is that the only difference between the READ-PRESERVING-WHITESPACE function and the READ function? 00:31:52 If I set sys::*PRESERVING-WHITESPACE-P* to T and call the reader, what's the best way to test if it's behaving like a CL compliant READ-PRESERVING-WHITESPACE function. 00:32:00 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.159.152] has quit [Quit: brb] 00:32:41 Blkt [~user@82.84.159.152] has joined #lisp 00:33:22 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-98-115-48-162.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:49 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.80.78] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:30 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 00:35:11 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 00:36:04 drmeister, have you written any cool utility functions 00:36:49 In every way that I've been able to detect the reader I wrote is a canonical Common Lisp reader, it reads about 50 ECL source files unmodified - and these were inherited from other implementations of CL. 00:37:04 Quadrescence: Everything I write is cool :-) What do you mean? 00:38:23 Have I implemented anything in this Common Lisp? Not yet, I'm still working on getting it running bullet-proof and under SLIME. 00:38:32 drmeister: yes the only difference is that READ-PRESERVING-WHITESPACE doesn't consume any whitespace following the object it reads 00:38:40 Quadrescence: do you have list-interleave function in your utilities? 00:38:49 pkhuong, riffle? 00:38:51 drmeister: Quadrescence is collecting a bunch of common-lisp utilities 00:39:00 (x y z) a ==> (x a y a z) ? 00:39:19 someone just sent NTH-DIGIT and a SETF expansion for it, i thought that was really cool 00:39:25 jasom: Thanks! 00:40:07 The stuff I'm writing isn't portable - I'm hooking into Clang's C++ AST walker. I'm going to write Common Lisp programs that improve C++. 00:40:15 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:26 Quadrescence: no (interleave '(a b c) '(d e f g) '(h i)) => '(a d h b e i c f g) 00:40:39 I've got a lot of crappy C++. 00:40:45 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 00:41:19 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.159.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:41:49 pkhuong, ah, the closest thing I have is: 00:41:50 CL-USER> (qtl:weave '(a b c) '(d e f g) '(h i)) 00:41:50 (A D H B E I) 00:42:00 Quadrescence: a generalisation of weave, specified to resume on any remaining lists whenever one is exhausted. 00:42:21 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:42:26 pkhuong, no I do not have that; that is like the difference between ZIP and LONG-ZIP (sort of) 00:43:02 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 00:43:43 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.203.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:43:54 pkhuong, do you have code for it? 00:44:05 Quadrescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137678 00:44:07 I'm about to implement a serious garbage collector. I'm going to use the Memory Pool System from Ravenbrook (www.ravenbrook.com/project/mps) - has anyone worked with it or have any feelings about it? 00:44:47 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 00:45:35 drmeister, that was one of the SBCL project ideas 00:46:07 pkhuong, should this really be NCONCing? 00:46:13 Cool - then thoughtful people think it's a sound idea. 00:46:50 Quadrescence: the inner loop collects into a fresh list 00:47:29 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 00:49:12 oops yes 00:49:18 Blkt [~user@82.84.149.56] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.189.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:13 pkhuong, added :D 00:54:43 Quadrescence: cool. 00:55:49 even if nobody uses quickutil as a library, at least it can be a canonical library of Cool Things 00:56:03 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:54 -!- iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:56:58 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:57:46 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.107.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:30 zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.158.9] has joined #lisp 01:01:49 jimrthy [~james@cpe-70-112-206-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:08 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:09 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:10 *Quadrescence* thinks there needs to be a FLATTEN for any monoid in Lisp. 01:06:27 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:54 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-azabzixldrqkhqsj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:09:08 -!- vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:09:08 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:09:19 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:09:37 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hoeqfzqmlrpyaran] has joined #lisp 01:09:58 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 01:13:36 vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has joined #lisp 01:15:20 Quadrescence: eh, how would that work? 01:15:45 like if you have a "nested" monoid you fold over the inner monoid or what? 01:16:41 Well I guess I mean FLATTEN-ONCE 01:17:36 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 01:17:51 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:19:07 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:20:16 Quadrescence: how would it work for integers? 01:20:16 (since they are a monoid) 01:20:30 (under addition or multiplication that is) 01:22:01 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:13 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:25:53 Nisstyre-laptop, it wouldn't since addition and friends are surjective 01:26:32 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:26:41 actually I'm not sure that's the reason, but in any case, please bask in the beauty of this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/137680 01:28:26 (FLATTEN-PROGN was actually the motivation) 01:30:09 Quadrescence: cool 01:31:07 Quadrescence: that makes me think, I'm finding appending to generated code more and more convenient these days, e.g. (append `(let ...) `(implicit progn)). 01:32:06 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:32:12 Convenient indeed :)) 01:32:34 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:57 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:50 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 01:34:18 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-190-120-155.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:37 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:37 stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has joined #lisp 01:41:08 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:46 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:42:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:44:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:47:35 bitonic` [~user@dyn1242-199.vpn.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:48:58 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:49:00 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 01:55:38 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:35 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:59:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:01:20 Any existing CL libraries around for things like X10, ZigBee, Z-Wave, or easyRadio? 02:05:36 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:06 sellout-, what are those? (clearly I don't know the answer if I am asking this) 02:06:21 Quadrescence: Home automation-y things. 02:06:44 I bought a bunch of X10 stuff about 10 years ago. All I remember is waking up at 3:00am when all the lights in the room decided that they wanted to go on automatically. 02:06:45 X10 (at least my X10) works via powerlines, whereas the others are low-power radios. 02:07:16 drmeister: Yeah, X10 is the worst of the lot, but I still have my old stuff wired up for the time being. 02:07:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:07:37 Old enough that I need a serial->USB adapter :) 02:08:16 am I old if I need a USB->serial adapter? 02:08:31 Your old if you know what a serial adapter is. 02:08:50 heh 02:08:53 You're 02:09:09 *Quadrescence* had to solder on a new serial port to an old NuBUS card the other day 02:09:16 *Quadrescence*  and a battery to a motherboard :( 02:10:05 Quadrescence: Ive been soldering, but only modern things like Arduinos and mesh network radios ;) 02:12:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:15:07 i have some CL libs that i installed onto my system using gentoo's package manager 02:15:16 i'm also running quicklisp 02:15:23 it seems to be finding those in preference to its own 02:15:56 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845466952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:16:58 what is "it" and "those" in that sentence? 02:18:00 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 02:19:26 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:42 CL-USER> (remove "clsql" (ql:system-list) :test-not 'equal :key (rcurry 'slot-value 'ql::name)) 02:19:43 (#) 02:19:54 CL-USER> (ql:where-is-system "clsql") 02:19:54 #P"/usr/share/common-lisp/source/clsql/" 02:20:17 i've checked asdf:*central-registry* and *default-pathname-defaults* and ~/.cache/common-lisp 02:20:25 the gentoo lisp overlay aranges for its systems to be found first. there's an init file in /etc if I remember correctly. 02:21:12 vsync: quicklisp will normally load things visible via the asdf source registry in preference to quicklisp libraries. 02:21:47 Fade: which it does, but all it seems to do is set up logical pathnames for sbcl source, and load asdf 02:22:45 i even tried resetting asdf:*central-registry* 02:22:52 do you have ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf ? 02:23:02 Is anyone familiar with ECL's top-level REPL loop and the keyword commands? There seems to be a lot of commands available but :help only shows a few of them. 02:23:14 vsync: asdf:*central-registry* is the old registry system. there's a new one that is configured differently. 02:23:20 i don't even have ~/.config/common-lisp/ 02:23:25 Xach: oh 02:23:37 it also checks some /etc/ file and some environment variables and 7 other things 02:23:38 There seems to be a lot of commands available when I look at the ECL top.lsp source file. 02:24:03 hum 02:24:15 vsync: for details see http://l1sp.org/asdf/manual 02:24:40 check that the profile in /etc isn't setting up various system level things related to lisp. 02:24:43 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845466952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:25:00 *vsync* finds helpfulness that happens behind his back frustrating 02:25:08 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845466952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:25:33 It is one reason I generally prefer to avoid distro packages for CL 02:25:49 what I did was unmerge the lisp overlay, and install sbcl myself. 02:25:55 but, ymmv 02:26:01 i would prefer everything to be distro managed 02:26:04 or through os packaging 02:26:07 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:26:26 Why? 02:26:28 quicklisp is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it irks me to have a package manager per language 02:26:35 well, that's going against the grain of the lisp ecology, but as you will. 02:26:50 Fair enough. I view the distro as a bootstrap system for Quicklisp. 02:26:52 when you find the answer to your question, you should write it down on a blog. :) 02:27:04 give me wget and i'm set. 02:27:10 (or curl) 02:28:09 ditto 02:28:20 how can i make quicklisp/asdf tell me why it's finding things where? 02:29:05 ahh, found it... /etc/common-lisp/source-registry.conf 02:29:10 see above 02:29:26 and i think if *central-registry* is set it should take precedence over everything else 02:29:31 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.23.77] has joined #lisp 02:29:38 (:source-registry (:tree (:home "blah/blah/blah")) :inherit-configuration) 02:30:03 is what I have in my ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf 02:30:10 'cept indented. 02:30:10 vsync: the ultimate arbiter is asdf:*system-definition-search-functions* 02:30:19 well, ultimate user-configurable arbiter. 02:33:03 bbl 02:35:18 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:35:34 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:36:48 PuercoPo` [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 02:37:15 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:38:14 -!- jimrthy [~james@cpe-70-112-206-173.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:38:39 I guess this is a sufficient pseudo-generalization of FLATTEN without that monoid haskell-looking business http://quickutil.org/list?q=flatten-tagged-once 02:39:55 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Quit: checkity check out.] 02:40:20 I seem to only get the directory despite the query 02:41:05 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.23.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:51 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:42:33 drmeister: see - http://ecls.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ecls/ecl/src/lsp/top.lsp?revision=1.109&view=markup#l52 02:42:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:43:14 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:40 bhyde: Thanks - I've got it running in my CL environment but the restart commands like :r1 aren't doing anything (sigh) 02:44:42 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:44:44 I see now that the commands available change when you enter the debugger. 02:45:31 -!- pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:48 that quickutil system is pretty neat 02:47:52 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:53 "Quickutil is the FUTURE-COMMON-LISP." -- Jen Simms 02:50:19 ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:23 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:58 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:53:13 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 02:53:14 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:55:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 02:56:06 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:56:40 it's good as an online catalogue of CL utilities 02:56:53 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 02:56:53 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1242-199.vpn.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:08 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 but I still don't understand why one should use (qtl:utilize :alexandria), instad of just :depends-on :alexandria in ASDF system 02:57:50 well to be honest, if you want to just use alexandria, you might as well use alexandria, unless you want to make use of other things quickutil has 02:58:50 Quadrescence: are the other things also independent libraries, like split-sequence? 02:59:08 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: El motor por excelencia http://www.europio.org/] 02:59:26 I just have split-sequence and alexandria. S-S was the request of someone else, who wanted to use it in conjunction with other things. 03:00:13 it's nice that you can get just the utils you want out of the catalogue instead of loading all of alexandria into your image. 03:00:22 the idiom is concise. 03:00:23 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:00:26 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:45 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:00:50 (I have met people who, somewhat stupidly, boycott Lisp because it doesn't have SPLIT-SEQUENCE natively, and they must load that library in addition to 25 others to complete their chest of auxiliary functions in order to write their app.) 03:00:58 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 03:01:18 (SPLIT-SEQUENCE as an inclusion under the utility umbrella sort of addresses that, for better or for worse.) 03:01:29 Quadrescence: you could introduce them to saved cores 03:01:45 Quadrescence: someone asked about how to write join (what you call "riffle") the other day and i had to resist the urge to tell them about your project! 03:02:39 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-34-54.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:03:27 Bike, you monster 03:05:19 I was perusing "util.lisp" files on github, and I think I saw "MULF" and "DIVF" about 25 times. 03:06:08 multiply float? 03:06:30 no, a companion to INCF and DECF 03:06:55 oh, yeah, i've done that a few times 03:07:53 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08:01 -!- brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:08:02 of course you should now use http://quickutil.org/list?q=mulf 03:08:52 what's orthogonality, exactly 03:09:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:09:23 brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has joined #lisp 03:09:25 things i personally believe are incomplete along orthogonal axes of common lisp, AKA things that seem natural to put in CLTL3, to me 03:09:25 n 1: the relation of opposition between things at right angles 03:10:13 "we have DOLIST, DOTIMES, where's DOVECTOR and DOHASH?", that sort of stuff 03:10:33 (yes, of course we have hash table iterators and MAP and stuff) 03:10:40 Fade, things being triangle, explicit, :) 03:10:44 that sounds like a bizarre grouping, but hey whatever 03:11:30 Bike, maybe a little bit bizarre. :) "We have IDENTITY, COMPLEMENT, and FUNCALL. It's only natural we have COMPOSE too!" 03:11:52 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:12:08 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:12:11 "PROG2 and MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1, where's M-V-PROG2?" I think you understand. 03:12:53 i'm... not sure i've ever wanted the arccotangent, hm 03:13:07 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 03:13:13 write some more special function code D: 03:13:16 does that definition even work well numerically 03:13:24 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:13:34 Bike, I highly doubt it 03:15:20 How do I get the slot names for an object of a class or structure? 03:16:07 Did you write the class? Presumably you would have defined some accessors with it, if you wrote it. 03:16:18 drmeister: (mapcar #'mop:slot-definition-name (mop:class-slots class)) 03:16:56 chu, unless you want to write moppy code 03:17:27 chu: No - it's just something that keeps coming up - I've got an object in the repl and I'd like to know what accessor functions it has. 03:17:57 Bike: Thanks - I was under the mistaken impression that there was a simple command for that. 03:18:08 drmeister: there's also mop:slot-definition-readers if you want the accessors, etc 03:18:12 pprint 03:18:28 drmeister: if you're just doing repl stuff i'd use describe 03:18:34 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:19:35 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:06 or you could just ask slime who specialises the class 03:20:13 *drmeister* goans - my describe is broken 03:20:36 M-x slime-who-specializes 03:21:26 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:34 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:29:15 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:30:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:18 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:31:45 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:31:56 ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-220-198.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:03 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 03:35:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:28 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:42:11 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:47:34 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:48:07 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:48:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:51:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:11 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:53:36 Fade: that just blew my mind! 03:54:11 I had know idea that level of tooling was available in slime. what is x-ref ? cross reference between slime and the repl? 03:54:23 cross reference between definitions. 03:54:27 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 03:54:28 e.g. slime-who-calls 03:54:28 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 03:54:28 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:54:40 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 03:56:13 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:03 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 03:57:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:59 between definitions? So you mean between different functions/variables/classes/macros in the CL environment? 03:58:04 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:37 sure. 04:00:59 Cool, I recently found slime-tips on tumblr. Going to read those and then probably start reading the slime manual. Y basically only use C-c C-e, M-. and C-c C-z on slime. No idea I was missing out so much. 04:01:26 there's M-x slime-cheat-sheet 04:02:12 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:02:27 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:05:02 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 04:05:03 *PuercoPop* nods 04:05:20 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 04:05:37 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:07:24 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:45 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 04:10:51 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-220-198.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:11:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:11:56 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:11:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 04:12:18 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:13:18 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 04:13:37 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:13:48 -!- ckoch_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:03 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:12 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18:03 kisp [~kisp@91-66-231-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:20:49 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:05 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:21:19 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 04:21:38 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:22:18 -!- kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:23:19 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 04:24:01 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:25:34 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:25:46 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 04:26:08 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:26:21 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:15 is there a way in SBCL's profiler to figure out what % of consing it reports is done on the stack vs the heap? I previously assumed consing was always on the heap, but recently discovered the existence of dynamic-extent declarations 04:28:34 i don't think it's called consing if it's stack space. 04:28:55 do you mean the profiler ignores those? 04:30:46 the HyperSpec lists examples of declaring newly-made lists as dynamic-extent. I suppose I can make a test to find out whether it ignores those completely 04:31:28 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.116] has joined #lisp 04:34:15 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845466952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:38:37 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:38:59 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:59 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:01:34 iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:45 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 05:03:56 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 05:05:50 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:06:13 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:07:14 shwouchk [~user@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 05:08:21 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 Hello 05:09:27 I can't get the "directory" function to work 05:09:56 Just try replacing the path with the path plus "/*.*" 05:10:09 Should fix it 05:10:22 also see cl-fad 05:10:22 Corvidium: doesn't "/*" suffice? 05:10:40 *Corvidium* shrugs 05:10:54 This is what I was recommended, and it worked for me 05:11:30 DataLinkDroid: yes, I got it, but it seems ridiculous that I should need an external library just to list directory contents... 05:11:57 shwouchk, you have to remember that directories weren't and haven't always been the same 05:12:01 shwouchk: key to getting it to work is to understand pathnames and wildcards 05:12:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 05:12:23 Also, CL assumes that directories are not files. Posix assumes otherwise. 05:12:27 I really ought to work on the Koioslisp spec 05:12:30 shwouchk: what problem do you have to directory? 05:12:48 Corvidium: weird, I was sure I tried *.* in the past, but it seems to work now. I wonder if it will work for files w/o a . in the name 05:12:55 *shwouchk* goes to test 05:13:13 Quadrescence: elaborate please? 05:13:24 well Zhivago gave a good example 05:13:47 shwouchk, what is a directory? do hardlinks count? what about symlinked files? 05:14:35 PuercoPop: (directory "~/foo/*") gives nothing even though it is non-empty. Corvidium's advice to put *.* instead of * helped here 05:14:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has joined #lisp 05:14:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has quit [Changing host] 05:14:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:15:03 the former trick works on LispWorks IIRC 05:15:43 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:15:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:16:25 sdemarre [~serge@247.174-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:16:48 Quadrescence: on my system (and I think most linuxes) you cannot have hardlinks to directories. A directory is a node in the tree that represents the filesystem I guess? I see your point though 05:17:07 H4ns: can you elaborate please? 05:17:16 Funny story about my computational linguistics class where I used lisp for everything. Once, we had to do a giant corpus processing task, and the server only had Allegro CL (I am used to SBCL). My solution was taking 5 hours to run (I know it was making progress because I had the function TRACEd). It turns out that Allegro CL doesn't compile by default. I added type declarations and compiled the files, then ran it. It only took 05:17:19 H4ns: or point me to somewhere that does? 05:17:20 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 05:17:46 Corvidium, you were cut off at "it only took ..." 05:17:55 3 minutes 46 seconds to run, and was entirely correct 05:18:57 shwouchk: you could start here: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node203.html 05:19:11 shwouchk: that will also give you a perspective on the history of pathnames 05:19:35 shwouchk: one thing to note is that cl pathnames are not good for dealing with arbitrary files created by non-cl programs. 05:19:36 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 05:19:53 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:19:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:19:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:20:44 H4ns: oh.. How would one deal with those then? 05:21:05 shwouchk: if you're using a posix system, you might try iolib 05:21:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:07 H4ns: thanks 05:23:28 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:23:53 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:24:17 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:26:08 Corvidium: what kind of stuff do you do for computer linguistics? 05:29:39 iig00cz: Well, we first did regexen, then FSAs, then CFGs, then corpora, then semantic parsing 05:30:05 and I totally understand what all of those mean :p 05:30:17 I'll look it up, though, computational linguistics looks cool 05:30:42 I have mixed feelings, being a student of linguistics first and foremost 05:30:52 There's a bit of a tension between linguists 05:32:32 what do you mean Corvidium ? 05:33:24 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 05:33:44 also, what kind of jobs are in the linguistics field? 05:34:21 iig00cz: mostly academic unless you go into computational linguistics 05:34:35 what's in computational linguistics? 05:35:26 Oh, machine translation 05:35:36 iig00cz: google linguistlist if you want to get an idea of the job market for various linguistic fields. 05:35:39 parsing jobs for a lot of things 05:35:54 e.g. search 05:36:01 ty 05:37:22 The tension is between some computation linguists (specifically, those who use statistical methods) and non-computational linguists (specifically, those who are concerned more about theoretical value and understanding) 05:37:33 The main figureheads here are Peter Norvig and Noam Chomsky 05:37:56 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 05:38:22 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 05:38:28 -!- xristos is now known as Guest11023 05:38:37 I'm not going to go into greater detail, but suffice it to say, I think that computational methods are useful but not sufficiently theoretically valuable 05:39:02 oh 05:39:13 I just read an article about something along these lines the other day 05:40:55 Corvidium: http://www.wellnowwhat.net/blog/?p=503 it's my friend's blog that I was checking out. some of the technical information is out of my league but you'll probably get most if not all of it 05:41:53 Mm 05:42:40 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:42:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:43:11 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:43:11 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 05:43:20 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:43:27 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:44:12 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:44:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.80.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:44:55 -!- sdemarre [~serge@247.174-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:48:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:49:18 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:50:35 b1101 [~b@108.61.50.108] has joined #lisp 05:51:15 so what's a good reason for someone learning programming languages to learn lisp 05:51:22 yati [~yati@116.203.170.116] has joined #lisp 05:51:45 b1101: it is a beautiful language with unique properties not found in other languages. 05:51:47 It's pretty easy to write interpreters and compilers in lisp, so it can help pedagogy. 05:52:02 Man, I really should work on koioslisp right now 05:53:29 so far I've done C/C++, java, and some perl. What am I missing that lisp can provide ? 05:53:31 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 05:53:41 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:46 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:53:46 b1101: macros, metaprogramming, programmable reader. 05:54:23 When we say macros, we do not mean C macros 05:54:38 We mean something far more interesting 05:55:04 b1101: also: sane syntax (compared to what you know) 05:55:36 b1101: You should also learn prolog. 05:55:49 It gives some perspective to stand on a different mountain. 05:56:23 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:44 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:56:49 c/c++/java are on the same mountain, perl is on the isle of insanity, lisp is on a different mountain with a different history and different roots. 05:58:45 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.59.171] has joined #lisp 05:59:37 Although I don't pay the unique property argument these days -- most of the good stuff has been well mined. 06:00:36 Zhivago: certainly. but should we, in #lisp, tell someone who asks us why he should look at lisp that he should not, because other languages exist? 06:00:50 or she, fwiw 06:01:08 they works as a neutral pronoun 06:01:19 apologies 06:01:23 I don't see anyone making that argument. 06:01:46 But if you're going to argue for the unique properties, it's going to be a short list of low relevance. 06:02:04 Most of them remaining unique because they're not very useful. :) 06:02:26 Or because once you add them, the language becomes Lisp 06:03:09 Not individually, so in that case you're not talking about unique features, but an emergent ecosystem. 06:03:19 What I find phenomenal about Lisp (I'm a newbie) is that it came up with dynamic typing, garbage collection, keyword arguments, optional arguments long long ago. And no language still beats it at code generation. I still am trying to wrap my head around macros, though. 06:05:29 So, I'd say that you should learn lisp because it is somewhere new and strange. 06:05:37 Learn it for the same reason that you travel. 06:05:42 correct 06:05:53 you don't have to work with it daily 06:06:07 yati: macro is just a function which compiler uses to transform code before compilation. end of story. 06:06:42 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:07:28 jdz, I get that, but when someone uses complex stuff like `(foo ,bar ,@baz) to return from a macro, I have to think for a while. It's the "what gets evaluated when" thing that trips me 06:07:47 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:07:59 yati: oh, then it's the quasiquote, not macros, that you have to wrap your head around 06:08:04 jdz: don't most macros work at compile time? and then reader macros work on any syntax, not just code? 06:08:13 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:08:14 yati: you know you can use quasiquote without macros, right? 06:08:27 hello guys! I have to test (label f (lambda (x) (cons (cons (quote x) nil) (cons (cons (quote x) nil) nil)))) (equal (f 'x) (f #'f)) 06:08:30 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 and macros without quasiquote, for that matter 06:08:38 jdz, yeah but people tend to use them in macros to force evaluation 06:08:41 is right? 06:08:55 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:32 yati: yeah, but in the quasiquote you gave, you could as well write (list *'foo bar baz); and instead of this for, one could use the quasiquote you gave 06:09:43 *form 06:10:03 What does the * before 'foo do? 06:10:08 bah, (list* 'foo bar baz) 06:10:16 ah 06:10:28 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:10:46 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:11:20 PuercoPop: reader macros to macros are like JavaScript to Java 06:11:58 i.e., completely different beasts 06:12:10 jdz: ` is called a quasiquote? 06:12:18 yes 06:12:18 Almost a quote? 06:12:34 what are , and @ called? 06:12:42 just comma and at? :p 06:12:51 clhs 2.4.6 06:12:52 Backquote: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 06:13:16 jdz: the way I conceptualized it was macros transform lisp/s-exp forms into lisp/s-exp forms. And reader macros transform whatever into lisp/s-exp forms. 06:13:27 how do I compile the hello world .lsp file I found 06:13:49 (compile-file filename) 06:13:53 through terminal possibly 06:14:00 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:14 what's the actual compile command. 06:14:22 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:14:25 My friends in MBA think JavaScript is an advanced version of Java. And man, is it hard to explain! 06:14:26 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:14:38 lol 06:14:39 you can probably do ./file.lsp 06:14:42 PuercoPop: that's pretty accurate 06:14:53 b1101: it's like i said. lisp isn't as batch compile oriented as you might be used to. 06:15:02 also b1101, if you're wanting to get into lisp, slime+emacs is nearly imperative 06:15:17 PuercoPop: read character streams into sexps. 06:15:28 *PuercoPop* nods 06:15:42 I have never used emacs....vi yea, but not emacs 06:15:48 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:15:52 slime is great. I am a vim user. But emacs is worth learning 06:15:59 btw, on a tangential question, can I create input-streams with some value? 06:16:06 I too was averse in the beginning. 06:16:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:16:21 PuercoPop: like a string-input-stream? 06:16:33 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:17:58 Like say I want to creat an input stream that is going to return the contents of this string 06:18:10 iig00cz: ... maybe lisp is not batch compile oriented, but lisp is able of self evaluate itself! :-) 06:18:21 clhs with-input-from-string 06:18:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_in_f.htm 06:18:42 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:19:10 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:19:18 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:19:23 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:19:34 Thanks Bike! now I think I have everything to get my test suit ready for when Lisp in Summer starts! 06:20:11 probably going to toy with an echo server just to get a hang of usockets beforehand too 06:20:34 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 06:21:01 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 06:21:18 teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has joined #lisp 06:21:45 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:21:46 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host60-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:22:22 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:22:39 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:24:38 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.23.77] has joined #lisp 06:27:31 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:30:02 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:30:53 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:31:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:31:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has joined #lisp 06:31:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has quit [Changing host] 06:31:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:33:43 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.158.9] has left #lisp 06:35:50 pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:36:39 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.59.171] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:37:22 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.23.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:27 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:40:23 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.23.77] has joined #lisp 06:41:31 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:42:40 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:44:12 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-avccmkajgjyaabyi] has joined #lisp 06:44:52 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:45:07 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:45:13 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-avccmkajgjyaabyi] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:42 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-aegnlimecxnkbppl] has joined #lisp 06:47:15 aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 06:47:29 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.23.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:47:38 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:49:53 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: guru meditation] 06:51:40 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:56 ;Good morning! 06:53:43 zorkmoid, i bet you have some cool self-contained functions you can share 06:54:00 you seem like the kind of person that has a "UTILS.LISP" file somewhere 06:54:56 I'm trying to evaluate a simple form in my interpreter but is a little problematic since the form is : (EVAL '(F #'F)), so at the moment i'm a bit rambling ... this is the result I get at the moment: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685 06:55:29 Quadrescence: I call it ETC.LISP ... 06:55:33 ...any suggestion? thanks! 06:56:23 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 06:56:32 zorkmoid, if you haven't heard already, I am trying to collect utility functions that get duplicated a lot for a new project http://quickutil.org 06:56:44 Quadrescence: but it doesn't have that much funky stuff, the normal anaphoric functions, gensym generators, hash table iterators 06:56:55 Quadrescence: the usual "make pretty objects printable" from clos ... 06:57:49 Quadrescence: oh, my favourite is max&min ... since i use it alot :-) 06:58:07 pnpuff: your function body doesn't use the parameter. what's the problem 06:59:31 Quadrescence: how does one submit stuff? 06:59:35 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:59:36 i like the idea ... 06:59:53 http://quickutil.org/submit 06:59:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:00:05 not sure if i would use it, but being able to search a bunch of functions that aren't in your normal toolchest, to see if something can be done differently, better is good 07:00:07 right now, perhaps unfortunately, thru github 07:01:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:01:50 yeah, which i don't even consider usable :-) 07:02:07 I'd like to see an internet apropos or something .. 07:02:48 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.42] has joined #lisp 07:03:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has joined #lisp 07:03:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has quit [Changing host] 07:03:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:03:34 and that people would write docstrings damn it... 07:03:38 zorkmoid, there are more ways to use it than what is described on the home page 07:03:39 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 07:03:44 and a markup language for docstrings 07:04:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:25 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.42] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:44 Ideas are spawning this morning .. 07:06:08 how about pressing some key-combo, getting some documentation rendered in org-mode or whatever, that is store in some "canonical place" ... 07:06:29 documentation for what? 07:06:43 Functions ... classes, everything. 07:07:10 i would be very surprised if at least the first half of that hasn't been done already 07:07:20 me too.. 07:07:34 on one hand, docstrings tend to get in the way ... 07:07:39 specially if they are longish 07:08:02 maybe somehow compress them into an elipsis that you can view.. 07:09:22 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 07:10:03 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:10:20 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:10:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:01 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:30 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:15:05 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.92.3] has joined #lisp 07:15:08 I'm not understanding what happens :-( because of I get a "strange" result: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685#1 07:15:22 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:16:01 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:18:14 https://gist.github. 07:20:31 Quadrescence: really nice little web page. 07:20:41 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:20:46 zorkmoid, thanks 07:20:59 ok, so even (my-apply '(lambda (x) x) '((lambda (x) x)) '((f lambda (x) x) (.f lambda (x) x))) => nil (as does (my-apply '(lambda (x) x) 'nil 'nil) 07:21:53 -!- abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:23:06 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:23:23 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:24:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-28-25.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:18 oh... i have a nice idea for docstrings! extracting the default value via some means from a defun or whatever ... that would be cooool 07:24:31 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:36 -!- theos is now known as Guest35334 07:25:00 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:25:29 abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:37 (defun foo (&key (i 65)) "The default value of I is /I/." ...) ---> would render a docstring that says: The default value of FOO is 65. 07:26:09 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.198] has joined #lisp 07:27:31 -!- Guest35334 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:27:48 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:10 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:29:07 mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has joined #lisp 07:29:28 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:46 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:29:55 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:30:38 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:31:43 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:32:00 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:32:38 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:33:42 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:34:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-awevohjilwoodvtl] has joined #lisp 07:34:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-awevohjilwoodvtl] has quit [Changing host] 07:34:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:35:11 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:34 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:35:56 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:36:24 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:36:51 zorkmoid: that could be done with a clever macro that expands to defun 07:37:04 astertronistic: no fun 07:37:47 yeah, 07:38:12 i was thinking more of the line of frobbing emacs so that it shows docstrings 07:38:17 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 07:38:26 and then doing // stuff there ... it already does it for `function' kinda constructs 07:38:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:38:36 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:38:38 yeah, that could be done too. 07:38:48 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.7] has joined #lisp 07:38:54 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwbydhqjsotasznr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:39:01 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 that's a nice thing about lisp. it's easy to inspect and traverse. you can pull out the info you need 07:39:39 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:43 astertronistic, that is not true and I have a recent example. For quickutil I wanted to store the definitions of functions and whatever 07:40:18 but as soon as you have reader macros, quasiquotes, etc, it doesn't really work out, and a character encoding really is the best 07:40:43 yeah, I could see that. At some point it forces evaluation of expressions 07:41:31 ..... Now evalutation is aborted abnormally: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685#2 :-( ..... any help? 07:41:35 macros used in the top level, that expand to definitions are another problem 07:41:42 yes indeed 07:41:56 in order to pull the doc strings from them, you need to expand them 07:42:26 in a running system that is trivial 07:42:27 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 07:42:44 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 07:42:48 it is best to approach common lisp from a practical angle. it is easy to become frustrated when trying to develop complete solutions. 07:42:53 hajovonta [yyahctd@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 07:42:56 hello 07:43:09 hi hajovonta ! 07:43:43 yeah, I guess in a running system, the definitions have been processed. So you should try to pull info from the loaded environment, rather than from traversing the source 07:44:16 astertronistic: yup, just a "simple" call to DOCUMENTATION or whatever 07:44:35 ehu [~Erik@109.35.133.239] has joined #lisp 07:46:14 but then how do you store things like line numbers and file names for definitions. You would need to create macros for defun and defvar that write the current source location to some registry, 07:46:43 and then how do you access the location in the source file, while expressions are evaluated 07:46:56 oudeis [~oudeis@87.69.198.30] has joined #lisp 07:46:56 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:29 Hi hajovonta :) 07:49:04 H4ns: what are you referring to? a practical thing is even more frustatring :) 07:49:44 hello yati, pnpuff ! 07:49:54 What looping construct do you prefer, DO or LOOP? LOOP looks very English and easy for me coming from Python, but it is a language of its own, and while DO looks a bit cryptic, I just have to remember one basic form of a DO loop. 07:50:05 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 07:50:24 yati: avoid do and do*, they're very hard to read. 07:50:47 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 07:50:47 okay, yeah that they are. 07:50:51 I prefer loop to do as well personally 07:51:13 yati: i recommend loop, you can write very sophisticated looping constructs with it with great readability 07:51:26 Yeah but its a freaking huge language in itself :) Hail the power of macros! 07:51:26 DOTIMES/DOLIST if you can :) 07:51:33 ^^ true that 07:51:36 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:51:49 yati: you can go pretty far with just a few simple loop keywords 07:51:52 DOLIST is exactly the same as Python's for in 07:51:55 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:52:10 *Quadrescence* decides to write DOSEQ 07:52:22 Quadrescence: I'd like to see a better library for high order functions ... 07:52:31 hmm tone that will work on strings as well? 07:52:35 *one 07:52:43 the one i will write will 07:52:55 zorkmoid, there are lots out there 07:53:06 Quadrescence: yeah, that is the problem .. :-) 07:53:08 hajovonta, yeah noticed. It is indeed very elegant. 07:53:50 well python's for in was not invented by python, loop has that too :) 07:53:57 zorkmoid, I have a hard time believing that with stuff like &REST arguments and requirement to use FUNCALL, functional programming will always remain awkward 07:54:05 I use DO occasionally 07:54:05 so do various other languages 07:54:13 I think that loop is useful in idiomatic cases, but I would avoid it for complex loops that it does not handle elegantly. 07:54:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:54:47 Quad: Are you missing a comma? 07:54:50 Zhivago: if you end up having to also use tagbody as part of it, I think that I agree 07:54:51 Quadrescence: mm.. i don't mind those cases 07:55:18 Quadrescence: ... reader macro ... ;-) 07:55:40 Zhivago, yes I am 07:55:59 phadthai, yeah, I know. Languages have silently borrowed so much from Lisp. Like the last eval'd form in a bigger form is the value the latter evals to. This is fundamental in functional languages like Scala, at least. 07:56:14 I wouldn't be so quick to think Python got its for-in from Lisp. 07:57:07 who cares... language designers included what they thought neccessary 07:57:46 ^^ correct. 07:58:04 but it is always interesting to see that languages evolve toward lisp over time 07:58:29 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.111.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:58:40 And learning lessons from the past is a good thing, not bad. See how nice a language Go is when it mixes the terseness of C and high-level features of Python to give a solid competition to C++ 07:59:11 yakov [~yakov@195.54.148.98] has joined #lisp 07:59:50 hajovonta: maybe all you need to know to write any other language is contained in lisp itself... 08:01:10 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:01:13 yati: i looked at go recently, seemd quite ... ugly actualy 08:03:47 zorkmoid, it is terse, does what it's meant to do pretty well and provides a fresh possible solution to concurrency. For prettiness, import python! 08:04:24 yati: i have yet to see what it provides over erlang when it comes to concurrency, and neither go, erlang or pythong are "pretty" 08:04:35 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.35.133.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:05:21 erlang is definitely not pretty, but I do find Python pretty, probably because I came to Python after C++/Java/C#. But yeah prettiness is subjective. 08:05:54 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:07 I came from lisp to ... lisp :-) 08:06:29 Ha :) 08:06:30 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:02 *rszeno* scala had a good start now is messed, like java 08:07:34 zorkmoid, I want to explore Clojure's STM. In the Lisp in Summer contest, Clojure leads all other dialects. 08:07:47 "leads"? 08:08:06 zorkmoid, as in the number of people who're using it to participate 08:08:11 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 08:08:32 no idea what that means ... don't know what lisp in summer contest is .. clojure isn't a very good lisp to begin with 08:08:33 then php must be great, :) 08:08:48 zorkmoid, http://lispinsummerprojects.org/stats 08:08:50 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:09:17 yay 2% arc!11 08:09:47 yati: ok ... and that menas exactly what? 08:09:55 zorkmoid, I have no idea about Clojure, but friends said I should start with Common Lisp, and that's what I'm doing. I'll be learning and hopefully building something cool this summer :) 08:10:02 zorkmoid: it means that clojure is popular 08:10:04 zorkmoid, means it is popular. 08:10:07 ok 08:10:13 and is worth a shot 08:10:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.7] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 08:10:38 yati: that it does not mean 08:10:53 interesting, 22 and 33 years old 08:11:01 H4ns, it does, for me, for I don't know what's in store! 08:11:07 rszeno: and early forties. strikes me, too. 08:11:28 H4ns, CL is the first Lisp I'm learning. 08:11:29 yati: it does not mean that it is worth your shot, though :D 08:11:32 there is 70, also 08:12:09 correction, 74, probably one only 08:13:05 H4ns, I was learning functional programming in Scala. I *loved* the idea of making multicore parallelism easy by using immutable data-structures. And I hear Clojure is more functional than it is not. 08:13:23 Otherwise, I have only imperative experience :\ 08:14:17 yati: we were coming from the participant number in the lispinsummerprojects.org contest 08:14:35 yup 08:14:52 yati: if you need parallelism, clojure in fact has some things to offer out of the box that are neat. 08:14:58 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:15:15 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:15:17 yeah this STM thing I really want to check out. 08:15:25 yati: there is no logical connection between what is popular and what is worth trying; just to mention BASIC was very popular at a certain time in history 08:15:47 BASIC was worth trying when the only alternative was assembler 08:16:02 that is not really true ... 08:16:04 hajovonta, so how do you figure out what is worth trying? 08:16:14 you had lots of nice languages ... 08:16:28 basic was totally worth trying for the fact that it was available when you switched on the computer. 08:16:29 Quadrescence: except that looking a bit, often there was fortran or forth :) 08:16:34 MIDAS was amazing to work with .. higher level than C, low as machine code.. 08:16:36 If you don't use something for yourselves, how can you decide what is good and what is bad? 08:16:45 and fortran .. algol 08:16:46 ...there was FORTRAN 08:17:16 i posit that getting an implementation of compilers or interpreters for many of those languages would be difficult for a new guy on an apple II 08:17:21 ...now called Fortran 08:17:33 yati: anything that catches your attention is worth trying. but maybe you have more options to consider, e.g. what language provides you more job opportunities or such 08:17:43 yes I admit myself that I already used 6502 a lot before discovering a forth implementation for it back then 08:17:50 nilsi [~nilsi@95.209.36.121.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 08:18:45 hajovonta, correct. besides popularity, there are other parameters as well. But if something is gaining prominence in this age, there is likely something good about it than not. 08:18:58 And trying doesn't hurt :) 08:18:58 people think java is worth trying because there are a lot of job opportunities; and the majority of them becomes java code monkey. 08:19:15 agreed :) 08:19:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:31 yati, expect you waste some time trying, :) 08:19:52 wow, maybe would be interesting to look how is built a self hosting fortran compiler 08:20:16 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:19 pnpuff, i don't think you find one 08:20:27 :-) 08:20:29 rszeno, I'm glad to waste my time this way. Been doing that all along (and admit it, you too have) :) 08:20:30 rszeno: that is not a time wasted. i'd say time is wasted when you drink alcohol :) 08:21:19 does it count if you observe the balmer's peak strictly 08:21:21 heh 08:21:34 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:55 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:22:00 (http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ballmer_peak.png) 08:22:23 haha 08:22:47 lol 08:23:53 phadthai, http://i.imgur.com/PLRf2DF.jpg 08:23:57 why can't you link to the xkcd page, not the image directly? i want to read the tooltip 08:24:30 if you can believe it, all that produced a real program! 08:24:38 heh 08:24:39 (well, more than that) 08:25:35 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:25:49 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:25:52 I don't know how people can think and ideate after/while drinking. Coffee works sometimes for me, but never alcohol :\ 08:26:14 People claim to drink beer as they code. 08:26:28 did you ever need to solve a problem when you are stressed? 08:26:35 yeah 08:26:43 and that's when I resort to coffee 08:26:44 how fast? 08:26:53 like overnight fast 08:27:08 I hate red bull's taste 08:27:20 sometime drink relax, :) 08:27:44 yati, to be honest, it's not the alcohol, it's the social aspect that comes with it 08:27:45 of course abuse is something else, :) 08:28:03 well it's maybe the alcohol a little bit to loosen up 08:28:33 Quadrescence, point. alcohol does make you more open to people. 08:28:43 are you guys drunk? this is #lisp 08:29:04 never ever does alcohol make anyone "a better coder" 08:29:06 and #lispcaffe is somewhere ----> that way 08:29:15 ah, yeah. sorry jdz 08:29:39 you folks could open up a #lispbeer for that discussion 08:29:49 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:29:50 haha, we lisp this is #know :) 08:29:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:56 H4ns, :)) 08:34:13 there is the Committee for Real Ale and Common Lisp 08:34:50 what is Real Ale ? 08:34:56 I've been hoping they might have a meeting sometime... ever... 08:35:05 better than fake ale 08:36:19 sorry to bring this up. we got here from something like how is time wasted 08:37:26 i spend more then 50% of my life learning languages, is a waste of time, trust me 08:37:59 finaly you fit with one or two of them 08:38:18 sure, but you will have a firm ground of choice :) 08:38:56 rszeno, then you are not learning it properly. A new language will teach you how to look at a problem from a different perspective. And that's what is important :) 08:38:57 yes, but new things could be done in this time 08:38:59 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 08:39:32 I don't think I'll ever be using CL at work. But it already has started paying off. I now abstract whenever I can. 08:39:38 rszeno: sorry... seems Forth was self-hosted 08:39:39 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-204-30.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:39:47 is anyone bored enough to want to take over the planet lisp to twitter gateway? it needs some care to make it work with the twitter api v1.1 (still uses 1.0). code here: https://github.com/hanshuebner/planetwit/blob/master/planetwit.lisp 08:40:52 maybe 08:40:57 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 08:41:16 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 08:41:33 fe[nl]ix: "maybe"? i'm more looking for a pull request. 08:42:16 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:43:48 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:22 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 08:50:01 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:32 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 08:50:52 I gather it doesn't work now ? 08:51:38 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:51:55 I've found that since APL's features are easily added to Lisp but not vice-versa, Lisp is better as a general purpose programming language. But this makes sense? 08:53:35 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Client Quit] 08:54:45 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:06 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:55:21 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:55:47 maybe I think yes, since there are few Lisp interpreters written in APL (and surely is simpler write a Lisp interpreter in C, Java or Mathematica)... but maybe this is not true... so I'm looking for different opinions. 08:56:50 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 08:57:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:57:31 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:57:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:58:10 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:50 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 09:00:12 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:00:58 fe[nl]ix: yes: The Twitter REST API v1 is no longer active 09:01:57 galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has joined #lisp 09:04:15 Vicfred [~anon@187.206.97.129] has joined #lisp 09:04:18 -!- Vicfred [~anon@187.206.97.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:15 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:08:05 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.7] has joined #lisp 09:12:08 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 protist [~protist@190.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:14:58 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:49 good day everyone 09:16:02 hi Blkt 09:16:14 I think CL+J maybe is a not proper name, because can be misinterpreted... 09:16:17 :) 09:16:31 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:18:35 hi Blkt 09:18:55 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Quit: iqool] 09:19:32 H4ns: I'll be über-busy for the next 10 days 09:19:53 unless somebody else takes it on, I may work on it after that 09:19:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-31-128.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:59 hi fe[nl]ix 09:20:25 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-31-128.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:06 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:23:40 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:24:57 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 09:25:06 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:25:25 fe[nl]ix: ok. 09:25:35 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:00 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest1344 09:26:15 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:27:00 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 09:27:00 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 09:27:00 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 09:27:23 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 09:27:39 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Client Quit] 09:27:45 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:30:31 -!- Guest1344 [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:31:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:45 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 09:33:44 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:39 ehu [~Erik@109.35.133.239] has joined #lisp 09:36:24 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:37:47 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:38:28 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:38:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:41:15 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:44:32 wow, now I get T from: (my-equal (f #'f) (and (my-evalquote '(%LAMBDA (X) (CONS (CONS '(CONS X NIL) (CONS (CONS '(CONS X NIL) NIL) NIL)) NIL)) '(%LAMBDA (X) (CONS (CONS '(CONS X NIL) (CONS (CONS '(CONS X NIL) NIL) NIL)) NIL)))(f 'x))) (-: 09:45:26 ...but I've still to define "and"... 09:46:49 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:47:00 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 09:47:06 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:47:26 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@248.145-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 09:47:26 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@248.145-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 09:47:26 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 09:47:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@87.69.198.30] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:49:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:51:16 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:05 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:35 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 09:54:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:21 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:55:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:42 john-mcaleely [~jhm@cpc7-nmal19-2-0-cust88.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:11 oudeis [~oudeis@87.69.198.30] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 10:06:40 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.92.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:09:42 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:09:59 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 10:11:19 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:12:13 namtsui` [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:53 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:24 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:13:24 -!- namtsui` [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:43 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:44 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:38 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 10:16:55 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-89-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:20:39 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.49.105] has joined #lisp 10:21:24 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@87.69.198.30] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:21:57 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:22:43 Hello everybody. 10:22:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:23:32 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:49 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 10:25:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.220] has joined #lisp 10:25:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.220] has quit [Changing host] 10:25:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:26:29 hello hitecnologys 10:26:48 Maybe I ask to many questions, but how efficient is CL reader? I'm just trying to store list of lists in postgresql database and the only way I found is to store list of strings which store CL lists. Am I doing things wrong? 10:28:13 hello pnpuff, how are you? 10:28:14 hitecnologys: "wrong" is a strong word, but if you think that this is the only way to store lists of lists in a relational database, it is certainly not "right" either 10:28:24 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 10:28:46 hitecnologys: reader performance highly depends on reader settings (various *read* vars), and generally I found it to be much slower then any binary or fixed length protocols (ie cl-store blobs) 10:28:51 hitecnologys: there are numerous ways to store lists in databases. you can make each cons cell into a database row to begin with. not that this would necessarily be a good idea. 10:28:51 hello hitecnologys 10:29:18 I would only use reader where human editing/readability is required, ie config file snippets or such 10:29:25 hitecnologys: postgres offers array column types that you could use to store your lists, if they're homogenous. 10:30:25 Okay, there is special type for multidimensional arrays, right? 10:30:57 what do you mean by "special" and "type", and where? in lisp? postgres? 10:31:06 hitecnologys: and there are other possibilities than relational databases. 10:31:06 hitecnologys: also watch out for ordering.. One of the most common bugs I fixed in legacy software, is people doing (create table text (id integer, content varchar(255))), then in 99% of the cases it will read text back in same order as inserted 10:31:07 Postgres. 10:31:32 hitecnologys: start reading the manual on array column types. 10:31:47 but in 1% of cases it will cross some page boundary, and return stuff shuffled, crashing the app.. Always use order by when you need to ensure ordering 10:32:08 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:28 and some custom ordering property (ie increasing seq number or such) 10:32:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:33:01 or use db provided arrays just as H4ns suggested 10:35:19 iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:35:24 H4ns: oh, wierd, last time I tried [][] it didn't work for me. Now everythng seems to be ok. Problem solved. 10:36:09 hajovonta: which possibilities? 10:40:02 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:22 zRecursive [~czsq888@221.237.93.199] has joined #lisp 10:44:13 -!- iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:44:50 iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:54:23 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:57 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:55:57 hitecnologys: i don't know if you have a task where you absolutely must use a relational database, i used AllegroCache with great result in one of my projects, and somebody mentioned another object database here in #lisp a few months ago 10:56:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:57:53 hajovonta: I'm just writing simple web library 10:58:18 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:00:41 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:57 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:03:51 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04:07 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:06:23 I'm fine,ynx hitecnologys .... but are you making a sound approximation of database query languages? 11:06:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 11:06:55 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@248.145-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 11:06:56 s/ynx/tnx 11:06:56 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@248.145-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 11:06:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:07:53 pnpuff: sound aproximation? I didn't really get what you mean. 11:08:40 hitecnologys: I was reading for curiosity this: www.dsi.unive.it/~cortesi/paperi/CL2012.pdf 11:10:10 pnpuff: looks interesting, I should read this 11:13:01 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 11:15:15 Jacky_ [~Jacky@42-106.dynamic.wireless.ntnu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 11:16:03 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:17:04 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 11:20:05 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:20:34 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:22:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:23:02 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 11:24:12 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@221.237.93.199] has left #lisp 11:26:27 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:32:32 attila_lendvai 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timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32:01 kisp [~kisp@91-66-231-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:08 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:34:13 I'm using CL+SSL and SB-BSD-SOCKETS, as a client (not a server), and I find that I need to listen for a response from the server, but I also need a timeout. What's the appropriate mechanism to use here? 14:35:17 -!- p_l is now known as p_l|sushi 14:35:19 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:35:39 nyef: there's trivial-timeout 14:36:34 paul0 [~paul0@arq53-50.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 14:36:34 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-132-132.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:26 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-aegnlimecxnkbppl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:55 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:38:08 nyef: I'd also imagine that if you set :timeout for socket-make-stream, that would cause cl+ssl to timeout as well 14:38:22 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:38:38 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 14:39:00 pnpuff [~J@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:39:52 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:00 -!- pnpuff [~J@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:04 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:24 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 14:40:25 trivial-timeout uses sb-ext:with-timeout, which is acknowledge to be unsafe for general use. 14:40:43 s/acknowledge/acknowledged/ 14:40:48 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:41:27 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:41:30 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:41:47 sb-sys:with-deadline maybe? 14:42:26 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:40 Oh, and the interaction with CL+SSL is important, as it operates in terms of the underlying file descriptor, not the stream. 14:42:45 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 14:42:48 Which would also likely trump with-deadline. 14:42:55 yeah, true 14:43:05 well, then maybe socket timeouts are the way to go, really 14:43:48 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-70-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:44:11 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.54.148.98] has left #lisp 14:44:30 or a blocking wait on a signal from another thread? with lparallel you could use pop-queue and have the other thread wake you up using push-queue, I guess 14:45:32 -!- p_l|sushi is now known as p_l 14:47:03 It looks as though the timeout option to socket-make-stream is implemented in terms of fd-streams, which doesn't help... 14:47:40 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:48:08 nyef: use iolib to set the socket timeout on the file descriptor 14:48:13 Hrm. 14:48:29 hi 14:49:30 Denommus: Hi 14:49:49 Denommus: I decided to suck it up and use slime instead of slimv 14:50:05 iglu: evil-mode? 14:50:10 SO_RCVTIMEO ? 14:50:14 yes 14:50:33 Denommus: nah vanilla emacs 14:50:47 iglu: great. You won't regret ;) 14:51:00 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:12 Hrm. Causes a read to return EAGAIN or EWOULDBLOCK, just as though the socket were nonblocking in the first place. 14:51:45 And that's sufficiently low-level that I'd need to look at how libssl works. 14:52:04 Denommus: it felt strange at first but after about half a day i'm already seeing benefits over slimv 14:52:23 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:35 Okay, thank you all for your suggestions, now I need to do some follow-up reading. (-: 14:52:44 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:53:11 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 14:53:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 14:53:48 keppy [~Luca@75-151-97-182-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:08 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 14:54:12 -!- lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:30 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@d83-183-123-71.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:23 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:45 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:27 BitPuffin [~quassel@d83-183-123-71.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:58:22 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 15:00:27 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:00:31 aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:00:39 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 15:00:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:01:43 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-230-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:06 Looks like I want a combination of a non-blocking socket (so that SSL_read() returns immediately) and select() with a timeout (ISTR that SBCL has a suitably-wrapped version of that somewhere). 15:02:08 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-140.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:07 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:04:18 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:04:18 nyef: sorry, to which project are you working currently? 15:04:27 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:47 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@80.178.144.12.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:04:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:05:03 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:24 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:05:48 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 15:07:58 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-140.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:31 pnpuff: Something for work, trying to talk to an APNs server. 15:08:38 *maxm* opines about testing that all your syscall related code works nicely with (sb-ext:gc), because stop-the-world causes EINTR returned from all of them. 15:08:39 And the protocol is mildly dreadful. 15:09:02 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:09:30 nyef: seems interesting even if sincerely I don't know the topic... :-( 15:10:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-254-247-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:10:47 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:10:59 nicdev` [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 15:12:00 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:12:54 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:01 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 15:16:15 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:17:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:18:25 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.35.133.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:19 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:23:32 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:25:18 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:26:38 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:17 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@d83-183-123-71.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:29:22 So if I want to run something in a file in the middle of a program, do I have to use eval? 15:29:55 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 15:30:04 it depends on the something. It's usually more fruitful to change what you want than to use eval. 15:30:26 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest25444 15:30:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:32:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:32:54 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 15:34:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:54 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:35:02 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:19 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:36:15 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:37:05 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:37:46 -!- Guest25444 is now known as PuercoPo`` 15:37:49 -!- PuercoPo`` is now known as PuercoPo` 15:38:03 oudeis [~oudeis@80.178.144.12.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:39:31 pkhuong: yeah I've read eval is not a good idea plus it evaluates in a null lexical environment so I have to use declare special 15:39:55 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@80.178.144.12.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:12 ehu [~Erik@109.37.201.199] has joined #lisp 15:40:43 There are ways around that, but... Yeah, anyone using EVAL in production code had better have a really good justification for when the code police arrive. 15:41:22 but I'm not sure as to how to structure my test suite differently 15:42:28 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop` 15:43:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:43:35 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:44:55 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:03 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:02 nyef: well it is just for the test suite, not for the code of the program 15:49:30 You can get away with more in a test suite, but EVAL still is rarely the right weapon for the job. 15:49:35 At least, not directly. 15:49:38 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:03 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:04 A technique that I'm somewhat a fan of is #.`( ... whatever ... ) 15:50:24 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:51:19 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:29 anyway eval at leat is useful to test is (= (f f) (eval (f f)) and (= (f f) (eval (eval ... (eval (f f)) ..))) 15:52:57 I sometimes avoid full-blown eval by expanding into code to store functions (rather than source) at load-time. As a bonus, all the usual static analysis happens at compile-time. 15:53:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:31 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:53:35 another question, I want to eval the test in the ` for every iteration of loop, not just return it, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how to do it. Any ideas? https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5823936 15:53:39 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:55:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 15:55:36 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:56:31 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:55 #.``? 15:57:33 -!- HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:57:46 imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:55 no and you are almost certainly doing it wrong 15:58:40 -!- imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:49 you test suite should make functions and you should just be calling those 15:58:52 "your" 15:59:19 the code that defines a test should expand into code that defines a function (and probably makes note of it as a test somewhere) 15:59:26 oticat` [~oticat@114-36-248-71.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:45 well I'm evaling the = part :) 16:01:45 -!- oticat` [~oticat@114-36-248-71.dynamic.hinet.net] has left #lisp 16:01:59 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05:27 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-242.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong, that is why I'm asking for pointers. 16:06:46 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:08:53 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:09:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:11:17 BitPuffin [~quassel@m90-129-12-238.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:11:22 So the idea is this. I'm taking http requests text files from gunicorn. An I want to be able to compare the plist my code constructs after processing that text-file against an expected request plist in another file. But because I can return extra, non important keys like :server-name that I don't want to check against I want to define different checks to check for specific keys in the resulting plist in comparison with my expected plist 16:13:05 So I want to be able to collect tests from files 16:13:16 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:14:44 so I get (let ((f '(%LAMBDA (X) (CONS (CONS '(CONS X NIL) (CONS (CONS '(CONS X NIL) NIL) NIL)) NIL)))) (my-equal (f f) (my-evalquote f (my-evalquote f (my-evalquote f f))))) => T 16:15:11 your lambda still doesn't use x 16:15:21 Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:15:54 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:17 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:16:35 PuercoPop`: Have you considered simply filtering your plist against a blacklist or a whitelist prior to comparison? 16:17:12 -!- paul0 [~paul0@arq53-50.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:17:56 lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 16:19:25 Bike: I get... (my-evalquote '(%lambda (x) x) '("I'm x")) => "I'm x" 16:20:06 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 16:21:49 -!- fenton2 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-32-98.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:17 that's a different lambda, where x appears unquoted. 16:24:49 josemanuel [~josemanue@132.205.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:26:19 ok Bike now I understand what you means... anyway: (my-evalquote '(%lambda (x) (cons x (quote x))) '((x ."I'm x"))) => ((X . "I'm x") . X) 16:26:22 nyef: Not at all. So you mean that I trime the keys I'm not interested it? 16:27:51 so if I use (quote x) inside a lambda expression which depends on x , rightly to x is not binded the value (if any) it has... 16:28:28 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:46 s/binded/bound/ 16:31:19 paul0 [~paul0@arq53-50.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 16:31:22 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:50 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-233-220-50.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:00 I'm writing a version of flet in which the function definitions may be pulled from the environment. I can do this using cltl2's define-declaration and declaration-information, however SBCL is the only implementation which (usefully) implements those. 16:33:37 It occurred to me that creating a dynamic binding around macroexpand-all might be a suitable way to emulate attaching information to the environment. It seems to work, even recursively, but I'm not confident it is a valid approach. https://gist.github.com/lmj/5824310 16:33:55 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-242.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:56 lmj`: symbol-macrolet is more common. 16:34:40 lmj`: to attach information around [form], expand into (symbol-macrolet ((my-stash data)) [form]), and macroexpand-1 my-stash as needed. 16:35:21 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:28 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:07 pkhuong: I was just thinking of the problems I had with variable-information and symbol-macrolets, but I can just expand it to see if my magic flag is there. 16:40:28 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:40:44 I think that should work, thanks 16:42:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:43:08 Bike: this is the results I get quoting and not quoting x: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685#3 16:43:21 ...what I have to do? 16:44:15 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 lmj`: if you're trying to serialise functions, with their lexical environment, common cold has SBCL-specific (only to manipulate the environment) stuff. It's old code and has some macroexpandion/load-time confusion, but the "interesting" part should be OK. 16:45:14 unfuck your interpreter? this is basically unreadable but it looks like x is somehow bound to %lambda? 16:47:32 pkhuong: Yes I looked through that before and liked it. At least for now I'm trying to be portable, however. 16:47:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@aftr-37-24-148-246.unity-media.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:44 I have portable closures via variable-information, though flets are not closed over. One must use tasklet instead of flet, same as deftask instead of defun. 16:50:17 (Or shadowing magic.) 16:51:21 hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:52:12 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:19 hajovonta [~user@540376E8.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 16:55:59 Bike: I get (let ((f '(%LAMBDA (X) (CONS (CONS (quote X) nil) (CONS (CONS (quote X) NIL) nil))))) (my-equal (f f) (and (f (quote x)) (f #'f) (my-evalquote f ( my-evalquote f f ))))) => T so f is able to reproduce itself. So, what is the problem ? 16:56:05 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 16:57:09 i don't know, i've lost my ability to comprehend you 16:57:57 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:18 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 -!- lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:05 lkjh__ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 16:59:10 I get simply a self reproducing S-expression... this is clear 17:00:59 The usocket API is somewhat inconvenient with the socket/stream separation. I suppose it wasn't wrapped in a gray stream for performance. It wouldn't be hard to wrap the existing usocket, I guess. 17:01:56 -!- paul0 [~paul0@arq53-50.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:27 paul0 [~paul0@arq53-50.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 17:03:07 protist_ [~protist@126.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 17:03:41 -!- john-mcaleely [~jhm@nat/canonical/x-bxodnkxzlwljdzxj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:08 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[wrkwrkwrk] 17:04:53 john-mcaleely [~jhm@nat/canonical/x-oycxctkvmdkbpeoq] has joined #lisp 17:05:02 -!- protist [~protist@190.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05:26 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 17:06:41 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-6-129.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:39 -!- lkjh__ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:02 ...so maybe f is able to self-refernce / self-reproduce. 17:08:17 *self-reference 17:08:41 paul0_ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 17:08:53 -!- paul0 [~paul0@arq53-50.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:25 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:11:06 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.148.145] has joined #lisp 17:11:53 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:01 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:12 -!- paul0_ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:13:30 paul0_ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 17:16:00 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:26 paul0__ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 17:17:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:54 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:21:06 -!- paul0_ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22:21 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-gazegyqmscaiqkli] has joined #lisp 17:28:15 -!- PuercoPop` [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:32:24 -!- paul0__ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:08 I simply do: (setf (symbol-function 'f) (lambda (x)(CONS (CONS 'X NIL) (CONS (CONS 'X NIL) NIL)))) and (setf f (lambda (x)(CONS (CONS 'X NIL) (CONS (CONS 'X NIL) NIL)))) and I get (f f) => ((X) (X)) 17:33:40 you're still not using the x parameter, come on 17:34:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:35:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-191-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:36:19 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-6-129.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:38:30 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:39:41 Bike: and now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685#4 ? 17:40:33 exactly what you'd expect. 17:41:15 paul0__ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has joined #lisp 17:42:30 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 17:43:26 -!- john-mcaleely [~jhm@nat/canonical/x-oycxctkvmdkbpeoq] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:44:05 -!- lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-233-220-50.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:44:13 mattrepl [~mattrepl@ssid-mason-secure-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.37.201.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:37 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:50 ehu [~Erik@109.37.201.199] has joined #lisp 17:47:16 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:48:06 -!- paul0__ [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:50:36 Luke [~lhoersten@76.74.30.50] has joined #lisp 17:50:53 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.37.201.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:23 -!- pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-4-143.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:57 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m90-129-12-238.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:25 BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-184-138-101.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:53:23 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:42 (subseq (last (split-string "stuff" "\\.")) 0 1)) ;; returns "stuff" instead of "s". can anyone see why? 17:55:56 oh i see... a list of 1 17:55:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:02 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:57:06 There is some common naming-scheme/idiom for naming a generic that has no keyword arguments where the generic is supposed to be called from a DEFUN that does have keyword arguments. can someone refresh me on that naming scheme? 17:57:23 (DEFUN FOO (A &KEY B C) (FOO-GENERIC A B C)) 17:57:54 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:59:01 nmeum [~nmeum@141.101.32.125] has joined #lisp 17:59:24 Hmm, I haven't seen that much. 17:59:30 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-184-138-101.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:32 *Xach* might be looking in the wrong places 17:59:33 patrickwonders: dunno of a common scheme.. I used foo* 17:59:36 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:59:59 -!- youlysses is now known as youlysses_away 18:00:42 Hmmm I asked some question a few months ago (and I can't recall exactly what) and someone recommended an approach like above, but the name they used for FOO-GENERIC. made a whole bunch of other function names I'd seen in the past in stack traces and such make sense. 18:00:58 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:09 *patrickwonders* scratches head 18:01:49 adeht: I had used '%FOO' before rather than 'FOO*' to emphasize that it probably shouldn't be called directly but hmmm... 18:02:07 It makes sense, but I haven't seen it enough to remember if there's a common naming style or convention. 18:02:31 patrickwonders: Might depend on the context. Ive done something similar for extensible mathematics stuff, where, say (defun + (&rest) ) was implemented by reducing on (defgeneric binary-+ (a b) ). 18:03:06 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-230-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:03:15 patrickwonders: well, I use %foo for C functions or private defstruct constructors.. but generic functions have more than one user.. a caller and a method added 18:03:17 patrickwonders: I used to use foo* for some my own implementations of built-in functions with benifits (like destructuring dolist). 18:03:17 *adder 18:04:20 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:23 s/benifits/benefits/ 18:05:30 -!- youlysses_away [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:06:33 Is it safe to replace (setf thing (substitute foo bar thing)) with (nsubstitute foo bar thing)? 18:06:45 hitecnologys: no 18:07:17 adeht: nsubstitute may corrupt sequence? 18:07:25 minion tell me about logs 18:07:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.148.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:29 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:33 minion: tell me about logs 18:07:33 patrickwonders: have a look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 18:07:36 hitecnologys: yes, it is the destructive version of substitute 18:08:40 -!- Luke [~lhoersten@76.74.30.50] has left #lisp 18:09:08 adeht: I thought it only does setf. What for are destructive functions if they destroy things? To help gc by destroying what we really don't need? 18:09:20 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:37 hitecnologys: no, things that do setf usually are suffixed with F.. those that are prefixed with N may have a chance at reducing consing (the N is for Nonconsing) 18:10:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:11:14 So, they just save some resources by doing less job, right? 18:11:47 hitecnologys: but like their nondestructive counterparts, you should use their return value rather than assume the structure you pass to them is modified in place 18:13:07 I see, thanks for explanation. 18:14:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.0.64] has joined #lisp 18:15:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.0.64] has quit [Changing host] 18:15:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:17:24 BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-184-138-101.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:21:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-241.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:48 Luke [~lhoersten@76.74.30.50] has joined #lisp 18:22:01 this is what I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685#5 , I have no need to evaluate x in lambda expression: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137685#6 , so (quote x) is good 18:26:29 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:01 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:17 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:46 -!- protist_ [~protist@126.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:53 pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:33:24 ASau` [~user@p5797F7E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:38 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:42 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E1C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:37:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:29 sdemarre [~serge@247.174-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:42:06 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:45:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:45:45 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: best short-url ever. ] 18:45:56 ELLIOTTCABLE [~elliottca@ell.io] has joined #lisp 18:48:03 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:13 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has left #lisp 18:51:37 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51:37 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:37 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 18:52:37 PuercoPop` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:56:07 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~elliottca@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:08 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:56:15 ELLIOTTCABLE [~elliottca@ell.io] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 Good evening. 18:57:08 hello kami` 18:57:10 Is it possible to load a 32 bit ELF shared lib with a 64 bit sbcl? 18:57:19 -!- kami` is now known as kami 18:57:28 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:57:34 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:52 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:58:57 kami: it is possible but you should to have multilib to load 32-bit libraries on 64-bit system anyway 19:02:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:55 I'm on ubuntu and have ia32-libs installed 19:04:10 hitecnologys: do I need more than that? 19:04:25 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.108] has joined #lisp 19:04:49 kami: nope, it should work with this configuration 19:05:10 kami: however, I tested it on gentoo so I can't be sure 19:05:17 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:05:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:06 Hmm. Loading the oracle-xe client lib fails with CFFI:LOAD-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-ERROR, wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 19:06:09 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 19:07:48 Hm, weird. 19:07:59 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.108] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:00 does lisp have arrows like haskell's (&&&) function? 19:08:11 Luke: n 19:08:12 o 19:08:15 thanks 19:12:00 kami: did you compile this library by yourself or just downloaded it from the internets? 19:12:35 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:13:00 hitecnologys: it is installed following sth like this: http://justalittlebrain.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/how-to-install-oracle-xe-in-ubuntu-64-bit/ 19:13:41 the DB server which is also i386 works 19:13:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:13:52 I can use sqlplus to connect etc. 19:14:58 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:11 and does it work outside sbcl and cffi? 19:15:42 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 hitecnologys: the server libs obviously work, as the DB server is up and running 19:16:27 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:32 I doubt that the any of the server components uses this lib, as it is ... well, the *client* lib. 19:18:13 Hm, we probably need help of more experienced users here, I ran out of ideas 19:19:22 hitecnologys: thank you for your help. 19:20:21 kami: you're welcome but I doubt that anything I said will help 19:20:28 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845466952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-24-14.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:53 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 19:23:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:12 hitecnologys: the noble intention already deserves gratitude :) 19:29:51 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:53 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:31:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:59 john-mcaleely [~jhm@cpc7-nmal19-2-0-cust88.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:34 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 Is there a way to define types via postmodern or I should use raw SQL syntax? 19:36:55 (I mean CREATE TYPE lalala AS stuff) 19:37:10 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m83-184-138-101.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:30 BitPuffin [~quassel@m90-129-141-97.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:39:11 hitecnologys: as I don't use postmodern directly, I'm not an expert. 19:39:37 But looking into the tests, I see (execute (:create-table test-data ((a :type integer :primary-key t) (b :type real) 19:39:50 So, the answer is probably yes. 19:40:32 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-4-143.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:40:47 this was from postmodern/tests.lisp 19:40:49 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@ssid-mason-secure-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:41:53 Real and integer are built-in types. 19:42:25 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:08 Ah, screw everything, storing numbers in strings is not that bad idea. 19:44:18 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:24 hitecnologys: sorry, I misunderstood. 19:45:11 *kami* cannot read 19:47:16 hitecnologys: enums seem to be supported with 'create type .. as enum...' 19:47:58 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:47 kami: yeah, I know I can use raw SQL but now I just stop at string and then I'll fix it. 19:48:57 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54:16 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:59:08 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 19:59:15 -!- saeftl [~invisible@213.95.11.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:05:56 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@247.174-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:31 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-gazegyqmscaiqkli] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:13:15 hidihoo8 [8265d52a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.101.213.42] has joined #lisp 20:14:20 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:14:32 -!- hidihoo8 [8265d52a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.101.213.42] has quit [] 20:14:36 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:15:37 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:54 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 20:16:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:16:49 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:23 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-18-22.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:50 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-24-14.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:59 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:51 what's the proper way ona list to change an nth value? 20:28:01 '(1 2 3) and I want to set the 2 equal to a 9 20:28:20 ahungry: there's no proper way to modify a literal list. 20:28:35 Try to modify the fresh list returned by (list 1 2 3) for example. 20:28:57 clhs nth 20:28:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_nth.htm 20:29:00 sdemarre [~serge@247.174-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:29:03 So I should convert to an array or hash? 20:29:06 Notice the qualifier of NTH: "Accessor". 20:29:09 err vector 20:29:14 It means you can use (setf nth). 20:29:41 This way: (let ((mutable-list (list 1 2 3))) (setf (nth 1 mutable-list) 42) mutable-list) --> (1 42 3) 20:29:59 Notice that (setf nth) is as O(n) as nth. 20:30:19 thanks pjb 20:30:34 So indeed, if you have a lot of such setting to do, it's better to coerce to a vector, even if in the end you coerce back to a list. 20:30:49 (or you can just work with vectors). 20:31:32 if the index is a small constant, it may be clearer to use, say, (setf (second list) 42) 20:31:35 hitecnologys: yes. The first programming language I learned, we did that. Store datastructures into strings. 20:32:04 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-70-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:12 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-4-86.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:33:08 hitecnologys: quite funny. 20:33:16 Would the best method to merge two sets of data like '(nil nil 3) '(1 2 nil) => '(1 2 3) be to iterate over each element and assign slotwise if the value is non nil? 20:33:30 or can the merge functino accomplish it with a proper predicate? 20:33:47 ahungry: if they're sets, (union '(nil nil 3) '(1 2 nil)) --> (2 1 nil nil 3) is a set. 20:33:51 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-59-72.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:34:08 (mapcar (lambda (x y) (or x y)) '(nil nil 3) '(1 2 nil))? 20:34:14 in this case, each nth slot corresponds to something used later in the program, but I want to combine two of the lists, so it has to remain a 3 item one in the same order 20:34:17 I'm thinking "MAPCAR #'SOME", myself. 20:34:25 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-845466952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:31 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 20:34:36 thanks guys 20:34:36 nyef: yes, some but then you need some curry too. 20:34:40 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:34:42 pjb: what was your first language? (programming one of course) 20:34:43 or compose. 20:34:44 Mmm... Curry... 20:34:51 hitecnologys: L.S.E. :-) 20:34:52 Damnit, now I'm hungry. 20:34:54 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:17 hitecnologys: http://nasium-lse.ogamita.com/ 20:35:23 -!- hajovonta [~user@540376E8.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:13 pjb: sounds cool, mine was just simple plain C++ 20:36:21 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:36:51 ah, these nice old days 20:41:11 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:52 -!- PuercoPop` [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:56 -!- Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:04 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 20:45:10 tseno [~junis@92-247-203-66.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:46:29 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:46:31 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:48:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:49:15 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:51:38 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 20:51:53 So, has anyone ever looked at doing a Lisp AllegroGraph client? 20:54:47 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:54:52 gendl: Franz, I assume. 20:55:22 pkhuong: Franz made an Allegro one which is released only as a fasl 20:55:52 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:50 the possibility was mentioned to me of doing an open-source Lisp one, more or less a translation of the Python one (which is already open-source under Eclipse license) 20:57:11 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:36 from glancing through it, it looks like mainly it needs an http client (portableaserve client or drakma) and a json library 21:00:00 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:33 and maybe an RDF library (Wilbur?) 21:01:14 -!- Luke [~lhoersten@76.74.30.50] has left #lisp 21:01:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:01:58 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has joined #lisp 21:10:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.0.64] has joined #lisp 21:12:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.0.64] has quit [Changing host] 21:12:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:13:16 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:17 gendl: I presume that most Agraph users use Allegro too 21:14:08 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:14:11 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m90-129-141-97.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:32 I have some customers who are developing something with Agraph and Allegro (and Genworks GDL) but they want to collaborate with some other universities who don't have budget or willingness to pay money for software 21:14:58 but they are hoping to have a way for the collaborators to stay in the Lisp camp somehow 21:15:25 -!- sdemarre [~serge@247.174-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:40 I guess they can try to squeeze Franz' allegro graph client into Allegro Express (within its heap limit) 21:15:57 but it would really be nice in due course to have a real open-source Lisp client for agraph 21:16:23 even the free agraph is quite powerful, and it would be nice not to have to resort to Python or some such, in order to use it 21:16:44 anyway i guess this is more Franz problem than a problem for this chatroom. 21:16:54 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:04 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:17:40 BitPuffin [~quassel@m80-170-68-79.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:18:36 it looks like a fun exercise to put together but it's too tangential to our business for my company to take it on alone 21:19:24 so just thought i'd make a bit of noise here, on the off-chance anyone else has any interest... 21:25:43 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@95.209.36.121.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:26:09 namtsui` [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:59 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:27:28 -!- namtsui` [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:43 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.51.231.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:30:59 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:29 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:21 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 21:38:01 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-138.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 gendl: I always though it is ironical that in presence of really free agraph clients for many languages, the lisp client requires you to pay for CL implementation 21:44:16 a bit sad 21:45:06 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:46:11 the Franz logic is understandable 21:46:11 antonv_: CLispers already have a CL implementation ;-) 21:46:19 Indeed. 21:46:32 Let's write other killer lisp apps. 21:46:49 pjb: your right 21:46:54 lets do it 21:46:58 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:49:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:53:14 -!- rk[wrkwrkwrk] is now known as ryankarason 21:55:40 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:57:00 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 21:57:24 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 21:58:29 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:14 -!- iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:23 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:05 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:04:20 mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:23 BitPuffin_ [~quassel@m83-182-139-207.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:11:02 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m80-170-68-79.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:16:46 by the way, Genworks just became a proud sponsor for LispNYC's Lisp in Summer Projects contest 22:17:27 we'd like to encourage submitters to consider making applications using Gendl (quicklisp :gendl, http://github.com/genworks/gendl ) 22:17:53 Updated manual has been coming together: https://github.com/genworks/gendl/blob/feature/book/documentation/tutorial/pdf/tutorial.pdf?raw=true 22:18:31 and we would like to offer a certain amount of free tech support to anyone coing a LiSP submission which is substantially based on Gendl 22:18:41 going -> doing 22:19:03 coing -> doing (blasted auto-correct! didn't help me the first time!) 22:19:47 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-128-138-170.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:19:54 i guess "coing" could have been a typo for either "coding" or "doing" 22:20:20 so what's genworks do, exactly? 22:21:17 Gendl is an AGPL-licensed Generative Programming and Knowledge Based Engineering framework, building on concepts dating back to the 1980s. It allows for high-level declarative, object-oriented problem solving and application development, including but not limited to the ability to generate and manipulate 3D geometry. To solve a problem in Gendl, you formulate it using the "define-object" operator, which allows you to specify inputs, outputs 22:21:17 (computed slots), and child objects, which then gives the ability to generate a "tree" of objects, useful for decomposing complexity. 22:21:59 (see http://github.com/genworks/gendl for the open-source project, http://genworks.com for commercial product -- demos missing at the moment) 22:22:00 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 22:22:07 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:13 and this chat thread can continue in #gendl if anyone is interested 22:22:26 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:24:01 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:07 NihilistDandy [~textual@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:13 mikecsh [~mikecsh@host-92-20-21-192.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:21 -!- NihilistDandy [~textual@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:10 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:45 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:33 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:31:03 -!- tseno [~junis@92-247-203-66.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:10 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:11 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.78.41] has joined #lisp 22:36:58 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@host-92-20-21-192.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 22:38:42 gendl: regarding squeezing in AGraph client into Allegro Express... it's the story of a compile loop, compile loop, till everything gets compiled... >_> 22:39:09 but AGraph client is already compiled 22:39:09 just remember to not make a mistake and try loading AGraph *into* the image 22:39:29 (that is, the whole database) 22:39:41 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:40:23 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814629.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:35 ah, right, it was shipped as compiled fasl 22:40:39 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 22:41:01 (but the compile-restart-loop fits in general when you want to keep inside the heap limit) 22:41:32 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:35 right. 22:41:55 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-24.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 22:41:59 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-24.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 22:42:00 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 22:43:18 Good night everybody! 22:43:23 hitecnologys: 'night 22:43:26 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.49.105] has quit [Quit: zzz] 22:46:54 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:55:35 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:53 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:06 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 23:08:25 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 23:08:43 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.78.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:07 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has left #lisp 23:12:14 -!- john-mcaleely [~jhm@cpc7-nmal19-2-0-cust88.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:13:16 I have read Gendl docs, the closest analogy I think is a spreadshit 23:13:23 spreadsheet 23:14:11 you define objects with properties, and property values are expressions possibly referring properties other objects 23:14:27 when you change "input" properties, whole graph is recomputed 23:14:38 it's like spreadsheet, 23:14:46 but the output may also be graphics 23:14:48 jimrthy [~james@cpe-70-112-206-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:02 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:31 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18:39 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:05 pierpa` [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:20:20 BamBam_ [6cfa8529@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.250.133.41] has joined #lisp 23:20:27 Is debugging a large part of what software engineers do daily? 23:20:51 BamBam_: why do you ask? 23:20:54 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 23:21:04 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.96.31] has joined #lisp 23:21:27 antonv_: Someone told me that is basically what "programmers do all day" 23:21:48 BamBam_: probaly yes, as on the #debugging channel 23:21:59 asK 23:22:36 <|3b|> well, you could call "the program not existing" a bug, and call fixing that 'debugging' :p 23:22:57 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.96.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:12 that would be bug oriented programming 23:23:29 BOP 23:23:47 <|3b|> at a lot of places, what "programmers do all day" is more "go to meetings" than programming or debugging though :p 23:24:38 |3b|: this is also a kind of debugging. No meeting - a bug. Fixing it by meeting 23:25:13 -!- pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:20 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.43.34] has joined #lisp 23:26:23 i personally play Galcon most of the day 23:27:04 -!- b1101 [~b@108.61.50.108] has quit [Quit: b1101] 23:27:25 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.96.31] has joined #lisp 23:27:58 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:28:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:17 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 23:32:23 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:16 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:4de5:2f17:e042:1ee1] has joined #lisp 23:40:23 -!- BamBam_ [6cfa8529@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.250.133.41] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:43:33 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.243] has joined #lisp 23:50:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:51:57 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 23:52:22 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:44 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:54:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:47 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp